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View Full Version : Not only Raptors become a good team, Rudy Gay has became good after trade



LTBaByyy
01-15-2014, 02:06 PM
He is averaging 20.5 points per game on .523 FG % since the trade!

We have all made fun of him being a chucker but if he keeps that up, he can be the 5th best SF in the NBA behind George, Anthony, Durant, and Lebron.

He has actually made the Kings competitive too. I think they are 5-7 after the loss last night to Pacers, since he been there.

You might not think that record is impressive but its the Kings we are talking about.

TrueFan420
01-15-2014, 02:13 PM
It really has been impressive and strange how that trade worked out

LTBaByyy
01-15-2014, 02:16 PM
If he finishes the season playing like this, he is probably going to opt out and get a long term deal.

I wouldnt mind throwing him a $12 mil per year contract (ONLY IF HE KEEPS THIS UP THE REST OF SEASON!)

Carlisle obviously does amazing with chuckers and turns them into great system players (Ellis, Carter, Terry, etc.). He would do the same to Gay.

The Mavs have 30 mil (34 if we cut Dalembert) cap space this summer. Dirk said he will take as much of a pay cut as we need him too. I say he will take a 3 year 30 mil contract like Duncan and KG did. So we will have $20 mil (24 if Dalmber is cut) cap space

Jose
Ellis
Gay
Dirk
Gortat or Okafor

Cal827
01-15-2014, 02:36 PM
This is one of those rare instances where the deal works out for both teams and the players involved. I'm glad Rudy has been able to get back on his game, as I'm glad the team chemistry has improved vastly for the Raptors lol


Should be interesting to see whether or not Rudy Opts out though.

phantasyyy
01-15-2014, 02:38 PM
If he finishes the season playing like this, he is probably going to opt out and get a long term deal.

I wouldnt mind throwing him a $12 mil per year contract (ONLY IF HE KEEPS THIS UP THE REST OF SEASON!)

Carlisle obviously does amazing with chuckers and turns them into great system players (Ellis, Carter, Terry, etc.). He would do the same to Gay.

The Mavs have 30 mil (34 if we cut Dalembert) cap space this summer. Dirk said he will take as much of a pay cut as we need him too. I say he will take a 3 year 30 mil contract like Duncan and KG did. So we will have $20 mil (24 if Dalmber is cut) cap space

Jose
Ellis
Gay
Dirk
Gortat or Okafor

yeah... i dont think he'll take a 12m contract if he finishes the season like this

Tmath
01-15-2014, 02:39 PM
Rudy can make a team better to an extent. Like what we saw when he first got to Toronto. But with his style of play, he will always hold the team back from taking the next step. To be a good team, you need good ball movement. Rudy just doesn't know how to play that way.

mightybosstone
01-15-2014, 02:48 PM
Gay has played all of 16 games for the Kings. Let's allow for a larger sample size before we all explode all over ourselves. It's way more likely that his numbers revert to their old ways by the end of the season than that he'll keep up this efficiency the rest of the season.

conway429
01-15-2014, 03:00 PM
there's no way he opts out of his contract to sign a $12M/year deal....

Stunner
01-15-2014, 03:02 PM
Deng is the 5th best SF this year , Rudy gonna have to learn defense and keep this up to get that spot .

Htownballa1622
01-15-2014, 03:16 PM
:superman::superman::superman::superman:

PrematurereactionMAN! Sample size.

mightybosstone
01-15-2014, 04:46 PM
:superman::superman::superman::superman:

PrematurereactionMAN! Sample size.

Lol. At first glance, I read this as "Premature Ejaculation Man," and I was like, "Ouch! Htown must really hate the OP or Rudy Gay!"

aman_13
01-15-2014, 05:18 PM
He is still turning it over way too much and that is scary if the Kings give him the keys to the team which is what the Raps did.

aman_13
01-15-2014, 05:19 PM
He's playing well though.

TheIlladelph16
01-15-2014, 05:32 PM
I remember a similar thread last year from Raptors fans after the trade.....

dalton749
01-15-2014, 07:02 PM
as a raps fan im actually impressed. he shot over 50% like once this season and hes been doing it consistently for the kings. there is no doubt hes been much better but im so glad i dont have to watch him play anymore

Htownballa1622
01-15-2014, 07:05 PM
Lol. At first glance, I read this as "Premature Ejaculation Man," and I was like, "Ouch! Htown must really hate the OP or Rudy Gay!"

Lol. Nice catch.

Tony_Starks
01-15-2014, 07:17 PM
Rudy Gay takes a lot of flack because of his contract plus stat geeks hate him but he has game.

thekmp211
01-15-2014, 07:19 PM
he's playing well, let's see if it lasts. talent has never been his issue.

koreancabbage
01-15-2014, 07:25 PM
Rudy Gay takes a lot of flack because of his contract plus stat geeks hate him but he has game.

oh come on man, the man takes a ton of shots (and misses a ton) on the last two teams he has played. you have to figure he was the definition of a chucker - stat geek or no stat geek

LTBaByyy
01-15-2014, 07:30 PM
Sucks that the Kings are in a tough Western conference

Cousins, Gay, & Thomas would be a playoff trio in the East

koreancabbage
01-15-2014, 07:40 PM
Sucks that the Kings are in a tough Western conference

Cousins, Gay, & Thomas would be a playoff trio in the East

lol maybe. they still suck with the three of them. they have lost to some pretty bad East teams as well. They are still playing under .500 since Gay has been there i'm not mistaken.

meaning. they just aren't a good team yet. Eastern or Western conference. I mean if they can't win in the West. probably says volumes they are probably a fringe middle of the pack playoff team in the East at best.

mightybosstone
01-15-2014, 08:16 PM
Rudy Gay takes a lot of flack because of his contract plus stat geeks hate him but he has game.

I don't even know how people can bring up "stat geeks" in regards to Rudy Gay anymore. It's so freaking obvious that he hasn't made a basketball team better in years. He's one of the most inefficient scorers in the league, he doesn't do much else very well and he hasn't exactly made any significant improvements to his game. The guy can undoubtedly score, but he does so too often at the expense of his own team.

THE MTL
01-15-2014, 08:21 PM
Didn't rudy gay do the same thing when he first went to Toronto last season. Let's give him another couple months he'll be back to normal

bucketss
01-15-2014, 08:25 PM
Rudy Gay takes a lot of flack because of his contract plus stat geeks hate him but he has game.

if taking and missing deep 2's all day is "game" than i guess you're right, he has game. i doubt you even watched a single raptor game minus the ones vs the lakers smh.

b@llhog24
01-15-2014, 08:54 PM
oh come on man, the man takes a ton of shots (and misses a ton) on the last two teams he has played. you have to figure he was the definition of a chucker - stat geek or no stat geek

That's the thing, his chucking got so cancerous that "non stat geeks" caught on to what the "stat geeks" were seeing from long time. That he's not a legitimate first or second option. He can be probably be your 3rd but you'd need a really good bottom 4 and 5 or a super duo to be ahead of him.

kenzo400
01-15-2014, 11:56 PM
5-7 after the trade? Pretty small sample size and they are still under .500 Not much to gloat about. Gay has always been able to put up nice stats. The questions is whether he can actually help a team win. So far it seems that every team that trades him gets much better.

True Sports Fan
01-16-2014, 03:07 AM
33 points tonight against Wolves tonight and a couple clutch threes at the end.

I really think playing with a legitimate post threat has helped him.

Sadds The Gr8
01-16-2014, 05:05 AM
those %s are definitely coming down.

D-Leethal
01-16-2014, 10:16 AM
oh come on man, the man takes a ton of shots (and misses a ton) on the last two teams he has played. you have to figure he was the definition of a chucker - stat geek or no stat geek

How many extremely talented guys who are crucified by the stat geeks need to change environments and miraculously start to thrive and get more efficient before stat geeks will stop crucifying these guys like they are scrubs and start to blame the situations they are in?

Its not rocket science...

xxplayerxx23
01-16-2014, 10:46 AM
Rudy gay has played amazing since the kings traded for him. No he didn't do this % in Toronto. He hit a couple game winners for them but didn't play this well still very early but what I've noticed watching him is his shot selection has been very solid. Getting closer, getting more open shots with cousins. Won't get to excited if I was a kings fan he can still go back to his ways.

Chronz
01-17-2014, 02:03 PM
How many extremely talented guys who are crucified by the stat geeks need to change environments and miraculously start to thrive and get more efficient before stat geeks will stop crucifying these guys like they are scrubs and start to blame the situations they are in?

Its not rocket science...
Sometimes it is a miracle and if its not Rocket science, you should be able to tell when its the role and when the player is forcing that role. I have seen no such evidence from you.

"Stat geeks" have been studying the change in role/usage/teammates for awhile so I dont know why you think otherwise, and nowadays, if anyone is leading the charge in trying to find the right fit, these are the people who are leading to the signings. Cuban for example is one of those guys who believes a players role can lead to an improvement in efficiency, he does so because hes studied the relationship between them all but he can also step away from all that and project improvement. Some times hes right sometimes he should've listened to the numbers abit more. Not seeing why you think its a simple game.

A guy like Gay has played and failed in multiple roles, even ones where you would have thought he would thrive yet only wound up holding his team back. This is evident in the stats just as him finally thriving is evident. Stat guys are just better at examining the relationship. Which is how you should project, by looking into the past.



In all my years, you have never been able to answer 1 very specific question, why do you think you are saying something that stat heads havent been examining for years? You're not breaking any ground here, you're just being extremely confident in the vagueness of your analysis.

If you're just letting what a few people say and venting, then I sure hope you're not saying your projections have been 100% accurate.

nickdymez
01-17-2014, 02:18 PM
How many extremely talented guys who are crucified by the stat geeks need to change environments and miraculously start to thrive and get more efficient before stat geeks will stop crucifying these guys like they are scrubs and start to blame the situations they are in?

Its not rocket science...

Exactly. Stat geeks dont care about situation, coaching style, or system. Just W/s, Per, TS...

Jamiecballer
01-17-2014, 02:20 PM
How many extremely talented guys who are crucified by the stat geeks need to change environments and miraculously start to thrive and get more efficient before stat geeks will stop crucifying these guys like they are scrubs and start to blame the situations they are in?

Its not rocket science...
the "situation" is never to blame for a players lack of restraint.

nickdymez
01-17-2014, 02:20 PM
Sometimes it is a miracle and if its not Rocket science, you should be able to tell when its the role and when the player is forcing that role. I have seen no such evidence from you.

"Stat geeks" have been studying the change in role/usage/teammates for awhile so I dont know why you think otherwise, and nowadays, if anyone is leading the charge in trying to find the right fit, these are the people who are leading to the signings. Cuban for example is one of those guys who believes a players role can lead to an improvement in efficiency, he does so because hes studied the relationship between them all but he can also step away from all that and project improvement. Some times hes right sometimes he should've listened to the numbers abit more. Not seeing why you think its a simple game.

A guy like Gay has played and failed in multiple roles, even ones where you would have thought he would thrive yet only wound up holding his team back. This is evident in the stats just as him finally thriving is evident. Stat guys are just better at examining the relationship. Which is how you should project, by looking into the past.



In all my years, you have never been able to answer 1 very specific question, why do you think you are saying something that stat heads havent been examining for years? You're not breaking any ground here, you're just being extremely confident in the vagueness of your analysis.

If you're just letting what a few people say and venting, then I sure hope you're not saying your projections have been 100% accurate.

What you fail to realize is that basketball isnt science.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-17-2014, 03:11 PM
Exactly. Stat geeks dont care about situation, coaching style, or system. Just W/s, Per, TS...

That's not true. The posters who bring up stats also consider situation, etc.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-17-2014, 03:18 PM
the "situation" is never to blame for a players lack of restraint.

I agree.

Chronz
01-17-2014, 05:02 PM
Exactly. Stat geeks dont care about situation, coaching style, or system. Just W/s, Per, TS...

How would you even know? You run away from any encounter the minute questions begin to be asked. As seen in the PER thread some kid brought up.


What you fail to realize is that basketball isnt science.
Thats because only idiots think thats the goal. The game has quantifiable aspects is the point, those aspects are best studied by actually attempting to measure them, hence the reason those "scientists" have jobs in the league you are watching.

Try a non strawman argument for once.

cmellofan15
01-18-2014, 10:48 AM
Through advanced stats you can see in what system(s) a player will thrive. A great example is Nene when he played for the nuggets. The guy thrived on fastbreak opportunities and fast paced offense versus a half court situation, he was great at, and the stats proved it. His scoring went up along with his TS% because he took better shots.

As for advanced stats I dont see what the problem is. They are a great way of explaining what we see from a player and evaluating what we might not. This is essential as a GM to know that kind of stuff and its actually pretty cool to know as a basketball fan, especially seeing how in-depth these metrics are becoming.

EDIT: sorry that was supposed to be a response to nickdymes but apparently my quote button doesnt work haha

Chronz
01-18-2014, 12:23 PM
Through advanced stats you can see in what system(s) a player will thrive. A great example is Nene when he played for the nuggets. The guy thrived on fastbreak opportunities and fast paced offense versus a half court situation, he was great at, and the stats proved it. His scoring went up along with his TS% because he took better shots.

As for advanced stats I dont see what the problem is. They are a great way of explaining what we see from a player and evaluating what we might not. This is essential as a GM to know that kind of stuff and its actually pretty cool to know as a basketball fan, especially seeing how in-depth these metrics are becoming.

EDIT: sorry that was supposed to be a response to nickdymes but apparently my quote button doesnt work haha

Dont worry, he wouldn't have responded anyways. Its science, not basketball to him. Even though those guys work for the NBA and he has to lie about having stalkers here.

KniCks4LiFe
01-18-2014, 12:54 PM
Rudy gay has played amazing since the kings traded for him. No he didn't do this % in Toronto. He hit a couple game winners for them but didn't play this well still very early but what I've noticed watching him is his shot selection has been very solid. Getting closer, getting more open shots with cousins. Won't get to excited if I was a kings fan he can still go back to his ways.

Rudy Gay simply put is playing more efficient basketball. But here's the kicker, everyone's wondering how?

It's simple. He's in a better system that suits him. It keeps him from being an idiot. Michael Malone has done a pretty damn good job as the Kings coach and his system which uses flex counter plays and top of the elbow plays. It benefits a SF like Rudy Gay, b/c Rudy can play as the flex man or create seperation on simple elbow plays and uses his athleticism to get to the hole. It's pretty much a pick your poison offense that starts at the top and now they have 3 guys athletic enough to get to the line that can also pull up and hit jumpers.

You could see it clearly in the POR vs SAC game. Now the Kings aren't making the playoffs from their division and they are like 8 gms. out. But when you play Sacramento now, they are a pretty tough team. Atleast a .500 team in disguise as a scrub team.