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Longhornfan1234
01-22-2014, 02:32 PM
KD: 30.9 ppg/ 7.8/ 5.1 apg/ .639 TS%

'Bron: 26.2 ppg/ 6.7 rpg/ 6.5 apg/ .661 TS%


According to Numbers Never Lie... KD is giving up less 3 less points per 100 possessions than 'Bron as a primary defender. KD is also 3rd among all small forwards on defense behind Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.


Will PSD finally crown KD as the best player in the game? Numbers don't lie.

nickdymez
01-22-2014, 02:34 PM
PSD will never do that

ellisgw
01-22-2014, 02:36 PM
KD: 30.9 ppg/ 7.8/ 5.1 apg/ .639 TS%

'Bron: 26.2 ppg/ 6.7 rpg/ 6.5 apg/ .661 TS%


According to Numbers Never Lie... KD is giving up less 3 less points per 100 possessions than 'Bron as a primary defender. KD is also 3rd among all small forwards on defense behind Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.


Will PSD finally crown KD as the best player in the game? Numbers don't lie.

You should watch basketball more because you obviously don't understand it.

Longhornfan1234
01-22-2014, 02:36 PM
PSD will never do that

They will have no choice after they examine the numbers.

Longhornfan1234
01-22-2014, 02:37 PM
You should watch basketball more because you obviously don't understand it.

Teach me. Present some evidence to back up your LeBron > KD stance.

Sactown
01-22-2014, 02:40 PM
Sample size.... Dude.

blahblahyoutoo
01-22-2014, 02:41 PM
no, just stop it.

at season's end, I wouldn't be shocked if KD won MVP, mostly because he's having a terrific season but also because with Lebron winning it again, it would be boring.
KD has (deservedly) become the media darling and the media loves stirring controversy.

Ebbs
01-22-2014, 02:41 PM
No.

When LeBron and the Heat come off auto pilot and Durant continues dominance in the playoffs I'll consider it. Other wise you're being seized by an elite month and ignoring five years of greatness.

ellisgw
01-22-2014, 02:42 PM
KD had 3 months of better stats than lebron and kd now is now better. lol

lebron 4 mvp durant 0

lebron 2 rings durant 0

lebron 2 finals mvp 0

KD now has had 3 months of better stats and now he better. The season is not even over.

Hawkeye15
01-22-2014, 02:43 PM
Durant is having a better couple of months no doubt. Let him sustain it. When you play 3 straight 100+ game seasons, and win 2 chips, while dealing with a back injury, you tend to realize the regular season is a marathon and "coast" when you get to LeBron's tenure. Come playoff time, I would assume we see the same LeBron James as usual. Best player on the planet.

No doubt Durant is having an incredible season, and is probably the front runner for MVP. But every GM in the league would take LeBron over anyone for this year and next.

Chronz
01-22-2014, 02:45 PM
Definitely looks that way but we need to let the post season play out

Hawkeye15
01-22-2014, 02:45 PM
Teach me. Present some evidence to back up your LeBron > KD stance.

sample size dude. You are basing 3 months of peak, injury free Durant to a LeBron who is pacing himself, and was suffering from a back injury earlier in the year. 5 years takes a dump on 2 months. Once the playoffs start, LeBron most likely takes it off auto-pilot and reminds you why he is better.

DreamShaker
01-22-2014, 02:53 PM
Definitely looks that way but we need to let the post season play out

This.

Swashcuff
01-22-2014, 02:54 PM
Stats wise Durant is having the better season thus far no question about that. That's all. Until Durant can show that he can sustain this current level over the entirety of the season (like LeBron has in the past) and the post season then its incorrect to say that he has surpassed him.

ManRam
01-22-2014, 02:56 PM
He's having a better season, for sure. The best player this year. That mean he's a better player? IDK.

I don't think a player who has been easily the best in the league for ~5 seasons gets passed because of one half of one...especially coming off of back to back Finals and regular season MVPs.

JeremiahWing
01-22-2014, 02:58 PM
Durant is having a better couple of months no doubt. Let him sustain it. When you play 3 straight 100+ game seasons, and win 2 chips, while dealing with a back injury, you tend to realize the regular season is a marathon and "coast" when you get to LeBron's tenure. Come playoff time, I would assume we see the same LeBron James as usual. Best player on the planet.

No doubt Durant is having an incredible season, and is probably the front runner for MVP. But every GM in the league would take LeBron over anyone for this year and next.


Agree with most of the post, but not sure you can say this so confidently...

Teeboy1487
01-22-2014, 02:59 PM
Not yet, but Durant will eventually surpass Lebron once Lebron's athleticism starts to drop off. I do think Durant is having a more dominant season than Lebron this season so far. However, Durant has to start winning rings. Lebron has did his part.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-22-2014, 02:59 PM
if he wins a ring then yes

RipCity32
01-22-2014, 03:00 PM
Not yet but I think he will pass him up eventually sooner than I thought.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-22-2014, 03:07 PM
No.

When LeBron and the Heat come off auto pilot and Durant continues dominance in the playoffs I'll consider it. Other wise you're being seized by an elite month and ignoring five years of greatness.

This.

Swashcuff
01-22-2014, 03:08 PM
if he wins a ring then yes

What if he gets takes a dump in the finals and his team wins due to Westbrook and the play of their supporting cast.

This whole if he wins a ring argument really isn't the best.

kobebabe
01-22-2014, 03:12 PM
This month? Yes. Over their careers? NO

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 03:15 PM
His skill set has always been better than Lebron, they're just more on display now because he's forced to be "the man." He's definitely the MVP so far.

That being said I still can't call him the best in the game until he has the jewelry to back it up. Same standard I held Lebron to....

LJEATON26
01-22-2014, 03:16 PM
I think he's already a better player but I'm from oklahoma so I'm a homer in that regard. For him to be considered #1 in everyone's opinion then I think he has to outperform lebron in the finals. Like the old saying goes "if you want to be the bes, you have to beat the best".

ManRam
01-22-2014, 03:20 PM
What if he gets takes a dump in the finals and his team wins due to Westbrook and the play of their supporting cast.

This whole if he wins a ring argument really isn't the best.

Nah. #RINGZ

kobebabe
01-22-2014, 03:20 PM
I also think KD's stats over the last few weeks are padded by the fact that he has to carry the team on his shoulder. The best defense against KD is actually non other than Westbrook! So if his defensive stopper ain't around, then he will score big . IJS but am a big KD fan

b@llhog24
01-22-2014, 03:20 PM
Stats wise Durant is having the better season thus far no question about that. That's all. Until Durant can show that he can sustain this current level over the entirety of the season (like LeBron has in the past) and the post season then its incorrect to say that he has surpassed him.

This.

b@llhog24
01-22-2014, 03:22 PM
PSD will never do that

Lol whatever happened to that "he doesn't have a ring" schtick you guys were swinging around?

Theyhateme459
01-22-2014, 03:25 PM
KD: 30.9 ppg/ 7.8/ 5.1 apg/ .639 TS%

'Bron: 26.2 ppg/ 6.7 rpg/ 6.5 apg/ .661 TS%


According to Numbers Never Lie... KD is giving up less 3 less points per 100 possessions than 'Bron as a primary defender. KD is also 3rd among all small forwards on defense behind Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.


Will PSD finally crown KD as the best player in the game? Numbers don't lie.

Didn't realize offense was the only consideration to the best player in the game and not Defense.

nickdymez
01-22-2014, 03:25 PM
Lol whatever happened to that "he doesn't have a ring" schtick you guys were swinging around?

He has a ring now... Why would we be talking about rings when he has one?

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 03:27 PM
This current kd season is better than anything Lebron has ever produced, but he has to sustain if through the postseason and win a ring before we should claim he's the best. Lebron has the jewelry to back it up.

b@llhog24
01-22-2014, 03:28 PM
Lol whatever happened to that "he doesn't have a ring" schtick you guys were swinging around?

He has a ring now... Why would we be talking about rings when he has one?

Was referring to KD.

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 03:29 PM
Didn't realize offense was the only consideration to the best player in the game and not Defense.

This season kd has been one of the better defenders in the league and is improving his defense every year. It's much better than lebrons this year and comparable to Lebron at the same age.

SteBO
01-22-2014, 03:32 PM
KD is having a phenomenal year and is easily the MVP so far, but you need to relax. Any rational human being with eyes can see LBJ is playing on auto-pilot, all while KD is playing the best ball of his young career (and to think people say he hasn't hit his prime yet). Sorry, but 5 years & counting of sustained greatness is better than a month or two of great play. LeBron is still the best player in the game by a decent margin....

Longhornfan1234
01-22-2014, 03:32 PM
Didn't realize offense was the only consideration to the best player in the game and not Defense.

KD is the better defender. The numbers support it.

JasonJohnHorn
01-22-2014, 03:34 PM
Numbers Do Lie reports that KD's current offensive numbers are AMAZING but aren't necessarily better than LBJ's because LBJ is sharing the ball with Wade, Allen, Bosh and other great shooters, where as KD is required to do more with the only other legit scorer (Westbrook) being injured.

His points per average is misleading when placed alongside LBJ's average.

That said, KD IS AMAZING!!! I would say they are equals right now and that KD is posting better numbers in part because he is required to do more after the trade of Harden, departure of Martin and injury to Westbrook. Which isn't to take away from KD's historic numbers, but merely to suggest that they don't imply that he is finitely better than LeBron.

TylerSL
01-22-2014, 03:34 PM
Durant is definitely having the better season I dont think anyone is disputing that, but Lebron is still the best player in basketball. Lebron and the Heat have been a little complacent this season, which is frustrating at times and right now I would go as far to say that Miami is not the best team in the NBA right now. I have this belief because of how bad the defense has played. Miami is having a non-Heat-like defensive season. To be blunt, recently, our defense has been borderline awful. Lebron has vastly under performed on that side of the ball to this point and Miami has showed less effort than they have proven capable of on the defensive end in the past. That does not mean they wont be the best team in the NBA when it really counts, but as of January 22nd I do not believe they are. Lebron could easily do better than 26/6/7 as he has played much of the season very passive. I think by the end of the year Lebron will prove that.

Durant is having the better season, and if things continue to go this way, should win MVP, but for Durant to surpass Lebron, Lebron would have to decline which he has not.

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 03:45 PM
Durant is definitely having the better season I dont think anyone is disputing that, but Lebron is still the best player in basketball. Lebron and the Heat have been a little complacent this season, which is frustrating at times and right now I would go as far to say that Miami is not the best team in the NBA right now. I have this belief because of how bad the defense has played. Miami is having a non-Heat-like defensive season. To be blunt, recently, our defense has been borderline awful. Lebron has vastly under performed on that side of the ball to this point and Miami has showed less effort than they have proven capable of on the defensive end in the past. That does not mean they wont be the best team in the NBA when it really counts, but as of January 22nd I do not believe they are. Lebron could easily do better than 26/6/7 as he has played much of the season very passive. I think by the end of the year Lebron will prove that.

Durant is having the better season, and if things continue to go this way, should win MVP, but for Durant to surpass Lebron, Lebron would have to decline which he has not.

Or durant will just have to continue his play at a higher level than Lebron. I keep hearing auto pilot this, coasting that etc. But if the heat don't win the championship this season, looks like an uphill battle since Indy should have home court, what will be the next excuse?

TylerSL
01-22-2014, 03:45 PM
This current kd season is better than anything Lebron has ever produced, but he has to sustain if through the postseason and win a ring before we should claim he's the best. Lebron has the jewelry to back it up.

lol really??? Either you just hate Lebron or you have a really short memory...

2012 playoffs Lebron went 30/10/6 on 50% shooting

2012-2013 season where Lebron posted 28/8/7 on 57% shooting 41% from 3

So basically everything Lebron did April 2012-June 2013>Durant's 2013-2014 NBA Season.

That is not to say Durant is not having a better 13-14 season than Lebron, he is (see my post above) but its absurd to claim that what Durant is doing in November/December 2013/January 2014 is greater than anything Lebron has ever done is plain laughable. Durant could continue this amazing play throughout the season and who knows, maybe even win a championship. If he does that your claim may be true, but as of right now its just laughable and either shows you as a Lebron hater, or someone who just has a very short memory....

tredigs
01-22-2014, 03:47 PM
He's better at this current juncture, but that doesn't mean it sustains throughout the post-season.

IF Westbrook comes back healthy and OKC reaches the finals and they win while KD is FMVP (no chance it will happen in the West with the way KD's cast looks unless his Ninja Turtle is 95+%), especially if it's against the Pacers, then he will have a case. But, Lebron would likely rest more in the off-season (possibly join a new contender?), and come back with a newfound sense of urgency and some fresher (non-finals worn) legs. Then we would see who was better than who.

Unless that what-if scenario plays out (or something very close to it), there's no reason to say KD has actually passed Bron - even if I myself have argued that the level he is at is as high of a level as we've ever seen from LBJ in the regular season (and even then, he'd have to sustain it for another half of a season).

In short - not yet.

TylerSL
01-22-2014, 03:49 PM
Or durant will just have to continue his play at a higher level than Lebron. I keep hearing auto pilot this, coasting that etc. But if the heat don't win the championship this season, looks like an uphill battle since Indy should have home court, what will be the next excuse?

because Lebrons 12-13 season was better than Durant's 13-14 and Lebron has not declined since then, rather has played less minutes and shot less than he ever has. His FG% has gone up since last season.

Swashcuff
01-22-2014, 03:50 PM
lol really??? Either you just hate Lebron or you have a really short memory...

2012 playoffs Lebron went 30/10/6 on 50% shooting

2012-2013 season where Lebron posted 28/8/7 on 57% shooting 41% from 3

So basically everything Lebron did April 2012-June 2013>Durant's 2013-2014 NBA Season.

That is not to say Durant is not having a better 13-14 season than Lebron, he is (see my post above) but its absurd to claim that what Durant is doing in November/December 2013/January 2014 is greater than anything Lebron has ever done is plain laughable. Durant could continue this amazing play throughout the season and who knows, maybe even win a championship. If he does that your claim may be true, but as of right now its just laughable and either shows you as a Lebron hater, or someone who just has a very short memory....

From an advanced statistical POV KD this season has been better than LeBron's best in more than a few ways. Its half a season however and KD has been playing the best basketball ever this past month. We gotta wait until season's end before coming to such a conclusion but he does have a point.

I remember at points last season however where LeBron's stats were better than current KD's then they eventually dipped. Expect the same with KD.

Bruno
01-22-2014, 03:52 PM
not yet. that's what the post-season is for. we'll judge them then.

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 03:55 PM
because Lebrons 12-13 season was better than Durant's 13-14 and Lebron has not declined since then, rather has played less minutes and shot less than he ever has. His FG% has gone up since last season.
Yeah generally that correlation stands true, the less you shoot the more your efficiency goes up. But it's not like kd has been playing 40mpg. I think he's within a single min of bron but I'd have to go double check.

tredigs
01-22-2014, 03:59 PM
To put KD's season in perspective though, it would be the highest scoring volume ever reached at his level of efficiency (up to 64% TS at 31 ppg), and on pace for the 2nd highest WS/48 in NBA history to Kareem's epic '72 MVP season (KD's at .329). His assist% is at a career high with his turnover% approaching a career low, and per-synergy he ranks in the top 5 in the NBA overall in both Iso Defense and PnR Defense (~.51 ppp).

He's just become the guy with no holes, and doing it at an insanely high level. It's ON PACE (big difference from finishing off the year) for one of the best single regular seasons we've seen. But normally that takes a slight dip in the 2nd half when we see 1st half runs like this.

And as far as what this thread's OP brought up, not there yet. We made LBJ earn it and he was CONSTANTLY bashed for not winning a ring until it happened (obviously not by all, but by enough), so why the double standard?

shep33
01-22-2014, 04:02 PM
The season is only half-way through. Lets see how they perform in the 2nd half and the playoffs

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-22-2014, 04:02 PM
What if he gets takes a dump in the finals and his team wins due to Westbrook and the play of their supporting cast.

This whole if he wins a ring argument really isn't the best.

if OKC will win a championship, Durant will be an MVP.....no chance if Durant plays like a turd

Slug3
01-22-2014, 04:03 PM
Looking at both there numbers they are pretty even with KD having a slight edge. If the regular season ended now I would think he would get the regular season MVP and would be fine with that choice.

But I like to watch Miami play a lot and watch a lot of the top teams play. When watching KD play you can tell right now he is going out and getting it and trying hard and playing hard. Of you watch Miami and even Lebron play you can see they are literally just going through the motions and then trying to play 5-10 minutes of great basketball a game. I would not be surprised if after the all star break Lebron turns it up and we see something similar to what KD is doing happen to Lebron.

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 04:05 PM
He's better at this current juncture, but that doesn't mean it sustains throughout the post-season.

IF Westbrook comes back healthy and OKC reaches the finals and they win while KD is FMVP (no chance it will happen in the West with the way KD's cast looks unless his Ninja Turtle is 95+%), especially if it's against the Pacers, then he will have a case. But, Lebron would likely rest more in the off-season (possibly join a new contender?), and come back with a newfound sense of urgency and some fresher (non-finals worn) legs. Then we would see who was better than who.

Unless that what-if scenario plays out (or something very close to it), there's no reason to say KD has actually passed Bron - even if I myself have argued that the level he is at is as high of a level as we've ever seen from LBJ in the regular season (and even then, he'd have to sustain it for another half of a season).

In short - not yet.

So your basically ok with giving a Lebron a pass for this whole season and post season, AND even if KD wins it all you still wouldn't call him
the best?

That doesn't seem very objective.

Bruno
01-22-2014, 04:05 PM
because Lebrons 12-13 season was better than Durant's 13-14 and Lebron has not declined since then, rather has played less minutes and shot less than he ever has. His FG% has gone up since last season.
and his defense?

D-Leethal
01-22-2014, 04:07 PM
Those defensive numbers are indeed lying to you.

Who is backing up LeBron on D?

Who is backup up KD on D?

Thought so.

mightybosstone
01-22-2014, 04:07 PM
Durant is playing better than Lebron as of late, but it's way too small a sample size to suggest he's the better overall player. If this continues all regular season long and then Durant outperforms Lebron in the postseason, then we can start having this conversation. But we're barely at the mid-point of the season and the Heat have almost nothing to play for right now.

D-Leethal
01-22-2014, 04:07 PM
Don't confuse LeBron coasting on D during the mid season doldrums with him becoming a crappy defender.

ThuglifeJ
01-22-2014, 04:09 PM
Not yet but he could be. Lebron has a weak mindset and is spoiled with his roster. Wait till he and the teammates get a little older.

Lebrons a lot athleticism, KD is a lot skill. Will last longer.

JordansBulls
01-22-2014, 04:11 PM
His playoffs will determine this overall. He can't lose to inferior competition this year. It's like 1998 that Shaq and Malone may have had better numbers overall than MJ in the season, but once you factor in the playoffs and how both Shaq and Malone went out, MJ was the best in the league still. Or it is like 2001 when it appeared that Duncan was ahead of Shaq once more because of a dominant regular season, but the playoffs showed it was Shaq still the man. Same in 2002.

RCarlson85
01-22-2014, 04:15 PM
I also think KD's stats over the last few weeks are padded by the fact that he has to carry the team on his shoulder. The best defense against KD is actually non other than Westbrook! So if his defensive stopper ain't around, then he will score big . IJS but am a big KD fan

I think this has a lot to do with it. I'm not saying Durant isn't having a great season but it's hard to compare him to Lebron when you look at the situation each is in. Lebron doesn't shoot as much as KD so it's going to be hard for him to average as many points. He just doesn't need to do as much in general because he has Wade (most of the time), Bosh, etc so his stats are misleading. If Lebron was in Durant's position I'm pretty confident that he would have superior stats.

ichitownclowni
01-22-2014, 04:16 PM
Not yet, but Durant will eventually surpass Lebron once Lebron's athleticism starts to drop off. I do think Durant is having a more dominant season than Lebron this season so far. However, Durant has to start winning rings. Lebron has did his part. Lebron was 27 when he won his first ring. Durant just turned 25. He is right on pace to win a chip as well.

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 04:18 PM
To put KD's season in perspective though, it would be the highest scoring volume ever reached at his level of efficiency (up to 64% TS at 31 ppg), and on pace for the 2nd highest WS/48 in NBA history to Kareem's epic '72 MVP season (KD's at .329). His assist% is at a career high with his turnover% approaching a career low, and per-synergy he ranks in the top 5 in the NBA overall in both Iso Defense and PnR Defense (~.51 ppp).

He's just become the guy with no holes, and doing it at an insanely high level. It's ON PACE (big difference from finishing off the year) for one of the best single regular seasons we've seen. But normally that takes a slight dip in the 2nd half when we see 1st half runs like this.

And as far as what this thread's OP brought up, not there yet. We made LBJ earn it and he was CONSTANTLY bashed for not winning a ring until it happened (obviously not by all, but by enough), so why the double standard?

While I agree great player need rings to be considered the top. I think the reason Lebron had such a hard time was because of his "check my stats", self proclaimed "king", not 6,not 7, not 8, etc. whereas kd just goes about doing his thing in mostly humble fashion. A more recent incident was Lebron saying his was jealous while pulling up 2 rather inefficient nights from kd, then saying something about how he himself was 12-18 and he wishes he could put up more shots or sumthing like that, seemed real insecure, kd's response was great "I'm pretty sure Lebron can do whatever he wants". Lbj kinda just needs to keep his mouth shut and let his play do the talking.

tredigs
01-22-2014, 04:21 PM
So your basically ok with giving a Lebron a pass for this whole season and post season, AND even if KD wins it all you still wouldn't call him
the best?

That doesn't seem very objective.

Considering that he is still playing at an insanely high level, yes. I'm not going to ignore the fact that he has played in 3 straight Finals and has b2b Finals MVP's while being forced to shoulder even more of the load this year with Wade sitting out virtually every b2b set this season. There's a 0% chance he does not currently have more tired legs than KD (I disagree with the "coasting" premise, I literally don't think he has the energy right now to play at a higher intensity level and maintain it through the post-season)

So, even with Durant playing at a level that matches anything we've seen from LBJ in the reg season IMO, I want to see what Lebron can come back as if he gets knocked out in the ECF, and I want to see KD carry this through to the finals. If that doesn't happen, you can't say he's "passed" him.

Longhornfan1234
01-22-2014, 04:22 PM
To put KD's season in perspective though, it would be the highest scoring volume ever reached at his level of efficiency (up to 64% TS at 31 ppg), and on pace for the 2nd highest WS/48 in NBA history to Kareem's epic '72 MVP season (KD's at .329). His assist% is at a career high with his turnover% approaching a career low, and per-synergy he ranks in the top 5 in the NBA overall in both Iso Defense and PnR Defense (~.51 ppp).
[B]

].
He's just become the guy with no holes, and doing it at an insanely high level. It's ON PACE (big difference from finishing off the year) for one of the best single regular seasons we've seen. But normally that takes a slight dip in the 2nd half when we see 1st half runs like this.

And as far as what this thread's OP brought up, not there yet. We made LBJ earn it and he was CONSTANTLY bashed for not winning a ring until it happened (obviously not by all, but by enough), so why the double standard?
We're not worthy to know this. KD is the most dominate player since peak Shaq.

ManRam
01-22-2014, 04:24 PM
While I agree great player need rings to be considered the top. I think the reason Lebron had such a hard time was because of his "check my stats", self proclaimed "king", not 6,not 7, not 8, etc. whereas kd just goes about doing his thing in mostly humble fashion. A more recent incident was Lebron saying his was jealous while pulling up 2 rather inefficient nights from kd, then saying something about how he himself was 12-18 and he wishes he could put up more shots or sumthing like that, seemed real insecure, kd's response was great "I'm pretty sure Lebron can do whatever he wants". Lbj kinda just needs to keep his mouth shut and let his play do the talking.

LeBron got it because he was the most highly touted prospect in quite some time. Hell, I hated him when he first entered the league because of the hype (I stopped when I realized how ridiculous the hate was getting). There were a ton of things that happened subsequently that helped people justify their hate, but for the vast majority of his Cleveland career he was a soft-spoken, fun-loving guy who was not at all an egomaniac. Dude never had a polarizing soundbite for years and years and years. He wore that shirt after 6 full seasons in the league. He promised HIS OWN FANS a lot of rings 8 full seasons into his career. Don't act like THOSE were the reasons people hated him early on in his Cleveland days. Especially a Kobe fan...we know why you hated him.

And compared to the recent greats (Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, etc.) those are some pretty damn tame issues. A T-Shirt? Promsing his fans a ton of success? Dressing "not-humbly)? Come on.


KD is more likable than any recent star, for sure.

tredigs
01-22-2014, 04:30 PM
While I agree great player need rings to be considered the top. I think the reason Lebron had such a hard time was because of his "check my stats", self proclaimed "king", not 6,not 7, not 8, etc. whereas kd just goes about doing his thing in mostly humble fashion. A more recent incident was Lebron saying his was jealous while pulling up 2 rather inefficient nights from kd, then saying something about how he himself was 12-18 and he wishes he could put up more shots or sumthing like that, seemed real insecure, kd's response was great "I'm pretty sure Lebron can do whatever he wants". Lbj kinda just needs to keep his mouth shut and let his play do the talking.

Well I agree with all of this, but ultimately we shouldn't let it cloud our judgement and make a double standard for Lebron and KD. Even if KD's currently at this echelon, he needs to earn the title of "best in the NBA" through the finals with the level of play we've seen from Lebron over the past half decade.

Or at the least maintain his higher production through the rest of this season + next season while Lebron fails to make the finals himself both years (assuming the team(s) he's on are healthy and capable).

This thread is tiring.

ManRam
01-22-2014, 04:34 PM
Well I agree with all of this, but ultimately we shouldn't let it cloud our judgement and make a double standard for Lebron and KD. Even if KD's currently at this echelon, he needs to earn the title of "best in the NBA" through the finals with the level of play we've seen from Lebron over the past half decade.

Or at the least maintain his higher production through the rest of this season + next season while Lebron fails to make the finals himself both years (assuming the team(s) he's on are healthy and capable).

This thread is tiring.

That's ultimately the point. None of that junk matters. All that does is what happens on the court. Like LeBron, KD will earn the consensus crown eventually when he earns it...and because he's now playing at a historically amazing level for consecutive years, it might not be long.

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 04:41 PM
LeBron got it because he was the most highly touted prospect in quite some time. Hell, I hated him when he first entered the league because of the hype (I stopped when I realized how ridiculous the hate was getting). There were a ton of things that happened subsequently that helped people justify their hate, but for the vast majority of his Cleveland career he was a soft-spoken, fun-loving guy who was not at all an egomaniac. Dude never had a polarizing soundbite for years and years and years. He wore that shirt after 6 full seasons in the league. He promised HIS OWN FANS a lot of rings 8 full seasons into his career. Don't act like THOSE were the reasons people hated him early on in his Cleveland days. Especially a Kobe fan...we know why you hated him.

And compared to the recent greats (Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, etc.) those are some pretty damn tame issues. A T-Shirt? Promsing his fans a ton of success? Dressing "not-humbly)? Come on.


KD is more likable than any recent star, for sure.

Yea that was part if it as well, but he didn't start getting ring hate/ not best player hate until he was in the league for quite some time. Nobody expects a kid straight out of hs to stack up rings, he had his multiple chances where he defered, choked, turned into a ghost. That was another knock on him. But that's all in the past so who cares, point is Lebron is great, kd is great. But kd needs a ring before he can claim best.

Kaner
01-22-2014, 04:45 PM
LeBron got it because he was the most highly touted prospect in quite some time. Hell, I hated him when he first entered the league because of the hype (I stopped when I realized how ridiculous the hate was getting). There were a ton of things that happened subsequently that helped people justify their hate, but for the vast majority of his Cleveland career he was a soft-spoken, fun-loving guy who was not at all an egomaniac. Dude never had a polarizing soundbite for years and years and years. He wore that shirt after 6 full seasons in the league. He promised HIS OWN FANS a lot of rings 8 full seasons into his career. Don't act like THOSE were the reasons people hated him early on in his Cleveland days. Especially a Kobe fan...we know why you hated him.

And compared to the recent greats (Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, etc.) those are some pretty damn tame issues. A T-Shirt? Promsing his fans a ton of success? Dressing "not-humbly)? Come on.


KD is more likable than any recent star, for sure.

Lebron was hated around the league when he was in Cleveland? that's news to me, I remember him getting applause and adoration at almost every arena that wasn't contending for a championship.

As to the topic I think it's impossible to say if Durant's surpassed lebron until after the playoffs and we see just how much (if at all) Lebron and the Heat have been coasting.

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 04:48 PM
Considering that he is still playing at an insanely high level, yes. I'm not going to ignore the fact that he has played in 3 straight Finals and has b2b Finals MVP's while being forced to shoulder even more of the load this year with Wade sitting out virtually every b2b set this season. There's a 0% chance he does not currently have more tired legs than KD (I disagree with the "coasting" premise, I literally don't think he has the energy right now to play at a higher intensity level and maintain it through the post-season)

So, even with Durant playing at a level that matches anything we've seen from LBJ in the reg season IMO, I want to see what Lebron can come back as if he gets knocked out in the ECF, and I want to see KD carry this through to the finals. If that doesn't happen, you can't say he's "passed" him.

I understand the premise of what you're saying but I can't give him that pass. He's not the first great player to have multiple finals runs and we never gave them the tired legs excuse. That's how we seperate the all time greats from everybody else.

Lets be honest they can sit D Wade the rest of season and still get a free ticket to the ECF as horrible as the east is. If they lose this year I think it's just because Indy is a better team.

But if KD keeps it up all the way to a ring I see no reason not to say he's the best. It's like Magic and Bird man, whoever wins gets the props. No excuses.

Swashcuff
01-22-2014, 04:49 PM
Lebron was hated around the league when he was in Cleveland? that's news to me, I remember him getting applause and adoration at almost every arena that wasn't contending for a championship.

As to the topic I think it's impossible to say if Durant's surpassed lebron until after the playoffs and we see just how much (if at all) Lebron and the Heat have been coasting.

News to you? You weren't around here or online at that time weren't you?

LeBron has been hated from the day he stepped foot in the league. People hated him for his dancing, show boating and the fact that ESPN and other media houses were in love with him.

colinskik
01-22-2014, 04:55 PM
People aren't interpreting the question correctly. Saying that KD has surpassed Bron doesn't have anything to do with past performances. It's simply, is KD at a higher level at this point and going forward.

I think the question all comes back to the fact that Bron plays on the best team in the NBA in terms of personnel. He's not forced to do as much, can rely on his teammates, and is able to pad his stats across the line. We've seen him carry a team when he was in CLE but could he still do that? Probably, but unfortunately for all the NBA fans with exception of those in MIA, we'll probably never see it again.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-22-2014, 04:59 PM
Definitely looks that way but we need to let the post season play out

I agree with this mostly. But what if LeBron has slightly better numbers than Durant but he plays two teams under 500 in the first and second round while the Thunder play two 50 win teams. I think there should be a stat or a ranking that takes into consideration the opposition you play.

Kaner
01-22-2014, 05:01 PM
News to you? You weren't around here or online at that time weren't you?

LeBron has been hated from the day he stepped foot in the league. People hated him for his dancing, show boating and the fact that ESPN and other media houses were in love with him.

I had another account on this website in like 2008 I made like the day after the bulls got the #1 draft pick but I couldn't remember the password or email so I made a new one. At the time I remember everyone but Lakers fans liking him. In fact that's what I thought your signature was alluding too? Obviously the decision happened then the media and everything else had a lot of people change their minds about him.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-22-2014, 05:03 PM
I had another account on this website in like 2008 I made like the day after the bulls got the #1 draft pick but I couldn't remember the password or email so I made a new one. At the time I remember everyone but Lakers fans liking him. In fact that's what I thought your signature was alluding too? Obviously the decision happened then the media and everything else had a lot of people change their minds about him.

Ooooooooooh, I'm telling......

tredigs
01-22-2014, 05:06 PM
I understand the premise of what you're saying but I can't give him that pass. He's not the first great player to have multiple finals runs and we never gave them the tired legs excuse. That's how we seperate the all time greats from everybody else.

Lets be honest they can sit D Wade the rest of season and still get a free ticket to the ECF as horrible as the east is. If they lose this year I think it's just because Indy is a better team.

But if KD keeps it up all the way to a ring I see no reason not to say he's the best. It's like Magic and Bird man, whoever wins gets the props. No excuses.

I do think Indy's the better team and I do think Miami will lose, but I also think KD and OKC would and maybe will lose to Indy.

And we'll have to disagree on the fatigue factor. MJ never made 4 straight finals, and neither did anyone else after him. Bird's mid 80's Celtics were the last to make 4 straight (won/lost/won/lost) 30 years ago and those Celtics were even more stacked with HOF level and prime talent than Miami. We never saw it from Shaq/Kobe/Duncan, etc. And that's in large part because of how draining and difficult finals runs are. I personally never discount how hard it must be to make consecutive Finals runs, let alone 4.

You're right on the East factor - especially this season - but that's essentially what they're doing with Wade (all the toughest games from a fatigue standpoint for Miami he will sit, which puts more on Lebron... the guy who led the playoffs in minutes played 3 straight years now).

Swashcuff
01-22-2014, 05:17 PM
I had another account on this website in like 2008 I made like the day after the bulls got the #1 draft pick but I couldn't remember the password or email so I made a new one. At the time I remember everyone but Lakers fans liking him. In fact that's what I thought your signature was alluding too? Obviously the decision happened then the media and everything else had a lot of people change their minds about him.

I changed my sig when the plethora of hate started pouring in. I do remember however how much hate LeBron got in Cleveland (from none Lakers fans) for things like wearing Jordan's number, speaking of his stats, dancing on the sidelines, being compared to MJ/Kobe etc and a host of other things. LeBron got a great deal of hate in Cleveland.

holditdown
01-22-2014, 05:24 PM
I would say nobody in the league is without a doubt better than LeBron because of consistency.

It is awesome that though that he finally has a rival.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-22-2014, 05:25 PM
Those defensive numbers are indeed lying to you.

Who is backing up LeBron on D?

Who is backup up KD on D?

Thought so.


Agreed. However lebron hasn't been his dominant self on that end of the floor this season.

Blame it on auto cruise, blah blah, either way you spin it, this season he's been average or slightly above at best.

Durant, while playing with ibaka (who is a top 2 candidate in DPOY and also 4th in blocks this season) and Thabo might have his defensive stats a little inflated, but it would be rude and biased of anyone to say durant hasn't been impressive this season on that floor as well.

If you don't look at all variables, then yes, durant is playing better basketball than bron so far.

Swashcuff
01-22-2014, 05:28 PM
People aren't interpreting the question correctly. Saying that KD has surpassed Bron doesn't have anything to do with past performances. It's simply, is KD at a higher level at this point and going forward.

I think the question all comes back to the fact that Bron plays on the best team in the NBA in terms of personnel. He's not forced to do as much, can rely on his teammates, and is able to pad his stats across the line. We've seen him carry a team when he was in CLE but could he still do that? Probably, but unfortunately for all the NBA fans with exception of those in MIA, we'll probably never see it again.

So LeBron went to Mia effectively reducing his scoring, rebounding and assists numbers but he's padding his stats? Interesting take. Funny though because we heard he pad his stats in Cleveland now we're hearing it in Mia. Smh.

naps
01-22-2014, 05:31 PM
KD has been playing some unreal basketball right now. No way he keeps it up at this rate, specially not a shot when Westbrook comes back. LeBron has been the best on the planet for 6 years now and for KD to take on that #1 spot, it will take a lot more than a half season of great basketball. You are talking about the guy who has been the hands down best for 5+ years and is the reigning back-to-back champ and MVP. Anyways, KD will take it from LeBron sooner than I expected. Make no mistake we are witnessing two of the finest players this league has ever seen.

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 05:31 PM
I wouldn't mind a KD v Lebron finals, although I think KD v George would be better basketball and probably go 7.....

holditdown
01-22-2014, 05:32 PM
So LeBron went to Mia effectively reducing his scoring, rebounding and assists numbers but he's padding his stats? Interesting take. Funny though because we heard he pad his stats in Cleveland now we're hearing it in Mia. Smh.

Playing with Wade, Bosh, Allen and Battier probably doesn't hurt his efficiency. Volume numbers? Yea.

He's soft and I'm a self declared hater though.

TmacBryant
01-22-2014, 05:34 PM
KD: 30.9 ppg/ 7.8/ 5.1 apg/ .639 TS%

'Bron: 26.2 ppg/ 6.7 rpg/ 6.5 apg/ .661 TS%


According to Numbers Never Lie... KD is giving up less 3 less points per 100 possessions than 'Bron as a primary defender. KD is also 3rd among all small forwards on defense behind Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.


Will PSD finally crown KD as the best player in the game? Numbers don't lie.

Kobe fan here.

Lebron is on a better team and doesn't need to shoot as much. KD might win MVP based on stats, but Lebron is still better.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-22-2014, 05:36 PM
I wouldn't mind a KD v Lebron finals, although I think KD v George would be better basketball and probably go 7.....

Lol you're something else.

Only a biased fan wouldn't wanna see the top 2 players dog it out for the best In the world title.

Smh ridiculous.

This has potential to be better than magic vs bird.

Swashcuff
01-22-2014, 05:36 PM
Playing with Wade, Bosh, Allen and Battier probably doesn't hurt his efficiency. Volume numbers? Yea.

He's soft and I'm a self declared hater though.

Well makes no sense even trying to speak to someone like you.

holditdown
01-22-2014, 05:39 PM
Lol you're something else.

Only a biased fan wouldn't wanna see the top 2 players dog it out for the best In the world title.

Smh ridiculous.

This has potential to be better than magic vs bird.

Would have been awesome if it was Durant vs Cleveland LeBron, but he threw away that chance.

naps
01-22-2014, 05:41 PM
I wouldn't mind a KD v Lebron finals, although I think KD v George would be better basketball and probably go 7.....

Really? KD vs George OVER KD vs LeBron? Haha...Kobe fans are awesome.

BTW, I have no problem if that's what you wanna see but saying it would be better basketball is ridiculous. George is no where near either Durant or LeBron.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-22-2014, 05:41 PM
Would have been awesome if it was Durant vs Cleveland LeBron, but he threw away that chance.

As long as kd is guarding bron, and bron is guarding kd. I'm good.

I love this!

rhd420
01-22-2014, 05:42 PM
Man, people are buying the KD midseason performance as surpassing a MVP and two time champ?

Wow, the second his team fades in the playoffs ... is it KD's fault? When his numbers come back down when Westbrook comes back but yet the team wins does it make him less of a player?

You're immortalized in the championships, not mid season performances

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-22-2014, 05:42 PM
So pumped for Jan. 29

naps
01-22-2014, 05:45 PM
Would have been awesome if it was Durant vs Cleveland LeBron, but he threw away that chance.

What? It could easily be argued if LeBron had westbrook and Ibaka in Cleveland instead of Mo williams and Big Z he would have won every title since 2007.

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 05:45 PM
Lol you're something else.

Only a biased fan wouldn't wanna see the top 2 players dog it out for the best In the world title.

Smh ridiculous.

This has potential to be better than magic vs bird.

I believe I said better BASKETBALL. You know as in two teams which are suited to give you a close long series? As in KD v Lebron would've been the sexier matchup last year (no homo) but Mia v Spurs was better basketball?

And I'm a fan of none of those teams btw so bias? Everybody doesn't hate the Heat buddy, sorry...

albertajaysfan
01-22-2014, 05:50 PM
KD is having a phenomenal year and is easily the MVP so far, but you need to relax. Any rational human being with eyes can see LBJ is playing on auto-pilot, all while KD is playing the best ball of his young career (and to think people say he hasn't hit his prime yet). Sorry, but 5 years & counting of sustained greatness is better than a month or two of great play. LeBron is still the best player in the game by a decent margin....

I agree with everything except that last sentence. It is no longer a wide margin.

My question is if they OP meant right now at this moment? Or based on previous success? Because those are two different questions that have two different answers.

SeoulBeatz
01-22-2014, 05:55 PM
KD has been on an incredible tear lately, but if I'm trying to win a chip give me Lebron all day. He's just on another level from the rest of the competition with his two-way game, efficiency, and athleticism.

PhillyFaninLA
01-22-2014, 05:55 PM
Teach me. Present some evidence to back up your LeBron > KD stance.

Watch a game, understand the game, and understand that stats don't tell the story

You are clueless if your not just creating a topic to create a topic

mrblisterdundee
01-22-2014, 05:55 PM
I really have to sigh at how people try to judge players while mostly ignoring the context of their role on a team. Durant's doing so great statistically because Westbrook's been injured. Not to mention that the Thunder got rid of Martin, their third leading scorer from last season.
If James didn't have Wade or Bosh, I'm sure he'd be ripping it up statistically, more than he already is. Durant's current position is comparable to James' in Cleveland, when he stuffed the stats that much more because of the lesser talent level around him.
Meanwhile, James is physically superior to Durant in almost every way, except for maybe the length of his arms. James can defend everyone, from Russell Westbrook and Stephen Curry to Dwight Howard and Roy Hibbert. You can't say that about Durant.

RiceOnTheRun
01-22-2014, 05:59 PM
If KD can keep up this level of production when Westbrook returns and throughout the post-season, it could be arguable. But let's be honest, Lebron is coming off of 3 full post-seasons, plus the Olympics. That's exhausting for any player to take so it's expected for his play to "decline".

KD is without a doubt MVP this season imo. He's earned it and it'd be ridiculous to say he doesn't deserve it. Even still, I wouldn't say he's surpassed him until he demonstrates he can sustain this level of production over a period of time and for when it counts.

Minimal
01-22-2014, 06:00 PM
Durant attempts 3 more shots per 36 minutes than LeBron, he gets a lot of tiky tack calls. LeBron is 58% FG, Durant 50%, Durant sligthly rebounds better, LeBron passes like a champ, LeBron is better defensively. LeBron is proven, Durant, not yet. LeBron is much better than the stats say this season and we all know it, he is taking it easy this regular season.

Durant is not better than LeBron, but he is close.

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 06:10 PM
Really? KD vs George OVER KD vs LeBron? Haha...Kobe fans are awesome.

BTW, I have no problem if that's what you wanna see but saying it would be better basketball is ridiculous. George is no where near either Durant or LeBron.

Is Duncan better than KD? No but last I checked the Spurs gave us a classic Finals for all ages last year. Playoffs are all about matchups....

And nice try once again throwing Kobe in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with him btw!

3RDASYSTEM
01-22-2014, 06:51 PM
They will have no choice after they examine the numbers.

Funny thing is you don't need numbers, just look at when they first entered the league, KD was always more pure scorer and BRON was always better all around/impact, its just now KD is getting more assists and boards to match BRON to make it this 'will he pass BRON'

to me it's always been pretty even, regardless of numbers, watching and playing the game makes numbers useless when ranking/judging players, especially the best of the best cream of the crop

for instance just go look at the MVP race past 3-4yrs to prove my point, or who has had a top 2 record out WEST past few yrs outside of S.A., KD and OKC right? best record with the best player equals what? KD has been in this discussion for years but BRON keeps taking home the hardware while KD is like 1A at worst

3RDASYSTEM
01-22-2014, 07:11 PM
Durant attempts 3 more shots per 36 minutes than LeBron, he gets a lot of tiky tack calls. LeBron is 58% FG, Durant 50%, Durant sligthly rebounds better, LeBron passes like a champ, LeBron is better defensively. LeBron is proven, Durant, not yet. LeBron is much better than the stats say this season and we all know it, he is taking it easy this regular season.

Durant is not better than LeBron, but he is close.

this is what makes psd a pure joke

DURANT is not proven? child please, BRON was 'proven' preMIAMI, go check his rookie year 03' and his 09' and 10' for further proof of proven, KD is a 3x scoring champ and is in like his 6th season or so

you don't need to win a ring to be proven, but you do need to destroy the competition like they have since they entered the league pretty much, that's proven without a doubt

BRON is taking it easy because of the wear and tear of playing many games and out of position down low, and DWADE Isnt helping either with like 15 games missed already, or somewhere in that ballpark

taking it easy = coasting thru regular season since nobody can compete outside of PACERS

R. Johnson#3
01-22-2014, 07:21 PM
Lebron is shooting 58% and taking 16.5 shots a game. Take that in for a second.

colinskik
01-22-2014, 07:21 PM
So LeBron went to Mia effectively reducing his scoring, rebounding and assists numbers but he's padding his stats? Interesting take. Funny though because we heard he pad his stats in Cleveland now we're hearing it in Mia. Smh.

Ok, maybe the term padding stats is too subjective. What I should've said is that he doesn't have to be the one and only person on the team to make things happen, which he was heavily criticized for in Cleveland with making passes instead of shots at the end of games.

In reality, the two are different players. Bron wants to facilitate more than KD and KD is more of a natural scorer. But, having two great players in Wade and Bosh on your team makes it much harder for teams to hone in on him as much.

UPRock
01-22-2014, 07:37 PM
One month sample size, just awesome.

Baller1
01-22-2014, 07:38 PM
KD has not passed Lebron, but he has joined him.

Minimal
01-22-2014, 07:40 PM
this is what makes psd a pure joke

DURANT is not proven? child please, BRON was 'proven' preMIAMI, go check his rookie year 03' and his 09' and 10' for further proof of proven, KD is a 3x scoring champ and is in like his 6th season or so

you don't need to win a ring to be proven, but you do need to destroy the competition like they have since they entered the league pretty much, that's proven without a doubt

BRON is taking it easy because of the wear and tear of playing many games and out of position down low, and DWADE Isnt helping either with like 15 games missed already, or somewhere in that ballpark

taking it easy = coasting thru regular season since nobody can compete outside of PACERS
What does scoing championships mean? Where is Carmelo now? Is he proven? Being proven and being a great player is two different things, LeBron was the best player before he joined Miami, no question, but he wasn't proven at that time, he was being mentally "eaten" by celtics all the time. By proven I mean, Durant didn't really prove himself in the playoffs. In the finals he couldn't handle LeBron, its like he collapsed under pressure, no matter the stats he put. westbrook for me was the leader on that team in the finals, he was mentally prepared. Last year without westbrook Durant once again underperformed in the playoffs and lost in 2nd round. LeBron had his own dark playoff history, but in the end he proved he is a champion. LeBron and Durant are pretty even statistically, if they meet in the finals again and Durant wins, thats where you could say he is better than Bron, considering their teams are both good. I believe Westbrook has that "Bron" factor on OKC and without him Durant won't go any deep in the playoffs, he can score 40+ all he wants, but he won't go deep.

valade16
01-22-2014, 07:41 PM
Durant attempts 3 more shots per 36 minutes than LeBron, he gets a lot of tiky tack calls. LeBron is 58% FG, Durant 50%, Durant sligthly rebounds better, LeBron passes like a champ, LeBron is better defensively. LeBron is proven, Durant, not yet. LeBron is much better than the stats say this season and we all know it, he is taking it easy this regular season.

Durant is not better than LeBron, but he is close.

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that LeBron is coasting and will return to form and be the best player on the planet come playoff time. My question is, what, other than your opinion, makes you say that?

How come nobody is considering the possibility that this might be the LeBron we should get used to? He is 30 years old, and it is a very old 30 considering the sheer volume of minutes and games he’s played over the course of his career. Kevin Garnett seemed to fall from possibly best (or at least most efficient) player to very good around this time.

I also find it interesting that people bring up the wear and tear on Bron’s body from the last few years winning titles and playing in the Olympics. Kevin Durant has played a very large amount of games over that span too; in fact the difference would likely be around 10 games difference over that span. Is that enough to attribute sever fatigue on one and not the other?

Ultimately it’s LeBron, so I understand giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I find it odd that no one even considers that it might not be him coasting.

holditdown
01-22-2014, 07:50 PM
KD is the better scorer and LeBron at the all around stuff. But they can both do it all. It's not like Durant can't pass like early in his career. It's not like LeBron can't score.

championships
01-22-2014, 07:59 PM
I have always thought KD had a better all around game than LBJ.

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 08:00 PM
It seems to be a foregone conclusion that LeBron is coasting and will return to form and be the best player on the planet come playoff time. My question is, what, other than your opinion, makes you say that?

How come nobody is considering the possibility that this might be the LeBron we should get used to? He is 30 years old, and it is a very old 30 considering the sheer volume of minutes and games he’s played over the course of his career. Kevin Garnett seemed to fall from possibly best (or at least most efficient) player to very good around this time.

I also find it interesting that people bring up the wear and tear on Bron’s body from the last few years winning titles and playing in the Olympics. Kevin Durant has played a very large amount of games over that span too; in fact the difference would likely be around 10 games difference over that span. Is that enough to attribute sever fatigue on one and not the other?

Ultimately it’s LeBron, so I understand giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I find it odd that no one even considers that it might not be him coasting.

Nice post

Minimal
01-22-2014, 08:04 PM
It seems to be a foregone conclusion that LeBron is coasting and will return to form and be the best player on the planet come playoff time. My question is, what, other than your opinion, makes you say that?

How come nobody is considering the possibility that this might be the LeBron we should get used to? He is 30 years old, and it is a very old 30 considering the sheer volume of minutes and games he’s played over the course of his career. Kevin Garnett seemed to fall from possibly best (or at least most efficient) player to very good around this time.

I also find it interesting that people bring up the wear and tear on Bron’s body from the last few years winning titles and playing in the Olympics. Kevin Durant has played a very large amount of games over that span too; in fact the difference would likely be around 10 games difference over that span. Is that enough to attribute sever fatigue on one and not the other?

Ultimately it’s LeBron, so I understand giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I find it odd that no one even considers that it might not be him coasting.
LeBron just recently turned 29 duh. And lol at LeBron being old... The fact is LeBron is one of the most durable players in the NBA. His playstyle doesn't wear him of. How often do we see LeBron get an injury? Almost never. IMO he is gonna stay in his prime form up until 35 or so, then he is gonna fall off little by little.

valade16
01-22-2014, 08:15 PM
LeBron just recently turned 29 duh. And lol at LeBron being old... The fact is LeBron is one of the most durable players in the NBA. His playstyle doesn't wear him of. How often do we see LeBron get an injury? Almost never. IMO he is gonna stay in his prime form up until 35 or so, then he is gonna fall off little by little.

If LeBron were able to play at his peak until age 35 I believe he would be the first player ever to do so. While you may believe that I will believe in the reality of aging and wear and tear on an NBA players body (and we can let the rest of the forum decide which of us is being unreasonable as a result of their fandom)…

LeBron has now played 11 seasons. He may not appear old in age, but he is old in terms of volume of minutes. He has currently played 31,000 minutes in the regular season. Garnett at the same age (as another player who came out of HS) had played 32,000, and Garnett didn’t play as much in the postseason as LeBron has either. I’d be willing to wager that LeBron has probably played more minute’s total (playoffs included) in his first 11 seasons than any player ever. That takes a heavy toll on the body.

At this age and point in Garnett’s career we saw his PER go from 27.5 the previous 2 seasons to 24.6. Not a precipitous drop but a noticeable one; one just large enough to go from best player in the world to among the best.

It’s entirely possible that this is all because LeBron is coasting. I just find it curious that no one even seems willing to consider the fact that he might be starting his slow but eventual decline…

Chronz
01-22-2014, 08:23 PM
It seems to be a foregone conclusion that LeBron is coasting and will return to form and be the best player on the planet come playoff time. My question is, what, other than your opinion, makes you say that?
Champs this battle tested tend to save their legs. Its a sign of decline in a way but from what I've observed, players that dont go full bore in the RS have a few post seasons of prime dominance left in them. But yea the end is near.

bucketss
01-22-2014, 08:36 PM
I have always thought KD had a better all around game than LBJ.

hes a better scorer, and what else, since you mentioned better overall player.

SINCESTARBURY25
01-22-2014, 08:38 PM
I really wish Durant would just blow the NBA off the map and start averaging like 40 ppg a game and take over I have always loved him since they were terrible their first year. I wish Durant would take over in the playoffs and win a ring this year.

JEDean89
01-22-2014, 08:40 PM
KD is being asked to do way more than Lebron, who meerly needs to get his team to the playoffs. i think if wade or bosh wen't down for the season he would step it up.

i think clearly KD is the greatest offensive talent we've seen in a long time, he is prime kobe/tmac good. his defense still is not as supreme as Lebron's, nor his transition game both ways. Lebron is a better passer and perhaps the most unselfish superstar we've seen in a long time. i love that we have both in their prime against each other, an OKC/MIA finals would be a dream.

KnicksorBust
01-22-2014, 09:03 PM
Both arguments are extremely easy to make at this point.

The Case for Kevin Durant:
League Leading Scorer
Incredible Efficiency
Underrated Rebounder
Has become an elite passer for his position
Has become a top defender at his position

The Case for LeBron James:
Defending League MVP
Defending Finals MVP
League Leading 66% TS%
Accepted as an elite player at every skill (scoring/passing/rebounding/defending)

The question is simply based on preference. Does a slightly superior individual season overtake the previous 4-5 seasons? Personally, I think LeBron James retains the title of best player until the Heat are no longer the NBA Champions. Meaning, sorry KD but you have to keep waiting. Don't worry, your Karl Malone style MVPs are coming.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-22-2014, 09:22 PM
Durant has definitely passed lebron this year, and Lebron will never get his spot back. This is the year Lebron starts to decline, tho it will take a couple more years for lebron to really decline hard. Lebron is lucky to have had one of the greatest teams of all time, while playing in the weakest conference in NBA history otherwise he wouldn't have gotten any rings and Durant would be considered the best already.

koreancabbage
01-22-2014, 09:24 PM
Durant has definitely passed lebron this year, and Lebron will never get his spot back. This is the year Lebron starts to decline, tho it will take a couple more years for lebron to really decline hard. Lebron is lucky to have had one of the greatest teams of all time, while playing in the weakest conference in NBA history otherwise he wouldn't have gotten any rings and Durant would be considered the best already.

still beat the best of the west. #enoughsaid.

even if you say Durant did pass Lebron, it would highlight how much better Durant is compared to Kobe lol

jerellh528
01-22-2014, 09:27 PM
still beat the best of the west. #enoughsaid.

even if you say Durant did pass Lebron, it would highlight how much better Durant is compared to Kobe lol

You're obsessed with Kobe lol

ATX
01-22-2014, 09:29 PM
Durant has definitely passed lebron this year, and Lebron will never get his spot back. This is the year Lebron starts to decline, tho it will take a couple more years for lebron to really decline hard. Lebron is lucky to have had one of the greatest teams of all time, while playing in the weakest conference in NBA history otherwise he wouldn't have gotten any rings and Durant would be considered the best already.

Same **** as always. Thanks for the exact same post you've posted over 3k times before. It's amazing how much of your world is tied up with comments about LeBron James.

koreancabbage
01-22-2014, 09:30 PM
You're obsessed with Kobe lol

i like him as a player too but you Kobe fans make him better than he was.

ATX
01-22-2014, 09:31 PM
You're obsessed with Kobe lol

This is about Illusionist's obsession with James. I've never seen anything like it.

CityofChaos
01-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Let's be real...Kevin Durant is the better SCORER. The best in the league. Period.

Lebron's offensive skill set maybe slightly inferior to Durant's, but the fact that LJ is the better defender, shot blocker, and willing passer will always give him the edge.

mngopher35
01-22-2014, 09:42 PM
In the MVP race? Definitely.

As an overall player? A bit too early but it is possible by the end of the year.

Durant has been playing unreal as of late, let's stop with whether or not Lebron is declining/coasting and focus on Durant. We will see what Lebron has come playoff time because for him that's what really matters now. I hope we get to see OKC vs. Miami (both at full strength) in the finals again.

koreancabbage
01-22-2014, 09:45 PM
Let's be real...Kevin Durant is the better SCORER. The best in the league. Period.

Lebron's offensive skill set maybe slightly inferior to Durant's, but the fact that LJ is the better defender, shot blocker, and willing passer will always give him the edge.

as a scorer yes, but as a passer and court vision and running the team, Durant isn't as good as Lebron when it comes to that.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-22-2014, 09:47 PM
PSD will never do that

If it was true, they would no doubt admit it. Extortionately, it isn't true.

R. Johnson#3
01-22-2014, 11:42 PM
Durant has definitely passed lebron this year, and Lebron will never get his spot back. This is the year Lebron starts to decline, tho it will take a couple more years for lebron to really decline hard. Lebron is lucky to have had one of the greatest teams of all time, while playing in the weakest conference in NBA history otherwise he wouldn't have gotten any rings and Durant would be considered the best already.

Ihaveno words?

JordansBulls
01-22-2014, 11:47 PM
Durant has definitely passed lebron this year, and Lebron will never get his spot back. This is the year Lebron starts to decline, tho it will take a couple more years for lebron to really decline hard. Lebron is lucky to have had one of the greatest teams of all time, while playing in the weakest conference in NBA history otherwise he wouldn't have gotten any rings and Durant would be considered the best already.
I agree with a lot of this, not all though. Good post though!!!

NBA_Starter
01-22-2014, 11:50 PM
He is on a heck of a streak but he is not there yet.

RocketLoc80
01-22-2014, 11:51 PM
I agree with a lot of this, not all though. Good post though!!!

Of course you would troll

OlivaThor
01-22-2014, 11:52 PM
I agree with a lot of this, not all though. Good post though!!!

Bulls and lakers fans bashing Lebron. Im suprised

holditdown
01-22-2014, 11:55 PM
Bulls and lakers fans bashing Lebron. Im suprised

Not a fan of those teams, but those aren't soft franchises. So I can see why.

JordansBulls
01-23-2014, 12:02 AM
Bulls and lakers fans bashing Lebron. Im suprised

What do you mean? He mentioned Durant did he not? Durant right now has the best stats in the league and leading the league in scoring.

LanceUpperCut
01-23-2014, 12:03 AM
LBJ doesn't care about stats that's why no matter how much I want to hate him I just can't he's a flat out winner and can simply do anything on the hardwood better than anyone else if he wants to. I love Durant but LBJ can turn any team into a NBA winner not sure if I can say the same about KD yet. I really think LBJ should but probably won't go down as number 1 or 2 players of all time with Jordan.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-23-2014, 12:19 AM
Durant has definitely passed lebron this year, and Lebron will never get his spot back. This is the year Lebron starts to decline, tho it will take a couple more years for lebron to really decline hard. Lebron is lucky to have had one of the greatest teams of all time, while playing in the weakest conference in NBA history otherwise he wouldn't have gotten any rings and Durant would be considered the best already.

still beat the best of the west. #enoughsaid.

even if you say Durant did pass Lebron, it would highlight how much better Durant is compared to Kobe lol

They beat a old and laughable spurs team, try beating them when all three are in their prime like Kobe did multiple times. Not to mention Lebron needed Ray Ray to hit the clutchest shot in basketball history in order for them to beat the Spurs.

IKnowHoops
01-23-2014, 12:19 AM
Man, been banned for a while, some chick was all over my junk in the boxing forum and pulled a slick one on me. Anyway, this could be or could not be the point at which Durant surpasses Lebron. We have to wait and see how everything finishes up. Lebron has had better runs than what KD is doing. But I personally have watched Lebron play a lot of uninspired b-ball this year. He's been getting beat defensively and turning the ball over more this year than I have seen in the last 5. The combination of his lax play and KD's "legendary play" aka what Bron has been doing for the past five years, definitely can start this argument.

Ive heard Lebron is all athletics, and KD is all skill. Thats just stupid. KD, while not as freaky as Lebron athletically, is freakier in his dimensions with his 6'11 height and 7'3 wingspan.

KD is a freak too.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-23-2014, 12:21 AM
(null) Exactly, Durant has better stats and has been better on defense, yet lebron fans will say anything just to keep their god at #1. What's even more funny is that they did the same thing when it came to Kobe vs Lebron. Straight hypocrites!

koreancabbage
01-23-2014, 12:45 AM
They beat a old and laughable spurs team, try beating them when all three are in their prime like Kobe did multiple times. Not to mention Lebron needed Ray Ray to hit the clutchest shot in basketball history in order for them to beat the Spurs.

i see what you're doing. you're saying the same old stuff thinking we will believe you lol. Maybe they could beat them - you would never know. the fact that you believe your opinions are facts is the best part. You keep bringing up the rings argument, so i'm using it. Now, its because the 2nd seed Spurs of the Western conference is considered old and not good all of a sudden and laughable. Where are Kobe's Lakers at?

As far we know, as a fact, Kobe and Lebron have the same amount of rings as the main guy. Unfortunately for Kobe, Lebron has done it sooner than Kobe. does that make you mad?

And when it Kobe's turn to be the main guy, he beat a laughable inexperienced Magic and old Celtics team. Last years Spurs team would have beaten those laughable Magic and Celtics team. and the one year the Finals MVP could have gone to Kobe or Gasol in peoples minds - it would be really hard to tell if Kobe was the real catalyst to that championship.

your argument is so weak "they beat an old and laughable spurs team". Horry and Fisher has saved Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan many times. Its not like its the first time a role player has stepped for a star player. Its not like Kobe hasn't missed and its not like Ray Allen is some chump. He's one of the clutchest players in nba history - unlike Kobe - who's clutchness is an urban myth you still cling onto.

koreancabbage
01-23-2014, 12:48 AM
Exactly, Durant has better stats and has been better on defense, yet lebron fans will say anything just to keep their god at #1. What's even more funny is that they did the same thing when it came to Kobe vs Lebron. Straight hypocrites!

i think people are saying Durant is the best player at this moment and time but a string of games does not define who the best player is. clinging at straws once again.

but i'll entertain you even more: if Durant holds his stats for a few more years - you're looking at two players people would be considered better than Kobe when its all said and done.

bucketss
01-23-2014, 12:50 AM
jordan - lebron - durant, three greatest players these past decades. scoring,defense,passing,efficient, i will give durant the props, he is the best scorer i have seen since jordan!, damn, isn't he shooting like 60% during this scoring streak? this kid is insane.

P&GRealist
01-23-2014, 12:51 AM
LeBron is still the best. He is a superior defender to Durant. He can dominate a game without having to score at all. His overall floor game and getting guys involved is what makes him LeBron. He is the best. Durant is 2nd to him.

koreancabbage
01-23-2014, 12:57 AM
jordan - lebron - durant, three greatest players these past decades. scoring,defense,passing,efficient, i will give durant the props, he is the best scorer i have seen since jordan!, damn, isn't he shooting like 60% during this scoring streak? this kid is insane.

and he's being doing it while shooting a ton more 3s as well. which is crazy. and averaging close to 10 boards or something like that and 5 assists - crazy.

Chronz
01-23-2014, 12:59 AM
Exactly, Durant has better stats and has been better on defense, yet lebron fans will say anything just to keep their god at #1. What's even more funny is that they did the same thing when it came to Kobe vs Lebron. Straight hypocrites!

Like whom?

naps
01-23-2014, 01:00 AM
Durant has definitely passed lebron this year, and Lebron will never get his spot back. This is the year Lebron starts to decline, tho it will take a couple more years for lebron to really decline hard. Lebron is lucky to have had one of the greatest teams of all time, while playing in the weakest conference in NBA history otherwise he wouldn't have gotten any rings and Durant would be considered the best already.

There you go! You are one of 4/5 kobephiles (pretty much all but one are contributing their regular BS in this thread already) that are obsessed with LeBron and jump into every LeBron thread to write stuff like this.

JordansBulls
01-23-2014, 01:05 AM
LeBron is still the best. He is a superior defender to Durant. He can dominate a game without having to score at all. His overall floor game and getting guys involved is what makes him LeBron. He is the best. Durant is 2nd to him.

Not a superior defender. A superior defender doesn't allow a player who plays the same position to average more on him in the playoffs than they averaged in the season on greater FG% at that.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2014, 01:07 AM
Agree with most of the post, but not sure you can say this so confidently...

I say it with 10000000% confidence. For this season and next, any GM would take LeBron James over any basketball player on the planet. Now, if we start expanding that to the next 5-7 years, Durant at age 25 with FAR less mileage would be the answer.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2014, 01:10 AM
This current kd season is better than anything Lebron has ever produced, but he has to sustain if through the postseason and win a ring before we should claim he's the best. Lebron has the jewelry to back it up.

not so much.

bucketss
01-23-2014, 01:13 AM
Not a superior defender. A superior defender doesn't allow a player who plays the same position to average more on him in the playoffs than they averaged in the season on greater FG% at that.

durant can't be a superior defender because he puts his pants on two legs at the time, every great nba defender does it one leg at a time. this is what your arguements sound like. im not saying i dissagree LOL but your reasoning .....

Hawkeye15
01-23-2014, 01:14 AM
To put KD's season in perspective though, it would be the highest scoring volume ever reached at his level of efficiency (up to 64% TS at 31 ppg), and on pace for the 2nd highest WS/48 in NBA history to Kareem's epic '72 MVP season (KD's at .329). His assist% is at a career high with his turnover% approaching a career low, and per-synergy he ranks in the top 5 in the NBA overall in both Iso Defense and PnR Defense (~.51 ppp).

He's just become the guy with no holes, and doing it at an insanely high level. It's ON PACE (big difference from finishing off the year) for one of the best single regular seasons we've seen. But normally that takes a slight dip in the 2nd half when we see 1st half runs like this.

And as far as what this thread's OP brought up, not there yet. We made LBJ earn it and he was CONSTANTLY bashed for not winning a ring until it happened (obviously not by all, but by enough), so why the double standard?

Because LeBron was shoved down everyones throat as the chosen one since age 16. Durant NEVER endured the hype or scrutiny LeBron did from day 1-current. Fair or not, it's the truth.

John Walls Era
01-23-2014, 01:15 AM
KD is the better scorer. Thats a fact. But you can't say hes surpassed Lebron. Lebron will get it done when it counts.

John Walls Era
01-23-2014, 01:15 AM
Because LeBron was shoved down everyones throat as the chosen one since age 16. Durant NEVER endured the hype or scrutiny LeBron did from day 1-current. Fair or not, it's the truth.

and Lebron has lived up to the hype.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2014, 01:29 AM
and Lebron has lived up to the hype.

and then some.....

I simply meant it as a retort to Tre that there is a legit reason why Durant has never been judged like LeBron was/has.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-23-2014, 01:38 AM
They beat a old and laughable spurs team, try beating them when all three are in their prime like Kobe did multiple times. Not to mention Lebron needed Ray Ray to hit the clutchest shot in basketball history in order for them to beat the Spurs.

i see what you're doing. you're saying the same old stuff thinking we will believe you lol. Maybe they could beat them - you would never know. the fact that you believe your opinions are facts is the best part. You keep bringing up the rings argument, so i'm using it. Now, its because the 2nd seed Spurs of the Western conference is considered old and not good all of a sudden and laughable. Where are Kobe's Lakers at?

As far we know, as a fact, Kobe and Lebron have the same amount of rings as the main guy. Unfortunately for Kobe, Lebron has done it sooner than Kobe. does that make you mad?

And when it Kobe's turn to be the main guy, he beat a laughable inexperienced Magic and old Celtics team. Last years Spurs team would have beaten those laughable Magic and Celtics team. and the one year the Finals MVP could have gone to Kobe or Gasol in peoples minds - it would be really hard to tell if Kobe was the real catalyst to that championship.

your argument is so weak "they beat an old and laughable spurs team". Horry and Fisher has saved Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan many times. Its not like its the first time a role player has stepped for a star player. Its not like Kobe hasn't missed and its not like Ray Allen is some chump. He's one of the clutchest players in nba history - unlike Kobe - who's clutchness is an urban myth you still cling onto.


The Spurs are an ok team, but won't get back to the finals in the next ten years, and would have never been there last year had Westbrook been healthy. Go look up the age of the trio on the spurs big guy. Kobe had to vs the guys in their prime, not when they're ready to retire. I also fail to see the point of the Lakers seeding in this argument?

Sorry jr, but Kobe has 5 rings compared to Lebrons 2, and Kobe had to go through the the west to get his rings, which happens to be 10x harder than the pathetic east Lebrons currently in.

Are you dumb? Kobe had to take out a prime Spurs team just to get a shot at the east in the finals. The Spurs team Kobe and co smacked up were better than any team lebron has faced in his career. Is it Kobe's fault he had to kick the magic and celtics *** because the Vegas favorites Cavs( led by lebron lol irony) failed to make it there? Ha!

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-23-2014, 01:40 AM
Exactly, Durant has better stats and has been better on defense, yet lebron fans will say anything just to keep their god at #1. What's even more funny is that they did the same thing when it came to Kobe vs Lebron. Straight hypocrites!

Like whom?

All of the bron gobblers? Let's be real FC!

bucketss
01-23-2014, 01:50 AM
i'll gladly gobble lebron, no homo ofcourse.

Pierre The Poet
01-23-2014, 01:52 AM
KD is nasty...but he's no Lebron

P&GRealist
01-23-2014, 01:57 AM
i'll gladly gobble lebron, no homo ofcourse.

Disgusting :laugh2:

tredigs
01-23-2014, 02:04 AM
Because LeBron was shoved down everyones throat as the chosen one since age 16. Durant NEVER endured the hype or scrutiny LeBron did from day 1-current. Fair or not, it's the truth.

I understand that is why we initially made LBJ earn it, but when you talk about a player becoming the #1 player in the league, by default that becomes the threshold. Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, etc went through the same scrutiny until they won. With Bird/Magic/Duncan/Kobe they won immediately enough that they did not have to hear it (obviously all being in much better situations to win. Nobody is saying this is fair).

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-23-2014, 02:26 AM
i'll gladly gobble lebron, no homo ofcourse.

damn i wish douglas would have said this :(

IKnowHoops
01-23-2014, 02:30 AM
Let's be real...Kevin Durant is the better SCORER. The best in the league. Period.

Lebron's offensive skill set maybe slightly inferior to Durant's, but the fact that LJ is the better defender, shot blocker, and willing passer will always give him the edge.

The one thing people forget when they compare Durant's scoring ability to Brons is that even though Durant has more things he can do from an offensive standpoint. Bron is still the best in the league at getting the highest percentage shot, which is layups and Dunks.

There are many centers like Drob, Hakeem, and Ewing that could shoot better and had a better skill set than Shaq, but they were not harder to stop.

The god given Body that Lebron has needs to be accounted for. And even though Durant has a deeper arsenal of scoring ability, I think Lebron is still harder to stop from scoring. Watching both players, Lebron still draws more attention from opposing defenses then KD does. Its like teams take there chances guarding KD one on one all game long where as with Lebron, that ship has sailed and guarding him one on one isn't even an option. He gets that straight team defense where 3 guys are always in position to get in his way.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2014, 02:33 AM
I understand that is why we initially made LBJ earn it, but when you talk about a player becoming the #1 player in the league, by default that becomes the threshold. Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, etc went through the same scrutiny until they won. With Bird/Magic/Duncan/Kobe they won immediately enough that they did not have to hear it (obviously all being in much better situations to win. Nobody is saying this is fair).

Initially? I don't know. The biggest problem is, LeBron was statistically challenged by nobody from 07-11', but wasn't winning chips, along with what I mentioned. It was a **** storm of hatred. Durant will most likely never go through that, at least for the next 2-3 years, because despite him being a once in a generation talent, we feel sorry for him because the chosen one is in his prime.

Drummond#1
01-23-2014, 05:23 AM
Lucky for LBJ this isn't game of thrones. His head would be on a spike by now.

KD for MVP and Finals MVP. He has the heart of a champion and is humble. Other once in an era talents should take note.

Drummond#1
01-23-2014, 05:30 AM
It's going to be awesome to see all of these ******** Heat screen names disappear this summer... A bunch of people are going to start claiming to be NBA fans and that KD is there favorite player. Then all of the sudden you will start seeing names like THUNDERSTRUCK86 and ImInOKCbish. Lol.
Bandwagoners are going to bandwagon.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-23-2014, 06:35 AM
Then all of the sudden you will start seeing names like THUNDERSTRUCK86 and ImInOKCbish. Lol.
Bandwagoners are going to bandwagon.

You sound butthurt. How old are you again?

Quinnsanity
01-23-2014, 06:39 AM
Even as a massive LeBron hater, no, he hasn't. Durant is closer than he's ever been, and he's certainly become a much more well-rounded player, but face it, LeBron has been sleepwalking through this season, particularly on defense. He's still a better player than Durant when it's all said and done, even if Durant is having a better season.

Bostonjorge
01-23-2014, 06:40 AM
KD winning 1 in okc will mean more then lebron winning 3 in Miami.

koreancabbage
01-23-2014, 08:32 AM
KD winning 1 in okc will mean more then lebron winning 3 in Miami.

except he won't unless Westbrook comes back from injury.

koreancabbage
01-23-2014, 08:50 AM
The Spurs are an ok team, but won't get back to the finals in the next ten years, and would have never been there last year had Westbrook been healthy. Go look up the age of the trio on the spurs big guy. Kobe had to vs the guys in their prime, not when they're ready to retire. I also fail to see the point of the Lakers seeding in this argument?

Sorry jr, but Kobe has 5 rings compared to Lebrons 2, and Kobe had to go through the the west to get his rings, which happens to be 10x harder than the pathetic east Lebrons currently in.


I love how you still have to quantify your opinions as fact. i'll use your logic:

Are you dumb? Kobe had to take out a prime Spurs team just to get a shot at the east in the finals. The Spurs team Kobe and co smacked up were better than any team lebron has faced in his career. Is it Kobe's fault he had to kick the magic and celtics *** because the Vegas favorites Cavs( led by lebron lol irony) failed to make it there? Ha!

Are you dumb? Again, it wasn't Kobe and Co, it was Shaq and Co. Kobe played the robin to Shaq. Shaq was the MAIN reason why they beat those Spurs team. so no, i'm not going to give credit to Kobe as the main reason why those Laker teams beat SA and won championships.

3 rings playing sidekick to one of the dominant centers of all time and one of the GREATEST coach in Phil - is going to help your resume. Are you living in a world where Kobe won championships without the most dominant big men in the league. Robert Horry and Fisher has ringzzz - played on the same team as Kobe, saving his *** lots of time.

going through the west or going through the East - isn't it all the same in the end - its all about being the main guy winning rings, some are more difficult than others so you're blaming Lebron because he's in the East. Well look during the last 2 regular seasons, Miami OWNs the West - so don't bring up this crap Miami couldn't do it in the West either. you have no proof otherwise.

but pretty much you repeat yourself more than anyone i know on PSD lol

3RDASYSTEM
01-23-2014, 10:13 AM
What does scoing championships mean? Where is Carmelo now? Is he proven? Being proven and being a great player is two different things, LeBron was the best player before he joined Miami, no question, but he wasn't proven at that time, he was being mentally "eaten" by celtics all the time. By proven I mean, Durant didn't really prove himself in the playoffs. In the finals he couldn't handle LeBron, its like he collapsed under pressure, no matter the stats he put. westbrook for me was the leader on that team in the finals, he was mentally prepared. Last year without westbrook Durant once again underperformed in the playoffs and lost in 2nd round. LeBron had his own dark playoff history, but in the end he proved he is a champion. LeBron and Durant are pretty even statistically, if they meet in the finals again and Durant wins, thats where you could say he is better than Bron, considering their teams are both good. I believe Westbrook has that "Bron" factor on OKC and without him Durant won't go any deep in the playoffs, he can score 40+ all he wants, but he won't go deep.

being proven is just that, scoring titles or nba titles don't make a player proven, they game do on the hardwood...so both are proven and ....I mentioned scoring titles to show off his individual prowess, the rings are a team/management accomplishment, nothing of a individual like scoring/assists/rebound/steals titles

or do you not understand that basic form of knowledge since you don't play?

xxplayerxx23
01-23-2014, 11:49 AM
Durant has played better this season in the playoffs give me Lebron over durant. Enough with this Kobe ****. He has 3 rings partly cuz of shaq. Kobe was not the man. Kobe was the man for the last two but also had a prime gasol and Bynum who was improving

beliges
01-23-2014, 01:48 PM
Durant has played better this season in the playoffs give me Lebron over durant. Enough with this Kobe ****. He has 3 rings partly cuz of shaq. Kobe was not the man. Kobe was the man for the last two but also had a prime gasol and Bynum who was improving

LOL. Lebron has two rings cuz of bosh, wade and allen. What's your point? All the greats had help
You using Shaq as a way to discredit kobe and praise lebron is ironic as Lebron wasn't able to get it done without superstar help. Let's judge lebron the same way we did kobe and let's see if he can win without wade/bosh.

BrandoCommando
01-23-2014, 02:24 PM
No, KD has not surpassed LeBron. And I don't think he will.

benny01
01-23-2014, 02:38 PM
right now moment in time Jan. 23 12:40 P.M. KD is better. Surpassed no. Three months from now?

Storch
01-23-2014, 03:10 PM
but also had a prime gasol and Bynum who was improving

:laugh2: That's hilarious

Tony_Starks
01-23-2014, 03:12 PM
LOL. Lebron has two rings cuz of bosh, wade and allen. What's your point? All the greats had help
You using Shaq as a way to discredit kobe and praise lebron is ironic as Lebron wasn't able to get it done without superstar help. Let's judge lebron the same way we did kobe and let's see if he can win without wade/bosh.

Man that's why I don't even waste time with the "how many of Kobe's rings actually count" hogwash anymore. It's like the troll pick up line.....

Tony_Starks
01-23-2014, 03:16 PM
:laugh2: That's hilarious

I know right. I mean Bynum was ballin out, playing 82 games at a allstar level!!!!

Delrayhc
01-23-2014, 03:23 PM
KD winning 1 in okc will mean more then lebron winning 3 in Miami.

To who? You and your bff illusionist?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-23-2014, 03:26 PM
lol this thread went downhill fast

Bynum was a non factor in the last two lakers championship's run.

by value - kobe, pau, lamar, fisher, ariza/artest....bynum

BklynKnicks3
01-23-2014, 04:07 PM
Durant easily is the best player in the nba this year

hotdalton18
01-23-2014, 04:11 PM
Stop playing , this thread is a joke

Chronz
01-23-2014, 04:12 PM
LOL. Lebron has two rings cuz of bosh, wade and allen. What's your point? All the greats had help
You using Shaq as a way to discredit kobe and praise lebron is ironic as Lebron wasn't able to get it done without superstar help. Let's judge lebron the same way we did kobe and let's see if he can win without wade/bosh.
But Bron was without question the MAIN guy when he won with a hobbled Wade/Bosh. I mean, its not like he was able to score 16PPG shoot below 40% in the Finals and win ala Kobe in 2000, his team needed more from him.

Chronz
01-23-2014, 04:13 PM
Man that's why I don't even waste time with the "how many of Kobe's rings actually count" hogwash anymore. It's like the troll pick up line.....

They all count, they just dont all count equally.

Chronz
01-23-2014, 04:13 PM
lol this thread went downhill fast

Bynum was a non factor in the last two lakers championship's run.

by value - kobe, pau, lamar, fisher, ariza/artest....bynum

Nah, you wont find many 7ft centers as productive as Bynum was during the 2nd chip run.

Chronz
01-23-2014, 04:14 PM
All of the bron gobblers? Let's be real FC!
Such as? From the looks of it, seems you're wrong. Feel free to (FINALLY) back your opinions with facts

beliges
01-23-2014, 04:59 PM
Are you dumb? Again, it wasn't Kobe and Co, it was Shaq and Co. Kobe played the robin to Shaq. Shaq was the MAIN reason why they beat those Spurs team. so no, i'm not going to give credit to Kobe as the main reason why those Laker teams beat SA and won championships.

3 rings playing sidekick to one of the dominant centers of all time and one of the GREATEST coach in Phil - is going to help your resume. Are you living in a world where Kobe won championships without the most dominant big men in the league. Robert Horry and Fisher has ringzzz - played on the same team as Kobe, saving his *** lots of time.

going through the west or going through the East - isn't it all the same in the end - its all about being the main guy winning rings, some are more difficult than others so you're blaming Lebron because he's in the East. Well look during the last 2 regular seasons, Miami OWNs the West - so don't bring up this crap Miami couldn't do it in the West either. you have no proof otherwise.

but pretty much you repeat yourself more than anyone i know on PSD lol

Dude, what does it matter who Kobe played with? Do we discredit MJs rings because of his stacked Bulls teams? Do we discredit Magic for playing on probably the most talented team ever in the NBA? So are you saying Lebron does not have 2 rings because he had to leave Cleavland and team up with Wade, Bosh and now Ray Allen to win titles?

I can tell you this, Kobe won with AND without Shaq. Lets see if Lebron can win without Wade/Bosh. It makes no sense to pick and choose whose titles you discredit for playing with great players. Every single multiple champion played with spectacular players. Some (like Kobe, MJ and Magic) were able to do it time and time again while others have not been.

Goose17
01-23-2014, 05:30 PM
LOL what? A nice run and suddenly he's better than Lebron? Durant isn't even within spitting distance of Lebron. Lebron manhandled him in the playoffs and if the season ended right now, yeah, Durant would be MVP but that doesn't make him better.

Why do people give Durant a break but hate on Lebron constantly?

When Lebron was being compared to Kobe and MJ it was all "oh he hasn't done anything", then he won a few MVPs and it was "he's not as good, he doesn't have any rings".

Durant? He's had none of that hate, none of that criticism, he's not put under the microscope nearly as much. Has Durant won an MVP? No. Has Durant won a championship? No. So why aren't people riding him like they did Lebron? Because your haters, jealous and bitter haters. For clarity; I'm not saying winning chips makes you better, I hate that argument, I'm simply saying why do the same people that judged Lebron based on these arbitrary goals but not Durant? Why are you not holding Durant to the same standards?


Durant is playing better right this moment, that doesn't make him the better player. Could he become the better player? Sure. Is he? LOL! ...no.

IKnowHoops
01-23-2014, 05:34 PM
Ive had KD on my all-time starting 5 for the last year. He and Bron are once in a lifetime players. I don't know that he will ever be as impactful as Bron is, but one day he will be better than Bron because he is younger.

TheIlladelph16
01-23-2014, 05:42 PM
Well this thread has gotten... interesting to say the least. My thoughts on this:

- Durant's the MVP at this point. I don't think there's a good argument for anyone else including Lebron up until this point. People might want to curtail enthusiasm every so slightly though. Last year at this time Durant was the MVP as well, and we all know how that ended up.

- If Durant wants to be the best, then he has to knock Lebron out of that spot. It isn't just gonna be handed to him. Three finals appearances, 2 championships and 2 finals MVP's have earned Lebron more than two-three months of spectacular play from Durant before making that assumption. If he keeps up this level all season and goes on a run en route to a championship? Maybe. We can start discussing at that point who is the No. 1 guy. It is a little ironic how quickly some people are ready to anoint Durant as the top dog, but Lebron had to actually win one to get people off his back.

-Continuing that line of though, I'm curious as to how people's perception of Durant is going to change over the next couple years if he can't win one. At this point, Lebron was getting ripped pretty hard for not having won a championship, so it will be interesting to see if people start turning up the pressure a bit on him.

- People need to cool it a bit with the "not even close" comparison between Lebron and Durant. I love both of these players, and either side saying the other isn't close is flat out wrong. They are very, very close.

Longhornfan1234
01-23-2014, 05:50 PM
I'm getting sick of PSD's logic. Who cares about LeBron last two seasons? How is it relevant to this season.? THIS SEASON KD has surpassed LeBron. Keep holding onto the past, bronites.

pacofunk64
01-23-2014, 05:51 PM
No offense to any other NBA player but LeBron is ****ing bored in this talent-less NBA. He should win the title this year and quit basketball and challenge the NFL.

Goose17
01-23-2014, 05:54 PM
I'm getting sick of PSD's logic. Who cares about LeBron last two seasons? How is it relevant to this season.? THIS SEASON KD has surpassed LeBron. Keep holding onto the past, bronites.

How has he surpassed Lebron? He's had three months of playing better, does that make him the better player? No.

I bet you were one of the idiots criticizing Lebron for not having a ring, but now KD is king because he's had a nice stretch during the regular season? LMAO

TheIlladelph16
01-23-2014, 05:58 PM
I'm getting sick of PSD's logic. Who cares about LeBron last two seasons? How is it relevant to this season.? THIS SEASON KD has surpassed LeBron. Keep holding onto the past, bronites.

I don't think you'll find many people arguing that Durant isn't having the better season. It just takes more than a 2-3 month stretch to pass a player in the rankings.

TheIlladelph16
01-23-2014, 05:59 PM
No offense to any other NBA player but LeBron is ****ing bored in this talent-less NBA. He should win the title this year and quit basketball and challenge the NFL.

I want to see Lebron running full speed from behind the line and just leaping over everyone to block field goals. I'd also love to see some of the CBs in the NFL try to cover him out of the TE spot. It would be hilarious.

numba1CHANGsta
01-23-2014, 06:28 PM
LeBron will turn 30 by the end of the year, he's already peaked (peaked between 07-13) He is now on the downside of his peak, which isn't bad, he should still be elite for the next 3-4 years but not like the numbers he used to post. It's Durant's time, he's 25, it's the age where players usually start to peak. If he was on a bad team, we wouldn't make this such a big deal or discuss him as an MVP, but him being on a great team helps his case that he is def the MVP this year.

holditdown
01-23-2014, 11:21 PM
No offense to any other NBA player but LeBron is ****ing bored in this talent-less NBA. He should win the title this year and quit basketball and challenge the NFL.

The NBA has the best athletes of all the the major sports leagues. So I don't know what you're talking about.

holditdown
01-23-2014, 11:39 PM
LeBron James doesn't dunk out of the half court set much anymore. Back in 2008-2010 his final years with the Cavs that was a huge part of his game.

Right now I just don't see the burst like he used to have.

DR_1
01-23-2014, 11:42 PM
If he is able to win the finals this year then I'd put him over LeBron

LA_Raiders
01-23-2014, 11:54 PM
Yes, he just comes short in the POffs; like Leflop did.

SugeKnight
01-23-2014, 11:59 PM
Woah, slow down there buddy

3RDASYSTEM
01-24-2014, 12:10 AM
Dude, what does it matter who Kobe played with? Do we discredit MJs rings because of his stacked Bulls teams? Do we discredit Magic for playing on probably the most talented team ever in the NBA? So are you saying Lebron does not have 2 rings because he had to leave Cleavland and team up with Wade, Bosh and now Ray Allen to win titles?

I can tell you this, Kobe won with AND without Shaq. Lets see if Lebron can win without Wade/Bosh. It makes no sense to pick and choose whose titles you discredit for playing with great players. Every single multiple champion played with spectacular players. Some (like Kobe, MJ and Magic) were able to do it time and time again while others have not been.

This is what I mean by individual game/impact, BRON at least took the CAVS from bottom feeders to FINALS trip against a quasi dynasty in 07', then went and teamed up with WADE/BOSH and is going for 4 straight FINALS not done since the 80's, bean Bryant on the other hand without SHAQ and prePAU had his team in the bottom playoff seeds and blowing 3-1 leads and quitting in the playoffs on top of that, in game 7

we all understand you need stacked teams to compete and win a ship, but bean was a sidekick/backupguard and he will always be that, just turned starter, BRON proved he can carry a lesser talented team further and that makes him better since we all seen them win with stacked teams

if bean had taken those 05-07' teams to no1 and 2 seeds then it would be a different convo, but he showed he wasn't on BRON's level impact wise, not even close really if you think about it

3RDASYSTEM
01-24-2014, 12:17 AM
All of the bron gobblers? Let's be real FC!

Its just hard for me to judge a backup player vs a franchise player, the franchise player being BRON

jerellh528
01-24-2014, 12:51 AM
This is what I mean by individual game/impact, BRON at least took the CAVS from bottom feeders to FINALS trip against a quasi dynasty in 07', then went and teamed up with WADE/BOSH and is going for 4 straight FINALS not done since the 80's, bean Bryant on the other hand without SHAQ and prePAU had his team in the bottom playoff seeds and blowing 3-1 leads and quitting in the playoffs on top of that, in game 7

we all understand you need stacked teams to compete and win a ship, but bean was a sidekick/backupguard and he will always be that, just turned starter, BRON proved he can carry a lesser talented team further and that makes him better since we all seen them win with stacked teams

if bean had taken those 05-07' teams to no1 and 2 seeds then it would be a different convo, but he showed he wasn't on BRON's level impact wise, not even close really if you think about it

Lol you're ridiculous. Go look up Kobe's "bottom feeder" team, it's a miracle they even sniffed the playoffs, that was all Kobe. And iverson led scrubs to the finals in a weak east too, don't see your point there.

LOOTERX9
01-24-2014, 04:20 AM
I hope durant passes lebron as top player in nba cause he is more fun/entertaining to watch on a nightly basis. Lebron is boring at times cause he floats through games just passing and not being aggressive shooting the ball. Lbj gets the job done but his style of play is boring to watch most the game. Durants gunner ,mega scoring style is more entertaining, similar to kobe and jordan.

IKnowHoops
01-24-2014, 04:53 AM
Lol you're ridiculous. Go look up Kobe's "bottom feeder" team, it's a miracle they even sniffed the playoffs, that was all Kobe. And iverson led scrubs to the finals in a weak east too, don't see your point there.

Well its a fact that the year after Lebron left, they were the worst team in the league without him. With him 60 plus wins. Kobe has done nothing close to that. Oh yeah, watch how clever I'm about to be, you don't know hoops man.

Drummond#1
01-24-2014, 06:17 AM
From a value perspective you could make the argument that CP3 is 2 and bronbron is 2b after watching how inconsistent the clippers are since Paul went down with his injury. They are 1-3 vs +.500 teams.

Drummond#1
01-24-2014, 06:20 AM
Honestly Lebron might come in fourth in MVP votes behind KD, CP3 and George.

KD- is better
CP3- as good
George- more wins

PatsSoxKnicks
01-24-2014, 06:30 AM
I hope durant passes lebron as top player in nba cause he is more fun/entertaining to watch on a nightly basis. Lebron is boring at times cause he floats through games just passing and not being aggressive shooting the ball. Lbj gets the job done but his style of play is boring to watch most the game. Durants gunner ,mega scoring style is more entertaining, similar to kobe and jordan.

That's because you don't appreciate the finer aspects of basketball. There's more to basketball than chucking it up at the hoop 30 times a game with turnaround fadeaways that only go in less than half the time. How about screen setting? Most unheralded aspect of basketball and yet important, eventually to be quantified.

Not that Durant does that and you're way off in calling Durant a gunner- because he's not at all. Jordan had that mentality too but he wasn't really a gunner either because he was simply too good to have porous efficiency despite the many shots he took. Kobe on the other hand was. And thats why so many Kobephiles overrate his game- they think those 2 points on a fadeaway jumper that he misses half the time means more than the 2 points that Lebron would get on a dunk that he never misses. It looks better so it must be better. At least thats what the Kobephiles would have you believe.

3RDASYSTEM
01-24-2014, 09:41 AM
Lol you're ridiculous. Go look up Kobe's "bottom feeder" team, it's a miracle they even sniffed the playoffs, that was all Kobe. And iverson led scrubs to the finals in a weak east too, don't see your point there.

Ridiculous by saying what actually happened? it was a miracle IVERSON even had that squad in Semi's let alone FINALS, and bean couldn't do nothing with scrubs but cry a river while BRON/IVERSON led scrubs to FINALS trip....I acknowledged bean had a scrub squad and he '''led/carried them as lone guy'' to 8th or 7th seeds, while BRON did the opposite, 1st seeds with scrubs, so did IVERSON.... mckie and snow are not better than brown/parker/odom, not even close and brown and parker are very avg in my bball book

as many asanine statements you have made on here i'm in tears over here on how you can say anybody is 'ridiculous', go back and read all you posts, now that is some ridiculous ****

the point was bean is not in the same league as BRON on game/impact from individual standpoint, it's the reason I bring up the bottom feeder view, because they both had those type of teams and BRON had no1 seeds and NBA MVP's while bean had no 8 seeds and scoring titles, plus BRON led that scrub team to FINALS trip while bean was too busy blowing 3-1 series leads with his scrub team, he quit in the playoffs on his team, the definition of a true 5x winner

bean had ODOM
IVERSON had snow or mckie, you pick one
BRON had MO WILL

now you tell me who had the weaker sidekick?
and plus the WEST wasn't that strong from 08-10 during that 3 FINALS trip run, 08' was deep but deep doesn't always mean the strongest or best, just a bunch of good teams so I don't get your 'weak conference' standpoint

from RUSSELL to BIRD/MAGIC to JORDAN to SHAQ's squads all played against weaker teams since they had strongest teams plus the refs in back pocket, STERN that is

3RDASYSTEM
01-24-2014, 10:02 AM
That's because you don't appreciate the finer aspects of basketball. There's more to basketball than chucking it up at the hoop 30 times a game with turnaround fadeaways that only go in less than half the time. How about screen setting? Most unheralded aspect of basketball and yet important, eventually to be quantified.

Not that Durant does that and you're way off in calling Durant a gunner- because he's not at all. Jordan had that mentality too but he wasn't really a gunner either because he was simply too good to have porous efficiency despite the many shots he took. Kobe on the other hand was. And thats why so many Kobephiles overrate his game- they think those 2 points on a fadeaway jumper that he misses half the time means more than the 2 points that Lebron would get on a dunk that he never misses. It looks better so it must be better. At least thats what the Kobephiles would have you believe.

You must didn't watch 'come fly with me' JORDAN version, the media and others use to say he wouldn't win a ring winning scoring titles

they labeled him a ballhog, yeah the same 'efficient' JORDAN, a ballhog who avg 44ppg against that dynasty CELTICS squad in 86', he was labeled a ballhog, true story

JORDAN was the epitome of a gunner, go ask PIPPEN who said JORDAN would make sure he got his shots/points each game

kobephiles overrate him because he mimmicks JORDAN and has 5 rings playing in la market, imagine if the real JORDAN played in la/ny market, unreal

beliges
01-24-2014, 02:27 PM
Dude, what does it matter who Kobe played with? Do we discredit MJs rings because of his stacked Bulls teams? Do we discredit Magic for playing on probably the most talented team ever in the NBA? So are you saying Lebron does not have 2 rings because he had to leave Cleavland and team up with Wade, Bosh and now Ray Allen to win titles?

I can tell you this, Kobe won with AND without Shaq. Lets see if Lebron can win without Wade/Bosh. It makes no sense to pick and choose whose titles you discredit for playing with great players. Every single multiple champion played with spectacular players. Some (like Kobe, MJ and Magic) were able to do it time and time again while others have not been.

This is what I mean by individual game/impact, BRON at least took the CAVS from bottom feeders to FINALS trip against a quasi dynasty in 07', then went and teamed up with WADE/BOSH and is going for 4 straight FINALS not done since the 80's, bean Bryant on the other hand without SHAQ and prePAU had his team in the bottom playoff seeds and blowing 3-1 leads and quitting in the playoffs on top of that, in game 7

we all understand you need stacked teams to compete and win a ship, but bean was a sidekick/backupguard and he will always be that, just turned starter, BRON proved he can carry a lesser talented team further and that makes him better since we all seen them win with stacked teams

if bean had taken those 05-07' teams to no1 and 2 seeds then it would be a different convo, but he showed he wasn't on BRON's level impact wise, not even close really if you think about it

When lebron took the cavs to the finals it was in arguably the weakest conference in.nba history. Please put things in perspective before posting. Lebron now has as much talent than kobe ever did. He has no excuse not to win as much ad kobe. Time will tell if he can do that.

nickdymez
01-24-2014, 02:47 PM
Well its a fact that the year after Lebron left, they were the worst team in the league without him. With him 60 plus wins. Kobe has done nothing close to that. Oh yeah, watch how clever I'm about to be, you don't know hoops man.

The Cavs had a whole new starting lineup and new coach.

BlinkManJan02
01-24-2014, 03:03 PM
I'm not much of a fan of lebron but championships are better than numbers. lebron has earned a haters respect (meeeeeeee)

dwoyo
01-24-2014, 03:59 PM
Don't get me wrong, KD is one of the greatest scorers and players to ever step on a court in my opinion...

But I think we gotta calm down here a little bit. With about the same minutes, games played, and average of FGA, LeBron still has a higher FG%, while averaging more rebounds and assists per game. James is only 1.5 PPG away from Durant. And these stats are just for this season, not even mentioning the past seasons.

Not to mention the fact that LeBron James is playing in a Heat team with options and Durant is on an OKC team where, when Westbrook is gone, is dependent on him taking the scoring load. I may have a bit of a homer opinion here, but nevertheless I still think Durant needs to do more than string a couple of 40 or 50 point games before people can talk about him surpassing LeBron

PatsSoxKnicks
01-24-2014, 05:32 PM
You must didn't watch 'come fly with me' JORDAN version, the media and others use to say he wouldn't win a ring winning scoring titles

they labeled him a ballhog, yeah the same 'efficient' JORDAN, a ballhog who avg 44ppg against that dynasty CELTICS squad in 86', he was labeled a ballhog, true story

JORDAN was the epitome of a gunner, go ask PIPPEN who said JORDAN would make sure he got his shots/points each game

kobephiles overrate him because he mimmicks JORDAN and has 5 rings playing in la market, imagine if the real JORDAN played in la/ny market, unreal

Nope, doesn't hold up. Again- the definition of a gunner is someone who shoots too much with a porous efficiency. Maybe Jordan had the first part of the equation down- shooting too much but his efficiency was never really that poor. In fact, in a number of his so called gunner years, he had TS%'s up over 60%. Maybe he was shooting a ton but with his efficiency as great as it was, he probably could've shot more and not really hurt his team.

I'm sure he was called a gunner and I'm sure the media would've said they can't win with him shooting that much but the fact is they were wrong on both accounts because again, his efficiency was simply too good to be a gunner. Gunner is basically synonymous with chucker- and you need to be shooting a ton with poor efficiency to be in that category. Technically, even Kobe has a hard time fitting in that category since while his efficiency was never excellent, he was never below league average in terms of efficiency either.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-24-2014, 05:36 PM
When lebron took the cavs to the finals it was in arguably the weakest conference in.nba history. Please put things in perspective before posting. Lebron now has as much talent than kobe ever did. He has no excuse not to win as much ad kobe. Time will tell if he can do that.

No, wrong. Prime Shaq was by far WAY better than current Wade. It's not even close. Prime Shaq was a beast and actually the #1 option on that team. Something Kobe wasn't on those 00-02 teams and something Lebron is right now.

Kobe has 3 titles as a #2 option while both Lebron and Kobe have 2 titles as the #1 option. If Lebron wins another title as the #1 option this year, he'll pass Kobe in that regard.

b@llhog24
01-24-2014, 06:34 PM
Durant easily is the best player in the nba this year

Uh...

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?819301-Kevin-Durant-Melo-westbrook
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?816719-Kevin-Durant-fg-will-drop-without-westbrook


LeBron James doesn't dunk out of the half court set much anymore. Back in 2008-2010 his final years with the Cavs that was a huge part of his game.

Right now I just don't see the burst like he used to have.

He's not as athletic anymore. Doesn't make him any less of a player. (well at least so far.)

johnnybukbuk
01-24-2014, 09:52 PM
numbers never lie...Durant in my eyes is the best player in the league right now...I would take him over LeBron any day....LeBron in Cleveland wasn't accomplishing as much as he is now in Miami, he has 2 sidekicks in Wade and Bosh....Durant with or without Westbrook is gonna give you 25 a game easily

Swashcuff
01-24-2014, 10:04 PM
Durant easily is the best player in the nba this year

Bet money you change your tune after Melo's monster performance tonight

eDush
01-24-2014, 10:37 PM
Don't get me wrong, KD is one of the greatest scorers and players to ever step on a court in my opinion...

But I think we gotta calm down here a little bit. With about the same minutes, games played, and average of FGA, LeBron still has a higher FG%, while averaging more rebounds and assists per game. James is only 1.5 PPG away from Durant. And these stats are just for this season, not even mentioning the past seasons.

Not to mention the fact that LeBron James is playing in a Heat team with options and Durant is on an OKC team where, when Westbrook is gone, is dependent on him taking the scoring load. I may have a bit of a homer opinion here, but nevertheless I still think Durant needs to do more than string a couple of 40 or 50 point games before people can talk about him surpassing LeBron

Agreed and he needs to win a ring before we even bringing up a discussion like that. We know he doesn't make his teammates better, he just make it easier on his teammates but taking the pressure away from them. Big difference if you want to be the

G.O.A.T!

Raps18-19 Champ
01-24-2014, 10:41 PM
The Cavs had a whole new starting lineup and new coach.

Remember that time you were talking trash about Lebron for not making the finals in Cleveland (which you still hold to this day) but when Mike Brown went to the Lakers, you were quoted paraphrasing said "It is impossible to win the finals with Mike Brown as your coach".

Raps18-19 Champ
01-24-2014, 10:44 PM
Bet money you change your tune after Melo's monster performance tonight

I completely agree. BklynKnicks3 is Jekyll and Hyde when it comes to Carmelo.

Bostonjorge
01-24-2014, 11:29 PM
Lebron titles are not impressive at all. Any top 50 player of all time can join 2 players in the top 10 in the whole league in there era and win.

If Durant never wins then it's only his fault since lebron has shown a road to a title that any super star player can accomplish.

mngopher35
01-24-2014, 11:38 PM
Lebron titles are not impressive at all. Any top 50 player of all time can join 2 players in the top 10 in the whole league in there era and win.

If Durant never wins then it's only his fault since lebron has shown a road to a title that any super star player can accomplish.

I would think back the past couple of years to how Wade and Bosh played in the playoffs (a lot due to injury). Do you remember a certain player having an amazing game 6 vs. Boston or great game 7 of the finals just last year? I think he has had a couple of the great playoff performances in history and a lot of that came when his team had their backs against the wall. That normally isn't the sign of a non-impressive easy road to the championship. I really would like the list of players who could also win with this cast since any superstar player can...

koreancabbage
01-25-2014, 01:11 AM
Lebron titles are not impressive at all. Any top 50 player of all time can join 2 players in the top 10 in the whole league in there era and win.

If Durant never wins then it's only his fault since lebron has shown a road to a title that any super star player can accomplish.

i think anyone person can see that its easier to win multiple titles with better talent.

Now, Dan Gilbert and his upper management were one of the worst out there and its being proven to this day with the fiasco over in Cleveland. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that it would be a great idea for Lebron to wait it out for Cleveland's management to get their act together to bring talent around Lebron.

What if Lebron didn't leave and didn't win a championship to this day. Would he be considered one of the best who has played this game, hands down.... NO. Ya'll be sympathizing and nailing him for being stupid for waiting to begin with.

Goose17
01-25-2014, 04:25 PM
What if Lebron didn't leave and didn't win a championship to this day. Would he be considered one of the best who has played this game, hands down.... NO. Ya'll be sympathizing and nailing him for being stupid for waiting to begin with.

Interesting opinion.

Bostonjorge
01-25-2014, 08:25 PM
I would think back the past couple of years to how Wade and Bosh played in the playoffs (a lot due to injury). Do you remember a certain player having an amazing game 6 vs. Boston or great game 7 of the finals just last year? I think he has had a couple of the great playoff performances in history and a lot of that came when his team had their backs against the wall. That normally isn't the sign of a non-impressive easy road to the championship. I really would like the list of players who could also win with this cast since any superstar player can...

Let's look at the last championship team Dallas. Dallas beat the defending champs lakers, okc and Miami. Dirk played amazingly in those finals against 3 players who were ranked above him in the player rankings. Wade was only behind kobe and Lebron that year.

Miami last year beat bucks led by Jennings and bulls led by Nate Robinson. The pacers talent wise were far less then a lot of teams but were balling last year with great team play. Then a old spurs team who had choked the title way.

Not all roads to title are equal.

Bostonjorge
01-25-2014, 08:34 PM
i think anyone person can see that its easier to win multiple titles with better talent.

Now, Dan Gilbert and his upper management were one of the worst out there and its being proven to this day with the fiasco over in Cleveland. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that it would be a great idea for Lebron to wait it out for Cleveland's management to get their act together to bring talent around Lebron.

What if Lebron didn't leave and didn't win a championship to this day. Would he be considered one of the best who has played this game, hands down.... NO. Ya'll be sympathizing and nailing him for being stupid for waiting to begin with.

Lebron leaving was the right choice his 2 titles prove it. If lebron had won 1 in Cleveland even if wade and bosh had went to Cleveland that would of meant so much more. Lebron leaving to win instead of players going to him to win is a big difference.

Durant winning 1 in okc will give him that edge over lebron as the best.

mngopher35
01-25-2014, 08:41 PM
Let's look at the last championship team Dallas. Dallas beat the defending champs lakers, okc and Miami. Dirk played amazingly in those finals against 3 players who were ranked above him in the player rankings. Wade was only behind kobe and Lebron that year.

Miami last year beat bucks led by Jennings and bulls led by Nate Robinson. The pacers talent wise were far less then a lot of teams but were balling last year with great team play. Then a old spurs team who had choked the title way.

Not all roads to title are equal.

I agree with the bold. It is obvious you have some sort of bias in this specific matter so I'll leave it at that. You are just trying to lessen that spurs team and ignore the actual play of Wade and Bosh.

It is common to have a big/lucky play go their way to win a title, it happened to the lakers before on last second shot against the spurs. That didn't mean we had to discredit the spurs/lakers then right? Also explain why being old is bad instead of being experience which would be good (even when your still playing at an extremely high level)?

3RDASYSTEM
01-26-2014, 10:45 AM
When lebron took the cavs to the finals it was in arguably the weakest conference in.nba history. Please put things in perspective before posting. Lebron now has as much talent than kobe ever did. He has no excuse not to win as much ad kobe. Time will tell if he can do that.

That weakest conference **** is as played out as RUSSELL playing with 8 nba teams to win 11 rings in 13yrs, the same era where WILT has his 'weaker' teams losing 5x in game 7 of FINALS

JORDAN second 3peat era was watered the **** down with expansion teams and STERN sucking his dick to appeal to the masses, JORDAN couldn't be touched literally after earning first ring

SHAQ lakers dynasty was weak also because the KINGS/SPURS were the only contenders since the east was so damn weak, plus lakers were gift wrapped victories

bean/pau lakers from 08-10 was weak also, injuries from C's destroyed what could have been a possible 4peat

now BRON with HEAT are playing in arguably the weakest conference ever according to you

see the ******** nba pattern? every era was weak

including the 80's where MAGIC/BIRD had the most stacked teams ever and the team that was stacked just like them won the other title in like 83', the SIXERS

every era was weak if you really put things into..................''''''''''''perspective before posting'''''''''''''''''''

and you just further cemented my statement when I said BRON has way bigger impact on team, when they were not playing with stacked teams BRON led his team to FINALS while bean Bryant was getting 7th and 8th seeds

now that BRON has ship caliber talent he has been to 3 FINALS in 3yrs going for 4 in a row
bean Bryant in 8yrs went to FINALS 4x with SHAQ, it took'em 4yrs to get there so they went 4x in last 5yrs as mates

see the difference in impact?

had BRON played with SHAQ rookie year im sure they would have sniffed a finals spot all 8yrs, they probably wouldn't have won them all but I think they would have been there all 8 years

3RDASYSTEM
01-26-2014, 10:59 AM
Nope, doesn't hold up. Again- the definition of a gunner is someone who shoots too much with a porous efficiency. Maybe Jordan had the first part of the equation down- shooting too much but his efficiency was never really that poor. In fact, in a number of his so called gunner years, he had TS%'s up over 60%. Maybe he was shooting a ton but with his efficiency as great as it was, he probably could've shot more and not really hurt his team.

I'm sure he was called a gunner and I'm sure the media would've said they can't win with him shooting that much but the fact is they were wrong on both accounts because again, his efficiency was simply too good to be a gunner. Gunner is basically synonymous with chucker- and you need to be shooting a ton with poor efficiency to be in that category. Technically, even Kobe has a hard time fitting in that category since while his efficiency was never excellent, he was never below league average in terms of efficiency either.

Yes it does hold all the way up, the definition of a gunner is someone who says I am going to get my shots and points night in and out no matter what, that's how JORDAN was

once again efficiency has nothing to do with this unless you keep bringing it up, TS means nothing so cut that ******** out when speaking about bball with me

he was shooting a ton=ballhog

of course the media was wrong on both accounts, just like they are about how they got you and others brainwashed to use TS/PER/other non players scientific knowledge

JORDAN was just a ballhog who shot 50pct from the field, no different than a ballhog who shoots 43pct, they are both ballhogs

just like a player with 5 rings is the same with the other player with 5 rings

its like saying who was a more efficient rebounder, UNSELD or B WALLACE or RODMAN or LOVE or HOWARD or RUSSELL or WILT? the bottom line is they are all top notch rebounders

JORDAN was a top notch ballhog who shot 50pct and not 43 or 45pct, big ****ing deal


Its basic sports knowledge to ride out with the ballhog who shoots 50pct over the ballhog who shoots 43-45pct, that's basic math right there of a 5pct increase, which means more buckets by 1 or 2 or the other gunner taking more shots with same makes

say you make 20/40 attempts equal 50pct
say I shoot 20/45 which is under 50pct

that's what you are making a big deal out of, missing 5 more shots when we are both ballhogs shooting 40 plus times
once a ballhog always a ballhog, he just has 6 rings now

have you ever played ball? if not go to the park/gym and play and tell your mates you will shoot every single time down and I guarantee you if you make/create every single shot/point that they will let you to continue to do it for most part and call you a ballhog that makes it happen, now imagine what happens if you do the complete opposite or under 50pct of it? it's no different than in nba they just get paid major money to do it

efficiency comes down to players around you and how much of a load you have to carry

JORDAN avg 44ppg in 86' playoffs, you mean to tell me he wasn't gunning/ballhogging at a nice efficient rate? don't kid yourself of course he was

ROCKETS ran the entire offense thru DREAM in that repeat run so he was the primary scorer/creator which means his hands were always on the ball, he was a ballhog mvp over that repeat run

a ballhog can make the best of plays, they can get you involved at highest level or completely take over a game or shoot you out of game, pick your ballhog poison

NYKNYGNYY
01-26-2014, 11:07 AM
Lol no ... Lebron is just dominating .... I HATE lebron n love Durant... But he's just not on the same level ... It's lebron
Then guys like Durant co3 ect

lol, please
01-26-2014, 06:22 PM
KD: 30.9 ppg/ 7.8/ 5.1 apg/ .639 TS%

'Bron: 26.2 ppg/ 6.7 rpg/ 6.5 apg/ .661 TS%


According to Numbers Never Lie... KD is giving up less 3 less points per 100 possessions than 'Bron as a primary defender. KD is also 3rd among all small forwards on defense behind Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.


Will PSD finally crown KD as the best player in the game? Numbers don't lie.I've never met anyone who would take LeBron over KD ever in my life.

Bostonjorge
01-26-2014, 07:51 PM
Kidd(twice) and Iverson took there teams to the finals in the east with less then lebron in Cleveland.

Now in Miami the gap of talent around him compared to the second best team is the biggest in history. I'm not saying Miami is the best team ever but it's easy to see it's not a even playing field.

Lenron needs the most help to win and he still struggles. Lebron is not a leader and needs to be on a team that needs no leader to win.

tredigs
01-26-2014, 08:02 PM
Kidd(twice) and Iverson took there teams to the finals in the east with less then lebron in Cleveland.

Now in Miami the gap of talent around him compared to the second best team is the biggest in history. I'm not saying Miami is the best team ever but it's easy to see it's not a even playing field.

Lenron needs the most help to win and he still struggles. Lebron is not a leader and needs to be on a team that needs no leader to win.
I'll take Hibbert/Stephenson/West/Hill/Granger/Scola over the Heat outside of Lebron this season, actually. Pretty ridiculous statement given how poorly LBJ's cast played in the playoffs last season. They're probably a 40 win team without him (if they were in the West, at least. Maybe 45 given their conference).

But then, most of your comments are ridiculous.

Bostonjorge
01-26-2014, 08:35 PM
I'll take Hibbert/Stephenson/West/Hill/Granger/Scola over the Heat outside of Lebron this season, actually. Pretty ridiculous statement given how poorly LBJ's cast played in the playoffs last season. They're probably a 40 win team without him (if they were in the West, at least. Maybe 45 given their conference).

But then, most of your comments are ridiculous.

Pacers are winning with team play not overwhelming talent big difference. Pacers losing to Miami 3 years in a row in the playoffs also is what's fueling them. Pacers are not quitting the way Lebron did when he played Boston.

U take lebron out of Miami and they are third in the east this year( wade healthy all year). After taking lebron out what east team has better players then Miami. Bosh scores 30 when lebron or wade are out.

Durant winning 1 in okc beats James winning 3 in Miami.

ATX
01-26-2014, 09:08 PM
Pacers are winning with team play not overwhelming talent big difference. Pacers losing to Miami 3 years in a row in the playoffs also is what's fueling them. Pacers are not quitting the way Lebron did when he played Boston.

U take lebron out of Miami and they are third in the east this year( wade healthy all year). After taking lebron out what east team has better players then Miami. Bosh scores 30 when lebron or wade are out.

Durant winning 1 in okc beats James winning 3 in Miami.

What kind of a statement is this? Sounds like Illusionists logic...

Ethix11
01-26-2014, 09:37 PM
KD doesn't have the athletecism to go toe to toe with LeBron. KD also has less of a supporting cast and therefore HAS to do more to win. LeBron doesn't care about the common folk checking his stats as much as his accolades now. Yet he may even turn it up just to get another MVP this year because nobody would pass that up but there's not as much desperation as opposed to KD being better all of of sudden. Just like Wade don't care that people say he's done, they will rise to their respective levels when something is on the line.

jerellh528
01-26-2014, 09:45 PM
KD doesn't have the athletecism to go toe to toe with LeBron. KD also has less of a supporting cast and therefore HAS to do more to win. LeBron doesn't care about the common folk checking his stats as much as his accolades now. Yet he may even turn it up just to get another MVP this year because nobody would pass that up but there's not as much desperation as opposed to KD being better all of of sudden. Just like Wade don't care that people say he's done, they will rise to their respective levels when something is on the line.

James' statements the past few weeks say otherwise, including have a kd stats app on his phone.

Longhornfan1234
01-29-2014, 10:25 PM
Slim Reaper put this debate to rest. LeBron is done.

koreancabbage
01-29-2014, 10:29 PM
Slim Reaper put this debate to rest. LeBron is done.

Lebron isn't done. Durant is just playing at extreme elite level. How Lebron had played in his younger years.

but i can see why you would make a simple minded statement like you just did.

jerellh528
01-29-2014, 10:30 PM
Lebron isn't done. Durant is just playing at extreme elite level. How Lebron had played in his younger years.

but i can see why you would make a simple minded statement like you just did.

Nah lebrons never played like durant currently is. Durant is just in another level, he just needs those rings to back it up.

koreancabbage
01-29-2014, 10:32 PM
Nah lebrons never played like durant currently is. Durant is just in another level, he just needs those rings to back it up.

close enough, but yes, I would agree Durant would need rings for people to actually take him seriously. I don't know when that will happen though.

Longhornfan1234
01-29-2014, 10:33 PM
Lebron isn't done. Durant is just playing at extreme elite level. How Lebron had played in his younger years.

but i can see why you would make a simple minded statement like you just did.

LeBron is done being the best player. He's not literally done playing basketball.

Sandman
01-29-2014, 10:35 PM
Not saying Durant needs to win a title for that to happen (he might), but there isn't a lot he can do in the regular season to change that.

If you mean he can win an MVP then sure.

koreancabbage
01-29-2014, 10:40 PM
LeBron is done being the best player. He's not literally done playing basketball.

lol only if Durant can continue this over the rest of the season and a couple more. I'm not convinced Durant is the best player unless he does it over the course of the season. There are times many NBA players that have great stretches and have been the "best" basketball player during that stretch.

Tell me when the season is done and Durant is still ahead of Lebron in terms of everything you have argued about earlier.

What if Durant regresses and Lebron goes on a huge spurt in the second half of the season, I mean we haven't even played second-half-more-competitive games yet. Lots of things can happen until the end of the season.

JordansBulls
01-29-2014, 11:20 PM
Durant just showed the world who the best in the business is tonight without his 2nd option around.

koreancabbage
01-29-2014, 11:33 PM
Durant just showed the world who the best in the business is tonight without his 2nd option around.

sometimes his 2nd option can be his worst enemy lol but yes, Durant was the better player tonight.

Ezio
01-29-2014, 11:51 PM
Needs to maintain it but I can see him winning MVP if he continues this trend.

bucketss
01-30-2014, 12:11 AM
Durant just showed the world who the best in the business is tonight without his 2nd option around.

yeah but he lost with homecourt two years in a row while being the man,

Rain City
01-30-2014, 12:36 AM
the fact that someone would say KD has surpassed bron is kinda that hole short memory, flavor of the month affect that comes with the incredible streak KD is currently at. sure KD could be a favorite for MVP, but drexler and barkley won MVPs over MJ when MJ was still the clear best player in the world. voters get bored voting the same guy and want to reward a great player having a career yr. anyone who wanted to vote bron MVP right now would have plenty or reason to do so, starting his FG%, and just all around impressive play on both ends.

lets not forget bron is coming off b2b world championships and already has a handful of MVPs. you cant punish bron for playing with way more talent so he is not forced to do as much.

durant has such a long way to go to truly surpass bron. but the fact that hes 4yrs younger, i think there is a decent chance he will give him a run for his money when all is said and done.

nastynice
01-30-2014, 12:36 AM
Durant just showed the world who the best in the business is tonight without his 2nd option around.

actually lebron won this dual, 34 pts on 20 shots vs 33 pts on 24 shots. He was more efficient.

lol, jk, but one thing we gotta take into account is lebron was guarding durant the whole night, showing that dual court versatility he brings. Was durant guarding lebron? I don't know, I didn't watch the game.

Cano4prez
01-30-2014, 12:38 AM
Anyone who objectively viewed tonight's game would agree that the role players were the difference, with that said KD slightly outplayed LeBron..

is he the better player because of this? no