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Stunner
01-02-2014, 01:22 PM
The Bulls , Clippers and Lakers https://mobile.twitter.com/******/status/418775632953094144?screen_name=****** Bulls and Clippets have pieces to make a trade , Lakers would be most likely a FA signing .

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 01:28 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/teammate-thinks-melo-ready-bolt-knick-mess-article-1.1563939

reported by ISOLA

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 01:35 PM
In a deal with the Bulls, Jimmy Butler, multiple firsts including this year, Tony Snell and Deng would have to be involved.

In a deal with the Clippers, Griffin would obviously have to be involved.

JordansBulls
01-02-2014, 01:39 PM
I'd do whatever if I were the Bulls. Give them Jimmy Butler and Deng for Melo.

shep33
01-02-2014, 01:41 PM
No chance in hell the Clips give up Blake.

Kind of hope he goes to the bulls

Stunner
01-02-2014, 01:43 PM
If the Bulls send Deng , Jimmy , Snell and Picks for Melo I would at least like to get Hardaway JR back . Knicks would have too many SG's

mudvayne387
01-02-2014, 01:47 PM
I said it when the Knicks acquired him and I'll say it again now, Carmelo Anthony will never win an NBA championship.

His style of play will hamper his chances no matter where he ends up.

Bulls ?
Lakers ?
Clippers ?

It doesn't matter how good the team around him is, that team will end up playing Melo Ball.

shep33
01-02-2014, 01:51 PM
If the Bulls send Deng , Jimmy , Snell and Picks for Melo I would at least like to get Hardaway JR back . Knicks would have too many SG's

That's a lot to give up for Melo. Chicago is on track to get a top 10 pick this year.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 01:54 PM
Why would Knicks want Deng? he would be a FA

And Deng sure aint gonna re-sign with the knicks

Stunner
01-02-2014, 01:54 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lfzocpy I would give up our 1st and a future 1st maybe

bholly
01-02-2014, 01:55 PM
In a deal with the Bulls, Jimmy Butler, multiple firsts including this year, Tony Snell and Deng would have to be involved.

In a deal with the Clippers, Griffin would obviously have to be involved.

If we believe this report (and the others like it), then Melo can just walk to LAL after the season if he wants. That means the Knicks have little to no leverage. If the Clippers and Bulls really wanted him they could bid the asking price up, but it's doubtful they bid it that high - the Clippers would likely bow out before it came to talking about moving Blake. I think you need to seriously lower your expectations.

jimm120
01-02-2014, 01:56 PM
he should say, "trade me, ok". Then is traded, doesn't sign, and re-signs with the Knicks. :D

I think a team would trade for him without forcing him to sign right away.

Stunner
01-02-2014, 01:57 PM
Why would Knicks want Deng? he would be a FA

And Deng sure aint gonna re-sign with the knicks
You know that how and Melo wants again has the power in this situation . He leaves you get nothing , trade him to where he wants you get whatever value of some sort you can . Deng would actually make them a better ball move my team and bring defense . He's stepped his game up a lot since Rose was out .

Stunner
01-02-2014, 01:58 PM
he should say, "trade me, ok". Then is traded, doesn't sign, and re-signs with the Knicks. :D

I think a team would trade for him without forcing him to sign right away.

I don't think he can do that lol

Sandman
01-02-2014, 02:03 PM
can't walk to the other 2 teams and Kobe is in pieces.

I'd still dare him to walk to LA until there is a legitimate suitor.

JasonJohnHorn
01-02-2014, 02:04 PM
If Chi-town gets a lottery pick, considering how deep this draft is supposed to be, they may be better off drafting a young prospect.

After seeing what little success Melo has had in DEN and NY, I don't see why any team would want Melo as their frnachise player.

Would ANYBODY be willing to give this guy a max deal other than NY?


If he gets a max deal, two years into it (if not two months into the first season) people will be bemoaning that it is the worst contracts in the league outside of JJ's.

BrandoCommando
01-02-2014, 02:06 PM
Kobe and Carmelo on the same team would be fun.

lvlheaded
01-02-2014, 02:09 PM
Deng, Snell, and this years 1st for Melo and JR. Knick fans have to understand that if you are getting a first rounder in this years draft, you HAVE to expect less as far as players in return.

Then spin Felton, Metta, and the 2018 first for Lowry

Lowry, Prigioni, Udrih
Shumpert, THJ
Deng, Snell
Amare, Tyler
Chandler, Bargnani

Not great, but adding a top 10-15 pick in this years draft would be huge moving forward. Especially if you can keep Deng and Lowry on reasonable deals

GSRaider
01-02-2014, 02:11 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lfzocpy I would give up our 1st and a future 1st maybe

Deng, Butler, Gibson, Teague and this years 1st…

Im doing that trade in a heart beat if I'm the Knicks…

Sandman
01-02-2014, 02:12 PM
Deng, Snell, and this years 1st for Melo and JR. Knick fans have to understand that if you are getting a first rounder in this years draft, you HAVE to expect less as far as players in return.

Then spin Felton, Metta, and the 2018 first for Lowry

Lowry, Prigioni, Udrih
Shumpert, THJ
Deng, Snell
Amare, Tyler
Chandler, Bargnani

Not great, but adding a top 10-15 pick in this years draft would be huge moving forward. Especially if you can keep Deng and Lowry on reasonable deals
Rebuilding team trading for guys with a few months left on their deals

And you want to trade a future 1st to do it on a team w no future

doesnt make sense.

just let melo walk.

Stunner
01-02-2014, 02:13 PM
I think Melo could work in Chicago if he buys in . I still think the best team Melo has played on is the Nuggets team that went to the WCF . I see similarities with that team and the Bulls but instead of Billups he would have another top notch scorer to fear in Rose . Not to mention Bulls have the best Euro league player coming over next year I think that team could work . Maybe move Boozer for some role players next year since he'll be on his final year they could have a nice foundation . Not to mention Bulls would still have the bobcats pick they might get this year to draft another player .

celtNYpatsHeels
01-02-2014, 02:14 PM
In my opinion Carmelo wouldn't work well with either Rose or Kobe. His best bet for SUCCESS is with CP3 and Doc in LA. His best chance at a payday would be with the other LA team.

Chronz
01-02-2014, 02:16 PM
Never getting traded for Blake Griffin, we can put that to bed now. Maybe his rookie year but definitely not now .

kylem4711
01-02-2014, 02:18 PM
would love to try melo on the clips, but no way we are giving up blake.

Stunner
01-02-2014, 02:19 PM
Can't say Melo wouldn't work with Rose cuz him and Iverson put up crazy numbers together . There was still other things holding that team back like defense . Wouldn't happen in Chicago because Rose is less of a ball hog than AI or one at all and Defense is Chicagos biggest strength .

Riodagoat
01-02-2014, 02:20 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lfzocpy I would give up our 1st and a future 1st maybe

Lol Bulls get raped in that deal. I'd take that deal RIGHT NOW if I was NY.

Melo to Clips won't happen unless they give up Blake. Don't see Clips being that stupid. At least I hope they aren't.
Melo to Lakers. That would be a ball-chucking contest between Melo, Kobe, and Swaggy P.

Stunner
01-02-2014, 02:21 PM
I mean Blake for Anthony would make the clippers better but Blake is pretty much a god over there .

Sandman
01-02-2014, 02:21 PM
Can't say Melo wouldn't work with Rose cuz him and Iverson put up crazy numbers together . There was still other things holding that team back like defense . Wouldn't happen in Chicago because Rose is less of a ball hog than AI or one at all and Defense is Chicagos biggest strength .

Yeah have to agree here. If he played with AI he can play with anybody. Kobe would be interesting because of age/ego but I don't think there would be an issue sharing the ball play-to-play. I could see Kobe chirping

Stunner
01-02-2014, 02:24 PM
Lol Bulls get raped in that deal. I'd take that deal RIGHT NOW if I was NY.

Melo is better than Deng and yea gonna lose Jimmy but I like what I'm seeing from Snell and get Jr back in the deal who looks decent . Taj would hurt as well but to make room for Mirtoic and get from under that contract I'm
Happy . As long as NY doesn't ask for our 1st and the bobcats pick together I'll do that trade . I'm only willing to give up one of our 1st this year .

Riodagoat
01-02-2014, 02:28 PM
I mean Blake for Anthony would make the clippers better but Blake is pretty much a god over there .

Better how? If they face teams with big men in the playoffs like Spurs, OKC, and even Rockets, you think Carmelo can guild any of those guys?

And we all know Clips are forced to sit DJ during crucial parts of the game during the 4th due to him being a poor free throw shooter.

Tony_Starks
01-02-2014, 02:36 PM
So lets see you can either get the best value possible for Melo now or risk just letting him walk? Somewhere Denver is laughing their *** off!

North Yorker
01-02-2014, 02:37 PM
Couldn't the Bulls just amnesty Boozer and then sign Melo outright instead of giving up picks and players?

Estimated salary cap for next year is $62.1M. That gives them over $15M in cap space, is that enough to sign Melo. Could be over $18M if they can shed Dunleavy's expiring as well.

ichitownclowni
01-02-2014, 02:38 PM
In a deal with the Bulls, Jimmy Butler, multiple firsts including this year, Tony Snell and Deng would have to be involved.

In a deal with the Clippers, Griffin would obviously have to be involved.

I wouldn't do that if Melo doesn't agree to sign an extension.

ichitownclowni
01-02-2014, 02:39 PM
Why would Knicks want Deng? he would be a FA

And Deng sure aint gonna re-sign with the knicks
Thats the point.......get a young player in Butler. Some 1st rders and Deng expires, money off the books

Tony_Starks
01-02-2014, 02:41 PM
Couldn't the Bulls just amnesty Boozer and then sign Melo outright instead of giving up picks and players?

Estimated salary cap for next year is $62.1M. That gives them over $15M in cap space, is that enough to sign Melo. Could be over $18M if they can shed Dunleavy's expiring as well.

When you amnesty a player their salary doesn't count against the cap but its still on the books so it doesn't free up money to sign someone else. Its strictly a financial move.

lvlheaded
01-02-2014, 02:47 PM
Rebuilding team trading for guys with a few months left on their deals

And you want to trade a future 1st to do it on a team w no future

doesnt make sense.

just let melo walk.

Letting Melo walk for nothing is a better idea than getting a lottery pick in a stacked draft, a good young talent, and clearin out cap space at the end of the year to have a chance to go after FA's? I know it's not absurd amounts of cap space being cleared, but it's certainly better than getting absolutely nothin for him and having to continue to pay JR on a team going nowhere

KniCks4LiFe
01-02-2014, 02:48 PM
I'd do whatever if I were the Bulls. Give them Jimmy Butler and Deng for Melo.

add Gibson and you got a deal.

bholly
01-02-2014, 02:54 PM
he should say, "trade me, ok". Then is traded, doesn't sign, and re-signs with the Knicks. :D

I think a team would trade for him without forcing him to sign right away.

Only if they were very confident of keeping him - ie if they were a substantially better situation than NYK, so he wouldn't go back.


If Chi-town gets a lottery pick, considering how deep this draft is supposed to be, they may be better off drafting a young prospect.

After seeing what little success Melo has had in DEN and NY, I don't see why any team would want Melo as their frnachise player.

Um, he wouldn't be Chicago's franchise player.


When you amnesty a player their salary doesn't count against the cap but its still on the books so it doesn't free up money to sign someone else. Its strictly a financial move.

No, that's not true. Whether or not you have room to sign someone is purely a function of how much you have counting against the cap. You can absolutely use the amnesty to free up room to sign someone. Case in point: Knicks/Billups/Chandler.

The problem is that amnestying Boozer still wouldn't give Chicago the room (unless they make some other major cap-clearing moves).


Couldn't the Bulls just amnesty Boozer and then sign Melo outright instead of giving up picks and players?

Estimated salary cap for next year is $62.1M. That gives them over $15M in cap space, is that enough to sign Melo. Could be over $18M if they can shed Dunleavy's expiring as well.

In theory, sure, but where are you getting that $62.1m from? That's a huge leap that I'm not sure is realistic. They'd also need to clear a lot of extra room (maybe moving Taj?) and/or expect Melo to take a huge paycut (his max will be about $22.5m) to get it down. Doesn't sound likely - if they're willing to let Deng walk and dump Taj then they're probably better off just trading for him.

North Yorker
01-02-2014, 02:55 PM
When you amnesty a player their salary doesn't count against the cap but its still on the books so it doesn't free up money to sign someone else. Its strictly a financial move.

Yes I know. Im wondering if that is enough cap space to sign Melo though?

If their owner doesn't want to pay Boozer to not play then they could always pull a GSW and trade Boozer along with a future 1st to some team with cap space (Jefferson & Biedrins trade), and then sign Melo like how GS signed Iggy.

BGeer091
01-02-2014, 02:57 PM
Melo and Rose with Thibs would be very very scary. Only problem is would Rose stay healthy. The Knicks would not include Hardaway with Melo. So the Melo + Hardaway wouldn't happen.

The Clippers would do Melo for Blake. Obviously there would have to be other pieces but people acting like it preposterous is foolish. I'm not saying we are going to get the Kings ransome for him. Add Melo to the Clips and they are right there with SAS and OKC.

Sandman
01-02-2014, 02:58 PM
Letting Melo walk for nothing is a better idea than getting a lottery pick in a stacked draft, a good young talent, and clearin out cap space at the end of the year to have a chance to go after FA's? I know it's not absurd amounts of cap space being cleared, but it's certainly better than getting absolutely nothin for him and having to continue to pay JR on a team going nowhere

Deng you could ship somewhere if you wanted to but there was a Lowry deal attached to it

KniCks4LiFe
01-02-2014, 02:58 PM
Deng you could ship somewhere if you wanted to but there was a Lowry deal attached to it

your sig is hilarious.

North Yorker
01-02-2014, 03:02 PM
In theory, sure, but where are you getting that $62.1m from? That's a huge leap that I'm not sure is realistic. They'd also need to clear a lot of extra room (maybe moving Taj?) and/or expect Melo to take a huge paycut (his max will be about $22.5m) to get it down. Doesn't sound likely - if they're willing to let Deng walk and dump Taj then they're probably better off just trading for him.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/looking-toward-2014s-salary-cap
It's just an estimate, I've seen other estimates up around $70M but that sounds just ridiculous.

Iggy, Nash, and Howard all left money on the table when they signed with new teams. If they could amnesty Boozer, shed Dunleavy, they could offer Melo $18M the first year of the deal. It's probably more about winning for him rather than money if I had to guess.

lvlheaded
01-02-2014, 03:05 PM
Deng you could ship somewhere if you wanted to but there was a Lowry deal attached to it

I did that cause it lets them shed Felton and Metta's salaries for next year. Plus Lowry is another player who could be used as a trade piece.

xxplayerxx23
01-02-2014, 03:08 PM
I want picks in this years draft. Trade anyone for some picks.

todu82
01-02-2014, 03:10 PM
Of the 3 teams mentioned the Bulls make the most sense. Melo at 100% and a healthy Rose would be very good.

Tony_Starks
01-02-2014, 03:17 PM
Unless a team has some sort of assurance he'll sign with them I can't see them giving up valuable pieces just to rent him for half a season. It's not like the Lakers with Dwight just gave away a player in Bynum they didn't want anymore. Knicks are going to want some actual value....

EL_MACHETE
01-02-2014, 03:21 PM
Idk but why but I think he might get traded to L.A Clippers for Blake Griffin. Then after this season he'll sign back with New York
Carmelo & Hardaway for Griffin


Then their lineup would look like...

Pg- Felton
Sg- Smith
Sf- Anthony
Pf- Griffin
C- Chandler

shep33
01-02-2014, 03:23 PM
Again... why are people bringing up Blake? He's been phenomenal this year and he's 25.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 03:27 PM
Idk but why but I think he might get traded to L.A Clippers for Blake Griffin. Then after this season he'll sign back with New York
Carmelo & Hardaway for Griffin


Then their lineup would look like...

Pg- Felton
Sg- Smith
Sf- Anthony
Pf- Griffin
C- Chandler

:drunk:

Tony_Starks
01-02-2014, 03:41 PM
Idk but why but I think he might get traded to L.A Clippers for Blake Griffin. Then after this season he'll sign back with New York
Carmelo & Hardaway for Griffin


Then their lineup would look like...

Pg- Felton
Sg- Smith
Sf- Anthony
Pf- Griffin
C- Chandler

Remember that new rule that when you trade a player they can't come back for at least a full season.

Other than that I dont see the Clippers trading a young stud in Blake who is still improving for a Melo. Doesn't really strike me as a Doc Rivers kind of player.....

bholly
01-02-2014, 03:44 PM
Idk but why but I think he might get traded to L.A Clippers for Blake Griffin. Then after this season he'll sign back with New York
Carmelo & Hardaway for Griffin


Then their lineup would look like...

Pg- Felton
Sg- Smith
Sf- Anthony
Pf- Griffin
C- Chandler

LAC won't trade Griffin for Melo, and if the Knicks had the cap room to just sign a max player from another team (in this case Melo) then what do you think everyone else has been talking about all this time?

bholly
01-02-2014, 03:46 PM
Remember that new rule that when you trade a player they can't come back for at least a full season.

Other than that I dont see the Clippers trading a young stud in Blake who is still improving for a Melo. Doesn't really strike me as a Doc Rivers kind of player.....

That's only if the player gets traded and then bought out.

Stunner
01-02-2014, 03:53 PM
That's only if the player gets traded and then bought out.

The league still wouldn't allow it

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-02-2014, 04:18 PM
Only place I'd be ok with him going to is Houston, to play with Dwight, and James Harden

D-Leethal
01-02-2014, 04:22 PM
If its with the Bulls Noah better be coming back.

LAL doesn't make sense for a multitude of reasons.

Clips have a lot of potential trade scenarios.

xxplayerxx23
01-02-2014, 04:28 PM
If its with the Bulls Noah better be coming back.

LAL doesn't make sense for a multitude of reasons.

Clips have a lot of potential trade scenarios.

No thanks on Noah

Butler+deng+2014 first+ cats first
For
Melo+ any Knick not named thjr

Stunner
01-02-2014, 04:34 PM
If its with the Bulls Noah better be coming back.

LAL doesn't make sense for a multitude of reasons.

Clips have a lot of potential trade scenarios.

Have fun losing him for nothing , Bulls aren't trading Noah , Clips aren't trading Blake , Lakers don't have to do anything but wait for him to come . You guys have no leverage , it's Denver all overt again the only difference is you guys won't rape anyone in a deal because none of those teams are desperate .

Stunner
01-02-2014, 04:35 PM
No thanks on Noah

Butler+deng+2014 first+ cats first
For
Melo+ any Knick not named thjr

Lol no deal and it doesn't even match up salary wise .

Denver-boy
01-02-2014, 04:37 PM
Deng getting traded for melo... two player both being shopped.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 04:37 PM
If melo leaves Knicks would be over salary cap by 15 mils and have a starting lineup...

Felton
Smith
Shumpert
Bargnani
Chandler

If Dolan is smart he'll trade him...but we all know he isnt

Sandman
01-02-2014, 04:38 PM
Have fun losing him for nothing , Bulls aren't trading Noah , Clips aren't trading Blake , Lakers don't have to do anything but wait for him to come . You guys have no leverage , it's Denver all overt again the only difference is you guys won't rape anyone in a deal because none of those teams are desperate .
The Nugs had NJ and NY ready to jump on Melo in the offseason. I'm curious what Melo's leverage is going to get him other than a super max deal from NY.

Denver-boy
01-02-2014, 04:42 PM
Lol no deal and it doesn't even match up salary wise .



Melo, Udrih, Murray for Hinirich, Deng, and Jimmy Butler. 2014 2nd rounder and 2015 1st rounder. at best.

Work out Cap wise.

Im not even a fan of either, but no way Noah is added in this deal for purposes that Knicks have no leverage. the best deal there gonna get is the one i proposed.

Stunner
01-02-2014, 04:44 PM
The Nugs had NJ and NY ready to jump on Melo in the offseason. I'm curious what Melo's leverage is going to get him other than a super max deal from NY.

Melo has the Lakers this time and that's on his list of teams to go to . Yea NY has the most money to offer but so did Denver and he left there . If he stayed he'll be in the same situation he's in now , wasting another year with a team that can't make any real moves till 2015 .

east fb knicks
01-02-2014, 04:45 PM
lmao melo aint going nowhere d rose is done kobe is done and the clippers don't have any money to sign him

Stunner
01-02-2014, 04:45 PM
Melo, Udrih, Murray for Hinirich, Deng, and Jimmy Butler. 2013 2nd rounder and 2014 1st rounder. at best.

Work out Cap wise.

Im not even a fan of either, but no way Noah is added in this deal for purposes that Knicks have no leverage. the best deal there gonna get is the one i proposed.

Sign me up lol but I would love to send them Taj

xxplayerxx23
01-02-2014, 04:46 PM
Lol no deal and it doesn't even match up salary wise .

Thtas cool no melo for you. He can't go to the bulls without a trade

Denver-boy
01-02-2014, 04:47 PM
I could see Rocket having a good offer.

Parsons, Jeremy Lin, and Omer for Melo and Udrih

Rockets could Afford this with Beverly, and Brooks at PG. Makes a lot sense for the rockets making a push for a big three.

xxplayerxx23
01-02-2014, 04:50 PM
Melo, Udrih, Murray for Hinirich, Deng, and Jimmy Butler. 2013 2nd rounder and 2014 1st rounder. at best.

Work out Cap wise.

Im not even a fan of either, but no way Noah is added in this deal for purposes that Knicks have no leverage. the best deal there gonna get is the one i proposed.

Considring were in 2014 id think 2013 is ou of the question
That's not a bad offer. 2014 first probably a future first d and id do it

Stunner
01-02-2014, 04:51 PM
Thtas cool no melo for you. He can't go to the bulls without a trade

That's fine lol like I said we aren't desperate to make a trade and give up the house like y'all did . Our team isn't the one with the superstar trying to leave .

Sandman
01-02-2014, 04:51 PM
Melo has the Lakers this time and that's on his list of teams to go to . Yea NY has the most money to offer but so did Denver and he left there . If he stayed he'll be in the same situation he's in now , wasting another year with a team that can't make any real moves till 2015 .

exactly, I'm not sure how much more attractive the Lakers are.

He started chirping before the season started and the team took a nosedive. I thought his end game from the beginning was the 130m deal.

As ****** as the Knicks are, at least as of right now 1/2/14... if his only real option is LAL and a 35 yo Kobe is on IR with a brand new 2/45 deal... you call the bluff. Who is LA even putting around Kobe & Melo? Not that NY is better, but I'm not sure if it helps his end game either whatever it may be.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 04:51 PM
lmao melo aint going nowhere d rose is done kobe is done and the clippers don't have any money to sign him

Then Knicks are done too, only milwaukee has a worse record

Denver-boy
01-02-2014, 04:52 PM
Considring were in 2014 id think 2013 is ou of the question
That's not a bad offer. 2014 first probably a future first d and id do it

I ment a 2014 2nd rounder and a 2015 first rounder lol I keep thinkin 2013-14 and 14-15 mind set! great correction

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 04:53 PM
exactly, I'm not sure how much more attractive the Lakers are.

He started chirping before the season started and the team took a nosedive. I thought his end game from the beginning was the 130m deal.

As ****** as the Knicks are, at least as of right now 1/2/14... if his only real option is LAL and a 35 yo Kobe is on IR with a brand new 2/45 deal... you call the bluff. Who is LA even putting around Kobe & Melo? Not that NY is better, but I'm not sure if it helps his end game either whatever it may be.

What have the knicks put around Melo the last 3 years?

Sandman
01-02-2014, 04:56 PM
What have the knicks put around Melo the last 3 years?

lol somebody is sensitive

you dodged the question

the answer to that is $$$$

unless you can show me a legit title contender he is walking to, I can't see why he would move to another city for more of the same while leaving all that money on the table.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 05:01 PM
lol somebody is sensitive

you dodged the question

the answer to that is $$$$

unless you can show me a legit title contender he is walking to, I can't see why he would move to another city for more of the same while leaving all that money on the table.

Knicks are the laughingstock of the NBA, like Melo said.

No way he stays there

Sandman
01-02-2014, 05:03 PM
Knicks are the laughingstock of the NBA, like Melo said.

No way he stays there
Good call LOL

why would he do that #knicksuck

LOL what was I thinking

bottom line the Lakers suck too so until somebody makes a move to make it a good idea to leave the money on the table its not happening.

elledaddy
01-02-2014, 05:05 PM
If Chi-town gets a lottery pick, considering how deep this draft is supposed to be, they may be better off drafting a young prospect.

After seeing what little success Melo has had in DEN and NY, I don't see why any team would want Melo as their frnachise player.

Would ANYBODY be willing to give this guy a max deal other than NY?


If he gets a max deal, two years into it (if not two months into the first season) people will be bemoaning that it is the worst contracts in the league outside of JJ's.



What do you mean " the little success he's had" ? He's on pace for his first losing season in 10 yrs, so you must mean championships when you speak success. If that's the case, you must feel the same way about, D Will, D Rose, K Love, CP3....... Why would anybody max them out and make them franchise players? What have they won that Melo hasn't? If you compared some of these past championship rosters with Melo's team rosters, You would have Melo in the top 3 players then the rest would be the other teams players.

Compare Melo's Knicks vs
Champion Heat
Champion Lakers
Champion Spurs
Champion Mavs
Bulls ECF team
Pacers ECF team
Champion Celtics
Championship losing Thunder
You get my point???? He simply hasn't had the supporting class that the other players had.
Give Melo Bosh and Wade, Ginobli and Parker, Weatbrook and Ibaka, Gasol and a young Bynum, KG, Rondo and Ray allen, Give him a Prim Shaq.........and I would bet the outcome would differ.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 05:08 PM
Good call LOL

why would he do that #knicksuck

LOL what was I thinking

bottom line the Lakers suck too so until somebody makes a move to make it a good idea to leave the money on the table its not happening.

Lakers are sucking for a draft pick

Sandman
01-02-2014, 05:10 PM
Lakers are sucking for a draft pick
you're right. they are still a prime destination for anybody looking to join up with Kobe and win a championship

#pleasestaydwight

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-02-2014, 05:11 PM
you're right. they are still a prime destination for anybody looking to join up with Kobe and win a championship

#pleasestaydwight

still a lot better destination than the Knicks

Sandman
01-02-2014, 05:15 PM
still a lot better destination than the Knicks

It doesn't matter if they're better than the Knicks, its title contender or bust and the Knicks can pay him for the bust like nobody else can.

I think its the worst case scenario, staying for 130, but I think its been in the cards the whole time.

Chronz
01-02-2014, 05:23 PM
The Clippers would do Melo for Blake.
What makes you think so?

Bartlee23
01-02-2014, 05:44 PM
Why would any team offer New York any picks or players when they can sign him for nothin
g at the end of the year and not lose any valuable assets? Any team would just be dumping/offering players they no longer want or who will not be resigning with them.

effen5
01-02-2014, 05:46 PM
Melo and iman for Luol Kirk and taj and a protected first...otherwise I really don't care if we get melo or not.

Sandman
01-02-2014, 05:49 PM
Why would any team offer New York any picks or players when they can sign him for nothing at the end of the year and not lose any valuable assets? Any team would just be dumping/offering players they no longer want or who will not be resigning with them.
what team is he walking to that has the cap space to do that

Stunner
01-02-2014, 06:00 PM
Lol Melo wanted to be in Chicago even in 2010 , must really like Thibs http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=5602165&src=desktop

D-Leethal
01-02-2014, 06:15 PM
If melo leaves Knicks would be over salary cap by 15 mils and have a starting lineup...

Felton
Smith
Shumpert
Bargnani
Chandler

If Dolan is smart he'll trade him...but we all know he isnt

That would be for one season and assuming we don't make any moves. We would have expiring contracts galore, we would have our own first rounder and we would have a mountain of cap space after the season. Its not like that would be our team going forward.

D-Leethal
01-02-2014, 06:17 PM
What have the knicks put around Melo the last 3 years?

We never had a real opportunity considering the guy he came to play with fell off a cliff the second he got here and is getting paid to be the 2nd max sidekick. Amare's contract prohibited us from ever having a legit shot at building around Melo.

Knicks21
01-02-2014, 06:28 PM
So lets see you can either get the best value possible for Melo now or risk just letting him walk? Somewhere Denver is laughing their *** off!

Yeh because Denver has been sooooo successful since the trade....

DRose01
01-02-2014, 06:49 PM
No one is going to overpay for Melo. He would be a great all star to pair with other all stars like Paul, Rose, or Kobe, but he's not a franchise player. and its a lose-lose for the Knicks anyway. He stays, they'll still suck with no real future or flexibility. He could also just walk away and the Knicks would still have no future or flexiblity.

NYKNYGNYY
01-02-2014, 06:53 PM
Should say when melo decides to leave ny... I'm expecting it and the only thing that sucks is we have no draft picks because of him ... He loved New York so much and him coming to us gave us 2 decent years and then just **** out this year idk man... Idk man love my Knicks but I lost hope until 2015 if any players will want to come to this horrible run organization

Knicks21
01-02-2014, 06:55 PM
No one is going to overpay for Melo. He would be a great all star to pair with other all stars like Paul, Rose, or Kobe, but he's not a franchise player. and its a lose-lose for the Knicks anyway. He stays, they'll still suck with no real future or flexibility. He could also just walk away and the Knicks would still have no future or flexiblity.

Yes we do lol. Only 12 million on the books come 2015 and one future first owed.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-02-2014, 06:57 PM
Knicks are the laughingstock of the NBA, like Melo said.

No way he stays there


Good call LOL

why would he do that #knicksuck

LOL what was I thinking

bottom line the Lakers suck too so until somebody makes a move to make it a good idea to leave the money on the table its not happening.


Lakers are sucking for a draft pick


you're right. they are still a prime destination for anybody looking to join up with Kobe and win a championship

#pleasestaydwight

Guys, both our teams suck. Don't fight over being the tallest midget.

Sandman
01-02-2014, 07:01 PM
Guys, both our teams suck. Don't fight over being the tallest midget.

LOL I wasn't trying to, he took offense when I said I doubt he'd leave to play with the Lakers w/ Kobe's status.

The Knicks are terrible but unless the team he's signing with has a legit shot at being a top 4-5 team, I doubt he leaves the money on the table.

Anything can happen between now and the deadline but as of now that team isnt there.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-02-2014, 07:12 PM
Knicks are the laughingstock of the NBA, like Melo said.

No way he stays there


Good call LOL

why would he do that #knicksuck

LOL what was I thinking

bottom line the Lakers suck too so until somebody makes a move to make it a good idea to leave the money on the table its not happening.


Lakers are sucking for a draft pick


you're right. they are still a prime destination for anybody looking to join up with Kobe and win a championship

#pleasestaydwight


LOL I wasn't trying to, he took offense when I said I doubt he'd leave to play with the Lakers w/ Kobe's status.

The Knicks are terrible but unless the team he's signing with has a legit shot at being a top 4-5 team, I doubt he leaves the money on the table.

Anything can happen between now and the deadline but as of now that team isnt there.

I don't think he will leave either. But that 30 million is overstated. The 30 million is for the extra year. Over the course of 5 years he will earn roughly the same amount of money. Maybe 4 or 5 million more if he got maxed out in NY. The only real benefit is the guaranteed year incase he gets hurt. But some players at his age might see it a better option to sign for 4 years with an opt out after 3. That way he signs a new extension or becomes a free agent while he still is producing.

Sandman
01-02-2014, 07:18 PM
I don't think he will leave either. But that 30 million is overstated. The 30 million is for the extra year. Over the course of 5 years he will earn roughly the same amount of money. Maybe 4 or 5 million more if he got maxed out in NY. The only real benefit is the guaranteed year incase he gets hurt. But some players at his age might see it a better option to sign for 4 years with an opt out after 3. That way he signs a new extension or becomes a free agent while he still is producing.
The 30 is definitely overstated but thats assuming somebody with cap space and title hopes has 22m to give him. I figure he'd have to leave a lot more money on the table.

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 07:30 PM
If the Bulls send Deng , Jimmy , Snell and Picks for Melo I would at least like to get Hardaway JR back . Knicks would have too many SG's

LOL no way. Melo's a top 10 player and to pair him with Rose & Noah would be unbelievable for the Bulls.

Butler, Deng, Snell & picks is modest.

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 07:31 PM
If we believe this report (and the others like it), then Melo can just walk to LAL after the season if he wants. That means the Knicks have little to no leverage. If the Clippers and Bulls really wanted him they could bid the asking price up, but it's doubtful they bid it that high - the Clippers would likely bow out before it came to talking about moving Blake. I think you need to seriously lower your expectations.

Walk to LAL? With a ******, old Kobe and D'Antoni running the show (with NO other cap to sign any additional players). Right…

Why wouldn't he just stay in NY with 2015 cap space then?

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 07:38 PM
To think the Clippers wouldn't do Blake for Melo is absolutely asinine.

They'd pull the trigger in a half second. Melo is Paul's VERY best friend in the NBA. Kind like LeBron and Wade. And the plan was always to play together in NY. So why wouldn't Paul desperately want him in LA? Besides, Blake has major deficiencies in his game and the pick and roll PG-PF combo never works. Hasn't in the recent past, hasn't ever (Amare-Nash, Stockton-Malone). They never won titles.

Stop acting like the Knicks don't have any options here. Melo is the one with no options. There's no team he can flee to in the offseason that will be any more of a contender than the Knicks. The Bulls, Clips, Heat, Rockets - they all don't have cap.

And Kobe is an old cripple on a team with limited maneuverability if Melo signed there. It would be Melo and an ancient Kobe/Nash combo. That team would win 40 games.

Melo's best option would be to stay with the Knicks and try to sign two other stars in 2015 (Rondo, Love, Aldridge, Gasol, Parker, Hibbert) to name the top 6 in that class. Otherwise, the Clips would trade Blake in a half second for Melo and the Clippers would be instant favorites out West with Doc running the show.

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 07:45 PM
What have the knicks put around Melo the last 3 years?

Not much. But that's a combination of Melo's fault and the Knicks mismanagement from 2011 to 2012. They used their amnesty on Billups when they picked up his team option before the new CBA was agreed upon. And then Melo forced the Knicks to trade all their assets and picks when he could've walked there in the offseason.

So why blame the Knicks for this? They had a great team last year that got hurt in the playoffs (Melo's shoulder, Chandler's neck, Smith's knee).

Again, I repeat, there is NO other team in the entire league that has cap that will appeal to Melo. NY has marketability and a ton of perks that no other city (aside from LA) has.

benny01
01-02-2014, 07:50 PM
Why would the Bulls give up so much NY has no leverage in such a trade cause melo can opt out anyway. Wait till the off-season make cap room and sign him or s&t for Gibson. No way bulter would be involved, Bulls LUV him

Chronz
01-02-2014, 07:50 PM
No one is going to overpay for Melo. He would be a great all star to pair with other all stars like Paul, Rose, or Kobe, but he's not a franchise player. and its a lose-lose for the Knicks anyway. He stays, they'll still suck with no real future or flexibility. He could also just walk away and the Knicks would still have no future or flexiblity.

So Rose is more of a franchise guy than Melo? At this point, doesn't that come off biased?

Jarvo
01-02-2014, 07:50 PM
I would not put Butler in a trade for Melo at ALL! Just let him walk.

EL_MACHETE
01-02-2014, 07:56 PM
Remember that new rule that when you trade a player they can't come back for at least a full season.

Other than that I dont see the Clippers trading a young stud in Blake who is still improving for a Melo. Doesn't really strike me as a Doc Rivers kind of player.....


Ohh I didn't know that.. Well then never mind about that trade then

Chronz
01-02-2014, 07:59 PM
To think the Clippers wouldn't do Blake for Melo is absolutely asinine.
Quite the opposite. Melo cant play a big position in the West and we cant afford to downgrade the defense any further. The makeup of the team has been established with Blake+CP3 in mind. Not to mention there is no guarantee that Melo stays after his contract is up, whereas Blake is under contract, younger, with more room to improve and while playing a position of more importance.


They'd pull the trigger in a half second. Melo is Paul's VERY best friend in the NBA. Kind like LeBron and Wade. And the plan was always to play together in NY. So why wouldn't Paul desperately want him in LA? Besides, Blake has major deficiencies in his game and the pick and roll PG-PF combo never works. Hasn't in the recent past, hasn't ever (Amare-Nash, Stockton-Malone). They never won titles.
Thats a very simplistic way of looking at it, akin to me saying the Melo style of ball never works. Facts are, you can win playing multiple styles, you can literally have a vanilla offense and win a title if your defense is good enough. Blake isn't perfect, but neither is Melo, so pointing out vague deficiencies doesn't differentiate either of them. Clips would NEVER accept this deal, maybe 3 years ago when Blake was a rook and Melo was under contract.


Melo's best option would be to stay with the Knicks and try to sign two other stars in 2015 (Rondo, Love, Aldridge, Gasol, Parker, Hibbert) to name the top 6 in that class. Otherwise, the Clips would trade Blake in a half second for Melo and the Clippers would be instant favorites out West with Doc running the show.
Except that Melo can opt out as early as next year, at which point the Knicks have nothing but a bunch of exprings to hope and entice Melo to stay.

Clips wouldn't be dumb enough to downgrade the team, not with Doc running things. Maybe back in the Baylor-Oshley-Sterling days.

shep33
01-02-2014, 08:01 PM
He should just stay in New York. I honestly don't think the Lakers are interested in signing him even if he were interested in joining us. 4 years 88 mill for a 30 year old Melo?

There's been rumors already saying how we aren't really interested in offering him a max.

I like Melo, but at his age, and for that money I would rather try and get a guy like Love, Durant or Russy. Not saying we will

Bartlee23
01-02-2014, 08:01 PM
what team is he walking to that has the cap space to do that

If a team like Chicago wanted him. ( which in my opinion I don't think they do.... as great as he is he doesn't fit into their defense/team philosophy ) they could not resign Deng, get rid of Boozer and convince Carmelo into coming for a reasonable contract to play for a winning team like Lebron/Bosh but I don't believe it will ever happen. Not impossible though.

That way Chicago keeps all their draft picks and still has quality players at very cap friendly contracts with Mirotic possibly coming over next year. Will it happen.... probably not but again not impossible.

bholly
01-02-2014, 08:01 PM
The league still wouldn't allow it

What could they do? It's completely within the rules of the CBA. They have absolutely no legal authority to prevent it. They didn't even stop guys like Ilgauskas when they were doing that 30 day in-season turnaround, what makes you think they'd stop a free agent from signing where he wants?


Walk to LAL? With a ******, old Kobe and D'Antoni running the show (with NO other cap to sign any additional players). Right…

Why wouldn't he just stay in NY with 2015 cap space then?

The whole premise of my post, and the whole topic being discussed in this thread, is that LAL is one of 3 teams he wants to go to. The very first words in my post were 'If we believe this report'. I don't know why the **** he wants to go to LAL, I'm saying that if he does (as reported) then the Knicks have no leverage.

If you want me to go beyond that and speculate about what reasons he could have for wanting to go there as opposed to staying in New York, I'd say 1) at this point he might just want a change of scenery; 2) LAL are the winningest franchise in NBA history and have had pretty good management in recent years, while the Knicks are historically middle of the pack and for the last decade have been run almost as bad as any team; 3) Kobe is likely a plus for him - you can't talk about his friendship with Paul in your last post but completely ignore his friendship with Kobe; 4) even if he thought that the Knicks had big 2015 potential, that's still another year of the same situation, which might be too much for him; 5) is it really that much worse to have D'Antoni than Woodson? At least the Lakers can afford to just hire D'Antoni, while Dolan's apparent loyalty to Woodson suggests he could stick around for a while.

I have no idea why he wants to go to LAL (if he even does), but it's absolutely possible that he wants to - there are plenty of reasons he might prefer it to NYK, it's just a matter of what his preferences are, which none of us know.

bholly
01-02-2014, 08:09 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/looking-toward-2014s-salary-cap
It's just an estimate, I've seen other estimates up around $70M but that sounds just ridiculous.

Iggy, Nash, and Howard all left money on the table when they signed with new teams. If they could amnesty Boozer, shed Dunleavy, they could offer Melo $18M the first year of the deal. It's probably more about winning for him rather than money if I had to guess.

Damn, I never saw that, but I do trust Pincus. Still, $62.1m would require like a 6% BRI increase, which is pretty huge. Not completely unprecedented, but definitely very big.

In either case, that's still a huge amount of money to give up. People can talk about LBJ, Wade, Iggy, Nash, Howard all they like - it's absolutely true that players do leave money on the table - but the $4.5m+ per year that we're talking about is more than any of them gave up - until we see someone give up that much then we should think it's all that likely. Melo is someone I could see doing it, especially for a situation like CHI, but it's still a huge long shot.

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 08:13 PM
Quite the opposite. Melo cant play a big position in the West and we cant afford to downgrade the defense any further. The makeup of the team has been established with Blake+CP3 in mind. Not to mention there is no guarantee that Melo stays after his contract is up, whereas Blake is under contract, younger, with more room to improve and while playing a position of more importance.

Thats a very simplistic way of looking at it, akin to me saying the Melo style of ball never works. Facts are, you can win playing multiple styles, you can literally have a vanilla offense and win a title if your defense is good enough. Blake isn't perfect, but neither is Melo, so pointing out vague deficiencies doesn't differentiate either of them. Clips would NEVER accept this deal, maybe 3 years ago when Blake was a rook and Melo was under contract.


Except that Melo can opt out as early as next year, at which point the Knicks have nothing but a bunch of exprings to hope and entice Melo to stay.

Clips wouldn't be dumb enough to downgrade the team, not with Doc running things. Maybe back in the Baylor-Oshley-Sterling days.

I can't tell you how much wrong is associated with what you just said. It's ridicule.

Melo has always had his most success with a top notch PG, Chauncey Billups. Can you imagine the wonders he would do with Chris Paul by his side?

When you have a PG like Paul, Melo's 'style of play' would factor in very rarely. He's actually a really nice catch and shoot type of guy. Griffin has an awkward offensive game. You could never look at him like a true no. 1 on a team. His jump shot is awkward, his post game is awkward and his game screams of one that will deteriorate when his athleticism goes away in 5 years. See Amare Stoudemire. Because I have up close. And Griffin isn't nearly the offensive player Stoudemire was. And Melo is actually a much better defensive player than Griffin when he puts forth effort.

Griffin and Paul will take the Clippers as far as Amare and Nash took the Suns. Melo and Paul can take the Clips the Finals. Melo has a pedigree of closing out games. While he hasn't lately, the scope of his career is that he can. He can score at will and when he goes on one of his hot streaks, he's the second best player in the league. See April 2013. Averaged 37 a game.

And to get to your theory of Melo's contract -- why would the Clippers accept the deal unless Melo accepted an extension? That's the only contingency a deal would get done anyway. If he couldn't win in NY, Melo would love to be a Clip - so he'd probably sign on the dot to be with Paul.

My views aren't simplistic, I'd like to think I'm right in this situation. Melo gets way too much flak for how good of a player he is. The fact is he's surrounded by a bunch of losers and a crappy head coach.

Sandman
01-02-2014, 08:14 PM
Damn, I never saw that, but I do trust Pincus. Still, $62.1m would require like a 6% BRI increase, which is pretty huge. Not completely unprecedented, but definitely very big.

In either case, that's still a huge amount of money to give up. People can talk about LBJ, Wade, Iggy, Nash, Howard all they like - it's absolutely true that players do leave money on the table - but the $4.5m+ per year that we're talking about is more than any of them gave up - until we see someone give up that much then we should think it's all that likely. Melo is someone I could see doing it, especially for a situation like CHI, but it's still a huge long shot.

When you include income tax, there wasn't as much money left on the table as it looks if at all.

Chicago would have to ship guys out for nothing to make it happen first, and nobody is lining up to take Boozer for a TPE. That would still have Melo signing what a 16m deal? Thats a ton of money to leave on the table.

JordansBulls
01-02-2014, 08:15 PM
LOL no way. Melo's a top 10 player and to pair him with Rose & Noah would be unbelievable for the Bulls.

Butler, Deng, Snell & picks is modest.

:nod:

We are talking about a guy who played peak Lebron to a standstill in a series both averaging 27.8 ppg.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-02-2014, 08:20 PM
:nod:

We are talking about a guy who played peak Lebron to a standstill in a series both averaging 27.8 ppg.

I know you like advanced stats. Why do you reference such a weird stat like that with no context to know who played better? You do know that the advanced stats kind of hate Melo right? Not just in that series. But for pretty much his whole career

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 08:21 PM
What could they do? It's completely within the rules of the CBA. They have absolutely no legal authority to prevent it. They didn't even stop guys like Ilgauskas when they were doing that 30 day in-season turnaround, what makes you think they'd stop a free agent from signing where he wants?



The whole premise of my post, and the whole topic being discussed in this thread, is that LAL is one of 3 teams he wants to go to. The very first words in my post were 'If we believe this report'. I don't know why the **** he wants to go to LAL, I'm saying that if he does (as reported) then the Knicks have no leverage.

If you want me to go beyond that and speculate about what reasons he could have for wanting to go there as opposed to staying in New York, I'd say 1) at this point he might just want a change of scenery; 2) LAL are the winningest franchise in NBA history and have had pretty good management in recent years, while the Knicks are historically middle of the pack and for the last decade have been run almost as bad as any team; 3) Kobe is likely a plus for him - you can't talk about his friendship with Paul in your last post but completely ignore his friendship with Kobe; 4) even if he thought that the Knicks had big 2015 potential, that's still another year of the same situation, which might be too much for him; 5) is it really that much worse to have D'Antoni than Woodson? At least the Lakers can afford to just hire D'Antoni, while Dolan's apparent loyalty to Woodson suggests he could stick around for a while.

I have no idea why he wants to go to LAL (if he even does), but it's absolutely possible that he wants to - there are plenty of reasons he might prefer it to NYK, it's just a matter of what his preferences are, which none of us know.

None of those reasons will get Carmelo a title. To relate it to real life, if you hate your job and go pick another job just for the sake of it, but end up hating it anyway, it won't solve the problem.

There's a reason Dwight Howard didn't stay in LA. His words were something along the lines of 'it would've been nice to play with Kobe 3 years ago'. Kobe's going to be 36 YEARS OLD to start the 2014-2015 season, coming off 20 seasons of mileage, an Achilles tear and a broken bone in his knee. Friendship plays a factor, but how good the player you're pairing with plays a major factor as well. He'll be in a much worse situation by pairing with an old fart whose getting paid $24 million a year.

And Melo hated playing for D'Antoni. Didn't like his style, not even sure he liked him as a person. I lived through that era to the point D'Antoni quit.

The only valid point you made was our incompetent management and the Lakers history of success. But that doesn't take away from the cut and dry point that if Melo signs with the Lakers, he's stuck with Mike D'Antoni and $33 million of the combined ages 76 - Kobe Bryant & Steve Nash with literally no other room to sign FAs.

Dade County
01-02-2014, 08:26 PM
HEAT foursome.

I would like to see Melo on these teams...

Rockets, Portland, Clippers (Cash Cow Griffin isn't going anywhere), or the HEAT (each player would have to take a paycut, or if Lbj leaves, Melo steps in).

Chronz
01-02-2014, 08:29 PM
I can't tell you how much wrong is associated with what you just said. It's ridicule.
That's your own shortcoming then, I can tell you exactly whats wrong with your posts. :D


Melo has always had his most success with a top notch PG, Chauncey Billups.
So let me get this straight, your analysis in 1 argument is that the 1-4 combo (You cited Nash, Stockton among others) doesn't work but Im suppose to be impressed by Melo's lone playoff run to the WCF? Yeah, totally consistent. So Melo+PG (and 1 run) = success but teams being more consistently dominant = fail? LMFAO. Spare me the simplistic stance plz.



Can you imagine the wonders he would do with Chris Paul by his side?
I can imagine him making our team worse, its easy to see when you pay attention to the roster outside of 2 players and how the pieces fit.


When you have a PG like Paul, Melo's 'style of play' would factor in very rarely. He's actually a really nice catch and shoot type of guy. Griffin has an awkward offensive game. You could never look at him like a true no. 1 on a team. His jump shot is awkward, his post game is awkward and his game screams of one that will deteriorate when his athleticism goes away in 5 years. See Amare Stoudemire. Because I have up close. And Griffin isn't nearly the offensive player Stoudemire was. And Melo is actually a much better defensive player than Griffin when he puts forth effort.
I would agree that CP3 and Blake weren't an ideal fit, but hes nothing like Amare, if he were, then he would actually be a better fit with CP3. And Im sorry but you have absolutely nothing to back the opinion that Melo is a better defender. Melo as a 4 man = a defensive sieve. The likes of which have to be masked. Blake is a far better team defender.

Blake's game might be awkward (a subjective complaint), but its improving every year. Hes actually hitting that jumper and his post game has gotten better, hes actually a better passer out of the post than Melo is. Its taken some time but Blake is rounding out the fundamental aspects of his game.


Griffin and Paul will take the Clippers as far as Amare and Nash took the Suns.
Right, because simplistic analysis has done wonders for your argument thus far.


Melo and Paul can take the Clips the Finals.
More like to the bottom of the defensive standings.


Melo has a pedigree of closing out games. While he hasn't lately, the scope of his career is that he can. He can score at will and when he goes on one of his hot streaks, he's the second best player in the league. See April 2013. Averaged 37 a game.
What if we dont buy into cliches? What if we already have a superior closer and what we need are guys who can do things like rebound and defend, both of which Blake does better than Melo as a 4.



And to get to your theory of Melo's contract -- why would the Clippers accept the deal unless Melo accepted an extension? That's the only contingency a deal would get done anyway. If he couldn't win in NY, Melo would love to be a Clip - so he'd probably sign on the dot to be with Paul.
Good point. Your first.


My views aren't simplistic, I'd like to think I'm right in this situation. Melo gets way too much flak for how good of a player he is. The fact is he's surrounded by a bunch of losers and a crappy head coach.
Me wanting to take the younger player, with a friendlier contract, with higher upside who fits a position of more importance isn't flak tho. And I dont buy into Melo being as good as you seemingly think he is, so we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. Ill enjoy this current Clippers team until Blake proves incapable of staying healthy come post season.

You'll see soon enough, I can say with full confidence that if the trade comes up, we wont be trading for Melo. Certainly not for Blake. Maybe if Blake suffers another post season injury.

DODGERS&LAKERS
01-02-2014, 08:32 PM
NYSpirit1None of those reasons will get Carmelo a title. To relate it to real life, if you hate your job and go pick another job just for the sake of it, but end up hating it anyway, it won't solve the problem.

There's a reason Dwight Howard didn't stay in LA. His words were something along the lines of 'it would've been nice to play with Kobe 3 years ago'. Kobe's going to be 36 YEARS OLD to start the 2014-2015 season, coming off 20 seasons of mileage, an Achilles tear and a broken bone in his knee. Friendship plays a factor, but how good the player you're pairing with plays a major factor as well. He'll be in a much worse situation by pairing with an old fart whose getting paid $24 million a year.

And Melo hated playing for D'Antoni. Didn't like his style, not even sure he liked him as a person. I lived through that era to the point D'Antoni quit.

The only valid point you made was our incompetent management and the Lakers history of success. But that doesn't take away from the cut and dry point that if Melo signs with the Lakers, he's stuck with Mike D'Antoni and $33 million of the combined ages 76 - Kobe Bryant & Steve Nash with literally no other room to sign FAs.

Bolded is not true. Lakers are going to use the stretch provision on Nash, D'Antoni is most likely in his last year, Pau might net something nice, and Kobe will be on the books for only two more years. And if things keep going our way, we will continue to lose players to injury and we will get a good draft pick. Something the Knicks don't have.The Lakers could sell Mello the same thing the Knicks are. Which is "We can sign a new max guy in 15-16." But the difference is one team has shown it is a bigger destination for NBA players. I say that not wanting Melo at all. Just pointing to the fact that the Lakers are not a bad place to sign after this year

Chronz
01-02-2014, 08:35 PM
:nod:

We are talking about a guy who played peak Lebron to a standstill in a series both averaging 27.8 ppg.

Remember when Richard Hamilton outplayed Kobe Bryant for the championship and without HCA..... oh wait, context matters.. damnit

BklynKnicks3
01-02-2014, 08:44 PM
People really believe this non sense lol melo retires a knick just putting knicks on notice like Kobe did n got gasol I already bet on it

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 08:53 PM
That's your own shortcoming then, I can tell you exactly whats wrong with your posts. :D

So let me get this straight, your analysis in 1 argument is that the 1-4 combo (You cited Nash, Stockton among others) doesn't work but Im suppose to be impressed by Melo's lone playoff run to the WCF? Yeah, totally consistent. So Melo+PG (and 1 run) = success but teams being more consistently dominant = fail? LMFAO. Spare me the simplistic stance plz.



I can imagine him making our team worse, its easy to see when you pay attention to the roster outside of 2 players and how the pieces fit.


I would agree that CP3 and Blake weren't an ideal fit, but hes nothing like Amare, if he were, then he would actually be a better fit with CP3. And Im sorry but you have absolutely nothing to back the opinion that Melo is a better defender. Melo as a 4 man = a defensive sieve. The likes of which have to be masked. Blake is a far better team defender.

Blake's game might be awkward (a subjective complaint), but its improving every year. Hes actually hitting that jumper and his post game has gotten better, hes actually a better passer out of the post than Melo is. Its taken some time but Blake is rounding out the fundamental aspects of his game.


Right, because simplistic analysis has done wonders for your argument thus far.


More like to the bottom of the defensive standings.


What if we dont buy into cliches? What if we already have a superior closer and what we need are guys who can do things like rebound and defend, both of which Blake does better than Melo as a 4.



Good point. Your first.


Me wanting to take the younger player, with a friendlier contract, with higher upside who fits a position of more importance isn't flak tho. And I dont buy into Melo being as good as you seemingly think he is, so we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. Ill enjoy this current Clippers team until Blake proves incapable of staying healthy come post season.

You'll see soon enough, I can say with full confidence that if the trade comes up, we wont be trading for Melo. Certainly not for Blake. Maybe if Blake suffers another post season injury.

My argument is the 1-4 combo hasn't worked, correct. But Melo isn't really a 4. He just plays it. He plays like a wing, Griffin plays like a big man. (To the point that him doing a fancy dribble was news).

Melo is the superior defensive player. He put forth a valiant effort last year. The only shortcoming is he gets injured more often playing down low with bigger players. DeAndre Jordan is a sound defensive player. He's among the leaders in blocks every season. I don't watch him enough to know how his man-to-man defense is. But I do know that CP3 is an elite defender on the perimeter.

Your argument for Blake actually holds up that he's improved, but his per game averages have actually sunk every year until this one. Last year was a bad statistical year for him. You failed to acknowledge my main point. Players that rely on athleticism don't age gracefully. So your argument that you'd rather have a younger player doesn't hold up. The fact is, Melo might be much better at 35 than Blake is at 30. All that time in the air, all that dunking takes tolls on your knees. It killed Amare, T-Mac and VC's career way prematurely. It'll kill Griffin's too. Don't think it won't.

Melo plays below the rim. Rarely dunks. He drives, he's physical, but he's more like a Paul Pierce - whose game aged beautifully (until now). Pierce could carry a team into his mid 30s. Melo is just 29.

You would know best what the Clips need if your a Clipper fan, but pure logic will tell you if you add a top 10 player to an already very, very good team with an elite PG and an elite coach, you'll be a title contender.

Take a long thought and ask yourself, if it's Game 7 of the WCF with a quarter to go… CP3 isn't having a good game.. do you really believe in Blake Griffin to take you to the promised land?

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 09:01 PM
Bolded is not true. Lakers are going to use the stretch provision on Nash, D'Antoni is most likely in his last year, Pau might net something nice, and Kobe will be on the books for only two more years. And if things keep going our way, we will continue to lose players to injury and we will get a good draft pick. Something the Knicks don't have.The Lakers could sell Mello the same thing the Knicks are. Which is "We can sign a new max guy in 15-16." But the difference is one team has shown it is a bigger destination for NBA players. I say that not wanting Melo at all. Just pointing to the fact that the Lakers are not a bad place to sign after this year

Who says D'Antoni is in his last year? And even if the Lakers somehow get Nash off the books, you'll only have $9 or so million for a supporting piece. The point is, at $24 million and 36 years old after multiple injuries & 20 seasons, Kobe Bryant is never going to get it done again. He's at best the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship team.

First off, the Lakers can't sell Melo on the same premise as the Knicks. They can sell him on a premise that's a year later. So Melo would be in a holding pattern for the next two seasons with a sidekick who is 36 and then 37 years old coming off multiple injuries and then come out of it all at 32 years old with MAYBE a chance to sign a second star.

Hmm.. why wouldn't he just stay with his hometown Knicks who he forced a trade to not even 3 years ago?

bholly
01-02-2014, 09:07 PM
None of those reasons will get Carmelo a title. To relate it to real life, if you hate your job and go pick another job just for the sake of it, but end up hating it anyway, it won't solve the problem.

There's a reason Dwight Howard didn't stay in LA. His words were something along the lines of 'it would've been nice to play with Kobe 3 years ago'. Kobe's going to be 36 YEARS OLD to start the 2014-2015 season, coming off 20 seasons of mileage, an Achilles tear and a broken bone in his knee. Friendship plays a factor, but how good the player you're pairing with plays a major factor as well. He'll be in a much worse situation by pairing with an old fart whose getting paid $24 million a year.

And Melo hated playing for D'Antoni. Didn't like his style, not even sure he liked him as a person. I lived through that era to the point D'Antoni quit.

The only valid point you made was our incompetent management and the Lakers history of success. But that doesn't take away from the cut and dry point that if Melo signs with the Lakers, he's stuck with Mike D'Antoni and $33 million of the combined ages 76 - Kobe Bryant & Steve Nash with literally no other room to sign FAs.

I'm going to try and explain this again, because it seems like you still don't understand. I'm not saying Melo prefers the Lakers. I'm not saying he should prefer the Lakers. I'm just saying that there are some reasons that he could prefer the Lakers, and if those things are big enough priorities for him then it's possible he'll go there. Just like there are some reasons he could prefer the Knicks, and if those things are big enough priorities for him then he'll stay. I'm not interested in getting into an argument about how we think he should feel about playing with Kobe, or speculating about his feelings about coaches that might not even be there, or whatever. I'm not interested in your opinions about why those things should or shouldn't be factors, or why he should stay with the Knicks.
There are reasons to prefer LAL and reasons to prefer NYK and reasons to prefer other teams - all that matters is how heavily Melo weights each of those reasons, and that's something that we just can't know, and no amount of arguing about it is going to change that. The bottom line is that it's possible that he prefers LAL, and if that's the case then the Knicks have no leverage.

Again, slowly, because you don't seem to be picking it up: I'm not saying he should go to LA, I'm not saying he wants to go to LA, I'm not saying he should want to go to LA. I'm saying that we can't rule out that he might want to go to LA - because none of us know how heavily he weights these various factors - and if he does want to go there then NYK have no leverage in how they deal with him.

NYSpirit1
01-02-2014, 09:17 PM
I'm going to try and explain this again, because it seems like you still don't understand. I'm not saying Melo prefers the Lakers. I'm not saying he should prefer the Lakers. I'm just saying that there are some reasons that he could prefer the Lakers, and if those things are big enough priorities for him then it's possible he'll go there. Just like there are some reasons he could prefer the Knicks, and if those things are big enough priorities for him then he'll stay. I'm not interested in getting into an argument about how we think he should feel about playing with Kobe, or speculating about his feelings about coaches that might not even be there, or whatever. I'm not interested in your opinions about why those things should or shouldn't be factors, or why he should stay with the Knicks.
There are reasons to prefer LAL and reasons to prefer NYK and reasons to prefer other teams - all that matters is how heavily Melo weights each of those reasons, and that's something that we just can't know, and no amount of arguing about it is going to change that. The bottom line is that it's possible that he prefers LAL, and if that's the case then the Knicks have no leverage.

Again, slowly, because you don't seem to be picking it up: I'm not saying he should go to LA, I'm not saying he wants to go to LA, I'm not saying he should want to go to LA. I'm saying that we can't rule out that he might want to go to LA - because none of us know how heavily he weights these various factors - and if he does want to go there then NYK have no leverage in how they deal with him.

I actually understand what you're saying perfectly, thank you. I know you're making a point that you personally don't think he should prefer something one way or another.

You're just arising the possibility. My point, however, was I don't think those are reasons he will want to go there. My point was that I think all hope of LA getting him was evaporated when Kobe signed a 2 year, $48 million extension instead of a 2 year, $15-$20 million extension.

We shall see.

Chronz
01-02-2014, 09:19 PM
My argument is the 1-4 combo hasn't worked, correct.
Melo ball hasn't worked, correct. So pointing out a singular run as some sort of impressive performance yet shunning the more impressive level of success isn't logical. Its downright hypocritical.


But Melo isn't really a 4. He just plays it. He plays like a wing, Griffin plays like a big man. (To the point that him doing a fancy dribble was news).
Thats precisely my point. We go from having a true bigman to someone whos at his best when he plays the position without having to defend as well as a true 4.


Melo is the superior defensive player.
LOL. I guess we are just gonna call each other liars on this one because we definitely dont see eye to eye here, the only difference being that the objective measures dont support your claims.



He put forth a valiant effort last year.
Valiant effort for his lack of size and lack of being a true 4 yes, but in terms of impact, he was well below the standard expected of bigmen.


The only shortcoming is he gets injured more often playing down low with bigger players.
LOL. Rly now? The ONLY shortcoming? So forget the fact that hes undersized and doesn't rebound as well as true 4's like Blake..... And not being able to stay healthy when playing down low with bigger players is kind of a big deal out West, so you trying to brush it off only further exposes the depths of your homerdom.


DeAndre Jordan is a sound defensive player. He's among the leaders in blocks every season. I don't watch him enough to know how his man-to-man defense is. But I do know that CP3 is an elite defender on the perimeter.
Whats hilarious is that DJ was pretty bad defensively last year, to the point where Blake was actually a superior defender for most of the year. But hey, blocks..... simplistic analysis for the win again


Your argument for Blake actually holds up that he's improved, but his per game averages have actually sunk every year until this one.
First thing you learn about stats is how much more important per possession and efficiency metrics are. His stats support an upward trajectory, that is, if you actually understand statistics.


Last year was a bad statistical year for him.
Only if your grasp of statistical accomplishments boil down to rudimentary averages that nobody in the business stresses.


You failed to acknowledge my main point. Players that rely on athleticism don't age gracefully. So your argument that you'd rather have a younger player doesn't hold up.
LOL this would be a great point if Melo and Blake were around the same age but by the time Blake reaches the point in his career where his game is in danger of dropping off, the team will be in a different position by then. My argument is that I'd rather have the younger player with an incredible work ethic/drive to improve. Over the guy whos pretty much stagnated and isn't overly impressive to begin with.


The fact is, Melo might be much better at 35 than Blake is at 30.
The fact is that the opposite could also be true, why would I care about hypothetical scenarios that are YEARS away from being realized when what matters is the immediate/foreseeable future. Its far more likely that as Blake enters his prime years, that hes playing at a higher level than an old Melo.


All that time in the air, all that dunking takes tolls on your knees. It killed Amare, T-Mac and VC's career way prematurely. It'll kill Griffin's too. Don't think it won't.
Simplistic analysis doesn't work on me remember, Tmac had a degenerative disk bulging in his back. You really trying to lump them all in the same category? Dominique dunked more than all of them, had less skill to his game than Tmac/Vince did, yet he outlasted them. Why? Uncanny athletic ability.


You would know best what the Clips need if your a Clipper fan, but pure logic will tell you if you add a top 10 player to an already very, very good team with an elite PG and an elite coach, you'll be a title contender.
We dont share the same opinions on what constitutes pure logic. I dont think the difference between Blake and Melo is significant enough to completely ignore the variables I mentioned. Certainly not with Blake just now finding his groove and Melo having such a meh season.


Take a long thought and ask yourself, if it's Game 7 of the WCF with a quarter to go… CP3 isn't having a good game.. do you really believe in Blake Griffin to take you to the promised land?
G7? You mean further than Melo has ever gone?

EL_MACHETE
01-03-2014, 12:30 AM
that's fine lol like i said we aren't desperate to make a trade and give up the house like y'all did . Our team isn't the one with the superstar trying to leave .


buurrrrnnnnnn :)

Kashmir13579
01-03-2014, 12:50 AM
Trade him!

Kashmir13579
01-03-2014, 12:53 AM
Melo ball hasn't worked, correct. So pointing out a singular run as some sort of impressive performance yet shunning the more impressive level of success isn't logical. Its downright hypocritical.


Thats precisely my point. We go from having a true bigman to someone whos at his best when he plays the position without having to defend as well as a true 4.


LOL. I guess we are just gonna call each other liars on this one because we definitely dont see eye to eye here, the only difference being that the objective measures dont support your claims.



Valiant effort for his lack of size and lack of being a true 4 yes, but in terms of impact, he was well below the standard expected of bigmen.


LOL. Rly now? The ONLY shortcoming? So forget the fact that hes undersized and doesn't rebound as well as true 4's like Blake..... And not being able to stay healthy when playing down low with bigger players is kind of a big deal out West, so you trying to brush it off only further exposes the depths of your homerdom.


Whats hilarious is that DJ was pretty bad defensively last year, to the point where Blake was actually a superior defender for most of the year. But hey, blocks..... simplistic analysis for the win again


First thing you learn about stats is how much more important per possession and efficiency metrics are. His stats support an upward trajectory, that is, if you actually understand statistics.


Only if your grasp of statistical accomplishments boil down to rudimentary averages that nobody in the business stresses.


LOL this would be a great point if Melo and Blake were around the same age but by the time Blake reaches the point in his career where his game is in danger of dropping off, the team will be in a different position by then. My argument is that I'd rather have the younger player with an incredible work ethic/drive to improve. Over the guy whos pretty much stagnated and isn't overly impressive to begin with.


The fact is that the opposite could also be true, why would I care about hypothetical scenarios that are YEARS away from being realized when what matters is the immediate/foreseeable future. Its far more likely that as Blake enters his prime years, that hes playing at a higher level than an old Melo.


Simplistic analysis doesn't work on me remember, Tmac had a degenerative disk bulging in his back. You really trying to lump them all in the same category? Dominique dunked more than all of them, had less skill to his game than Tmac/Vince did, yet he outlasted them. Why? Uncanny athletic ability.


We dont share the same opinions on what constitutes pure logic. I dont think the difference between Blake and Melo is significant enough to completely ignore the variables I mentioned. Certainly not with Blake just now finding his groove and Melo having such a meh season.


G7? You mean further than Melo has ever gone?
'Melo and "superior defender" is false 99% of the time lol
I've never seen another "star" so hot and cold on that end..

slashsnake
01-03-2014, 02:24 AM
I just kind of laugh when I hear Melo being a superior defender. There's a difference between being a good defender, and hustling for one loose ball a game. Lets just say I still have yet to see Melo take a charge or intimidate another offensive player with his defense. He rebounds well, but he's a big strong player with a lot of minutes so he should get some. That's really about it that I see from him other than making a talented steal here or there, or putting in a few minutes of high effort D at times.

And not sure about the "dunking kills your knees" bit. Vince had 10 or so years as a 20 point a game guy and is still scoring in double figures. Just a couple years ago he was still putting up highlight plays too. Stoudemire had knee issues, but over dunking? That's the one chance you get to jump and slow your fall. And what, a great dunker vs. a normal 6'10" forward might get two more dunks a game? Not buying that one. Kobe, Dr J, Dominique, VC, Drexler, Nance, Majerle, Jordan... Much better dunkers than Oden, Mashburn, Daugherty, Maravich, Hurley, Terrell Brandon, Walton etc.

I think if you build your game around the athleticism, being a dominant explosive player rather than a dominant fundamental player your career goes away with a leg injury or losing that step. Jordan and Kobe got their post game fade. Penny didn't. Sheed got a midrange and deep game. Kemp didn't.

I think Melo has good "old man game" where he can be effective without the burst.

shep33
01-03-2014, 02:54 AM
I would say that most Laker fans don't want Melo in LA.

Method28
01-03-2014, 03:11 AM
Melo and Rose with Thibs would be very very scary. Only problem is would Rose stay healthy. The Knicks would not include Hardaway with Melo. So the Melo + Hardaway wouldn't happen.

The Clippers would do Melo for Blake. Obviously there would have to be other pieces but people acting like it preposterous is foolish. I'm not saying we are going to get the Kings ransome for him. Add Melo to the Clips and they are right there with SAS and OKC.

What makes you think that? Is it the fact that Blake's game is evolving and he is becoming more and more a dominant player...or is it that you buy into ESPN's bs on his shortcomings.

Clips would be idiotic to trade blake for Melo straight up or including anything else the Knicks had as well. Blake is better suited for the Clips On and off the court.

Knicks21
01-03-2014, 04:45 AM
What makes you think that? Is it the fact that Blake's game is evolving and he is becoming more and more a dominant player...or is it that you buy into ESPN's bs on his shortcomings.

Clips would be idiotic to trade blake for Melo straight up or including anything else the Knicks had as well. Blake is better suited for the Clips On and off the court.

Doc Rivers would pull the trigger imo.

Chronz
01-03-2014, 04:48 AM
Doc Rivers would pull the trigger imo.

But Doc Rivers is trying to win.

BklynKnicks3
01-03-2014, 09:56 AM
Has nothing to do with melo nobody is winning anything with a 25 mill dead contract of amare

Bang Bros89
01-03-2014, 10:21 AM
Why would Melo want to go to Chicago? Besides Thibs and Butler, that team is a wreck.

Joakim can never stay healthy, DRose is looking like the next Amar'e

I mean, it isn't as bad a situation as the Knicks', but still, why Chicago? Between Rose, Gibson, Butler and Noah, if they get Melo, that team will be capped out until at least 2017. And DRose has already had 2 knee surgeries and he's only 25. That situation is only gonna get worse...

From a Knicks perspective, anything outside of Mirotic and Bobcats first/Bulls first I'd say no. Deng is an expiring, who the Knicks most likely won't/shouldn't resign. Deng's a 3rd option at best, whose probably going to get a contract around 4/60. He isn't worth more than 13 mil a year in my opinion. Especially not with all the wear and tear under Thibs' coaching.

Boozer? No

Pierzynski4Prez
01-03-2014, 10:56 AM
Why would Melo want to go to Chicago? Besides Thibs and Butler, that team is a wreck.

Joakim can never stay healthy, DRose is looking like the next Amar'e

I mean, it isn't as bad a situation as the Knicks', but still, why Chicago? Between Rose, Gibson, Butler and Noah, if they get Melo, that team will be capped out until at least 2017. And DRose has already had 2 knee surgeries and he's only 25. That situation is only gonna get worse...

From a Knicks perspective, anything outside of Mirotic and Bobcats first/Bulls first I'd say no. Deng is an expiring, who the Knicks most likely won't/shouldn't resign. Deng's a 3rd option at best, whose probably going to get a contract around 4/60. He isn't worth more than 13 mil a year in my opinion. Especially not with all the wear and tear under Thibs' coaching.

Boozer? No

What else would they need though? Bulls aren't breaking the bank for Melo, so if they did obtain him they would still have a few assets to build their bench, and don't forget Thibs.

Love your username by the way.

KniCks4LiFe
01-03-2014, 11:21 AM
Has nothing to do with melo nobody is winning anything with a 25 mill dead contract of amare

you're kidding right? It has nothing to do w/ Melo?

He's complaining about not having help. He has a contract he can play through. Instead he chose to OPT OUT! Nobody is winning anything w/ this mentality. You got teammates that look at you as a mercenary.

When players opt out, you as a team have to move on from that player. Especially when they have won nothing. He has contractual obligation to stay the course of his contract and get resigned in 2015. He chose to go into a highest bidder market, after all the loyalty this organization has shown him. This don't got nothing to do wit Stat no more.

KniCks4LiFe
01-03-2014, 11:41 AM
The position Melo put this team in boggles even the sanest people.

He knows, has to know next season our cap structure is at $91M

Summer 2015/16 our structure would be $12M, if he had any sense or patience, he'd know the Knicks can pay him. A $12M cap means cha-ching and we can then fill a roster. But instead, no this kat wants his money, but more importantly, he wants out.

This is why logical Knick fans have had the mindset of deal this kat away already.

Chronz
01-03-2014, 12:42 PM
'Melo and "superior defender" is false 99% of the time lol
I've never seen another "star" so hot and cold on that end..

I just kind of laugh when I hear Melo being a superior defender.
Ive been hearing about Melo's improved defensive effort since his Denver days. Still waiting for it to materialize in any sort of impactful way.

KniCks4LiFe
01-03-2014, 01:05 PM
Ive been hearing about Melo's improved defensive effort since his Denver days. Still waiting for it to materialize in any sort of impactful way.

It's a myth. Aside from a few swipes at driving defenders.

HYFR
01-03-2014, 01:40 PM
It's really confusing how he can be so physical on the offensive end but be so passive defensively.

KniCks4LiFe
01-03-2014, 01:45 PM
It's really confusing how he can be so physical on the offensive end but be so passive defensively.

instincts, they not there. In Syracuse he played zone, in H.S. prolly played unorganized ball. Flash forward to pro career average to below average defender. He in the last 2 seasons started using his body to rebound, he finally learned to position himself. But yeh, Melo is who he is defensively, it ain't ever getting better than it is.

MonroeFAN
01-03-2014, 01:48 PM
I'd do whatever if I were the Bulls. Give them Jimmy Butler and Deng for Melo.

That's what 'whatever' means to you? A fringe starter and half of Luol Deng?

Kenny
01-03-2014, 01:49 PM
It's really confusing how he can be so physical on the offensive end but be so passive defensively.

I honestly don't know what your talking about. Melo is pretty physical on defense thats why he guards Power fowards better than wing guys. Melo doesn't have the foot speed to be a elite defender even if he gave 110 percent effort. It's funny when I hear people say defense is all about effort. No, thats half the battle. Having the physical attributes to be good is the other half. Melo can be a lazy fighting through screens and off the ball defense. But he is a average defender. People who say he is terrible just don't watch. He can use his hands too much which gets him into foul trouble.

It's funny guys like Harden, Love and a bunch of other star players mostly get a pass for not being good defenders but Melo gets ripped for it. And Harden hurts his team much more with his weak defense than Melo.

KnicksorBust
01-03-2014, 02:12 PM
I honestly don't know what your talking about. Melo is pretty physical on defense thats why he guards Power fowards better than wing guys. Melo doesn't have the foot speed to be a elite defender even if he gave 110 percent effort. It's funny when I hear people say defense is all about effort. No, thats half the battle. Having the physical attributes to be good is the other half. Melo can be a lazy fighting through screens and off the ball defense. But he is a average defender. People who say he is terrible just don't watch. He can use his hands too much which gets him into foul trouble.

It's funny guys like Harden, Love and a bunch of other star players mostly get a pass for not being good defenders but Melo gets ripped for it. And Harden hurts his team much more with his weak defense than Melo.

Maybe in the mainstream media that's true but Harden's defense is hardly a secret on PSD. And in the media that's mostly because they are young developing players and Love hasn't even sniffed the playoffs yet. You forget Melo has been in the playoffs 10 years and on several competitive teams. He's also a MAX player and a multi-time Olympian. Of course the spot-light is going to be more on him.

KnicksorBust
01-03-2014, 02:15 PM
Why would Melo want to go to Chicago? Besides Thibs and Butler, that team is a wreck.

Joakim can never stay healthy, DRose is looking like the next Amar'e

I mean, it isn't as bad a situation as the Knicks', but still, why Chicago? Between Rose, Gibson, Butler and Noah, if they get Melo, that team will be capped out until at least 2017. And DRose has already had 2 knee surgeries and he's only 25. That situation is only gonna get worse...

From a Knicks perspective, anything outside of Mirotic and Bobcats first/Bulls first I'd say no. Deng is an expiring, who the Knicks most likely won't/shouldn't resign. Deng's a 3rd option at best, whose probably going to get a contract around 4/60. He isn't worth more than 13 mil a year in my opinion. Especially not with all the wear and tear under Thibs' coaching.

Boozer? No

Good point. All they would have is:

PG - Rose
SG - Butler
SF - Melo
PF - Gibson
C - Noah

Being capped out with only a complete and balanced starting 5 with 3 All-Stars would be a bad situation. Oh no wait, that team could win a title.

Linkels
01-03-2014, 02:18 PM
And if we could somehow retain a top 5 pick and select Marcus Smart with that roster. :cool:

effen5
01-03-2014, 02:24 PM
Good point. All they would have is:

PG - Rose
SG - Butler
SF - Melo
PF - Gibson
C - Noah

Being capped out with only a complete and balanced starting 5 with 3 All-Stars would be a bad situation. Oh no wait, that team could win a title.

Niko mirotic would start as pf and hes europes MVP :)

shep33
01-03-2014, 02:31 PM
Good point. All they would have is:

PG - Rose
SG - Butler
SF - Melo
PF - Gibson
C - Noah

Being capped out with only a complete and balanced starting 5 with 3 All-Stars would be a bad situation. Oh no wait, that team could win a title.

I agree with you, but if Rose isn't the same player again that's an amare situation all over again . Outside of melo nobody can consistently put up 15 if Rose goes down.

waveycrockett
01-03-2014, 02:55 PM
I can't blame Melo. The vision was to have Amare-Melo-CP3 and the Knicks blew that when they inexplicably traded away too much for Melo, Amnestied Billups huge expiring and blew the remaining cap space on Tyson Chandler. Even with Amare out of the picture a team with Melo and CP3 is going to contend

Pacerlive
01-03-2014, 03:31 PM
Good point. All they would have is:

PG - Rose
SG - Butler
SF - Melo
PF - Gibson
C - Noah

Being capped out with only a complete and balanced starting 5 with 3 All-Stars would be a bad situation. Oh no wait, that team could win a title.

I have no clue why people think the Knicks would flip Melo for 2 late lotto picks and not get back a proven player for him and expiring Deng doesn't do squat for them. The Bulls can't do a sign and trade with Deng because the Knicks can't recieve a sign and trade player while paying the LT.

My prediction is that the Knicks hold onto the fantasy that they can retain Melo and they lose him to the Lakers who have the cap space to sign him outright.

KnicksorBust
01-03-2014, 05:07 PM
I can't blame Melo. The vision was to have Amare-Melo-CP3 and the Knicks blew that when they inexplicably traded away too much for Melo, Amnestied Billups huge expiring and blew the remaining cap space on Tyson Chandler. Even with Amare out of the picture a team with Melo and CP3 is going to contend

Using the amnesty on Billups to sign Tyson Chandler was one of the best decisions the Knicks have made in the last 15 years.


I have no clue why people think the Knicks would flip Melo for 2 late lotto picks and not get back a proven player for him and expiring Deng doesn't do squat for them. The Bulls can't do a sign and trade with Deng because the Knicks can't recieve a sign and trade player while paying the LT.

My prediction is that the Knicks hold onto the fantasy that they can retain Melo and they lose him to the Lakers who have the cap space to sign him outright.

I half agree with you in that I believe the Knicks should hold on to this "fantasy" but I disagree with the second part. Why would he leave for LA?

Sandman
01-03-2014, 05:25 PM
Using the amnesty on Billups to sign Tyson Chandler was one of the best decisions the Knicks have made in the last 15 years.

Signing Chandler perhaps, but exercising an option on a guy and burning the amnesty on him in the same weekend is baffling.

OK I don't remember if it was the same weekend, but you get the point. Thats an all-time head scratcher.

Pacerlive
01-03-2014, 05:33 PM
Using the amnesty on Billups to sign Tyson Chandler was one of the best decisions the Knicks have made in the last 15 years.



I half agree with you in that I believe the Knicks should hold on to this "fantasy" but I disagree with the second part. Why would he leave for LA?
IF they hold on to him then the Clippers won't be able to sign him out right and can't get him via a sign and trade so that leaves the Bulls or the Lakers as possible teams for him. Bulls also can't send Deng to the Knicks via sign and trade so I don't see them giving up a lot for him either.

KnicksorBust
01-03-2014, 05:43 PM
IF they hold on to him then the Clippers won't be able to sign him out right and can't get him via a sign and trade so that leaves the Bulls or the Lakers as possible teams for him. Bulls also can't send Deng to the Knicks via sign and trade so I don't see them giving up a lot for him either.

Okay... you didn't answer my question. Why would he leave for LA?

Chronz
01-03-2014, 05:45 PM
Okay... you didn't answer my question. Why would he leave for LA?
Blind faith that LA can serve his legacy better?

Isn't that perpetual grass is always greener on the other side type of thought that led to Melo leaving a great situation in Denver for the risk of NY?

Pacerlive
01-03-2014, 06:09 PM
Okay... you didn't answer my question. Why would he leave for LA?
LA will have the unknowns answered sooner than New York. Meaning Melo doens't know what will happen with the majority of the the Knicks roster but one thing is for sure is that the upgrades didn't pan out so I see his only viable option is to go to LA.

I also think he wants to play next to a proven scorer as well.

Jamiecballer
01-03-2014, 06:12 PM
Its beyond me why any of those teams would want to acquire him. Why acquire someone who has proven to be incapable of playing team basketball? He sells tickets and jerseys but that's it.

kobe4thewinbang
01-03-2014, 06:32 PM
Bulls doesn't make sense. Rose is made of glass. Who else do they have to help him? Lakers are trash, so Clippers makes the most sense.

Trueblue2
01-03-2014, 06:32 PM
I feel like the clippers would be a much better team w him instead of Blake so long as they get a 4 capable of playing d in the deal. Hell even metta would do and im sure he wouldn't mind playing in LA.

Trueblue2
01-03-2014, 06:38 PM
Okay... you didn't answer my question. Why would he leave for LA?

Because in 2015 its him amd kobe on the roster and nobody else w free agents like lma love and rondo available and ~20 mil in cap + full mle that year. Clean slate vs sinking ship.

Also an old injured overpaid kobe is still miles ahead of jr Smith. And kupchack >>>>> dolan.

EL_MACHETE
01-03-2014, 07:12 PM
Because in 2015 its him amd kobe on the roster and nobody else w free agents like lma love and rondo available and ~20 mil in cap + full mle that year. Clean slate vs sinking ship.

Also an old injured overpaid kobe is still miles ahead of jr Smith. And kupchack >>>>> dolan.

this

KnicksorBust
01-03-2014, 07:27 PM
Blind faith that LA can serve his legacy better?

Isn't that perpetual grass is always greener on the other side type of thought that led to Melo leaving a great situation in Denver for the risk of NY?

Amar'e and going "home" were the overwhelming selling points of that decision. In regards to you calling Denver a great situation...I was going to disagree with you but I looked at that roster...

PG - Chauncey Billups (with Ty Lawson backing him up)
SG - Arron Afflalo
SF - Carmelo Anthony
PF - Kenyon Martin
C - Nene

That's not bad at all... I'm still in the "Melo is better at PF" crowd but he could have won 50 games every year for the foreseeable future with Lawson/Afflalo/Nene. I would die if we could get a player like Lawson or Afflalo on the Knicks to get the ball out of his hands. Felton/JR/Shumpert/Beno are not the players to take him/us to the next level.


LA will have the unknowns answered sooner than New York. Meaning Melo doens't know what will happen with the majority of the the Knicks roster but one thing is for sure is that the upgrades didn't pan out so I see his only viable option is to go to LA.

I also think he wants to play next to a proven scorer as well.

How will LA be more settled when their cap space is the same year as the Knicks?


Its beyond me why any of those teams would want to acquire him. Why acquire someone who has proven to be incapable of playing team basketball? He sells tickets and jerseys but that's it.

How'd the Knicks win 54 games last year with him then?


Because in 2015 its him amd kobe on the roster and nobody else w free agents like lma love and rondo available and ~20 mil in cap + full mle that year. Clean slate vs sinking ship.

Also an old injured overpaid kobe is still miles ahead of jr Smith. And kupchack >>>>> dolan.

Interesting debate. Which is more valuable: Kobe for $30 million or JR Smith for $6 million? I don't believe LAL will have the cap to pay a max FA with Kobe and Melo on the books. Correct me if I'm wrong? The Knicks meanwhile will def have enough for another max in 2015.

Pacerlive
01-03-2014, 08:57 PM
How will LA be more settled when their cap space is the same year as the Knicks?
You lost me. You think Amare and Bargs will opt out after this year with Melo?

That would be the dumbest move they could do.

The lakers cap space is this up coming FA period which is why Melo would choose the franchise with more cap flexibility and more promise now rather than later when he is older.

They could also get Gortat for a reasonable deal as well if they decide to waive Pau Gasol cap hold but regardless JR is no more than a Nick Young at this point. He is no where near a Kobe even if he is injured.

All the cap holds for the Lakers make them easily more flexible. They can bring back Jordan Hill and go over the cap to do so while keeping their mle for other players. If Nash retires then that also frees up more space as well so to me it just makes more sense.

Jamiecballer
01-03-2014, 09:51 PM
How'd the Knicks win 54 games last year with him then?
He's very talented but you can only go so far with a player like that.

But to answer your question they got there on the strength of his play and unsustainable 3 point shooting.

Trueblue2
01-04-2014, 04:22 AM
Amar'e and going "home" were the overwhelming selling points of that decision. In regards to you calling Denver a great situation...I was going to disagree with you but I looked at that roster...

PG - Chauncey Billups (with Ty Lawson backing him up)
SG - Arron Afflalo
SF - Carmelo Anthony
PF - Kenyon Martin
C - Nene

That's not bad at all... I'm still in the "Melo is better at PF" crowd but he could have won 50 games every year for the foreseeable future with Lawson/Afflalo/Nene. I would die if we could get a player like Lawson or Afflalo on the Knicks to get the ball out of his hands. Felton/JR/Shumpert/Beno are not the players to take him/us to the next level.



How will LA be more settled when their cap space is the same year as the Knicks?



How'd the Knicks win 54 games last year with him then?



Interesting debate. Which is more valuable: Kobe for $30 million or JR Smith for $6 million? I don't believe LAL will have the cap to pay a max FA with Kobe and Melo on the books. Correct me if I'm wrong? The Knicks meanwhile will def have enough for another max in 2015.

Kobes cap hit will be around 23mil not 30, say melo takes 20/year and lakers dont make any significant salary commitments just signing one year deals like this year. 2015 projected cap is around 63mil. Theyd have arouud 20mil to spend on a max player in '15. Plus the full mle as they wont be in the luxury next year

Also when kobe expires they can go after another star in '16.

JordansBulls
01-04-2014, 04:58 PM
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/01/02/sheridan-what-could-the-knicks-get-for-carmelo-anthony/

JordansBulls
01-05-2014, 04:28 PM
I would do this deal easily.

Taj Gibson, Luol Deng, the rights to Nikola Mirotic, or a future No. 1 pick, for Anthony

Jamiecballer
01-05-2014, 05:07 PM
I would do this deal easily.

Taj Gibson, Luol Deng, the rights to Nikola Mirotic, or a future No. 1 pick, for Anthony
And I would laugh my *** off. All that for Anthony? Are you that certain Rose is toast or something?

Stunner
01-05-2014, 06:45 PM
Honestly believe at this point Melo will be either a Knick or Bull next year unless another team is added to his list or if Hou decides to go after him . Idk if Hou would give up Asik , Lin and Parsons for Melo . I know the Knicks would ask

JordansBulls
01-05-2014, 10:49 PM
And I would laugh my *** off. All that for Anthony? Are you that certain Rose is toast or something?

Of course for Anthony. Wouldn't you give that up for prime Nique?

Jamiecballer
01-06-2014, 01:40 AM
Of course for Anthony. Wouldn't you give that up for prime Nique?

Honestly no. The only teams that should be interested in him are struggling teams with no real star IMO. He's good enough to get you to the postseason and he's good for the gate but his game comes at the expense of others so if you've already got a star stay away.

JordansBulls
01-06-2014, 06:00 PM
Honestly no. The only teams that should be interested in him are struggling teams with no real star IMO. He's good enough to get you to the postseason and he's good for the gate but his game comes at the expense of others so if you've already got a star stay away.

But what about teams that depend on one star and can't win because they only got that one star? Example the Bulls won't win with what they have especially with a star who is injured. May be time to bring in another star to at least help out and be the #1 guy so that Rose doesn't have to carry the burden. Maybe in the playoffs it could switch off but in the regular season the Bulls need someone more reliable and quite frankly this may be the only way they can get another star before Rose's contract is up.

BklynKnicks3
01-06-2014, 07:37 PM
lol at melo to the bulls

Jamiecballer
01-06-2014, 08:54 PM
But what about teams that depend on one star and can't win because they only got that one star? Example the Bulls won't win with what they have especially with a star who is injured. May be time to bring in another star to at least help out and be the #1 guy so that Rose doesn't have to carry the burden. Maybe in the playoffs it could switch off but in the regular season the Bulls need someone more reliable and quite frankly this may be the only way they can get another star before Rose's contract is up.
OK I hear you but here is my concern with that.

One is that the vast majority of superstars would have a difficult time relinquishing their status as the man in the capacity you are describing.

And why prioritize the regular season? If you've got a superstar like Rose you just need to get in to have a shot at the title. Acquiring Melo would require probably one of them to sacrifice in the postseason and that's not something Melo has ever shown willingness to do.

Sandman
01-06-2014, 11:07 PM
OK I hear you but here is my concern with that.

One is that the vast majority of superstars would have a difficult time relinquishing their status as the man in the capacity you are describing.

And why prioritize the regular season? If you've got a superstar like Rose you just need to get in to have a shot at the title. Acquiring Melo would require probably one of them to sacrifice in the postseason and that's not something Melo has ever shown willingness to do.
Melo is also one of the few guys that can iso down and score against just about anybody.

I think better PG play is the key to better efficiency from Melo.

Any team would love to have him. Would they love to pay him 30m per year no. Thats not an insult.

Jamiecballer
01-06-2014, 11:55 PM
Melo is also one of the few guys that can iso down and score against just about anybody.

I think better PG play is the key to better efficiency from Melo.

Any team would love to have him. Would they love to pay him 30m per year no. Thats not an insult.
I think you are quite wrong if you think there aren't at least a few stat oriented GMs that would say thanks but no thanks. 15 years ago, 10 even maybe but not today.

Sandman
01-07-2014, 12:52 AM
I think you are quite wrong if you think there aren't at least a few stat oriented GMs that would say thanks but no thanks. 15 years ago, 10 even maybe but not today.

it depends on the make up of the team.

I won't argue against Melo's advanced stats being ugly, but I think they can improve if you improve the team. Like any other player he can be a piece of the puzzle.

JordansBulls
01-07-2014, 04:58 PM
it depends on the make up of the team.

I won't argue against Melo's advanced stats being ugly, but I think they can improve if you improve the team. Like any other player he can be a piece of the puzzle.

You definitely need another superstar with Melo in order to win. He has yet to play with someone better than he is or his level on the team that is why he hasnt won yet. Put him on the Bulls when Rose was healthy or the Clippers with CP3 healthy and that is a different story.

Jamiecballer
01-07-2014, 06:21 PM
You definitely need another superstar with Melo in order to win. He has yet to play with someone better than he is or his level on the team that is why he hasnt won yet. Put him on the Bulls when Rose was healthy or the Clippers with CP3 healthy and that is a different story.

I imagine it working out exactly like last years Lakers.

Nycbball08
01-07-2014, 07:04 PM
You people should stop believing everything you read.., this chit is funnier than def comedy jam...lmao

Jamiecballer
01-07-2014, 08:40 PM
You people should stop believing everything you read.., this chit is funnier than def comedy jam...lmao

If I believed most of what I read i'd believe Melo was a superstar.

NBA_Starter
01-07-2014, 10:52 PM
It looks like the Bulls are trying to clear room to make a run at him.

koreancabbage
01-08-2014, 12:10 AM
You people should stop believing everything you read.., this chit is funnier than def comedy jam...lmao

hopefully teams won't fall for the fake superstar in Melo.

NYJ - NYY
01-08-2014, 11:25 AM
You people should stop believing everything you read.., this chit is funnier than def comedy jam...lmao

hopefully teams won't fall for the fake superstar in Melo.

Yup... Hopefully

NBA-GMaster
01-08-2014, 12:01 PM
Go to bulls!!

nycericanguy
01-08-2014, 12:56 PM
But what about teams that depend on one star and can't win because they only got that one star? Example the Bulls won't win with what they have especially with a star who is injured. May be time to bring in another star to at least help out and be the #1 guy so that Rose doesn't have to carry the burden. Maybe in the playoffs it could switch off but in the regular season the Bulls need someone more reliable and quite frankly this may be the only way they can get another star before Rose's contract is up.

don't mind him, he's always trying to spread anti-knicks propaganda everywhere...lol

And advanced stats don't hate Melo, the guy has a shooting line of 45/40/85, there is nothing inefficient about that. he's giving you 26/9/3 with a 24 PER. He's quietly become a deadly 3pt shooter since coming to NY, close to 40%.

And one thing Melo never gets credit for, he almost never turns it over. For a guy that plays 39mpg and has such a high usage rate and has the ball so much, he only averages 2.2 To's per game. That's insanely good. Compare that to Harden for instance who has a similar usage, Harden is always at around 4 to's per game.

No he doesn't shoot 49% like Durant, but he doesn't have a side kick either. You look at Dwyane Wade shooting 54%, I guarantee you Wade wouldn't be shooting 54% in NY if he was alone with JR smith.

bholly
01-08-2014, 01:44 PM
It looks like the Bulls are trying to clear room to make a run at him.

Have the Bulls cleared any room at all?

Pierzynski4Prez
01-08-2014, 01:54 PM
Have the Bulls cleared any room at all?

Not in regards to 2014 cap space no. People don't realize this doesn't give us any more cap space this summer than we were already going to have, which is none unless a number of moves are made.

Sandman
01-08-2014, 02:03 PM
Have the Bulls cleared any room at all?

Not explicitly, but the decision to renounce/trade and not re-sign Deng is a big one. Now the only major obstacle is Boozer.

KnickaBocka.44
01-08-2014, 02:23 PM
Not explicitly, but the decision to renounce/trade and not re-sign Deng is a big one. Now the only major obstacle is Boozer.

Who can be amnestied in the off-season.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 02:49 PM
don't mind him, he's always trying to spread anti-knicks propaganda everywhere...lol

And advanced stats don't hate Melo, the guy has a shooting line of 45/40/85, there is nothing inefficient about that. he's giving you 26/9/3 with a 24 PER. He's quietly become a deadly 3pt shooter since coming to NY, close to 40%.

And one thing Melo never gets credit for, he almost never turns it over. For a guy that plays 39mpg and has such a high usage rate and has the ball so much, he only averages 2.2 To's per game. That's insanely good. Compare that to Harden for instance who has a similar usage, Harden is always at around 4 to's per game.

No he doesn't shoot 49% like Durant, but he doesn't have a side kick either. You look at Dwyane Wade shooting 54%, I guarantee you Wade wouldn't be shooting 54% in NY if he was alone with JR smith.

He absolutely kills ball movement. He's not a winner. He's incredibly skilled but he's just not a winner.

Sandman
01-08-2014, 03:07 PM
He absolutely kills ball movement. He's not a winner. He's incredibly skilled but he's just not a winner.

This is a myth. Having no PG kills your ball movement a whole lot more than Carmelo does. Melo creates spacing on the floor but that doesn't mean he needs to be the one carrying the ball up the court.

And the "not a winner" crap? W/e. They say that about anyone who hasn't been on a championship team. They said it about LeBron, they said it about Kobe w/o Shaq, they say it in all sports. They said A-Rod wasn't a winner hell they even said Phil Mickelson was not a winner. Its what haters say when they run out of things to hate on.

koreancabbage
01-08-2014, 03:15 PM
This is a myth. Having no PG kills your ball movement a whole lot more than Carmelo does. Melo creates spacing on the floor but that doesn't mean he needs to be the one carrying the ball up the court.

And the "not a winner" crap? W/e. They say that about anyone who hasn't been on a championship team. They said it about LeBron, they said it about Kobe w/o Shaq, they say it in all sports. They said A-Rod wasn't a winner hell they even said Phil Mickelson was not a winner. Its what haters say when they run out of things to hate on.

don't even try lol. there is no point. Until Melo wins a championship, he's really going to be known for all the stuff you say that isn't true.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 03:25 PM
This is a myth. Having no PG kills your ball movement a whole lot more than Carmelo does. Melo creates spacing on the floor but that doesn't mean he needs to be the one carrying the ball up the court.

And the "not a winner" crap? W/e. They say that about anyone who hasn't been on a championship team. They said it about LeBron, they said it about Kobe w/o Shaq, they say it in all sports. They said A-Rod wasn't a winner hell they even said Phil Mickelson was not a winner. Its what haters say when they run out of things to hate on.

Gee did I miss something? When did the Knicks start playing without a point guard. Surprised the league would allow that LOL.

Ball movement comes from passing not point guards anyways.

lol, please
01-08-2014, 03:31 PM
He knows he would come off the bench on the Dubs.

Sandman
01-08-2014, 03:35 PM
Gee did I miss something? When did the Knicks start playing without a point guard. Surprised the league would allow that LOL.
:rolleyes: PG play for the Knicks is in the bottom 5 of the league.

Ball movement comes from passing not point guards anyways.
and what position on the court is generally responsible for passing and running plays for the offense?

nycericanguy
01-08-2014, 04:02 PM
He absolutely kills ball movement. He's not a winner. He's incredibly skilled but he's just not a winner.

hmm then why do his teams just flat out win every year since he came into the league?

DEN the year before Melo had a .207 winning percentage. Then Melo came

.524
.598
.537
.549
.610
.659
.646
.610

NY the year before they traded for Melo had a .354 winning percentage

Since

.512
.545
.659

Granted they've struggled this year but there is a lot of season left and i'd bet Melo takes the knicks to the atlantic title when its all said and done.

Now has he won a title? No... but he's never had the cast around him that could really contend for a title, unless you think he should be held to some super human standard where he should win a title alone. Took LBJ 9 years and teaming up with not one, but TWO other superstars before he could win. Durant couldn't win with WB, Harden & Ibaka... CP3 hasn't won with Blake who is miles better than anyone Melo has ever played with.

only 8 teams have won a title in the last 30 years, you need at least 1 top 10 player of all time and usually another HOF'er next to him. If everyone else "isn't a winner" then this league sure if full of a bunch of losers.

If you want to say Melo bully ball can be ugly at times I give you that, but this idea that Melo isn't a winner? Please... the man has carried teams year in and year out to 50+ wins in either conference. Not to mention carrying Syracuse to a title at 18.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 06:51 PM
:rolleyes: PG play for the Knicks is in the bottom 5 of the league.
and what is the relevance? the vast majority of Carmelo Anthony touches result in a Carmelo Anthony field goal attempt. and that's got nothing to do with his point guard.

and considering a large chunk of the "good" point guards in the NBA are actually inhibiting good ball movement with their play as much as helping it...


and what position on the court is generally responsible for passing and running plays for the offense?
how on earth is this relevant to whether he stops ball movement or not?

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 07:02 PM
hmm then why do his teams just flat out win every year since he came into the league?

DEN the year before Melo had a .207 winning percentage. Then Melo came

.524
.598
.537
.549
.610
.659
.646
.610

NY the year before they traded for Melo had a .354 winning percentage

Since

.512
.545
.659

Granted they've struggled this year but there is a lot of season left and i'd bet Melo takes the knicks to the atlantic title when its all said and done.

Now has he won a title? No... but he's never had the cast around him that could really contend for a title, unless you think he should be held to some super human standard where he should win a title alone. Took LBJ 9 years and teaming up with not one, but TWO other superstars before he could win. Durant couldn't win with WB, Harden & Ibaka... CP3 hasn't won with Blake who is miles better than anyone Melo has ever played with.

only 8 teams have won a title in the last 30 years, you need at least 1 top 10 player of all time and usually another HOF'er next to him. If everyone else "isn't a winner" then this league sure if full of a bunch of losers.

If you want to say Melo bully ball can be ugly at times I give you that, but this idea that Melo isn't a winner? Please... the man has carried teams year in and year out to 50+ wins in either conference. Not to mention carrying Syracuse to a title at 18.

we need to define winner then.

no man can win it alone - totally in agreement. he's a fabulous talent, and being the most talented player on the court most nights will get you a healthy amount of regular season wins on a yearly basis. there is no denying that.

but you can't play the one man band act in the playoffs when preparation and intensity go up 1000%. teams will absolutely make his teammates beat them. it's not a good time to explore the idea of being unselfish, not that Melo has ever done so.

so what do i mean by winner then. when i say winner, what i am really saying is does your style of play put a ceiling on how high you can go? and the answer is a resounding yes.

the bulls would be so much better off had they just retained Deng than if they go after Melo IMO.

Nighthawk
01-08-2014, 07:07 PM
Celtics trade Jeff Green, Pressey, Olynyk, Humphries an how ever many picks needed for Melo

Sandman
01-08-2014, 07:34 PM
and what is the relevance? the vast majority of Carmelo Anthony touches result in a Carmelo Anthony field goal attempt. and that's got nothing to do with his point guard.

and considering a large chunk of the "good" point guards in the NBA are actually inhibiting good ball movement with their play as much as helping it...


how on earth is this relevant to whether he stops ball movement or not?
It has everything to do with the amount of touches & the quality of touches. How would it NOT be relevant? He shouldn't need to be any more of a facilitator than a player like Dirk Nowitzki.

I don't need Melo to be different, he is not toxic to this team. This would be the first time a Melo team finishes under .500, right? He can continue to shoot the same % of times he has the ball, if they had a better PG play he would shoot better as would the guys around him.

Besides, I dunno how you can look at a team with Bargs, JR Smith and Melo and come up with Melo as the inefficient chucker that is bringing the team down.

nycericanguy
01-08-2014, 07:50 PM
we need to define winner then.

no man can win it alone - totally in agreement. he's a fabulous talent, and being the most talented player on the court most nights will get you a healthy amount of regular season wins on a yearly basis. there is no denying that.

but you can't play the one man band act in the playoffs when preparation and intensity go up 1000%. teams will absolutely make his teammates beat them. it's not a good time to explore the idea of being unselfish, not that Melo has ever done so.

so what do i mean by winner then. when i say winner, what i am really saying is does your style of play put a ceiling on how high you can go? and the answer is a resounding yes.

the bulls would be so much better off had they just retained Deng than if they go after Melo IMO.

Kevin Love would like a word with you...

Was KG a loser until he got traded to a team with 3 other all stars?

Was Bosh a loser until he joined Wade & LBJ?

Melo's career winning % is astounding, so is the fact that he's never had a losing season... EVER... at any level.

Yet you say "he's not a winner" why exactly?

Because he hasn't beaten more talented teams in the playoffs? Losing to Kobe & Shaq, Duncan, Manu & Parker, LBJ, Wade & Bosh, PG & Hibbert... there's no shame in that.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 07:58 PM
It has everything to do with the amount of touches & the quality of touches. How would it NOT be relevant? He shouldn't need to be any more of a facilitator than a player like Dirk Nowitzki.

I don't need Melo to be different, he is not toxic to this team. This would be the first time a Melo team finishes under .500, right? He can continue to shoot the same % of times he has the ball, if they had a better PG play he would shoot better as would the guys around him.

Besides, I dunno how you can look at a team with Bargs, JR Smith and Melo and come up with Melo as the inefficient chucker that is bringing the team down.
^ I didn't.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 08:07 PM
Kevin Love would like a word with you...

Was KG a loser until he got traded to a team with 3 other all stars?

Was Bosh a loser until he joined Wade & LBJ?

Melo's career winning % is astounding, so is the fact that he's never had a losing season... EVER... at any level.

Yet you say "he's not a winner" why exactly?

Because he hasn't beaten more talented teams in the playoffs? Losing to Kobe & Shaq, Duncan, Manu & Parker, LBJ, Wade & Bosh, PG & Hibbert... there's no shame in that.

I have no problem continuing this conversation but if you are going to ask why I say he isn't a winner again after I went to the trouble of bolding it in the last post then there is no point.

You keep using your definition of winner which is apparently regular season wins - not mine. Again, I bolded it for you.

North Yorker
01-08-2014, 08:17 PM
I have no problem continuing this conversation but if you are going to ask why I say he isn't a winner again after I went to the trouble of bolding it in the last post then there is no point.

You keep using your definition of winner which is apparently regular season wins - not mine. Again, I bolded it for you.

Except he does win, as pointed out. To say he isn't a winner is just plain false. That's something you could say about guys like Irving, Love, Cousins, etc.

Whatever point you were trying to make was poorly conveyed.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 08:29 PM
Except he does win, as pointed out. To say he isn't a winner is just plain false. That's something you could say about guys like Irving, Love, Cousins, etc.

Whatever point you were trying to make was poorly conveyed.

Do you not understand what is meant by the phrase "such and such is/isn't a winner"?

It seldom has anything to do with a quantity of wins but someone's likelihood of reaching their potential.

North Yorker
01-08-2014, 08:40 PM
Do you not understand what is meant by the phrase "such and such is/isn't a winner"?

It seldom has anything to do with a quantity of wins but someone's likelihood of reaching their potential.

So you would classify Love as a "winner" then, right? He would be by your definition despite the fact of him never winning anything.. interesting.

No need to make up definitions to make your argument sound better.

ManRam
01-08-2014, 08:44 PM
Won't be mad if he goes to any of those teams. Not a fan of any of them, so I certainly don't mind Melo going any of those 3 places. He won't be carrying them to championships. LAC would be the scariest because of Paul, but it would take some creativity to get him via a S&T. Seems unlikely.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 08:48 PM
So you would classify Love as a "winner" then, right? He would be by your definition despite the fact of him never winning anything.. interesting.
yes. his personal success does not come at the expense of his teammates. he can only do so much, especially as a front court player. it is much easier for a guard or wing player to carry their team because it's acceptable for them to dominate the crap out of the ball. thus answering the earlier point someone made about KG, Bosh and Love.

No need to make up definitions to make your argument sound better.

:laugh:

85BearsDefense
01-08-2014, 08:52 PM
If I'm Chicago I trade Dunleavy, Kirk, and Gibson now. Amnesty Boozer. Go into FA with potentially a top pick (used on a stud), Rose, Butler, Snell, Noah.

nycericanguy
01-08-2014, 08:59 PM
I have no problem continuing this conversation but if you are going to ask why I say he isn't a winner again after I went to the trouble of bolding it in the last post then there is no point.

You keep using your definition of winner which is apparently regular season wins - not mine. Again, I bolded it for you.

"does your style of play put a ceiling on how high you can go?"

that's what you bolded?

Ladies and gentlemen... the definition of being a "winner".

So we should close the thread now right?

Or maybe we should actually go by results instead of some contrived made up statement that you quality as "winning"...lol

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 09:04 PM
"does your style of play put a ceiling on how high you can go?"

that's what you bolded?

Ladies and gentlemen... the definition of being a "winner".

So we should close the thread now right?

Or maybe we should actually go by results instead of some contrived made up statement that you quality as "winning"...lol

it's really not my concern that you have a child's understanding of teamwork.

was iverson a winner? no

was dominque a winner? no

see the trend here?

3 guys who never got the memo that the best possible shot wasn't always theirs.

Kinkotheclown
01-08-2014, 09:05 PM
I am going to throw a wild idea out there.

Cleveland. But only if Lebron is going to return there.
If the two of them went there, they could win a title and be beyond legends in that city. They would be immortals.

Now if Lebron doesn't happen, I would guess Chicago, L.A. or L.A

kenzo400
01-08-2014, 09:18 PM
Melo is not leaving NY since he cares most about location. It is the same thing with Deron Williams. Exactly why he resigned despite NJ being a ****** team at the time (and now)

Melo left Denver because he wanted to breathe properly.

nycericanguy
01-08-2014, 11:24 PM
it's really not my concern that you have a child's understanding of teamwork.

was iverson a winner? no

was dominque a winner? no

see the trend here?

3 guys who never got the memo that the best possible shot wasn't always theirs.

Iverson had like 6 or 7 losing seasons and only led a team to 50 wins ONCE... his winning % is nowhere near Melo's... that being said, he carried a team to the finals. I wouldn't exactly call him a loser.

And Nique? not even going to pretend to be old enough to have watched him in his prime... but i don't think many ppl regard him as a loser. And melo is much more efficient than Nique was.

Jamiecballer
01-08-2014, 11:31 PM
Iverson had like 6 or 7 losing seasons and only led a team to 50 wins ONCE... his winning % is nowhere near Melo's... that being said, he carried a team to the finals. I wouldn't exactly call him a loser.

And Nique? not even going to pretend to be old enough to have watched him in his prime... but i don't think many ppl regard him as a loser. And melo is much more efficient than Nique was.

that's cool. i don't mind disagreeing on this one.