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valade16
12-16-2013, 03:13 AM
The Blazers currently have the best record in the west at 21-4 and LaMarcus Aldridge has seemingly elevated his game this season (particularly his rebounds).

So if we were to cast our ballots for the MVP of the league thus far where would you put him? Top 10? Top 5? Runner up to LBJ? 3rd behind LBJ and Durant?

Who would you vote ahead of him and why?

JEDean89
12-16-2013, 03:23 AM
James
Durant
George
Aldridge
CP3

James probably won't win MVP this year because of media reasons but he is still #1 in the NBA. My guess is whichever team has the best record gets their guy the MVP.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 03:36 AM
^I'd throw CP3 over him too. LA's been awesome, but I don't see him as any more than the 3rd best PF in the West. That team is gelling and while he might be the face, Lillard/Batum/Matthews have all been huge, and the addition of Lopez to help shore up LA's weaker interior D might be what's really bringing it all together.

But Lebron, KD and Cp3 are just too much better than him for me to consider him in MVP consideration over guys like that while their squads are all HCA as well (OKC only being behind in wins due to games played).

Hawkeye15
12-16-2013, 03:38 AM
LeBron
Durant
Paul

then you get George, and Love.

mrblisterdundee
12-16-2013, 04:37 AM
1. LeBron James
2. Paul George
3. Kevin Durant
4. LaMarcus Aldridge
5. Chris Paul

The Clippers have five more losses than the Blazers, so there's no way Paul is ranked higher than Aldridge at this point.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 04:45 AM
Durant probably has the best case for #1 given his recent play, tbh.

Where's the "MVP Discussion" sticky thread this year? Mid December, I'd say it's worth having up.

TheBigChief
12-16-2013, 05:54 AM
Durant
Lebron
George
LMA
CP3

NoahH
12-16-2013, 12:50 PM
MVP is often the "Best Player on the Best Team" so because of that Aldridge is high up on the list. That's why D Rose won it that one year.

LeBron
Durant
PG
Aldridge
CP3

Tony_Starks
12-16-2013, 12:53 PM
Runner up behind Paul George.

2-ONE-5
12-16-2013, 01:08 PM
right now he is #1.

1. LMA
2. PG
3. James
4. KD
5. CP

valade16
12-16-2013, 01:19 PM
LeBron
Durant
Paul

then you get George, and Love.

Love is an interesting case. His statistcs are superior to Aldridge's however his team is 12-12. I know that there is only so much one player can affect a team, however the reason given for why the Timberwolves were not that good the last 2 seasons was because of injuries. The prevalent thought was once Love, Pekovic, and Rubio actually play together, they will have a good record.

Well not only have all of them played nearly every game, they added Kevin Martin to shore up their wing play, negating their biggest weakness... and yet here they are, at .500. It is important to note that many picked the Timberwolves to finish ahead of the Blazers and most said the Timberwolves were the more talented team.

Since you are a Wolves fan, what is going on or is it simply a matter of the Blazers being a better team?

Guppyfighter
12-16-2013, 02:53 PM
Outside the ballot. You'd be hard pressed to argue LA is the best player on the Blazers, let alone top five in the league.

jerellh528
12-16-2013, 02:54 PM
#2 behind george.

Guppyfighter
12-16-2013, 02:56 PM
Love is an interesting case. His statistcs are superior to Aldridge's however his team is 12-12. I know that there is only so much one player can affect a team, however the reason given for why the Timberwolves were not that good the last 2 seasons was because of injuries. The prevalent thought was once Love, Pekovic, and Rubio actually play together, they will have a good record.

Well not only have all of them played nearly every game, they added Kevin Martin to shore up their wing play, negating their biggest weakness... and yet here they are, at .500. It is important to note that many picked the Timberwolves to finish ahead of the Blazers and most said the Timberwolves were the more talented team.

Since you are a Wolves fan, what is going on or is it simply a matter of the Blazers being a better team?

Blazers are the better team. Rubio is extremely talented, but actually a detriment on offense thanks to his ability to not hit anything. Although, Twolves Differential is nearly +4 so I wouldn't worry too much about them. They will be in the playoffs.

Red_Pill
12-16-2013, 03:17 PM
Love is an interesting case. His statistcs are superior to Aldridge's however his team is 12-12. I know that there is only so much one player can affect a team, however the reason given for why the Timberwolves were not that good the last 2 seasons was because of injuries. The prevalent thought was once Love, Pekovic, and Rubio actually play together, they will have a good record.

Well not only have all of them played nearly every game, they added Kevin Martin to shore up their wing play, negating their biggest weakness... and yet here they are, at .500. It is important to note that many picked the Timberwolves to finish ahead of the Blazers and most said the Timberwolves were the more talented team.

Since you are a Wolves fan, what is going on or is it simply a matter of the Blazers being a better team?

Several reasons.

Wolves have had the third hardest schedule, behind Memphis and Utah. Portland is 9th. For example, we've played OKC twice, the Clippers twice, would have played San Antonio twice, if not for that fire, as well as Houston, Indiana, and Miami within the span of a week. And not to mention quite a few back to backs as well as having played more games on the road so far.

Love is averaging 25PPG, 14RPG, and has a PER of 27.45. He's been playing phenomenally. Pek has been averaging 16PPG and 8RPG witha PER of almost 18. Rubio has been averaging 10/8/4 along with about 3 steals a game and he's starting to hit his shots. Kevin Martin is averaging 20 a game with a PER of 18. Our starting unit is not the problem. Our bench is one of, if not the worst in the league. Our starters usually give us a huge lead, and our bench ends up blowing it. The return of Turiaf and Budinger should help.

And lastly, our defense is awful. Which is why we traded Williams for Mbah a Moute. And while Rubio gets a lot of steals, he's consistently being beaten by the speedy point guards in the league. Teams with fast and solid point-guards are our weakness since Rubio isn't very quick, and we have no real interior shot blocker, outside of Dieng, who is a rookie. As of this post, we've won 3 of our last 4, with the only loss coming against the Spurs, who we had beat until we sucked in the fourth quarter.

I expect the Twolves will start getting more wins as our schedule eases up. And I also expect Portland to come back down to earth, because I do not see them as a real contender in the west. I still think OKC is coming out of the west.

Red_Pill
12-16-2013, 03:19 PM
Blazers are the better team. Rubio is extremely talented, but actually a detriment on offense thanks to his ability to not hit anything. Although, Twolves Differential is nearly +4 so I wouldn't worry too much about them. They will be in the playoffs.

Wolves starting five is superior to the Blazers starting five. The reason they are the better team, which I agree with you, is their bench. We're in the situation they were in last year in which our starters are doing well, but our bench is sucking. And the Blazers play much better defense.

Guppyfighter
12-16-2013, 03:23 PM
Wolves starting five is superior to the Blazers starting five. The reason they are the better team, which I agree with you, is their bench. We're in the situation they were in last year in which our starters are doing well, but our bench is sucking. And the Blazers play much better defense.

I prefer the Blazers starting five over the Twolves. Especially Lillard over Rubio. That is a major advantage in production there. Plus the Blazers have Batum and Wesley. It's amazing we didn't know how good the Blazers were before this.

Red_Pill
12-16-2013, 03:28 PM
I prefer the Blazers starting five over the Twolves. Especially Lillard over Rubio. That is a major advantage in production there. Plus the Blazers have Batum and Wesley. It's amazing we didn't know how good the Blazers were before this.

I still would take our starting five as a whole, but I would gladly take Lillard and Batum for Rubio and Brewer haha. Kmart is better than Mattews, Love is MUCH better than Aldridge, and Pek is better than Lopez. But like I said, Portland is overachieving. They're a jump shooting team, and right now, their shots are dropping, but when they don't, they'll be like last years New York Knicks who fell into the same problem.

valade16
12-16-2013, 03:28 PM
Outside the ballot. You'd be hard pressed to argue LA is the best player on the Blazers, let alone top five in the league.

Who on earth on the Blazers is better than LMA?! Damian Lillard is good and can shoot like crazy but he needs to up his shooting % and learn to finish around the basket before he can be considered as good, let alone better, than LMA...


Several reasons.

Wolves have had the third hardest schedule, behind Memphis and Utah. Portland is 9th. For example, we've played OKC twice, the Clippers twice, would have played San Antonio twice, if not for that fire, as well as Houston, Indiana, and Miami within the span of a week. And not to mention quite a few back to backs as well as having played more games on the road so far.

That's not a huge difference in schedule difficulty to see the massive difference in wins. Besides, the Blazers are a combined 5-1 against the teams you mentioned.


Wolves starting five is superior to the Blazers starting five. The reason they are the better team, which I agree with you, is their bench. We're in the situation they were in last year in which our starters are doing well, but our bench is sucking. And the Blazers play much better defense.

I completely disagree. The Blazers starting 5 is perhaps the best starting 5 in the entire league (Indiana has a good argument, and the Heat depending on how much stock you put in their big 3).

Also, whlie our bench has improved since last season (when they were the worst bench in the league) but it is still statistically below average. I did not know about the Wolves bench being so bad, and perhaps that does explain a lot of their problems, but do you really think if the Wolves bench was healthy they would be at 21-4?

Tony_Starks
12-16-2013, 03:37 PM
The very mention of Love MVP discussion is sheer blasphemy. Putting up good numbers on a bad team doesn't get you recognized.

Red_Pill
12-16-2013, 03:49 PM
That's not a huge difference in schedule difficulty to see the massive difference in wins. Besides, the Blazers are a combined 5-1 against the teams you mentioned.

As I said, overachieving. You guys are a better team than a lot of people thought, but you're this years Knicks. All your jumpshots are falling right now, but you have limited post offense to help you through the lean times. Your team will come back down to earth like last years knicks, though probably not as hard of a fall since you guys can play great D


I completely disagree. The Blazers starting 5 is perhaps the best starting 5 in the entire league (Indiana has a good argument, and the Heat depending on how much stock you put in their big 3).

I think Lillard and Batum are the only two players on your starting five that I'd want in Minnesota. Kmart is better than Wesley, even though Wesley is having a career year. Obviously, I'd take Love over Aldridge, and Lopez is a solid defender, but I'd still take Pek over him. Pek's starting to get into his groove now. He's been averaging close to 20 and 10 the last 5 games or so.

Also, whlie our bench has improved since last season (when they were the worst bench in the league) but it is still statistically below average. I did not know about the Wolves bench being so bad, and perhaps that does explain a lot of their problems, but do you really think if the Wolves bench was healthy they would be at 21-4?

Ours is the worst in the league this year, I believe. Barea sucks. Cunningham can only hit perimeter jumpshots, Schved has been abysmal, shooting 16% from 3. Bleacher report just came out with an article today about our ****** bench. It's a night and day difference in regard to our starters and bench. They're so bad. If we had a competent bench, we would be well over .500. They've lost most of our games for us.

Red_Pill
12-16-2013, 03:55 PM
The very mention of Love MVP discussion is sheer blasphemy. Putting up good numbers on a bad team doesn't get you recognized.

With how bad our bench is, if he could will us to the playoffs, he should be in the running. Our starters are awesome, but our bench is sooooooo bad.

ThaDubs
12-16-2013, 04:08 PM
LeBron
Durant
Paul

then you get George, and Love.

I'd put Love over George. Love is averaging what, 25/14/4? Compared to PG's 24/5.5/3.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 04:20 PM
right now he is #1.

1. LMA
2. PG
3. James
4. KD
5. CP


Runner up behind Paul George.

i'd like to see the PG and LMA over Durant and Lebron argument from someone.

Tony_Starks
12-16-2013, 04:29 PM
i'd like to see the PG and LMA over Durant and Lebron argument from someone.

It's a easy argument. They're putting up great numbers on teams that are better. That's the recipe, best player on best team.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 04:34 PM
It's a easy argument. They're putting up great numbers on teams that are better. That's the recipe, best player on best team.
Neither team are "better" enough to make a difference, though. They're 2 seeds, and OKC is only behind insofar as they have 2 less games played - same in the win column as Portland. "Great numbers" isn't what I was looking for, I wanted an argument. They aren't Lebron or Durant #'s, and have not dominated like those two. If you have an argument other than simple rhetoric, we can get into it.

Hawkeye15
12-16-2013, 04:47 PM
Love is an interesting case. His statistcs are superior to Aldridge's however his team is 12-12. I know that there is only so much one player can affect a team, however the reason given for why the Timberwolves were not that good the last 2 seasons was because of injuries. The prevalent thought was once Love, Pekovic, and Rubio actually play together, they will have a good record.

Well not only have all of them played nearly every game, they added Kevin Martin to shore up their wing play, negating their biggest weakness... and yet here they are, at .500. It is important to note that many picked the Timberwolves to finish ahead of the Blazers and most said the Timberwolves were the more talented team.

Since you are a Wolves fan, what is going on or is it simply a matter of the Blazers being a better team?

so far, the Blazers have been better. But, there are circumstances. The Blazers have had a much softer schedule (.504) than the Wolves, who have the 3rd toughest in the league so far (.547), and the Blazers are seemingly winning EVERY close game. Their statistical output suggests they should be 18-7. The Wolves, are seemingly losing every single close game. Their statistical output suggest they should be 15-9.

Regarding Love versus Aldridge, it's clear which one has played better. Love. Rubio has not progressed at all, and our bench is a laughing stock. Martin has been ice cold in December. Also factor in that you have had literally no injuries, and guys like Matthews and a handful of others playing over their heads, and when the schedule gets rougher, and injuries start coming, the Blazers record will reflect it. And just more games in general will reflect that they are not the 21-4 team we see before us.

LMA is having maybe his best season, but he is not a top 5 player.

Hawkeye15
12-16-2013, 04:56 PM
http://www.82games.com/1314/1314MIN.HTM


we don't have a single bench player in the +, except the one that is hurt. Look at Love's on/off differential.

Guppyfighter
12-16-2013, 04:59 PM
Who on earth on the Blazers is better than LMA?! Damian Lillard is good and can shoot like crazy but he needs to up his shooting % and learn to finish around the basket before he can be considered as good, let alone better, than LMA...



That's not a huge difference in schedule difficulty to see the massive difference in wins. Besides, the Blazers are a combined 5-1 against the teams you mentioned.



I completely disagree. The Blazers starting 5 is perhaps the best starting 5 in the entire league (Indiana has a good argument, and the Heat depending on how much stock you put in their big 3).

Also, whlie our bench has improved since last season (when they were the worst bench in the league) but it is still statistically below average. I did not know about the Wolves bench being so bad, and perhaps that does explain a lot of their problems, but do you really think if the Wolves bench was healthy they would be at 21-4?

Why does he need his FG percentage up? He shoots nearly seven threes a game. Of course his FG percentage is low. His TS is 560. He's the cog to that engine.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 05:16 PM
http://www.82games.com/1314/1314MIN.HTM


we don't have a single bench player in the +, except the one that is hurt. Look at Love's on/off differential.
Yikes, reminds me of a team I know: http://www.82games.com/1314/1314GSW.HTM

Marueese Speights fans in our forum should check that one out ^


Here's the BBREF stat rundown of the top 5 most are discussing. Didn't include Love, but I do agree with what Hawk's saying here. That team is better than its record, and the Blazers are not. It should start to even out more as the season progresses.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=georgpa01&y1=2014&p2=aldrila01&y2=2014&p3=jamesle01&y3=2014&p4=duranke01&y4=2014&p5=paulch01&y5=2014#advanced::none

tredigs
12-16-2013, 05:18 PM
Those 82games need updating, though. That's just month 1.

Sadds The Gr8
12-16-2013, 05:18 PM
4, after lbj, George, kd

Hawkeye15
12-16-2013, 05:21 PM
Those 82games need updating, though. That's just month 1.

not much has changed dude...

IndyRealist
12-16-2013, 05:23 PM
Outside the ballot. You'd be hard pressed to argue LA is the best player on the Blazers, let alone top five in the league.

This. The difference between last year and this year is unreal shooting from Wes Matthews and Nic Batum, not from LMA improving. That, and having an uninjured center.

Hawkeye15
12-16-2013, 05:39 PM
Love isn't getting a sniff at it anyways if the Wolves finish around, or even just over .500, so he can be removed as a serious candidate.

LeBron
Durant
Paul

those are my legitimate candidates, the ones that belong there currently.

George
LMA

Those are the two playing very well, albeit under MPV level, on the top teams.

Love
Curry
Drummond
Lillard
Harden

notables who are having great statistical years.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 05:48 PM
^I'd hang Anthony Davis right in there. I think he's back next week.

Hawkeye15
12-16-2013, 05:50 PM
^I'd hang Anthony Davis right in there. I think he's back next week.

true, he fits in that bottom category for sure.

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-16-2013, 05:54 PM
George
LA
Durant/lebron

WARRIORS@GR
12-16-2013, 06:02 PM
George
LA
Durant/lebronlol

FlashBolt
12-16-2013, 06:19 PM
lol

That's not the shocking part.. The shocking part is he didn't mention Kobe.

WARRIORS@GR
12-16-2013, 06:29 PM
That's not the shocking part.. The shocking part is he didn't mention Kobe.It won't be long before he starts making those lists.

jerellh528
12-16-2013, 06:30 PM
george
Aldridge
durant
lbj

everyone else: cp3, curry, parker, love.

WARRIORS@GR
12-16-2013, 06:50 PM
Kobe fans were making a case for Kobe being MVP last year.Or at least top 3.Now filling their list based on team W-L record,ignoring stats and domination.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 06:54 PM
Durant > Lebron >>> CP3 / George >>>

That's how I see it as is.

George had an incredible start, but he's slowed down a bit while Durant has absolutely been torching (29/9/5 on 53/49/89 his last 10 games where OKC is 9-1). Overall on the year, he has also clearly been better. Advanced or per-game stats or eye test in their h2h will show you that. And nearly identical records with Indy having a better overall team while Westy tries to regain his form. Durant is an easy choice over PG.

jerellh528
12-16-2013, 07:04 PM
It won't be long before he starts making those lists.

Let's see him actually put together a good streak of dominant games first, it's premature to make that assumption. But if he leads the lakers to a top 4 west seed, then he would have a shot. But c'mon man, it's far too early to throw kobe in the conversation no matter how much you love him.

valade16
12-16-2013, 07:20 PM
Why does he need his FG percentage up? He shoots nearly seven threes a game. Of course his FG percentage is low. His TS is 560. He's the cog to that engine.

Because it speaks to his inefficiency finishing around the rim. He is 3rd in 3-pointers taken in the league. Curry shoots as many but still manages to make 48% of his 2pt shots. Lillard shoots 38%. In order for him to take the next step and become elite he needs to get that number up. His TS% is so high because he never misses a FT and he shoots a good % from 3, but that doesn't mean there aren't holes to his game.

Aldridge is the leader of that team and the one they go most of the time down the stretch to give them a lift or get them back into a game. Obviously game winners (like what we saw last night) still go to the shooters, but the heavy lifting to get to that point is almost always Aldridge.

DR_1
12-16-2013, 07:54 PM
Top 5. LeBron, Paul George, and KD have all been better.

shep33
12-16-2013, 09:49 PM
I put him first... If we're talking the logic of how Nash won the award.

tredigs
12-16-2013, 09:56 PM
Because it speaks to his inefficiency finishing around the rim. He is 3rd in 3-pointers taken in the league. Curry shoots as many but still manages to make 48% of his 2pt shots. Lillard shoots 38%. In order for him to take the next step and become elite he needs to get that number up. His TS% is so high because he never misses a FT and he shoots a good % from 3, but that doesn't mean there aren't holes to his game.

Aldridge is the leader of that team and the one they go most of the time down the stretch to give them a lift or get them back into a game. Obviously game winners (like what we saw last night) still go to the shooters, but the heavy lifting to get to that point is almost always Aldridge.

Well put. A lot of room for improvement despite a quality overall scoring efficiency.

@Shep. But Nash came into town and helped transform an organization. LMA's entering year 8 with the same team. I don't see them as equals.

WARRIORS@GR
12-16-2013, 10:06 PM
Pekovic, give the ball to a ****ing guard!

Course, I would never yell that with him near me..Wrong thread Hawk.

shep33
12-17-2013, 03:18 AM
Well put. A lot of room for improvement despite a quality overall scoring efficiency.

@Shep. But Nash came into town and helped transform an organization. LMA's entering year 8 with the same team. I don't see them as equals.

True man. But I'm looking at it from being the best player on your squad while also being atop the best conference in basketball.

Dirk won MVP with numbers of 24.6, 9 rpg and 3 apg

LMA is putting up 24 and 11 and I'd say he's a better defender than Dirk was at that stage of his career. Don't get me wrong Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LMA career-wise and it isn't close.

But if Portland has the top record out west, and say Miami finishes 2nd out East. I mean, in theory wouldn't we have to put him over LBJ considering that the West >>>>>>>>>> East?

Again, no way am I implying that LMA > LBJ.

I just think it depends on the formula that the voters use to identify the MVP. It seems to change over time

Paulou
12-17-2013, 08:39 AM
i like cp3.so cp3 will be the mvp

Chronz
12-17-2013, 12:30 PM
True man. But I'm looking at it from being the best player on your squad while also being atop the best conference in basketball.

Dirk won MVP with numbers of 24.6, 9 rpg and 3 apg

LMA is putting up 24 and 11 and I'd say he's a better defender than Dirk was at that stage of his career.


Don't get me wrong Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LMA career-wise and it isn't close.
Why just career wise? Dirk had better stats in the year he didn't win MVP and the year he did.



But if Portland has the top record out west, and say Miami finishes 2nd out East. I mean, in theory wouldn't we have to put him over LBJ considering that the West >>>>>>>>>> East?

Again, no way am I implying that LMA > LBJ.

I just think it depends on the formula that the voters use to identify the MVP. It seems to change over time
It depends more on people being bored of voting for Bron and finding some way to hate on Durant.

shep33
12-17-2013, 12:47 PM
Why just career wise? Dirk had better stats in the year he didn't win MVP and the year he did.


It depends more on people being bored of voting for Bron and finding some way to hate on Durant.


That's pretty much my point. It depends on how people vote, which seems to change when one person wins it a few times in a row.

Bottom line is LMA won't get it unless they win 70 games lol. LBJ, Durant, George and cp3 will be the top 4 when all is said and done

valade16
12-17-2013, 01:36 PM
True man. But I'm looking at it from being the best player on your squad while also being atop the best conference in basketball.

Dirk won MVP with numbers of 24.6, 9 rpg and 3 apg

LMA is putting up 24 and 11 and I'd say he's a better defender than Dirk was at that stage of his career. Don't get me wrong Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LMA career-wise and it isn't close.

But if Portland has the top record out west, and say Miami finishes 2nd out East. I mean, in theory wouldn't we have to put him over LBJ considering that the West >>>>>>>>>> East?

Again, no way am I implying that LMA > LBJ.

I just think it depends on the formula that the voters use to identify the MVP. It seems to change over time

If Miami finishes 2nd out East it will be to Indiana, at which point Paul George will have the "best player on the best team" argument locked up.

I don't for a second think LaMarcus Aldridge will win MVP, because as great as he is, and as valuable as he is to the Blazers (call me crazy, but based on fit, I think the Blazers would not have as many wins with LBJ instead of LMA), there are just a number of players who are flat out better players. As long as LBJ, Durant, and CP3 are in the league and healthy LMA doesn't really have a shot.

I just wanted to know how much incredible play and surprising the NBA would translate to people's thoughts on the MVP. Honestly, people are putting him a lot higher than I thought.

FlashBolt
12-17-2013, 02:31 PM
If Miami finishes 2nd out East it will be to Indiana, at which point Paul George will have the "best player on the best team" argument locked up.

I don't for a second think LaMarcus Aldridge will win MVP, because as great as he is, and as valuable as he is to the Blazers (call me crazy, but based on fit, I think the Blazers would not have as many wins with LBJ instead of LMA), there are just a number of players who are flat out better players. As long as LBJ, Durant, and CP3 are in the league and healthy LMA doesn't really have a shot.

I just wanted to know how much incredible play and surprising the NBA would translate to people's thoughts on the MVP. Honestly, people are putting him a lot higher than I thought.

Way to contradict yourself. Best player on the best team argument is the only thing that George has that can best LeBron. If LaMarcus gets that, why shouldn't he get the same argument? Can you read before you type nonsense? And there are instances where the best player on the best team didn't win MVP. It's not always a given.

ManRam
12-17-2013, 03:45 PM
Yeah. If you're hyping LMA or PG you sure as **** better be hyping the other one as well. Because the only chance they have is the "best player, best record" thing...because neither are true MVP caliber talents IMO.

George is in the midst of a little rough patch scoring, something that was inevitable. I still don't think he's the efficient scorer he's appeared to be to start this season. Up until last night the Pacers did fine despite that...which is a testament to their strengths as a complete team and their true #1 asset: their defense. It does feel like Derrick Rose...but they definitely need that 1 seed.


The gap between PG and Aldridge as individual players isn't as big as people are eager to make it out to be.

valade16
12-17-2013, 03:51 PM
Way to contradict yourself. Best player on the best team argument is the only thing that George has that can best LeBron. If LaMarcus gets that, why shouldn't he get the same argument? Can you read before you type nonsense? And there are instances where the best player on the best team didn't win MVP. It's not always a given.

How did I contradict myself? The guy said if Miami finishes 2nd in the east and Portland finishes 1st in the west wouldn’t we have to put LMA ahead of LBJ. Well if Miami finishes 2nd in the East that means the Pacers finish 1st, so Paul George would then have an argument for “best player on the best team”.

I’m honestly not even sure what you mean by “why shouldn't he get the same argument?”. Are you talking about Paul George? If so, that’s what I’m saying.

Also, I know that the best player on the best team doesn’t always win the award, but I was responding to a guy who said if the Blazers get a better record than the Heat shouldn’t LMA get it over LeBron because of being the best player on a better team. Well if that holds true for LMA, then it would hold true for Paul George, and thus LMA getting MVP wouldn’t be a given, as Paul George would have just as good a claim at that point.

It sounds like you came in here looking for an argument when you should’ve instead looked for clarification. Now you just sound argumentative and ridiculous. Take your ego to some other thread.

valade16
12-17-2013, 03:52 PM
Yeah. If you're hyping LMA or PG you sure as **** better be hyping the other one as well. Because the only chance they have is the "best player, best record" thing...because neither are true MVP caliber talents IMO.

George is in the midst of a little rough patch scoring, something that was inevitable. I still don't think he's the efficient scorer he's appeared to be to start this season. Up until last night the Pacers did fine despite that...which is a testament to their strengths as a complete team and their true #1 asset: their defense. It does feel like Derrick Rose...but they definitely need that 1 seed

That was all I was trying to say, but apparently I contradicted myself somewhere...

Jets012
12-17-2013, 06:06 PM
Can not figure out any valid argument to make a case for one of Aldridge or George over someone like James/Paul/Durant. That's easily the top 3 right now I have.

Call me crazy, if I had to pick one of them right now, I'd take Paul. Putting up remarkable stats once again, he's literally right there with Lebron and Durant in every advanced stat category. The way I see it right now, I got:

Paul/Durant>Lebron

Think those two are a little higher than Lebron right now. Right now, Durant's probably the favorite, but I still think Paul should win

krazylegz
12-17-2013, 06:43 PM
...

Chrisclover
12-18-2013, 07:58 AM
George may win a MVP ,considering the NBA always want some blockbuster news to attest to its slogan "where amazing happens".
yea ,just do it before David Stern retires

ManRam
12-18-2013, 12:31 PM
Can not figure out any valid argument to make a case for one of Aldridge or George over someone like James/Paul/Durant. That's easily the top 3 right now I have.

Call me crazy, if I had to pick one of them right now, I'd take Paul. Putting up remarkable stats once again, he's literally right there with Lebron and Durant in every advanced stat category. The way I see it right now, I got:

Paul/Durant>Lebron

Think those two are a little higher than Lebron right now. Right now, Durant's probably the favorite, but I still think Paul should win

No he's not. He's posting great stats, but LeBron and KD are still way in a league of their own.

Durant: 28.2 PER, .290 WS/48, 62.2 TS%, 19.7 PIE, 1.06 PPP (offense), 0.84 PPP (defense)
LeBron: 29.8 PER, .292 WS/48, 68.0 TS%, 21.5 PIE, 1.14 PPP (offense), 0.73 PPP (defense)
George: 23.1 PER, .235 WS/48, 59.0 TS%, 17.0 PIE, 1.02 PPP (offense), 0.77 PPP (defense)

The notion that PG has suddenly vaulted into their level is a bit confusing to me. But he's already starting to regress a little so I'm sure in time it will lessen. He's not there.


If we're looking for someone other than LeBron to win it, it should be KD. He's no less valuable to his team and is a superior player than PG for sure. PG has the "story", but I don't quite get why.

valade16
12-18-2013, 12:41 PM
No he's not. He's posting great stats, but LeBron and KD are still way in a league of their own.

Durant: 28.2 PER, .290 WS/48, 62.2 TS%, 19.7 PIE, 1.06 PPP (offense), 0.84 PPP (defense)
LeBron: 29.8 PER, .292 WS/48, 68.0 TS%, 21.5 PIE, 1.14 PPP (offense), 0.73 PPP (defense)
George: 23.1 PER, .235 WS/48, 59.0 TS%, 17.0 PIE, 1.02 PPP (offense), 0.77 PPP (defense)

The notion that PG has suddenly vaulted into their level is a bit confusing to me. But he's already starting to regress a little so I'm sure in time it will lessen. He's not there.


If we're looking for someone other than LeBron to win it, it should be KD. He's no less valuable to his team and is a superior player than PG for sure.

It would really be a shame if KD didn't win an MVP at least once in his career.

lionel
12-18-2013, 12:48 PM
demarcus cousins anyone!? surprised he hasnt got more recognition?? dude has thee best stats of all centers. he truly is the mvp as in he means by far the most to kings, than any other player on their teams.

ManRam
12-18-2013, 12:54 PM
demarcus cousins anyone!? surprised he hasnt got more recognition?? dude has thee best stats of all centers. he truly is the mvp as in he means by far the most to kings, than any other player on their teams.

MVPs don't come from losing teams, ever :shrug:

AllDay28
12-18-2013, 02:40 PM
LeBron
Durant
Paul

then you get George, and Love.

Lolol at love ...

AllDay28
12-18-2013, 02:44 PM
I also can't Beleive some people here think the wolves starting 5 is better than the blazers ... It's not even close when you have kmart , brewer and Rubio in a lineup ... Those 3 are under average players ( a case can be made for Rubio )

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 03:32 PM
I think what has LeBron playing in his favor for possible MVP is that there is no real true other MVP candidate on his team. Bosh is underperforming while Wade is taking games off.

You look at Portland and both Aldridge and Lilllard have been stellar.

You look at OKC and both Durant and Wesbrook have been stellar.

It's like those guys on their respective teams cancel each other out.

Then you have a guy like Paul George on the Pacers, who is playing with other all-stars in Roy Hibbert (my early pick for DPOY) and David West. Those guys can be all-stars, but it's clearly the case being that everything starts and ends with Paul George on that team.


If I had to have my picks right now: (1 and 2 can be interchangeable, I wouldn't mind if the Media award LeBron a 5th MVP).

1. Paul George
2. LeBron James
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Kevin Durant
5. Damian Lillard
6. Russell Westbrook

and maybe 7. Chris Paul, but man the Clippers better step it up if CP3 deserves any chance at that MVP Award.

Kushed
12-18-2013, 03:50 PM
Love is an interesting case. His statistcs are superior to Aldridge's however his team is 12-12. I know that there is only so much one player can affect a team, however the reason given for why the Timberwolves were not that good the last 2 seasons was because of injuries. The prevalent thought was once Love, Pekovic, and Rubio actually play together, they will have a good record.

Well not only have all of them played nearly every game, they added Kevin Martin to shore up their wing play, negating their biggest weakness... and yet here they are, at .500. It is important to note that many picked the Timberwolves to finish ahead of the Blazers and most said the Timberwolves were the more talented team.

Since you are a Wolves fan, what is going on or is it simply a matter of the Blazers being a better team?

The Timberwolves don't have Lillard, a Batum, a Mathews... people don't realize how good that Blazers team is constructed.

The Wolves have been hurt by Rubios underwhelming play and an awful bench. I expect the Wolves to still finish the season over .500 as the schedule eases up a bit and they find more ways to win but got damn there is only so much Kevin Love can do.

Put it this way, swap Love and Aldridge and this Wolves team has a worse record. People like to say Aldridge is the best PF in the game and he isn't. He just isn't.

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 03:57 PM
The Timberwolves don't have Lillard, a Batum, a Mathews... people don't realize how good that Blazers team is constructed.

The Wolves have been hurt by Rubios underwhelming play and an awful bench. I expect the Wolves to still finish the season over .500 as the schedule eases up a bit and they find more ways to win but got damn there is only so much Kevin Love can do.

Put it this way, swap Love and Aldridge and this Wolves team has a worse record. People like to say Aldridge is the best PF in the game and he isn't. He just isn't.

The Blazers had Lillard, Batum, Matthews and Aldridge last yr too but didn't make the playoffs. But this yr, they've added Lopez as their C and upgraded the bench, and with 1 yr under Stott's belt and with improved health and maturation, the Blazers are better because of it.

Kushed
12-18-2013, 04:16 PM
The Blazers had Lillard, Batum, Matthews and Aldridge last yr too but didn't make the playoffs. But this yr, they've added Lopez as their C and upgraded the bench, and with 1 yr under Stott's belt and with improved health and maturation, the Blazers are better because of it.

Exactly... So I'm missing your point? They have all grown as a group and added key players to their bench.. Meanwhile, the Wolves are playing with a bunch of guys who clearly don't have that chemistry yet and with a bench that is one of the worst in the league..

So I'll stand by my point.. You put Aldridge on the Wolves and they are a far worse team. Kevin Love is that good.

WARRIORS@GR
12-18-2013, 04:24 PM
.

WARRIORS@GR
12-18-2013, 04:25 PM
I also can't Beleive some people here think the wolves starting 5 is better than the blazers ... It's not even close when you have kmart , brewer and Rubio in a lineup ... Those 3 are under average players ( a case can be made for Rubio )Kevin Martin is not average,and he is better than Matthews.

tredigs
12-18-2013, 04:30 PM
I think what has LeBron playing in his favor for possible MVP is that there is no real true other MVP candidate on his team. Bosh is underperforming while Wade is taking games off.

You look at Portland and both Aldridge and Lilllard have been stellar.

You look at OKC and both Durant and Wesbrook have been stellar.

It's like those guys on their respective teams cancel each other out.

Then you have a guy like Paul George on the Pacers, who is playing with other all-stars in Roy Hibbert (my early pick for DPOY) and David West. Those guys can be all-stars, but it's clearly the case being that everything starts and ends with Paul George on that team.


If I had to have my picks right now: (1 and 2 can be interchangeable, I wouldn't mind if the Media award LeBron a 5th MVP).

1. Paul George
2. LeBron James
3. LaMarcus Aldridge
4. Kevin Durant
5. Damian Lillard
6. Russell Westbrook

and maybe 7. Chris Paul, but man the Clippers better step it up if CP3 deserves any chance at that MVP Award.

No, KD has been stellar. Westbrook has just been OK. Coming back from surgery it's probably his worst start to a season since year 2. And Wade has been very solid, definitely better than Russell:

Their stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2014&p2=westbru01&y2=2014

There just isn't a case for LA or PG over Durant, or LA over CP3 for that matter. The Clips schedule has been rough to start the year and they're still HCA, but on an individual basis Paul wipes the floor with Lemarcus.

Their stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2014&p2=aldrila01&y2=2014

That assist:TO ratio from CP3 doesn't even seem possible, and to top it off he's still rebounding at a solid rate for a point and getting you an ultra efficient 20ppg (FAR more efficiently than LMA's 24). WS/48, PER, Offensive Rating, WinsProduced, most any advanced stat you want to look at they aren't in the same ball park. Fact of the matter is that without these Lillard Buzzer beaters and OT wins from Portland we're not talking about LMA with guys like Lebron/Cp3/Durant.

1abc. Durant/Lebron/Cp3

valade16
12-18-2013, 04:47 PM
The Timberwolves don't have Lillard, a Batum, a Mathews... people don't realize how good that Blazers team is constructed.

The Wolves have been hurt by Rubios underwhelming play and an awful bench. I expect the Wolves to still finish the season over .500 as the schedule eases up a bit and they find more ways to win but got damn there is only so much Kevin Love can do.

Put it this way, swap Love and Aldridge and this Wolves team has a worse record. People like to say Aldridge is the best PF in the game and he isn't. He just isn't.

I'm now more aware of the atrocious product T-Wolves fans have to call a bench, so I think that does explain a lot of their problems.

But it's funny because if you swap Wolves with Blazers in the bolded sentence I absolutely believe the same. The Blazers would not be 22-4 if Love were on the team instead of Aldridge.

ManRam
12-18-2013, 05:01 PM
I think what has LeBron playing in his favor for possible MVP is that there is no real true other MVP candidate on his team. Bosh is underperforming while Wade is taking games off.

You look at Portland and both Aldridge and Lilllard have been stellar.

You look at OKC and both Durant and Wesbrook have been stellar.

It's like those guys on their respective teams cancel each other out.

Then you have a guy like Paul George on the Pacers, who is playing with other all-stars in Roy Hibbert (my early pick for DPOY) and David West. Those guys can be all-stars, but it's clearly the case being that everything starts and ends with Paul George on that team.

I've long had the problem that people value another good/great player more than an amazing defense, which climaxed during the Rose MVP argument year. You can say "everything starts and ends with George" or whatever, but I think everything starts and ends with that defense. It's the league's best. It's considerably better than the league's best defense of years' past. They're holding opponents to an absurd 44.7% eFG. Why do we focus so much on the individuals when comparing what players have around them and not just the sum of those pieces completely?

The Heat give up 6 more points per 100 possessions than the Pacers. That difference probably is greater than the difference between Bosh/Wade/etc. vs. Hibbert/West/etc. or whatever individual comparisons you want to make.

The Pacers' success as a team starts and ends with their defense. PG is probably their most important player, but let's not get it twisted why this team is so elite. He's just a year removed from being neither his team's best defender or offensive player, as well. It's a very well balanced team whose success shouldn't be surprising so many people. This year he's made the jump offensively, and his improvements, as well as the acquisition of Scola and the emergence of Stephenson have seen the Pacers playing slightly better offense than last year, but they're still a league average offensive team. And if we want to pretend that it all starts and ends with George, well, I think it would be more compelling of an argument if they were having more offensive success than they are :shrug:

tredigs
12-18-2013, 05:02 PM
I'm now more aware of the atrocious product T-Wolves fans have to call a bench, so I think that does explain a lot of their problems.

But it's funny because if you swap Wolves with Blazers in the bolded sentence I absolutely believe the same. The Blazers would not be 22-4 if Love were on the team instead of Aldridge.
Eh - they very well could be imo. Not if they replayed the season, though. All this late game magic isn't happening twice.

Jets012
12-18-2013, 05:13 PM
No he's not. He's posting great stats, but LeBron and KD are still way in a league of their own.

Durant: 28.2 PER, .290 WS/48, 62.2 TS%, 19.7 PIE, 1.06 PPP (offense), 0.84 PPP (defense)
LeBron: 29.8 PER, .292 WS/48, 68.0 TS%, 21.5 PIE, 1.14 PPP (offense), 0.73 PPP (defense)
George: 23.1 PER, .235 WS/48, 59.0 TS%, 17.0 PIE, 1.02 PPP (offense), 0.77 PPP (defense)

The notion that PG has suddenly vaulted into their level is a bit confusing to me. But he's already starting to regress a little so I'm sure in time it will lessen. He's not there.


If we're looking for someone other than LeBron to win it, it should be KD. He's no less valuable to his team and is a superior player than PG for sure. PG has the "story", but I don't quite get why.

I was talking about Chris Paul, not PG

WARRIORS@GR
12-18-2013, 05:18 PM
IMO,it's way too early to list MVP candidates based on team records.

1.Lebron


2.KD
3.Cp3

4.Love
5.Curry
6.Aldridge
7.PG


4-7 can be interchangable,based on what you value more.

ManRam
12-18-2013, 05:21 PM
I was talking about Chris Paul, not PG


:laugh:

My bad! I'm just on such a "CHILL OUT WITH PG" campaign right now that I misread.

My point stands...though it's irrelevant to yours.

Jets012
12-18-2013, 05:38 PM
:laugh:

My bad! I'm just on such a "CHILL OUT WITH PG" campaign right now that I misread.

My point stands...though it's irrelevant to yours.

Yea, I hear ya. People got to stop with overrating him. Just a tendency for people to do when they see a team doing so well. They automatically assume that the best player is winning all the games from them (LMA/PG).

Bruno
12-18-2013, 06:06 PM
Durant-Aldridge-PG-James-Paul.

valade16
12-18-2013, 06:30 PM
Eh - they very well could be imo. Not if they replayed the season, though. All this late game magic isn't happening twice.

They have 2 game winners for them and they lost on one game winner vs Dallas. So it's 2-1, that is in their favor but hardly statistically relevant.

Also, people always seem to correlate winning close games as a completely random event. It is not. Good teams win close games more often than bad teams. The ability to win close games should be attributed, at least in part (i.e. to a level concurrent with general statistical trends of good teams winning X % of close games) on the Blazers talent and ability, and not just blind luck.

Additionally, their SRS is 3rd in the league, their Off Rtg is 1st in the league and their expected record (19-7) would still be good enough for 5th best in the league. Also, the Thunder's expected record is 17-7, the Pacers is 18-6, the Heats is 18-6, so all of those teams seem to be "lucking out" to nearly the same degree as Portland, so it is unfair to use that measurement for Portland alone.

People are running out of reasons why Portland isn't an elite team this season.

WARRIORS@GR
12-18-2013, 06:33 PM
Durant-Aldridge-PG-James-Paul.#thelebronhatecanmakemelooklikeanidiot

AllDay28
12-18-2013, 09:48 PM
The Blazers had Lillard, Batum, Matthews and Aldridge last yr too but didn't make the playoffs. But this yr, they've added Lopez as their C and upgraded the bench, and with 1 yr under Stott's belt and with improved health and maturation, the Blazers are better because of it.

Exactly... So I'm missing your point? They have all grown as a group and added key players to their bench.. Meanwhile, the Wolves are playing with a bunch of guys who clearly don't have that chemistry yet and with a bench that is one of the worst in the league..

So I'll stand by my point.. You put Aldridge on the Wolves and they are a far worse team. Kevin Love is that good.

Just no ... Kevin love makes the blazers a worse team over Aldridge ... Aldridge is the best PF in the game and has carried a good amount of that teams workload

Red_Pill
12-19-2013, 12:10 AM
People are running out of reasons why Portland isn't an elite team this season.

I can give you one. The most important. They rely far too heavily on jump shots. As evidenced by their loss tonight(and most notably, the first half), when the 3 isn't dropping, they can't score. If they want to be truly elite, they need to figure out a new way to score, because jump shots will not always fall.

Red_Pill
12-19-2013, 12:13 AM
Just no ... Kevin love makes the blazers a worse team over Aldridge ... Aldridge is the best PF in the game and has carried a good amount of that teams workload

Blake Griffin is better than LMA. Kevin Love is better than Blake Griffin. You see where I'm going with this? LMA is an all-star, but he isn't the best power forward. Not even second.

WARRIORS@GR
12-19-2013, 12:37 AM
Just no ... Kevin love makes the blazers a worse team over Aldridge ... Aldridge is the best PF in the game and has carried a good amount of that teams workloadNot even close.

koreancabbage
12-19-2013, 12:42 AM
Yea, I hear ya. People got to stop with overrating him. Just a tendency for people to do when they see a team doing so well. They automatically assume that the best player is winning all the games from them (LMA/PG).

exactly.

Matthews shooting over 50% as a SG?

Indiana has a fully rounded team. better than than the Heat. Its well balanced and they have the traditional pieces of a winning team. But seriously though I'm still on the argument West and Hibbert are just as important to the Pacers as PG is. That interior defense/ offense is one of the best 4/5s out there. but b/c of the best player on best team --> right now PG.

koreancabbage
12-19-2013, 12:43 AM
Just no ... Kevin love makes the blazers a worse team over Aldridge ... Aldridge is the best PF in the game and has carried a good amount of that teams workload

LOL NO. I don't even think you can get an NBA analyst or anyone with real basketball knowledge would say that.

if you want to say LMA does a lot of the workload - Kevin Love must be Jesus himself.

AllDay28
12-19-2013, 02:18 AM
Just no ... Kevin love makes the blazers a worse team over Aldridge ... Aldridge is the best PF in the game and has carried a good amount of that teams workload

Blake Griffin is better than LMA. Kevin Love is better than Blake Griffin. You see where I'm going with this? LMA is an all-star, but he isn't the best power forward. Not even second.

Lmao blame griffin is the most overrated pf in the league... I'm not even gonna argue on that

FlashBolt
12-19-2013, 04:08 AM
I agree. To this point, KD and LJ are completely ahead of everyone. Maybe CP3 but I don't see him outplaying james/kd for an entire season

Hawkeye15
12-19-2013, 04:13 AM
Just no ... Kevin love makes the blazers a worse team over Aldridge ... Aldridge is the best PF in the game and has carried a good amount of that teams workload

give Love Lillard over Rubio, and the Wolves are the ones leading the west. Love's numbers take a dump on LMA's, seriously.

jerellh528
12-19-2013, 04:46 AM
give Love Lillard over Rubio, and the Wolves are the ones leading the west. Love's numbers take a dump on LMA's, seriously.

I highly doubt that. You're saying based on love's numbers wolves would be #1 in the west with lillard over Rubio? I can see maybe 4th or 5th but I can't bring myself to say lillard accounts for a 10 game swing from wolves at 10 to #1

Hawkeye15
12-19-2013, 04:54 AM
I highly doubt that. You're saying based on love's numbers wolves would be #1 in the west with lillard over Rubio? I can see maybe 4th or 5th but I can't bring myself to say lillard accounts for a 10 game swing from wolves at 10 to #1

Rubio has been awful. Lillard's floor stretching ability would crush it in Adelmans offense. Maybe I should back off the leading the west, but the Wolves, who seemingly can only win games if they win by 20, would have won a nice portion of their close games, and be more like 18-8 with Lillard over Rubio.

And Love is better than LMA. His numbers take a dump on LMA's. Without Love, the Wolves are looking at a 7-19 record at this point most likely. Yes, he IS worth 6-7 wins so far.

Hawkeye15
12-19-2013, 04:55 AM
the Wolves expected record per stats is now 16-10. Blazers 19-8. Not that far fetched to think Lillard over Rubio makes the Wolves a 19-20 win team right now.

JordansBulls
12-19-2013, 12:07 PM
With the Blazers and Pacers losing yesterday OKC now has the best record in the league. That certainly along with the scoring title would push Durant for MVP.

mjm07
12-19-2013, 12:13 PM
With the Blazers and Pacers losing yesterday OKC now has the best record in the league. That certainly along with the scoring title would push Durant for MVP.

IF OKC has the best record in the league along with a scoring title from Durant, by year end, it could definitely swing the MVP towards Durant direction. He would certaintly deserve it. Either way, LBJ would be/still is the best player in the league.

mjm07
12-19-2013, 12:17 PM
Rubio has been awful. Lillard's floor stretching ability would crush it in Adelmans offense. Maybe I should back off the leading the west, but the Wolves, who seemingly can only win games if they win by 20, would have won a nice portion of their close games, and be more like 18-8 with Lillard over Rubio.

And Love is better than LMA. His numbers take a dump on LMA's. Without Love, the Wolves are looking at a 7-19 record at this point most likely. Yes, he IS worth 6-7 wins so far.

I would certaintly rank Love over LMA as a player. You have to give LMA credit for how he has elevated his game this yr. Yes he has an all star PG in Lillard as opposed to Rubio but the gap between the two(Love vs LMA), at least in my eyes, has decreased. Love will always be the better player though.

xnick5757
12-19-2013, 12:20 PM
1.) LeBron










everyone else

naps
12-19-2013, 02:04 PM
This votes will eventually be distributed between LeBron and Durant when all the dusts are settled, as it should be. I love "stories" but hate when they get rewarded something they don't really deserve. It's safer to say this award is LeBron's and Durant is the only realistic option to take it from him.

JEDean89
12-19-2013, 03:49 PM
God Love will never be close to leading the league in MVP, he has never even sniffed the playoffs, he plays suspect defense and can't protect the rim. His offense and rebounding is top notch, the best offense and rebounding combo in the game but LMA is a leader, a better defender and his team is 22-5, Love's is 13-13. Love plays next to the better SG and C, LMA plays next to the way better PG and SF. I kind of laugh at Minnesota, because, as a Knicks fan, I can sympathize with the amount of talent they've let slip through their fingers. To take Flynn and Rubio and then trade Ty Lawson for a late future round pick when Steph Curry was on the table was unbelievable. Love is gonna bounce hard from Minny.

Right now It's Lebron, Durant, George, Cp3 and I have a feeling if OKC finishes best in the league he wins it and George gets DPOY.

Red_Pill
12-19-2013, 04:18 PM
I would certaintly rank Love over LMA as a player. You have to give LMA credit for how he has elevated his game this yr. Yes he has an all star PG in Lillard as opposed to Rubio but the gap between the two(Love vs LMA), at least in my eyes, has decreased. Love will always be the better player though.

No, the gap is the same. LMA may have elevated his game, but so has Love. Especially his passing ability, and the last few games, he's started playing some solid D, which I've never seen from him before.

tredigs
12-19-2013, 04:24 PM
1.) LeBron










everyone else

I see what you did there - The space means it's EXTRA DOMINANT!

In reality, it's insanely tight. OKC has the best record in the NBA and KD is putting up 29/8/5 on a 62% TS with a #2 that has been less effective than Wade.

I don't see the way I had it before changing in my eyes any time too soon with the way these players/teams are looking.

1a/b/c: KD/Lebron/Cp3

4: PG

mightybosstone
12-19-2013, 04:46 PM
With the Blazers and Pacers losing yesterday OKC now has the best record in the league. That certainly along with the scoring title would push Durant for MVP.

IF OKC has the best record in the league along with a scoring title from Durant, by year end, it could definitely swing the MVP towards Durant direction. He would certaintly deserve it. Either way, LBJ would be/still is the best player in the league.

I think both of these statements are true. Lebron is unquestionably the best player in the league, but if Durant wins the scoring title and OKC has the league's best record by the end of the season, Durant will win MVP. The problem is that voters get bored of voting for the same guy and if there's a relatively close second, they'll pick that guy just to mix it up.

For Lebron to win it again this year, he can't just be statistically dominant. I think he's got to be this statistically dominant AND the Heat have to have damn near the best record in the league. Or he could win it if his numbers are just so ridiculous that voters can't ignore it. I wouldn't rule this out at this point, but my guess right now will be that voters will pick Durant, with Lebron a close second and Paul and George having an outside shot. LMA could give them a run for their money if Portland remains a contender, but he's clearly a stop down from those four guys production-wise.

IKnowHoops
12-19-2013, 11:08 PM
I think both of these statements are true. Lebron is unquestionably the best player in the league, but if Durant wins the scoring title and OKC has the league's best record by the end of the season, Durant will win MVP. The problem is that voters get bored of voting for the same guy and if there's a relatively close second, they'll pick that guy just to mix it up.

For Lebron to win it again this year, he can't just be statistically dominant. I think he's got to be this statistically dominant AND the Heat have to have damn near the best record in the league. Or he could win it if his numbers are just so ridiculous that voters can't ignore it. I wouldn't rule this out at this point, but my guess right now will be that voters will pick Durant, with Lebron a close second and Paul and George having an outside shot. LMA could give them a run for their money if Portland remains a contender, but he's clearly a stop down from those four guys production-wise.

It wouldn't surprise me if this happened although to me the more likely senario is that Lebron finishes the year very strong as he always does and makes it impossible for the voters not to vote him as the MVP. I think if win totals are within 1-3 either way it won't really matter enough. I think the statistical performances that are yet to come from Lebron will push him over the top.

mightybosstone
12-20-2013, 12:36 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if this happened although to me the more likely senario is that Lebron finishes the year very strong as he always does and makes it impossible for the voters not to vote him as the MVP. I think if win totals are within 1-3 either way it won't really matter enough. I think the statistical performances that are yet to come from Lebron will push him over the top.

Another thing to consider is head-to-head matchups. Every time Lebron and Durant go head-to-head, it feels like the outcome of those games have an impact on the ongoing MVP discussion. If the numbers are close and the records are close, the guy who wins it very well could be the guy who came out on top in head-to-head matchups.

FlashBolt
12-20-2013, 03:00 PM
I'm sorry but voters are not going to ignore James. Their record isn't much far off from being the best but it's the fact that James is playing a career low in minutes while putting up arguably the most efficient season in his career. I seriously didn't think he would be better than last year. The man not only increased his fg%... He increased it by .04.... It's insane. How does one go from 56 to 60 and still be this dominant on both floors? Dude started at 42% and has increased his fg% each and every year. While Durant has a chance to grab it, I don't think he was better than he was last year and the fact that James has gotten better. The record might have something to do with it but in my honest opinion, I don't think their records will be that far off from each other.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 08:01 PM
I'm sorry but voters are not going to ignore James. Their record isn't much far off from being the best but it's the fact that James is playing a career low in minutes while putting up arguably the most efficient season in his career. I seriously didn't think he would be better than last year. The man not only increased his fg%... He increased it by .04.... It's insane. How does one go from 56 to 60 and still be this dominant on both floors? Dude started at 42% and has increased his fg% each and every year. While Durant has a chance to grab it, I don't think he was better than he was last year and the fact that James has gotten better. The record might have something to do with it but in my honest opinion, I don't think their records will be that far off from each other.

the media gets bored with the same old thing. Obviously James is clearly the best player in the game, no argument. But if OKC wins the west, Durant has a great shot at it.

jerellh528
12-20-2013, 08:20 PM
I'm sorry but voters are not going to ignore James. Their record isn't much far off from being the best but it's the fact that James is playing a career low in minutes while putting up arguably the most efficient season in his career. I seriously didn't think he would be better than last year. The man not only increased his fg%... He increased it by .04.... It's insane. How does one go from 56 to 60 and still be this dominant on both floors? Dude started at 42% and has increased his fg% each and every year. While Durant has a chance to grab it, I don't think he was better than he was last year and the fact that James has gotten better. The record might have something to do with it but in my honest opinion, I don't think their records will be that far off from each other.

How is playing low minutes being seen as a good thing? You can't make an MVP argument using a career low in minutes as your focal point. Also adding his increased efficiency? No duh, on average if you're a great player, the lower your mins, the higher your efficiency, it's not rocket science. Fatigue lowers efficiency. No doubt Lebron is the NBA's best player, but you're argument seems a bit flawed to me as far as MVP goes.

P&GRealist
12-20-2013, 08:39 PM
Most Valuable and Best Player are 2 totally different things.

Was Steve Nash the best player in the World in 04-05 and 05-06? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Dirk Nowitzki the best player in the World in 06-07? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Derrick Rose the best player in the World in 10-11? No, it was Dirk Nowitzki

Best player and MVP are not synonymous guys.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2013, 09:07 PM
Most Valuable and Best Player are 2 totally different things.

Was Steve Nash the best player in the World in 04-05 and 05-06? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Dirk Nowitzki the best player in the World in 06-07? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Derrick Rose the best player in the World in 10-11? No, it was Dirk Nowitzki

Best player and MVP are not synonymous guys.

I agree with your point, but not the 3 players you listed as best that year.

FlashBolt
12-20-2013, 09:56 PM
LeBron proving again why he's far and away the best player and MVP.

16 pts
7/8
7reb
6ast

amazing. Never fails to amaze me.

FlashBolt
12-20-2013, 09:57 PM
Most Valuable and Best Player are 2 totally different things.

Was Steve Nash the best player in the World in 04-05 and 05-06? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Dirk Nowitzki the best player in the World in 06-07? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Derrick Rose the best player in the World in 10-11? No, it was Dirk Nowitzki

Best player and MVP are not synonymous guys.

Realistically, how was Kobe in 2006 better than LeBron? LeBron IMO has been the best player since his third year.

Chrisclover
12-21-2013, 03:41 AM
LMA and PG are 2 huge surprises this year and LMA is definitely the bigger one. Um. ... runner up ,i suppose, would be more realistic for either one. But I slightly lean towards LMA considering not a single mass media had ever predicted this blazers 'record, so hadnt Vegas, whose business is famous for predicting the wins and loses.
At least for the time being, I root for LMA. Lets just wait and see how far they can go

Chrisclover
12-21-2013, 03:50 AM
But Wolves 'record is too lame to support Love, who is more all -rounded than LMA .
LeBron
Durant
Paul

then you get George, and Love.

Im_in_Mia_bish
12-21-2013, 06:41 AM
Def between durant and bron.

1. Durant
2. Bron

JordansBulls
12-21-2013, 03:16 PM
I think both of these statements are true. Lebron is unquestionably the best player in the league, but if Durant wins the scoring title and OKC has the league's best record by the end of the season, Durant will win MVP. The problem is that voters get bored of voting for the same guy and if there's a relatively close second, they'll pick that guy just to mix it up.

For Lebron to win it again this year, he can't just be statistically dominant. I think he's got to be this statistically dominant AND the Heat have to have damn near the best record in the league. Or he could win it if his numbers are just so ridiculous that voters can't ignore it. I wouldn't rule this out at this point, but my guess right now will be that voters will pick Durant, with Lebron a close second and Paul and George having an outside shot. LMA could give them a run for their money if Portland remains a contender, but he's clearly a stop down from those four guys production-wise.

Yeah realistically in 2012 is the year you could have given it to Durant with OKC having the better record.

IKnowHoops
12-21-2013, 06:51 PM
most valuable and best player are 2 totally different things.

Was steve nash the best player in the world in 04-05 and 05-06? No, it was kobe bryant

was dirk nowitzki the best player in the world in 06-07? No, it was kobe bryant

was derrick rose the best player in the world in 10-11? No, it was dirk nowitzki

best player and mvp are not synonymous guys.

lol

Im_in_Mia_bish
12-23-2013, 09:36 AM
All the top teams Separated by a game..

valade16
12-23-2013, 05:36 PM
Most Valuable and Best Player are 2 totally different things.

Was Steve Nash the best player in the World in 04-05 and 05-06? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Dirk Nowitzki the best player in the World in 06-07? No, it was Kobe Bryant

Was Derrick Rose the best player in the World in 10-11? No, it was Dirk Nowitzki

Best player and MVP are not synonymous guys.


I agree with your point, but not the 3 players you listed as best that year.


Realistically, how was Kobe in 2006 better than LeBron? LeBron IMO has been the best player since his third year.

I'm blown away that the first one you choose to contend was the 2006 pick. If LeBron was better than Kobe in 2006 he sure as **** was better than Dirk in 10-11...

FlashBolt
12-23-2013, 08:37 PM
Dude, just because Dirk played better in the finals doesn't mean he is the better player. Huge difference..

naps
12-24-2013, 12:23 AM
LeBron with a solid MVP performance tonight. Took over the game when they were down by 6 few mins left in the game. It went to OT and Miami came out victorious.

On a side note, I didn't realize Atlanta has become such a team. Didn't get to watch them this year much but damn this team really plays like the spurs under their coach who was a long time assistant of Pop. Getting rid of Josh the Chucker Smith helped a ton too.

FlashBolt
12-24-2013, 12:39 AM
LeBron with a solid MVP performance tonight. Took over the game when they were down by 6 few mins left in the game. It went to OT and Miami came out victorious.

On a side note, I didn't realize Atlanta has become such a team. Didn't get to watch them this year much but damn this team really plays like the spurs under their coach who was a long time assistant of Pop. Getting rid of Josh the Chucker Smith helped a ton too.

Solid? It was spectacular. Chalmers almost lost the game for them but James took over. He only missed like what? 1 shot in the fourth out of 6? Dude threw down two threes and had another dunk of the year dunks. Great play(s) from LEBron. Thought they were going to lose but he pulled through. Didn't like that last pass to Beasley but hey, he was open.

tredigs
12-24-2013, 02:18 AM
Switch KD and Lebron for me now (lebron to 1). Other than not trying full bore every night, he truly is at "best ever?" level at any point right now. Tonight's game was a big +, and Westbrook has outplayed KD the past few games.

tredigs
12-24-2013, 02:23 AM
Lebron's TS% is 68% right now btw. I don't think that's ever been sniffed at 25+ ppg. It's... insane. KD at 62% TS on 28 ppg over the past few years is pretty ridiculous also (>Jordan). These dudes are really figuring out how to be the best scorers possible.

Chronz
12-24-2013, 04:45 AM
Lebron's TS% is 68% right now btw. I don't think that's ever been sniffed at 25+ ppg. It's... insane. KD at 62% TS on 28 ppg over the past few years is pretty ridiculous also (>Jordan). These dudes are really figuring out how to be the best scorers possible.

If it wasn't for the massive hike in his turnovers, it would be his most efficient season. Drop off in assists+oreb% has hurt too. effen bum

JordansBulls
12-24-2013, 11:42 AM
Lebron's TS% is 68% right now btw. I don't think that's ever been sniffed at 25+ ppg. It's... insane. KD at 62% TS on 28 ppg over the past few years is pretty ridiculous also (>Jordan). These dudes are really figuring out how to be the best scorers possible.

That's true, but how many guys have averaged 31 ppg or more on 60% TS. The more you score, the harder to maintain the efficiency especially when your team needs the scoring. What helps now is that in the East there aren't many stars around right now and the lack of bigs. Can't fault him for that though, but totally a different beast when you got a plethora of bigs who can not only score but rebound and defend in the league as well.

FraziersKnicks
12-24-2013, 07:03 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Paul George
5. LaMarcus Aldridge

Im_in_Mia_bish
12-24-2013, 09:03 PM
glad to see bron playin well.

FraziersKnicks
12-24-2013, 09:33 PM
glad to see bron playin well.

Your sig is mesmerizing

tredigs
12-25-2013, 12:05 AM
That's true, but how many guys have averaged 31 ppg or more on 60% TS. The more you score, the harder to maintain the efficiency especially when your team needs the scoring. What helps now is that in the East there aren't many stars around right now and the lack of bigs. Can't fault him for that though, but totally a different beast when you got a plethora of bigs who can not only score but rebound and defend in the league as well.
Eh to an extent, but team defense as a whole is improved now than it was in the 80's and 90's. I'd say it's about a wash. And for sure it's harder to keep a TS of 60+ on 30ppg, but if you're at 68% TS on 25 PPG, it's obvious he could easily over 60% on 30+. Even if he took 6 more attempts a game and only averaged 50% TS on them (not including FT's), he'd easily be there. KD at 64% TS on 28ppg last year proved he could do it also.

koreancabbage
12-25-2013, 01:16 AM
glad to see bron playin well.

thats a nice sig man. except when there are the three Lebrons under the paint. gets a little cut off lol

tredigs
12-25-2013, 04:58 AM
Thing is the media has no story to latch on to and sway opinion right now. They need Lebron to rattle off 5 straight triple doubles or KD to put up 30+ in 20 straight games to give them some juice. Sad but true. As of now it's up for the story-takers grabs.

Hawkeye15
12-25-2013, 06:08 AM
I'm blown away that the first one you choose to contend was the 2006 pick. If LeBron was better than Kobe in 2006 he sure as **** was better than Dirk in 10-11...


Was Steve Nash the best player in the World in 04-05 and 05-06? No, it was Kobe Bryant

KG in 05-06, Dirk and Bron were better than Kobe.


Was Dirk Nowitzki the best player in the World in 06-07?

No, Dirk was the best player on the planet that year.


Was Derrick Rose the best player in the World in 10-11?

LeBron was the best player on the planet.

mngopher35
12-25-2013, 09:41 AM
Thing is the media has no story to latch on to and sway opinion right now. They need Lebron to rattle off 5 straight triple doubles or KD to put up 30+ in 20 straight games to give them some juice. Sad but true. As of now it's up for the story-takers grabs.

agreed. I have had Lebron and KD basically tied for a while. Whoever has the best late stretch/story likely wins if it stays close.

Nick O
12-25-2013, 07:55 PM
Chris Bosh soley because hes playing well tonight and his wife is hot.

Minimal
12-26-2013, 02:30 PM
I believe its a draw between Durant and Bron at this point.

NYJ - NYY
12-27-2013, 09:19 PM
Klove gotta be considered

FraziersKnicks
12-27-2013, 10:07 PM
The big question now is the impact Westbrook's injury has on KD's chance?

KD will up his scoring but his efficiency will inevitably drop slightly as defenses can focus on him more. The Thunder's record will also be affected by the injury and we all know how important that will be at the end of the season in determining MVP.

As of now, still got LeBron ahead of him with CP3 3rd.

koreancabbage
12-28-2013, 12:46 PM
Klove gotta be considered

he's probably somewhere in 3-5 area during the season. but he has to get his team into the top 4 if he has any chance to win one.

EL_MACHETE
12-29-2013, 12:31 AM
KD for MVP

Nick O
12-29-2013, 01:58 AM
boshhhhh

Kushed
12-29-2013, 03:36 AM
LeBron over everything

RLundi
12-29-2013, 09:09 AM
Bosh shouldn't get consideration for MVP but I think it's prudent for everyone (myself included) to start regarding him as a top 15 player again. Just because he sacrifices for the team's sake doesn't mean he isn't in possession of elite talent.

I think last night has shown what Bosh can still do if he's unleashed. It's so easy to disregard him or solely focus on LeBron and Wade but Bosh is still one of the best plasters in the league. Last night was a slight "don't forget about me now, guys."

I hope he leaves the Heat or Wade takes more of a backseat moving forward so Bosh can be a 22-10-3 player again.

SugeKnight
12-29-2013, 10:10 PM
Curry comin thru in the clutch once again. 4th best player in the league IMO

RocketLoc80
12-29-2013, 10:17 PM
Curry comin thru in the clutch once again. 4th best player in the league IMO

Whos your top 5?

SugeKnight
12-30-2013, 03:18 AM
Whos your top 5?

Bron
KD
CP3
Curry
George

Nick O
12-31-2013, 01:12 AM
Bosh shouldn't get consideration for MVP but I think it's prudent for everyone (myself included) to start regarding him as a top 15 player again. Just because he sacrifices for the team's sake doesn't mean he isn't in possession of elite talent.

I think last night has shown what Bosh can still do if he's unleashed. It's so easy to disregard him or solely focus on LeBron and Wade but Bosh is still one of the best plasters in the league. Last night was a slight "don't forget about me now, guys."

I hope he leaves the Heat or Wade takes more of a backseat moving forward so Bosh can be a 22-10-3 player again.

lol i was kidding. hes just had a string of awesome games and i love his game.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-03-2014, 12:40 AM
Such a meh game by both kd n bron

koreancabbage
01-03-2014, 12:52 AM
man, Cousins looks so frustrated losing to Philly lol

4 fouls on him.

Kushed
01-04-2014, 02:27 PM
LeBron
KD
Love

My top three.

tredigs
01-04-2014, 08:38 PM
I fully realize that I have probably reached homer status with Steph, but the kid may be MVP if GSW pulls in a 3 seed or higher. I have him #3 as is. Like the dude, but love as third with them still not a playoff team is a pipe dream.

naps
01-04-2014, 09:17 PM
I don't know if a top 3 conference seed will be enough for Curry unless he goes on a statistical tear for the reminder of the season to get his averages to a greater level but I agree Curry might be a very strong candidate with the way he and his team are playing now.

And I love what Kevin Love is doing but no way he will in the final discussion unless he brings his team to near the top of western conference or secure HC by the end of the season.

Seems like people have slowed down on that Paul George drink. Like his game a lot but his stats are just not there to be considered a MVP as of now. As he has fallen off a bit from his early season dominance lately.

CP3's chances are getting lower and now he will be out for a few weeks.

It's safe to say it's between LeBron and Durant for now.

tredigs
01-04-2014, 09:28 PM
H8tur

tredigs
01-04-2014, 09:29 PM
But, yeah. Agreed.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-04-2014, 10:42 PM
Second straight game where top 2 MVP candidates playing like ****.

tredigs
01-04-2014, 11:03 PM
Second straight game where top 2 MVP candidates playing like ****.

KD has 35/5/6 on 70%TS with 0 turnovers with 7 minutes to go in a tough road game btw. This kid is high and/or a homer.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-04-2014, 11:12 PM
KD has 35/5/6 on 70%TS with 0 turnovers with 7 minutes to go in a tough road game btw. This kid is high and/or a homer.

Spoke way too soon.
Wrote this when he was shooting 33%.

He def picked it up.

tredigs
01-04-2014, 11:20 PM
Spoke way too soon.
Wrote this when he was shooting 33%.

He def picked it up.

Haha I know, I was just giving you ****. You're a good poster. If he wins this game... Wow.

44/5/7 on 75%ts right now. 2 minute drill...

tredigs
01-04-2014, 11:40 PM
KD just entered first in the MVP race and Love just left it entirely. unbelievable game.

poleandreel
01-04-2014, 11:47 PM
KD is such an *******.

0 pts in 4th quarter against Blazers and 18 pt blown lead
3 pts in 4th q against Nets and 17 pt blown lead

21 pts in 4th tonight and sick comeback from down 13...

Why didn't you do something against portland? ****

ChiSox219
01-04-2014, 11:54 PM
KD is such an *******.

0 pts in 4th quarter against Blazers and 18 pt blown lead
3 pts in 4th q against Nets and 17 pt blown lead

21 pts in 4th tonight and sick comeback from down 13...

Why didn't you do something against portland? ****

Portland trapped him on every possession and Brooks just kept trying to run him off screens making the traps even more effective...

poleandreel
01-05-2014, 12:02 AM
Portland trapped him on every possession and Brooks just kept trying to run him off screens making the traps even more effective...

Yes, but you're KD. A top 2 player. Arguably the best/most complete scorer since Jordan. You don't get shutout in the 4th after scoring 37 through 3 quarters.

And against the Nets he had 5 turnovers, 3 in the 4th. He struggles whenever teams get physical or trap him. Great players have to learn how to fight through double teams.

I've been watching it every game. That's why Russy is so important. Can't double when that guy is on the court. If you do, Russ 100% will get a layup

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-05-2014, 12:12 AM
Kd with a phenomenal game!

jerellh528
01-05-2014, 07:08 AM
KD has surpassed PG imo for MVP, He's even outplaying lebron this year and is barely hitting his prime, meanwhile lebron is 30 next year. I think this is the season bron passes the torch to KD. KD's impact is far greater than anyone else in the league right now.

IKnowHoops
01-05-2014, 08:03 AM
KD has surpassed PG imo for MVP, He's even outplaying lebron this year and is barely hitting his prime, meanwhile lebron is 30 next year. I think this is the season bron passes the torch to KD. KD's impact is far greater than anyone else in the league right now.

Since Bosh's game winner, Bron has played the worst basketball that I have seen from him since the Dallas series.

stawka
01-05-2014, 08:15 AM
He's hurt dude. I wish Bron would take a few games off. Let the losses pile up, they're not getting HCA this year either way IMO

IKnowHoops
01-05-2014, 05:03 PM
He's hurt dude. I wish Bron would take a few games off. Let the losses pile up, they're not getting HCA this year either way IMO

I thought he was, and I agree with you. I would never hold a few bad games against him because everyone else including KD has about 5x as many bad games in the past year as Bron. He literally never has a bad game. That is why it is so surprising. I still have him in the MVP lead despite a great game by KD. I expect Lebron to separate himself from the rest of the league. KD and Bron are neck and neck right now IMO.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-05-2014, 10:18 PM
Top 2 MVP candidates put on a display today.

Kd- 21/7/8 in 27 mins
Lbj- 30/4/5 (12/18 FG)

Both teams win (well OKC is up 20 with 3 mins left)

naps
01-06-2014, 01:11 AM
LeBron has clearly not being himself since that Kings game where he hurt his groin. KD is definitely my #1 at this point. I have a feeling LeBron will go carefully to take care of his groin next one month and really turn it up after the all-star break.

ManRam
01-07-2014, 02:04 PM
KD should be everyone's #1. Stop with the PG and LMA stuff. It's KD's, unless Bron goes NOVA again.

bucketss
01-07-2014, 05:10 PM
KD has surpassed PG imo for MVP, He's even outplaying lebron this year and is barely hitting his prime, meanwhile lebron is 30 next year. I think this is the season bron passes the torch to KD. KD's impact is far greater than anyone else in the league right now.

lebron almost 30 and he aint slowing down, Lol i thought you guys said he will start slowing down around this age because he has no skill.....

bucketss
01-07-2014, 05:12 PM
time flys lebron is 29 damn,

SteBO
01-07-2014, 05:30 PM
KD should be everyone's #1. Stop with the PG and LMA stuff. It's KD's, unless Bron goes NOVA again.
My thoughts exactly. Dude's been playing out of his mind lately....

Hawkeye15
01-07-2014, 06:59 PM
LeBron is coasting for whatever reason. Maybe 3 full post seasons make him understand the season is a marathon. Maybe his back is bugging him. But he seems content with being dominant when he needs to, and just winning right now. I would expect playoff LeBron blows every other player out of the water again, but Durant is having the better season right now, when you factor in he is playing out west, great record, much of it will be without the help of Westbrook for the next couple months.

tredigs
01-07-2014, 07:48 PM
I don't know - I'm not sure I'm sold that Lebron blew KD out of the water last season or in last seasons playoffs. We saw a slight dip in KD's #'s when he had to play a series getting trapped against a top 2 defense without anything resembling a capable #2. But even at this point last year most had Durant as the MVP. That 27 game win streak tho...

I just think KD caught up and it's a true 1a/1b situation - with Lebron as 1b right now. Let's not forget that it was only 2.5 years ago that we all expected Lebron to go nova in the finals as clear favorites against Dallas... and that kind of blew up peoples faces. He's not superman.

koreancabbage
01-08-2014, 12:09 AM
After watching PG play the Raptors, PG isn't even the MVP if his team. its Hibbert. anchors that defense with blocking and altering shots like crazy. Definitely the best center in the East or a tie with Noah.

Is it me or does PG really benefit from playing with two top 10 big men at their positions really open up the 3 point line for him.

ManRam
01-08-2014, 12:24 AM
Every loss without Russy is going to be nitpicked against KD. 6-3 so far without him is pretty darn good though. But losses against Utah, even if he drops 50 (which he might) surely will be used as ammo against him, fair or not. It's a GREAT chance for him to skyrocket though. Him just going HAM and the Thunder not falling off would be a great MVP mini-story.

I haven't seen the Thunder much this year...has KD really actually took that next step? I don't mean that as a negative, because even if he hasn't that still means he's a true MVP caliber player. But I don't quite seem convinced that them becoming 1A/1Bs or whatever has more to do with his progression as it does with the fact that LeBron is just having a lesser year. His 2012-13 looks pretty similar to me.


The gap hasn't existed this year though, for sure. I do think it existed and by a noticeable amount last year, both regular season and playoffs. But not this year. And for that, give the man his (mid-season) MVP!

ManRam
01-08-2014, 12:27 AM
After watching PG play the Raptors, PG isn't even the MVP if his team. its Hibbert. anchors that defense with blocking and altering shots like crazy. Definitely the best center in the East or a tie with Noah.

Is it me or does PG really benefit from playing with two top 10 big men at their positions really open up the 3 point line for him.

The MVP of that team is their defense. I know that doesn't count, but it's true. It's what makes them go. And Hibbs is the leader of that unit. They aren't nearly as dependent on PG offensively as the Thunder and Heat are dependent on KD/LeBron, in huge part because they just don't have to score as much in general. I mean, the Heat defense this year has been pretty average...they need LeBron's offense more than recent years even.

PG's offensive game has predictably regressed...and they're still winning because teams can't even get to 85 against them.

koreancabbage
01-08-2014, 12:32 AM
The MVP of that team is their defense. I know that doesn't count, but it's true. It's what makes them go. And Hibbs is the leader of that unit. They aren't nearly as dependent on PG offensively as the Thunder and Heat are dependent on KD/LeBron, in huge part because they just don't have to score as much in general. I mean, the Heat defense this year has been pretty average...they need LeBron's offense more than recent years even.

PG's offensive game has predictably regressed...and they're still winning because teams can't even get to 85 against them.

agreed. Nothing against PG bc he still makes the game look easy when needed but Terrence Ross, a more agile defender than, lets say Lebron, has shut down PG for two straight games now. Once you take away all the room to operate even on signature PG moves to create space, PG actually looks nothing like the player when shooting open 3 point shots from space created by his bigs passing out of the paint and PG creating space on slower 3's

tredigs
01-08-2014, 12:57 AM
I don't know, with the only advantage Lebron has had on KD being TS% + Assists (not even assist/TO), and both smaller than ever this season, I think it's pretty clear that it's leaning in KD's favor. The talent discrepancy between their teams is so huge with Westbrook out that so long as they continue to win the majority of their games in the meantime KD seems like the top player and MVP this season. Especially if in losses we see things like 48/7/5/4/1 with 0 turnovers. I don't know that KD has actually passed Lebron and I likely doubt it, but that's what we've seen thus far.

If they drop more than half their games without Westbrook, then it's a different story.

Yanks All Day
01-08-2014, 01:17 AM
Kevin Durant has taken his game to the next level and he still isn't the basketball player that LeBron James is. That's with LeBron playing the fewest minutes per game in his entire career this year. Durant is having a career year, and he certainly deserves to be in the discussion. At this exact point last year, he was in the same spot: a career year and the MVP frontrunner. A 20 game win streak later and LeBron was one vote away from what should have been a unanimous decision. If the season ended today, then yes KD would have to be the winner. I get a funny feeling that when the Heat start tuning up for the playoffs and rattle off a win streak of 18/20 and 28/30 or something, we'll end up with the same results. KD is playing all out because he has to, and he's putting up these numbers. LeBron looks like he's playing at half-speed and the Heat don't look engaged at all most of the time, and LeBron's still having arguably the best season in the NBA. When he actually turns it on, I believe he'll become the 5x MVP.

naps
01-08-2014, 04:38 AM
Pretty much this ^^.

FraziersKnicks
01-08-2014, 02:07 PM
I don't know, with the only advantage Lebron has had on KD being TS% + Assists (not even assist/TO), and both smaller than ever this season, I think it's pretty clear that it's leaning in KD's favor. The talent discrepancy between their teams is so huge with Westbrook out that so long as they continue to win the majority of their games in the meantime KD seems like the top player and MVP this season. Especially if in losses we see things like 48/7/5/4/1 with 0 turnovers. I don't know that KD has actually passed Lebron and I likely doubt it, but that's what we've seen thus far.

If they drop more than half their games without Westbrook, then it's a different story.

Hate to nitpick but LeBron has a better assist/to ratio. KD is scoring more, rebounding more, stealing and blocking more, LeBron is more efficient, assisting more and running his team better. LeBron is clearly still the better player and I don't think there should be any argument for that. I do think KD's in the lead in the MVP race, but I think it's gonna come down to the record at the end of the day.

Unless LeBron has a two month stretch where he averages 28/8/8 on 60% shooting (which wouldn't surprise anyone) and the Heat win like 15+ straight, then LeBron will be the clear favourite. If KD can't lead his team to the best record in the west while Westbrook is out that will hurt his chances as well.

In my eyes, whoever has the better record out of the Thunder and the Heat will determine MVP.

Or the voters could get bored of giving it to LeBron and give it to KD.

I think LeBron is holding something back though. Of course he would want to win MVP, but regular season awards don't seem to drive LeBron anymore. He has 4 of them and he just wants more rings now. From what I've seen he's holding something back for the playoffs and I think that's extremely wise. KD on the other hand has the hunger for his first MVP.

FraziersKnicks
01-08-2014, 02:09 PM
In regards to PG, he shouldn't have any serious consideration. It was a 3 horse race until CP3 went down injured. PG would be even more undeserving than Rose was in 2011.

tredigs
01-08-2014, 05:47 PM
"Whoever has the better team record should get it", really Frazier? We're ignoring conferences and cast? There's truly zero excuse to this point for the Heat not to finish with 5 more wins than OKC by years end.

And even if Lebron had the hypothetical 28/8/8 on 60% FG, is that gaining much ground on what we've been seeing from KD all year with 30/8/5 on a 63% TS (which has been 66% over the past month+)? His D has also been outstanding. Some people just feel very reluctant to give KD his due at times. We're seeing a truly legendary season from him, until/if Bron steps it up, that's the #1 in the NBA so far this year. MVP and production wise.

jerellh528
01-08-2014, 06:46 PM
lebron almost 30 and he aint slowing down, Lol i thought you guys said he will start slowing down around this age because he has no skill.....

Yeah, he's not slowing down. He's just having one of his most underwhelming seasons of his past 8 yrs aside from fg%. ;) Mins? he's only down 1 mpg from his last 3 yr average.

FraziersKnicks
01-08-2014, 06:56 PM
"Whoever has the better team record should get it", really Frazier? We're ignoring conferences and cast? There's truly zero excuse to this point for the Heat not to finish with 5 more wins than OKC by years end.

And even if Lebron had the hypothetical 28/8/8 on 60% FG, is that gaining much ground on what we've been seeing from KD all year with 30/8/5 on a 63% TS (which has been 66% over the past month+)? His D has also been outstanding. Some people just feel very reluctant to give KD his due at times. We're seeing a truly legendary season from him, until/if Bron steps it up, that's the #1 in the NBA so far this year. MVP and production wise.

The cast argument is weak, obviously the Thunder are gonna be missing their second best player for a large part of the year but Wade has missed games and Westbrook is clearly superior when he's on the court, Ibaka and Bosh are a wash (Bosh is more talented but plays a less pivotal role because of Ibaka's defense). Outside of those guys, the Thunder have a very talented bench unit with Reggie Jackson better than any PG on the Heat roster, Jeremy Lamb fitting perfectly into that 6th man role and much more productive bigs in Steven Adams and Nick Collison than the Heat can offer.

I think your overstating how much better KD's season has been than LeBron's because LeBron is just doing what we expect of him (and is actually having a down season by his lofty standards).

KD has been incredibly efficient but LeBron crushes him in that regard (really a testament to LeBron's greatness). Their rebounds and assists are exactly the same (13.2 combined each), but I actually give LeBron the edge in that category because I think assist should be valued a tiny bit more than rebounds. KD obviously has the edge in scoring, averaging 4 more points than Bron but I think the efficiency of LeBron evens things up a bit. 26 points on a 66.9 TS% vs. 30 points on 62.7 TS% looks fairly even to me. KD has the edge on LeBron with steals and blocks, but is also playing 2 minutes a game more.

Overall, I give the slight edge to KD, but only really because of the steals and blocks. Everything else pretty much evens out. I don't think he has a significant enough of an advantage to really sway things substantially in his favour.

That's why I'm saying the team with the better record will give their respective player the lead. Westbrook is penned in for a return around the All-Star break and the Thunder have 20 games between now and then. If they go 12-8 or 11-9, the Heat could really pull away record wise which will give LeBron the upper hand. KD slowed down a little bit after the All-Star break and that's when LeBron stepped his game up and led the Heat on their incredible win streak giving him a near unanimous MVP, so we'll have to see what happens this year.

KD is #1 for me at the moment, but only just. He's playing great basketball, but the Thunder need to win whilst Westbrook is out (something they haven't shown they can do consistently in the tough western conference) for him to really have a chance and even then a torrid stretch from LeBron can swing it in his favour. We've hardly had to see KD play without Westbrook (because of his lack of injury history) but it hasn't been pretty when he doesn't. These next few weeks will play a big part in the race to the MVP.

I'm giving KD his due, he's having a fantastic season, and if LeBron didn't exist you could gift wrap KD the MVP now. I have them 1A and 1B, giving KD the slight advantage as of now, but not by a lot.

FraziersKnicks
01-08-2014, 07:00 PM
Yeah, he's not slowing down. He's just having one of his most underwhelming seasons of his past 8 yrs aside from fg%. ;) Mins? he's only down 1 mpg from his last 3 yr average.

26/7/7 on 59/41/75 is slowing down? How's your boy Kobe doing? ;)

jk jk, I shouldn't mention his name in an MVP thread....

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-08-2014, 07:29 PM
Lol.. I just can't believe this.

Lets try and think this from a neutral aspect.

- durant has been on a tear recently and will come back to the norm.

- MVP race is neck and neck

- season isn't half way over and we're talking as if it has ended.

-barely beating out lebron in advanced stats doesn't dictate it will remain the same once season ends.

HOWEVER, if season did end today, yes, durant would not only win MVP but would make a strong argument for best player. But the season doesn't end after less than 40 games otherwise Kobe would've been the best player last season during the beginning of the season.

Call me a lebron homer, etc. but I've always maintained one thing.. Judge how a players rankings be once the season ends. If durant Is ahead, so be it.

jerellh528
01-09-2014, 01:56 AM
26/7/7 on 59/41/75 is slowing down? How's your boy Kobe doing? ;)

jk jk, I shouldn't mention his name in an MVP thread....

He's injured right now, you haven't heard? After having the best season in NBA history for a guy with having played that many mins and last year was a top 5 player. If lebron is still in the league after the amount of mins kobe has played then we will talk. I wonder why the insecure heat/leboners always bring an almost 40 kobe into the convo.

FraziersKnicks
01-09-2014, 05:24 AM
He's injured right now, you haven't heard? After having the best season in NBA history for a guy with having played that many mins and last year was a top 5 player. If lebron is still in the league after the amount of mins kobe has played then we will talk. I wonder why the insecure heat/leboners always bring an almost 40 kobe into the convo.

I just found it funny since you were saying LeBron was slowing down after the numbers he's averaging. Kobephiles so quick to denounce LeBron's greatness.

naps
01-09-2014, 07:09 AM
Funny how people get caught up after 40 games.



I just found it funny since you were saying LeBron was slowing down after the numbers he's averaging. Kobephiles so quick to denounce LeBron's greatness.

Don't waste your time on this guy, nickdymez, and amos1er. Only reason they are active in this forum is because they are too jealous of LeBron and they want to let their hatred be known here.

Chronz
01-09-2014, 01:34 PM
Yeah, he's not slowing down. He's just having one of his most underwhelming seasons of his past 8 yrs aside from fg%. ;) Mins? he's only down 1 mpg from his last 3 yr average.

Where would you rank this season alongside the others? I find the use of the word underwhelming given his efficiency, to be overreacting

jerellh528
01-09-2014, 04:30 PM
Where would you rank this season alongside the others? I find the use of the word underwhelming given his efficiency, to be overreacting

Unless he goes off, this is absolutely evidence of him slowing down. His production is down across the board in every category by his standards, offensively and defensively. He is turning 30 soon, it's not completely unfathomable that he is slowing down. We all know it has to happen some day especially due to his reliance on superior athleticism, yet I still don't get why people continue to think Lebron is not human. I keep hearing how Lebron is by farrrr the best in the nba when durant is currently outplaying him on the season and has better defensive ratings, although I don't put much stock into stuff like that.I would rank this season as one of his bottom 5 since he entered the league. His efficiency is up, but it's always been pretty high and I'm sure it helps being on the best shooting team in nba history as well as playing in a historically weak eastern confrence.

FraziersKnicks
01-09-2014, 05:10 PM
Unless he goes off, this is absolutely evidence of him slowing down. His production is down across the board in every category by his standards, offensively and defensively. He is turning 30 soon, it's not completely unfathomable that he is slowing down. We all know it has to happen some day especially due to his reliance on superior athleticism, yet I still don't get why people continue to think Lebron is not human. I keep hearing how Lebron is by farrrr the best in the nba when durant is currently outplaying him on the season and has better defensive ratings, although I don't put much stock into stuff like that.I would rank this season as one of his bottom 5 since he entered the league. His efficiency is up, but it's always been pretty high and I'm sure it helps being on the best shooting team in nba history as well as playing in a historically weak eastern confrence.

Okay, I'll play your game... LeBron is slowing down. Tell me how many players in the history of the NBA have averaged over 25 points a game with a TS% of 66.9? Go have a look. I'll wait.

FlashBolt
01-09-2014, 05:33 PM
Unless he goes off, this is absolutely evidence of him slowing down. His production is down across the board in every category by his standards, offensively and defensively. He is turning 30 soon, it's not completely unfathomable that he is slowing down. We all know it has to happen some day especially due to his reliance on superior athleticism, yet I still don't get why people continue to think Lebron is not human. I keep hearing how Lebron is by farrrr the best in the nba when durant is currently outplaying him on the season and has better defensive ratings, although I don't put much stock into stuff like that.I would rank this season as one of his bottom 5 since he entered the league. His efficiency is up, but it's always been pretty high and I'm sure it helps being on the best shooting team in nba history as well as playing in a historically weak eastern confrence.

Stop posting please.. Miami has lost 2 of their 8 games against West. That means 6 game to East. What does the historically weak ECF have anything to do with their success this year? And do you even know why they are the best shooting team? Because he has the ability to create open shots. Sorry, but your hate is clearly obvious here. I don't even think you watch NBA games outside of Lakers. LeBron hasn't slowed down one bit. His numbers are down cause his USG is the second lowest of his career. Also, defensive rating is one of the most silliest of all stats. Wade has a lower defensive rating than LeBron.. Guess he's the better defender? So all in all, you have zero arguments but just another display of attempt to discredit the undeniable best player in basketball. And for someone to score 25 PPG under .67 TS%? That is unheard of. The closest is Barkley but Barkley wasn't even a perimeter player.. Mostly to the paint. So yes, his APG and RPG and SPG and BPG are down but you're an idiot if you think that means "slowing" down. Jordan's number were better in his early career but he was not the better player those years. James had some of the highest numbers in 2009 but he was not even close the player he is today...

tredigs
01-09-2014, 06:45 PM
Hmm - I have a feeling the shooting %'s of Miami's cast aren't all that different with Lebron on/off. Not overall, as Lebron himself skews that, but from the likes of Ray/Battier/Chalmers/Wade, etc. He definitely significantly improves the offense, but we shouldn't overlook the fact that they simply have a cast of shooters that can put it in at a ridiculously high rate. Especially with years of synergy and great ball movement under their belt.

Be curious to see if I'm right/wrong, anybody have a quick link to that?

As far as the "cast doesn't matter" talk I saw earlier, should note that I think OKC is 5-4 without Westbrook, and Miami is 4-4 without Wade.

Matter.
01-09-2014, 07:12 PM
Stop posting please.. Miami has lost 2 of their 8 games against West. That means 6 game to East. What does the historically weak ECF have anything to do with their success this year? And do you even know why they are the best shooting team? Because he has the ability to create open shots. Sorry, but your hate is clearly obvious here. I don't even think you watch NBA games outside of Lakers. LeBron hasn't slowed down one bit. His numbers are down cause his USG is the second lowest of his career. Also, defensive rating is one of the most silliest of all stats. Wade has a lower defensive rating than LeBron.. Guess he's the better defender? So all in all, you have zero arguments but just another display of attempt to discredit the undeniable best player in basketball. And for someone to score 25 PPG under .67 TS%? That is unheard of. The closest is Barkley but Barkley wasn't even a perimeter player.. Mostly to the paint. So yes, his APG and RPG and SPG and BPG are down but you're an idiot if you think that means "slowing" down. Jordan's number were better in his early career but he was not the better player those years. James had some of the highest numbers in 2009 but he was not even close the player he is today...


It is not hard to get to the paint and score when you are 250lbs 6'9 and look like a ****ing gorilla..and for him to score at a high percentage, when he takes shots in which he are good an most of the time open.. I still believe when he is 31-34 you will see drops in his games

FraziersKnicks
01-09-2014, 07:16 PM
Hmm - I have a feeling the shooting %'s of Miami's cast aren't all that different with Lebron on/off. Not overall, as Lebron himself skews that, but from the likes of Ray/Battier/Chalmers/Wade, etc. He definitely significantly improves the offense, but we shouldn't overlook the fact that they simply have a cast of shooters that can put it in at a ridiculously high rate. Especially with years of synergy and great ball movement under their belt.

Be curious to see if I'm right/wrong, anybody have a quick link to that?

As far as the "cast doesn't matter" talk I saw earlier, should note that I think OKC is 5-4 without Westbrook, and Miami is 4-4 without Wade.

I wouldn't know where to find those numbers, but I've watched every single Heat game this year and when LeBron is on the court the Heat's shooters have a lot more wide open attempts, because of the attention he attracts when he gets doubled in the post. Whether this translates to a higher percentage or not, I can't confirm (although I would think it does). Another thing to keep in mind would be the sample size of the shots taken when LeBron is off the court. He averages 36 MPG so the shooting percentages when he is off the court would be a lot smaller than when he is on the court, which could skew any numbers (for or against the argument that he improves shooting percentages when playing).

To avoid any confusion, when you bought up the argument of cast, where you arguing LeBron had a superior cast?

FraziersKnicks
01-09-2014, 07:22 PM
It is not hard to get to the paint and score when you are 250lbs 6'9 and look like a ****ing gorilla..

Reported for racism


and for him to score at a high percentage, when he takes shots in which he are good an most of the time open.. I still believe when he is 31-34 you will see drops in his games

LeBron is so silly for taking high percentage shots, he should take more fadeaway deep 2's with a man in his face like Kobe and Melo (I'm criticising my teams star as well, before Kobe fans get all butthurt).

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-09-2014, 07:36 PM
Lol this isn't even up for debate. The reason why we shoot good is because of teams doubling lebron in the post, etc. I'm a heat fan, so I know.

However, I will say that our second unit is by far the best in the "big 3" era.

Unfortunately, our starters have been playing like ****. And nothing to do with lebron on/off the court and more to do with our front court. Sometimes starting battier or shard along with bosh which is just terrible because Haslem has been pathetic this season so far.

Second unit has birdman which helps alleviate and bring some consistent energy we lacked prior seasons. Add in Beasley and we have a very solid 2nd unit.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-09-2014, 07:37 PM
It is not hard to get to the paint and score when you are 250lbs 6'9 and look like a ****ing gorilla..and for him to score at a high percentage, when he takes shots in which he are good an most of the time open.. I still believe when he is 31-34 you will see drops in his games

Id advise you to stop talking about things you have no clue about and start watching heat games.
Thanks.

tredigs
01-09-2014, 08:15 PM
@Frazier, when I brought up the cast, yes, I was stating that the Heat have a significantly better cast than OKC now that Westbrook is gone, and coupled with an easier SOS they (barring unforseen injuries which could change things) should absolutely finish the year with a better record than OKC. I was responding to your comment that 'whichever team between the two has a better record that player should win it'.

@Im_In, sorry - you could be right - but I don't trust a diehard fan on stats involving their team (off of memory). Confirmation bias and all.

Like I said, Lebron clearly improves the offense and helps open things up, but the way I'm reading it from some of you is that you don't even realize that many of these guys have been/are elite shooters with or without Lebron. If he goes down for 2 weeks, I'm guessing we see very little dropoff on that elite shooting.

Anyway, enough midseason MVP talk for me. I'll look back at it in a few months.

Chronz
01-09-2014, 08:22 PM
Unless he goes off, this is absolutely evidence of him slowing down. His production is down across the board in every category by his standards, offensively and defensively. He is turning 30 soon, it's not completely unfathomable that he is slowing down. We all know it has to happen some day especially due to his reliance on superior athleticism, yet I still don't get why people continue to think Lebron is not human. I keep hearing how Lebron is by farrrr the best in the nba when durant is currently outplaying him on the season and has better defensive ratings, although I don't put much stock into stuff like that.I would rank this season as one of his bottom 5 since he entered the league. His efficiency is up, but it's always been pretty high and I'm sure it helps being on the best shooting team in nba history as well as playing in a historically weak eastern confrence.
But his production overall isn't in the bottom 5, you cant just pick and choose which raw stats to look at, efficiency still matters and cannot be so easily dismissed. I will agree hes dealt with a few more injuries this year than in recent past but that influenced his defensive effort more than anything, calling this a bottom 5 season has absolutely no traction.

Efficiency "always being pretty high" doesn't change the fact that its higher than most of his career. I dont see why conferences would alter your perception when it has historically had very little effect and in James case, he has actually seen an increase vs the West and their higher paced teams. We're talking about a very negligible difference here but it still goes directly against your point.

Chronz
01-09-2014, 08:27 PM
To me, a sign of decline comes with a far bigger disparity in statistics, this is actually par for the course for Bron. I do think hes declined athletically, I felt that started a long time ago, but hes still impacting the game at a higher level than his youthful days. At this point, this is closer to one of his best 5 seasons than bottom 5, which to me says hes still in his prime.

5ass
01-09-2014, 08:32 PM
Lets not forget that he is coming off 3 finals runs.

Chronz
01-09-2014, 08:57 PM
I wouldn't know where to find those numbers
nba.com has them now

Stats are Per 100 Possessions:


Ray Allen (http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=951&VsPlayerID=2544&Season=2013-14&PerMode=Per100Possessions)
2014
With Bron(15.5mpg): 49.6FG% - 39.4 3P% (7.8 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 22.0
Without Bron (11.0mpg): 40.4FG% - 31.4 3P%(8.1 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 16.8

2013
With Bron(16.6mpg): 44.5FG% - 42.3 3P% (9.3 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 21.6
Without Bron (10.2mpg): 45.4FG% - 40.9 3P%(7.3 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 23.0


Battier (http://stats.nba.com/playerVsPlayer.html?PlayerID=2203&VsPlayerID=2544&PerMode=Per100Possessions&Season=2013-14) (Just 3pt shooting here)
2014
With Bron: 36.0 3P% (7.8 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 11.2
Without Bron: 28.6 3P%(5.6 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 9.7

2013
With Bron: 44.4 3P% (9.9 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 14.5
Without Bron: 38.4 3P%(7.6 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 12.0

2012
With Bron: 35.1 3P% (7.3 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 12.5
Without Bron: 30.6 3P%(4.7 Attempts) Scoring Rate: 7.8



Was about to do Chalmers but the site crashed, yall can click on the names for the link to do this exercise yourself. Im pretty sure Durant doessomething similar for his teammates tho.

tredigs
01-09-2014, 09:09 PM
^Good work Chronz, I'll check out some of those. NBA.com's stats really are great now.

***** on my point with those two, which is especially surprising being that Ray and Battier are FAR higher than those "Lebron-off" %'s as career shooters. Maybe they just suck with bench units in general.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-09-2014, 09:19 PM
True. And that's understandable. But something to keep in mind.. We have 11 diff starting lineups lol

IKnowHoops
01-09-2014, 09:22 PM
It is not hard to get to the paint and score when you are 250lbs 6'9 and look like a ****ing gorilla..and for him to score at a high percentage, when he takes shots in which he are good an most of the time open.. I still believe when he is 31-34 you will see drops in his games

Like every player who has ever played the game....duh.

Chronz
01-09-2014, 09:51 PM
***** on my point with those two, which is especially surprising being that Ray and Battier are FAR higher than those "Lebron-off" %'s as career shooters. Maybe they just suck with bench units in general.

Yea that tends to be what happens with most players but it still speaks about the importance of the starters themselves. People like to think playing vs bench units is a huge advantage but the difference in defensive abilities between players isn't that severe when compared to the offensive side, often times the best defenders can reside on the bench but the best offensive players are almost always in the starting lineup.

Lets just assume that defenders are worse, would you rather take on B level defenders with A+ offensive support, or C level defenders with C level offensive support? Maybe Im oversimplifying it

And yea, thank god the NBA finally decided to get with the program, they obviously had the means to do it better than all the peripheral sites I used to have to scourge to get this info.

Baller1
01-09-2014, 11:16 PM
Lol.. I just can't believe this.

Lets try and think this from a neutral aspect.

- durant has been on a tear recently and will come back to the norm.

- MVP race is neck and neck

- season isn't half way over and we're talking as if it has ended.

-barely beating out lebron in advanced stats doesn't dictate it will remain the same once season ends.

HOWEVER, if season did end today, yes, durant would not only win MVP but would make a strong argument for best player. But the season doesn't end after less than 40 games otherwise Kobe would've been the best player last season during the beginning of the season.

Call me a lebron homer, etc. but I've always maintained one thing.. Judge how a players rankings be once the season ends. If durant Is ahead, so be it.

Please elaborate. You think a legend in the making in his mid 20's who has improved every single season he's been in the league is going to regress?

Sorry sir, you're seeing Durant's norm.

Baller1
01-09-2014, 11:19 PM
I really get the sense that Lebron fans are falling into the Kobe Stan trap. Kobe fans resented Lebron's greatness because he slowly stole Kobe's crown.

Don't resent Durant because he's finally put himself on the top pedestal with The King. Accept it and appreciate the fact that we're watching two legends make the rest of the league look like peasants in comparison.

KD has been better this season, thus far.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-09-2014, 11:19 PM
Please elaborate. You think a legend in the making in his mid 20's who has improved every single season he's been in the league is going to regress?

Sorry sir, you're seeing Durant's norm.

Dude calm down. He was shooting 46% until he went on a ridiculous tear to raise his shooting%.

Every player has ups and downs throughout the season. People get Caught up in it.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-09-2014, 11:21 PM
I really get the sense that Lebron fans are falling into the Kobe Stan trap. Kobe fans resented Lebron's greatness because he slowly stole Kobe's crown.

Don't resent Durant because he's finally put himself on the top pedestal with The King. Accept it and appreciate the fact that we're watching two legends make the rest of the league look like peasants in comparison.

KD has been better this season, thus far.

I think you need to read comments before jumping to conclusions.

I haven't read one "lebron Stan" say anything negative towards kd yet. Most including myself have given him praise.

Baller1
01-10-2014, 12:30 AM
I'm not mad at all, my bad if it came across that way.

My point is... Bottom line, KD has finally reached Lebron's level. It's time for everyone to realize it and accept it.

NYJ - NYY
01-10-2014, 01:05 AM
Melo :)

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-10-2014, 02:05 AM
Tough night for both top 2 MVP candidates. Both loss.

1. Durant- 30 points, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, 7-18 FG, 2 TOs.

2. LeBron- 32 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assists, 12-17 FG, 6 TOs.

FraziersKnicks
01-10-2014, 09:02 AM
I'm not mad at all, my bad if it came across that way.

My point is... Bottom line, KD has finally reached Lebron's level. It's time for everyone to realize it and accept it.

KD still isn't the complete player LeBron is and I don't think he ever will be. His play this season certainly shows he has closed the gap but I still think LeBron's overall impact on the game separates him from KD.

KD has been incredible this season, no doubt about it but this stretch without Westbrook will really determine his ability to lead a team on his own and that's what I still think separates him from LeBron's level.

Props to KD for developing his game each season though, he's definitely showing the same traits LeBron did when he was the same age with his will to continue to improve.

FlashBolt
01-10-2014, 02:41 PM
It is not hard to get to the paint and score when you are 250lbs 6'9 and look like a ****ing gorilla..and for him to score at a high percentage, when he takes shots in which he are good an most of the time open.. I still believe when he is 31-34 you will see drops in his games

Typical.. Coming from a Lakers fan. Even if you do see a drop, will it ever scoop to your hero 45% FG%? I don't think so. I don't care how he scores. As a matter of fact, why does it even matter? Only a glorified hater would even mention that. Do we ridicule Shaq for scoring in the paint? How about Barkley, Wilt, Ewing? I don't see much argument regarding their offensive abilities. Yet, when we talk about LeBron, the answer is because he's too big and strong for everyone. Great argument. Let's deduct some points from LeBron because he's just physically gifted.

IKnowHoops
01-10-2014, 07:53 PM
Please elaborate. You think a legend in the making in his mid 20's who has improved every single season he's been in the league is going to regress?

Sorry sir, you're seeing Durant's norm.

Durant was playing better last year at this time.

IKnowHoops
01-10-2014, 07:54 PM
I'm not mad at all, my bad if it came across that way.

My point is... Bottom line, KD has finally reached Lebron's level. It's time for everyone to realize it and accept it.

Actually he has not. Lebron's level this year of sheer output has dropped down to KD's level. Thats what you need to realize.

tredigs
01-10-2014, 09:33 PM
No, 'I Know Hoops'. Durant's stats right now would equal Lebron's 2nd best Offensive rating, 2nd best defensive rating, 5th highest PER, 3rd highest WS/48 (<0.01 from his 1st), it would be LBJ's highest efficiency on that level of PPG and would be his most rpg. WinsProduced is also at Lebron's higher level. And bear in mind that those are all from varying times in Lebron's career to this single one of KD's to this point.

They're different players and Lebron will always have the more innate passing gene as KD will always have the more innate shooting gene, but don't delude yourself to think that KD hasn't reached his level of prime production. That's where he's at.

jerellh528
01-10-2014, 09:46 PM
No, 'I Know Hoops'. Durant's stats right now would equal Lebron's 2nd best Offensive rating, 2nd best defensive rating, 5th highest PER, 3rd highest WS/48 (<0.01 from his 1st), it would be LBJ's highest efficiency on that level of PPG and would be his most rpg. WinsProduced is also at Lebron's higher level. And bear in mind that those are all from varying times in Lebron's career to this single one of KD's to this point.

They're different players and Lebron will always have the more innate passing gene as KD will always have the more innate shooting gene, but don't delude yourself to think that KD hasn't reached his level of prime production. That's where he's at.

.

ManRam
01-10-2014, 09:49 PM
I really get the sense that Lebron fans are falling into the Kobe Stan trap. Kobe fans resented Lebron's greatness because he slowly stole Kobe's crown.

Don't resent Durant because he's finally put himself on the top pedestal with The King. Accept it and appreciate the fact that we're watching two legends make the rest of the league look like peasants in comparison.

KD has been better this season, thus far.

LeBron actually is as good as his fans believe him to be. Kobe rarely was ;)

LeBron fans, like me, are also 100% comfortable suggesting he is behind KD in the MVP race right now, too. Kobephiles would never dare be that objective.

;)

But saying that he's regressing? Based on the start of the season? Pardon people for striking that comment down :laugh:

I can assure you that almost nothing that has happened thus far will really matter in the end. The season's too young and voter's memories aren't that strong. KD and Bron were probably neck and neck at this time last year. And expect for the idiot that voted Melo, LeBron was a unanimous MVP winner. Time will sort this out.

jerellh528
01-10-2014, 09:52 PM
LeBron actually is as good as his fans believe him to be. Kobe rarely was ;)

LeBron fans, like me, are also 100% comfortable suggesting he is behind KD in the MVP race right now, too. Kobephiles would never dare be that objective.

;)

But saying that he's regressing? Based on the start of the season? Pardon people for striking that comment down :laugh:

Lebron fans always bring Kobe up. I don't know if they really love Lebron that much or are just trolling laker fans hard after a guy finally overtook Kobe after almost 2 decades of dominance.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-11-2014, 12:22 AM
Yeah lebron is "regressing" LMAO

MVP candidates performance

1. Durant- DNP

2. LeBron- 36 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists, 6 PFs, 12-21 FG, 4 TOs

bucketss
01-11-2014, 01:57 AM
i don't think its possible for anyone to reach kobe stans level. jordan fans come somewhat close.

IKnowHoops
01-11-2014, 03:13 AM
No, 'I Know Hoops'. Durant's stats right now would equal Lebron's 2nd best Offensive rating, 2nd best defensive rating, 5th highest PER, 3rd highest WS/48 (<0.01 from his 1st), it would be LBJ's highest efficiency on that level of PPG and would be his most rpg. WinsProduced is also at Lebron's higher level. And bear in mind that those are all from varying times in Lebron's career to this single one of KD's to this point.

They're different players and Lebron will always have the more innate passing gene as KD will always have the more innate shooting gene, but don't delude yourself to think that KD hasn't reached his level of prime production. That's where he's at.

If he finishes the year with all of what you said then it will be true. Two weeks ago this wasn't the case, now he has to 45 point games in a week, and it gives him a bump. So two weeks ago he wasn't where he is now as a b-ball player is what your telling me. OK great buddy. After what happened last year, Im surprised to see you at it again. Oh well some people never learn. I guess when Bron kicks it up a notch you'll disappear again, but until then I guess I'll have to listen to you tell me how Durant has reached Lebron level. As my boy Thranduil says. "I'm patient, I can wait"

tredigs
01-11-2014, 04:54 AM
28/8/5 on 50/40/90 with a PER over 28 and WS/48 of .290 is what you're alluding to as a meltdown. That's epic. I'd get into more detail but I know those are the only stats you play with. Lmao at me hiding or ever being inaccurate in my assessment of the two last year. I said KD was leading MVP when he was and the same about Lebron when he was. Just I had for Lebron the years prior that he won and when he/Dwight got wronged by the rose vote. You just see the world through bron colored glasses, which is embarrassing as you claim to be a grown man. I call it as it is when it is.

But I'll agree with the patience. It's early enough that this debate is still not even a two man race, even if that's how it seems now.

Hawkeye15
01-11-2014, 05:05 AM
Lebron fans always bring Kobe up. I don't know if they really love Lebron that much or are just trolling laker fans hard after a guy finally overtook Kobe after almost 2 decades of dominance.

Kobe fans are the most defensive fans alive. I never get that...

Kushed
01-11-2014, 05:15 AM
It's back and forth, I still think it will be LeBron at the end of the year. Durant always seems to have a little stretch where he just isn't himself.

sammyvine
01-11-2014, 06:33 AM
Kobe fans are the most defensive fans alive. I never get that...

lebron fan are the same are they not or are you missing that fact because your a lebron stan yourself? Your the one always bringing Kobe up LOL

jerellh528
01-11-2014, 05:09 PM
lebron fan are the same are they not or are you missing that fact because your a lebron stan yourself? Your the one always bringing Kobe up LOL

They're the worst. There could be a thread on anything, such as "who has the best crossover in the nba?" And there will guaranteed at least be a couple people say Lebron or someone say omg no Lebron mention, thread fail! It's comical by now.

Chronz
01-11-2014, 05:23 PM
They're the worst. There could be a thread on anything, such as "who has the best crossover in the nba?" And there will guaranteed at least be a couple people say Lebron or someone say omg no Lebron mention, thread fail! It's comical by now.

Is that true or more Laker oriented exaggerations/fairy tales?

jerellh528
01-11-2014, 05:29 PM
Is that true or more Laker oriented exaggerations/fairy tales?

Go browse a couple of "best nba ____" threads and you'll see for yourself just how true it is.

Chronz
01-11-2014, 05:47 PM
Go browse a couple of "best nba ____" threads and you'll see for yourself just how true it is.

Ive been to them all, I dont recall that kind of exaggeration, if so they definitely werent as numerous. Laker fans will always be the worst because of the sheer number of fanboys they have, maybe Laker fans is the wrong word, kobephiles are.

Whereas with LeBron, at least we see a greater variance in team allegiance, fans of teams outside his own.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-11-2014, 06:22 PM
I have yet to say anything basketball related about Kobe.

But "all lebron fans" mention him huh?

Interesting. Anything else you two wanna generalize?

jerellh528
01-11-2014, 06:27 PM
Ive been to them all, I dont recall that kind of exaggeration, if so they definitely werent as numerous. Laker fans will always be the worst because of the sheer number of fanboys they have, maybe Laker fans is the wrong word, kobephiles are.

Whereas with LeBron, at least we see a greater variance in team allegiance, fans of teams outside his own.

If you say so, this whole kobephiles thing is so overblown there is what, amoser1, illustionist, nickdymeZ, and myself sometimes. Whereas the leBoners are everywhere in every thread thumping lebrons greatness into everyone's ***. There are far more anti Kobe guys than there are Kobe fans around here. Any time we say anything opposing lebrons greatness we get a reply like "oh really, how's Kobe doing right now" etc. when Kobe was not even part of the convo.

Chronz
01-11-2014, 06:31 PM
If you say so, this whole kobephiles thing is so overblown there is what, amoser1, illustionist, nickdymeZ, and myself sometimes. Whereas the leBoners are everywhere in every thread thumping lebrons greatness into everyone's ***.

Like I said, lots of LA fans. Whereas Bron gets a more diverse range of support.

Got any examples of these boners?

jerellh528
01-11-2014, 06:43 PM
Like I said, lots of LA fans. Whereas Bron gets a more diverse range of support.

Got any examples of these boners?

I don't wanna drop dimes but guys like I'm in Miami bish, justinum1, flahsbolt, frazierknicks, koreancabbage, anyone with a heat avatar or sig except for steBo and then there are the laker haters, hawkeye, naps, manram etc. that's just off the top of my head and there are plenty more but I'm probably already going to get a ton of hate and maybe an infraction for this.

Chronz
01-11-2014, 07:09 PM
koreancabbage is a Heat fan?

I thought he was one of yours.

I know Hawkeye hates the Lakers but I'll let the other guys chime in on that one.

jerellh528
01-11-2014, 07:26 PM
koreancabbage is a Heat fan?

I thought he was one of yours.

I know Hawkeye hates the Lakers but I'll let the other guys chime in on that one.

I honestly don't know what Cabbage is, I never see him in our lakers forum. Only out in the main spewing Lebron worship. At least hawkeye admits it and actually adds substance into most of his posts though.

bucketss
01-11-2014, 07:47 PM
I honestly don't know what Cabbage is, I never see him in our lakers forum. Only out in the main spewing Lebron worship. At least hawkeye admits it and actually adds substance into most of his posts though.

hes a raptors fan :)

5ass
01-11-2014, 08:23 PM
Maybe its the fact that kobephiles try(and mostly fail) to discredit all the time.
Ofcourse the best player in the NBA is going to get some Love. Also from what i see he's a better human being than atleast 90% of the athletes out there.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-11-2014, 09:25 PM
Maybe its the fact that kobephiles try(and mostly fail) to discredit all the time.
Ofcourse the best player in the NBA is going to get some Love. Also from what i see he's a better human being than atleast 90% of the athletes out there.

My point exactly. I give credit where it's due. Whether it's Kobe, kd, etc. I also criticize where it's due, INCLUDING lebron.

Any form of praise or threads regarding lebron or potential of him playing other sports gets a negative reaction from these guys. If it's the same people all the time, you'd have to be slow to not realize that there's an agenda here.

Im_in_Mia_bish
01-11-2014, 11:29 PM
Durant- 33 points, 10 rebounds, 7 assists, 2 TOs, 8/18 FG, 15-17 FT

LBJ- DNP