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sunsfan88
01-17-2014, 04:53 PM
Magic Johnson believes the Los Angeles Lakers will continue to have issues in rebuilding their team while Jim Buss takes such an active role in player personnel decisions.

Johnson believes the Lakers need someone like Jerry West to be in control of the front office.

“You’ve got to have someone helping Jim. He’s got to quit trying to prove a point to everybody that he can do it on his own, get his ego out of it, and just say, ‘Let me get someone beside me to help achieve the goals I want.' "

The Lakers have a 14-24 record and have lost 11 of 12 games.

“Look what Pat Riley did in Miami,” said Johnson. “If Pat Riley’s not there, you don’t get LeBron to buy in.”

Johnson said that Mitch Kupchak is doing a good job as general manager of the Lakers.

“Mitch is great,” he said, “but he doesn’t have the power.”

Johnson also added, “Everybody’s telling me free agents don’t want to sign [with the Lakers]…. They’re looking at the Lakers now as a team that’s dysfunctional; who’s their leader, who’s the guy?”

http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-magic-johnson-lakers-20140115,0,2446795.story#axzz2qgAO35lX


I think this is one of the problems of "tanking". You establish a losing culture and its hard to get rid of it. Of course over very long periods of time, teams like the Clippers, Warriors etc became winning teams but its not the norm imo.

I don't completely agree with Magic necessarily though. Boston is having the same problems with Gerald Wallace complaining all the time and saying how everyone that plays for the Celtics are selifsh and playing like a team...does that mean FAs won't sign with the Celtics either?

I do however think that even big market teams need to show signs of promise for FAs to sign there. In like 14 years of the Clippers being terrible, they got just ONE superstar FA to sign with them...one in 14 years and that's CP3. All that despite the Clippers belonging to LA, one of the biggest, if not the biggest market in the NBA.


And the Lakers don't really operate completely by signing superstar FAs either...in the past 20 or so years, other than Shaq which superstar has signed with the Lakers? Exactly.

lol, please
01-17-2014, 05:03 PM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.

sunsfan88
01-17-2014, 05:14 PM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.
I hate the Lakers and I hope your right but I don't see it. It would only be fair though if what you said happened...LAL has won tons of rings and has had plenty of success...I think it would only be fair to them experience misery for a while.

championships
01-17-2014, 05:18 PM
Magic is right here and many many fans believe Jimbo buss is driving this franchise into the dirt.

Many Laker fans think Phil Jackson should have a Riley like position in the Lakers FO.

ManRam
01-17-2014, 05:26 PM
The Lakers are still far more appealing than most other teams, but I do think their own fans take the "hey, we're LAL, we can sign whoever we want" thing a bit too far, and have for a long time. Watching them name all the stars they expect to sign is always a) hilarious and b) kinda depressing at the same time because most fans of every other team can't even be that imaginative. That dichotomy sucks. At least my team has done it once before...gives me even the tiniest bit of hope down the road.

I'd imagine, and obviously it's just speculation, that a lot of players still dream of playing for LAL, but might just be a little less eager than usual. There's not much that's tangibly there to be excited about. Nothing at all, really.

DaLakerz Rulz
01-17-2014, 05:36 PM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.

maybe if you are like 90 years old

Tumstock
01-17-2014, 05:45 PM
[/I]
I don't completely agree with Magic necessarily though. Boston is having the same problems with Gerald Wallace complaining all the time and saying how everyone that plays for the Celtics are selifsh and playing like a team...does that mean FAs won't sign with the Celtics either?

I don't think any "big name" free agent has signed with the Celtics ever, not likely to happen either.
Not for the reasons mentioned above, but the fact that Boston is a booring cold city.

Most players seem to prioritise attractive citys i.e NY or LA over team situation.
I think the lakers are gonna do fine regardless of the current situation when it comes to signing free agents.

Lakers + Giants
01-17-2014, 06:18 PM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.

Lakers have been relevant since you were floating in a sack doe.

It's obvious you still fear the lakers, even when we're in tank mode.

I agree with Man Ram, I always think about all the FA's we can get, Love, KD, Westbrook, Lebron, Melo (even tho I don't want him). We do exaggerate at times, but I do feel players would love to play for us, at least more than 75% of other teams.

No way in hell lakers will be bottom feeders for the rest of our lives tho, unless you're expecting death soon lmao.

TylerSL
01-17-2014, 07:26 PM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.

lol no way

Sure the Lakers are bad now and will miss the playoffs this year and most likely have their worst season in like 25+ years. However this year will be defined as a no Kobe year. They lost Dwight and has Nash even played?????

They will end up getting either Melo or Love in Free Agency (possibly both) and that will attract others to come to LA. We might not see them win another title for a while, but they will be in the playoffs within the next 2 years. 100% guarantee

Note-The Lakers are never getting Lebron

HoopsMachine
01-17-2014, 07:30 PM
Don't really see the Lakers becoming contenders again in the West until Kobe retires. The best thing for now is to continue to tank and slowly rebuild their roster through the draft. Once Kobe leaves LA will regain its appeal again as a place to attract top level Free Agents.

RLundi
01-17-2014, 08:42 PM
http://blogs.studentlife.utoronto.ca/lifeatuoft/files/2013/01/****-grumpy-cat-good-sad-13529885618-300x200.jpg

Chronz
01-17-2014, 09:02 PM
I believe this rebuild will be harder than the fans think, I dont expect playoffs for awhile.

Without stars, I don't think the lakers know how to find bargains

Trueblue2
01-17-2014, 09:35 PM
I think this is one of the problems of "tanking". You establish a losing culture and its hard to get rid of it. Of course over very long periods of time, teams like the Clippers, Warriors etc became winning teams but its not the norm imo.

I don't completely agree with Magic necessarily though. Boston is having the same problems with Gerald Wallace complaining all the time and saying how everyone that plays for the Celtics are selifsh and playing like a team...does that mean FAs won't sign with the Celtics either?

I do however think that even big market teams need to show signs of promise for FAs to sign there. In like 14 years of the Clippers being terrible, they got just ONE superstar FA to sign with them...one in 14 years and that's CP3. All that despite the Clippers belonging to LA, one of the biggest, if not the biggest market in the NBA.


And the Lakers don't really operate completely by signing superstar FAs either...in the past 20 or so years, other than Shaq which superstar has signed with the Lakers? Exactly.



Even though the Lakers haven't historically built contending teams through Free Agency, it's become their only shot. They have zero tradeable assets, two over the hill stars on bloated contracts, and no draft picks. The only thing short of winning the lottery that would turn LA into competitors is a big FA year in either 14 or 15.

DaLakerz Rulz
01-17-2014, 09:44 PM
Don't really see the Lakers becoming contenders again in the West until Kobe retires. The best thing for now is to continue to tank and slowly rebuild their roster through the draft. Once Kobe leaves LA will regain its appeal again as a place to attract top level Free Agents.

I agree - I think it will even take a while after Kobe retires. Maybe some fans on here are delusional, but a lot of fellow Laker fans I know understand this and are of the same mindset.

Kevj77
01-17-2014, 10:04 PM
Magic may be right about Jim Buss. However, Jim did trade for Cp3 only to get vetoed by Stern and Howard. If that CP3 trade doesn't get vetoed Howard stays and people think he's a genius right. Howard leaving gave the Lakers brand a black eye, but was that all Jim Buss because I think Howard's relationship or lack of one with Kobe was a bigger factor.

It is still LA they will attract free agents.

shep33
01-17-2014, 10:09 PM
No offense to Magic, but he doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to the Lakers.

Buss sucks yeah, but Magic is clueless

Bruno
01-17-2014, 10:10 PM
Magic may be right about Jim Buss. However, Jim did trade for Cp3 only to get vetoed by Stern and Howard. If that CP3 trade doesn't get vetoed Howard stays and people think he's a genius right. Howard leaving gave the Lakers brand a black eye, but was that all Jim Buss because I think Howard's relationship or lack of one with Kobe was a bigger factor.

It is still LA they will attract free agents.
when they rig the draft again LA is going to get a top three pick. it'll be the leagues way of saying sorry for screwing the Lakers with the Chris Paul trade/paying for most other franchises mistakes year in and year out with revenue sharing and heavy tax.

sunsfan88
01-17-2014, 10:18 PM
I don't think LAL will get even a top 8 pick. I think once Kobe, Nash, Farmar and Blake return they will at least be mediocre.

shep33
01-17-2014, 10:31 PM
I don't think LAL will get even a top 8 pick. I think once Kobe, Nash, Farmar and Blake return they will at least be mediocre.

I think we'll get a top 6-7 pick.

Nash can't get healthy. He's pretty much done. Kobe just said he'd be re-evaluated in February, so that means the earliest he probably comes back is mid Feb. Then you have to take into account the chemistry issues their re-entry will play. Then Kobe is bound to get hurt again

ldawg
01-17-2014, 11:29 PM
No offense to Magic, but he doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to the Lakers.

Buss sucks yeah, but Magic is clueless

wrong magic has been around the game for a while now. Jim has screwed up the Lakers. They make bad choices very often. Kobe extension was the latest. He was a screw up the day he told Bynum get his own coach and that phil was a bad big man coach. He is one of those guys that think everything is easy and a know it all. How hard can it be to build a championship team right? The real question is to ask how can you screw up one of the greatest team in sports. TNT ESPN don't even want to air their games. That's new for the Lakers. your in denial.

championships
01-18-2014, 12:21 AM
No offense to Magic, but he doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to the Lakers.

Buss sucks yeah, but Magic is cluelessMagic probably knows more about basketball and how the business is ran better than jimbo does. He is far from clueless to say the least.



"We played pool. That was our favorite thing to do," Johnson said. "He took me to Las Vegas. We hung out. Last but not least, he taught me the Laker business."

"He allowed me to look at the books. He took me through the books. That's the reason I'm a businessman today, because of Dr. Buss. He allowed me to buy into the Lakers," Johnson said. "(Next to the championships) ... it was my second greatest moment, owning the Lakers. I'm indebted to him.

"He is a man that touched so many peoples' lives. He allowed me to be one of the Buss boys."


Most recently, Johnson said Buss took great pride in Johnson buying into the Los Angeles Dodgers, the team that had owned Los Angeles before Buss turned L.A. into Showtime for the Lakers.

"The first call I got when we bought the Dodgers was from Dr. Buss. I thought he bought the Dodgers, he was so happy," Johnson said. "It was just a father being proud of a son. He would always ask me, 'What's your next move?'

JWorthy42
01-18-2014, 12:41 AM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.

I suggest you speak proper English if you want to command any sort of credibility, "doe".

JWorthy42
01-18-2014, 12:44 AM
You know you're an awesome franchise, when if you face some difficulty that other teams have faced and face on the regular, you create chaos and panic within the league.

kobe4thewinbang
01-18-2014, 12:45 AM
Does Magic ever shut up?

championships
01-18-2014, 12:49 AM
Does Magic ever shut up?

The statue says he doesn't have to.

kobe4thewinbang
01-18-2014, 02:14 AM
The statue says he doesn't have to.BS, man. Yeah, he was a great player. But he's been dogging the Lakers for 2 seasons now. Nothing's going to change for a while. Him keeping it up just makes it more insufferable. He's just a broken record, time and time again.

JWorthy42
01-18-2014, 05:20 AM
BS, man. Yeah, he was a great player. But he's been dogging the Lakers for 2 seasons now. Nothing's going to change for a while. Him keeping it up just makes it more insufferable. He's just a broken record, time and time again.

You're a Lakers fan with a Celtics sig...?

mpiccard661
01-18-2014, 06:05 AM
Celtics sig...wtf

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-18-2014, 06:58 AM
I believe this rebuild will be harder than the fans think, I dont expect playoffs for awhile.

Without stars, I don't think the lakers know how to find bargains

absolutely false

NYSpirit1
01-18-2014, 12:29 PM
I think the Lakers will be bad for awhile. Not forever, though. Maybe the next 5 years.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 12:49 PM
absolutely false
Doesn't seem to be. They acquire names and dont really do well with late first/2nd round picks since how long now?

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 01:03 PM
Damn so many people close to the Lakers organization hate Jim Buss (his sister included I think... lol). It really shows he needs to go if witnessing him hire Dantoni over Phil wasn't enough already.

KnicksorBust
01-18-2014, 01:11 PM
When was the last time they could even afford a max FA?

Shlumpledink
01-18-2014, 01:17 PM
It seems like there is a certain element of people that wants to say that tanking is bad as a basic principle. Sure, trying to lose is contrary to sport, but the way the draft is formatted means that losing can actually help you.

Especially in a down year where you are faced with a ton of injuries. Every team goes through down years, and its important that you maximize your returns from these bad years.

The one thing the Lakers can do as either the centerpiece, or the main part of their rebuild, is get a good selection. Whether they want to play the draft, or trade the pick.

They will still have their free agency options, but it is important to supplement their talent they can sign through the draft, they can't expect to buy an entirely new team.

Also, Magic likes to trash the new Laker Owner. Magic has soured to the Lakers management over the past few years, part of that was he had to show he was unbiased through the national media.
Now, anything he can do to disparage Jim Buss, he does.
Most people knew going into the year what the Lakers were capable of, they were going to have to get through a bad year. Now a lot of media, and fans, get on the ownership expecting them to turn things around in the middle of the year.

It didn't seem like free agents didn't want to come to the Lakers when we signed a bunch of guys to one year deals.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-18-2014, 01:22 PM
Damn so many people close to the Lakers organization hate Jim Buss (his sister included I think... lol). It really shows he needs to go if witnessing him hire Dantoni over Phil wasn't enough already.

if Stern would have not blocked the cp3 trade, everyone would suck Jimmy's dick

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 02:08 PM
Doesn't seem to be. They acquire names and dont really do well with late first/2nd round picks since how long now?

Who really does well with any picks? Let alone late second rounders. Plus they haven't had a first round pick since 2009. The Lakers have never really done well in the draft. Their have been some real head scratchers by both Jerry West and Mitch.

They have four knockout picks in Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Magic, and James Worthy. But those were all number 1 picks with Jerry West going number 2. But the rest of it looks like a bunch of slop. But I could go up and down the draft history of every team and see the same thing.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 02:14 PM
I think the Lakers will be bad for awhile. Not forever, though. Maybe the next 5 years.

Do you know who the Lakers will draft this summer? Do you know what they are going to get for Pau Gasol? Do you know what free agents might sign with the Lakers? If not, I don't know how you or anyone could say with any ounce of conviction that any team is going to be bad for the next 5 years. Especially a team that does not have one guy on the roster that would be here longer than the next 2 years.

Its as silly as a Laker fan saying we are going to be a dominating force in 3 years once we draft Embiid this summer who is going to turn into the best center in the league, sign Love next year, then sign Durant once Kobe retires in 2 years and have the greatest front court ever created. We don't know what is going to happen. And neither does anyone saying we will be bad for the next five years.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 02:14 PM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.

See above....

Chronz
01-18-2014, 02:14 PM
Who really does well with any picks?
So you suggest we ignore draft history and success rates? I get that they are long shots, but it makes it all the more impressive when they get them right at a higher rate than lg average.


Let alone late second rounders.
Morey has found plenty of late gems.


Plus they haven't had a first round pick since 2009.
The ultimate white flag imo, they trade those picks for brand names in part because they know they arent very good drafters.


The Lakers have never really done well in the draft. Their have been some real head scratchers by both Jerry West and Mitch.
That was just one example, but I didn't mean just picks. What about free agency studs. What stands out as a money ball move?


They have four knockout picks in Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Magic, and James Worthy. But those were all number 1 picks with Jerry West going number 2. But the rest of it looks like a bunch of slop. But I could go up and down the draft history of every team and see the same thing.
Im talking about current regime.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 02:19 PM
Do you know who the Lakers will draft this summer? Do you know what they are going to get for Pau Gasol? Do you know what free agents might sign with the Lakers? If not, I don't know how you or anyone could say with any ounce of conviction that any team is going to be bad for the next 5 years. Especially a team that does not have one guy on the roster that would be here longer than the next 2 years.
Well have you ever seen a team completely unload their roster without having any keepers already on board? Kobes contract isn't very friendly and I doubt Pau's value is high at this point. Lakers have no plan aside from hoping they can lure big names IMO, if they dont, they have proven to be below league average in terms of bargain finding. So how do you build?



Its as silly as a Laker fan saying we are going to be a dominating force in 3 years once we draft Embiid this summer who is going to turn into the best center in the league, sign Love next year, then sign Durant once Kobe retires in 2 years and have the greatest front court ever created. We don't know what is going to happen. And neither does anyone saying we will be bad for the next five years.
I dont think the 2 are one and the same, you're hypothetical is considerably more out there. But I would agree thats their best chance (that either Love or Durant or both come over). Thats the Laker way. I just dont think its happening anymore, the dry spell has come. We wont be hearing from you guys for a long time IMO.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 02:20 PM
if Stern would have not blocked the cp3 trade, everyone would suck Jimmy's dick

I have a feeling we'll be hearing this for many years as the Lakers continue to flounder.

PurpleLynch
01-18-2014, 02:23 PM
Our only hope is to hire Phil in the FO with functions like Riley with the Heat.Jim Buss can watch his team playing on piles of money,I don't care,but he just need to think right now. It's also his business.He can be the president,doing side things like his sister and let Phil run the team part. He would be remembered for this good move forever. But he's stubborn as ****,damn!

PurpleLynch
01-18-2014, 02:30 PM
I have a feeling we'll be hearing this for many years as the Lakers continue to flounder.

Lakers fans should remember that Stern had all the rights to do this,since the LEAGUE owned NO Hornets at the time and so made what he thought to be the best for the team.Was he right? That's debatable.But we should top to feel bitter for it,even if I feel bitter about it.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 02:37 PM
Lakers fans should remember that Stern had all the rights to do this,since the LEAGUE owned NO Hornets at the time and so made what he thought to be the best for the team.Was he right? That's debatable.But we should top to feel bitter for it,even if I feel bitter about it.

I dont think its debateable at all, NO wound up with a franchise cornerstone as a result of not settling for mediocrity (aka 10th seed purgatory)

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 02:37 PM
Damn so many people close to the Lakers organization hate Jim Buss (his sister included I think... lol). It really shows he needs to go if witnessing him hire Dantoni over Phil wasn't enough already.

if Stern would have not blocked the cp3 trade, everyone would suck Jimmy's dick

I'm not sure about that let's just say there would be something on his record to help balance out his mistakes.

I forget but what was the reason for blocking that trade again??? I can't remember...

Chronz
01-18-2014, 02:38 PM
Our only hope is to hire Phil in the FO with functions like Riley with the Heat.Jim Buss can watch his team playing on piles of money,I don't care,but he just need to think right now. It's also his business.He can be the president,doing side things like his sister and let Phil run the team part. He would be remembered for this good move forever. But he's stubborn as ****,damn!

Didn't Phil want Sean May above Andrew Bynum?

Chronz
01-18-2014, 02:39 PM
I'm not sure about that let's just say there would be something on his record to help balance out his mistakes.

I forget but what was the reason for blocking that trade again??? I can't remember...

It was a horrible trade, he had given Monty (I believe, cant believe that oaf still has the job) full power but when he saw how awful of a trade it was, he rescinded that power.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 02:47 PM
So you suggest we ignore draft history and success rates? I get that they are long shots, but it makes it all the more impressive when they get them right at a higher rate than lg average.

Not saying we should ignore anything. Just saying its not all that important. The Lakers success has always been predicated off of trades and one big free agent signing of Shaq. Or the drafting of a cant miss number one guy.



Morey has found plenty of late gems.

I wouldn't say plenty. He has had 10 second round picks since he took over in 2007 and got two good players. Carl Laundry and Chandler Parsons. But he also threw away a first round pick with Royce White. His other first round picks have been pretty bad as well. First he traded Nicolas Batum for Donte Green, drafted Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris, and Nikola Mirotic. I would say Lamb might have promise and I like what I see from Jones. But just like Mitch and every other GM, Morey has plenty of picks that he would like a do over. Add that to the fact that his teams current success has nothing to do with his drafting skills. It has been all free agency and trades. Dwight, Lin, Asik, and Harden are there in spite of his drafting.


The ultimate white flag imo, they trade those picks for brand names in part because they know they arent very good drafters.

Maybe, or maybe because they see the league trend that says this is not a prudent way to build a team. Never has been for them or many others. Spurs may be the lone exception in the modern NBA. (Parker/Manu)


That was just one example, but I didn't mean just picks. What about free agency studs. What stands out as a money ball move?

Money ball? Not sure what you mean. But since they have not had any cap room since Shaq got here, Im not sure what you would expect them to do as far as free agency. Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Ron Artest, Derek Fisher when he came back?



Im talking about current regime.

Like I said earlier. Looking back on it, Jerry West failed a lot in the draft. Mitch has at least pulled Bynum out when nobody else saw it.

canzano55
01-18-2014, 02:56 PM
Do Lakers fans really think they can get Durant?

You guys gotta be kidding yourselves.

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 03:01 PM
I wouldn't say plenty. He has had 10 second round picks since he took over in 2007 and got two good players. Carl Laundry and Chandler Parsons. But he also threw away a first round pick with Royce White. His other first round picks have been pretty bad as well. First he traded Nicolas Batum for Donte Green, drafted Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris, and Nikola Mirotic. I would say Lamb might have promise and I like what I see from Jones. But just like Mitch and every other GM, Morey has plenty of picks that he would like a do over. Add that to the fact that his teams current success has nothing to do with his drafting skills. It has been all free agency and trades. Dwight, Lin, Asik, and Harden are there in spite of his drafting. Raptor fans thank Morey and The Kings for Patterson he's been solid for us since the Rudy trade!

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 03:10 PM
Chronz;27820888]Well have you ever seen a team completely unload their roster without having any keepers already on board? Kobes contract isn't very friendly and I doubt Pau's value is high at this point. Lakers have no plan aside from hoping they can lure big names IMO, if they dont, they have proven to be below league average in terms of bargain finding. So how do you build?

Well, there might be some keepers. I like Wes Johnson, Jordan Farmar, Jordan Hill, and Xavier Henry. Those minimum salary guys are valuable and they would look real good if they were not relied upon to be the starters of a team like they have been this year. Young athletic and cheap. Bargain finding is only valuable after you have stars in place.


I dont think the 2 are one and the same, you're hypothetical is considerably more out there. But I would agree thats their best chance (that either Love or Durant or both come over). Thats the Laker way. I just dont think its happening anymore, the dry spell has come. We wont be hearing from you guys for a long time IMO.

Why would you think that? Just because Dwight left? Who else have the Lakers gone after and not gotten? If the Lakers really wanted Dwight, they would have had him. But seeing as how he is no longer what he once was, they did not feel the need to placate him. When Kobe was a free agent, the traded Shaq and let the best coach of all time walk away to keep Kobe. They wouldn't even hire the best coach of all time to keep Howard. Dwight said it himself. If they would have given him his coach, he would still be here. If there is a free agent out there worth it, the Lakers can go all out and have as good a pitch as anyone in the NBA.

If they get one of these cant miss guys in the draft and sign one good free agent, they will have cap room and two good pieces to build around in two years when Kobe is done.

I do remember hearing that the Lakers were in the beginning of the dark ages in 2005 as well. There was no hope in sight and people were loving it. Three years later, those voices were suddenly quite. I feel history always repeats itself.

Bruno
01-18-2014, 03:18 PM
I have a feeling we'll be hearing this for many years as the Lakers continue to flounder.

me too. and i think we'll be hearing a lot of this when LAL magically walks away with a top three lottery pick. stern/slivers way of saying sorry for ruining your team chemistry and future plans? haha.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 03:19 PM
Do Lakers fans really think they can get Durant?

You guys gotta be kidding yourselves.

Why is that? Because OKC has done such a great job since drafting him and Russell? Maybe he would want to go to a team that would love to go over the cap to tip the balance in their favor? If the Lakers drafted say a Wiggens or Parker and signed a Love and Durant. When the time came, they would love to max out Wiggens/Parker/Smart/Embiid....etc, even if it put them 20 million over the cap. Its better than trading them for 20 cents on the dollar like OKC did with Harden. They are about their bottom line. Lakers are about winning. Players know this

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 03:22 PM
me too. and i think we'll be hearing a lot of this when LAL magically walks away with a top three lottery pick. stern/slivers way of saying sorry for ruining your team chemistry and future plans? haha.

Are you saying that NO got a first round pick as a way to show that Stern was right to block the trade? Or that the Cavs keep getting "lucky" for first overall picks because Lebron left? Are you saying that Stern would feel bad about turning Lamar into a crack head and Pau into a walking vagina and thus pay the Lakers back by moving us up a couple spots? I hope you are right!

mets100%
01-18-2014, 03:36 PM
Lol the Lakers will be in contention in 2-3 years. They will get a lottery pick this year and signed a star FA in 2015(Gasol,Love or Aldridge). By 2015 they will be a serious contender and I say this as a Celtics fan.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 04:05 PM
Not saying we should ignore anything. Just saying its not all that important. The Lakers success has always been predicated off of trades and one big free agent signing of Shaq. Or the drafting of a cant miss number one guy.
Thats my point, they have lived off the no brainer type of decision that most markets dont get the luxury of. When it comes time to think, they aren't very good.



I wouldn't say plenty. He has had 10 second round picks since he took over in 2007 and got two good players. Carl Laundry and Chandler Parsons.
Thats plenty along with a former MIP in the late 1st, undrafted guys like Hayes, when you look at the expected production levels, hes exceeded the threshold. Parsons is paid ridiculously cheap relative to his production. Budinger was very serviceable for his pick etc... so its more than 2.


But he also threw away a first round pick with Royce White.
From what I recall that was a McHale decision and when you're able to accumulate as many as 3 first rounders in a single draft, you can take more risks, yet another sign of a good GM.


His other first round picks have been pretty bad as well. First he traded Nicolas Batum for Donte Green, drafted Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris, and Nikola Mirotic. I would say Lamb might have promise and I like what I see from Jones. But just like Mitch and every other GM, Morey has plenty of picks that he would like a do over.
Just like Mitch? Not at all, every GM has plenty of picks they would like to do over, that doesn't mean they are all equally inept/adept, looking at Moreys history hes FAR superior when it comes to finding diamonds in the rough. Parsons may very well be the greatest bargain for his production/cost ratio of this era. Dude is literally taking cut rate advertising to make up for his lost money. 4 year team option of fringe All-Star production at dirt cheap is more than just a good investment.


Add that to the fact that his teams current success has nothing to do with his drafting skills. It has been all free agency and trades. Dwight, Lin, Asik, and Harden are there in spite of his drafting.
False, they have been acquired through his ability to maintain a competitive team despite never getting the green light to tank. Without the combination of quality assets and competitive squads, he doesn't get these guys in the first place. Hell, Parsons was the biggest recruiter for Dwight.




Maybe, or maybe because they see the league trend that says this is not a prudent way to build a team. Never has been for them or many others. Spurs may be the lone exception in the modern NBA. (Parker/Manu)
Many others? Not seeing what you're talking about, the best way to build a team is maximize all available assets, the Lakers biggest asset has been brand recognition. Give them a GM like Morey, and the Lakers window for contention stays open alot longer IMO.




Money ball? Not sure what you mean.
Players value that exceeds their contract.


But since they have not had any cap room since Shaq got here, Im not sure what you would expect them to do as far as free agency.
Actually, its when you are over the cap that bargain hunting becomes more valuable. Especially now that Kobe is taking up a large chunk of the cap space despite not being worth it from a competitive/production standpoint. You are going to need a way to offset that disadvantage, money ball players are the only way to do it now. Free agency or trade or bargain signings.


Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Ron Artest, Derek Fisher when he came back?
Yes players like that are prime examples, except for Artest, not a bargain at all. Now you have to ask yourself what brought in a GP/Malone and if that recipe can be replicated, and from where I stand, I dont see a Shaq type to recruit those guys so it puts pressure on management to actually do their due diligence.



Like I said earlier. Looking back on it, Jerry West failed a lot in the draft. Mitch has at least pulled Bynum out when nobody else saw it.
Im pretty sure that was Jim and that was a HUGE success. Can he pull another one of those moves?

Chronz
01-18-2014, 04:06 PM
me too. and i think we'll be hearing a lot of this when LAL magically walks away with a top three lottery pick. stern/slivers way of saying sorry for ruining your team chemistry and future plans? haha.

Stern would have no reason to be apologetic when he did what was in the best interest of the team he was currently residing over.

JEDean89
01-18-2014, 04:08 PM
beware the 2nd generation says to the knicks/nuggets fans to the lakers fans.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-18-2014, 04:13 PM
They're gonna get Love when he becomes a FA in 2015, pretty obvious.

Chronz
01-18-2014, 04:16 PM
Well, there might be some keepers. I like Wes Johnson, Jordan Farmar, Jordan Hill, and Xavier Henry. Those minimum salary guys are valuable and they would look real good if they were not relied upon to be the starters of a team like they have been this year. Young athletic and cheap. Bargain finding is only valuable after you have stars in place.
Simply not true. Morey inherited a team that couldn't win without the stars, he turned that team into a competitive squad with very little to work with even with the stars taking up all the cap space and none of the minutes. He would have lost his job if he had done as poor of a job of building around those stars as the Lakers brass had done. But because he was able to stay competitive whilst accumulating assets, he was able to turn those chips into a new core of star players.


Why would you think that? Just because Dwight left? Who else have the Lakers gone after and not gotten? If the Lakers really wanted Dwight, they would have had him. But seeing as how he is no longer what he once was, they did not feel the need to placate him. When Kobe was a free agent, the traded Shaq and let the best coach of all time walk away to keep Kobe. They wouldn't even hire the best coach of all time to keep Howard. Dwight said it himself. If they would have given him his coach, he would still be here. If there is a free agent out there worth it, the Lakers can go all out and have as good a pitch as anyone in the NBA.
Because the tides are turning, that the Lakers wouldn't hire the best coach (for Dwight or not) isn't a good harbinger for the future IMO. And Im looking at the free agents to come, I think its farfetched to assume those players would want to join a team thats in shambles. If the Lakers were treading .500 with boatloads of cap space coming and cheap players signed long term ala Houston, then I would feel differently. Nut to answer you're question, they have targeted future FA like Yao in the past, only to see him reup with his own team.


If they get one of these cant miss guys in the draft and sign one good free agent, they will have cap room and two good pieces to build around in two years when Kobe is done.

Whos that good free agent? If Kobe is done, doesn't that further damage their chances? Like if the Lakers remain a subpar team during Kobe's final days, and then they lose one of their best players in Kobe, why is that enticing?



I do remember hearing that the Lakers were in the beginning of the dark ages in 2005 as well. There was no hope in sight and people were loving it.
They had a top tier player in the prime of his career, hardly call that no hope in sight. I do recall saying they would waste 3 years of Kobes prime with the Shaq trade though, lo and behold I was right, Im getting the same feeling now.


Three years later, those voices were suddenly quite. I feel history always repeats itself.
Thats the kind of feeling Boston fans felt before the long waiting period. We'll see in a decade

THE MTL
01-18-2014, 04:43 PM
And he's right. Lakers fans be in denial doe.


Let's face it folks, the dark ages have come to the Lakers franchise, they will be bottom feeders for, well for most of the rest of our lives for all we know, the West is deep and it's hard to make your way back up into contention after you hit rock bottom.

Lakers have Kobe. And I don't care how old he might be. .... He's still Kobe and over the years he had proven countless times and what he's capable of. I'll never doubt that man.

JeffG20
01-18-2014, 04:53 PM
I'm not sure about that let's just say there would be something on his record to help balance out his mistakes.

I forget but what was the reason for blocking that trade again??? I can't remember...


when you're trying to sell a franchise... bad contracts like the ones they were getting were not going to entice anyone to take that on. a good young core to build on is much better then old guys on inflated contracts

LoveMeOrHateMe
01-18-2014, 05:32 PM
Lol at the laker haters thinking we will suck for more then just next season

FarOutIos
01-18-2014, 06:07 PM
As much as I hate the lakers and hope they suck for eternity... Let's be real. It's no coincidence that the lakers and celtics are having bad years with perhaps the best draft in a while upcoming. In sure they are going to "get lucky" and get a top 3 draft pick and draft Parker or wiggins.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 07:49 PM
As much as I hate the lakers and hope they suck for eternity... Let's be real. It's no coincidence that the lakers and celtics are having bad years with perhaps the best draft in a while upcoming. In sure they are going to "get lucky" and get a top 3 draft pick and draft Parker or wiggins.

I wish the Lakers were smart enough to do this as planned. But they got lucky with injuries. They would not be this bad if 6 of their top 7 players had not been injured for more than a month now. If not they would be stuck in 8th, 9th, 10th purgatory. But I hope your right about the top 3 pick.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-18-2014, 07:53 PM
Lol magic Is so critical of the lakers

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 08:22 PM
Chronz;27821311]Thats my point, they have lived off the no brainer type of decision that most markets dont get the luxury of. When it comes time to think, they aren't very good.

I am not disagreeing with that. Maybe they are worse at drafting late first rounders and late second rounders. Maybe the Rockets are good at it. My argument is does it really matter? Lakers have won 5 rings and been to the finals 7 times in the last 13 years all while throwing picks away and even giving up first rounders so that other teams would take their players (Vujacic). Rockets missed the playoffs by one seed 3 straight years and put themselves in purgatory by not bottoming out. They barely got the 8th seed last year and were one game from missing the playoffs again. They are now a 6th seed in the west. All the great bargain shopping has gotten them nothing.




Thats plenty along with a former MIP in the late 1st, undrafted guys like Hayes, when you look at the expected production levels, hes exceeded the threshold. Parsons is paid ridiculously cheap relative to his production. Budinger was very serviceable for his pick etc... so its more than 2.

But Hayes, and Budinger are just that. Serviceable. So are a bunch of other guys drafted that late. Morey didn't perform some miracle by taking them. Parsons is a stud no doubt. That was a great find.


From what I recall that was a McHale decision and when you're able to accumulate as many as 3 first rounders in a single draft, you can take more risks, yet another sign of a good GM.

Does McHale have that type of clout? He was a horrible GM in Minny. If Morey allowed that, that's on him.




Just like Mitch? Not at all, every GM has plenty of picks they would like to do over, that doesn't mean they are all equally inept/adept, looking at Moreys history hes FAR superior when it comes to finding diamonds in the rough. Parsons may very well be the greatest bargain for his production/cost ratio of this era. Dude is literally taking cut rate advertising to make up for his lost money. 4 year team option of fringe All-Star production at dirt cheap is more than just a good investment.

I don't want to make this into a Mitch vs Morey debate. That's not really what I am arguing. I am just saying that Morey may be off the charts better than Mitch but all he has to show for it is 3 missed playoffs, 3 first round exits, and one second round exit to Mitch's badly drafted Lakers. Smart drafting late in rounds is cute and all but it doesn't pay the bills.


False, they have been acquired through his ability to maintain a competitive team despite never getting the green light to tank. Without the combination of quality assets and competitive squads, he doesn't get these guys in the first place. Hell, Parsons was the biggest recruiter for Dwight.

The owners never gave the green light to tank? That's just silly.





Many others? Not seeing what you're talking about, the best way to build a team is maximize all available assets, the Lakers biggest asset has been brand recognition. Give them a GM like Morey, and the Lakers window for contention stays open alot longer IMO.

The Lakers window closes when their star players are over the hill or injured. Just like every other dynasty or great run, it has to end sometime. If Morey drafted like he did for the Rockets, the Lakers would still suck due to Kobe being old and hurt and Pau being slow and older. We might have one bright spot in Parsons but he would not be enough to change anything.





Players value that exceeds their contract.

The Lakers have a couple of those guys right now. If they were remotely healthy the guys I named earlier would be considered steals for the league minimum.



Actually, its when you are over the cap that bargain hunting becomes more valuable. Especially now that Kobe is taking up a large chunk of the cap space despite not being worth it from a competitive/production standpoint. You are going to need a way to offset that disadvantage, money ball players are the only way to do it now. Free agency or trade or bargain signings.

Like I said, if Kobe is not right the bargains you got would maybe take you to an 8th seed or the worst place you can be a 9th seed. I would prefer what we have now. Guys that we are not tied to that help us suck as much as possible. The Spurs have drafted great, but if Duncan goes down with Parker and Manu, all the other good young roll players would net you a crappy seed.


Yes players like that are prime examples, except for Artest, not a bargain at all. Now you have to ask yourself what brought in a GP/Malone and if that recipe can be replicated, and from where I stand, I dont see a Shaq type to recruit those guys so it puts pressure on management to actually do their due diligence.

I don't think they are thinking "we really got to get a solid producer with the 59th pick in the draft." I am pretty sure they are thinking "we need to get a cornerstone in this draft that other players will want to come and play with in the future." Those are the guys that this league is built around. The second tier fringe players are a dime a dozen. Stars make this league.


Im pretty sure that was Jim and that was a HUGE success. Can he pull another one of those moves?

It was Jim according to all reports. One of the few very good things he has done. I hope he can. And in this draft, I hope its not a big gamble.

shep33
01-18-2014, 08:25 PM
Outside of Dwight, we haven't had a chance to sign any big name players. Kind of thankful we didn't sign him to that 127 mill deal

I agree that Phil should come back for a Riley type role

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 08:58 PM
ChronzSimply not true. Morey inherited a team that couldn't win without the stars, he turned that team into a competitive squad with very little to work with even with the stars taking up all the cap space and none of the minutes. He would have lost his job if he had done as poor of a job of building around those stars as the Lakers brass had done. But because he was able to stay competitive whilst accumulating assets, he was able to turn those chips into a new core of star players.

Stay competitive? When he inherited them they were winning 53 to 55 games. They trended down for 4 years.



Because the tides are turning, that the Lakers wouldn't hire the best coach (for Dwight or not) isn't a good harbinger for the future IMO. And Im looking at the free agents to come, I think its farfetched to assume those players would want to join a team thats in shambles. If the Lakers were treading .500 with boatloads of cap space coming and cheap players signed long term ala Houston, then I would feel differently. Nut to answer you're question, they have targeted future FA like Yao in the past, only to see him reup with his own team.

You don't think Kevin Love is itching to come to L.A? That's the word going around the NBA right now. That's all you need. With whoever they draft this year, plus Kobe, plus Love you are looking at a good team in2 years. Next year might not be good but we have a pick as long as it is top 5. I don't want them to sign anyone this summer. Especially Mello. Then when Kobe retires, you may have a very good young star, Kevin love, and boatloads of cap space. You don't think that is enticing to free agents like Durant or super Laker fan Westbrook? I do. One down year does not "turn the tides"

All you need is one star to turn everything around or one good young player that shows promise. That brings other players to you. The Clippers are still ran by the worst owner in all of sports. But they had a no brainer fall in their laps in Griffin. He showed promise and allowed CP3 to see the Clippers as a viable destination. I am hoping that a no brainer falls in the Lakers laps and he is that gravitation pull to other players.




Whos that good free agent? If Kobe is done, doesn't that further damage their chances? Like if the Lakers remain a subpar team during Kobe's final days, and then they lose one of their best players in Kobe, why is that enticing?

Not Mello. Kevin Love. Kobe at this age is a hindrance when it comes to signing players. The Heat had D Wade and they sucked for a couple seasons. Didn't stop Lebron and Bosh from joining him down there. Nice weather, a good player and loads of cap space were enough to get them. Sounds like a scenario the Lakers might have.




They had a top tier player in the prime of his career, hardly call that no hope in sight. I do recall saying they would waste 3 years of Kobes prime with the Shaq trade though, lo and behold I was right, Im getting the same feeling now.

I have the same 3 year feeling. Which is not bad at all for what they have done the past decade plus. As a fan, I will gladly still support them during the down time due to all that they did while winning.



Thats the kind of feeling Boston fans felt before the long waiting period. We'll see in a decade

Boston is not L.A. I don't think its even close. Miami, Dallas, Orlando and other teams in the south are more of a hot spot for NBA players than Boston is. I don't think NBA players really care that the Lakers won a bunch of rings in the 50's or that Boston did in the 60's. Now a days, it about the prestige and the lifestyle. The glitz and glamour. There is a reason that Lebron and Bosh went to South Beach instead of Wade going to Cleveland. Los Angeles and Miami are two of the best cities a NBA player can play in. What is it today? 84 degrees? In January? I watch the news cast from around the US and see warm water being thrown out of a cup and freezing before it hits the ground and I shake my head wondering why anyone would live in that. The Lakers have an advantage that no other team does.

There was never a point in anytime that the Lakers would have been even able to offer Yao a contract for more than the mid-level. Him or any free agent for that matter. So that report is absolutely false.

JWorthy42
01-19-2014, 06:13 PM
All of this Lakers hate is hilarious. Especially from irrelevant Clippers fans.

KnicksorBust
01-19-2014, 06:16 PM
Lakers have been loaded with stars for a long time. The idea that they cant attract FAs is bs.

Pierre The Poet
01-22-2014, 04:06 AM
No offense to Magic, but he doesn't know anything about anything when it comes to the Lakers.

Buss sucks yeah, but Magic is clueless

One of the greatest NBA players ever, one of the greatest Lakers ever if not the greatest, the guy who once had some ownership in the team, the guy that was like a son to Jerry Buss, knows Jim Buss and Jeanie Buss, has a great relationship with Mitch Kupchack who he played with, knows Kobe Bryant personally, has 5 championship rings...sometimes people on PSD are so strange...he's clueless? but you come and give your opinion like you're an expert? pshh

TrueFan420
01-22-2014, 04:11 AM
All of this Lakers hate is hilarious. Especially from irrelevant Clippers fans.

Is Magic Johnson an irrelevant Clippers fan too?

shep33
01-22-2014, 04:29 AM
One of the greatest NBA players ever, one of the greatest Lakers ever if not the greatest, the guy who once had some ownership in the team, the guy that was like a son to Jerry Buss, knows Jim Buss and Jeanie Buss, has a great relationship with Mitch Kupchack who he played with, knows Kobe Bryant personally, has 5 championship rings...sometimes people on PSD are so strange...he's clueless? but you come and give your opinion like you're an expert? pshh

Sweet, he knows people on the team and in the front office. I guess that makes him an expert in forecasting the future.

I'm not saying Magic is wrong with what he said, he's absolutely right about Jim. That being said, to imply that free agents aren't attracted to play in LA for max money is ridiculous. Every player has a price if the situation suits them.

The Clippers were able to bring in top tier talent and some nice free agents with a ridiculous owner. Who exactly did we miss on in free agency in the past? Dwight? The dude is good, but not 118 mill good.

Truth is if you put the right team together and have the right foundation, players will come. We destroyed our chance at contending years ago when the Lakers FO signed players to ridiculous contracts. Fisher, Walton, Pau, Artest, Bynum, Kobe etc. We spent way too much money on trying to keep and older team together.

Now to basically say that free agents don't want to come here, is an opinion with little merit. I love Magic, he's the greatest Laker of all-time, but I think he's pushing it here.

numba1CHANGsta
01-22-2014, 04:35 AM
Us real Laker fans knew this for a while, none of us want Jim Buss running this organization. Tanking has nothing to do with it, Lakers missed the playoffs in 04-05 and made it back to the Finals 3 years later. This team will be fine once Jim gets help like a Phil Jackson. Mitch-Jim is not so attractive than a West-Jerry was, Shaq came because of those two, no one cares for Mitch nor Jim, get Phil involved and players will come and better coaches as well

TrueFan420
01-22-2014, 04:37 AM
Sweet, he knows people on the team and in the front office. I guess that makes him an expert in forecasting the future.

I'm not saying Magic is wrong with what he said, he's absolutely right about Jim. That being said, to imply that free agents aren't attracted to play in LA for max money is ridiculous. Every player has a price if the situation suits them.

The Clippers were able to bring in top tier talent and some nice free agents with a ridiculous owner.

People went to the clipper cause Paul, Blake and now doc. People are not going to la for Kobe making a max after missing even more time and a shat coach. Yes money talks but the superstars want rings and if Kobe wants be Kobe but can't cause of injuries and age but won't defer they won't go. Magic might not be able to predict the future but he has more insight into this than anyone on here. Also I'm sure more players would be willing to be open about that to magic than a normal journalist seeing as he's a former player and many grew up idolizing him.

TrueFan420
01-22-2014, 04:39 AM
Us real Laker fans knew this for a while, none of us want Jim Buss running this organization. Tanking has nothing to do with it, Lakers missed the playoffs in 04-05 and made it back to the Finals 3 years later. This team will be fine once Jim gets help like a Phil Jackson. Mitch-Jim is not so attractive than a West-Jerry was, Shaq came because of those two, no one cares for Mitch nor Jim, get Phil involved and players will come and better coaches as well

Haven't people said his ego won't allow for him to take help from someone like Phil who will receive the credit instead of buss.

shep33
01-22-2014, 04:44 AM
People went to the clipper cause Paul, Blake and now doc. People are not going to la for Kobe making a max after missing even more time and a shat coach. Yes money talks but the superstars want rings and if Kobe wants be Kobe but can't cause of injuries and age but won't defer they won't go. Magic might not be able to predict the future but he has more insight into this than anyone on here. Also I'm sure more players would be willing to be open about that to magic than a normal journalist seeing as he's a former player and many grew up idolizing him.


Realistically, there are no free agents to go after this summer unless its Bron, who will likely stay in Miami. We won't find out the answer to this question until 2015 or 2016 in reality.

numba1CHANGsta
01-22-2014, 04:45 AM
Haven't people said his ego won't allow for him to take help from someone like Phil who will receive the credit instead of buss.

Riley got the credit, no one gave it to the owner, who cares who gets credit, your goal as an owner is to win. Jim needs to grow up bottom line

TrueFan420
01-22-2014, 04:47 AM
Realistically, there are no free agents to go after this summer unless its Bron, who will likely stay in Miami. We won't find out the answer to this question until 2015 or 2016 in reality.

When's Kobe's deal end again? Cause honestly I don't see any top players signing with la while he's there.

TrueFan420
01-22-2014, 04:51 AM
Riley got the credit, no one gave it to the owner, who cares who gets credit, your goal as an owner is to win. Jim needs to grow up bottom line

I agree it shouldn't matter who gets the credit as long as your team is winning. But buss got love too altho the majority went to Riley. The thing is were not talking about you or me. Were talking about a guy with a big ego who wants the credit. It's gonna be an issue that needs to be addressed for the lakers to move forward.

shep33
01-22-2014, 04:53 AM
When's Kobe's deal end again? Cause honestly I don't see any top players signing with la while he's there.

2016. It was a stupid contract to give out, but this free agency pool is overrated. Maybe Melo is the best player? But signing him at age 30 for 88 mill is ridiculous.

2015 there is Love, 2016 is where superstar players come into play. Which is when Kobe's deal is up.

No player/players would have made us into a contender in 2014 or 2015 unless it were LBJ, and that ain't happening.

Depends a lot on how this season goes. If we are bad enough to get a top 6-7 pick, we're in a great spot. One of Wiggins, Randle, Parker, Smart, Embiid, Gordon, Exum, etc. would be amazing to have on our squad going forward. Add in future guys in 2015 and 2016 and the Lakers will be fine in terms of rebuilding

numba1CHANGsta
01-22-2014, 05:12 AM
I agree it shouldn't matter who gets the credit as long as your team is winning. But buss got love too altho the majority went to Riley. The thing is were not talking about you or me. Were talking about a guy with a big ego who wants the credit. It's gonna be an issue that needs to be addressed for the lakers to move forward.

Yeah thats why I said he needs to grow up, he's been an owner for like what 2-3 years? IMO he's trying too hard to be as successful as his father, but his father was a smart businessman. Things will change, just depends when. Unless the Lakers want to go through the route the Spurs have which is build your franchise through the draft.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 09:58 AM
[/I]

I don't think any "big name" free agent has signed with the Celtics ever, not likely to happen either.
Not for the reasons mentioned above, but the fact that Boston is a booring cold city.

Most players seem to prioritise attractive citys i.e NY or LA over team situation.I think the lakers are gonna do fine regardless of the current situation when it comes to signing free agents.

so you're telling me that, if you're an all-star FA, you would rather sign with the current LA vs signing with a team that's one star away from contending? great career decision.

players are judge in history based on how well they played and how well their team does...how attractive the city they played in is plays no part in how players are judged.

Iron24th
01-22-2014, 10:15 AM
Lakers have been relevant since you were floating in a sack doe.

It's obvious you still fear the lakers, even when we're in tank mode.

I agree with Man Ram, I always think about all the FA's we can get, Love, KD, Westbrook, Lebron, Melo (even tho I don't want him). We do exaggerate at times, but I do feel players would love to play for us, at least more than 75% of other teams.

No way in hell lakers will be bottom feeders for the rest of our lives tho, unless you're expecting death soon lmao.

+1

lol this guy is clueless, we'll suck some years here and there, but we'll be back to contention before the decade is over.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 10:29 AM
Lakers have been relevant since you were floating in a sack doe.

It's obvious you still fear the lakers, even when we're in tank mode.

I agree with Man Ram, I always think about all the FA's we can get, Love, KD, Westbrook, Lebron, Melo (even tho I don't want him). We do exaggerate at times, but I do feel players would love to play for us, at least more than 75% of other teams.

No way in hell lakers will be bottom feeders for the rest of our lives tho, unless you're expecting death soon lmao.

Love and Melo...i give you cause they're on bad teams and will be looking for a better situation. being mediocre with an over the hill Kobe in LA is better than being mediocre in minnesota or being stuck with Woodson and JR Smith.

but KD, Westbrook, and Lebron? C'mon now. they're in good situations. their teams are contending for the championship. why would they leave that situation and waste their valuable, limited prime years either playing 2nd fiddle to an over the hill star to have an over the hill star as the team's 2nd best option?

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 11:24 AM
Damn shame to see Jimmy running the team into the ground. Laker fans saw this coming starting with his undying loyalty to his guy Bynum and then just increasingly bad decisions.

We were able to still get chips out of it off the strength of Kobe, Pau at high levels and a good cast but he gave no thought to the future. We should've been grooming more young players during those runs in prep for these days.

The only good thing is Phil is still very much still attached to the team. At a certain point Jimmy will have to swallow his pride and bring him on, at the very least as a consultant....

Pierre The Poet
01-22-2014, 01:52 PM
Sweet, he knows people on the team and in the front office. I guess that makes him an expert in forecasting the future.

I'm not saying Magic is wrong with what he said, he's absolutely right about Jim. That being said, to imply that free agents aren't attracted to play in LA for max money is ridiculous. Every player has a price if the situation suits them.

The Clippers were able to bring in top tier talent and some nice free agents with a ridiculous owner. Who exactly did we miss on in free agency in the past? Dwight? The dude is good, but not 118 mill good.

Truth is if you put the right team together and have the right foundation, players will come. We destroyed our chance at contending years ago when the Lakers FO signed players to ridiculous contracts. Fisher, Walton, Pau, Artest, Bynum, Kobe etc. We spent way too much money on trying to keep and older team together.

Now to basically say that free agents don't want to come here, is an opinion with little merit. I love Magic, he's the greatest Laker of all-time, but I think he's pushing it here.

I was only addressing that you called him "clueless". Maybe he's not an expert, but he certainly isn't clueless. He's knows the NBA better than any of us

Pierre The Poet
01-22-2014, 01:53 PM
Love and Melo...i give you cause they're on bad teams and will be looking for a better situation. being mediocre with an over the hill Kobe in LA is better than being mediocre in minnesota or being stuck with Woodson and JR Smith.

but KD, Westbrook, and Lebron? C'mon now. they're in good situations. their teams are contending for the championship. why would they leave that situation and waste their valuable, limited prime years either playing 2nd fiddle to an over the hill star to have an over the hill star as the team's 2nd best option?

Because an "over the hill" Kobe, is still pretty much better than the majority of the all stars in the league

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 02:58 PM
Because an "over the hill" Kobe, is still pretty much better than the majority of the all stars in the league

i would agree with you if the over the hill Kobe admits that he has declined, accepts a lesser role, and defers to whichever star the Lakers get. the problem is, Kobe is going through the "Iverson syndrom" where, while he's still good, refuses to accept a lesser role thus hurting his team in the process.

Pierre The Poet
01-22-2014, 04:07 PM
i would agree with you if the over the hill Kobe admits that he has declined, accepts a lesser role, and defers to whichever star the Lakers get. the problem is, Kobe is going through the "Iverson syndrom" where, while he's still good, refuses to accept a lesser role thus hurting his team in the process.

Well, it's different because Iverson was hardly a starting NBA player when he felt that way. Last season Kobe was still one of the better players in the league. And secondly, I always say if you give Kobe a player that he could play second fiddle to then he'd do it. But don't give him a Dwight Howard that got stripped in the post on every position and missed free throws in crunchtime and had no go to moves at all and say "Kobe, take a lesser role" Now if you put Chris Paul or KD or somebody on the team, I'm sure he'd do just fine. He'd prefer it. All he wants to do is score. He doesnt wanna be dribbling and facilitating and all that other stuff.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 07:35 PM
Well, it's different because Iverson was hardly a starting NBA player when he felt that way. Last season Kobe was still one of the better players in the league. And secondly, I always say if you give Kobe a player that he could play second fiddle to then he'd do it. But don't give him a Dwight Howard that got stripped in the post on every position and missed free throws in crunchtime and had no go to moves at all and say "Kobe, take a lesser role" Now if you put Chris Paul or KD or somebody on the team, I'm sure he'd do just fine. He'd prefer it. All he wants to do is score. He doesnt wanna be dribbling and facilitating and all that other stuff.

that mentality is what makes it hard to fit another superstar next to him. if you get an superstar PG like CP3, it's fine. its natural for PGs, regardless of how good of a scorer they are, to balance between scoring and passing/facilitating. but of the two stars that the Lakers could realistically get, Carmelo and Love, that mentality is going to make it hard for him and the other star to coexist. Kobe is going to get his no matter what. we all know that. but with his decline, he's not going to be as efficient while getting his. the other stars who's trying to get their's too isnt going to like Kobe getting his but not doing it as well as them.

regardless of who the other star is...and whether Kobe "respects" them or not...he has to play second fiddle to make it work chemistry wise. if not, Kobe's "'i'm gonna get mine" attitude/ego is going to hurt the team's chance of winning.

Pierre The Poet
01-22-2014, 09:54 PM
that mentality is what makes it hard to fit another superstar next to him. if you get an superstar PG like CP3, it's fine. its natural for PGs, regardless of how good of a scorer they are, to balance between scoring and passing/facilitating. but of the two stars that the Lakers could realistically get, Carmelo and Love, that mentality is going to make it hard for him and the other star to coexist. Kobe is going to get his no matter what. we all know that. but with his decline, he's not going to be as efficient while getting his. the other stars who's trying to get their's too isnt going to like Kobe getting his but not doing it as well as them.

regardless of who the other star is...and whether Kobe "respects" them or not...he has to play second fiddle to make it work chemistry wise. if not, Kobe's "'i'm gonna get mine" attitude/ego is going to hurt the team's chance of winning.

He played with Carmelo and Love in the Olympics and they looked great together.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 10:01 PM
He played with Carmelo and Love in the Olympics and they looked great together.

a lot of stars played together in the Olympics and were fine together. but for some reason, that doesn't translate to the NBA. despite playing in the Olympics together, it took wade, lebron, and bosh a whole season to gel....and that's with all 3 players willing to sacrifice their game and stats for the team.

Chronz
01-23-2014, 04:36 PM
I am not disagreeing with that. Maybe they are worse at drafting late first rounders and late second rounders. Maybe the Rockets are good at it. My argument is does it really matter?
Well if you're not disagreeing then I dont see how this thing started. But IMO yes it matters, and its because of the reality of their current situation.


Lakers have won 5 rings and been to the finals 7 times in the last 13 years all while throwing picks away and even giving up first rounders so that other teams would take their players (Vujacic). Rockets missed the playoffs by one seed 3 straight years and put themselves in purgatory by not bottoming out. They barely got the 8th seed last year and were one game from missing the playoffs again. They are now a 6th seed in the west. All the great bargain shopping has gotten them nothing.
Its gotten them 2 All-NBA players when they had none before. That it has been accomplished without the greenlight to tank is why they needed a proficient GM to get the job done. Lakers past accomplishments came in a different CBA and current core. This is the first time we've ever seen them with a bare cupboard and an aging star.




But Hayes, and Budinger are just that. Serviceable. So are a bunch of other guys drafted that late. Morey didn't perform some miracle by taking them. Parsons is a stud no doubt. That was a great find.
Not really, most guys drafted that late dont even stick in the league. I dont have the time right now but you really should look at the expected productive value of a pick that late and where Morey stands. Let me put it this way, Morey has been able to consistently shuffle players in and out with late picks, whereas a poor drafting GM like David Kahn had to shell out MLE money for a guy like Budinger.



Does McHale have that type of clout? He was a horrible GM in Minny. If Morey allowed that, that's on him.
McHale's hire has been his greatest mistake, but he is a players coach and was respected as such. I dont think he has much clout now. Either way, when you have 3 picks in the same round, you get to take more risks because your genius was what allowed you to get them for free.


I don't want to make this into a Mitch vs Morey debate. That's not really what I am arguing. I am just saying that Morey may be off the charts better than Mitch but all he has to show for it is 3 missed playoffs, 3 first round exits, and one second round exit to Mitch's badly drafted Lakers. Smart drafting late in rounds is cute and all but it doesn't pay the bills.
Thats why I dont rank GM's by blind glances at success given that what they inherit in terms of roster stability and market desirability being so different. A GM like Morey would have kept LA's window open longer IMO, dating all the way back to the Shaq days. Mitch inherited a championship core and watched it degrade, whereas Morey inherited a similar star driven team that couldn't win without the stars and turned it into a championship caliber supporting cast, shame the stars degraded. Still, those cast offs were able to push the Lakers to 7, imagine if Tmac+Yao never broke down.


The owners never gave the green light to tank? That's just silly.
I agree that its silly, doesn't change the fact that its true.



The Lakers window closes when their star players are over the hill or injured. Just like every other dynasty or great run, it has to end sometime. If Morey drafted like he did for the Rockets, the Lakers would still suck due to Kobe being old and hurt and Pau being slow and older. We might have one bright spot in Parsons but he would not be enough to change anything.
Not IMO, Morey would've kept the Lakers humming even into that stage ala the Spurs with their degrading trio. Maybe it doesn't change anything, but their chances definitely improve with a GM who can maximize their assets as opposed to relying on brand recognition.


The Lakers have a couple of those guys right now. If they were remotely healthy the guys I named earlier would be considered steals for the league minimum.
Yea I dont see the same level of success, especially considering how awful the Lakers are this year.



Like I said, if Kobe is not right the bargains you got would maybe take you to an 8th seed or the worst place you can be a 9th seed.
Agreed. The Lakers as currently constructed should have never been expected to compete, I know thats the message the front office sent but they really had a piss poor off season and it was obvious they were going to struggle.


I would prefer what we have now. Guys that we are not tied to that help us suck as much as possible. The Spurs have drafted great, but if Duncan goes down with Parker and Manu, all the other good young roll players would net you a crappy seed.
Are you injuring 3 players? The Spurs are exactly what great management does, continuously surround their core pieces with overachievers.


I don't think they are thinking "we really got to get a solid producer with the 59th pick in the draft." I am pretty sure they are thinking "we need to get a cornerstone in this draft that other players will want to come and play with in the future." Those are the guys that this league is built around. The second tier fringe players are a dime a dozen. Stars make this league.

Yeah, the kind of thinking that any GM can do. What Im saying is once you get past that initial stage, its best to have a GM with some kind of thinking power, to support those cornerstones. Particularly with the reality that is Kobe's contract.

Chronz
01-23-2014, 05:44 PM
Stay competitive? When he inherited them they were winning 53 to 55 games. They trended down for 4 years.
Context is important here. They won that much with Tmac and Yao + cast offs. Whenever Tmac wasn't in the game, the Rockets were unable to even compete, Tmac was the vital to the team. You take him off and you have a completely rudderless team, Morey turned that crew into a unit that could take the champion Lakers to 7 games without him. It continued to degrade as Yao joined Tmac on the sidelines, yet through it all, the team was competitive.


You don't think Kevin Love is itching to come to L.A? That's the word going around the NBA right now. That's all you need. With whoever they draft this year, plus Kobe, plus Love you are looking at a good team in2 years.
You say + Kobe as if you have him for much longer. By the time Love reaches Free Agency, Kobe will have what, 1 year left on his contract? Then you hope the draft works out this year because Im pretty sure the Lakers made the genius decision to surrender their pick next year for a +40 year old PG. So basically you guys have to do the whole 1 year contract thing for 1 more season and wait for Love to come in FA.

So next year you guys are likely to suck again, Kobe gets to play with 19 year old or however old the new prospect is and then get Love in 2015-2016. I dont think thats a playoff contender yet unless the rook blows up.



Next year might not be good but we have a pick as long as it is top 5. I don't want them to sign anyone this summer. Especially Mello. Then when Kobe retires, you may have a very good young star, Kevin love, and boatloads of cap space. You don't think that is enticing to free agents like Durant or super Laker fan Westbrook? I do. One down year does not "turn the tides"
That's prolly right, but a 4 year waiting period (counting this year) followed by the hope of being able to surround those pieces with enough support to win big is pretty bad, I didn't even feel the future being so bleak back when they lost Shaq, prolly because they had actual players and not the promise of cap space.


All you need is one star to turn everything around or one good young player that shows promise. That brings other players to you. The Clippers are still ran by the worst owner in all of sports. But they had a no brainer fall in their laps in Griffin. He showed promise and allowed CP3 to see the Clippers as a viable destination. I am hoping that a no brainer falls in the Lakers laps and he is that gravitation pull to other players.
Yea, and god do I wish we had a GM with actual thinking power once we got Blake.




Not Mello. Kevin Love. Kobe at this age is a hindrance when it comes to signing players. The Heat had D Wade and they sucked for a couple seasons. Didn't stop Lebron and Bosh from joining him down there. Nice weather, a good player and loads of cap space were enough to get them. Sounds like a scenario the Lakers might have.

But Wade was there, closer to his prime, and the team brought in Bosh to appease Bron. And that still took a year to build around. But yes, I see your point. I never denied this was the Laker way. We'll see how it gos .



Boston is not L.A. I don't think its even close. Miami, Dallas, Orlando and other teams in the south are more of a hot spot for NBA players than Boston is. I don't think NBA players really care that the Lakers won a bunch of rings in the 50's or that Boston did in the 60's. Now a days, it about the prestige and the lifestyle. The glitz and glamour. There is a reason that Lebron and Bosh went to South Beach instead of Wade going to Cleveland. Los Angeles and Miami are two of the best cities a NBA player can play in. What is it today? 84 degrees? In January? I watch the news cast from around the US and see warm water being thrown out of a cup and freezing before it hits the ground and I shake my head wondering why anyone would live in that. The Lakers have an advantage that no other team does.
Amen


There was never a point in anytime that the Lakers would have been even able to offer Yao a contract for more than the mid-level. Him or any free agent for that matter. So that report is absolutely false.
It was when Yao was approaching FA within 2 years or so, and the Lakers were going to manage their cap to be able to bring him on board, then Yao resigned and plans changed. It was a rumor from a long time ago tho and not really of any importance either way. LA will attract some one, I just dont think they can build a winner around the stars given their inadequacies outside the no brainer decisions. I could be wrong, we'll see in year 5 when I bump this

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-23-2014, 06:21 PM
Good stuff Chronz, always a pleasure.

todu82
01-24-2014, 01:22 AM
Meh, it's the Lakers. Dysfunction may hurt them now but I got to think that as time goes on with their money and their history they'll attract quality players no problems.