PDA

View Full Version : Knicks want to trade for Lowry ..... But for real this time



Stunner
02-11-2014, 09:53 PM
http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm


This originization is so confused

JesusNYY_Savior
02-11-2014, 09:54 PM
We need to sell not add...

FOBolous
02-11-2014, 09:57 PM
Lowry's a poorman's Marbury. not as crazy, a little less of a headache but still a headache, just as selfish, and not as good.

plus how's Lowry going to fit next to ball-dominant Melo?

Stunner
02-11-2014, 10:02 PM
Doesn't even matter if they fit , they have half a season to impress Melo to stay . That means getting any upgrade outside of the SF.

mightybosstone
02-11-2014, 10:02 PM
Lowry's a poorman's Marbury. not as crazy, a little less of a headache but still a headache, just as selfish, and not as good.

plus how's Lowry going to fit next to ball-dominant Melo?

Mmmm... I agree with you that Lowry's got a piss poor attitude more often than not, but he's playing better this season than Marbury ever played in his career. In the right situation with the right teammates, I could see him being a solid No. 2 or No. 3 for a contender. I'm just not sure that situation is in New York, which looks like it's going to implode every other week.

If you're New York and adding Lowry helps you keep Melo long-term, then you do it. But the better question is why you do it if you're Toronto. This is the most relevant the Raptors have been in years, they could finish as high as the third seed, and New York does not have the pieces to make Lowry worth the trade.

ManRam
02-11-2014, 10:04 PM
What do y'all think the Knicks could offer to temp Masai? Especially since he doesn't seem hellbent on moving Lowry.

Stunner
02-11-2014, 10:08 PM
What do y'all think the Knicks could offer to temp Masai? Especially since he doesn't seem hellbent on moving Lowry.

The same trade as last time until Dolan bagged out , Knicks will give up their 1st .

Stunner
02-11-2014, 10:12 PM
Slow down on Lowry has played better than Marbury has his whole career . Starbury had to 2 all star game appearances and two times he's made the all nba third team .

ManRam
02-11-2014, 10:12 PM
The same trade as last time until Dolan bagged out , Knicks will give up their 1st .

Shump, Hardaway and the 2018th first...is that what it was? Because a distant first ain't cutting it.


But, again, the most recent rumors are that Toronto is unlikely to move him. We'll see.

kobe4thewinbang
02-11-2014, 10:17 PM
They need to fire Woodson and the GM. Fire sale in the offseason. Melo's decision is out of their hands.
They're bitter about not being able to acquire Rondo. That doesn't mean Lowry is the solution. This season is lost.

Stunner
02-11-2014, 10:17 PM
Shump, Hardaway and the 2018th first...is that what it was? Because a distant first ain't cutting it.


But, again, the most recent rumors are that Toronto is unlikely to move him. We'll see.

Noooo I don't think that was it all lol

ManRam
02-11-2014, 10:20 PM
Noooo I don't think that was it all lol

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/dolan-blocks-knicks-deal-raptors-lowry-article-1.1546553


the Knicks were prepared to trade Raymond Felton and Metta World Peace plus Iman Shumpert or Tim Hardaway Jr. or a 2018 first-round pick

The Raps preferred the pick, Dolan said no.

bucketss
02-11-2014, 10:22 PM
Lowry's a poorman's Marbury. not as crazy, a little less of a headache but still a headache, just as selfish, and not as good.

plus how's Lowry going to fit next to ball-dominant Melo?

hes not nearly as selfish

Chrisclover
02-11-2014, 10:26 PM
More often then not, when an organization is struggling and their marquee player has no desire to re -sign here, the FO do whatever they can to keep him,even though the cost may be high and ridiculous. For a big market team like NYC, they have never been shy to pay the luxury tax for the superstars because their goal is simply to win a championship. So it is very easy to deduce that they are desperate to keep superstars. If they fail to do it, they feel embarrassed, like lakers losing Howard. The Knicks paid half of their starting lineup to acquire melo and they can not afford to lose him now

Max.This
02-11-2014, 10:29 PM
Shump, Hardaway and the 2018th first...is that what it was? Because a distant first ain't cutting it.


But, again, the most recent rumors are that Toronto is unlikely to move him. We'll see.

Seems like a trap to me. Trade our only 2 young assets for a guy whos playing well on "contract year" and can leave us high and dry 4 months from now along with a draft pick. Even the knicks aren't that dumb.

Max.This
02-11-2014, 10:35 PM
Raptors have it a lot worse. They keep lowry, go into the playoffs and draft in the high teens. Lowry is a free agent and who knows if the raps are willing to dish out lawson curry money for lowry. they could potentially lose out on lowry and wonder if they traded him before they couldve had a chance at the lottery. If i were the knicks front office I'd give them a decent offer shump, felton, pick. If they take , then fine, if not, then so be it

bucketss
02-11-2014, 10:35 PM
Seems like a trap to me. Trade our only 2 young assets for a guy whos playing well on "contract year" and can leave us high and dry 4 months from now along with a draft pick. Even the knicks aren't that dumb.

not to mention you guys already gave us a 1st for... wait for it..........



Bargnani :laugh:

JasonJohnHorn
02-11-2014, 10:35 PM
Lowry's a poorman's Marbury. not as crazy, a little less of a headache but still a headache, just as selfish, and not as good.

plus how's Lowry going to fit next to ball-dominant Melo?

Lowry = Marbury?

Marbury used to take 18 shots pe36 minutes. Lowry's career average is 10 and change. Almost HALF of what Marbury did.

Neither were great shooters, but Lowry isn't the chucker that MArbury was.

I will totally back you up that Lowry isn't worth giving up a lot for, but I don't think the Marbury comparison is a good one.

deaner
02-11-2014, 10:44 PM
Faried and future first

Jamiecballer
02-11-2014, 10:46 PM
Chandler and a 1st.

Max.This
02-11-2014, 10:48 PM
not to mention you guys already gave us a 1st for... wait for it..........



Bargnani :laugh:

To be honest. What we gave up for bargnani is nothing. He gave us 13 and 5 which im not upset about. Our pieces just dont fit. Hes a good player and that pick is pending whether nuggets want to swap. The thing is, Bargnani is proven to be a decent scorer with poor team defensive instincts. This is known, but what we got from Bargs far outweigh what 2 2nd rounders, Steve novak who doesnt play and a pick that you might not even keep if denver says hey i want what you got

KnicksorBust
02-11-2014, 10:50 PM
We should have made this deal the first time. We would be in the playoffs if we had. I prefer Rondo long term. If the price on Lowry has gone up I think now we have to pass.

Ill21
02-11-2014, 10:57 PM
If they trade a first round pick for a guy they cant resign after this season i am done with this team. only way im giving up a first is if its for a guy under contract for a few years

Ill21
02-11-2014, 10:58 PM
We should have made this deal the first time. We would be in the playoffs if we had. I prefer Rondo long term. If the price on Lowry has gone up I think now we have to pass.

so you are ok with giving up a 1st for a player the knicks will have for 3 months?

xxplayerxx23
02-11-2014, 11:00 PM
Who is to say we can't resign him?

TorontoHuskies
02-11-2014, 11:02 PM
It's gotta be hardaway jr or shumpert and an unprotected 2015 1st or it's not happening Knicks blew their chance the price is higher now.

Max.This
02-11-2014, 11:10 PM
It's gotta be hardaway jr or shumpert and an unprotected 2015 1st or it's not happening Knicks blew their chance the price is higher now.

hate to burst ur bubble, but we cant trade our 2015 cause cba doesnt allow teams to trade back to back picks. Yeah i know what your thinking, they're just that damn dumb

JesusNYY_Savior
02-11-2014, 11:11 PM
It's gotta be hardaway jr or shumpert and an unprotected 2015 1st or it's not happening Knicks blew their chance the price is higher now.
Okay keep him then have dun being in purgatory

FriedTofuz
02-11-2014, 11:18 PM
Sorry knicks, you hesitate, you masturbate. The raptors arent going to wait around for your piss-poor offer anyways. Melo will be a laker!

FriedTofuz
02-11-2014, 11:21 PM
Shumpert + Tim Hardaway + 2 unprotected first rounders in 2018 and somewhere else. is the only tempting offer for the raptors. I actually feel bad for knick fans

FriedTofuz
02-11-2014, 11:22 PM
The knicks remind me of the Cavs during Lebrons Contract year. They want everyone, but have zero assets to give up. :laugh2: in a desperate attemp to preserve their star player.

TorontoHuskies
02-11-2014, 11:24 PM
hate to burst ur bubble, but we cant trade our 2015 cause cba doesnt allow teams to trade back to back picks. Yeah i know what your thinking, they're just that damn dumb

Damn that sucks I liked the 2015 draft but I'll take a 2016 pick then...I know they're desperate and Dolan is going do something stupid to keep Anthony happy. Lowry isn't someone to trust he plays for the contract that's it...Last year all he spent most of time complaining that they didn't have his favorite fast food restaurant in Toronto (exaggerating a little but seriously he loves his food)..You watch you guys will get him and he'll gain like 15 pounds after you resign him.

NBA_Starter
02-11-2014, 11:25 PM
Is Felton headed out?

TorontoHuskies
02-11-2014, 11:31 PM
Is Felton headed out?

Doubt it Ujiri isn't going take on his 3 year deal.

Max.This
02-11-2014, 11:38 PM
Damn that sucks I liked the 2015 draft but I'll take a 2016 pick then...I know they're desperate and Dolan is going do something stupid to keep Anthony happy. Lowry isn't someone to trust he plays for the contract that's it...Last year all he spent most of time complaining that they didn't have his favorite fast food restaurant in Toronto (exaggerating a little but seriously he loves his food)..You watch you guys will get him and he'll gain like 15 pounds after you resign him.

bro catch up. We gave u our 2016 pick already

ghettosean
02-11-2014, 11:38 PM
Shumpert + Tim Hardaway + 2 unprotected first rounders in 2018 and somewhere else. is the only tempting offer for the raptors. I actually feel bad for knick fans Preech broda!!!

LanceUpperCut
02-11-2014, 11:38 PM
Damn that sucks I liked the 2015 draft but I'll take a 2016 pick then...I know they're desperate and Dolan is going do something stupid to keep Anthony happy. Lowry isn't someone to trust he plays for the contract that's it...Last year all he spent most of time complaining that they didn't have his favorite fast food restaurant in Toronto (exaggerating a little but seriously he loves his food)..You watch you guys will get him and he'll gain like 15 pounds after you resign him.

Man the Raptors own their 2016 pick already. Would have to be 2018.

TorontoHuskies
02-11-2014, 11:43 PM
bro catch up. We gave u our 2016 pick already

Remove the protection on it then and throw in a 2018

Max.This
02-11-2014, 11:47 PM
Remove the protection on it then and throw in a 2018

Lol theres no protection. When we traded for melo we also gave them a right to swap first rounders in 2016. Guess what? we traded our pick to you guys so now if denver wants to swap picks then they have the ability to do so. Im not sure what happened to our 2017.....

Cal827
02-11-2014, 11:50 PM
Remove the protection on it then and throw in a 2018

They can't change the protection on the 2016 pick. Denver gets first dibs on it due to the Carmelo Anthony trade. We get the less favorable one between Denver and New York in 2016

http://www1.******.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

The Big Squash
02-11-2014, 11:51 PM
Dayum da knicks be stupid

TorontoHuskies
02-11-2014, 11:53 PM
Lol theres no protection. When we traded for melo we also gave them a right to swap first rounders in 2016. Guess what? we traded our pick to you guys so now if denver wants to swap picks then they have the ability to do so. Im not sure what happened to our 2017.....

You guys are gonna have to give up even more than I thought than because 2018 picks are pretty useless to us right now. Maybe two 2018 unprotected firsts and shumpert than because those 2018 picks could be awful if you guys land James or Durant in those 4 years.

Stunner
02-11-2014, 11:55 PM
Dayum da knicks be stupid

I laughed really hard at this

TorontoHuskies
02-11-2014, 11:55 PM
They can't change the protection on the 2016 pick. Denver gets first dibs on it due to the Carmelo Anthony trade. We get the less favorable one between Denver and New York in 2016

http://www1.******.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Ujiri screwed his own team over with that trade.

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 12:10 AM
Dayum da knicks be stupid

it's not the Knicks, well really it is. It is the Knicks FO. What likely is Melo gave JimBo an ultimatum.

Ill21
02-12-2014, 12:20 AM
Who is to say we can't resign him?

umm, the salary cap???

unless he plans on taking a lot less money than what he made this year

Ill21
02-12-2014, 12:24 AM
Remove the protection on it then and throw in a 2018

you have no idea what you are talking about lol

The Big Squash
02-12-2014, 12:25 AM
I laughed really hard at this

yea boi u no wut im sayin. dey needa feed da beast JR instead makin dat honey nut ***** happy hahahahahahah :clap:

Tmath
02-12-2014, 12:29 AM
Knick fans are cute, thinking they are going to get Lowry or Rondo.

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 12:43 AM
Knick fans are cute, thinking they are going to get Lowry or Rondo.

They probably will get Lowry...Uriji isn't stupid he knows Lowry is just playing for a contract and will either walk or make us overpay. If I'm Ujiri I'd trade him for sure the fact that the Knicks are desperate to please Anthony and have come crawling back means they know they're going to have to pay through the teeth for Lowry this time because Ujiri likely has a grudge against them now and will want even more.

Ill21
02-12-2014, 12:51 AM
They probably will get Lowry...Uriji isn't stupid he knows Lowry is just playing for a contract and will either walk or make us overpay.

Yup, Dolan is dumb and thats why this contract year superstar lowry will be a knick

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 12:53 AM
you have no idea what you are talking about lol

lol I didn't even pay attention to that trade or the knicks draft pick situation so I'm just guessing.

Ill21
02-12-2014, 12:54 AM
Im jealous of Toronto that they have a compenent GM

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 12:58 AM
Im jealous of Toronto that they have a compenent GM

He still has to prove he can build a contender but he definitely knows how to rape teams in trades

Ill21
02-12-2014, 01:00 AM
He still has to prove he can win but he definitely knows how to rape teams in trades

ex. knicks give up a 1st for Bargs :facepalm:

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 01:02 AM
Im jealous of Toronto that they have a compenent GM

tent* GM, but yeah.

xxplayerxx23
02-12-2014, 01:03 AM
umm, the salary cap???

unless he plans on taking a lot less money than what he made this year


Pretty sure you get his birds which you can turn into 8 mill a year

Ill21
02-12-2014, 01:04 AM
tent* GM, but yeah.

Thanks, haha. For some reason it auto corrected to that

xxplayerxx23
02-12-2014, 01:05 AM
Lowry has always had talent. :shrug:

Ill21
02-12-2014, 01:05 AM
Pretty sure you get his birds which you can turn into 8 mill a year

This is what im not to sure about.

Whats the difference between Bird and early bird rights?

Pierzynski4Prez
02-12-2014, 01:10 AM
I bet the Knicks are who teams call first when they want to dump a player. I think lost of it has to do with Dolan, but damn have they made some dumb ****ing moves the last 10 years. Picked up Billups team option, only to amnesty him when they could have saved it for stat. Even worse is that they traded the Bulls essentially Aldridge and Joakim. Noah for Eddy freaking Curry.

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 01:11 AM
ex. knicks give up a 1st for Bargs :facepalm:

Yea exactly...Anthony should just tell the knicks to trade him and resign with them in the offseason, that way you could probably get Smart or Ennis in the draft (along with a bunch of other assets) instead of Lowry who is playing for a contract

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 01:12 AM
I bet the Knicks are who teams call first when they want to dump a player. I think lost of it has to do with Dolan, but damn have they made some dumb ****ing moves the last 10 years. Picked up Billups team option, only to amnesty him when they could have saved it for stat. Even worse is that they traded the Bulls essentially Aldridge and Joakim. Noah for Eddy freaking Curry.

Got no first rd pick in one of the deepest drafts too

Cal827
02-12-2014, 01:15 AM
I think both of these deals are possible knowing that it's James Dolan

Lowry for Shumpert, Carmelo 2018, 2020 firsts

or

Lowry for Shumpert, Hardaway Jr., Unprotected Firsts every two years from 2018-2030, the ability to swap picks every two years from 2019-2029, with a top 3 protection in 2027

:laugh::laugh:

I'm curious if something would come out. I can See Ujiri dealing out Lowry still though, as he'll be entitled to a huge payday (especially considering his last contract, he's going for the megabucks lol). Maybe if we get enough from the Knicks, we might try and swap them to go get a higher pick this season, or maybe to go after another good guard that might be disgruntled and want out.

Kyrie Irving :dance:

John Walls Era
02-12-2014, 01:15 AM
Knicks giving the next 5 firsts? Or are they giving the first from 2020-2030?

xxplayerxx23
02-12-2014, 01:17 AM
This is what im not to sure about.

Whats the difference between Bird and early bird rights?

I think Early birds you can't offer over a certain amount, regular you can offer up as much as you want, Dolan usually is willing to pay the tax as long as his name isn't Lin lol

Pierzynski4Prez
02-12-2014, 01:19 AM
Got no first rd pick in one of the deepest drafts too

The new CBA was a blessing for Knick fans. At least they get a draft pick every other year.

Ebbs
02-12-2014, 01:22 AM
Lowry's a poorman's Marbury. not as crazy, a little less of a headache but still a headache, just as selfish, and not as good.

plus how's Lowry going to fit next to ball-dominant Melo?

What an awful comparison. Lol

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 01:23 AM
I hate to say this, because I'm going to come off like a dick, even though I'm not trying to be. But I think I'd rather be a fan of almost any other NBA team right about now than the Knicks. I feel bad for them, because they're likely looking at a lose/lose situation with no real answer in sight.

On one hand, they could stay pat at the trade deadline, fail to make the playoffs and Melo could feasibly walk after this season with no first round pick in site and a steaming pile of $60 million in contracts between Amare, Chandler, Bargs, Smith and Felton. On the other hand, they could deal any young assets or picks they have left for Kyle Lowry, barely make the playoffs to get killed in the first round and STILL not end up with Lowry or Melo in the long-term, in addition to not having those assets they just traded.

But they kind of have to do something. If they don't, Melo likely isn't going to stay beyond 2015, and may not stick around for the last year of his contract in the first place. Then you're looking at an absolutely abomination of a team next season with no cap room and no star to build around. But if they do, what's the guarantee that he sticks around?

It just sucks to be a Knick or a Knick fan right now.

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 01:24 AM
The new CBA was a blessing for Knick fans. At least they get a draft pick every other year.

depends which way you look at it because that same rule might prevent you from getting Lowry or giving up a lot more than you should for him (i.e two 2018 first + a prospect vs one 2016 first + prospect).

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 01:27 AM
I hate to say this, because I'm going to come off like a dick, even though I'm not trying to be. But I think I'd rather be a fan of almost any other NBA team right about now than the Knicks. I feel bad for them, because they're likely looking at a lose/lose situation with no real answer in sight.

On one hand, they could stay pat at the trade deadline, fail to make the playoffs and Melo could feasibly walk after this season with no first round pick in site and a steaming pile of $60 million in contracts between Amare, Chandler, Bargs, Smith and Felton. On the other hand, they could deal any young assets or picks they have left for Kyle Lowry, barely make the playoffs to get killed in the first round and STILL not end up with Lowry or Melo in the long-term, in addition to not having those assets they just traded.

But they kind of have to do something. If they don't, Melo likely isn't going to stay beyond 2015, and may not stick around for the last year of his contract in the first place. Then you're looking at an absolutely abomination of a team next season with no cap room and no star to build around. But if they do, what's the guarantee that he sticks around?

It just sucks to be a Knick or a Knick fan right now.

They should just trade Melo, Chandler, Jr smith for as many picks as possible in the upcoming drafts and tank hard...they would probably be a better team in 3 years than anything with that group.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-12-2014, 01:31 AM
I hate to say this, because I'm going to come off like a dick, even though I'm not trying to be. But I think I'd rather be a fan of almost any other NBA team right about now than the Knicks. I feel bad for them, because they're likely looking at a lose/lose situation with no real answer in sight.

On one hand, they could stay pat at the trade deadline, fail to make the playoffs and Melo could feasibly walk after this season with no first round pick in site and a steaming pile of $60 million in contracts between Amare, Chandler, Bargs, Smith and Felton. On the other hand, they could deal any young assets or picks they have left for Kyle Lowry, barely make the playoffs to get killed in the first round and STILL not end up with Lowry or Melo in the long-term, in addition to not having those assets they just traded.

But they kind of have to do something. If they don't, Melo likely isn't going to stay beyond 2015, and may not stick around for the last year of his contract in the first place. Then you're looking at an absolutely abomination of a team next season with no cap room and no star to build around. But if they do, what's the guarantee that he sticks around?

It just sucks to be a Knick or a Knick fan right now.

They'll have a lot of cap space in the summer of 2015, unless they give Melo his max which is likely. But the top FA's aren't dumb these days. Seeing a team that doesn't have a 2016 pick, and if the Knicks deal the 2018 pick for Lowry, it only hurts their chances to lure top FA's.

But yea, I remember the summer of 2010 talk was starting with them in 2008, and here 4 years later they made it past the 1st round once and now basically will have to wait another 2 seasons again with barely any assets to help.

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 01:37 AM
They should just trade Melo, Chandler, Jr smith for as many picks as possible in the upcoming drafts and tank hard...they would probably be a better team in 3 years than anything with that group.


They'll have a lot of cap space in the summer of 2015, unless they give Melo his max which is likely. But the top FA's aren't dumb these days. Seeing a team that doesn't have a 2016 pick, and if the Knicks deal the 2018 pick for Lowry, it only hurts their chances to lure top FA's.

But yea, I remember the summer of 2010 talk was starting with them in 2008, and here 4 years later they made it past the 1st round once and now basically will have to wait another 2 seasons again with barely any assets to help.
See, I've said all season long that I thought the Knicks should do everything in their power to keep Melo. Because getting a top 10-15 guy in this league is damn hard to do, and if you've got one, you have to do whatever you can to keep him wearing your jersey. But I really thought they'd turn around and play better basketball, and I'm starting to seriously waver on that opinion.

Do Knicks fans think Melo has a good enough relationship with the front office that they know what his plans are? I wonder if Lowry is a player Melo has personally asked they go get. If that's the case, then I guess you sort of have to do whatever you can to get him unless you're willing to blow it up before the trade deadline.

effen5
02-12-2014, 01:48 AM
The Knicks are so screwed it's not even funny. They'll most likely keep Melo which will hinder their future even more. They have no assets any team wants except for Melo. If they let Melo walk, they have no picks to build up their future. It's a mess.

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 01:51 AM
See, I've said all season long that I thought the Knicks should do everything in their power to keep Melo. Because getting a top 10-15 guy in this league is damn hard to do, and if you've got one, you have to do whatever you can to keep him wearing your jersey. But I really thought they'd turn around and play better basketball, and I'm starting to seriously waver on that opinion.

Do Knicks fans think Melo has a good enough relationship with the front office that they know what his plans are? I wonder if Lowry is a player Melo has personally asked they go get. If that's the case, then I guess you sort of have to do whatever you can to get him unless you're willing to blow it up before the trade deadline.

You probably aren't going win anything with Melo as your main guy anyways he's basically a slightly better version of Rudy Gay and will never be successful on his own unless he's paired up with a Top 10 player. You'd probably be more successful building a team with a bunch of borderline allstar players and playing a team-oriented game rather than having Melo run the show. Knicks got so many attitude problems on their team it's no wonder they can't build any chemistry.

xabial
02-12-2014, 01:53 AM
I hate to say this, because I'm going to come off like a dick, even though I'm not trying to be. But I think I'd rather be a fan of almost any other NBA team right about now than the Knicks. I feel bad for them, because they're likely looking at a lose/lose situation with no real answer in sight.

On one hand, they could stay pat at the trade deadline, fail to make the playoffs and Melo could feasibly walk after this season with no first round pick in site and a steaming pile of $60 million in contracts between Amare, Chandler, Bargs, Smith and Felton. On the other hand, they could deal any young assets or picks they have left for Kyle Lowry, barely make the playoffs to get killed in the first round and STILL not end up with Lowry or Melo in the long-term, in addition to not having those assets they just traded.

But they kind of have to do something. If they don't, Melo likely isn't going to stay beyond 2015, and may not stick around for the last year of his contract in the first place. Then you're looking at an absolutely abomination of a team next season with no cap room and no star to build around. But if they do, what's the guarantee that he sticks around?

It just sucks to be a Knick or a Knick fan right now.

Isnt as bad as it looks on paper. The Knicks have more nearly $50 million dollars of cap space coming of the books after the 2014-2015 NBA season and thats not including Carmelo. (STAT $23.4M, Tyson Chandler $14.5, Andrea Bargnani $11.5M, Metta $1.6M, all come off the books after '14-'15.)

This gives the Knicks many options, whether or not they extend/trade Carmelo. The abundance of $50MM+ in expiring contracts will be extremely beneficial to the Knicks. Barring an extension, the 2015 Free Agent class is headlined by Kevin Love, Rajon Rondo, Paul Millsap, Jeff Green, Brook Lopez, Carlos Boozer, Al Jefferson, Anderson Verajoe, Monta Ellis,Roy Hibbert, Omar Asik, Jeremy Lin, Aaron Afflalo, Gerald Henderson, Marc Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Luis Williams and others, all are expected to hit unrestricted Free Agency at their discretion. (Please note Kevin love, Jeff Green, Gerald Henderson, Al Jefferson, Monta Ellis, Roy Hibbert, David West have player options that they can decline to hit unrestricted Free Agency to receive a more lucrative contract)

Knicks new President & GM Steve Mills has many scenarios on the table. If they find a way to trade JR Smith who has a $6.2M Player option and Raymond Felton who has a $3.9M Player option in the 2015 NBA season they will have even more cap space. In today's NBA These are both reasonable player options that can be declined by the player or moved.

Knowing them they will still find a way to **** that up. A smart GM/owner waits patiently, instead of making drastic panic moves to please their Diva. I actually think playing in NY would appeal to some of these players I listed above.

I know many may not agree, but honestly I wouldn't even sign Carmelo instead trading him for draft picks and put yourself in position to sign 3 Max FA's!!

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 02:03 AM
You probably aren't going win anything with Melo as your main guy anyways he's basically a slightly better version of Rudy Gay and will never be successful on his own unless he's paired up with a Top 10 player. You'd probably be more successful building a team with a bunch of borderline allstar players and playing a team-oriented game rather than having Melo run the show. Knicks got so many attitude problems on their team it's no wonder they can't build any chemistry.

Yeahhh.... I'm going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Calling him a slightly better Rudy Gay is a MAJOR understatement on Melo's game. I do think he's been overrated a bit over the years, but he's still one of the four or five best pure scorers in the game and he's become damn efficient the last couple of years since developing a reliable 3-point shot. He could certainly improve as a distributor and defender, but his rebounding is certainly a plus and you could do a hell of a lot worse than Melo as your No. 1 guy.

I still think you can win a title with Melo as your top guy in the right system. If you pair Melo with a solid distributing PG, good team defense and a fairly reliable No. 2, you could definitely contend in this league. New York would have been damn close if Amare's knees weren't made of paper mache and JR Smith didn't suck so much.

effen5
02-12-2014, 02:04 AM
Yeahhh.... I'm going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Calling him a slightly better Rudy Gay is a MAJOR understatement on Melo's game. I do think he's been overrated a bit over the years, but he's still one of the four or five best pure scorers in the game and he's become damn efficient the last couple of years since developing a reliable 3-point shot. He could certainly improve as a distributor and defender, but his rebounding is certainly a plus and you could do a hell of a lot worse than Melo as your No. 1 guy.

I still think you can win a title with Melo as your top guy in the right system. If you pair Melo with a solid distributing PG, good team defense and a fairly reliable No. 2, you could definitely contend in this league. New York would have been damn close if Amare's knees weren't made of paper mache and JR Smith didn't suck so much.

If I recall, when Amare was first ballin with the Knicks, when Melo came over, it really hindered Amare's game.

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 02:13 AM
Yeahhh.... I'm going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Calling him a slightly better Rudy Gay is a MAJOR understatement on Melo's game. I do think he's been overrated a bit over the years, but he's still one of the four or five best pure scorers in the game and he's become damn efficient the last couple of years since developing a reliable 3-point shot. He could certainly improve as a distributor and defender, but his rebounding is certainly a plus and you could do a hell of a lot worse than Melo as your No. 1 guy.

I still think you can win a title with Melo as your top guy in the right system. If you pair Melo with a solid distributing PG, good team defense and a fairly reliable No. 2, you could definitely contend in this league. New York would have been damn close if Amare's knees weren't made of paper mache and JR Smith didn't suck so much.

look at their numbers...he's very similar just gets more time and shots

Gay Melo
FG% .457 .448
3p% .358 .414
TS% .539 .554
PPG 20.7 25.3
RPG 6.3 8.0
AST 2.9 2.8
FGA 16.3 21.4
Min 34.7 38.6

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 02:16 AM
If I recall, when Amare was first ballin with the Knicks, when Melo came over, it really hindered Amare's game.

Well, yeah. But that's kind of expected. You're going from being the top option to a secondary option in an offense that revolves most of the time around another player entirely. But that doesn't mean the Knicks couldn't have made a few trips to the ECF if Stoudemire had stayed healthy. I still don't think they had a chance in hell of beating Miami in the playoffs, but they at least would have been in contention every year.

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 02:21 AM
look at their numbers...he's very similar just gets more time and shots

Gay Melo
FG% .457 .448
3p% .358 .414
TS% .539 .554
PPG 20.7 25.3
RPG 6.3 8.0
AST 2.9 2.8
FGA 16.3 21.4
Min 34.7 38.6

You're also leaving out PER and WS/48 where Melo has a HUGE edge. Gay is also having arguably his most efficient offensive season in three years. And I don't buy the "he's just better because he takes more shots" argument. More shots does not mean Gay would be as efficient as he is now, and it certainly doesn't mean he would be as productive as Melo. If anything, Gay is probably performing well in Sacramento because he's the secondary option now, whereas Melo is the focal point of every defense he faces as the number one option while still being the far more efficient offensive player.

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 02:33 AM
You're also leaving out PER and WS/48 where Melo has a HUGE edge. Gay is also having arguably his most efficient offensive season in three years. And I don't buy the "he's just better because he takes more shots" argument. More shots does not mean Gay would be as efficient as he is now, and it certainly doesn't mean he would be as productive as Melo. If anything, Gay is probably performing well in Sacramento because he's the secondary option now, whereas Melo is the focal point of every defense he faces as the number one option while still being the far more efficient offensive player.

Those number were with Toronto included where he was awful. All i'm saying is that Melo's shooting numbers aren't that impressive for a so called 10-15 player in the league. All I see him as is a volume shooter who doesn't get his teammates involved. 21.4 FGA's a game for a guy who doesn't even have a 45% FG is insanly high. Besides how is Melo going to win being the man when you have guys like Durant in the league who have .645 TS%... Melo isn't even close to being that talented so how is he gonna beat a guy like that? I'm betting anything Melo will leave for Houston when he become an FA.

Stunner
02-12-2014, 02:35 AM
Come on man Melo is better than Rudy lol Rudy could be do much better but he hasn't put it together for whatever reason . He's underachieving

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 02:37 AM
How is Melo going to win being the man when you have guys like Durant in the league who have .645 TS%... Melo isn't even close to being that talented so how is he gonna beat a guy like that? The only way Melo is winning is if he joins up with someone like Houston.

That's not really a fair comparison. Basically, you're saying that no team can win unless they have one of the two best players in the entire NBA. That's not really fair, and it's certainly not accurate. If you put the right pieces around Melo, the guy can and has been successful. He played on some damn good teams in Denver and a team with real potential in New York. He just hasn't had the perfect situation yet.

Is he going to find it? Probably not. It's not easy finding the perfect team, and Melo isn't the easiest guy in the world to build around because his game isn't that versatile. But I also don't buy the idea that you can't possibly build a contender with Melo as your No. 1 guy either.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-12-2014, 02:44 AM
Lowry has always had talent. :shrug:

you can say this about 90% of the players the knicks have signed.

They all had talent/great talent but Knicks were still horrible

TorontoHuskies
02-12-2014, 02:57 AM
That's not really a fair comparison. Basically, you're saying that no team can win unless they have one of the two best players in the entire NBA. That's not really fair, and it's certainly not accurate. If you put the right pieces around Melo, the guy can and has been successful. He played on some damn good teams in Denver and a team with real potential in New York. He just hasn't had the perfect situation yet.

Is he going to find it? Probably not. It's not easy finding the perfect team, and Melo isn't the easiest guy in the world to build around because his game isn't that versatile. But I also don't buy the idea that you can't possibly build a contender with Melo as your No. 1 guy either.

No, i'm saying if you don't have a top 2 player you will probably need two or three players in the top 6-25 to do it because the NBA is turning into a superteam league now. NBA needs a hard-cap to even it out or make another rule to prevent these stacked teams. For instance I think a team of Melo, Harden, and Howard could probably do it, but it's not like those players are sitting around waiting for the knicks to pick up (maybe through the draft). Basically, If Anthony can do i'll believe it when I see it but I'd bet big money that I'll never see him win as the main guy.

odiz
02-12-2014, 04:14 AM
Mmmm... I agree with you that Lowry's got a piss poor attitude more often than not, but he's playing better this season than Marbury ever played in his career. In the right situation with the right teammates, I could see him being a solid No. 2 or No. 3 for a contender. I'm just not sure that situation is in New York, which looks like it's going to implode every other week.

If you're New York and adding Lowry helps you keep Melo long-term, then you do it. But the better question is why you do it if you're Toronto. This is the most relevant the Raptors have been in years, they could finish as high as the third seed, and New York does not have the pieces to make Lowry worth the trade.

Marbury has 10 seasons better then Lowrys season this year...

BALLER R
02-12-2014, 08:57 AM
They can't change the protection on the 2016 pick. Denver gets first dibs on it due to the Carmelo Anthony trade. We get the less favorable one between Denver and New York in 2016

http://www1.******.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

even if the picks were lets say 9 and 10. Denver would choose to take the 9th and we get the 10th. Knicks left with nothing? the heck kinda organization they running over there.

BALLER R
02-12-2014, 09:01 AM
They should be blowing that team up. The pieces don't go well together. So question knick fans what if you get Lowry and both him and Melo walk?

BALLER R
02-12-2014, 09:04 AM
Isnt as bad as it looks on paper. The Knicks have more nearly $50 million dollars of cap space coming of the books after the 2014-2015 NBA season and thats not including Carmelo. (STAT $23.4M, Tyson Chandler $14.5, Andrea Bargnani $11.5M, Metta $1.6M, all come off the books after '14-'15.)

This gives the Knicks many options, whether or not they extend/trade Carmelo. The abundance of $50MM+ in expiring contracts will be extremely beneficial to the Knicks. Barring an extension, the 2015 Free Agent class is headlined by Kevin Love, Rajon Rondo, Paul Millsap, Jeff Green, Brook Lopez, Carlos Boozer, Al Jefferson, Anderson Verajoe, Monta Ellis,Roy Hibbert, Omar Asik, Jeremy Lin, Aaron Afflalo, Gerald Henderson, Marc Gasol, LaMarcus Aldridge, Luis Williams and others, all are expected to hit unrestricted Free Agency at their discretion. (Please note Kevin love, Jeff Green, Gerald Henderson, Al Jefferson, Monta Ellis, Roy Hibbert, David West have player options that they can decline to hit unrestricted Free Agency to receive a more lucrative contract)

Knicks new President & GM Steve Mills has many scenarios on the table. If they find a way to trade JR Smith who has a $6.2M Player option and Raymond Felton who has a $3.9M Player option in the 2015 NBA season they will have even more cap space. In today's NBA These are both reasonable player options that can be declined by the player or moved.

Knowing them they will still find a way to **** that up. A smart GM/owner waits patiently, instead of making drastic panic moves to please their Diva. I actually think playing in NY would appeal to some of these players I listed above.

I know many may not agree, but honestly I wouldn't even sign Carmelo instead trading him for draft picks and put yourself in position to sign 3 Max FA's!!

There's one problem with that. What makes you think free agents are lining up to become a Knick. They would need to clear that front office because the way they are currently ran players aren't going there so quick. And if they are your going to overpay for them.

effen5
02-12-2014, 09:04 AM
even if the picks were lets say 9 and 10. Denver would choose to take the 9th and we get the 10th. Knicks left with nothing? the heck kinda organization they running over there.

It's great for the rest of the league lol!!

JesusNYY_Savior
02-12-2014, 09:09 AM
look at their numbers...he's very similar just gets more time and shots

Gay Melo
FG% .457 .448
3p% .358 .414
TS% .539 .554
PPG 20.7 25.3
RPG 6.3 8.0
AST 2.9 2.8
FGA 16.3 21.4
Min 34.7 38.6

You're also leaving out PER and WS/48 where Melo has a HUGE edge. Gay is also having arguably his most efficient offensive season in three years. And I don't buy the "he's just better because he takes more shots" argument. More shots does not mean Gay would be as efficient as he is now, and it certainly doesn't mean he would be as productive as Melo. If anything, Gay is probably performing well in Sacramento because he's the secondary option now, whereas Melo is the focal point of every defense he faces as the number one option while still being the far more efficient offensive player.
Why do you keep calling Carmelo efficient? LeBron going 13-18 is efficient Carmelo going 10-24 and getting the same amount of points is not.

I Rock Shaqs
02-12-2014, 09:47 AM
ANybody outside the raptors fanbase literally has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to Lowry, all I keep hearing is he has a ****** attitude or he's selfish as hell. SHut up seriously he's been the complete opposite of selfish and been the heart of the team all season.

jon32
02-12-2014, 10:13 AM
Yah the whole attitude thing seems to be quite far off........He's been a great team player this year

Kenny Powders
02-12-2014, 10:29 AM
Don't follow basketball much, but my **** it must really, really blow to be a Knicks fan.

ghettosean
02-12-2014, 10:35 AM
ANybody outside the raptors fanbase literally has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to Lowry, all I keep hearing is he has a ****** attitude or he's selfish as hell. SHut up seriously he's been the complete opposite of selfish and been the heart of the team all season.

+1

mjqusoldier
02-12-2014, 10:35 AM
Don't follow basketball much, but my **** it must really, really blow to be a Knicks fan.
Na it's actually pretty good we won a whole lot of games last year and almost went to the ECF.. This year has been disappointing but I think well turn it around after the all star break. Just a whole lot of hate on the Knicks cuz it's Ny and ppl hate on the greatest city in the world. All good

Pierzynski4Prez
02-12-2014, 10:58 AM
Na it's actually pretty good we won a whole lot of games last year and almost went to the ECF.. This year has been disappointing but I think well turn it around after the all star break. Just a whole lot of hate on the Knicks cuz it's Ny and ppl hate on the greatest city in the world. All good

Remember that one time....

When we made it out of the 1st round. That was awesome. It's been a great 14 years.

Remember those 3 times.....

When we had a record above .500. Those were awesome. It's been a great 13 years.

I'm just playing with you man.

D-Leethal
02-12-2014, 11:20 AM
How is Melo going to win being the man when you have guys like Durant in the league who have .645 TS%... Melo isn't even close to being that talented so how is he gonna beat a guy like that? The only way Melo is winning is if he joins up with someone like Houston.

That's not really a fair comparison. Basically, you're saying that no team can win unless they have one of the two best players in the entire NBA. That's not really fair, and it's certainly not accurate. If you put the right pieces around Melo, the guy can and has been successful. He played on some damn good teams in Denver and a team with real potential in New York. He just hasn't had the perfect situation yet.

Is he going to find it? Probably not. It's not easy finding the perfect team, and Melo isn't the easiest guy in the world to build around because his game isn't that versatile. But I also don't buy the idea that you can't possibly build a contender with Melo as your No. 1 guy either.

Well said. You don't judge a contender based on the freakin TS% of its star. I mean what type og crap is that? I think Melo is very capable of being a number 1 banana/scoring option but I do think he needs a KG/Boston type who can make #1 impact in ways other than scoring. When it comes to scoring options, Melo doesn't need anyone ahead of him, he just needs the right cast of defenders, shooters, and 2nd/3rd options around him the same way Dirk did.

Bob_at_york
02-12-2014, 11:24 AM
Raptors have it a lot worse. They keep lowry, go into the playoffs and draft in the high teens. Lowry is a free agent and who knows if the raps are willing to dish out lawson curry money for lowry. they could potentially lose out on lowry and wonder if they traded him before they couldve had a chance at the lottery. If i were the knicks front office I'd give them a decent offer shump, felton, pick. If they take , then fine, if not, then so be it
so be it. I would rather the Raptors keep Lowry and make the playoffs than let him go for less than he is worth. Beyond maybe the Lakers, who is going to pay Lowry 10 mil per and force his asking price up to that range?

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 11:26 AM
Why do you keep calling Carmelo efficient? LeBron going 13-18 is efficient Carmelo going 10-24 and getting the same amount of points is not.
No. Lebron is a freak of nature whose efficiency goes beyond what 99.9% of all wing players in NBA history of capable of. Melo's averaged around a 55+ TS% in 7 out of his last 9 seasons, which is very, very good for a wing player. And the addition of a consistent, reliable 3-point shot the last two seasons has made him an even more dangerous scorer. Melo has a lot of weaknesses, but inefficiency isn't one of them.

Well said. You don't judge a contender based on the freakin TS% of its star. I mean what type og crap is that? I think Melo is very capable of being a number 1 banana/scoring option but I do think he needs a KG/Boston type who can make #1 impact in ways other than scoring. When it comes to scoring options, Melo doesn't need anyone ahead of him, he just needs the right cast of defenders, shooters, and 2nd/3rd options around him the same way Dirk did.
But even if you WERE to judge a team based on the TS% of its star, there's nothing wrong with Melo in that regard. The guy's not an inefficient scorer.

BALLER R
02-12-2014, 11:30 AM
What would you pay Lowry, would you pay him more than Derozan. Does the factor that Demar was an Allstar factor in to how much Lowry makes?

LeGacy is Music
02-12-2014, 11:36 AM
Mmmm... I agree with you that Lowry's got a piss poor attitude more often than not, but he's playing better this season than Marbury ever played in his career. In the right situation with the right teammates, I could see him being a solid No. 2 or No. 3 for a contender. I'm just not sure that situation is in New York, which looks like it's going to implode every other week.

If you're New York and adding Lowry helps you keep Melo long-term, then you do it. But the better question is why you do it if you're Toronto. This is the most relevant the Raptors have been in years, they could finish as high as the third seed, and New York does not have the pieces to make Lowry worth the trade.

I guess you don't watch basketball talking out your :speechless: with that statement. I would take a young Marbury over LOWRY any day of the week.

Cal827
02-12-2014, 11:42 AM
even if the picks were lets say 9 and 10. Denver would choose to take the 9th and we get the 10th. Knicks left with nothing? the heck kinda organization they running over there.

9 and 10. I'm hoping they finish with the first and second pick in 2016 lol :D

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 11:51 AM
I guess you don't watch basketball talking out your :speechless: with that statement. I would take a young Marbury over LOWRY any day of the week.

It depends on what numbers you look at. If you just look at basic stats, then it's hard to back up that statement, because Marbury pretty consistently put up 20/7/3/1 for a good chunk of his career. Then you look at his efficiency, shooting percentages and advanced numbers, and it paints a very different picture. Lowry may only be averaging 17/7/4/2 this year, but his 20.0 PER, .204 WS/48 and .578 TS% are all higher than Marbury ever posted in any season in his career.

I'm not saying Lowry is a better player than Marbury career-wise. It's not even close at this point. But if we're talking efficiency, Lowry's current season would have been Marbury's best by a wide margin.

Edit: And before we start with the "you just used stats, you never watched him play" argument, I watched Marbury as much as the next non-Knicks NBA fan in the 2000s. The guy was an excellent playmaker and distributor early in his career, and he could put up points in a hurry. But he was too reliant on a mediocre outside shot, he didn't get to the line enough and his attitude was a major issue.

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 12:20 PM
Why do you keep calling Carmelo efficient? LeBron going 13-18 is efficient Carmelo going 10-24 and getting the same amount of points is not.

See now you gotta make me defend him :(

Carmelo is not inefficient, he is efficient this season. The problem is he has questionable shot selections. B/c putting his efficiency vs the efficient ppg leaders in the NBA. Carmelo this season prolly for the first time in his career is equal to or better than a few.


Durant averages 3.4 mpg of the ball being in his hands, Lebron 4.7 mpg, Melo 3.4 mpg, Curry 7.1 mpg, Harden 4.5 mpg, LMA 1.9 mpg, Love 2.4 mpg

According to this stat Melo is a top scorer w/ one of the least amount of time w/ the ball in his hands in an offense.

PPT leaders goes as follows

Durant 0.47
Melo 0.39
LeBron 0.35
Curry 0.29
Harden 0.35 [bumper car offense]
LMA 0.34
Love 0.30

According to those stats, Melo averages more PPT than King James. And that puts him #2 in the NBA

Lets limit this to 1/2 court

Durant 0.57
Melo 0.51
LeBron 0.42
Curry 0.32
Harden 0.40 [bumper car offense]
LMA 0.56
Love 0.52

According to this stat, Melo is 4th in the NBA per 1/2 court possessions.

So 2nd in fullcourt, 4th in 1/2 court possessions. He's a top 5 efficient scorer. The problem is his shot selection.

Like even being a top 5 catch and shoot scorer in the league, you wonder why he gets stuck in those 1 on 1 isos [which at this point are just for show] and goes to show b/c he's actually has one of the worst pull up shot % in the league for a top scorer at 39.8%, that is 6% less than Durant and Curry.

His efg% is [49.5] that's 6th in the league top scorers in that list.

So Melo is efficient, his shot selection and choices on the court leading to the shot are not. This could be b/c of a number of things.

1. horrible coaching [dreadful offensive spacing]
2. no PG
3. poor judgement [but this could be b/c he has no PG]
4. stubborn play [he prolly wants to score off the dribble even tho it's his worst trait]

KnicksorBust
02-12-2014, 12:24 PM
I'm not touching that Lowry-Marbury comparison with a 10 foot pole...

In regards to the Knicks situation, a player like Lowry would be have been (notice I'm talking past tense)... would have been a nice addition because he would have given us consistent 2nd option scoring, another perimeter threat, and improved defense. All things we are not getting from Felton and JR Smith this year. The Knicks have a great record when Felton drops over 13ppg and shoots over 34% from 3pt. Considering Lowry is averaging 17ppg and shooting 39% from 3pt, I can only imagine how many more wins that would have translated for the Knicks.

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 12:46 PM
I'm not touching that Lowry-Marbury comparison with a 10 foot pole...

In regards to the Knicks situation, a player like Lowry would be have been (notice I'm talking past tense)... would have been a nice addition because he would have given us consistent 2nd option scoring, another perimeter threat, and improved defense. All things we are not getting from Felton and JR Smith this year. The Knicks have a great record when Felton drops over 13ppg and shoots over 34% from 3pt. Considering Lowry is averaging 17ppg and shooting 39% from 3pt, I can only imagine how many more wins that would have translated for the Knicks.

I'll give it a shot.

Marbury had 2 NBA AllStar season in 01' and 03'

In 00-01' Marbury was 10th NBA overall scoring [23.9 PPG] shot 44% from the field that year, 28% from 3PT
His PPS was 1.25, that would fall 4th among PGs.

In 02-03' Marbury was 12th NBA overall scoring [22.3 PPG] shot 44% from the field that year, 30% from 3PT, His PPS was 1.18, that would fall 7th among the top scoring PGs.

Kyle Lowry this season is #38 in overall NBA scoring. [16.7 PPG] is shooting 43% from the field, 40% from 3PT, His PPS is 1.32, that would fall 4th in the top scoring PGs.

So to shorten this debate. Marbury was better. The only thing Lowry does better is shoot the 3 ball.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 12:58 PM
I'll give it a shot.

Marbury had 2 NBA AllStar season in 01' and 03'

In 00-01' Marbury was 10th NBA overall scoring [23.9 PPG] shot 44% from the field that year, 28% from 3PT
His PPS was 1.25, that would fall 4th among PGs.

In 02-03' Marbury was 12th NBA overall scoring [22.3 PPG] shot 44% from the field that year, 30% from 3PT, His PPS was 1.18, that would fall 7th among the top scoring PGs.

Kyle Lowry this season is #38 in overall NBA scoring. [16.7 PPG] is shooting 43% from the field, 40% from 3PT, His PPS is 1.32, that would fall 4th in the top scoring PGs.

So to shorten this debate. Marbury was better. The only thing Lowry does better is shoot the 3 ball.
he's also twice the player Marbury was defensively which is why he will eclipse Marbury's career best season for win shares in about 6 weeks.

Bob_at_york
02-12-2014, 01:01 PM
I'll give it a shot.

Marbury had 2 NBA AllStar season in 01' and 03'

In 00-01' Marbury was 10th NBA overall scoring [23.9 PPG] shot 44% from the field that year, 28% from 3PT
His PPS was 1.25, that would fall 4th among PGs.

In 02-03' Marbury was 12th NBA overall scoring [22.3 PPG] shot 44% from the field that year, 30% from 3PT, His PPS was 1.18, that would fall 7th among the top scoring PGs.

Kyle Lowry this season is #38 in overall NBA scoring. [16.7 PPG] is shooting 43% from the field, 40% from 3PT, His PPS is 1.32, that would fall 4th in the top scoring PGs.

So to shorten this debate. Marbury was better. The only thing Lowry does better is shoot the 3 ball.

I am confused... isn't a higher PPS better? If Lowry has a higher PPS than Marbury's best seasons, than doesn't that disprove your theory?

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 01:16 PM
I am confused... isn't a higher PPS better? If Lowry has a higher PPS than Marbury's best seasons, than doesn't that disprove your theory?

A lot goes into PPS. Like trips to the line from what I was told. So no that doesn't necessarily mean that. But you can definitely say Lowry is the better defender.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 01:19 PM
A lot goes into PPS. Like trips to the line from what I was told. So no that doesn't necessarily mean that. But you can definitely say Lowry is the better defender.

unfortunately it does not. if you factor in free throws as possession "used up" (minus the and 1's obviously) both Lowry and Marbury came out at exactly the same number of points per shot attempt.

1.07

kind of surprised me.

mike_noodles
02-12-2014, 01:20 PM
So NY wants to give up garbage for a near all star caliber player. Big surprise. Don't do it Masai.

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 01:24 PM
unfortunately it does not. if you factor in free throws as possession "used up" (minus the and 1's obviously) both Lowry and Marbury came out at exactly the same number of points per shot attempt.

1.07

kind of surprised me.

So they are equal in productivity. Consider me mind-blown. Did you use stats inc? espn, or nba's site for this?

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 01:39 PM
So they are equal in productivity. Consider me mind-blown. Did you use stats inc? espn, or nba's site for this?

stats available on any basketball site and a calculator my friend (ok that's not true a lot of them don't have the number of And 1's like basketballreference does.)

i was only looking at Marbury's first all-star season when i compared though.

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 01:42 PM
stats available on any basketball site and a calculator my friend (ok that's not true a lot of them don't have the number of And 1's like basketballreference does.)

i was only looking at Marbury's first all-star season when i compared though.

:laugh2: ok interesting

check his last and compare it w/ Lowry this season.

Jamiecballer
02-12-2014, 01:48 PM
:laugh2: ok interesting

check his last and compare it w/ Lowry this season.

1.038, so a little less.

Marbury's efficiency is helped by a little considered equalizer. He was a master of And 1's apparently.

KniCks4LiFe
02-12-2014, 01:58 PM
1.038, so a little less.

Marbury's efficiency is helped by a little considered equalizer. He was a master of And 1's apparently.

Nice.

I figured.

Stunner
02-12-2014, 05:34 PM
http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24440515/reports-knicks-want-lowry-again-raps-have-taken-him-off-table

Bob_at_york
02-12-2014, 05:41 PM
Grevais Vasquez?

smith&wesson
02-12-2014, 05:51 PM
Lowry's a poorman's Marbury. not as crazy, a little less of a headache but still a headache, just as selfish, and not as good.

plus how's Lowry going to fit next to ball-dominant Melo?

Marbury was better in his prime for a couple seasons maybe. But he was actually a head case who never matured. Lowry has more of an all around game and gives you a bit of everything on both ends of the floor with more consistency.

Lowry right now is a leader for the raptors. . The exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Kids mature as they get older. reputations change. And he is emerging as a top 5-10 pg in the league this season.

odiz
02-12-2014, 06:22 PM
It depends on what numbers you look at. If you just look at basic stats, then it's hard to back up that statement, because Marbury pretty consistently put up 20/7/3/1 for a good chunk of his career. Then you look at his efficiency, shooting percentages and advanced numbers, and it paints a very different picture. Lowry may only be averaging 17/7/4/2 this year, but his 20.0 PER, .204 WS/48 and .578 TS% are all higher than Marbury ever posted in any season in his career.

I'm not saying Lowry is a better player than Marbury career-wise. It's not even close at this point. But if we're talking efficiency, Lowry's current season would have been Marbury's best by a wide margin.

Edit: And before we start with the "you just used stats, you never watched him play" argument, I watched Marbury as much as the next non-Knicks NBA fan in the 2000s. The guy was an excellent playmaker and distributor early in his career, and he could put up points in a hurry. But he was too reliant on a mediocre outside shot, he didn't get to the line enough and his attitude was a major issue.

Might want to check again, Marbury actually put up a PER of above 20.0 6 times in his career.

sunsfan88
02-12-2014, 06:26 PM
I thought Dolan said that he will never trade with Masai Ujiri a again because he's tired of people making fun of him for getting ripped off by Ujiri?

R. Johnson#3
02-12-2014, 06:26 PM
Lowry's a poorman's Marbury. not as crazy, a little less of a headache but still a headache, just as selfish, and not as good.

plus how's Lowry going to fit next to ball-dominant Melo?

I love when people talk directly from their ***.

mightybosstone
02-12-2014, 06:29 PM
Might want to check again, Marbury actually put up a PER of above 20.0 6 times in his career.

I stand corrected. I clearly was looking in the wrong column. But I was still right about WS, so there's at least a halfway decent argument there between that and shooting efficiency. Regardless, my point is simply that Lowry's having an exceptional season that's on par or greater than any of Starbury's seasons.