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ghettosean
01-17-2014, 02:30 PM
I'm not a D12 hater but I think I'm just saying it how it is.... I just think he should be embarrassed for not having any new offensive moves after working with some of the greatest offensive big men ever in Kareem (agreeably the best player of all time), Hakeem (one of the top C's of all time), McHale on of the best big men of all time and Pau Gasol probably the best offensive talent for a big before DMC this season. The guy has the body he has the skills but I just don't think he has the heart of mentality to become a great player and be mentioned in the same sentence with any of the above.

On top of that his leadership skills are horrid at best as I don't see the huge lift on team defense like there should be... Insert Tyson Chandler on the Rockets team and you will see a huge improvement. I saw Durant blow by D12 a few times and dunk on him and Dwight just put his hands up like I don't want any of that!?!?!

Does anyone still think of this guy as the best big man in the league? Anyone agree or disagree with what I wrote above?

Discuss!

D-Leethal
01-17-2014, 02:32 PM
Dwight is weird - I always thought he had the drive and work ethic to be one of the greats. Not saying he doesn't, because I have no idea, and the guy obviously works his *** off to stay chiseled, but it sure doesn't show through improved play or yearly additions to his repertoire.

2-ONE-5
01-17-2014, 02:34 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

5ass
01-17-2014, 02:43 PM
Not the best big man no. What about love?

Max.This
01-17-2014, 02:43 PM
tyson is too injury prone

BCpatsox18
01-17-2014, 02:49 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

As much as i hate to say it….. Demarcus Cousins has been the best this year

Bruno
01-17-2014, 02:53 PM
in all fairness to dwight he's improved since last season and he's made some respectable changes to his diet which have had a positive impact on his game.

Supreme LA
01-17-2014, 02:53 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

You couldn't be more wrong.

ghettosean
01-17-2014, 02:54 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

nickdymez
01-17-2014, 02:57 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

Dont be one of these guys who just say things. Dwight is not by far the best big man in the league.

DreamShaker
01-17-2014, 03:02 PM
He has really great footwork, but has very little touch at times. Also not very creative on the fly. There are some games where he is dominating in the post, some games where it just looks like he's not that interested in exerting too much effort. He has been lazy on defense in stretches this year. It is frustrating to watch. There was one play where Chandler Parsons stole his rebound, so he stood there and yelled at him while a guy from the other team just dunked it. Dwight did nothing to try to stop it. Nothing. Stuff like that drives me crazy. This Rockets team needs more leadership. It's disturbing how much they coast, even in wins.

DreamShaker
01-17-2014, 03:06 PM
As far as if he's the best big man, he is when he wants to be. That game where he spanked Drummond was a good example. If he had that kind of energy and drive on a nightly basis, he would be. He had a really good stretch in December where he was just killing folks. Then he just decided to coast. He is, and always has been, one of the biggest enigmas in the NBA.

bringbackfredex
01-17-2014, 03:07 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

Love is a much more complete player than Howard, as a matter of fact the only thing that Howard has even done better statistically this year is block shots. FG% you can't count since Love also plays from the perimeter.

Love: 25.6 PPG, 13.0 RPG, 0.4 BLK, 4.0 AST, 2.5 3PM, .814 FT%
Howard: 17.9 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 1.8 BLK, 1.8 AST, .532 FT%

I don't understand how that makes Howard better by a "good margin" or even better at all. Love is ridiculously underrated and Howard is ridiculously overrated, if anything I could make a case that Cousins is going to be better than Howard at this point as well.

Teeboy1487
01-17-2014, 03:09 PM
His dominance has been missing since the back surgery.

LeGacy is Music
01-17-2014, 03:13 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

+1 and I am a knick fan

Raps18-19 Champ
01-17-2014, 03:20 PM
Was he even the best big man in the league before? I haven't looked at it deep enough but guys like Duncan, Dirk, etc probably have been in the conversation for the top big man spot the past 8 years or so.

Even if he was, He should've been embarrassed with himself even when he was the best big man in the league.

Jazzgear
01-17-2014, 03:27 PM
he is still the best big man in the game by a good margin.

one the dunks KD has last night there was no need for Howard to up after KD was mid flight. its not like Howard was right there and moved out of the way. Its also laughable to think Chandler makes the Rockets better than Dwight

Dwight Howard is the best defensive big man by a small margin. However, he is not and never has been the best offensive big man. IMO, DMC has surpassed Howard as the best Center. I'd even take Hibbert over him too.

COOLbeans
01-17-2014, 03:30 PM
Rockets fans on psd will disagree with the premise of this thread despite all rational critisicms.

Jazzgear
01-17-2014, 03:31 PM
He has really great footwork, but has very little touch at times. Also not very creative on the fly. There are some games where he is dominating in the post, some games where it just looks like he's not that interested in exerting too much effort. He has been lazy on defense in stretches this year. It is frustrating to watch. There was one play where Chandler Parsons stole his rebound, so he stood there and yelled at him while a guy from the other team just dunked it. Dwight did nothing to try to stop it. Nothing. Stuff like that drives me crazy. This Rockets team needs more leadership. It's disturbing how much they coast, even in wins.

One alarming flaw I noticed from Howard while he was on the Lakers is the pair of stone hands he has.....ala Kwame Brown.

PraiseJesus
01-17-2014, 03:48 PM
Dwight is a #3 or #2 player AT BEST on a championship team.

The problem is that he refuses to be anything but a #1... he should also be a defensive specialist because his offensive skills are a joke. He looks like an overgrown 10 year old with his terrible coordination

In my opinion he tries too hard to be 'funny' and doesnt try hard enough to be a complete team player.

On top of it all, he is an angry and shallow person. He has no respect for the greats before him, ZERO.

He stole Shaqs nickname and schtick with Superman, he blew off Kareem, he doesnt seems to learn anything from Hakeem or Mchale...

Ive caught some of his tweets and comments that are very hateful towards fans or other players

The bottomline is he is very selfish, unfunny, and not a team player.

The way that he pouted like a little baby and sabotaged the Lakers by clearly not trying was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen from a professional athlete.

Dwight should be the most hated player in the NBA. He is a joke

birdmann5
01-17-2014, 03:49 PM
I take Anthony Davis over D12. Love, Hibbert, Lopez, Horford, etc... D12 is extremely over rated. Defensively he's still top 3. All around player, no way.

smith&wesson
01-17-2014, 03:57 PM
Give me hibbert or cousins over him.

BenFrank
01-17-2014, 04:02 PM
People watch one bad game on national tv, and ignore everything he's done in the last month.. it's called a knee-jerk reaction.. I must say his defense has regressed and I think it's because of McHale.. he don't bring that tuffness that a team needs to go far in the playoffs

JeremiahWing
01-17-2014, 04:04 PM
Dwight Howard, as I've said before, is the single most overrated player of the generation. A man of that physical stature and athleticism should be ashamed for not improving his game.

At this point, give me DMC, Hibbert, or M Gasol before him.

KingPosey
01-17-2014, 04:17 PM
It's not his offensive game that has stood out to me as bad lately, it's his rebounding. Has anyone paid attention to how bad it's been for HIM lately?

ghettosean
01-17-2014, 04:53 PM
People watch one bad game on national tv, and ignore everything he's done in the last month.. it's called a knee-jerk reaction.. I must say his defense has regressed and I think it's because of McHale.. he don't bring that tuffness that a team needs to go far in the playoffs

Just I wanted to start this thread 3 days ago but I've just been tied up and it kept slipping my mind until I saw yesterdays game that is not why I started the thread though it was started because he just hasn't improved his offensive repertoire at all since he's been in the league and he's been tutored by some of the all time greats. I just don't get it!?!?

lol, please
01-17-2014, 05:04 PM
I'm not a D12 hater but I think I'm just saying it how it is.... I just think he should be embarrassed for not having any new offensive moves after working with some of the greatest offensive big men ever in Kareem (agreeably the best player of all time), Hakeem (one of the top C's of all time), McHale on of the best big men of all time and Pau Gasol probably the best offensive talent for a big before DMC this season. The guy has the body he has the skills but I just don't think he has the heart of mentality to become a great player and be mentioned in the same sentence with any of the above.

On top of that his leadership skills are horrid at best as I don't see the huge lift on team defense like there should be... Insert Tyson Chandler on the Rockets team and you will see a huge improvement. I saw Durant blow by D12 a few times and dunk on him and Dwight just put his hands up like I don't want any of that!?!?!

Does anyone still think of this guy as the best big man in the league? Anyone agree or disagree with what I wrote above?

Discuss!

I would take Bogut over him.

FriedTofuz
01-17-2014, 05:07 PM
Kevin Love is the best big man in the league, better than DMC, better than Howard as well.

Chronz
01-17-2014, 05:08 PM
Athleticism isnt the same, dat simple

ManRam
01-17-2014, 05:39 PM
He's clearly not what he once was. He's playing better than last year for sure though. Doubt he ever gets back to Orlando levels. It's still most obviously seen on defense where he doesn't quite cover as much ground nor does he contest nearly as many shots. That's not effort, at least from what I've seen. And since so much of his offensive game was predicated on athleticism, him not having as much of that clearly is causing a ton of problems. He made adjustments later on in his Orlando career and did viably because a more skilled offensive player. It's hard to see those gains any more, but maybe there's a chance he can adapt and evolve a little bit. Because right now, regardless of what his FG% is, he's not as good of an offensive player as he should be.

He was never overrated, though. Post-injury he fell off, plain and simple. But what he did in LAL doesn't mean anything in regards to his value before hand. Him playing poorly there doesn't mean he was always overrated. And before that, he was arguably the second most valuable player in the league for at least some stretch of time

2-ONE-5
01-17-2014, 05:46 PM
funny everyones hating on Dwight but the dude leads winning team/contenders year in year out almost every year of his career. He stepped up big time down the strech last year when Kobe went down too. When Cousins good play leads to his team winning then you can talk bcuz he does enough negative stuff to negate being the best, same goes for Love when he leads a team to even a playoff berth then talk.

Hibbert? get real. Horford? not even close.

Dwight with "no offensive game" is still better then all these guys you are listing

John Walls Era
01-17-2014, 05:49 PM
:yawn: I've been saying it since the beginning of the year. Thanks or joining me in reality while others are still in dreamland. This is the norm though; I figure something out and the masses only begin to learn about it months (years) later.

John Walls Era
01-17-2014, 05:51 PM
Kevin Love is the best big man in the league, better than DMC, better than Howard as well.

How has Love been playing since he called out his teammates? I'm sorry but hes the same mold as Dwight. Great teams stop him easily too. Love was getting embarrassed by Matt Bonner...

John Walls Era
01-17-2014, 05:51 PM
He's clearly not what he once was. He's playing better than last year for sure though. Doubt he ever gets back to Orlando levels. It's still most obviously seen on defense where he doesn't quite cover as much ground nor does he contest nearly as many shots. That's not effort, at least from what I've seen. And since so much of his offensive game was predicated on athleticism, him not having as much of that clearly is causing a ton of problems. He made adjustments later on in his Orlando career and did viably because a more skilled offensive player. It's hard to see those gains any more, but maybe there's a chance he can adapt and evolve a little bit. Because right now, regardless of what his FG% is, he's not as good of an offensive player as he should be.

He was never overrated, though. Post-injury he fell off, plain and simple. But what he did in LAL doesn't mean anything in regards to his value before hand. Him playing poorly there doesn't mean he was always overrated. And before that, he was arguably the second most valuable player in the league for at least some stretch of time

lolololol

KniCks4LiFe
01-17-2014, 05:52 PM
most of it is b/c Lin and Harden are caught in the middle of playing a role that doesn't benefit Dwight.

When you have a shooting guard that shoots 200+ 3pt shots b/c the coach saids it's ok. That is an issue. When you have a PG trying to stay efficient b/c his coach has no faith in him and yo-yos him. That's a disaster.

Dwight is caught having to get open shots for Lin, Harden and Parsons at times and I keep saying this, and I think Charles Barkley wanted to say this. Dwight Howard is not Tyson Chandler or Jermaine O'neal; Dwight Howard is suppose to be a threat in the post every time down the court. But this offense has him in the perimeter and they can't get an entry pass to him.

Something coaching wise is wrong there.

PraiseJesus
01-17-2014, 06:04 PM
how can anyone defend Dwight? seriously

blahblahyoutoo
01-17-2014, 06:23 PM
i've said it before. he's the least impactful big man/best center/max contract guy in the league.

he's not a bball player. he's an athlete that happens to be tall.

blahblahyoutoo
01-17-2014, 06:26 PM
Dwight is a #3 or #2 player AT BEST on a championship team.

The problem is that he refuses to be anything but a #1... he should also be a defensive specialist because his offensive skills are a joke. He looks like an overgrown 10 year old with his terrible coordination

In my opinion he tries too hard to be 'funny' and doesnt try hard enough to be a complete team player.

On top of it all, he is an angry and shallow person. He has no respect for the greats before him, ZERO.

He stole Shaqs nickname and schtick with Superman, he blew off Kareem, he doesnt seems to learn anything from Hakeem or Mchale...

Ive caught some of his tweets and comments that are very hateful towards fans or other players

The bottomline is he is very selfish, unfunny, and not a team player.

The way that he pouted like a little baby and sabotaged the Lakers by clearly not trying was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen from a professional athlete.

Dwight should be the most hated player in the NBA. He is a joke

he had a pretty funny tweet. that's about it though.

Asik's better
01-17-2014, 06:27 PM
When people look up the definition of knee jerk reaction it will contain a link to this thread

PurpleLynch
01-17-2014, 06:37 PM
He's still the best center on the defensive end,but Cousins is playing better this season.I absolutely don't hate Howard,but I hate that we probably missed the chance to see a potential top 5 center of all time because he didn't develop his offensive skill(which was covered by his insane athleticism in his prime with Orlando) and in my opinion he hasn't the killer instict needed to win championships.

He's doing well with the Rockets anyway.Obviously he will never be the alpha dog in that team. But maybe he was meant to be a kind of "Robin",I don't think he can really tolerate the pressure to be the 1st option for a team and maybe it's good for his game.

Chill_Will_24
01-17-2014, 06:45 PM
@Blahblahyoutoo

Brook Lopez is the least impactful max contract big in the game. All he does is score for himself in isolation and protect the rim. All other areas of his defense are terrible, he is slow and cannot pass to save his life so his team is forced to stand there and watch.

It's no surprise to me the Nets are playing so much better without him. Most overrated big man in the game.

Dwight for all his troubles is still a dominant force defensively

ghettosean
01-17-2014, 06:50 PM
When people look up the definition of knee jerk reaction it will contain a link to this thread

The main point I made in the thread was in regards to him building his offensive game is that a knee jerk reaction or did we wait 10 years and still nothing. He might have grown a bit from the Orlando days just a bit but beyond that he's still pretty much the same player offensively no go to move... Nothing scary on the offensive end for him. It's just the way it is...

Asik's better
01-17-2014, 08:15 PM
The main point I made in the thread was in regards to him building his offensive game is that a knee jerk reaction or did we wait 10 years and still nothing. He might have grown a bit from the Orlando days just a bit but beyond that he's still pretty much the same player offensively no go to move... Nothing scary on the offensive end for him. It's just the way it is...

He dosnt have to have an amazing offensive game because he isn't the number one option at the rockets. But it seems like he can't win. People have been saying for years he should take a step back and stop being the number one option on offense. So he does that this season then suddenly people say he needs to be the number one option again. Dwight has role perfectly this season and no one has said anything. But every time houston loses suddenly dwight needs to embarrassed and houston are in trouble and blah blah blah. I will let everyone on a secret, the main problems with the rockets are their giving up 101ppg, have 16 turnovers per game and their 3P% is .344. That's why they won't win a championship this year, not dwight

Chronz
01-17-2014, 08:21 PM
He's clearly not what he once was. He's playing better than last year for sure though. Doubt he ever gets back to Orlando levels. It's still most obviously seen on defense where he doesn't quite cover as much ground nor does he contest nearly as many shots. That's not effort, at least from what I've seen. And since so much of his offensive game was predicated on athleticism, him not having as much of that clearly is causing a ton of problems. He made adjustments later on in his Orlando career and did viably because a more skilled offensive player. It's hard to see those gains any more, but maybe there's a chance he can adapt and evolve a little bit. Because right now, regardless of what his FG% is, he's not as good of an offensive player as he should be.

He was never overrated, though. Post-injury he fell off, plain and simple. But what he did in LAL doesn't mean anything in regards to his value before hand. Him playing poorly there doesn't mean he was always overrated. And before that, he was arguably the second most valuable player in the league for at least some stretch of time

Reported for baiting by way of factual arguments

b@llhog24
01-17-2014, 08:22 PM
Dear lord I hate when people attribute things to "heart."

b@llhog24
01-17-2014, 08:23 PM
He's clearly not what he once was. He's playing better than last year for sure though. Doubt he ever gets back to Orlando levels. It's still most obviously seen on defense where he doesn't quite cover as much ground nor does he contest nearly as many shots. That's not effort, at least from what I've seen. And since so much of his offensive game was predicated on athleticism, him not having as much of that clearly is causing a ton of problems. He made adjustments later on in his Orlando career and did viably because a more skilled offensive player. It's hard to see those gains any more, but maybe there's a chance he can adapt and evolve a little bit. Because right now, regardless of what his FG% is, he's not as good of an offensive player as he should be.

He was never overrated, though. Post-injury he fell off, plain and simple. But what he did in LAL doesn't mean anything in regards to his value before hand. Him playing poorly there doesn't mean he was always overrated. And before that, he was arguably the second most valuable player in the league for at least some stretch of time

You win the internet.

RLundi
01-17-2014, 08:36 PM
I'd probably take DMC over him, MAYBE Gasol. But people saying Hibbert, Horford, Chandler etc, that is a complete joke. Dwight is still a top 3 center. He's regressed since Orlando, but some of the comments in this thread are downright pathetic.

ByShine
01-17-2014, 08:39 PM
It's because people have high expectations when it comes to howard. In my eyes he's not the best big out there but certainly top5

Jamiecballer
01-17-2014, 09:19 PM
i agree Dwight should be embarrassed of himself but not because he isn't the best big in the league. that's silly.

John Walls Era
01-17-2014, 09:42 PM
Dwight use to dominate games on D and occasionally put up some monster offensive games. This year hes been wayyyy below his usual average.

ByShine
01-17-2014, 11:49 PM
Anthony davis will be the best center in a few years

JJ_JKidd
01-17-2014, 11:54 PM
I'm not a D12 hater but I think I'm just saying it how it is.... I just think he should be embarrassed for not having any new offensive moves after working with some of the greatest offensive big men ever in Kareem (agreeably the best player of all time), Hakeem (one of the top C's of all time), McHale on of the best big men of all time and Pau Gasol probably the best offensive talent for a big before DMC this season. The guy has the body he has the skills but I just don't think he has the heart of mentality to become a great player and be mentioned in the same sentence with any of the above.

On top of that his leadership skills are horrid at best as I don't see the huge lift on team defense like there should be... Insert Tyson Chandler on the Rockets team and you will see a huge improvement. I saw Durant blow by D12 a few times and dunk on him and Dwight just put his hands up like I don't want any of that!?!?!

Does anyone still think of this guy as the best big man in the league? Anyone agree or disagree with what I wrote above?

Discuss!

He just wants to have.....FUN. Whatever that means to him.

houstonfan
01-18-2014, 12:16 AM
I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

I stopped taking you seriously right there...

John Walls Era
01-18-2014, 12:17 AM
I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

ok Dwight is underperforming and Im the first to call him out, but lets not get ridiculous.... DRUMMOND? lololololol

championships
01-18-2014, 12:33 AM
Dwight seems to work hard on his physique, not his game.

holditdown
01-18-2014, 12:38 AM
He doesn't care. Which is really pathetic and soft.

Denver-boy
01-18-2014, 12:38 AM
dwight embarrassed? why? not one person has been the best at their position longer than dwight than Lebron james. and Kobe.

PG: Rose, CP3, Tony Parker, RW, kyrie, lillard,curry

SG: Wade, Kobe, Harden

SF: Lebron* Melo, Durant, PG,

Pf:Lebron* Kevin Love, Dirk, Garnett, Duncan. LMA, Davis.

C: Dwight.... finally DMC has developed. Lopez dissapears, Gasol.

WES KOAST
01-18-2014, 12:40 AM
when was howard ever considered the best center in the league? dude overrated and not a winner

JWorthy42
01-18-2014, 12:53 AM
dwight embarrassed? why? not one person has been the best at their position longer than dwight than Lebron james. and Kobe.

PG: Rose, CP3, Tony Parker, RW, kyrie, lillard,curry

SG: Wade, Kobe, Harden

SF: Lebron* Melo, Durant, PG,

Pf:Lebron* Kevin Love, Dirk, Garnett, Duncan. LMA, Davis.

C: Dwight.... finally DMC has developed. Lopez dissapears, Gasol.

That is due to the lack of great centers coming into the NBA in the recent years rather than Howard's personal skill and talent.

LJEATON26
01-18-2014, 12:59 AM
Howard is really soft as a player and an underachiever. He's just lucky he didn't have to play center in the nineties. Imo he wouldn't have even been a top 10 center.

WES KOAST
01-18-2014, 01:37 AM
only time Dwight was considered the best center is when guys like Bynum, yao ming, marc gasol were hurt. dude got a physique but he play soft. howard gotta listen to shaq n man the **** up!!!

holditdown
01-18-2014, 01:48 AM
I could give a crap about his physique. Everybody in the NBA has some muscle.

Guy worries more about his physique and being soft than his game.

Denverbronco007
01-18-2014, 01:59 AM
As far as if he's the best big man, he is when he wants to be. That game where he spanked Drummond was a good example. If he had that kind of energy and drive on a nightly basis, he would be. He had a really good stretch in December where he was just killing folks. Then he just decided to coast. He is, and always has been, one of the biggest enigmas in the NBA.

+1

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 02:07 AM
I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

I stopped taking you seriously right there...

If I was building a contender i would take Chandler over Dwight. He's a guy who went up to Brendan Haywood who had injury problems (not hurt feelings of not starting of course... lol) and asked him could walk... When he said yes Chandler said then there's no reason you can't get on the court and he suited up. ***edit*** this was during the finals versus the heat.

Leadership like this just isn't something Dwight possesses as nutty as DMC is I bet he's a better leader than Dwight. Being a locker room and floor general is one of those important things that don't show up on a stat sheet.

Denverbronco007
01-18-2014, 02:08 AM
He dosnt have to have an amazing offensive game because he isn't the number one option at the rockets. But it seems like he can't win. People have been saying for years he should take a step back and stop being the number one option on offense. So he does that this season then suddenly people say he needs to be the number one option again. Dwight has role perfectly this season and no one has said anything. But every time houston loses suddenly dwight needs to embarrassed and houston are in trouble and blah blah blah. I will let everyone on a secret, the main problems with the rockets are their giving up 101ppg, have 16 turnovers per game and their 3P% is .344. That's why they won't win a championship this year, not dwight


I think you're on to something

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 02:10 AM
I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

ok Dwight is underperforming and Im the first to call him out, but lets not get ridiculous.... DRUMMOND? lololololol Yes that's a bit of a stretch I admit but the rest I would definitely take over D12

sunsfan88
01-18-2014, 03:50 AM
Dwight averages 18 pts, 12 rebounds and 2 blocks a night as the 2nd option while shooting 61%TS and providing excellent rim protection. Who else can do all that?

rhino17
01-18-2014, 04:36 AM
That loss was on just about everyone except Dwight. Dwight is never gonna be a legit low post scorer, but he has added ad baby hook and drop step this year that he has never had before. But he never touched the ball last night. Kevin McHale is a pathetic coach who loves harden and co to play hero ball

b@llhog24
01-18-2014, 07:08 AM
That is due to the lack of great centers coming into the NBA in the recent years rather than Howard's personal skill and talent.

So he's just supposed to play like **** then? He was definitely the best C in the league once Yao went down and arguably the best big man once he hit his stride and started winning DPOY.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-18-2014, 09:15 AM
glad this bum is off of the Lakers

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 10:40 AM
He is playing pretty good. Better than last year but not close to Orlando Dwight. Im starting to think that back injury robbed him of a lot of his athleticism. I thought he was dogging it last year but maybe he just is hobbled and will never be the same. It's been about two years since his surgery.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 10:46 AM
=-Kobe24-TJ19-;27820146]glad this bum is off of the Lakers

You would rather watch the slop we are playing with right now? Now, I will agree that I don't think it's the best idea to max him out for a long period of time going forward while he gets less athletic and worse at basketball. But he is definitely no bum. He would be our best player by a mile.

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 11:00 AM
The main point I made in the thread was in regards to him building his offensive game is that a knee jerk reaction or did we wait 10 years and still nothing. He might have grown a bit from the Orlando days just a bit but beyond that he's still pretty much the same player offensively no go to move... Nothing scary on the offensive end for him. It's just the way it is...

He dosnt have to have an amazing offensive game because he isn't the number one option at the rockets. But it seems like he can't win. People have been saying for years he should take a step back and stop being the number one option on offense. So he does that this season then suddenly people say he needs to be the number one option again. Dwight has role perfectly this season and no one has said anything. But every time houston loses suddenly dwight needs to embarrassed and houston are in trouble and blah blah blah. I will let everyone on a secret, the main problems with the rockets are their giving up 101ppg, have 16 turnovers per game and their 3P% is .344. That's why they won't win a championship this year, not dwight

I never insinuated that he should be the number 1 option on a team or the rockets. I'm directly saying he should be embarrassed with his offensive game in general. He's worked out with some of the greatest centers in NBA history... HES ACTUALLY WORKED OUT WITH THE HIGHEST SCORING PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY. Had a teammate who was arguably the most offensively skilled bigs in the league last year in Pau Gasol and there is Zero improvement. Nevermind Mchale is the coach of his current squad.

With all that help why shouldn't he be embarrassed on his offensive game? After 10 years in the league and working out with the best of the best (he even worked out with Hakeem in Orlando before he went to Houston) and he still has no go to move in the post.

Tell me he shouldn't be embarrassed about this by now with his max contract. Dwight is no Shaq not even close but with a body like that he can muscle his way in the post and get any bloody shot he wants. He just has no go to moves and with all the greats he has had the opportunity to work with after 10 years that's beyond embarrassing.

Drummond#1
01-18-2014, 11:00 AM
I would be surprised if D12 is in the top five in two years. DMC, Davis, Drummond, Hibbert they are younger and they are all getting better.

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 11:04 AM
Dear lord I hate when people attribute things to "heart."

Some where Andrew Bynum is nodding his head and smiling :D

nastynice
01-18-2014, 11:58 AM
His back might have something to do with it.

I remember watching him when they played the warriors and actually in the first quarter he was doing some damage on offense. He actually had some moves, nothing crazy but I remember thinking to myself o crap, looks like dwights developing his offensive game. After a good first quarter tho, they just never went back to him on offense. I had no clue why, he was effective and it was working, but they just completely cut him out of the equation for one reason or another. Maybe the system he's in just doesn't really allow him to build much an offensive game.

cmellofan15
01-18-2014, 12:04 PM
I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

What are you even basing this on? Dwight is playing better than every one of them except Boogie. Yeah, I understand Gasol is hurt but who cares? Dwight's play was criticized more than ever when he was injured so I'm not going to make an excuse for Gasol. And sure, whatever, he doesn't have any 'offensive moves'. That hasn't stopped him from scoring more efficiently from literally every guy you listed despite him still being an awful FT shooter.

ghettosean
01-18-2014, 12:35 PM
I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

What are you even basing this on? Dwight is playing better than every one of them except Boogie. Yeah, I understand Gasol is hurt but who cares? Dwight's play was criticized more than ever when he was injured so I'm not going to make an excuse for Gasol. And sure, whatever, he doesn't have any 'offensive moves'. That hasn't stopped him from scoring more efficiently from literally every guy you listed despite him still being an awful FT shooter.

The list of players is just opinion and can be debated it's not fact. Though players like Duncan (who owned D12 in the playoffs last year) just play there roll more and if you need him to get 30 and 17 in a finals game 6 (one ****ing rebound... ahhhhh!!!) Then he'll be there but he's more for developing his squad and not taking touches away from his teammates inless he needs to step up. This is the same with Hibbert no wanting to take touches from Paul George... Neither of those guys give a **** about stats just about winning... I'm not sure Dwight shares that mentality nor do I believe he's deferring to anyone to make his team better he's pretty much the same old D12. Most of that post you quoted was a knock on his offensive game. He is without a doubt the strongest player in the league there is no way he should not be able to muscle his way to the paint to get off whatever shot he wants. I'm more upset that he basically coasted his career on his athletic gifts and did not really increase his offensive skill set even though he's had every opportunity to do so with some of the best big men to play the game.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-18-2014, 01:23 PM
You would rather watch the slop we are playing with right now? Now, I will agree that I don't think it's the best idea to max him out for a long period of time going forward while he gets less athletic and worse at basketball. But he is definitely no bum. He would be our best player by a mile.

we suck like last year :laugh:

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-18-2014, 01:47 PM
we suck like last year :laugh:

We are far worse than last year though. At this point in the season I was confident they would make the playoffs. Now I am confident we wont come close. We have the 7th worst record in the league right now, and if things keep going our way, we will be top 3 in no time. But we blew it yesterday by snatching victory out of the jaws of defeat.

Tony_Starks
01-18-2014, 01:53 PM
Barkley said it best, he's made no improvement since the Orlando days. People kept thinking he would develop offensive skills, maturity, and a killer instinct but he never did. Very good but not great and damn sure not a franchise player....

Vinylman
01-18-2014, 02:26 PM
funny everyones hating on Dwight but the dude leads winning team/contenders year in year out almost every year of his career. He stepped up big time down the strech last year when Kobe went down too. When Cousins good play leads to his team winning then you can talk bcuz he does enough negative stuff to negate being the best, same goes for Love when he leads a team to even a playoff berth then talk.

Hibbert? get real. Horford? not even close.

Dwight with "no offensive game" is still better then all these guys you are listing

bolded is pure garbage... kobe missed 2 games at the end of the regular season and the lakers were swept in the 1st round... including getting tossed in a playoff game

the two guys that played out of their minds to get the Lakers in the playoffs were blake and Gasol

Chronz
01-18-2014, 02:28 PM
We are far worse than last year though. At this point in the season I was confident they would make the playoffs. Now I am confident we wont come close. We have the 7th worst record in the league right now, and if things keep going our way, we will be top 3 in no time. But we blew it yesterday by snatching victory out of the jaws of defeat.

Were you one of those who predicted playoffs during the 10-10 start or whatever it was? I know some of you (L Fans) were, even though it was painfully obvious they wouldn't. One of the main L posters suggested it was me hoping rather than being objective about it.

RLundi
01-18-2014, 03:18 PM
when was howard ever considered the best center in the league? dude overrated and not a winner

You cannot be serious.

FOBolous
01-19-2014, 02:15 AM
You cannot be serious.

he is. for some reason, to a lot of haters, Dwight's one bad year in LA defines his whole career. to these people, his one bad year in LA completely nullifies all the playoff accomplishments, statistical superiority, and awards he won in all the previous years.

Drummond#1
01-19-2014, 02:28 AM
I have never watched a superstar player embarrass himself the way Dwight did last year. He simply wasn't trying. It's pretty bad when a low profile player like Steve Nash is calling someone out about heart and motor. Dwight could have been a top five big of all time. Instead he will be lucky if he makes it into the HOF now.
That's on him. It's not on Stan Van Gundy, Kupchak, Ewing or anyone else. When Dwight is on the outside looking in while guys like Kobe, Pau and Nash are getting inducted he will only have himself to blame.

AntiG
01-19-2014, 02:30 AM
he NEVER has been the best big man in the league.

FOBolous
01-19-2014, 02:43 AM
I have never watched a superstar player embarrass himself the way Dwight did last year. He simply wasn't trying. It's pretty bad when a low profile player like Steve Nash is calling someone out about heart and motor. Dwight could have been a top five big of all time. Instead he will be lucky if he makes it into the HOF now.
That's on him. It's not on Stan Van Gundy, Kupchak, Ewing or anyone else. When Dwight is on the outside looking in while guys like Kobe, Pau and Nash are getting inducted he will only have himself to blame.

Dwight Howard played injured when he was with the Lakers. Here is what Kevin McHale said about Dwight Howard's health when Houston first signed him:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9927537/dwight-howard-improved-dramatically-health-wise-joining-houston-rockets-kevin-mchale-says


"When we did a physical after we signed him, I sat down with our training staff and they were all like, 'Oh boy.' He had a huge discrepancy in his strength in his right leg and his left leg. His glutes and his hamstrings were really weak and his flexibility was completely ... funky."

if anything, these "veterans" showed a complete lack of class and support towards their supposed "teammate" while he was playing through his injury by publicly criticizing him :pity: Kobe did it because..he's kobe. and Nash probably did it due to peer pressure from Kobe and the rest of LA's Kobe worshipping media.

lol, please
01-19-2014, 02:47 AM
You cannot be serious.

Bogut and Cousins are better.

FOBolous
01-19-2014, 02:59 AM
Bogut and Cousins are better.

Cousin's List of Accolades: 1x NBA Rookie All-First Team
Cousin's playoff Appearance: 0

vs

Dwight Howard's List of Accolades: 7× NBA All-Star, 5× All-NBA First Team, 2× All-NBA Third Team, 3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year, 4× NBA All-Defensive First Team, NBA All-Defensive Second Team, NBA All-Rookie First Team, 5× NBA rebounding leader, 2× NBA blocks leader, Orlando Magic all-time leading scorer
Dwight Howard's Playoff Appearance: 6



Andrew Bogut's Career Stats: 11.8 pts, 9.3 reb, 1.6 blk, TS% .538

vs

Dwight Howard's Career Stats: 18.2 pts, 12.9 reb, 2.2 blk, TS% .618






yup..."no-defense and never won anything" Cousins and "never averaged more than 15ppg and never healthy" Bogus is definitely better players than Dwight Howard :rolleyes:

alexander_37
01-19-2014, 03:01 AM
I agree on what you are saying about one of the dunks by KD he was too quick getting in the paint but I just don't see him as the best big in the game to me it goes:

Marc Gasol
Hibbert
DMC
Chandler
Duncan (37 years old)
(maybe even Drummond... Though I'd like to see him play without Monroe before I say that for certain)

I just don't understand how after playing in the league for this long that he hasn't picked up any offensive moves I mean honestly this isn't the 1st time he's worked out with Hakeem and the rest of the other players that have tutored him I mean honestly he should have a go to move by now. The sad thing is he was known as probably the best player in the league for a few years (behind Lebron) and that was almost purely based on his defense I mean if he had an offensive game he might have won a few MVP's by now.

:laugh: I love how you rail on his offense then list 6 guys who are no where near as good as him offensively other than DMC. Howard is better than all of them on defense, the only one with an argument is Gasol. :laugh:

Drummond#1
01-19-2014, 03:53 AM
Dwight Howard played injured when he was with the Lakers. Here is what Kevin McHale said about Dwight Howard's health when Houston first signed him:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9927537/dwight-howard-improved-dramatically-health-wise-joining-houston-rockets-kevin-mchale-says



if anything, these "veterans" showed a complete lack of class and support towards their supposed "teammate" while he was playing through his injury by publicly criticizing him :pity: Kobe did it because..he's kobe. and Nash probably did it due to peer pressure from Kobe and the rest of LA's Kobe worshipping media.

I disagree as Steve Nash has something Dwight will never have... Integrity.

If he was traded to BKN like he requested his "injuries" would have been a non-factor.

FOBolous
01-19-2014, 04:34 AM
I disagree as Steve Nash has something Dwight will never have... Integrity.

If he was traded to BKN like he requested his "injuries" would have been a non-factor.

where was his "integrity" when he failed to stand up for a "teammate" that was playing while injured? Dwight Howard's injuries were so bad that it shocked Houston's training staff when he first signed with Houston.

and your second statement is an ASSUMPTION w/ no evidence to support it based on the FACT that Dwight Howard was legitimately injured...again...proven by Houston's training staff when they first evaluated Dwight after he signed w/ Houston. AGAIN, this is what Houston's training staff said about Dwight when he first signed with Houston:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9927537/dwight-howard-improved-dramatically-health-wise-joining-houston-rockets-kevin-mchale-says


"When we did a physical after we signed him, I sat down with our training staff and they were all like, 'Oh boy.' He had a huge discrepancy in his strength in his right leg and his left leg. His glutes and his hamstrings were really weak and his flexibility was completely ... funky."

Jazzgear
01-19-2014, 05:20 AM
I'd probably take DMC over him, MAYBE Gasol. But people saying Hibbert, Horford, Chandler etc, that is a complete joke. Dwight is still a top 3 center. He's regressed since Orlando, but some of the comments in this thread are downright pathetic.

Last I checked Hibbert is a prototypical center, 7', has go to post moves and defends his position well. I'd take Hibbert over Howard p, especially in the playoffs when it becomes a half court game

FOBolous
01-19-2014, 05:55 AM
Last I checked Hibbert is a prototypical center, 7', has go to post moves and defends his position well. I'd take Hibbert over Howard p, especially in the playoffs when it becomes a half court game

hmmm. i disagree. i'd take a player who averages 12.5 rpg and is 2.1 pts shy of averaging 20ppg while sustaining a TS% of .576 over a player who averages 12.4 ppg on a TS% of .535 and 7.7 rpg. but that's just me.

PraiseJesus
01-19-2014, 08:00 AM
Joel Embiid is already the best big man in the NBA and he hasnt been drafted yet

Drummond#1
01-19-2014, 08:50 AM
where was his "integrity" when he failed to stand up for a "teammate" that was playing while injured? Dwight Howard's injuries were so bad that it shocked Houston's training staff when he first signed with Houston.

and your second statement is an ASSUMPTION w/ no evidence to support it based on the FACT that Dwight Howard was legitimately injured...again...proven by Houston's training staff when they first evaluated Dwight after he signed w/ Houston. AGAIN, this is what Houston's training staff said about Dwight when he first signed with Houston:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9927537/dwight-howard-improved-dramatically-health-wise-joining-houston-rockets-kevin-mchale-says

Personally I think when the Rockets mentioned this they were just supporting their new "marquee" player. And trying to lessen bad PR for potentially tampering.

Dwight is soft. If he wanted to win in LA he would have sucked it up. He didn't want to win in LA and chose to be a b!tch instead.

Jarvo
01-19-2014, 10:30 AM
Glad to see DMC getting respect now, He's been playing well and staying out of trouble.

To me DMC > D12

RipCity32
01-19-2014, 11:44 AM
Joel Embiid is already the best big man in the NBA and he hasnt been drafted yet

That kid has some serious potential. He can already be a beast on both sides of the ball. If I had the #1 pick in the draft Embiid would be my guy for sure. Definitely has the potential to be the best center in the league.

FOBolous
01-19-2014, 12:14 PM
Personally I think when the Rockets mentioned this they were just supporting their new "marquee" player. And trying to lessen bad PR for potentially tampering.

uh huh. you know what I think? what i assume? i think you're mad cause Drummond is basically a poor man's Dwight.


Dwight is soft. If he wanted to win in LA he would have sucked it up. He didn't want to win in LA and chose to be a b!tch instead.

you act like Dwight's the first player not to get along with Kobe and left because of Kobe. and if i was a player in MY prime, i wouldn't want to waste it playing 2nd fiddle to an over the hill player on, what is essentially, a rebuilding team. plus i would want my own team. but, again, that's just me. you might be a little less ambitious of a person and be complacent with what LA is "offering" you and stay there because of LA's amazing history...cause you know, history helps you win now.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-19-2014, 12:22 PM
Were you one of those who predicted playoffs during the 10-10 start or whatever it was? I know some of you (L Fans) were, even though it was painfully obvious they wouldn't. One of the main L posters suggested it was me hoping rather than being objective about it.

It wasn't even a question in my mind that early in the season. I was telling "The Dubs" that they would make the playoffs when they were 8 games under 500.

KingstonHawke
01-19-2014, 12:31 PM
That year Dwight to the Magic to the Finals he played incredibly. They had an easy road, but still he played his tail off. Hustled on both ends, everything you expect a super athlete to do. But since then, I think he's stopped caring about the game as much. We gotta remember that these guys have personal lives, so maybe having children and the baby mom drama to go with it is what changed him.

I always will say that Miami missed out on making the deal of the century. If they had traded Wade to Orlando for Dwight, they could've even forced the Magic to give them draft picks, money, and a prospect. The way James, Bosh, and Howard would mesh on the court would be a thing of beauty.

Jarvo
01-19-2014, 12:37 PM
Joel Embiid is already the best big man in the NBA and he hasnt been drafted yet

Ehh let's just wait and see what happens when/if he comes out and plays in The NBA, Remember the last couple of hyped Centers coming out of college haven't done so well.

RLundi
01-19-2014, 12:44 PM
Bogut and Cousins are better.

1. You're an abject homer so no one takes anything you say remotely seriously. Sorry.

2. I previously said I'd take Cousins over Dwight right now, but that isn't the issue at hand. The argument was that Dwight has never been the league's best center and that notion is sheer ludicrousness.

RLundi
01-19-2014, 12:47 PM
Last I checked Hibbert is a prototypical center, 7', has go to post moves and defends his position well. I'd take Hibbert over Howard p, especially in the playoffs when it becomes a half court game

Terrible, just terrible.

Dwight is a better scorer, is more efficient and a much better rebounder. The only unknown is defense, and I say it's a virtual toss-up. If we're going on character, then fine, take Hibbert. But everything else? Dwight in a landslide.

3RDASYSTEM
01-19-2014, 01:22 PM
I'm not a D12 hater but I think I'm just saying it how it is.... I just think he should be embarrassed for not having any new offensive moves after working with some of the greatest offensive big men ever in Kareem (agreeably the best player of all time), Hakeem (one of the top C's of all time), McHale on of the best big men of all time and Pau Gasol probably the best offensive talent for a big before DMC this season. The guy has the body he has the skills but I just don't think he has the heart of mentality to become a great player and be mentioned in the same sentence with any of the above.

On top of that his leadership skills are horrid at best as I don't see the huge lift on team defense like there should be... Insert Tyson Chandler on the Rockets team and you will see a huge improvement. I saw Durant blow by D12 a few times and dunk on him and Dwight just put his hands up like I don't want any of that!?!?!

Does anyone still think of this guy as the best big man in the league? Anyone agree or disagree with what I wrote above?

Discuss!

On a side note those other big men prior to this season( in your terms) should be downright ashamed of themselves to be outplayed/outvoted for all star and all nba teams and DPOY awards

and most of all they should be ashamed for allowing a back injured torn labrum big man to lead the league in boards last year, what a ****** big man HOWARD has become, and he led a team to the FINALS as a big man, DUNCAN-DIRK did it but they are from the 90's era

JEDean89
01-19-2014, 02:04 PM
Anthony Davis is the best 2 way big man in the NBA. 20 years old and already way better offensively than Dwight, way better defensively than Demarcus Cousins. Only, KAJ, Robinson and Olajuwon have matched his points, rebounds, steals and blocks totals in a season. again, he's 20 years old, almost 21. his PER is way better than Dwight, and on par with Cousins. He's averaged 3 BLKS and 1.5 steals this year! who else does that in this league?

mightybosstone
01-19-2014, 02:23 PM
This thread is a ****ing joke. I've watched a ton of Howard's play this season, and I actually think he's shown quite a few post moves. He's definitely not the dominant player he was in Orlando, but he's certainly better than he's been the last couple of seasons. I've been impressed with his ability to face up and take defenders off the dribble, and I've also seen a decent repertoire of jump hooks and the occasional Dream Shake lite.

He's not the most offensively skilled big man in the league, but he never was to begin with. People need to quit making Dwight out to be something he's not. He's one of the best defensive players in the league who uses his athleticism to his advantage on the offensive end, pounds the glass well and has a modest array of weapons in the post. He's never going to be Shaq or Hakeem. Get over it and move on to another ****ing topic.

Snakeyestx
01-19-2014, 02:28 PM
No new moves? How about this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2lDgGjNIqI

No hesitation.

How bout actually praising his teammates instead of complaining about them like he did in LA and Orlando.

Two... "new"... moves. ;)

Chronz
01-19-2014, 02:34 PM
His post game hasn't been any better, thats been disappointing for sure

PraiseJesus
01-19-2014, 02:57 PM
That kid has some serious potential. He can already be a beast on both sides of the ball. If I had the #1 pick in the draft Embiid would be my guy for sure. Definitely has the potential to be the best center in the league.

Embiid has better fundamentals and skills than any big man in the NBA except for maybe Pau

mightybosstone
01-19-2014, 03:02 PM
His post game hasn't been any better, thats been disappointing for sure

This I'll agree with. But I hardly think Dwight should be "embarrassed" because of it or that he deserves harsh criticism for it. How many players suddenly make significant improvements in their ninth season in the league? It's definitely not the norm. But the guy has definitely been better than he was in LA, and the Rockets have absolutely been a better basketball team with his addition. What more could they have asked for?

PraiseJesus
01-19-2014, 03:02 PM
Ehh let's just wait and see what happens when/if he comes out and plays in The NBA, Remember the last couple of hyped Centers coming out of college haven't done so well.

Yes, but this kid is different. I've never seen a college player with the footwork, athleticism, and fundamentals that Embiid has.He also has a long body with great defensive instinctsm, blocking shots everywhere.

I was excited to see how Wiggins would do this year but Embiid is clearly the #1 pick

Vinylman
01-19-2014, 03:15 PM
That year Dwight to the Magic to the Finals he played incredibly. They had an easy road, but still he played his tail off. Hustled on both ends, everything you expect a super athlete to do. But since then, I think he's stopped caring about the game as much. We gotta remember that these guys have personal lives, so maybe having children and the baby mom drama to go with it is what changed him.

I always will say that Miami missed out on making the deal of the century. If they had traded Wade to Orlando for Dwight, they could've even forced the Magic to give them draft picks, money, and a prospect. The way James, Bosh, and Howard would mesh on the court would be a thing of beauty.


WHAT? Gasol and Bynum made him their ***** in that finals... did you even watch?

SMFH

Vinylman
01-19-2014, 03:19 PM
everyone keeps saying d12 is playing better in houston than in LA... unfortunately advanced stats don't back that up.

rhino17
01-19-2014, 04:44 PM
His post game hasn't been any better, thats been disappointing for sure

That's bogus

Tblaze
01-19-2014, 05:28 PM
Not a howard fan.. I hate it when he starts barking at teammates when something goes wrong and he's involved. He's not the guy to lead a team mentality wise, but at the same time he seems to crave attention with all this childish play stuff off the court.

KnicksorBust
01-19-2014, 05:50 PM
He is past the point where he should be judged on if hes scoring 18 or 20 ppg... its all about developing chemistry now and what they do in the playoffs. He could easily drop 30-18 on Deandre Jordan in the playoffs and then suddenly he is a superstar again.

JWorthy42
01-19-2014, 06:16 PM
So he's just supposed to play like **** then? He was definitely the best C in the league once Yao went down and arguably the best big man once he hit his stride and started winning DPOY.

Right, but you fail to comprehend my post. (as expected)

The whole point is that Dwight looked head and shoulders above the rest of the league because there was no competition. After Yao went down, there were no centers in the league who were good enough to be considered franchise players. Bynum was constantly injured. Bogut would break his limbs every week.

JWorthy42
01-19-2014, 06:19 PM
Cousin's List of Accolades: 1x NBA Rookie All-First Team
Cousin's playoff Appearance: 0

vs

Dwight Howard's List of Accolades: 7× NBA All-Star, 5× All-NBA First Team, 2× All-NBA Third Team, 3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year, 4× NBA All-Defensive First Team, NBA All-Defensive Second Team, NBA All-Rookie First Team, 5× NBA rebounding leader, 2× NBA blocks leader, Orlando Magic all-time leading scorer
Dwight Howard's Playoff Appearance: 6



Andrew Bogut's Career Stats: 11.8 pts, 9.3 reb, 1.6 blk, TS% .538

vs

Dwight Howard's Career Stats: 18.2 pts, 12.9 reb, 2.2 blk, TS% .618






yup..."no-defense and never won anything" Cousins and "never averaged more than 15ppg and never healthy" Bogus is definitely better players than Dwight Howard :rolleyes:

How many years has Cousins been in the league compared to Dwight? Jesus Christ dude, don't make such straw-man arguments.

Asik's better
01-19-2014, 07:06 PM
everyone keeps saying d12 is playing better in houston than in LA... unfortunately advanced stats don't back that up.
He is, you just need to watch him play.

b@llhog24
01-19-2014, 08:51 PM
Right, but you fail to comprehend my post. (as expected)

The whole point is that Dwight looked head and shoulders above the rest of the league because there was no competition. After Yao went down, there were no centers in the league who were good enough to be considered franchise players. Bynum was constantly injured. Bogut would break his limbs every week.

LOL. You semi regurgitate my post and yet I'm the one with comprehension problems? You're the one who seems to have points fly clearly over your head. Basically what you're saying is Cp3 should be considered better than Magic since it's the golden age of PGs.

People have this warp perception of the depth of great bigmen in the league. Sub Dwight back then and how many Cs would've been better than him? 4 maybe 5? He stacks up defensively with just about any big man and has an underrated offensive game.

KingstonHawke
01-20-2014, 02:03 AM
WHAT? Gasol and Bynum made him their ***** in that finals... did you even watch?

SMFH

There's a typo in there so maybe that's why you misread it. But I'm not saying he played great in the finals. I'm saying that year (regular season), he played great.

Drummond#1
01-20-2014, 05:58 AM
It's not fair to compare current players to others who have completed their careers... But if this is the beginning of the end for D12 and he continues to decline I vote no HOF. I think Dikembe and Ben Wallace would both deserve it more.

Rndy
01-20-2014, 06:20 AM
Orlando was just such a perfect place for Dwight with SVG he really knew how to utilize Dwight it's a shame Dwight didn't appreciate it. He's playing a lot better now though than in LA, he's got the shooting around him to give him room. He's a pick and roll big man the sooner he realizes that is what he is the better. He might never be the post player he wants to be.

JWorthy42
01-20-2014, 05:44 PM
LOL. You semi regurgitate my post and yet I'm the one with comprehension problems? You're the one who seems to have points fly clearly over your head. Basically what you're saying is Cp3 should be considered better than Magic since it's the golden age of PGs.

People have this warp perception of the depth of great bigmen in the league. Sub Dwight back then and how many Cs would've been better than him? 4 maybe 5? He stacks up defensively with just about any big man and has an underrated offensive game.

You put Dwight in the 90s and he isn't a Top 5 center in the league, its simple as that, damn it. Yet if you put Magic in today's NBA and he will still be the #1 PG in all of basketball.

Thats the difference.

b@llhog24
01-20-2014, 06:53 PM
You put Dwight in the 90s and he isn't a Top 5 center in the league, its simple as that, damn it. Yet if you put Magic in today's NBA and he will still be the #1 PG in all of basketball.

Thats the difference.

Who'd be clearly better than him exactly?

blahblahyoutoo
01-20-2014, 06:55 PM
Who'd be clearly better than him exactly?



in no particular order:
hakeem, robinson, ewing, mourning, mutumbo, smits, divac? (laker, forgot his name), and I'm sure I'm missing a few others that are better all around centers than dwight.

b@llhog24
01-20-2014, 06:56 PM
What about the 80s or 70s? Why is the 90s the only era in question?

JWorthy42
01-20-2014, 08:42 PM
What about the 80s or 70s? Why is the 90s the only era in question?

Because the 90s are known to be as arguably the best era of big-men, and they are fairly recent so it would be easier to compare them to modern day players.

JWorthy42
01-20-2014, 08:43 PM
in no particular order:
hakeem, robinson, ewing, mourning, mutumbo, smits, divac? (laker, forgot his name), and I'm sure I'm missing a few others that are better all around centers than dwight.

There you go.

NBA_Starter
01-20-2014, 08:43 PM
I'm not convinced that he is no longer the best.

mightybosstone
01-20-2014, 09:57 PM
in no particular order:
hakeem, robinson, ewing, mourning, mutumbo, smits, divac? (laker, forgot his name), and I'm sure I'm missing a few others that are better all around centers than dwight.

I'll give you the first three without question and probably a prime Mourning over this current Dwight. But Mutumbo was not a threat offensively, and Smits and Divac don't deserve to be spoken in the same breath as Dwight Howard.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
01-20-2014, 10:17 PM
he NEVER has been the best big man in the league.

Then who the hell was from 08-12?

ghettosean
01-20-2014, 10:31 PM
:laugh: I love how you rail on his offense then list 6 guys who are no where near as good as him offensively other than DMC. Howard is better than all of them on defense, the only one with an argument is Gasol. :laugh:

Really??? Watch the playoff series last years spurs vs lakers and watch a 37 year old Duncan make a prime Dwight Howard his *****!

Just to add certain players defer to others... Duncan is an example and Hibbert is another who defers to Paul George because he's more interested in winning than looking good on the stat sheet.

blahblahyoutoo
01-20-2014, 10:46 PM
I'll give you the first three without question and probably a prime Mourning over this current Dwight. But Mutumbo was not a threat offensively, and Smits and Divac don't deserve to be spoken in the same breath as Dwight Howard.

i forgot to mention shaq.
mutumbo was offensively challenged like dwight but SO MUCH BETTER defensively.
smits and divac have better offensive games, but not as good defensively so it's a toss up between those 3.

Tony_Starks
01-20-2014, 10:47 PM
I wouldn't even compare him to the real centers of back in the day, because that's not even fair to him. But Id currently take Hibbert over him. Gasol. Ibaka. We could have a conversation about Lopez. Mention him in the same breath with Cousins and I'm laughing in your face.

Long story short he is in no way shape or form the most dominant Big in the game...

Denverbronco007
01-20-2014, 10:57 PM
Dwight is still the best big in the game. Sorry, don't hate. He frustrates me all the time, but he's still the best

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 12:05 AM
what i love the most about this thread is that people say Dwight sucks and isn't the best anymore because he doesn't have any post moves (supposedly)...and then they proceed to name a whole bunch of other Centers who doesn't do as well as him offensively as examples of "better" Centers. makes no sense.

the funniest and most "wtf" example of a "better" Center is Hibbert. He averages 12 ppg at a below average efficency for Centers. seriously?

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 12:13 AM
what i love the most about this thread is that people say Dwight sucks and isn't the best anymore because he doesn't have any post moves...and then they proceed to name a whole bunch of other Centers who doesn't do as well as him offensively as examples of "better" Centers. makes no sense.

the funniest and most "wtf" example of a "better" Center is Hibbert. He averages 12 ppg at a below average efficency for Centers. seriously?

hey Fob, what I love most about you is how you were a staunch defender of dwight his whole career, before the joined houston.
oh wait, you weren't.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 12:16 AM
hey Fob, what I love most about you is how you were a staunch defender of dwight his whole career, before the joined houston.
oh wait, you weren't.

i wasn't. and i admit...i didn't really care about him before he came to Houston. regardless, your post offer nothing of substance. instead of TRYING to attack me personally, how bout we get back to how a bunch of Centers who perform worse than Dwight offensively is better than him?

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 12:17 AM
lol @ dwight post move.
travel, elbow the defender and still get stripped.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10325812&startTime=00:41

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 12:21 AM
lol @ dwight post move.
travel, elbow the defender and still get stripped.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10325812&startTime=00:41

lol. make fun of him all you want but fact of the matter is...he still does better offensively than all other Centers in the league except for DMC and Lopez. Problem with DMC is he doesn't play defense. Problem with Lopez is that he can't rebound or play defense. and again, if you're going to knock a guy for a specific area of his game, at least pick players who plays better than him in that area as examples of "better" players.

Dwight Howard is STILL the best Center in the league. Period. He is the ONLY Center in the league right now who does well on both end the court.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 12:24 AM
i forgot to mention shaq.
mutumbo was offensively challenged like dwight but SO MUCH BETTER defensively.
smits and divac have better offensive games, but not as good defensively so it's a toss up between those 3.

Mutumbo's defensive advantage over Dwight does not come close to Dwight's offensive advantage over Mutumbo. And Smits and Divac were not better than Dwight on either end of the floor, so I fail to see how it's remotely a "toss up" between the three players. Don't agree with me?

Dwight is posting 18/13/2/2/1 with a 58.6 TS% this season. Smits surpassed 18 a game one season in his entire career, but never averaged 8 boards a game or surpassed a 58% TS% his entire career. Divac only surpassed 16 points a game ONCE in his career, never surpassed 11 boards a game and only boasted a TS% over 57% once in his entire career. Dwight is absolutely a superior defensive player to both guys, and it's not close.

As for Mourning, I'd take a prime Mourning over this Dwight, but not a prime Mourning over a prime Dwight. And considering Dwight is in his ninth season, he's EASILY a better basketball player nine years into his career than Mourning was. That's the year injuries started to derail his career, and he was never the same after that.

Bottom line, if we're talking prime Dwight ranked among 90s centers, I'd rank him fifth behind Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson and Ewing. If we're talking this Dwight against prime 90s centers, I'd rank him sixth behind Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson and Ewing. But that's probably not a fair comparison, considering Dwight is in his ninth season and not quite the same player he was in Orlando.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 12:25 AM
Mutumbo's defensive advantage over Dwight does not come close to Dwight's offensive advantage over Mutumbo. And Smits and Divac were not better than Dwight on either end of the floor, so I fail to see how it's remotely a "toss up" between the three players. Don't agree with me?

Dwight is posting 18/13/2/2/1 with a 58.6 TS% this season. Smits surpassed 18 a game one season in his entire career, but never averaged 8 boards a game or surpassed a 58% TS% his entire career. Divac only surpassed 16 points a game ONCE in his career, never surpassed 11 boards a game and only boasted a TS% over 57% once in his entire career. Dwight is absolutely a superior defensive player to both guys, and it's not close.

As for Mourning, I'd take a prime Mourning over this Dwight, but not a prime Mourning over a prime Dwight. And considering Dwight is in his ninth season, he's EASILY a better basketball player nine years into his career than Mourning was. That's the year injuries started to derail his career, and he was never the same after that.

:clap:

b@llhog24
01-21-2014, 02:51 AM
in no particular order:
hakeem, robinson, ewing, mourning, mutumbo, smits, divac? (laker, forgot his name), and I'm sure I'm missing a few others that are better all around centers than dwight.

:laugh:

He's in the second tier of Cs in this scenario.

Tier 1: Hakeem/Robinson
Tier 2: D12/Ewing/Zo
Tier 3: The Rest.


Because the 90s are known to be as arguably the best era of big-men, and they are fairly recent so it would be easier to compare them to modern day players.

Yea but people act as if there only era that ever existed. If you compare him to the "golden age" then he's obviously gonna look like less of a player. Btw the Magic reference was to say that even though he doesn't play in the golden age of PGs it doesn't make him any less of a player.


Then who the hell was from 08-12?

KG in 08. Maybe Dirk in 011. But he was for damn sure the best C.


i forgot to mention shaq.
mutumbo was offensively challenged like dwight but SO MUCH BETTER defensively.
smits and divac have better offensive games, but not as good defensively so it's a toss up between those 3.

:pity:


I wouldn't even compare him to the real centers of back in the day, because that's not even fair to him. But Id currently take Hibbert over him. Gasol. Ibaka. We could have a conversation about Lopez. Mention him in the same breath with Cousins and I'm laughing in your face.

Long story short he is in no way shape or form the most dominant Big in the game...

Why? We're talking about a prime Dwight here. Not post back surgery Dwight. I can't believe you said Ibaka. :facepalm:


Mutumbo's defensive advantage over Dwight does not come close to Dwight's offensive advantage over Mutumbo. And Smits and Divac were not better than Dwight on either end of the floor, so I fail to see how it's remotely a "toss up" between the three players. Don't agree with me?

Dwight is posting 18/13/2/2/1 with a 58.6 TS% this season. Smits surpassed 18 a game one season in his entire career, but never averaged 8 boards a game or surpassed a 58% TS% his entire career. Divac only surpassed 16 points a game ONCE in his career, never surpassed 11 boards a game and only boasted a TS% over 57% once in his entire career. Dwight is absolutely a superior defensive player to both guys, and it's not close.

As for Mourning, I'd take a prime Mourning over this Dwight, but not a prime Mourning over a prime Dwight. And considering Dwight is in his ninth season, he's EASILY a better basketball player nine years into his career than Mourning was. That's the year injuries started to derail his career, and he was never the same after that.

Bottom line, if we're talking prime Dwight ranked among 90s centers, I'd rank him fifth behind Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson and Ewing. If we're talking this Dwight against prime 90s centers, I'd rank him sixth behind Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson and Ewing. But that's probably not a fair comparison, considering Dwight is in his ninth season and not quite the same player he was in Orlando.

Great post. Forgot about Shaq cause he's kind of a 90s/2000 C.

b@llhog24
01-21-2014, 02:54 AM
everyone keeps saying d12 is playing better in houston than in LA... unfortunately advanced stats don't back that up.

Which metrics are we looking at?

b@llhog24
01-21-2014, 02:56 AM
Also somewhat off topic. But Dwight originally came in the league as a PF so who knows where he would've ended up.

JWorthy42
01-21-2014, 03:13 AM
Dwight is still the best center in the league, IMO. What I am saying however, is that its not a complete runaway. It used to be:

1. Dwight




2. Rest.


Now its more like:

1. Dwight
2. Hibbert
3. Cousins
etc.

The gap between Dwight and the rest of the league's "top" big men has shrunk.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 12:23 PM
:laugh:

He's in the second tier of Cs in this scenario.

Tier 1: Hakeem/Robinson
Tier 2: D12/Ewing/Zo
Tier 3: The Rest.



lol, don't make me laugh, grouping dwight with centers that had offensive games.
dwight's 5/8 shooting nights all come off of lobs and setups from other players, or put backs.
all the other listed centers could create their own shots.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 12:33 PM
i'd take hibbert and cousins over dwight. and a committed bynum as well.
dwight and lopez... a toss up. lopez's offensive advantage = dwight's defensive/rebounding advantage


Dwight is still the best center in the league, IMO. What I am saying however, is that its not a complete runaway. It used to be:

1. Dwight




2. Rest.


Now its more like:

1. Dwight
2. Hibbert
3. Cousins
etc.

The gap between Dwight and the rest of the league's "top" big men has shrunk.

ghettosean
01-21-2014, 01:20 PM
:laugh:

He's in the second tier of Cs in this scenario.

Tier 1: Hakeem/Robinson
Tier 2: D12/Ewing/Zo
Tier 3: The Rest.


Dwight should be in your Tier 3 mark... Ewing was in the NBA's top 50 greatest players of all time. Please don't tell me that you consider Dwight Howard to be in that class of people. He has and has always had the potential to be in that class but watching his growth during his career will never be one of the greatest C's to play the game so lets not put him on that high a pedestal.

cmellofan15
01-21-2014, 01:36 PM
I wouldn't even compare him to the real centers of back in the day, because that's not even fair to him. But Id currently take Hibbert over him. Gasol. Ibaka. We could have a conversation about Lopez. Mention him in the same breath with Cousins and I'm laughing in your face.

Long story short he is in no way shape or form the most dominant Big in the game...

Why would you take worse players over him? Hibbert, Gasol, and Ibaka of all people? Do you have any reason whatsoever or you just genuinely don't like him? I hope it's that you just don't like him because if you think there's actual logic behind then I'm worried.

nickdymez
01-21-2014, 01:55 PM
Why would you take worse players over him? Hibbert, Gasol, and Ibaka of all people? Do you have any reason whatsoever or you just genuinely don't like him? I hope it's that you just don't like him because if you think there's actual logic behind then I'm worried.

Just because you like a player doesnt mean someone else should. I would definitly take Hibbert over Howard. I wouldnt even have to think about it either. Do you watch this guy play every night (Howard)? He's the most overrated player in some time.

flea
01-21-2014, 01:58 PM
I don't think Dwight was ever the best big man in the league, though he has been a top 3 at various points in his career. I don't think he's top 3 right now.

cmellofan15
01-21-2014, 02:10 PM
Just because you like a player doesnt mean someone else should. I would definitly take Hibbert over Howard. I wouldnt even have to think about it either. Do you watch this guy play every night (Howard)? He's the most overrated player in some time.

I have never said I like Howard, I'm just trying to differentiate between being objective and subjective at this point in the thread because some people say player A is better than player B because of how they feel about them and provide no evidence.

Well sure you'd like to have Hibbert over Howard, which is fine, because that's your opinion. But to say Hibbert is better (which you haven't, just a hypothetical) would just be wrong.

cmellofan15
01-21-2014, 02:17 PM
And to answer your question, yes, I have watched quite a bit of Howard this year since he's been nationally televised a lot and his game is the same as it has always been. His scoring dropped because he has been able to differ to others but he is still efficient as he's always been. I don't think he's really overrated because I don't listen to all of the nonsense Charles Barkley and Shaq spew along with others. I find it especially hilarious what Charles says about his failure to improve in the post when Charles never gave a crap to play or improve his defense.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-21-2014, 02:21 PM
His dominance has been missing since the back surgery.

This, Dwight will never be the same, and IMO is highly overrated still. The rockets will never win a championship.

ILLUSIONIST^248
01-21-2014, 02:22 PM
Dwight Howard, as I've said before, is the single most overrated player of the generation. A man of that physical stature and athleticism should be ashamed for not improving his game.

At this point, give me DMC, Hibbert, or M Gasol before him.
Bingo

nickdymez
01-21-2014, 02:34 PM
I have never said I like Howard, I'm just trying to differentiate between being objective and subjective at this point in the thread because some people say player A is better than player B because of how they feel about them and provide no evidence.

Well sure you'd like to have Hibbert over Howard, which is fine, because that's your opinion. But to say Hibbert is better (which you haven't, just a hypothetical) would just be wrong.

I will say at this point in their prospective careers that Hibbert is better than Howard. DMC is better than Howard at this point. Howard is above average defensively and average offensively. Thats not the best center in the league. Plus he takes games off defensively

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 03:15 PM
Dwight should be in your Tier 3 mark... Ewing was in the NBA's top 50 greatest players of all time. Please don't tell me that you consider Dwight Howard to be in that class of people. He has and has always had the potential to be in that class but watching his growth during his career will never be one of the greatest C's to play the game so lets not put him on that high a pedestal.

In terms of peak, I'd definitely give Ewing the edge. But in terms of overall efficiency and production, it's a lot close than you're making it out to be. Ewing was unquestionably a more skilled offensive player, but Dwight was clearly more efficient and a better rebounder. I think it's a similar debate between Hakeem and Shaq. Hakeem was more skilled and the better defender, but Shaq was more efficient. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer in either case.

I'd probably give Hakeem a slight edge over Shaq, because I think he did more things well overall and he beat Shaq head-to-head in their only Finals matchup. I'd probably give Dwight a slight edge, because his playoff numbers crush Ewing's and he was the most dominant defensive center in the league for the better part of a decade.

ghettosean
01-21-2014, 03:16 PM
I will say at this point in their prospective careers that Hibbert is better than Howard. DMC is better than Howard at this point. Howard is above average defensively and average offensively. Thats not the best center in the league. Plus he takes games off defensively

The sad thing is that the strongest player in the NBA who can literally get to any spot in the paint he wants should be embarrassed for only being average offensively.

nickdymez
01-21-2014, 03:43 PM
In terms of peak, I'd definitely give Ewing the edge. But in terms of overall efficiency and production, it's a lot close than you're making it out to be. Ewing was unquestionably a more skilled offensive player, but Dwight was clearly more efficient and a better rebounder. I think it's a similar debate between Hakeem and Shaq. Hakeem was more skilled and the better defender, but Shaq was more efficient. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer in either case.

I'd probably give Hakeem a slight edge over Shaq, because I think he did more things well overall and he beat Shaq head-to-head in their only Finals matchup. I'd probably give Dwight a slight edge, because his playoff numbers crush Ewing's and he was the most dominant defensive center in the league for the better part of a decade.

It looks like your going off what you read on websites and what not. Going off numbers and giving Dwight the slight edge over Ewing is ridiculous. Ewing played on much better teams than Dwight did during their playoff runs, so Dwight had to shoulder most of the load. BUt having watched the two of them play, Dwight is no where near the caliber player Ewing was.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 03:46 PM
I will say at this point in their prospective careers that Hibbert is better than Howard. DMC is better than Howard at this point. Howard is above average defensively and average offensively. Thats not the best center in the league. Plus he takes games off defensively

Calling Howard "above average defensively" and "average offensively" is a massive understatement. He's easily one of the 4-5 most impactful defensive centers in the league and how many big men in the league score 18 points a night with a 58%+ TS%? I'll go ahead and give you the answer. Very, very few.

People need to quit trying to diminish the guy's impact and just accept him for who he is. Is he best offensive big man in the league? Certainly not. Is the best defensive big man in the league? Maybe, but it's debatable at this point. Regardless, he's one of the most well-rounded centers in the NBA, and fans should learn to appreciate him for it instead of criticizing him for what he isn't.

nickdymez
01-21-2014, 03:49 PM
Calling Howard "above average defensively" and "average offensively" is a massive understatement. He's easily one of the 4-5 most impactful defensive centers in the league and how many big men in the league score 18 points a night with a 58%+ TS%? I'll go ahead and give you the answer. Very, very few.

People need to quit trying to diminish the guy's impact and just accept him for who he is. Is he best offensive big man in the league? Certainly not. Is the best defensive big man in the league? Maybe, but it's debatable at this point. Regardless, he's one of the most well-rounded centers in the NBA, and fans should learn to appreciate him for it instead of criticizing him for what he isn't.

I will not appreciate him at all. I appreciate greatness, he's not great. I dont care what his numbers say.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 03:49 PM
It looks like your going off what you read on websites and what not. Going off numbers and giving Dwight the slight edge over Ewing is ridiculous. Ewing played on much better teams than Dwight did during their playoff runs, so Dwight had to shoulder most of the load. BUt having watched the two of them play, Dwight is no where near the caliber player Ewing was.

I also watched Patrick play and witnessed him regularly choke in the postseason. I think it's funny you give credit to Ewing for playing on better teams and posting inferior numbers. How about giving credit to Dwight for taking an inferior team all the way to the finals while boasting superior numbers? Both guys had the same amount of postseason success, and Ewing played with more talent in New York than Dwight ever did in Orlando. That should account for something.

nickdymez
01-21-2014, 03:55 PM
I also watched Patrick play and witnessed him regularly choke in the postseason. I think it's funny you give credit to Ewing for playing on better teams and posting inferior numbers. How about giving credit to Dwight for taking an inferior team all the way to the finals while boasting superior numbers? Both guys had the same amount of postseason success, and Ewing played with more talent in New York than Dwight ever did in Orlando. That should account for something.

If by choke you mean play against one of the most stacked eras in the history of the eastern conference, so be it. Dwight never went though any greats like Ewing did to win. Those playoff series back then were brutal. Every team had a center that would be top 5 in todays NBA except the bulls.. And we all know who they had. But you can keep trying to convince us and yourself of Dwights greatness. Difference between Rocket and Lakers fans is that most of us knew Dwight wasnt **** at this time last year and wanted to trade him off. Rocket fans still have hope.

flea
01-21-2014, 03:55 PM
How is it not common knowledge that Duncan is still easily the best defensive big in the league? Yes, moreso than guys like Hibbert and Gasol. Do people really think the Spurs are this good because of Tony ****ing Parker?

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-21-2014, 03:57 PM
I also watched Patrick play and witnessed him regularly choke in the postseason. I think it's funny you give credit to Ewing for playing on better teams and posting inferior numbers. How about giving credit to Dwight for taking an inferior team all the way to the finals while boasting superior numbers? Both guys had the same amount of postseason success, and Ewing played with more talent in New York than Dwight ever did in Orlando. That should account for something.

To me, what Dwight did in getting the Magic to the finals was more impressive that Lebron getting the Cavs to the finals. Dwight beat much better teams with crap talent around him as well. And they actually put up a fight in the finals unlike the Cavs. Dwights numbers that year were Lebron-eske. Advanced stat wise anyway.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-21-2014, 04:04 PM
If by choke you mean play against one of the most stacked eras in the history of the eastern conference, so be it. Dwight never went though any greats like Ewing did to win. Those playoff series back then were brutal. Every team had a center that would be top 5 in todays NBA except the bulls.. And we all know who they had. But you can keep trying to convince us and yourself of Dwights greatness. Difference between Rocket and Lakers fans is that most of us knew Dwight wasnt **** at this time last year and wanted to trade him off. Rocket fans still have hope.

To be fair, those 90's teams did have great bigs, but they rarely had the necessary swing man to complement them. Ewing played with nobody, neither did Robinson, Hakeem, or Mourning. Shaq had Penny but Ewing never played them in the playoffs. As a matter of fact, the best big he played in the eastern playoffs during the 90's was Rik Smits.

Edit, It was actually Alonzo Mourning. He played both Rik and Alonzo multiple times.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 04:06 PM
Regardless, he's one of the most well-rounded centers in the NBA

no. well rounded would mean that he has an offensive game, which we all know he does not.
he's an above avg defender and rebounder, that's it.

again, dwight is not a bball player. he's an athlete that just happens to be tall.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 05:35 PM
no. well rounded would mean that he has an offensive game, which we all know he does not.
he's an above avg defender and rebounder, that's it.

again, dwight is not a bball player. he's an athlete that just happens to be tall.

Dwight does better offensively than all other Centers in the league not named DMC and Brook Lopez. and you act like athleticsm is all you need to succeed in the league. not true. plenty of players with above average athleticism and wing span with potential have entered the league and failed. to do what dwight does requires skills. you can't just come into the league and lead your position in scoring and offensive efficiency without skills.

and again, Dwight Howard is THE best Center in the league today because he's the ONLY Center that plays well on both end of the court. Marc Gasol, Drummond, and Hibbert all struggles to score and has NEVER lbeen the focus of their team's offense like Dwight has....and of those three, Hibbert struggles the most on offense posting below average FG% and TS% among Centers.

and all the Centers that does play better than Dwight offensively, all suck defensively. DMC is lazy on offense and Brook Lopez doesn't know how to rebound or defend.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2014, 05:48 PM
Why would you take worse players over him? Hibbert, Gasol, and Ibaka of all people? Do you have any reason whatsoever or you just genuinely don't like him? I hope it's that you just don't like him because if you think there's actual logic behind then I'm worried.

Hibbert and Gasol have actual post moves, play great D, pass well, and are not liabilities at the free throw line. They also don't routinely pick up bonehead fouls or techs that make them a non factor for the game. The same can be said for Ibaka who in addition to all that has actually stretched his range out for the occasional 3.

Most importantly all the players mentioned KNOW their role. They're comfortable impacting the game defensively first, and contributing where they can offensively. You never see them crying about not getting enough touches, even though they're far more offensively advanced than Mr Howard who's signature move is a running awkward looking hook that usually draws backboard.

That is why I would take the aforementioned players over Howard.

tr3ymill3r
01-21-2014, 06:10 PM
The fact that Dwight got that Orlando team to the finals is an accomplishment all by itself. A center can't walk the ball down the court and dump it inside to himself. Some people are going to hate on Dwight just as they did with LeBron before he won a ring. Haters hate, simply due to jealousy and lack of talent themselves.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 06:35 PM
If by choke you mean play against one of the most stacked eras in the history of the eastern conference, so be it.
First off, the Knicks didn't face the Bulls in every postseason series, so that point is a moot one. He also got murdered by Hakeem in 94 without Jordan in the league.


Dwight never went though any greats like Ewing did to win.
You're kidding, right? The 09 Magic beat Lebron's Cavs and the Pierce/Allen/Rondo Celtics team sans KG. Phenomenal teams? No. But damn good teams nontheless with First-Ballot Hall of Famers on the roster.


Those playoff series back then were brutal. Every team had a center that would be top 5 in todays NBA except the bulls.
This just isn't true. In the East, there was Mourning, Shaq and Ewing. Smits would be borderline top 5 in today's NBA, and Parish in the late 80s, early 90s would have been in that discussion. But that's about it. Laimbeer was way past his prime by the time he faced the Knicks in 1990, while the Cavs had no great center (Michael Cage) and Divac was pretty "meh" the two seasons he played in Charlotte.


And we all know who they had. But you can keep trying to convince us and yourself of Dwights greatness. Difference between Rocket and Lakers fans is that most of us knew Dwight wasnt **** at this time last year and wanted to trade him off. Rocket fans still have hope.
I'm not trying to say that Dwight is a top 5 all-time center or anything. But he's definitely been the best center of the past decade, you could make a case for him as a top 10-12 all-time center and he's most definitely going to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. That's not even debatable, IMO.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 06:37 PM
no. well rounded would mean that he has an offensive game, which we all know he does not.
he's an above avg defender and rebounder, that's it.

again, dwight is not a bball player. he's an athlete that just happens to be tall.

You don't know what the **** you're talking about. If "no offensive game" means scoring 18 points a game with a 58% TS%, then what the hell do you have to do to "have an offensive game."

Tony_Starks
01-21-2014, 06:57 PM
You don't know what the **** you're talking about. If "no offensive game" means scoring 18 points a game with a 58% TS%, then what the hell do you have to do to "have an offensive game."

You do realize it is possible to score points and still have no offensive game right? Seriously, not even being funny. If player A scores 18 points off of mostly dunks, put backs, and free throws...... and player B scores 15 points off post and pivot moves, face up moves, up and unders... etc, you would still say player A is the "better" offensive player?

Because skill wise Dwight is extremely limited. Most neutral fans easily recognize that. The only ones that defend that tend to be Rocket fans or hard core Dwight fans....

Vinylman
01-21-2014, 07:11 PM
He is, you just need to watch him play.

numbers don't back it up... i am sure your watching is a much more critical view though

Vinylman
01-21-2014, 07:12 PM
There's a typo in there so maybe that's why you misread it. But I'm not saying he played great in the finals. I'm saying that year (regular season), he played great.

gotcha... i thought you meant in the finals...

D12 had his best year that year but nothing like it since

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 07:15 PM
Hibbert and Gasol have actual post moves, play great D, pass well, and are not liabilities at the free throw line. They also don't routinely pick up bonehead fouls or techs that make them a non factor for the game. The same can be said for Ibaka who in addition to all that has actually stretched his range out for the occasional 3.

Most importantly all the players mentioned KNOW their role. They're comfortable impacting the game defensively first, and contributing where they can offensively. You never see them crying about not getting enough touches, even though they're far more offensively advanced than Mr Howard who's signature move is a running awkward looking hook that usually draws backboard.

That is why I would take the aforementioned players over Howard.

i have just ONE question for you...can any of those 2 players carry a team to the finals?

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 07:28 PM
You don't know what the **** you're talking about. If "no offensive game" means scoring 18 points a game with a 58% TS%, then what the hell do you have to do to "have an offensive game."

look at the video I posted earlier as evidence of offensive game lol.
this is dwights offense game: lobs, put back dunks. not post moves, not jump shots, not hook shots. it's pretty hard to miss point blank.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 07:28 PM
i have just ONE question for you...can any of those 2 players carry a team to the finals?

during that year in the EC? easily.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2014, 07:31 PM
i have just ONE question for you...can any of those 2 players carry a team to the finals?

Singlehandedly? No sir.

I have just ONE question for you: Are you seriously under the illusion that Dwight at this point in his career can "carry" a team to the finals?

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 07:32 PM
You do realize it is possible to score points and still have no offensive game right? Seriously, not even being funny.If player A scores 18 points off of mostly dunks, put backs, and free throws...... and player B scores 15 points off post and pivot moves, face up moves, up and unders... etc, you would still say player A is the "better" offensive player?

Because skill wise Dwight is extremely limited. Most neutral fans easily recognize that. The only ones that defend that tend to be Rocket fans or hard core Dwight fans....

if you have no idea how moronic that assertion is. if athleticism is all you need to score18 ppg, we would have A LOT more 18 ppg scorer in the league. but fact of the matter is, you need more than just athleticism to score. the league has seen its fair share of hype atheltic players with potential that has failed to do anything in the league.

the moronic-ness of that statement makes the rest of your post moot.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 07:35 PM
during that year in the EC? easily.

so let me get this straight...you SERIOUSLY think Marc Gaosl, a player who has NEVER averaged more than 14 ppg his entire career, and Roy Hibbert, a player who struggles to even score 12 ppg while doing it at below average efficiency for his position, can carry a team to the finals in that year's EC? can you confirm that?

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 07:42 PM
so let me get this straight...you SERIOUSLY think Marc Gaosl, a player who has NEVER averaged more than 14 ppg his entire career, and Roy Hibbert, a player who struggles to even score 12 ppg while doing it at below average efficiency for his position, can carry a team to the finals in that year's EC? can you confirm that?

no, and you can't disprove it either, so you can drop this silly little theoretical BS right now.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 07:47 PM
no, and you can't disprove it either, so you can drop this silly little theoretical BS right now.

i can definitely prove it by pointing out that no team in the entire history of the NBA has ever been able to achieve anything with a player who struggles to score more than 14 ppg his entire career as the centerpiece. in fact, the idea is so moronic, no team has ever tried....kind of show you how dumb you are for thinking Marc Gasol and Roy Hibbert are better players than Dwight Howard.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 07:49 PM
if you have no idea how moronic that assertion is. if athleticism is all you need to score18 ppg, we would have A LOT more 18 ppg scorer in the league. but fact of the matter is, you need more than just athleticism to score. the league has seen its fair share of hype atheltic players with potential that has failed to do anything in the league.


name a few athletic 7 footers that have failed. no, kwame is not athletic.

the only other big men that come close to dwight's athleticism in recent years are DJ and mcgee.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 07:50 PM
i can definitely prove it by pointing out that no team in the entire history of the NBA has ever been able to achieve anything with a player who struggles to score more than 14 ppg his entire career as the centerpiece. in fact, the idea is so moronic, no team has ever tried....kind of show you how dumb you are for thinking Marc Gasol and Roy Hibbert are better players than Dwight Howard.

you fail at logic.

mania03
01-21-2014, 07:52 PM
+1 and I am a knick fan

LOLL yeah chandler def does not make them better.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 07:55 PM
look at the video I posted earlier as evidence of offensive game lol.
this is dwights offense game: lobs, put back dunks. not post moves, not jump shots, not hook shots. it's pretty hard to miss point blank.

Man.... Than it must be somebody else wearing No. 12 who's hitting jump hooks and taking defenders off the dribble on the low block. Or is it you who is talking out of his *** because he doesn't watch nearly as many Rockets games as he claims to? I'm going to go ahead and trust my eyes over the vague generalizations of some random PSD poster whose posts I give zero ****s about.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2014, 07:56 PM
The Dwight groupies have convinced me. 99% of the civilized basketball world are wrong. Dwight is a dominant offensive juggernaut that is bound to lead the Rockets to multiple titles and glory days unseen since the great Hakeem the Dream!

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 07:57 PM
look at the video I posted earlier as evidence of offensive game lol.
this is dwights offense game: lobs, put back dunks. not post moves, not jump shots, not hook shots. it's pretty hard to miss point blank.

it's pretty hard to miss point blank? try telling that to Roy Hibbert, a player you think is better than Dwight Howard.

and you saying Howard has no post moves prove to me that you never watched him play. he has post moves. and you showing one video clip "proves" nothing. you should watch the highlights of last night's game HOuston played vs Portland on ESPN...the highlights featured Howard scoring 24 points with an array of post moves.

mania03
01-21-2014, 07:59 PM
Dwight is terrible. This guy isn't a winner he just wants to get paid. Been crying like a little ***** since leaving Orlando. And if you think im wrong just ask the TNT guys.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 08:01 PM
name a few athletic 7 footers that have failed. no, kwame is not athletic.

the only other big men that come close to dwight's athleticism in recent years are DJ and mcgee.

you contradicted youself in your own post.


you fail at logic.

says the person who thinks Roy Hibbert, a player who struggles to average even 12 ppg, can carry a team to the finals.

mania03
01-21-2014, 08:08 PM
you contradicted youself in your own post.



says the person who thinks Roy Hibbert, a player who struggles to average even 12 ppg, can carry a team to the finals.


I doubt the Indiana Pacers would wanna replace Hibbert with Howard? Plus Howard is not a team player hes never gonna win a chip in his life. He's not gonna win any of his child support cases either...:)

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 08:26 PM
you contradicted youself in your own post.



says the person who thinks Roy Hibbert, a player who struggles to average even 12 ppg, can carry a team to the finals.

says the person who uses a non sequitur and thinks he's won an argument.
since you're obviously not bright enough to follow along, I'll use a parallel to perhaps make it easier for you to understand.
"Ever since I got here 2 days ago, it hasn't stopped raining. I must be the reason it's raining."



i can definitely prove it by pointing out that no team in the entire history of the NBA has ever been able to achieve anything with a player who struggles to score more than 14 ppg his entire career as the centerpiece. in fact, the idea is so moronic, no team has ever tried....kind of show you how dumb you are for thinking Marc Gasol and Roy Hibbert are better players than Dwight Howard.

summary: you've proven nothing.
pro-tip: stay in skool so you can get an edumacation.

god why do I argue with idiots?

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 08:27 PM
For anyone claiming Dwight has semblance of an offensive game, it took me about 5 seconds to Google a Youtube video of Rockets highlights from this season that prove otherwise. You don't even have to watch the whole video. Just pay attention to the highlights from 0:38-1:45.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMgU-A82018

That's probably 10-12 solid examples of spins, jump hooks, pump fakes and other post moves. If you watch the whole video, there's probably at least 35-40 solid post moves by Dwight. Note that the video was dated Jan. 3, so you're talking only about 2 months of basketball. Are there a lot of lobs and dunks? Of course. But there's isn't a big man in the league whose highlight video wouldn't be mostly dunks.

Does this prove the guy is an elite offensive post presence? Hell no, but it also proves he's not some stiff or a completely unskilled player who relies solely on his athleticism.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 08:29 PM
For anyone claiming Dwight has semblance of an offensive game, it took me about 5 seconds to Google a Youtube video of Rockets highlights from this season that prove otherwise. You don't even have to watch the whole video. Just pay attention to the highlights from 0:38-1:45.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMgU-A82018

That's probably 10-12 solid examples of spins, jump hooks, pump fakes and other post moves. If you watch the whole video, there's probably at least 35-40 solid post moves by Dwight. Note that the video was dated Jan. 3, so you're talking only about 2 months of basketball. Are there a lot of lobs and dunks? Of course. But there's isn't a big man in the league whose highlight video wouldn't be mostly dunks.

Does this prove the guy is an elite offensive post presence? Hell no, but it also proves he's not some stiff or a completely unskilled player who relies solely on his athleticism.

lol, youtube bball mix tapes as "proof". I really question the school system in Houston.
hey, i saw howard hit a 3 the other day. he should consider entering the 3 pt shoot out AS weekend :D:D:D

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 08:30 PM
The Dwight groupies have convinced me. 99% of the civilized basketball world are wrong. Dwight is a dominant offensive juggernaut that is bound to lead the Rockets to multiple titles and glory days unseen since the great Hakeem the Dream!

God... Why do you have to take everything and blow it out of proportion? I never said he was a phenomenal offensive post player. But he's got a few moves and he's relatively skilled in the low post. He's no Olajuwon or McHale, but he's also not Mutumbo. He doesn't deserve praise as some omnipotent offensive being. Nor does he deserve criticism as some neanderthal with a basketball in his hand.

Everything doesn't have to be black and white. There is a gray area where most of us live. Come join me in it sometime.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 08:33 PM
says the person who uses a non sequitur and thinks he's won an argument.
since you're obviously not bright enough to follow along, I'll use a parallel to perhaps make it easier for you to understand.
"Ever since I got here 2 days ago, it hasn't stopped raining. I must be the reason it's raining."



summary: you've proven nothing.
pro-tip: stay in skool so you can get an edumacation.

god why do I argue with idiots?

so now you're arguing that players who has never averaged more than 14 ppg their retire career can lead their teams to the finals as the centerpiece? wow :pity: what am i still talking to you? you're the definition of a "hater."

CluTcH_c1tY
01-21-2014, 08:38 PM
I doubt the Indiana Pacers would wanna replace Hibbert with Howard? Plus Howard is not a team player hes never gonna win a chip in his life. He's not gonna win any of his child support cases either...:)

Hey now leave the baby mommas out of it! It doesn't matter what Dwight does. People will never be satisfied and find a reason to critique his overall game. As a Rockets fans he does everything well on both sides of the court, while not receiving a lot of touches. I think the offense needs to make a better effort of getting Dwight 20 touches a game, instead of shooting the 3 ball way too damn much. BTW, why isn't Yao included in the compiled list of Centers? I know his tenure was short, but when he was in his prime he was a very good center. One could only imagine what that man could of accomplished if he was able to stay healthy.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 08:43 PM
lol, youtube bball mix tapes.
hey, i saw howard hit a 3 the other day. he should consider entering the 3 pt shoot out AS weekend :D:D:D

Except it's a 10-minute long video with probably 80-100 highlights over the course of about 30 games. That's a pretty solid sample size of his time in Houston. But hey, why actually watch him play and make an intelligent determination when you be an ignorant tool and speak in generalizations based on things you see other people write?

What the hell do I know, right? I've only watched 90% of Rockets games this season. Clearly when I see him back down a defender and put up a jump hook or spin around a defender and take it to the hole half a dozen times a game, my eyes were deceiving me. I've only been watching basketball for 20 years....

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 08:46 PM
says the person who uses a non sequitur and thinks he's won an argument.
since you're obviously not bright enough to follow along, I'll use a parallel to perhaps make it easier for you to understand.
"Ever since I got here 2 days ago, it hasn't stopped raining. I must be the reason it's raining."

summary: you've proven nothing.
pro-tip: stay in skool so you can get an edumacation.

god why do I argue with idiots?

lol.... Congratulations on passing high school level English classes. I'll be impressed by your knowledge of the language when you show you can type worth a damn. What are you going to do with your next argument? Draw comparisons with Dwight's offensive game and Piggy from Lord of the Flies?

Tony_Starks
01-21-2014, 08:47 PM
God... Why do you have to take everything and blow it out of proportion? I never said he was a phenomenal offensive post player. But he's got a few moves and he's relatively skilled in the low post. He's no Olajuwon or McHale, but he's also not Mutumbo. He doesn't deserve praise as some omnipotent offensive being. Nor does he deserve criticism as some neanderthal with a basketball in his hand.

Everything doesn't have to be black and white. There is a gray area where most of us live. Come join me in it sometime.

Have you noticed that virtually no one outside of Houston thinks he's a very good offensive player? Including analyst, former coaches, players, and fans in general?

Do you think that's a coincidence? A conspiracy? Do we just all hate him or something? Where did this tremendously popular prevailing opinion that he's offensively limited come from?

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 08:52 PM
lol, youtube bball mix tapes as "proof". I really question the school system in Houston.
hey, i saw howard hit a 3 the other day. he should consider entering the 3 pt shoot out AS weekend :D:D:D

weren't you the one that posted a video clip of Dwight Howard being stripped while trying to score as "prove" that he doesn't have post moves? now you're making fun of someone else for doing the same thing? dude. how dense are you?

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 08:54 PM
Have you noticed that virtually no one outside of Houston thinks he's a very good offensive player? Including analyst, former coaches, players, and fans in general?

Do you think that's a coincidence? A conspiracy? Do we just all hate him or something? Where did this tremendously popular prevailing opinion that he's offensively limited come from?

during the time that Chris Paul was injured while he was with New Orleans...EVERYONE forgot how good Chris Paul was and was saying how Deron Williams is supposedly the best PG in the league and has surpassed Chris Paul. we all know how that turned out. Just saying. The majority of the Americans voted for Bush Jr. as President prior to his first term because they all thought he would be a good President...we all know how that turned out too.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 08:55 PM
weren't you the one that posted a video clip of Dwight Howard being stripped while trying to score as "prove" that he doesn't have post moves? now you're making fun of someone else for doing the same thing? dude. how dense are you?

show me where I did that.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 08:57 PM
during the time that Chris Paul was injured while he was with New Orleans...EVERYONE forgot how good Chris Paul was and was saying how Deron Williams is supposedly the best PG in the league and has surpassed Chris Paul. we all know how that turned out. Just saying. The majority of the Americans voted for Bush Jr. as President prior to his first term because they all thought he would be a good President...we all know how that turned out too.

what's your point?
srsly, stop trying to prove things. you've already shown us how horrible you are at this logic thing.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 09:05 PM
Have you noticed that virtually no one outside of Houston thinks he's a very good offensive player? Including analyst, former coaches, players, and fans in general?

Do you think that's a coincidence? A conspiracy? Do we just all hate him or something? Where did this tremendously popular prevailing opinion that he's offensively limited come from?

I don't think anybody thinks Dwight has a horrible offensive game. I think people's expectations of Dwight are unrealistic, because he has been the best center in the league for so long, and everyone wants him to be Hakeem or Shaq on the low block. Anybody who can look objectively at the situation without looking through the lens of the elite 90s centers will find a pretty decent offensive center.

And even if Dwight did get 90 percent of his baskets from dunks (a gross generalization that isn't true), since when does that make someone a bad offensive player? Would you rather have a center with a mid-range jumper who scores 14-15 points a night with a 54-55% TS% or a center who makes most of his shots within five feet, but scores 18 a night with a 58% TS%? I'd take the latter more often than not.

Here are a few facts via 82games.com. In his time with Houston, Dwight has been assisted on only 48 percent of his made baskets and only 12 percent of his FGA have come from dunks. But he's only good on offense for dunks and lobs, right? And clearly he's incapable of getting his own points without the help of the pick and roll? So either your assumptions of Dwight are wrong or the stats are wrong. :shrug:

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 09:05 PM
show me where I did that.

because you spend the whole thread arguiing howard sucks because he has no post moves then proceed to post this:


lol @ dwight post move.
travel, elbow the defender and still get stripped.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10325812&startTime=00:41


what's your point?
srsly, stop trying to prove things. you've already shown us how horrible you are at this logic thing.

says the person who criticizes Howard's offensive game then turns around and pick players who are worse than howard offensively as examples of "better" players.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2014, 09:07 PM
I actually wish Dwight was as good as Rox fans think he is. Unfortunately I know better....,

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 09:08 PM
show me where I did that.


what's your point?
srsly, stop trying to prove things. you've already shown us how horrible you are at this logic thing.

I've yet to see you make a single valid basketball point aside from posting a Youtube video. All you've done is criticized his logic and then ripped me for using a Youtube video, which is exactly the same thing you did like an hour ago. If you're not going to actually argue basketball, you're not worth arguing with in the first place.

Chronz
01-21-2014, 09:10 PM
name a few athletic 7 footers that have failed. no, kwame is not athletic.

the only other big men that come close to dwight's athleticism in recent years are DJ and mcgee.

Just how tall do you think Dwight is?

There is a gray area where most of us live. Come join me in it sometime.

this

Chronz
01-21-2014, 09:11 PM
The Dwight groupies have convinced me. 99% of the civilized basketball world are wrong. Dwight is a dominant offensive juggernaut that is bound to lead the Rockets to multiple titles and glory days unseen since the great Hakeem the Dream!

Says who?

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 09:11 PM
I actually wish Dwight was as good as Rox fans think he is. Unfortunately I know better....,

Jesus... Would you get over yourself? How many times do I have to repeat that I don't think this guy is a phenomenal offensive player? I've said it half a dozen times, I've posted a 10 minute Youtube video with dozens of examples and I've provided several statistical arguments for the basis of my points. You have done nothing. All you do is consistently repeat how we're overrating him without any basis or statistical argument whatsoever. You sound like a broken record, except it's not a good one.

mightybosstone
01-21-2014, 09:14 PM
I think I'm done with this argument. I'm not going to continuously post the same points and the same statistics over and over again to posters who refuse to read them or have any kind of open mind on the subject. You want to believe Dwight sucks? Fine, he sucks. I would suggest watching him play against your teams so you can see how useless an offensive player he really is.

FOBolous
01-21-2014, 09:33 PM
I've yet to see you make a single valid basketball point aside from posting a Youtube video. All you've done is criticized his logic and then ripped me for using a Youtube video, which is exactly the same thing you did like an hour ago. If you're not going to actually argue basketball, you're not worth arguing with in the first place.

personal attacks is what people do when they know they have no grounds to stand on. instead of proving their point with facts and suppording evidence, they attempt to make themselves look better, and their stance stronger (in their minds), by attempting to make the other person look bad.

5ass
01-21-2014, 09:35 PM
I think I'm done with this argument. I'm not going to continuously post the same points and the same statistics over and over again to posters who refuse to read them or have any kind of open mind on the subject. You want to believe Dwight sucks? Fine, he sucks. I would suggest watching him play against your teams so you can see how useless an offensive player he really is.

lol, i avoided the argument in the first place because i knew this was going to happen. its crazy how they think someone with "zero offensive game" gets doubled and fouled so much and still scores an efficient 20ppg.

Saddletramp
01-21-2014, 10:48 PM
because you spend the whole thread arguiing howard sucks because he has no post moves then proceed to post this:





says the person who criticizes Howard's offensive game then turns around and pick players who are worse than howard offensively as examples of "better" players.

Owned.

And one side of the argument is "Howard sucks and has no offensive game and sucks and blahblah, you too" and the other side is "He's no Olajuwon or Shaq but he's pretty darn good and here's some stats and a ten minute long youtube highlight reel from just this year to back it up".

Trolls gonna troll. Ignore them.

Tony_Starks
01-21-2014, 10:56 PM
I'm sure glad this is a open NBA forum where we're allowed to have our own subjective opinions and we can respectfully agree to disagree without resorting to personal attacks....

Denverbronco007
01-21-2014, 11:07 PM
[QUOTE=nickdymez;27842612]It looks like your going off what you read on websites and what not. Going off numbers and giving Dwight the slight edge over Ewing is ridiculous. Ewing played on much better teams than Dwight did during their playoff runs, so Dwight had to shoulder most of the load. BUt having watched the two of them play, Dwight is no where near the caliber player Ewing was.[/QUOTE



I watched them both play, and Ewing was a beast. Guy could shoot

Denverbronco007
01-21-2014, 11:11 PM
Dwight does not suck people. He just has other quality people starting along side him that can score the basketball also. If Houston wanted to they could go to Dwight more in the post, and I'm sure he would put up better numbers.

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 11:17 PM
I've yet to see you make a single valid basketball point aside from posting a Youtube video. All you've done is criticized his logic and then ripped me for using a Youtube video, which is exactly the same thing you did like an hour ago. If you're not going to actually argue basketball, you're not worth arguing with in the first place.

my posting of the ESPN video was not to prove anything. I didn't go "HAI GUISE! look at the video proof I have of dwight's lack of offensive game here!!!11!!!" like mightbossdude
it was merely an LOL @ dwight's ineptitude.

You can almost tell what's going thru his mind at each exact moment.

"ok, so this is where hakeem told me to spin around to my left. doh! i just used the wrong pivot foot.
gosh, did I just travel? oh good, the refs didn't catch it.
ok, this is where mchale says don't be afraid to create space with my elbow. bam, take that. outta mah way son.
time to go up stron... crap, goshdarnit I got stripped down low. again."

Htownballa1622
01-21-2014, 11:19 PM
I'm so glad mbt and fob are in here saying everything I'd like to say.

There's one laker fan that's obviously ignorant/delusional and one Heat fan who contradicts themselves and doesn't know wth they're talking about.

Bravo mbt and fob for having the patience to deal with these posters.

Pierre The Poet
01-21-2014, 11:21 PM
He's an all star in the NBA. That's nothing to be "embarrassed" about

blahblahyoutoo
01-21-2014, 11:22 PM
personal attacks is what people do when they know they have no grounds to stand on. instead of proving their point with facts and suppording evidence, they attempt to make themselves look better, and their stance stronger (in their minds), by attempting to make the other person look bad.

make stupid statements (and lets admit it, that's one of the worst arguments I've ever seen) and I'll call you out on it.
wtf do you expect me to say? "oh, your non-existing logic is not sound, but I'll go right ahead and agree with you. you're right, I'm wrong."

figure out what a non sequitur is yet?
i can use another example to explain it to you again if necessary.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 12:38 AM
make stupid statements (and lets admit it, that's one of the worst arguments I've ever seen) and I'll call you out on it.
wtf do you expect me to say? "oh, your non-existing logic is not sound, but I'll go right ahead and agree with you. you're right, I'm wrong."

figure out what a non sequitur is yet?
i can use another example to explain it to you again if necessary.

it's sad how you're trying REALLY hard to make me look bad and point out the "problems" with my logic when your whole "Dwight Howard sucks because he sucks on offense but all these other Centers who performs worse than him offensively are better" stance is completely void of logic. i'm with MBT. I'm done with this argument. you state your opinions as fact without any logic, reasoning, evidence, or statistics to back it up and continue to ignore every poster in this thread who refuted you with logic, reasoning evidence, and/or statics while repeating your already disproven opinions over and over and over again like a broken record. you even tried to argue against me when i stated no team can achieve success with a player that struggles to average 14 ppg as the centerpiece. your lowest point is when you tried to make fun of someone for posting a 10 minute video clip of what he's talking about when you yourself did the exact same thing with a 2> min video. you, sir, is the definition of a hater and a troll. you're no longer worth my time, and i will move on with my life.

P.S. I've blocked you so I can't read anything you post anymore.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 12:47 AM
I'm so glad mbt and fob are in here saying everything I'd like to say.

There's one laker fan that's obviously ignorant/delusional and one Heat fan who contradicts themselves and doesn't know wth they're talking about.

Bravo mbt and fob for having the patience to deal with these posters.

agreed completely. especially that last bolded part.

Pierre The Poet
01-22-2014, 03:42 AM
it's sad how you're trying REALLY hard to make me look bad and point out the "problems" with my logic when your whole "Dwight Howard sucks because he sucks on offense but all these other Centers who performs worse than him offensively are better" stance is completely void of logic. i'm with MBT. I'm done with this argument. you state your opinions as fact without any logic, reasoning, evidence, or statistics to back it up and continue to ignore every poster in this thread who refuted you with logic, reasoning evidence, and/or statics while repeating your already disproven opinions over and over and over again like a broken record. you even tried to argue against me when i stated no team can achieve success with a player that struggles to average 14 ppg as the centerpiece. your lowest point is when you tried to make fun of someone for posting a 10 minute video clip of what he's talking about when you yourself did the exact same thing with a 2< min video. you, sir, is the definition of a hater and a troll. you're no longer worth my time, and i will move on with my life.

P.S. I've blocked you so I can't read anything you post anymore.

Why'd you block him lol, it's really not that big of a deal

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 09:24 AM
Why'd you block him lol, it's really not that big of a deal

cause he annoys me :shrug: i've only blocked two other members on this site...john_wall_era and farren.louis. both are known trolls.

tr3ymill3r
01-22-2014, 09:47 AM
PSD has officially turned into Xbox Live with 12 year olds creating accounts just to troll and those who know nothing about basketball before 2001.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 10:03 AM
Just how tall do you think Dwight is?


this

i don't think he knows that Dwight isn't anywhere close to being 7 foot

mightybosstone
01-22-2014, 10:33 AM
make stupid statements (and lets admit it, that's one of the worst arguments I've ever seen) and I'll call you out on it.
wtf do you expect me to say? "oh, your non-existing logic is not sound, but I'll go right ahead and agree with you. you're right, I'm wrong."

figure out what a non sequitur is yet?
i can use another example to explain it to you again if necessary.

If you have nothing basketball related to add, you should just quit. No one is interested in or impressed by your use of an 11th-grade English literary device or your freshman college understanding of logic you picked up at your local junior college for 100 bucks a class. You want to impress somebody? Have an original thought about the NBA and provide evidence for your talking point.

blahblahyoutoo
01-22-2014, 10:59 AM
it's sad how you're trying REALLY hard to make me look bad and point out the "problems" with my logic when your whole "Dwight Howard sucks because he sucks on offense but all these other Centers who performs worse than him offensively are better" stance is completely void of logic. i'm with MBT. I'm done with this argument. you state your opinions as fact without any logic, reasoning, evidence, or statistics to back it up and continue to ignore every poster in this thread who refuted you with logic, reasoning evidence, and/or statics while repeating your already disproven opinions over and over and over again like a broken record. you even tried to argue against me when i stated no team can achieve success with a player that struggles to average 14 ppg as the centerpiece. your lowest point is when you tried to make fun of someone for posting a 10 minute video clip of what he's talking about when you yourself did the exact same thing with a 2> min video. you, sir, is the definition of a hater and a troll. you're no longer worth my time, and i will move on with my life.

P.S. I've blocked you so I can't read anything you post anymore.

wow, you're slower than I thought.
"because it has never happened" is logical fallacy. can you get that through your thick skull?
until you understand, please stop mentioning the words logic, evidence, reasoning.

your reading comprehension is subpar as well.
I did no such thing with any video trying to prove dwight's lack of offensive prowess. it was merely for laughs.

blahblahyoutoo
01-22-2014, 10:59 AM
Why'd you block him lol, it's really not that big of a deal

because he's weak minded.

kobe4thewinbang
01-22-2014, 11:01 AM
:horse::horse::horse::horse::horse::horse::horse:: horse::horse::horse::horse:

blahblahyoutoo
01-22-2014, 11:01 AM
i don't think he knows that Dwight isn't anywhere close to being 7 foot

6'11" which is as close at you can get to 7'.
also the same height as another athletic big I mentioned - DJ.

blahblahyoutoo
01-22-2014, 11:26 AM
If you have nothing basketball related to add, you should just quit. No one is interested in or impressed by your use of an 11th-grade English literary device or your freshman college understanding of logic you picked up at your local junior college for 100 bucks a class. You want to impress somebody? Have an original thought about the NBA and provide evidence for your talking point.

want to know what the most damning evidence is?
all the staunchest defenders of dwight are rockets fans. where were you guys when he as in LA/ORL?

oh, it's because you didn't catch his games before but get to watch him play more often now? and because there's very few ORL fans on this board to defend him? he was injured in LA last season and played sub-par?

a truly talented star player will have no problems finding members here defending them. look at Love. there's like a total of 3 MN fans on PSD. yet you have lots of non Wolves fans singing his praises. same thing with Cousins.

rockets-fan
01-22-2014, 12:08 PM
I actually wish Dwight was as good as Rox fans think he is. Unfortunately I know better....,


He's not as good as most Rox fans make him to be , but he's no where near as bad as most other NBA fans make him out to be. He has added a few post moves he didn't have before. That baby hook, and he has that spin move to get to the basket, I'm actually quite impressed because I can't stand Howard, but he is still no where near the Howard we need to make a championship run, hopefully with more time with Hakeem and Mchale he becomes the player we need.

People stop hating because of dwightmare, he has obviously matured or at least moved on from that and is playing at a high level again, just let it go and appreciate his game which he has improved believe it or not.

Tony_Starks
01-22-2014, 12:13 PM
I really don't see why (new)Dwight fans are so sensitive? I don't really see anyone saying he's "garbage." He is what he is: athletically a beast, fundamentally weak. Why is that so offensive? It's still enough to keep him hovering around 20 and 10, allstar status, and best center in the league conversation.

What's wrong with that? And if someone would rather have someone that scores a lil less but is more reliable/conventional in the paint what's wrong with that?

Why so serious.....

rockets-fan
01-22-2014, 12:17 PM
I really don't see why (new)Dwight fans are so sensitive? I don't really see anyone saying he's "garbage." He is what he is: athletically a beast, fundamentally weak. Why is that so offensive? It's still enough to keep him hovering around 20 and 10, allstar status, and best center in the league conversation.

What's wrong with that? And if someone would rather have someone that scores a lil less but is more reliable/conventional in the paint what's wrong with that?

Why so serious.....

I agree with this

blahblahyoutoo
01-22-2014, 12:44 PM
He's not as good as most Rox fans make him to be , but he's no where near as bad as most other NBA fans make him out to be. He has added a few post moves he didn't have before. That baby hook, and he has that spin move to get to the basket, I'm actually quite impressed because I can't stand Howard, but he is still no where near the Howard we need to make a championship run, hopefully with more time with Hakeem and Mchale he becomes the player we need.

People stop hating because of dwightmare, he has obviously matured or at least moved on from that and is playing at a high level again, just let it go and appreciate his game which he has improved believe it or not.

i can live with this :cheers:

ghettosean
01-22-2014, 12:50 PM
I really don't see why (new)Dwight fans are so sensitive? I don't really see anyone saying he's "garbage." He is what he is: athletically a beast, fundamentally weak. Why is that so offensive? It's still enough to keep him hovering around 20 and 10, allstar status, and best center in the league conversation.

What's wrong with that? And if someone would rather have someone that scores a lil less but is more reliable/conventional in the paint what's wrong with that?

Why so serious.....

This is pretty much what I'm saying from my 1st post... Dwight is THE STRONGEST BEAST IN THE NBA TODAY this is a fact it's not a diss but with that being said he should be able to get into the post at will and get any shot off he wants a la Shaq but he just hasn't lived up to his potential at all. Dwight is and always was a defensive monster but he just never lived up to his full potential and I don't think he ever will. I could just never understand this since he had the greatest mentors a center could have --> Ewing, Hakeem, Kareem, McHale... etc and he could just never put it together this is why I'm saying he should be embarrassed. He's definitely a top center in todays game but he's definitely not the best (in my opinion) and he 100% has not lived up to his potential as a basketball player.

It is what it is :shrug:

ghettosean
01-22-2014, 01:06 PM
Just an FYI for those who are saying Hibbert is not even close to Howard on defense or in regards to the best center in the league below is a link for ESPN's forecast on the DPOY award.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10331297/2014-winter-forecast-defensive-player-year

Hibbert >>>>> Howard

Stinkyoutsider
01-22-2014, 01:46 PM
I don't think Howard has ever been the most skilled big in the league but he was the best because no one could contain his athleticism. Honestly, he hasn't been the same since he had back surgery.

He needs to develop a shooting form and touch. He's at a point in his career where his athleticism will only get him so far. When he was in Orlando, it wouldn't be a shock for him to grab 15 boards in a game. Now, anything over 12 and I say he had a fantastic game on the boards.

I'm thinking he's right there defensively with other great bigs (not sure if I can say he's Mutombo like though).

I agree Love is more skilled than Dwight but at times, I wouldn't look past dumping the ball into Howard and letting him create his own shot to get me points. Haven't really seen Love be able to carry a team by creating his own shot yet. Howard is the better defender and Love is more skilled and talented offensively.

Pierre The Poet
01-22-2014, 02:10 PM
He's not as good as most Rox fans make him to be , but he's no where near as bad as most other NBA fans make him out to be. He has added a few post moves he didn't have before. That baby hook, and he has that spin move to get to the basket, I'm actually quite impressed because I can't stand Howard, but he is still no where near the Howard we need to make a championship run, hopefully with more time with Hakeem and Mchale he becomes the player we need.

People stop hating because of dwightmare, he has obviously matured or at least moved on from that and is playing at a high level again, just let it go and appreciate his game which he has improved believe it or not.

He's always had those 2 moves you mentioned lol...Dwight is good though, no doubt

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 02:21 PM
Just an FYI for those who are saying Hibbert is not even close to Howard on defense or in regards to the best center in the league below is a link for ESPN's forecast on the DPOY award.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10331297/2014-winter-forecast-defensive-player-year

Hibbert >>>>> Howard

i don't think anyone in this thread has questioned Hibbert's defensive poweress. however, arguments has been made that, despite Hibbert's defensive impact, Howard is still the better Center due to Hibbert's below average efficiency on the offensive end and Howard's above average performance on both end of the court. Howard is the ONLY Center in the league today who dominates on both end of the court, This, imo, makes him the best Center in the league right now.

FOBolous
01-22-2014, 02:24 PM
He's not as good as most Rox fans make him to be , but he's no where near as bad as most other NBA fans make him out to be. He has added a few post moves he didn't have before. That baby hook, and he has that spin move to get to the basket, I'm actually quite impressed because I can't stand Howard, but he is still no where near the Howard we need to make a championship run, hopefully with more time with Hakeem and Mchale he becomes the player we need.

People stop hating because of dwightmare, he has obviously matured or at least moved on from that and is playing at a high level again, just let it go and appreciate his game which he has improved believe it or not.

agreed completely :clap:

nickdymez
01-22-2014, 02:51 PM
it's sad how you're trying REALLY hard to make me look bad and point out the "problems" with my logic when your whole "Dwight Howard sucks because he sucks on offense but all these other Centers who performs worse than him offensively are better" stance is completely void of logic. i'm with MBT. I'm done with this argument. you state your opinions as fact without any logic, reasoning, evidence, or statistics to back it up and continue to ignore every poster in this thread who refuted you with logic, reasoning evidence, and/or statics while repeating your already disproven opinions over and over and over again like a broken record. you even tried to argue against me when i stated no team can achieve success with a player that struggles to average 14 ppg as the centerpiece. your lowest point is when you tried to make fun of someone for posting a 10 minute video clip of what he's talking about when you yourself did the exact same thing with a 2> min video. you, sir, is the definition of a hater and a troll. you're no longer worth my time, and i will move on with my life.

P.S. I've blocked you so I can't read anything you post anymore.

lmfao!