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View Full Version : Barnes starting over Klay



TheGoldenGuy30
01-23-2014, 04:27 AM
It has been far too long in the season where I feel we have not removed ourselves from the discussion of having the worst bench in the league. It bothers me Speights feels like almost every shot in close needs to be a fadeaway. It bothers me how much it has seemed Barnes has tried to take charge of the second unit by just using slow-paced post-ups he eventually gets trapped in and either forces the shot or has to pass out. Finally, it bothers me how Jackson has not addressed this issue in any way instead of by playing our starters longer. I created this forum to ask, do you guys believe it is time for Barnes to start over Klay? Klay would undoubtedly would be able to handle the role of the scorer in the second unit. Hell! He almost seems perfectly created to have that role off the bench, where as Barnes does not. No matter how less productive Barnes has been this year than some of us anticipated, I cannot look at that man on tv without thinking that he should be in our starting lineup. His potential, ceiling, and demeanor is not one to make me believe he belongs on the bench. I believe the true Harrison Barnes can start to show once he fits into that starting lineup. Last year, many of us believed in him as the future of the Golden State Warriors and that belief has not left, at least for me. We need to start the man we have so many high hopes for and let Klay command the bench.

COOLbeans
01-23-2014, 04:46 AM
I've seen people say Klay's psyches too fragile for him to have started for his entire career and then be benched mid season. Hell some people said hed regress in the beginning of the season if he were the 6th man. But I disagree. I've said, Barnes should be given a fair chance to start with Iguadala in the lineup, but I don't think that was ever Mark Jackson's intention. Since when is Klay Thompsons development more important than Barnes?

Warriors4lyfe12
01-23-2014, 01:18 PM
Klay starting is good on many fronts... 1. It makes defenders be honest in their D... they can't really leave Klay or curry alone. 2. Even when barnes started, his numbers weren't impressive... He had a couple great games against the spurs because he was playing the 4 in spot of david lee. 3. He doesn't demand the ball enough when on the floor, he is content with just floating to the corners and just standing there. If he wants to start he needs to play off the bench as if he is a starter. If he can come in, play like Manu, or JR. Smith, then he will get the credibility he deserves. And moving Klay to the bench doesn't really make our bench "stronger" because it just weakens our starters. What we SHOULD do is trade barnes now... It is time. We can get a decent package for him, and that will bolster our bench.

Leandres_sf
01-23-2014, 01:57 PM
So...you're suggesting to start Barnes to make the bench better. Seems like backwards logic to me.

If the bench is flawed (which it clearly is) its a problem for Myers to fix, not Jackson.

Chromehounds
01-23-2014, 06:04 PM
So...you're suggesting to start Barnes to make the bench better. Seems like backwards logic to me.

If the bench is flawed (which it clearly is) its a problem for Myers to fix, not Jackson.

I wouldn't call tinkering with the starting line is backward logic, think of it more like an in-game adjustment. Now blaming an under-performed bench on the GM... that might be a bit overboard.

Leandres_sf
01-23-2014, 07:32 PM
I wouldn't call tinkering with the starting line is backward logic, think of it more like an in-game adjustment. Now blaming an under-performed bench on the GM... that might be a bit overboard.

Making the starting lineup worse to make the bench better is backward logic.

And please tell me where I placed any "blame" on Myers. I simply said the lack of bench performance is his problem to fix, he's the GM. To use your own words, think of it as an in-season adjustment.

SugeKnight
01-24-2014, 12:08 AM
Making the starting lineup worse to make the bench better is backward logic.

And please tell me where I placed any "blame" on Myers. I simply said the lack of bench performance is his problem to fix, he's the GM. To use your own words, think of it as an in-season adjustment.

Not saying I agree, but the Spurs bring Manu off the bench...

Leandres_sf
01-24-2014, 12:25 AM
Manu also only plays 24 min/game. I think the Warriors need Klay on the floor a lot more than that, especially for his defense.

lol, please
01-24-2014, 01:52 AM
I agree that Barnes should be traded if he doesn't step it up and keep it up over the next week or so. Klay off the bench though? I don't know about that, he has been efficient but unspectacular, so I don't know what to make of him. My instinct says trade Klay and invest in Barnes to blossom, but by mind tells me to trade Barnes and hope Klay pans out.

The bottom line is we do need to address the bench though, Speights is good in spurts but not enough. If Oneal and Ezeli could stay healthy all we are two bench impact players away from being a complete team. I think Crawford will only get better as he learns the Dubs system.

Chromehounds
01-24-2014, 02:35 PM
Making the starting lineup worse to make the bench better is backward logic.

And please tell me where I placed any "blame" on Myers. I simply said the lack of bench performance is his problem to fix, he's the GM. To use your own words, think of it as an in-season adjustment.

Well actually your absolute logic doesn't make sense, at least to me. Tinkering to me means an attempt/or attempts in shuffling the line to have a more balanced team. If playing a starter fewer minutes to better assist the bench is backward logic to you then I have no other comments. But I wouldn't mind seeing Barnes starts a couple of games to see how things go.
Regarding Meyers’ job to make the bench better, again not clear what you’re trying to say here. Minus the injuries what is wrong with the bench that you are not blaming the GM but it’s the GM responsibility to fix?

TrueFan420
01-24-2014, 03:46 PM
I agree that Barnes should be traded if he doesn't step it up and keep it up over the next week or so. Klay off the bench though? I don't know about that, he has been efficient but unspectacular, so I don't know what to make of him. My instinct says trade Klay and invest in Barnes to blossom, but by mind tells me to trade Barnes and hope Klay pans out.

The bottom line is we do need to address the bench though, Speights is good in spurts but not enough. If Oneal and Ezeli could stay healthy all we are two bench impact players away from being a complete team. I think Crawford will only get better as he learns the Dubs system.

Klay has improved every year in the league. Barnes has not. Klay is the keeper. West wanted Klay not Barnes. I'll take wests thoughts on the matter.

Goose17
01-24-2014, 03:56 PM
Klay has improved every year in the league. Barnes has not. Klay is the keeper. West wanted Klay not Barnes. I'll take wests thoughts on the matter.

Klay has an extra year behind him but he's clearly the better player right now. He doesn't get enough credit for his defense, he's a very good two way player, and maybe I'm biased but with the 2-guard spot in the state that it is, I think Klay is comfortably top five in his position, there's a big gap between those top two-three and then four and five though.


Anyway, I'm not against tinkering with the line up, bench Klay for the next two games, Minny and Portland. See how Barnes does and see how Klay and Crawford do with the bench. That wouldn't bother me, if it doesn't work out you simply go back to where you were.

Personally I don't think Barnes has done anything to earn the minutes he's getting never mind getting more plus a starting spot, but it's less to do with him earning it and more to do with improving the bench.


I really like Barnes, I'm hesitant to give up on him yet, his season averages aren't much different from last year, his shooting from deep has improved and he's averaging slightly more points, that's it. I think people are forgetting how lackluster his game was during the regular season last year, he had flashes of brilliance but nothing consistent. It was during the playoffs he really turned it up.

Ideally, I would want to hold onto him to see how he does in the playoffs again. But if the front office want to improve the bench immediately, I don't see anyone else on our roster outside of the starting five that would carry any real value.

I get too emotionally attached to our player, I would make for a terrible GM.

TrueFan420
01-24-2014, 04:03 PM
Klay has an extra year behind him but he's clearly the better player right now. He doesn't get enough credit for his defense, he's a very good two way player, and maybe I'm biased but with the 2-guard spot in the state that it is, I think Klay is comfortably top five in his position, there's a big gap between those top two-three and then four and five though.


Anyway, I'm not against tinkering with the line up, bench Klay for the next two games, Minny and Portland. See how Barnes does and see how Klay and Crawford do with the bench. That wouldn't bother me, if it doesn't work out you simply go back to where you were.

Personally I don't think Barnes has done anything to earn the minutes he's getting never mind getting more plus a starting spot, but it's less to do with him earning it and more to do with improving the bench.


I really like Barnes, I'm hesitant to give up on him yet, his season averages aren't much different from last year, his shooting from deep has improved and he's averaging slightly more points, that's it. I think people are forgetting how lackluster his game was during the regular season last year, he had flashes of brilliance but nothing consistent. It was during the playoffs he really turned it up.

Ideally, I would want to hold onto him to see how he does in the playoffs again. But if the front office want to improve the bench immediately, I don't see anyone else on our roster outside of the starting five that would carry any real value.

I get too emotionally attached to our player, I would make for a terrible GM.
The extra year means little tho. After his first year he came back and stepped his defense up big time. Then this year he continued to improve his defense as well as become more consistent which is massive. Barnes hasn't really improved anything. Klay is better now and will be in the future. Barnes is mad overrated by you guys and I stand by what I said on draft day that you don't pass on a center with that type of potential for a fit at a position even if that fit has decent potential. Especially when at the time our center was hurt and had been for a while.

Barnes didn't earn the starting spot and with his play I don't want him starting he got a chance while iggy was hurt and he didn't exactly impress. He does have value and idk if I'd deal him. Personally I think adding a pass first pg to the bench would do us wonders.

Goose17
01-24-2014, 04:21 PM
Klay is better now and will be in the future.

I didn't realise you came here from the future?


Barnes is mad overrated by you guys


What he did in the playoffs wasn't a fluke, you don't play like that out of chance. He clearly has talent, even if you can't see it.

TrueFan420
01-24-2014, 04:26 PM
I didn't realise you came here from the future?



What he did in the playoffs wasn't a fluke, you don't play like that out of chance. He clearly has talent, even if you can't see it.

I'll hedge my bets on the player that improves his game every year over the one that doesn't. You say it's just his second year but look what Klay did in his second.

I never said he was useless. He has decent potential. I just see him as deng but flipped, offensively better and defensively worse but still solid. I just wanted Drummond and badly.

Goose17
01-24-2014, 04:50 PM
I'll hedge my bets on the player that improves his game every year over the one that doesn't. You say it's just his second year but look what Klay did in his second.

I never said he was useless. He has decent potential. I just see him as deng but flipped, offensively better and defensively worse but still solid. I just wanted Drummond and badly.

I didn't know anything about Drummond going into the draft tbh.


And I'm not saying Klay won't be better, I actually think he will, but I think both him AND Barnes will be top 5 in their position eventually. Regardless, even if I think he's going to be better I wouldn't state it as a fact like you did.

Kidd improved in his first couple of seasons more than Nash did, but I would never take him over Nash looking back on it now.

COOLbeans
01-24-2014, 04:51 PM
Klay is the better scorer. But he's had farrrrr more chances and far more minutes to develop. You can't ignore that fact.

COOLbeans
01-24-2014, 04:53 PM
I didn't know anything about Drummond going into the draft tbh.


And I'm not saying Klay won't be better, I actually think he will, but I think both him AND Barnes will be top 5 in their position eventually. Regardless, even if I think he's going to be better I wouldn't state it as a fact like you did.

Kidd improved in his first couple of seasons more than Nash did, but I would never take him over Nash looking back on it now.

There were people in this forum including me, that wanted Drummond with the 7th pick but I was elated when Barnes fell to us. For me it was 1A and 1B, Drummond then Barnes. But I didn't think Barnes would would still be there. I also wanted Lillard and was shocked when Portland took him. Not a bad pickup.

TrueFan420
01-24-2014, 05:02 PM
I didn't know anything about Drummond going into the draft tbh.


And I'm not saying Klay won't be better, I actually think he will, but I think both him AND Barnes will be top 5 in their position eventually. Regardless, even if I think he's going to be better I wouldn't state it as a fact like you did.

Kidd improved in his first couple of seasons more than Nash did, but I would never take him over Nash looking back on it now.

Fair enough on not knowing much about him.

I doubt Barnes will be top 5 with some of the small forwards there are out there. And come on this is the internet. And I didn't say 100% fact. I just said he'd be better cause he's improved every year and west wanted him not Barnes (believe he wanted Drummond as well) and that I'd trust west opinion.

Honestly Nash and Kidd are a wash. Two very different types of pg. One great passer and scorer but putrid on defense. The other great passer, defender, and rebounder but very poor offensively.

Goose17
01-24-2014, 05:14 PM
Honestly Nash and Kidd are a wash. Two very different types of pg. One great passer and scorer but putrid on defense. The other great passer, defender, and rebounder but very poor offensively.

I would take Nash over every PG that has ever existed. But I'm 100% biased, he's my favourite player of all time.

Funny thinking about it now, going into draft day with that pick I was hoping to snag one of three guys; Tyler Zeller, Jared Sullinger or Harrison Barnes.

I wanted Lillard but it didn't make sense.

TrueFan420
01-24-2014, 05:25 PM
I would take Nash over every PG that has ever existed. But I'm 100% biased, he's my favourite player of all time.

Funny thinking about it now, going into draft day with that pick I was hoping to snag one of three guys; Tyler Zeller, Jared Sullinger or Harrison Barnes.

I wanted Lillard but it didn't make sense.
I understood the Barnes selection and was cool with it but I wanted Drummond. He was everything we'd have been missing at the center spot and while I liked Bogut his injury history scared me and still does.

Your crazy if you'd take Nash over any pg ever... That's beyond bias. Magic poops on Nash and I'm a fan of Nash. And there are others as well.

Goose17
01-24-2014, 05:37 PM
Your crazy if you'd take Nash over any pg ever... That's beyond bias. Magic poops on Nash and I'm a fan of Nash. And there are others as well.

Then colour me crazy. I love him not just for what he brings in terms of his basketball talent but also his character.

Steve Nash and Tim Duncan, two guys that I would take over EVERY other player that has ever played their respective position. Not just great players but great people and great leaders.

COOLbeans
01-24-2014, 05:44 PM
Fair enough on not knowing much about him.

I doubt Barnes will be top 5 with some of the small forwards there are out there. And come on this is the internet. And I didn't say 100% fact. I just said he'd be better cause he's improved every year and west wanted him not Barnes (believe he wanted Drummond as well) and that I'd trust west opinion.

Honestly Nash and Kidd are a wash. Two very different types of pg. One great passer and scorer but putrid on defense. The other great passer, defender, and rebounder but very poor offensively.


Maybe he wasnt a good scorer but saying a top 5 point guard of all time with unbelievable offensive ability is "very poor offensively' is an injustice. But I think you were referring to Kidds scoring abilities?

I'm taking Jason Kidd over Nash 100 times out of 100 simply based upon his defense, size, elite offensive ability, and the guy hit clutch baskets in the playoffs and in the regular season. Year after yer after year.

COOLbeans
01-24-2014, 05:46 PM
I would take Nash over every PG that has ever existed. But I'm 100% biased, he's my favourite player of all time.

Funny thinking about it now, going into draft day with that pick I was hoping to snag one of three guys; Tyler Zeller, Jared Sullinger or Harrison Barnes.

I wanted Lillard but it didn't make sense.

Goose, what's your all time 5 list? We know Nash is your PG, who are the other guys?

TrueFan420
01-24-2014, 05:55 PM
Maybe he wasnt a good scorer but saying a top 5 point guard of all time with unbelievable offensive ability is "very poor offensively' is an injustice. But I think you were referring to Kidds scoring abilities?

I'm taking Jason Kidd over Nash 100 times out of 100 simply based upon his defense, size, elite offensive ability, and the guy hit clutch baskets in the playoffs and in the regular season. Year after yer after year.

I was referring to Kidd as a poor scorer and Nash as great. Notice the poor scorer went with great defender, passer and rebounder.

COOLbeans
01-24-2014, 06:28 PM
Honestly Nash and Kidd are a wash. Two very different types of pg. One great passer and scorer but putrid on defense. The other great passer, defender, and rebounder but very poor offensively.

They could be judged as a wash, but you did refer to Kidd as poor offensively when you meant scorer.

Kidds rebounding, defense, and floor awareness alone make him a top 50 player. Mix in the average scoring ability, Kidds a top 20 player all time. Nash was also great, can't take anything away from him.

TrueFan420
01-24-2014, 06:47 PM
They could be judged as a wash, but you did refer to Kidd as poor offensively when you meant scorer.

Kidds rebounding, defense, and floor awareness alone make him a top 50 player. Mix in the average scoring ability, Kidds a top 20 player all time. Nash was also great, can't take anything away from him.
Yes I don't get what's confusing

COOLbeans
01-26-2014, 04:11 PM
I would take Nash over every PG that has ever existed. But I'm 100% biased, he's my favourite player of all time.

Funny thinking about it now, going into draft day with that pick I was hoping to snag one of three guys; Tyler Zeller, Jared Sullinger or Harrison Barnes.

I wanted Lillard but it didn't make sense.

Looking at this page, you wouldnt possibly be ignoring my posts? (Sarcasm)

Goose, what's your top 5 ranking all time?

COOLbeans
01-26-2014, 04:19 PM
My 5 all time

Curry, Barnes, Harrison Barnes, HB, Bogut

Leandres_sf
01-26-2014, 05:03 PM
Well rounded list.

james21
01-27-2014, 07:16 AM
Is Barnes a true 2, or 3, if 3, does he have the ball handling skills, shooting ability, athletic enough to, start at the 2?

Goose17
01-27-2014, 03:18 PM
Goose, what's your all time 5 list? We know Nash is your PG, who are the other guys?

In terms of my favourites or the guys I think are the best in their position?

My (favourites) all time 5 list;

PG; Steve Nash
SG; Undecided
SF; Chris Mullin
F; Tim Duncan
C; Shaquille O'Neal


I've never been able to narrow down my favourite SG, Vince Carter? Iverson? Wade? Richmond? Jordan? Allen? I struggle with this one, don't have a clear favourite.

TrueFan420
01-27-2014, 03:32 PM
Is Barnes a true 2, or 3, if 3, does he have the ball handling skills, shooting ability, athletic enough to, start at the 2?

Barnes is a true 3 but can play a little 2 and even 4 for short stretches.

COOLbeans
01-27-2014, 04:07 PM
In terms of my favourites or the guys I think are the best in their position?

My (favourites) all time 5 list;

PG; Steve Nash
SG; Undecided
SF; Chris Mullin
F; Tim Duncan
C; Shaquille O'Neal


I've never been able to narrow down my favourite SG, Vince Carter? Iverson? Wade? Richmond? Jordan? Allen? I struggle with this one, don't have a clear favourite.

Good list. I mean, not necessarily who's the best all time. But what 5 would you take against any other 5?
My unstoppable list

Curry
Jordan
Lebron
Rodman
Olajuwon/Shaq

I'm taking the Dream here because he was an excellent passer and he's the guy Michael took

MackShock
01-27-2014, 09:20 PM
1. John Stockton
2. Jeff Hornacek
3. Adam Keefe
4. Karl Malone
5. Greg Ostertag

6. Howard Eisley
7. Bryon Russell
8. Shandon Anderson
9. Antoine Carr
10. Greg Foster

Scoots
01-29-2014, 07:33 PM
Stockton
Jordan
Mullin
Barkley
Olajuwon

COOLbeans
01-29-2014, 07:47 PM
Stockton
Jordan
Mullin
Barkley
Olajuwon

Lets go further. Take out Jordan and Olajuwon (and the two guys i pick up below) and see what we have.

Curry
Kobe
Lebron
Rodman
Shaq