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james21
01-27-2014, 01:17 PM
Just wondering what happened to him, he showed great promise out of high school, and college. He had a good playoffs last year, is it because he can't see time because of iggy? Has he lost it? And is he a true 2, or 3? Does he have the ball skills, shooting ability, and athletic enough 2 start at a 2 spot? I've been wondering the same things about Marshawn Brooks as well.

Stunner
01-27-2014, 01:21 PM
Iggy is what happen , heard the Bulls has intrest in getting Barnes though .

waveycrockett
01-27-2014, 01:28 PM
Harrison Barnes has all the talent and skills to be an allstar but I noticed he may like something up top. His basketball IQ is lacking hopefully for his sake it's a maturity issue and he will develop that. He is only 21 he has alot of time to grow.

KniCks4LiFe
01-27-2014, 01:53 PM
Iggy is what happened. It hit him hard that he's a bench player.

james21
01-27-2014, 01:56 PM
What position is he best suited for? Cause I don't know why the bulls are interested if they are going all in for melo.

black1605
01-27-2014, 02:02 PM
Iggy is what happened. It hit him hard that he's a bench player.

He's averaging close to 30 minutes a game.

Deception
01-27-2014, 02:02 PM
Wonder what the Dubs would take to trade him? I know a bunch of the posters on the Pistons board bring him up in trade scenarios.

KniCks4LiFe
01-27-2014, 02:08 PM
He's averaging close to 30 minutes a game.

off the bench, it's a mentality.

Stunner
01-27-2014, 02:13 PM
What position is he best suited for? Cause I don't know why the bulls are interested if they are going all in for melo.

Bulls haven't even said they're going in for Melo , Bulls have liked Barnes since the draft . Dubs want Kirk and Bulls like Barnes . I wouldn't be surprised if some type of deal gets done with picks . Warriors won't be able to pay Curry , Klay , Iggy , Bogut and Lee might even come back .

Guppyfighter
01-27-2014, 02:13 PM
off the bench, it's a mentality.


That's probably the dumbest thing I have heard all day.


Barnes is shooting equally as good as everything (about) compared to last year. So what's the difference? His free throw shooting is down by ten percent.

Is playing starter minutes off the bench going to ruin your free throw shooting? That's ****ing dumb.

tredigs
01-27-2014, 02:18 PM
Agreed, this "bench mentality" line is beyond dumb, especially for a 21 year old who doesn't show signs of an ego and likely knows that he's in the role he should be. Considering he started for weeks while Iguodala was out and continued his same rate of play, it's an even weaker case. He's playing more than he did last year and we have needed his production in a major way, but he doesn't have it in him at this point. No improvement from last season save for some solid ISO D.

KniCks4LiFe
01-27-2014, 02:22 PM
That's probably the dumbest thing I have heard all day.


Barnes is shooting equally as good as everything (about) compared to last year. So what's the difference? His free throw shooting is down by ten percent.

Is playing starter minutes off the bench going to ruin your free throw shooting? That's ****ing dumb.

he's playing 26 gms. off the bench this season. The kid isn't improving w/ less mins. There is always a mentality coming off the bench or starting. It happens w/ young players.

Stunner
01-27-2014, 02:24 PM
The bench thing isn't dumb IMO , you have to accept the fact that you aren't starting and embrace it . Barnes has been a starter all of his life , some players just don't preform as well off the bench .

KniCks4LiFe
01-27-2014, 02:28 PM
The bench thing isn't dumb IMO , you have to accept the fact that you aren't starting and embrace it . Barnes has been a starter all of his life , some players just don't preform as well off the bench .

I'm more upset is that homie is a Knicks fan like me not knowing this. Like really homie? how many times didn't we have these discussions w/ Knicks players?

tredigs
01-27-2014, 02:41 PM
he's playing 26 gms. off the bench this season. The kid isn't improving w/ less mins. There is always a mentality coming off the bench or starting. It happens w/ young players.

Edit: read gms as mpg*

Do you have any proof with what you're saying, especially considering his role has increased?

JOSKOMANG4
01-27-2014, 02:48 PM
I honestly believe he would be a great for the Timberwolves.

Warriors acquire kevin Love and filler(Chase Budinger? Luc M.? ) from Wolves in exchanged for David Lee, Harrison Barnes, and future 1st rd pick.

moshy2
01-27-2014, 02:51 PM
Our whole bench has been trash. When he's playing he's usually with a bunch of defensive minded players and Mareese Speights. It's hard for him to excel. I've heard people ask for him to start and move Klay or Iggy to the bench so Barnes is in a better situation and the bench gets a little stronger.

He's usually good at getting himself nice midrange jumpers or getting into the paint, but he struggles at finishing

Jamiecballer
01-27-2014, 03:07 PM
Raptor fans were clamoring for this guy big time and so disappointed when we got Ross instead.

i never really saw much coming out of NC and i haven't really seen anything to change my mind. he's still just a baby though so it's tough to write him off just yet.

i remember at NC in the few games i watched he took some really inadvisable shots at times, long jumper Rudy Gay type stuff. is he still doing that?

TrueFan420
01-27-2014, 03:19 PM
Barnes problem is he is too passive. It's got nothing to do with being on the bench he's got a bigger role and plays more minute than last year. It's in fact the same problem he had last year, he didn't assert himself. The hope was as the focal point of the bench he'd be more aggressive because he wouldn't have to defer to curry, lee and Klay. Remember when he started playing well in the playoffs it was when we went small and played without lee cause of the his injury. Barnes is problem is himself it's got nothing to do with him starting or coming off the bench.

tredigs
01-27-2014, 03:23 PM
^Bingo. You can tell the difference between someone who watches a team and people who just talk about a team.

Goose17
01-27-2014, 03:32 PM
he's playing 26 gms. off the bench this season. The kid isn't improving w/ less mins.

Yeah that's great except he's playing more minutes off the bench than he did as a starter.

On top of that his numbers are similar to last years regular season, people only paid attention during the playoffs, small sample size.


The main problems with Barnes is three things;

1. This is the most important. A lack of confidence/aggression. Barnes is a very athletic player, and yet he constantly settles for jump shots and fade aways, I'm not sure if it's something that's rubbed off on him playing with Curry and Klay or what, but he needs to be more aggressive in attacking the rim. Even if he's wide open he needs to be driving, not shooting from 20+ feet. I'm not certain Barnes is comfortable being a number 1 option (even if it's for the bench)

2. Coach Jackson, I love him, I give him most of the credit for Golden States attempt to become a more defensive minded club. But with Barnes? Coach Jackson naively brought in the entire bench simultaneously in games earlier in the season, I don't see the point in this and it hurt Barnes, why? Barnes is (or was) playing with Douglas, Green and Bazemore. Three very defensive minded guys, so the opposing defense would key in on Barnes as he was the only legitimate offensive threat, that's changing now with Green being more aggressive on offense and Jackson integrating subs with starters, plus the addition of Crawford. But it didn't help early on.

3. He can't create for himself consistently. He played some nice iso last year and played well one on one but not in a consistent manner, he would be better playing with someone who can help create for him until he gets more comfortable.

COOLbeans
01-27-2014, 04:49 PM
Barnes hit his head Very hard while attacking the basket in the playoffs, and he's lacked aggression going to the hole ever since.

WARRIORS@GR
01-27-2014, 07:07 PM
I honestly believe he would be a great for the Timberwolves.

Warriors acquire kevin Love and filler(Chase Budinger? Luc M.? ) from Wolves in exchanged for David Lee, Harrison Barnes, and future 1st rd pick.Where do I sign?

TrueFan420
01-27-2014, 07:11 PM
I honestly believe he would be a great for the Timberwolves.

Warriors acquire kevin Love and filler(Chase Budinger? Luc M.? ) from Wolves in exchanged for David Lee, Harrison Barnes, and future 1st rd pick.
I think every warrior fan would do that deal in a heartbeat. Assuming an extension comes with it.

WARRIORS@GR
01-27-2014, 07:13 PM
Wonder what the Dubs would take to trade him? I know a bunch of the posters on the Pistons board bring him up in trade scenarios.Drummond is the only interesting piece in Detroit,so him.

TrueFan420
01-27-2014, 07:26 PM
Drummond is the only interesting piece in Detroit,so him.

No way they deal Drummond for Barnes. It shouldn't even come to that we should have taken Drummond from the start.

WARRIORS@GR
01-27-2014, 07:33 PM
No way they deal Drummond for Barnes. It shouldn't even come to that we should have taken Drummond from the start.Yea,i didn't say they would do it.I said he's the only interesting piece on the Pistons.Monroe is nice too,but he will want a max-close to max extension,and we sure as hell won't give it to a guy like him.

TrueFan420
01-27-2014, 07:35 PM
Yea,i didn't say they would do it.I said he's the only interesting piece on the Pistons.Monroe is nice too,but he will want a max-close to max extension,and we sure as hell won't give it to a guy like him.

Fair enough

DR_1
01-27-2014, 07:58 PM
Bulls haven't even said they're going in for Melo , Bulls have liked Barnes since the draft . Dubs want Kirk and Bulls like Barnes . I wouldn't be surprised if some type of deal gets done with picks . Warriors won't be able to pay Curry , Klay , Iggy , Bogut and Lee might even come back .
As a Bulls fan I would love a Kirk for Barnes deal.

TrueFan420
01-27-2014, 08:13 PM
As a Bulls fan I would love a Kirk for Barnes deal.

Yea you know there is a zero percent chance that happens right.

CityofChaos
01-28-2014, 02:12 AM
With Harrison, it's hard to point out what he's really good at. Players are known for being outstanding rebounders, defenders, shooters, ball handlers etc. If you could characterize Barnes' game it would be average: he doesn't really stick out because he lacks confidence and aggression.

He's having a terrible season but to say its because hes coming off the bench is foolish (he played off the bench most of the time last season), nor is it because of Iggy. He is still taking the same type of shots but the only difference is is that he isn't making them or driving to the basket as often.

But with that said, it would be foolish to trade him. He's only 21 and more mature than most young players. I would even go out on a limb to say he's ahead of is time: he didn't make as many bone head plays you would expect a rookie to make and played good defense which is why Jackson trusted him last season.

His game needs work but I think he's one of those players who everyone says has potential, but will actually live up to it eventually because he's smart...unlike a guy named Anthony Randolph who everyone thought would be the next Kevin Garnett.

Deception
01-28-2014, 02:19 AM
Yea,i didn't say they would do it.I said he's the only interesting piece on the Pistons.Monroe is nice too,but he will want a max-close to max extension,and we sure as hell won't give it to a guy like him.

I thought the same, but with a player like Bogut, he could replace him and grow with your team. I'm unsure how Bogut has held up with injuries, but that's what he was known for and Monroe would be a huge insurance if anything were to happen. Pistons could throw in Stuckey to help with the offense for the Dubs

EDIT: Just saw he recently signed and extension, doubtful the Warriors would be able to fit a package around Monroe

mdm692
01-28-2014, 02:25 AM
I'll take him on the Suns at SF or PF. Anything you want Warriors fans? Exclude Dragic and Bledsoe.

Duncan = Donkey
01-28-2014, 02:28 AM
I'll take him on the Suns at SF or PF. Anything you want Warriors fans? Exclude Dragic and Bledsoe.

And Plumlee:D

Chronz
01-28-2014, 02:31 AM
LOL, didn't see this thread when I bumped the GSvsHouston thread where I tried telling GS fans not to expect much of a jump from him this year. Coming off the bench is a tough transition most times.

Chronz
01-28-2014, 02:44 AM
Yeah that's great except he's playing more minutes off the bench than he did as a starter.
I'm not certain Barnes is comfortable being a number 1 option (even if it's for the bench)

2. Barnes is (or was) playing with Douglas, Green and Bazemore. Three very defensive minded guys, so the opposing defense would key in on Barnes as he was the only legitimate offensive threat, that's changing now with Green being more aggressive on offense and Jackson integrating subs with starters, plus the addition of Crawford. But it didn't help early on.

3. He can't create for himself consistently. He played some nice iso last year and played well one on one but not in a consistent manner, he would be better playing with someone who can help create for him until he gets more comfortable.

The last time we spoke on the matter you had this to say:

Why would playing on the bench as a 6th man stunt his growth?[ He'll be getting the same minutes (or likely more) than he did last season and he'll be the go-to guy on that second unit.

To which I said;


There are many reasons/variables to consider. Are you 100% positive that hes ready to be a go to option with defenses geared towards stopping him and less of the starters on the floor to support him. People assume that playing against reserves implies an easier environment to put up stats, but benches can comprise of defensive specialists, their offensive players are usually starting to give stars more room to operate.

Damn near prophetic, and I would agree that Jackson did a pretty poor job of staggering his starter minutes for Barnes.

sixer04fan
01-28-2014, 03:06 AM
We'll give you Evan Turner for him. Don't think, just say yes. Do it. Do it now!

We'll throw in Thad too for an expiring and a future first. Accept it!

TrueFan420
01-28-2014, 03:39 AM
We'll give you Evan Turner for him. Don't think, just say yes. Do it. Do it now!

We'll throw in Thad too for an expiring and a future first. Accept it!

Yea not happening... I'd love to add both players but turner will walk at the end of the season. Young if his contract is up as well. And we don't have a first to give. Utah owns that.

Goose17
01-28-2014, 05:20 AM
The last time we spoke on the matter you had this to say:


To which I said;



Damn near prophetic, and I would agree that Jackson did a pretty poor job of staggering his starter minutes for Barnes.

I still don't think it has stunted his growth as a player. Struggling and not gaining experience and growing as a player are not the same thing.

Other than that, you were right.

Goose17
01-28-2014, 05:21 AM
As a Bulls fan I would love a Kirk for Barnes deal.

Throw in Taj and you have a deal.

TrueFan420
01-28-2014, 06:20 PM
Throw in Taj and you have a deal.

Contracts don't work

Goose17
01-28-2014, 08:09 PM
contracts don't work

tpe

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=k3tec8m

SeoulBeatz
01-28-2014, 08:43 PM
Thaddeus Young, Evan Turner, Spencer Hawes, and Kwame Brown's ghost for Harrison Barnes.

SeoulBeatz
01-28-2014, 08:48 PM
It'd be dope to have all my ex-favorite Sixers end up in G.S so I can have someone to root for while the Sixers tank for the foreseeable future.

TrueFan420
01-28-2014, 11:22 PM
tpe

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=k3tec8m

Thought the tpe couldn't be combined with a player. Only a pick.

TrueFan420
01-28-2014, 11:23 PM
Thaddeus Young, Evan Turner, Spencer Hawes, and Kwame Brown's ghost for Harrison Barnes.

Talent wise that would be a freaking steal and I'd love to make it but aren't all 3 expirings? They'd prob all walk which makes it a tough deal to swallow even if that might put us over the top for one year.

NBA_Starter
01-28-2014, 11:54 PM
MKG and Sessions for him?

TrueFan420
01-28-2014, 11:55 PM
MKG and Sessions for him?

Hell no

todu82
01-29-2014, 01:30 AM
Yeah, I thought Barnes would have been a star in the league. He's still young enough to be something in the NBA, let's see how it all pans out for him.

sixer04fan
01-29-2014, 01:48 AM
Hawes is expiring (6.5 M), Turner is expiring (6.7 M) but is a RFA, and Thad has 2 years left on his deal after this season (9.1M and 9.7M).

OaklandsFinest
01-29-2014, 02:24 AM
The only way I trade Barnes is if I can package him with Lee for a guy like Kevin Love or a super legit 4. I think Barnes best position is actually the small ball 4 position and I think the W's would be better off running more of that any way. I love Barnes and want them to develop him. Iggy isn't a spring chicken and has miles on those legs.

Sadds The Gr8
01-29-2014, 02:37 AM
always thought he was overrated in college and that he wouldn't even be an all-star in the NBA. jury is still out tho.

NoahH
01-29-2014, 02:51 AM
Barnes isnt killing it that's true, but he isnt ******** the bed either. He's been just ok, which is what you'd expect from a semi-raw 21 year old. Give him a few years

clehmun
01-29-2014, 04:08 AM
I've always thought he'd turn out to be a Marvin Williams clone.

TrueFan420
01-29-2014, 02:26 PM
always thought he was overrated in college and that he wouldn't even be an all-star in the NBA. jury is still out tho.

Agreed... The all star spot I think he might get one or two but I always saw him at best as deng but better offense while solid defense.

Sly Guy
01-29-2014, 03:52 PM
always thought he was overrated in college and that he wouldn't even be an all-star in the NBA. jury is still out tho.

agreed, I bought into the hype until I started watching him at unc. He can be solid, but not franchise changing.

COOLbeans
01-29-2014, 06:51 PM
Agreed... The all star spot I think he might get one or two but I always saw him at best as deng but better offense while solid defense.

If Barnes turns into a slightly better Deng then that's a great pick getting Barnes at 7 in That draft

TrueFan420
01-29-2014, 10:38 PM
If Barnes turns into a slightly better Deng then that's a great pick getting Barnes at 7 in That draft

Didn't say slightly better said same player but flipped better offense and good defense compared to deng who is better defense and good offense. But yea he'd still be a good player. But Drummond will be much better in the long run.

Chronz
01-30-2014, 03:05 AM
He's having a terrible season but to say its because hes coming off the bench is foolish (he played off the bench most of the time last season)
Agreed, hes had a horrible season, but he literally started every game he played last year. This year hes started about 33% of his games, in those games hes shot 45%, compared to 39% off the bench.

Duncan = Donkey
01-30-2014, 03:50 AM
Going to the bench has really hindered him

Goose17
01-30-2014, 05:59 AM
Going to the bench has really hindered him

How so?

Duncan = Donkey
01-30-2014, 06:19 AM
How so?

I don't know it just has, He is averaging 6.7 pts and shooting 35% when coming off he bench this year.

Goose17
01-30-2014, 07:01 AM
I don't know it just has, He is averaging 6.7 pts and shooting 35% when coming off he bench this year.

I'm just asking because he plays more minutes off the bench than he did as a starter, so it's not that. Psychological issue maybe?

Chronz
01-30-2014, 07:34 PM
How so?
Because (as I told you in the predictions thread) coming off the bench has historically stunted statistical growth. Sure, plenty of players have thrived in that role, but the MAJORITY, tend to suffer when playing alongside inferior teammates. I think only stars thrive in that role but Ive never checked out the trends.

NBA_Starter
01-30-2014, 11:48 PM
Hell no

I had to try :shrug:

Guppyfighter
01-31-2014, 06:13 AM
Because (as I told you in the predictions thread) coming off the bench has historically stunted statistical growth. Sure, plenty of players have thrived in that role, but the MAJORITY, tend to suffer when playing alongside inferior teammates. I think only stars thrive in that role but Ive never checked out the trends.

This seems to be a classic case of reversing cause and effect. Typically players aren't going to the bench to perform a sixth man role. They are going to the bench because their production has slipped.

Those who go to the sixth man role to perform as that typically do extremely well.

Chronz
01-31-2014, 02:33 PM
This seems to be a classic case of reversing cause and effect. Typically players aren't going to the bench to perform a sixth man role. They are going to the bench because their production has slipped.
I guess I cant refute that without looking at what the study examined but I do think they controlled for player decline, doubt they looked at career splits.

Sometimes coaches will put a superior player on the bench to allow an inferior player to get going with the starters (along with the benefit of having an elite 6th man). Like when Pop said he wanted Finley starting so that he could actually play with the starters and get into the game and sure enough, Finley's production throughout his Spurs tenure was slightly better as a starter. Thats how you control for those factors, by finding these type of situations where the player is the same guy but in a different role. Guys who split their time fairly equally would be the best to look at.


Those who go to the sixth man role to perform as that typically do extremely well.
The best 6th men (guys who are stars and can create their own) can prolly do that but I dont buy that its typical or extreme for most players. I recall lots of 6MOY winning the award off the strength of their starting statistics. I remember Hollinger poking fun at the fact that voters dont actually look at bench production when choosing these winners.


Of course, Im pretty sure you were the poster who said teammates dont influence other players so I dont expect you to believe me.

lol, please
01-31-2014, 03:08 PM
At this point I wouldn't mind if he was trade bait, he is inconsistent, moreso than Klay, it's not an easy choice when you have to choose between gambling on someone's potential and development, and going with an immediate upgrade for the win-now cause.

mavwar53
01-31-2014, 03:12 PM
The off the bench idea could be a valid point but to me I see he has lost confidence in his shot. Therefore he is driving more but it is so much easier to defend. Until he starts shooting it better guys will play off him daring him to shoot it. And if he drives he will have no advantage.

He started off the year so well which is what is so puzzling.

Goose17
01-31-2014, 05:58 PM
Loved the way he played in the first half last night. I think somebody has been talking to him, guessing it was Coach J.

WITZ
01-31-2014, 06:16 PM
Nice Barnes related article on espn

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/65687/harrison-barnes-new-brand-bust

Chronz
01-31-2014, 06:33 PM
Nice Barnes related article on espn

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/65687/harrison-barnes-new-brand-bust

His touches dwindle alongside starters and he plays more within himself and optimizes his play, so its maybe its not so much coming off the bench, but what it usually implies, less opportunities alongside your best teammates.