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TrueFan420
12-20-2013, 04:45 AM
Who you got and why (I know its hard to judge different era's but try)...

There's the obvious options

Auerbach
Pop
Jackson
Riley

Any others deserve to be with that group

Iron24th
12-20-2013, 04:49 AM
Phil of course, but I'm biased

TrueFan420
12-20-2013, 04:53 AM
Phil of course, but I'm biased

I got to go Pop. Dude brings the best out of every player under him and doesn't need to manage egos cause he gets them to check them at the door for the betterment of the team or he drops you like a bad habit.

WARRIORS@GR
12-20-2013, 04:58 AM
Popovich,despite last year's bad decision which is his biggest mistake imo.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 03:14 PM
has phil jackson ever made a play call, or personal rotation call that cost his team the NBA Finals trophy?

Pop is the great coach of this era, but his recent blunder and lack of hardware compared to Jackson and Red bump him out of the conversation in my book. you can't make a coaching mistake that costs your team the championship and be considered better then men who have almost tripled your championship tally. not in my book at least.

'better' is in the eye of the beholder, but he's certainly not more accomplished or legendary than Phil or Red. I give Phil the nod over Red because he won all his championships in an era where you had to play four rounds to walk away with the ring. half those 60's Celtics championships had a two round post-seaon. Red may be the greatest overall basketball mind in terms of being able to play GM as well, but if we isolate it strictly on coaching, Phil Jackson is the guy.

MikefromMars
12-20-2013, 03:30 PM
has phil jackson ever made a play call, or personal rotation call that cost his team the NBA Finals trophy?

Pop is the great coach of this era, but his recent blunder and lack of hardware compared to Jackson and Red bump him out of the conversation in my book. you can't make a coaching mistake that costs your team the championship and be considered better then men who have almost tripled your championship tally. not in my book at least.

'better' is in the eye of the beholder, but he's certainly not more accomplished or legendary than Phil or Red. I give Phil the nod over Red because he won all his championships in an era where you had to play four rounds to walk away with the ring. half those 60's Celtics championships had a two round post-seaon. Red may be the greatest overall basketball mind in terms of being able to play GM as well, but if we isolate it strictly on coaching, Phil Jackson is the guy.

Solid arguement. I still voted Pop. He maximizes talent and has been extremely successful with multiple schemes taylored to his personnel. One thing all these coaches have had is the best players in NBA history playing on their teams, but Pop is still doing it with a Duncan who is past his prime. Can't say the same for the others...

b@llhog24
12-20-2013, 03:32 PM
Well i think Pop was the best, but Red would be my pick for the greatest if that makes sense.

iDefend10
12-20-2013, 03:33 PM
I voted zen master, but man I was torn between him and pop. Can't go wrong with either one.

THE MTL
12-20-2013, 03:37 PM
I choose Pop because his in-game adjustments and the way he optimizes the talent that he has is unbelieveable. Auerbach and Jackson have coached some RIDICULOUSLY talented teams with multiple MVP caliber players, while Pop has great talent on his teams as well.....the other two coaches have had better teams.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 03:57 PM
Tim Duncan is every bit as good as Bill Russell, Shaq, Magic, or Kobe. Pop built his foundation on a top ten all time player and the greatest PF in NBA history who has displayed old school grit and loyalty throughout his career. David Robinson was a great player even in his later days, Tony Parker is a future HOFer and a finals MVP caliber player, Ginobli is possibly the greatest 6th man in league history and the Spurs have been blessed with some of the greatest most clutch role players in NBA history with Robert Horry and Steve Kerr.

Pop had the talent everybody, lets not under emphasize that fact just because San Antonio isn't a huge market.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 03:58 PM
I choose Pop because his in-game adjustments and the way he optimizes the talent that he has is unbelieveable. Auerbach and Jackson have coached some RIDICULOUSLY talented teams with multiple MVP caliber players, while Pop has great talent on his teams as well.....the other two coaches have had better teams.
except for in the two most important plays of last years season.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 04:01 PM
Solid arguement. I still voted Pop. He maximizes talent and has been extremely successful with multiple schemes taylored to his personnel. One thing all these coaches have had is the best players in NBA history playing on their teams, but Pop is still doing it with a Duncan who is past his prime. Can't say the same for the others...

championship or bust man. Pop hasn't done it with Duncan since 2007. he blundered last years renaissance by out smarting himself and sitting the man who's the anchor of it all on the most important defensive possession of the season. he doesn't get a pass there.

iDefend10
12-20-2013, 04:01 PM
I think if Duncan is in that game at the end of game 6 Bosh doesn't get that rebound and the outcome would be different.

ghettosean
12-20-2013, 04:01 PM
Don't know much about Auerbach I can only comment on the coaches I've watched and Pop was my choice hands down between the other choices.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 04:04 PM
I think if Duncan is in that game at the end of game 6 Bosh doesn't get that rebound and the outcome would be different.

you, me, and everybody else man. pop lost last years championship for the spurs, they had it won. the trophy was already rolled out on to the floor.

Purch
12-20-2013, 04:14 PM
championship or bust man. Pop hasn't done it with Duncan since 2007. he blundered last years renaissance by sitting the man who's the anchor of it all. he doesn't get a pass there.
Championship or bust based on what standard, yours? That's like saying Mj underachieved because he only won the championship in 6 of his years in the league. The reality is there's very few teams in league history that have multiple finals appearances, because to get to the finals everything health wise and matchup wise has to Aline at the right time.

As an nba fan , it seems crazy to me that someone can look at a franchise that has won 60% of their games every season, for 17 straight years, has 4 championships and can sum it up as "championship or bust man" . If you're going be that consistent over 17 years, without a rebuild, I don't see how it's realistic to be championship or bust every season.

As a Jazz fan , I look at the Spurs and see the Stockton and Malone Jazz, but with the titles in addition to that Consistencey

savvy1803
12-20-2013, 04:16 PM
Who you got and why (I know its hard to judge different era's but try)...

There's the obvious options

Auerbach
Pop
Jackson
Riley

Any others deserve to be with that group

John Wooden possibly should get a mention .

jerellh528
12-20-2013, 04:17 PM
I vote zen master, I love pop as well, but like Bruno pointed out, pop made some pretty costly mistakes last finals that lost the spurs a ring, that notched him down just enough to be #2 IMO. As far as red goes, I'm too young to judge because I've never witnessed first-hand how he manages players, plays, adjustments etc, but he has an amazing track record.

Purch
12-20-2013, 04:18 PM
But yea it wold probably be Red/Phil

Then Riley/pop

jericho
12-20-2013, 04:24 PM
I can only vote for the ones i have seen so that rules out Red. Im going with Pop because all he has done he has done it with the same team, yes he has been blessed with having Timmy and yes he is a top 10 player ever. But Phill has always had better teams in all his runs first those Bulls teams with Jordan and Pippen then he had Shaq and Kobe and after that he had Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and Odom. Which is obviously better than whatever Pop had to work with. Pop ran with the team that was given to him, Jackson always went with the team with the best talent.

BKdoubleStacker
12-20-2013, 04:28 PM
I would have pop then Phil. Red won when there were less teams than I have fingers, and he had teams loaded with hall of famers.

kdspurman
12-20-2013, 05:11 PM
How do people know if Duncan is on the court it's not the same result? I know people keep bringing that up about Pop, but come on... Miami may run something completely different to get Duncan to switch onto Lebron on the perimeter which is the reason why Diaw was in there.

I see the argument of both ways, but yea saying Pop cost the Spurs a title to me is just off base

kdspurman
12-20-2013, 05:14 PM
Pop's ability to grow and develop people? I'd say that's 2nd to none. Coaches are like teachers, and I think Pop does that extremely well. In addition to creating a culture that puts players in a position to play within themselves and check their egos at the door.

Supreme LA
12-20-2013, 05:18 PM
It's basically either Phil or Pop depending on your bias. Us Lakers fans love Phil & the majority of PSD fans/Lakers haters will vote for Pop.

Same ****, different day.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 05:22 PM
Red, but I am weighing in the fact that he was basically a shrewd GM at the same time.

As far as pure coaching, I am going to say Pops with the slightest edge. Though any argument for Phil is acceptable, this boils down to a personal opinion and the fact that Pops has always had less resources to work with.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-20-2013, 05:23 PM
Easy.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 05:25 PM
Pop's ability to grow and develop people? I'd say that's 2nd to none. Coaches are like teachers, and I think Pop does that extremely well. In addition to creating a culture that puts players in a position to play within themselves and check their egos at the door.

yep. He is the best I have ever seen at it.

WES KOAST
12-20-2013, 05:27 PM
Phil of course, but I'm biased

with or w/o talent?

you gotta ask yourself what if pop coached the Jackson teams and vice versa. who would have more titles?

when Jordan retired, Jackson sucked. he also sucked when shaq was traded and until they got gasol.

TrueFan420
12-20-2013, 05:31 PM
It's basically either Phil or Pop depending on your bias. Us Lakers fans love Phil & the majority of PSD fans/Lakers haters will vote for Pop.

Same ****, different day.

See this is why people tend not to like laker fans... Comments like those. If we don't vote Phil it must be cause we hate the lakers can't be cause pop has a legitimate case to be made. You even admit your own bias leading into that comment. Seriously man.

TrueFan420
12-20-2013, 05:34 PM
John Wooden possibly should get a mention .

He was before my time can you elaborate on what made him great.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 06:10 PM
He was before my time can you elaborate on what made him great.

recruiting and he was extremely motivational from what I understand. His players played their butts off for him, and he routinely got the best players in the nation to commit. Talent+effort goes a long way...

savvy1803
12-20-2013, 06:20 PM
He was before my time can you elaborate on what made him great.

Great some say the greatest coach of all , all be it at the college level , his accomplishments are so numerous but here's a link to provide you some info on Mr. Wooden actually a good read and quite an accomplished career , just ask Kareem or Bill Walton .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wooden

ChiSox219
12-20-2013, 06:56 PM
How do people know if Duncan is on the court it's not the same result? I know people keep bringing that up about Pop, but come on... Miami may run something completely different to get Duncan to switch onto Lebron on the perimeter which is the reason why Diaw was in there.

I see the argument of both ways, but yea saying Pop cost the Spurs a title to me is just off base

Yup, I don't like that these kids are jumping all over Pop just to back their own guy. Anyway, this is from a recent SI article:

"All season the Spurs had taken "
Duncan out when leading by three late in games because they switch defenders on every pick-and-roll to blanket the three-point line. At 37, he is the slowest of the starters — and therefore the likeliest to be late on a switch. Duncan, who had 30 points and 16 rebounds, was replaced by Boris Diaw"

TrueFan420
12-20-2013, 07:41 PM
recruiting and he was extremely motivational from what I understand. His players played their butts off for him, and he routinely got the best players in the nation to commit. Talent+effort goes a long way...


Great some say the greatest coach of all , all be it at the college level , his accomplishments are so numerous but here's a link to provide you some info on Mr. Wooden actually a good read and quite an accomplished career , just ask Kareem or Bill Walton .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wooden

Sorry forgot to put NBA coach in thread title but its in poll title. Like coach k he never tried nba?

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 07:54 PM
Sorry forgot to put NBA coach in thread title but its in poll title. Like coach k he never tried nba?

When Wooden was coaching, what appeal did the NBA provide? The money wasn't much more, if at all. Why not stay where you are destroying it?

TrueFan420
12-20-2013, 08:00 PM
When Wooden was coaching, what appeal did the NBA provide? The money wasn't much more, if at all. Why not stay where you are destroying it?

Which is fine but some things don't translate over. One strength was his recruiting, right, while similar its not the same as getting FA to join your team. It's no knock to him. Hell it's hard to judge different nba coaches across different era's.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:09 PM
Which is fine but some things don't translate over. One strength was his recruiting, right, while similar its not the same as getting FA to join your team. It's no knock to him. Hell it's hard to judge different nba coaches across different era's.

sure. But vice versa, an argument can be made that its much harder to succeed at the college level because of the recruiting, etc. The college game is much different now. He basically built an empire. But he is still widely regarded as one of the greatest basketball minds to ever be involved in the sport. He has a case with any NBA coach as greatest coach. As does Pat Summit.

TrueFan420
12-20-2013, 08:11 PM
sure. But vice versa, an argument can be made that its much harder to succeed at the college level because of the recruiting, etc. The college game is much different now. He basically built an empire. But he is still widely regarded as one of the greatest basketball minds to ever be involved in the sport. He has a case with any NBA coach as greatest coach. As does Pat Summit.

Fair enough

savvy1803
12-20-2013, 08:19 PM
Sorry forgot to put NBA coach in thread title but its in poll title. Like coach k he never tried nba?

No problem , i just always considered him a great coach , can still remember when Bill Walton was doing the colour commentary on NBA games how he used to fondly mention John Wooden and would always have a story how John Wooden made him a better player as well as a better man , very inspiring comments .

I just felt that if the discussion was about great basketball coaches in general that he would at least garner a mention and i don't believe he ever coached at the pro level but certainly developed a lot of future professionals .

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:22 PM
Championship or bust based on what standard, yours? That's like saying Mj underachieved because he only won the championship in 6 of his years in the league. The reality is there's very few teams in league history that have multiple finals appearances, because to get to the finals everything health wise and matchup wise has to Aline at the right time.

As an nba fan , it seems crazy to me that someone can look at a franchise that has won 60% of their games every season, for 17 straight years, has 4 championships and can sum it up as "championship or bust man" . If you're going be that consistent over 17 years, without a rebuild, I don't see how it's realistic to be championship or bust every season.

As a Jazz fan , I look at the Spurs and see the Stockton and Malone Jazz, but with the titles in addition to that Consistencey
you play to win the championship. there's no rewards for winning 50 game in a season other than the possibility of HCA. pop and duncan haven't gotten it done since 2007, it's a matter of fact.

these spurs are nothing like those Jazz. those WCF jazz teams were mediocre on defense. the duncan lead spurs have been elite defensively.

savvy1803
12-20-2013, 08:23 PM
sure. But vice versa, an argument can be made that its much harder to succeed at the college level because of the recruiting, etc. The college game is much different now. He basically built an empire. But he is still widely regarded as one of the greatest basketball minds to ever be involved in the sport. He has a case with any NBA coach as greatest coach. As does Pat Summit.

Ahh Pat Summit great mention , entirely agree .

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:25 PM
How do people know if Duncan is on the court it's not the same result? I know people keep bringing that up about Pop, but come on... Miami may run something completely different to get Duncan to switch onto Lebron on the perimeter which is the reason why Diaw was in there.

I see the argument of both ways, but yea saying Pop cost the Spurs a title to me is just off base
…miami wasn't going to run anything different man. the best player on the planet was getting the ball and thats all there was to it. I respect your opinion but i just don't see any getting around this one. you leave the best defensive player on the team on the court when you need a stop and a rebound.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:26 PM
Ahh Pat Summit great mention , entirely agree .

the most underrated coach in all of basketball. I truly believe she has NBA Championship pedigree on the sideline as a HC. Alas, her medical issues will never allow us to see if that is true.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:27 PM
Yup, I don't like that these kids are jumping all over Pop just to back their own guy. Anyway, this is from a recent SI article:

"All season the Spurs had taken "
Duncan out when leading by three late in games because they switch defenders on every pick-and-roll to blanket the three-point line. At 37, he is the slowest of the starters — and therefore the likeliest to be late on a switch. Duncan, who had 30 points and 16 rebounds, was replaced by Boris Diaw"

when I read this, I think- isn't he the King of making the proper adjustments, regardless of what he's done in the past? he failed the make the proper adjustment. this is my opinion.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:28 PM
Pop gets the nod as the best at developing talent to fit into his system, no doubt about it. he's done a brilliant job of plugging in the right pieces around Duncan. it all starts and stops with Duncan.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:30 PM
Pop gets the nod as the best at developing talent to fit into his system, no doubt about it. he's done a brilliant job of plugging in the right pieces around Duncan. it all starts and stops with Duncan.

he has also taken castaways, found what they do well, and tweaked his offense to exploit that skill. He is a master at developing. Best I have ever seen. The Spurs could draft Helen Keller and turn her into a top 5 corner three point shooter..

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:31 PM
with or w/o talent?

you gotta ask yourself what if pop coached the Jackson teams and vice versa. who would have more titles?

when Jordan retired, Jackson sucked. he also sucked when shaq was traded and until they got gasol.

No he didn't he took the year off. when he came back he lead Shaq and Kobe who hadn't accomplished jack to 67 wins and the title.

if you're talking about '94 I recall that team only losing two less games without Jordan than they did the season before with MJ. thats far from sucking my friend.

the talent that Phil Jackson had in 2006 and 2007 doesn't sniff the consistent talent that Pop has had throughout his run. the fact that he lead that team of scrubs around Kobe to 45 wins was incredible, and his best example of developing talent who could eventually become serviceable during a championship run (Bynum,Farmar, Sasha, Walton).

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:32 PM
the one disparity I love between Phil and Pops is the way they act over the same issue. If the Lakers are being beat up on a 9-0 run, Phil is chilling on the bench. He has the confidence his team will figure it out. If a team goes on a 5-0 run against the Spurs, Pops calls a TO and screams at someone.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:33 PM
he has also taken castaways, found what they do well, and tweaked his offense to exploit that skill. He is a master at developing. Best I have ever seen. The Spurs could draft Helen Keller and turn her into a top 5 corner three point shooter..

of course, he's fantastic at that. I'd never say anything less.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:34 PM
don't get me wrong guys- POP is a legend. but he shouldn't be running away with this poll, thats a bit ridiculous considering the other names on this list. But I get it, Jackson and Red represent the utter dominance that have kept your teams down for decades ;)

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:34 PM
of course, he's fantastic at that. I'd never say anything less.

its interesting. I look at Pops as a much better talent evaluator, and developer. But Phil is the master at getting egos on the same page, which is SO hard to do.

If you put their strengths together, that coach would win the next 20 chips haha

savvy1803
12-20-2013, 08:36 PM
the most underrated coach in all of basketball. I truly believe she has NBA Championship pedigree on the sideline as a HC. Alas, her medical issues will never allow us to see if that is true.

In the end all people mentioned had or have great basketball minds , totally went to sleep on Pat Summit and was thinking male coaches which is why i thought your mention of her was a perfect addition to the great coaches already mentioned by the OP .

My fault as well and not trying to derail the thread , i saw the title of the thread and noticed John Wooden was'nt mentioned so i thought he would make a worthy addition .

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:36 PM
the one disparity I love between Phil and Pops is the way they act over the same issue. If the Lakers are being beat up on a 9-0 run, Phil is chilling on the bench. He has the confidence his team will figure it out. If a team goes on a 5-0 run against the Spurs, Pops calls a TO and screams at someone.

guess it just goes to show that people can be brilliant in their own ways. this is in no way a knock on Pop (because I do think he's awesome) but I always admired Phils ability to not micromanage (I'm not saying Pop does this). But I think Phil is the ultimate teacher for the greatest talent. he's found a way to get the three most difficult players in NBA history to follow his lead and achieve great success. to me, getting those egos to fall in line is every big as impressive as developing scrub talent into serviceable role players on championship quality teams.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:37 PM
its interesting. I look at Pops as a much better talent evaluator, and developer. But Phil is the master at getting egos on the same page, which is SO hard to do.

If you put their strengths together, that coach would win the next 20 chips haha

trying to imagine that just blew my mind. I want to see a face. haha

Bruno
12-20-2013, 08:40 PM
John Wooden possibly should get a mention .

absolutely.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:44 PM
guess it just goes to show that people can be brilliant in their own ways. this is in no way a knock on Pop (because I do think he's awesome) but I always admired Phils ability to not micromanage (I'm not saying Pop does this). But I think Phil is the ultimate teacher for the greatest talent. he's found a way to get the three most difficult players in NBA history to follow his lead and achieve great success. to me, getting those egos to fall in line is every big as impressive as developing scrub talent into serviceable role players on championship quality teams.

Phil's brilliance is that he micromanages, while letting the players believe he isn't. He is amazing at knowing when to calm the storm, and when to engage his players and challenge them. Obviously instilling Tex helped him, but no way the Bulls or Lakers had the same success with any other coach. The personalities on those teams wouldn't allow it.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:45 PM
trying to imagine that just blew my mind. I want to see a face. haha

I can PM you my picture hahahahahhah

j/k, j/k, seriously

FlashBolt
12-20-2013, 08:55 PM
I don't you guys understand how great Pop is. He's had the same superstars for nearly a decade and Duncan for 15+ years and is still able to get his team to win games at an elite level. Easily Pop for me. I don't know what it is but you can assemble any team and he will find a way to win.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 09:02 PM
Phil's brilliance is that he micromanages, while letting the players believe he isn't. He is amazing at knowing when to calm the storm, and when to engage his players and challenge them. Obviously instilling Tex helped him, but no way the Bulls or Lakers had the same success with any other coach. The personalities on those teams wouldn't allow it.
and the fans, including myself haha.

im a sucker for Phil because of his alternative approach to the game, and sports in general. i always hated the meat-heat coaches growing up and he seemed to always be the anthesis of that. Pop also falls into that category, more cerebral.

I can PM you my picture hahahahahhah

j/k, j/k, seriously
hahahah :cheers:

I don't you guys understand how great Pop is. He's had the same superstars for nearly a decade and Duncan for 15+ years and is still able to get his team to win games at an elite level. Easily Pop for me. I don't know what it is but you can assemble any team and he will find a way to win.
maybe I'm being a bit hard on Pop with my criticisms. But I think that^ is the luxury that has kept the whole thing afloat, not something he had to overcome.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 09:06 PM
another part of Pops is his ability to manage players as they age. You could never do that without having a strong roster around you. I think much of any coaches credit should go to their GM's as well.

ChiSox219
12-20-2013, 09:20 PM
when I read this, I think- isn't he the King of making the proper adjustments, regardless of what he's done in the past? he failed the make the proper adjustment. this is my opinion.

Man you don't even know what you are talking about.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 09:50 PM
Man you don't even know what you are talking about.

making adjustments is about changing a previously planned strategy. i know he took duncan out all year in those moments. he needed to make an adjustment to his game plan in that moment and he didn't. he stayed the course.

FlashBolt
12-20-2013, 09:52 PM
making adjustments is about changing a previously planned strategy. i know he took duncan out all year in those moments. he needed to make an adjustment to his game plan in that moment and he didn't. he stayed the course.

He's leading an elite team with aging superstars... No excuses there. Greatest coach who can make anyone and anything work. There is no one better than Pop at creating something out of nothing.

Bruno
12-20-2013, 09:56 PM
He's leading an elite team with aging superstars... No excuses there. Greatest coach who can make anyone and anything work. There is no one better than Pop at creating something out of nothing.
i agree.

he's also had the luxury of being GM in his early days and getting the pieces he knew he could make work. even Buford was given his position by Pop, pop gets to develop players he knows will fit his system. having GM powers over your roster is beneficial if you're the coach, its a luxury.

WadeKobe
12-20-2013, 10:12 PM
Wow. Laker hate to the max.

Phil
Pop
Pat

It is hard for me to comment on Red.

ChiSox219
12-20-2013, 10:13 PM
making adjustments is about changing a previously planned strategy. i know he took duncan out all year in those moments. he needed to make an adjustment to his game plan in that moment and he didn't. he stayed the course.

There was no adjustment to make, the three Lebron took was deep because Diaw was there to switch. If Duncan is in Lebron gets a better look and Bosh still gets the rebound because Duncan has to contest the 3.

Or are you saying don't switch and give up an open 3 in a 3 point game to a 40% 3p shooter who also happens to be the best player on Earth?

WadeKobe
12-20-2013, 10:22 PM
Agreed. And Diaw had been playing better defense on LeBron than anyone else in the series. So he is naturally the better shift in that sense.

However, it's Duncan. If you keep him in and it goes wrong, no one can question you.

I am not saying Pop made the right decision with Diaw, but I do think the mistake mentality is overstated.

kdspurman
12-20-2013, 10:34 PM
…miami wasn't going to run anything different man. the best player on the planet was getting the ball and thats all there was to it. I respect your opinion but i just don't see any getting around this one. you leave the best defensive player on the team on the court when you need a stop and a rebound.

If Duncan is in, they run a P&R to get Duncan to switch onto Lebron. In that case, Lebron has the chance to take Duncan off the dribble and get a 2 and make it a FT game, or he has the chance to have some space b/w he and Duncan to take a good looking 3 point shot. Now in that case, if Lebron misses, guess where Duncan is... Out on the perimeter not able to contend for the rebound.

It's nearly the same thing that Vogel got so much heat for, and I understood why he did that too. You play your players that matchup the best. Pop had Diaw in there against GS as well cause frankly Duncan just was not quick enough on the perimeter. I obviously hate the outcome, but Pop stuck with what had worked with his team on several occasions. People will obviously look at that play as the reason for the loss, but when looking @ the totality of the game that's just not the case. Miami was in control of the game till Parker put them ahead late. Bottom line, if we knock down our FT's, we win that game.

I won't put that against Pop for playing the guys he felt would defend Miami the best. Especially when you look @ how well Leonard was rebounding in that series, he was the 2nd best rebounded behind Duncan. I understand your POV, and respect your opinion, just don't agree. :)

Bruno
12-21-2013, 04:32 AM
There was no adjustment to make, the three Lebron took was deep because Diaw was there to switch. If Duncan is in Lebron gets a better look and Bosh still gets the rebound because Duncan has to contest the 3.

Or are you saying don't switch and give up an open 3 in a 3 point game to a 40% 3p shooter who also happens to be the best player on Earth?


If Duncan is in, they run a P&R to get Duncan to switch onto Lebron. In that case, Lebron has the chance to take Duncan off the dribble and get a 2 and make it a FT game, or he has the chance to have some space b/w he and Duncan to take a good looking 3 point shot. Now in that case, if Lebron misses, guess where Duncan is... Out on the perimeter not able to contend for the rebound.

It's nearly the same thing that Vogel got so much heat for, and I understood why he did that too. You play your players that matchup the best. Pop had Diaw in there against GS as well cause frankly Duncan just was not quick enough on the perimeter. I obviously hate the outcome, but Pop stuck with what had worked with his team on several occasions. People will obviously look at that play as the reason for the loss, but when looking @ the totality of the game that's just not the case. Miami was in control of the game till Parker put them ahead late. Bottom line, if we knock down our FT's, we win that game.

I won't put that against Pop for playing the guys he felt would defend Miami the best. Especially when you look @ how well Leonard was rebounding in that series, he was the 2nd best rebounded behind Duncan. I understand your POV, and respect your opinion, just don't agree. :)

I feel you guys. But why do we have to assume that Duncan has to guard a big when a better match up could have been had. if its about maximizing a match-up and getting savvy- I put Duncan on a hobbled Wade; don't allow him to be on a big who will set the screen for the eventual switch. LBJ was gona end up with the ball, and he's gona take that shot. if LBJ happens to kick it to Wade? Duncan gives him all the space in the world. worst case scenario, Wade drives in and gets a bucket- and it becomes a free throw game. Best case scenario, Wade and his 25% three point shot goes up for the look instead of LeBron and Ray.

securing that final rebound is a part of a successful defensive possession and SA didn't have the right personal on the floor to come down with that rebound, imo. and i think vogel made the same mistake. Miami wants you to play small ball, you can't play into their hands, gotta play to your advantage. size.

watch that play again, imagine Duncan sagging off Wade. i like that better.

kdspurman
12-21-2013, 11:20 AM
I feel you guys. But why do we have to assume that Duncan has to guard a big when a better match up could have been had. if its about maximizing a match-up and getting savvy- I put Duncan on a hobbled Wade; don't allow him to be on a big who will set the screen for the eventual switch. LBJ was gona end up with the ball, and he's gona take that shot. if LBJ happens to kick it to Wade? Duncan gives him all the space in the world. worst case scenario, Wade drives in and gets a bucket- and it becomes a free throw game. Best case scenario, Wade and his 25% three point shot goes up for the look instead of LeBron and Ray.

securing that final rebound is a part of a successful defensive possession and SA didn't have the right personal on the floor to come down with that rebound, imo. and i think vogel made the same mistake. Miami wants you to play small ball, you can't play into their hands, gotta play to your advantage. size.

watch that play again, imagine Duncan sagging off Wade. i like that better.

If Duncan was on Wade, they probably get Wade to attack him. Pop put Splitter on Wade when Miami changed their starting lineup, and Wade burned him. Pop took Splitter out 1 minute into the game lol. (i thought the same thing about putting a big on Wade) Wade had some very big games, especially when Lebron struggled. He finished with 21 & 10 in game 7, so it's not like he was completely hobbled. We also know how good Wade is at getting a whistle, and his little pump fake. Duncan is usually good at staying on his feet, but it's also possible Wade gets him in the air and gets an and 1 or gets 2 FT's stopping the clock.

I get playing to your advantages too, and keeping size out there. But Spurs can play small ball with the best of them and I thought that was pretty evident throughout that series. Duncan/Leonard/Ginobili/Green/Parker was a lineup used very often and its not like Miami was head and shoulders above them when we went small. Cause even with Duncan out there, he still had an advantage, especially if Bosh was guarding him 1 on 1.

A lot of what ifs, but I guess it bothers me when folks use this against Pop's legacy. I guess I feel it's a little unfair to say Pop cost his team a championship when we really don't know what would have happened if he did things differently.

Cal827
12-21-2013, 11:54 AM
From what I've seen; Popovich, easily.

3RDASYSTEM
12-21-2013, 12:37 PM
BROWN-POP-RILEY-RED all tied

PHIL

BROWN was able to take true bottom feeders to playoffs and further and we all saw what he did with a ship ready type roster in 04-05 seasons, POP has been the GM/HeadCoach since DUNCAN's inception, RILEY did what he did with showtime LAKERS and then going on to lead KNICKS to Finals trip plus had the HEAT competitive as HeadCoach and now GM/Quasi HeadCoach role and we all know what RED did from HeadCoach to FrontOffice role putting together that later C's type dynasty, those are the best of the best, its like 2way player in the NBA, same role with HeadCoach/GM type roles in my book