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iDefend10
12-20-2013, 03:59 PM
Most people say that MJ is the GOAT of the 90s (and all time) but like how now LeBron is the clear #1 player of this generation and Durant is #2. In your guys opinion who was the number 2 player behind Jordan in the 90s? I vote Dream, but I'd love to hear your guys opinions on this subject.

Colts_4_life
12-20-2013, 04:08 PM
I vote for Shawn Bradley.

iDefend10
12-20-2013, 04:10 PM
lmfao I forgot about the unstoppable force that was Shawn Bradley.

jerellh528
12-20-2013, 04:10 PM
I like Olajuwon, Shaq, and then Barkley. I'm a big Reggie miller fan as well since he went to my high school.

DreamShaker
12-20-2013, 04:23 PM
Top ten in semi-order:

MJ
Hakeem
Karl Malone
Barkley
David Robinson
Shaq
Pippen
Ewing
Reggie
Grant Hill

Others:
Penny
Chris Mullin
Rodman
Gary Payton
Shawn Kemp
Clyde Dexler (early part)
Jason Kidd
Mutombo
Brad Daugherty
Dan Majerle
Mitch Richmond
Tim Hardaway
Mark Price
Zo
Glen Rice
Nique (first part)

There are so many.

DreamShaker
12-20-2013, 04:26 PM
lmfao I forgot about the unstoppable force that was Shawn Bradley.

His only true rival was the immortal Greg Ostertag.

AddiX
12-20-2013, 04:27 PM
Shaq is the most dominating player ever, hands down, no doubt about it IMO. He came into his prime kind of after Hakeem, and MJ, so its hard to rank him with them.

But once he hit his stride, realistically, he could of won MVP every year he played before he started declining.

DreamShaker
12-20-2013, 04:31 PM
Shaq is the most dominating player ever, hands down, no doubt about it IMO. He came into his prime kind of after Hakeem, and MJ, so its hard to rank him with them.

But once he hit his stride, realistically, he could of won MVP every year he played before he started declining.

Yeah. I think of Shaq as more of an early 2000's guy, but he is top 7 in the 90s at least.

nickdymez
12-20-2013, 04:33 PM
I like Olajuwon, Shaq, and then Barkley. I'm a big Reggie miller fan as well since he went to my high school.

You went to Poly?

OKC
12-20-2013, 04:33 PM
Hakeem sounds about right.

jerellh528
12-20-2013, 04:38 PM
You went to Poly?

Yes sir.

IKnowHoops
12-20-2013, 04:49 PM
90-1999
Mike
Shaq
Dream
Drob
Malone
Barkley

2000-2009
Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
KG
Kobe
Wade
Mcgrady
Iverson


2010-2013
Lebron
Durant
Paul
Dwight
Wade
Kobe

Present
Lebron
Durant
Paul
Love
Aldrige

nickdymez
12-20-2013, 04:57 PM
Yes sir.

Oh ok thats wassup. I used to hang out over there all the time because I was dating a chick who lived right there off Victoria. Small world.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 05:09 PM
Shaq's career spanned over 2 decades, his absolute peak came in the early 2000's, so he is just behind:

MJ
Dream
Robinson
Barkley
Malone

WadeKobe
12-20-2013, 06:39 PM
Sir Charles is a little underrated.

It's actually even a little hard to give Jordan #1 for the 90s because he missed 3 seasons, whereas the other guys played all 10. That's pretty important, especially considering. Michael's best years were 87-89, he started a peak decline in 91, missed the last two years of his peak, and then was in significant decline by the time he came back. So...

Top10

Michael/Barkley
Stockton
Dream
Robinson
Malone
Shaq
Rodman
Pippen
Mourning (homer pick)

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 07:57 PM
Sir Charles is a little underrated.

It's actually even a little hard to give Jordan #1 for the 90s because he missed 3 seasons, whereas the other guys played all 10. That's pretty important, especially considering. Michael's best years were 87-89, he started a peak decline in 91, missed the last two years of his peak, and then was in significant decline by the time he came back. So...

Top10

Michael/Barkley
Stockton
Dream
Robinson
Malone
Shaq
Rodman
Pippen
Mourning (homer pick)

I can live with your SLIGHT overranking on Barkley, but how is Stockton ahead of Dream, Robinson, Malone, or Shaq?

TheMightyHumph
12-20-2013, 08:29 PM
Was waiting for someone to put Stockton on their List

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:35 PM
Was waiting for someone to put Stockton on their List

if my list went another 2 players, he would make mine. But he wasn't a top 5 player in that decade.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:48 PM
kinda hard to answer because every generation has 'bridge' players who staple together two different generations. Shaq is that player for the 90s. He is the player who brought the 90's into the new decade for the league. Shaq didn't reach his highest level of dominance until he was under Phil, which was after all these 90s greats had fallen off. I don't know exactly where you put Shaq in "the 90s" because of that but I'd say Hakeem would have to be second. at that point you just gotta decide how you're gona rank Robinson/Barkley/Malone.

Shaq kind of gets screwed over in both the "who are the best players from the 90s" and "who are the best players from the 2000's" discussions because he accomplished a lot in both decades. …I think Shaq has an almost easy argument as being the best player from 1995-2005.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:50 PM
kinda hard to answer because every generation has 'bridge' players who staple together two different generations. Shaq is that player for the 90s. He is the player who brought the 90's into the new decade for the league. Shaq didn't reach his highest level of dominance until he was under Phil, which was after all these 90s greats had fallen off. I don't know exactly where you put Shaq in "the 90s" because of that but I'd say Hakeem would have to be second. at that point you just gotta decide how you're gona rank Robinson/Barkley/Malone.

Shaq kind of gets screwed over in both the "who are the best players from the 90s" and "who are the best players from the 2000's" discussions because he accomplished a lot in both decades. …I think Shaq has an almost easy argument as being the best player from 1995-2005.

the bridge players always get screwed haha. You could do a best player from 1990-2010, etc.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:51 PM
Shaq's career spanned over 2 decades, his absolute peak came in the early 2000's, so he is just behind:

MJ
Dream
Robinson
Barkley
Malone

i posted without reading- yeah- its like- where do you put Shaq here and how to you rank the three behind Hakeem. Shaq did play 70-80% of the decade but yeah- that peak dominance came later.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:52 PM
the bridge players always get screwed haha. You could do a best player from 1990-2010, etc.

I know. I think LBJ is this generations bridge player (I think most bridge players seem to be drafted between the second and fourth year in the decade) '92 draft, '03 draft? maybe thats dumb. but maybe not i mean MJ did dominate the 80s on a personal level as well, '84 draftee.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 09:02 PM
i posted without reading- yeah- its like- where do you put Shaq here and how to you rank the three behind Hakeem. Shaq did play 70-80% of the decade but yeah- that peak dominance came later.

all time only MJ is ahead of him on my list.

hidalgo
12-20-2013, 09:17 PM
Olajuwon
Shaq (his 90s numbers say peak dominance, & what I saw of him said it too)
David Robinson
Charles Barkley
Karl Mailbags

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 09:26 PM
Olajuwon
Shaq (his 90s numbers say peak dominance, & what I saw of him said it too)
David Robinson
Charles Barkley
Karl Mailbags

where is that dude who won 6 chips and is considered the GOAT?

Bruno
12-20-2013, 09:47 PM
all time only MJ is ahead of him on my list.

my only gripe is that we never got to see him go up against a dominant crop of Cs during his peak championship seasons/playoff runs. he went unchallenged as soon as those 90's greats got too old. other than the robinson/duncan duo.

WadeKobe
12-20-2013, 09:52 PM
I can live with your SLIGHT overranking on Barkley, but how is Stockton ahead of Dream, Robinson, Malone, or Shaq?

Slight typo. I was typing names down and goin between multiple windows looking at different sites and stats, and my browser was resetting. So I copy/pasted and never caught that Stockton was where he was. However, to say he wasn't top5 for the decade is insane, IMO.

That being said, I am not sure I want to change it.

Malone - Stockton was, quite simply, better than Malone. Period.

Shaq - while Shaq had some great seasons, he missed 3 years and was injured for 3 more from 97-99, missing a whole season's worth of games in that span. He basically only played 55% of the decade. Regardless of all time rankings, it would be impossible, IMO to put Shaq above Stockton from 90-99.

So, those two remain below Stockton, and were that way intentionally.

Dream and DRob are where it gets a little trickier. I probably would have put them over him originally, and didn't intend to have Stockton above them.

Dream - his best seasons were certainly better than Stockton's, but he starts declining earlier. Also, during the time period, Stockton is the clear winner in WinShares, Wins Produced, and RAPM, on a total and per-minute/possession basis.

Stockton wasn't jus on consistently better teams, he was the engine that made those teams better. I think he may be one of the most underrated players of all time. Malone gets the credit because of the whole Yay! Points! Mentality, but the reality is tha Stockton was the better and more important piece to those teams.

Robinson - he probably goes into my 2/3 spot after MJ/Barkley, but I hate ever putting him above Dream in any context.

So... I am gonna stick with Stockton at 3, though I get it. I just think he is that good and tha underrated.

Also, another one of my gripes --- Stockton is amazing by WS, but would be even better if USG% was an even me lightly meaningful measure. Shots created by assists are universally more valuable than shots created by the shooter/scorer, and a PG like Kidd, Nash, or Stockton all are every but as important to their teams' offensive success passing the ball as a "Scorer" like Kobe is as a "#1 option" or "Shooter of last resort". Yet, usg is determined by shots and turnovers. So someone who misses a lot of shots gets a bump in their usage, and thus a bump in their WS48 and PER as long as they remain a or above league average in efficiency, while a great ball distributor gets punished by seeing his usg% go down when he passes to an open scorer instead of missing a shot. Even though it is the second play, not the first, tha has the larger contribution to winning.

So, imagine if Assists were calculated somehow into usg, and imagine then jus how much more impressive Stockton would look.

hidalgo
12-21-2013, 03:18 AM
where is that dude who won 6 chips and is considered the GOAT?goes without saying, he was the best ever. figured I'd write everyone else after his airness

JasonJohnHorn
12-21-2013, 10:00 AM
Hakeem
D-Rob
Jordan
Malone
Barkley
Shaq (Shaq didn't hit his stride until the late 90's: he'd rank #1 if you asked me to rank players between 98-08).