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nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 12:08 PM
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Western Conf teams suggest the Rangers are gathering intel on Chris Stewart

nyr1980
01-31-2014, 01:42 PM
He'd bring size, that's for sure. But he's not really a top-6, IMO.

I know he had a couple of great seasons, back 4-5 seasons ago with Colorado and then the following season where he split between Colorado and St. Louis, where he had close to 60 goals in those two seasons, and I think he missed like 20 games the year he was traded.

But he hasn't topped 20 goals since. He's on pace to score about 25 this season, but he's been up and down, and he's only playing 13 and change a night.

It's intriguing for sure. I'm assuming this would be one up for Cally. It's not a bad return. But if they throw in a pick and a prospect, I'd like it better.

I think if they're dealing Cally, the return needs to be excellent.

nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 01:52 PM
He'd bring size, that's for sure. But he's not really a top-6, IMO.

I know he had a couple of great seasons, back 4-5 seasons ago with Colorado and then the following season where he split between Colorado and St. Louis, where he had close to 60 goals in those two seasons, and I think he missed like 20 games the year he was traded.

But he hasn't topped 20 goals since. He's on pace to score about 25 this season, but he's been up and down, and he's only playing 13 and change a night.

It's intriguing for sure. I'm assuming this would be one up for Cally. It's not a bad return. But if they throw in a pick and a prospect, I'd like it better.

I think if they're dealing Cally, the return needs to be excellent.


Im sure its straight up. You have to think they are saying the same thing about callys#s.

J4KOP99
01-31-2014, 01:55 PM
I know some of us are willing and even in favor of trading away cally but I don't see any way sather does it. It would be a pr nightmare. Glenn also does not have that type of foresight. No way it happens in the middle of this season.

nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 02:04 PM
I know some of us are willing and even in favor of trading away cally but I don't see any way sather does it. It would be a pr nightmare. Glenn also does not have that type of foresight. No way it happens in the middle of this season.

Its also a PR nightmare if he doesnt and Cally walks and we get nothing in return

bsi
01-31-2014, 02:13 PM
If Stewart is signed a straight up trade makes sense, but if we are trading UFAs then it doesnt.

QUBobcats550
01-31-2014, 02:20 PM
Stewart is signed through next season at 4.1 mil. I don't like this return one bit.

nyr1980
01-31-2014, 02:23 PM
I don't like the idea of losing him at all. But what I like less is paying him for more than 5 years. I'd be willing to give him more money over those 5 years too.

I think for Callahan, a 5 year deal worth between 28 and 31 mill is a great deal for him, and a deal I'd be comfortable with. While they can't do front-loaded, decreasing contracts to the degree the last CBA allowed, they can do that to some degree with this deal. That way, if they get into years 4 & 5, he's easier to deal if needed.

Something in the structure of the following:

2014-15- 7 mil
2015-16- 7 mil
2016-17- 6 mil
2017-18- 5 mil
2018-19- 5 mil

metswon69
01-31-2014, 02:23 PM
Its also a PR nightmare if he doesnt and Cally walks and we get nothing in return

This. They can't let Cally go for nothing and that's a real possibility considering how far apart they are in contract negotiations.

bsi
01-31-2014, 03:00 PM
I don't like the idea of losing him at all. But what I like less is paying him for more than 5 years. I'd be willing to give him more money over those 5 years too.

I think for Callahan, a 5 year deal worth between 28 and 31 mill is a great deal for him, and a deal I'd be comfortable with. While they can't do front-loaded, decreasing contracts to the degree the last CBA allowed, they can do that to some degree with this deal. That way, if they get into years 4 & 5, he's easier to deal if needed.

Something in the structure of the following:

2014-15- 7 mil
2015-16- 7 mil
2016-17- 6 mil
2017-18- 5 mil
2018-19- 5 mil

I am sorry but Callahan isn't a 6 million dollar a year player doesn't matter how its spread out. Realistically he should be on the third line as Zuccarello is out producing him, out hitting him and just all around outplaying him. He is worth no more than 5 over a long term deal IMO.

nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 03:13 PM
I am sorry but Callahan isn't a 6 million dollar a year player doesn't matter how its spread out. Realistically he should be on the third line as Zuccarello is out producing him, out hitting him and just all around outplaying him. He is worth no more than 5 over a long term deal IMO.


I keep saying 5/25 would be my ceiling on Cally

SLY WILLIAMS
01-31-2014, 03:31 PM
I like and respect Cally a lot. I just think the money and years Cally is asking for is financial insanity. He may end up with 35 points this season and its a contract year. I'd rather gets some picks and/or some high prospects instead of Stewart if a trade happens.

QUBobcats550
01-31-2014, 03:59 PM
I keep saying 5/25 would be my ceiling on Cally

My thoughts exactly. That would be an extremely fair contract.

nyr1980
01-31-2014, 04:06 PM
I am sorry but Callahan isn't a 6 million dollar a year player doesn't matter how its spread out. Realistically he should be on the third line as Zuccarello is out producing him, out hitting him and just all around outplaying him. He is worth no more than 5 over a long term deal IMO.

I totally agree. He's not, never has been, and never will be worth 6 a year. 5 per, or I thst range is fair for him. But you must remember 3 things, which you undoubtedly already know:

1) That's his asking price and as a UFA, he has all the leverage.
2) Someone will give him that number, and they'll likely give him 6-7 seasons in term, this summer.
3) To keep him, though I think he loves NY, being a Ranger, and wants to stay, they'll have to in some way come to him and that will likely come in the way of more dollars as I think the bigger point of contetion is term.

If they want to keep him and do it on a 5 year deal, which is the term I think the organisation is shooting for, they're gonna have to give him in the neighborhood, or in slight upwards of 6 a year.

nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 04:09 PM
I totally agree. He's not, never has been, and never will be worth 6 a year. 5 per, or I thst range is fair for him. But you must remember 3 things, which you undoubtedly already know:

1) That's his asking price and as a UFA, he has all the leverage.
2) Someone will give him that number, and they'll likely give him 6-7 seasons in term, this summer.
3) To keep him, though I think he loves NY, being a Ranger, and wants to stay, they'll have to in some way come to him and that will likely come in the way of more dollars as I think the bigger point of contetion is term.

If they want to keep him and do it on a 5 year deal, which is the term I think the organisation is shooting for, they're gonna have to give him in the neighborhood, or in slight upwards of 6 a year.

Trade him then if thats the case because even 5 and 30 is a no go for me

redwhiteandblue
01-31-2014, 04:18 PM
If Stewart is signed a straight up trade makes sense, but if we are trading UFAs then it doesnt.
This.

nyr1980
01-31-2014, 04:25 PM
Trade him then if thats the case because even 5 and 30 is a no go for me

Also a valid point. I agree 6 per is high. Guess it comes down to what each of us values more. Is it having him and paying him more than he's worth and watching him diminish and be less worth the money. Or, try to replace a guy whose been so important.

nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 04:45 PM
Also a valid point. I agree 6 per is high. Guess it comes down to what each of us values more. Is it having him and paying him more than he's worth and watching him diminish and be less worth the money. Or, try to replace a guy whose been so important.


I agree he has been important for sure. He is my favorite player on this team by FAR. But i want to see this team win and contend long term and if he wants to much we cant do that. I would still hate to see hi go and i hope he puts his ego aside and comes to a fair deal

nyr1980
01-31-2014, 05:17 PM
I agree he has been important for sure. He is my favorite player on this team by FAR. But i want to see this team win and contend long term and if he wants to much we cant do that. I would still hate to see hi go and i hope he puts his ego aside and comes to a fair deal

Agree. But if it does wind up at 5 years with around (give or take either way) 6 vs the cap, it's ok. Cap will continue to increase and his deal will be a decreasing % vs that cap each year. It's a doable ballpark.

nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 07:56 PM
Agree. But if it does wind up at 5 years with around (give or take either way) 6 vs the cap, it's ok. Cap will continue to increase and his deal will be a decreasing % vs that cap each year. It's a doable ballpark.

Dude no it wouldn't. You can't give a 3rd liner 6 mil. I just saw the rangers have granted permission to at least one team who has already spoke with Callys agent

brooklynswede09
01-31-2014, 11:07 PM
I'm a fan of what Cally brings to the table, but in all reality he's a 3rd line player with intangibles. $6 mill is way too high for a bottom 6 forward, especially when you have Zucc getting 3rd line minutes when he should be with Richards and Hags. Also, I think they should move him for prospects and picks. Currently in Hartford the Rangers have Miller and Fast that could easily slide into a 3rd line role, not to mention next season with Lindberg and Kristo competing for a roster spot. The Rangers won't win the Cup this year, saving $6 mill in cap space and promoting a young player and using that $6 to go after Moulson or Vanek in my opinion is the smart move. The Black and Blue Shirt Era is over, this team is going to live and die with speed, skill and transition.

nyr1980
01-31-2014, 11:12 PM
Dude no it wouldn't. You can't give a 3rd liner 6 mil. I just saw the rangers have granted permission to at least one team who has already spoke with Callys agent

Again, I don't think he's a player worth 6 a year. By no means. But also, again, remember he's a UFA, so he has all the leverage, and someone will give him what he wants- be it term or dollars, or both. If Nathan Horton and David Clarkson got 7/31 and 7/36.75 last summer with this cap, someone will give Cally a comparable deal with the cap going up 8-10% this summer in all likelihood. Or they'll give him a year or two less, but bump up the dollars. He's getting close to what he wants regardless, and if they want to keep him, it's what they'll have to do.

His contract, at 6 for example, will be offset by the increase in cap. I agree 6 is high for him, but not ridiculously high. He's comparable to Dustin Brown, who costs 5.875 vs the cap. I think Brown's better, and he's captained a team to a Cup, but his number is a bit low due to it being an 8 year deal. And in reality, you're not offsetting the 6, but the difference between the 6 and what your ideal is.

Ideally, I'd like to have Cally at 5 years for about 5.5 annually vs the cap. But if he wants a 7 year deal, the only way you get him to budge is more money.

My only point is that you're more flexibilty in giving him 6 as the cap goes up.

Also, I see your point on calling him a 3rd liner. I know the production is down and he's had injuries, and I think that 3-4 seasons from now, he'll be a 3rd. But he's playing 18 mins a night, kills penalties, hits, blocks shots, leads etc. He's a top-6 still. But I will totally acknowledge what I believe is your point, that it's hard to give a guy that amount if the goals aren't coming.

nyr2002nyr
01-31-2014, 11:42 PM
Again, I don't think he's a player worth 6 a year. By no means. But also, again, remember he's a UFA, so he has all the leverage, and someone will give him what he wants- be it term or dollars, or both. If Nathan Horton and David Clarkson got 7/31 and 7/36.75 last summer with this cap, someone will give Cally a comparable deal with the cap going up 8-10% this summer in all likelihood. Or they'll give him a year or two less, but bump up the dollars. He's getting close to what he wants regardless, and if they want to keep him, it's what they'll have to do.

His contract, at 6 for example, will be offset by the increase in cap. I agree 6 is high for him, but not ridiculously high. He's comparable to Dustin Brown, who costs 5.875 vs the cap. I think Brown's better, and he's captained a team to a Cup, but his number is a bit low due to it being an 8 year deal. And in reality, you're not offsetting the 6, but the difference between the 6 and what your ideal is.

Ideally, I'd like to have Cally at 5 years for about 5.5 annually vs the cap. But if he wants a 7 year deal, the only way you get him to budge is more money.

My only point is that you're more flexibilty in giving him 6 as the cap goes up.

Also, I see your point on calling him a 3rd liner. I know the production is down and he's had injuries, and I think that 3-4 seasons from now, he'll be a 3rd. But he's playing 18 mins a night, kills penalties, hits, blocks shots, leads etc. He's a top-6 still. But I will totally acknowledge what I believe is your point, that it's hard to give a guy that amount if the goals aren't coming.

His ice time has dropped 5 minutes per game under AV. HE is a 3rd liner under the new coach.

bsi
01-31-2014, 11:50 PM
Callahan says his heart is in NY, we'll see if it's his heart or bank.

nyr1980
01-31-2014, 11:56 PM
His ice time has dropped 5 minutes per game under AV. HE is a 3rd liner under the new coach.

It's down less than 4 minutes to be exact. And he's still playing just under 18 mins a night. That's top-6.

And it's down in part due to injuries he had. But the big reasons are due to AV rolling 4 lines, which Torts doesn't do, and because he's not seeing time on the PP, which is largely due to Brass-Zuccs-Pouliot having so much success there.

He's only played 39 games. When you figure that, plus the time he's not getting on the PP, one could argue there's the goals he's missing.

Don't get me wrong, I believe eventually, he's a third liner. But not yet.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 12:00 AM
Anyone actually know what the Rangers have offered Cally, out of curiosity?

Sandman
02-01-2014, 12:11 AM
If Stewart is signed a straight up trade makes sense, but if we are trading UFAs then it doesnt.


Stewart is signed through next season at 4.1 mil. I don't like this return one bit.

Sounds like a punt instead of giving Callahan a long term deal.

Not sure if I blame them if his asking price is as advertised.

Stewart can fill some of Callahan's roles on the ice. If we did this with a guy like Dubinsky it makes sense, but you're talking about trading the captain just as the team is clicking.

Damn, this is tough.

bsi
02-01-2014, 12:13 AM
Anyone actually know what the Rangers have offered Cally, out of curiosity?

5 years 30 million...seems more than fair to me.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 12:16 AM
5 years 30 million...seems fair to me.

Yeah. About what I would expect. I do think 6 is a bit too high, but not ridiculously high.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 12:18 AM
Sounds like a punt instead of giving Callahan a long term deal.

Not sure if I blame them if his asking price is as advertised.

Stewart can fill some of Callahan's roles on the ice. If we did this with a guy like Dubinsky it makes sense, but you're talking about trading the captain just as the team is clicking.

Damn, this is tough.

That's the rub. What happens to the team now, when as you said they're playing very well, and you trade your captain?

And who steps into that role?

J4KOP99
02-01-2014, 12:24 AM
This type of trade is really unprecedented. Trading your captain in the middle of a season where you're team is doing well and is starting to play better. Crazy stuff if this happens.

Sandman
02-01-2014, 12:26 AM
That's the rub. What happens to the team now, when as you said they're playing very well, and you trade your captain?

And who steps into that role?
Really not sure. I always thought maybe Kreider but eventually, not now.

Maybe Staal? I dont think Nash would get the C but he's our best skater you never know.

I think it'd end up being Richards in the short term.

This is probably understated too, I'd bet our record with Callahan this season is pretty good. He gave the team a jolt when he first came back.

Though staying on the ice is part of the problem too.

This is an easy one to screw up either way. Tough situation.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 12:57 AM
Really not sure. I always thought maybe Kreider but eventually, not now.

Maybe Staal? I dont think Nash would get the C but he's our best skater you never know.

I think it'd end up being Richards in the short term.

This is probably understated too, I'd bet our record with Callahan this season is pretty good. He gave the team a jolt when he first came back.

Though staying on the ice is part of the problem too.

This is an easy one to screw up either way. Tough situation.

21-16-2 with Callahan
9-7-1 w/o Callahan.

nyr2002nyr
02-01-2014, 01:09 AM
Really not sure. I always thought maybe Kreider but eventually, not now.

Maybe Staal? I dont think Nash would get the C but he's our best skater you never know.

I think it'd end up being Richards in the short term.

This is probably understated too, I'd bet our record with Callahan this season is pretty good. He gave the team a jolt when he first came back.

Though staying on the ice is part of the problem too.

This is an easy one to screw up either way. Tough situation.


It's Staal or Richards. Has to be one if the assistants. Not gonna jump over them mid season. I would like to see McDonugh get at least an A next season.

Redfish
02-01-2014, 07:56 AM
I thought it was very poor form, at the very least, for Sather to let Callahan learn from the press, in the locker room, the NYR gave permission to Callahan's agent to speak with other teams.

I understand, with some players, that may be a pressure tactic or some headgame a GM will play to get a player to come down on terms, but it's not acceptable for Callahan, in my view.

bsi
02-01-2014, 11:18 AM
Really not sure. I always thought maybe Kreider but eventually, not now.

Maybe Staal? I dont think Nash would get the C but he's our best skater you never know.

I think it'd end up being Richards in the short term.

This is probably understated too, I'd bet our record with Callahan this season is pretty good. He gave the team a jolt when he first came back.

Though staying on the ice is part of the problem too.

This is an easy one to screw up either way. Tough situation.

21-16-2 with Callahan
9-7-1 w/o Callahan.

That stat is terribly misleading...they started to play well just before he came back.

bsi
02-01-2014, 11:20 AM
Sounds like a punt instead of giving Callahan a long term deal.

Not sure if I blame them if his asking price is as advertised.

Stewart can fill some of Callahan's roles on the ice. If we did this with a guy like Dubinsky it makes sense, but you're talking about trading the captain just as the team is clicking.

Damn, this is tough.

That's the rub. What happens to the team now, when as you said they're playing very well, and you trade your captain?

And who steps into that role?

Dan Girardi or Brad Richards. Richards if they are keeping him Girardi if not.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 11:55 AM
That stat is terribly misleading...they started to play well just before he came back.

It actually shakes out to about even.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 01:33 PM
I thought it was very poor form, at the very least, for Sather to let Callahan learn from the press, in the locker room, the NYR gave permission to Callahan's agent to speak with other teams.

I understand, with some players, that may be a pressure tactic or some headgame a GM will play to get a player to come down on terms, but it's not acceptable for Callahan, in my view.

I don't know how true that is. I gotta believe if they allowed his agent to talk to other teams, then his agent likely let him know. Callahan may just have taken the high road on it by saying he was unaware. But if it's true he didn't know, youre right. He should have been told beforehand, preferably by the team.

Either way though, I like the tactic. It lets Callahan and his camp know what's out there and who's willing to give what. I'm assuming there is likely a short list of teams he'd be willing to sign with. If none are willing to exceed to his contract demands, well that helps us.

While I think there is a team out there that would give him a 7-year deal, as well as reach, exceed, or at least approach 6 per, there may not be, or it may be only from teams that he's not particularly interested in.

If what's been reported by the Post and Katie Strang at ESPN, that the Rangers want Cally to come to a decision prior to the Olympic break, then it will be an interesting week.

Redfish
02-01-2014, 01:35 PM
I don't know how true that is. I gotta believe if they allowed his agent to talk to other teams, then his agent likely let him know. Callahan may just have taken the high road on it by saying he was unaware. But if it's true he didn't know, youre right. He should have been told beforehand, preferably by the team.

Either way though, I like the tactic. It lets Callahan and his camp know what's out there and who's willing to give what. I'm assuming there is likely a short list of teams he'd be willing to sign with. If none are willing to exceed to his contract demands, well that helps us.

While I think there is a team out there that would give him a 7-year deal, as well as reach, exceed, or at least approach 6 per, there may not be, or it may be only from teams that he's not particularly interested in.

If what's been reported by the Post and Katie Strang at ESPN, that the Rangers want Cally to come to a decision prior to the Olympic break, then it will be an interesting week.

Callahan was interviewed in the locker-room after the game and when asked, he replied: "that's news to me."

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 01:42 PM
Callahan was interviewed in the locker-room after the game and when asked, he replied: "that's news to me."

Yeah, I saw that. Just not 100% on whether that's the case, or he's taking the high road.

Not wanting to question his honesty or integrity, but he may have been told to answer that way by his representation. Entirely possible in a negotiation that has become very public and that involves a hell of a lot of money.

SLY WILLIAMS
02-01-2014, 02:12 PM
Slats letting his agent talk to other teams is the exact right move in this situation for both Cally and for the team. In my opinion the numbers Cally is reportedly asking for is nuts. Maybe by allowing his agent to talk to another team about the contract they will bring the negotiations in to a more realistic place.

Redfish
02-01-2014, 02:48 PM
Yeah, I saw that. Just not 100% on whether that's the case, or he's taking the high road.

Not wanting to question his honesty or integrity, but he may have been told to answer that way by his representation. Entirely possible in a negotiation that has become very public and that involves a hell of a lot of money.

I see, good point.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 02:50 PM
Slats letting his agent talk to other teams is the exact right move in this situation for both Cally and for the team. In my opinion the numbers Cally is reportedly asking for is nuts. Maybe by allowing his agent to talk to another team about the contract they will bring the negotiations in to a more realistic place.

That's my feeling too. While I believe there is a team out there that would give him at least close to what he wants, it may not be one of the teams that would want to acquire him now via trade.

Now, let's assume that those teams that would trade for him (namely legitimately contending teams) would be primarily comprised of the teams where Cally would be considering signing this summer. Not certainty, but I think a reasonable assumption.

If his agent talks to those teams about signing a new deal, and those teams come back in the ballpark of the Rangers offer, as opposed to what Cally is looking for, that is helpful in the interest of keeping him.

bsi
02-01-2014, 04:43 PM
I don't know how true that is. I gotta believe if they allowed his agent to talk to other teams, then his agent likely let him know. Callahan may just have taken the high road on it by saying he was unaware. But if it's true he didn't know, youre right. He should have been told beforehand, preferably by the team.

Either way though, I like the tactic. It lets Callahan and his camp know what's out there and who's willing to give what. I'm assuming there is likely a short list of teams he'd be willing to sign with. If none are willing to exceed to his contract demands, well that helps us.

While I think there is a team out there that would give him a 7-year deal, as well as reach, exceed, or at least approach 6 per, there may not be, or it may be only from teams that he's not particularly interested in.

If what's been reported by the Post and Katie Strang at ESPN, that the Rangers want Cally to come to a decision prior to the Olympic break, then it will be an interesting week.

Callahan was interviewed in the locker-room after the game and when asked, he replied: "that's news to me."

He also said his heart was in NY. Well asking for 42 million shows us that his bank account is here not his heart. He was offered a more than fair contract from NY, he is either going to have to sign it or be traded, I thought the offer given to him was on the high side, cant see Sather going higher.

nyr1980
02-01-2014, 07:18 PM
He also said his heart was in NY. Well asking for 42 million shows us that his bank account is here not his heart. He was offered a more than fair contract from NY, he is either going to have to sign it or be traded, I thought the offer given to him was on the high side, cant see Sather going higher.

Yup. 6 a year and 30 over 5 is a lot, and on the high side for him. It's justfiable to keep him, but IMO, those are the max numbers for him in terms of cap hit, total dollars, and term.

I can never blame anyone though for taking the money. In all professions, it is rare to see anyone leave money on the table. Especially in sports, where even a long career is 15-20 years, max earning years are 5-10 seasons, and it can end at anytime.

IAmARanger18
02-02-2014, 01:00 PM
Callahan is a better player than Stewart, I hope this is not a deal Sather would make.