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View Full Version : Huge gap between #2 and #3. Actually, who is #3?



blahblahyoutoo
02-09-2014, 07:35 PM
I think best and 2nd best in the league are pretty much agreed upon (lebron and KD), although order is up for debate.

after that, the level of talent drops off enormously. no one even comes close to those two.
who is your 3rd best player in the league?

tredigs
02-09-2014, 07:39 PM
CP3, Curry, Love, PG, Griffin and Anthony Davis would probably be the next group. CP3's brilliant and easily up there when he's firing on all cylinders. Homer in me takes Curry this season though.

holditdown
02-09-2014, 07:41 PM
George or Aldridge.

BHF
02-09-2014, 07:44 PM
George or Aldridge.

more like 6-7 or 7-8

sixer04fan
02-09-2014, 07:44 PM
1) Lebron
2) KD
3) PG
4) CP3
5) Love
6) Curry
7) LA
8) Davis
8) Westbrook
9) Harden
10) I don't know... Could be like Griffin, Melo, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Dirk, or others...

In my opinion... But it's crazy that after 2, they're all so close. Wouldn't argue with anyone who wants to swap around that order. If you have Curry, Love, CP, or anyone else at 3, I have no problem with that.

I love how young the top players in the league right now are. Great sign for the league.

tredigs
02-09-2014, 07:52 PM
I can't consider a big with a 51.6% TS who isn't a defensive anchor in any top 3 talks myself.

Miltstar
02-09-2014, 07:53 PM
My vote would go to Dwight Howard ... might not be a popular pick but I think its gotta be him. CP3 and AD would be next on my list

Stunner
02-09-2014, 07:54 PM
Three man race between Curry / PG / Paul I'm gonna go with Curry so far this year .

Jets012
02-09-2014, 07:55 PM
CP3 and it's not even close. Dude was putting up crazy #s before he got injured. Honestly if he didn't get injured and kept his play up, he would have every right to be right up with LBJ and Durant for MVP.

Of course since this is PSD, Paul George will likely get the majority of people's posts as well as LMA. Hell I even think Dwight has an argument after Paul as the best player. Outside of LBJ and Durant, I'd take Dwight to lead mediocre teammates far. He's done in it the past, and if it wasn't for his childish behavior most people would agree.

Stunner
02-09-2014, 07:59 PM
IMO Curry has been the best PG this year but Paul isn't far I just feel Curry is having a better year .

tredigs
02-09-2014, 08:01 PM
Highly debatable if Dwight's even the best player on his team. I'd be curious to see Rockets fans take on that. I'd have 'em both on the backside of the top 10, Harden slightly above.

Bostonjorge
02-09-2014, 08:02 PM
So far this season u can say George is playing like #3 but in that case Durant is #1 and James is #2. Saying lebron is better then Durant then cp3 is better then George. Love also has better numbers then George but winning is the key factor. Pacers are winning with team play with George being the best player on the team. Once the playoffs start and the pacers beat Miami is anyone going to say George is better then James?

dalton749
02-09-2014, 08:05 PM
i dont see all the george love
i guess i havent seen much from him other than when hes played toronto this year and ross had him on lock both games

Dade County
02-09-2014, 08:07 PM
Should of made a poll..

3. Cp3
4. Love
WestBrook
Howard
Aldridge
Melo
Curry
Harden
Griffin
Paul George
Wade
Tony Parker



I forgot... this is psd.

If Gm's had to start picking star players and there was no other player on their roster (after KD & Lbj go 1 & 2).

Love
Westbrook
Rose... (star power & blah blah blah)
Howard
Cp3
Curry (not necessarily better but, I can see Gm's picking him over PG easy)
Anthony Davis
Griffin (star power, and he is blossoming :)

And I see Harden and George as a toss up between each other, one is a better offensive players and the other excels at defense.

Jamiecballer
02-09-2014, 08:10 PM
George or Aldridge.

yikes... George or Aldridge?

George is great but Aldridge, not so much.

I vote CP3 although it's possible someone real obvious is just escaping me at the moment.

Jamiecballer
02-09-2014, 08:12 PM
I can't consider a big with a 51.6% TS who isn't a defensive anchor in any top 3 talks myself.

to hell with top 3. top 20 is a stretch IMO.

blahblahyoutoo
02-09-2014, 08:14 PM
1) Lebron
2) KD
3) PG
4) CP3
5) Love
6) Curry
7) LA
8) Davis
8) Westbrook
9) Harden
10) I don't know... Could be like Griffin, Melo, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Dirk, or others...

In my opinion... But it's crazy that after 2, they're all so close. Wouldn't argue with anyone who wants to swap around that order. If you have Curry, Love, CP, or anyone else at 3, I have no problem with that.

I love how young the top players in the league right now are. Great sign for the league.

has there ever been a time where the talent gap between 2 and 3 were this huge?

xxplayerxx23
02-09-2014, 08:15 PM
I have Paul then curry then George then Davis

Dade County
02-09-2014, 08:17 PM
i dont see all the george love
i guess i havent seen much from him other than when hes played toronto this year and ross had him on lock both games

He isn't even a top 5 player, but the media hype has brain wash the majority... So this is the outcome; if Gm's had there choice of players, he would be picked somewhere after 7 (do to talent or star power/endorsement deals).

Minimal
02-09-2014, 08:30 PM
People stop with George, don't make another James Harden of him. Guy is shooting only 44% from the field, not even in top 20 in PER. For me CP3 kinda rolled of, he is not playing as good as he used too and his impact is questionable.
For me nr 3 is either Kevin Love or kill it for me but DeMarcus Cousins. Dude is 25.5/13/3/2 per 36 minutes, great defender, clearly leads his team in defensive rating, unfortunately his team sucks. So I take Cousins over Love as 3rd best, because he makes a big impact on defensive end. Just lol that noone even mentioned him in this thread.

albertajaysfan
02-09-2014, 08:32 PM
If I had to choose who would be the next player I would want to build around I take Anthony Davis. That kid is going to be someone we all talk about for a long time.

His impact on a seriously injury depleted team is unreal. Would love for this kid to work with Hakeem. I think he has a high enough skill level to really be able to learn from the Dream.

albertajaysfan
02-09-2014, 08:33 PM
People stop with George, don't make another James Harden of him. Guy is shooting only 44% from the field, not even in top 20 in PER. For me CP3 kinda rolled of, he is not playing as good as he used too and his impact is questionable.
For me nr 3 is either Kevin Love or kill it for me but DeMarcus Cousins. Dude is 25/13/3 per 36 minutes, great defender, clearly leads his team in defensive rating, unfortunately his team sucks. So I take Cousins over Love as 3rd best, because he makes a big impact on defensive end.

Funny I was debating between the Brow and Boogie.

Dade County
02-09-2014, 08:35 PM
People stop with George, don't make another James Harden of him. Guy is shooting only 44% from the field, not even in top 20 in PER. For me CP3 kinda rolled of, he is not playing as good as he used too and his impact is questionable.
For me nr 3 is either Kevin Love or kill it for me but DeMarcus Cousins. Dude is 25/13/3 per 36 minutes, great defender, clearly leads his team in defensive rating, unfortunately his team sucks. So I take Cousins over Love as 3rd best, because he makes a big impact on defensive end. Just lol that noone even mentioned him in this thread.

On the money.

KnicksorBust
02-09-2014, 08:36 PM
Its a healthy CP3 and to me that isnt debatable either.

Burkey3472
02-09-2014, 08:46 PM
CP3. It's been the same 1,2,3 the last few years with Lebron, KD, and CP3 IMO.

True Sports Fan
02-09-2014, 08:53 PM
People stop with George, don't make another James Harden of him. Guy is shooting only 44% from the field, not even in top 20 in PER. For me CP3 kinda rolled of, he is not playing as good as he used too and his impact is questionable.
For me nr 3 is either Kevin Love or kill it for me but DeMarcus Cousins. Dude is 25.5/13/3/2 per 36 minutes, great defender, clearly leads his team in defensive rating, unfortunately his team sucks. So I take Cousins over Love as 3rd best, because he makes a big impact on defensive end. Just lol that noone even mentioned him in this thread. First non Kings fan to call boogie a great defender. I think he is up there though

holditdown
02-09-2014, 10:03 PM
I can't consider a big with a 51.6% TS who isn't a defensive anchor in any top 3 talks myself.

This makes sense, but you I consider the Blazers record and the fact that they are holding their own in the West. His play is clearly translating to winning.

Miltstar
02-09-2014, 10:06 PM
Funny I was debating between the Brow and Boogie.

Can you imagine Cousins and Davis on the same team?? That would be a freakin dynasty for ya!! Lebron/Wade would be trumped

DreamShaker
02-09-2014, 10:19 PM
Highly debatable if Dwight's even the best player on his team. I'd be curious to see Rockets fans take on that. I'd have 'em both on the backside of the top 10, Harden slightly above.

He's been playing like it since January. He looks more athletic,and his post game actually look really good. It was garbage earlier this year. Also hitting his free throws. And blocking more shots. Looking like an MVP candidate again.

JasonJohnHorn
02-09-2014, 10:21 PM
CP3. And easily in my opinion.

Davis will be up there soon.

holditdown
02-09-2014, 10:24 PM
CP3. And easily in my opinion.

Davis will be up there soon.

He needs to start elevating his team.

jacquewho?
02-09-2014, 10:29 PM
CP3 IMO has the lead, but Paul George, Curry, Kevin Love, and Dwight Howard are all up there.

I'm loving the young guns making a run for superstar status.

setman2000
02-09-2014, 10:33 PM
It's ridiculous that a player like Melo gets paid the same as KD and LBJ. Owners need to stop maxing out the 2nd tier players.

tredigs
02-09-2014, 10:38 PM
He's been playing like it since January. He looks more athletic,and his post game actually look really good. It was garbage earlier this year. Also hitting his free throws. And blocking more shots. Looking like an MVP candidate again.
Roger that Dream. I have noticed his gradual improvement too; makes them scarier for sure.


This makes sense, but you I consider the Blazers record and the fact that they are holding their own in the West. His play is clearly translating to winning.
He's a very quality player and a great/important fit for their offense, but he's been on the team for 8 years. What I attribute the most to their winning is their absurd 3pt shooting from Lillard/Matthews/Batum and bringing in Lopez to have a defensive anchor (he's played much better than I would've expected. Big add for 'em). I have LMA in the tier below Love and AD personally.

albertajaysfan
02-09-2014, 10:45 PM
Can you imagine Cousins and Davis on the same team?? That would be a freakin dynasty for ya!! Lebron/Wade would be trumped

Bigs running the floor all over the place.

Just picture them throwing oops to each other :drool:

Cracka2HI!
02-09-2014, 10:59 PM
I think it's not that hard for 3. It's CP3. However I think you can make a case that Blake will be the best player on the Clippers by the end of the year.

Cracka2HI!
02-09-2014, 11:00 PM
Just I post that he gets hurt, my worst nightmare.

Jamiecballer
02-09-2014, 11:17 PM
This makes sense, but you I consider the Blazers record and the fact that they are holding their own in the West. His play is clearly translating to winning.

wow, there's a false correlation. did you even consider looking at play of the other players, the complete and total lack of injuries, and the relatively soft schedule when you came to that conclusion?

blahblahyoutoo
02-09-2014, 11:32 PM
I think it's not that hard for 3. It's CP3. However I think you can make a case that Blake will be the best player on the Clippers by the end of the year.

if it were this easy, we wouldn't have so many different opinions in this thread.

1 and 2 are the easy ones. 3, not so much.

ManRam
02-09-2014, 11:39 PM
I still firmly believe it's CP3.

BklynKnicks3
02-09-2014, 11:39 PM
Melo is easily top 3 or 4 people need help lmao

KniCks4LiFe
02-09-2014, 11:46 PM
I'd say Paul George and then Steph Curry.

Bruno
02-10-2014, 12:11 AM
love how the miami fans don't like george.

chi-townlove1
02-10-2014, 12:27 AM
No hate and maybe excuse the ignorance, but my god psd blows Anthony Davis. He's GOOD. not great, yet. How can anyone even say he's a top 10 player in this league yet. Give it a few years before taking him over so many other established players. Like all you people saying Davis over love, Aldridge, and Dwight in big men alone, just crazy.

chi-townlove1
02-10-2014, 12:29 AM
Right now top 7 is pretty easily Lebron, durant, George, Paul, Steph curry, Carmelo, and Kevin love. There literally is no debating that.

BoSox47
02-10-2014, 12:55 AM
My vote would go to Dwight Howard ... might not be a popular pick but I think its gotta be him. CP3 and AD would be next on my list

i would take k love before howard any day

Master Mind
02-10-2014, 01:22 AM
For me it's either Curry, CP3, K Love, Griffin or Melo (I'm leaning Curry)...Harden, Aldridge, George, Davis etc. fall in the third tier.

todu82
02-10-2014, 01:23 AM
It's a real horse race for #3 that's for sure. I have George and CP3 as the top contenders for #3.

Master Mind
02-10-2014, 01:25 AM
It's ridiculous that a player like Melo gets paid the same as KD and LBJ. Owners need to stop maxing out the 2nd tier players.

I like Melo :shrug:

He's worth it imo

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 01:36 AM
Blake is having a far more dominant stretch than CP3 has yet to have in a Clippers uniform. Don't care what metrics say... current version of Blake Griffin>>>CP3. FAR more consistent and dominant. If CP3 isn't the best player on his team, how is he 3rd? I have Griffin or Curry at 3rd, CP3 at 4th or 5th.

tredigs
02-10-2014, 01:36 AM
No hate and maybe excuse the ignorance, but my god psd blows Anthony Davis. He's GOOD. not great, yet. How can anyone even say he's a top 10 player in this league yet. Give it a few years before taking him over so many other established players. Like all you people saying Davis over love, Aldridge, and Dwight in big men alone, just crazy.

What would AD have to do for you to consider him among the best bigs, just play more years? I don't subscribe to that. He's a 20/10 big who scores on solid efficiency and plays very good D - leading the league in blocks by a large margin and is top 10 in PER/WS-48/WinsProduced. That's the production of a top tier big.

tredigs
02-10-2014, 01:37 AM
Right now top 7 is pretty easily Lebron, durant, George, Paul, Steph curry, Carmelo, and Kevin love. There literally is no debating that.

lmfao

Master Mind
02-10-2014, 01:41 AM
Blake is having a far more dominant stretch than CP3 has yet to have in a Clippers uniform. Don't care what metrics say... current version of Blake Griffin>>>CP3. FAR more consistent and dominant. If CP3 isn't the best player on his team, how is he 3rd? I have Griffin or Curry at 3rd, CP3 at 4th or 5th.

Griffin is killing it for real

xxplayerxx23
02-10-2014, 01:42 AM
Looking it over it's probably Paul, curry, George,Blake Davis, melo,love, harden, Dwight something in that range. Blake griffin is not more valuable then Paul, I'm sorry but no way.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 01:57 AM
As somebody who's missed 3 games this year I disagree. Blake the last 35 games>> CP3 and it doesn't look like it's slowing down. Take away his mediocre first month of the season and statistically they are comparable. Blake is up to 24//10/4 about on 60% TS and his WS/48, PER and ORTG are at INSANE numbers the last two months, rivaling CP3.

I'm talking an ORTG of 122 the last 20 games last I saw.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 02:01 AM
Blake dropped 26/11/6 tonight in under 25 minutes BTW.

Cracka2HI!
02-10-2014, 02:10 AM
CF86 isn't lying this time. He's playing better than I ever thought he would. I think he's more valuable than CP3 and CP3 knows that. Who's better? Can't say Blake yet, but he's as much in the covno for #3 as CP3 IMO. I mean the Clippers had a 56 point lead over an NBA team tonight. Most Clipper fans have always thought this needed to be Blake's team for us to be real contenders. Well it look like it's happening.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 02:14 AM
Everybody from CP3 himself, Matt Barnes, Jamal Crawford, Jared Dudley to coaching staff have consistently called Blake the teams best and or more important player. Paul deserves more respect because of his playoff success but RIGHT NOW Blake is better. I also expect Blake to shut everybody up come playoff time.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 02:22 AM
In other words I'm agreeing with your post Cracka. As you said... what most didn't think would happen IS happening. I'm just ecstatic to say that in 3 years we went from lottery to having arguably two top 5 players and a shot at the title in the coming years.

I am slightly resentful towards everybody who turned on Blake and said his potential was maxed out and that he was declining.

BklynKnicks3
02-10-2014, 09:54 AM
3 melo, 4,cp3(they are close cp3 missed to much time to be 3rd 5. Curry

chi-townlove1
02-10-2014, 11:09 AM
Right now top 7 is pretty easily Lebron, durant, George, Paul, Steph curry, Carmelo, and Kevin love. There literally is no debating that.

lmfao

You find something funny? It doesn't seem like I'm alone in the sense that on any given day these 7 guys compete for the best players in the league.

pebloemer
02-10-2014, 11:32 AM
It's ridiculous that a player like Melo gets paid the same as KD and LBJ.
Owners need to stop maxing out the 2nd tier players.

There's not an abundant amount of them to go around. You pay what you need to to keep the player. The ridiculous thing is that LeBron and Durant can't make more than players like Melo.

Baller1
02-10-2014, 11:58 AM
If I can have one player on my team not named KD or Lebron, I'm taking Blake Griffin.

blahblahyoutoo
02-10-2014, 12:06 PM
Blake is having a far more dominant stretch than CP3 has yet to have in a Clippers uniform. Don't care what metrics say... current version of Blake Griffin>>>CP3. FAR more consistent and dominant. If CP3 isn't the best player on his team, how is he 3rd? I have Griffin or Curry at 3rd, CP3 at 4th or 5th.

if clippers have 2 top 5 players on their team, how come they're not doing better? :D

Baller1
02-10-2014, 12:08 PM
if clippers have 2 top 5 players on their team, how come they're not doing better? :D

Injuries.

I think there's a solid 40% chance the Clippers come out of the West barring injuries, they're a fantastically built squad.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 01:58 PM
if clippers have 2 top 5 players on their team, how come they're not doing better? :D

You know we've had a starter out at pretty much all times right? CP3 for 19 games, Redick for 25, Barnes for 17. No other team in the entire NBA has had such a rotating door on injuries to key players. The Clippers are the 4th best team in the NBA according to SRS rating and differential and are within striking distance of the 2 and 3 seeds in the cutthroat west. In fact if the Thunder beat the Blazers today and we beat them Wednesday, we have the 3 seed, possibly 2 depending on what happens with the Spurs/Rockets.

Chronz
02-10-2014, 02:05 PM
CP3: Elite efficiency on both ends, hard to beat that 2-way impact.

After that, the field has narrowed, Curry, Blake, Love, Davis and Im prolly forgetting someone but its definitely NOT Melo.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 02:15 PM
CP3: Elite efficiency on both ends, hard to beat that 2-way impact.

After that, the field has narrowed, Curry, Blake, Love, Davis and Im prolly forgetting someone but its definitely NOT Melo.

Chronz what's the best stat to use for defense IYO? Blake and CP3 have the same defensive rating, but I know that stat is frowned upon by most of the stat guys here. Not saying Blake is the better defender, just asking what the best way to come to a conclusion is.

My PERSONAL reason on why Blake>CP3 right now is because Blake's OFFENSE has become so dominant. He's scoring 25-30 in his sleep on elite efficiency without playing big minutes. 24 ppg on 60% TS, on just 16.5 shots per game and in 36 minutes! That's WITH that very subpar first month we've talked about before. If you remove that opening 20 games or so.. he's at like 27 ppg on 61% TS I believe.

Phenom1
02-10-2014, 02:22 PM
You know we've had a starter out at pretty much all times right? CP3 for 19 games, Redick for 25, Barnes for 17. No other team in the entire NBA has had such a rotating door on injuries to key players. The Clippers are the 4th best team in the NBA according to SRS rating and differential and are within striking distance of the 2 and 3 seeds in the cutthroat west. In fact if the Thunder beat the Blazers today and we beat them Wednesday, we have the 3 seed, possibly 2 depending on what happens with the Spurs/Rockets.


UH Lakers says hi. The Lakers literally have players injured the whole season so don't even complain about injuries. And Barnes isn't really a starter. I still think CP3 is better, people are just thinking Blake is better because CP3 had been injured.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 02:34 PM
UH Lakers says hi. The Lakers literally have players injured the whole season so don't even complain about injuries. And Barnes isn't really a starter. I still think CP3 is better, people are just thinking Blake is better because CP3 had been injured.

Barnes was starting over Dudley the last 10 games or so and at worst is a very key role guy. Even without injuries the Lakers would be a low playoff seed at ABSOLUTE BEST most likely, given that Kobe is coming off the worst injury a basketball player can ever have. If you meant to say Redick isn't a starter, you are dead wrong. He's having a career year and is arguably as important as anybody in our offensive system. More importantly than bringing up injuries to a lotto team like the Lakers... let's say no other CONTENDER in the NBA has had the injury problems of the Clippers.

To still be the 4th best statistical team in the NBA deserves major props, not questioning. Nevermind that the first 1.5 months the schedule was brutal and now it has been and will continue to be cake in comparison. Given how easy and home heavy our schedule gets.. I won't be surprised if the team closes out as strong as the Nuggets did last year and ends up at the 1-2 seed if they remain healthy.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 02:36 PM
Blake Griffin's last 10 games: 30 ppg, 9 rpg, 4 apg on 58 percent shooting. When he was a rookie I said his absolute best case scenario of a prime year was likely something like 26 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg with improved D. Maybe he can score even more than that eventually. Would be amazing to be a PF not named Dirk and be a threat to lead the NBA in scoring off a dominant post game. Hasn't been done by a big who plays in the deep post since prime Shaq.

Chronz
02-10-2014, 02:36 PM
Chronz what's the best stat to use for defense IYO? Blake and CP3 have the same defensive rating, but I know that stat is frowned upon by most of the stat guys here. Not saying Blake is the better defender, just asking what the best way to come to a conclusion is.

My PERSONAL reason on why Blake>CP3 right now is because Blake's OFFENSE has become so dominant. He's scoring 25-30 in his sleep on elite efficiency without playing big minutes. 24 ppg on 60% TS, on just 16.5 shots per game and in 36 minutes! That's WITH that very subpar first month we've talked about before. If you remove that opening 20 games or so.. he's at like 27 ppg on 61% TS I believe.

There is no definitive stat, all we can look at is RAPM, Counterpart data (synergy), rim protection rates. DRTG is just a nice way of capsulizing stls+blks+d-reb+teamD. Its nothing conclusive just like high block/stl guys arent always good defenders.

If you take this literally then RIGHT NOW, CP3 is fresh off an injury and Blake is riding the best stretch of his career, I dont completely ignore the past, and ignoring that slow start entirely isn't my cup of tea. His slow start cost us in the standings and now his stretch without CP3 has saved us, it all averages out. These are typically the highs and lows of a players season, which is why I dont get too excited by the ups or too upset with the downs. Though I prefer when players peak later in the season, I try to keep the overall picture in perspective. Blake has had the best stretch of play outside of Durant/Bron this year, that stretch is likely to come with a drop the same way it is/was for Durant and Bron in the past. Obviously, I hope he doesn't and he maintains this groove but its still the complete body of work that matters, the playoffs will determine more as well and Blake is finally looking like he has the skillset for it to translate but even just looking at overall regular season performance, Blake has yet to have CP3's impact.

Chronz
02-10-2014, 02:38 PM
UH Lakers says hi. The Lakers literally have players injured the whole season so don't even complain about injuries. And Barnes isn't really a starter. I still think CP3 is better, people are just thinking Blake is better because CP3 had been injured.
Im not seeing why he cant complain about legitimate injuries. Lakers are a bad team that has suffered injuries, Clippers are a great team despite injuries. Both are facts, its also a fact that both teams would be better if they were completely healthy, that holds true for everyone, the difference is that the Clippers are an elite team while the Lakers have middling talent.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 02:44 PM
There is no definitive stat, all we can look at is RAPM, Counterpart data (synergy), rim protection rates. DRTG is just a nice way of capsulizing stls+blks+d-reb+teamD. Its nothing conclusive just like high block/stl guys arent always good defenders.

If you take this literally then RIGHT NOW, CP3 is fresh off an injury and Blake is riding the best stretch of his career, I dont completely ignore the past, and ignoring that slow start entirely isn't my cup of tea. His slow start cost us in the standings and now his stretch without CP3 has saved us, it all averages out. These are typically the highs and lows of a players season, which is why I dont get too excited by the ups or too upset with the downs. Though I prefer when players peak later in the season, I try to keep the overall picture in perspective. Blake has had the best stretch of play outside of Durant/Bron this year, that stretch is likely to come with a drop the same way it is/was for Durant and Bron in the past. Obviously, I hope he doesn't and he maintains this groove but its still the complete body of work that matters, the playoffs will determine more as well and Blake is finally looking like he has the skillset for it to translate but even just looking at overall regular season performance, Blake has yet to have CP3's impact.

I agree it's vital to look at a whole body of work and not just stretches. Although in Blake's case we are talking about a 35+ game run. I believe it's more that a switch went off in his head, because the sample seems way too big to be merely a good stretch. As you said and myself and Cracka said yesterday, how Blake performs this year in the playoffs is going to be the deciding factor. If he maintains the current domination come playof time, most people will likely label him our best player. If CP3 is once again the only dominant playoff performer, people will rightfully criticize Blake (I will too).

I see. So DRTG is basically the raw, surface level stats. Do you have the RAPM numbers for Blake vs CP3 defensively? I don't know how to do it.

Phenom1
02-10-2014, 02:53 PM
Barnes was starting over Dudley the last 10 games or so and at worst is a very key role guy. Even without injuries the Lakers would be a low playoff seed at ABSOLUTE BEST most likely, given that Kobe is coming off the worst injury a basketball player can ever have. If you meant to say Redick isn't a starter, you are dead wrong. He's having a career year and is arguably as important as anybody in our offensive system. More importantly than bringing up injuries to a lotto team like the Lakers... let's say no other CONTENDER in the NBA has had the injury problems of the Clippers.

To still be the 4th best statistical team in the NBA deserves major props, not questioning. Nevermind that the first 1.5 months the schedule was brutal and now it has been and will continue to be cake in comparison. Given how easy and home heavy our schedule gets.. I won't be surprised if the team closes out as strong as the Nuggets did last year and ends up at the 1-2 seed if they remain healthy.


haha yea sorry I'm just really pissed off with all the Lakers injuries. No, I meant Barnes cuz u said he was a starter. I absolutely love Redick and his shooting.

Chronz
02-10-2014, 03:02 PM
I agree it's vital to look at a whole body of work and not just stretches. Although in Blake's case we are talking about a 35+ game run. I believe it's more that a switch went off in his head, because the sample seems way too big to be merely a good stretch. As you said and myself and Cracka said yesterday, how Blake performs this year in the playoffs is going to be the deciding factor. If he maintains the current domination come playof time, most people will likely label him our best player. If CP3 is once again the only dominant playoff performer, people will rightfully criticize Blake (I will too).
I dont care for labels, just performance. Loving the current pace, just stay healthy.



I see. So DRTG is basically the raw, surface level stats. Do you have the RAPM numbers for Blake vs CP3 defensively? I don't know how to do it.
Its a +/- stat that pretty much only hardcore mathheads can run so I dont know either. But I do know they wouldn't be very useful given the small sample size (you need years here) and by then, the player may no longer be the same guy (this is the main problem in defensive stats).

I can show you how Blake has fared over the years and IIRC, there was a decent upward trajectory that depicts an improving defender (consistent with his other defensive stats), but looking solely at this year, I will need to scrounge up some old links. Ill see what I can find.

Cracka2HI!
02-10-2014, 06:39 PM
In other words I'm agreeing with your post Cracka. As you said... what most didn't think would happen IS happening. I'm just ecstatic to say that in 3 years we went from lottery to having arguably two top 5 players and a shot at the title in the coming years.

I am slightly resentful towards everybody who turned on Blake and said his potential was maxed out and that he was declining.

I clown you from time to time, but I'll give your due on this one. You take a lot of crap for so called "d riding" Blake. Well that kind of looks like spot on predictions that have been consistent for years now. I have to admit I thought we may get a Blake Griffin that looks something like this by the time he was 27-28. I just didn't think he had THIS much game. I mean point out a weakness in game right now. There isn't one. He's dominating every game and literally getting better every night. I refuse to ever get to optimistic about the Clipps but Blake has definitely given us many reasons to be optimistic.

Clippersfan86
02-10-2014, 07:57 PM
Yea I understand why people get frustrated with me for sure. I see something special in certain players and will defend them to the point of mild delusion at times. When you think about it though most of my predictions are true.

1. I said Crawford would be great when most Clippers fans hated the signing and wanted Ray Allen.

2. I said Bledsoe would be a star since his rookie year and got clowned nonstop. Statistically he's arguably a top 5 PG this year and looks like a future all star.

3. I consistently preached just HOW much Vinny was holding the team back and most thought I was exaggerating.

4. As you said from day 1 I said Blake would be an all time great and top 5 player in the future.

In general I've been more right than wrong with my Clippers predictions, many times as the minority opinion.

Baller1
02-11-2014, 12:37 AM
Yea I understand why people get frustrated with me for sure. I see something special in certain players and will defend them to the point of mild delusion at times. When you think about it though most of my predictions are true.

1. I said Crawford would be great when most Clippers fans hated the signing and wanted Ray Allen.

2. I said Bledsoe would be a star since his rookie year and got clowned nonstop. Statistically he's arguably a top 5 PG this year and looks like a future all star.

3. I consistently preached just HOW much Vinny was holding the team back and most thought I was exaggerating.

4. As you said from day 1 I said Blake would be an all time great and top 5 player in the future.

In general I've been more right than wrong with my Clippers predictions, many times as the minority opinion.

As a Seahawks fan, I feel your pain. Even when you're right, you're wrong.

mrblisterdundee
02-11-2014, 01:53 AM
Chris Paul's fairly close to Durant and James in terms of production, so I wouldn't count him out so quickly. He just needs to get into the swing of things again.
Paul George is on a contender that averages fewer than 99 points per game and includes two starters who rebound more than him, so of course he's not going to have as many points, assists or rebounds as James and Durant.
And finally, guys like Kevin Love and Anthony Davis are huge producers on crappy teams, so they're not even on an even playing field when it comes to an MVP race.

Hawkeye15
02-11-2014, 02:20 AM
Paul easily.

Love
Curry

those are the other 2 that come to mind

Hawkeye15
02-11-2014, 02:21 AM
Chris Paul's fairly close to Durant and James in terms of production, so I wouldn't count him out so quickly. He just needs to get into the swing of things again.
Paul George is on a contender that averages fewer than 99 points per game and includes two starters who rebound more than him, so of course he's not going to have as many points, assists or rebounds as James and Durant.
And finally, guys like Kevin Love and Anthony Davis are huge producers on crappy teams, so they're not even on an even playing field when it comes to an MVP race.

Imagine how horrific their teams would be without their contributions..

tredigs
02-11-2014, 02:35 AM
I will say that excluding contracts and anything else non basketball related, if the Clippers offered Cp3 to the Warriors for Curry for the next 2 seasons knowing both would return directly after, I think the deal is immediately rejected by the Warriors. And as a fan, I'd hope it would be. I don't think he could handle Curry's load offensively. I'm not sure about their end.

numba1CHANGsta
02-11-2014, 02:50 AM
It's CP3 and it isn't even close

Clippersfan86
02-11-2014, 02:59 AM
Tre we shouldn't confuse better for trade value. I doubt CP3 could handle Curry's load but also doubt Curry could handle the Clippers roster as well either. We can say that about most superstar PG's right now.

tredigs
02-11-2014, 03:21 AM
Tre who still.has more upside or room to grow as a player? Griffin or Curry?

That's a pretty tough one to answer. Both are similar in the points of their career and their increased role this season (and each are handling it very well). Curry could grow quite a bit as a floor general and in continuing to increase his defensive knowledge which he should over the next few years. Blake's at his athletic peak in a type of game that relies on his athleticism quite a bit (should stay here for a few more years), but as you know there are plenty of other reasons why he excels. If he continues to develop that mid range game and can get it near automatic ala Malone, then it's going to open up a broader dimension to his attacking and passing (in drive and dishes if they over commit on the 15 foot set shot) game as well.

But tough one for me to answer one way or the other.

blahblahyoutoo
02-11-2014, 11:44 AM
Chris Paul's fairly close to Durant and James in terms of production, so I wouldn't count him out so quickly. He just needs to get into the swing of things again.
Paul George is on a contender that averages fewer than 99 points per game and includes two starters who rebound more than him, so of course he's not going to have as many points, assists or rebounds as James and Durant.
And finally, guys like Kevin Love and Anthony Davis are huge producers on crappy teams, so they're not even on an even playing field when it comes to an MVP race.

i would not consider cp3 anywhere close to the level of james and durant.
those two can take lottery teams to contention. cp3 barely gets teams to the playoffs and are 1st round exits. not his fault though, non-volume scoring PG's can't really carry teams as much as wings and bigs.

Walt
02-11-2014, 12:48 PM
1a) Kevin Durant
1b) LeBron James
3) Chris Paul
4) Stephen Curry
5) Paul George
6) Anthony Davis
7) Kevin Love
8) Russell Westbrook
9) LaMarcus Aldridge
10) Blake Griffin/Dirk Nowitzki

I think James Harden is a star, but he is incredibly overrated. Top 15 player but shouldn't be in anyone's top 10. I put Dirk in there because he is 35 and is still carrying the Mavs towards another 50 win season. The numbers are down but he's narrowly missing a 50/40/90 season.

b@llhog24
02-11-2014, 01:03 PM
Harden is better than LMA or Westbrook. In any case the answer is CP3.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
02-11-2014, 01:23 PM
Chris Paul was the MVP until he got injured. Since the injury Durant went on a tear, and IMO ran away with the MVP award. So CP is 3 to me easy.

I'm obviously the only person who thinks Melo is better then George, Love, Dwight, Curry, LMA, Davis.

One guy even had Melo on the same side as Blake Griffin, Wade, Dirk and Kobe. This forum frustrates me more then Flappy Bird.

Walt
02-11-2014, 01:36 PM
Chris Paul was the MVP until he got injured. Since the injury Durant went on a tear, and IMO ran away with the MVP award. So CP is 3 to me easy.

I'm obviously the only person who thinks Melo is better then George, Love, Dwight, Curry, LMA, Davis.

One guy even had Melo on the same side as Blake Griffin, Wade, Dirk and Kobe. This forum frustrates me more then Flappy Bird.

Kobe and Wade, I get your beef.

But Dirk and Griffin isn't a problem at all. Have you seen Griffin as of late? Losing Paul of course gave so much room for him to dominate more but he was spectacular. Dirk on the other hand, I get he's 35, but he is carrying a team with a core of Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter and Samuel Dalembert to only 1 game out of 6th in the West. His efficiency is still off the charts and he is just microscopic percentage points away from 50/40/90.

I have been an avid Melo basher for many good reasons but I even have to admit, he has been damn impressive this season, especially on the rebounding side. Dirk, Carmelo and Griffin are all in the 10-15 range imo.

valade16
02-11-2014, 01:52 PM
Harden is better than LMA or Westbrook. In any case the answer is CP3.

On offense definitely, but I don't think Harden is as good as people seem to think he is because his defense is possibly the worst I've ever seen from a star player. And people like to say it's because he doesn't try, and that is true he certainly doesn't try, but even when he tries it is atrocious.

What's the point of shooting .590 TS% when you allow your opponent to shoot .600 TS%...

Clippersfan86
02-11-2014, 03:58 PM
I think Aldridge is very overhyped and even then no way is Harden better this year. His defense is so bad in comparison that his edge in efficiency can't make up for it IMO.

Clippersfan86
02-11-2014, 04:07 PM
Let me repeat Griffin is averaging 30/9/4.5on elite efficiency the last 10 games. In the last 20 it's 28/9.3/4. In the last 35 games he's averaging 26/10/4 on over 60 percent TS. Statistically he's top 5... so to say 10-15 is dumb. He was 10-15 his first 3 years.

smith&wesson
02-11-2014, 04:45 PM
1st tier: Lebron,Durant,Cp3, Rose (healthy), Kobe (healthy)

2nd tier: George, Harden, Love, Curry, Griffin, Westbrook,Howard,Cousins, Davis, M.Gasol,Melo,Parker, Aldridge, Wade, Dirk,

3rd tier: Milsap, Lillard, Dragic, Wall, Hibbert,Lee,Noah, Bledso,Duncan,Iggy, Deng, Rondo, Derozan, Gay, Josh Smith, Ellis, Lowry, Irving, Batum, Afflalo,B. Lopez Sanders, Monroe, Hayword, Joe Johnson, Tyson chandler

Dont know where to rank these guys but they are my honourable mentions.

D.will, MCW, beal K thompson, parsons, burke, J.butler, t.thompson, e.turner,thad young, oladipo, hawes, e.gordon, t.evans, Pierce, t.harris, i.thomas. varajao, d.jordan, d.west, jamal crawford, H. barnes, illyasova,boozer, NeNe, Gortat, R.lopez, calderon, drummond, jonas v, garnet,

smith&wesson
02-11-2014, 04:48 PM
Let me repeat Griffin is averaging 30/9/4.5on elite efficiency the last 10 games. In the last 20 it's 28/9.3/4. In the last 35 games he's averaging 26/10/4 on over 60 percent TS. Statistically he's top 5... so to say 10-15 is dumb. He was 10-15 his first 3 years.

tier 2.. still can get to another level. if the clips can get to the wcf's.. I would say blake has earned to be mentioned in that first tier.

tredigs
02-11-2014, 05:05 PM
"Rose and Kobe healthy" doesn't apply to any 1st tier talk anymore, and certainly not if the only other two are KD and Lebron. Rose has had maybe 3 months in his career that he was legitimately outplaying Paul, and he was not better than where Curry is at. Seeing as how he hasn't played elite ball in like 3 years and Kobe will - barring a freaking miracle - never be a tier 1 guy again, we can let that debate rest.

Having guys like Duncan and Dragic in the same tier as Sanders, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith also does not sit right for me, but it's your list.

Shammyguy3
02-11-2014, 05:35 PM
Tier 1 is Lebron and Durant
Tier 2 is Paul, George, Curry, Love, Davis, Griffin
Tier 3 is Westbrook, Anthony, Cousins, Lopez, Harden, Parker, Aldridge, Howard, Gasol, Wade, Bosh
Tier 4 is Irving, Wall, Hibbert, Noah, Iguodala, Lillard, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

That's my rough draft list (not including guys like Rose or Kobe, health is wayyyyy too large of a question)

Clippersfan86
02-11-2014, 05:40 PM
Shammy I agree with your list pretty much.

Jamiecballer
02-11-2014, 05:51 PM
Tier 1 is Lebron and Durant
Tier 2 is Paul, George, Curry, Love, Davis, Griffin
Tier 3 is Westbrook, Anthony, Cousins, Lopez, Harden, Parker, Aldridge, Howard, Gasol, Wade, Bosh
Tier 4 is Irving, Wall, Hibbert, Noah, Iguodala, Lillard, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

That's my rough draft list (not including guys like Rose or Kobe, health is wayyyyy too large of a question)

i'd move Aldridge down to tier 4 but otherwise i concur.

All-In
02-11-2014, 06:04 PM
I thought it was common knowledge that Lebron, KD and CP3 are the 3 best. Paul George has lately regressed to the mean….still great…..just coming back to earth…I love what Dwight has been doing lately. I tend to value two-way players higher. If Curry and Cousins played better defense I can see them one day being top 3….and oh yea Anthony Davis WILL be top 3 one day.

Clippersfan86
02-11-2014, 06:28 PM
Curry isn't an elite defender but he's far better on D than say Cousins or Harden.

tredigs
02-11-2014, 06:43 PM
Curry isn't an elite defender but he's far better on D than say Cousins or Harden.

Yeah, I mean I'd say he's found a solid balance of not over committing on passing lanes and still being among the league leaders in steals. He'll effort it on D and get the job done, but you can't trust him to stand ISO against bigger guards if they're extra talented or to fight through too many screens and effect the shot. "Average" is a fair place to put him. But I think it's fair to say that it's much more important for the bigs and wings to be the premier defenders on the team rather than your PG, and that's where those two lose more points.

jerellh528
02-11-2014, 06:52 PM
Tier 1 is Lebron and Durant
Tier 2 is Paul, George, Curry, Love, Davis, Griffin
Tier 3 is Westbrook, Anthony, Cousins, Lopez, Harden, Parker, Aldridge, Howard, Gasol, Wade, Bosh
Tier 4 is Irving, Wall, Hibbert, Noah, Iguodala, Lillard, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

That's my rough draft list (not including guys like Rose or Kobe, health is wayyyyy too large of a question)

I honestly think cp3 is tier 1 and Lopez isn't that high but decent list.

b@llhog24
02-11-2014, 06:58 PM
On offense definitely, but I don't think Harden is as good as people seem to think he is because his defense is possibly the worst I've ever seen from a star player. And people like to say it's because he doesn't try, and that is true he certainly doesn't try, but even when he tries it is atrocious.

What's the point of shooting .590 TS% when you allow your opponent to shoot .600 TS%...

His opponent can shoot a higher TS than him, it just won't come at a higher volume.