PDA

View Full Version : Indiana Pacers....welcome to the Wild Wild West!



soonabooma
01-26-2014, 04:16 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think Indy is a great team, but I don't think they'd wanna play in the western conference, it's a grind every night, and they're finding out how tough it really is.

sixer04fan
01-26-2014, 04:27 AM
You know they just beat the Clippers and the Warriors back to back like 4-5 days ago right?

Of course the Western Conference is tougher, but the Pacers are big boys. They can handle themselves. But you are right, the western conference is definitely a hell of a grind.

P&GRealist
01-26-2014, 04:29 AM
They'll end their road trip with a blowout victory Tuesday night in LA against the Lakers. I'll be a happy camper. :)

PacersForLife
01-26-2014, 04:46 AM
I think it has a lot to do with some guys being worn out combined with the fact that these teams have seemed to shoot lights out. They haven't looked right defensively since the Warriors game. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost against the Lakers.

I would also like to add that we did go out west earlier in the year and went 2-1 in a trip including: LAC, SA, and OKC.

tredigs
01-26-2014, 04:55 AM
OKC/SAS/GSW/HOU/POR are a combined 64-12 against the East. God they suck. The records would be even more hilariously unbalanced if they played each other equally.

kobe4thewinbang
01-26-2014, 05:08 AM
The western conference is tough, yes, but Indiana can hold their own. I think they might be the next team to win two straight.

tredigs
01-26-2014, 05:13 AM
The western conference is tough, yes, but Indiana can hold their own. I think they might be the next team to win two straight.

Wouldn't necessarily disagree with this because they probably have a better chance than any other team to do it, but it's not likely. And if they played in the West, very unlikely.

I've grown pretty ****ing tired of the disparity in the last couple decades. Needs revamping.

sunsfan88
01-26-2014, 05:23 AM
If Indiana was in the West and had to play against WCF teams so much, they wouldn't be top 5 in the West.

PacersForLife
01-26-2014, 05:48 AM
If Indiana was in the West and had to play against WCF teams so much, they wouldn't be top 5 in the West.

I don't buy this. Would you say the same about Miami?

Goose17
01-26-2014, 06:58 AM
Right now Indiana are better than every team in the West aside from San Antonio and maybe Portland.

bholly
01-26-2014, 10:09 AM
Of course they wouldn't want to play in the tougher conference, but worth noting that they're 12-4 against the West - the best winning percentage in the entire league.

ManRam
01-26-2014, 12:54 PM
Well, yeah...of course their record would be worse if they were in the West. And of course they'd rather be in the East. That plays true for every EC team this year...because the gap is huge.

But, as said, they are 12-4 against WC teams. And there's no reason to question their greatness though. This thread is probably seeking to do just that. But, they're a more complete team this year than the last two years, and the last two year they gave the eventual champs a run for their money. I think they're more proven than any team out west aside from OKC and SAS. They aren't magically worse because of the conference they play in. Their record might be slightly inflated, but they are who they are, and that's a team that has shown it can go toe-to-toe with the league's best team consistently.

They might be a 3-4 seed in the West right now, but they aren't obviously or significantly worse than any of those 3-4 teams either. In a 7 game series, they can beat any team.

Matter.
01-26-2014, 12:57 PM
Its a Long road trip ... The Pacers need some resting they've been playing a lot in the past week or so

MrfadeawayJB
01-26-2014, 01:07 PM
sure their record would be slightly worse without all the cupcake east teams on the schedule, but they are still easily a top 5 team in the league

mdm692
01-26-2014, 01:41 PM
If Indiana was in the West and had to play against WCF teams so much, they wouldn't be top 5 in the West.

:confused:. They're 12-4 which is small sample but that's still .75 winning percentage if I'm not mistaken.

lionel
01-26-2014, 02:07 PM
im still upset my Kings lost to them! we had it!!! lol

Romo2Bryant
01-26-2014, 02:09 PM
Its a Long road trip ... The Pacers need some resting they've been playing a lot in the past week or so

Name of girl please? Can't tell if that's Danielle.

EDIT: nvm, it's her.

tredigs
01-26-2014, 02:17 PM
Of course they wouldn't want to play in the tougher conference, but worth noting that they're 12-4 against the West - the best winning percentage in the entire league.

Sure, but they go in there having played an easier for the majority of the year. They don't have the grind that all Western teams have, and that is very important in the tougher games they do play. And it's still worse than their East record.

But I'm not taking away from Indy at all, I've stated plenty of times I think they're probably the best team in the NBA. It's that the schedule throughout the season and conference they're in helps them big time in relation to the conference that has an 11 seed with a +4.5 point differential.

tredigs
01-26-2014, 02:25 PM
What would the expected chances of the team to reach their conference finals be if they played in the East or West? 95% to 55% respectively?

3RDASYSTEM
01-26-2014, 02:30 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think Indy is a great team, but I don't think they'd wanna play in the western conference, it's a grind every night, and they're finding out how tough it really is.

How did they do on west coast trip? it's a lot of other things included that you don't understand if you haven't hung out with a actual nba player

west coast has a lot of parties non stop and players are human so extra partying and late nights equal tired legs, the west is top heavy for most part but HORNETS play just as hard as any team in basketball, win or lose and they reside out east

this may just be a rough patch in a season where I don't even think they have double digit losses, plus good portion of their wins come from grinding it out every night but I understand being a great team they coast on nights often being up by large margin

nba players party hard, they have cake and the ice cream etc.

BoSox47
01-26-2014, 02:47 PM
If Indiana was in the West and had to play against WCF teams so much, they wouldn't be top 5 in the West.

any given order Spurs, OKC, Pacers. Even tho miamis record isnt up to part with those i feel they are still number 4

bootsy
01-26-2014, 03:22 PM
If Indiana was in the West and had to play against WCF teams so much, they wouldn't be top 5 in the West.

This is complete ********. The Pacers are playing these games ON THE ROAD every other day and in some cases back to back nights. The late starts and flying contributes to some of the lackluster play as they aren't used to playing in these time zones. It makes a huge difference. If the Pacers were a west coast team they wouldn't have to worry about this most of the time. Just stop with the stupidity.

CarltonXanBanks
01-26-2014, 03:24 PM
the eastern conference is better defensively than the western conference. their games are more of a "grind"

Goose17
01-26-2014, 03:28 PM
the eastern conference is better defensively than the western conference.

LOL. No it isn't.

Indy, Chi and Miami are great defensive teams. Toronto and Charlotte have played overachieved defensively this season.

FlashBolt
01-26-2014, 03:43 PM
Lol. West is tougher but did someone honestly say they wouldn't even be a top 5?

tredigs
01-26-2014, 03:46 PM
This is complete ********. The Pacers are playing these games ON THE ROAD every other day and in some cases back to back nights. The late starts and flying contributes to some of the lackluster play as they aren't used to playing in these time zones. It makes a huge difference. If the Pacers were a west coast team they wouldn't have to worry about this most of the time. Just stop with the stupidity.
What?? How is this any different from all teams whose home and away games vary?

Verbal Christ
01-26-2014, 04:16 PM
defense translates regardless of conference. Play stellar D in this league and you will win more often than not.

CarltonXanBanks
01-26-2014, 05:57 PM
LOL. No it isn't.

Indy, Chi and Miami are great defensive teams. Toronto and Charlotte have played overachieved defensively this season.

LOL. um yes it http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/avgPointsAgainst/order/false

SPURSFAN1
01-26-2014, 06:03 PM
It also helps that a lot of east teams can't shoot for chit anyways.

IndyRealist
01-26-2014, 06:04 PM
Lord PSD overreacts. 2nd night of a back to back after an overtime game with traveling in between, when the previous game went until 1am Eastern. And in Denver a mile up.

There are no back to backs in the playoffs. There are no 10pm starts for Eastern Conference teams. And there are rest days to acclimate to altitude. Let's not make the Denver game more than it is, a scheduled loss.

John Walls Era
01-26-2014, 06:11 PM
LOL. No it isn't.

Indy, Chi and Miami are great defensive teams. Toronto and Charlotte have played overachieved defensively this season.

43 games is an ok sample size.

John Walls Era
01-26-2014, 06:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zXKtfKnfT8

Are the Pacers ready for this?

John Walls Era
01-26-2014, 06:15 PM
Name of girl please? Can't tell if that's Danielle.

EDIT: nvm, it's her.

Its her and shes an escort...

tredigs
01-26-2014, 06:15 PM
LOL. um yes it http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/sort/avgPointsAgainst/order/false

Points against?? Let's look at a better ESPN stat for team defense, yours isn't even pace adjusted: http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false

3 of the top 5 and 5 of the top 10 defensive squads are from the West. Looking at the bottom 20-30, 5 are from the East. Seems about equal.

Now, OFFENSIVE efficiency? http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/order/true

12 of the top 13 are from the West, with the bottom 7 all being Eastern teams.

bholly
01-26-2014, 06:23 PM
You can't really just compare points against like that, even when taking into account pace - the East teams play almost twice as many games against other East teams who're much worse offensively, and that probably drives their good defensive measures as much as anything.

If you want to compare using data like that, you'd have to compare their performance against similar opponents, and I don't think anybody is going to bother digging up that data.

Red_Pill
01-26-2014, 07:06 PM
Right now Indiana are better than every team in the West aside from San Antonio and maybe Portland.

They are in no way better than OKC...the very same OKC that's beaten up San Antonio and Portland.

sunsfan88
01-26-2014, 09:52 PM
This is complete ********. The Pacers are playing these games ON THE ROAD every other day and in some cases back to back nights. The late starts and flying contributes to some of the lackluster play as they aren't used to playing in these time zones. It makes a huge difference. If the Pacers were a west coast team they wouldn't have to worry about this most of the time. Just stop with the stupidity.
Its not a knock on the Pacers, its just how good the West is. Sorry to offend you though.

sunsfan88
01-26-2014, 09:53 PM
I don't buy this. Would you say the same about Miami?
With how they have played this year? Yea.

PacersForLife
01-26-2014, 10:13 PM
With how they have played this year? Yea.

Fair enough I guess. Do you think the Blazers are better than the Heat and Pacers though?

Pacerlive
01-26-2014, 10:22 PM
its not a knock on the pacers, its just how good the west is. Sorry to offend you though.

It's alright to say the West is good but your opinion is still biased and not based on facts.

If you look at the Efficiency differential against the Western conference top 8 teams you will find the Pacers second at (10) behind OKC at (17). The suns are third at 3.

If your opinion had any merit you would expect the Pacers to fair much worse than this.

If you include all the western conference teams played then you have Indy tied with the Heat for the number one spot for efficiency differential.

bholly
01-26-2014, 10:45 PM
Yeah, saying Indy "wouldn't be top 5 in the West" with any sort of certainty, particularly without anything more to back it up than "the West is tough" or similar is about as useless/dumb as saying they'd be top of the West because they have the best record. It's completely baseless - at best you could think it's a possibility, but thinking it's sure enough to state it as a fact is just asinine.

Ignoring the stupidity of the certainty, and just considering the claim in itself, I think it's extremely unlikely - really hard to see Indy dropping below Houston. The West isn't that much better - Indy have played 27 against the East (22-5) and 16 against the West (12-4). They've been better against the West than anybody, and that's while playing 10 of those 16 on the road. Even if you give them 16 against the East and 27 against the West - ie 11 more West games and 11 less East games - it's hard to see them dropping the 6 extra games they would need to fall behind Houston into #6 or worse. That's just a huge dropoff in their quality that would require much more than "it's the West" to happen.

sunsfan88
01-27-2014, 05:59 AM
Fair enough I guess. Do you think the Blazers are better than the Heat and Pacers though?

No you know what, I misspoke. After giving it some serous consideration, I think OKC, LAC (when healthy) and GSW (when healthy) are the 3 teams that would be better than the Pacers. So I said top 5 earlier, but I'm changing that now to top 3. Pacers wouldn't be a top 3 team if they were in the West.

And Miami is playing like crap this regular season...but come playoff time, I expect them to play like they have the past 3 years. I don't think Indiana will beat them in a series. But I don't have any rational thinking to why I think the Heat won't be stopped, I just won't believe that a team can beat Miami in a 7 game series until its done.

And no I don't think Portland is better than Indiana. I don't even think Portland is better than Phoenix. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and drop at least 1k on the Suns winning if the Suns and Blazers play in the first round of playoffs. With Bledsoe (and rest of the Suns healthy), I am very confident in the Suns chances of beating the Blazers.

Sorry to get off topic a bit lol.

sunsfan88
01-27-2014, 06:05 AM
It's alright to say the West is good but your opinion is still biased and not based on facts.

If you look at the Efficiency differential against the Western conference top 8 teams you will find the Pacers second at (10) behind OKC at (17). The suns are third at 3.

If your opinion had any merit you would expect the Pacers to fair much worse than this.

If you include all the western conference teams played then you have Indy tied with the Heat for the number one spot for efficiency differential.

I'm curious, what's efficiency differential? I'm not mocking you, I just don't know what it is. Is it a stat about how well you have played vs top teams? So even if its a loss but its a close loss, you get some merit?

And here's one thing you don't understand...how often does Indiana play a WC team. And how often does a WC team play vs a WC team?

That's why OKC playing better vs top 8 WC is more impressive to me than any East team playing them regardless of whether its Indiana, Miami or Philly.

BTW, I retract my statement about Indiana not being a top 5 team. Read post above.

elledaddy
01-27-2014, 07:10 AM
Every year fans of west teams discuss(brag) about how tough the west is or the "grind" it out west but is it really? Its just been really the Spurs and the Lakers winning, that aint a grind. It hasnt been west team after west team winning chips. Over the last 25 years there has been 4 east franchises and 4 west franchises win rings. Seems pretty equal to me when its all said and done.

MTar786
01-27-2014, 08:08 AM
No you know what, I misspoke. After giving it some serous consideration, I think OKC, LAC (when healthy) and GSW (when healthy) are the 3 teams that would be better than the Pacers. So I said top 5 earlier, but I'm changing that now to top 3. Pacers wouldn't be a top 3 team if they were in the West.

And Miami is playing like crap this regular season...but come playoff time, I expect them to play like they have the past 3 years. I don't think Indiana will beat them in a series. But I don't have any rational thinking to why I think the Heat won't be stopped, I just won't believe that a team can beat Miami in a 7 game series until its done.

And no I don't think Portland is better than Indiana. I don't even think Portland is better than Phoenix. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and drop at least 1k on the Suns winning if the Suns and Blazers play in the first round of playoffs. With Bledsoe (and rest of the Suns healthy), I am very confident in the Suns chances of beating the Blazers.

Sorry to get off topic a bit lol.

you know when my lakers were going for our 4th title in a row back in 03 we played bad all season and no one was worried because we knew we could 'flip that switch on' in a way we did towards the end of the season we started playing incredibly well but still resulted in elimination albeit to the team that did win the title anyway.. also a little bit of bad luck costed us that series.
basically what I'm saying is that the champs are only dethroned when they're dethroned.. till then.. a team thats dominated for more than one season in a row.. its hard to not see them win it all again regardless if their season is going great or not.

add: i agree with you that portland may be overachieving right now.. but its hard to see the suns beating them when you have 4 games in portland.. its hard to win there lol. Also, i don't think the suns would be the right team to beat them.

MTar786
01-27-2014, 08:27 AM
i forgot to mention that IMO the west isn't a conference to brag about this year. yeah, we may be deep and every team amy be pretty good to really good. nut not even one i would say is dominant or elite.

bholly
01-27-2014, 09:48 AM
Every year fans of west teams discuss(brag) about how tough the west is or the "grind" it out west but is it really? Its just been really the Spurs and the Lakers winning, that aint a grind. It hasnt been west team after west team winning chips. Over the last 25 years there has been 4 east franchises and 4 west franchises win rings. Seems pretty equal to me when its all said and done.
People other than you are considering much more than just who wins the championship. Everyone agrees they're close at the top, but it's the rest of the conference where they differ. Look at the win percentage of west teams vs east teams, for example. The west has clearly been better overall recently.

Pacerlive
01-27-2014, 09:56 AM
I'm curious, what's efficiency differential? I'm not mocking you, I just don't know what it is. Is it a stat about how well you have played vs top teams? So even if its a loss but its a close loss, you get some merit?

And here's one thing you don't understand...how often does Indiana play a WC team. And how often does a WC team play vs a WC team?

That's why OKC playing better vs top 8 WC is more impressive to me than any East team playing them regardless of whether its Indiana, Miami or Philly.

BTW, I retract my statement about Indiana not being a top 5 team. Read post above.
Why would I think you are mocking me?

It's basically points scored - points allowed normalized to a 100 possessions so you can compare each team.

Indy is average in offensive efficiency but elite in defensive efficeincy which is why people underestimate them. Their defense carries them to more wins which is the opposite to most western conference teams.

bholly
01-27-2014, 10:20 AM
I don't even think Portland is better than Phoenix. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and drop at least 1k on the Suns winning if the Suns and Blazers play in the first round of playoffs. With Bledsoe (and rest of the Suns healthy), I am very confident in the Suns chances of beating the Blazers.

Sorry to get off topic a bit lol.

'Better' means a lot more than just 'who would win in a series', particularly in this context and at this point in the season. If we start taking matchups into consideration like that then we're going to need a new word because 'better' is inherently transitive. Phoenix might match up in a way where they could beat Portland in a series, but Portland have been better overall by a significant margin. If you want anyone to take that sort of claim seriously you're going to have to back it up with a damn good argument (and obviously each team winning their home games in the season series so far isn't enough - we're talking about a pretty massive discrepancy here).

As for who would actually win in a series, I disagree with you there too. I'm pretty sure I take that bet. Let's wait and see how the matchups shake out, and if they end up meeting in the first round we'll talk by PM or whatever about finding an escrow.

PacersForLife
01-27-2014, 02:11 PM
No you know what, I misspoke. After giving it some serous consideration, I think OKC, LAC (when healthy) and GSW (when healthy) are the 3 teams that would be better than the Pacers. So I said top 5 earlier, but I'm changing that now to top 3. Pacers wouldn't be a top 3 team if they were in the West.
Hmm... the only team that you listed that I think could be better than the Pacers is OKC. We beat LAC both times we played them and GS the only time we played them.

SPURSFAN1
01-27-2014, 03:19 PM
Its easier to conserve your energy when you're in the east. You can go all out vs an elite team and slow your pace vs the weak teams. The spurs had the best defense early on in the season, because it was playing a lot of eastern teams.

We should have a poll on which division is the hardest between this 3.

1 Indian, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee 97 wins 25-50 record vs west
2 Miami, Atlanta, Wachington, Charlotte, Orlando 107 wins 30-48 record vs west
3 San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans 128 wins And plays mostly vs the west. 56-21 vs east

sunsfan88
01-27-2014, 05:16 PM
Why would I think you are mocking me?

It's basically points scored - points allowed normalized to a 100 possessions so you can compare each team.

Indy is average in offensive efficiency but elite in defensive efficeincy which is why people underestimate them. Their defense carries them to more wins which is the opposite to most western conference teams.
Hmm I see. Do you have a link to that stat?

Goose17
01-27-2014, 05:29 PM
They are in no way better than OKC...the very same OKC that's beaten up San Antonio and Portland.

Yes they are. And saying Team X beat Team Y means nothing, any team can beat anyone on any given night. Utah defeated OKC by double digits, does that make them better? Hell no.




i forgot to mention that IMO the west isn't a conference to brag about this year. yeah, we may be deep and every team amy be pretty good to really good. nut not even one i would say is dominant or elite.

Are you serious? The reason nobody is dominating is because there is at least five truly ELITE teams, so you can't dominate. I mean five championship caliber teams. Compared to the two in the East. There's then 2 or 3 dark horses, compared to one in the East.

Pacerlive
01-27-2014, 05:34 PM
Hmm I see. Do you have a link to that stat?
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff

Essentially what you are trying to elude to even though you don't know it is the schedule adjusted rating or SAR for short. This is where you take the strength of schedule and efficiency differential to adjust for tougher or weaker competition.

The East is weaker but you don't know by how much compared to the West. This is what that adjust for or atleast makes an attempt to and records it by eff diff.

http://www.nbastuffer.com/team_stats

Pacerlive
01-27-2014, 06:36 PM
Its easier to conserve your energy when you're in the east. You can go all out vs an elite team and slow your pace vs the weak teams. The spurs had the best defense early on in the season, because it was playing a lot of eastern teams.

We should have a poll on which division is the hardest between this 3.

1 Indian, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee 97 wins 25-50 record vs west
2 Miami, Atlanta, Wachington, Charlotte, Orlando 107 wins 30-48 record vs west
3 San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans 128 wins And plays mostly vs the west. 56-21 vs east
IF what you said was true then you would expect the starters to play less minutes in the East when compared to the West. SO of the teams that play more minutes than the average 10 of teams reside in the East vs 5 in the West.

So if the argument is Pace then you are making a big deal over West teams playing at a 94.9 pace vs the East at 93.1. You can do it but I think its a bit far fetch to claim Pace as a big factor in W/L.

SPURSFAN1
01-27-2014, 06:47 PM
IF what you said was true then you would expect the starters to play less minutes in the East when compared to the West. SO of the teams that play more minutes than the average 10 of teams reside in the East vs 5 in the West.

So if the argument is Pace then you are making a big deal over West teams playing at a 94.9 pace vs the East at 93.1. You can do it but I think its a bit far fetch to claim Pace as a big factor in W/L.

First of all, the espn link doesn't taker into account the strength of schedule. You can also play more minutes while playing weaker competition. You don't have to try as hard.

Let me use your data.

http://www.nbastuffer.com/


The best teams are
okc, san, lac, mia, min, hou, pho, tor, atl, and ind solely as def and por solely as off

7 of the top 9 teams are from the west. This is so easy.

Pacerlive
01-27-2014, 07:28 PM
First of all, the espn link doesn't taker into account the strength of schedule. You can also play more minutes while playing weaker competition. You don't have to try as hard.

Let me use your data.

http://www.nbastuffer.com/


The best teams are
okc, san, lac, mia, min, hou, pho, tor, atl, and ind solely as def and por solely as off

7 of the top 9 teams are from the west. This is so easy.

THe question isn't whether the West is better than the East but rather where would the Pacers rank in the West.

Saying that the Pacers are resting their starters or taking plays off is kind of silly especially when you look at there best player in Paul George compared to the West best player in KD.

Synergy has Paul George guarding 583 plays as the intial defender. Kevin Durant is at 472 plays as the intial defender. That isn't pace adjusted btw and we all know who runs a faster pace.

Nicolas Batum is at 414. Lance Stephenson is at 419.

George Hill is at 463 and Stephen Curry is at 463,,, go figure.

So where is the merit to your claim?

Do you want to try to quantify "trying hard" while playing roughly the same amount of minutes while defending the same amount of plays? Good luck with that. :D

And again this goes back to where you would rank the Pacers in the West. The NBAstatstuffer adjust SOS based on efficiency differential of the opponent. Seems fair no? So the Pacers playing a weak east gets them less credit than playing in the West.

SPURSFAN1
01-27-2014, 07:35 PM
THe question isn't whether the West is better than the East but rather where would the Pacers rank in the West.

Saying that the Pacers are resting their starters or taking plays off is kind of silly especially when you look at there best player in Paul George compared to the West best player in KD.

Synergy has Paul George guarding 583 plays as the intial defender. Kevin Durant is at 472 plays as the intial defender. That isn't pace adjusted btw and we all know who runs a faster pace.

Nicolas Batum is at 414. Lance Stephenson is at 419.

George Hill is at 463 and Stephen Curry is at 463,,, go figure.

So where is the merit to your claim?

Do you want to try to quantify "trying hard" while playing roughly the same amount of minutes while defending the same amount of plays? Good luck with that. :D

And again this goes back to where you would rank the Pacers in the West. The NBAstatstuffer adjust SOS based on efficiency differential of the opponent. Seems fair no? So the Pacers playing a weak east gets them less credit than playing in the West.

It doesn't matter much when PG is guarding the inferior player most of the time compared to durant.

Pacerlive
01-27-2014, 07:48 PM
It doesn't matter much when PG is guarding the inferior player most of the time compared to durant.

This would only influence Paul Georges PPP defensive numbers not plays defending. IF you are going to claim that his ppp numbers are inflated then alright.

Now if you are going to say that he is taking plays off well then I think you should put up or shut up. The fact is you are cornered and you are acting silly since you have nothing to back your claim.

Now where do the Pacers rank against the West top 8 in eff diff?


http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/14/1/diffeff/12-1

Yep pretty freakin high :clap:

SPURSFAN1
01-27-2014, 07:59 PM
What about vs the top 8 eastern teams.
okc deff: 24.7
port 22.2
den 20.3
san 19.0
ind 16.3
hou 13.6
lac 12.5
gsw 7.7
dal 6.7

8 of the top 9 best teams vs the top 8 east teams are from the west. Eastern conference is a joke.

SPURSFAN1
01-27-2014, 08:04 PM
Only 2 out of the top 14 teams vs the top 8 west teams are from the east, and that's while playing half or less than half of the western teams.

NBA_Starter
01-27-2014, 08:36 PM
It is a rough trip for sure, they should have lost three in a row but Paul George bailed them out vs the Kings.

Pacerlive
01-27-2014, 10:00 PM
Only 2 out of the top 14 teams vs the top 8 west teams are from the east, and that's while playing half or less than half of the western teams.
So you are going sit there and make a big deal over a 7 game difference while the Pacers played 6 of the 8 games on the road against the western playoff teams.

Normally efficiency differential improve with home games and your implying the opposite so again your argument is poorly contrived.

See how easy this is, Smh. And for the record I wouldn't be bulldozing your arguments down if you had some good points to make a stance with but you have nothing but "they play in the East".

Fact is they don't take it easy like you said and they don't have a bad record against the West so what's your point? The West is deeper? Yep, and what else? Bad record against the west? Nope.

You want to use last year to make your point when the Pacers had the second worst bench in the league? The Pacers starters were the top team in eff diff against the Western playoff teams. The bench drag them down to seventh overall.

Again bring something substantial to the table and I am all ears.

SPURSFAN1
01-27-2014, 10:07 PM
So you are going sit there and make a big deal over a 7 game difference while the Pacers played 6 of the 8 games on the road against the western playoff teams.

Normally efficiency differential improve with home games and your implying the opposite so again your argument is poorly contrived.

See how easy this is, Smh. And for the record I wouldn't be bulldozing your arguments down if you had some good points to make a stance with but you have nothing but "they play in the East".

Fact is they don't take it easy like you said and they don't have a bad record against the West so what's your point? The West is deeper? Yep, and what else? Bad record against the west? Nope.

You want to use last year to make your point when the Pacers had the second worst bench in the league? The Pacers starters were the top team in eff diff against the Western playoff teams. The bench drag them down to seventh overall.

Again bring something substantial to the table and I am all ears.

So you said nothing about the west dominating the top 8 eastern teams? hahahahahaha
And why do you keep separating the starters from the bench? It's a team game. The east is a cakewalk, and the west is a grueling 82 game season. It's easier to have fresh legs in the east.

Pacerlive
01-27-2014, 10:10 PM
So you said nothing about the west dominating the top 8 eastern teams? hahahahahaha
And why do you keep separating the starters from the bench? It's a team game. The east is a cakewalk, and the west is a grueling 82 game season. It's easier to have fresh legs in the east.

Do you need to read the thread title again. If the claim is that the Pacers would fair poorly against the west then where are your facts.

SPURSFAN1
01-27-2014, 10:17 PM
Do you need to read the thread title again. If the claim is that the Pacers would fair poorly against the west then where are your facts.

You want proof. The pacers get a run at westcoast cats these past few game and then they seem average. Imagine if they played in the west, they would look worse from playing better teams on a consistent basis. The hardest east schedule is the easiest west schedule. FACT.

bholly
01-27-2014, 11:36 PM
We should have a poll on which division is the hardest between this 3.

1 Indian, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee 97 wins 25-50 record vs west
2 Miami, Atlanta, Wachington, Charlotte, Orlando 107 wins 30-48 record vs west
3 San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Memphis, New Orleans 128 wins And plays mostly vs the west. 56-21 vs east

Within each conference, the difference in difficulty between the divisions is negligible. You could argue one division is the best, but it doesn't make being in that division harder in any significant way (except for the very rare occasions where the division winner gets a meaningful benefit). The difference in opponents between, say, a team in the Southeast and a team in the Central is practically nothing - certainly much less than the differences caused by things like the number of back to backs and the travel schedule and far dwarfed by the inherent variance of an NBA season - things that get pretty much ignored in these conversations. Divisions are effectively meaningless in this sort of argument. Conferences are huge, but divisions are nothing.

SPURSFAN1
01-28-2014, 12:08 AM
Within each conference, the difference in difficulty between the divisions is negligible. You could argue one division is the best, but it doesn't make being in that division harder in any significant way (except for the very rare occasions where the division winner gets a meaningful benefit). The difference in opponents between, say, a team in the Southeast and a team in the Central is practically nothing - certainly much less than the differences caused by things like the number of back to backs and the travel schedule and far dwarfed by the inherent variance of an NBA season - things that get pretty much ignored in these conversations. Divisions are effectively meaningless in this sort of argument. Conferences are huge, but divisions are nothing.

Divisons are nothing? Tell that to the Pelicans who have to play the spurs rockets mavericks grizzlies four times each. That makes their playoff birth way harder than playing cleveland detroit indiana and chicago. If you ask the Pelicans, they'd chose the central teams 24/7. You need to understand divisions do make a difference.

bholly
01-28-2014, 01:02 AM
I know exactly what difference divisions make, my point was that it's negligible within conferences. Of course the Pelicans would choose the Central - because it would mean playing the West teams significantly less. But the amount of difference it would make if they switched divisions within the West is just about nothing.

This year, for example, the Pelicans skip @OKC, @GSW, vsMINN, vsLAL. You seriously think it'd make that much of a difference if they had, say, Utah's schedule and skipped @SAC, @HOU, vsLAC, vsMEM? Couldn't they prefer their schedule to Portland's, which skips @LAC, @MEM, vsDAL, vsLAL?

The point is that "team x is in a better division" is so far down the list of things we can compare between teams that it's effectively irrelevant. Based on their home/road win percentages, an exactly average team would expect to get 1.76 wins out of the games that NOP skip, 1.78 wins from the games Utah skips, and 1.9 from the games Portland skips.
So we're talking about scheduling differences that, on average, account for less than a fifth of a win. It's nothing (and to the extent it makes a difference, the schedule is actually in NOP's favor vs those teams). You can (and regularly do) get substantially more impact on a team's final win total from a single free throw. It's less important than the fact that Utah have to play two more back-to-backs than New Orleans. It's miiiiles less important than the impact of injuries or chemistry development or variation across a season or just plain old luck.
And most importantly, it's often less than the scheduling differences within divisions - an average team would expect 1.93 wins from the games Houston misses, meaning the difference between NOP's strength of schedule and HOU's is greater than the difference between NOP and Utah or NOP and Portland. The division makes a minuscule difference compared to a host of other things that are ignored.

Of course it makes a huge difference if you play in the Southwest or the Central - that's the difference between 52 games vs the West and 30 games vs the West. It's massive. But the difference between the Southwest and Northwest, or between the Central and Southeast, is completely negligible.

The only way divisions make a meaningful difference to your outlook is if there's a really ****** division where the division winner gets a top 4 seed despite not having a top 4 record, and thus the division thing helps a team in that division and hurts someone else. Beyond that, it's pretty much nothing - and it's certainly not the kind of thing where you can just say "the southwest have more wins than the pacific and therefore the Clippers have it easier than the Rockets" or whatever. East vs West, sure. Division vs division, no.

Bostonjorge
01-28-2014, 01:57 AM
This pacers team is playing the best team basketball then any other team this year. I believe they can hang in the west even be the top team.

I also do believe the reason they are playing at such a high level is because they lost to Miami 3 years in a row in playoffs and that's what's pushing them to take the heat down. Maybe that's why they got to this point where there are now but this team this year can play anywhere.

Pacerlive
01-28-2014, 12:58 PM
You want proof. The pacers get a run at westcoast cats these past few game and then they seem average. Imagine if they played in the west, they would look worse from playing better teams on a consistent basis. The hardest east schedule is the easiest west schedule. FACT.
So you are using a 4 game sample size to prove your point while ignoring the previous road trip of 4 games. Nice..

I have no doubt the Pacers would probably have a few more losses if they played in the West but they would still be a top 5 team. I think anyone claiming they would be mediocre needs to provide more insight than the west is the tougher conference. If the Pacers were mediocre in the West then they would have lost to the Spurs and Clippers who would be far superior to any East team not named Miami. Fact is you have weak arguments and are still probably bothered by that beat down of Miami.

OldStyleCubbies
01-28-2014, 04:28 PM
The Pacers are the best team in the NBA.

SPURSFAN1
01-28-2014, 06:52 PM
So you are using a 4 game sample size to prove your point while ignoring the previous road trip of 4 games. Nice..

I have no doubt the Pacers would probably have a few more losses if they played in the West but they would still be a top 5 team. I think anyone claiming they would be mediocre needs to provide more insight than the west is the tougher conference. If the Pacers were mediocre in the West then they would have lost to the Spurs and Clippers who would be far superior to any East team not named Miami. Fact is you have weak arguments and are still probably bothered by that beat down of Miami.

How was PG in game 7? Some guys just collapse from too much pressure. I hope he plays better this year.

Im_in_Mia_bish
02-03-2014, 05:38 PM
:) lets go heat.

ramsizzle
02-03-2014, 05:55 PM
How was PG in game 7? Some guys just collapse from too much pressure. I hope he plays better this year.

This is HILARIOUS from a spurs fan...

NBA_Starter
02-03-2014, 10:49 PM
Where is the thread welcoming Portland to the East?

SPURSFAN1
02-03-2014, 10:53 PM
Where is the thread welcoming Portland to the East?

16/19 .842 vs east. ARE you serious? Go back to hiding. EAST IS A JOKE besides 3 teams. Blazers would have the best record if they were in the east.

benzni
02-04-2014, 02:17 AM
this is thread of the year worthy

NBA_Starter
02-04-2014, 11:11 PM
16/19 .842 vs east. ARE you serious? Go back to hiding. EAST IS A JOKE besides 3 teams. Blazers would have the best record if they were in the east.

It was said Tongue-in-cheek.