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View Full Version : Are The Bobcats Better Than The Knicks?



Clippersfan86
02-12-2014, 12:31 PM
Not trying to make fun of the Knicks but seriously this is sad that we can even ask this question. Bobcats have the better record and have been more consistently solid this year. That's while having no all star caliber players. If the Bobcats get in the playoffs over the Knicks wow. This is a team most Knicks fans hyped as having a shot to take the east before the year started. On paper the Knicks SHOULD be far superior right?

ManRam
02-12-2014, 12:46 PM
They're pretty similar. The Knicks actually have a better point differential than the Bobcats, for whatever that's worth. I'm a little unsure how Charlotte went from the league's worst defense to the league's 6th best this year, but they have. Defensively they're better than NYK, offensively the Knicks are a bit better.

Charlotte's youth is right at the point where you'd expect strides to be made...but, weirdly enough, MKG, Kemba, Henderson, etc. really haven't made strides. There's room for improvement there, but they probably have been overachieving just a tad. Jefferson has been a huge difference maker, as has the weird defensive turnaround.

The Knicks have room for achievement and have probably underachieved on the whole.

I think they're pretty equal teams...and yes, the Knicks still are better on paper. If Charlotte can keep their defensive play up and any of those young guys get a little better I think they can fend teams off for a final playoff spot. I'm just not so certain that defense will sustain.

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 12:49 PM
Bobcats have a better defense. We have a better scoring team b/c of Melo. But yes they are playing better than us.

NYKnickFanatic
02-12-2014, 12:51 PM
Knicks just suck. From the coach, to Felton, to injuries, we're just bad. On paper are we better? Yes, of course.

Got to give credit to the Bobcats and their coach though, he has them playing hard.

NYKnickFanatic
02-12-2014, 12:52 PM
Not trying to make fun of the Knicks but seriously this is sad that we can even ask this question. Bobcats have the better record and have been more consistently solid this year. That's while having no all star caliber players. If the Bobcats get in the playoffs over the Knicks wow. This is a team most Knicks fans hyped as having a shot to take the east before the year started. On paper the Knicks SHOULD be far superior right?

You act like it's the same old Bobcats from the past couple of years...

Clippersfan86
02-12-2014, 12:55 PM
You act like it's the same old Bobcats from the past couple of years...

It's not that. As Manram already said though the Bobcats young guys aren't even developing as expected, yet they still have been more consistent. The Knicks had hype and talk of being possible contenders, the Bobcats were expected to be bottom feeders again. So it's a little troubling to see the Bobcats ahead 60+ percent of the way through the season.

Crackadalic
02-12-2014, 01:07 PM
There playing harder and for one another. Knicks are a hot mess right now. On paper the knicks have the better talent but we know that doesn't matter.

To note Felton ranks number 48 out of 50 point guards and he's the starter smh

Props to the bobcats though

Jetsguy
02-12-2014, 01:08 PM
The thing is if the answer is yes or the answer is no who cares? They are both bad and I dont really see the comparison. There are a ton of teams better than both of them!

Rivera
02-12-2014, 01:09 PM
Yes because of #kembaswag. He is #kembalicious

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 01:22 PM
Yes because of #kembaswag. He is #kembalicious

STFU! I hate that you're right :laugh2:

xxplayerxx23
02-12-2014, 01:28 PM
record wise yes, by the end of the season depending on moves I would say Knicks will finish with a. Better record. Al Jeff has been balling though very impressed with is dominance

black1605
02-12-2014, 01:34 PM
Not trying to make fun of the Knicks but seriously this is sad that we can even ask this question. Bobcats have the better record and have been more consistently solid this year. That's while having no all star caliber players. If the Bobcats get in the playoffs over the Knicks wow. This is a team most Knicks fans hyped as having a shot to take the east before the year started. On paper the Knicks SHOULD be far superior right?

Al Jefferson is an All-Star caliber player, he just didn't make the team.

It's been awesome to see the team's quick turnaround, but they have a ways to go. All signs point to them being very active in the trade market right now, so you really have to wait to judge how good they are until we see how their roster shakes out.

Steve Clifford is a legit NBA head coach.

2-ONE-5
02-12-2014, 01:46 PM
Cats are better but Big Al certainly is AS caliber

SportsFanatic10
02-12-2014, 01:47 PM
Cats are better but Big Al certainly is AS caliber

this

Rivera
02-12-2014, 01:47 PM
STFU! I hate that you're right :laugh2:

I've been trying to tell psd the power of #kembaswag for years now!

sunsfan88
02-12-2014, 04:17 PM
I'm happy for the Bobcats.

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 04:22 PM
The bobCats are playing some great defense right now. Big Al has also been unstoppable on the block. If we can acquire another scorer through trades we should be able to hold onto the 8th spot.

east fb knicks
02-12-2014, 04:25 PM
no they just have an actual nba head coach it's funny how having one of those translates into wins :facepalm:

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 04:30 PM
it's pretty close. neither team is very good and if i had to bet on one of them making the playoffs i think i'd still pick the Knicks simply because they have the best 2 players of both rosters combined IMO and that will probably be enough.

black1605
02-12-2014, 04:39 PM
it's pretty close. neither team is very good and if i had to bet on one of them making the playoffs i think i'd still pick the Knicks simply because they have the best 2 players of both rosters combined IMO and that will probably be enough.


Carmelo and who?

HeaTxRipZz
02-12-2014, 04:42 PM
Probably Amare.....But even that's a stretch this season lol. I give the next a slight edge but not much. Bobcats have a better coach for damn sure.

black1605
02-12-2014, 04:43 PM
Probably Amare.....But even that's a stretch this season lol. I give the next a slight edge but not much. Bobcats have a better coach for damn sure.

That's not a stretch, it's just wrong. Melo is by far the best player on either team, Jefferson is by far the second best.

Rockice_8
02-12-2014, 04:49 PM
no they just have an actual nba head coach it's funny how having one of those translates into wins :facepalm:

It's amazing what one year does. Last year knicks fans were loving Woody.

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 04:52 PM
That's not a stretch, it's just wrong. Melo is by far the best player on either team, Jefferson is by far the second best.

Yup. This. Amare doesnt belong in that conversation.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 04:59 PM
Carmelo and who?

naw man, Chandler. he hasn't been at his best this year but he still impacts the game in a more positive way than Jefferson IMO.

black1605
02-12-2014, 05:05 PM
naw man, Chandler. he hasn't been at his best this year but he still impacts the game in a more positive way than Jefferson IMO.

To each his own. I'll take Al 100 times out of 100 over Chandler.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 05:09 PM
To each his own. I'll take Al 100 times out of 100 over Chandler.

no problem with that

2-ONE-5
02-12-2014, 05:38 PM
The bobCats are playing some great defense right now. Big Al has also been unstoppable on the block. If we can acquire another scorer through trades we should be able to hold onto the 8th spot.

sounds like you guys might be getting Turner from us. He should be a help to secure a playoff spot

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 06:02 PM
naw man, Chandler. he hasn't been at his best this year but he still impacts the game in a more positive way than Jefferson IMO.

Last year i would have agreed, btu Big Al this year has taken his game to another level. He is the entire offence for the bobCats, and he has upped his game on the defensive end as well. While Chandlers play hasn't been that good this year. I cant see how Chandler can be considered better than Big Al. To each their own though. I can't hate.

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 06:03 PM
sounds like you guys might be getting Turner from us. He should be a help to secure a playoff spot

What would it take to get Turner from y'all though?

TheMightyHumph
02-12-2014, 06:06 PM
No one has mentioned the well-rounded play of Josh McRoberts.

TheMightyHumph
02-12-2014, 06:12 PM
What would it take to get Turner from y'all though?

They're talking Gordon and a 1st rdr. Which 1st rdr is the question.

black1605
02-12-2014, 06:16 PM
They're talking Gordon and a 1st rdr. Which 1st rdr is the question.

I wouldn't give the Detroit pick up. Portland pick, sure.

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 06:36 PM
I wouldn't give the Detroit pick up. Portland pick, sure.

No way onthe detroit pick. THe portland pick it would be interesting. Depending on if he signs an extention.

archdevil84
02-12-2014, 06:55 PM
Why is raymond felton considered to be such a terrible PG? i never understand that?

NBA_Starter
02-12-2014, 08:40 PM
They're pretty similar. The Knicks actually have a better point differential than the Bobcats, for whatever that's worth. I'm a little unsure how Charlotte went from the league's worst defense to the league's 6th best this year, but they have. Defensively they're better than NYK, offensively the Knicks are a bit better.

Charlotte's youth is right at the point where you'd expect strides to be made...but, weirdly enough, MKG, Kemba, Henderson, etc. really haven't made strides. There's room for improvement there, but they probably have been overachieving just a tad. Jefferson has been a huge difference maker, as has the weird defensive turnaround.

The Knicks have room for achievement and have probably underachieved on the whole.

I think they're pretty equal teams...and yes, the Knicks still are better on paper. If Charlotte can keep their defensive play up and any of those young guys get a little better I think they can fend teams off for a final playoff spot. I'm just not so certain that defense will sustain.

Steve Clifford is a defensive guru. I am as shocked as anyone but I read an article a few weeks ago (I can't remember where) how he teaches it and makes you feel like you are learning it as he goes. We are better than the Knicks right now, I think we signed Clifford a year too early but then again if we had waited he may have been snatched up by some other team.

Duncan = Donkey
02-12-2014, 08:49 PM
two not so good teams, id say charlotte are better

RLundi
02-12-2014, 08:56 PM
Knicks are a mess. Charlotte seems to have a future at least. Though MJ scares me.

Yes, Charlotte is better but it doesn't matter that they're the Bobcats. They are better than in year's past so who cares what their nickname is? At this point they are a solid eastern conference team. That's all that needs to be said concerning them.

Philly Hammer
02-12-2014, 08:59 PM
I don't think there is a big difference between the two as far as who is better they both suck in a horrible eastern conference that is as lousy as I have ever seen. The big difference is the Bobcats didn't have to spend 87 million to be where they are the Knicks did. Which is a huge indictment on how much of a pack of losers the knicks are including their front office.

Philly Hammer
02-12-2014, 09:10 PM
You act like it's the same old Bobcats from the past couple of years...It clearly isn't nor is it as good as that 09-10 Charlotte team that made the play-offs that year. They are not the 12-13 Bobcats, but they still stink all the same.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 09:27 PM
Last year i would have agreed, btu Big Al this year has taken his game to another level. He is the entire offence for the bobCats, and he has upped his game on the defensive end as well. While Chandlers play hasn't been that good this year. I cant see how Chandler can be considered better than Big Al. To each their own though. I can't hate.

I can't speak to any improvements in his defense but he's still the same extremely inefficient 20ppg. i can see that hasn't changed.

black1605
02-12-2014, 09:30 PM
I can't speak to any improvements in his defense but he's still the same extremely inefficient 20ppg. i can see that hasn't changed.

Wrong.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 09:33 PM
Wrong.

are you going on memory? because stats really don't lie when it comes to efficient scoring and he is next to last among qualifying C's.

black1605
02-12-2014, 09:36 PM
Are you going by PER or what? He hasn't played a single minute of power forward all year.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 09:42 PM
Are you going by PER or what? He hasn't played a single minute of power forward all year.

i realized my mistake and changed it to say C a minute later.

no i am not using PER because that doesn't give you any insight into efficiency at all. are you familiar with true shooting %? i am using a modified version of that stat that actually takes into account the precise amount of "and 1's" because true shooting does not.

black1605
02-12-2014, 09:48 PM
So where does he rank for centers using your stats?

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 09:53 PM
So where does he rank for centers using your stats?

an Al Jefferson attempt at the basket is worth an average of 1.02 points, which is in the bottom 5 of all qualified centers.

black1605
02-12-2014, 09:58 PM
Interesting. I'm not big on advanced stats, but I've watched him play a lot. If he's considered inefficient, the Bobcats could use a few more inefficient players.

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 09:58 PM
I can't speak to any improvements in his defense but he's still the same extremely inefficient 20ppg. i can see that hasn't changed.

Al started the year off pretty bad, but the last two months he has really turned it on. He's also the vocal point of the bobCats offense. Deals with double teams all the times. Chandler cant even score when when they play him one on one. I dont see how you can Value Chandler over Al

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 10:00 PM
Interesting. I'm not big on advanced stats, but I've watched him play a lot. If he's considered inefficient, the Bobcats could use a few more inefficient players.

His stats are bad because of his slow start to the year. He's been a beast here lately.

NBA_Starter
02-12-2014, 10:04 PM
^Also part of the slow start was injuries.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 10:05 PM
Al started the year off pretty bad, but the last two months he has really turned it on. He's also the vocal point of the bobCats offense. Deals with double teams all the times. Chandler cant even score when when they play him one on one. I dont see how you can Value Chandler over Al

i have a thing (being genuine here) for guys who are great defenders and while limited in offensive skills are extremely efficient scorers. two of my favorite players in the league - Tyson Chandler and Amir Johnson fit that mould.

not a fan of high volume, low efficiency scorers. while there is no question that having a guy you can go to for a basket is valuable, that value goes down a fair bit when they use up a lot of possessions offensively with a relatively low output. that's just how i see the game. IMO it forces the rest of the team to be extra efficient with the remaining possessions in order to have a chance.

siix
02-12-2014, 10:05 PM
of course the bobcats are better then the knicks

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 10:07 PM
Interesting. I'm not big on advanced stats, but I've watched him play a lot. If he's considered inefficient, the Bobcats could use a few more inefficient players.

lol i know he scores a lot of baskets for you and you are a fan of the Bobcats but what you just said would guarantee more losses, not less.

bigsams50
02-12-2014, 10:10 PM
i have a thing (being genuine here) for guys who are great defenders and while limited in offensive skills are extremely efficient scorers. two of my favorite players in the league - Tyson Chandler and Amir Johnson fit that mould.

not a fan of high volume, low efficiency scorers. while there is no question that having a guy you can go to for a basket is valuable, that value goes down a fair bit when they use up a lot of possessions offensively with a relatively low output. that's just how i see the game. IMO it forces the rest of the team to be extra efficient with the remaining possessions in order to have a chance.

I like having guys like that on my team too. I just think you are over valuing advanced stats right now when it comes to Big Al. Just look at him in the new year, he's been going off. Injuries (as nbastarter brings up) is a big reason why he got off to such a slow start. Last 10 games he's been averaging 27 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and over a block and a steal a game while connecting on over 50% of his shots. If you look at his numbers since the new year, he's been extremely efficient. I dont blame you though. Just from what he's been doing since getting healthy, i dont really see an inefficient player.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 10:13 PM
I like having guys like that on my team too. I just think you are over valuing advanced stats right now when it comes to Big Al. Just look at him in the new year, he's been going off. Injuries (as nbastarter brings up) is a big reason why he got off to such a slow start. Last 10 games he's been averaging 27 points, 11 boards, 2 assists and over a block and a steal a game while connecting on over 50% of his shots. If you look at his numbers since the new year, he's been extremely efficient. I dont blame you though. Just from what he's been doing since getting healthy, i dont really see an inefficient player.
he's a very solid player. definitely a workhorse.

blahblahyoutoo
02-12-2014, 10:28 PM
naw man, Chandler. he hasn't been at his best this year but he still impacts the game in a more positive way than Jefferson IMO.

weren't knicks fans touting their big 3 of melo, amare and chandler not too long ago?

black1605
02-12-2014, 10:29 PM
weren't knicks fans touting their big 3 of melo, amare and chandler not too long ago?

The Expensive Three

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 10:35 PM
weren't knicks fans touting their big 3 of melo, amare and chandler not too long ago?

i pay attention to the Knicks, not so much Knick fans.

J4KOP99
02-12-2014, 10:38 PM
They may be better than the Knicks.. But not the nets. At least not tonight. This is brutal

2-ONE-5
02-12-2014, 10:52 PM
They're talking Gordon and a 1st rdr. Which 1st rdr is the question.

this and it would be the Blazers first

ldawg
02-12-2014, 10:54 PM
I know the nba wanted equal opportunity but I think it hurts a little. Its cool that any team can win I like that but its a bit boring. Maybe this is just the rough before the calm but if this is how its going to be its not all that. All match ups are the same running teams jacking threes playing no defense injury left right center no marketable names. No big time match ups that is a must see TV. The biggest attractions are Indy, Mia, Okc, Clippers after that its a bit of an eye sore. Most of whom are just trying to get a good daft pick.

ldawg
02-12-2014, 11:09 PM
IMO the NBA need to get the big name teams back in the race rather than punishing them. Get rid of the cap it save the owners money to pay the players less but it hurts teams that has the cash They cant sign the needed help. Players get injured don't punish teams like that. Cost of living vary taxes are different. Cost of a home in LA or NY is not the same as Atlanta or the non tax in Florida. Got to get NY, LA, Lakers, Boston, Bulls back in the race. This thing is to much like the d league. The East in general is a eye sore.

shep33
02-12-2014, 11:29 PM
The Cats have put in a nice year. Hope they make the playoffs.

NBA_Starter
02-12-2014, 11:57 PM
The Cats have put in a nice year. Hope they make the playoffs.

Thanks for the props, I think a lot of people who haven't seen us play see us as just the same old LOLCats, we are not contenders by any means but we are worlds better than the last few seasons.

JNA17
02-13-2014, 12:00 AM
Thanks for the props, I think a lot of people who haven't seen us play see us as just the same old LOLCats, we are not contenders by any means but we are worlds better than the last few seasons.

Don't worry, the team will be treated with respect again once the name is changed back to the Hornets.

AND they get back their jerseys.

TheMightyHumph
02-13-2014, 12:00 AM
The Cats have put in a nice year. Hope they make the playoffs.

I'm rooting for them to make the playoffs,

Jodh McRoberts is possibly my favorite player (certainly top 3) and one of the most undervalued players in the league, including undervalued by the team I root for, the Nets.

nysportsfan23
02-13-2014, 12:10 AM
To NBA,
Give us something, anything of value for the players on our roster. Stop the madness please, we beg you. Also, make a coaching change.
Sincerely,
Knicks Fans

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-13-2014, 05:27 AM
Why is raymond felton considered to be such a terrible PG? i never understand that?

he's fat

Drummond#1
02-13-2014, 05:47 AM
Yes

Drummond#1
02-13-2014, 05:49 AM
Less talented but better. If the Knicks could learn how to play as a team and use the players they have properly they would be top 4 in the east.

Raps_93
02-13-2014, 05:56 AM
Yep.Bobcats got a great coach and have a future.

/thread

LongIslandIcedZ
02-13-2014, 10:26 AM
Bobcats right now are better than 10 other teams.