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View Full Version : Game 27 (TOR v. NYK) Dec 27: Raps Looking to Crawl one step closer to .500 in NY



Mile High Champ
12-27-2013, 06:18 PM
(9-19)http://www.rotoworld.com/img/NBA/teams/logos/NY.png..............http://www.rotoworld.com/img/NBA/teams/logos/TOR.png(11-15)
NEW YORK KNICKS (http://www.nba.com/knicks/index_main.html) v. TORONTO RAPTORS (www.torontoraptors.com)

NBA Game Overview (http://www.nba.com/games/20131227/TORNYK/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0021000079)
ESPN Preview (http://espn.go.com/nba/preview?id=400489303)


Date: December 27 2013
Time: 7:30 PM
Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, NY
TV:TSN2

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUPS: (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/depth)


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-frukEhmC_-o/T5YCIf-HWvI/AAAAAAAAAKI/HCwOE7RXJfA/s1600/madison-square-garden-1.jpg

Game PREVIEW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT-bVjT5LuY


http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nba/logos/90x90/NY.png
PG...........SG..........SF..........PF........... C
http://static.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/3845.jpg http://static.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/3835.jpg http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/4898.jpg http://static.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/4129.jpg http://static.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/3512.jpg
UDRIH (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/beno_udrih/)----SMITH (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jr_smith/index.html)----SHUMPERT (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/iman_shumpert/)----BARGNANI (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/index.html)----CHANDLER (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tyson_chandler/index.html)


http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nba/logos/90x90/TOR.png
PG...........SG..........SF..........PF........... C
http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/4152.jpg http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/4614.jpg http://static.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/5014.jpg http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/3982.jpg http://static.foxsports.com/fe/images/NBA/Headshots/140x170/4886.jpg
LOWRY (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kyle_lowry/index.html)----DEROZAN (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/index.html)----ROSS (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/terrence_ross/index.html)----JOHNSON (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/amir_johnson/index.html)----VALANCIUNAS (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jonas_valanciunas/)


STATS:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8213/raptors.gif (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=tor)...............http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9448/knicks.gif (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=nyk)


Key Match UP

http://www.citynews.ca/files/2013/10/raps-473x315.jpg
ANDREA BARGNANI v. AMIR JOHNSON

MHC TAKE:


Still to come



http://i37.tinypic.com/1zezihc.png

Jays Claw
12-27-2013, 06:28 PM
Knicks will be w/o Felton and maybe Melo... Raps should take 'em.

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 07:27 PM
Knicks will be w/o Felton and maybe Melo... Raps should take 'em.

yep just seen on twitter via thescore, Melo will mis 2nd straight game... i predict bargs havin a good game but a W for us hopefully. hope lowry continues to play like he has and Dero and Ross have a good game as well

BHF
12-27-2013, 08:47 PM
Devlin having a hard time pronouncing names today lol he cant say Bargnani or Kenyon Martin.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 08:49 PM
Ugly game so far.

BHF
12-27-2013, 08:52 PM
Derozan ****ing sucks

phantasyyy
12-27-2013, 08:53 PM
anybody have a good link?

Tmath
12-27-2013, 09:01 PM
Well.. the good thing is, we can't possibly play any worse...

nycericanguy
12-27-2013, 09:01 PM
Knicks will be w/o Felton and maybe Melo... Raps should take 'em.

W/O

Felton
Melo
MWP
Pablo

=(

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:03 PM
Bargs is like fu i can rebound i just didn't want to in Toronto lol

spreadeagle
12-27-2013, 09:08 PM
Psycho T gave Bargnani that work lol

North Yorker
12-27-2013, 09:08 PM
lol

Tmath
12-27-2013, 09:14 PM
Salmons plays some good D

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:16 PM
We are not even playing bad we just cant make a shot.

North Yorker
12-27-2013, 09:19 PM
We are not even playing bad we just cant make a shot.

No we are playing terrible. Terrible passes, turnovers, missed free throws, giving up offensive rebounds to Bargs of all people, DeRozan is still in his shooting slump.

Only Lowry is playing good.

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:26 PM
No we are playing terrible. Terrible passes, turnovers, missed free throws, giving up offensive rebounds to Bargs of all people, DeRozan is still in his shooting slump.

Only Lowry is playing good.

I was talking about the bench in the last 5 minutes but i agree we did play terrible before that. The reason Dero is in a shooting slump is because he takes stupid shots.

gwrighter
12-27-2013, 09:29 PM
How is JV playing?

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:33 PM
How is JV playing?

he is doing alright he got blocked a couple of times needs to go stronger to the basket.

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 09:33 PM
All I want for x-mas is 4 the raps to beat the Knicks these next 2 gms

Leach11
12-27-2013, 09:35 PM
I was talking about the bench in the last 5 minutes but i agree we did play terrible before that. The reason Dero is in a shooting slump is because he takes stupid shots.

He takes some stupid shots like virtually every other SG, but his shot selection has improved a ton.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 09:36 PM
Everyone has butter fingers tonight.

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:37 PM
He takes some stupid shots like virtually every other player, but his shot selection has improved a ton.

no it got worse since he got more confidence

deaner
12-27-2013, 09:38 PM
I just don't see the raps losing this game. They are just so much deeper than the Knicks. Raps would have to play horrible for 40 minutes to lose.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 09:38 PM
Bargnani with 9 rebounds lol. Going for a career high.

Leach11
12-27-2013, 09:38 PM
Derozan ****ing sucks

People who post **** like this 6 minutes into a game are pointless to have any discussion with. Blind hate, that's all it is. Funny thing is, he's playing pretty well this game.

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:39 PM
Bargs 14 and 9 in one half :speechless:

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:41 PM
People who post **** like this 6 minutes into a game are pointless to have any discussion with. Blind hate, that's all it is. Funny thing is, he's playing pretty well this game.

I don't hate on Dero i just don't ride his dick and call it like i see it, way to respond quarter and a half later lol

Tmath
12-27-2013, 09:42 PM
We are still going to win this game.

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:44 PM
We are still going to win this game.

Yeah we are a better team, Knicks need a miracle to win this game maybe they catch fire or we just play like ****.

Leach11
12-27-2013, 09:46 PM
I don't hate on Dero i just don't ride his dick and call it like i see it, way to respond quarter and a half later lol

I wasn't looking at the thread until a few minutes ago and noticed your utterly stupid post. You don't call it like you see it, you're a blind hater. Most of the Derozan detractors on this site can admit that he has vastly improved. Still has a long way to go, but he definitely doesn't "****ing suck." If he did, he wouldn't be drawing the interest that he is from around the league.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 09:48 PM
I wasn't looking at the thread until a few minutes ago and noticed your utterly stupid post. You don't call it like you see it, you're a blind hater. Most of the Derozan detractors on this site can admit that he has vastly improved. Still has a long way to go, but he definitely doesn't "****ing suck." If he did, he wouldn't be drawing the interest that he is from around the league.

Dude, who cares? its his opinion, get over it.

Leach11
12-27-2013, 09:50 PM
Dude, who cares? its his opinion, get over it.

And it's my opinion that someone who posts **** like that after 6 minutes into a game is being ridiculous.

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:54 PM
I wasn't looking at the thread until a few minutes ago and noticed your utterly stupid post. You don't call it like you see it, you're a blind hater. Most of the Derozan detractors on this site can admit that he has vastly improved. Still has a long way to go, but he definitely doesn't "****ing suck." If he did, he wouldn't be drawing the interest that he is from around the league.

And you felt like you should respond he could have gone 0-10 when i said he sucks before making any of these shots almost 2 quarters ago who is the stupid one?

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:56 PM
If you don't like what i post block me for **** sake, saying Dero sucks hurt you feelings somehow.

BHF
12-27-2013, 09:59 PM
lol every time i say something negative about Dero he goes on a run

Leach11
12-27-2013, 09:59 PM
And you felt like you should respond he could have gone 0-10 when i said he sucks before making any of these shots almost 2 quarters ago who is the stupid one?

I wasn't looking at the thread until long after you made that post, what is so hard to understand about that? The fact is, he didn't go 0-10. He went 3-6 with 10 points. His play showed why your post was ridiculous and I decided to call you out based on that. That's all. Btw, I wasn't inferring that you were stupid, just your post.

Leach11
12-27-2013, 10:04 PM
If you don't like what i post block me for **** sake, saying Dero sucks hurt you feelings somehow.

Why would I block you for saying something I find to be stupid? People say stupid **** all the time. The same people also make intelligent comments. It would be childish to block you based off a singular comment that you made. Anyways, I'll drop it.

BHF
12-27-2013, 10:05 PM
I wasn't looking at the thread until long after you made that post, what is so hard to understand about that? The fact is, he didn't go 0-10. He went 3-6 with 10 points. His play showed why your post was ridiculous and I decided to call you out based on that. That's all. Btw, I wasn't inferring that you were stupid, just your post.

Why respond to it 20 minutes later if you don't know what i was talking about, yes he didn't go 0-10 but he turned the ball over and kept running in to traps pump faking and also holding on to the ball for to long. So when i said Dero sucks he did suck it has nothing to do with hate.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 10:07 PM
Hardaway can't miss. Everything going right for the Knicks. Raps are playing like trash.

BHF
12-27-2013, 10:08 PM
Who does Val remind you of? Before he joined the league people said he was like Chandler with better post moves, but obviously he is nothing like that.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 10:15 PM
Who does Val remind you of? Before he joined the league people said he was like Chandler with better post moves, but obviously he is nothing like that.

Can't really think of a comparison.

mjt20mik
12-27-2013, 10:16 PM
Vasquez is so slow lol

BHF
12-27-2013, 10:17 PM
Can't really think of a comparison.

yeah that's why i was asking because i cant think of anyone myself

deaner
12-27-2013, 10:17 PM
I'm not watching... Where has Amir been?

BHF
12-27-2013, 10:21 PM
Vasquez like Rubio great court vision but cant make a shot to save his life.

phantasyyy
12-27-2013, 10:21 PM
Vasquez like Rubio great court vision but cant make a shot to save his life.

in that sense he IS rubio :D

ink
12-27-2013, 10:23 PM
Let's be honest here: neither of these teams are especially good.

BHF
12-27-2013, 10:25 PM
Let's be honest here: neither of these teams are especially good.

agree

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 10:25 PM
Let's be honest here: neither of these teams are especially good.

whatch u mean WE DA BEST

BHF
12-27-2013, 10:33 PM
I am confused Bargs with hustle plays and rebounding

Raps08-09 Champ
12-27-2013, 10:37 PM
Not watching but how are we letting them shoot almost 60% from 3?

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 10:38 PM
whatch u mean WE DA BEST
u right bro

Tmath
12-27-2013, 10:43 PM
Not watching but how are we letting them shoot almost 60% from 3?

Hardaway JR playing out of his mind.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 10:44 PM
I am confused Bargs with hustle plays and rebounding

He has one of these games once a season, it so happens to be tonight.

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 10:45 PM
im scared that bargs will hit a buzzer beater tonight if it gets close... called it btw

deaner
12-27-2013, 10:47 PM
im scared that bargs will hit a buzzer beater tonight if it gets close... called it btw
Meh. He's one of two player that shoot.

pulzar
12-27-2013, 10:48 PM
im scared that bargs will hit a buzzer beater tonight if it gets close... called it btw

We know Bargnani will shoot it at the buzzer whether he needs to or not ;).

Tmath
12-27-2013, 10:49 PM
Amir!!!

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 10:51 PM
u right bro

i agree

deaner
12-27-2013, 10:52 PM
Team needs Amir. We got this.

LanceUpperCut
12-27-2013, 10:52 PM
This is a team were you really never fell out of a game now. We played like **** for a while but I knew we would be in control in the end something I haven't said of a raps team in a while. Lowry is a huge part of that

LanceUpperCut
12-27-2013, 10:53 PM
Jonas really coming into his own since the Rudy trade.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 10:53 PM
Atta boy Val.

MrSoFreshSoClea
12-27-2013, 10:55 PM
No more tanking, doesn't look like tanking is coming our way. THANK GOD!

Raps08-09 Champ
12-27-2013, 10:57 PM
Wow, Jonas got 17 rebounds. Thought he would've had trouble with Chandler.

deaner
12-27-2013, 10:58 PM
Is Val dominating Chandler as much as their lines tell?

phantasyyy
12-27-2013, 10:58 PM
No more tanking, doesn't look like tanking is coming our way. THANK GOD!

could never really understand how you can root for your team to lose anyway.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 10:58 PM
Very impressed with Salmons D.

North Yorker
12-27-2013, 10:59 PM
Guys are playing great but keep in mind this is a 9-19 Knicks team without Melo and Felton.

It's sad that we may be the 3rd best team in the East now.

North Yorker
12-27-2013, 11:01 PM
Jonas could've had a 20/20 game if he got off to a faster start.

pulzar
12-27-2013, 11:02 PM
It's sad that we may be the 3rd best team in the East now.

And we'd be the 3rd worst team in the West.

MrSoFreshSoClea
12-27-2013, 11:03 PM
Me either, but some people just want to have a nice 5 year rebuild process, which is a tad to long in my opinion...

bucketss
12-27-2013, 11:06 PM
29-12 knicks are back!!!! :laugh:

GameBreaker
12-27-2013, 11:06 PM
The Armor Piercing Bombs still blowing up ALL tanks!!! #TankBusterArmor #GoRaps #TanksForSkanks #LOL

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 11:06 PM
Guys are playing great but keep in mind this is a 9-19 Knicks team without Melo and Felton.

It's sad that we may be the 3rd best team in the East now.

yea i think we lose if melo played esp. with the slow/sloppy start we had but as a team and system i think we're ahead of the knicks atm

MrSoFreshSoClea
12-27-2013, 11:08 PM
more like the knicks would've lost by 20 if Melo played, he would have stop any of the knicks ball movement..

Tmath
12-27-2013, 11:11 PM
more like the knicks would've lost by 20 if Melo played, he would have stop any of the knicks ball movement..

This. Knicks had some nice ball movement tonight.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 11:12 PM
Looks like Bradley Beal just had a bad injury. That sucks, I like his game.

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 11:14 PM
more like the knicks would've lost by 20 if Melo played, he would have stop any of the knicks ball movement..

tru but then again he does have that ability to take over games single-handedly

Tmath
12-27-2013, 11:17 PM
tru but then again he does have that ability to take over games single-handedly

We own the Knicks in recent history with or without Melo.

ink
12-27-2013, 11:17 PM
It's sad that we may be the 3rd best team in the East now.

And we'd be the 3rd worst team in the West.

Says it all.

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 11:19 PM
it always feels good to beat the knicks. i don't know which is more satisfying the raps W or knicks L strangely enough i think its the latter

deaner
12-27-2013, 11:21 PM
it always feels good to beat the knicks. i don't know which is more satisfying the raps W or knicks L strangely enough i think its the latter

I would agree. I love to see them implode.

bucketss
12-27-2013, 11:23 PM
watch us lose to them tomorrow even without melo :laugh2:

mjt20mik
12-27-2013, 11:25 PM
As i basically grew up in NYC, it kinda hurts me to see that team perform the way they are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the Raps won, but its just sad to see the situation they are in.

Tmath
12-27-2013, 11:30 PM
As i basically grew up in NYC, it kinda hurts me to see that team perform the way they are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the Raps won, but its just sad to see the situation they are in.

I feel the complete opposite. Seeing the Knicks lose brings a big smile to my face. :D

bucketss
12-27-2013, 11:38 PM
bargnani is just cursed.

Kinglorious
12-27-2013, 11:38 PM
As i basically grew up in NYC, it kinda hurts me to see that team perform the way they are. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the Raps won, but its just sad to see the situation they are in.

I've always kind of liked the Knicks. Unless they're playing the Raptors or Warriors, I cheer for them. Guess that just comes from me loving New York City since I was a kid. It's better for the league if the Knicks are a good team. I don't know what to say about them right now. They're in terrible shape.

Abdul Mutalib
12-27-2013, 11:43 PM
I've always kind of liked the Knicks. Unless they're playing the Raptors or Warriors, I cheer for them. Guess that just comes from me loving New York City since I was a kid. It's better for the league if the Knicks are a good team. I don't know what to say about them right now. They're in terrible shape.

:eyebrow:

gwrighter
12-27-2013, 11:45 PM
It always feels good beating the knicks. We've had their number for the last decade, one of the only teams we can say we've played well against in the history of our franchise.

Jays Claw
12-27-2013, 11:45 PM
Great game to watch... loving the defense this team plays.

On a side note, the Knicks forum is kind of depressing and funny at the same time. Poor fans. BUT at the same time they deserve it after all the **** they talked with Lin's game-winner. Hope for the best Knicks fans. :laugh2:

Kinglorious
12-27-2013, 11:47 PM
:eyebrow:

I'm for real, I like the Knicks. I like it better when the Raptors beat them though lol.

North Yorker
12-27-2013, 11:48 PM
Well on the anti-tanking bright side, we should be able to trade for some upgrades relatively cheaply with the amount of sellers in the market.

DaoudS
12-27-2013, 11:49 PM
I don't know this team.....

North Yorker
12-27-2013, 11:51 PM
I don't know this team.....

Raps08-09 said they're a tease, and I agree. I mostly blame the East though for putting us in this situation.

DJYankee
12-27-2013, 11:52 PM
I'm more interested in the Yankees off-season than this crap I been watching.

DaoudS
12-27-2013, 11:53 PM
Raps08-09 said they're a tease, and I agree. I mostly blame the East though for putting us in this situation.

Sneaky tanks, all of 'em!

T-O-R-O-N-T-O
12-27-2013, 11:57 PM
Val exploded!! Great energy hes bringing

Abdul Mutalib
12-28-2013, 12:02 AM
Great game to watch... loving the defense this team plays.

On a side note, the Knicks forum is kind of depressing and funny at the same time. Poor fans. BUT at the same time they deserve it after all the **** they talked with Lin's game-winner. Hope for the best Knicks fans. :laugh2:

in many ways knicks fans and raps fans are one in the same. we tend over-estimate our teams when we're winning and complete shyt on on them when we're losing

BHF
12-28-2013, 12:19 AM
Val would thrive with a stretch 4 like Bargs wow can you just imagine how good he would be? He would dominate and be the best center in the nba for the next 10 years. :)

dtmagnet
12-28-2013, 12:56 AM
Good win, hope we can start a little win streak now.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-28-2013, 01:57 AM
This team has prime opportunity to take advantage of being 3rd seed in a few weeks with injuries to the Hawks. I am on tank nation this season but I don't mind winning games if this team is going to separate itself from the rest of the pack (and show they can do it in the future as well). Either wins a lot more games or lose a lot more games. I'm tired of seeing this team go like 5 and 5 or 4 and 6 their last 10 games and we don't go anywhere in the rankings.

FriedTofuz
12-28-2013, 02:06 AM
can we go back to losing. IN all honestly, I think Id prefer to suck for another 4 months, and get a franchise like player in the draft, because going forward, that would make this team better, and we currently dont have a franchise player on this team at the moment.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-28-2013, 02:11 AM
can we go back to losing. IN all honestly, I think Id prefer to suck for another 4 months, and get a franchise like player in the draft, because going forward, that would make this team better, and we currently dont have a franchise player on this team at the moment.

Yea, this is how I feel right now. If Jonas or Ross was more of a sure thing as an all star (for a few years), I'd be pushing playoffs. We don't have that so some people have cold feet about wanting the playoffs.

bucketss
12-28-2013, 02:14 AM
well there is still a possibility we can get a star with our teens pick

FriedTofuz
12-28-2013, 02:19 AM
Yea, this is how I feel right now. If Jonas or Ross was more of a sure thing as an all star (for a few years), I'd be pushing playoffs. We don't have that so some people have cold feet about wanting the playoffs.

JVAL in his prime seems like a 15/10 scorer, if we're lucky, 18/10..but we need at least one player who can put his team on his back and come through. It would suck to lose demar/ lowry, but I think at this point, we'd have to trade both, or ( I hate to say it) or one gets injured for the rest of the season, so we can tank. Atlanta is primed for a very good future in the nba.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-28-2013, 02:20 AM
well there is still a possibility we can get a star with our teens pick

Yea, I was thinking about that since I have faith in Masai when it comes to drafting. But you aren't really playing the odds when you do that. This draft is deep so there might be some great gem out there in the teens/twenties like a Rondo (21st), Hibbert (17), Kawhi (15th), Faried (22), Holliday, (17), Lawson (18) but it'd rely a lot on other teams passing up on them and the player actually working out (high risk in that case).

bucketss
12-28-2013, 02:21 AM
JVAL in his prime seems like a 15/10 scorer, if we're lucky, 18/10..but we need at least one player who can put his team on his back and come through. It would suck to lose demar/ lowry, but I think at this point, we'd have to trade both, or ( I hate to say it) or one gets injured for the rest of the season, so we can tank. Atlanta is primed for a very good future in the nba.

this post is so depressing.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-28-2013, 02:22 AM
JVAL in his prime seems like a 15/10 scorer, if we're lucky, 18/10..but we need at least one player who can put his team on his back and come through. It would suck to lose demar/ lowry, but I think at this point, we'd have to trade both, or ( I hate to say it) or one gets injured for the rest of the season, so we can tank. Atlanta is primed for a very good future in the nba.

His offense has been better than what I expected when he fight came out so I think he can get high teens/low 20's scoring. But as for carrying on back, I am not sure about that.

Yea we will definitely trade Lowry this season. Demar is a mystery since Masai doesn't reveal anything. I can see him being kept, traded this year or draft at the draft.

bucketss
12-28-2013, 02:29 AM
if we keep winning i don't think lowry will be traded , i feel that will put us at "no mans" land. probably a 9th seed, atleast lowry can give us a playoff birth.

bucketss
12-28-2013, 02:42 AM
Derozan might be an all star this year Lollll

FriedTofuz
12-28-2013, 03:46 AM
I remember when the raptors had the 5th seed mid year after their win against miami when Antoine wright made that huge 3, and then the raptors ended up in 9th place because

1. bosh missed a layup against Golden state
2. bosh apparently checked out after he was cleared for play but rested up a bit longer.

So even if we're in the 4th seed, we could very much end up being a " no mans land" team :/

Wax_da_workman
12-28-2013, 04:11 AM
U guys seem to forget if we win the atlantic we get atleast 4. Then its record between the division winners in terms of playoff seeding.

Hyppothetical

We stand pat. Win division and then get putted against.....bobcats....philly....who are u really scared of over 7 games. BESIDES INDY AND MIA. We can win a round maybe two if the matchups are good.

ink
12-28-2013, 04:13 AM
Watching the game on pvr and shocked how bad the Knicks are. They are in worse shape than they were in Isiah's years.

ink
12-28-2013, 04:16 AM
U guys seem to forget if we win the atlantic we get atleast 4. Then its record between the division winners in terms of playoff seeding.

Hyppothetical

We stand pat. Win division and then get putted against.....bobcats....philly....who are u really scared of over 7 games. BESIDES INDY AND MIA. We can win a round maybe two if the matchups are good.

I am not sure why that matters. You want quasi success for one season?

Please explain how success in a god-awful conference is any measure if success.

BALLER R
12-28-2013, 06:59 AM
Lets say we make the playoff and face Miami or Indy in the 2nd round. We then push them to game 6 or 7 but lose. Would you not call this season a huge success?

DaoudS
12-28-2013, 08:54 AM
Lets say we make the playoff and face Miami or Indy in the 2nd round. We then push them to game 6 or 7 but lose. Would you not call this season a huge success?

I really think this current team could push the Pacers to six, maybe seven games.

LanceUpperCut
12-28-2013, 09:20 AM
U guys seem to forget if we win the atlantic we get atleast 4. Then its record between the division winners in terms of playoff seeding.

Hyppothetical

We stand pat. Win division and then get putted against.....bobcats....philly....who are u really scared of over 7 games. BESIDES INDY AND MIA. We can win a round maybe two if the matchups are good.

I am not sure why that matters. You want quasi success for one season?

Please explain how success in a god-awful conference is any measure if success.

Just wondering why you say one season? The Raps are probably in the best position to rule the Atlantic for the next 3+ years since we enter the league.
We are a young team with are best players just starting to scratch the surface of their potential and having all the bad contracts gone next season. If it wasn't for this ridiculously over hyped draft we would love the position were in

gwrighter
12-28-2013, 09:40 AM
Lets say we make the playoff and face Miami or Indy in the 2nd round. We then push them to game 6 or 7 but lose. Would you not call this season a huge success?

Hell to the yeah. The experience they would gain is invaluable. Our guys need to feel that pressure, it would be good for their development as players.

gwrighter
12-28-2013, 09:46 AM
I am not sure why that matters. You want quasi success for one season?

Please explain how success in a god-awful conference is any measure if success.

If winning the Atlantic division includes winning in Dallas & OKC on the road then there is merit to that success. Raps have been playing fairly decent over the last little bit and have had literally the hardest schedule in the league to start the season (Tied with some other teams).

North Yorker
12-28-2013, 09:48 AM
Lets say we make the playoff and face Miami or Indy in the 2nd round. We then push them to game 6 or 7 but lose. Would you not call this season a huge success?

It would be a success in the sense that this team would've reached its ceiling and we got the most out of the roster. But nobody has the goal of being the 3rd best team in the conference. Nobody should be striving to be the Atlanta Hawks.

BALLER R
12-28-2013, 10:06 AM
I think we have the perfect supporting cast of a roster. People that want to tank don't realize you would have to break that up in order to do so.

gwrighter
12-28-2013, 10:07 AM
I think we have the perfect supporting cast of a roster. People that want to tank don't realize you would have to break that up in order to do so.

A bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Heediot
12-28-2013, 10:09 AM
JVAL in his prime seems like a 15/10 scorer, if we're lucky, 18/10..but we need at least one player who can put his team on his back and come through. It would suck to lose demar/ lowry, but I think at this point, we'd have to trade both, or ( I hate to say it) or one gets injured for the rest of the season, so we can tank. Atlanta is primed for a very good future in the nba.

True Centers peak later and develop slower then any other position. I think he can be a 19-21 PPG guy with Above Average D.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 11:44 AM
I think we have the perfect supporting cast of a roster. People that want to tank don't realize you would have to break that up in order to do so.

now where are we going with this supporting cast? break up what? a .500 team? you will need a few stars to even compete in this league, especially in the playoffs. One more high lottery pick from this draft would probably seal the deal for the next decade. it so happens that a few generational players are in this draft. this could be a franchise saving lottery.

can't you see that?

B2B
12-28-2013, 11:48 AM
It would be a success in the sense that this team would've reached its ceiling and we got the most out of the roster. But nobody has the goal of being the 3rd best team in the conference. Nobody should be striving to be the Atlanta Hawks.

Reached it's ceiling with 3 starters under the age of 24, (21yo Centre) with Masai drafting/trading for future picks & cap situation clearing?.

A second round push of Miami/Pacers can't be seen as anything but success/progression all things considered.

Would you not prefer a 2nd round showing, than to be in the Cavs situation with 2 1st's, 4 top five picks heading for another tank season because they failed to progress. For young players/picks to be successful the team has to show progress. Raptors 3 core starters are under 24 & Amir is only 26.

How old, how long will Wade/Allen/Battier & West be factors?.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 11:51 AM
JVAL in his prime seems like a 15/10 scorer, if we're lucky, 18/10..but we need at least one player who can put his team on his back and come through. It would suck to lose demar/ lowry, but I think at this point, we'd have to trade both, or ( I hate to say it) or one gets injured for the rest of the season, so we can tank. Atlanta is primed for a very good future in the nba.

man, good thing I am more optimistic about JVal than you lol. I say he is a 20+/11 type of player. He's overthinking a lot of his offensive moves this year than last year. Last year he would just settle for that jumper from 15feet. this year he is more relunctant to take that shot.

Once he settles in his 4th and 5th year - we will see the potential JVal has. He's only 21 years old for crying out loud LOL. Even better, wait till he's 25 -27 years old. He's gonna get more skilled, bigger, more assertive in the next few years and its only going to get easier for him.

of course, once we get a better coach or Casey develops into a great coach, he will make better plays for JVal.

B2B
12-28-2013, 11:54 AM
now where are we going with this supporting cast? break up what? a .500 team? you will need a few stars to even compete in this league, especially in the playoffs. One more high lottery pick from this draft would probably seal the deal for the next decade. it so happens that a few generational players are in this draft. this could be a franchise saving lottery.

can't you see that?

Who IYO are the generational players?

I see the benefit of another top pick,

Tell me, what else could happen?.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 11:55 AM
Reached it's ceiling with 3 starters under the age of 24, (21yo Centre) with Masai drafting/trading for future picks & cap situation clearing?.

A second round push of Miami/Pacers can't be seen as anything but success/progression all things considered.

Would you not prefer a 2nd round showing, than to be in the Cavs situation with 2 1st's, 4 top five picks heading for another tank season because they failed to progress. For young players/picks to be successful the team has to show progress. Raptors 3 core starters are under 24 & Amir is only 26.

How old, how long will Wade/Allen/Battier & West be factors?.

honestly, i rather be in Cleveland's position lol. Of course, thats just pure horrible management by taking Bennet instead of Oladipo or MCW. and JVal. but with a Jabari Parker in that system, future is super bright.

Irving, Jabari, Waiters is pretty solid.

Imagine if that was the Toronto Raptors instead? and we held on to JVal?

ink
12-28-2013, 11:59 AM
I think we have the perfect supporting cast of a roster. People that want to tank don't realize you would have to break that up in order to do so.

If they don't they haven't given much thought to a rebuild.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 12:00 PM
Who IYO are the generational players?

I see the benefit of another top pick,

Tell me, what else could happen?.

the top 4 are generational players I believe. and I mean franchise altering players. I mean Carmelo, Durant, PG, et al are "generational" players but haven't won anything but are top tier players in their own regard in their generation.

its not just any top pick. its a top pick from this draft.

in the next 4-5 years, who knows. the East is so weak. will there be a sway in terms of talent to the East b/c there is obviously an imbalance of talent in the league. or all the top managers in the West? lol But all I know, Raptors aren't winning **** with middling talent.

B2B
12-28-2013, 12:06 PM
honestly, i rather be in Cleveland's position lol. Of course, thats just pure horrible management by taking Bennet instead of Oladipo or MCW. and JVal. but with a Jabari Parker in that system, future is super bright.

Irving, Jabari, Waiters is pretty solid.

Imagine if that was the Toronto Raptors instead? and we held on to JVal?

Irving is coming up for extension & the team has not shown it can do anything but tank.

You have already assumed Parker would lift them to new heights, which is not always the case. A poster here was telling me how great Bennet would be not to long ago.

Everything comes down to putting together good decisions no matter the path taken.

B2B
12-28-2013, 12:13 PM
the top 4 are generational players I believe. and I mean franchise altering players. I mean Carmelo, Durant, PG, et al are "generational" players but haven't won anything but are top tier players in their own regard in their generation.

its not just any top pick. its a top pick from this draft.

in the next 4-5 years, who knows. the East is so weak. will there be a sway in terms of talent to the East b/c there is obviously an imbalance of talent in the league. or all the top managers in the West? lol But all I know, Raptors aren't winning **** with middling talent.

I have a different idea of what a generational talent is.

What do you think people were saying about the Pacers when they won 33 wins with George as a #10 pick 2ys ago. They signed the ageing West, 2ys later everyone is talking about how legit they are & how to land the next PG.

Skip the middle progression, tank to championship.

ink
12-28-2013, 12:31 PM
Not saying they can't do it, but they haven't won anything yet.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 12:31 PM
I have a different idea of what a generational talent is.

What do you think people were saying about the Pacers when they won 33 wins with George as a #10 pick 2ys ago. They signed the ageing West, 2ys later everyone is talking about how legit they are & how to land the next PG.

Skip the middle progression, tank to championship.

gotcha. I usually say once-in-a-lifetime player for a player like Jordan or Lebron

last time i checked, #10 is still a lottery pick. at the rate we're going, we're not getting there.

plus. 9 other teams got it wrong - thats what I would be saying. LOL saddest thing is that could be a possibility we win 33 games and we still get first in the Atlantic LOL =P

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 12:35 PM
Irving is coming up for extension & the team has not shown it can do anything but tank.

You have already assumed Parker would lift them to new heights, which is not always the case. A poster here was telling me how great Bennet would be not to long ago.

Everything comes down to putting together good decisions no matter the path taken.

TBH, it has to do more with player management and upper management in general. coaching has been shoddy. but that can happen to you if a player like Lebron left and upper management is still pretty salty over that. i.e. quick fixes like not drafting JVal and wanting the immediate "impact" player.

I dont think the Raptors upper management was that bad but hey, we haven't been relevant since Carter left.

B2B
12-28-2013, 12:40 PM
gotcha. I usually say once-in-a-lifetime player for a player like Jordan or Lebron

last time i checked, #10 is still a lottery pick. at the rate we're going, we're not getting there.

plus. 9 other teams got it wrong - thats what I would be saying. LOL saddest thing is that could be a possibility we win 33 games and we still get first in the Atlantic LOL =P

Pacers draft - Hibbert #17, George #10

Raptors draft - Jonas #5, Ross #8, Derozan #8


Hibbert age 27, Jonas age 21 -still on rookie scale.

Ross 22 still has potential to be good on both ends - still on rookie scale.

Derozan 24 has improved as a scorer & is still progressing, locked into a team friendly contract.

PG 23 has broken out as a player, heading for a max extension.

West is 30+, Amir 26 - improving as a starter

B2B
12-28-2013, 12:49 PM
TBH, it has to do more with player management and upper management in general. coaching has been shoddy. but that can happen to you if a player like Lebron left and upper management is still pretty salty over that. i.e. quick fixes like not drafting JVal and wanting the immediate "impact" player.

I dont think the Raptors upper management was that bad but hey, we haven't been relevant since Carter left.

IMO they did take a step back with Brown.

Cavs tanked 3ys with 4 top 5 picks, there was no quick fix. Only poor decisions leading to another potential tank year. They've had luck in draft position as well. Maybe one of these years they will luck into another Lebron & still not win a championship despite landing another quality player like him.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 12:59 PM
Pacers draft - Hibbert #17, George #10

Raptors draft - Jonas #5, Ross #8, Derozan #8


Hibbert age 27, Jonas age 21 -still on rookie scale.

Ross 22 still has potential to be good on both ends - still on rookie scale.

Derozan 24 has improved as a scorer & is still progressing, locked into a team friendly contract.

PG 23 has broken out as a player, heading for a max extension.

West is 30+, Amir 26 - improving as a starter

B2B, lets not kid ourselves now. just b/c players are younger doesn't mean we have the same coach either or equal management or scouting.

Even if things equal out in terms of players, They got Lance Stevenson, George Hill, a better coach, and the player development and scouting to take Hibbert at #17 - though at that point in the draft, whats not to like. (circa O'Neal trade)

scouting:
by the looks of it, Raps were wrong on drafting the players they have. Ross should have been Drummond and verdict is still out on JVal (could have been Klay Thompson, Kwahi Leonard, Vucevic, Tobias Harris, Faried, Jimmy Butler - wow this was a great draft of role players! Parson went second round as well) - still don't know what type of player JVal but I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 01:09 PM
IMO they did take a step back with Brown.

Cavs tanked 3ys with 4 top 5 picks, there was no quick fix. Only poor decisions leading to another potential tank year. They've had luck in draft position as well. Maybe one of these years they will luck into another Lebron & still not win a championship despite landing another quality player like him.

they are still performing as bad when Lebron was there. surrounding Irving with questionable talent and not being able to get to that next level as an upper management team of a championship aspiring team (i.e. Gilbert said they would win a championship before Lebron wins one)

B2B
12-28-2013, 01:33 PM
B2B, lets not kid ourselves now. just b/c players are younger doesn't mean we have the same coach either or equal management or scouting.

Even if things equal out in terms of players, They got Lance Stevenson, George Hill, a better coach, and the player development and scouting to take Hibbert at #17 - though at that point in the draft, whats not to like. (circa O'Neal trade)

scouting:
by the looks of it, Raps were wrong on drafting the players they have. Ross should have been Drummond and verdict is still out on JVal (could have been Klay Thompson, Kwahi Leonard, Vucevic, Tobias Harris, Faried, Jimmy Butler - wow this was a great draft of role players! Parson went second round as well) - still don't know what type of player JVal but I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

My post is not just about age, where do you view these players ceilings?.

If Raptors meet & push the Pacers in the 2nd round this year, the question posed.

You don't think that bolds well for a team featuring a 21yo centre, 22yo SG/SF who have not yet begun to tap their full potential?.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 01:47 PM
My post is not just about age, where do you view these players ceilings?.

If Raptors meet & push the Pacers in the 2nd round this year, the question posed.

You don't think that bolds well for a team featuring a 21yo centre, 22yo SG/SF who have not yet begun to tap their full potential?.

If they do it. I think they get swept by the Pacers in the playoffs. If the Raptors push the Pacers to 5 games, i'd be impressed.

Raptors are a grinding team, so anything could happen honestly. it has to do more with their resiliency shown in the post-Gay era than anything OR teams have been playing down to the Raptors level. can't really say.

ink
12-28-2013, 01:54 PM
The thread is way off topic. It's a game thread guys.

gwrighter
12-28-2013, 02:12 PM
TBH, it has to do more with player management and upper management in general. coaching has been shoddy. but that can happen to you if a player like Lebron left and upper management is still pretty salty over that. i.e. quick fixes like not drafting JVal and wanting the immediate "impact" player.

I dont think the Raptors upper management was that bad but hey, we haven't been relevant since Carter left.

If you assume our management is good then shouldn't their decision to not tank and develop players accordingly be the right decision?

GodsSon
12-28-2013, 02:26 PM
Didn't get to see the 2nd half of the game, but this team post-Gay is unbelievable.

I'm starting to lose all hope for the tank.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 02:27 PM
If you assume our management is good then shouldn't their decision to not tank and develop players accordingly be the right decision?

depends on how high they think these players will go. I'm not saying what I think is the ultimate right thing to do but I can believe that if we had one of the top picks this year, we'd be a better team in the long run. We're not losing anyone except Lowry unless MU resigns him (which I want to happen)

developing players and tanking can be two seperate things. i.e. if you take away Lowry, I don't think this team would be as good and we'd lose his edge as a leader. The right decision is to improve your team from a talent standpoint. The coach can only do so much if he has a limited amount of talent.

killersweet
12-28-2013, 06:55 PM
Didn't get to see the 2nd half of the game, but this team post-Gay is unbelievable.

I'm starting to lose all hope for the tank.

Hard to judge the team. Can they really keep this up?

Freakazoid
12-28-2013, 07:02 PM
Hard to judge the team. Can they really keep this up?

Probably. They're one of 4 teams in the NBA that have a positive differential. Point differential is highly correlated with season success. Golden State used it 2 seasons ago to determine the odds of making playoffs vs odds of receiving a lottery pick. They ended up with Harrison Barnes. IIRC, the Raptors have a weaker schedule for the second half of the season so as of now, I can't imagine their record getting any worse.

Sly Guy
12-28-2013, 09:19 PM
we're smoking them this game.....yikes, things are really off the tracks in NYC.

lajoie
12-29-2013, 01:35 PM
Probably. They're one of 4 teams in the NBA that have a positive differential. Point differential is highly correlated with season success. Golden State used it 2 seasons ago to determine the odds of making playoffs vs odds of receiving a lottery pick. They ended up with Harrison Barnes. IIRC, the Raptors have a weaker schedule for the second half of the season so as of now, I can't imagine their record getting any worse.

They are one of 4 teams in the East with a positive differential. Every contending team in the West has a positive differential

gwrighter
12-29-2013, 02:03 PM
depends on how high they think these players will go. I'm not saying what I think is the ultimate right thing to do but I can believe that if we had one of the top picks this year, we'd be a better team in the long run. We're not losing anyone except Lowry unless MU resigns him (which I want to happen)

developing players and tanking can be two seperate things. i.e. if you take away Lowry, I don't think this team would be as good and we'd lose his edge as a leader. The right decision is to improve your team from a talent standpoint. The coach can only do so much if he has a limited amount of talent.

It depends on what you need to give up to get a top pick in this draft. Masai looks to be backing off a selling position and may become a buyer. In any case, this team is too good to tank & only removing Lowry might not be enough.

Nick O
12-29-2013, 04:30 PM
can we go back to losing. IN all honestly, I think Id prefer to suck for another 4 months, and get a franchise like player in the draft, because going forward, that would make this team better, and we currently dont have a franchise player on this team at the moment.

god no. i would be disgusted if we went back to losing. i havnt had this much fun watching Raptor games in a long time. im actually enjoying watching them play. if we win the division we have a realisitic and good shot at the second round.

GodsSon
12-29-2013, 09:02 PM
Once Lowry is moved the tank will be back on track

Tmath
12-29-2013, 10:14 PM
Once Lowry is moved the tank will be back on track

You're hanging on to false hope man. Masai ain't tanking.

Masai is all about winning, and at the same time, gathering assets. If he wants, he can always try to trade up in the draft. But he isn't going to trade Lowry away just to make the team worse.

This team has a legitimate chance to make the playoffs as a top 4 seed. I doubt Masai will want to waste that opportunity. He will find away to keep improving this team without going backwards in the standings.

ink
12-29-2013, 10:17 PM
Once Lowry is moved the tank will be back on track

You're hanging on to false hope man. Masai ain't tanking.

Masai is all about winning, and at the same time, gathering assets. If he wants, he can always try to trade up in the draft. But he isn't going to trade Lowry away just to make the team worse.

This team has a legitimate chance to make the playoffs as a top 4 seed. I doubt Masai will want to waste that opportunity.

Dream bigger.

pulzar
12-29-2013, 10:25 PM
Dream bigger.

Ink, you don't have do be such a party pooper. ;)

We're not winning the championship this year, so dreaming of top 4 seed and 2nd round of playoffs is plenty big for this year. It doesn't mean we're not all dreaming of bigger things ahead.

Like he said, Masai can be gathering assets, possibly trading up in this or future drafts, we can financial flexibility and Knick's 1st rounder coming up... we're dreaming big for the future, we're just looking to get there a different way from yours.

ink
12-29-2013, 10:36 PM
Dream bigger.

Ink, you don't have do be such a party pooper. ;)

We're not winning the championship this year, so dreaming of top 4 seed and 2nd round of playoffs is plenty big for this year. It doesn't mean we're not all dreaming of bigger things ahead.

Like he said, Masai can be gathering assets, possibly trading up in this or future drafts, we can financial flexibility and Knick's 1st rounder coming up... we're dreaming big for the future, we're just looking to get there a different way from yours.

How is top4 seed in pro sports worst division plenty big???? IMO it's brutal that we consider that success. :shrug: hasn't anyone here ever cheered for a home team champion?

pulzar
12-29-2013, 10:47 PM
How is top4 seed in pro sports worst division plenty big???? IMO it's brutal that we consider that success. :shrug: hasn't anyone here ever cheered for a home team champion?

Well, first, it's top 4 in the conference not division.... we'd be #1 in the worst division. Get your dubious achievements straight ;).

My point is that it's plenty big for *this year*, as there is no chance in hell that we win the championship or get ahead of Pacers or Heat for the top 2 seeds. I mean, I can dream that I'll be riding a unicorn at the front of the Raptors parade, but what's the point?

It's some kind of success. If I accepted nothing but 1st place as success, I'd be living a life full of disappointment, with no satisfaction of overachieving, ever. If we're getting better, it's some success to me. If we're back in the playoffs, that's some success to me. And if it looks like the long term future is better than the best, that's also success to me.

The point is -- our long-term "dreams" are the same, you're just choosing to despair that we're "only" winning in a bad conference, and we'll "only" make the 2nd round of playoffs, while I choose to enjoy those achievements, however minor they are.

FriedTofuz
12-29-2013, 10:58 PM
The problem with raptor fans is, there's very little history of winning. The glimpses of success feel rewarding. However the reality is, you have to think of the longterm, not the short-term. Yes it's definitely less stressful seeing how well a team can play and succeed, but the inevitable is, they'll eventually struggle against elite company. Although they may be a playoff team for years to come, it would take a lot of tweaking to grind out JUST ONE CHAMPIONSHIP.

That's why I say, the long-term is the way to go. If they were to tank, acquire the pieces where they can be a legitimate contender every year ( like the spurs) or miami, or even OKC, then it would make more sense. I know we 've sucked for so long, so the glimpse of winning is appealing, but I think we should just endure a bit more losing, if it means putting together a stronger foundation. I love demar derozans game, I think he's going to get even better, but as an adult, I've learned to move on, through relationships and people, so It would suck seeing him go, same with Amir, but if trading them makes us a better team in the long-run, so be it. :/

This team needs to suck by trading Lowry + either Derozan/ Amir, and it can definitely tank.h

ink
12-29-2013, 11:03 PM
How is top4 seed in pro sports worst division plenty big???? IMO it's brutal that we consider that success. :shrug: hasn't anyone here ever cheered for a home team champion?

Well, first, it's top 4 in the conference not division.... we'd be #1 in the worst division. Get your dubious achievements straight ;).

My point is that it's plenty big for *this year*, as there is no chance in hell that we win the championship or get ahead of Pacers or Heat for the top 2 seeds. I mean, I can dream that I'll be riding a unicorn at the front of the Raptors parade, but what's the point?

It's some kind of success. If I accepted nothing but 1st place as success, I'd be living a life full of disappointment, with no satisfaction of overachieving, ever. If we're getting better, it's some success to me. If we're back in the playoffs, that's some success to me. And if it looks like the long term future is better than the best, that's also success to me.

The point is -- our long-term "dreams" are the same, you're just choosing to despair that we're "only" winning in a bad conference, and we'll "only" make the 2nd round of playoffs, while I choose to enjoy those achievements, however minor they are.

No it's more serious than that. Those "achievements" could easily block our ability to progress to any meaningful level. Ask any pretender franchise over the last few years.

btw other than MIA and IND the entire conference is weak, what's more, in real terms we are more like 5th or 6th and that isn't much to be excited about. I'm sorry but it isn't. :(

FriedTofuz
12-29-2013, 11:04 PM
People cannot rule out what Masai's intentions are. You cant say he's not tanking or if he's thinking of winning right now. he made one move, and he was already trying to get rid of lowry, but the knicks were dumbasses, and there were no other takers for lowry in a deal that would be appealing to the raptors. That's precisely why we're not tanking yet. He winning is just a pleasant surprise.

Tmath
12-29-2013, 11:39 PM
How is top4 seed in pro sports worst division plenty big???? IMO it's brutal that we consider that success. :shrug: hasn't anyone here ever cheered for a home team champion?

Most of us here are young'ish Toronto sport fans... so no...

A top 4 seed this year would be a success as long as we continue to keep getting better.

Its very rare to go from rock bottom into straight contenders.

Cleveland drafted possibly the best player ever and still never won a championship. We could draft the next LeBron, doesn't mean we are going to win anything.

ink
12-29-2013, 11:57 PM
How is top4 seed in pro sports worst division plenty big???? IMO it's brutal that we consider that success. :shrug: hasn't anyone here ever cheered for a home team champion?

Most of us here are young'ish Toronto sport fans... so no...

A top 4 seed this year would be a success as long as we continue to keep getting better.

Its very rare to go from rock bottom into straight contenders.

Cleveland drafted possibly the best player ever and still never won a championship. We could draft the next LeBron, doesn't mean we are going to win anything.

I'm not saying to go straight from rock bottom to contender status.

Tmath
12-30-2013, 12:02 AM
I'm not saying to go straight from rock bottom to contender status.

So you want to see losing basketball for another 4-5 years? because thats how long we'll have to wait for that "top pick" to develop.

Why can't we try winning now, and keep building on that? We have a rare opportunity to get a top 4 seed, and give our young players some playoff experience. Isn't that good for team development?

ink
12-30-2013, 12:11 AM
I'm not saying to go straight from rock bottom to contender status.

So you want to see losing basketball for another 4-5 years? because thats how long we'll have to wait for that "top pick" to develop.

Why can't we try winning now, and keep building on that? We have a rare opportunity to get a top 4 seed, and give our young players some playoff experience. Isn't that good for team development?

Not especially. Did playoff experience do anything for the 2007 and 08 Raptors? Nope.

And no I don't want 4-5 years of losing ball. It wouldn't take that long.

4th seed this year is completely worthless in the long run.

MoneyBall20
12-30-2013, 01:00 AM
Not especially. Did playoff experience do anything for the 2007 and 08 Raptors? Nope.

And no I don't want 4-5 years of losing ball. It wouldn't take that long.

4th seed this year is completely worthless in the long run.

Can't disagree with ure statement,ure right on the money.
Sure I want 2 the raptors 2 do well,but let's be honest the east stinks.
And only 2 top teams are good,the rest are garbage,pathetic.
U are absolutely right it would be worthless in the long run.
Kyle Lowry will get traded,sooner then later,musai knows that,raptors won't be signing him,nor Lowry want's 2 sign here,his playing for contract.
Derozan,Amir..these are all chips for deals 2 be made in the off season or now,the value of these players are sky high. If u add any of these players on other team,where would they be,on the bench.
We raptor fans gotta be realistic,where do we go if we keep these players and make the playoffs,no where..can u honestly say raptors will do anything if they make playoffs,NO!!!
I want the raptors 2 become relevant in the league,championship team,not a bubble team and praying 500 ball,hopping 2 make playoffs and then get bounce by force that we should be at..like maimi or Indiana.
ie..Take a look at San Antonio Spurs.
That's the kind of team raptors should be,great coaching,hall famer players,all star players,best 6th man in the league,amazing role players.
Every year their in playoffs competing for championship,that's what we should be thriving for,that kind of model of success.
Not crawling back at 500...pointless,mehhh!!!

Nick O
12-31-2013, 01:23 AM
How is top4 seed in pro sports worst division plenty big???? IMO it's brutal that we consider that success. :shrug: hasn't anyone here ever cheered for a home team champion?

i cheer for my team to win. "tank nationers" cheer for apparently their team?? to lose? im too much of a fan to ever cheer for my favortie team to lose. excuse some of us for actually having fun watching them play good basketball winning games and looking like they can get to the second round. thats exciting. they get it in the second round and take on indiana or miami. we have automatic recognition right there. gives FAs some incentives

Nick O
12-31-2013, 01:25 AM
Not especially. Did playoff experience do anything for the 2007 and 08 Raptors? Nope.

And no I don't want 4-5 years of losing ball. It wouldn't take that long.

4th seed this year is completely worthless in the long run.

it 100% would take that long