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View Full Version : Would the Bulls ever trade Noah?



poleandreel
02-08-2014, 08:11 AM
What if it was a package for say:

Perkins (Salary equalizer)
Jeremy Lamb (gives them a shooting guard for the future)
Andre Roberson (Sefalosha junior, 7'0 wingspan as potential small forward)
Mavs 1st round pick (I think top 20 protected)
OKC 1st round pick (Late obviously)
Also have a trade exception.

I think that's a solid haul for a 28 year old guy who averages 10/10/4.

For OKC, he's a banger who can also be a playmaker.

Procision
02-08-2014, 08:21 AM
not for that

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 08:23 AM
And before ever bulls fan asks for Adams in addition to lamb, picks, and every asset on the planet, NO. From watching Adams it is clear that he is going to be amazing in the future. He has a foul problem but his finishing, defense, rebounding, and hustle are all great. He is probably already one of the toughest players in the NBA.

Dude consistently gets smashed in the face all game and never flops, never complains, never starts fights. His strength/non fllopping are some of the reasons he has so many fouls. Instead of flopping backwards in the post when people try to post on him, they can't move him because he is a brick house and ends up with the foul.

Duncan = Donkey
02-08-2014, 08:47 AM
Of course they would him, its Joakim Noah.

Those proposals arnt worth Noah though.

FlashBolt
02-08-2014, 09:52 AM
Noah in OKC or Miami would be unfair. They shouldn't trade him, though. Seriously an awesome player.

pebloemer
02-08-2014, 10:42 AM
Gonna throw it out there.

Valanicunas, Salmons expiring, maybe a 1st rounder?

FlashBolt
02-08-2014, 10:48 AM
Gonna throw it out there.

Valanicunas, Salmons expiring, maybe a 1st rounder?

Stupid trade for Toronto.

effen5
02-08-2014, 10:52 AM
Just saying bulls nixed a trade for melo including Noah. To some he might be a 10/10 guy but this guy is worth more than that for the bulls....so a deal really needs to be enticing.

FlashBolt
02-08-2014, 11:02 AM
Just saying bulls nixed a trade for melo including Noah. To some he might be a 10/10 guy but this guy is worth more than that for the bulls....so a deal really needs to be enticing.

I'm not even sure I would take Melo for Noah. Noah's style of play is very rare. Great defender, hustles, rebounds, above average passing, and has passion. He's a game changer. Pair him up with any elite player and he's honestly one of the better support players.

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 11:04 AM
Just saying bulls nixed a trade for melo including Noah. To some he might be a 10/10 guy but this guy is worth more than that for the bulls....so a deal really needs to be enticing.

Yea I get he is more than 10 and 10 when you factor in defense, hustle, and playmaking. However, look at his assists totals before Rose was a constant injury; with a ball dominant guard, he isn't the same playmaker because he doesn't have to be. On another team he likely wouldn't have that value.

Second, look at the history of allstar/superstar trades in the last 5 years. There hasn't really been much given up for good players in a long time. Teams are valuing draft picks and money savings much more now.

Even good players are going untraded and lost for nothing because of inability to get a decent package and other teams not willing to take on money. (See: Al Jefferson / Millsap / Boozer / Bosh etc)

koreancabbage
02-08-2014, 11:19 AM
Yea I get he is more than 10 and 10 when you factor in defense, hustle, and playmaking. However, look at his assists totals before Rose was a constant injury; with a ball dominant guard, he isn't the same playmaker because he doesn't have to be. On another team he likely wouldn't have that value.

Second, look at the history of allstar/superstar trades in the last 5 years. There hasn't really been much given up for good players in a long time. Teams are valuing draft picks and money savings much more now.

Even good players are going untraded and lost for nothing because of inability to get a decent package and other teams not willing to take on money. (See: Al Jefferson / Millsap / Boozer / Bosh etc)

of course he would have that value. there aren't that many teams that have ball heavy PGs so his value as a playmaking center would work tremendously on any other team.

flea
02-08-2014, 11:23 AM
He's a top 5 center and defensive anchor. If the Bulls hope to compete anytime in the next 6-7 years and maybe more then they shouldn't trade him. I think Rose going down and Deng being traded has shown how good he really is. Even though he's limited offensively you can run the offense through him because he's such a good creator, good on the fast break too. With any sort of scoring star (guard, wing, or big) they'd make a top 3 seed with ease.

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 11:30 AM
of course he would have that value. there aren't that many teams that have ball heavy PGs so his value as a playmaking center would work tremendously on any other team.

Huh? Almost every team has a ball dominant PG/player. The exception being Chicago bc their PG/SG situation is pretty bad. He would still be a good passer, but he wouldn't have the burden of being the main playmaker, like he is in Chicago.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2014, 11:34 AM
I'm not even sure I would take Melo for Noah. Noah's style of play is very rare. Great defender, hustles, rebounds, above average passing, and has passion. He's a game changer. Pair him up with any elite player and he's honestly one of the better support players.

It was like 3-4 years ago to be fair.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2014, 11:36 AM
I don't think the Bulls trade him because they likely won't get fair value back for him, that is until Noah is in a contract year. But right now, he's too valuable to us and has a great contract for what he provides.

Of course you do it if somehow you get offered like LBJ, Durant, etc. But I think the Bulls right now would turn down Love for Noah straight up if offered.

koreancabbage
02-08-2014, 11:39 AM
Huh? Almost every team has a ball dominant PG/player. The exception being Chicago bc their PG/SG situation is pretty bad. He would still be a good passer, but he wouldn't have the burden of being the main playmaker, like he is in Chicago.

i don't think its a burden when you're one of the best passing big men in the league. it just comes naturally to him. he just makes the team better from an all round perspective. Chicago's PG/SG is bad, esp when they traded Deng away too but I think it opens up his passing skills more, which isn't a burden. He isn't a scorer much so that is really offset by his skill of playmaking at the center position.

and when i meant ball dominant. i.e. unwilling to pass and rather score for themselves or can only be effective with the ball in their hands - unless you're a star player, thats bad design/playcalling by coaches, esp when you have an asset like Noah.

Stunner
02-08-2014, 11:41 AM
Nope he'll retire a bull most likely , he's already a steal at his current contract . I could see him taking less to stay in Chicago .

koreancabbage
02-08-2014, 11:43 AM
I don't think the Bulls trade him because they likely won't get fair value back for him, that is until Noah is in a contract year. But right now, he's too valuable to us and has a great contract for what he provides.

Of course you do it if somehow you get offered like LBJ, Durant, etc. But I think the Bulls right now would turn down Love for Noah straight up if offered.

well, the first two would be outright dumb b/c you're basically trading franchise player for a role player but I don't think Bulls would be mind trading for Kevin Love - who is 3 years younger than Noah and is entering his prime and is already putting up massive numbers. Noah would def compliment Love though.

Bulls don't have enough to trade for Love and Minny wouldn't trade Love for Noah, even if the Bulls were inclined to part with Noah. Bulls are on a rebuild so they would try to get Love but I don't see that happening.

flea
02-08-2014, 11:45 AM
Competence passing the ball is all too underrated because it's difficult to measure, other than raw assists which are misleading. It means a lot for ball movement when one or both of your bigs can pass competently. Look at Boris Diaw, he's a major piece for one of the best teams in the league as a past-prime, chubby, undersized center with a shaky jumpshot. But because he's a good passer and has some mobility (and defensive versatility), he's the 2nd most important bench player for the Spurs.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2014, 11:53 AM
well, the first two would be outright dumb b/c you're basically trading franchise player for a role player but I don't think Bulls would be mind trading for Kevin Love - who is 3 years younger than Noah and is entering his prime and is already putting up massive numbers. Noah would def compliment Love though.

Bulls don't have enough to trade for Love and Minny wouldn't trade Love for Noah, even if the Bulls were inclined to part with Noah. Bulls are on a rebuild so they would try to get Love but I don't see that happening.

I think both teams turn down that deal right now. Bulls rely on Noah anchoring that defense so much, while MN relies on Love's scoring just as much. Plus you said it, the Bulls goal would be to add Love with Noah. I'm hoping next year when Love is in a contract year, MN would possibly accept Butler, Mirotic, and a plethora of picks (Bobcats, Kings, Bulls) the Bulls should have to get the deal done.

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 11:57 AM
I don't think the Bulls trade him because they likely won't get fair value back for him, that is until Noah is in a contract year. But right now, he's too valuable to us and has a great contract for what he provides.

Of course you do it if somehow you get offered like LBJ, Durant, etc. But I think the Bulls right now would turn down Love for Noah straight up if offered.

Ok, I love noah...but give me a ****ing break. A top 5 player for a role player...? No way in ****ing hell Chicago turns that down. If they do, Rose would up and leave in a heart beat. You can win a championship with 2 superstars. The same can't be said about Rose + Noah.

flea
02-08-2014, 12:00 PM
Ok, I love noah...but give me a ****ing break. A top 5 player for a role player...? No way in ****ing hell Chicago turns that down. If they do, Rose would up and leave in a heart beat. You can win a championship with 2 superstars. The same can't be said about Rose + Noah.

I'd turn it down, and I bet the Bulls would. As soon as you deal Noah you have to find a player who does what he does, or else it's just a lateral move. A guy who is capable of being the 3rd, and maybe even 2nd, best player on a championship team is not a "role player." Don't believe me? 2011 Mavs, 2004 Pistons.

Burkey3472
02-08-2014, 12:15 PM
The only way Noah would get dealt is if it was a deal for a superstar and even then they would turn down some deals. He is the anchor of that defense.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2014, 12:30 PM
Ok, I love noah...but give me a ****ing break. A top 5 player for a role player...? No way in ****ing hell Chicago turns that down. If they do, Rose would up and leave in a heart beat. You can win a championship with 2 superstars. The same can't be said about Rose + Noah.

Top 5 Player? Not sure about that. Very close though. If Love was so much better, I think MN would have a better record than the Bulls considering if you remove each from their teams the talent level is pretty comparable.

All the top teams are defensive stalwarts. Bulls are one of the top, with Noah as the anchor. If the Bulls traded Love for Noah straight up, I highly doubt the Bulls improve as a team even just a little.


I'd turn it down, and I bet the Bulls would. As soon as you deal Noah you have to find a player who does what he does, or else it's just a lateral move. A guy who is capable of being the 3rd, and maybe even 2nd, best player on a championship team is not a "role player." Don't believe me? 2011 Mavs, 2004 Pistons.

Yup.

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 12:33 PM
I'd turn it down, and I bet the Bulls would. As soon as you deal Noah you have to find a player who does what he does, or else it's just a lateral move. A guy who is capable of being the 3rd, and maybe even 2nd, best player on a championship team is not a "role player." Don't believe me? 2011 Mavs, 2004 Pistons.

You just named 2 years out of the past 20 in which a team won without a second superstar. That is not the norm and no, Noah cannot be the second best player on a championship team. The only way that happens is if the rest of the team is stacked...as the 2004 pistons were.

Also, it's easier to replace Noah's 10/10 and defense (chandler, deandre, bogut, asik, gortat, robin lopez, etc.) than it is to replace Love's 27/13/4 and 3pt shooting. Love has also improved defensively so he is no longer a liability...although still not good.

Again, Noah is awesome, a good player, and I love his passion. But no way is he anywhere near comparable to Love.

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 12:37 PM
Top 5 Player? Not sure about that. Very close though. If Love was so much better, I think MN would have a better record than the Bulls considering if you remove each from their teams the talent level is pretty comparable.

All the top teams are defensive stalwarts. Bulls are one of the top, with Noah as the anchor. If the Bulls traded Love for Noah straight up, I highly doubt the Bulls improve as a team even just a little.



Yup.

The Bulls and Timberwolves have the same record except one plays in the West, in a division with OKC, Portland, Denver. The Bulls play against Detroit, Cleveland, and Milwaukee...the two worst teams in the entire NBA.

Further proof:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19co0duovjvdgpng/ku-xlarge.png

Chicago has had a top 5 easiest schedule while the Timberwolves have had a top 5 hardest

GoBullsGo
02-08-2014, 12:52 PM
Noah needs to get shipped. He's a cancer. Noah to PHX for Okafor and picks.

flea
02-08-2014, 12:53 PM
You just named 2 years out of the past 20 in which a team won without a second superstar. That is not the norm and no, Noah cannot be the second best player on a championship team. The only way that happens is if the rest of the team is stacked...as the 2004 pistons were.

Also, it's easier to replace Noah's 10/10 and defense (chandler, deandre, bogut, asik, gortat, robin lopez, etc.) than it is to replace Love's 27/13/4 and 3pt shooting. Love has also improved defensively so he is no longer a liability...although still not good.

Again, Noah is awesome, a good player, and I love his passion. But no way is he anywhere near comparable to Love.

Noah is more than 10-10 and defense. He's also an above average offensive rebounder, good passer, and has a solid J. Centers like Chandler and Deandre are offensive nothings, which creates problems for offense in the paint. Even if Noah isn't scoring, he helps the offense with passing and his ability to hit an open baseline jumpshot, and his length is an offensive rebounding advantage for any offense he plays on with good outside shooting.

And I don't think it's a stretch at all to think a Noah-led Bulls team will perform better than a Love-led one. With the kinds of perimeter defenders (or lack thereof) the Bulls have been trotting out lately, Augustin and Dunleavy mainly, Love might go 25-10 but the team would give up 105 PPG.

abe_froman
02-08-2014, 12:54 PM
sure they would,when they feel they have to go into rebuild mode ,or if they can package him for a star.but for package you proposed? lol no

GoBullsGo
02-08-2014, 12:57 PM
Joakim Noah's basketball career should've ended in high school. He's an embarrassment to the Bulls organization and to the league. He's a joke, he has some basketball IQ and size but he's far from a leader. He's an average ball player.

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 01:00 PM
Noah is more than 10-10 and defense. He's also an above average offensive rebounder, good passer, and has a solid J. Centers like Chandler and Deandre are offensive nothings, which creates problems for offense in the paint. Even if Noah isn't scoring, he helps the offense with passing and his ability to hit an open baseline jumpshot, and his length is an offensive rebounding advantage for any offense he plays on with good outside shooting.

And I don't think it's a stretch at all to think a Noah-led Bulls team will perform better than a Love-led one. With the kinds of perimeter defenders (or lack thereof) the Bulls have been trotting out lately, Augustin and Dunleavy mainly, Love might go 25-10 but the team would give up 105 PPG.

Noah shoots:

35% from 3 to 10 ft
27% from 10 to 16 ft
33% from 16 to 3pt line

Overall he is shooting 29% for the season on jumpshots and 37% on hook shots.

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01/shooting/2014/

I don't think any of that is near or above average. Not even respectable.

He is a great passer though, I'll give him that.

flea
02-08-2014, 01:32 PM
He's not been great this year but he's been asked to provide more offense because the best creator besides him is DJ Augustin, so I think those stats are a bit misleading. I've watched Noah his whole career, he can hit the open baseline J as well as center not known for their shooting (yes even with that funky stroke).

KniCks4LiFe
02-08-2014, 01:48 PM
I wouldn't. Unless it's Drommound or DMC or Anthony Davis.

ManRam
02-08-2014, 01:56 PM
Joakim Noah's basketball career should've ended in high school. He's an embarrassment to the Bulls organization and to the league. He's a joke, he has some basketball IQ and size but he's far from a leader. He's an average ball player.

:confused:

As a Gators fan, I'm quite happy he didn't heed your advice!


I wouldn't. Unless it's Drommound or DMC or Anthony Davis.

Well, obviously none of those teams would do that, so you might as well have just left it at "I wouldn't."

xxplayerxx23
02-08-2014, 02:05 PM
They laugh at that offer. It's terrible, to the guy that called Noah a cancer What? I don't understand if that was sarcasm or not

EL_MACHETE
02-08-2014, 02:30 PM
Noah needs to get shipped. He's a cancer. Noah to PHX for Okafor and picks.


Your a mook and don't know **** about basketball

poleandreel
02-08-2014, 02:34 PM
GoBullsGo is clearly being sarcastic. Are all you guys clearly this ****ing ********? He's a bulls fan, in a thread where he thinks the offer is not good, and people are arguing about Noah's skills/worth...of course he is being immature and sarcastic. Holy ****...

Raps08-09 Champ
02-08-2014, 06:23 PM
They should trade him. Not for what you offered though.

Stunner
02-08-2014, 06:37 PM
They should trade him. Not for what you offered though.

Based on what ? There is no point of trading him , one of the best centers in the league on a good contract . He's the least of our problems .

smiddy012
02-08-2014, 06:43 PM
****. Nice to see Noah finally getting some respect in the main.

What makes Noah so special are two things: his passing skills, which only continue to grow, and his perimeter defense & quickness. He kind of possesses a unique set of attributes/strengths that no other big men have.

Not to mention, Noah is a ****ing leader. That's a man I will go into battle with and die for if you know what I'm saying... Not to mention he can be funny as ****.

smiddy012
02-08-2014, 06:44 PM
Noah shoots:

35% from 3 to 10 ft
27% from 10 to 16 ft
33% from 16 to 3pt line

Overall he is shooting 29% for the season on jumpshots and 37% on hook shots.

Source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noahjo01/shooting/2014/

I don't think any of that is near or above average. Not even respectable.

He is a great passer though, I'll give him that.

Yup... pretty much the only thing Noah can't do well... is shoot. He's been trying, but it's still cringe-worthy when he tries.

GoBullsGo
02-08-2014, 10:07 PM
Anyone who thinks Joakim Noah is a serious basketball player is a moron. The guy is a pothead. He has enough skills to be an All-Star but can't back it up with a class act. Just look at the Sacramento game. Few years back the guy goes on a tirade against the whole city of Cleveland! of all. Should've kept Chandler, that guy was flourishing and with the right people he would've been an All-Star easily. They need to deal Noah now, and wait around to see if Rose is healthy before they amnesty Boozer. If he's not back to his original self they may as well use the amnesty on Rose and let Boozer expire. They won't win with a guy like Rose anyhow. The last time a point guard led his team in scoring was Thomas and Pistons. Sorry to say - but the real deal is that this team is ****ed and nobody in the league likes Noah. Any deal the Bulls make should include Noah so they can get a first option next to Rose. The first guy I'd go after is Kevin Love.

Stunner
02-08-2014, 10:17 PM
Thanks for sharing

smiddy012
02-08-2014, 10:20 PM
Anyone who thinks Joakim Noah is a serious basketball player is a moron. The guy is a pothead. He has enough skills to be an All-Star but can't back it up with a class act. Just look at the Sacramento game. Few years back the guy goes on a tirade against the whole city of Cleveland! of all. Should've kept Chandler, that guy was flourishing and with the right people he would've been an All-Star easily. They need to deal Noah now, and wait around to see if Rose is healthy before they amnesty Boozer. If he's not back to his original self they may as well use the amnesty on Rose and let Boozer expire. They won't win with a guy like Rose anyhow. The last time a point guard led his team in scoring was Thomas and Pistons. Sorry to say - but the real deal is that this team is ****ed and nobody in the league likes Noah. Any deal the Bulls make should include Noah so they can get a first option next to Rose. The first guy I'd go after is Kevin Love.

Let this be a lesson to you kids: DON'T do drugs.

kobe4thewinbang
02-08-2014, 10:23 PM
Well, hopefully Chicago Bulls become a contender again despite this fiasco with Rose. They'll need Noah for that. To trade him would be a mistake, even if they are blowing it up, unless for a superstar and similar player to fill the void.

GoBullsGo
02-08-2014, 10:23 PM
Let this be a lesson to you kids: DON'T do drugs.

I will report you to the mods if you continue to spam.

GunFactor187
02-09-2014, 12:31 AM
I REALLY want to see him and Horford play together in the NBA, they'd be a GREAT tandem just like they were when they were in Florida.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 11:20 AM
Based on what ? There is no point of trading him , one of the best centers in the league on a good contract . He's the least of our problems .

Rose needs a better sidekick than Noah.

flea
02-09-2014, 11:23 AM
Rose needs a better sidekick than Noah.

Given Rose's hobbled knees I'd say Noah needs a better sidekick than an injury-prone combo guard with lackluster defense.

Stunner
02-09-2014, 11:40 AM
Rose needs a better sidekick than Noah.

Obviously don't know what you're talking about . Noah isn't not the problem , if anything you will piss Rose and Thibs to the point of wanting to leave . Especially if you don't get a superstar player back .? Noah doesn't need to be move they have enough assets to make moves and get better . Trading Noah would be stupid , especially seeing he's been on the court more than Rose that last two years . Some sidekick

Stunner
02-09-2014, 11:42 AM
Given Rose's hobbled knees I'd say Noah needs a better sidekick than an injury-prone combo guard with lackluster defense.

Actually Rose has pretty solid respectable defense among PGs since Thibs arrived . He's graded out well and got a couple of all team defensive votes , almost more it in the lockout season but was hurt a lot that year .

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 11:49 AM
Obviously don't know what you're talking about . Noah isn't not the problem , if anything you will piss Rose and Thibs to the point of wanting to leave . Especially if you don't get a superstar player back .? Noah doesn't need to be move they have enough assets to make moves and get better . Trading Noah would be stupid , especially seeing he's been on the court more than Rose that last two years . Some sidekick

You aren't getting a superstar back for Noah. You will get a star though.

Rose, if he comes back, will probably need someone to take the scoring load off of him and compensate for his knees. You could probably net a near 20 PPG scorer for Noah.

flea
02-09-2014, 11:58 AM
You aren't getting a superstar back for Noah. You will get a star though.

Rose, if he comes back, will probably need someone to take the scoring load off of him and compensate for his knees. You could probably net a near 20 PPG scorer for Noah.

GMs that think like you are how the 2013 Knicks get built.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:02 PM
GMs that think like you are how the 2013 Knicks get built.

2013 Knicks had a 54 and 28 record and made the semi finals in the East losing to the Pacers. I'd take it.

Stunner
02-09-2014, 12:05 PM
2013 Knicks had a 54 and 28 record and made the semi finals in the East losing to the Pacers. I'd take it.

Bulls made it to the ECF finals built the way they were and look at the Knicks now , mostly the same roster but actually better and they aren't even in the playoffs

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:13 PM
Bulls made it to the ECF finals built the way they were and look at the Knicks now , mostly the same roster but actually better and they aren't even in the playoffs

Knicks = similar roster but players have drop in production.

Bulls haven't made the ECF since 2011 when Rose was still playing. And the Bulls will stay in the ECF unless they make change. You really think with a depleted Rose going forward when he comes back, he can handle the scoring load on a nightly basis? Some of their players now (Noah, Boozer and Gibson) are already maxing out. I doubt they improve so much within the next year or 2 that they can get over that hump. You'd need to bank on guys like Butler and Snell's development in order to push past teams like the Heat and Pacers.

Stunner
02-09-2014, 12:15 PM
You aren't getting a superstar back for Noah. You will get a star though.

Rose, if he comes back, will probably need someone to take the scoring load off of him and compensate for his knees. You could probably net a near 20 PPG scorer for Noah.

Superstar / star doesn't matter because he won't be traded . A 20 point scorer can't be obtained without giving up Noah . Just give it a rest , bulls have one of the best FO in the league and will make a move that's not harmful to the team. Bulls succees has been riddled with injuries outside of that we will never will know how that actual core could have went . Last years core was the best offensively and if Rose was healthy they had a good shot of making the finals .

king4day
02-09-2014, 12:15 PM
Gotta give to get. Adams, no doubt, would have to be involved. he'd likely be the centerpiece.

flea
02-09-2014, 12:15 PM
The way the Knicks were built has probably damned the Knicks for the next 5-7 years, unless they get really "lucky" in the lottery. You can be proud of that if you want, but a lot of people are going to lose their jobs over it.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:20 PM
Superstar / star doesn't matter because he won't be traded . A 20 point scorer can't be obtained without giving up Noah . Just give it a rest , bulls have one of the best FO in the league and will make a move that's not harmful to the team. Bulls succees has been riddled with injuries outside of that we will never will know how that actual core could have went . Last years core was the best offensively and if Rose was healthy they had a good shot of making the finals .

You can trade Noah without harming the team.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:22 PM
The way the Knicks were built has probably damned the Knicks for the next 5-7 years, unless they get really "lucky" in the lottery. You can be proud of that if you want, but a lot of people are going to lose their jobs over it.

Their 2014 moves is what messed the team up for the future. Their 2013 team, everything was working out for them.

Proud?

Stunner
02-09-2014, 12:23 PM
Knicks = similar roster but players have drop in production.

Bulls haven't made the ECF since 2011 when Rose was still playing. And the Bulls will stay in the ECF unless they make change. You really think with a depleted Rose going forward when he comes back, he can handle the scoring load on a nightly basis? Some of their players now (Noah, Boozer and Gibson) are already maxing out. I doubt they improve so much within the next year or 2 that they can get over that hump. You'd need to bank on guys like Butler and Snell's development in order to push past teams like the Heat and Pacers.

Dude we know what we will do to our roster geez but you're adding more to the problem by asking to trade Noah smh . Only two untouchables are Noah and Rose bulls aren't banking on anything they will go out and get the job done . Noah " maxing out" is good enough for me , he's a two time all star and what you need at the 5 to win championships look at what Tyson did for the Mavs . Bulls will have cap space to make a play at some player to help with the future this year and if they think any player is worth a multi year deal they will try and trade for one or go into 2015 hard . Bulls could possibly have 2 lotto picks next year on the roster with the addition of the best euro league player coming over next year or the year after . A player who scouts said would go in the top 6 of this years draft . Bulls future is in a good spot to bounce back so I'm not worried . But moving Noah isn't the answer , they could easily get Affalo from the Magic by giving them the two 1st round picks they could have this year and a big salary contract .

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:27 PM
Dude we know what we will do to our roster geez but you're adding more to the problem by asking to trade Noah smh . Only two untouchables are Noah and Rose bulls aren't banking on anything they will go out and get the job done . Noah " maxing out" is good enough for me , he's a two time all star and what you need at the 5 to win championships look at what Tyson did for the Mavs . Bulls will have cap space to make a play at some player to help with the future this year and if they think any player is worth a multi year deal they will try and trade for one or go into 2015 hard . Bulls could possibly have 2 lotto picks next year on the roster with the addition of the best euro league player coming over next year or the year after . A player who scouts said would go in the top 6 of this years draft . Bulls future is in a good spot to bounce back so I'm not worried . But moving Noah isn't the answer , they could easily get Affalo from the Magic by giving them the two 1st round picks they could have this year and a big salary contract .

Draft picks and player development from young players isn't exactly win-now mode. When do those players/pick develop into contributable players? When Rose is like 30?

So their need to make some sort of trade to improve the Bulls. Sure they can trade those picks, but entertaining Noah can easily just as help them as well. If they can get a legit scorer with those picks/young players, by all means. I just think trading Noah would be the best way to get that pure 2nd option.

flea
02-09-2014, 12:27 PM
Their 2014 moves is what messed the team up for the future. Their 2013 team, everything was working out for them.

Proud?

Melo/Chandler/Amare/Felton/Smith are what brought the chickens home to roost. 2014 is just the manifestation. They didn't become awful because they signed Ron Artest or acquired Bargnani, though it didn't help. They already were a poor basketball team.

Typical old school GM thinking says you pay Amare a max contract because he can score 20 PPG. That's what you're looking for, right?

Stunner
02-09-2014, 12:28 PM
It makes no sense to trade a player a set position to fill another whole just to go back and try and fill that position . People underrate Noah so much , that's like asking the Grizz to trade Marc Gasol to get them a 20 point scorer .

Stunner
02-09-2014, 12:31 PM
Draft picks and player development from young players isn't exactly win-now mode. When do those players/pick develop into contributable players? When Rose is like 30?

Well seeing Rose is 25 and seeing that the bulls have one of the best scouting departments I have faith in then them not to mention those young assets could become role players since they won't cost a lot or good trade pieces . You should really just stop there is no valid argument you can make for trading Nosh especially seeing that you haven't named in players who Noah could be traded for .

Stunner
02-09-2014, 12:34 PM
Adams , Lamb and all three of those 1st round picks would have to be given up for Noah if a deal had to go down . I think the Bulls would think long and hard about that deal because it frees up cap and gives them possibly 5 1st round picks this year . If push came to shove I might do it but if Adams isn't in the deal I wouldn't .

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:36 PM
Melo/Chandler/Amare/Felton/Smith are what brought the chickens home to roost. 2014 is just the manifestation. They didn't become awful because they signed Ron Artest or acquired Bargnani, though it didn't help. They already were a poor basketball team.

The way the Knicks payed last year and this year are different. The way they utilize their players are different. They made it work last year. It could've worked this year but they chose to go a different route (and player deterioration playing a part). Doesn't change the fact that if they stayed the course, they could've still been successful.


Typical old school GM thinking says you pay Amare a max contract because he can score 20 PPG. That's what you're looking for, right?

Because that's literally what I meant. :rolleyes:

poleandreel
02-09-2014, 12:42 PM
Adams , Lamb and all three of those 1st round picks would have to be given up for Noah if a deal had to go down . I think the Bulls would think long and hard about that deal because it frees up cap and gives them possibly 5 1st round picks this year . If push came to shove I might do it but if Adams isn't in the deal I wouldn't .

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. What is Noah, prime Kevin Garnett?

No way in hell OKC would give up Adams in a deal for 28 year old injury noah. Adams will have a better career than Noah. Way better back to the basket offensive game and finishes better. Good rebounder, tough, physical and hustles just like Noah.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:42 PM
Well seeing Rose is 25 and seeing that the bulls have one of the best scouting departments I have faith in then them not to mention those young assets could become role players since they won't cost a lot or good trade pieces . You should really just stop there is no valid argument you can make for trading Nosh especially seeing that you haven't named in players who Noah could be traded for .

Lol I am not a GM and I have no clue which players are available so of course I am not going to name and make up random trades like saying 2 picks for Afflalo.

I do know Rose will not be the same player as he was in his 2011 MVP year and that he's going to need more help than before, especially on the offensive end. All I said was they should trade Noah because he's their best piece and he can get net them the biggest return out of anyone on the team. That's what you are supposed to do right? To improve teams? If they can get that type of player without trading Noah, by all means. I don't think they can though.

flea
02-09-2014, 12:46 PM
The way the Knicks payed last year and this year are different. The way they utilize their players are different. They made it work last year. It could've worked this year but they chose to go a different route (and player deterioration playing a part). Doesn't change the fact that if they stayed the course, they could've still been successful.



Because that's literally what I meant. :rolleyes:

They were decent last year because the East is so bad, they had a great year from their shooters, and they had Jason Kidd to make sure the offense didn't go stale. They also overachieved and got steamrolled in the playoffs. Cute that you'd like to model your team after that "success."

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 12:55 PM
They were decent last year because the East is so bad, they had a great year from their shooters, and they had Jason Kidd to make sure the offense didn't go stale. They also overachieved and got steamrolled in the playoffs. Cute that you'd like to model your team after that "success."

I never once said I would model a team after the Knicks if I was a GM or something. I said I would take a team that was successful for a season, regardless of how they were modelled for that season (even if it was the Knicks).

mavwar53
02-09-2014, 01:10 PM
Of course they would but big men, with the work ethic and defensive effort that Noah gives are hard to come by. The real question is is anyone willing to give up a star player or big enough package for Noah that the bulls would accept.

ManRam
02-09-2014, 01:11 PM
Anyone who thinks Joakim Noah is a serious basketball player is a moron. The guy is a pothead. He has enough skills to be an All-Star but can't back it up with a class act. Just look at the Sacramento game. Few years back the guy goes on a tirade against the whole city of Cleveland! of all. Should've kept Chandler, that guy was flourishing and with the right people he would've been an All-Star easily. They need to deal Noah now, and wait around to see if Rose is healthy before they amnesty Boozer. If he's not back to his original self they may as well use the amnesty on Rose and let Boozer expire. They won't win with a guy like Rose anyhow. The last time a point guard led his team in scoring was Thomas and Pistons. Sorry to say - but the real deal is that this team is ****ed and nobody in the league likes Noah. Any deal the Bulls make should include Noah so they can get a first option next to Rose. The first guy I'd go after is Kevin Love.

Stopped reading after this...

Glad I did, I think.

Stunner
02-09-2014, 01:15 PM
Of course they would but big men, with the work ethic and defensive effort that Noah gives are hard to come by. The real question is is anyone willing to give up a star player or big enough package for Noah that the bulls would accept.

There is no star player that anyone is willing to trade that Noah would be in a deal for that makes sense . Any front court star PF to trade for would make sense to par with Noah not to trade away . People on this forum can't seem to grasp that at all . All I see is trade him just because he has vaule . The point is to maximum your roster NLT make a lateral move .

Rndy
02-09-2014, 01:15 PM
If only Noah could be an all star! Apparently someone doesn't know much about basketball.:laugh: Fact that this guy has never even posted in the Bulls forum I think it's safe to say he's a troll.

KnicksorBust
02-09-2014, 03:18 PM
And before ever bulls fan asks for Adams in addition to lamb, picks, and every asset on the planet, NO. From watching Adams it is clear that he is going to be amazing in the future. He has a foul problem but his finishing, defense, rebounding, and hustle are all great. He is probably already one of the toughest players in the NBA.

Dude consistently gets smashed in the face all game and never flops, never complains, never starts fights. His strength/non fllopping are some of the reasons he has so many fouls. Instead of flopping backwards in the post when people try to post on him, they can't move him because he is a brick house and ends up with the foul.

You wouldnt be willing to give up Adams to get Noah?

Bahahahahaha. If OKC had Noah they would win the title. Instead you would rather hope Adams develops. Insane.

albertajaysfan
02-09-2014, 04:49 PM
Lol I am not a GM and I have no clue which players are available so of course I am not going to name and make up random trades like saying 2 picks for Afflalo.

I do know Rose will not be the same player as he was in his 2011 MVP year and that he's going to need more help than before, especially on the offensive end. All I said was they should trade Noah because he's their best piece and he can get net them the biggest return out of anyone on the team. That's what you are supposed to do right? To improve teams? If they can get that type of player without trading Noah, by all means. I don't think they can though.

But you criticized the Bulls relying on young players and draft picks because it wouldn't match up with Rose's prime. That is what you are likely to get in a trade for Noah.

Don't hide behind the I don't know who is available. None of us are GMs but this is a sports forum where discussing these types of scenarios is a large reason many of us are here.

If you believe Noah should be traded the argument that he would net the greatest return isn't valid unless they are in full on rebuilding mode. Which you had an argument against. You are correct in stating that he isn't a 2nd option on offence. However he is a great defender which considering the position he plays is extremely valuable when building a winning team.

Yes Chicago needs to add to their core in order to be a legitimate contender. I would argue they recognized that when they traded away Luol Deng. When contending in the very near future (i.e. next season) is the goal it is less wiggle room. Making a trade to fill one hole while creating another isn't advisable. You are no further ahead. Especially if the new hole you have created is just as tough to fill if not harder. There are far more capable scorers than truly solid big men, especially right now.

In answer to the OP, the only way Chicago trade away Noah is if Rose can't come back from his injury.

albertajaysfan
02-09-2014, 04:53 PM
The way the Knicks payed last year and this year are different. The way they utilize their players are different. They made it work last year. It could've worked this year but they chose to go a different route (and player deterioration playing a part). Doesn't change the fact that if they stayed the course, they could've still been successful.

They lost a player that was extremely vital to their success last year. A player I never imagined would make sure a difference. That player is Jason Kidd.

That loss combined with injury issues they had early on eroded the positive work that was done last year.

albertajaysfan
02-09-2014, 04:55 PM
You wouldnt be willing to give up Adams to get Noah?

Bahahahahaha. If OKC had Noah they would win the title. Instead you would rather hope Adams develops. Insane.

The 3 first rounders is a stretch on top of Adams and Lamb.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 06:17 PM
But you criticized the Bulls relying on young players and draft picks because it wouldn't match up with Rose's prime. That is what you are likely to get in a trade for Noah.

Entertain me. Is that what GMs have said?



Don't hide behind the I don't know who is available. None of us are GMs but this is a sports forum where discussing these types of scenarios is a large reason many of us are here.

Sure I can make up some fictitious trades. Doesn't do any good to suggest any though.


If you believe Noah should be traded the argument that he would net the greatest return isn't valid unless they are in full on rebuilding mode. Which you had an argument against. You are correct in stating that he isn't a 2nd option on offence. However he is a great defender which considering the position he plays is extremely valuable when building a winning team.

To get a true offensive threat along side Rose, what do you suggest they trade? I am not denying Noah's value on defence. I am saying they will definitely need a true offensive option beside Rose when he comes back.

Either (1) you keep Noah to be a big factor on defense (with some contribution for offense) and trade picks/young players for that offensive player or (2) you trade Noah for the offensive player and trade the young players/picks for an impactful defensive player. Pick one or the other. I am simply picking option 1. I'm obvously not saying trade Noah for an offensive player and end it at that. I am saying shift their focus from defense to offense for their 2nd best player. If you can do as good with option 2, then that's fine.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2014, 06:19 PM
If only Noah could be an all star! Apparently someone doesn't know much about basketball.:laugh: Fact that this guy has never even posted in the Bulls forum I think it's safe to say he's a troll.

Who said Noah wasn't an All star calibre player? That guy should be banned.

smiddy012
02-09-2014, 06:43 PM
The reason why Noah isn't traded is a reason Shammy has brought up multiple times, particularly in regards to Deng and how we held onto him for so long...

The key is - does another team need him more than us? Because without Noah, we have no real playmaker, and we are a 9-12 seed in the East at best. On top of that, he is our emotional and vocal leader (whether Rose is playing or not).

Only way the Bulls trade Noah is if they go into complete rebuild mode. And even then Garpax would have a mutiny on his hands bw Thibbs and Rose.

KnicksorBust
02-09-2014, 06:49 PM
You wouldnt be willing to give up Adams to get Noah?

Bahahahahaha. If OKC had Noah they would win the title. Instead you would rather hope Adams develops. Insane.

The 3 first rounders is a stretch on top of Adams and Lamb.

Not even close to a stretch. Assuming those are OKC picks... you could have the #28 pick for the next TEN years and never find a Noah.