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View Full Version : Ricky Rubio on pace to be the worst shooter in the modern history of the NBA.



xnick5757
12-25-2013, 10:27 PM
source (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10070788/the-young-nba-players-looking-make-leap-greatness)



This will merit a deeper treatment at some point, but it's time to have a serious discussion about Rubio's shooting. The honeymoon has to end sometime — might as well be now. Rubio is shooting 36.9 percent, and through three partial seasons and 3,700 minutes, he's a career 36 percent shooter.

Mitigating circumstances all. But his shooting is a problem. Rubio is on pace to be the worst shooter in the modern history of the NBA. Since the inception of the league, 61 total players have logged at least 5,000 career minutes and finished with a field goal mark of 38 percent or worse. Fifty-nine of those guys began their careers in 1965 or earlier; the other two are Eddie Griffin and Daequan Cook, who did not make it far beyond the 5,000-minute threshold.



I knew he wasn't great at shooting, but I didn't realize he was this bad!

kingsdelez24
12-25-2013, 10:35 PM
Daaaaaaamn..... I had no idea he's that bad. ..

b@llhog24
12-25-2013, 10:36 PM
Lol maybe Rubio should be compared to Bob Cousy instead of Kidd.

Nick O
12-25-2013, 10:36 PM
he is awful .. people claim how great a passer he is yet hes reached double digit assists twice in his last 20 games. hes the worst shooter i have ever seen. he cant drive. hes 24th among point guards in Opponent scoring. and the majority of the assists he does get are due to him passing to Kevin Love... he ISN'T good... at all. hes a bust. saw that coming a mile away. Draft players out of college it's safer

Nick O
12-25-2013, 10:37 PM
Lol maybe Rubio should be compared to Bob Cousy instead of Kidd.

is there really someone who said Richmond/rice and Robinson were better than james? O.o

JNA17
12-25-2013, 10:38 PM
I will admit that I fell for the "Rubio the next Steve Nash/Kidd" hype. In that 08 Olympics game against USA, I thought just like most people that he was going to be amazing...

Now? He's a total train wreck. The guy has had way too much hype EVEN NOW. On the top of my head, I could probably name 15 better point guards in the league. After research? 20+ at least.

Shooting is not even his only problem either. The fact that he is also a turnover machine makes him even worse and a total liability on offense.

b@llhog24
12-25-2013, 10:41 PM
is there really someone who said Richmond/rice and Robinson were better than james? O.o

Lol yea. Cracks me up every time.

Nick O
12-25-2013, 10:42 PM
and in all fairness to Cook and Griffin the essentially only shot 3 pointers.. rubio has no excuse.

TylerSL
12-25-2013, 10:51 PM
I was a Rubio fan when he first came into the league and while he was a terrible shooter and turned it over some, it was his rookie season and he had a lot of time to get better (like over the summer). I watched some of their games his rookie season and he really brought a lot of energy to their team. Now I just feel like he has not got any better since he came into the league. Injuries may have played a part in it, but he is in his 3rd year now and it does not seem like he has ever improved over the summer. I no longer pay that much attention to the Timberwolves but I do know they suffer from a ton of injuries. But I do not feel Rubio has developed at all to this point, which is extremely disappointing.

Nick O
12-25-2013, 10:59 PM
just because he played some good international games is a dumb reason anyone thought hed be all that good to being with. i know there were other reasons but he was a brutal shooter even playing in europe. hes never going to be a good shooter and if he has a season shooting over 40% in his career ill be shocked. he was all hype with some flashy passes.. Sebastian Telfair anyone?

WES KOAST
12-25-2013, 11:11 PM
I know why Rubio sucks...he's actually an actor pretending to be a nba player. he made this dumb movie called "my bodyguard" way back in the day.

here's rubios Hollywood headshot
http://content9.flixster.com/photo/10/87/13/10871343_ori.jpg

shep33
12-25-2013, 11:15 PM
Honestly, it isn't even about him making jumpers. He can't score at the rim.

GiantsSwaGG
12-25-2013, 11:18 PM
He sucks, he's on the same level as Raymond Felton

John Walls Era
12-25-2013, 11:21 PM
Hated Rubio in Europe, but now I feel bad for him. But its his own fault. Instead of working on his game, hes was too busy basking in his own hype. SMH. If Jose Calderon has some of his talent, he would be a greater player.

b@llhog24
12-25-2013, 11:22 PM
Hated Rubio in Europe, but now I feel bad for him. But its his own fault. Instead of working on his game, hes was too busy basking in his own hype. SMH. If Jose Calderon has some of his talent, he would be a greater player.

Cause he would be a better defender as well. Lol.

Chronz
12-25-2013, 11:28 PM
Lol maybe Rubio should be compared to Bob Cousy instead of Kidd.

This. Even Cooz got better at shooting as the game advanced tho, Rubio has no excuse

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 11:29 PM
this should be merged with the WTH happened to Rubio thread, but whatever.

Yeah, feel my pain as a Wolves fan. He has completely regressed. His TS% was acceptable the last trimester of last year, because he was getting to the line every night and making FT's. But he doesn't even do that anymore. Worst finisher at the rim I can remember. He has become a liability on the offensive end, and even if we make the playoffs, teams will scheme for him and destroy our advantage in the paint against almost every team by forcing Rubio to produce, which he is obviously not capable of.

As I said in the other thread, I am starting to resent Rubio, and not just because of his play. Kahn held out on the 5 year max to give to Rubio, so he shortened our window to give Love real help by 2 years. Just ****ing pathetic. It pisses me off to no end. How do you play 39 minutes and score 0 points? How is that possible?

Rubio is beyond disappointing. And I find it utterly hilarious that some people here have tried to convince me that he is more important than Kevin Love to our current, or future success. Please.

Nick O
12-25-2013, 11:33 PM
who even compared him to nash to begin with? Nash is one of the best shooters of all time

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 11:40 PM
who even compared him to nash to begin with? Nash is one of the best shooters of all time

nobody haha. That is a terrible reference. The Kidd ones made sense. Non-scorer who could pass, defend, and rebound for the position. A 14-10-5-3 type player potentially. But so far this season, Rubio is killing his team. People bring up his +/- with no context. The majority of his minutes come next to Love and Pek. ANYONE who plays their big minutes next to Love will have a positive +/-.

He has been bad. And frustrating on top of that. Teams are falling under the picks, and disrupting passing lanes into the paint, and to our cutters, because they know he isn't going to make a jumper. When he drives, they don't lay a hand on him, because they know he is going to brick it.

I do believe the Wolves will end up with a winning record. But when you are being told by media, fans, and everyone under the sun you just bought a BMW, and it turns out to be a Honda Accord, and that player costed 2 years of your franchise player because your old GM was in love with his ''creation", you get sick of it.

Guppyfighter
12-25-2013, 11:40 PM
An example of a player who can do everything well except score and have it make them a detriment.

Nick O
12-26-2013, 12:09 AM
An example of a player who can do everything well except score and have it make them a detriment.

24th amongst PGs in opponent scoring means he isnt exactly a defensive whiz either

Nick O
12-26-2013, 12:11 AM
nobody haha. That is a terrible reference. The Kidd ones made sense. Non-scorer who could pass, defend, and rebound for the position. A 14-10-5-3 type player potentially. But so far this season, Rubio is killing his team. People bring up his +/- with no context. The majority of his minutes come next to Love and Pek. ANYONE who plays their big minutes next to Love will have a positive +/-.

He has been bad. And frustrating on top of that. Teams are falling under the picks, and disrupting passing lanes into the paint, and to our cutters, because they know he isn't going to make a jumper. When he drives, they don't lay a hand on him, because they know he is going to brick it.

I do believe the Wolves will end up with a winning record. But when you are being told by media, fans, and everyone under the sun you just bought a BMW, and it turns out to be a Honda Accord, and that player costed 2 years of your franchise player because your old GM was in love with his ''creation", you get sick of it.

Even Kidd could knock don a 3 every once in a while. and he made players around him better. Rubio is essentially a pass dispenser for Kevin love. id hate to see how his numbers would look if he wasnt around him. the only reasonable compairison i see to rubio is Telfair. all the Hype, flashy passing. and nuthin in the nba

IndyRealist
12-26-2013, 12:17 AM
I'd like to point out that, at his current 34.6% on 2's, his PER still goes up the more he shoots (the break even point being 30.4%), despite being historically bad as the OP states. Can we stop quoting PER now?

GiantsSwaGG
12-26-2013, 12:19 AM
An example of a player who can do everything well except score and have it make them a detriment.

He's an average defender

Guppyfighter
12-26-2013, 12:26 AM
He's an average defender

Average defense still isn't not well, you know.

Nick O
12-26-2013, 12:28 AM
He's an average defender

below.

HYFR
12-26-2013, 01:35 AM
Who's taking Lin over him for the future? It's gotta be Lin easily right..?

Nick O
12-26-2013, 01:47 AM
Who's taking Lin over him for the future? It's gotta be Lin easily right..?

by a mile

zn23
12-26-2013, 01:54 AM
Rubio needs to spend an entire off season working on that jump shot or he's not going to last very long.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-26-2013, 01:55 AM
Lol I never expected him to be a great shooter (thought he was a 40% shooter max) in his NBA career but that is pretty bad. The potential for everything else is still there and I think he'll reach it. He's not a bad FT shooter so I always thought he could improve but don't think he can handle defenders.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-26-2013, 01:58 AM
24th amongst PGs in opponent scoring means he isnt exactly a defensive whiz either

Where'd you get this stat? I was trying to find it but couldn't.

bucketss
12-26-2013, 02:02 AM
could be because of the knee injury, he wasnt bad before it.

Nick O
12-26-2013, 02:04 AM
Where'd you get this stat? I was trying to find it but couldn't.

yaaa i ****ed that up .. it was NBA.com. i clicked some sort of advanced stat thing. then i did it again for Kevin Love.. i was confused so i did it again for pekovich realized it was the teams stats.. not sure why it sent me there. anyway that was my mistake i apologize.. hes still not a top notch defender.

Nick O
12-26-2013, 02:04 AM
could be because of the knee injury, he wasnt bad before it.

he still couldnt shoot before it

SouthSideRookie
12-26-2013, 02:55 AM
Who's taking Lin over him for the future? It's gotta be Lin easily right..?



Comparing Lin to Rubio is like comparing Kate Upton to Rosie O' Donnell. They're both on TV, but that's where the comparison ends. posted bylatinofire21
lol


Rubio needs to spend an entire off season working on that jump shot or he's not going to last very long.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0423/grant_r_RickyRubio_Goldsberry.jpg

Nick O
12-26-2013, 02:57 AM
lol



http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0423/grant_r_RickyRubio_Goldsberry.jpg

lol his smile in the bottom corner tho. makes me feel like hes endorsing the chart :p

Blitzace137
12-26-2013, 03:39 AM
Who's taking Lin over him for the future? It's gotta be Lin easily right..?

I never understood why people got offended when people compared Lin and Rubio. Rubio hasn't proven anything, yet he was considered to better than Lin by a mile?

Cal827
12-26-2013, 04:43 AM
Hated Rubio in Europe, but now I feel bad for him. But its his own fault. Instead of working on his game, hes was too busy basking in his own hype. SMH. If Jose Calderon has some of his talent, he would be a greater player.

As a Raptor fan, I'll say what we all were thinking during his tenure here.

Calderon + Some sort of Defense= Top 3 point Guard, no doubts.

RollingWave
12-26-2013, 05:31 AM
As said in other thread and many other places, perspective here people, the Wolf's are a net positive all the time with Rubio on the floor, his horrendous shooting if mitigated a bit by his passing (but yes, he is one of the more problematic PG offensively.) and his defense is excellent, adjusted +/- still see him as a super valuable player.

He's fine, he's going to have a pretty long career, the Jason Kidd comp wasn't that ridiculous at all, the first 2 year (same age) of their career saw basically identical true shooting and identical and secondary stuff are all very very similar. he's having a rough start and need to bounce back no doubt, but most folks are freaking out too much here.

At the end of the day, most of those non top tier young PG all have big strength and flaws and you can put a microscope on any of them and rip them to shreds or you can look at it from a bigger picture and realize that all of them could either fall apart or have a very long career .

FWIW, I still like him a lot more than Jeff Teague and Brandon Jennings. (both of whom are shooting damn crap too.) I think the thing with the Lin comparison is the funny enough Lin's probably made the most improvements in the last couple years of that group , though it remains to be seen if it can hold up in the longer run.

asandhu23
12-26-2013, 08:13 AM
I think he needs a change in scenery.

Minimal
12-26-2013, 08:21 AM
Never thought he was that bad. .35 career FG%, seriously the dude should not be in the NBA or he should just stop shooting at all. But hey they have another pro - Alexey Shved, who has .25 FG% this year lol.

Nick O
12-26-2013, 02:23 PM
Never thought he was that bad. .35 career FG%, seriously the dude should not be in the NBA or he should just stop shooting at all. But hey they have another pro - Alexey Shved, who has .25 FG% this year lol.

i never thought he shoulda really been in the league at all

PurpleLynch
12-26-2013, 03:47 PM
He didn't develop his game during these years. Strange,because usually these kind of players learn to shoot while in the Nba. If he can develop a shoot he could be a Josè Calderon with a better defense,but he needs to improve or he'll come back to Europe.

AddiX
12-26-2013, 04:06 PM
Dont worry, he's going to develop a three point shot, and become the next Jason Kidd.

They been telling me this for 4 years, so it must be true.

NYKnickFanatic
12-26-2013, 04:21 PM
You can tell that he doesn't work on his game.

Lakers + Giants
12-26-2013, 04:29 PM
The worst finisher at the rim I've ever seen is derek fisher, so many times that I saw Fish drive to the hoop and just completely **** up the finish.

A million dollar mover but a nickel finish.

Is Rubio as bad as fish?

Nick O
12-26-2013, 04:51 PM
He didn't develop his game during these years. Strange,because usually these kind of players learn to shoot while in the Nba. If he can develop a shoot he could be a Josè Calderon with a better defense,but he needs to improve or he'll come back to Europe.

he can work on his shot all he wants but he will never be the same shooter jose is

Nick O
12-26-2013, 04:52 PM
The worst finisher at the rim I've ever seen is derek fisher, so many times that I saw Fish drive to the hoop and just completely **** up the finish.

A million dollar mover but a nickel finish.

Is Rubio as bad as fish?

hes the worst ive ever seen in my life. he gets blocked a hell of alot too

Hawkeye15
12-26-2013, 04:53 PM
I think he needs a change in scenery.

or to make a layup

Hawkeye15
12-26-2013, 04:55 PM
The worst finisher at the rim I've ever seen is derek fisher, so many times that I saw Fish drive to the hoop and just completely **** up the finish.

A million dollar mover but a nickel finish.

Is Rubio as bad as fish?

yes, Laker Fisher, where he hovered between 38-44% from the rim. Rubio is that bad. Unfortunately, we don't have Kobe, Shaq, and the rest of the crew..

Hawkeye15
12-26-2013, 04:57 PM
Rubio had no time to develop his game after his rookie year, he was getting his knee back. But last summer, he choose to play for his national team in Eurobasketball. Which means he slides straight into his old habits formed in Spain. Don't shoot, just play defense and pass the ball. He needs to take a full summer off, away from that team, and work on his shot, his body, and nothing else.

Will it ever happen? Meh, probably not.

Bruno
12-26-2013, 05:09 PM
he needs to make 1,000 jump shots a day, five days a week in the off-season. thats all there is to it. its either that he doesn't take his off-seasons seriously, or he focuses on the wrong aspects of the game given his ability. his whole game will open up with a respectable jumper, hes a vet now that needs to be a major part of his skill-set. can't finish under the cup? fine, polish that three and polish that mid range and get yourself a floater.

Bruno
12-26-2013, 05:10 PM
Rubio had no time to develop his game after his rookie year, he was getting his knee back. But last summer, he choose to play for his national team in Eurobasketball. Which means he slides straight into his old habits formed in Spain. Don't shoot, just play defense and pass the ball. He needs to take a full summer off, away from that team, and work on his shot, his body, and nothing else.

Will it ever happen? Meh, probably not.

bingo. not to mention that spain will never come close to beating team USA unless he's capable of dropping 20 and spreading the floor. its a win-win for him to take a season off and become a legitimate shooter. for NBA reasons and olympic reasons to benefit his national team.

blahblahyoutoo
12-26-2013, 05:19 PM
I never understood why people got offended when people compared Lin and Rubio. Rubio hasn't proven anything, yet he was considered to better than Lin by a mile?

lin has slightly improved on his handle and limited his TOs somewhat, but his shooting has improved tremendously.
rubio is the same player he was his rookie season if not worse.

both are still subpar pg's in the league.

John Walls Era
12-26-2013, 05:44 PM
he needs to learn the floater. i expect any nba player to make layups at a high clip. you would think that you could get 6/10 just by throwing it up there when you're 5 feet away.

Mr_Jones
12-26-2013, 05:51 PM
he is awful .. people claim how great a passer he is yet hes reached double digit assists twice in his last 20 games. hes the worst shooter i have ever seen. he cant drive. hes 24th among point guards in Opponent scoring. and the majority of the assists he does get are due to him passing to Kevin Love... he ISN'T good... at all. hes a bust. saw that coming a mile away. Draft players out of college it's safer

Another deception based off of statistics. He's an incredible passer; one of the best the league has had in the last decade. But looking off of the leading passers in the league you'd come to the conclusion that Wall and Jennings are better passers than Rubio. There's absolutely no way that's true. There is much more going on than just purely the numbers.

AddiX
12-26-2013, 05:51 PM
he needs to learn the floater. i expect any nba player to make layups at a high clip. you would think that you could get 6/10 just by throwing it up there when you're 5 feet away.

ITs amazing how few pgs have a floater. Rubio is so far away from developing a floater I don't ever see it happening.

Ps I dig the Floyd gif. Especially the above camera view,where he's pawing his jab out there and checking for new angles and openings for the right hand while keeping canelo focused on the left. Boxing 101 right there.

Iron24th
12-26-2013, 05:53 PM
rubio has always sucked in europe, what did you expect from him in NBA?!

Iron24th
12-26-2013, 05:57 PM
The worst finisher at the rim I've ever seen is derek fisher, so many times that I saw Fish drive to the hoop and just completely **** up the finish.

A million dollar mover but a nickel finish.

Is Rubio as bad as fish?
Until this: http://youtu.be/gyJ_o7XMP98

lol, please
12-26-2013, 06:22 PM
or to make a layup

This.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2013, 06:36 PM
he needs to make 1,000 jump shots a day, five days a week in the off-season. thats all there is to it. its either that he doesn't take his off-seasons seriously, or he focuses on the wrong aspects of the game given his ability. his whole game will open up with a respectable jumper, hes a vet now that needs to be a major part of his skill-set. can't finish under the cup? fine, polish that three and polish that mid range and get yourself a floater.

I think a well respected shooting coach needs to break down his form entirely and start from scratch. But the finishing at the rim part is the most important hole in his game. You can't shoot under 45% from 1 foot away. That is unacceptable on all levels.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2013, 06:36 PM
he needs to learn the floater. i expect any nba player to make layups at a high clip. you would think that you could get 6/10 just by throwing it up there when you're 5 feet away.

yeah, but he doesn't.

Nick O
12-26-2013, 06:46 PM
Another deception based off of statistics. He's an incredible passer; one of the best the league has had in the last decade. But looking off of the leading passers in the league you'd come to the conclusion that Wall and Jennings are better passers than Rubio. There's absolutely no way that's true. There is much more going on than just purely the numbers.

why isnt it true?? i know its not just about numbers. but how can you not drop 10 dimes with kevin love on your team? i think john wall is a better passer hes not a flashy but hes better

Hawkeye15
12-26-2013, 07:08 PM
why isnt it true?? i know its not just about numbers. but how can you not drop 10 dimes with kevin love on your team? i think john wall is a better passer hes not a flashy but hes better

Adelman's offense takes the ball out of Rubio's hands immediately. He is a once in a generation passer, but with his scoring liability, he rarely gets the ball when the clock is winding down and asked to make a play, because there is a great chance the other team will just force him to shoot, which we can't have. Most teams give the ball to their PG to create, unless they have an exception shot creator/playmaker at another position.

John Walls Era
12-26-2013, 09:12 PM
ITs amazing how few pgs have a floater. Rubio is so far away from developing a floater I don't ever see it happening.

Ps I dig the Floyd gif. Especially the above camera view,where he's pawing his jab out there and checking for new angles and openings for the right hand while keeping canelo focused on the left. Boxing 101 right there.

floater is an easy shot to learn.

Hawkeye15
12-26-2013, 09:14 PM
floater is an easy shot to learn.

isn't a layup the easiest? Lemme know when Rubio learns that....

AddiX
12-26-2013, 09:24 PM
floater is an easy shot to learn.

Not at full speed with athletic and tall defenders flying at you, it's not. It's actually quite tricky.

IndyRealist
12-26-2013, 10:52 PM
Another deception based off of statistics. He's an incredible passer; one of the best the league has had in the last decade. But looking off of the leading passers in the league you'd come to the conclusion that Wall and Jennings are better passers than Rubio. There's absolutely no way that's true. There is much more going on than just purely the numbers.

Not a deception, a misunderstanding of what he is looking at. Per game stats are meaningless because you lose almost all context. Per minute, Rubio is tied for 4th in assists.

John Walls Era
12-26-2013, 10:57 PM
Not at full speed with athletic and tall defenders flying at you, it's not. It's actually quite tricky.

Ok thats a good point. But rubio is fast, he can maybe get a wide open spot somewhere.


isn't a layup the easiest? Lemme know when Rubio learns that....

at nba level probably not. I always rather float it than go attack the basket, but thats because im about the same height as everyone else.

Knowledge
12-26-2013, 11:13 PM
His lack of an ability to draw fouls and finish at the rim greatly reduces his offensive production. I'm not sure how you fix that though.

If a guy struggles to finish in the paint, that is much harder to correct than shooting outside shots.

Hawkeye15
12-27-2013, 01:10 AM
Ok thats a good point. But rubio is fast, he can maybe get a wide open spot somewhere.



at nba level probably not. I always rather float it than go attack the basket, but thats because im about the same height as everyone else.

I will put it really easy, so you understand. A layup, is the easiest shot attempt in the game of basketball. Nothing you can retort makes that false. If Rubio can't make a simple layup, why on earth are you teaching him a shot that relies on touch and skill?

Nick O
12-27-2013, 01:31 AM
floater is an easy shot to learn.

Rubio hasnt learned anything at all

IndyRealist
12-27-2013, 01:35 AM
His lack of an ability to draw fouls and finish at the rim greatly reduces his offensive production. I'm not sure how you fix that though.

If a guy struggles to finish in the paint, that is much harder to correct than shooting outside shots.

If he could hit layups, or really any short jumper within 10ft of the basket, he'd draw lots of fouls.

It's easier just to get him a jumpshot enough so teams can't leave him open.

AddiX
12-27-2013, 01:47 AM
I will put it really easy, so you understand. A layup, is the easiest shot attempt in the game of basketball. Nothing you can retort makes that false. If Rubio can't make a simple layup, why on earth are you teaching him a shot that relies on touch and skill?

Rubio looks scared when he gets around the rim.

I noticed he always looks up last second, and seems to be surprised he's so close to the rim and throws up a clunker.

I also noticed he has a really slow delivery with his layups. Instead of the ball going straight up, he literally swings it around his body every, almost looks like a hook shot.

To me it's no whether or not Rubio can develop his offense. No one knows. To me it's about how long a team is willing to wait. Is Minnesota willing to wait, are the fans willing to wait, and if and when they bring in a better option for the immediate future, how will rubio react?

Could u imagine how better shape minny would be in if they got someone like jarrett jack and let Rubio start, but really split minutes and let jack take over in clutch time? We might be talking a difference of 4-5 wins easily right now.

Nick O
12-27-2013, 01:52 AM
Rubio looks scared when he gets around the rim.

I noticed he always looks up last second, and seems to be surprised he's so close to the rim and throws up a clunker.

I also noticed he has a really slow delivery with his layups. Instead of the ball going straight up, he literally swings it around his body every, almost looks like a hook shot.

To me it's no whether or not Rubio can develop his offense. No one knows. To me it's about how long a team is willing to wait. Is Minnesota willing to wait, are the fans willing to wait, and if and when they bring in a better option for the immediate future, how will rubio react?

Could u imagine how better shape minny would be in if they got someone like jarrett jack and let Rubio start, but really split minutes and let jack take over in clutch time? We might be talking a difference of 4-5 wins easily right now.

or even if they got jarret jack and then just benched rubio

AddiX
12-27-2013, 02:00 AM
or even if they got jarret jack and then just benched rubio

That would be yours and my plan but unfortunately the NBA isn't just about winning, and the wolves org invested a lot in Rubio to be the face of there team. There not about to fully bench him.

John Walls Era
12-27-2013, 03:01 AM
I will put it really easy, so you understand. A layup, is the easiest shot attempt in the game of basketball. Nothing you can retort makes that false. If Rubio can't make a simple layup, why on earth are you teaching him a shot that relies on touch and skill?

i never said layup isn't easier. but with everyone crashing down when Rubio penetrates (cuz they know he won't shoot a jumper), his layups are probably well contested.

coaches and practice is used to learn new things and improve skills.

Hawkeye15
12-27-2013, 03:57 AM
i never said layup isn't easier. but with everyone crashing down when Rubio penetrates (cuz they know he won't shoot a jumper), his layups are probably well contested.

coaches and practice is used to learn new things and improve skills.

Ok. So I will explain it to you like you are 5. If you can't get to the rim and make a simple layup, at 6'4", with a 6'7" wingspan, and can barely hit the rim on 19 footers, why would you teach this player a floater?

John Walls Era
12-27-2013, 01:38 PM
Ok. So I will explain it to you like you are 5. If you can't get to the rim and make a simple layup, at 6'4", with a 6'7" wingspan, and can barely hit the rim on 19 footers, why would you teach this player a floater?

because his layups aint working LOL.

Hawkeye15
12-27-2013, 03:54 PM
Rubio looks scared when he gets around the rim.

I noticed he always looks up last second, and seems to be surprised he's so close to the rim and throws up a clunker.

I also noticed he has a really slow delivery with his layups. Instead of the ball going straight up, he literally swings it around his body every, almost looks like a hook shot.

To me it's no whether or not Rubio can develop his offense. No one knows. To me it's about how long a team is willing to wait. Is Minnesota willing to wait, are the fans willing to wait, and if and when they bring in a better option for the immediate future, how will rubio react?

Could u imagine how better shape minny would be in if they got someone like jarrett jack and let Rubio start, but really split minutes and let jack take over in clutch time? We might be talking a difference of 4-5 wins easily right now.

Rubio looks panicked because he is. He has no intention of shooting when he drives, so when he can't find Pek rolling or a corner 3 shooter open, last second he shuttles the ball at the rim, yells, throws his head back trying to draw a foul, and bricks a point blank layup.

Fun fact: Trey Burke fell to us at #9. We drafted him (I was SO happy that moment), and immediately traded him for picks 14/21, which were used to draft a D-Leaguer in the making and a shot blocker that Adelman won't even use.

That is twice now, assuming Burke turns into what I think he will, we have drafted a better PG than Rubio and traded him to another team in our division.

Hawkeye15
12-27-2013, 03:55 PM
i never said layup isn't easier. but with everyone crashing down when Rubio penetrates (cuz they know he won't shoot a jumper), his layups are probably well contested.

coaches and practice is used to learn new things and improve skills.

then make him improve the most simple fundamentals in scoring before teaching him a shot with difficulty is what I am saying.

mike_noodles
12-27-2013, 04:17 PM
then make him improve the most simple fundamentals in scoring before teaching him a shot with difficulty is what I am saying.

That's common sense. Too bad there's soooooooo many NBA players that lack fundamentals now a days. They all wanna be on the highlights it seems like and fundamentals take a back seat.

Hawkeye15
12-27-2013, 04:21 PM
That's common sense. Too bad there's soooooooo many NBA players that lack fundamentals now a days. They all wanna be on the highlights it seems like and fundamentals take a back seat.

which makes Rubio such an odd case. How many European players can't shoot? They can all shoot. They all have fundamentals. Not sure how he is so bad coming from that background at scoring.

Nick O
12-27-2013, 05:23 PM
if i shot 35% id be scared to shoot too....

Nick O
12-27-2013, 05:25 PM
which makes Rubio such an odd case. How many European players can't shoot? They can all shoot. They all have fundamentals. Not sure how he is so bad coming from that background at scoring.

i can just see him now. young ricky rubio on the playground practicing his behind the back pass while all his friends were putting up 3 after 3 ,,, not a single rebound was gathered that day

AddiX
12-28-2013, 01:30 AM
Rubio looks panicked because he is. He has no intention of shooting when he drives, so when he can't find Pek rolling or a corner 3 shooter open, last second he shuttles the ball at the rim, yells, throws his head back trying to draw a foul, and bricks a point blank layup.

Fun fact: Trey Burke fell to us at #9. We drafted him (I was SO happy that moment), and immediately traded him for picks 14/21, which were used to draft a D-Leaguer in the making and a shot blocker that Adelman won't even use.

That is twice now, assuming Burke turns into what I think he will, we have drafted a better PG than Rubio and traded him to another team in our division.

We may not agree on a lot of things, but take it from a Knicks fan...

If you think about all the bad moves and missed opportunities your front office made (especially being a bad team), you really will lose your mind.

I would need my own forum to go over all the moves the Knicks have made the past 10 years that I hated. It would be easy if I could say that the moves were bad in hindsight, but that's nit even the case, I knew the moves sucked when they happened.

Hawkeye15
12-28-2013, 06:14 PM
We may not agree on a lot of things, but take it from a Knicks fan...

If you think about all the bad moves and missed opportunities your front office made (especially being a bad team), you really will lose your mind.

I would need my own forum to go over all the moves the Knicks have made the past 10 years that I hated. It would be easy if I could say that the moves were bad in hindsight, but that's nit even the case, I knew the moves sucked when they happened.

we are on the same page there. It is sad that Kahn made me miss McFail, who I thought was awful. And Flip hasn't started out well.

Same old same old.

Synyster89
12-28-2013, 07:04 PM
So much Rubio hate...you know he's only 23 right? Kid is the steals leader, hovering right around the top 5 in assists, and rebounds very well for a PG. What I find strange about Rubio is he is a 85% FT shooter this year so his mechanics are there...give him time, too many people fall in love with the scoring PG. I still think he has legit potential. All this talk that he shouldn't be in the NBA is ridiculous...he almost triple doubled last night haha

I know he shoots terribly but he also does several things very well. Give him a couple more years to improve his shooting before being so ready to give up on him.

Hawkeye15
12-28-2013, 08:27 PM
So much Rubio hate...you know he's only 23 right? Kid is the steals leader, hovering right around the top 5 in assists, and rebounds very well for a PG. What I find strange about Rubio is he is a 85% FT shooter this year so his mechanics are there...give him time, too many people fall in love with the scoring PG. I still think he has legit potential. All this talk that he shouldn't be in the NBA is ridiculous...he almost triple doubled last night haha

I know he shoots terribly but he also does several things very well. Give him a couple more years to improve his shooting before being so ready to give up on him.

the issue in Wolves world, is that Love's opt out is a ticking clock. If Rubio doesn't improve quickly, and help the team become a 50 win team, Love is gone. Kahn hedged the future of the team on Rubio becoming a star. So much so, that he refused to give the 5 year max to the actual star on the team.

Rubio's improvement is imperative in keeping Love. He is the only player we have with major room for growth that can contribute right now.

SanPitte
12-28-2013, 09:05 PM
Teams should stop drafting European or "Euro type" players with a top 15 pick, they might get a really good player (Nowitzki,Pau Gasol, Stojakovic) but most times they get busts (Milicic, Tskitishvili, Araujo, Potapenko, Radojevic, Weis, Przybilla, Radmanovic, Nachbar, Biedrins, Vazquez, Korolev, Bargnani, Jianlian, Vesely...)

Parker, Marc Gasol and Manu were good surprises for their respective teams as they were late 1st or 2nd round picks

John Walls Era
12-28-2013, 09:12 PM
So much Rubio hate...you know he's only 23 right? Kid is the steals leader, hovering right around the top 5 in assists, and rebounds very well for a PG. What I find strange about Rubio is he is a 85% FT shooter this year so his mechanics are there...give him time, too many people fall in love with the scoring PG. I still think he has legit potential. All this talk that he shouldn't be in the NBA is ridiculous...he almost triple doubled last night haha

I know he shoots terribly but he also does several things very well. Give him a couple more years to improve his shooting before being so ready to give up on him.

No time to wait. He should've stepped up big time this year. Love will be gone after a couple more years.

Nick O
12-29-2013, 12:21 AM
lol nice 4 points today. only 8 dimes when love went off for 33. even when they play well hes not that great

Hawkeye15
12-29-2013, 12:38 AM
lol nice 4 points today. only 8 dimes when love went off for 33. even when they play well hes not that great

with 6 steals.

Trust me, he will kill us in a playoff series.

Nick O
12-29-2013, 01:30 AM
with 6 steals.

Trust me, he will kill us in a playoff series.

lol. like Rubio will be in the playoffs in the near future. when Klove is gone they will be competing for the cellar

PurpleJesus
12-29-2013, 04:40 AM
He is so frustrating for Wolves fans now. His court vision and passing ability is obvious, as well as his defense, but is good as those three things are, he hurts the team more than he helps it because he has no scoring ability.

However, he is Minnesota's best option at point right now, because JJ Barea is much worse.

PurpleJesus
12-29-2013, 04:42 AM
lol. like Rubio will be in the playoffs in the near future. when Klove is gone they will be competing for the cellar

we get it, you are Rubio's #1 hater, you saw from the beginning that he was ineffective with his shooting, and you want everyone to know how early you saw it.

FOXHOUND
12-29-2013, 04:48 AM
As of 12/15/13, per 82games.com

Ricky Rubio
On Court
Team Offensive Rating - 112.6
Team Defensive Rating - 104.5
Net Rating - +8.1
Team effective FG% - 49.6%
Team Assisted FGs - 62%

Off Court
Team Offensive Rating - 98.9
Team Defensive Rating - 103.4
Net Rating - -4.6
Team effective FG% - 41.9%
Team Assisted FGs - 56%

Lesson? Don't underestimate the impact a floor general has on a team, even if he himself isn't lighting it up.

Signed,

A Knicks fan dealing with the worst PG play in the NBA on both ends of the court :(

PurpleJesus
12-29-2013, 04:49 AM
So much Rubio hate...you know he's only 23 right? Kid is the steals leader, hovering right around the top 5 in assists, and rebounds very well for a PG. What I find strange about Rubio is he is a 85% FT shooter this year so his mechanics are there...give him time, too many people fall in love with the scoring PG. I still think he has legit potential. All this talk that he shouldn't be in the NBA is ridiculous...he almost triple doubled last night haha

I know he shoots terribly but he also does several things very well. Give him a couple more years to improve his shooting before being so ready to give up on him.

This is an accurate assessment of Ricky, however, I think you are undervaluing how much his atrocious shooting hurts his game, and the Wolves offense. Ricky has some serious skills, but until he can actually hit some shots and draw some attention to him from opposing D's, he is not a legitimate starter. The potential is clearly there, because of his defense, his passing ability, his court vision, but if he doesnt work on his shot, then all those other skills are wasted. And in his three years in the league, there has been no improvement on his shot, and as Hawkeye pointed out, it isnt just his shot, it is his inability to finish at the rim. He needs to get stronger to help him finish at the rim, and he needs to improve his shooting mechanics to reach his potential.

PurpleJesus
12-29-2013, 04:52 AM
As of 12/15/13, per 82games.com

Ricky Rubio
On Court
Team Offensive Rating - 112.6
Team Defensive Rating - 104.5
Net Rating - +8.1
Team effective FG% - 49.6%
Team Assisted FGs - 62%

Off Court
Team Offensive Rating - 98.9
Team Defensive Rating - 103.4
Net Rating - -4.6
Team effective FG% - 41.9%
Team Assisted FGs - 56%

Lesson? Don't underestimate the impact a floor general has on a team, even if he himself isn't lighting it up.

Signed,

A Knicks fan dealing with the worst PG play in the NBA on both ends of the court :(

Good post, but I think a lot of the net rating being positive with him on the floor vs him off the floor has a lot to do with his backup. Barea is awful. It is clear when you watch a Wolves game that the offense flows much better with Ricky on the floor, but I am not sure if that has more to do with Rubio running the offense efficiently as it does to how inefficiently Barea does.

FOXHOUND
12-29-2013, 04:55 AM
Good post, but I think a lot of the net rating being positive with him on the floor vs him off the floor has a lot to do with his backup. Barea is awful. It is clear when you watch a Wolves game that the offense flows much better with Ricky on the floor, but I am not sure if that has more to do with Rubio running the offense efficiently as it does to how inefficiently Barea does.

I think a lot of it is still Ricky, he's a really good PG in terms of passing and running an offense and all that good stuff. Can he be better? Of course, his shooting/scoring is pretty horrific. Look at him like Jason Kidd-lite right now, and be thankful you have a player like Love who can offset his scoring issues.

He needs to become a better scorer though. Like Jason Kidd he can roll with a 40/36/85 line because of how well he runs a offense and that he doesn't shoot enough for those %'s to really hurt.

PurpleJesus
12-29-2013, 05:02 AM
I think a lot of it is still Ricky, he's a really good PG in terms of passing and running an offense and all that good stuff. Can he be better? Of course, his shooting/scoring is pretty horrific. Look at him like Jason Kidd-lite right now, and be thankful you have a player like Love who can offset his scoring issues.

He needs to become a better scorer though. Like Jason Kidd he can roll with a 40/36/85 line because of how well he runs a offense and that he doesn't shoot enough for those %'s to really hurt.

Im glad we have a true PG, but its frustrating that he has been billed as our 2nd best player, which he clearly is not. For the franchise to be successful in the upcoming years he needs to be the 2nd best player, and its becoming pretty obvious that he will not be, and it will lead to Love leaving MN. Rubio's role right now needs to be what Rondo was to the Celtics when the big three there was in its early stages. Rondo's skill set is very similar to Rubio, but Rondo's deficiencies in shooting were covered up by Pierce, Garnett and Allen...the Wolves do not have that type of talent to mask Rubio's deficiencies.

FOXHOUND
12-29-2013, 05:17 AM
Im glad we have a true PG, but its frustrating that he has been billed as our 2nd best player, which he clearly is not. For the franchise to be successful in the upcoming years he needs to be the 2nd best player, and its becoming pretty obvious that he will not be, and it will lead to Love leaving MN. Rubio's role right now needs to be what Rondo was to the Celtics when the big three there was in its early stages. Rondo's skill set is very similar to Rubio, but Rondo's deficiencies in shooting were covered up by Pierce, Garnett and Allen...the Wolves do not have that type of talent to mask Rubio's deficiencies.

I don't know, I don't ever expect him to get his %'s up that much. As limited as Rondo is as a shooter his explosiveness and cleverness around the rim always had him shooting 50% overall, I think those ugly Jason Kidd %'s are more realistic of his potential on the %'s.

Right now if he was shooting 40/35/85 instead of 35/35/85 he would be scoring 0.8 more PPG for a total of 9.8. I would say the good thing is he's already clever enough to get himself a nice amount of FTA considering the FGA he takes, 2.9 FTA on 8.3 FGA is pretty nice for a scorer as limited as Rubio.

Then again, scoring really isn't an issue for the Wolves, is it? They're already at 106.4 PPG, and his passing is a pretty good reason for that. He's top 6 in passes per game, assists per game, assist chances per game and points created by assists per game, and as the 82games.com graphic shows the team has a very nice effective FG% of 49% with him on so his poor shooting isn't killing their efficiency at all thanks to his passing.

I think the only real issue with the Wolves right now is how horrible their bench is. It's really just nonexistent right now. A good big off the bench, a legit backup PG and a 6th man who can score a bit would do wonders for that team, I think. They don't have a single bench player averaging 20 MPG, they don't even have a 6th man right now.

John Walls Era
12-29-2013, 05:39 AM
As of 12/15/13, per 82games.com

Ricky Rubio
On Court
Team Offensive Rating - 112.6
Team Defensive Rating - 104.5
Net Rating - +8.1
Team effective FG% - 49.6%
Team Assisted FGs - 62%

Off Court
Team Offensive Rating - 98.9
Team Defensive Rating - 103.4
Net Rating - -4.6
Team effective FG% - 41.9%
Team Assisted FGs - 56%

Lesson? Don't underestimate the impact a floor general has on a team, even if he himself isn't lighting it up.

Signed,

A Knicks fan dealing with the worst PG play in the NBA on both ends of the court :(

Assuming thats the date. Who cares? You picked them during their winning streak.

PurpleJesus
12-29-2013, 05:46 AM
I don't know, I don't ever expect him to get his %'s up that much. As limited as Rondo is as a shooter his explosiveness and cleverness around the rim always had him shooting 50% overall, I think those ugly Jason Kidd %'s are more realistic of his potential on the %'s.

Right now if he was shooting 40/35/85 instead of 35/35/85 he would be scoring 0.8 more PPG for a total of 9.8. I would say the good thing is he's already clever enough to get himself a nice amount of FTA considering the FGA he takes, 2.9 FTA on 8.3 FGA is pretty nice for a scorer as limited as Rubio.

Then again, scoring really isn't an issue for the Wolves, is it? They're already at 106.4 PPG, and his passing is a pretty good reason for that. He's top 6 in passes per game, assists per game, assist chances per game and points created by assists per game, and as the 82games.com graphic shows the team has a very nice effective FG% of 49% with him on so his poor shooting isn't killing their efficiency at all thanks to his passing.

I think the only real issue with the Wolves right now is how horrible their bench is. It's really just nonexistent right now. A good big off the bench, a legit backup PG and a 6th man who can score a bit would do wonders for that team, I think. They don't have a single bench player averaging 20 MPG, they don't even have a 6th man right now.

You clearly know your basketball. Regarding him getting a nice amount of FTA, he needs to get more. He barely gets to the line. So much of his poor shooting could be made up if he could get to the line...and no, scoring isnt an issue for the Wolves, they get quite a bit of points, but last time I checked, which was at least a month ago, they were something like 14 or 15 in the league in offensive efficiency. They get a lot of points because of the up-tempo pace they play...and God...the bench is so awful this year. It will help when Budinger and Turiaf come back, but it will take awhile for Budinger to get back in the groove. And with Turiaf out, the Wolves have no backup C. When Pekovic sits, Love moves to C, which is not ideal. Right now, the Wolves always need either Love or Pekovic on the floor for all 48 minutes...which is a bad situation because both are starters. It would be great if both of those guys could get rest at the same time, and be able to come back into the game fresh together. Instead, the only fresh minutes those two get together are the first minutes of both halfs...and the closest thing the Wolves have to a 6th man is JJ Barea, and that is also a terrible situation to be in.

Wade n Fade
12-30-2013, 02:16 PM
Damn, he shouldn't have gone to the JR Smith Shooting Academy this offseason. JR Smith is also shooting ""really well" this season at 35.4%. Now, that would be a funny backcourt to watch.

valade16
12-30-2013, 02:38 PM
Good post, but I think a lot of the net rating being positive with him on the floor vs him off the floor has a lot to do with his backup. Barea is awful. It is clear when you watch a Wolves game that the offense flows much better with Ricky on the floor, but I am not sure if that has more to do with Rubio running the offense efficiently as it does to how inefficiently Barea does.


I think a lot of it is still Ricky, he's a really good PG in terms of passing and running an offense and all that good stuff. Can he be better? Of course, his shooting/scoring is pretty horrific. Look at him like Jason Kidd-lite right now, and be thankful you have a player like Love who can offset his scoring issues.

He needs to become a better scorer though. Like Jason Kidd he can roll with a 40/36/85 line because of how well he runs a offense and that he doesn't shoot enough for those %'s to really hurt.

I'd also like to see the rotation, specfically if Kevin Love is off the court most of the same times as Rubio.

Hawkeye15
12-30-2013, 03:53 PM
As of 12/15/13, per 82games.com

Ricky Rubio
On Court
Team Offensive Rating - 112.6
Team Defensive Rating - 104.5
Net Rating - +8.1
Team effective FG% - 49.6%
Team Assisted FGs - 62%

Off Court
Team Offensive Rating - 98.9
Team Defensive Rating - 103.4
Net Rating - -4.6
Team effective FG% - 41.9%
Team Assisted FGs - 56%

Lesson? Don't underestimate the impact a floor general has on a team, even if he himself isn't lighting it up.

Signed,

A Knicks fan dealing with the worst PG play in the NBA on both ends of the court :(

remember, his on court numbers come playing with Love/Martin/Pek the lions share of his minutes. That, and any starter we have is going to have a nice +/-, when you factor in how bad our bench is.

Hawkeye15
12-30-2013, 03:58 PM
I don't know, I don't ever expect him to get his %'s up that much. As limited as Rondo is as a shooter his explosiveness and cleverness around the rim always had him shooting 50% overall, I think those ugly Jason Kidd %'s are more realistic of his potential on the %'s.

Right now if he was shooting 40/35/85 instead of 35/35/85 he would be scoring 0.8 more PPG for a total of 9.8. I would say the good thing is he's already clever enough to get himself a nice amount of FTA considering the FGA he takes, 2.9 FTA on 8.3 FGA is pretty nice for a scorer as limited as Rubio.

Then again, scoring really isn't an issue for the Wolves, is it? They're already at 106.4 PPG, and his passing is a pretty good reason for that. He's top 6 in passes per game, assists per game, assist chances per game and points created by assists per game, and as the 82games.com graphic shows the team has a very nice effective FG% of 49% with him on so his poor shooting isn't killing their efficiency at all thanks to his passing.

I think the only real issue with the Wolves right now is how horrible their bench is. It's really just nonexistent right now. A good big off the bench, a legit backup PG and a 6th man who can score a bit would do wonders for that team, I think. They don't have a single bench player averaging 20 MPG, they don't even have a 6th man right now.

lets say we make the playoffs. A team now has 7 games and 2 weeks to prepare for us. They will simply force Ricky to shoot, and take away our ability to do anything with him handling the ball in the half court sets. Going under picks, sagging with the big so the ball doesn't go in, forcing him left into the paint and shutting all passing lanes down so he throws up rushed bricks, etc. He will be very easy to turn into a monster liability on the offensive end.

Hawkeye15
12-30-2013, 04:02 PM
I'd also like to see the rotation, specfically if Kevin Love is off the court most of the same times as Rubio.

rotation works like this, since Adelman can't have more than 3 starters sitting for more than a minute or two, our bench is so bad.

Rubio plays the first 9 minutes of the half, and last 7 minutes of the half.
Love plays the first 14 minutes of the half, and last 5-6 minutes of the half.
Pek plays the first 9 minutes of the half, and last 10 minutes of the half.
SF, Brewer starts, plays the minutes his level of play deserves, or its LMM
Martin plays the first 8 minutes of the half, and last 8 minutes of the half.

So really, its all mixed up. I can tell you our offense is **** with Love sitting. All the time. But Rubio essentially plays all but roughly 2-4 minutes a game without Love.

Rain City
12-30-2013, 04:18 PM
this just in. ricky Rubio is a bust.

i hate it when pundits fall in love with commercial appeal. a dreamy Italian kid, with advanced abilities compared to Europe, was able to have a cute highlight tape while still a teenager. but cmon, fans like myself could see a mile away the guy had more holes in his game than swiss cheese.

PG is an unbelievably competitive position, most are 2x the athlete as Rubio and it is easy to see.. they have battled it out dozens of times before even facing off in the NBA. i cant believe experts had the audacity to think he could hold his own.

i was saying the same about adam Morrison. watched him at least 30 times in college and some in HS. commercial appeal, but one trick pony and laughable NBA athlete.

Nick O
12-31-2013, 12:53 AM
we get it, you are Rubio's #1 hater, you saw from the beginning that he was ineffective with his shooting, and you want everyone to know how early you saw it.

i also saw from the beginning that he should have been a second rounder at best. but ya essentially. i dont understand how anyone could ever think he was going to be good. i just cant grasp it

John Walls Era
12-31-2013, 01:01 AM
I thought I was the original Rubio hater? Since 2008 when Jennings went to Europe and they refused to play him to make Rubio look better.

Duncan = Donkey
12-31-2013, 01:04 AM
yeah dude is Average with a capital A, maybe im being generous

Nick O
12-31-2013, 01:09 AM
I thought I was the original Rubio hater? Since 2008 when Jennings went to Europe and they refused to play him to make Rubio look better.

disliked him since ive heard of him and studied him.

Guppyfighter
12-31-2013, 09:44 AM
"I disliked Rubio before it was cool."