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View Full Version : What the hell happened to Ricky Rubio?



KniCks4LiFe
12-21-2013, 02:12 AM
This homie has regressed immensely. Remember the Pistol Pete comparisons pre draft? where the hell has this guy's game gone? yo on the real someone tell me.

zn23
12-21-2013, 02:17 AM
He can do one thing well and that's play defense... that's about it.

He's a complete liability offensively. He can't shoot. He's not athletic enough to blow by his opponents and create shots and he's a turnover machine as well.

force_within
12-21-2013, 02:26 AM
the kid is just 23 years old, there's still a lot of room for improvement. sure he's having difficulty in scoring, but his defense and play making ability covers up that flaw.

Iron24th
12-21-2013, 02:37 AM
He always was a poor shooter in europe, not even a starter for spanish team.

JNA17
12-21-2013, 02:38 AM
All I know is that this just puts yet another nail in the Kevin Love is so leaving coffin.

KniCks4LiFe
12-21-2013, 02:51 AM
He can do one thing well and that's play defense... that's about it.

He's a complete liability offensively. He can't shoot. He's not athletic enough to blow by his opponents and create shots and he's a turnover machine as well.

yeh, that's what I see too.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-21-2013, 02:57 AM
He's doing what he was supposed to do. He was always a limited scorer but had all the potential as a passer and he's playing well defensively. I think everyone projected him as a 9-13 PPG scorer in his prime (assuming you did your homework).

John Walls Era
12-21-2013, 03:05 AM
:yawn:

Always said he sucked. I thought I was finally wrong when I said Jennings was better when they were both in Europe, but Jennings is playing a bit better this year than the Stinky Fly.

TheNumber37
12-21-2013, 03:10 AM
Pistol Pete as a creative Passer.. THAT's it.

The more accurate comparison is Kidd... Can run PG, can defend, can rebound and has a high Q. Sure, he's not a 1 man fast break with the ball in his hands, but the Kings don't play that way anyhow.

In his PRIME, I saw, 13ppg 5rpg and 11apg ....

Kidd (3rd all time in 3s made) didnt' even get a jumpshot until his last 4 years in the league. Rubio is playing is ONLY full season right now.

John Walls Era
12-21-2013, 03:11 AM
Rubio plays good D, I will give him that. But so did Lindsay Hunter.

KniCks4LiFe
12-21-2013, 03:15 AM
He's doing what he was supposed to do. He was always a limited scorer but had all the potential as a passer and he's playing well defensively. I think everyone projected him as a 9-13 PPG scorer in his prime (assuming you did your homework).

I did. I'm not the one who ever said he was Pete. But the draft boards years ago was comparing his game to that. I know he isn't anywhere near that. But what happened to his game? like his first step to the rim, his play-making, etc.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-21-2013, 03:26 AM
I did. I'm not the one who ever said he was Pete. But the draft boards years ago was comparing his game to that. I know he isn't anywhere near that. But what happened to his game? like his first step to the rim, his play-making, etc.

Pistol Pete could shoot from like 50 feet away and was a complete ballhog. Whoever made that comparison wasn't comparing their games.

What do you mean that happened? He never had things like that first step, etc. And his playmaking is still there.

Phenomenonsense
12-21-2013, 03:31 AM
I watched him a lot pre-injury and I definitely thought I saw flashes of greatness in the kid. Sometimes injuries hinder parts of players games that aren't expected?

Sadds The Gr8
12-21-2013, 03:34 AM
Definitely not as good as the hype

PowerHouse
12-21-2013, 03:45 AM
This homie has regressed immensely. Remember the Pistol Pete comparisons pre draft? where the hell has this guy's game gone? yo on the real someone tell me.

Has he ever actually been good? Dont worry about pre-draft comparisons, they're always a joke. Pre-draft comparisons were saying Adam Morrison would be the next Bird for christ sake.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-21-2013, 03:49 AM
Has he ever actually been good? Dont worry about pre-draft comparisons, they're always a joke. Pre-draft comparisons were saying Adam Morrison would be the next Bird for christ sake.

He was good enough to play for the Olympic team as a teen.

TrueFan420
12-21-2013, 03:51 AM
He just needs to keep working on his shot and he will be fine. It's improved a lot from last year if he keeps improving that combined with good d and passing he will make an above average pg but I never saw superstar and anyone that did will be disappointed.

PowerHouse
12-21-2013, 04:10 AM
He was good enough to play for the Olympic team as a teen.

I respect your point but I was referring to his NBA career.

Chronz
12-21-2013, 04:28 AM
Pistol Pete comparisons were made by weirdos who think hair style should be a factor in anyway. Thats like comparing Iverson to Tyron Lue

Raps18-19 Champ
12-21-2013, 04:41 AM
He just needs to keep working on his shot and he will be fine. It's improved a lot from last year if he keeps improving that combined with good d and passing he will make an above average pg but I never saw superstar and anyone that did will be disappointed.

He probably won't improve his shot so much but what were people expecting from a guy who was pass-first PG who couldn't shoot coming into the draft? He's doing what should've been projected of him.

John Walls Era
12-21-2013, 04:58 AM
Hes not good. Never said he was good, never liked him.

PurpleLynch
12-21-2013, 08:19 AM
I dunno,maybe too much overhyped. But he's still very young,with much more experience he could be a good starter. I'm not certainly comparing him to Nash,but also Steve exploded after some years in the Nba. Rubio NEEDS to improve is shot anyway,he's awful at least when he shoot the ball.

GiantsSwaGG
12-21-2013, 08:39 AM
He will be the reason Kevin Love is gone

He can't score but he's a good defender

GiantsSwaGG
12-21-2013, 08:40 AM
Pistol Pete comparisons were made by weirdos who think hair style should be a factor in anyway. Thats like comparing Iverson to Tyron Lue

At least Lou and Iverson look alike

Swashcuff
12-21-2013, 09:18 AM
Is this the same player who's arguably a top 5 passer in the league with some of the best court vision in the NBA? That same Ricky Rubio? So why isn't anyone speaking of his offense?

And yeah before people get on me for saying his a top 5 passer/playmaker I'll defend my point.

According to 82games.com here are some of the best passing PGs in the game and their passing rating.


Chris Paul 19.2
John Wall 13.4
Ricky Rubio 12.5
Jrue Holiday 12.4
Ty Lawson 12.3
B Jennings 11.7
Deron Williams 11.5
R Westbrook 11.5
Tony Parker 11.4
Steph Curry 11.1
Mike Conley 10.1
Jeff Teague 9.6

Its very early going and those numbers are subject to change especially once Rondo returns, I mean just a couple weeks ago Rubio's rating was over 14 and we can more or less expect it about 13 for the entirety of the season.

He is extremely valuable to Minny's offense (Minny are 13.7 points better per 100 possesions with him on the floor than they are with him off, only the Warriors Steph Curry has a great on/off offensive differential) and D. He is what he is a poor shooter with solid handles, GREAT vision and elite passing ability. I expected 11 and 9 from him at this point in his career with sub par efficiency. He's been rather unimpressive in that regard but let's not act as if Rubio is some scrub, he does what was expected of him. No one expected anything like Pete (who is hella overrated by many) in today's NBA.

In short Ricky isn't as good right now as many thought he'd be but he surely isn't as bad as some in this thread are making him out to be.

waveycrockett
12-21-2013, 10:45 AM
He is a great defender and a great passer. Alot of PG's in the NBA wish they could say that. As long as he avoids another major injury I think his down side is Rajon Rondo-lite. His shot will come and 35% from 3P is not shabby at all. He is only 23 years old coming back from major surgery and can add at least 15 pounds more of muscle to his skinny frame. This time last year people were already calling John Wall a bust too because he couldn't shoot or stay healthy at all. Rubio will find his shot and will put on size

nycericanguy
12-21-2013, 11:13 AM
Is this the same player who's arguably a top 5 passer in the league with some of the best court vision in the NBA? That same Ricky Rubio? So why isn't anyone speaking of his offense?

And yeah before people get on me for saying his a top 5 passer/playmaker I'll defend my point.

According to 82games.com here are some of the best passing PGs in the game and their passing rating.


Chris Paul 19.2
John Wall 13.4
Ricky Rubio 12.5
Jrue Holiday 12.4
Ty Lawson 12.3
B Jennings 11.7
Deron Williams 11.5
R Westbrook 11.5
Tony Parker 11.4
Steph Curry 11.1
Mike Conley 10.1
Jeff Teague 9.6

Its very early going and those numbers are subject to change especially once Rondo returns, I mean just a couple weeks ago Rubio's rating was over 14 and we can more or less expect it about 13 for the entirety of the season.

He is extremely valuable to Minny's offense (Minny are 13.7 points better per 100 possesions with him on the floor than they are with him off, only the Warriors Steph Curry has a great on/off offensive differential) and D. He is what he is a poor shooter with solid handles, GREAT vision and elite passing ability. I expected 11 and 9 from him at this point in his career with sub par efficiency. He's been rather unimpressive in that regard but let's not act as if Rubio is some scrub, he does what was expected of him. No one expected anything like Pete (who is hella overrated by many) in today's NBA.

In short Ricky isn't as good right now as many thought he'd be but he surely isn't as bad as some in this thread are making him out to be.

is that the same as ORTG vs DRTG? Because his oRtg/drtg is 99/100

Does'nt that mean MIN is scoring less and giving up more with him on the court per 100?

Rain City
12-21-2013, 12:11 PM
more style than substance. he is a big reason why minny are still not ready to be taken seriously. he is dreadful late in games when it turns into half court execution because there is little scoring ability that you respect. defensively he is instinctive, but the top guards have no problem going at him one on one. i think whatever team has him is cursed because he is not a energy spark plug that excels coming off the bench, and as a starter he is a liability.

mngopher35
12-21-2013, 12:57 PM
he is still a solid player with potential, but he needs to learn to score if he wants to be a really good player. He doesn't have much of a jumper (although his 3% is ok), isn't getting to the line, and he's bad around the rim. Not a great recipe for success.

NYKnickFanatic
12-21-2013, 01:59 PM
Rubio plays good D, I will give him that. But so did Lindsay Hunter.

Lol

Kashmir13579
12-21-2013, 02:06 PM
I'll say what i said years ago, i'll take Jeremy Lin over Ricky any day of the week.

AddiX
12-21-2013, 03:07 PM
His hype was always way overrated and his ceiling was never anywhere near what people thought it was.

IMO he was exposed when he stayed overseas for that past season and showed 0 improvement. That's when I know 100% the Rubio hype train was bs. This is not a player you build around.

amak316
12-21-2013, 03:20 PM
Would have been so fun to watch Curry and Love raining 3s from everywhere on the court. Sometimes Kahn happens.

He drafted 3 pgs early in the 2009 draft (2 before Steph) and the only one that he drafted that was any good he instantly traded (Ty Lawson)

Red_Pill
12-21-2013, 03:30 PM
All I know is that this just puts yet another nail in the Kevin Love is so leaving coffin.

Depends. I believe the Wolves can still offer him $30 million more than anyone else. So, it really depends what he cares about more. Money or winning.

If Rubio had not regressed and our bench was average, we'd be in a better position to win. But we really need another major piece. Someone to come off the bench and score.

EAGLES3658
12-21-2013, 03:39 PM
I watched him a lot pre-injury and I definitely thought I saw flashes of greatness in the kid. Sometimes injuries hinder parts of players games that aren't expected?

This. I never thought he would score much but I thought he would put up crazy assist numbers.

amak316
12-21-2013, 03:43 PM
Depends. I believe the Wolves can still offer him $30 million more than anyone else. So, it really depends what he cares about more. Money or winning.

If Rubio had not regressed and our bench was average, we'd be in a better position to win. But we really need another major piece.

I think the wolves need a guy that can score and distribute to take pressure off of K Love. I'm so sick of people saying Love is not a superstar and that he just is a stat padder. He is without a doubt to me a top 5 player with all his versatility, but a big man can't have a super high usage.

Rubio is a good player but He isn't right for a team without a great offensive 2 or 3. I think a Corey Brewer + Ricky Rubio for Jeremy Lin + a 1st makes a lot of sense for both teams. Would give the wolves a great chance at retaining Love and avoiding a rebuild.

TrueFan420
12-21-2013, 04:13 PM
He probably won't improve his shot so much but what were people expecting from a guy who was pass-first PG who couldn't shoot coming into the draft? He's doing what should've been projected of him.

It won't be elite but if Kidd could learn to knock down a 3 Rubio should be able to as well. If he can hit it at a respectable 38-40% then he will be an above average pg in the nba.

John Walls Era
12-21-2013, 05:30 PM
Is this the same player who's arguably a top 5 passer in the league with some of the best court vision in the NBA? That same Ricky Rubio? So why isn't anyone speaking of his offense?

And yeah before people get on me for saying his a top 5 passer/playmaker I'll defend my point.

According to 82games.com here are some of the best passing PGs in the game and their passing rating.


Chris Paul 19.2
John Wall 13.4
Ricky Rubio 12.5
Jrue Holiday 12.4
Ty Lawson 12.3
B Jennings 11.7
Deron Williams 11.5
R Westbrook 11.5
Tony Parker 11.4
Steph Curry 11.1
Mike Conley 10.1
Jeff Teague 9.6

Its very early going and those numbers are subject to change especially once Rondo returns, I mean just a couple weeks ago Rubio's rating was over 14 and we can more or less expect it about 13 for the entirety of the season.

He is extremely valuable to Minny's offense (Minny are 13.7 points better per 100 possesions with him on the floor than they are with him off, only the Warriors Steph Curry has a great on/off offensive differential) and D. He is what he is a poor shooter with solid handles, GREAT vision and elite passing ability. I expected 11 and 9 from him at this point in his career with sub par efficiency. He's been rather unimpressive in that regard but let's not act as if Rubio is some scrub, he does what was expected of him. No one expected anything like Pete (who is hella overrated by many) in today's NBA.

In short Ricky isn't as good right now as many thought he'd be but he surely isn't as bad as some in this thread are making him out to be.

So Wall is better at the best thing RUbio can do????

I feel ashamed for giving Rubio THAT much credit.

AddiX
12-21-2013, 05:48 PM
So Wall is better at the best thing RUbio can do????

I feel ashamed for giving Rubio THAT much credit.

Wall is playing his best ball by far since entering the NBA, so its not really to bad of a look for Rubio to be a bit behind him in that stat. We always knew wall was a million times better and more talented than Rubio anyway.

The biggest problem for Rubio is 0 improvement in his game since entering the NBA. To me, that's a lost cause of a player. People talking about him hitting 40% from 3 as time goes on, and improving his like Kidd.

Rubio ain't no god damn Jason Kidd, I don't even know what people are trying that comparison.

SugeKnight
12-21-2013, 07:47 PM
Rubio
Flynn
Curry

SPURSFAN1
12-21-2013, 07:49 PM
Rubio is a scrub.

Swashcuff
12-22-2013, 01:42 PM
So Wall is better at the best thing RUbio can do????

I feel ashamed for giving Rubio THAT much credit.

I'm a more rational John Wall defender than most but thus far in the NBA the best part of Wall's game has been his play making. Its probably the best thing Wall can do as well.

Swashcuff
12-22-2013, 01:46 PM
is that the same as ORTG vs DRTG? Because his oRtg/drtg is 99/100

Does'nt that mean MIN is scoring less and giving up more with him on the court per 100?

http://www.82games.com/1314/13MIN2.HTM#onoff

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 03:40 PM
he has regressed big time. The last 35 games of last year, he was at least attacking and getting to the line a lot, so he was giving us 12-15 a night, and his efficiency wasn't horrid. He is so ****ing passive, and basically refuses to shoot out of fear. He can't finish at all, and even his defense has regressed. Quick PG's kill him, and with our bigs not being shot blockers, it is killing us.

I am not happy with his play at all. If he doesn't improve quite a bit by the time his rookie deal is up, if he commands anything remotely close to a good starting caliber PG, let him walk.

Another part of him that pisses me off, is he was supposed to be our 2nd best player. Pek is easily our 2nd best player, Martin our 3rd. The clock is ticking with Love and his deal. If Rubio doesn't improve (he is the only starter we have with massive room to grow), Love is gone. Fair or not, that will create resentment towards Rubio from some Wolves fans, me included.

Bruno
12-22-2013, 03:47 PM
he has regressed big time. The last 35 games of last year, he was at least attacking and getting to the line a lot, so he was giving us 12-15 a night, and his efficiency wasn't horrid. He is so ****ing passive, and basically refuses to shoot out of fear. He can't finish at all, and even his defense has regressed. Quick PG's kill him, and with our bigs not being shot blockers, it is killing us.

I am not happy with his play at all. If he doesn't improve quite a bit by the time his rookie deal is up, if he commands anything remotely close to a good starting caliber PG, let him walk.

Another part of him that pisses me off, is he was supposed to be our 2nd best player. Pek is easily our 2nd best player, Martin our 3rd. The clock is ticking with Love and his deal. If Rubio doesn't improve (he is the only starter we have with massive room to grow), Love is gone. Fair or not, that will create resentment towards Rubio from some Wolves fans, me included.

first part of your description almost sounds like Pau.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 03:47 PM
Is this the same player who's arguably a top 5 passer in the league with some of the best court vision in the NBA? That same Ricky Rubio? So why isn't anyone speaking of his offense?

And yeah before people get on me for saying his a top 5 passer/playmaker I'll defend my point.

According to 82games.com here are some of the best passing PGs in the game and their passing rating.


Chris Paul 19.2
John Wall 13.4
Ricky Rubio 12.5
Jrue Holiday 12.4
Ty Lawson 12.3
B Jennings 11.7
Deron Williams 11.5
R Westbrook 11.5
Tony Parker 11.4
Steph Curry 11.1
Mike Conley 10.1
Jeff Teague 9.6

Its very early going and those numbers are subject to change especially once Rondo returns, I mean just a couple weeks ago Rubio's rating was over 14 and we can more or less expect it about 13 for the entirety of the season.

He is extremely valuable to Minny's offense (Minny are 13.7 points better per 100 possesions with him on the floor than they are with him off, only the Warriors Steph Curry has a great on/off offensive differential) and D. He is what he is a poor shooter with solid handles, GREAT vision and elite passing ability. I expected 11 and 9 from him at this point in his career with sub par efficiency. He's been rather unimpressive in that regard but let's not act as if Rubio is some scrub, he does what was expected of him. No one expected anything like Pete (who is hella overrated by many) in today's NBA.

In short Ricky isn't as good right now as many thought he'd be but he surely isn't as bad as some in this thread are making him out to be.

because the massive amount of his minutes come with Love, Pek, and Martin dude. He has not been good. Of course his passer rating is high, he can pass, and refuses to do anything BUT pass.

Watch him play this year. He is disappointing big time.

Bruno
12-22-2013, 03:48 PM
no reason for Rubio to not average 10 assists per game with this roster. if he sucks at getting the ball in the basket so be it, but he should be in double digit assists every game.

Red_Pill
12-22-2013, 03:49 PM
he has regressed big time. The last 35 games of last year, he was at least attacking and getting to the line a lot, so he was giving us 12-15 a night, and his efficiency wasn't horrid. He is so ****ing passive, and basically refuses to shoot out of fear. He can't finish at all, and even his defense has regressed. Quick PG's kill him, and with our bigs not being shot blockers, it is killing us.

I am not happy with his play at all. If he doesn't improve quite a bit by the time his rookie deal is up, if he commands anything remotely close to a good starting caliber PG, let him walk.

Another part of him that pisses me off, is he was supposed to be our 2nd best player. Pek is easily our 2nd best player, Martin our 3rd. The clock is ticking with Love and his deal. If Rubio doesn't improve (he is the only starter we have with massive room to grow), Love is gone. Fair or not, that will create resentment towards Rubio from some Wolves fans, me included.

Yeah, I dread when we play teams with a speedy pg. We always get killed. Whether it's Paul, Lawson, Curry etc. We get dismantled because Rubio can't keep his man in front of him and we have no shot blocking. At this point, I would be up for trading him.

However, I still think our defense and lack of a solid bench are our biggest weakness. But seriously, I wish Flip would hire the best shooting coach he can and force Ricky to learn how to shoot on his off days, so that he can help the team.

I mean, seriously, he has the FLATTEST shot I've ever seen. Get some arc!

Red_Pill
12-22-2013, 03:51 PM
no reason for Rubio to not average 10 assists per game with this roster. if he sucks at getting the ball in the basket so be it, but he should be in double digit assists every game.

He gets guys looks. A lot of them just aren't converting. We miss so many shots inside the paint, it's ridiculous. Not to mention all the wide-open threes we miss.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 03:52 PM
Yeah, I dread when we play teams with a speedy pg. We always get killed. Whether it's Paul, Lawson, Curry etc. We get dismantled because Rubio can't keep his man in front of him and we have no shot blocking. At this point, I would be up for trading him.

However, I still think our defense and lack of a solid bench are our biggest weakness. But seriously, I wish Flip would hire the best shooting coach he can and force Ricky to learn how to shoot on his off days, so that he can help the team.

I am not pinning our record on Ricky per say, just frustrated that the assumed 2nd star of our rebuilding roster is anything but. Pair that with Kahn saying "eff you" to our best player over his deal because he wanted to save the 5 year deal for his pet project in Rubio, and I am getting pretty fed up with the regression of Rubio.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 03:52 PM
He gets guys looks. A lot of them just aren't converting. We miss so many shots inside the paint, it's ridiculous. Not to mention all the wide-open threes we miss.

well, Flip decided to get him Corey Brewer to shoot corner 3's....

isn't it funny that Brewer is always the one teams leave open?

Red_Pill
12-22-2013, 03:54 PM
I am not pinning our record on Ricky per say, just frustrated that the assumed 2nd star of our rebuilding roster is anything but.

I don't get what happened. He looked good at the end of last year. And I still don't get how he misses as many layups as he does. If he made more of them, he'd easily average 4 more points per game, which is not a lot, but it helps to keep the defense honest. And I HATE that he's been taking so many chances to get steals, which usually always leads to the opposing team getting a wide open shot.

I just don't think he wants or cares to win.

Red_Pill
12-22-2013, 03:56 PM
well, Flip decided to get him Corey Brewer to shoot corner 3's....

isn't it funny that Brewer is always the one teams leave open?

However, replace Budinger in that spot and we may start hitting those. Plus, Brewer would be the spark we need off the bench to give the bench guys some energy and confidence.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 04:00 PM
However, replace Budinger in that spot and we may start hitting those. Plus, Brewer would be the spark we need off the bench to give the bench guys some energy and confidence.

Budinger hasn't played a healthy game in over a year, with 2 knee surgeries. Don't expect much out of him until a couple months from now.

Red_Pill
12-22-2013, 04:02 PM
Budinger hasn't played a healthy game in over a year, with 2 knee surgeries. Don't expect much out of him until a couple months from now.

All I ask, is that he stand in a corner and hit an open 3 :p

PurpleJesus
12-22-2013, 04:10 PM
He hasnt really regressed...He has just shown no progression, and now naturally, some of the flair and hype has gone away since his rookie year.

KingPosey
12-22-2013, 04:11 PM
Nothing "happened" to Rubio. This is literally exactly who hes been.

D-Leethal
12-22-2013, 04:49 PM
Having Love and Pekovic is definitely not the best frontcourt for Rubio's game. He needs an uptempo, spacing oriented spread offense predicated around the pick and roll and he needs a big in the mold of Amare/Blake to bring the best out of his game. Love can pop but Rubio needs a roller and Pek can post and that is usually the antithesis of what a pass first PG wants and thrives next to. He needs athletic bigs that run. I bring this up all the time when it comes to DWills regression since playing with Brook. Its hard to post your bigs AND have a pick and roll PG thrive simultaneously.

D-Leethal
12-22-2013, 04:50 PM
Wolves are stacked with 50-55 win level talent but it doesn't fit - and the talent actually fitting is way more important than the talent itself.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 05:15 PM
He hasnt really regressed...He has just shown no progression, and now naturally, some of the flair and hype has gone away since his rookie year.

his regression comes from his lack of not drawing fouls, which he was doing very well to close the last 1/3 of last season, which gave me hope going into this year with his scoring. He is also having problems being our point of attack defender. He was better as a rookie on defense than he is now.

And I am sure someone can find someone else, but I have personally NEVER seen someone so bad finishing at the rim. Which may explain his foul draw rate. Other teams, through a little research, probably just say, "do NOT touch Rubio on the drive, he will brick it anyways".

Kashmir13579
12-22-2013, 06:35 PM
Rubio
Flynn
Curry

ty lawson

John Walls Era
12-22-2013, 06:46 PM
I think the wolves need a guy that can score and distribute to take pressure off of K Love. I'm so sick of people saying Love is not a superstar and that he just is a stat padder. He is without a doubt to me a top 5 player with all his versatility, but a big man can't have a super high usage.

Rubio is a good player but He isn't right for a team without a great offensive 2 or 3. I think a Corey Brewer + Ricky Rubio for Jeremy Lin + a 1st makes a lot of sense for both teams. Would give the wolves a great chance at retaining Love and avoiding a rebuild.

LOL Ricky Rubio for Lin? Keep in mind Rubio would also play next to Harden. So makes no sense. He'll be missing open shots everywhere.

John Walls Era
12-22-2013, 06:47 PM
I'm a more rational John Wall defender than most but thus far in the NBA the best part of Wall's game has been his play making. Its probably the best thing Wall can do as well.

Getting those steals! Breaking those defenders! Getting to the hole! Also the 1 man fast break!

John Walls Era
12-22-2013, 06:49 PM
Nothing "happened" to Rubio. This is literally exactly who hes been.

Definitely, Rubio was never good. People love to point out his 3 nice passes a game. Ok fine, but he can't make a shot to save his life. Which is crazy given hes paid to play bball. Hes literally missing wide open shots...

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 06:55 PM
LOL Ricky Rubio for Lin? Keep in mind Rubio would also play next to Harden. So makes no sense. He'll be missing open shots everywhere.

I would never want Lin at the money he makes, especially next year. He isn't the solution either. Rubio is better than Lin, but that isn't saying much for either player.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 06:56 PM
Definitely, Rubio was never good. People love to point out his 3 nice passes a game. Ok fine, but he can't make a shot to save his life. Which is crazy given hes paid to play bball. Hes literally missing wide open shots...

he actually showed promise his first year, and after his knee got healthy last year. But this year, he has reverted back to being passive, which is not acceptable for what the Wolves need.

BHF
12-22-2013, 07:02 PM
They took out flopping so his defense sucks now same with Pau and Mark the biggest baby in the NBA. Rudy Fernadez left the NBA right after the rule change. Batum had enough of it lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzWj6cG3xRQ

John Walls Era
12-22-2013, 07:12 PM
I would never want Lin at the money he makes, especially next year. He isn't the solution either. Rubio is better than Lin, but that isn't saying much for either player.

No hes not. Lin is a way better scoring than Rubio. Lins shot actually improved this year. Rubio only plays better D and maybe flashier passes. Lin only makes like 7 a year.

AddiX
12-22-2013, 07:25 PM
No hes not. Lin is a way better scoring than Rubio. Lins shot actually improved this year. Rubio only plays better D and maybe flashier passes. Lin only makes like 7 a year.

Lins contract goes up next year.

But I do agree, Lin > Rubio. Lin would be running that system far better than Rubio is right now, no doubt about that.

Kashmir13579
12-22-2013, 07:29 PM
I would never want Lin at the money he makes, especially next year. He isn't the solution either. Rubio is better than Lin, but that isn't saying much for either player.

Rubio is a better defender than Lin. Lin is a better all-around player, and he's only getting better. I remember having this conversation with you over a year ago. The difference now, Jeremy's numbers have caught up to what i saw with the eye test. Statistically, there is almost no comparison. Lin by a mile.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 08:44 PM
No hes not. Lin is a way better scoring than Rubio. Lins shot actually improved this year. Rubio only plays better D and maybe flashier passes. Lin only makes like 7 a year.

Lin provides what to the Wolves already bad defense? He provides what to Adelman's offense?

He makes almost $15 million next year. And he isn't as good as Rubio, who is butt reaming average as a starter.

Look, you have not liked Rubio since day 1. If it makes you feel any better, my opinion of him is in a sliding scale moving towards your opinion, but I will never think he is as worthless as you try to make him out to be.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 08:46 PM
Rubio is a better defender than Lin. Lin is a better all-around player, and he's only getting better. I remember having this conversation with you over a year ago. The difference now, Jeremy's numbers have caught up to what i saw with the eye test. Statistically, there is almost no comparison. Lin by a mile.

not really. I don't see any reason to believe the Wolves are better with Lin over Rubio. But again, we are debating now over two average starting PG's. Not really interested in getting in depth. I am not defending Rubio anymore, he hasn't played at a high enough level to be defended. But to try and cram another average PG who lost his starting role to Patrick Beverly is useless to me.

John Walls Era
12-22-2013, 08:57 PM
He didnt lose his job cuz beverley is better. Its cuz becerley is suppose to b a better fit and mcfail went full ****** since his family is dying left and right

Raps18-19 Champ
12-22-2013, 09:04 PM
He didnt lose his job cuz beverley is better. Its cuz becerley is suppose to b a better fit and mcfail went full ****** since his family is dying left and right

Lol what? Come on now.

Red_Pill
12-22-2013, 09:17 PM
his regression comes from his lack of not drawing fouls, which he was doing very well to close the last 1/3 of last season, which gave me hope going into this year with his scoring. He is also having problems being our point of attack defender. He was better as a rookie on defense than he is now.

And I am sure someone can find someone else, but I have personally NEVER seen someone so bad finishing at the rim. Which may explain his foul draw rate. Other teams, through a little research, probably just say, "do NOT touch Rubio on the drive, he will brick it anyways".

Lillard is barely better than Rubio at finishing at the rim, I believe, but he makes up for it in other ways as we saw the other night. Outside of him, I can't think of another PG who finishes so poorly.

Hawkeye15
12-22-2013, 10:07 PM
He didnt lose his job cuz beverley is better. Its cuz becerley is suppose to b a better fit and mcfail went full ****** since his family is dying left and right

you are arguing over butt reaming average PG's dude.

John Walls Era
12-23-2013, 03:03 AM
you are arguing over butt reaming average PG's dude.

average pgs win championships!

John Walls Era
12-23-2013, 03:04 AM
Lol what? Come on now.

what? truth is the truth. Its understandable since hes losing his loved ones, hes becoming unstable. Also hes getting old.

Kushed
12-23-2013, 03:07 AM
Adelman needs to start Barea and bring Rubio off the bench. I'm sick of this dude not being able to score 1 ****ing single point. Omg

NoahH
12-23-2013, 03:14 AM
Ricky Rubio may be the worst shooter who's starting for a team right now. He's horrendous. He doesnt qualify under ESPN standards for stats but the bottom qualifier is OJ Mayo at 40%, rubio is at 35%. At least Rubio knows he's a terrible shooter and he doesn't chuck.

RipCity32
12-23-2013, 03:23 AM
He didnt lose his job cuz beverley is better. Its cuz becerley is suppose to b a better fit and mcfail went full ****** since his family is dying left and right

Classy, nice way to word that.

John Walls Era
12-23-2013, 03:25 AM
Classy, You are a piece of **** man.

i think i wasn't being disrespectful. Mcfail is a terrible HC and I give him the benefit of the doubt since his family members are dying.

RipCity32
12-23-2013, 03:27 AM
i think i wasn't being disrespectful.

I tried to edit it after your last post. Looked like you just worded it a little rough, My bad

Raps18-19 Champ
12-23-2013, 07:36 AM
what? truth is the truth. Its understandable since hes losing his loved ones, hes becoming unstable. Also hes getting old.

You didn't say it in the most respectful manner is what my comment was about.

Asik's better
12-23-2013, 08:23 AM
i think i wasn't being disrespectful. Mcfail is a terrible HC and I give him the benefit of the doubt since his family members are dying.

Wow, second thread in the same day you derailed, you must have some weird hatred towards the rockets. Also the rockets are playing tomorrow so I thought I would write your post now so you don't have were to write it in the game thread:
Howard sucks, McFail's family is dead, Dallas by 60.

Kashmir13579
12-23-2013, 02:04 PM
not really. I don't see any reason to believe the Wolves are better with Lin over Rubio. But again, we are debating now over two average starting PG's. Not really interested in getting in depth. I am not defending Rubio anymore, he hasn't played at a high enough level to be defended. But to try and cram another average PG who lost his starting role to Patrick Beverly is useless to me.
If Lin is average, that means Rubio is well below average.

Kashmir13579
12-23-2013, 02:05 PM
you are arguing over butt reaming average PG's dude.

You're the one that said Rubio is better.

John Walls Era
12-23-2013, 02:08 PM
You didn't say it in the most respectful manner is what my comment was about.

so? is Mcfail on PSD? i apologize if he read my comment.

John Walls Era
12-23-2013, 02:19 PM
Wow, second thread in the same day you derailed, you must have some weird hatred towards the rockets. Also the rockets are playing tomorrow so I thought I would write your post now so you don't have were to write it in the game thread:
Howard sucks, McFail's family is dead, Dallas by 60.

I liked Tmac, Yao, Steve Francis. I had both Tmac and Francis Rockets jerseys. I actually like them a lot.
I also kind of like the Rockets team this year, players like Harden, Beverley, Parsons and Lin are fun to watch. But best C in the league needs to be judged at a higher level... if you told me Dwight was an avg player, I would comment on how hes been playing great every game, but the truth is for the BEST CENTER in the league hes been inconsistent (albiet on a small nice run recently).

Truth-telling and hating is a fine line I guess. People are scared to see the truth.

Hawkeye15
12-23-2013, 02:20 PM
average pgs win championships!

haha, true

Hawkeye15
12-23-2013, 02:20 PM
You're the one that said Rubio is better.

can your daddy beat up mine? haha

I am done defending Rubio. Dude is on my **** list anyways

Raps18-19 Champ
12-23-2013, 02:49 PM
so? is Mcfail on PSD? i apologize if he read my comment.

Is that how it is supposed to work?

Chronz
12-23-2013, 03:00 PM
Is that how it is supposed to work?
dUH.

You talk about someone behind their backs and if they find out, you apologize.

Been that way since guys and gals first started going to high school

Goose17
12-23-2013, 04:16 PM
I'm sorry but since when did Rubio suck? He's one of the best defensive point guards in the league, one of the best rebounding point guards in the league and one of the most promising distributors in the league.

He doesn't score much but who cares? He doesn't need to, there's more to being a great player than getting buckets.


He's going to be one of the greatest distributors of his generation, mark my words. Is he turning the ball over a lot right now? Sure, but he's still young, his talents will develop as time goes on, his court vision and selflessness on the court are too great for him not to be one of the best.


How about a comparison;

Rubio in his third season, aged 23, averaging 32 minutes per game; 8 assists, 3 turnovers.

Nash in his fifth season, aged 26, averaging 34 minutes per game; 7.3 assists, 2.9 turnovers.

Kidd in his fourth season, aged 24, averaging 38 minutes per game; 9.1 assists, 3.1 turnovers.

Earvin Johnson in his fourth season, aged 23, averaging 36 minutes per game; 10.5 assists, 3.8 turnovers.

Isiah Thomas in his third season, aged 22, averaging 36 minutes per game; 11.1 assists, 3.7 turnovers.




I'm not saying Rubio will be as good as those guys, I'm just saying if you had judged the passing ability of those guys as youngsters, you might have found yourself drawing similar conclusions as you have about Rubio.

Bruno
12-23-2013, 05:32 PM
i'm glad rubio is getting scorned. this needs to continue. its the only way he'll put in the work in the off-season to develop a jump shot. he should have spent three hours a day in the off-season working on his jumper, five days a week. he clearly hasn't done that. if the fans turning on him is what it takes to light a fire on his ***- so be it.

Bruno
12-23-2013, 05:36 PM
With a deadly jumper rubies entire game opens up and the wolves become a different team. he need to shoot 1,000 shots a day next off-season.

Sly Guy
12-23-2013, 07:31 PM
It's too early to say I told you so, but remember that year minny took 3 PGs in the 1st round? Yeah, it's shaping up to a total "I told you so"

Hawkeye15
12-23-2013, 07:58 PM
It's too early to say I told you so, but remember that year minny took 3 PGs in the 1st round? Yeah, it's shaping up to a total "I told you so"

remember one of them isn't even in the league? Or that the other one is better than Rubio? Or the time our new GM took Trey Burke and traded him for Shabazz "Why the **** am I not in the D-League yet" Muhammad, and Dieng, who Adelman won't even play?


yeah, we are awesome at evaluating perimeter players in Minneapolis.

WES KOAST
12-23-2013, 08:17 PM
no way if im minny I trade the dude. yeah, he's not a scorer but he does other things.

I would fix the defense first, minny dead last in opp fg%.

BHF
12-23-2013, 08:22 PM
Right now i don't see much difference between Rubio and Greivis Vasquez.

smith&wesson
12-23-2013, 08:30 PM
rubio is def better than lin, I dont even think its all that close.

rubio has never had an incredible shot, but he does other things really well, like distributing or D... sorta like rondo. but lin ? i dont really know if he doesnt anything all that well.

smith&wesson
12-23-2013, 08:32 PM
Right now i don't see much difference between Rubio and Greivis Vasquez.

rubio is way faster for one thing, better distributer, probably a better defender.

vasquez has a better shot, but is also slow as ****.

Sly Guy
12-23-2013, 08:35 PM
remember one of them isn't even in the league? Or that the other one is better than Rubio? Or the time our new GM took Trey Burke and traded him for Shabazz "Why the **** am I not in the D-League yet" Muhammad, and Dieng, who Adelman won't even play?


yeah, we are awesome at evaluating perimeter players in Minneapolis.

I tyotally don't mean to rub it in, I really don't....but man, that year's draft I remember watching and saying to myself WTF are they thinking?

Guppyfighter
12-23-2013, 08:36 PM
Until Rubio can be more efficient with putting the ball in the hoop and turning it over less he will remain a lower echelon PG with good upside.

AddiX
12-23-2013, 09:08 PM
I really wonder if the people who say without a doubt Rubio is better than Lin actually watch Rubio play, or just believe in his hype from years ago.

Seriously, have you guys watched Rubio or Lin this year? Lin is hands down the better player. I don't even know how it's debatable to anyone who has watched them both.

John Walls Era
12-23-2013, 09:30 PM
Rubio could learn from Jose Calderon. Who is still a better player. Unfortunately they both have the other's weakness.

John Walls Era
12-23-2013, 09:31 PM
remember one of them isn't even in the league? Or that the other one is better than Rubio? Or the time our new GM took Trey Burke and traded him for Shabazz "Why the **** am I not in the D-League yet" Muhammad, and Dieng, who Adelman won't even play?


yeah, we are awesome at evaluating perimeter players in Minneapolis.

Shabazz was suppose to be good... he was projected top 5 pick.

Hawkeye15
12-23-2013, 09:35 PM
I tyotally don't mean to rub it in, I really don't....but man, that year's draft I remember watching and saying to myself WTF are they thinking?

not rubbing it in for me. I was furious on draft night when we landed Burke, then traded him. The first draft, Kahn was new. No bad history. Acceptable. But this last draft? Unacceptable.

Hawkeye15
12-23-2013, 09:36 PM
Shabazz was suppose to be good... he was projected top 5 pick.

that was before he played a college game. Scouts then saw he isnt athletic, has no right hand, doesn't defend, and is inefficient. Most pegged him as meh coming out of UCLA.

Chrisclover
12-23-2013, 11:07 PM
He has a complete liability offensively. Maybe he is just a little bit better than his Celtic s counterpart, Rondo. I could not figure out why he shoots this badly.
When he was hurt and couldn't play basketball, fans always longed for his return but when he did return, he failed to help the team out. Over the past few years, he hasn't improved to the satisfying level which we expected him to reach, which in turn leads to the smoldering anger of fans .Come on, please do more shooting practice !

Chrisclover
12-23-2013, 11:13 PM
Guess the scouts were drunk back then ?Larry Bird, an all time legend, is not likely to be compared this easily, right ?

This homie has regressed immensely. Remember the Pistol Pete comparisons pre draft? where the hell has this guy's game gone? yo on the real someone tell me.

Has he ever actually been good? Dont worry about pre-draft comparisons, they're always a joke. Pre-draft comparisons were saying Adam Morrison would be the next Bird for christ sake.

Chrisclover
12-23-2013, 11:25 PM
Like some dudes said, was he once good ?I remember he had some stellar moments when he put up double -doubles and led the wolves to victories but they seemed like ages ago. ...so if you believe that he has regressed, you consider those performances as his regular performance. But was he consistent back then ?he was a consistent turnover machine and a brittle guy who always got injuries and was put in to day -to day. At least he was consistent in these ways BTW, he consistently upset Love who maybe considering leaving now :rolleyes:.

WES KOAST
12-23-2013, 11:29 PM
guys forget kidd wasn't a good shooter early in his career.

Rubio got some handles, he just need to work on his shot but he's still a good pg

RollingWave
12-24-2013, 02:44 AM
nothing happened to him, this is the player he is, a good defender and passer, but a major negative shooting wise.

generally he's been a positive on the court though, looking at adjusted +/- numbers they usually like him a lot.

Chronz
12-24-2013, 04:39 AM
rubio is def better than lin, I dont even think its all that close.

rubio has never had an incredible shot, but he does other things really well, like distributing or D... sorta like rondo. but lin ? i dont really know if he doesnt anything all that well.

Lin is one of the best attacking guards in the league, hes a great finisher and a MUCH improved shooter. Watch him or look up the stats.

SouthSideRookie
12-24-2013, 05:29 AM
rubio is def better than lin, I dont even think its all that close.

rubio has never had an incredible shot, but he does other things really well, like distributing or D... sorta like rondo. but lin ? i dont really know if he doesnt anything all that well.

:laugh2:

Chrisclover
12-24-2013, 08:48 AM
I finally read through all the posts. The main clashes are whether he harbors stunning potential or not and whether he can exploit it. Well, like some posters said, maybe it is still too early to judge him, after all he is just 23.For a guy who has been hyped for such a long time, I honesty regard him as a rising star if injuries dont bother him as frequently as last year in the future.Cite Kidd and Carter as examples,they were not good shooters, either, in their early career, but after hard work of years and the changes of game style, their shooting ability massively improved

Kashmir13579
12-24-2013, 11:24 AM
You're the one that said Rubio is better.

can your daddy beat up mine? haha

I am done defending Rubio. Dude is on my **** list anyways You said Rubio is better and now won't defend your stance. I think Kahn got the boot shortly after you were "done defending" him. That doesn't bode well for young Ricky.

Kashmir13579
12-24-2013, 11:26 AM
rubio is def better than lin, I dont even think its all that close.

rubio has never had an incredible shot, but he does other things really well, like distributing or D... sorta like rondo. but lin ? i dont really know if he doesnt anything all that well.

Lin is one of the best attacking guards in the league, hes a great finisher and a MUCH improved shooter. Watch him or look up the stats. Yes! He has shown major improvements. I'm excited to further watch his growth as a player.

b@llhog24
12-24-2013, 11:36 AM
Until Rubio can be more efficient with putting the ball in the hoop and turning it over less he will remain a lower echelon PG with good upside.

Pretty much.

SluggeR
12-24-2013, 02:22 PM
Unfortunately the kid has not lived up to the hype and to be honest I don't think he could have. I remember the wolves forum before he came over and how they were hyping the kid. It use to be ridiculous how folks would post who they wouldn't trade Rubio for and how they thought he was going to impact that franchise. People really need to stop comparing this kid to Kidd and using Kidd's scoring numbers to justify Rubio's scoring incompetence. I watched Kidd from his days at California and throughout his pro career. I still have not seen a player impact the game by passing+his other nonshooting skills like Kidd did. Kidd was special and Rubio has a looooooong way to go before his name is synonymous with the word special.

Hawkeye15
12-24-2013, 03:42 PM
Unfortunately the kid has not lived up to the hype and to be honest I don't think he could have. I remember the wolves forum before he came over and how they were hyping the kid. It use to be ridiculous how folks would post who they wouldn't trade Rubio for and how they thought he was going to impact that franchise. People really need to stop comparing this kid to Kidd and using Kidd's scoring numbers to justify Rubio's scoring incompetence. I watched Kidd from his days at California and throughout his pro career. I still have not seen a player impact the game by passing+his other nonshooting skills like Kidd did. Kidd was special and Rubio has a looooooong way to go before his name is synonymous with the word special.

Rubio's game did compare to Kidd's. Tall PG who could defend, pass anywhere, and had trouble scoring. But Kidd was a much better athlete, and he didn't lose confidence in season 3. He also didn't tear his ACL his rookie year and have to deal with that.

I wouldn't have traded Rubio his rookie year, or even late last year. He was getting to the line, playing confident, and giving us 13.5-9-3 to close out the final trimester of the year. There was reason to be excited about this year. But he has regressed big time. Maybe opponents watched video and told their players, "do not foul him on the drive, he will miss anyways". Maybe his confidence is just gone. Maybe he just relies too much on Love/Pek/Martin to do the scoring, not understanding he needs to keep the defense honest. I don't know what it is. And speedy PG's are tearing him up. He needs to understand you don't need to pressure Ty Lawson 29 feet from the rim, because you will get toasted if you do that.

I don't know what it is. It's like he got stuck in quicksand. But its costing us some games, and the clock is ticking on that stupid deal Kahn gave Love.

WES KOAST
12-24-2013, 04:34 PM
Rubio's game did compare to Kidd's. Tall PG who could defend, pass anywhere, and had trouble scoring. But Kidd was a much better athlete, and he didn't lose confidence in season 3. He also didn't tear his ACL his rookie year and have to deal with that.

I wouldn't have traded Rubio his rookie year, or even late last year. He was getting to the line, playing confident, and giving us 13.5-9-3 to close out the final trimester of the year. There was reason to be excited about this year. But he has regressed big time. Maybe opponents watched video and told their players, "do not foul him on the drive, he will miss anyways". Maybe his confidence is just gone. Maybe he just relies too much on Love/Pek/Martin to do the scoring, not understanding he needs to keep the defense honest. I don't know what it is. And speedy PG's are tearing him up. He needs to understand you don't need to pressure Ty Lawson 29 feet from the rim, because you will get toasted if you do that.

I don't know what it is. It's like he got stuck in quicksand. But its costing us some games, and the clock is ticking on that stupid deal Kahn gave Love.

selecting shabazz was more stupid.

i'll take love and his max deal anyday

John Walls Era
12-24-2013, 04:42 PM
rubio is def better than lin, I dont even think its all that close.

rubio has never had an incredible shot, but he does other things really well, like distributing or D... sorta like rondo. but lin ? i dont really know if he doesnt anything all that well.

LOLOLOLOL

Rubio isnt even better than me on offense.

AddiX
12-24-2013, 04:44 PM
Rubio just isn't good.

It was a joke to compare him to Nash, Kidd, or pete.

IMO he's a far below average player who quite frankly might be out of the NBA not to long from now. He's showing NO improvement in 4 years and you guys think he's going to develop a jumper like Kiddmand that is going to miraculously save his career, give me a break. If you think all he lacks is a jumper your missing a lot. There's no system that can save him.

Hes probably playing basketball in Spain in a few years.

John Walls Era
12-24-2013, 04:47 PM
I was going to post some of Lin's stats to compare but then Rubios stats are just sooo bad that I don't want to make the Wolves fans feel any worse.

Hawkeye15
12-24-2013, 04:47 PM
selecting shabazz was more stupid.

i'll take love and his max deal anyday

that is my point. Kahn had a man crush on Rubio, because he couldn't stand the thought that his two best players were McHale holdovers. Kahn wanted to save the 5 year max for Rubio, his pet project, so he offered Love 4 years, which Love accepted on the condition he could opt out after 3. WTF are you thinking Kahn?

And the Shabazz pick was horrible. Worse, we drafted Trey Burke at 9, which made me SO happy, and then traded him away. So, in the Kahn/Saunders era so far, we have drafted the following PG's:

Rubio
Flynn
Lawson (trade to Denver)
Burke

Lawson is the best right now, pretty easily. And Burke is showing major promise. He will most likely end up better than Rubio. So we have that going for us too...

Hawkeye15
12-24-2013, 04:48 PM
I was going to post some of Lin's stats to compare but then Rubios stats are just sooo bad that I don't want to make the Wolves fans feel any worse.

I know his stats. They are awful. How does a starting PG play 39 minutes and score 0 points in a game? Not the first time either.

Hawkeye15
12-24-2013, 04:49 PM
Rubio just isn't good.

It was a joke to compare him to Nash, Kidd, or pete.

IMO he's a far below average player who quite frankly might be out of the NBA not to long from now. He's showing NO improvement in 4 years and you guys think he's going to develop a jumper like Kiddmand that is going to miraculously save his career, give me a break. If you think all he lacks is a jumper your missing a lot. There's no system that can save him.

Hes probably playing basketball in Spain in a few years.

he lacks scoring ability, period. I can live with a stupid turnover now and then if he is replacing them with steals and getting 8-9 assists. But the other team literally just lets him drive into the paint and never leaves their man, and goes under every pick, going as deep as necessary for their big to recover. He is just a complete liability on that end. It is killing us.

I thought Rondo killed the C's offense, but at least he makes his layups, so you have to account for that when he drives, caving in the paint. The opponent would rather let Rubio get to the rim and brick it then give Love a contested 25 footer. Sad.

KingPosey
12-24-2013, 04:50 PM
his regression comes from his lack of not drawing fouls, which he was doing very well to close the last 1/3 of last season, which gave me hope going into this year with his scoring. He is also having problems being our point of attack defender. He was better as a rookie on defense than he is now.

And I am sure someone can find someone else, but I have personally NEVER seen someone so bad finishing at the rim. Which may explain his foul draw rate. Other teams, through a little research, probably just say, "do NOT touch Rubio on the drive, he will brick it anyways".
It's funny you say that about him finishing at the rim because I've noticed it and it reminds me so much of Jason Williams. Flashy, gets to the rim In amazing fashion and he just couldn't ever finish.

Hawkeye15
12-24-2013, 04:53 PM
It's funny you say that about him finishing at the rim because I've noticed it and it reminds me so much of Jason Williams. Flashy, gets to the rim In amazing fashion and he just couldn't ever finish.

he was a career 56% finisher. Rubio, last I checked, was around 47%. And its worse this year, haven't even looked and I can guarantee you he is below 45%. I would love it if he could get in the Jason Williams area. Pathetic

Hawkeye15
12-24-2013, 04:54 PM
how the **** do you shoot 47% at the RIM? Its a layup, and its not like you are 5'9" Barea, you are 6'4" with a 6'7" wingspan.

ugh

AddiX
12-24-2013, 05:01 PM
he lacks scoring ability, period. I can live with a stupid turnover now and then if he is replacing them with steals and getting 8-9 assists. But the other team literally just lets him drive into the paint and never leaves their man, and goes under every pick, going as deep as necessary for their big to recover. He is just a complete liability on that end. It is killing us.

I thought Rondo killed the C's offense, but at least he makes his layups, so you have to account for that when he drives, caving in the paint. The opponent would rather let Rubio get to the rim and brick it then give Love a contested 25 footer. Sad.

Comparing Rubio to rondo because neither have good jumpers is disrespectful to everything else rondo does on the court. Rondo is relentless as they come, and I've seen him completely and utterly toy with defenses at will, rebound like a toward, and play as good d as any pg besides maybe Westbrook.

IMO without the hype, Rubio legitimately could Be out of the NBA in a few years. His name might keep him around, but by that time he may choose to go back to Spain anyway.

One thing that drives me nuts about Rubio is his layup technique. He will get near the rim, and than in this slow motion move, where he scoops the ball from all the way by his knees, he slowly brings the ball around away frommhis body like a damn windmill, And just as he realizes he's near the rim, and actually playing a real game, he than throws his head up last second to look where he's aiming. It's pathetic...

I've never seen anything like it in the NBA. And it's exactly the same every time, at least when he's driving to the left side it is. To me, that's just not a NBA player.

Hawkeye15
12-24-2013, 05:10 PM
Comparing Rubio to rondo because neither have good jumpers is disrespectful to everything else rondo does on the court. Rondo is relentless as they come, and I've seen him completely and utterly toy with defenses at will, rebound like a toward, and play as good d as any pg besides maybe Westbrook.

IMO without the hype, Rubio legitimately could Be out of the NBA in a few years. His name might keep him around, but by that time he may choose to go back to Spain anyway.

One thing that drives me nuts about Rubio is his layup technique. He will get near the rim, and than in this slow motion move, where he scoops the ball from all the way by his knees, he slowly brings the ball around away frommhis body like a damn windmill, And just as he realizes he's near the rim, and actually playing a real game, he than throws his head up last second to look where he's aiming. It's pathetic...

I've never seen anything like it in the NBA. And it's exactly the same every time, at least when he's driving to the left side it is. To me, that's just not a NBA player.

Rondo is the most overrated PG in the league dude. But that is a different conversation. Before this year, no way I would have traded Rubio for Rondo. At this point, I am willing to give Rubio the season, but he has not been good, and defenses know his weaknesses, and he hasn't adjusted at all. I get he had a torn ACL, but its been 20 months since it happened. That excuse is gone, he had a full offseason (where he wasted another summer playing for Spain), and didn't work on his scoring. Unacceptable.

AddiX
12-24-2013, 05:23 PM
Pretty ironic to call rondo tHe most overrated pg in the league, in a Rubio thread.

Without rondo, pierce and Garnett looked like exactly what they've been for years, old men. Rondo does everything GREAT, but score. I'd tale him over most starting pgs easily.

But back to Rubio, sorry, 0 improvement in 4 years, no excuses for that.

Guppyfighter
12-24-2013, 06:00 PM
Pretty ironic to call rondo tHe most overrated pg in the league, in a Rubio thread.

Without rondo, pierce and Garnett looked like exactly what they've been for years, old men. Rondo does everything GREAT, but score. I'd tale him over most starting pgs easily.

But back to Rubio, sorry, 0 improvement in 4 years, no excuses for that.

Uh, Pierce and Garnett looked better in the second half of last season without Rondo. Just because father time wins doesn't mean Rondo made them better.

smith&wesson
12-24-2013, 06:50 PM
LOLOLOLOL

Rubio isnt even better than me on offense.

yeah but youre wall, no ones saying rubio is as good as you = P

b@llhog24
12-24-2013, 09:36 PM
I wonder where that MTL guy is who was calling Rubio the Wolves true franchise player.

RollingWave
12-24-2013, 09:57 PM
how the **** do you shoot 47% at the RIM? Its a layup, and its not like you are 5'9" Barea, you are 6'4" with a 6'7" wingspan.

ugh

Yeah, that's actually the main problem here, he can't finish around the rim, and it's not your average bad finisher, he's tittering on historically bad for a guy with that many minutes .

I don't think wingspan matter that much here though, if anything, the 2 best guards at finishing around the rim right now is actually Jeremy Lin and Isaiah Thomas, Lin has a pretty small wing span and Thomas is just small.

I do think the Jason Kidd comp wasn't crazy though, it's just that Kidd managed to get his scoring ability up to a more acceptable level where as Rubio hasn't (yet.)

Still, I should note that we need to keep some perspective here, all +/- related stats rates Rubio very well, and the Wolf's point differentially is massively better than their current record. I think his lack of scoring would hurt a lot more in a playoff series where teams actively game plan more, but in the regular season he's not nearly that bad, hell, he's pretty much the Wolf's only plus defender on the whole team.

The Wolf's real issue is that they're setup as a run and gun team but they don't have a real player to drive to the hoop , that's where it hurts, if they had say.. a Derozan instead of a Martin at the 2 it would be a lot easier to work . that and their bench is atrocious, it doesn't help that their 2 best projected bench guys are both out with lengthy injury, though this is of course, the part where you question why they drafted Shabazz and Dieng. Since anyone of Giannis (good god) / Schorder / Snell / Bullock / Plumlee would help more.

Chronz
12-25-2013, 12:31 AM
Without rondo, pierce and Garnett looked like exactly what they've been for years, old men.

Wat?

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 03:13 AM
Yeah, that's actually the main problem here, he can't finish around the rim, and it's not your average bad finisher, he's tittering on historically bad for a guy with that many minutes .

I don't think wingspan matter that much here though, if anything, the 2 best guards at finishing around the rim right now is actually Jeremy Lin and Isaiah Thomas, Lin has a pretty small wing span and Thomas is just small.

I do think the Jason Kidd comp wasn't crazy though, it's just that Kidd managed to get his scoring ability up to a more acceptable level where as Rubio hasn't (yet.)

Still, I should note that we need to keep some perspective here, all +/- related stats rates Rubio very well, and the Wolf's point differentially is massively better than their current record. I think his lack of scoring would hurt a lot more in a playoff series where teams actively game plan more, but in the regular season he's not nearly that bad, hell, he's pretty much the Wolf's only plus defender on the whole team.

The Wolf's real issue is that they're setup as a run and gun team but they don't have a real player to drive to the hoop , that's where it hurts, if they had say.. a Derozan instead of a Martin at the 2 it would be a lot easier to work . that and their bench is atrocious, it doesn't help that their 2 best projected bench guys are both out with lengthy injury, though this is of course, the part where you question why they drafted Shabazz and Dieng. Since anyone of Giannis (good god) / Schorder / Snell / Bullock / Plumlee would help more.

besides the DeRozan over Martin sentence, I have literally posted your post a million times in the Wolves and NBA forum. And Love isn't nearly as bad defensively as many think, Pek is a good PnR defender. Brewer is totally hit or miss. Agree 90%.

RollingWave
12-25-2013, 04:34 AM
Yeah, Love isn't a bad defender by any means now, he's just not the kind of defender you ideally like to have as your big. same for Pek. they both be great if they have good partners upfront, but since it's the 2 of them together it gets a bit more dicey. especially with another huge negative defender in Martin out there.

The Derozan comment was mostly ignoring the contract context obviously, with the Contract factored in he's a lot more problematic, but ideally the Wolfs should get a SG that can A. drive to the hoop and finish off the dribble well B. defend better than Kevin Martin (a very low bar here.) , now ideally you want James Harden, but obviously that won't happen and a guy like that changes the dynamics of the team dramatically anyway.

Still though, scoring isn't the issue here for them, especially in the regular season, since if you look at their record only 2 games where they have been devastatingly shut down, and they were against Miami and Indiana, teams that totally should do that to most teams. Their issue now is really just defense. And depth.

Defense part I guess only Kevin Martin could potentially be changed / improved on, but that presents it's own share of problem, the depth part is perhaps the most worrisome, especially JJ Barea, with all this Rubio bashing it's being missed that JJ is having an outright atrocious season. Rubio is actually shooting at a better TS% than him!!!! (Granted, only by a little) and JJ is suppose to be the scorer(!) If you look at say.. Houston, Aaron Brooks is freaking outplaying him and it's not really that close. and he makes money closer to Jeremy Lin than Aaron Brooks.

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 05:20 AM
Yeah, Love isn't a bad defender by any means now, he's just not the kind of defender you ideally like to have as your big. same for Pek. they both be great if they have good partners upfront, but since it's the 2 of them together it gets a bit more dicey. especially with another huge negative defender in Martin out there.

The Derozan comment was mostly ignoring the contract context obviously, with the Contract factored in he's a lot more problematic, but ideally the Wolfs should get a SG that can A. drive to the hoop and finish off the dribble well B. defend better than Kevin Martin (a very low bar here.) , now ideally you want James Harden, but obviously that won't happen and a guy like that changes the dynamics of the team dramatically anyway.

Still though, scoring isn't the issue here for them, especially in the regular season, since if you look at their record only 2 games where they have been devastatingly shut down, and they were against Miami and Indiana, teams that totally should do that to most teams. Their issue now is really just defense. And depth.

Defense part I guess only Kevin Martin could potentially be changed / improved on, but that presents it's own share of problem, the depth part is perhaps the most worrisome, especially JJ Barea, with all this Rubio bashing it's being missed that JJ is having an outright atrocious season. Rubio is actually shooting at a better TS% than him!!!! (Granted, only by a little) and JJ is suppose to be the scorer(!) If you look at say.. Houston, Aaron Brooks is freaking outplaying him and it's not really that close. and he makes money closer to Jeremy Lin than Aaron Brooks.

Harden doesn't defend any better than Martin.

Look, here is the problem. Kahn wasted multiple lottery picks. He was horrible. He also gave Love the 4 year deal with a 3 year opt out, due to his man crush on Rubio.

The Wolves will start winning games. Their point differential, and eased up SOS dictates they will start winning games and get over .500. But the fact is, Rubio has been shoved down our throats from all media sites, and especially from Kahn, as being the 2nd star in our pursuit of being elite. Now, its up to the individual to buy in, and Rubio did in fact display potential his rookie year before getting hurt, and the last trimester of last season. But the fact is, he is a complete offensive liability this year. He is killing us. Yes, our bench is horrid, and needs Chase and Ronny back, which happens very soon. But Ricky needs to stop getting crushed on a nightly basis at his position.

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 05:20 AM
JJ is having a poor season because the opposing team doesn't bother to guard a single bench player outside him. He is hedged 36 feet from the rim.

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 05:22 AM
funny fact. Wolves are rated 10th in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Their expected record is 17-11.

Win some ****ing close games guys. Seriously.

John Walls Era
12-25-2013, 05:26 AM
Merry Christmas. Enjoy the holidays. Talking about Rubio actually slightly (miniscule) makes my christmas merrier, but it makes a lot of people's worst so I say just enjoy the time off!

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 05:30 AM
Merry Christmas. Enjoy the holidays. Talking about Rubio actually slightly (miniscule) makes my christmas merrier, but it makes a lot of people's worst so I say just enjoy the time off!

your Rubio hatred is weird. That being said, I am growing more resentful by the day towards him.

Merry Christmas brochacho!