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-Lavigne43-
01-01-2014, 02:11 PM
Red Sox top 20 as voted on by the forum:

1. SS, Xander Bogaerts
2. CF, Jackie Bradley Jr.
3. 3B, Garin Cecchini
4. LHP, Henry Owens
5. RHP, Allen Webster
6. RHP, Matt Barnes
7. RHP, Anthony Ranaudo
8. 2B, Mookie Betts
9. C, Blake Swihart
10. RHP, Brandon Workman
11. C, Christian Vazquez
12. LHP, Trey Ball
13. CF, Manuel Margot
14. RHP, Teddy Stankiewicz
15. LHP, Brian Johnson
16. LHP, Drake Britton
17. C, Jon Denney
18. SS, Deven Marrero
19. OF, Bryce Brentz
20. 3B, Rafael Devers

-Lavigne43-
01-02-2014, 02:44 AM
Sickels posted his list http://www.minorleagueball.com/2014/1/1/5264914/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2014


1) Xander Bogaerts, SS-3B, Grade A: A Grade A prospect who should do everything well except steal bases. Power should steadily increase. Not hype, he is for real.

2) Jackie Bradley, OF, Grade B+: Although I wouldn’t expect him to be a .300 type hitter, his broad secondary skills and impressive defense should make him a long-term regular.

3) Garin Cecchini, 3B, Grade B+: I won’t be talked out of the B+ grade like I was last year. Absolutely love this bat and superior on-base skills. Have to see where he fits defensively. I’ve gone back-and-forth with Bradley at 2 and this could flip depending on how I want to slot them in the Top 50, but I will worry about that next month.

4) Henry Owens, LHP, Grade B+: Walk rate in Double-A was the only negative here, but the overall package looks like a sound number three starter to me, perhaps more.

5) Anthony Ranaudo, RHP, Grade B: Borderline B+. I’d have him as a B+ if not for the history of health problems. When he’s right I think he has the best combination of stuff and command among the Bosox RHP prospect corps.

Click the link for the rest of the top 20

RedSoxtober
01-02-2014, 11:38 AM
^^ I love the summary.


Obviously this is a very deep system, with at least four B+ or better prospects. You have a future All-Star in Bogaerts, and at least four guys who can be major league regulars. There are high-ceiling tools players, and high floor skill players. There’s depth at all levels, with several prospects near the majors but plenty following at the lower levels. There are guys who can hit and guys who can field. There’s everything basically.

If you are looking for a flaw, there are no certain top-of-the-rotation starting pitchers, nobody who looks like a Grade A pitching prospect for certain. But you can say that about a lot of teams. Most organizations don’t have a future number one starter. That said, the Red Sox have more pitching depth than most systems, with at least four plausible mid-rotation arms and a bevy of bullpen possibilities. As with the hitters, there’s a good mixture of pitchers ready or almost ready for the majors, but plenty of depth behind them.

But the Yankees system is close because, you know, they have Betances and Banuelos.

MiamiBoy77
01-03-2014, 02:09 AM
I think the only thing were missing is a big corner OF/1B bat

-Lavigne43-
01-03-2014, 02:23 PM
@BenBadler 15m
Red Sox ended up with six prospects in my Top 50, most of any team. Full list, 900+ reports in the Prospect Handbook: http://bit.ly/Jqrye6

todu82
01-03-2014, 03:33 PM
Looking forward to getting the Baseball America hand book in a month or 2. Great to read up on the prospects of the team. Oh and I agree we need a 1st baseman prospect in a big way on this team.

Towelie
01-03-2014, 04:13 PM
So, I imagine we have the best system in the league right now.

AI
01-03-2014, 07:15 PM
So, I imagine we have the best system in the league right now.

Cubs, Astros and Twins might have better farms currently. We're certainly in that top tier though, and you could argue that we have the deepest farm in all of baseball.

RedSoxtober
01-04-2014, 10:50 AM
^^ Yes, it's a subjective science. B-A ranked the Sox #1 in terms of "closest to MLB talent." I believe that the top 5 can vary a bit depending on whether you prefer to rank based on ceiling, readiness, and accomplishment.

win red sox
01-06-2014, 12:12 PM
www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22508
SS Xander Bogaerts
CF Jackie Bradley, Jr.
3B Garin Cecchini
RHP Matt Barnes
LHP Henry Owens
RHP Allen Webster
C Blake Swihart
2B Mookie Betts
C Christian Vazquez
LHP Trey Ball

Interesting no Ranaudo

GrkGawdofWalkz
01-06-2014, 12:53 PM
www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22508
SS Xander Bogaerts
CF Jackie Bradley, Jr.
3B Garin Cecchini
RHP Matt Barnes
LHP Henry Owens
RHP Allen Webster
C Blake Swihart
2B Mookie Betts
C Christian Vazquez
LHP Trey Ball

Interesting no Ranaudo

I get the list. To me it makes sense. Ranaudo's best pitch is his curveball, which really is one that lacks control. His fastball doesn't have a lot of depth to it. He does have some disguise to his pitches due to his size, but he's trade value to me. Someone else might see something more.

GrkGawdofWalkz
01-06-2014, 12:58 PM
My list:

1. Xander Bogaerts
2. Garin Cecchini
3. Henry Owens
4. Jackie Bradley Jr.
5. Blake Swihart
6. Matt Barnes
7. Mookie Betts
8. Brandon Workman
9. Allen Webster
10. Trey Ball
-----------------------------
* Some lists still qualify Workman, other's do not. It depends on how you see it.

-Lavigne43-
01-07-2014, 08:57 PM
Top 20 is up on the first post.

Walligans
01-08-2014, 02:29 PM
Solid list. I think Ball belongs in the top 10, he's a 6'6'' 190 pound 19 year old who's already touching the mid-90's on his fastball with a smooth delivery. Tons of athleticism, two potential plus secondary pitches in his changeup and curve. He's a ways away, but there are very few strikes against him for a 19 year old pitcher.

I'd also move Devers up in to the top 15. Scouts are saying it's fair to compare his swing to Cano's. It looks like he's made a ton of progress on his swing and added 2'' and 15 lbs. just in the last year. If he hits next year, he could be a household name.

I'm not so high on Ranaudo. I think at most he's a back of the rotation starter who's lost a lot of development to injuries. His fastball isn't that great to build off of and his secondary pitches need a lot of work for a 24 year old.

bagwell368
01-08-2014, 05:39 PM
One question is will Webster be allowed to mature and become that #4/5 groundball guy that looks good in Fenway, or will it be decided he's better as a trade chip?

GeronimoSon
01-08-2014, 05:47 PM
So, I imagine we have the best system in the league right now.

Pirates will.. according to BA, anyway...

RedSoxtober
01-09-2014, 08:10 PM
Pirates will.. according to BA, anyway...

Depends on which list. They've ranked BOS #1 based on "closest to MLB" valuations. PIT may score higher on "ceiling" slanted valuations.

BostonSports96
01-12-2014, 04:27 PM
Who here has thought about the idea of Cecchini playing LF?

If WMB struggles this year, I can see him playing 3B at first. Eventually he'll probably have to move to LF though, and Gomes will be a FA after this season. Nava could be moved eventually or made a 4th OF if he drops off this year.

Nomar
01-12-2014, 05:26 PM
I hope Cecchini at least starts getting more 2B in Paw to start the year. He was a pure singles hitter for the last 2 months of the season. Fenway should be good to him though, giving him more 2B than TB taken away in the HR department.

GrkGawdofWalkz
01-13-2014, 12:05 PM
One question is will Webster be allowed to mature and become that #4/5 groundball guy that looks good in Fenway, or will it be decided he's better as a trade chip?

I think he has a lot of upside as a trade chip to a lower market team in need of a guy who they can plug in cheap and control. To me he'll have to really clean up his effort with his secondary stuff to make it as a 3-5 starter in Boston. I would almost see De La Rosa as a more likely short-term/long term fit in the back end of the rotation.

Walligans
01-14-2014, 01:30 AM
I think he has a lot of upside as a trade chip to a lower market team in need of a guy who they can plug in cheap and control. To me he'll have to really clean up his effort with his secondary stuff to make it as a 3-5 starter in Boston. I would almost see De La Rosa as a more likely short-term/long term fit in the back end of the rotation.

Webster has tremendous secondary stuff, more so than any of our other pitching prospects. He has the best pure "stuff" in our system, he just needs to refine his control and his command.

Walligans
01-14-2014, 02:36 PM
The top 3 for me are:

1. Bogaerts
2. Bradley
3. Cecchini

After that, it gets a lot cloudier so I'll give explanations for my next three:

4. Barnes. Among our pitching prospects, I think he needs to make the fewest adjustments to become a successful major league pitcher. Plus fastball with good velocity and tailing movement, has a potential plus curve that has great movement but at times he doesn't quite know where it's going and it can flatten out. Has a changeup which supposedly grades as solid-average but I've never seen him throw it. I think his delivery will be difficult to pick up and I love the way he consistently locates his fastball on the bottom corners of the strike zone.

5. Webster. Highest upside in our system, scouts and major league hitters alike rave about his stuff. Plus-plus fastball, plus changeup, potential above average slider, show-me curve. But there are some serious concerns about his lack of control and command. And some scouts have said they have concerns about his mental makeup.

6. Owens. Also a high upside arm, but has a lot of developing to do if he's going to pitch in the major leagues. Could stand to add a little weight on his lean frame, needs to refine his delivery, steps too far towards first which shortens his stride. Also needs to do some serious work on his control. Very good changeup, but I don't think his current curve will play at the major league level. It's more of a beginner's curve that catches hitters by surprise in the lower levels but will probably get hit pretty hard in the majors. And some scouts have said that you can visibly see the change in the grip out of his hand.

Then I'd probably go:

7. Swihart
8. Betts
9. Ranaudo
10. Ball

And then it gets real murky from 11-20. I'll have to think some more on those rankings.

RedSoxtober
01-17-2014, 01:42 PM
Who here has thought about the idea of Cecchini playing LF?

If WMB struggles this year, I can see him playing 3B at first. Eventually he'll probably have to move to LF though, and Gomes will be a FA after this season. Nava could be moved eventually or made a 4th OF if he drops off this year.

I can see him getting time in the OF corners to increase his versatility. I think the Sox could better sustain his power if he were at 3B than a corner OF spot, though.

-Lavigne43-
01-17-2014, 06:28 PM
MLB.com is doing top tens at every position leading up to their top 100 list. Since Callis works there now and has influence it's worth posting the Red Sox players on the lists. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=ss

SS
1. Xander Bogaerts

LHP

2. Henry Owens
9. Trey Ball

RHP
none

C
5. Blake Swihart

1B
8. Travis Shaw

The link goes to the SS's but click on the top bar and you can get to the other lists. There are write ups and tools grades at the link

Shaw on the 1b list is weird, but I guess 1b is very weak in the entire minors right now. Owens #2 on the lefties list and Ball #9 surprises me, but I really don't know the minor leagues outside the Red Sox that well.

-Lavigne43-
01-17-2014, 06:34 PM
@jimcallisMLB 40m
Mookie Betts. @RedSox @danawormald: Hey @jimcallisMLB: Best offensive second baseman in minors is ...?

dynasty7961
01-19-2014, 09:21 AM
Article of what teammates think of Henry Owens

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20140117-teammate-on-henry-owens-i-think-he-s-the-next-kershaw.ece

Walligans
01-20-2014, 11:30 AM
Interesting comments about Betts. I would think one of Wong, Odor, Schoop or Rosario would be rated higher offensively.

Kind of humorous that Shaw is a "top" first base prospect. First base really isn't a position that a lot of prospects play, it's more a position that they get moved to if their defense is really bad at every other position.

RedSoxtober
01-20-2014, 01:36 PM
The link goes to the SS's but click on the top bar and you can get to the other lists. There are write ups and tools grades at the link

Shaw on the 1b list is weird, but I guess 1b is very weak in the entire minors right now. Owens #2 on the lefties list and Ball #9 surprises me, but I really don't know the minor leagues outside the Red Sox that well.

Completely agree about Shaw. He did finish really well in the AFL so maybe it's a bit of "what have you done for me lately?"

Station 13
01-21-2014, 01:35 AM
Even once Bogaerts and Bradley graduated, the system is still strong.

1. Cecchini
2. Betts
3. Swihart
4. Owens
5. Webster
6. Ranaudo
7. Barnes
8. Ball
9. Vazquez
10. Brentz

-Lavigne43-
01-21-2014, 02:01 PM
2b

3. Mookie Betts

Jim Callis ‏@jimcallisMLB Jan 20
Further away. Personally rate Betts No. 1. List collaborative. @RedSoxFannnn: Seeing those 2B grades how is Betts not ranked #1? @RedSox


3b

6. Cechhini

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=ss

-Lavigne43-
01-22-2014, 01:59 PM
OF

6. Jackie Bradley jr

So we had someone in each positional list except RHP, which is obviously the most crowded list. Top 100 is scheduled to come out tomorrow.

-Lavigne43-
01-24-2014, 12:06 AM
MLB top 100 http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/

2. Xander Bogaerts
30. Henry Owens
33. Jackie Bradley Jr
46. Allen Webster
57. Garin Cecchini
61. Blake Swihart
62. Mookie Betts
86. Matt Barnes
96. Trey Ball

Disagree with the order. I don't know enough about other systems to know where they should be ranked in the top 100, but Webster seems too high, Cechhini too low.

Walligans
01-24-2014, 12:25 AM
MLB top 100 http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/

2. Xander Bogaerts
30. Henry Owens
33. Jackie Bradley Jr
46. Allen Webster
57. Garin Cecchini
61. Blake Swihart
62. Mookie Betts
86. Matt Barnes
96. Trey Ball

Disagree with the order. I don't know enough about other systems to know where they should be ranked in the top 100, but Webster seems too high, Cechhini too low.

I think Owens, Swihart and Betts were ranked too high and Barnes was ranked too low.

RedSoxtober
01-26-2014, 05:04 PM
I've heard it said that Owens was more well regarded outside the Sox system than within (unusual for any prospect) but seeing him at #30 is pretty surprising.

SirHizz
01-26-2014, 07:08 PM
The order is not exactly how I would have done it, but actually all 9 guys deserve to be there. Ball alone by his raw talent says enough about his potential.
I think you could have also made a case for Ranaudo. Seems like he's one of the most polarizing prospects on the farm.
But our farm is definitely very strong. I think a trade is basically inevitable in the near future, some of them gotta go.

I love Owens as much as every other prospect-fan, maybe even more. Lefties with his upside can never be dismissed, but if other scouts think even more highly of him than we do, we should see what the market says. I guess if he performs even better or as steady as last year, he could be the/a centerpiece for someone like Stanton. We'll need a big bat soon...
Especially if Lester gets extended for 5-6 years that could make Owens somewhat expendable

-Lavigne43-
01-27-2014, 01:57 AM
I thought it was the opposite with Owens. I remember Speier saying he could be the most untradable player in the system due to a combination of the Red Sox loving him and other teams unsure about him. Maybe you confused him with Webster, I remember someone saying that about him. 30 definitely seems very high on him though, especially when he has shown a big flaw with his command so far. I bet that's the highest he will be on any list. The BP list comes out tomorrow and he will probably be on the back of the list. The head guy there is much lower on him than anyone else.

Ranaudo just doesn't seem to have a high ceiling, and he has a significant injury history. Maybe everyone underrates/values his command and he becomes a solid starting pitcher.

gcoll
01-27-2014, 11:49 AM
Baseball Prospectus list.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22670

2. Xander Bogaerts
23. Jackie Bradley Jr.
51. Garin Cecchini
64. Matt Barnes
69. Henry Owens
73. Blake Swihart

-Lavigne43-
01-27-2014, 02:11 PM
I don't see how you don't have Mookie on your list. I understand putting him low on the list because it is one season, but if he repeats does he go from unranked to top 20? There are 6 2b on the list, he's better than Schoop.

Sweet_Caroline
01-27-2014, 04:27 PM
Baseball Prospectus' prospect evals have never really set right with me. I'm not sure why. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but they seem to give off a vibe that they like to be different.

-Lavigne43-
01-27-2014, 06:08 PM
BP's different since Goldstein left. I never liked Goldstein's list. Parks has not done enough for me to have any opinion on him, that will be decided by how accurate his list is.

To show how much influence Mayo has over the MLB list, Mason Williams was ranked #75 but was not on Callis' personal top 100. Shame that his work is now watered down because of Mayo. I liked BA's lists the most when Callis was the lead guy there, now I don't know.

-Lavigne43-
01-29-2014, 11:56 AM
Keith Law top 100

2. Xander Bogaerts
42. Henry Owens
51. Jackie Bradley Jr
53. Garin Cecchini
56. Blake Swihart
61. Mookie Betts
89. Matt Barnes

http://t.co/U47hfBMT3K

AI
01-29-2014, 01:44 PM
Some Law quotes...


"Downside is a Bill Mueller-type of career, but I see Cecchini hitting for higher AVG & OBPs while providing comparable defense"

On Betts...


"Could be an All-Star at second, maybe close to that at short, and despite his short stature there's still upside here"

On Barnes...


"Guys who miss bats with fastball strikes like this are pretty uncommon, so I could be easily selling him short,"

On the Red Sox farm system...


"They rival Houston for the best top 10 of any team."

Nomar
01-29-2014, 02:03 PM
Still think Barnes will end up being the best out of all our arms aside from Ball who it's too early to say much for.

-Lavigne43-
01-29-2014, 02:57 PM
I don't see how GC is only #53 if Law thinks his downside is Mueller, Mueller was a good player. He says he thinks he will put up a better OBP than Mueller? That's around a .400 OBP. If you think that highly of him how the hell is he not at least top 30?

I need to see more from Barnes. Better secondary stuff, a new pitch, some improvement. Right now he seems like a reliever or end of the rotation guy to me. I didn't follow prospects anywhere near as much back then so I could be way off, but he kind of reminds me of Papelbon as a prospect.

Sweet_Caroline
01-29-2014, 02:58 PM
Also from twitter someone asked Law if Workman would be ranked if he were eligible and Law answered no. He projects Workman as a reliever.

Out of all of the top 100 lists I think I like Law's the most in regards to the Red Sox. BP not having Mookie was strange and it would be extremely difficult for me to rank Webster top 100 let alone top 50 like MLB.com did. If Webster would've just gotten hit around in the bigs that wouldn't have been a big deal but he seemed to struggle with command and the stuff just wasn't there.

MoVaughnsLunch
01-29-2014, 03:03 PM
I think we'll see big years from Barnes and Owens. With Webster, I think this is a make or break year for him, but I just don't see him putting it together. Would really like to see RDLR make that jump. I think he has a chance.

For position players, I think Betts will end up a great player but I expect him to plateau a bit this season. Ceccini I expect to really push and break through.

For a sleeper, I'll go ahead and throw the name Stankiewicz out there. Wouldn't be surprised to see him make some major strides this season.

AI
01-29-2014, 03:08 PM
Everything I'm reading on Devers has me hyped up...

"Sweetest swing I've ever seen from a 16 year old"

"Bat speed of Robinson Cano"

"Plus plus power potential and legitimate bat"

:drool:

MiamiBoy77
01-30-2014, 11:34 AM
Everything I'm reading on Devers has me hyped up...

"Sweetest swing I've ever seen from a 16 year old"

"Bat speed of Robinson Cano"

"Plus plus power potential and legitimate bat"

:drool:

Could we see him here by 19? Also, I know he's a 3b but can he play 1b??

-Lavigne43-
01-30-2014, 02:09 PM
Who knows, he hasn't played a game. Hes gotten a lot of hype, but my rule of thumb is to not get excited about a prospect until they play well in Greenville.

Nomar
01-30-2014, 02:58 PM
Could we see him here by 19? Also, I know he's a 3b but can he play 1b??

Doubt he's here until 21 or 22. And like Lav said let's hold off on the hype until he shows some results in Greenville. And he'll be able to play LF or 1B if 3B doesn't work out.

RedSoxtober
02-01-2014, 12:04 AM
Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that Ryan Lavarnway will work at first base in addition to catching during spring training.

The more versatility that the 26-year-old can display during spring training, the better his chances will be of cracking the Opening Day roster. He has intriguing offensive potential, especially with the catcher eligibility, but holds little value in mixed leagues without consistent at-bats.roto

I know a lot of people are down on his bat but I think a switch to 1B could help a lot. His power dropped dramatically as his workload behind the plate ramped up.

grandsalami
02-03-2014, 05:27 PM
BA says we have #2 farm system

RedSoxtober
02-05-2014, 10:12 AM
Che-Hsuan Lin is converting to a pitcher.

Lin made two relief appearances for the Astros' Triple-A affiliate last season, but otherwise he has only played the outfield in pro ball. The 25-year-old signed a minor league deal with the Rangers last month and will make his move to the mound a priority in 2014.


Red Sox sent RHP Brayan Villarreal outright to Triple-A Pawtucket.

Villarreal had been designated for assignment in order to make room on the roster for Grady Sizemore. The 26-year-old will be in big league camp in spring training but is likely to start the season at Triple-A.

roto

Nomar
02-11-2014, 04:59 PM
Food for thought:

Say Mookie or Rijo end up being studs, do you see us trading Pedroia or attempting to? How tradable would he be in ~3 years?

Personally i think trading him could end up being very beneficial if one of these two specs is the real deal. Pedroia is a great player but his bat may already be fading and he will undoubtedly break down physically. His contract is team friendly and if Betts hits his ceiling (clearly this is hypothetical), we will have a replacement that is probably close to as good as Pedroia would be in 2017.

Do i want Pedroia here as a lifer? It would be cool. But business-wise it could be best to trade him eventually.

RedSoxtober
02-13-2014, 11:01 AM
Thus far the Sox have caved to every public demand that Ortiz has made in large part because of the potential publicity fallout. I can't see them seriously considering trading Pedroia for precisely that reason. I'll reserve judgment on his offensive regression until after the 2014 season. I'm willing to cut him some slack given the injury that he played through last year.

Even if Mookie and/or Rijo hit their ceiling, I'm not sure that Pedroia would have to go. I won't be surprised if they find a way to manage around it, even if it means making one of them an unconventional DH or overqualified UTL.

bagwell368
02-17-2014, 05:00 PM
My fear on Pedroia is regression due to injury first followed by age/physical decline (due in much part to repeated injuries).

I don't think he'll get to the point on his current deal where he's like Jeter was last year and expected to be this year, but, Pedey would have to be at that point before Sox fans would understand him being dealt. I'm pretty sure his last few years won't be very productive, but we'll have to wait it out.

grandsalami
02-18-2014, 02:44 AM
Food for thought:

Say Mookie or Rijo end up being studs, do you see us trading Pedroia or attempting to? How tradable would he be in ~3 years?

Personally i think trading him could end up being very beneficial if one of these two specs is the real deal. Pedroia is a great player but his bat may already be fading and he will undoubtedly break down physically. His contract is team friendly and if Betts hits his ceiling (clearly this is hypothetical), we will have a replacement that is probably close to as good as Pedroia would be in 2017.

Do i want Pedroia here as a lifer? It would be cool. But business-wise it could be best to trade him eventually.

Once Ortiz retires Pedroia would be the face of the sox. I doubt he will be traded anytime soon

B'sCeltsPatsSox
02-19-2014, 11:10 PM
BA 100: http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/2014-baseball-america-top-100-prospects-free/
2. Bogaerts
40. Owens
50. JBJ
73. Swihart
74. Cecchini
75. Betts
88. Webster
89. Ball

Station 13
02-20-2014, 11:50 AM
Why is Tanaka/Abreu on that list? BA needs to rewrite their qualification parameters.

Nice to see the Red Sox with a whopping 8 guys there. If half of them become regulars the Sox hit the jackpot.

AI
02-20-2014, 01:00 PM
Why is Tanaka/Abreu on that list? BA needs to rewrite their qualification parameters.

Nice to see the Red Sox with a whopping 8 guys there. If half of them become regulars the Sox hit the jackpot.

Plus Barnes and Ranaudo who would both make that list next year with good seasons this year.

-Lavigne43-
02-20-2014, 01:38 PM
Barnes should be on the list this year. I don't like their Red Sox rankings, worst top 100 so far.

Nomar
02-20-2014, 02:22 PM
Barnes is so slept on even in when he is in top 100s. It's a tough call between he and Owens for me. My top 5 for us right now is probably Bogaerts, Owens, Barnes, JBJ, Cecchini. I know that puts me in an extreme minority, but it is what it is.

ERA betrayed Barnes this season. He has to work on his offspeed pitches for sure, but he still can work on those and his swing and miss ability with his fastball is pretty crazy. If someone really thinks his offspeed pitches are so lacking, then the fact that his FB is getting so many empty swings is even more impressive. And I've always loved how he has that Verlander-esque ability to dial up velocity and keep it late into his outings. People are going to regret keeping him so low on their lists once he's in the majors.

Station 13
02-20-2014, 07:32 PM
I'm a huge Barnes fan too. 11K/9 is helluva peripheral. That's Stuff!

-Lavigne43-
02-23-2014, 04:25 PM
@alexspeier 21m
Mookie Betts is working out at SS with Red Sox infield coordinator Andy Fox pic.twitter.com/tzLcZIqTDJ

Nomar
02-23-2014, 10:20 PM
@alexspeier 21m
Mookie Betts is working out at SS with Red Sox infield coordinator Andy Fox pic.twitter.com/tzLcZIqTDJ

Imagine if he can stick there!

He and Swihart are the guys I watch closest this year (Margot and Cecchini's power also high on my list) in term of positional prospects. If Mookie is a solid SS or if Swihart shows power like Betts did last year, they can be top 15 specs.

RedSoxtober
02-24-2014, 05:36 PM
Why is Tanaka/Abreu on that list? BA needs to rewrite their qualification parameters.

Nice to see the Red Sox with a whopping 8 guys there. If half of them become regulars the Sox hit the jackpot.
For the same reason that they're eligible for ROY.

Nomar
02-25-2014, 02:07 PM
Fangraphs top 10 is up... they have Denney at 11 which is the highest he's been by far.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2014-top-10-prospects-boston-red-sox/

Pedroia
02-25-2014, 02:57 PM
I just (finally) moved to the Boston area so I'm less than an hour from Pawtucket and my father in law lives in Portland. I can not wait to get to see our prospects in action!

bagwell368
03-06-2014, 07:41 AM
I just (finally) moved to the Boston area so I'm less than an hour from Pawtucket and my father in law lives in Portland. I can not wait to get to see our prospects in action!

Don't miss Lowell (don't miss the brewery bar nearby, a favorite haunt for darts, pool, and some decent brews) to see some of the single A short season kids. Great park, good experience, cheap.

Portland is IMO has the best kids to see (and a very nice park, and a great small city (go to Cape Elizabeth and go to the Good Table for a meal (brunch, lunch, dinner) what a place), although this year Pawtucket will be loaded with some young pitchers.

Pedroia
03-06-2014, 08:08 AM
Don't miss Lowell (don't miss the brewery bar nearby, a favorite haunt for darts, pool, and some decent brews) to see some of the single A short season kids. Great park, good experience, cheap.

Portland is IMO has the best kids to see (and a very nice park, and a great small city (go to Cape Elizabeth and go to the Good Table for a meal (brunch, lunch, dinner) what a place), although this year Pawtucket will be loaded with some young pitchers.

Thanks, Bags. I forgot all about the Spinners!

RedSoxtober
03-06-2014, 07:42 PM
Don't miss Lowell (don't miss the brewery bar nearby, a favorite haunt for darts, pool, and some decent brews) to see some of the single A short season kids. Great park, good experience, cheap.

Portland is IMO has the best kids to see (and a very nice park, and a great small city (go to Cape Elizabeth and go to the Good Table for a meal (brunch, lunch, dinner) what a place), although this year Pawtucket will be loaded with some young pitchers.

Syntax error, mismatched parenthesis

a4anthony
03-16-2014, 02:15 AM
Guys I live in Greenville, who are some names I should be on the look out for?

win red sox
03-16-2014, 11:57 AM
Guys I live in Greenville, who are some names I should be on the look out for?

manuel margot, teddy stankiewicz, trey ball

RedSoxtober
03-16-2014, 07:05 PM
Guys I live in Greenville, who are some names I should be on the look out for?
Welcome. We probably live around the corner from one another (also in Greer).


manuel margot, teddy stankiewicz, trey ball
Actually the whole projected starting rotation were top picks the last few years. Not sure how many will pan out. 50-50 chance that Stankiewicz moves on fairly quickly given his experience beyond HS.

The position players are very meh beyond Margot. Probably the other biggest name is their international signing Tzu-Wei Lin at SS. Very weak bats this year.

a4anthony
03-16-2014, 09:36 PM
Guys I live in Greenville, who are some names I should be on the look out for?
Welcome. We probably live around the corner from one another (also in Greer).


manuel margot, teddy stankiewicz, trey ball
Actually the whole projected starting rotation were top picks the last few years. Not sure how many will pan out. 50-50 chance that Stankiewicz moves on fairly quickly given his experience beyond HS.

The position players are very meh beyond Margot. Probably the other biggest name is their international signing Tzu-Wei Lin at SS. Very weak bats this year.

Awesome, I live in between Riverside High school and GSP airport, so its possible depending if you live on this side of wade hampton.

And is it just me or do the sox never send the big name specs this way?

-Lavigne43-
03-17-2014, 12:25 AM
Greenville gets pretty much every prospect that goes through the system. College hitters are the only ones that the Red Sox sometimes jump from Lowell to Salem, college pitchers we are pretty conservative with. Last year was the least interesting Greenville team I can remember. It's because 2012 was a very weak draft where we picked a ton of pitchers. This year Salem's projected roster is a joke. We really need some of the international position players to breakout and become legit prospects, otherwise the major league team will get no position player help in a couple years from the upper minors.

We really need to pick some good position players in the next draft, the last two have been too pitching heavy. Hopefully Drew signs with the Tigers and gets us that 3rd pick in the top 32ish.

-Lavigne43-
03-17-2014, 12:34 AM
Seriously, this Salem projected lineup

C Carson Blair
1B David Chester
2B Reed Gragnani
3B Mario Martinez
SS Jose Vinicio
LF Drew Turocy
CF Matty Johnson
RF Aneury Tavarez
DH Stefan Welch

That has to be the worst crop of position players on one of our minor league teams in the last decade.

Nomar
03-17-2014, 09:15 PM
Seriously, this Salem projected lineup

C Carson Blair
1B David Chester
2B Reed Gragnani
3B Mario Martinez
SS Jose Vinicio
LF Drew Turocy
CF Matty Johnson
RF Aneury Tavarez
DH Stefan Welch

That has to be the worst crop of position players on one of our minor league teams in the last decade.

I'll check the lines just to get disappointed by Vinicio

-Lavigne43-
03-18-2014, 11:38 AM
Vinicio still looks like a little leaguer.

Also MLB.com released their Red Sox top 20. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=bos
I believe Margot and Devers are much higher than any other list

BoSox47
03-18-2014, 02:09 PM
Greenville gets pretty much every prospect that goes through the system. College hitters are the only ones that the Red Sox sometimes jump from Lowell to Salem, college pitchers we are pretty conservative with. Last year was the least interesting Greenville team I can remember. It's because 2012 was a very weak draft where we picked a ton of pitchers. This year Salem's projected roster is a joke. We really need some of the international position players to breakout and become legit prospects, otherwise the major league team will get no position player help in a couple years from the upper minors.

We really need to pick some good position players in the next draft, the last two have been too pitching heavy. Hopefully Drew signs with the Tigers and gets us that 3rd pick in the top 32ish.

Pretty sure it would be number 35 as it stands right now unless morales is picked up before Drew. In that case we would slide down to 36. Pretty sure thats how it is playing out could be wrong though.

But regardless 3 picks in the top 35 or 40 sounds great to me.

RedSoxtober
03-18-2014, 02:16 PM
Awesome, I live in between Riverside High school and GSP airport, so its possible depending if you live on this side of wade hampton.

And is it just me or do the sox never send the big name specs this way?
Yep, we're close. I live a couple miles further from the airport (Devenger & Boiling Springs) and my son is playing for Riverside soccer (yeah, I'm an old dude)

Greenville, as -Lav- mentions, has had it's share of big names. I remember meeting Clay during the opening weekend of Flour Field. Lester and Matsuzaka were here on rehabs. Casey Kelly made his big splash here as a pitcher and then came back a the end of the season to DH (in his ridiculous attempt at being a SS). From the 2014 ST invite list: Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, Cecchini, Lavarnway, Vazquez, Workman, Butler, Barnes, Owens, Noe Ramirez, Swihart, Heiker Meneses, Travis Shaw, and Britton all spent time here.

The challenge is that when the Sox sit at the end of the draft rounds, they tend to get less celebrated guys whose value is enhanced while they're here rather than ones who walk in with tons of hype.


Seriously, this Salem projected lineup

C Carson Blair
1B David Chester
2B Reed Gragnani
3B Mario Martinez
SS Jose Vinicio
LF Drew Turocy
CF Matty Johnson
RF Aneury Tavarez
DH Stefan Welch

That has to be the worst crop of position players on one of our minor league teams in the last decade.
Very glad to pass off that group of MIA imitators. Sheesh.

a4anthony
03-18-2014, 07:27 PM
Awesome, I live in between Riverside High school and GSP airport, so its possible depending if you live on this side of wade hampton.

And is it just me or do the sox never send the big name specs this way?
Yep, we're close. I live a couple miles further from the airport (Devenger & Boiling Springs) and my son is playing for Riverside soccer (yeah, I'm an old dude)

Greenville, as -Lav- mentions, has had it's share of big names. I remember meeting Clay during the opening weekend of Flour Field. Lester and Matsuzaka were here on rehabs. Casey Kelly made his big splash here as a pitcher and then came back a the end of the season to DH (in his ridiculous attempt at being a SS). From the 2014 ST invite list: Bogaerts, Middlebrooks, Cecchini, Lavarnway, Vazquez, Workman, Butler, Barnes, Owens, Noe Ramirez, Swihart, Heiker Meneses, Travis Shaw, and Britton all spent time here.

The challenge is that when the Sox sit at the end of the draft rounds, they tend to get less celebrated guys whose value is enhanced while they're here rather than ones who walk in with tons of hype.


Seriously, this Salem projected lineup

C Carson Blair
1B David Chester
2B Reed Gragnani
3B Mario Martinez
SS Jose Vinicio
LF Drew Turocy
CF Matty Johnson
RF Aneury Tavarez
DH Stefan Welch

That has to be the worst crop of position players on one of our minor league teams in the last decade.
Very glad to pass off that group of MIA imitators. Sheesh.

If your son has ever played some pick up soccer games I have probably played with him, we normally play at the Pavilion and Riverside Middle. I graduated from Riverside in 2010.

And how much are ticks to the Drive? And hows the parking? I've lived here for years just never got around to going. Probably will start going this year since I no longer have to work in the afternoons.

RedSoxtober
03-20-2014, 11:05 AM
Guys I live in Greenville, who are some names I should be on the look out for?


Awesome, I live in between Riverside High school and GSP airport, so its possible depending if you live on this side of wade hampton.

And is it just me or do the sox never send the big name specs this way?


If your son has ever played some pick up soccer games I have probably played with him, we normally play at the Pavilion and Riverside Middle. I graduated from Riverside in 2010.

And how much are ticks to the Drive? And hows the parking? I've lived here for years just never got around to going. Probably will start going this year since I no longer have to work in the afternoons.

He's only 15 and has played mostly club soccer; played with Furman United's 98 boys challenge teams that has twice been knocked out of the challenge league semi-finals by the three-time defending champ CESA 98 Premier. This year they wiped out SCU-FC's 98 Elite team 5-0 in the consolation match.

Drive games are great. Tix are cheap ($5-9). The $5 seats are mostly bleachers and hillside (grassy slope in LF). It's worth paying an extra buck or two to get a real seat. If you're going to a game that starts before sundown, sit on the 3B side. The afternoon sun is brutal on the 1B side... but it's usually OK if you're between 1B and 3B.

Parking is pretty good. If you go early enough (an hour or so before game time) you can often find a free parking spot on one of the side streets off South Main with a 5 min walk to the park. If you're not inclined to search, there's a couple of paid lots within a block of the ticket office. I think I've paid $5 to park there. Of course, it's only 10-15 minutes to walk from the center of downtown so you can try your luck parking just about anywhere there, grabbing dinner, and then going to the game (or switch the last two and celebrate the rest of the night).

I love the field itself. It won "ballpark of the year" when it was finished. It's a smaller version of Fenway and they were even aware enough to turn the RF "grandstand" seats at an angle like Fenway. What I like most is that the field is sunken from street level with concessions on a ring around the infield seats. Even while getting refreshments you can still watch the game. Great layout.

a4anthony
03-20-2014, 08:45 PM
So say I go and get a ticket do I have to tell them where I prefer to sit or do they just sell per section and you get to chose your seat? And it actually sounds like they built the stadium similar to Sirrine, the current stadium of Greenville High and Furman old field, when it comes to being under street level.

RedSoxtober
03-21-2014, 09:06 AM
^^ All the tickets have assigned seats though anyone can sit on the hill in LF regardless of the ticket. Week day/night games tend to have more flexibility for moving around due to generally lower attendance. A lot of Friday night games, though, have fireworks after the game that are actually pretty good.

goshhhjosh
03-31-2014, 08:30 AM
Kolbrin Vitek has filed his retirement papers.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/03/28/former-red-sox-first-rounder-kolbrin-vitek-retires/

Oh well, the Red Sox picked up a lot of other talent in the 2010 draft.

Nomar
03-31-2014, 02:41 PM
Our drafting has been unimpressive since 2011

-Lavigne43-
03-31-2014, 06:29 PM
Well that's two years, and we know nothing about last years draft. Those two years also happened to be two very weak draft classes.

Station 13
03-31-2014, 06:47 PM
Our drafting has been unimpressive since 2011

Since 2007, most 1st rounders done nothing.

Nomar
03-31-2014, 10:23 PM
Well that's two years, and we know nothing about last years draft. Those two years also happened to be two very weak draft classes.

Marrero was bad I've always said that. Not saying that he won't be a player of value, but you can't convince me that he was the best pick at the time or even close to it.

-Lavigne43-
04-01-2014, 01:24 PM
Marrero was bad I've always said that. Not saying that he won't be a player of value, but you can't convince me that he was the best pick at the time or even close to it.

Who was clearly a better pick? Marrerro was projected to go well before our pick. Before the season he was firmly in the top ten. He dropped and we got him. People don't like the pick because they're obsessed with power hitting or pitching prospects with big velocity. They can't appreciate the value of a terrific defender at the most premium position, who could also be decent major league hitter. We were also spoiled by the draft the year before which had an amazing talent pool. The pick was similar to JBjr who also fell, people got angry when we picked him too.

No one else in the first round after Marrero has done anything. Marrero was a solid pick in a draft with horrible depth, he's going to have value whether on the team or in a trade. The players in this draft have also only played one full season anyways, it's way too early to declare winners and losers. The only real criticism right now is that we drafted pitchers way too heavily. Perhaps an overreaction from our terrible pitching depth in 2011.

-Lavigne43-
04-01-2014, 06:33 PM
Ball didn't make Greenville. That's disappointing, I was hoping he would follow the Owens/Kelly path. I hope we don't end up killing ourselves for passing on Meadows.

goshhhjosh
04-01-2014, 08:52 PM
Ball didn't make Greenville. That's disappointing, I was hoping he would follow the Owens/Kelly path. I hope we don't end up killing ourselves for passing on Meadows.

I really wanted Clint Frazier, but Cleveland had to go and **** that up.

I'm not down on Ball and I somewhat trust the scouts, but the Ball pick somewhat surprised me.

Station 13
04-01-2014, 09:38 PM
Barnes pitch in a spring training game last week. He's weeks away from AAA games.

Nomar
04-01-2014, 11:22 PM
Who was clearly a better pick? Marrerro was projected to go well before our pick. Before the season he was firmly in the top ten. He dropped and we got him. People don't like the pick because they're obsessed with power hitting or pitching prospects with big velocity. They can't appreciate the value of a terrific defender at the most premium position, who could also be decent major league hitter. We were also spoiled by the draft the year before which had an amazing talent pool. The pick was similar to JBjr who also fell, people got angry when we picked him too.

No one else in the first round after Marrero has done anything. Marrero was a solid pick in a draft with horrible depth, he's going to have value whether on the team or in a trade. The players in this draft have also only played one full season anyways, it's way too early to declare winners and losers. The only real criticism right now is that we drafted pitchers way too heavily. Perhaps an overreaction from our terrible pitching depth in 2011.

I know how highly Marrero was ranked, and I also know that he fell due to offensive concerns that ended up being true. He may have been the highest ranked on paper, but the best teams don't always go that route. Jose Berrios, Lance McCullers, Eddie Butler, Lewis Brinson/Joey Gallo (High risk obviously), and even Keon Barnum sound better to me now. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but my point is we were probably still too high on Marrero even considering the fact that he fell to us. The last few may be lottery tickets but I'd take them over Marrero if I had the choice right now.

RedSoxtober
04-02-2014, 01:30 PM
Ball didn't make Greenville. That's disappointing, I was hoping he would follow the Owens/Kelly path. I hope we don't end up killing ourselves for passing on Meadows.

Crap, now what am I supposed to do on April 12?

-Lavigne43-
04-02-2014, 01:45 PM
Most of the players you listed were picked after we picked 3 times. We have only seen one full season from this draft class, we still have no idea how good our picks can be. You say you'd rather have a lottery ticket, but it's not that huge of a stretch for him to become a decent hitting SS, who also happens to have one of the best gloves in MLB. That can be a 3 WAR player. We can't forget how low the bar is for offense at that position. It was a good pick at the time very similar to JBjr, no one expected JBjr to hit like he did, he was considered a low ceiling high floor player. JBjr's success probably influenced picking another great defense, premium position player whose offense fell off.

I don't remember the financial situation, but we probably could only take one of the guys you listed with the new system. Our problem with that draft is that our big bonus baby Ty Buttrey still hasn't made a full season team. We probably should have taken a high ceiling player instead of Light, perhaps they thought those players would last longer. The problem with this draft is too many college players and pitchers with low ceilings, not the player on the top. In such a weak draft we should have taken more HS players.

-Lavigne43-
04-02-2014, 01:57 PM
I really wanted Clint Frazier, but Cleveland had to go and **** that up.

I'm not down on Ball and I somewhat trust the scouts, but the Ball pick somewhat surprised me.

It was a surprise and considered a bit of a reach, everyone expected Meadows after Frazier and Moran were picked. I can't say I like picking the normal raw high upside HS pitcher 7th overall, that's very risky. Meadows tearing it up last season doesn't make it better, but it's way too early to call it a mistake. Just disappointing that he is not as advanced as Owens and Kelly were.


Crap, now what am I supposed to do on April 12?

Celebrate you don't live near Salem.

Greenville isn't too bad a follow. Callahan, Stank, Light, Smith, Kukuk, Rijo, Lin, Margot. I'll look at some box scores.

goshhhjosh
04-02-2014, 02:56 PM
It was a surprise and considered a bit of a reach, everyone expected Meadows after Frazier and Moran were picked. I can't say I like picking the normal raw high upside HS pitcher 7th overall, that's very risky. Meadows tearing it up last season doesn't make it better, but it's way too early to call it a mistake. Just disappointing that he is not as advanced as Owens and Kelly were.

Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying that Ball won't be a major leaguer or is a wasted pick, but how often do the Red Sox get the 7th overall pick? Granted, there are numerous tales of first rounders being busts, but it surprised me, that is all. I wonder how many AB's Ball gets this season? ;)

Also, I'm surprised Shaq Thompson didn't make the top 20 Red Sox prospects, what gives?

RedSoxtober
04-02-2014, 03:07 PM
Celebrate you don't live near Salem.

Greenville isn't too bad a follow. Callahan, Stank, Light, Smith, Kukuk, Rijo, Lin, Margot. I'll look at some box scores.

Truth. Suffered with that MIA-imitating team last year. Regrets to goshjosh on that front.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing this group. I had just projected Ball's date during their first homestand.

RaginRondo17
04-03-2014, 11:02 PM
Owens threw a no-hitter..6 innings though, game was shortened by rain. Struck out 9 and walked 2.

-Lavigne43-
04-03-2014, 11:22 PM
Portland when Owens pitches is the must look box score this year.

Mookie 4/4, 1 hr
Marrero 2/4, 2 2b
Swihart 2/3, 1 3b

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-04-2014, 10:23 AM
Good starts for Owens (6 no hit innings) and Mookie Betts. Nice debuts for Marrero and Lin. Good to see things going well. Excited to be going to Portland in the next few weeks.

Nomar
04-04-2014, 02:03 PM
Really awesome box there all around. Ramos also went 2-3 i believe.

Nomar
04-04-2014, 02:04 PM
And Buttrey not making Greenville is pretty damn bad.

Station 13
04-05-2014, 08:59 AM
Cecchini is in AAA? Didn't know that.

Betts with another huge game: 3/5 2B

-Lavigne43-
04-05-2014, 10:44 PM
‏@brianmacp 15m
Pat Light at Single-A Greenville tonight: 6 IP, 10 K, 0 BB.

Nice to see him not get destroyed.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-05-2014, 11:49 PM
Cecchini is in AAA? Didn't know that.

Betts with another huge game: 3/5 2B

If Betts keeps this up and Cecchini doesn't disappoint its going to be real interesting in what boston does.

Ccchini at 3B, XB in LF, and Betts at SS? or maybe Betts is a super-super utility for a couple seasons?

BoSox47
04-07-2014, 01:08 PM
Trey Ball is only 19. He has plenty of time to grow and learn. I think he was a reach but could be the best pitching prospect we have had in years downthe road.

-Lavigne43-
04-07-2014, 06:00 PM
Sure, but HS pitching prospects are the riskiest picks in the draft. If you are picking 7th you really should only take a HS pitcher if they are more advanced than the normal HS pitcher, like a Kohl Stewart. You don't want to pick a project at #7. I don't know how raw he is, but it's a bit disappointing he is not more advanced like Casey Kelly and Henry Owens were. It could look bad really quick if Meadows continues to crush the ball like he did last year.

RedSoxtober
04-07-2014, 06:09 PM
Trey Ball is only 19. He has plenty of time to grow and learn. I think he was a reach but could be the best pitching prospect we have had in years downthe road.

The #7 prospect in a draft should not be "a reach" at all. He should be VERY projectable.

IMO, there's reasonable disappointment in Ball's performance so far. By comparison, Owens was 1 month younger when he made his professional debut in Greenville straight out of spring training (he didn't pitch the summer after being drafted) and had an eye-popping 130K/101.2IP. There were still issues to work on (4.2BB/9 and 4.78ERA) but it was a strong debut. Ball had more hype but still has enough to work on that he's starting in Lowell after a few more months in FL. His "get your feet wet" time in the GCL was not much to get excited about (7IP, 10H, 7R, 5ER, 6BB). Hopefully it proves to be a case of trying to do too much to prove that he was worth the investment.

(I'm not writing the kid off by any means but only suggesting that disappointment over his progress so far is understandable).

win red sox
04-08-2014, 09:06 PM
solid start for Webster tonight 6.0 ip 3h 3k 2bb 10go 2fo and 0 runs

goshhhjosh
04-09-2014, 04:07 PM
Sure, but HS pitching prospects are the riskiest picks in the draft. If you are picking 7th you really should only take a HS pitcher if they are more advanced than the normal HS pitcher, like a Kohl Stewart. You don't want to pick a project at #7. I don't know how raw he is, but it's a bit disappointing he is not more advanced like Casey Kelly and Henry Owens were. It could look bad really quick if Meadows continues to crush the ball like he did last year.

Just looked at Meadows' stats last season...not bad at all. I agree with what you're saying. The kid may end up to be a decent pitcher, but I would (at present) feel better if the Red Sox went with more of a sure thing (if there is such a thing.)


The #7 prospect in a draft should not be "a reach" at all. He should be VERY projectable.

IMO, there's reasonable disappointment in Ball's performance so far. By comparison, Owens was 1 month younger when he made his professional debut in Greenville straight out of spring training (he didn't pitch the summer after being drafted) and had an eye-popping 130K/101.2IP. There were still issues to work on (4.2BB/9 and 4.78ERA) but it was a strong debut. Ball had more hype but still has enough to work on that he's starting in Lowell after a few more months in FL. His "get your feet wet" time in the GCL was not much to get excited about (7IP, 10H, 7R, 5ER, 6BB). Hopefully it proves to be a case of trying to do too much to prove that he was worth the investment.

(I'm not writing the kid off by any means but only suggesting that disappointment over his progress so far is understandable).

I guess the big thing with the Red Sox is that he's a tall, lanky, lefty with limited miles on his arm. However, like Lavs said, he's not as advanced as previous draft picks and with the 7th pick that kind of a reach leaves a few question marks.

I will admit though, the scouts and the organization know a whole hell of a lot more than I.

-Lavigne43-
04-09-2014, 11:10 PM
Margot with a 2 hr game, he only had 1 last year. Owens: 6.2 IP 6 H 0 R 9 K 0 BB
Mookie with only 2 hits today, average went down.

Nomar
04-09-2014, 11:39 PM
Margot with a 2 hr game, he only had 1 last year. Owens: 6.2 IP 6 H 0 R 9 K 0 BB
Mookie with only 2 hits today, average went down.

Gotta love to see Margot get it going early.

Owens is just the man. Scouts who see him as a 3 probably see his Ks dropping, but I'll believe it when i see it. Kid gets misses consistently.

Nomar
04-10-2014, 01:28 PM
Near completely irrelevant but...

Remember when the 2012 prospect thread was titled "Waiting for Godot"? We should make this years title "Waiting for Margot" seeing that this is his first year of full season ball making him one of this organization's prime breakout candidate.

/thought

-Lavigne43-
04-10-2014, 01:38 PM
Gotta love to see Margot get it going early.

Owens is just the man. Scouts who see him as a 3 probably see his Ks dropping, but I'll believe it when i see it. Kid gets misses consistently.

I think they are too quick to put a limit on a pitcher. Too much obsession with velocity as well. Owens is clearly unique and has something going on with his deception that makes hitters struggle so much against him, along with great secondary pitches. I see no reason why he can't be a top of the rotation pitcher like Jered Weaver, if he puts it all together and his command significantly improves.

-Lavigne43-
04-10-2014, 01:40 PM
If he threw 97 Owens no hit streak last year, and his 6 inning no hitter this year would have gotten Bundy attention.

-Lavigne43-
04-10-2014, 01:41 PM
I really wanted Clint Frazier, but Cleveland had to go and **** that up.

I'm not down on Ball and I somewhat trust the scouts, but the Ball pick somewhat surprised me.


Near completely irrelevant but...

Remember when the 2012 prospect thread was titled "Waiting for Godot"? We should make this years title "Waiting for Margot" seeing that this is his first year of full season ball making him one of this organization's prime breakout candidate.

/thought
lol, that's a great title.

Nomar
04-10-2014, 01:46 PM
I think they are too quick to put a limit on a pitcher. Too much obsession with velocity as well. Owens is clearly unique and has something going on with his deception that makes hitters struggle so much against him, along with great secondary pitches. I see no reason why he can't be a top of the rotation pitcher like Jered Weaver, if he puts it all together and his command significantly improves.

Also if he improves his control to the "next level" so to speak, who's to say he can't be a great pitcher. Look at Cliff Lee. He's sat 90-91 his whole career and he's one of the best although partially overlooked pitchers of this era.

I'm not saying Owens will keep his BB/9 as low as Lee, but he'll most likely strike more people out than Lee does. And obviously we cant expect him to be the next great lefty in baseball, but I'm saying every time I see someone put put a "ceiling" of a #3 on Owens, I get a bit frustrated. You're 100% right, pitchers do get judged far too much by their stature/power.

bagwell368
04-11-2014, 09:10 AM
Also if he improves his control to the "next level" so to speak, who's to say he can't be a great pitcher. Look at Cliff Lee. He's sat 90-91 his whole career and he's one of the best although partially overlooked pitchers of this era.

I'm not saying Owens will keep his BB/9 as low as Lee, but he'll most likely strike more people out than Lee does. And obviously we cant expect him to be the next great lefty in baseball, but I'm saying every time I see someone put put a "ceiling" of a #3 on Owens, I get a bit frustrated. You're 100% right, pitchers do get judged far too much by their stature/power.

It's natural to look at young P's that way. The size and velocity is front and center because it's easy to see, and there is a reasonable correlation between those things and long term success. However it does turn out to be about deception and repeatability - and velocity is but one part of that.

I remember those Indians teams from about 15 years ago. Every guy they had threw gas, and a lot of them had meh secondary stuff. You don't want that.

I think your frustration on the view of Owens will change soon. He might get his first ML start as early as July if there are two injuries/ineffectiveness. I have Workman as the next guy to get a shot, but I have Owens jumping Webster and everyone else after that if the debut time is late enough.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

Cecchini is at: .320/.393/.360 after 7 games. He's got to get at least another 50 games at AAA before he can be thought about to be brought up. This year in Majors he might hit: .285/.370/.330. If the D is worse then meh and his power remains at the gap level he's not that valuable unless WMB totally sucks or the Sox are out of it. Still, no matter what Sep 1st call-up at least.

Station 13
04-11-2014, 10:59 AM
Betts 2/4 3B

Couch 5.2IP 0ER 0B 5K

-Lavigne43-
04-11-2014, 12:32 PM
RDLR is dominating again


When Rubby De La Rosa opened the 2014 season with five dominating innings in which he yielded neither a run nor a walk, the Red Sox were thrilled, but with a caveat they wanted to see him do it again. On Thursday, he did just that. De La Rosa logged a strong 5 2/3 innings in which he once again attacked his opponents, allowing just one run while permitting two hits (both singles) and walking two while retiring the last 12 batters he faced. He punched out four. In two starts so far, the 25-year-old has allowed one run in 10 2/3 innings (0.84 ERA) while punching out nine and walking two. Hes given up just four hits, with opponents hitting .111 against him to date this season. And hes been an absolute groundball machine, with 14 of his 15 outs recorded by strikeout or groundball in his first outing and 15 of his 17 outs recorded by strikeout or groundball on Thursday.

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/04/11/red-sox-minor-league-roundup-rubby-de-la-rosa-dominating-feats-of-mookie-betts-jamie-callahan-strikes-out-everyone/

Mookie might be the #1 prospect in the system at the end of the year. Torrid start answering the people who questioned whether last year was a fluke.

-Lavigne43-
04-12-2014, 12:25 AM
Margot with another homer.

Station 13
04-12-2014, 12:57 AM
Are the Red Sox teaching their young pitchers splitters? Buccholz and Peavy have began using it.

Bo Sox Fan
04-15-2014, 06:27 PM
This idea is like a fart in the wind, but with no real corner outfielders blossoming in the system is it out of the question to start grooming Mookie Betts to play right field? He has above average speed which would make sense in Fenway and his bat is looking other worldy. He's not a big guy but neither is Victorino.

Thoughts?

-Lavigne43-
04-15-2014, 08:30 PM
I really wanted Clint Frazier, but Cleveland had to go and **** that up.

I'm not down on Ball and I somewhat trust the scouts, but the Ball pick somewhat surprised me.


Are the Red Sox teaching their young pitchers splitters? Buccholz and Peavy have began using it.

I don't think so. Clay has been throwing a split for years, I don't remember when/how he picked it up. Peavy learned it this offseason because he was inspired by Koji, I believe he said Koji helped him with it during ST too.


This idea is like a fart in the wind, but with no real corner outfielders blossoming in the system is it out of the question to start grooming Mookie Betts to play right field? He has above average speed which would make sense in Fenway and his bat is looking other worldy. He's not a big guy but neither is Victorino.

Thoughts?

There was speculation that he would play some CF and SS this year.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-16-2014, 12:58 AM
This idea is like a fart in the wind, but with no real corner outfielders blossoming in the system is it out of the question to start grooming Mookie Betts to play right field? He has above average speed which would make sense in Fenway and his bat is looking other worldy. He's not a big guy but neither is Victorino.

Thoughts?

can't imagine he'd have the arm for a full time job in RF.

SS/2B/CF would be his 3 primary positions if he ended up being a super utility type player I'd imagine. Could move XB to LF and slide mookie in at SS? I don't see XB being a career long SS.

RedSoxtober
04-16-2014, 09:40 AM
I don't like the idea of settling on Betts as a super UTL just because he's apparently blocked at the moment. Too many things could happen in the 2-3 years it will take to get him into MLB. I would rather see them push him into a position that he might hold long term. Personally I'd go towards LF given his arm strength (and with the idea that we put WMB/GC in a deal for Stanton).

If he HAS to be a super UTL, I sure hope that he's the next Ben Zobrist.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-16-2014, 04:44 PM
I don't like the idea of settling on Betts as a super UTL just because he's apparently blocked at the moment. Too many things could happen in the 2-3 years it will take to get him into MLB. I would rather see them push him into a position that he might hold long term. Personally I'd go towards LF given his arm strength (and with the idea that we put WMB/GC in a deal for Stanton).

If he HAS to be a super UTL, I sure hope that he's the next Ben Zobrist.

Right now Mookie projects as a solid middle infielder as far as defensively goes, Putting him in LF just seems to diminish his value.

Nomar
04-16-2014, 08:38 PM
My girlfriend's dad recently saw the Drive play. Big baseball head, knows the game well, really was impressed by Rijo's game overall. He went yard the other day too so I figured I'd give him a little hype. He and Margot can be quite the combo coming up together.

-Lavigne43-
04-17-2014, 01:41 AM
He opened eyes last year when he went nuts in the GCL and Lowell playoff run. He's a big signing bonus guy, definitely has the potential to be one of our big prospects down the line, most impressive guy from that signing year so far. We really need a bunch of these international position players to succeed given our lack of position player picks from the recent drafts. Lin was off to a good start too last time I checked, which is nice to see.

RedSoxtober
04-17-2014, 09:09 AM
Right now Mookie projects as a solid middle infielder as far as defensively goes, Putting him in LF just seems to diminish his value.

I don't believe that he's going to be that solid based on what I saw so I don't mind moving him. His value is undoubtedly lower as a corner OF but I don't think he has the arm for either of the other OF spots, the Sox have multiple options for the two spots on the left side of the IF, and Pedroia is locked up at 2B. That doesn't leave many options... unless you plan on cashing in on his prospect buzz.

Nomar
04-17-2014, 10:27 AM
I don't believe that he's going to be that solid based on what I saw so I don't mind moving him. His value is undoubtedly lower as a corner OF but I don't think he has the arm for either of the other OF spots, the Sox have multiple options for the two spots on the left side of the IF, and Pedroia is locked up at 2B. That doesn't leave many options... unless you plan on cashing in on his prospect buzz.

Pedroia has the potential to turn into a problem if his defense deteriorates (not saying it will) with his offense potentially already in decline. There's a chance in 4 years mookie is a better second basemen than Pedey.

If Mookie can handle SS then it makes more sense to move Bogaerts to the outfield, but I doubt Betts has the chops for SS.

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-19-2014, 07:11 AM
can't imagine he'd have the arm for a full time job in RF.

SS/2B/CF would be his 3 primary positions if he ended up being a super utility type player I'd imagine. Could move XB to LF and slide mookie in at SS? I don't see XB being a career long SS.

No. Bogaerts has the build and the ability to play the position and proved it on the biggest stage in the WS. Betts can easily be moved to the outfield given his athletism. I'm not sure about his arm from center, but otherwise there's no reason to not give him a look. Especially considering, how hard he's making his case at becoming the next elite Red Sox prospect. Cecchini continues to provide that he'll hit regardless of his fielding at 3B. Another guy in left field as an option. The minors are as much fun if not more fun than the struggling turgid April BoSox.

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-19-2014, 07:13 AM
I don't like the idea of settling on Betts as a super UTL just because he's apparently blocked at the moment. Too many things could happen in the 2-3 years it will take to get him into MLB. I would rather see them push him into a position that he might hold long term. Personally I'd go towards LF given his arm strength (and with the idea that we put WMB/GC in a deal for Stanton).

If he HAS to be a super UTL, I sure hope that he's the next Ben Zobrist.

I totally agree with you, I believe he'll be transfixed into a natural position eventually. We'll see what happens. Either way it's an awesome problem to have. Up the middle prospects are never a horrible option to have, whether in dealing with trading surplus, or for your own basket. He could easily headline a deal in the short coming for an everyday player. Whether that's this, next or the year after. He's starting to become a player that everyone should love. I'm glad Senquez Golson went to college. :)

Pittz
04-19-2014, 09:08 AM
No. Bogaerts has the build and the ability to play the position and proved it on the biggest stage in the WS. Betts can easily be moved to the outfield given his athletism. I'm not sure about his arm from center, but otherwise there's no reason to not give him a look. Especially considering, how hard he's making his case at becoming the next elite Red Sox prospect. Cecchini continues to provide that he'll hit regardless of his fielding at 3B. Another guy in left field as an option. The minors are as much fun if not more fun than the struggling turgid April BoSox.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Bogaerts proved he could play SS in the WS when he (primarily) played 3B?

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-19-2014, 11:31 AM
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but Bogaerts proved he could play SS in the WS when he (primarily) played 3B?

Wow, what a brain fart on my end. Good catch on that Pittz. LMAO...I still don't see Bogaerts being moved off the position unless he completely cannot handle it.

BoSox47
04-19-2014, 02:08 PM
We need to package a few of these guys for Stanton.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-19-2014, 03:07 PM
No. Bogaerts has the build and the ability to play the position and proved it on the biggest stage in the WS.

XB proved he could play SS at 20 years old. His frame at 20 and 25 will likely be much diff. He ALREADY has a similar build as the bigger ss's (Jeter/Tolu). What happens if he gains 15-20 pounds? not many 235 pound SS's in baseball.

Data is 4 years old but the average weight of a SS in 2010 was 174.5 Pounds, He's about 30 pounds bigger than the average already at age 20.

http://sportsologist.com/baseball-player-weight-by-position/

With all that said, Maybe he CAN stick at SS for the first 8-10 years, but I have my doubts.


Betts can easily be moved to the outfield given his athletism.

I'm not doubting he's capable of playing LF and playing it well. My issue? Does he have the bat to be much more than an average LF'er? Just kills his value.

He has a bat that projects as good-very good for a middle infielder but likely average at best at LF.



I'm not sure about his arm from center, but otherwise there's no reason to not give him a look. Especially considering, how hard he's making his case at becoming the next elite Red Sox prospect.

Unless a trade takes place JBJ is likely the CF'er for a while and a gold glove caliber CF'er at that.


Cecchini continues to provide that he'll hit regardless of his fielding at 3B. Another guy in left field as an option. The minors are as much fun if not more fun than the struggling turgid April BoSox.

I don't think GC will ever be good with the glove, but he deff has an arm for 3rd base. He may not ever be average but I don't think he'll be god awful either.

I think he's a better prospect that what BAA ranked him (#74). Scouts STLL seem to under value some of the tools GC has as his hit tool, Discipline and overall approach should translate to a productive mlb payer.

His overall offensive game compares well to bill Mueller.

win red sox
04-19-2014, 10:01 PM
Betts has a typical day at the office 4/5 with a hr. average up to .453

Nomar
04-20-2014, 10:41 AM
GC needs to hit for more power than he has since last year's all star break. Hopefully his first home run will get him going in that department.

The lowest ISO last year that belonged to a player walking above 11% of the time was .124 and it belong to Billy Butler, who has a power hitters reputation. Garin is barely hanging around .100. Gonna be tough for him to get on base as much as we expect if he's not a threat to drive the ball with any consistency.

66 games in AA isn't a lot obviously and I'm sure he has adjustments to make that will help him make hard contact with more consistency. I don't think he's screwed. I'm not even necessarily worried about him. I just don't see him being truly ready for the majors until late this year at the earliest.

Side note: The Zobrist-Mookie comp/hope has me drooling. Zobrist definitely is the better fielder though or at least i would think. Mookie has better range though.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-20-2014, 01:55 PM
GC needs to hit for more power than he has since last year's all star break. Hopefully his first home run will get him going in that department.

The lowest ISO last year that belonged to a player walking above 11% of the time was .124 and it belong to Billy Butler, who has a power hitters reputation. Garin is barely hanging around .100. Gonna be tough for him to get on base as much as we expect if he's not a threat to drive the ball with any consistency.

66 games in AA isn't a lot obviously and I'm sure he has adjustments to make that will help him make hard contact with more consistency. I don't think he's screwed. I'm not even necessarily worried about him. I just don't see him being truly ready for the majors until late this year at the earliest.

I think he'd be a 10 HR/30 2B type of player In his prime at fenway with a .370ish OBP.

As far as being ready, I agree with him being a sept call up.

RedSoxtober
04-21-2014, 10:08 AM
Side note: The Zobrist-Mookie comp/hope has me drooling. Zobrist definitely is the better fielder though or at least i would think. Mookie has better range though.

Just to be clear: I made that up as a hope for the kid. I think the flexibility Zobrist provides the Rays is a HUGE asset and that'd be what I want from Betts if he HAS to be a UTL. I don't think many guys have the mental ability to pull that off tho

Station 13
04-21-2014, 10:11 AM
Does Mookie have range to play SS? Bogaerts should be a 1B if he hits 30 bombs within 2 year, when Mookie is ready.

AI
04-21-2014, 11:37 AM
I've tried to not get too excited about Mookie as a "legit" prospect but he continues to rake.


Does Mookie have range to play SS? Bogaerts should be a 1B if he hits 30 bombs within 2 year, when Mookie is ready.

No.

Nomar
04-21-2014, 02:31 PM
Just to be clear: I made that up as a hope for the kid. I think the flexibility Zobrist provides the Rays is a HUGE asset and that'd be what I want from Betts if he HAS to be a UTL. I don't think many guys have the mental ability to pull that off tho

Obviously. Even Zob-Lite is a great asset

win red sox
04-21-2014, 05:43 PM
Does Mookie have range to play SS? Bogaerts should be a 1B if he hits 30 bombs within 2 year, when Mookie is ready.

Range would not be an issue, the arm strength is what's questionable. I would like to see him to take some reps in left field and potentially be the starting LF and assume the leadoff spot in 2015.

LF Betts
2b Pedroia
dh Ortiz
RF Stanton :)
1B Napoli
SS XB
3b Middlebrooks
C Swihart * promoted after tradeline
CF Bradley

Bogaerts is probably the best 3b in the org, so I doubt we see him at 1b anytime soon. Marrero is probably the best defensive SS in the org right now and is off to a nice start Portland. So I would imagine in 2016 Marrero is manning SS with Bogaerts at 3b.

-Lavigne43-
04-21-2014, 06:03 PM
I've tried to not get too excited about Mookie as a "legit" prospect but he continues to rake.
.

If he continues to do this at AA you should be excited. I said it during the offseason when everyone questioned whether what he did was a fluke, the guy had a flawless performance offensively. I can't remember seeing any prospect have such a perfect season. The K rate was low, the BB rate high, the babip wasn't super high, he hit for a lot of power, he even stole 38 bases. He's my #1 prospect in the system once Xander is no longer classified as a prospect. Last year was his first full season, levels below Greenville are meaningless to me. The guy is a stud.

win red sox
04-21-2014, 11:15 PM
Mookie with a so so night
2/5 1 2b 1 sb, sitting at 448//484/707

Wendall Rijo the 2b in Greenville finally appears healthy and should shoot up the rankings this year, sitting at 333/472/571 2hr

Station 13
04-22-2014, 10:44 AM
Don't ignore Swihart, he's off to a good start.

win red sox
04-22-2014, 03:43 PM
Don't ignore Swihart, he's off to a good start.

362/375/532 is 47 ab's so far, made huge strides each year. While people drool over Vasquez's arm, he will just be a placeholder for Swihart. I fully expect by the end of the year the Mookie and Swihart will be 1 and 2 in prospect's ranking.

Station 13
04-22-2014, 06:34 PM
362/375/532 is 47 ab's so far, made huge strides each year. While people drool over Vasquez's arm, he will just be a placeholder for Swihart. I fully expect by the end of the year the Mookie and Swihart will be 1 and 2 in prospect's ranking.

I would think Cecchini would be in somewhere between. And Owens is our top prospect.

Nomar
04-22-2014, 06:46 PM
Well if Swihart OPSes .900 yeah he'll be our top prospect for sure, but I don't see that happening. It's still too early to tell who will be our top prospect next year.

Station 13
04-22-2014, 07:08 PM
Well if Swihart OPSes .900 yeah he'll be our top prospect for sure, but I don't see that happening. It's still too early to tell who will be our top prospect next year.

I would 'betts' on Mookie though. What a stud.

win red sox
04-22-2014, 07:21 PM
I would think Cecchini would be in somewhere between. And Owens is our top prospect.

Cecchini will be a nice player, but I think Mookie and Swihart have the potential to be elite players. I'm not big on Owens as most people, but I hope I'm wrong.

Station 13
04-22-2014, 07:47 PM
Cecchini will be a nice player, but I think Mookie and Swihart have the potential to be elite players. I'm not big on Owens as most people, but I hope I'm wrong.

Betts sure, assuming he's Dustin Pedroia clone.

win red sox
04-22-2014, 08:28 PM
RDLR with another excellent start 6.0 ip 1 er 7 k 1 bb. On the season he's carrying a 1.19 era in 4 starts. I would assume he would be the first one called up.

Station 13
04-22-2014, 08:49 PM
RDLR with another excellent start 6.0 ip 1 er 7 k 1 bb. On the season he's carrying a 1.19 era in 4 starts. I would assume he would be the first one called up.

Looks like he's finally turning a corner. Excellent.

win red sox
04-22-2014, 09:35 PM
Betts 2/4 with 2 bb and 2 sb

Station 13
04-22-2014, 10:42 PM
Betts 2/4 with 2 bb and 2 sb

Call him up now.:worthy:

bagwell368
04-23-2014, 06:20 AM
Range would not be an issue, the arm strength is what's questionable. I would like to see him to take some reps in left field and potentially be the starting LF and assume the leadoff spot in 2015.

LF Betts
2b Pedroia
dh Ortiz
RF Stanton :)
1B Napoli
SS XB
3b Middlebrooks
C Swihart * promoted after tradeline
CF Bradley

Bogaerts is probably the best 3b in the org, so I doubt we see him at 1b anytime soon. Marrero is probably the best defensive SS in the org right now and is off to a nice start Portland. So I would imagine in 2016 Marrero is manning SS with Bogaerts at 3b.

So no GC and Vazquez?

Swihart is 50/50 to not be a Catcher (too small), and I doubt he starts over Vazquez in '15.

Why do you have Ortiz batting 3rd? Stanton or XB should be 3rd, Ortiz should drop with Napoli behind him.

WMB at 3B? Hmmm...

Betts can't probably make the throw from the hole - so forget SS. 2B, LF, DH, 1B, 3B seem to fit him the best if he makes it. After Ortiz is gone he might be at DH the most.

win red sox
04-23-2014, 10:13 AM
So no GC and Vazquez?

Swihart is 50/50 to not be a Catcher (too small), and I doubt he starts over Vazquez in '15.

Why do you have Ortiz batting 3rd? Stanton or XB should be 3rd, Ortiz should drop with Napoli behind him.

WMB at 3B? Hmmm...

Betts can't probably make the throw from the hole - so forget SS. 2B, LF, DH, 1B, 3B seem to fit him the best if he makes it. After Ortiz is gone he might be at DH the most.

If the Stanton trade happens at 2015 tradeline, WMB will 1/2 year from arb and I would assume that Miami would prefer more control and they would get more control with GC, also Vasquez is part of that trade.

Swihart is 6'1 somewhere around 180 with the frame to put on some more muscle, I don't buy into he's to small. Plus if anything the new hp collision rule would help him out.

I like the "best" hitter batting 3rd, and to boot he's LH. Now in 2015 if he's not the same hitter, then yeah move him down.

When It comes to WMB, I really would like to see a healthy year from him(but that seems unlikely), but in a perfect world I would like to package him for a LH OF who can hit in the middle of the lineup.

Betts arm is average and he would be fine in LF considering he plays half his games at Fenway, and where else could you put him? 2016 XB will probably be at 3b and Marrero at SS.

Station 13
04-23-2014, 12:09 PM
Barnes will start Friday.

RaginRondo17
04-23-2014, 12:15 PM
Barnes will start Friday.

Thank you, I was searching around for information on him and all I found was an article from when they shut him down at the start of spring training for a sore shoulder. Really excited to see how he does this year.

Bo Sox Fan
04-23-2014, 12:45 PM
I wonder if Ben will think outside the box and pull another blockbuster of some sort, like the Nick Punto deal to the Dodgers but more of a retool instead of salary dump.

If Betts continues to rake, maybe a Pedroia and a prospect(s) to the Nats for Bryce Harper to play RF?

Flip Buchholz, Middlebrooks, Webster and a prospect(s) to Miami for Stanton to play LF?

I dunno, shake it up a little. There hasn't been a major acquistion since A-Gon and he only lasted a season and a half. Maybe blow Yankee money on Lester AND Scherzer and run with the kids on offence at league minimum price tags?

C - Vazquez/Swiheart
2B - Betts
SS - Bogearts
3B - Cecchini

I'm trying to be creative that's all.

Station 13
04-23-2014, 04:24 PM
You'd think Miami would take that for Stanton?

-Lavigne43-
04-23-2014, 05:31 PM
Please don't turn this thread into a trade proposal thread. It's purely for discussing prospects, not trade ideas.

Nomar
04-23-2014, 05:36 PM
Webster is struggling maybe worse than he even did last year. Not looking good for him. He's seemed weak mentally in his time here.

Station 13
04-23-2014, 06:39 PM
He may be a RHP Andrew Miller, tons of stuff, just not enough control.

win red sox
04-23-2014, 07:43 PM
Webster is struggling maybe worse than he even did last year. Not looking good for him. He's seemed weak mentally in his time here.

so far tonight 6.0ip 5h 4k 1bb, 1er the talent is there it's just a matter of him learning to pitch instead of throw.

-Lavigne43-
04-23-2014, 08:32 PM
Webster is struggling maybe worse than he even did last year. Not looking good for him. He's seemed weak mentally in his time here.

I have not looked at any of his lines but

@brianmacp 32m
Allen Webster done for the night: 6 1/3 IP, 5 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 5 K. ERA stands at 2.73.

season era doesn't look like hes struggled. I guess he walked a ton and got away with it?

Station 13
04-23-2014, 09:42 PM
I still have high hope for Webster. He needs some confidence and roll with it. Clay look awful in 2008, so it's up to the team to help Webster out.

-Lavigne43-
04-23-2014, 11:22 PM
@SPChrisHatfield 6m
Can confirm through sources that Trey Ball will join the Greenville Drive and Pat Light has been promoted to Salem.

Good to hear.

win red sox
04-23-2014, 11:34 PM
@SPChrisHatfield 6m
Can confirm through sources that Trey Ball will join the Greenville Drive and Pat Light has been promoted to Salem.

Good to hear.

kind of surprised by this, I assumed he was going to start the season in Lowell.

Nomar
04-24-2014, 02:07 AM
@SPChrisHatfield 6m
Can confirm through sources that Trey Ball will join the Greenville Drive and Pat Light has been promoted to Salem.

Good to hear.

:clap:

goshhhjosh
04-24-2014, 08:56 AM
At least Redsoxtober will have some players to watch in Greenville.

Ball
Rijo
Kukuk

RedSoxtober
04-24-2014, 09:48 AM
At least Redsoxtober will have some players to watch in Greenville.

Ball
Rijo
Kukuk

:clap:

Station 13
04-25-2014, 05:37 PM
Barnes starts tonight.

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-26-2014, 12:26 PM
At least Redsoxtober will have some players to watch in Greenville.

Ball
Rijo
Kukuk

Rijo is really raking, another awesome up the middle guy raking this year. Between Betts, Marrero and Rijo, you have to like the depth in the infield. Not to mention Lin and others (Coyle). Another good outing for Brian Johnson. Nicely rebounding from his lost season last year. Additionally nice to see Ball take his first steps.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-26-2014, 01:26 PM
Rijo is really raking, another awesome up the middle guy raking this year. Between Betts, Marrero and Rijo, you have to like the depth in the infield. Not to mention Lin and others (Coyle). Another good outing for Brian Johnson. Nicely rebounding from his lost season last year. Additionally nice to see Ball take his first steps.

Rijo mus be somewhat close in cracking the top 10 in the system?

Marrero is someone im not so high on, very good utility but as an everyday starter? bleh..I don't see it.

Mookie? Best 2B prospect in all of baseball imo and with his production so far and his overall game? I see him cracking the top 30 extremely soon.

Station 13
04-26-2014, 03:05 PM
Barnes starts tonight.

5IP 6H 2R 1ER 2BB 2K

A few seeing eyes singles, and 1 infield hit.

Decent outing.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-26-2014, 05:40 PM
Portland down by 1 run in the bottom of the 14th with 2 outs? Mookie a bomb to center to tie it.

I'm in love with this guy!

win red sox
04-26-2014, 09:21 PM
Betts carrying a 418/455/658, jumped up to #3 on sox prospects passing Cecchini and Swihart. Swihart is off to a good start himself 344/354/547.

win red sox
04-26-2014, 10:10 PM
Workman struggling 6.0ip 9h 4er 2bb 3k's carrying a 6.28 era in Pawtucket, gotta think rdlr would be the first pitcher up for a spot start.

Station 13
04-26-2014, 11:16 PM
Mookie is the real deal.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-27-2014, 12:27 AM
Mookie is the real deal.

He's pretty complete as skills are concerned. Plus range, Plus discipline/approach, plus hit tool, sneaky power, plus speed. He also seems like a mature/outstanding kid...I don't see how anyone wouldn't love this guy.

Obviously he could flame out in AAA/Majors, but he deff looks promising and is extremely easy to root for.

Station 13
04-27-2014, 11:03 AM
He's pretty complete as skills are concerned. Plus range, Plus discipline/approach, plus hit tool, sneaky power, plus speed. He also seems like a mature/outstanding kid...I don't see how anyone wouldn't love this guy.

Obviously he could flame out in AAA/Majors, but he deff looks promising and is extremely easy to root for.

He has outstanding hitting skills and contact. More walks than strikeouts in his career. He will be ready probably next year and will succeed Pedroia in the long run. Hope they don't trade him for some overweight reliever with 'closer experience'.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-27-2014, 11:33 AM
He has outstanding hitting skills and contact. More walks than strikeouts in his career. He will be ready probably next year and will succeed Pedroia in the long run. Hope they don't trade him for some overweight reliever with 'closer experience'.

My Biggest question is his ability to play SS.

CF is blocked due to JBJ, 3B will be blocked because of Cecchini and he wouldn't have the arm anyways which the same can be said for RF. LF is open but wasting solid defensive ability in LF diminishes his value. Only way I can see him sticking in boston is at SS or turning himself into Zoberist 2.0

Imo he's quickly turning into "untouchable". If he keeps hitting and cracks the top 20 and his value increases so much you can get Stanton for Mookie/Webster and not much else? than sure.

But I personally would have a hard time dealing him...IMO he could very well be the answer to our leadoff situation.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-27-2014, 01:46 PM
Watching the Portland game on MILB and owens seems off once again. 5 runs in a couple of innings and his location is just pretty bad. While he is exciting its just proof he's still pretty raw. NO WAY he should be apart of the roster this season unless its when rosters grow and he's only there to get experience at being at the ball park and such.

Betts is the best prospect in the minors right now and owens is still a bit of a boom/bust guy, more so than a typical top 35-40 prospect.

Side note: Including last yrs eastern league playoffs Mookie Betts has reached base in 54 straight games. That's impressive stuff!

BoSox47
04-27-2014, 08:37 PM
My Biggest question is his ability to play SS.

CF is blocked due to JBJ, 3B will be blocked because of Cecchini and he wouldn't have the arm anyways which the same can be said for RF. LF is open but wasting solid defensive ability in LF diminishes his value. Only way I can see him sticking in boston is at SS or turning himself into Zoberist 2.0

Imo he's quickly turning into "untouchable". If he keeps hitting and cracks the top 20 and his value increases so much you can get Stanton for Mookie/Webster and not much else? than sure.

But I personally would have a hard time dealing him...IMO he could very well be the answer to our leadoff situation.

It would be considerably more then that. Cecchini, Barnes, Mookie and some lower grade prospect.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-27-2014, 10:55 PM
It would be considerably more then that. Cecchini, Barnes, Mookie and some lower grade prospect.

right now? I'd agree...

However if by mid season mookie is cracking the top 25 or close? he could be that blue chip with other "secondary piece"..

Mookie/Webster/Swihart type package?

Red sox fans drool over Stanton because the sox are missing power and while that is true...They are also missing a leadoff guy and IMO betts could help fix that issue a little bit down the road.

BGeer091
04-28-2014, 08:25 AM
How had Cecchini looked so far?

RedSoxtober
04-28-2014, 09:11 AM
Watching the Portland game on MILB and owens seems off once again. 5 runs in a couple of innings and his location is just pretty bad. While he is exciting its just proof he's still pretty raw. NO WAY he should be apart of the roster this season unless its when rosters grow and he's only there to get experience at being at the ball park and such.
You'd probably say the same thing about Lester if all you'd seen was his last start in the Yankee series or Lackey in his first start against NYY or second against BAL.

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-28-2014, 09:12 AM
Rijo mus be somewhat close in cracking the top 10 in the system?

Marrero is someone im not so high on, very good utility but as an everyday starter? bleh..I don't see it.

Mookie? Best 2B prospect in all of baseball imo and with his production so far and his overall game? I see him cracking the top 30 extremely soon.

Rijo is still only 18-19 years old and is still in Low-A. He's definitely impressing, but there are other players at higher levels that would crack the top 10 before him. It's nice to see regardless. You can never have too many up the middle options, even for trading purposes.

GrkGawdofWalkz
04-28-2014, 09:17 AM
Watching the Portland game on MILB and owens seems off once again. 5 runs in a couple of innings and his location is just pretty bad. While he is exciting its just proof he's still pretty raw. NO WAY he should be apart of the roster this season unless its when rosters grow and he's only there to get experience at being at the ball park and such.

Betts is the best prospect in the minors right now and owens is still a bit of a boom/bust guy, more so than a typical top 35-40 prospect.

Side note: Including last yrs eastern league playoffs Mookie Betts has reached base in 54 straight games. That's impressive stuff!

Owens has outings where his control is spot on, and others it is a little fluky. I would say he's starting out fine this season. He'll be in AAA before the end of the year. I have little doubt about him. Barnes is the guy that I'm looking for to bounce back and prove that he's better than last years numbers. I don't have much faith in Webster, regardless of him having the best stuff. My preference is: Owens, De La Rosa, Barnes, Workman, Johnson at this point in time. Kukuk is starting to show life. While Stanton is amazing, I still think that Miami would hold out for way too much.

RedSoxtober
04-28-2014, 01:54 PM
Posting this just because it was so odd. In Barnes' return Cecchini was the starting 3B but did not record an official at bat. 3BB and a SF gave him an RBI and a .750OBP for the game... but his avg and slg were both ---.

win red sox
04-28-2014, 09:15 PM
Mookie up to his old tricks. 1/2 2b 3bb 2 sb

Bo Sox Fan
04-29-2014, 12:16 AM
Betts is looking like the Mike Trout of the minor leagues, and dare I say better?

We might have a legitimate superstar in blooming on our hands that no one seen coming, and should be considered untouchable in any deal to the same extent as Bogaerts.

-Lavigne43-
04-29-2014, 11:56 AM
You're going too far there in your excitement. Trout's only a year older than Mookie and has physical abilities Mookie doesn't, even comparing him to Xander is no good. We've seen players get ridiculously hot in the minors before. Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, JBjr, Ellsbury all come to mind.

Now if this keeps up for another couple weeks I think they have no choice but to bring him up to AAA. AA just seems too easy for him right now. Honestly the guy might be able to hit well at the major league level right now and we are just having him hit every level.

Bos_Sports4Life
04-29-2014, 12:05 PM
He's obviously no where close to mike trout, if he stays healthy and regresses well he's going to not only be in coopers town but as one of the "elites".

XB has .380+ OBP/.500 SLG potential, Mookie isn't quite that either.

HOWEVER, I also don't remember being this impressed with WMB,Lavarnway,JBJ etc either. I do remember ellsbury getting very hot however.

overall? He's not quite "untouchable" but let me say this...There is no flipping away I'm trading mookie/Owens in a single deal for anyone really...Not happening. Unless that player is of course Harper/Trout etc but obviously that's not happening.

-Lavigne43-
04-29-2014, 12:05 PM
Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier 2h
Betts in 2014: .407/.459/.651, 14 XBH, 10 SB in 20 Gs. Betts since 5/5/13: .358/.435/.572, 65 XBH, 44 SB in 124 Gs

Remember, he got off to a bad start last April, hes been crazy ever since.

-Lavigne43-
04-29-2014, 12:12 PM
He's obviously no where close to mike trout, if he stays healthy and regresses well he's going to not only be in coopers town but as one of the "elites".

XB has .380+ OBP/.500 SLG potential, Mookie isn't quite that either.

HOWEVER, I also don't remember being this impressed with WMB,Lavarnway,JBJ etc either. I do remember ellsbury getting very hot however.

overall? He's not quite "untouchable" but let me say this...There is no flipping away I'm trading mookie/Owens in a single deal for anyone really...Not happening. Unless that player is of course Harper/Trout etc but obviously that's not happening.

WMB and Lavarnway were hitting tons of homeruns, I guess you weren't paying as much attention but I remember that getting a ton of hype. Looking back WMB slugged .677 in AAA before getting called up. JBjr's was more hushed up but he was ridiculous in 2012, .359/.480/.526 line

-Lavigne43-
04-29-2014, 01:05 PM
@alexspeier 20m
And, the mid-day Mookie Betts stat: Betts in 35 PAs vs LHP - .517/.600/.793, 6 BB, 0 Ks. (Yes, that's a zero.)

lol

Station 13
04-29-2014, 02:50 PM
Lefties going to get whiplash at fenway facing Betts.

RedSoxtober
04-29-2014, 03:32 PM
He's obviously no where close to mike trout, if he stays healthy and regresses well he's going to not only be in coopers town but as one of the "elites".

Holy crap, take a cold shower.

-Lavigne43-
04-29-2014, 05:20 PM
Holy crap, take a cold shower.

He's talking about Trout.

I wonder when they will start having him play new positions in games. I read that he has been taking flyballs in CF before games. If he continues to hit at this elite level I don't think it's unrealistic that he plays in the majors this season.

win red sox
04-29-2014, 07:13 PM
Mookie 3/4 with a 3 run homer. Nice.

Station 13
04-29-2014, 11:59 PM
Couch might able to pitch better than Doubront up in the majors.

RedSoxtober
04-30-2014, 09:18 AM
He's talking about Trout.My mistake.


I wonder when they will start having him play new positions in games. I read that he has been taking flyballs in CF before games. If he continues to hit at this elite level I don't think it's unrealistic that he plays in the majors this season.

Not unrealistic at all, no. The Sox love to promote MIF in Sep anyway so he makes sense for that at the very least. Mookie in CF and JBJr in RF wouldn't be a terrible combination for the future. If Mookie continues to hit and XB stays at SS, their up-the-middle offense would make up for a weaker hitting RF in JBJr.

Nomar
04-30-2014, 01:01 PM
Taking JBJ out of center field is a big mistake. If we're gonna stick him in RF we'd be better off trading him once he adjusts to major league pitching more (~600-800 ABs at least).

Nomar
04-30-2014, 02:04 PM
Mookie's low strikeout rate may be my favorite thing about him. Considering his patient approach and his sneaky power, he's almost a lock to be good offensively. Not Bogaerts good on that side of the ball, but I would think he'll hover in the .780-.820 range which would be fantastic. I know its greedy but I wish his arm would improve just a little so we could stick him at short.

RedSoxtober
04-30-2014, 02:09 PM
Hm, really? Speier doesn't seem to think so.


Indeed, Betts is trying to ensure that he will be just that, with an understanding that if he does reach the big leagues with the Red Sox, the likelihood is that it will be as something other than a second baseman (barring an injury to Pedroia). And so, there are two things Betts does every day to advance his career.

One is get on base for the Sea Dogs during the game. The other comes before the game, and acknowledges the reality of his position in the Red Sox organization, a budding star who is playing behind a franchise icon.

"I make it a point, always in the third group [of batting practice], I go to center field," said Betts, who has played second base exclusively for most of the last three years after opening his career as a shortstop. "I pretty much take it like a game situation, take all the line drives, flyballs, anything, and sometimes I take some groundballs and throw them to the bag just to see what it's like out there."

He has a sense of that. Indeed, Betts has a sense of familiarity at two positions aside from second.

In high school, he played shortstop, center field and second base. He recalls being most comfortable while at Overton High School in Tennessee as a center fielder, though when the Sox took him in the fifth round of the 2011 draft, they viewed him as being a potential big league shortstop.

...

For now, most evaluators feel that the likeliest move for Betts would be to the outfield -- either center or left. With Daniel Nava now back in Triple-A and Jonny Gomes as well as Grady Sizemore eligible for free agency after this year, left field is unsettled for the Red Sox after 2014. Shane Victorino is eligible for free agency after 2015, and so the Sox could contemplate an alignment down the road (or in the shorter-term if needed, if injuries or performance struggles occur to the current group of outfielders) of Betts in center and Victorino or Jackie Bradley Jr. in right.
But those notions are getting a bit ahead of Betts' current circumstance. If the 21-year-old continues to rocket through the Red Sox system at this pace, it likely will be in Triple-A Pawtucket -- perhaps later this year -- that he will start gaining exposure to positions other than second base in games, at a time when he can work with one coaching staff on making any necessary transitions, with the relevant coordinator or coordinators (infield instructor Andy Fox or outfield instructor George Lombard, depending on the Sox' needs) linking up with Pawtucket as needed to round out Betts' education at a different spot.

That's how the Sox proceeded with Xander Bogaerts a year ago: He took some grounders at third base in Portland, but it wasn't until he arrived in Pawtucket -- after he'd shown that he needed to be challenged by a higher level of pitching -- that he began his more formal training at the position where he'd eventually prove a pivotal postseason performer.
Speier @ Boston Herald

bagwell368
04-30-2014, 02:29 PM
OK, devil's advocate wonders about 2014...

LF Betts/Nava
CF JBJ
RF SV
3B: GC
SS: XB
2B: DP
1B: Nap
C: Vazquez + a crusty vet
DH: fading Ortiz
UTil: WMB (3B/1B/DH/LF)

That line-up is anemic for HR's (Fenway always helps line drive hitters in the doubles department, but 81 games are away so a lot of those 2B's in Fenway are outs on the road) - although arguably quite good for OBP, probably worse SLG in '15.

We'll need to get replacements at: 1B/DH/RF over the next 2 years to make up for this. Minors isn't very inspiring, so it's FA time or deal the kids. Power in FA isn't very interesting in '14 or '15.

Nomar
04-30-2014, 02:39 PM
OK, devil's advocate wonders about 2014...

LF Betts/Nava
CF JBJ
RF SV
3B: GC
SS: XB
2B: DP
1B: Nap
C: Vazquez + a crusty vet
DH: fading Ortiz
UTil: WMB (3B/1B/DH/LF)

That line-up is anemic for HR's (Fenway always helps line drive hitters in the doubles department, but 81 games are away so a lot of those 2B's in Fenway are outs on the road) - although arguably quite good for OBP, probably worse SLG in '15.

We'll need to get replacements at: 1B/DH/RF over the next 2 years to make up for this. Minors isn't very inspiring, so it's FA time or deal the kids. Power in FA isn't very interesting in '14 or '15.

Just a minor note that Cecchini and WMB's roles could easily be switched there. Really have my doubts that Cecchini will be offensively ready to start at 3B consistently. He's not gonna get walked that much with the lack of power he's shown. It would be one thing if he were a doubles machine, but thats not even the case at the moment. Right now he's OBP driven in terms of offensive value. That's a difficult position to be in for a rookie hitter. I someone told me we'd see a .270/.320/.330 line from him next year, I wouldn't be surprised. And considering he's not going to bring much defensively, it might not be possible to keep him in the lineup at 3rd base every day. And against lefties WMB easily gets the nod over him (if both are till even here which isn't a given).

Station 13
04-30-2014, 08:38 PM
Mookie 2-3 BB

Make that 56 games reaching base safely.

win red sox
04-30-2014, 10:18 PM
JBJ has graduated prospect status and it looks like XB will graduate pretty soon. who's your top 10?

1 Betts
2 Swihart
3 Barnes
4 Owens
5 Cecchini
6 Webster
7 Marrero
8 Ball
9 Margot
10 Rijo

Bos_Sports4Life
04-30-2014, 11:41 PM
OK, devil's advocate wonders about 2014...

LF Betts/Nava
CF JBJ
RF SV
3B: GC
SS: XB
2B: DP
1B: Nap
C: Vazquez + a crusty vet
DH: fading Ortiz
UTil: WMB (3B/1B/DH/LF)

That line-up is anemic for HR's (Fenway always helps line drive hitters in the doubles department, but 81 games are away so a lot of those 2B's in Fenway are outs on the road) - although arguably quite good for OBP, probably worse SLG in '15.

We'll need to get replacements at: 1B/DH/RF over the next 2 years to make up for this. Minors isn't very inspiring, so it's FA time or deal the kids. Power in FA isn't very interesting in '14 or '15.


I think you are focusing in on the long ball wayyyy too much. Few things..

* Lots of doubles/Very good OBP will go a long ways to negate the loss of HR's. Look at last seasons cardinal team, Now they had an unusual avg with RISP but the point still stands...Have a good team wOBA and you will score runs.

* Power in baseball has gone down hill considerably and its continuing to trend downwards. SLG% last season was at a league average of .396 which was the lowest since 1992 and this season? its even lower at .388. This isn't exactly 2003 where you need a "murders row" type lineup.

My personaly opinion? guys like Cecchini are apart of the solution, not a problem.

BCpatsox18
05-01-2014, 09:45 AM
I'm still convinced WMB is the 1B of the future, the sox have no first base prospects worth anything in the minors beyond Travis Shaw, who at best is a second division starter in my eyes. I think Mookie will be moved to LF and be a Carl Crawford-type left fielder (rays version, not sox) high avg, lots of steals and a better on base % than CC. Just as a fun exercise that 100% will be wrong, here is my 2016 lineup (barring any trades, which i know, is not going to happen):
LF- Mookie Betts
2B- Dustin Pedroia
SS- Xander Bogaerts
1B- Will Middlebrooks
3B- Garin Cecchini
C- Blake Swihart
DH- (free agent)
RF- Manuel Margot
CF- Jackie Bradley Jr.

That being said, I foresee many of these prospects being traded for OF help, that being our weakest area in the system besides 1B. Another reason why i wish the Sox took Austin Meadows rather than Trey Ball, but nothing you can do there besides hope it works out

bagwell368
05-01-2014, 10:19 AM
I think you are focusing in on the long ball wayyyy too much. Few things..

If you actually read what I wrote before your automatic response... you'd see I wasn't just talking about HR's but also 2B's outside of Fenway (and if you think about it, more 2B's in Fenway than opponents). xBH and/or HR's are a vital part of any teams offense in the post 1920 era that would like to be at the top of the AL in scoring runs.


* Lots of doubles/Very good OBP will go a long ways to negate the loss of HR's.

Again, you need to read what I wrote before you go off.


Look at last seasons cardinal team, Now they had an unusual avg with RISP but the point still stands...Have a good team wOBA and you will score runs.

wOBA? Ummm... wOBA includes increased values for 2B, 3B, and HR over BB or 1B. So I agree, you sure you weren't going for OBP?


* Power in baseball has gone down hill considerably and its continuing to trend downwards. SLG% last season was at a league average of .396 which was the lowest since 1992 and this season? its even lower at .388. This isn't exactly 2003 where you need a "murders row" type lineup.

It's early in the year, so .388 isn't any notable change from .396 at all, so stow that away for now, but speaking about last year and this year:

Meanwhile the Red Sox in 2013 led the Majors in scoring with an OBP of .349 and SLG of .446
Meanwhile the Red Sox in 2014 are 13th in MLB scoring with an OBP of .333 and SLG of .384

Surely you can see that the OBP hasn't changed very much, therefore the drop in scoring is more due to the SLG. In fact using the OPS+ multiplying factor for OBP, it still leaves the drop in SLG as being nearly triple the hit in OBP between these two seasons.

My point is that with aging/FA of the current production bats such as Ortiz, Napoli, Gomes, AJP; rookies coming at C, young players without much SLG potential moving in at CF, 3B, and perhaps LF and a likely drop in production from one or two of these players over '14 and '15 due to injuries/age: Pedroia and Victorino - there is going to be a drop in producing runs vis a vis whatever is the norm in the league and what the Sox did in 2013 - if nothing major is done to get at least one true production bat here, if not two.


My personaly opinion? guys like Cecchini are apart of the solution, not a problem.

I was on the GC train before almost all here. While say 6 hitters in your line-up that are .275/.375/.325 are welcome, if you don't have some sort of production hitters in the heart of your line-up, you're going to lead the MLB in one thing for sure - LOB. OK if you lead the league in runs, but not so good if you're in the middle someplace.

bagwell368
05-01-2014, 10:31 AM
I'm still convinced WMB is the 1B of the future, the sox have no first base prospects worth anything in the minors beyond Travis Shaw, who at best is a second division starter in my eyes. I think Mookie will be moved to LF and be a Carl Crawford-type left fielder (rays version, not sox) high avg, lots of steals and a better on base % than CC. Just as a fun exercise that 100% will be wrong, here is my 2016 lineup (barring any trades, which i know, is not going to happen):
LF- Mookie Betts
2B- Dustin Pedroia
SS- Xander Bogaerts
1B- Will Middlebrooks
3B- Garin Cecchini
C- Blake Swihart
DH- (free agent)
RF- Manuel Margot
CF- Jackie Bradley Jr.

That being said, I foresee many of these prospects being traded for OF help, that being our weakest area in the system besides 1B. Another reason why i wish the Sox took Austin Meadows rather than Trey Ball, but nothing you can do there besides hope it works out

1B batting stats are the highest of any position. This team has a high budget - thus expectations are high.

Unless WMB can keep from being dominated by above average pitchers, outside of maybe part of a season I don't see him at 1B. I think WMB's fate will be decided before Napoli is done here (hopefully he'll get hot and dealt).

If you sort out the games that Middlebrooks has gone beserk (you know those 10-0 jobs when the other team just leaves in a bad pitcher to get crushed) from the rest his career numbers - they are positively abysmal and he's seldom hit a big hit in a big spot. I.E. he sucks in 2 out RISP and high and mid leverage situations. His anxiety about his crap strike zone eats him up and he swings at the wrong pitches and doesn't swing at the right ones.

I like your line-up except I don't see Swihart being the prime catcher here - ever. He's too small and Vazquez looks to be a massive talent on the defensive side and after 1500 PA's an average hitter for a C.

Swihart could be back-up catcher (2/5 or 1/5), and also DH if he hits well enough. He'll never hold up with that build as a 120 game/yr catcher.

BCpatsox18
05-01-2014, 11:09 AM
I love Vazquez's defensive talent, but I just think Swihart has such upside offensively for a catcher along with extremely good defense of his own that he can't not be the catcher of the future. His size has always been a concern, but he's shown a good work ethic to go from 170lbs to the 200lbs that he is now, hopefully that continues. If he can get to around 6'1" 210lbs I think he can hold up for 100 games, DH for 40 games and have Vazquez catch the rest.

BCpatsox18
05-01-2014, 11:10 AM
That being said, one of them will be traded either at the deadline this year or in the offseason. They're both too good to be back-ups, especially at a position that is so weak throughout the league.

bagwell368
05-01-2014, 12:03 PM
I love Vazquez's defensive talent, but I just think Swihart has such upside offensively for a catcher along with extremely good defense of his own that he can't not be the catcher of the future. His size has always been a concern, but he's shown a good work ethic to go from 170lbs to the 200lbs that he is now, hopefully that continues. If he can get to around 6'1" 210lbs I think he can hold up for 100 games, DH for 40 games and have Vazquez catch the rest.

Swihart's minor league slash (mostly earned below AA) is: .282/.336/.419 - promising but a guarantee of nothing.

Go ahead and hit google for some current pics. Thin long forearms, thin fingers. When I think catcher builds, I think of guys like Tek (1" taller and played 47-50 lbs heavier than Swihart's current weight (listed 175 - I estimate 185-187)* and Munson (2" shorter and 25-27 lbs heavier). It's not just a matter of weight, it's thickness and toughness of build. Swihart looks like a senior LF on a D2 college team. Not a tobacco chewing tough bastard behind the plate.

*No way Swihart is 200 lbs, none. He's not a lb over 187. My son is a college player that goes 6' 3.5" with a 34" waist and much broader shoulders than Swihart, and bigger arms that has very low body fat and maxes 300 on the bench, and he's 212 - Swihart would look like a twig next to him.

Swihart's D is extremely good? Good footwork, hops out of the crouch and runs down pops very well. But his 31% CS rate is concerning at "A" and "AA". Vazquez is at a very impressive 44% in AAA this season. Vazquez is also batting: .292 .342 .417 at AAA - which is quite promising too.

If you're playing both Swihart and Vazquez and Vazquez is a better/much better defender than Swihart, and if Swihart reacts like most catchers and hits better when he's not catching, why the big push to put Swihart at C full time? In particular if there isn't any huge option at DH after Ortiz is gone?

I sense that you're a Swihart guy no matter what, and you're short shrifting Vazquez. Vazquez will be here first and if he pans out as the 2nd-3rd best defensive catcher in the AL and the 9th best hitter, I'd much rather have him as the starter than Swihart if he's the 2nd-3rd best hitter and 9th best defender - for the nagging/serious injury possibilities on one hand, the likely increase in Swihart's batting stats NOT playing catcher and the fact that superior defensive catchers that are average hitters do more positive to the net runs of a team than the other way around. Biggio was a small guy that came up as a catcher, won a silver slugger and moved to 2B before he was plowed into the dust.

Warning to stat guys: the current fielding/pitching values (defensive runs) "established" are inferior in stating the true value of catchers defensively - IMO. Just look at the feeble attempt at both BR and FG to give a net runs value to Salty and the other catchers in Boston over Salty's time, the ERA and slash numbers were much more truthfull and useful the differences. If the connection between pitcher and catcher cannot be measured than the defensive stats for catchers are a joke since things like passed balls and CS% are but a fraction of the actual value.

bagwell368
05-01-2014, 12:34 PM
That being said, one of them will be traded either at the deadline this year or in the offseason. They're both too good to be back-ups, especially at a position that is so weak throughout the league.

Why? Catchers get injured frequently and Swihart does have the potential to play other positions - full or part time.

It may be 2-3 years before we know what Vazquez is and is worth, maybe 3-4 years for Swihart. While they are both pre-FA I wouldn't make any moves until I knew what they worth in the market.

Nomar
05-01-2014, 02:21 PM
Vazquez isn't above being a backup right away. His offense is going to lag for a while in any probability. Look how long it took Yadi to improve offensively to the point where he was average. And asking CV to be him is a ton.

bagwell368
05-01-2014, 06:30 PM
Vazquez isn't above being a backup right away. His offense is going to lag for a while in any probability. Look how long it took Yadi to improve offensively to the point where he was average. And asking CV to be him is a ton.

Right away is this year, for Sep 1 call-up or injury replacement. No he won't be a starter this year. Next year also maybe not, depending on who they get to play with him - hopefully a wise vet.

While it might be asking a lot for Vazquez to be an average AL offensive player in '14 or '15, it's not IMO asking him to be a top 3 AL defender by the end of '15 - he's that good.

Nomar
05-01-2014, 07:19 PM
Right away is this year, for Sep 1 call-up or injury replacement. No he won't be a starter this year. Next year also maybe not, depending on who they get to play with him - hopefully a wise vet.

While it might be asking a lot for Vazquez to be an average AL offensive player in '14 or '15, it's not IMO asking him to be a top 3 AL defender by the end of '15 - he's that good.

I agree but my point was he won't be your 4/5 starter. He'll more likely be in a ~50% situation as long as he can OPS .675+

bagwell368
05-01-2014, 08:37 PM
I agree but my point was he won't be your 4/5 starter. He'll more likely be in a ~50% situation as long as he can OPS .675+

First off 4/5 is 130 games, and very few catchers do that. A starter these days is 3/5 or above. If he turns out to be #3 type defensive catcher in the AL by the end of '15, he could have a slash of .225/.295/.290 and be that 3/5.

Offense at catcher in the face of below average or bad D is underrated in the damage done. Give me the glove/arm and game calling w/ meh O over the bat with meh D all day every day.

win red sox
05-01-2014, 08:54 PM
First off 4/5 is 130 games, and very few catchers do that. A starter these days is 3/5 or above. If he turns out to be #3 type defensive catcher in the AL by the end of '15, he could have a slash of .225/.295/.290 and be that 3/5.

Offense at catcher in the face of below average or bad D is underrated in the damage done. Give me the glove/arm and game calling w/ meh O over the bat with meh D all day every day.

perfect example is Salty's mlb leading 1.2 fwar for catcher.;)

BCpatsox18
05-01-2014, 09:53 PM
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/01/18/why-red-sox-prospect-blake-swihart-is-his-own-breed-of-catcher-15-second-edition/

take it for what it's worth, but this article claims he is 200lbs. Also, the Red Sox named Swihart minor league defensive player of the year. Those awards don't mean much, but obviously they have high hopes for his defensive capability. I don't mean to sell Vazquez short, I just think the upside is much higher with Swihart

corky831
05-01-2014, 11:01 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if he is 200 lbs ......your sons just must be shredded bags....I played division I baseball and didn't appear big ....nor did most of my friends but we were all close to 200 lbs.....obviously not all muscle....some beer helped that out

Bos_Sports4Life
05-01-2014, 11:39 PM
If you actually read what I wrote before your automatic response... you'd see I wasn't just talking about HR's but also 2B's outside of Fenway (and if you think about it, more 2B's in Fenway than opponents). xBH and/or HR's are a vital part of any teams offense in the post 1920 era that would like to be at the top of the AL in scoring runs.

XB will develop into one of the leagues better power hitter imo with Cecchini/Mookie with both having gap to gap power.





wOBA? Ummm... wOBA includes increased values for 2B, 3B, and HR over BB or 1B. So I agree, you sure you weren't going for OBP?

But wOBA doesn't increase with XBH as much as SLG. I'm just saying is this, If guy like Cecchini has a .380 OBP..I'll be OK with 5 HR's.



It's early in the year, so .388 isn't any notable change from .396 at all, so stow that away for now, but speaking about last year and this year:


Meanwhile the Red Sox in 2013 led the Majors in scoring with an OBP of .349 and SLG of .446
Meanwhile the Red Sox in 2014 are 13th in MLB scoring with an OBP of .333 and SLG of .384

Red sox have a pretty big issue with very few players in there prime, few guys long in the tooth mixed in with a couple kids and a few more on the way.

IMO waiting it out is the best option.

I mean SURE they could sell off Owens/Betts for stanton and give stanton a big extention but imo that would do more harm than good.


Surely you can see that the OBP hasn't changed very much, therefore the drop in scoring is more due to the SLG. In fact using the OPS+ multiplying factor for OBP, it still leaves the drop in SLG as being nearly triple the hit in OBP between these two seasons.

My point is that with aging/FA of the current production bats such as Ortiz, Napoli, Gomes, AJP; rookies coming at C, young players without much SLG potential moving in at CF, 3B, and perhaps LF and a likely drop in production from one or two of these players over '14 and '15 due to injuries/age: Pedroia and Victorino - there is going to be a drop in producing runs vis a vis whatever is the norm in the league and what the Sox did in 2013 - if nothing major is done to get at least one true production bat here, if not two.

XB imo can be on those impactful bats..

Ortiz declining is big but as for the other guys? It's not like Napoli is some rare/unique talent....I like him but i'm not going to think its the end of the world when it comes to replacing his bat in the future. He's not exactly prime manny ramirez.



I was on the GC train before almost all here. While say 6 hitters in your line-up that are .275/.375/.325 are welcome, if you don't have some sort of production hitters in the heart of your line-up, you're going to lead the MLB in one thing for sure - LOB. OK if you lead the league in runs, but not so good if you're in the middle someplace.

Sure, but what happens if XB develops 25-3030 HR power and they go ahead and sign a 25+ HR guy?

bagwell368
05-02-2014, 06:08 AM
perfect example is Salty's mlb leading 1.2 fwar for catcher.;)

Hunh... yeah... I've already done the two step on BR and FG stats for catchers as being woefully misleading. 1B is another position with a questionable link between what happened and how they are rated on paper.

bagwell368
05-02-2014, 06:19 AM
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/01/18/why-red-sox-prospect-blake-swihart-is-his-own-breed-of-catcher-15-second-edition/

take it for what it's worth, but this article claims he is 200lbs. Also, the Red Sox named Swihart minor league defensive player of the year. Those awards don't mean much, but obviously they have high hopes for his defensive capability. I don't mean to sell Vazquez short, I just think the upside is much higher with Swihart

The "eyes" have it over the printed word. Swihart is not 200 lbs. That's PR/wishful thinking/rounding.

Look at Swiharts arms, hands, and fingers, they do not belong to a big league catcher (or wannabe). If he's on protein shakes, and weight lifting for 3 solid years, OK maybe - meanwhile Vazquez will have been here establishing himself, and very likely could start being compared to very fine former Red Sox catchers on the D such as Tony Pena and Tek. If Pedy goes down young, and Betts is elsewhere, than Swihart might make a fine 2B. If not unless Swihart does a major body reshaping he's not going to hold up playing 110 games a year as a ML catcher based on my observations.

bagwell368
05-02-2014, 06:24 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if he is 200 lbs ......your sons just must be shredded bags....I played division I baseball and didn't appear big ....nor did most of my friends but we were all close to 200 lbs.....obviously not all muscle....some beer helped that out

I checked with him yesterday actually and he said that in the Fall when he was surfing he was 208. I'm not going to link the particular pic I have that shows his torso at the beach, but, really, he dwarfs Swihart.

I can see that Swihart weighs about ~187-188 in the most recent pics I found, so sure two 7 egg omlettes with 5 slices of bacon, 5 large pizzas, and 4 lbs of Shepards Pie and a case of beer over a weekend - and viola! he's 200 lbs, but really, that's not the weight I'm talking about. Look at the pics of his arms, hands, fingers and then any rugged long term catcher in their first couple of years - and I don't see the sync up between the two.

bagwell368
05-02-2014, 06:54 AM
I mean SURE they could sell off Owens/Betts for stanton and give stanton a big extention but imo that would do more harm than good.

Owens won't be part of the deal IMO. Like XB last spring he moved into the untouchable category this spring.


XB imo can be on those impactful bats..

He has to be, they are counting on him.


Ortiz declining is big but as for the other guys? It's not like Napoli is some rare/unique talent....I like him but i'm not going to think its the end of the world when it comes to replacing his bat in the future. He's not exactly prime manny ramirez.

Right - Napoli is a top 50 ML hitter (back end) - but no Manny, so even with two Napoli types and XB you're well short of Ortiz, Ramirez, Lowell from '07. Then who do you propose matches Drew, Youk, and Tek in '07? Let's see you'll say Cecchini, Betts, Swihart? I'll say no way, since none of them has seen a ML pitch and they are not all 3 going to blossom in the bigs - take it to the bank.


Sure, but what happens if XB develops 25-3030 HR power and they go ahead and sign a 25+ HR guy?

You're still short. The D at 3B, SS, 2B, LF is worse than '07. CF is better. The batting is still short of '07 since you haven't replaced in hierarchical order the bats from that team, and the pitching? Forget it, 2007 is the best Red Sox staff since either 1918 or 1912.

BC is going to have to look past Napoli and Victorino at some point (no later than mid season next year) and decide what he has in hand, where his holes are, and at least one significant production hitter will be needed (DH, COF, 1B). He can plug in age 32+ guys that have been passed over for long deals to temporize, but, if he wants a significant bat prior to age 27, it's from inhouse (sorry cupboard appears bare) or via trade. The same thing may have to happen with an ace since the Sox may have foolishly kicked away Lester. So either vast amounts of money or the farm (Owens?) - probably not a trade - will have to be made.

You are relying on way too much going right with the brace of young players we have in hand. History says so. Cecchini, Betts, Swihart, Vazquez. At least one will fail to ever be a starter for a season, and it's likely another will never really cut it, shuffling through the Majors for a few years and then - gone. Two out of four doing a good job is actually well above the norm outcome - it could be one. Now what?

A strong farm coupled with a rich team means you can source your team well from 3 sides. Development, FA, and trade. The Skanks can't make any significant trades because their development system sucks, your model fails because you've fallen in love with hype of players that have proven nothing at the highest level. XB is a once in a generation talent - Nomar was the last one. You're going to wait around for the next one, and run the team like it's KC with bucks for FA's - most of the talent generated inhouse and too bad if your new 3B sucks? Buy some beat up 34 old to cover it over for a year?

As for wOBA and OPS+ they both factor OBP as more important than SLG. But both stats really only make production hitters look good. For the top 2 guys in the order, OBP is key, and SLG is not. Those two stats actually tend to devalue good OBP, and meh SLG hitters. But 3-6 or 3-7? Those stats are key, very key. 8 and 9 you get what you get, maybe a good SLG catcher with awful OBP at #8. Maybe a kid with an OK OBP at #9. The point is OBP on top and OBP/SLG in the middle 1/3 if not 5/9's of the order. That's how good offensive teams are built - in particular if the D is average, and the pitching unknown.

bagwell368
05-02-2014, 09:45 AM
Just a minor note that Cecchini and WMB's roles could easily be switched there. Really have my doubts that Cecchini will be offensively ready to start at 3B consistently. He's not gonna get walked that much with the lack of power he's shown. It would be one thing if he were a doubles machine, but thats not even the case at the moment. Right now he's OBP driven in terms of offensive value. That's a difficult position to be in for a rookie hitter. I someone told me we'd see a .270/.320/.330 line from him next year, I wouldn't be surprised. And considering he's not going to bring much defensively, it might not be possible to keep him in the lineup at 3rd base every day. And against lefties WMB easily gets the nod over him (if both are till even here which isn't a given).

I don't agree. Cecchini gets walked now in part because Minor League pitchers are not as accurate as Major League pitchers - but mostly because he has a Major League level eye for the strike zone. Throwing a guy all strikes that can hit the ball isn't a real bright idea - and we won't see it here with him.

Is anyone real afraid of JBJ's power? He's got a 12.4% BB rate (an OBP of +.104 this year above BA goes a long way to making a .226 BA look good).

GC has a +.105 above BA in his minor league career. Even this year at AAA - he's .304/.398 at age 23 (4.2 years younger than the average player in the league). He was 2.4 years younger last year than the average AA player and was .296/.420.

He's got to be be pitched like any good hitter, albeit not as carefully as a stud, with balls and strikes and borderline pitches mixed together.

Bo Sox Fan
05-02-2014, 10:11 AM
When Betts is ready to play full time at the major league level (let's say 2016) could Pedroia not take the majority of the reps at DH to save the wear and tear while Mookie takes over the 2B job?

That should help prolong Pedy's contract healthwise.

RedSoxtober
05-02-2014, 10:17 AM
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/01/18/why-red-sox-prospect-blake-swihart-is-his-own-breed-of-catcher-15-second-edition/

take it for what it's worth, but this article claims he is 200lbs. Also, the Red Sox named Swihart minor league defensive player of the year. Those awards don't mean much, but obviously they have high hopes for his defensive capability. I don't mean to sell Vazquez short, I just think the upside is much higher with Swihart

Speier is not often wrong so it's worth taking seriously. Whether they simply forwarded the meme or not, ESPN said something similar during ST:


And hes taking this catching conversion seriously. After the season, the Red Sox asked him to put on some weight. So between the end of the season and the beginning of camp, he added 20 pounds, going from 180 to 200.

Realistically I'd guess that he added a lot of weight coming into ST (rookie camp from the Speier article is not long before ST) but that his playing weight will be lower. I guess you could both be right.

I agree with Bags, though, that he's got a relatively small frame for a catcher. That's been one of my reservations about him sticking behind the plate.

-Lavigne43-
05-02-2014, 12:36 PM
I do remember hearing on a podcast with one of the national prospect gurus that he put on a lot of weight, and the prospect guy was very encouraged that he could stick at the position, I think it was Parks. I have not seen a picture of him this year, but it's hard to believe he can play the position over a full season based off of past photos. He has the frame of a 2b or 3b, I can't think of anyone with his type of frame playing catcher in the majors.

bagwell368
05-02-2014, 12:46 PM
I do remember hearing on a podcast with one of the national prospect gurus that he put on a lot of weight, and the prospect guy was very encouraged that he could stick at the position, I think it was Parks. I have not seen a picture of him this year, but it's hard to believe he can play the position over a full season based off of past photos. He has the frame of a 2b or 3b, I can't think of anyone with his type of frame playing catcher in the majors.

Even guys like Fisk and Bench who were not not that thick as rookies had a certain heft/density of build that I don't detect in Swihart. If he has gone up to 195-200, that's good news. The best news would be 215 solid in 18 months, and 2/5 of the job until we see how good a catcher and hitter he really is.

Bos_Sports4Life
05-03-2014, 01:07 AM
Owens won't be part of the deal IMO. Like XB last spring he moved into the untouchable category this spring.

I view Betts as more "untochable" even given the fact his primary Position being 2B.

When ortiz leaves DH'ing Pedroia 40 times/season seems like a logical idea. Maybe have him play CF for JBJ against some LHP?

Either way, wasting his athetic ability in LF does not seem logical to me.




He has to be, they are counting on him.

His overall floor seems to be 2-3 time all star imo with his ceiling obviously being top 5 in MVP.




Right - Napoli is a top 50 ML hitter (back end) - but no Manny, so even with two Napoli types and XB you're well short of Ortiz, Ramirez, Lowell from '07. Then who do you propose matches Drew, Youk, and Tek in '07? Let's see you'll say Cecchini, Betts, Swihart? I'll say no way, since none of them has seen a ML pitch and they are not all 3 going to blossom in the bigs - take it to the bank.

Why are we bringing up the 2007 offense? 2013 relatively speaking was better and more recent.




You are relying on way too much going right with the brace of young players we have in hand. History says so. Cecchini, Betts, Swihart, Vazquez. At least one will fail to ever be a starter for a season, and it's likely another will never really cut it, shuffling through the Majors for a few years and then - gone. Two out of four doing a good job is actually well above the norm outcome - it could be one. Now what?

Under normal circumstances even in a bleh farm you'd excpect 1 kid to make it. In arguably the best upper minors in the MLB (AA-AAA) You will likey see well above the norm.

Swihart- Many question his build and i'd agree. Easily plus hitter potential at C but if he moves off? His offensive value obviously takes a nose dive. Wouldnt at all mind packaging him.

Vazquez- I'd bet on him being a top 3 defensive catcher RIGHT NOW in the AL. Seems like he has the tools to become a GG caliber catcher with enough offense to get by esp considering his defense. Scouts like Swihart more but Vazquez seems much more of a safe bet, so much so where it overrides total ceiling and in a trade? i'd give up swihart if given the choice.


GC- Elite discipline with elite hit tool. Questions regarding defense/power are real but even with out much power and below average fielding he'd be an above average starter.With average fielding and doubles power? He'd find himself in a couple mid summer classics imo.

Mookie- He's followed an impressive season in single A by having an even impressive season in AA. He has almost twice as many XBH (15) as K's (8) while also drawing 11 walks.

His slash of .430/.481/.688 even given the short sample size (little more than 100 PA's) is absolutely mindblowing considering he's a 22 yr old midle infielder playing in AA ball. That goes along with his plus speed (10 SB's) and plus defense.

I don't watch AAA nearly as closely as AA (Lived 20 min away from port growing up and kept following them by watching them on MILB) so i cant really comment much on AAA but i will say this, He has imressed me more than pedroia did for port and is becoming more highly touted by scouts than pedroia did as a prospect.

Now Pedroia over achieved what was projected and 55+ WAR players dont grow from trees which is where petey will likely end up...But Mookie's tools/producton is something to be really impressed about.



A strong farm coupled with a rich team means you can source your team well from 3 sides. Development, FA, and trade. The Skanks can't make any significant trades because their development system sucks, your model fails because you've fallen in love with hype of players that have proven nothing at the highest level. XB is a once in a generation talent - Nomar was the last one. You're going to wait around for the next one, and run the team like it's KC with bucks for FA's - most of the talent generated inhouse and too bad if your new 3B sucks? Buy some beat up 34 old to cover it over for a year?

Sure XB is the first "generational" talent as far as prospects go but lester/Ells/pedoira were all star caliber. Ells is an elite lead off, lester has been a top 15 pitcher who has pitched like freaking koufax in october and pedroia has been league MVP.

Also, Just because i'd be hard pressed to trade Owens or Betts doesn't mean i'd run the team like KC. You can keep your blue chips while gobbling up talent in other ways outside of trading those blue chips...Like the '07 sox did.

Swihart/Barns etc won't get you stanton..but those types of prospects can get good talent back. Those guys are STILL those top 100 guys who can help the team through trades.




As for wOBA and OPS+ they both factor OBP as more important than SLG. But both stats really only make production hitters look good. For the top 2 guys in the order, OBP is key, and SLG is not. Those two stats actually tend to devalue good OBP, and meh SLG hitters. But 3-6 or 3-7? Those stats are key, very key. 8 and 9 you get what you get, maybe a good SLG catcher with awful OBP at #8. Maybe a kid with an OK OBP at #9. The point is OBP on top and OBP/SLG in the middle 1/3 if not 5/9's of the order. That's how good offensive teams are built - in particular if the D is average, and the pitching unknown.

Cecchini looks in part of a solid #2 and Mookie could very well be an answer to the leadoff question. XB doesn't profile as a current #3-#4 but in due time? its probable.

RedSoxtober
05-05-2014, 01:34 PM
Though he allowed a season-high seven hits (five singles, two doubles) and was charged with two runs, Allen Webster had arguably his most impressive start of the season. He logged 6 2/3 innings the second-longest start of his year-plus in the Red Sox organization and for the first time this year, he combined the ability to get groundballs (he recorded eight outs on the ground) with the ability to get swings and misses. He punched out a season-high six and (according to GameDay data) got 15 swings and misses.

Prior to Sunday, Webster had struck out just 17 while walking 15. However, that decrease in his strikeout rate in part reflected a conscious effort to emphasize his two-seam fastball to get groundballs instead of trying to avoid contact.

Im throwing a lot more two-seamers this year, focusing on that. Its still a work in progress, but I feel comfortable [with it], Webster explained last week. Im just trying to force contact and get quick outs. Im not getting as many strikeouts as Id like, but Im getting outs, so I cant complain. An outs an out. Im trying to go deeper in games.

On that front, in some ways, this year already has shown signs of success, as the 24-year-old has pitched at least six innings in four of his seven starts, including each of his last three. Last year, he had just six outings among his 21 starts in which he recorded at least six innings, and he never accomplished that feat in more than two straight starts.weei.com

Station 13
05-05-2014, 07:17 PM
Mookie already 1-1 and a walk in there.

61 games now he has reach.

RedSoxtober
05-06-2014, 10:06 AM
The Eastern League of Professional Baseball Clubs has selected Portland Sea Dogs right-handed pitcher Mike McCarthy as the Eastern League Pitcher of the Week for the week of April 28th through May 4th.

In two starts during the week, McCarthy posted a 2-0 record with a 0.00 ERA and eight strikeouts over 12 innings. In his first outing of the week on April 28th, McCarthy fired six shutout innings, yielding just three hits and did not walk a batter as he retired 18 of the 21 batters to earn the win as the Sea Dogs defeated the Reading Fightin Phils 8-6. On Sunday, May 4th he struck out a season high six batters over six innings yielding five hits and one unearned run to the Binghamton Mets as the Sea Dogs defeated the Mets 4-1. The 26-year old tied for the league lead in wins (2) and ERA (0.00) last week.

On the season, McCarthy has appeared in six games (five starts) for the Sea Dogs notching a 2-2 record with a 4.73 ERA. The Brentwood, California resident was drafted by the Red Sox in the 14th round of the 2011 June Draft.

McCarthy is the second Sea Dogs pitcher to earn pitcher of the week honors this season, joining Henry Owens who earned the honor for the opening week of the 2014 season.


Mike McCarthy's Pitching Line for the period of April 28-May 4, 2014
G W L SV IP H R ER K BB ERA
2 2 0 0 12.0 8 1 0 8 2 0.00

Mike McCarthy's Pitching Line for the 2014 Season
G W L SV IP H R ER K BB ERA
6 2 2 0 26.2 32 15 14 18 6 4.73milb.com

RedSoxtober
05-06-2014, 10:18 AM
Mookie already 1-1 and a walk in there.

61 games now he has reach.

Finished 2/3 with an RBI and two walks. Marrero (2/4, 4RBI, .286/.375/.425 season) and Shaw (1/3, BB, .313/.414/.525 season) with HR. Interesting note -- Shaw was playing 3B.

Lavarnway has 4-2Bs in his last seven games. Maybe he's finding his power stroke.

Ranaudo with another uneven start. 5IP, 3ER, 3H, 4BB, 2K.

Teddy Stankiewicz struck out 7 in 6IP (10H, 0BB) in a 13-3 win for the Drive

RedSoxtober
05-06-2014, 10:45 AM
Rizzo through 30 games:


Age PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
24 131 106 19 31 2 1 6 16 1 1 22 20 .292 .420 .500 .920 150 53 0 2 0 1 2


:sigh:

Station 13
05-06-2014, 12:10 PM
Surprising thing is Rizzo is only 24. Same age as Bradley.

JMP83
05-06-2014, 01:46 PM
Red Sox expected to blow past their International Signing Bonus pool this summer, targeting mostly pitching.

Article is behind Paywall at BA (Link (http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/july-2-preview-four-teams-expected-to-exceed-international-bonus-pools/)) but here's a snippet about the Sox:


The Red Sox are considered the favorites to sign 16-year-old Venezuelan righthander Andres Espinoza (video), who some scouts consider the No. 1 pitcher available this year and will likely fetch the highest bonus among July 2 pitchers. Like Dominican righthander Marcos Diplan, who signed with the Rangers for $1.3 million last year, Espinoza has big-time stuff packed into a smaller frame.

Also mentions us in on Dominican RHP Christopher Acosta