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View Full Version : The Awful Offensive Foul Call Against Kyle Lowry at the end of the Kings Game



Mile High Champ
02-06-2014, 12:24 PM
Like many of you, I am livid over what happened last night. How on earth was that called a foul? It may just be the worst call made by an NBA official this year. I am really speechless and I am shocked Casey did not go after the refs more for that call. You have to take a stand over BS like this. I really hope the Raps management comes out and really calls out the NBA and the refs. The fould differential in the game was completely insane and was overlooked entirely.

For those who missed it, I have attached a link to the video below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JFRnCZXWzk

Sly Guy
02-06-2014, 12:55 PM
lol, just saw it like 2 mins ago. I laughed really hard seeing it....Honestly, there is no ref in the world makes this call an offensive one.

Even better is that he got a tech for running away from the ref, not making eye contact, and not saying a word.

gwrighter
02-06-2014, 01:05 PM
51 ****ing FT's. IF you look closely that was a foul on Sacramento. Should have been an and 1. In the NBA you get a technical for talking to the ref too much & you also get a technical for walking away from the refs. This league is becoming a joke.

B2B
02-06-2014, 01:06 PM
Problem is Lowry was not wearing a Heat/Indiana jersey or is he as popular/respected as James/George.

Recently George had a 4 point play to send their game against the Kings into overtime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoFgYKL-EQk. On the replay, the official called Williams for the foul as soon as he raised his arm, not at a point of potential impact.

Sly Guy
02-06-2014, 01:12 PM
51 ****ing FT's. IF you look closely that was a foul on Sacramento. Should have been an and 1. In the NBA you get a technical for talking to the ref too much & you also get a technical for walking away from the refs. This league is becoming a joke.

That's the funniest thing about this play. Seriously, what was he supposed to do to walk away without a tech?

B2B
02-06-2014, 01:13 PM
51 ****ing FT's. IF you look closely that was a foul on Sacramento. Should have been an and 1. In the NBA you get a technical for talking to the ref too much & you also get a technical for walking away from the refs. This league is becoming a joke.

Sure, if your not Lebron, KG, Wade.

Lowry was an obvious miss.

I don't see people talking about Cousins holding the ball out of bounds with time ticking away & JV trying to take the ball away, I guess the tech for delay of game didn't apply at this point either..

gwrighter
02-06-2014, 01:18 PM
Sure, if your not Lebron, KG, Wade.

Lowry was an obvious miss.

I don't see people talking about Cousins holding the ball out of bounds with time ticking away & JV trying to take the ball away, I guess the tech for delay of game didn't apply at this point either..

Lebron has actually been the victim of the walking away technical calls they're ridiculous.

& yeah the refs we're calling the game from the disposition of a Sacramento bias. Everything they called was in favour of Sacramento. We stood no chance, after seeing the offensive fouls we were picking up constantly it was terrible. If we had Jonas in things might have been different I don't know why Casey subbed him out with 4 minutes left to play. Like **** man we need rebounding and shot altering around the rim... If he fouls out then so be it.

Shaq said it best in a post game interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajcY_MJHLng\

Jays Claw
02-06-2014, 01:21 PM
It's become a habit among NBA officials to constantly rape the Raps...

B2B
02-06-2014, 01:22 PM
Lebron has actually been the victim of the walking away technical calls they're ridiculous.

& yeah the refs we're calling the game from the disposition of a Sacramento bias. Everything they called was in favour of Sacramento. We stood no chance, after seeing the offensive fouls we were picking up constantly it was terrible. If we had Jonas in things might have been different I don't know why Casey subbed him out with 4 minutes left to play. Like **** man we need rebounding and shot altering around the rim... If he fouls out then so be it.

Shaq said it best in a post game interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajcY_MJHLng\

Yeah, Casey didn't help.

After a 16-2 run with Jonas. Casey subbed him out for Hayes who on a following play had a rebound fall out of his reach. I stopped trying to understand him as a coach.

Novak was working as a 4 with Jonas at C, why go smaller with Hayes?.

Jamiecballer
02-06-2014, 01:24 PM
wow that seems like a pretty bad call.

B2B
02-06-2014, 01:24 PM
It's become a habit among NBA officials to constantly rape the Raps...

It's not becoming a habit, as the wins pile up, it's becoming more obvious.

I'm thinking of putting some money on Nets finishing 1st in the Atlantic.

B2B
02-06-2014, 01:29 PM
Anyone have video of Cousins holding the ball out of bounds with Jonas trying to wrestle the ball away?. I believe it was in the last 5 mins of the 4th.

Ref sideline had no intention to call a delay of game tech.

smith&wesson
02-06-2014, 01:50 PM
refs controlled the whole game... last call was probably the worst call I ever seen... robbery. were suppose to be a playoff team, and a last place bottom dweller team gets like 50 trips to the foul line.

GrumpyOldMan
02-06-2014, 02:03 PM
I'm calling "b*llsh*t" on last night's officials. I'm actually upset about this. I usually let bad calls slide more than most would, but not this time. I'm calling "b*llsh*t".

Sadds The Gr8
02-06-2014, 02:09 PM
Problem is Lowry was not wearing a Heat/Indiana jersey or is he as popular/respected as James/George.

Recently George had a 4 point play to send their game against the Kings into overtime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoFgYKL-EQk. On the replay, the official called Williams for the foul as soon as he raised his arm, not at a point of potential impact.

Jamal Crawford made a living off that same ****in play and he never gets called for it. He even did it LAST NIGHT after I switched to the LAC/MIA game after the Raps game was over and got the and1....I was so pissed when it happened.

Bramaca
02-06-2014, 02:21 PM
It's become a habit among NBA officials to constantly rape the Raps...

Is it? Or do we just tend to remember the games where the officiating was against us?

Out of 49 games this year the Raps have had more free throw attempts then their opposition 26 games, 3games the free throws were even, and 20 the other team had more free throws.

12 games this season the Raps have had 10 or more extra free throws then their opposition
The opposition has had 10 or more extra free throws then the Raps 10 times (3 of those were against the Bobcats).

Against teams like the Pacers/Heat who the refs obviously favor over us the Raps have actually got the better end of the stick by a long shot.

Sly Guy
02-06-2014, 02:24 PM
Is it? Or do we just tend to remember the games where the officiating was against us?

Out of 49 games this year the Raps have had more free throw attempts then their opposition 26 games, 3games the free throws were even, and 20 the other team had more free throws.

12 games this season the Raps have had 10 or more extra free throws then their opposition
The opposition has had 10 or more extra free throws then the Raps 10 times (3 of those were against the Bobcats).

Against teams like the Pacers/Heat who the refs obviously favor over us the Raps have actually got the better end of the stick by a long shot.

I actually agree with you. But....That doesn't change the fact this one was a really really really obvious and bad call.

B2B
02-06-2014, 02:25 PM
Jamal Crawford made a living off that same ****in play and he never gets called for it. He even did it LAST NIGHT after I switched to the LAC/MIA game after the Raps game was over and got the and1....I was so pissed when it happened.

Found this on ******

Eric Lewis 2013-2014

General Jersey Number 42
Games Officiated 17
Home Team ATS 8-9-0
Home Team W/L 7-10
Avg. Home Score 104.7
Avg. Road Score 104.9
Home Avg. Margin -.2
Avg. Total Score 209.6

Over/Under vs. the TotalOverall 16-1
184.5 or less 1-0
185-194.5 3-0
195-204.5 8-0
205+ 4-1

Favorite or Underdog
0-4.5 0-3 3-1
5-9.5 0-3 3-1
10+ 2-1 0-0

B2B
02-06-2014, 02:34 PM
Is it? Or do we just tend to remember the games where the officiating was against us?

Out of 49 games this year the Raps have had more free throw attempts then their opposition 26 games, 3games the free throws were even, and 20 the other team had more free throws.

12 games this season the Raps have had 10 or more extra free throws then their opposition
The opposition has had 10 or more extra free throws then the Raps 10 times (3 of those were against the Bobcats).

Against teams like the Pacers/Heat who the refs obviously favor over us the Raps have actually got the better end of the stick by a long shot.

How many of those were momentum calls vs calls where the team is losing in double digits?.

Bramaca
02-06-2014, 02:34 PM
I actually agree with you. But....That doesn't change the fact this one was a really really really obvious and bad call.

I agree, it was a terrible call. But leave it at that, it was a terrible call. Doesn't mean the refs and the league are out to get the Raps.

B2B
02-06-2014, 02:37 PM
I agree, it was a terrible call. But leave it at that, it was a terrible call. Doesn't mean the refs and the league are out to get the Raps.

No they are not out to get the Raptors, they are a sport/business that is ruled by popularity, money, gambling.

Bramaca
02-06-2014, 02:42 PM
How many of those were momentum calls vs calls where the team is losing in double digits?.

Don't know but I have seen plenty of games this year where the Raps got favorable calls either at the end or throughout the game which allowed them to stay in it. Fans tend to forget those games or the ones that were officiated fairly evenly and only hang onto the ones that worked against the team.

ink
02-06-2014, 02:43 PM
I actually agree with you. But....That doesn't change the fact this one was a really really really obvious and bad call.

That's how I see it. No conspiracy but one helluva brutal game yesterday. And the Lowry call was hilariously bad.

ink
02-06-2014, 02:50 PM
Probably already seen but this is from the GT:

Some reaction from SI to the bizarre call on Lowry at the end of the game (includes video of the play):


Kyle Lowry raced off the court “Forrest Gump” style after he was whistled for a controversial offensive foul call, and then ejected, during the closing minute of Toronto’s 109-101 road loss to Sacramento on Wednesday.

With the Kings leading 105-99 and just 28.5 seconds remaining in the game, the Raptors swung the ball to Lowry at the right angle on an inbounds play. Lowry quickly stepped into a three-pointer, and Sacramento rookie guard Ben McLemore contacted him during the shot. Lowry’s three was good and the whistle seemingly signaled the possibility of a four-point play that would cut the Kings’ lead to two.

Instead, Lowry was whistled for an offensive foul, apparently because his legs swung forward during his shooting motion. Once referee Eric Lewis signaled the offensive foul call, Lowry immediately hopped up off the hardwood in disbelief, running down toward the other end of the court. That reaction earned him a technical foul, and after turning around to confirm that call, Lowry simply headed for the locker room, even though there were 25.5 seconds left in the game. Sacramento had no problem holding on for the victory after Lowry’s ejection.

Prior to the 2012-13 season, the NBA’s referees were instructed to emphasize the so-called “Reggie Miller rule,” which mandated an offensive foul for shooters that kicked out their legs in an attempt to draw a foul during their shooting motion. Although Lowry’s legs did swing forward during his shot, the swing didn’t seem unnatural or intentionally undertaken to draw contact. Rather, it seemed to be a product of his on-the-move, catch-and-shoot motion, and his attention was on the ball and rim throughout the shot, even after contact. While both players did fall to the court, the best decision was probably a no-call, especially considering the time/score situation and game-deciding implications of the offensive foul.

Lowry, who was arguably the East’s top All-Star snub, departed with 21 points (on 7-for-16 shooting), eight assists and seven rebounds. DeMar DeRozan added 18 points (on 5-for-17 shooting), six rebounds and four assists.

DeMarcus Cousins led the Kings with 25 points (on 8-for-19 shooting), 10 rebounds and four assists. Isaiah Thomas added 23 points (on 4-for-12 shooting), five assists and three rebounds.

Sacramento improved to 17-32 with the win. Toronto dropped to 26-23 with the loss.

http://nba.si.com/2014/02/06/kyle-lowry-ejection-runs-off-court-raptors-kings/

killersweet
02-06-2014, 02:56 PM
No they are not out to get the Raptors, they are a sport/business that is ruled by popularity, money, gambling.

I am not saying NBA games are rigged. However, there are some interesting aspects to the nba games when it comes to gambling and officiating. There are certain referees that favor home teams. There are certain referees that favor Overs in nba totals. These stats are generally available on gambling websites. I don't know how it happens, but it still amazes me how accurate sometimes these data can be.

B2B
02-06-2014, 03:00 PM
Don't know but I have seen plenty of games this year where the Raps got favorable calls either at the end or throughout the game which allowed them to stay in it. Fans tend to forget those games or the ones that were officiated fairly evenly and only hang onto the ones that worked against the team.

I have not forgotten the calls in our favor.

None can tell me the league is not rigged when they bend the rules in favor of their star/popular players.

That video I posted of George hitting the 4 point play against the Kings to send the game to OT, not only did Williams not touch him, the official blew the whistle the moment Williams raised his arm, no chance for contact.

He was going to make sure George either hit the shot or made it to the line.

B2B
02-06-2014, 03:07 PM
I am not saying NBA games are rigged. However, there are some interesting aspects to the nba games when it comes to gambling and officiating. There are certain referees that favor home teams. There are certain referees that favor Overs in nba totals. These stats are generally available on gambling websites. I don't know how it happens, but it still amazes me how accurate sometimes these data can be.

Human error, luck.

I know the life, I can tell you things that would make your skin crawl. You would be surprised how people refuse to see what is in front their face when it comes to corruption.

Bramaca
02-06-2014, 03:14 PM
I have not forgotten the calls in our favor.

None can tell me the league is not rigged when they bend the rules in favor of their star/popular players.

That video I posted of George hitting the 4 point play against the Kings to send the game to OT, not only did Williams not touch him, the official blew the whistle the moment Williams raised his arm, no chance for contact.

He was going to make sure George either hit the shot or made it to the line.

I have never said that the refs aren't questionable at times. But I think your points are seriously weakened when the only time you tend to make them are when they work against the team. It appears very bitter and biased.

B2B
02-06-2014, 03:21 PM
I have never said that the refs aren't questionable at times. But I think your points are seriously weakened when the only time you tend to make them are when they work against the team. It appears very bitter and biased.

Don't let appearances fool you, I'm not bitter. I won't deny as a fan that there isn't some remote bias.

Notice, I responded the day after, not in the moment.

Can you deny that call on Lowry didn't drastically change the complexion of the game?.

Nick O
02-06-2014, 03:49 PM
just turrible. way too many fouls called in that game.. that being said the raptors still played like total garbage in all fairness.

GameBreaker
02-06-2014, 03:52 PM
Is it? Or do we just tend to remember the games where the officiating was against us?

Out of 49 games this year the Raps have had more free throw attempts then their opposition 26 games, 3games the free throws were even, and 20 the other team had more free throws.

12 games this season the Raps have had 10 or more extra free throws then their opposition
The opposition has had 10 or more extra free throws then the Raps 10 times (3 of those were against the Bobcats).

Against teams like the Pacers/Heat who the refs obviously favor over us the Raps have actually got the better end of the stick by a long shot.

It's not the numbers that should be the focus on whether or not the Raps have gotten more or not. It's the time, in the games, where they seem to happen. All at crucial times of the game. I agree that the refs seem to have it in for the Raps, as if we're a feeder fish team. Are they better, than before, with regards to our team? Yeah?

B2B
02-06-2014, 04:09 PM
It's not the numbers that should be the focus on whether or not the Raps have gotten more or not. It's the time, in the games, where they seem to happen. All at crucial times of the game. I agree that the refs seem to have it in for the Raps, as if we're a feeder fish team. Are they better, than before, with regards to our team? Yeah?

While I agree momentum calls are more important than sheer volume.

It's about making the correct call, which is now IMO beyond human error/bias.

Marketing - benefit star players

Ratings - popular teams/franchises

Gambling - corruption

Human bias -

Human error -

B2B
02-06-2014, 04:15 PM
just turrible. way too many fouls called in that game.. that being said the raptors still played like total garbage in all fairness.

How Raptors played, does not justify the call.

People want to say fans are making excuses for the team. What are people doing when they say the team should have played above the officiating?.

Bramaca
02-06-2014, 04:18 PM
Don't let appearances fool you, I'm not bitter. I won't deny as a fan that there isn't some remote bias.

Notice, I responded the day after, not in the moment.

Can you deny that call on Lowry didn't drastically change the complexion of the game?.

Don't think I have said anything to say it wasn't a terrible call. Just been saying that it looks extremely biased when the only time its brought up is when its against the Raps. Doesn't matter if its a day later so you can think about it more when it appears as if you are only looking at one side of the coin.

B2B
02-06-2014, 04:29 PM
Don't think I have said anything to say it wasn't a terrible call. Just been saying that it looks extremely biased when the only time its brought up is when its against the Raps. Doesn't matter if its a day later so you can think about it more when it appears as if you are only looking at one side of the coin.

It was brought up because it was blatant call on Lowry on the back of 51 ft's. I post about bad calls in wins & losses most recent was the Net game, we weren't meant to win that one but Raptors got a late steal.

I made sure to post in the Nets win after mentioning the same crew that officiated both losses against Boston, Lakers who were both on multiple game losing skids with Boston being short handed post trade & LA being a terrible team on the road. All struggling last place teams beating the money line against a surging Raptors team.

Down the stretch, Cousins also held the ball baseline after he scored while Jonas tried to wrestle the ball away with no tech. I've seen teams/players get techs for touching the ball instinctively as it falls through the hoop.

killersweet
02-06-2014, 04:37 PM
How Raptors played, does not justify the call.

People want to say fans are making excuses for the team. What are people doing when they say the team should have played above the officiating?.

I think there are 2 separate issues. One, the call was terrible and potentially could have been a game changer. The other is about raptor's sub par play last night. I was following the game thread last night and before the raptors made the late charge, most of the people thought raptors have played poorly. Raptors defense didn't show much urgency till the 2nd half. There are going to be lots of nights where raptors are not gonna get the calls and the star players are going to get their share of calls. It's not fair, but that's reality. we gotta deal with it.

B2B
02-06-2014, 04:41 PM
I think there are 2 separate issues. One, the call was terrible and potentially could have been a game changer. The other is about raptor's sub par play last night. I was following the game thread last night and before the raptors made the late charge, most of the people thought raptors have played poorly. Raptors defense didn't show much urgency till the 2nd half. There are going to be lots of nights where raptors are not gonna get the calls and the star players are going to get their share of calls. It's not fair, but that's reality. we gotta deal with it.

They are separate issues,

Damn, I want to get video of the Cousins play I'm talking about.

Freakazoid
02-06-2014, 05:11 PM
I am not saying NBA games are rigged. However, there are some interesting aspects to the nba games when it comes to gambling and officiating. There are certain referees that favor home teams. There are certain referees that favor Overs in nba totals. These stats are generally available on gambling websites. I don't know how it happens, but it still amazes me how accurate sometimes these data can be.

People like to separate the two but statistics is math. We've been using data mining and statistical algorithms to predict outcomes for decades. You can even use something as trivial as the pythagorean theorem to predict spreads rather easily.

Which is why I think it's rather unlikely that refs influence games to control point spreads. If you average out every referee's tendencies, I would wager that the over/under would be similar to Vegas'.

B2B
02-06-2014, 05:34 PM
People like to separate the two but statistics is math. We've been using data mining and statistical algorithms to predict outcomes for decades. You can even use something as trivial as the pythagorean theorem to predict spreads rather easily.

Which is why I think it's rather unlikely that refs influence games to control point spreads. If you average out every referee's tendencies, I would wager that the over/under would be similar to Vegas'.

Trivial & unlikely, is why it took the FBI, not NBA during a broader investigation to out Donaghy after 2ys of covering the spread.

People like to say he's a criminal to discredit his testimonial that he wasn't & isn't alone.

B2B
02-06-2014, 05:40 PM
Sports gambling expert R. J. Bell, president of sports betting information site Pregame.com, tracked every game Donaghy worked from 2003 to 2007. He discovered that during the two seasons investigated by the NBA, the teams involved scored more points than expected by the Las Vegas sports books 57 percent of the time. In the previous two seasons, this only happened 44 percent of the time. According to Bell, the odds of such a discrepancy are 1 in 1,000, and there was "a 99.9 percent chance that these results would not have happened without an outside factor". He also found 10 straight games in 2007 in which Donaghy worked the game that the point spread moved 1.5 points or more before the tip—an indication that big money had been wagered on the game. The big money won every time—another indication that "something (was) going on". However, Bell suggested that there was no way anyone who wasn't in on the fix could have known that something was amiss about Donaghy's actions during a game; he said it would have been another year at the earliest before anyone could have caught on

GodsSon
02-06-2014, 11:03 PM
The best outcome would have been the entire team and coaching staff walking into the locker room and abandoning the game. **** the fine(s).

That would have sent a loud message.

deaner
02-06-2014, 11:30 PM
Kyle Lowry got called for an offensive foul on this jumper, and thatís obviously baffling. Itís so egregious that itís not unfair to question if this was abject incompetence or if something more sinister was involved; Tim Donaghy, the former NBA referee who provided information to gamblers and served time in jail, seems to think the latter: Tim Donaghy @TimDonaghy2 Watch this video...line was 7.5, Sac wins by 8..http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/kyle-lowry-raptors-fall-wrong-end-offensive-foul-072820173.html Ö


For what itís worth, Goldsheet says the line was Sacramento by 1 while OddsShark indicates that the spread varied between Toronto -1.5 and and +1, so itís unclear if Donaghy was just trying to stir up controversy or if he has access to a different set of odds than we can find. The Big Lead
Toronto Raptors, Tim Donaghy

Freakazoid
02-06-2014, 11:31 PM
Trivial & unlikely, is why it took the FBI, not NBA during a broader investigation to out Donaghy after 2ys of covering the spread.

People like to say he's a criminal to discredit his testimonial that he wasn't & isn't alone.

Michael Jordan used to be in the league, therefore all players are MJ. I can't believe that you're using a single incident to argue against my use of "unlikely". Quite baffling.

gwrighter
02-06-2014, 11:44 PM
Eric Lewis already made a stupid call to being the GSW game. Defensive 3 second technical foul on the first play lol.

ink
02-07-2014, 12:29 AM
Trivial & unlikely, is why it took the FBI, not NBA during a broader investigation to out Donaghy after 2ys of covering the spread.

People like to say he's a criminal to discredit his testimonial that he wasn't & isn't alone.

Michael Jordan used to be in the league, therefore all players are MJ. I can't believe that you're using a single incident to argue against my use of "unlikely". Quite baffling.

The internet: where incompetence magically turns into conspiracy.

ink
02-07-2014, 12:54 AM
Like many of you, I am livid over what happened last night. How on earth was that called a foul? It may just be the worst call made by an NBA official this year. I am really speechless and I am shocked Casey did not go after the refs more for that call. You have to take a stand over BS like this. I really hope the Raps management comes out and really calls out the NBA and the refs. The fould differential in the game was completely insane and was overlooked entirely.

For those who missed it, I have attached a link to the video below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JFRnCZXWzk

I was pretty pissed at the bad call too but I think Casey needed to be after his players for their concerning habit of stinking out the joint for three quarters and playing one desperate quarter hoping to win.

deaner
02-07-2014, 01:26 AM
QUOTABLE II: "At first, to be honest, I thought they called a foul on Ben [McLemore] and it was going to be another four point play and it was deja vu all over again. And then they called the leg kick. A little sigh of relief and okay, we're going to be okay in this one."
-- Kings coach Michael Malone on the late offensive foul call on Lowry

killersweet
02-07-2014, 10:45 AM
Kyle Lowry got called for an offensive foul on this jumper, and thatís obviously baffling. Itís so egregious that itís not unfair to question if this was abject incompetence or if something more sinister was involved; Tim Donaghy, the former NBA referee who provided information to gamblers and served time in jail, seems to think the latter: Tim Donaghy @TimDonaghy2 Watch this video...line was 7.5, Sac wins by 8..http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/kyle-lowry-raptors-fall-wrong-end-offensive-foul-072820173.html Ö


For what itís worth, Goldsheet says the line was Sacramento by 1 while OddsShark indicates that the spread varied between Toronto -1.5 and and +1, so itís unclear if Donaghy was just trying to stir up controversy or if he has access to a different set of odds than we can find. The Big Lead
Toronto Raptors, Tim Donaghy

The line was -1 for the kings. May be during live betting the odds could have been -7.5. So not sure what Tim is saying. However, raptors have been an ATS covering machine. So give or take, that play may have potentially cost people money. There were far more questionable stuff that happens in the NBA that makes you shake your head. I have been betting for couple of decades now and I have seen my share of stranger things. But I don't think refs can influence all the games. There may be odd ones here and there. Like Freakazoid pointed out, it can be the referee's tendencies.

pulzar
02-07-2014, 11:25 AM
You can even use something as trivial as the pythagorean theorem to predict spreads rather easily.

(Math nitpick intermission)

Not really. Pythagorean theorem deals with ares of squares formed by sides of right-angle triangles. The predicted wins formula that uses squares of points for/against very loosely resembles the formula Pythagoras came up with, so the name was borrowed to make it sound more legit.

Whether the formula is a good predictor for wins or not, I'm not sure, but it certainly has nothing to do with Pythagoras.

(And now, back to our regularly scheduled basketball broadcast. :) )

B2B
02-07-2014, 11:30 AM
Kyle Lowry got called for an offensive foul on this jumper, and thatís obviously baffling. Itís so egregious that itís not unfair to question if this was abject incompetence or if something more sinister was involved; Tim Donaghy, the former NBA referee who provided information to gamblers and served time in jail, seems to think the latter: Tim Donaghy @TimDonaghy2 Watch this video...line was 7.5, Sac wins by 8..http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/kyle-lowry-raptors-fall-wrong-end-offensive-foul-072820173.html Ö


For what itís worth, Goldsheet says the line was Sacramento by 1 while OddsShark indicates that the spread varied between Toronto -1.5 and and +1, so itís unclear if Donaghy was just trying to stir up controversy or if he has access to a different set of odds than we can find. The Big Lead
Toronto Raptors, Tim Donaghy

Real gm was trying to get recognition for the call, a poster sent him wrong information on the betting line.

B2B
02-07-2014, 11:45 AM
QUOTABLE II: "At first, to be honest, I thought they called a foul on Ben [McLemore] and it was going to be another four point play and it was deja vu all over again. And then they called the leg kick. A little sigh of relief and okay, we're going to be okay in this one."
-- Kings coach Michael Malone on the late offensive foul call on Lowry

Difference is George got the 4 point play to send their game into overtime despite Williams not even touching him. Official blew the whistle as soon as Williams raised his arm, no contact.

Maybe Indiana should not have put themselves in that position in the first place, lol.

B2B
02-07-2014, 12:05 PM
Michael Jordan used to be in the league, therefore all players are MJ. I can't believe that you're using a single incident to argue against my use of "unlikely". Quite baffling.

MJ was a popular superstar, once he left, none to represent his place as a star.

Donaghy said he wasn't alone, he's a convicted criminal, therefore he's lying despite being under oath. If the FBI investigation proved him a liar, he would have only increased his jail time for his statements, which didn't happen.

NBA took over the investigation to save face.

B2B
02-07-2014, 12:11 PM
(Math nitpick intermission)

Not really. Pythagorean theorem deals with ares of squares formed by sides of right-angle triangles. The predicted wins formula that uses squares of points for/against very loosely resembles the formula Pythagoras came up with, so the name was borrowed to make it sound more legit.

Whether the formula is a good predictor for wins or not, I'm not sure, but it certainly has nothing to do with Pythagoras.

(And now, back to our regularly scheduled basketball broadcast. :) )

He didn't say it was the pythagorean theorem,

He said it was as trivial (easy/insignficant) as the theory to detect.

To which I replied with the gambling specialist saying it would have taken 3 years for anyone not involved to catch on, which makes it not so easy/insignificant.

FBI stumbled into the ring while on another investigation with lower level mob.

Once Donaghy got caught, mob gave up on gambling on the NBA or any other sports.

LanceUpperCut
02-07-2014, 01:34 PM
I've only been watching NCAA ball faithfully for 2-3 years now but I honestly can say from what I've seen the Refereeing seem's to be a lot more even and constant.

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 03:04 PM
MJ was a popular superstar, once he left, none to represent his place as a star.

Donaghy said he wasn't alone, he's a convicted criminal, therefore he's lying despite being under oath. If the FBI investigation proved him a liar, he would have only increased his jail time for his statements, which didn't happen.

NBA took over the investigation to save face.

There isn't a single bookmaker that doesn't use data mining algorithms. None of the gambling sites need corrupt referees to cover their spreads. Donaghy tipped off mobs and other syndicates on games to cover his gambling debts. However, none of his recipients could use conventional books because no one would cover their amounts. This makes this grand conspiracy that Donaghy describes even more unlikely as the niche is incredibly small and the opportunity costs are not worth it for most.

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 04:01 PM
(Math nitpick intermission)

Not really. Pythagorean theorem deals with ares of squares formed by sides of right-angle triangles. The predicted wins formula that uses squares of points for/against very loosely resembles the formula Pythagoras came up with, so the name was borrowed to make it sound more legit.

Whether the formula is a good predictor for wins or not, I'm not sure, but it certainly has nothing to do with Pythagoras.

(And now, back to our regularly scheduled basketball broadcast. :) )

I'm not talking about Bill James' formula...lol.

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 04:10 PM
He didn't say it was the pythagorean theorem,

He said it was as trivial (easy/insignficant) as the theory to detect.

To which I replied with the gambling specialist saying it would have taken 3 years for anyone not involved to catch on, which makes it not so easy/insignificant.

FBI stumbled into the ring while on another investigation with lower level mob.

Once Donaghy got caught, mob gave up on gambling on the NBA or any other sports.

I was referring to regression analysis tools...so yes, I was referring to the theorem.

B2B
02-07-2014, 05:01 PM
There isn't a single bookmaker that doesn't use data mining algorithms. None of the gambling sites need corrupt referees to cover their spreads. Donaghy tipped off mobs and other syndicates on games to cover his gambling debts. However, none of his recipients could use conventional books because no one would cover their amounts. This makes this grand conspiracy that Donaghy describes even more unlikely as the niche is incredibly small and the opportunity costs are not worth it for most.

FBI investigation revealed Donaghy placed 10's of thousands in bets on game. In 06/07 he was approached by the mob to work on a gambling scheme.

Mike Missanelli of The Stephen A. Smith Show suggested that Donaghy had gotten himself into debt and tried to make it up by betting on games.

Handicapper Brandon Lang told ESPN that it is fairly easy for a crooked sports official to fix a game, despite Stern's insistence that Donaghy was a "rogue official". According to Lang, an official can directly influence the outcome of a game 75 percent of the time if he has money on the game. Lang also believed that a bookie connected to the mob turned Donaghy in to the FBI

Some of his documented tip offs came in games he was not reffing in.

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 05:43 PM
FBI investigation revealed Donaghy placed 10's of thousands in bets on game. In 06/07 he was approached by the mob to work on a gambling scheme.

Mike Missanelli of The Stephen A. Smith Show suggested that Donaghy had gotten himself into debt and tried to make it up by betting on games.

Handicapper Brandon Lang told ESPN that it is fairly easy for a crooked sports official to fix a game, despite Stern's insistence that Donaghy was a "rogue official". According to Lang, an official can directly influence the outcome of a game 75 percent of the time if he has money on the game. Lang also believed that a bookie connected to the mob turned Donaghy in to the FBI

Some of his documented tip offs came in games he was not reffing in.

Donaghy admitted he had a gambling addiction. Part of his sentence included rehabilitation and treatment for addiction. Gambling accusations came up in a civil lawsuit with his neighbours and the NBA looked into gambling accusations bets made during the case. They found none nor did they find unusual gambling activity but Donaghy was suspended for gambling nonetheless His gambling addiction led to debt which forced him to provide tips to his creditor (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/21/sports/basketball/21referee.html?ref=timdonaghy). I find it hard to believe that all NBA personnel have gambling addictions.

He was charged for tipping off 2 games he reffed for. Other "documented" tip offs and allegations were found to be baseless by the FBI and the NBA nor was there evidence of Donaghy's assertions of a league wide conspiracy. This was originally the scope of the FBI investigation. Vegas, NBA and independent parties could not find an established statistical relation which implies that Donaghy is the outlier.

To this day, the NBA continues to conduct its own as well as hiring independent companies to conduct statistical tests as part of its annual reviews.

Handicappers talk big to sell their handicap services. It's why Donaghy blatantly lied about the spread so he could drum up business for refpicks.com. Lang obviously doesn't know anything because both Donaghy and the NBA agree that he wasn't guilty of fixing games, he was guilty for covering the spread.

You're free to believe whatever you want to believe B2B, but you still haven't established why Donaghy was not an unlikely event nor have you provided a cogent argument for this league wide conspiracy.

B2B
02-07-2014, 06:34 PM
Donaghy admitted he had a gambling addiction. Part of his sentence included rehabilitation and treatment for addiction. Gambling accusations came up in a civil lawsuit with his neighbours and the NBA looked into gambling accusations bets made during the case. They found none nor did they find unusual gambling activity but Donaghy was suspended for gambling nonetheless His gambling addiction led to debt which forced him to provide tips to his creditor (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/21/sports/basketball/21referee.html?ref=timdonaghy). I find it hard to believe that all NBA personnel have gambling addictions.

He was charged for tipping off 2 games he reffed for. Other "documented" tip offs and allegations were found to be baseless by the FBI and the NBA nor was there evidence of Donaghy's assertions of a league wide conspiracy. This was originally the scope of the FBI investigation. Vegas, NBA and independent parties could not find an established statistical relation which implies that Donaghy is the outlier.

To this day, the NBA continues to conduct its own as well as hiring independent companies to conduct statistical tests as part of its annual reviews.

Handicappers talk big to sell their handicap services. It's why Donaghy blatantly lied about the spread so he could drum up business for refpicks.com. Lang obviously doesn't know anything because both Donaghy and the NBA agree that he wasn't guilty of fixing games, he was guilty for covering the spread.

You're free to believe whatever you want to believe B2B, but you still haven't established why Donaghy was not an unlikely event nor have you provided a cogent argument for this league wide conspiracy.

While I can't prove the gambling effect, the widely accepted "superstar" call is proof the league caters to popularity & ratings. Once they show they can bend the rules in any matter, is all the proof I need. Ever heard the saying if you can lie, you can kill.

Right now Donaghy is making 50 g annually working as a sport handicapper betting on Basketball for a man convicted to federal gambling & wired fraud, Danny Barelli.

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 06:59 PM
While I can't prove the gambling effect, the widely accepted "superstar" call is proof the league caters to popularity & ratings. Once they show they can bend the rules in any matter, is all the proof I need. Ever heard the saying if you can lie, you can kill.

Right now Donaghy is making 50 g annually working as a sport handicapper betting on Basketball for a man convicted to federal gambling & wired fraud, Danny Barelli.

It's human perception and bias. If you think someone is good at what they do you generally give them the benefit of the doubt. It's how we compartmentalize information so we can process it faster. It's not malevolence, it's just automatic cognitive processes.

Eh, I bet they make more scamming money from people off of Donaghy's notoriety than they do from picks.

B2B
02-07-2014, 07:43 PM
It's human perception and bias. If you think someone is good at what they do you generally give them the benefit of the doubt. It's how we compartmentalize information so we can process it faster. It's not malevolence, it's just automatic cognitive processes.

Eh, I bet they make more scamming money from people off of Donaghy's notoriety than they do from picks.

Unfortunately, that's the problem, the calls league wide, not just Raptor related have me questioning their ability/motive. I can no longer give them the benefit of doubt. I assume you think the officials are good at what they do?.

The foul on George for the 4 point play to send the Indiana game against the Kings to overtime, the ref blew the whistle as soon as Williams lifted his arm, he didn't even wait for a point of contact. Replay shows no contact by a good 6 inches.

In our game besides the Lowry call, in the last 5 mins Cousins held the ball like a football after he scored baseline with no delay of game tech. One play missed is one thing, combine those 2 plays with 50 FT's & you have me questioning their motive for the game. I've watched players get a tech for touching the ball as soon as it falls through the hoop. Here Cousins is holding the ball baseline for a minute while Jonas is trying to wrestle it away with the clock ticking.

That group, is currently under investigation.

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 08:04 PM
Unfortunately, that's the problem, the calls league wide, not just Raptor related have me questioning their ability/motive. I can no longer give them the benefit of doubt. I assume you think the officials are good at what they do?.

The foul on George for the 4 point play to send the Indiana game against the Kings to overtime, the ref blew the whistle as soon as Williams lifted his arm, he didn't even wait for a point of contact. Replay shows no contact by a good 6 inches.

In our game besides the Lowry call, in the last 5 mins Cousins held the ball like a football after he scored baseline with no delay of game tech. One play missed is one thing, combine those 2 plays with 50 FT's & you have me questioning their motive for the game. I've watched players get a tech for touching the ball as soon as it falls through the hoop. Here Cousins is holding the ball baseline for a minute while Jonas is trying to wrestle it away with the clock ticking.

That group, is currently under investigation.

You assume wrong. I happen to think basketball is one of the hardest games to ref, I just also don't happen to think there's a league conspiracy involving gambling and other acts of malevolence. Referee turnover is difficult because as we saw with the replacement referees with the NFL, the quality over the norm wasn't any better.

I think certain changes can be implemented like more referees, ability to overrule calls etc that might be able to create for more consistency and parity. The competition committee is not made up of NBA execs, it's made up of players, coaches and GMs. The board of governors is made of of some of the league's most passionate owners. If they there needs to be change, change will occur.

However, at the end of the day, I don't see conspiracy. I see incompetence.

Where does it say that refpicks is under investigation?

B2B
02-07-2014, 08:11 PM
You assume wrong. I happen to think basketball is one of the hardest games to ref, I just also don't happen to think there's a league conspiracy involving gambling and other acts of malevolence. Referee turnover is difficult because as we saw with the replacement referees with the NFL, the quality over the norm wasn't any better.

I think certain changes can be implemented like more referees, ability to overrule calls etc that might be able to create for more consistency and parity. The competition committee is not made up of NBA execs, it's made up of players, coaches and GMs. The board of governors is made of of some of the league's most passionate owners. If they there needs to be change, change will occur.

However, at the end of the day, I don't see conspiracy. I see incompetence.

Where does it say that refpicks is under investigation?

No, Donaghy's betting partnership is under investigation.

If the league wants more fluid calls add a 4th video ref. Give the refs on the floor an ear piece & mike.

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 08:22 PM
No, Donaghy's betting partnership is under investigation.

If the league wants more fluid calls add a 4th video ref. Give the refs on the floor an ear piece & mike.

Source?

If refs had an ear piece and a mike, fans will just assume Silver is calling shots from above. Again, if refereeing is a huge problem, the board of governors and the competition committee will create change regardless of their incompetence or illegal gambling (if that's what you believe).

B2B
02-07-2014, 08:27 PM
Source?

If refs had an ear piece and a mike, fans will just assume Silver is calling shots from above. Again, if refereeing is a huge problem, the board of governors and the competition committee will create change regardless of their incompetence or illegal gambling (if that's what you believe).

I believe there are far more factors than gambling potentially controlling calls, popularity & ratings are my number 1 reason for bias in officiating.

Only way that would happen, is if you continue to notice the officials controlling the game, more than the players. Someone made joke about implementing robots, my response is they would program the same preferential mandate into them to ensure ratings & marketability.

B2B
02-07-2014, 08:28 PM
source http://calvinayre.com/2012/07/06/sports/tim-donaghy-is-now-handicapping-the-nba-for-a-convicted-sports-capper/

Freakazoid
02-07-2014, 09:18 PM
I believe there are far more factors than gambling potentially controlling calls, popularity & ratings are my number 1 reason for bias in officiating.

Only way that would happen, is if you continue to notice the officials controlling the game, more than the players. Someone made joke about implementing robots, my response is they would program the same preferential mandate into them to ensure ratings & marketability.

The NBA doesn't need referees to ensure ratings and marketability. The NBA and its owners have above average marketing personnel. Even the Milwaukee Bucks are more social media friendly than the richest NFL teams. Take for instance video copyright. I can't remember the last time I saw a youtube video taken down for copyright infringement. I can for MLB and UFC. The NBA is probably the most liberal sports organization when it comes to that. Look at NBA commercials and social media numbers. They're more in touch with the current generation of fans than any other league. The NBA was the first to experiment with viral marketing. It's no wonder Silver and every other analyst thinks the NBA can overtake the NFL in America.

ink
02-07-2014, 11:58 PM
Trying to decide which is more absurd, the terrible call on Lowry the other night or the conspiracy theories in this thread.

Freakazoid
02-08-2014, 12:16 AM
Just checked Donaghy's handicap record (52%), it's atrocious. You're basically paying him $6000 to lose you money.

B2B
02-11-2014, 12:03 PM
The NBA doesn't need referees to ensure ratings and marketability. The NBA and its owners have above average marketing personnel. Even the Milwaukee Bucks are more social media friendly than the richest NFL teams. Take for instance video copyright. I can't remember the last time I saw a youtube video taken down for copyright infringement. I can for MLB and UFC. The NBA is probably the most liberal sports organization when it comes to that. Look at NBA commercials and social media numbers. They're more in touch with the current generation of fans than any other league. The NBA was the first to experiment with viral marketing. It's no wonder Silver and every other analyst thinks the NBA can overtake the NFL in America.

While everything you said may be true. NBA's main source for marketing is off the names of individuals, MJ, Lebron, Kobe, Durant, Blake.. George..

MJ's individual popularity single handily took the NBA to a new level of exposure/marketing. (Air Jordans) Multi million dollar shoe deals etc. Superstar calls control this perception of individual greatness, where everyone wants to be like Mike.

Donaghy's comment of Raja bell receiving poor treatment because he was capable of making Kobe look human backed an original belief, whether anyone else wants to believe it or not.

If Blake makes a spectacular highlight dunk, anyone think officials calling it back because he travelled. I've seen endless ESPN highlights where Blake's amazing highlight, was a clear travel violation.

Kia ads, NBA Blake sponsor, don't agree.

If you don't believe the NBA needs the officials to maintain this level of perception. What is your reason behind the superstar call?.

ink
02-11-2014, 03:29 PM
There was a good comment on a recent NBA broadcast: players that have established that they attack and challenge defences are likely to get calls because their aggressiveness often has defenders fouling just to keep up. Pretty logical. Over time they begin to get benefit of the doubt calls. We have seen DD start to earn this treatment.