PDA

View Full Version : Larry Bird vs Lebron James - Greatest SF of all Time



JordansBulls
01-22-2014, 01:49 PM
Who is it at this point?

Ebbs
01-22-2014, 02:07 PM
Bron: 4 MVP'S, 2 Championships, 4 Finals appearances

Bird: 3 MVP's, 3 Championships, 5 Finals appearances.

Bron has the edge in raw numbers.

I'm leaning LeBron but he's a year or two away from clearly being better.

todu82
01-23-2014, 01:17 AM
Still Larry Bird but more than likely when he retires the answer will be Lebron.

JordansBulls
01-26-2014, 11:53 PM
How would you compare them in the finals?

NickFoles9
01-30-2014, 06:35 PM
Lebron because Bird was before my time and haven't seen him play.

JordansBulls
01-31-2014, 04:10 PM
Don't think anyone answered it, but who would you consider better in the finals? Bird was there in 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986 and Lebron in 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013

bagwell368
02-01-2014, 03:54 PM
Bron: 4 MVP'S, 2 Championships, 4 Finals appearances

Bird: 3 MVP's, 3 Championships, 5 Finals appearances.

Bron has the edge in raw numbers.

I'm leaning LeBron but he's a year or two away from clearly being better.

Who played against tougher teams Bird or LBJ? A: Bird

Who was a better shooter, passer, and rebounder? A: Bird

Who shoots more, plays better D, had no real peer in his prime? A: LBJ

lbird1986
02-03-2014, 06:17 AM
First of all, JordansBullsh... repeated the same error TWICE in different sites.

I ain't gonna get into some stupid argument with this guy/boy? but Bird also was in the Finals in 87. Kind of an obvious misprint...I mean if you know ANYTHING about NBA history, missing that TWICE kinda shows this is either a troll thread...or he really doesn't know much, if at all, about Bird outside of maybe his basic stats.

Anyways, as for the comparison, this can't be done until after this season. Most if not ALL superstars have their primes end after their 11th straight season of prime play. Some are lucky as hell and it extends to about 12 seasons, but those are typically guys who don't play above a certain amount of minutes (Malone, Magic, etc.) Jordan is the only exception in NBA history, when he inexplicably took almost 2 years off (gambling suspension?) and was able to rest his body and come back, thus interrupting his prime years and not showing us what he would've REALLY done playing straight through his career (I say 4 mvp's, 4 chamionships).

I'll be writing an article to be published soon (maybe someday?) about this, among other articles I've researched and done myself, but we'll see how that goes. Anyways, quick review and then that's it:

Through 10 straight seasons each of prime play (both were pretty much in their prime the second they were drafted, unlike some who needed a few years to get the minutes and shots, etc):

Bird has the advantage in:

MVP Shares
Championships
Finals Appearances
RPG
FG%
3PT %
FT %

Lebron has the advantage in:

MVP's
PPG
APG

Both are virtually tied in:

SPG
BPG
TPG


Defense in general, the edge goes to Lebron, although Bird is probably criminally underrated here.

I don't prescribe to the pure crapfest and nonsense that is Win Shares PER or adjusting for pace. Advanced stats should reflect what we see on the court, not the other way around. THAT'S A FACT. You don't punish a guy for playing faster or having better endurance and tenacity anymore than you would prop up a guy for playing slower and more methodical. Winning is what people are judged by, not how they went about doing it.

Given all of this, I'd say it's a fairly close comparison, but Bird played in a tougher era, and played out of position (he was actually a PF). He was criminally underrated athletically (same vert as Karl Malone, very agile for a PF, and quick feet/hands). Lebron hasn't played a single All-Time team for some years right now.

Until Lebron wins a 3rd championship even as a frontrunner, especially in the sh*tty Eastern Conference this year, I still have him behind Bird.

Longevity is frankly overrated. All the damage you're going to do as a basketball player is within the first 10-12 seasons in your prime. That's coming to an end VERY FAST for Bron, and we're already seeing it. His defense is inconsistent as best nowadays, and I won't even get into the whole PED thing, but regardless of that, all of his numbers are down, some are career lows.

Again, show me a 3rd championship and THEN we'll talk.

Otherwise this is Bird...comfortably enough.

I don't see him winning another MVP this year, so he'll probably match or SLIGHTLY exceed Bird in MVP shares through 11 seasons, although you have to realize Bird missed an ENTIRE season in 89 whereas Lebron has missed none, so that's even skewed too.

Bron's ridiculously good though. Which is why I brought up PED's man. As an ex-personal trainer, saying the word "beast" doesn't do ***** for me. Cardio sports don't physically allow you to tack on so much pure muscle without ATLEAST the addition of some fat.

Same goes for Karl Malone...

Anways, I digress...

lbird1986
02-03-2014, 06:40 AM
Lebron because Bird was before my time and haven't seen him play.

this is the ignorance that I find beyond pathetic.

Watch some tape kid! Jees...

lbird1986
02-03-2014, 07:14 AM
Don't think anyone answered it, but who would you consider better in the finals? Bird was there in 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986 and Lebron in 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013

No they did answer it kiddo.

On the other site you asked the SAME exact question. Are you THAT lonely?

And the answer still is, BIRD.

Bird:

15.3 points on .419 shooting, 15.3 rebounds, and 7.0 assists per game
27.4 points on .484 shooting, 14 rebounds, and 3.6 assists per game
23.8 points on .449 shooting, 8.8 rebounds and 5.0 assists per game.
24.0 points on .482 shooting, 9.7 rebounds and 9.5 assists per game
24.2 points on .445 shooting, 10 rebounds and 5.5 assists per game

Bron:

22.0 points on .356 shooting, 7 rebounds, and 6.8 assists per game
17.8 points on .478 shooting, 7.2 rebounds, and 6.8 assists per game
28.6 points on .472 shooting, 10.2 rebounds, and 7.4 assists per game.
25.3 points on .447 shooting, 10.9 rebounds, and 7.0 assists per game.


The only thing Bron's ever done better than Bird in an individual Finals series is scoring, and it's close - 28.6 to 27.4.

Everything else, Bird's best beats Lebron's best by a big margin. End of story. Oh....and that's with Bird playing far tougher teams as well...

Jamiecballer
02-05-2014, 04:27 PM
Lebron.

completeharry
02-09-2014, 01:51 AM
Bird is still ahead at this stage, ask this question in again in another 2 years and the answer most likely a different answer.

beliges
02-23-2014, 11:52 PM
This is very close at this point. If lebron wins another title id give the edge to him. At this point, Bird has the edge with more titles and more finals appearances.

rufo4100
03-02-2014, 09:01 AM
Obviously Bird has the edge in titles with 3 to LBJ's 2 but Lebron has not had the same competition. Bird had to go against Magic Johnson and if no Magic, them possibly 5 titles for Larry. Larry had a better situation in Boston though than Lebron did in Cleveland all those years. Difficult.

Id say Bird has the edge right now. If LBJ gets a couple more titles and pads career stats than really difficult to argue that LBJ would take over.

JordansBulls
03-06-2014, 03:14 PM
2004 - 1980 Bird
2005 - 1981 Bird
2006 - 1982 Bird
2007 - 1983 Bird
2008 - 1984 Bird
2009 - 1985 Bird
2010 - 1986 Bird
2011 - 1987 Bird
2012 - 1988 Bird
2013 - 1989 Bird
2014 - 1990 Bird

Raps08-09 Champ
03-07-2014, 07:10 PM
Did you just saying 1989 Bird was better than 2013 Lebron?

mweb08
03-11-2014, 02:58 AM
Did you just saying 1989 Bird was better than 2013 Lebron?

That has to be a joke right?

JordansBulls
03-11-2014, 02:11 PM
Did you just saying 1989 Bird was better than 2013 Lebron?

Who?

I listed the years as if they parralled so Bird as a rookie in 1980 would parallel Lebron 2004, and etc. So obviously 1989 Bird who was hurt in place of 2013 Lebron would do nothing that year. Point making is what would Bird do in place of Lebron those years, using how Bird played in his seasons those respective years? Like how many MVP's, titles, etc?

Raps08-09 Champ
03-11-2014, 09:50 PM
Oh, lol.

I thought you were trying to compare the years when they played and then said that Bird was better for each year.

Hawkeye15
03-16-2014, 01:08 AM
LeBron.

ewing
03-21-2014, 02:29 AM
LeBron.


i agree but you know what is amazing about this thread? There are 2 guys that could clear the boards and lead a fast break in the way magic did and one of them was that unathletic larry bird. my god, i've seen three guys that are fast and good enough to dictate tempo while acting as a legit big and one of them is remember has not being an athletic guy. Bron and KD aren't evolution they are just guys that are finally trying live up to the true standard.

Ebbs
03-21-2014, 04:48 AM
Oh, lol.

I thought you were trying to compare the years when they played and then said that Bird was better for each year.

So did I still not sure wtf he was doing

bagwell368
03-21-2014, 02:50 PM
I hate going for a single GOAT or GOAT's at every position. I'm more interested in a 12 man all time TEAM. I think there is room for both of them there. Durant is making a bid to be at the end of the bench. Him passing Bird or LBJ is maybe the more interesting argument over the next 8 years or so.

SLY WILLIAMS
04-05-2014, 04:51 PM
I hated Bird during his playing days but he was the 2nd best player I ever saw only following MJ.

Lebron is great but the major difference is the last 2 minutes of games and self confidence in clutch situations.

Jeffy25
04-05-2014, 11:40 PM
Doesn't Bron already have more win shares and is probably set to retire with a better career efficiency?


Plus the accolades. I'd say Bron has this.



But I was a huge Bird fan growing up, I'm from a town near French Lick. But Bird didn't play terribly long and Bron is just too elite over him. I believe Durant is a better comp for Bird, and I think Durant ends up better too.

beliges
04-13-2014, 11:35 PM
Doesn't Bron already have more win shares and is probably set to retire with a better career efficiency?


Plus the accolades. I'd say Bron has this.



But I was a huge Bird fan growing up, I'm from a town near French Lick. But Bird didn't play terribly long and Bron is just too elite over him. I believe Durant is a better comp for Bird, and I think Durant ends up better too.

Hard to put lebron over Bird without that third title. Especially considering lebron has the roster around him. And Durant isn't even in the conversation yet. Once he gets his firsts title, he can open that door.

KnicksorBust
05-05-2014, 11:04 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=birdla01&y1=1992&p2=jamesle01&y2=2014

Where is the debate?

LeBron has him beat in PER - TS% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - WS - WS/48
Bird has him beat in TRB%

LeBron has more MVPs and is miles better as a defender. I understand some people want to wait for LeBron to win his 3rd title but to me he doesn't even have to at this point.

rocketfuel
05-08-2014, 02:34 AM
I always wondered which would be the greatest small forward to pair with Jordan.... who would be the most effective... going back to the ultimate Dream Team across the ages... Lebron's a better defender but Bird is a better shooter...which skill sets are more important...


Jordan/Bird v. Jordan/Lebron.....

Raps08-09 Champ
05-08-2014, 01:27 PM
Lebron.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-08-2014, 01:29 PM
Hard to put lebron over Bird without that third title. Especially considering lebron has the roster around him. And Durant isn't even in the conversation yet. Once he gets his firsts title, he can open that door.

Bird arguably played with like 2 top 50ish players all time along with a top 10ish PG all time.

vics
05-24-2014, 07:10 AM
Lebron is better at this point than Bird, jbullsh and lbird1980.. you need to know this.. now you both know.

JordansBulls
06-13-2014, 12:38 AM
Oh, lol.

I thought you were trying to compare the years when they played and then said that Bird was better for each year.

I thought you would have known that.

bagwell368
06-11-2016, 04:05 PM
Hahahhahahha.

The C's made LJ look pretty bad early on, and now these past couple of games? LJ had that killer game 6 vs the C's, and a couple of other big games. But LJ is just too self conscious and he gets shrinkage factor way to much in the playoffs. Bird wasn't afraid of the moment. He didn't always come through, but he didn't have his gonads shrink to such as small size either.