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jsumadchat
02-18-2014, 11:14 PM
at what point does the thought shift from acquiring another potential PG, or moving our current PG, to just full-on attempting to lock him up?

another big game, and another big performance, beginning at a point where it was starting to get stagnant. as much as we can agree that a player like Jeff Teague has 'potential', or the prospects of acquiring a Rajon Rondo are in the cards, what makes them an upgrade over Kyle?

yes, he may not be what most consider an elite level PG, but with the current personnel and the clear direction that the PLAYERS are going in, why not lock him up and have him as a key part of the core moving forward? i know it's been talked about, but FIT and CHEMISTRY are two things that are in no way quantified. regardless of the talent level on this team, they certainly have fit and chemistry.

they might only be one or two tweaks away from really being able to contend in the coming years, especially considering Ross and Valanciunas are only sophomores. but this isn't a bad spot to be in.

My biggest fear is that there are MAJOR question marks surrounding the two PGs we're currently linked in rumours to. no one knows whether Rondo's knee will hold up. D-Rose was back for less than 10 games and is gone for another year, who knows what can happen to rondo. not only that, but if we have him for one year (next season) and have to deal with possibly extending him, will that be worth it? he will surely demand more than Kyle, EASILY approaching a max contract, and no one even knows what he might bring to our team.

as much as i've enjoyed Teague's progression in terms of playmaking and scoring, he is an ATROCIOUS 3pt shooter and defensively he isn't great. I just personally don't see the ceiling as high for him as others predict. his mid-range jumper is good, he can get to the basket at will, he's great at the line, but again, he can be a liability on defence.

so where does that leave Kyle? in terms of conventional talent, he has a moderate, more than adequate level of it. he is capable of doing what is needed of him to a high degree and again, his fit with our current squad is undeniable. i personally have no problem with him coming back for a 4 yr deal in the ballpark of 11-12 mill, with the contract being incentive-laden. he'll have no choice but to perform if he wants to maximize his value and make all of his dollars. and he can continue to progress with the team, especially as a guy right in the middle of his prime.

as a DIEHARD longtime fan, we've never had two guys that had legitimate shots at being all-stars. we had that this year and can have that moving forward. what do you guys think? does it make sense to attempt to lock him up, or look for greener pastures? are you guys convinced that we should go all-in for him?

koreancabbage
02-18-2014, 11:53 PM
my only concern is that we need some stability at the PG position and we haven't had the PG locked down in years. Every year: controversy. Lowry and GVZ, no controversy. I wish it stayed that way with Calderon but Casey couldn't make up his mind and gave Calderon too much run when you have a ferrari in the garage.

With Lowry starting the season with no clear competition (can't believe some of you guys were behind Stone and Buycks - they really really suck - and Augustine is now ripping it up in Chicago, so the potential was there) GVZ got traded into the situation.

I am down with holding onto Lowry with a 4-5 year contract to get some stability here. and GVZ for the same time and keep the tandem. Nothing more than $12M between the two of them please, though. so Lowry 8 and GVZ 3 (i wish, which is his QO) ideally.

Then we go hunting for the starting quality PF. I don't want to waste Lowry's prime, or Derozan's growth into his prime with some teenage or rookie PF that can grow into the future. PP is nice but he's a bench 6th man. Amir - same thing. We should go all in for Love if we can though, he's someone thats worth the max and more. Amir and PP is just keeping that PF spot warm for that next piece to make the Raptors a bonafide contender.

but having Lowry and GVZ locked in at around $12M per (combined) for the next 4-5 years is key

Heediot
02-19-2014, 08:59 AM
Vasquez sucks. The rules nowadays are catered to guys that can handle the rock. PG is the easiest position to fill and you can get a decent backup at the vet minimum. I wouldn't re-sign him.

pebloemer
02-19-2014, 09:04 AM
I'm all for locking Lowry up, but I don't think it will happen anytime soon. The CBA rules for extensions aren't any incentive to get Lowry to the negotiating table. I don't understand them fully to list the peculiarities of the extension rules, but here is a snippet:


Veteran extensions are limited to four seasons, including the seasons remaining on the current contract. Even if the extension is signed in late June, the current season counts as one full season toward the total. For example, a contract with two seasons remaining may be extended for up to two additional seasons. However, an extension signed in conjunction with an Extend-and-Trade transaction (see question number 93) is limited to three seasons, including the seasons remaining on the current contract.

The salary in the first year of a veteran extension may be any amount up to 107.5% of the player's previous salary5, but no more than the player's maximum salary in that season (i.e., the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent -- see question numbers 16 and 17).

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q59

If I read this right, Lowry limits his options greatly by signing an extension rather than waiting to be a UFA.

The trade rumours will stop after the deadline, but the question of whether he'll resign will remain until the off-season. There is only so much that management can do at this point.


Vasquez sucks. The rules nowadays are catered to guys that can handle the rock. PG is the easiest position to fill and you can get a decent backup at the vet minimum. I wouldn't re-sign him.

I wouldn't go so far to say he sucks, he's a suitable backup. But I wouldn't resign him either. I agree we can get adequacy for cheaper. I'd like to see a veteran backup that can shoot, or maybe even drafting a backup PG.

koreancabbage
02-19-2014, 10:08 AM
Vasquez sucks. The rules nowadays are catered to guys that can handle the rock. PG is the easiest position to fill and you can get a decent backup at the vet minimum. I wouldn't re-sign him.

Stone and Buycks sucks. so no, I don't think GVZ sucks that much. we have two other PGs who are chumps sitting at the end of the bench that suck.

GVZ knows the system now and gets along with his teammates and wants to be here in Toronto. if we sign him to just the QO amount for the next 3-4 years, which is about $3M per, i'm fine with that. the other backups I would like would be Hinrich, Ridnour, etc

djsunyc
02-19-2014, 11:12 AM
lowry is playing like a star...top 10 mvp candidate. it's unreal. the guy is balling.

i don't think it's a contract year thing either. i think he's always had this fire and it's all just coming together right now. he's older...he has a kid now. i think this is *it* for him. lock him for 4 years $36 mil and that'll be just fine.

with that said...there's alot of time before the summer so anything can happen.

I Rock Shaqs
02-19-2014, 12:07 PM
lowry is playing like a star...top 10 mvp candidate. it's unreal. the guy is balling.

i don't think it's a contract year thing either. i think he's always had this fire and it's all just coming together right now. he's older...he has a kid now. i think this is *it* for him. lock him for 4 years $36 mil and that'll be just fine.

with that said...there's alot of time before the summer so anything can happen.

Riiiiight, that is not going to happen with any team.

Bob_at_york
02-19-2014, 12:27 PM
Riiiiight, that is not going to happen with any team.

what isn't going to happen with any team? :confused:

killersweet
02-19-2014, 12:34 PM
lowry is playing like a star...top 10 mvp candidate. it's unreal. the guy is balling.

i don't think it's a contract year thing either. i think he's always had this fire and it's all just coming together right now. he's older...he has a kid now. i think this is *it* for him. lock him for 4 years $36 mil and that'll be just fine.
with that said...there's alot of time before the summer so anything can happen.

I think Lowry probably is looking for something like 4/44 M or more kinda deal.

Bob_at_york
02-19-2014, 12:37 PM
I think Lowry probably is looking for something like 4/44 M or more kinda deal.

Who is going to pay him that much? The Lakers? If not them than I don't think there is another team with cap space that will offer 10 mil per. Also Lowry might not be the best PG on the market, Isiah Thomas might be the one teams will target.

killersweet
02-19-2014, 12:40 PM
Who is going to pay him that much? The Lakers? If not them than I don't think there is another team with cap space that will offer 10 mil per. Also Lowry might not be the best PG on the market, Isiah Thomas might be the one teams will target.
I am not sure who is going to give him that much money, but he is certainly going to look for a deal like that. After the season that he is having right now, things are nicely aligning for him. Sure he had a questionable past, some injury concerns, but he is having one hell of a season. So he has some leverage and couple of teams who don't care about money may go after him. But I doubt he ends up with 11-12 M a season.

Freakazoid
02-19-2014, 02:41 PM
A lot of teams have a decent starting PG. I don't think Lowry will command that much $$$ in the off season.

I don't really understand the aversion to Rondo on this forum. I think he's a great piece to add and considering his play style, the Rose comparisons are unwarranted.

albertajaysfan
02-19-2014, 02:46 PM
I am not sure who is going to give him that much money, but he is certainly going to look for a deal like that. After the season that he is having right now, things are nicely aligning for him. Sure he had a questionable past, some injury concerns, but he is having one hell of a season. So he has some leverage and couple of teams who don't care about money may go after him. But I doubt he ends up with 11-12 M a season.

Just because they don't care about money doesn't mean they can screw themselves in terms of cap space. Cap management is important for all teams because of how difficult it becomes to add players was you are over the apron.

That limits what other teams can pay Lowry.

I think a Demar type contract is the best he can get.

killersweet
02-19-2014, 02:49 PM
Just because they don't care about money doesn't mean they can screw themselves in terms of cap space. Cap management is important for all teams because of how difficult it becomes to add players was you are over the apron.

That limits what other teams can pay Lowry.

I think a Demar type contract is the best he can get.

I personally think that's what he should get. But lowry and his agent are of course going to try for something better showcasing the season he is having now. We have seen some ridicules contracts in the past. Whether he deserves it or not, I think he will get something better than DD's in the open market. Also if he is going to get something similar to DD's contract, I don't know why MU would be worried about Lowry's return.

smith&wesson
02-19-2014, 02:51 PM
if we do trade lowry, I really hope its not to the knicks. they instantly become relevant again with that addition. they are in our division. I cant see why we would help them when they are clearly in a corner.

smith&wesson
02-19-2014, 02:52 PM
I personally think that's what he should get. But lowry and his agent are of course going to try for something better showcasing the season he is having now. We have seen some ridicules contracts in the past. Whether he deserves it or not, I think he will get something better than DD's in the open market. Also if he is going to get something similar to DD's contract, I don't know why MU would be worried about Lowry's return.

you're absolutely right! I don't know why others are pretending they don't know that lowry will be asking for more than 10 mill per year. every one knows he wants to get paid. other wise he probably would have been re signed already.

smith&wesson
02-19-2014, 02:56 PM
Who is going to pay him that much? The Lakers? If not them than I don't think there is another team with cap space that will offer 10 mil per. Also Lowry might not be the best PG on the market, Isiah Thomas might be the one teams will target.

good point and that's exactly what lowry and his agent are holding out to find out. other wise if he was looking for a 7-9 million$$ deal, I don't see why the extension wouldn't have happened already. Lowry whats to put the worm on the hook and see what he gets.

MU could be smart, hold out in until free agency and allow lowry and his agent to go shop around and maybe realize that they wont get the type of deal they are looking for and eventually settle on a much more fair deal with Toronto.

Freakazoid
02-19-2014, 03:03 PM
I'm pretty sure Lowry is going to get 40/5

smith&wesson
02-19-2014, 03:17 PM
I'm pretty sure Lowry is going to get 40/5

I can only imagine what kind of shape lowry will be in at 33.

mjt20mik
02-19-2014, 03:38 PM
Love what Kyle brings, but he's good for maybe 2 years (3 max). He's been fairly injury prone, and even last year didn't come into the season being in great shape.