PDA

View Full Version : Clippers Without CP3



Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 03:38 PM
Have won 6 of 7 and 5 in a row. Sure they haven't played particularly tough teams... but remember WITH CP3 those same lotto teams beat the Clippers. The only loss without CP3 was to the Spurs on the road, on a B2B when they were also.missing Redick, Bullock and Barnes to go with CP3.

This seems worth discussing considering that the general consensus was that the team is nothing without CP3 and without him the team would crash and burn. Not saying they are as good sans CP3 of course, merely saying CP3 gets far too much credit and I've been saying it 3 years. This team is much more than CP3. Do you still feel that way? Do the other players deserve more credit now?

Chronz I'd love your opinion on this in particular.

Bruno
01-18-2014, 03:41 PM
you know you're close to being a championship caliber team when your star can miss games and have it not result in a losing streak.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 03:49 PM
It means the Clips have finally become a legit championship contender instead of a team that relied HEAVILY on CP3 as they have the past few years. The only question left to answer is if the big boys come to play when it counts, PLAYOFFS.

KniCks4LiFe
01-18-2014, 03:52 PM
Right now they are on a roll b/c it's in season high intensity games being avoided. But come playoffs when a team strategizes and game plans on you for a series, you're going to need CP3. What they are doing now is utilizing their play sets w/o CP3. If CP3 were there they'd still do it not as much, but it's just that CP3 works w/ the ball and off dribble more to play make.

Also remember, JJ Reddick is back and that adds a whole dynamic that wasn't there. Instead of Dudley shooting and running off screens, it's Reddick now.

Bruno
01-18-2014, 04:02 PM
It means the Clips have finally become a legit championship contender instead of a team that relied HEAVILY on CP3 as they have the past few years. The only question left to answer is if the big boys come to play when it counts, PLAYOFFS.

the key is for them to play like this when Paul returns, right? Watching the Lakers in seasons past, they would do well with Kobe out. people stopped ball watching and were more compelled to leave their impact on the game. LAL became championships when the supporting cast behind Kobe and Gasol figured out how to play big even when Kobe and Pau were playing big as well. it seems like the Clippers supporting cast has stepped up without Paul. Reddick going down was a bigger injury to the Clippers than generally reported and I'm excited to see how the starting line up with JJ and Paul looks like after the break.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 04:26 PM
the key is for them to play like this when Paul returns, right? Watching the Lakers in seasons past, they would do well with Kobe out. people stopped ball watching and were more compelled to leave their impact on the game. LAL became championships when the supporting cast behind Kobe and Gasol figured out how to play big even when Kobe and Pau were playing big as well. it seems like the Clippers supporting cast has stepped up without Paul. Reddick going down was a bigger injury to the Clippers than generally reported and I'm excited to see how the starting line up with JJ and Paul looks like after the break.
Nah, they are simply playing to their talent level, honestly dont understand where you're coming from with the Kobe comp. Clips with Reddick+CP3 were far more explosive offensively. The only reason we struggled early was because Blake was off to a slow start on both ends and Doc was treating the opening weeks as a trial run to try different strats. The defense has recovered and Blake began playing more aggressively (this started before CP3 went down).

The only key is that the bigs show up come playoff time. Our offense has NEVER been the main problem, its been the horrific defense. That said, Ill take some defensive lapses if Blake+DJ can actually translate their regular season success into winning time.

Im confident Doc has instilled that mindset in them now.

Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 05:33 PM
Bruno Redick has the second best offensive rating in the NBA. With him in the lineup we are the best O by a landslide last I saw. That's why I got defensive when people downplayed his absence.

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 06:21 PM
Have won 6 of 7 and 5 in a row. Sure they haven't played particularly tough teams... but remember WITH CP3 those same lotto teams beat the Clippers. The only loss without CP3 was to the Spurs on the road, on a B2B when they were also.missing Redick, Bullock and Barnes to go with CP3.

This seems worth discussing considering that the general consensus was that the team is nothing without CP3 and without him the team would crash and burn. Not saying they are as good sans CP3 of course, merely saying CP3 gets far too much credit and I've been saying it 3 years. This team is much more than CP3. Do you still feel that way? Do the other players deserve more credit now?

Chronz I'd love your opinion on this in particular.

omfg clipper fans are delusional

4 wins at home and in the 7 games they have beat one playoff team at home by 2 ... a 7 seed at that

yes... lets read into this

LMFAO

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 06:26 PM
and for the record its 5 of 6 since paul has been out

Cracka2HI!
01-18-2014, 06:33 PM
I would have waited until after the Indiana game to make this thread. We'll see what we got in a couple hours.

Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 07:13 PM
Indy game means nothing. It's a "schedule loss" and won't change the point. On road where Indy is 20-1 on a B2B missing our best player. Indy on the other hand has played just twice in 7 or 8 days. Even WITH CP3 I'd expect a loss in that scenario.

Vinyl you forgot to mention that although it was just a 2 point win they went on a 23-4 run to come back from 17 down with 4 minutes left. The bad teams excuse doesn't work because as I said earlier WITH CP3 this team was.losing to lotto teams. Now they are blowing them out.

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 07:20 PM
Indy game means nothing. It's a "schedule loss" and won't change the point. On road where Indy is 20-1 on a B2B missing our best player. Indy on the other hand has played just twice in 7 or 8 days. Even WITH CP3 I'd expect a loss in that scenario.

Vinyl you forgot to mention that although it was just a 2 point win they went on a 23-4 run to come back from 17 down with 4 minutes left. The bad teams excuse doesn't work because as I said earlier WITH CP3 this team was.losing to lotto teams. Now they are blowing them out.

more jibberish... you have lost only 4 games to non-playoff teams... including one to memphis... the other 9 losses are to current playoff teams...

the reality is you are a middling team that wins the games it should while playing average against playoff teams...

Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 07:40 PM
One of the best records against the west and .500 plus teams is average? Okay lol.

Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 07:47 PM
Btw if you look closer at the losses you'll see that despite being severely shorthanded it was just a 3 point loss to Heat, 2.point loss to Warriors, 3 point loss to Blazers, 5 point loss to Indy. More than half of those were on B2B if I recall down key guys like Redick and Barnes. To imply the Clippers don't compete with the best teams is flat out dumb. Also we've had 5 losses to non playoff teams, not including Memphis. You're looking at records now but at the time it was 5 bad teams I'm pretty sure.

JerseyPalahniuk
01-18-2014, 07:51 PM
This seems worth discussing considering that the general consensus was that the team is nothing without CP3 and without him the team would crash and burn. Not saying they are as good sans CP3 of course, merely saying CP3 gets far too much credit and I've been saying it 3 years. This team is much more than CP3. Do you still feel that way?

If you were referring to anything before this season, it doesn't count because Vinny was to coach. A paul-less team with Vinny coaching would be awful. Secondly, Reddick came back just in time. One can argue that Reddick was extremely valuable to River's system as well - they lost to lotto teams when he went out.

WARRIORS@GR
01-18-2014, 07:54 PM
It means they are a good team,which does not heavily rely on cp3.That doesn't change the fact that without him in the playoffs they would probably get swept.

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 08:08 PM
One of the best records against the west and .500 plus teams is average? Okay lol.

what no response on the fact that you had only lost to 4 lotto teams in spite of your prior point

what is your record against playoff teams? maybe then you will understand what average is

Cracka2HI!
01-18-2014, 08:16 PM
Indy game means nothing. It's a "schedule loss" and won't change the point. On road where Indy is 20-1 on a B2B missing our best player. Indy on the other hand has played just twice in 7 or 8 days. Even WITH CP3 I'd expect a loss in that scenario.

Vinyl you forgot to mention that although it was just a 2 point win they went on a 23-4 run to come back from 17 down with 4 minutes left. The bad teams excuse doesn't work because as I said earlier WITH CP3 this team was.losing to lotto teams. Now they are blowing them out.
I don't know why you wouldn't expect us to win considering you started a thread suggesting the team is playing better without CP3. I don't expect the team to have any of the same excuses you just used and to play hard. Looking good so far. I'm off to the bar, go Clippers!

Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 08:17 PM
Jersey you're 100 percent spot on and I agree. Honest Redick may be more important to the offensive system we run than even CP3 and Griffin. Numbers certainly seem to suggest it. Doc even said when Redick was out he wasn't going to bother implementing the offense much, because it requires JJ to be in the lineup.

Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 08:21 PM
Cracka read again. I specifically said I'm NOT claiming the team is better without CP3. That would be dumb to say. What I am saying is that sans CP3 they aren't a train wreck people said they'd be and that other players deserve more credit, instead of CP3 getting ALL of it all the time.

Vinyl I did respond and you're spewing a bunch of misguided garbage and I'm wasting my time with you. 6-1 without CP3 not 5-1. You're misusing the word average in this context. To be well over .500 vs the west or playoff teams is good, not average. Only a few other teams have been as good vs the best teams. Not long ago we had THE best record against the west outside of the Heat and .500 teams although that likely changed.

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 08:26 PM
Cracka read again. I specifically said I'm NOT claiming the team is better without CP3. That would be dumb to say. What I am saying is that sans CP3 they aren't a train wreck people said they'd be and that other players deserve more credit, instead of CP3 getting ALL of it all the time.

Vinyl I did respond and you're spewing a bunch of misguided garbage and I'm wasting my time with you. 6-1 without CP3 not 5-1. You're misusing the word average in this context. To be well over .500 vs the west or playoff teams is good, not average. Only a few other teams have been as good vs the best teams. Not long ago we had THE best record against the west outside of the Heat and .500 teams although that likely changed.

name the games... its 5-1

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 08:29 PM
well over 500 against playoff teams... hmm ... might want to check on that

Chronz
01-18-2014, 08:31 PM
Jersey you're 100 percent spot on and I agree. Honest Redick may be more important to the offensive system we run than even CP3 and Griffin. Numbers certainly seem to suggest it. Doc even said when Redick was out he wasn't going to bother implementing the offense much, because it requires JJ to be in the lineup.

What numbers, btw? Not doubting you just curious. I recall Doc saying the same about CP3 being gone as well.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 08:39 PM
Cracka read again. I specifically said I'm NOT claiming the team is better without CP3. That would be dumb to say. What I am saying is that sans CP3 they aren't a train wreck people said they'd be and that other players deserve more credit, instead of CP3 getting ALL of it all the time.
I honestly have no clue what you're talking about, what would make this thread more fun would be to call out specific individuals or groups. If you cant remember so be it, but I never got the impression that people felt it was ALL CP3 considering this is a team game with lots of factors involved, just that he was easily and BY FAR their most impactful and best player. I find most people (the good posters at least) are more sensible than you are claiming, the kind of people that wouldn't be swayed by small stretches but the overall season impact.


Vinyl I did respond and you're spewing a bunch of misguided garbage and I'm wasting my time with you. 6-1 without CP3 not 5-1. You're misusing the word average in this context. To be well over .500 vs the west or playoff teams is good, not average. Only a few other teams have been as good vs the best teams. Not long ago we had THE best record against the west outside of the Heat and .500 teams although that likely changed.
TBH, when using a small sample of games, neither one of you has much of a point here, maybe if you showed us the efficiency differentials or if you can manage it, our SRS. Overall the team is playing better than it has to start the year when the defense was virtually non-existent. During that stretch I was worried that we would be more reliant on CP3 than ever before, thank god the defense recovered.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 08:41 PM
name the games... its 5-1

CP3 has missed 7 games this year bro, do the math.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 08:43 PM
well over 500 against playoff teams... hmm ... might want to check on that
Ive seen studies on this, its not as relevant as you may think. So either way, who cares, just focus on the efficiency of the team and its best lineups.

This year we may not be as good as our squad last year but we have a better starting unit. Thats all I care about. The wins and losses will fluctuate based on variables that hopefully wont come into play come playoffs.

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 08:44 PM
CP3 has missed 7 games this year bro, do the math.

he is talking about the recent stretch... its 6 games BRO

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 08:47 PM
Ive seen studies on this, its not as relevant as you may think. So either way, who cares, just focus on the efficiency of the team and its best lineups.

This year we may not be as good as our squad last year but we have a better starting unit. Thats all I care about. The wins and losses will fluctuate based on variables that hopefully wont come into play come playoffs.

the OP is making the argument ... I am simply saying the stats don't back up his contention...

Are you saying the Clippers are WAY over 500 against playoff teams...

try and understand that if someone is going to start a thread with bulls hit assumptions that it is gonna be challenged

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 08:49 PM
TBH, when using a small sample of games, neither one of you has much of a point here, maybe if you showed us the efficiency differentials or if you can manage it, our SRS. Overall the team is playing better than it has to start the year when the defense was virtually non-existent. During that stretch I was worried that we would be more reliant on CP3 than ever before, thank god the defense recovered.

again... in the context of his post the last 6 games are irrelevant in proving his thesis which was my point...

as for any other numbers i provided i don't see how they would be irrelevant because they were ytd numbers

Chronz
01-18-2014, 08:56 PM
Accuracy is important but is it relevant? U guys are bickering right now

ManRam
01-18-2014, 08:56 PM
This thread always pops up when he and any other star goes down. It always looks foolish in the end.

Clippersfan86
01-18-2014, 09:03 PM
Vinyl why so.uptight? You're putting words in my mouth bro. I said 6 of 7 without CP3 and was including one game earlier this year, where did I specify this recent injury only? Also I never said "WAY" with that much emphasis, but implied more than average and think I said "well". As I said if you have a better than .500 record vs the elite, that's very good. For example the Spurs have just 2 or 3 such wins this year.

FlashBolt
01-19-2014, 12:39 PM
Here goes Clippersfan contradicting himself. He says Clippers beat the teams that they initially lost to with CP3 but then says that the team is obviously better with CP3. What are you implying? Are they better or are they not? Plus, you guys tend to do well in the regular season but then your boyhood hero Blake Griffin gets destroyed by any frontcourt handed to him.

3RDASYSTEM
01-19-2014, 01:04 PM
Have won 6 of 7 and 5 in a row. Sure they haven't played particularly tough teams... but remember WITH CP3 those same lotto teams beat the Clippers. The only loss without CP3 was to the Spurs on the road, on a B2B when they were also.missing Redick, Bullock and Barnes to go with CP3.

This seems worth discussing considering that the general consensus was that the team is nothing without CP3 and without him the team would crash and burn. Not saying they are as good sans CP3 of course, merely saying CP3 gets far too much credit and I've been saying it 3 years. This team is much more than CP3. Do you still feel that way? Do the other players deserve more credit now?

Chronz I'd love your opinion on this in particular.

Reason you don't notice a dip is because DOC coaches the same way CP3 plays the game, spread the ball and find the open man and he calls set plays that usually result in buckets or good looks, all CP3 strengths rather he is there or not, CP3 is not a 7 game series take over type guy, he is a better shooting(dribbler also) version of RONDO basically

they would have lost in same fashion with or without CP3 in past 2 postseasons with him so it's pretty much the same, he made them better regular season team, not so much playoff wise, but i'm giving him 3-5 yrs to prove it so it's much to be seen still

CP3 is good just not next level ZEKE-IVERSON type in my sports book

VikesTwinsWolve
01-19-2014, 02:10 PM
Clippers along with griffen, paul, and Jordan are the greatest of all time! Nobody stands a chance against them imo. There clippersfan86 do you feel better now. Your threads are either about how great your team is ( for the clips forum) or troll threads wanting reaction. How do I block this guy?

Bruno
01-19-2014, 04:13 PM
Nah, they are simply playing to their talent level, honestly dont understand where you're coming from with the Kobe comp. Clips with Reddick+CP3 were far more explosive offensively. The only reason we struggled early was because Blake was off to a slow start on both ends and Doc was treating the opening weeks as a trial run to try different strats. The defense has recovered and Blake began playing more aggressively (this started before CP3 went down).

The only key is that the bigs show up come playoff time. Our offense has NEVER been the main problem, its been the horrific defense. That said, Ill take some defensive lapses if Blake+DJ can actually translate their regular season success into winning time.

Im confident Doc has instilled that mindset in them now.

I was less so comparing the two rosters/players, but trying to make the general point that sometimes teams can step up big when their best player is out. its a great sign for the clippers, playing so well without Paul. i just felt like personally that if they can sustain this without him its great news for the chances of performing like this with Paul during the post-season (for the confidence of winning without him alone). like you said, Doc has a good reign on it and it could be great timing for the Clippers to be clicking on all cylinders come post-season. i mean you nailed it- blake and jordan showing up big time in the post-season next to a healthy Paul. you add some brilliantly timed great shooting and the Clips could be dangerous against anyone.


Bruno Redick has the second best offensive rating in the NBA. With him in the lineup we are the best O by a landslide last I saw. That's why I got defensive when people downplayed his absence.
really? nice, i haven't seen the numbers but I think JJs injury was a big blow and obviously so.

Method28
01-19-2014, 05:59 PM
Have won 6 of 7 and 5 in a row. Sure they haven't played particularly tough teams... but remember WITH CP3 those same lotto teams beat the Clippers. The only loss without CP3 was to the Spurs on the road, on a B2B when they were also.missing Redick, Bullock and Barnes to go with CP3.

This seems worth discussing considering that the general consensus was that the team is nothing without CP3 and without him the team would crash and burn. Not saying they are as good sans CP3 of course, merely saying CP3 gets far too much credit and I've been saying it 3 years. This team is much more than CP3. Do you still feel that way? Do the other players deserve more credit now?

Chronz I'd love your opinion on this in particular.

Reason you don't notice a dip is because DOC coaches the same way CP3 plays the game, spread the ball and find the open man and he calls set plays that usually result in buckets or good looks, all CP3 strengths rather he is there or not, CP3 is not a 7 game series take over type guy, he is a better shooting(dribbler also) version of RONDO basically

they would have lost in same fashion with or without CP3 in past 2 postseasons with him so it's pretty much the same, he made them better regular season team, not so much playoff wise, but i'm giving him 3-5 yrs to prove it so it's much to be seen still

CP3 is good just not next level ZEKE-IVERSON type in my sports book

I think you should look at CP3s career playoff numbers again. He is exactly a take over type of player. If there is a player he's compared to most it's Zeke.

Clips just need to stay healthy for a stretch to get a rhythm going and of course, the most important thing of all...stay healthy for the playoffs

Chronz
01-20-2014, 01:37 AM
I was less so comparing the two rosters/players, but trying to make the general point that sometimes teams can step up big when their best player is out. its a great sign for the clippers, playing so well without Paul. i just felt like personally that if they can sustain this without him its great news for the chances of performing like this with Paul during the post-season (for the confidence of winning without him alone). like you said, Doc has a good reign on it and it could be great timing for the Clippers to be clicking on all cylinders come post-season. i mean you nailed it- blake and jordan showing up big time in the post-season next to a healthy Paul. you add some brilliantly timed great shooting and the Clips could be dangerous against anyone.
The only one really stepping it up has been Darren Collison and thats somewhat attributable to being able to start, the rest of them were playing at that level at various points in the season IMO.

eDush
01-20-2014, 09:50 AM
Indy game means nothing. It's a "schedule loss" and won't change the point. On road where Indy is 20-1 on a B2B missing our best player. Indy on the other hand has played just twice in 7 or 8 days. Even WITH CP3 I'd expect a loss in that scenario.

Vinyl you forgot to mention that although it was just a 2 point win they went on a 23-4 run to come back from 17 down with 4 minutes left. The bad teams excuse doesn't work because as I said earlier WITH CP3 this team was.losing to lotto teams. Now they are blowing them out.

more jibberish... you have lost only 4 games to non-playoff teams... including one to memphis... the other 9 losses are to current playoff teams...

the reality is you are a middling team that wins the games it should while playing average against playoff teams...

CP3 needs the Clippers as much as they need him.

jp611
01-20-2014, 10:43 AM
Clearly the Clippers are better without Paul.

Just like the Bulls are better without Rose.

WES KOAST
01-20-2014, 12:28 PM
cp3 aint no winner. he cant lead his team past the 1st round. they should've kept Bledsoe but paul didn't like looking over his shoulder

Goose17
01-20-2014, 03:49 PM
Blake is doing well. Nice to see him improve his game.

He still deserves to be ***** slapped though.

Cracka2HI!
01-20-2014, 06:30 PM
cp3 aint no winner. he cant lead his team past the 1st round. they should've kept Bledsoe but paul didn't like looking over his shoulder
Unless you count the 2 times he's led his team to the 2nd round and consider the teams he's played on. This is the best team he's ever been on. I think the next 2-3 years of his career will tell the story of what kind of "winner" he is. As for Bledsoe. He had to be traded. There is no way the team could keep him long term. He is injured right now and the Clippers are 6-2 without Paul. I'm have no idea what kind of point you are trying to make about Bledsoe.