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View Full Version : Knicks' division to lose with everyone else tanking.



jimm120
12-24-2013, 05:06 PM
Boston was supposed to be tanking this year and even many fans are mad that they're doing so well (well, still a losing record but well in the sens that they'd be IN the playoffs).

76'ers are tanking. That's why Holiday was shipped out. That's why Turner is gonna be shipped out.

Toronto...they want to tank but now that they're winning, they still want to tank but with some doubt.



""#Nets exec told group of ticket holders Monday that team could be "sellers" in trades, will wait till closer to trade deadline to decide""

So, Nets seem as if they're gonna give up if they continue this way. They'll sell on Deron and get what they can for Garnett, Pierce, and some of their bench guys. These guys were the "only" competition for the Knicks.



Do you foresee a scenario in which the Knicks do NOT get to the playoffs with this as their competition?

beasted86
12-24-2013, 05:14 PM
Knicks and Nets are a disgrace. Neither of them deserve a playoff spot.

If you would have told me before the season that over 1/4 way into the season, the Knicks and Nets would need to double their wins just to get to .500 I would have laughed in your face. No defense-playing, ball-hogging, no-accountablity-having losers should not make the playoffs. I pray that by some miracle Toronto reconsiders tanking.

jimm120
12-24-2013, 05:27 PM
Knicks and Nets have surely been disappointments.

With the Knicks, I feel its been the coaching. When you're players aren't performing (JR Smith, Shumpert, Bargs sometimes, Metta, etc), you alter things. You don't continue to start them and letting them put up over 16 shots a game (JR smith). Plus, the Knicks play super slow and reliant on outside shooting/ISO plays. That's not the players, that's thee coach.

With the Nets...its just an overrated roster. Kind of like the Lakers roster last year. Bad coach (not that Kidd is bad...just that he's not ready, I think). Garnett got worse. Pierce, who has been pretty good the past few years, got a lot worse. Deron hasn't been great/star-like since Sloan. His time with the Nets has been a disappointment. Brook was their only legit guy and look what happened. Used to be brittle but lasted a whole year without injury but look what happened now.

IndyRealist
12-24-2013, 05:36 PM
Toronto's not tanking. The only reason to think that is if you believe Rudy Gay is a winner, which he is not. In a single year they managed to move two of the most untradeable contracts in the NBA, and get pieces and picks in return. They're doing pretty well considering what they had to work with.

On Boston, Knicks4Life posted a nice graphic of the Nets picks for the next 4 years, and basically Boston either gets their pick, or has the right to swap picks. So with the Nets doing so poorly the Celtics have NO reason to tank. Brad Stevens is coaching the he!! out of that team, and playing near optimal lineups considering the players he has.

AddiX
12-24-2013, 05:38 PM
I don't even care if this Knicks team gets in the playoffs as crazy as that sounds.

I don't like watching this team play, I don't like the make up of the team, or there inability to remember everything that made them good last year.

Lasts years team I really enjoyed watching, they moved the ball, played defense, took a limited amount of bad shots, always seemed to find the open man, there defensive rotations were beautiful. The lack of Amare was beautiful. It's amazing just how much all those vets we lost, had brought to the team. I never imagined it was that big of a difference. And now I know exactly why we had all those vets. Because this tea couldn't keep it together without them.

But this current team, F em, trade em all, rebuild with young guys, Ive been over this free agency game since the zeke years, I want to develop our own guys, that includes shipping melo away.

Jamiecballer
12-24-2013, 05:41 PM
Unless they give up the raptors will win this division with the Knicks second.

bholly
12-24-2013, 07:33 PM
Pretty sure the Sixers are the only team who've done anything that could be called tanking. Sucking isn't the same thing. All four other teams have been trying to win and improve.

THE MTL
12-24-2013, 07:39 PM
With the Knicks nothing is a given! I've learned that over the years.

THE MTL
12-24-2013, 07:41 PM
And I highly doubt the Nets giving up. They traded 3 picks ('14, '16, '18) to the Celtics. You cant tank when u have no picks.

leprechaun5
12-24-2013, 07:46 PM
Dumb thread .

BALLER R
12-24-2013, 07:57 PM
This division is the Raptors to lose. Let's be real here

Beltrans Mole
12-24-2013, 08:03 PM
This division is the Raptors to lose. Let's be real here

LOL okay. Theres more than 50 games left to be played in the season for crying out loud. The Knicks and Nets are both 2.5 games out of the 4 seed. Let's calm down.

shep33
12-24-2013, 08:08 PM
Knicks and Nets have surely been disappointments.

With the Knicks, I feel its been the coaching. When you're players aren't performing (JR Smith, Shumpert, Bargs sometimes, Metta, etc), you alter things. You don't continue to start them and letting them put up over 16 shots a game (JR smith). Plus, the Knicks play super slow and reliant on outside shooting/ISO plays. That's not the players, that's thee coach.

With the Nets...its just an overrated roster. Kind of like the Lakers roster last year. Bad coach (not that Kidd is bad...just that he's not ready, I think). Garnett got worse. Pierce, who has been pretty good the past few years, got a lot worse. Deron hasn't been great/star-like since Sloan. His time with the Nets has been a disappointment. Brook was their only legit guy and look what happened. Used to be brittle but lasted a whole year without injury but look what happened now.

The Lakers despite their injuries still managed to win 45 games in a brutal western conference.

Utd7
12-24-2013, 08:50 PM
Nets are not tanking with no 1st round picks until 2019 I believe.

KnicksorBust
12-24-2013, 08:56 PM
Knicks need to steal Lowry. Simultaneously downgrade tor and upgrade nyk. Now that Chandler is back the Knicks will get back in the hunt.

mjt20mik
12-24-2013, 09:04 PM
Knicks need to steal Lowry. Simultaneously downgrade tor and upgrade nyk. Now that Chandler is back the Knicks will get back in the hunt.

Lowry isn't going to NY without a first rounder. Dolan doesn't want to give it away.

bholly
12-24-2013, 09:41 PM
Yeah, hard to see NYK getting Lowry without giving up what they (so far) aren't willing to.


At this point, it isn't the Knicks' to lose anymore than anyone else's - there are 4 teams for which it would be completely unsurprising if they won the division, and any of those four teams could step it up just a small amount and waltz away with it - and (unless management makes a conscious decision not to try) all four should be really disappointed in themselves if they don't.

KnicksorBust
12-24-2013, 09:47 PM
Yeah, hard to see NYK getting Lowry without giving up what they (so far) aren't willing to.


At this point, it isn't the Knicks' to lose anymore than anyone else's - there are 4 teams for which it would be completely unsurprising if they won the division, and any of those four teams could step it up just a small amount and waltz away with it - and (unless management makes a conscious decision not to try) all four should be really disappointed in themselves if they don't.

The Raps were allegedly eyeing Shumpert-HardawayJr-1st. As an expiring average pg they are greatly overvaluing him. Fortunately for them the Knicks have one of the 3 worst pgs in the nba so average would be a huge step forward...

bholly
12-24-2013, 11:02 PM
Also the Knicks have a seriously bad FO and a building sense of desperation, so the Raptors have that in their favour - if that's what the Raptors were eyeing it's because it's what they think they can get, not what they think he's necessarily worth.

Chrisclover
12-25-2013, 01:24 AM
laughingstocks .i hate to see teams tanking .

thekmp211
12-25-2013, 01:30 AM
Knicks need to steal Lowry. Simultaneously downgrade tor and upgrade nyk. Now that Chandler is back the Knicks will get back in the hunt.

not sure why many knicks fans are down on him. dude is exactly what they need, he'd be a massive upgrade on both ends.

beasted86
12-25-2013, 02:26 AM
not sure why many knicks fans are down on him. dude is exactly what they need, he'd be a massive upgrade on both ends.

Because he seems to clash with the coaches wherever he goes and is also an expiring that could walk for nothing if you give up draft picks or guys on rookie deals like Shumpert or Hardaway.

mjt20mik
12-25-2013, 02:32 AM
Because he seems to clash with the coaches wherever he goes and is also an expiring that could walk for nothing if you give up draft picks or guys on rookie deals like Shumpert or Hardaway.

Well I'm pretty sure the deal was either Shump / Hardaway, and a 1st and Felton.

thekmp211
12-25-2013, 02:39 AM
Because he seems to clash with the coaches wherever he goes and is also an expiring that could walk for nothing if you give up draft picks or guys on rookie deals like Shumpert or Hardaway.

see no reason not to move shumpert for lowry at this point. his stock is super-low and frankly he needs a change of scenery.

if the knicks intend on competing this season, they have to do something at the position. their current options even when healthy are laughable and right now it's down right pathetic to see a team so weak at PG in the NBA in 2013.

bucketss
12-25-2013, 02:57 AM
see no reason not to move shumpert for lowry at this point. his stock is super-low and frankly he needs a change of scenery.

if the knicks intend on competing this season, they have to do something at the position. their current options even when healthy are laughable and right now it's down right pathetic to see a team so weak at PG in the NBA in 2013.

do you guys have a pick this year?

thekmp211
12-25-2013, 03:18 AM
do you guys have a pick this year?

im a celtics fan, but no knicks have no pick in the upcoming draft.

FriedTofuz
12-25-2013, 03:33 AM
OKAY, to anyone who thinks lowry is average is crazy. Lowry has been playing out of his mind, he's leading the raptors to winning games. Derozan has been disappointing in clutch situations, but it's been all lowry. The team is
5-3 without rudy gay, and a few of those teams were above .500 with some very special wins over Dallas and OKC on their home court. Lowry has been averaging 17/8 with about 5 boards and a couple of steals and very high field goal percentages from FT and 3PT as well as field goal. The knicks will make the playoffs and suck in the first round. The front office of the knicks is ****ing stupid ,Dolan is a ******. The sooner they give up a 1st for lowry, the better. if they dont, melo will bolt cus this team sucks and the 2016 pick will be valuable for the raptors anyways.

FriedTofuz
12-25-2013, 03:34 AM
:speechless:you dont have to be a knick fan or net fan to know they dont have picks, both of their front offices are retards. From the start, trading 3 first round picks hoping the nets would click instantly and win a championshipwas a reallly stupid wish. It took miami a year to click before they won the championship. Prokey needs to wake up from his ego and realize you have to build your team, it doesnt happen over night. Celtics made a good move, acquired expirings, picks, and are tanking in a good draft. They have a bright future.

Raps_93
12-25-2013, 07:02 AM
Because he seems to clash with the coaches wherever he goes and is also an expiring that could walk for nothing if you give up draft picks or guys on rookie deals like Shumpert or Hardaway.

He has been great attitude wise in T.O.He kinda clashed at the beginning at the calderon/lowry controversy,but has been great since. Lowrys not a average player, hes a borderline all-star. You have to give away good things to get good players.

Anthony has a player option after this year i think (correct me if im wrong) Lowry can be the player the knicks need,and keep Anthony in that knicks jersey.Lowry will probably stay to have the starting job and be the undisputed #1.

KnicksorBust
12-25-2013, 09:02 AM
OKAY, to anyone who thinks lowry is average is crazy. Lowry has been playing out of his mind, he's leading the raptors to winning games. Derozan has been disappointing in clutch situations, but it's been all lowry. The team is
5-3 without rudy gay, and a few of those teams were above .500 with some very special wins over Dallas and OKC on their home court. Lowry has been averaging 17/8 with about 5 boards and a couple of steals and very high field goal percentages from FT and 3PT as well as field goal. The knicks will make the playoffs and suck in the first round. The front office of the knicks is ****ing stupid ,Dolan is a ******. The sooner they give up a 1st for lowry, the better. if they dont, melo will bolt cus this team sucks and the 2016 pick will be valuable for the raptors anyways.

Then throw me in a padded room.

Paul
Curry
Westy
Parker
Rose
Deron
Irving
Conley
Wall
Lillard
Lawson
MCW
Bledsoe
Holiday
Teague
Rubio
I.Thomas

I listed 17 but Lowry is in the range of 15 which would make him average in a 30 team league.

jp611
12-25-2013, 09:11 AM
Nets can tank all they want. But they'll be giving their draft pick to the Hawks regardless.

Guppyfighter
12-25-2013, 10:44 AM
Then throw me in a padded room.

Paul
Curry
Westy
Parker
Rose
Deron
Irving
Conley
Wall
Lillard
Lawson
MCW
Bledsoe
Holiday
Teague
Rubio
I.Thomas

I listed 17 but Lowry is in the range of 15 which would make him average in a 30 team league.


He's clearly better than these three.

GiantsSwaGG
12-25-2013, 11:06 AM
Knicks sucks...

#trademelo

SeoulBeatz
12-25-2013, 11:22 AM
Like I've mentioned in other threads, I'm ****ing pissed at how awful the Knicks and Nets are.

They're so bad they're actually making tanking DIFFICULT for my Sixers.

Prior to the season I saw the Knicks and Nets as 45-50+ win teams.

Regardless of the preconceived notions of both squads, I thought they'd win that many games by default because of how awful the East/ Atlantic are this year. They both have very talented, but terribly constructed, and aging squads. What's worse for both sides is they have awful contracts and a SEVERE lack of 1st round picks in the next few years.

I honestly don't know what either team can do to improve their rosters because they're both completely strapped for cash, have barely any tradable assets, and no picks.

That's an awful place to be.

When it comes to the Nets, it's obvious who's to blame.... Billy "I'm going to give Samuel Dalembert $60,000,000 for nothing" King.

He completely ****ed the Sixers and now he's doing the same to the Nets.

SeoulBeatz
12-25-2013, 11:25 AM
Lowry isn't going to NY without a first rounder. Dolan doesn't want to give it away.

I don't blame Dolan, Kyle Lowry isn't a difference maker and isn't worth one of the last 1sts the Knicks have.

If they're going to trade away a 1st it better be for something more.

Sly Guy
12-25-2013, 11:37 AM
Then throw me in a padded room.

Paul
Curry
Westy
Parker
Rose
Deron
Irving
Conley
Wall
Lillard
Lawson
MCW
Bledsoe
Holiday
Teague
Rubio
I.Thomas

I listed 17 but Lowry is in the range of 15 which would make him average in a 30 team league.

I would throw you in a padded room for such a list.

I'd put lowry, especially this year, above all the bolded players. And anybody who's read the raps forum regularly will remember I have been far from the biggest lowry supporter.

Guppyfighter
12-25-2013, 11:39 AM
Well, if we are just going off of this year, he has been much better than Irving too.

Sly Guy
12-25-2013, 11:44 AM
Well, if we are just going off of this year, he has been much better than Irving too.

agreed, but that would have been more of a debate, which is why I didn't bold him too. If you don't believe the job lowry's doing, just look at his basic stats, don't even need advanced metrics to see how/why we rate him far more highly in toronto than everyone else does. He's playing exceptionally well.

KnicksorBust
12-25-2013, 12:05 PM
Then throw me in a padded room.

Paul
Curry
Westy
Parker
Rose
Deron
Irving
Conley
Wall
Lillard
Lawson
MCW
Bledsoe
Holiday
Teague
Rubio
I.Thomas

I listed 17 but Lowry is in the range of 15 which would make him average in a 30 team league.


He's clearly better than these three.

You would be hard pressed to find a gm that would take Lowry over those 3 especially MCW. Even so, that would put him 14th... an average ranking.

KnicksorBust
12-25-2013, 12:13 PM
Then throw me in a padded room.

Paul
Curry
Westy
Parker
Rose
Deron
Irving
Conley
Wall
Lillard
Lawson
MCW
Bledsoe
Holiday
Teague
Rubio
I.Thomas

I listed 17 but Lowry is in the range of 15 which would make him average in a 30 team league.

I would throw you in a padded room for such a list.

I'd put lowry, especially this year, above all the bolded players. And anybody who's read the raps forum regularly will remember I have been far from the biggest lowry supporter.

You might be my new roommate in that padded room saying you would rather have Lowry than Deron Williams or young studs like MCW-Bledsoe.

KniCks4LiFe
12-25-2013, 12:26 PM
This really is Boston's division to lose. :laugh2:

Nets can't tank, but they can't rebound literally and figuratively.

The Knicks. We just suck. [that's me being honest] The coach sucks, the players have no heart [other than Tyson Chandler] and we're a M.A.S.H. unit.

Pablo is old, Felton is old [and useless], K-Mart is old, Stat is old and broken down, that's like 4 guys the Knicks count on so much.

Add a nutjob in JR Smith, a waste of space in his brother Chris [HOW IS THIS GUY IN THE NBA? HOW! IS THAT EVEN LOGICAL? WE'RE M.A.S.H. UNIT, SETH CURRY IS GOING TO THE GRIZZLES BUT THIS MOTHAF**** STAYS ON A ROSTER!], Beno is a part time, Shump is mad at the world [actually he's mad at Melo and the coach's nonsense and double standards]

The only plus has been Tim Hardaway Jr. which if we're in trade talks is the 1st name teams are asking for. [and trust me there is nothing his daddy would want more than to get his son out of this circus]

Eagles4Lyfe
12-25-2013, 12:50 PM
The Raps were allegedly eyeing Shumpert-HardawayJr-1st. As an expiring average pg they are greatly overvaluing him. Fortunately for them the Knicks have one of the 3 worst pgs in the nba so average would be a huge step forward...

I don't know how your cap space is but you can retain him too in the off season.



You might be my new roommate in that padded room saying you would rather have Lowry than Deron Williams or young studs like MCW-Bledsoe.

Cmon KOB even you have to admit you were reaching with half that list.

I agree though with this part, based on your last post based of potential, I'd take MCW, Kyrie, Bledsoe, Lillard etc.

But for the Knicks who are desperate for production from the PG spot in the way of defense, good shooting and shouldering some load of Melo without having to chuck you won't be able to get one for as cheap as you can get Lowry.

But if you guys want to say Lowry is average, then why do you hype up Shumpert so much when he's way below average from the SG spot?

If I was your team I'd be more worried about giving up Hardaway over that pick and Shumpert.

bholly
12-25-2013, 12:57 PM
Like I've mentioned in other threads, I'm ****ing pissed at how awful the Knicks and Nets are.

They're so bad they're actually making tanking DIFFICULT for my Sixers.

Prior to the season I saw the Knicks and Nets as 45-50+ win teams.

Regardless of the preconceived notions of both squads, I thought they'd win that many games by default because of how awful the East/ Atlantic are this year. They both have very talented, but terribly constructed, and aging squads. What's worse for both sides is they have awful contracts and a SEVERE lack of 1st round picks in the next few years.

I honestly don't know what either team can do to improve their rosters because they're both completely strapped for cash, have barely any tradable assets, and no picks.

That's an awful place to be.

When it comes to the Nets, it's obvious who's to blame.... Billy "I'm going to give Samuel Dalembert $60,000,000 for nothing" King.

He completely ****ed the Sixers and now he's doing the same to the Nets.

It'll be a problem for me if they actually challenge us in the standings through to the end of the year. Right now that could be very possible once MCW is back full time, but you have to expect both teams will turn it back around at least a little bit and we'll clear a gap between us and them.


You would be hard pressed to find a gm that would take Lowry over those 3 especially MCW. Even so, that would put him 14th... an average ranking.


You might be my new roommate in that padded room saying you would rather have Lowry than Deron Williams or young studs like MCW-Bledsoe.

There's a huge difference between how good a player is right now, and which one a GM would take right now given age and contract and all that. People are talking about the former, you're confusing it with the latter.

thekmp211
12-25-2013, 12:57 PM
Then throw me in a padded room.

Paul
Curry
Westy
Parker
Rose
Deron
Irving
Conley
Wall
Lillard
Lawson
MCW
Bledsoe
Holiday
Teague
Rubio
I.Thomas

I listed 17 but Lowry is in the range of 15 which would make him average in a 30 team league.

rose is hurt. lowry is flat out better than deron at this point, same with rubio and MCW. the thomas/teague/bledsoes of the world still have more to prove.

at least he gives you a fighting chance against those elite guards, and you know he won't mail games in.

bholly
12-25-2013, 01:12 PM
Worth noting that Lowry is seriously good defensively, which always gets massively underrated in these sorts of discussions.

blahblahyoutoo
12-25-2013, 01:43 PM
Knicks need to steal Lowry. Simultaneously downgrade tor and upgrade nyk. Now that Chandler is back the Knicks will get back in the hunt.
Knicks IS BACK!

blahblahyoutoo
12-25-2013, 01:44 PM
not sure why many knicks fans are down on him. dude is exactly what they need, he'd be a massive upgrade on both ends.

yup, lowry would be a massive upgrade. i like his game.

blahblahyoutoo
12-25-2013, 01:46 PM
With the Knicks, I feel its been the coaching. When you're players aren't performing (JR Smith, Shumpert, Bargs sometimes, Metta, etc), you alter things. You don't continue to start them and letting them put up over 16 shots a game (JR smith). Plus, the Knicks play super slow and reliant on outside shooting/ISO plays. That's not the players, that's thee coach.


that's unpossible!!111!!
woodson was COYC last year and coached them to an 18-6 start. knicks fans couldn't have been more ecstatic when dantoni resigned and woodson took over!
now less than a year later, he's a horrible coach?!?!?!11!

FriedTofuz
12-25-2013, 08:02 PM
irvings team hasnt won jack ****. isiah thomas is not better than lowry. Lowry is at least a top 15 pg. He's even better than deron at this point, he's actually leading his team to wins, what the **** is deron doing?

TylerSL
12-26-2013, 02:07 AM
this division is nobodys to lose. Philly is tanking, and all the other teams suck. Tanking is trying to lose games which is clearly not happening with these other teams. Its clear that the Knicks and Nets are trying/expecting to win, and the Celtics are going out and trying to compete. Toronto is not trying to lose IMO, but they do not care too much if they win. The Celtics, Knicks, Nets, and Raptors are all going to struggle to get to .500 all season and one of those teams will be a top 4 seed, which is both laughable and a disgrace.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-26-2013, 02:11 AM
If they trade for Lowry, we can start this tank party in the Atlantic already.

TylerSL
12-26-2013, 02:13 AM
that's unpossible!!111!!
woodson was COYC last year and coached them to an 18-6 start. knicks fans couldn't have been more ecstatic when dantoni resigned and woodson took over!
now less than a year later, he's a horrible coach?!?!?!11!

Have you watched the Knicks this season? It's clear that Woodson has no control of this team. They play 5v2 on offense and don't even know how to rotate on defense. Thats not all the players, thats not being prepared to play NBA level basketball, which is on the coach.

bholly
12-26-2013, 02:13 AM
this division is nobodys to lose. Philly is tanking, and all the other teams suck. Tanking is trying to lose games which is clearly not happening with these other teams. Its clear that the Knicks and Nets are trying/expecting to win, and the Celtics are going out and trying to compete. Toronto is not trying to lose IMO, but they do not care too much if they win. The Celtics, Knicks, Nets, and Raptors are all going to struggle to get to .500 all season and one of those teams will be a top 4 seed, which is both laughable and a disgrace.

Philly aren't trying to lose games, they just put together an awful roster knowing it would be awful.

TylerSL
12-26-2013, 02:16 AM
Philly aren't trying to lose games, they just put together an awful roster knowing it would be awful.

thanks for the correction, but that too would be considered tanking as well. Just curious, is most of the roster on 1 or 2 year deals?

Riodagoat
12-26-2013, 02:20 AM
Nets and Knicks have been disgusting but they will still be in the playoffs.

bholly
12-26-2013, 02:27 AM
thanks for the correction, but that too would be considered tanking as well. Just curious, is most of the roster on 1 or 2 year deals?

I mean, that's become a common usage of the word tanking, but I thought the point of your post was taking it back to its original meaning (seeing as you said 'tanking is trying to lose games'). That's why I didn't say 'Philly aren't tanking' I said 'Philly aren't trying to lose games'. So I'm confused, but whatever.

We've got Thad, JRich, and 10 guys on rookie deals (6 non-guaranteed) next offseason for a total of $24m. Turner is an RFA too.
The next offseason it's just Thad and 9 guys on rookie contracts - 5 non guaranteed and the other 4 team options, for a total of $20m.

jimm120
12-26-2013, 02:41 AM
that's unpossible!!111!!
woodson was COYC last year and coached them to an 18-6 start. knicks fans couldn't have been more ecstatic when dantoni resigned and woodson took over!
now less than a year later, he's a horrible coach?!?!?!11!


Dude...Dantoni sucks. Woodson deserved at least a slight mention for coy simply on the Knicks getting to 54 wins. Last year, we all saw some of these problems...it's just that this year it's even worse plus his lineups have gotten worse.

jimm120
12-26-2013, 02:43 AM
Have you watched the Knicks this season? It's clear that Woodson has no control of this team. They play 5v2 on offense and don't even know how to rotate on defense. Thats not all the players, thats not being prepared to play NBA level basketball, which is on the coach.

Have you seen the switching defense? Worst part is that for 20 games, Woodson kept saying, "yeah, pg and center switch too). We got burnt so much because of that

Chronz
12-26-2013, 02:44 AM
lol at what it takes the knicks to win

jimm120
12-26-2013, 02:46 AM
After readi g everything, I just have to say that IF THE NETS OPT TO TRADE THEIR ASSETS, then they'd be tanking since they'd give up on this year. Who are their assets? Deron and Lopez. Pierce and garnet mig also bring back a late round pick. So to get those picks, you trade away your good players.


It's. It that they'll tank to get a high pick. They don't have picks. It's about trading their UBS so that they can get other teams' picks.

Jamiecballer
12-26-2013, 09:39 AM
Tanking sounds so disgraceful.... Let's just call it un-competing

cssdmark
12-26-2013, 10:28 AM
The Knicks do not need to trade for Lowry as all it would do is infect him, he would stop driving to the basket, stop passing the ball, take contested 20 plus jump shots and will not play defense or give effort. Yes part of the Knicks problem is point guard play but a point guard cannot change the things listed above. This team should be in first in the Atlantic if they would just play fundamental basketball, should be in the playoffs with a first round series win, that is as far as I will go. This coach has lost the team and he has no answers, just comments about how we are not doing this or that after each loss, but no changes. Whoever has our 1st has a lotto pick this year unless we fire this coach and hire a hard *** to get these lazy ****s playing. They need a coach a Knight type coach to get in their face

blahblahyoutoo
12-26-2013, 10:34 AM
Dude...Dantoni sucks. Woodson deserved at least a slight mention for coy simply on the Knicks getting to 54 wins. Last year, we all saw some of these problems...it's just that this year it's even worse plus his lineups have gotten worse.

i dunno... melo quit on dantoni and that disrupted the team chemistry.
as JVG said in yesterday's broadcast. dantoni's got the most out of this young lakers squad with no superstars. their starters probably would be on the end of the bench on other teams. the lakers are playing like a cohesive unit. at the very least, it's a fun team to watch.

the knicks? like a chicken with its head cut off. this is how their game looks when the 3's aren't falling, like many predicted last year.
iso melo, chucking JR who got booed everytime he touched the ball last night.

the lakers have a better record in a tougher conference and SOS and with less talent. seems like the suckier of the two is potato head, not pringles.

koreancabbage
12-26-2013, 10:40 AM
Pretty sure the Sixers are the only team who've done anything that could be called tanking. Sucking isn't the same thing. All four other teams have been trying to win and improve.

how so? they haven't traded away Turner or Young? They just aren't that good either

KnicksorBust
12-26-2013, 10:56 AM
The Knicks do not need to trade for Lowry as all it would do is infect him, he would stop driving to the basket, stop passing the ball, take contested 20 plus jump shots and will not play defense or give effort. Yes part of the Knicks problem is point guard play but a point guard cannot change the things listed above. This team should be in first in the Atlantic if they would just play fundamental basketball, should be in the playoffs with a first round series win, that is as far as I will go. This coach has lost the team and he has no answers, just comments about how we are not doing this or that after each loss, but no changes. Whoever has our 1st has a lotto pick this year unless we fire this coach and hire a hard *** to get these lazy ****s playing. They need a coach a Knight type coach to get in their face

That's exactly what a PG can do. Lowry would improve our perimeter defense (Have you seen Beno Udrih try and keep guards in front of him?) which would take some of the pressure off our frontcourt (Have you seen Bargnani or Stoudemire try and play help defense?). His shooting would help space the floor. And he would cut down on Carmelo and JR's usage. They wouldn't have to force as much on offense with a consistent 3rd option.

SeoulBeatz
12-26-2013, 11:16 AM
how so? they haven't traded away Turner or Young? They just aren't that good either

Take a look at the Sixers roster and tell me this team isn't tanking.

Or maybe trading Jrue Holiday for an injured first round pick and a FUTURE first is a good way to compete THIS season.

SeoulBeatz
12-26-2013, 11:20 AM
That's exactly what a PG can do. Lowry would improve our perimeter defense (Have you seen Beno Udrih try and keep guards in front of him?) which would take some of the pressure off our frontcourt (Have you seen Bargnani or Stoudemire try and play help defense?). His shooting would help space the floor. And he would cut down on Carmelo and JR's usage. They wouldn't have to force as much on offense with a consistent 3rd option.

It's a shame the Knicks don't have more trade assets because I think Rondo would be an instant fix to most of your woes.

justinnum1
12-26-2013, 11:21 AM
raptors>knicks

Knicks are the biggest joke in the NBA.

They back!

:laugh:

bholly
12-26-2013, 11:54 AM
how so? they haven't traded away Turner or Young? They just aren't that good either

Trading a 23yo All-Star, letting all other FAs walk without even an attempt to negotiate (Wright, Young, Bynum), not pursuing any FAs, filling out the roster with unheard of guys. They pretty clearly made the roster knowing it would be really bad. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with it, and I don't think it's 'tanking' in the traditional sense, but it's tanking in the way everybody has been using the word this season. If they didn't tank then nobody did.

MonroeFAN
12-26-2013, 12:14 PM
You're upset that your front office didn't resign Andrew Bynum?

My guess is several Cav's fans, who actually have a good roster and are equally as crappy as you guys would gladly give him back to you. The rest of the players you mentioned are role players, why resign them when you guys aren't close to being able to compete?

I personally think the 76er's front office did a great job this off-season.

bholly
12-26-2013, 12:55 PM
lol, what? I'm absolutely not upset - hence 'I don't have a problem with it'. I've been optimistic about our FO since we hired Hinkie and thrilled since the moment I sat down and saw the Jrue trade. I love what they're doing, including (and especially) letting Bynum walk.

I wasn't complaining, I was listing the things we've done that fit into the new definition of tanking - ie the things that we've done that would make us worse this season.

MonroeFAN
12-26-2013, 01:00 PM
I'm sorry I must have not read that carefully enough.

North Yorker
12-26-2013, 01:01 PM
Holiday was always overrated. Probably didn't deserve being an All-Star anyways. Philly sold high.

bholly
12-26-2013, 01:14 PM
I'm sorry I must have not read that carefully enough.

No problem, man.


Holiday was always overrated. Probably didn't deserve being an All-Star anyways. Philly sold high.

Agreed, it was a really good move for us - but this season the difference it makes is that instead of Jrue playing, we have Noel not playing, and that makes us worse.

2-ONE-5
12-26-2013, 01:14 PM
Toronto's not tanking. The only reason to think that is if you believe Rudy Gay is a winner, which he is not. In a single year they managed to move two of the most untradeable contracts in the NBA, and get pieces and picks in return. They're doing pretty well considering what they had to work with.

On Boston, Knicks4Life posted a nice graphic of the Nets picks for the next 4 years, and basically Boston either gets their pick, or has the right to swap picks. So with the Nets doing so poorly the Celtics have NO reason to tank. Brad Stevens is coaching the he!! out of that team, and playing near optimal lineups considering the players he has.

Lowry and Derozand are on the block, they are tanking

2-ONE-5
12-26-2013, 01:17 PM
No problem, man.



Agreed, it was a really good move for us - but this season the difference it makes is that instead of Jrue playing, we have Noel not playing, and that makes us worse.

i dont know Jrue started slow but he has been really good the last month

jimm120
12-26-2013, 01:18 PM
i dunno... melo quit on dantoni and that disrupted the team chemistry.
as JVG said in yesterday's broadcast. dantoni's got the most out of this young lakers squad with no superstars. their starters probably would be on the end of the bench on other teams. the lakers are playing like a cohesive unit. at the very least, it's a fun team to watch.

the knicks? like a chicken with its head cut off. this is how their game looks when the 3's aren't falling, like many predicted last year.
iso melo, chucking JR who got booed everytime he touched the ball last night.

the lakers have a better record in a tougher conference and SOS and with less talent. seems like the suckier of the two is potato head, not pringles.



I';ve said this MANY times before: Dantoni is a good coach for getting Bad teams to be mediocre/average. he did it witht he Knicks in 2008 and 2009. That said, he's a horrible coach to get a good team to be great, a great team to be elite, or an average team to be good. Average, good, and great teams usually regress and become average to below average with him.

And please don't point out phoenix. That was long ago. That was at a time when HE was the only one using some of his coaching mechanics. Once the rest of the league noticed this new thing, they adopted teh GOOD parts of his system and implemented them even better.

So, I'm not surprised that he coached a good laker team last year to be average. I'm not surprised he's coached a bad laker team this year to be average.

blahblahyoutoo
12-26-2013, 01:26 PM
I';ve said this MANY times before: Dantoni is a good coach for getting Bad teams to be mediocre/average. he did it witht he Knicks in 2008 and 2009. That said, he's a horrible coach to get a good team to be great, a great team to be elite, or an average team to be good. Average, good, and great teams usually regress and become average to below average with him.

And please don't point out phoenix. That was long ago. That was at a time when HE was the only one using some of his coaching mechanics. Once the rest of the league noticed this new thing, they adopted teh GOOD parts of his system and implemented them even better.

So, I'm not surprised that he coached a good laker team last year to be average. I'm not surprised he's coached a bad laker team this year to be average.

ok, so how great is woodson?
he seems to be doing a bang up job taking a team with great talent to never before seen lows lol.

akagiredsuns
12-26-2013, 01:37 PM
Knicks need to steal Lowry. Simultaneously downgrade tor and upgrade nyk. Now that Chandler is back the Knicks will get back in the hunt.

Do you really think the Raptors are gonna trade Lowry within the division now knowing the Knicks are struggling and TOR doing good? Exercise some common sense. This was a good idea a month ago. It isn't now. TOR is going to ride it out the rest of the season even if the division winner is like 37-45.

I hope the NBA just makes 2 conferences with the Top 8 teams getting in. It's BS that BOS or TOR would host a playoff series if the team they're playing is 10 games better than them.

North Yorker
12-26-2013, 07:18 PM
Do you really think the Raptors are gonna trade Lowry within the division now knowing the Knicks are struggling and TOR doing good? Exercise some common sense. This was a good idea a month ago. It isn't now. TOR is going to ride it out the rest of the season even if the division winner is like 37-45.

I hope the NBA just makes 2 conferences with the Top 8 teams getting in. It's BS that BOS or TOR would host a playoff series if the team they're playing is 10 games better than them.

That can't happen iirc.

SeoulBeatz
12-26-2013, 07:28 PM
Holiday was always overrated. Probably didn't deserve being an All-Star anyways. Philly sold high.

I agree. He put up all-star caliber numbers but I have a hard time seeing him making another one the rest of his career. But he's a very good two-way PG in the ilk of Chauncey Billups and I think we got a great haul for him.

I love Sam Hinkie as our GM. He's running the team like a franchise in 2k. Get all the young assets/picks as possible while conserving cap room.

TrueFan420
12-26-2013, 08:13 PM
Do you really think the Raptors are gonna trade Lowry within the division now knowing the Knicks are struggling and TOR doing good? Exercise some common sense. This was a good idea a month ago. It isn't now. TOR is going to ride it out the rest of the season even if the division winner is like 37-45.

I hope the NBA just makes 2 conferences with the Top 8 teams getting in. It's BS that BOS or TOR would host a playoff series if the team they're playing is 10 games better than them.
Don't worry that won't happen with only 3 teams in the east over .500 and 2 or 3 close to .500

TrueFan420
12-26-2013, 08:14 PM
I agree. He put up all-star caliber numbers but I have a hard time seeing him making another one the rest of his career. But he's a very good two-way PG in the ilk of Chauncey Billups and I think we got a great haul for him.

I love Sam Hinkie as our GM. He's running the team like a franchise in 2k. Get all the young assets/picks as possible while conserving cap room.
He's in the west now and as long as he remains there he won't make it

ohreally
12-26-2013, 08:17 PM
Knicks and Nets have surely been disappointments.

With the Knicks, I feel its been the coaching. When you're players aren't performing (JR Smith, Shumpert, Bargs sometimes, Metta, etc), you alter things. You don't continue to start them and letting them put up over 16 shots a game (JR smith). Plus, the Knicks play super slow and reliant on outside shooting/ISO plays. That's not the players, that's thee coach.

With the Nets...its just an overrated roster. Kind of like the Lakers roster last year. Bad coach (not that Kidd is bad...just that he's not ready, I think). Garnett got worse. Pierce, who has been pretty good the past few years, got a lot worse. Deron hasn't been great/star-like since Sloan. His time with the Nets has been a disappointment. Brook was their only legit guy and look what happened. Used to be brittle but lasted a whole year without injury but look what happened now.

Nets have worse coaching than the Knicks and Knicks have a worse roster than the Nets. Knicks' division to lose? The division is pitiful, but Knicks have no edge whatsoever.

bholly
12-26-2013, 09:03 PM
Do you really think the Raptors are gonna trade Lowry within the division now knowing the Knicks are struggling and TOR doing good? Exercise some common sense. This was a good idea a month ago. It isn't now. TOR is going to ride it out the rest of the season even if the division winner is like 37-45.

I hope the NBA just makes 2 conferences with the Top 8 teams getting in. It's BS that BOS or TOR would host a playoff series if the team they're playing is 10 games better than them.


That can't happen iirc.

Yup. Home court is determined by record, not by seeding. The seedings (and thus winning the division) determine who you play, not where you play them.

GThawks
12-26-2013, 11:18 PM
Irving and Teague as well as Wall are the three best PG's in the East right now. 40 points and 9 assists for Irving and 34 points and 14 assists for Teague and the game winner tonight.

ewing
12-27-2013, 03:46 AM
if it is their's to lose they are doing a good job

blahblahyoutoo
12-27-2013, 10:29 AM
I';ve said this MANY times before: Dantoni is a good coach for getting Bad teams to be mediocre/average. he did it witht he Knicks in 2008 and 2009. That said, he's a horrible coach to get a good team to be great, a great team to be elite, or an average team to be good. Average, good, and great teams usually regress and become average to below average with him.

And please don't point out phoenix. That was long ago. That was at a time when HE was the only one using some of his coaching mechanics. Once the rest of the league noticed this new thing, they adopted teh GOOD parts of his system and implemented them even better.

So, I'm not surprised that he coached a good laker team last year to be average. I'm not surprised he's coached a bad laker team this year to be average.

so you discredit the coach when he had great accomplishments by saying it was a long time ago, but when his team does bad, he's the fall guy. that's good stuff there.

taking bad teams and making it better... hmmm, that sounds like what a good coach would do, doesn't it?
and if I recall, he was one bad ejection call from taking the Suns to the finals.

what has woodson done in his career other than iso joe/melo and first round exits?
oh yeah, that's right. he's taking a talented knicks squad to the bottom of the eastern conference.

I think I get it.. they're tanking for wiggins for denver right?

so to summarize...
you don't want to talk about the past, so lets talk about this season. a coach overachieving with a low talent squad vs one that's underachieving with a talented squad. and dantoni is the suckier coach... did I get that right?

jimm120
12-29-2013, 06:34 PM
I said it. Dantoni is. Good coach for a bad team.

He is a horrible coach for good or great teams.

He was good I phoenix since he brought something new. Since that time, other teams/coaches have adapted to his tactics and have made them even better.

2008, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 2014 show what Dantoni is. His Phoenix days are the only ones that go contrary to that, but as mentioned, It's cause it was an optimal roster AND he brought something that no one had used here.

John Walls Era
12-29-2013, 06:51 PM
Irving and Teague as well as Wall are the three best PG's in the East right now. 40 points and 9 assists for Irving and 34 points and 14 assists for Teague and the game winner tonight.

Irving is the worst defensive pg thats starting.

Guppyfighter
12-29-2013, 07:25 PM
I said it. Dantoni is. Good coach for a bad team.

He is a horrible coach for good or great teams.

He was good I phoenix since he brought something new. Since that time, other teams/coaches have adapted to his tactics and have made them even better.

2008, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 2014 show what Dantoni is. His Phoenix days are the only ones that go contrary to that, but as mentioned, It's cause it was an optimal roster AND he brought something that no one had used here.

The only thing contrary to what you are saying is most of his career then?

blahblahyoutoo
12-29-2013, 09:04 PM
I said it. Dantoni is. Good coach for a bad team.

He is a horrible coach for good or great teams.

He was good I phoenix since he brought something new. Since that time, other teams/coaches have adapted to his tactics and have made them even better.

2008, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 2014 show what Dantoni is. His Phoenix days are the only ones that go contrary to that, but as mentioned, It's cause it was an optimal roster AND he brought something that no one had used here.

you still haven't addressed my main point.
2013-14 dantoni being more successful with a bad team in a harder conference doing better than woodson with more talent in a crap division. and dantoni is somehow rated worse than woodson in your opinion???

blahblahyoutoo
12-29-2013, 09:05 PM
The only thing contrary to what you are saying is most of his career then?

yup, his argument is not just weak. it's non-existent.

his current laker roster is "optimal" apparently since he's overachieving with them.

TheNumber37
12-29-2013, 09:55 PM
This is why their should be seeding to the top 16 teams. Teams with the higher records would get HCA.
It would also be great to the ASG serve as tie breaker for teams who are matched up that have the same record and split their regular season meetings.

Tmath
12-29-2013, 10:17 PM
The Knicks are my favourite team this year. I love watching them suffer.