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View Full Version : Omer Asik trade update: Rockets have offer in place, likely to be a three-team deal



spreadeagle
12-16-2013, 01:29 AM
The Rockets are determined to trade Omer Asik in the next few days, and the latest update says that the framework of a three-team deal may be already in place.

Now that Dec. 15 is upon us, players who signed new contracts last summer are eligible to be dealt, and players traded before Dec. 19 are eligible to be included in another deal before the Feb. 20 trade deadline passes.

Houston will continue to shop Asik to get the most they can in return for the talented but disgruntled big man, but if no further offers materialize, there’s one that the team is reportedly willing to accept that may net draft picks in return.

From Jonathan Feigen of the Houston Chronicle:

Morey would not discuss his plans, but a person with knowledge of the Rockets’ thinking said Morey set his Dec. 19 deadline in part because he knows he has an offer he is willing to take. Though things can change several times by Thursday, that individual said “it very likely will be a pretty complicated, three-way deal. There are a lot of moving parts.” …

According to individuals with knowledge of the talks, the Rockets do not have a deal in place but were greatly encouraged when trade talks intensified Dec. 6, so much so that the confidence that they would be ready to pull the trigger helped inspire the Dec. 19 “deadline” as much as needing a deal by then to be able to move players again this season.

As much as speculation has centered around Thad Young, if the Rockets are to do a deal with Philadelphia and former Rockets assistant GM Sam Hinkie, it is more likely to be a three-team deal in which the player the Sixers trade goes elsewhere.

The rumored deal with the Sixers always made the most sense. But if Houston is after picks instead of frontcourt help to bolster the team’s roster, then involving a third team might be the best way to accomplish that.

Marc Stein of ESPN.com reports that the Celitcs may be an option.

The advice offered us Sunday was stern: Keep an eye on Boston. The Celtics possess two players in different salary ranges that would presumably fit in useful ways next to Dwight Howard: Jeff Green and Brandon Bass. The Celts also have a spare first-round draft pick or two to plug into any trade equation to sweeten the deal for Houston, amid rising suspicions around the league that Morey’s Rockets are going to find a way to come out of the Asik saga with at least one future first.

Houston placed championship-level aspirations on this season after acquiring Dwight Howard, and it’s worth noting that dealing Asik for future picks won’t do anything to help the team accomplish that goal. There may be other deals on the horizon for the Rockets, but this one alone involving Asik doesn’t sound all that promising, at least in terms of providing immediate help this season. http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/15/omer-asik-trade-update-rockets-have-offer-in-place-likely-to-be-a-three-team-deal/

hugepatsfan
12-16-2013, 01:33 AM
Sullinger/Olynyk at PF with Asik/Faverani at C intrigues me but I don't think we're at the place we need to be to start making additions like Asik. I don't want to get stuck in that middle ground. BOS's roster isn't crap but all of our pieces are best served as the 4th-8th best players on championship teams. Asik just gives us another guy who fits that description.

WES KOAST
12-16-2013, 01:35 AM
i'll make this bold prediction, asik will be traded by the 19th

RipCity32
12-16-2013, 01:56 AM
Sullinger and Asik would be a solid Frontcourt that should compliment each other well.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-16-2013, 02:02 AM
Asik for Lebron. Book it.

hugepatsfan
12-16-2013, 02:12 AM
Asik for Lebron. Book it.

lmfao at your sig

OaklandsFinest
12-16-2013, 02:31 AM
if I'm Boston, I trade for Asik only if you can send him somewhere else after you raise his stock and send him for another pick. I try and get Melo in the offseason and build around Rondo, Melo, Green, and lottery picks. Unless there's a trade for Monroe.

Chronz
12-16-2013, 03:54 AM
Never doubted him for a second

SINCESTARBURY25
12-16-2013, 04:11 AM
Asik for Melo, Shumpert, Tim Hardaway Jr., jr smith and 3 first round picks.

mdm692
12-16-2013, 09:36 AM
Channing Frye and Ind 2014 1st to Hou
Asik to Bos
Green to Phx

Raps08-09 Champ
12-16-2013, 08:17 PM
Millsap for Asik based.

WARRIORS@GR
12-16-2013, 08:27 PM
Channing Frye and Ind 2014 1st to Hou
Asik to Bos
Green to PhxSo Phoenix gets Jeff Green for Channing ****in Frye and a bottom 1st rnd pick?You are either a Suns homer,or don't know that Jeff Green is preety good.

kobe4thewinbang
12-17-2013, 12:53 AM
So Phoenix gets Jeff Green for Channing ****in Frye and a bottom 1st rnd pick?You are either a Suns homer,or don't know that Jeff Green is preety good.Yeah, idiotic trade. Never happen. I do like Frye. Glad to see him playing alright after his health problems.

*Silver&Black*
12-17-2013, 12:59 AM
Millsap for Asik based.

And Hawks get whatever the 3rd team is offering? If it's a 3 team trade, Hawks seem to only trade Millsap for a starting center. Wonder what the 3rd team is for?

sixer04fan
12-17-2013, 01:03 AM
Here's what I posted in the other Asik thread. What I think the trade could be


There are reports saying it could be a three team deal with Philly and Boston.

I can see a type of deal where Boston gets Asik, Houston gets Bass and either Hawes or Thad, and Philly gets a 1st rounder from Boston and takes on one of Boston's contract dumps like Gerald Wallace or Kris Humphries. With some other spare moving parts in the background.

Houston gets some solid role players on modest contracts that can compliment Dwight fairly well and provide good depth in the front court. Boston gets Asik for Bass and a first. Rondo/Asik is a very respectable PG/C starting point for a team that's retooling, not tanking. And they get to dump either Humphries or Wallace on Philly to seal the deal. And with Philly being below the salary floor, they can afford to take on Humphries or Wallace, while getting to trade away one of the vets for another first round pick in the tank effort.

hugepatsfan
12-17-2013, 01:53 AM
Here's what I posted in the other Asik thread. What I think the trade could be

Would you guys really take Wallace's salary?

sixer04fan
12-17-2013, 02:34 AM
Would you guys really take Wallace's salary?

Ideally we would get Humphries since he's expiring. But if we took Wallace's salary maybe we get better compensation. Like getting another draft pick or something.

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 05:02 PM
Looks like Boston is offering Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee and a first round pick for Asik.

Courtney Lee back in Houston again, and re-united with Dwight since Lee's Rookie season in 2008-09.

rockets-fan
12-18-2013, 05:12 PM
Looks like Boston is offering Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee and a first round pick for Asik.
Courtney Lee back in Houston again, and re-united with Dwight since Lee's Rookie season in 2008-09.

I'd be all over that, loved lee when he was in Houston and bass can hit that consistent jumper to make Houston a force out west, IMO

hugepatsfan
12-18-2013, 05:18 PM
I'd be all over that, loved lee when he was in Houston and bass can hit that consistent jumper to make Houston a force out west, IMO

Bass also has become a very strong defender. Him and Lee both have experience playing with Howard too so that likely helps at least somewhat in the team adjusting to new pieces.

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 05:23 PM
I'd be all over that, loved lee when he was in Houston and bass can hit that consistent jumper to make Houston a force out west, IMO

Howard and Brandon Bass also played in Orlando together, but according to Adrian Wojnarowski, he and Howard didn't get along. Maybe that's why Howard may have forced Orlando FO to trade Bass to Boston for Glen Davis at that time.

mjt20mik
12-18-2013, 05:23 PM
Bass plus a first for Asik.. i just don't see how he's worth that much

hugepatsfan
12-18-2013, 05:26 PM
Howard and Brandon Bass also played in Orlando together, but according to Adrian Wojnarowski, he and Howard didn't get along. Maybe that's why Howard may have forced Orlando FO to trade Bass to Boston for Glen Davis at that time.

Bass did use to be nicknamed "no pass Bass." He's come a long way in that area in BOS so maybe they'd get along better now. Still, interesting find. Maybe that's where the talk of a 3 team deal comes in... Instead of getting Bass, HOU gets Young from Philly. Philly takes Bass and gets the pick.

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 05:27 PM
Bass did use to be nicknamed "no pass Bass." He's come a long way in that area in BOS so maybe they'd get along better now. Still, interesting find. Maybe that's where the talk of a 3 team deal comes in... Instead of getting Bass, HOU gets Young from Philly. Philly takes Bass and gets the pick.

I don't see why Philly should get the pick, I don't think Thaddeus Young is worth a Brandon Bass plus a pick. I see the pick going to Houston in all honesty.

hugepatsfan
12-18-2013, 05:31 PM
I don't see why Philly should get the pick, I don't think Thaddeus Young is worth a Brandon Bass plus a pick. I see the pick going to Houston in all honesty.

My prediction...

BOS gets: C Omer Asik, G/F Ronnie Brewer
HOU gets: F Thaddeus Young, G Courtney Lee
PHI gets: F Brandon Bass

Either HOU or PHI gets the pick. I don't think it will be one in the upcoming draft though. I think it will be the 2015 LAC BOS has from the Doc Rivers deal.

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 05:32 PM
If I'm Houston, I try to involve the Pelicans as the 3rd team.

Houston gets: Ryan Anderson (from NOP) and Courtney Lee (from BOS)

Boston gets: Omer Asik (from HOU) and Anthony Morrow (from NOP)

Pelicans get: Brandon Bass (from BOS) and a first round pick (from HOU)

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 05:33 PM
My prediction...

BOS gets: C Omer Asik, G/F Ronnie Brewer
HOU gets: F Thaddeus Young, G Courtney Lee
PHI gets: F Brandon Bass

Either HOU or PHI gets the pick. I don't think it will be one in the upcoming draft though. I think it will be the 2015 LAC BOS has from the Doc Rivers deal.

Wojanrowski said yesterday there is a mystery team involved. Me thinks that mystery team is the Pelicans as they have the guy that Houston has highly coveted since they signed Howard to pair up with him from their Orlando days in Ryan Anderson.

hugepatsfan
12-18-2013, 05:34 PM
If I'm Houston, I try to involve the Pelicans as the 3rd team.

Houston gets: Ryan Anderson (from NOP) and Courtney Lee (from BOS)

Boston gets: Omer Asik (from HOU) and Anthony Morrow (from NOP)

Pelicans get: Brandon Bass (from BOS) and a first round pick (from HOU)

NO doesn't appear interested at all in moving Anderson. I don't think a late 1st round pick is worth the downgrade from Anderson to Bass. BOS probably has to kick in a pick too though to land Asik so maybe a second one sweetens the deal to where they accept it but I don't think that's likely.

bagwell368
12-18-2013, 05:35 PM
if I'm Boston, I trade for Asik only if you can send him somewhere else after you raise his stock and send him for another pick. I try and get Melo in the offseason and build around Rondo, Melo, Green, and lottery picks. Unless there's a trade for Monroe.

Why do you hate the Celtics? Rondo sucks compared to his reputation among fans that don't see him every night like I do.

Melo takes way too many low quality shots and doesn't do enough in other phases to be interesting - plus he's very near or in his decline - no thanks.

bagwell368
12-18-2013, 05:37 PM
Bass plus a first for Asik.. i just don't see how he's worth that much

Asik is worth a lot more in the East which is in case you didn't notice - a wasteland.

X12Celtics3
12-18-2013, 05:38 PM
I like that trade for Boston. It would be nice to have a legitimate center on the team to pair with Sullinger and Olynyk. I like Courtney Lee and Brandon Bass, but they're both veterans and stuck in logjams at their respective positions; Avery Bradley and Jordan Crawford are getting most of the minutes in the backcourt at the moment and will probably soon be joined by Rondo, and Bass is spending most of his minutes playing with Sully/Olynyk, which is just not a good fit. I

I wanted the Celtics to tank, but based on how abysmal the eastern conference is this year, they might as well just keep playing hard and try to get some playoff experience. This deal helps them in the short term (better defense, better rebounding, better playing style to compliment Sully/Olynyk), sheds a little bit of salary, and gives them flexibility going forward (Asik could always be traded again next season if Boston isn't going to resign him and since they have 9 picks in the next five years, that's not a big loss).

hugepatsfan
12-18-2013, 05:39 PM
If BOS did get Asik I could see them ending up flipping him to OKC for Perkins' expiring deal and a 1st round pick in the offseason. If he plays really well they maybe even get another pick added. If they give up Lee, Bass and the 2015 LAC pick for him now and then do that in the offseason the net result would be that they shed the last year of Lee's deal and upgrade their 2015 pick to the better draft class of 2014.

hugepatsfan
12-18-2013, 05:40 PM
I like that trade for Boston. It would be nice to have a legitimate center on the team to pair with Sullinger and Olynyk. I like Courtney Lee and Brandon Bass, but they're both veterans and stuck in logjams at their respective positions; Avery Bradley and Jordan Crawford are getting most of the minutes in the backcourt at the moment and will probably soon be joined by Rondo, and Bass is spending most of his minutes playing with Sully/Olynyk, which is just not a good fit. I

I wanted the Celtics to tank, but based on how abysmal the eastern conference is this year, they might as well just keep playing hard and try to get some playoff experience. This deal helps them in the short term (better defense, better rebounding, better playing style to compliment Sully/Olynyk), sheds a little bit of salary, and gives them flexibility going forward (Asik could always be traded again next season if Boston isn't going to resign him and since they have 9 picks in the next five years, that's not a big loss).

Bingo.

YoungOne
12-18-2013, 05:50 PM
getting rid of bass' and lees contract while adding asik? I'm in!

celtNYpatsHeels
12-18-2013, 05:52 PM
Why is nobody talking about how much better the rockets get by adding Bass and Lee to their rotation?

Sportfan
12-18-2013, 06:34 PM
As a Celtics fan, I'm not a fan of this deal at all if it's a 3 for 1. Asik is the best player in this deal, but he's only a year younger than Bass and Lee so it's like we're dealing aging vets for a youngster with loads of potential Lee is playing great ball right now, 600 TS% and good defense. He and Bass both have 16 PER and .133 WS/48. They are both good rotation players under contract for cheaper money than Asik who has 1 more year after this.

Then we add a first as well? Sorry, I don't think it's worth it.

Sportfan
12-18-2013, 06:37 PM
getting rid of bass' and lees contract while adding asik? I'm in!

Bass expires next season thesame year as Asik and is cheaper.

Lee's contract is a good deal considering his production, 3/16.

YoungOne
12-18-2013, 07:04 PM
Bass expires next season thesame year as Asik and is cheaper.

Lee's contract is a good deal considering his production, 3/16.

- we get further under the luxury tax (3.3 mil) which give us more flexibilty this season
- we get a legitimate center, which we need cause we have none
- getting rid of the logjam at SG and PF
- getting rid of lee's last year salary

I think this outweights the loss of bass' and lees production + a mid first round pick

Gibby23
12-18-2013, 07:14 PM
- we get further under the luxury tax (3.3 mil) which give us more flexibilty this season
- we get a legitimate center, which we need cause we have none
- getting rid of the logjam at SG and PF
- getting rid of lee's last year salary

I think this outweights the loss of bass' and lees production + a mid first round pick

it could be a top 10 pick, we don't know that the Celtics will be good in a year or two. It seems like a 2015 or 2016 pick.

bagwell368
12-18-2013, 07:16 PM
As a Celtics fan, I'm not a fan of this deal at all if it's a 3 for 1. Asik is the best player in this deal, but he's only a year younger than Bass and Lee so it's like we're dealing aging vets for a youngster with loads of potential Lee is playing great ball right now, 600 TS% and good defense. He and Bass both have 16 PER and .133 WS/48. They are both good rotation players under contract for cheaper money than Asik who has 1 more year after this.

Then we add a first as well? Sorry, I don't think it's worth it.

Bass isn't a Center. Our Center is a back-up Center. We need a Center.

Lee for the first time in his time here actually might be near worth his contract, same for Bass - that's the time to make a deal.

Getting those guys off the books means Asik can be extended next year if he works out, or dealt off if not. Bass and Lee are ponies, and Asik is not a stallion (but he might be in the East) but he's at least a good sized horse on the D.

bagwell368
12-18-2013, 07:18 PM
Bass expires next season thesame year as Asik and is cheaper.

Lee's contract is a good deal considering his production, 3/16.

But Lee was way under water until what 3 weeks ago? And Bass's time here until about the same period was also nothing better than barely meeting his contract - if that.

Don't confuse role guys momentarily flashing as meaning that they are permanently going to be as good or better than recently.

bagwell368
12-18-2013, 07:19 PM
it could be a top 10 pick, we don't know that the Celtics will be good in a year or two. It seems like a 2015 or 2016 pick.

The word so far is that it's the Clips '15 pick. No way I do a deal with a Celts pick unless it's protected.

Gibby23
12-18-2013, 07:20 PM
The word so far is that it's the Clips '15 pick. No way I do a deal with a Celts pick unless it's protected.

Thats not bad then. SHould be in the 20's.

celtics 34
12-18-2013, 07:27 PM
The word so far is that it's the Clips '15 pick. No way I do a deal with a Celts pick unless it's protected.

Yup but the rockets are insisting on the pick being in '14 but the celtics are reluctant and rightfully so

bagwell368
12-18-2013, 07:41 PM
Yup but the rockets are insisting on the pick being in '14 but the celtics are reluctant and rightfully so

Rightfully so? Get out with that. Insist? Then the deal is dead or more sugar is coming back to the Celts.

celtics 34
12-18-2013, 07:44 PM
Rightfully so? Get out with that. Insist? Then the deal is dead or more sugar is coming back to the Celts.by the rightfully so i meant it is good that they would ptobably give up the clips pick instead of any pick this year .also saw the deal is just between the celtics and rockets no 3 team deal

shep33
12-18-2013, 07:46 PM
I like it for the Celtics minus the first rounder.

celtics 34
12-18-2013, 07:49 PM
I like it for the Celtics minus the first rounder.

Yea but the celtics are trying to give up the clips pick which probably won't be that good

shep33
12-18-2013, 07:51 PM
Yea but the celtics are trying to give up the clips pick which probably won't be that good

Ah okay. Makes it better.

mightybosstone
12-18-2013, 07:54 PM
As I said in the other thread, I'm very pleased by the deal as a Rockets fan if it ends up being Bass, Lee and a 1st rounder, even if it's a late first rounder. Bass fills a major need for the second unit, which lacks front court depth, and he could even play a little bit of small ball 5 for a team that loves to run. And Lee was a fan favorite in Houston during his time here, who a lot of people (myself included) were sad to see go. The Rockets desperately need more defense on the wings, and he provides that in spades.

If this deal goes down as it currently looks, it will depend on which pick goes to Houston whether or not the Rockets or Celtics "won" the deal. But I still think it makes a lot of sense for both teams, regardless. The Celtics needed a center and the Rockets needed front court depth and perimeter defense while unloading a disgruntled center. Both teams get rid of under-utilized players and both teams get better on paper. Win-win.

celtics 34
12-18-2013, 07:58 PM
As I said in the other thread, I'm very pleased by the deal as a Rockets fan if it ends up being Bass, Lee and a 1st rounder, even if it's a late first rounder. Bass fills a major need for the second unit, which lacks front court depth, and he could even play a little bit of small ball 5 for a team that loves to run. And Lee was a fan favorite in Houston during his time here, who a lot of people (myself included) were sad to see go. The Rockets desperately need more defense on the wings, and he provides that in spades.

If this deal goes down as it currently looks, it will depend on which pick goes to Houston whether or not the Rockets or Celtics "won" the deal. But I still think it makes a lot of sense for both teams, regardless. The Celtics needed a center and the Rockets needed front court depth and perimeter defense while unloading a disgruntled center. Both teams get rid of under-utilized players and both teams get better on paper. Win-win.

Another thing that would be a win is if you guys to got gWallace as well

Dade County
12-18-2013, 08:03 PM
I would like Portland to trade for Asik & Melo...

I think this team would mesh.

mightybosstone
12-18-2013, 08:04 PM
Another thing that would be a win is if you guys to got gWallace as well

I would rather eat a bowl of rocks than take back Gerald Wallace's abortion of a contract. $30 million over 3 years? No thank you.

Tony_Starks
12-18-2013, 08:07 PM
Depending on the pick its not too shabby a deal for Boston. Sullinger and Crawford have emerged so both players were expendable.

On the Houston side I guess that's as good as they can get. Although I'm curious if they will try to re-route Bass. Him and Howard didnt really work that well together in Orlando. Unless they bring him off the bench....

mightybosstone
12-18-2013, 08:07 PM
I would like Portland to trade for Asik & Melo...

I think this team would mesh.

And Portland would do that how, exactly? To get Melo, they'd likely have to give up at least either Aldridge or Lillard. A Portland team with Melo and Asik would be a very different basketball team from the one currently constructed, and why would Portland want to mess with a good thing when they have the best record in the league?

mightybosstone
12-18-2013, 08:10 PM
Depending on the pick its not too shabby a deal for Boston. Sullinger and Crawford have emerged so both players were expendable.

On the Houston side I guess that's as good as they can get. Although I'm curious if they will try to re-route Bass. Him and Howard didnt really work that well together in Orlando. Unless they bring him off the bench....

I think Morey and the coaching staff feel pretty confident in Jones, so I don't expect Bass to start unless Jones really has a bad stretch of games. But Houston has really struggled with their front court depth when Asik has been out, so Bass would fill a huge need depth-wise. I wouldn't be surprised if Morey dealt Bass at the deadline, though. No players on this team other than Harden, Dwight and Parsons are off limits to him.

5ass
12-18-2013, 08:20 PM
Depending on the pick its not too shabby a deal for Boston. Sullinger and Crawford have emerged so both players were expendable.

On the Houston side I guess that's as good as they can get. Although I'm curious if they will try to re-route Bass. Him and Howard didnt really work that well together in Orlando. Unless they bring him off the bench....

Who told you bass didnt play well with howard? He did. Anderson just eventually outplayed him

bbd24
12-18-2013, 08:27 PM
Win Win trade for both. Just based on the players that are involved, and the fact that all compliment the other players on the rosters.

Celtics have like 800 first round picks in the next 5 years. They can afford 1

5ass
12-18-2013, 08:45 PM
Bass has one of if not the best midrange jumpshot in the league. He will take over the starting spot, jones is ok, but he clearly needs more work.

NYMetros
12-18-2013, 08:48 PM
I think if the Celtics can give up the Clippers pick in next year's draft then it will be a good trade for both sides.

mightybosstone
12-18-2013, 08:58 PM
Bass has one of if not the best midrange jumpshot in the league. He will take over the starting spot, jones is ok, but he clearly needs more work.

That's a huge assumption. Jones has awesome since moving into the starting lineup, and it's extremely unlikely Bass is going to step into the starting spot on day one. He'll have to prove that he belongs in the starting lineup and that the team is better with him starting than with Jones. One thing is certain. Jones' potential absolutely dwarfs the player that Bass is right now, so even if Bass were to start, that won't last long.

Sportfan
12-18-2013, 09:05 PM
But Lee was way under water until what 3 weeks ago? And Bass's time here until about the same period was also nothing better than barely meeting his contract - if that.

Don't confuse role guys momentarily flashing as meaning that they are permanently going to be as good or better than recently.
I wasn't nearly down on Lee as other celtic fans were. He's the most consistent guard on the team rn tbh. Bradley and Crawford fluctuate a little too much for my liking, Bass and Lee fluctuate a little too much for my liking.

We have almost too much depth so I am fine trading multiple players for 1, but moving one of our picks for a guy isn't a huge game changer is pretty meh. I'm indifferent to this deal with the pick. Especially if it's anything other than LAC 2015

I just hope this doesn't become another Raef Lafrentz.

Dade County
12-18-2013, 09:08 PM
And Portland would do that how, exactly? To get Melo, they'd likely have to give up at least either Aldridge or Lillard.


When a player is about to become a free agent, that player team really has know leverage... And you really never get back equal value for a star player (most of the time).




A Portland team with Melo and Asik would be a very different basketball team from the one currently constructed, and why would Portland want to mess with a good thing when they have the best record in the league?

Fools gold.

If you have been watching the NBA long enough, you know that from time to time, a team occoulsnally pops up out of know where and goes on a run; this doesn't mean that said team will make it out of the 1st rd.

Portland needs to capitalize on their good fortunes, before reality comes knocking.

5ass
12-18-2013, 10:12 PM
That's a huge assumption. Jones has awesome since moving into the starting lineup, and it's extremely unlikely Bass is going to step into the starting spot on day one. He'll have to prove that he belongs in the starting lineup and that the team is better with him starting than with Jones. One thing is certain. Jones' potential absolutely dwarfs the player that Bass is right now, so even if Bass were to start, that won't last long.
I dont know man, thats just my opinion. We'll see soon enough. And yes i was talking about this season only.

FOBolous
12-18-2013, 10:42 PM
Dayrl Morey just followed Millsap on twitter *gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasp* :speechless:

Htownballa1622
12-18-2013, 11:20 PM
Dayrl Morey just followed Millsap on twitter *gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasp* :speechless:

:win:

NYMetros
12-18-2013, 11:28 PM
Dayrl Morey just followed Millsap on twitter *gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasp* :speechless:

Wow, Asik for Millsap? That makes Houston scary good.

Of course, it could be posturing by Morey if him and the Celtics are still haggling over which 1st rounder Houston would be receiving.

shep33
12-18-2013, 11:51 PM
ATL are stupid for giving up Milsap for Asik

NBA_Starter
12-18-2013, 11:56 PM
ATL are stupid for giving up Milsap for Asik

I agree :up:

Asik's better
12-19-2013, 12:42 AM
It's nothing, rockets have a history of doing this to mess with people. Remember when the rockets twitter followed all this Orlando players making everyone think a trade was going to happen

KniCks4LiFe
12-19-2013, 02:20 AM
they wouldn't be that stupid.

jsthornton7
12-19-2013, 02:41 AM
ATL are stupid for giving up Milsap for Asik

I don't know about that. Atlanta need rebounding and Asik could be a great complement to Horford down low.

rhino17
12-19-2013, 02:57 AM
Bass has one of if not the best midrange jumpshot in the league. He will take over the starting spot, jones is ok, but he clearly needs more work.

Ad that skill is worthless on the rockets.
The rockets system discourages mid range shot because they are statistically the worst to take. It's drive and score in the paint or hit a 3. Mid range is meaningless to them

*Silver&Black*
12-19-2013, 03:27 AM
ATL are stupid for giving up Milsap for Asik

Where did they? I don't see any trade. Danny Ferry has done nothing but smart decisions so far with the Hawks (trading Joe Johnson and still getting benefits for it like option of trading picks with Nets for the next 2 seasons, letting Josh Smith walk, signing Millsap to a cap friendly deal, re-signing Korver, hiring coach Bud, etc), I highly doubt he will do a "stupid" deal here.

kingsdelez24
12-19-2013, 04:27 AM
ATL are stupid for giving up Milsap for Asik

No it wouldn't. It would finally push Horford to the 4 and will back him defensively so he doesnt have to work so hard on both ends. It would be a win-win

Hawkeye15
12-19-2013, 04:31 AM
Ad that skill is worthless on the rockets.
The rockets system discourages mid range shot because they are statistically the worst to take. It's drive and score in the paint or hit a 3. Mid range is meaningless to them

they hate long 2's, but if a player statistically is money from the 13-17 foot area, its an asset. Though I do get what you are saying.

Hawkeye15
12-19-2013, 04:32 AM
No it wouldn't. It would finally push Horford to the 4 and will back him defensively so he doesnt have to work so hard on both ends. It would be a win-win

it wouldn't be, due to Asik's salary jumping to superstar money next season.

Chrisclover
12-19-2013, 04:44 AM
Clone 10 Asiks and I would deal if I were Riley
Asik for Lebron. Book it.

2-ONE-5
12-19-2013, 11:51 AM
When a player is about to become a free agent, that player team really has know leverage... And you really never get back equal value for a star player (most of the time).



If you have been watching the NBA long enough, you know that from time to time, a team occoulsnally pops up out of know where and goes on a run; this doesn't mean that said team will make it out of the 1st rd.

Portland needs to capitalize on their good fortunes, before reality comes knocking.

reality wont come knocking bcuz they are for real. they had one of the most productive starting 5's last year and since have really found contributers like Mo Will and D Wright to come off the bench and produce well plus they got McCollum coming back sooner or later. They are a very deep team that has very few needs.

SouthSideRookie
12-19-2013, 01:20 PM
reality wont come knocking bcuz they are for real. they had one of the most productive starting 5's last year and since have really found contributers like Mo Will and D Wright to come off the bench and produce well plus they got McCollum coming back sooner or later. They are a very deep team that has very few needs.

Look at their record vs teams below .500 and above .500.

It's just a matter of time.

2-ONE-5
12-19-2013, 01:24 PM
they beat Denver twice, OKC, Indy, Houston. not sure what you are looking at. the only losses are to Dallas, Hoston, PHX, and Minny last night on their 3rd rd game in 4 nights with one being OT and the other coming to the buzzer.

SouthSideRookie
12-19-2013, 02:07 PM
Sounds like Asik won't be traded.

black1605
12-19-2013, 02:12 PM
Sounds like Asik won't be traded.

Nope. That third year at ridiculous money is proving to be the hurdle I thought it would. Poor Foresight on Houston's part.

torocan
12-19-2013, 02:12 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 10m
Houston has ended talks on an Omer Asik trade and plan to keep him for now, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 8m
Houston has found too many teams leery of Asik's contract next season, and hasn't found a deal it wants.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 7m
Houston had created a self-imposed deadline of today, but remember: the trade deadline is still two months away.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

Looks like there's nothing to see here...

KniCks4LiFe
12-19-2013, 02:17 PM
that's gonna be really awkward.

shep33
12-19-2013, 02:25 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 10m
Houston has ended talks on an Omer Asik trade and plan to keep him for now, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 8m
Houston has found too many teams leery of Asik's contract next season, and hasn't found a deal it wants.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 7m
Houston had created a self-imposed deadline of today, but remember: the trade deadline is still two months away.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA

Looks like there's nothing to see here...


Morey wants picks, particularly a 1st rounder this year. No way he's getting one though


Morey should be careful. I think he's getting a little too cute here... saying that they'd trade Asik by today. He might burn some bridges as a trading partner

2-ONE-5
12-19-2013, 02:31 PM
still having a feeling something gets done since they actually have til tomorrow to deal him and keep him/others eligible to go at the deadline

Htownballa1622
12-19-2013, 02:35 PM
Nope. That third year at ridiculous money is proving to be the hurdle I thought it would. Poor Foresight on Houston's part.

The thing is they have offers they can take. Morey just won't settle when he knows Asik's value.

We could always just keep him or trade him at the deadline.

Also, that last year will be an expiring next year that people can trade for.

Max.This
12-19-2013, 02:36 PM
Morey wants picks, particularly a 1st rounder this year. No way he's getting one though


Morey should be careful. I think he's getting a little too cute here... saying that they'd trade Asik by today. He might burn some bridges as a trading partner


He's going to get smoked on this one. Noone is going to give the rockets what they want because they have no leverage. His contract is bad, his value is at an all time low because with how the team has used him. Who is going to give them a first round draft pick in 2014. Thats a joke and anyone who believed that is a joke. They've been extremely lucky with harden/ Dwight and it covers up their boneheaded decisions in Lin, Asik.

Chronz
12-19-2013, 02:45 PM
He's going to get smoked on this one. Noone is going to give the rockets what they want because they have no leverage. His contract is bad, his value is at an all time low because with how the team has used him. Who is going to give them a first round draft pick in 2014. Thats a joke and anyone who believed that is a joke. They've been extremely lucky with harden/ Dwight and it covers up their boneheaded decisions in Lin, Asik.

Nothing lucky about it, it was carefully laid out plan that allowed them the flexibility and assets to pull the deal off and still field a quality team around said stars. Doing so while never getting the authority to tank either. And what "bonehead" decisions? Those are 2 quality players, that they no longer fill a need is a result of them pulling off bigger deals. Nobody cares about how Asik is playing right now, everyone already knows what hes capable of. Asik is clearly worth a first rounder if you're a team drafting late, sadly those are the kind of teams the Rockets are trying to avoid dealing with. They dont want Asik locking down Dwight in a series.

Tony_Starks
12-19-2013, 02:50 PM
They really shot themselves in the foot with that third year. If that Boston deal was legit they were foolish not to take it. The deals are only going to get worse as time goes on because teams know they have to dump him and just low ball them.

My guess is that Danny Ainge wouldn't budge on giving up one of next years picks. Just my guess...

Chronz
12-19-2013, 02:57 PM
They really shot themselves in the foot with that third year. If that Boston deal was legit they were foolish not to take it. The deals are only going to get worse as time goes on because teams know they have to dump him and just low ball them.

My guess is that Danny Ainge wouldn't budge on giving up one of next years picks. Just my guess...

Without Asik, they dont have the playoff run of last year. Without that run, does Harden get the same praise league wide? Does Howard want to join a team that becomes far removed from their last playoff appearance?

If the position the Rox are in is "shooting themselves in the foot" then we should all be so lucky, its a pretty great problem to have, that you have a center that you cant just give away for free and would rather wait it out.

I highly doubt the trades get worse, as you approach the deadline trade talks increase anyways, not trading Asik today just means the Rox have to make a single great deal as opposed to multiple minor ones. If they cant move him then I expect Asik to man up and play, he wont just sit out and hes the best backup C in the league.

Tony_Starks
12-19-2013, 03:08 PM
Without Asik, they dont have the playoff run of last year. Without that run, does Harden get the same praise league wide? Does Howard want to join a team that becomes far removed from their last playoff appearance?

If the position the Rox are in is "shooting themselves in the foot" then we should all be so lucky, its a pretty great problem to have, that you have a center that you cant just give away for free and would rather wait it out.

I highly doubt the trades get worse, as you approach the deadline trade talks increase anyways, not trading Asik today just means the Rox have to make a single great deal as opposed to multiple minor ones. If they cant move him then I expect Asik to man up and play, he wont just sit out and hes the best backup C in the league.

Man the "insiders" are saying multiple teams were scared off by that 3rd year. I didn't say it, they did. They also said teams knew they had to move him so the deals weren't that great. Again this is what THEY are saying.

So if his value around the league is that low now, how exactly would it get better by the trade deadline?

2-ONE-5
12-19-2013, 03:49 PM
they wont get a first rounder for Asik no matter what. When he counts for over 15 mil next year hes not worth it

KnicksFan4Years
12-19-2013, 03:50 PM
Man the "insiders" are saying multiple teams were scared off by that 3rd year. I didn't say it, they did. They also said teams knew they had to move him so the deals weren't that great. Again this is what THEY are saying.

So if his value around the league is that low now, how exactly would it get better by the trade deadline?

Some team will be more desperate and pay a slightly higher price. Rockets can always trade Asik in the offseason if they wish. Especially when there is more clarity about which picks are worth what. Because of Asik's contract, Houston will find it very difficult to get good value trading him.

torocan
12-19-2013, 03:52 PM
Morey should be careful. I think he's getting a little too cute here... saying that they'd trade Asik by today. He might burn some bridges as a trading partner

I don't think so. Reserve prices on auctions are very, very common.

Morey had a minimum price, it wasn't met, so he halted the auction. That doesn't hurt his credibility, if anything it helps his credibility in terms of establishing that when he says he wants a minimum of "X", GM's are going to know that he's serious.

Negotiators that say "This is my minimum or I walk!" who don't stick to it are looked at as push overs and not credible in terms of demands. Those who stick to a minimum are looked at as credible and serious.

If anything, this will weed out "tire kickers" in future negotiations.

torocan
12-19-2013, 03:53 PM
they wont get a first rounder for Asik no matter what. When he counts for over 15 mil next year hes not worth it

The offered Celtics deal already had a 1st rounder in it. The question was protection and which year of the pick.

Morey will get a 1st rounder and possibly more eventually. The only question is the details.

hugepatsfan
12-19-2013, 03:58 PM
The problem HOU is having is that none of the suitors for Asik really have a lot of motivation to get a deal done. BOS, PHI, CLE, ATL - none of them have any legit title hopes even with Asik. That means that none of them are likely to really go above and beyond to land him. He'd be a nice piece for any of them to add (especially BOS or ATL because Asik allows the bigs those teams already have to play in better spots) but the benefit of doing so is pretty marginal.

A team like OKC or even POR is more likely to pay a high premium to land him because of how close they are but dealing him to those teams weakens HOU's chances for a title even if they get more back because those teams are significant threats and in conference.

hugepatsfan
12-19-2013, 04:01 PM
The offered Celtics deal already had a 1st rounder in it. The question was protection and which year of the pick.

Morey will get a 1st rounder and possibly more eventually. The only question is the details.

The deal also added $3.3 million to their salary number this year, $4.1 million next season and $5.7 the following year. Yes they were getting a first round pick but it by all accounts Ainge has 0 intention of making it more than the LAC 2015 one. By most recent reports the "negotiations" on it were Morey asking for a 2014 one and Ainge saying no over and over.

WES KOAST
12-19-2013, 04:14 PM
morey pulling out of the deal is just gamesmanship to gain leverage

WES KOAST
12-19-2013, 04:15 PM
like I posted earlier, I predicted asik will stay with Houston by their dec 19th deadline

ghettosean
12-19-2013, 04:19 PM
morey pulling out of the deal is just gamesmanship to gain leverage

What leverage does he really have now??? Everyone league wide knows that he needs to get rid of Asik because he's not happy coming off the bench. If anything Morey holding out gives him less leverage and if he goes back to Boston to get that deal Danny Ainge he is going to low ball him/not give him as much because Houston will look desperate....

If the Boston offer was legit then he should have took that deal but only time will tell if he fugged up or not.

Chronz
12-19-2013, 04:22 PM
Without Asik, they dont have the playoff run of last year. Without that run, does Harden get the same praise league wide? Does Howard want to join a team that becomes far removed from their last playoff appearance?

If the position the Rox are in is "shooting themselves in the foot" then we should all be so lucky, its a pretty great problem to have, that you have a center that you cant just give away for free and would rather wait it out.

I highly doubt the trades get worse, as you approach the deadline trade talks increase anyways, not trading Asik today just means the Rox have to make a single great deal as opposed to multiple minor ones. If they cant move him then I expect Asik to man up and play, he wont just sit out and hes the best backup C in the league.

Man the "insiders" are saying multiple teams were scared off by that 3rd year. I didn't say it, they did. They also said teams knew they had to move him so the deals weren't that great. Again this is what THEY are saying.

So if his value around the league is that low now, how exactly would it get better by the trade deadline?
I never contested some of that, just your claims.

ghettosean
12-19-2013, 04:29 PM
Some team will be more desperate and pay a slightly higher price. Rockets can always trade Asik in the offseason if they wish. Especially when there is more clarity about which picks are worth what. Because of Asik's contract, Houston will find it very difficult to get good value trading him.

I disagree the Rockets are the team that is desperate to unload him and they have made this known.... I don't see anyone giving face value knowing about Asik's/Houstons current situation if anything that gives other teams leverage not Houston in trade negotiations.

Tony_Starks
12-19-2013, 04:31 PM
You have to look at this way, most of the teams that would even consider making a deal with them are in tank mode. So if I'm tanking you expect me to not only take on Asiks overpaid salary but also give you one my picks in a deep draft? Oh and btw adding him will probably make the team not suck just enough to lower my lotto pick chances?

No way in hell.

2-ONE-5
12-19-2013, 04:48 PM
The offered Celtics deal already had a 1st rounder in it. The question was protection and which year of the pick.

Morey will get a 1st rounder and possibly more eventually. The only question is the details.

C's were really the only team in position to give up one but come deadline time they could be out of the Atlantic race and lose interest.

ackar
12-19-2013, 04:50 PM
like I posted earlier, I predicted asik will stay with Houston by their dec 19th deadline

I said that also Houston is their own worst enemy in this scenario. Could traded Asik for a lot during the off season.

Asik's better
12-19-2013, 04:52 PM
I disagree the Rockets are the team that is desperate to unload him and they have made this known.... I don't see anyone giving face value knowing about Asik's/Houstons current situation if anything that gives other teams leverage not Houston in trade negotiations.

Houston aren't desperate. They have always made it known that they would like to keep asik. The only desperate person in this whole story is asik. Houston would more than love to keep asik as a backup C.

FOBolous
12-19-2013, 04:53 PM
The Rockets are in no rush to trade him because the Rockets will be fine despite him. With how well Terrance Jones has been playing, it's not like we have a gaping hole on our roster we need to address. We have a good starting 5 and a good sixth man coming off the bench with an assortment of 3 pts shooters that can go off any given night. So no matter how much he sulks, we'll still be the #6 team on the NBA and our title chances doesn't deminish the more he sulks. As a Rockets fan, as far as I'm concerned, he can ride the bench for as long as it takes for us to find a good deal for him. Heck, I don't even care if we don't trade him by Dec 19th...cause like I said, we'll be fine with or without him.

tr3ymill3r
12-19-2013, 04:58 PM
Asik needs to stop being a little ***** and accept his role.

True Sports Fan
12-19-2013, 05:01 PM
I'll take him on the Kings :shrug:

mightybosstone
12-19-2013, 05:02 PM
The Rockets are in no rush to trade him because the Rockets will be fine despite him. With how well Terrance Jones has been playing, it's not like we have a gaping hole on our roster we need to address. We have a good starting 5 and a good sixth man coming off the bench with an assortment of 3 pts shooters that can go off any given nought. So no matter how much he sulks, we'll still be the #6 team on the NBA and our title chances doesn't deminish the more he sulks. As a Rockets fan, as far as I'm concerned, he can ride the bench for as long as it takes for us to find a good deal for him. Heck, I don't even care if we don't trade him by Dec 19th...cause like I said, we'll be fine with or without him.

Asik needs to stop being a little ***** and accept his role.
Ditto. I'm bummed that Houston couldn't find a taker for him, but the best scenario for Houston would be for Asik to just accept his role and help anchor the defense of that second unit. The Rockets have been a better basketball team when Asik is playing and coming off the bench, and I really hope he can appreciate that and continue to play his role until Morey finds him a home that nets the Rockets a better deal.

ghettosean
12-19-2013, 05:13 PM
Houston aren't desperate. They have always made it known that they would like to keep asik. The only desperate person in this whole story is asik. Houston would more than love to keep asik as a backup C.

Sure they would love to keep a happy Asik who is playing his best to be a backup C but that's not what Asik wants... Instead they have an unhappy backup who's going to drag his feet until he's gone. Though I agree Asik is desperate as well but Houston is just as desperate to unload him in the current scenario I mean they made there own deadline pretty much saying we need to unload him by this date.

ghettosean
12-19-2013, 05:15 PM
You have to look at this way, most of the teams that would even consider making a deal with them are in tank mode. So if I'm tanking you expect me to not only take on Asiks overpaid salary but also give you one my picks in a deep draft? Oh and btw adding him will probably make the team not suck just enough to lower my lotto pick chances?

No way in hell.


EXACTLY THIS x 100,000,000

FOBolous
12-19-2013, 05:18 PM
Ditto. I'm bummed that Houston couldn't find a taker for him, but the best scenario for Houston would be for Asik to just accept his role and help anchor the defense of that second unit. The Rockets have been a better basketball team when Asik is playing and coming off the bench, and I really hope he can appreciate that and continue to play his role until Morey finds him a home that nets the Rockets a better deal.

the only thing I'm bummed about is that I picked him up in my fantasy league expecting him to go back to his double-double ways but it looks like that's not happening anytime soon. I really could've used that boost in rebounds.

ChiSox219
12-19-2013, 05:32 PM
I hope Asik accepts role and the Rockets hold on to him. With Jones emerging the Rockets really dont have a pressing needs, I mean what can they get back thats more valuable to their team than a back up plan for when Dwight is in foul trouble or hurt?

astrosmaniac
12-19-2013, 05:35 PM
Sure they would love to keep a happy Asik who is playing his best to be a backup C but that's not what Asik wants... Instead they have an unhappy backup who's going to drag his feet until he's gone. Though I agree Asik is desperate as well but Houston is just as desperate to unload him in the current scenario I mean they made there own deadline pretty much saying we need to unload him by this date.

they set the deadline so that they could flip returning pieces if they wanted to. It wasn't "we have to deal him by the 19th". It was "IF we're going to deal him before the trade deadline, it will be by the 19th."

Did they want to deal him? sure. Are they desperate to do so? No, otherwise they would have done so today. If you have 6 teams expressing interest (and they did as of yesterday) and you are desperate, a deal will get made.

Heck, a dragging his feet Asik is still a great piece to have off the bench

hugepatsfan
12-19-2013, 05:43 PM
The Rockets are in no rush to trade him because the Rockets will be fine despite him. With how well Terrance Jones has been playing, it's not like we have a gaping hole on our roster we need to address. We have a good starting 5 and a good sixth man coming off the bench with an assortment of 3 pts shooters that can go off any given night. So no matter how much he sulks, we'll still be the #6 team on the NBA and our title chances doesn't deminish the more he sulks. As a Rockets fan, as far as I'm concerned, he can ride the bench for as long as it takes for us to find a good deal for him. Heck, I don't even care if we don't trade him by Dec 19th...cause like I said, we'll be fine with or without him.

Your team gets better by trading him for pieces at other positions though. As good as Asik is he's never going to be able to play much more than 15 mpg with Dwight there. At the end of the day, it's in the best interest of the Rockets to trade him even if the pieces coming back don't match his talent. That's the leverage other teams have over HOU. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you guys don't have a good roster as is. Dealing Asik makes you better though if you get pieces that aren't blocked from playing more than 15 mpg based on your roster.

Where I will agree with you is the timing factor. Dealing him by today is not a necessity. Heck, even dealing him by the trade deadline isn't. You guys could wait until the offseason or even next year's trading deadline. But make no mistake, Asik should most definitely be traded before his contract is up. If he isn't moved by then, Morey will have wasted a huge opportunity to upgrade your rotation. And that fact is never going to change between now and then which will always create leverage (at least so some degree) for other teams in negotiations.

astrosmaniac
12-19-2013, 06:03 PM
Your team gets better by trading him for pieces at other positions though. As good as Asik is he's never going to be able to play much more than 15 mpg with Dwight there. At the end of the day, it's in the best interest of the Rockets to trade him even if the pieces coming back don't match his talent. That's the leverage other teams have over HOU. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you guys don't have a good roster as is. Dealing Asik makes you better though if you get pieces that aren't blocked from playing more than 15 mpg based on your roster.

Where I will agree with you is the timing factor. Dealing him by today is not a necessity. Heck, even dealing him by the trade deadline isn't. You guys could wait until the offseason or even next year's trading deadline. But make no mistake, Asik should most definitely be traded before his contract is up. If he isn't moved by then, Morey will have wasted a huge opportunity to upgrade your rotation. And that fact is never going to change between now and then which will always create leverage (at least so some degree) for other teams in negotiations.

but the question become, is what you get in the trade a bigger upgrade than the drop off from asik (elite defensive and rebounding) to greg smith (or whoever else the backup C is). We saw what happened when we went from Asik in the game to smith last year (middle of the pack defense to last in the league per opponents PPP), and can safely assume a similar type of drop from howard to smith.

If indeed the best deal available was Lee, Bass, and a 2015 pick (as it was reported), the question becomes is lee a big enough upgrade at the backup 2 to justify the downgrade from asik to bass (the 2015 pick cant contribute until after Asik's deal runs up) in the mean time. Backup 2 guard is the only real "need" for the rockets at this time besides getting healthy, it's not like they have a ton of holes to fill

FOBolous
12-19-2013, 06:07 PM
Your team gets better by trading him for pieces at other positions though. As good as Asik is he's never going to be able to play much more than 15 mpg with Dwight there. At the end of the day, it's in the best interest of the Rockets to trade him even if the pieces coming back don't match his talent. That's the leverage other teams have over HOU. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you guys don't have a good roster as is. Dealing Asik makes you better though if you get pieces that aren't blocked from playing more than 15 mpg based on your roster.

Where I will agree with you is the timing factor. Dealing him by today is not a necessity. Heck, even dealing him by the trade deadline isn't. You guys could wait until the offseason or even next year's trading deadline. But make no mistake, Asik should most definitely be traded before his contract is up. If he isn't moved by then, Morey will have wasted a huge opportunity to upgrade your rotation. And that fact is never going to change between now and then which will always create leverage (at least so some degree) for other teams in negotiations.

no doubt. i WANT him traded so the Rockets can get deeper and better. i'm just saying that the Rockets aren't "desperate" to trade him like a lot of people are claiming. both the Rockets fan base and organization are perfectly content with Asik riding the bench until we find a good deal for him. and i'm glad Morey didn't panic and settled for less than what he wanted because by doing this...Morey made it to the clear to the league that the Rockets are NOT desperate by ANY measure. if you want him, either come to the table honestly and not try to take advantage of us or don't bother.

ghettosean
12-19-2013, 06:09 PM
they set the deadline so that they could flip returning pieces if they wanted to. It wasn't "we have to deal him by the 19th". It was "IF we're going to deal him before the trade deadline, it will be by the 19th."

Did they want to deal him? sure. Are they desperate to do so? No, otherwise they would have done so today. If you have 6 teams expressing interest (and they did as of yesterday) and you are desperate, a deal will get made.

Heck, a dragging his feet Asik is still a great piece to have off the bench

Agreed on your last point but I think he will become a distraction if not already.

hugepatsfan
12-19-2013, 06:15 PM
but the question become, is what you get in the trade a bigger upgrade than the drop off from asik (elite defensive and rebounding) to greg smith (or whoever else the backup C is). We saw what happened when we went from Asik in the game to smith last year (middle of the pack defense to last in the league per opponents PPP), and can safely assume a similar type of drop from howard to smith.

If indeed the best deal available was Lee, Bass, and a 2015 pick (as it was reported), the question becomes is lee a big enough upgrade at the backup 2 to justify the downgrade from asik to bass (the 2015 pick cant contribute until after Asik's deal runs up) in the mean time. Backup 2 guard is the only real "need" for the rockets at this time besides getting healthy, it's not like they have a ton of holes to fill

I don't think going from Asik to Bass is a drop off for the Rockets in their situation. Asik is only going to be a 15-20 mpg players in HOU with Dwight. For those minutes, yes Bass is a downgrade (in defense/rebounding at least - Bass a major upgrade on offense). Bass wouldn't just be taking those minutes though. He'd also be taking up the other minutes your backup bigs are getting at PF. That's another 15 minutes or so a game where he is a huge upgrade. So while I think Asik is clearly the better player, the structure of your team allows for Bass to play almost twice as much which makes him the better option for you guys IMO. Throw in a future pick and upgrade at backup SG and I really thought the deal was a pretty good haul for HOU.

My overall point is that while I agree Bass, Lee and the 2015 LAC pick isn't equal value for Asik I think it makes HOU a better team factoring in how much Dwight's presence limits the production Asik can bring. And as far as getting equal value, I don't think any team is going to be willing to pay that knowing HOU's situation. At the end of the day, the Rockets can turn Asik's salary slot into something a good deal more valuable even without getting max return and since they're playing for a title when push comes to shove the smart thing for them to do would be to cave. HOU doesn't need to do that until next year's trading deadline though.

5ass
12-19-2013, 07:14 PM
Ad that skill is worthless on the rockets.
The rockets system discourages mid range shot because they are statistically the worst to take. It's drive and score in the paint or hit a 3. Mid range is meaningless to them

No its not. I know you always favor the 3 from the midrange, so did SVG, thats mainly why he chose Anderson over Bass eventually. The thing is Bass is very efficient from midrange. Not mediocre.

Saddletramp
12-19-2013, 07:23 PM
The whole point of making this Dec 19th deadline was so Morey could flip whomever they acquired at the actual trade deadline. Morey probably figured that trading Lee and Bass probably wasn't going to bring in a whole lot so he probably figured that he might get a better deal at the actual deadline if someone's big gets hurt. Also, I'm glad he didn't back down to Ainge (if that's what happened).

Tony_Starks
12-19-2013, 07:57 PM
Sidenote: Darryl Morey just tweeted something about Asik NBA ballot. As in allstar ballot. Is this man on that Lamar Odom crack?

If I was Asik that would just piss me off more because he's being a Smartass....

shep33
12-19-2013, 08:01 PM
Sidenote: Darryl Morey just tweeted something about Asik NBA ballot. As in allstar ballot. Is this man on that Lamar Odom crack?

If I was Asik that would just piss me off more because he's being a Smartass....

I bet Morey would like this one back. He's orchestrated some great deals, but once they signed Howard, they should have traded Asik that next minute

Tony_Starks
12-19-2013, 08:17 PM
I bet Morey would like this one back. He's orchestrated some great deals, but once they signed Howard, they should have traded Asik that next minute

Yeah he dropped the ball on that one. I was reading a yahoo article about the whole deal and it basically said his value of Asik didn't match watch what others teams thought i.e. everyone else doesn't think he's as good as Morey does.

FOBolous
12-19-2013, 09:29 PM
Yeah he dropped the ball on that one. I was reading a yahoo article about the whole deal and it basically said his value of Asik didn't match watch what others teams thought i.e. everyone else doesn't think he's as good as Morey does.

why would Morey regret this deal? The Rockets wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without Asik. And if that didn't happen, the Rockets wouldn't have been considered an "up and coming" team and would have no chance of signing Dwight Howard. Plus it's not like the rockets will suffer any negative consequences for not trading Asik. The Rockets will continue to play well and contend whether Asik is traded or not.

76erEaglePhils
12-19-2013, 09:40 PM
why would Morey regret this deal? The Rockets wouldn't have made the playoffs last year without Asik. And if that didn't happen, the Rockets wouldn't have been considered an "up and coming" team and would have no chance of signing Dwight Howard. Plus it's not like the rockets will suffer any negative consequences for not trading Asik. The Rockets will continue to play well and contend whether Asik is traded or not.That's not the point teams around the league don't value him as much as the Rockets which is making it very difficult to move him.

NYMetros
12-19-2013, 11:44 PM
Bad move by the Rockets. Should have just took Bass Lee and a 1st

sunsfan88
12-20-2013, 06:54 AM
Asik has been moody – even insubordinate – over the Rockets' failure to trade him, and his reaction to Houston letting its self-imposed deadline pass without a trade could have an impact within the locker room.

Lol locker room drama just continues to find Dwight Howard :laugh:

RollingWave
12-20-2013, 07:21 AM
I don't think going from Asik to Bass is a drop off for the Rockets in their situation. Asik is only going to be a 15-20 mpg players in HOU with Dwight. For those minutes, yes Bass is a downgrade (in defense/rebounding at least - Bass a major upgrade on offense). Bass wouldn't just be taking those minutes though. He'd also be taking up the other minutes your backup bigs are getting at PF. That's another 15 minutes or so a game where he is a huge upgrade. So while I think Asik is clearly the better player, the structure of your team allows for Bass to play almost twice as much which makes him the better option for you guys IMO. Throw in a future pick and upgrade at backup SG and I really thought the deal was a pretty good haul for HOU.

My overall point is that while I agree Bass, Lee and the 2015 LAC pick isn't equal value for Asik I think it makes HOU a better team factoring in how much Dwight's presence limits the production Asik can bring. And as far as getting equal value, I don't think any team is going to be willing to pay that knowing HOU's situation. At the end of the day, the Rockets can turn Asik's salary slot into something a good deal more valuable even without getting max return and since they're playing for a title when push comes to shove the smart thing for them to do would be to cave. HOU doesn't need to do that until next year's trading deadline though.

Sure, replacing a massively positive backup center playing 15 min with a considerably negative PF for 20 min is a clear win for Houston.

Houston's barely worse this year when playing Asik than not, and he's almost always backing up Dwight after the first few games

Meanwhile, Boston as a team is around -4 whenever Bass is on the floor per 100 possession, where as they are +4 when he's not.

Bass is a negative asset in every sense of the word. The funny thing about bashing Asik's offensive play is that Bass has a much much worse offensive impact due to him taking all those mid range shots.

if it was just about the pick and shedding salary, they would have gone for Humphries instead, this trade was essentially Ainge asking Morey to give up Asik AND take on 2 negative contract (guys getting paid more than the minimum but providing only bit roles, and in Bass's case, doing it very poorly.) for 1 very likely late first. and whats worse is that Lee's contract runs longer.

You'd have to value Asik as a massive negative to take that deal, and all analyitical suggest he's basically the opposite of that.

With the way this whole saga developed, it's obvious that Houston hoped to keep him to start the season, only getting their hands forced by Asik's demand, the point remain that as long as Asik is willing to play along they certainly value him way more than all but a small group of other elite role players.

We'll see what happens, but Morey almost always ends up making the smarter move in the larger picture.

bagwell368
12-20-2013, 07:59 AM
Sure, replacing a massively positive backup center playing 15 min with a considerably negative PF for 20 min is a clear win for Houston.

I wasn't any fan of Bass, but this year he's been playing well - both in shooting and D. Moreover he fills a role that Asik does not, and could not even if he was motivated, which he may not be.


Meanwhile, Boston as a team is around -4 whenever Bass is on the floor per 100 possession, where as they are +4 when he's not.

Plus - minus - really? Try ORtg and DRtg.


Bass is a negative asset in every sense of the word. The funny thing about bashing Asik's offensive play is that Bass has a much much worse offensive impact due to him taking all those mid range shots.

Bass is right at the middle of the NBA for his 2PT%, and the top 1/4 of the NBA in FT% (Asik with a pathetic .641 vs Bass at .847. Bass has a 110 ORtg, top 1/4 of the NBA. Asik has a 102, at the 50% point in the NBA mostly buoyed by his elemental shooting touch within 3' of the hoop. Mr. Hands Asik has .8 AST per 36, and 2.3 TOV's vs Bass at 1.6 AST and 1.4 TOV per 36. Bass is clearly a more polished offensive player. So if he's a negative asset in every way what does that make Asik's offense?


if it was just about the pick and shedding salary, they would have gone for Humphries instead, this trade was essentially Ainge asking Morey to give up Asik AND take on 2 negative contract (guys getting paid more than the minimum but providing only bit roles, and in Bass's case, doing it very poorly.) for 1 very likely late first. and whats worse is that Lee's contract runs longer.

Lee is 19th in the NBA this year among players with 400 or more minutes with a massive .606 TS%. Lee is 3rd in the NBA in 3PT% with player with 30 or more attempts. His D is actually decent this year too.

It's fine to have an emotional response, but, when anyone ignores objective details in the bargain, they often make easily poked through arguments. Ciao.

p.s. You omit the large price tag Asik carries next year, the fact that his put back offense has to be worked around. Also the Rockets cannot deploy him to his best advantage since he's a back-up C and has not the chops or seemingly interest to be a decent PF.

2-ONE-5
12-20-2013, 12:12 PM
The whole point of making this Dec 19th deadline was so Morey could flip whomever they acquired at the actual trade deadline. Morey probably figured that trading Lee and Bass probably wasn't going to bring in a whole lot so he probably figured that he might get a better deal at the actual deadline if someone's big gets hurt. Also, I'm glad he didn't back down to Ainge (if that's what happened).

i think it was the other way around. look at the teams rumored to be in on Asik none of em really needed him.

Max.This
12-20-2013, 12:31 PM
i think it was the other way around. look at the teams rumored to be in on Asik none of em really needed him.

im sure morey realized that unless its a team that plans on tanking, they won't be able to give the value that morey expects to get for asik. Perhaps its not whether teams under value asik. They just want to take advantage of the situation

Jazzgear
12-20-2013, 01:48 PM
nothing lucky about it, it was carefully laid out plan that allowed them the flexibility and assets to pull the deal off and still field a quality team around said stars. Doing so while never getting the authority to tank either. And what "bonehead" decisions? Those are 2 quality players, that they no longer fill a need is a result of them pulling off bigger deals. Nobody cares about how asik is playing right now, everyone already knows what hes capable of. asik clearly is not worth a first rounder, in this draft, if you're a team drafting late, sadly those are the kind of teams the rockets are trying to avoid dealing with. They dont want asik locking down dwight in a series.

fixed

Jazzgear
12-20-2013, 02:08 PM
I don't think so. Reserve prices on auctions are very, very common.

Morey had a minimum price, it wasn't met, so he halted the auction. That doesn't hurt his credibility, if anything it helps his credibility in terms of establishing that when he says he wants a minimum of "X", GM's are going to know that he's serious.

Negotiators that say "This is my minimum or I walk!" who don't stick to it are looked at as push overs and not credible in terms of demands. Those who stick to a minimum are looked at as credible and serious.

If anything, this will weed out "tire kickers" in future negotiations.

None of that holds in this case, when selling with no leverage. You have a player who doesn't want to be there, has an albatross 3rd year balloon payment, and everyone knows your playing cards

Jazzgear
12-20-2013, 02:31 PM
Houston aren't desperate. They have always made it known that they would like to keep asik. The only desperate person in this whole story is asik. Houston would more than love to keep asik as a backup C.

Keeping a disgruntled player on an albatross contract is akin to getting .10 on the dollar; better off trading him for .50 on that dollar, don't you think?

rockets-fan
12-20-2013, 04:18 PM
Keeping a disgruntled player on an albatross contract is akin to getting .10 on the dollar; better off trading him for .50 on that dollar, don't you think?

You don't think asik knows that if he doesn't step up and play good ball no one will trade for him? The original deadline passed for him no more sitting out. If he wants to get traded he's going to have to play good basketball for someone to take on that third year. If this doesn't happen it's a win win for Houston. Just my opinion tho.

sunsfan88
12-20-2013, 06:41 PM
You don't think asik knows that if he doesn't step up and play good ball no one will trade for him? The original deadline passed for him no more sitting out. If he wants to get traded he's going to have to play good basketball for someone to take on that third year. If this doesn't happen it's a win win for Houston. Just my opinion tho.
It won't be a win win. Asik can just be disgruntled and be nuisance in the locker room, mess up the Rockets title aspirations, not give any effort in games and still get paid a ton of money by the Rockets.

You can have LeBron James on your team but if that's a disgruntled LeBron, it won't do you any good and will actually do quite the opposite.

torocan
12-20-2013, 07:09 PM
None of that holds in this case, when selling with no leverage. You have a player who doesn't want to be there, has an albatross 3rd year balloon payment, and everyone knows your playing cards

Except it does hold in this case for several reasons.

-Establishing credibility isn't a one-off. Even if he doesn't get great value for Asik in the end, that credibility will carry over to future negotiations. This isn't the first or last trade that Morey will be working, and that credibility will pay off in future trades.
-That "albatross" contract isn't an albatross to Houston. It's a "sunken" cost. They have him for $5M/year for the first 2 years which is a bargain. The last year simply equalizes the amount they pay out. The only question is how much of the deferred payment comes out of their own pocket.
-Knowing the playing cards is a temporary situation. As teams change, performance changes, and the trade deadline moves the cards change. Just ask the Knicks how much they value a PG in trade today versus 4 weeks ago. Or ask the Lakers the same question. We don't know what the *future* market for centers will be. As the play off race shakes out and injuries accumulate, his value will change.

Morey is playing the "long" game here. He knows he has until February to work a deal, so pulling his chips off the table until some new players sit down is simply smart business. Maybe he won't get a better deal, but it's unlikely he'll get a worse one over the next 2 months. Nominal downside, significant upside.

As for Asik being disgruntled, I doubt he'll play poorly. He recently changed agents to Arn Tellem, and an agent like Tellem will be reminding him that not only will his trade value be impacted, but he goes into next year as an expiring contract. If Asik wants to get paid, he'll at least have to play reasonably well.

Unlike Asik's previous agent, I suspect Tellem will be able to keep him from going off the proverbial cliff.

Jazzgear
12-20-2013, 08:26 PM
Except it does hold in this case for several reasons.

-Establishing credibility isn't a one-off. Even if he doesn't get great value for Asik in the end, that credibility will carry over to future negotiations. This isn't the first or last trade that Morey will be working, and that credibility will pay off in future trades.
-That "albatross" contract isn't an albatross to Houston. It's a "sunken" cost. They have him for $5M/year for the first 2 years which is a bargain. The last year simply equalizes the amount they pay out. The only question is how much of the deferred payment comes out of their own pocket.
-Knowing the playing cards is a temporary situation. As teams change, performance changes, and the trade deadline moves the cards change. Just ask the Knicks how much they value a PG in trade today versus 4 weeks ago. Or ask the Lakers the same question. We don't know what the *future* market for centers will be. As the play off race shakes out and injuries accumulate, his value will change.

Morey is playing the "long" game here. He knows he has until February to work a deal, so pulling his chips off the table until some new players sit down is simply smart business. Maybe he won't get a better deal, but it's unlikely he'll get a worse one over the next 2 months. Nominal downside, significant upside.

As for Asik being disgruntled, I doubt he'll play poorly. He recently changed agents to Arn Tellem, and an agent like Tellem will be reminding him that not only will his trade value be impacted, but he goes into next year as an expiring contract. If Asik wants to get paid, he'll at least have to play reasonably well.

Unlike Asik's previous agent, I suspect Tellem will be able to keep him from going off the proverbial cliff.


The only credibility tht matters in negotiations is having a highly desirable asset. Asik, given his skill and current contract, is not a highly desirable asset.....period.

Asik's better
12-20-2013, 08:34 PM
It won't be a win win. Asik can just be disgruntled and be nuisance in the locker room, mess up the Rockets title aspirations, not give any effort in games and still get paid a ton of money by the Rockets.

You can have LeBron James on your team but if that's a disgruntled LeBron, it won't do you any good and will actually do quite the opposite.

Please, the rockets lockeroom had to deal with Royce White all of last season, I think they can handle asik

sunsfan88
12-21-2013, 04:58 AM
Please, the rockets lockeroom had to deal with Royce White all of last season, I think they can handle asik
White wasn't in the locker room though, he was always home cause he couldn't play or whatever. This is way different.

Asik's better
12-21-2013, 07:41 AM
White wasn't in the locker room though, he was always home cause he couldn't play or whatever. This is way different.

Yeah it is way different, asik is less disruptive to the lockeroom chemistry.

rockets-fan
12-21-2013, 02:29 PM
It won't be a win win. Asik can just be disgruntled and be nuisance in the locker room, mess up the Rockets title aspirations, not give any effort in games and still get paid a ton of money by the Rockets.

You can have LeBron James on your team but if that's a disgruntled LeBron, it won't do you any good and will actually do quite the opposite.

I get what your saying, and it's a valid point, but in my opinion, he doesn't just care about money he wants to play more than anything, start for a team above anything else. And if he wants to get traded, if he wants a team to be willing to pay that third year, and start for them, he has to show he is worth it because clearly one season wasn't enough. He has to prove himself and I think he will between now and the trade deadline. Again all just opinions really

astrosmaniac
12-21-2013, 09:17 PM
I mean Asik has been "disgruntled" all season, but it hasn't affected his play. His play suffered when they tried to do the twin towers due to spacing issues, but after going to the bench he played well. So i don't see it affecting his play between now and the trade deadline.

mightybosstone
12-21-2013, 09:22 PM
Keeping a disgruntled player on an albatross contract is akin to getting .10 on the dollar; better off trading him for .50 on that dollar, don't you think?


The only credibility tht matters in negotiations is having a highly desirable asset. Asik, given his skill and current contract, is not a highly desirable asset.....period.

You are not an elite NBA GM who is a few months removed from constructing one of the best rosters in the league. Daryl Morey. I'll trust his judgment over yours and not think twice about it, and I'm pretty sure any competent NBA fan would as well.

2-ONE-5
12-21-2013, 11:34 PM
dont have to be a guru to know Asik holds way less value then Morey thinks he has

torocan
12-21-2013, 11:48 PM
dont have to be a guru to know Asik holds way less value then Morey thinks he has

That value is in flux. Lopez out for the season... and we still have 2 months to the trade deadline.

KniCks4LiFe
12-21-2013, 11:53 PM
dont have to be a guru to know Asik holds way less value then Morey thinks he has

that's an obvious one. I think Morey's main priority is get both Lin + Asik's contract out of HOU. He's posing that he likes them, in the grand scheme realizes he doesn't need them and if he can get cap space to land Rondo, he'd make it happen.

Another thing peeps forget, Chris Bosh's hometown is Dallas, Tx. He has a player option he can always decline and end up going home and teaming up wit Harden and Howard if the Roxs get that cap space.

2-ONE-5
12-22-2013, 12:30 AM
That value is in flux. Lopez out for the season... and we still have 2 months to the trade deadline.

and the Nets have no picks to trade for like 5 years and nothing the Rockets want or need.

torocan
12-22-2013, 12:34 AM
and the Nets have no picks to trade for like 5 years and nothing the Rockets want or need.

2020 and 2022 picks, and that doesn't stop them from working a 3rd team into a trade.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 12:53 AM
and the Nets have no picks to trade for like 5 years and nothing the Rockets want or need.

sit down and really think about this. Lin and Asik have poison pill contracts on the back end. You really think an NBA team is not only taking those contracts but giving away 1st rd. picks on top of it?

2-ONE-5
12-22-2013, 01:28 PM
sit down and really think about this. Lin and Asik have poison pill contracts on the back end. You really think an NBA team is not only taking those contracts but giving away 1st rd. picks on top of it?

um no. that is what im saying on top of BKN having no assets anyway. we are on the page here but i feel like you are disagreeing with me?

2-ONE-5
12-22-2013, 01:29 PM
2020 and 2022 picks, and that doesn't stop them from working a 3rd team into a trade.

they can work a third team into all they want but no team is moving a 1st round pick for Asik or anyone on the Nets.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 01:34 PM
Morey will rape Billy King on a deal, just wait for it to happen.

waveycrockett
12-22-2013, 01:40 PM
Morey will rape Billy King on a deal, just wait for it to happen.
pretty much. Unless Billy King can pull an upset and KO morey.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 01:42 PM
um no. that is what im saying on top of BKN having no assets anyway. we are on the page here but i feel like you are disagreeing with me?

The market for Asik for picks is not there.

The market for Lin for picks is not there.

This is going to cause 2 things.

1. Morey has to settle w/ getting a young talent

2. Morey decides to settle for cap space to purchase future talent summer 2014

Paul Pierce is an expiring contract to a team looking to stay under the cap and purchase talent.

Morey right now is weighing the options where his Rockets team will go as presently constructed in the West. It's talented but it ain't no championship roster. If you don't think he's frothing at the thought of cap space to make

Rondo
Harden
Parsons
Jones
Howard

happen then IDK what to tell you.

Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik have a combined $28M for 2014 on their contracts alone. It's not about a name or young asset right now for HOU. It's about getting $28M off your cap to get Rajon Rondo on your roster in 2014.

Paul Pierce's contract is an asset to making this happen. What part of that don't you get.

BOS isn't giving what you want. They are rebuilding and not taking on $28M to better another team.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 01:47 PM
Morey will rape Billy King on a deal, just wait for it to happen.

I think he definitely can [there's no reason to think he can't after being raped 4 times in the last 2 yrs.]. I just don't think he will. New York is all over this. Everyone is watching Billy King and expecting him to f' up. Usually that's when it doesn't happen.

I think in the end both teams will settle

Asik + Lin for PP [$15M] + Bogdonavic + pick or [player like Tayor or Shengahlia]

Why Houston does it. Simple. No one is taking Lin + Asik's contract. No one is exchanging picks for them. We've yet to see a team want to do that. The Nets have what HOU needs a young asset and expiring contract leading them to get what they want in the long scheme.

They aren't getting D-Will, that ship has left the harbor. Blatche isn't going anywhere. Everyone else is likely for sale. Morey decides to stay put it only minimizes the chances of someone taking Lin + Asik, which everyone in the league is against doing [unless the receiving team is desperate, enter the Nets]

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 01:52 PM
i saw somewhere that before Lopez got injured, Nets were asking for both Lin and Asik already. Rockets were asking for DWill then.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 01:58 PM
i saw somewhere that before Lopez got injured, Nets were asking for both Lin and Asik already. Rockets were asking for DWill then.

I know I read that report. I thought of that long before. When DWill was playing like sh**. But now? the Nets aren't making that deal. You gotta add something more than Lin + Asik to make that happen. To make King release a star guard from NY, it's just not conceivable. Plus you gotta remember the 2 guys coming in are making $28M in 2014, added to the contracts wit Joe Johnson and Brook Lopez.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 02:07 PM
I know I read that report. I thought of that long before. When DWill was playing like sh**. But now? the Nets aren't making that deal. You gotta add something more than Lin + Asik to make that happen. To make King release a star guard from NY, it's just not conceivable. Plus you gotta remember the 2 guys coming in are making $28M in 2014, added to the contracts wit Joe Johnson and Brook Lopez.

but the thing is, those two will be expiring contracts next year. DWill's deal will be just on it's third year plus you have Pierce's contract expired and have another expiring deal with KG. if they want to have flexibility for the future and make themselves competitive this season, they'll have to do a DWill for Lin and Asik although it wouldn't be a popular with people in NY.

shep33
12-22-2013, 02:12 PM
Brooklyn would be stupid to trade for asik... morey is going to set them back another decade after this deal

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 02:15 PM
but the thing is, those two will be expiring contracts next year. DWill's deal will be just on it's third year plus you have Pierce's contract expired and have another expiring deal with KG. if they want to have flexibility for the future and make themselves competitive this season, they'll have to do a DWill for Lin and Asik although it wouldn't be a popular with people in NY.

I get that they are. But they but that will hold them for another year. When a team takes on $28M they expect a return in their investment. You can't just say, oh here's an allstar guard for what could be a potential 6th man in Lin and here's Asik who's a serviceable starting center. They aren't dealing DWill unless he demands to leave. Which has yet to happen. And even if they did, I think they'd get better player combos for that price. Not to slight Asik + Lin.. but this is a business.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 02:16 PM
Brooklyn would be stupid to trade for asik... morey is going to set them back another decade after this deal
hey
on the contrary, if King would be smart with his deal with Houston, they might have some flexibility in 2014 even 2015 if they agree to deal Williams for Asik and Lin.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 02:21 PM
Brooklyn would be stupid to trade for asik... morey is going to set them back another decade after this deal

Not necessarily, again it's not about adding Asik, it's about what else w/o giving up too much assets. If Brooklyn were to rid of contracts like PP + KG, you still have JJ's 23M, DWill's 19M, Lopez's 15M, that's $57M right there that you are stuck with. With no picks, no future asset, no flexibility.

Brooklyn's job right now should be to get Asik + Lin. They need to add depth, young depth. And potential assets in their 2014 contracts. Then having this + $57M in the others, doesn't hurt so much.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 02:21 PM
I get that they are. But they but that will hold them for another year. When a team takes on $28M they expect a return in their investment. You can't just say, oh here's an allstar guard for what could be a potential 6th man in Lin and here's Asik who's a serviceable starting center. They aren't dealing DWill unless he demands to leave. Which has yet to happen. And even if they did, I think they'd get better player combos for that price. Not to slight Asik + Lin.. but this is a business.

Lin, Asik, Jones and a protected 1st?

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 02:24 PM
Lin, Asik, Jones and a protected 1st?

see now you're getting them to think.

waveycrockett
12-22-2013, 02:30 PM
hey
on the contrary, if King would be smart with his deal with Houston, they might have some flexibility in 2014 even 2015 if they agree to deal Williams for Asik and Lin.

Nets wont even consider dealing Deron for Asik and Lin that makes absolutely no sense.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 02:32 PM
see now you're getting them to think. didn't really like to put Jones in there but i feel he can be replaced. i think Houston will go a long way with a ball dominant guard like DWill rather than Harden.

Harden is a tremendous talent but i feel from time to time he hold down this team's potential with his iso's and shot selection. if he can be the Harden from OKC and be uber efficient, then Houston will be a hard out on the playoffs.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 02:35 PM
Nets wont even consider dealing Deron for Asik and Lin that makes absolutely no sense.

honest question, do you really feel that the Nets will compete on how they are constructed now?

waveycrockett
12-22-2013, 02:36 PM
Mikhail Prokorhov would personally come down to the Barclays and slap the taste out of Billy King's mouth if he were to trade Brooklyn's marquee player.

waveycrockett
12-22-2013, 02:37 PM
honest question, do you really feel that the Nets will compete on how they are constructed now?

Thats irrelevant. They will not do a complete rebuild with the amount of money at stake. Asik and Lin do nothing for the Nets if it means losing D.Will.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Thats irrelevant. They will not do a complete rebuild with the amount of money at stake. Asik and Lin do nothing for the Nets if it means losing D.Will. Lin, Asik, a protected 1st and Jones for DWill?

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 02:45 PM
I do think the Nets would move DWill for a Lin + Asik package tho. And here's why. They did initiate conversations for Lin + Asik. They are the only team desperate to take both on. It does bring flexibility and sell the fanbase on a youth movement for the future if they add a T.Jones in this deal and a pick.

BTW Pat Beverley is out 4-6 weeks wit a broken hand. Just came over the wire.

waveycrockett
12-22-2013, 02:48 PM
Lin, Asik, a protected 1st and Jones for DWill?

They wouldn't do it unless a big name was involved back. Wayyyy too much money and marketing put behind DWILL and the Barclays center to trade him for relative no names even if Basketball wise the move makes sense. It would be like James Harden going down for the season and Rockets trading Dwight Howard to find someone to replace Harden at SG.

waveycrockett
12-22-2013, 02:49 PM
I do think the Nets would move DWill for a Lin + Asik package tho. And here's why. They did initiate conversations for Lin + Asik. They are the only team desperate to take both on. It does bring flexibility and sell the fanbase on a youth movement for the future if they add a T.Jones in this deal and a pick.

BTW Pat Beverley is out 4-6 weeks wit a broken hand. Just came over the wire.

They checked in on Lin and Asik. All reports were last week they kicked the tires on Asik and never intended to get it on a trade. Does not mean they were open to shopping Dwill.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 02:52 PM
They wouldn't do it unless a big name was involved back. Wayyyy too much money and marketing put behind DWILL and the Barclays center to trade him for relative no names even if Basketball wise the move makes sense. It would be like James Harden going down for the season and Rockets trading Dwight Howard to find someone to replace Harden at SG.

You know the money they could make off Lin? you want somebody that will generate talk, and grab back pages in NY. That's the guy.

if they were to add a protected 1st and Terrence Jones, you kind of should make that deal. You're not a championship roster this season. Brook Lopez's injury can also happen again. So in exchange you do get flexibility, the key is can they get Jones + a pick in this deal w/ Asik + Lin. You have to go w/ the thought Lopez's career could be ****ed. You can't risk that. You need depth, this adds it. This also adds media attention. DWill for his time in Brooklyn hasn't generated any type of buzz other than the PO series vs Chicago. So here's where you are. Your ideal move for young assets + flexibility + depth and exposure. What do you do?

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 02:52 PM
They wouldn't do it unless a big name was involved back. Wayyyy too much money and marketing put behind DWILL and the Barclays center to trade him for relative no names even if Basketball wise the move makes sense. It would be like James Harden going down for the season and Rockets trading Dwight Howard to find someone to replace Harden at SG.

but if King's job was on the line and he needs to make some moves, this will be their best in my opinion. Morey will not take anything less than that. he knows the Nets are desperate.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 03:07 PM
Putting my GM hat on it works for both teams.

Lin [pisses off Dolan, b/c back pages will be about Lin]
JJ
AA
KG
Asik

bench

Livingston
Mirza
Terry
Pierce
Blatche
Jones
Plumlee

Rockets roster

DWill
Harden
Parsons
[PF]
Howard

bench

Beverley
Casppi
Garcia
Monti
Smith

nycericanguy
12-22-2013, 03:08 PM
Now that deal makes some sense...

Deron has fallen off, he's owed HUGE money until like 2018. His ankles look like they'll never be the same...

If I were the Nets i'd be ALL OVER a Deron for Asik & Lin centered deal. They would be much faster, younger, and better defensively. I mean really, does anyone think Lin can't put up the numbers Deron has in BK? Lin could average 17 & 7 on that team on solid efficiency.

The Rockets though, I wouldn't do it, remember Parsons is going to command BIG MONEY soon, I'm not sure they want to pay huge contracts to Deron, Harden, Parsons AND Howard. That's a lot to ask.

Lin & Asik are easily moveable if they really need to, they just want deals to make them better. But if they needed to go the "dump" route I'm sure teams would line up to get either of those, especially Asik. It's not like they have long term deals.

5ass
12-22-2013, 03:13 PM
stupid deal for Houston. They're better off trading Asik and Lin somewhere else. Or even keeping Lin.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 03:14 PM
Putting my GM hat on it works for both teams.

Lin [pisses off Dolan, b/c back pages will be about Lin]
JJ
AA
KG
Asik

bench

Livingston
Mirza
Terry
Pierce
Blatche
Jones
Plumlee

Rockets roster

DWill
Harden
Parsons
[PF]
Howard

bench

Beverley
Casppi
Garcia
Monti
Smith

u forgot about AK47.

ill put Smith on that vacant PF position

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 03:16 PM
Now that deal makes some sense...

Deron has fallen off, he's owed HUGE money until like 2018. His ankles look like they'll never be the same...

If I were the Nets i'd be ALL OVER a Deron for Asik & Lin centered deal. They would be much faster, younger, and better defensively. I mean really, does anyone think Lin can't put up the numbers Deron has in BK? Lin could average 17 & 7 on that team on solid efficiency.

The Rockets though, I wouldn't do it, remember Parsons is going to command BIG MONEY soon, I'm not sure they want to pay huge contracts to Deron, Harden, Parsons AND Howard. That's a lot to ask.

Lin & Asik are easily moveable if they really need to, they just want deals to make them better. But if they needed to go the "dump" route I'm sure teams would line up to get either of those, especially Asik. It's not like they have long term deals.

Les said that he's willing to go over the luxury tax if it means he'll have a championship team.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 03:18 PM
u forgot about AK47.

ill put Smith on that vacant PF position

I don't expect to see him in the NBA for awhile. WPP.

True.

I think if you're serious about making this happen you add Jones + pick, they might even do it just for Jones as the add in. But knowing Morey he'll prolly attempt to fleece the Nets. So it's up to Billy King to know how much his player really is worth to a team.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 03:19 PM
stupid deal for Houston. They're better off trading Asik and Lin somewhere else. Or even keeping Lin. i also did questions some of Morey's past deal, i wouldn't start to question him again though.

nycericanguy
12-22-2013, 03:23 PM
Les said that he's willing to go over the luxury tax if it means he'll have a championship team.

I'm sure he is... but having 4 guys basically making Max money is asking a lot. They would have an INSANE payroll.

And if Deron didn't work out they'd be stuck with a massive contract.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 03:24 PM
stupid deal for Houston. They're better off trading Asik and Lin somewhere else. Or even keeping Lin.

Explain?

you know Lin + Harden don't work together. Both need the ball, well more like Harden won't give it up and Lin is too nice to tell him to pass it. He's trying to fit in. And technically he's the better shooter.

Who's trying to get both Lin + Asik? give me the team. LAL ain't. They want to be players in FA.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 03:26 PM
I'm sure he is... but having 4 guys basically making Max money is asking a lot. They would have an INSANE payroll.

And if Deron didn't work out they'd be stuck with a massive contract.

yes but i do have ton of faith on Morey. every deals that Morey does are calculated and not being done on impulse.

5ass
12-22-2013, 03:26 PM
Explain?

you know Lin + Harden don't work together. Both need the ball, well more like Harden won't give it up and Lin is too nice to tell him to pass it. He's trying to fit in. And technically he's the better shooter.

Who's trying to get both Lin + Asik? give me the team. LAL ain't. They want to be players in FA.

Well beverley fits well with harden and Lin should be used off the bench as a 6th man. Asik is easily moveable.

5ass
12-22-2013, 03:28 PM
i also did questions some of Morey's past deal, i wouldn't start to question him again though.

I was talking about the trade posted above me. I dont question morey, he's obviously one of the best GMs and a very smart guy.

waveycrockett
12-22-2013, 03:29 PM
but if King's job was on the line and he needs to make some moves, this will be their best in my opinion. Morey will not take anything less than that. he knows the Nets are desperate.
They are not desperate enough to trade there best player for HOU's backups. I'm sorry

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 03:31 PM
Well beverley fits well with harden and Lin should be used off the bench as a 6th man. Asik is easily moveable.

Beverley is out 4-6 weeks. They don't really use Lin, Beverley and Harden well. It's overloaded to sporadic use of Lin, and overly too much of Beverley. Asik isn't easily moveable, he was offered in trades and still no return.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 03:33 PM
They are not desperate enough to trade there best player for HOU's backups. I'm sorry

that back up would be the Nets most efficient starter at 24.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 03:33 PM
They are not desperate enough to trade there best player for HOU's backups. I'm sorry

i don't think the Nets have the upper hand though. we will see. i don't think Morey will just settle for PP's expiring plus a young player for example Plumlee.

nycericanguy
12-22-2013, 03:38 PM
Beverley is out 4-6 weeks. They don't really use Lin, Beverley and Harden well. It's overloaded to sporadic use of Lin, and overly too much of Beverley. Asik isn't easily moveable, he was offered in trades and still no return.


that's because HOU isn't looking to DUMP Asik, they want good players and draft picks in return.

If they just needed up dump his salary like TOR did with Gay I'm sure half the NBA would gladly take him.

I'd easily give up Shump, Bargs & JR for Asik in a heartbeat.

Heck I'd do Chandler even for Asik & Lin.

eternal slumber
12-22-2013, 03:39 PM
They are not desperate enough to trade there best player for HOU's backups. I'm sorry

but Lin and Asik aren't your typical back ups.

Lin can put up numbers when he gets enough floor burn and Asik can start for at least half of the teams in the league. Asik is only a back up because Houston have Howard.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 03:45 PM
[/B]

that's because HOU isn't looking to DUMP Asik, they want good players and draft picks in return.

hence what I said. The market isn't there. No one is trading a pick w/ this upcoming draft for Asik. He also has a $14M to cover next season and is a FA.


If they just needed up dump his salary like TOR did with Gay I'm sure half the NBA would gladly take him.

But 1/2 the NBA doesn't have the contracts to dump off.


I'd easily give up Shump, Bargs & JR for Asik in a heartbeat.

But HOU has no need for Bargs or JR. Also Shump's value is at it's lowest.


Heck I'd do Chandler even for Asik & Lin.

you would. They wouldn't, otherwise it defeats the purpose of having Dwight Howard. Unless Chandler wants to come off the bench for them.

2-ONE-5
12-22-2013, 03:56 PM
The market for Asik for picks is not there.

The market for Lin for picks is not there.

This is going to cause 2 things.

1. Morey has to settle w/ getting a young talent

2. Morey decides to settle for cap space to purchase future talent summer 2014

Paul Pierce is an expiring contract to a team looking to stay under the cap and purchase talent.

Morey right now is weighing the options where his Rockets team will go as presently constructed in the West. It's talented but it ain't no championship roster. If you don't think he's frothing at the thought of cap space to make

Rondo
Harden
Parsons
Jones
Howard

happen then IDK what to tell you.

Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik have a combined $28M for 2014 on their contracts alone. It's not about a name or young asset right now for HOU. It's about getting $28M off your cap to get Rajon Rondo on your roster in 2014.

Paul Pierce's contract is an asset to making this happen. What part of that don't you get.

BOS isn't giving what you want. They are rebuilding and not taking on $28M to better another team.

dude you are just rambling i hae no idea what you are talking about. Asik has little value, NETs have 0 assets thats really all there is to it

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 04:01 PM
dude you are just rambling i hae no idea what you are talking about. Asik has little value, NETs have 0 assets thats really all there is to it

you're just looking to insult posters homie, go fish or something. We're actually having logical conversations here, that is until you came around here.

nycericanguy
12-22-2013, 04:49 PM
hence what I said. The market isn't there. No one is trading a pick w/ this upcoming draft for Asik. He also has a $14M to cover next season and is a FA.



But 1/2 the NBA doesn't have the contracts to dump off.



But HOU has no need for Bargs or JR. Also Shump's value is at it's lowest.



you would. They wouldn't, otherwise it defeats the purpose of having Dwight Howard. Unless Chandler wants to come off the bench for them.

You took that post way too literal... I wasn't saying KNicks or HOU would make those deals. I was saying that to show how much value they have.

I sure as hell wouldn't trade Chandler or Shump for nobody's.

And what contracts to match? $8.4m is a very easy contract to match. Why wouldn't half the league be able to match?

And regardless of what year the pick is, HOU can easily get a 1st for Asik and then some.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 05:00 PM
You took that post way too literal... I wasn't saying KNicks or HOU would make those deals. I was saying that to show how much value they have.

I sure as hell wouldn't trade Chandler or Shump for nobody's.

And what contracts to match? $8.4m is a very easy contract to match. Why wouldn't half the league be able to match?

And regardless of what year the pick is, HOU can easily get a 1st for Asik and then some.

Yeh I thought you were serious. :laugh2: I see.

True.

1/2 the league wouldn't match those contracts to take an Asik. Find me the expirings of 8.4M in the league this season that have been offered lately, not many.

No they can't. We have yet to see one offered. You're not releasing a 1st rd. pick for 2 yrs. of Asik. What team is crazy enough to do that?

5ass
12-22-2013, 05:04 PM
Beverley is out 4-6 weeks. They don't really use Lin, Beverley and Harden well. It's overloaded to sporadic use of Lin, and overly too much of Beverley. Asik isn't easily moveable, he was offered in trades and still no return.

Asik hasnt been moved yet because Morey was being stubborn, if he was adamant on moving him, Asik would've been gone a long time ago.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 05:06 PM
Asik hasnt been moved yet because Morey was being stubborn, if he was adamant on moving him, Asik would've been gone a long time ago.

name me the team that made the offer.

nycericanguy
12-22-2013, 05:07 PM
Yeh I thought you were serious. :laugh2: I see.

True.

1/2 the league wouldn't match those contracts to take an Asik. Find me the expirings of 8.4M in the league this season that have been offered lately, not many.

No they can't. We have yet to see one offered. You're not releasing a 1st rd. pick for 2 yrs. of Asik. What team is crazy enough to do that?

Why does it have to expiring? Bass & Lee have like 3 years left on their deals and HOU was interested. Just about every rumor thrown out there, (ryan anderson, Thad Young...Bass...etc) none has been an expiring.

BOS already offered a 1st reportedly, but HOU wanted the pick THIS year. Regardless we don't know who's offered what, but Asik is def worth a 1st rounder unless you place some crazy value on 1st round picks. I mean a 34 year old Luis freakin Scola netted PHO 2 1st rounders, including one in the 2014 draft.

KniCks4LiFe
12-22-2013, 05:13 PM
Why does it have to expiring? Bass & Lee have like 3 years left on their deals and HOU was interested. Just about every rumor thrown out there, (ryan anderson, Thad Young...Bass...etc) none has been an expiring.

BOS already offered a 1st reportedly, but HOU wanted the pick THIS year. Regardless we don't know who's offered what, but Asik is def worth a 1st rounder unless you place some crazy value on 1st round picks. I mean a 34 year old Luis freakin Scola netted PHO 2 1st rounders, including one in the 2014 draft.

I doubt that's a deal Morey wanted. Thad Young was the only legit rumor w/ legs to it. [and no pick was involved]. Ryan Anderson wasn't.

Reportedly, doubt it was true. In 2014's draft yes. PHX was smart.

2-ONE-5
12-22-2013, 05:49 PM
you're just looking to insult posters homie, go fish or something. We're actually having logical conversations here, that is until you came around here.

you quoted me yesterday and came at me when we are on the same page on this. learn how to read or something.

nyknicks1969
12-22-2013, 05:53 PM
Sure, replacing a massively positive backup center playing 15 min with a considerably negative PF for 20 min is a clear win for Houston.

Houston's barely worse this year when playing Asik than not, and he's almost always backing up Dwight after the first few games

Meanwhile, Boston as a team is around -4 whenever Bass is on the floor per 100 possession, where as they are +4 when he's not.

Bass is a negative asset in every sense of the word. The funny thing about bashing Asik's offensive play is that Bass has a much much worse offensive impact due to him taking all those mid range shots.

if it was just about the pick and shedding salary, they would have gone for Humphries instead, this trade was essentially Ainge asking Morey to give up Asik AND take on 2 negative contract (guys getting paid more than the minimum but providing only bit roles, and in Bass's case, doing it very poorly.) for 1 very likely late first. and whats worse is that Lee's contract runs longer.

You'd have to value Asik as a massive negative to take that deal, and all analyitical suggest he's basically the opposite of that.

With the way this whole saga developed, it's obvious that Houston hoped to keep him to start the season, only getting their hands forced by Asik's demand, the point remain that as long as Asik is willing to play along they certainly value him way more than all but a small group of other elite role players.

We'll see what happens, but Morey almost always ends up making the smarter move in the larger picture.

How many NBA Championships does he have????

I mean, I like the guy, but let us be real.

To win in the NBA you need to get lucky and pick 1/2/3 in a loaded draft and pray the guy develops

5ass
12-22-2013, 05:57 PM
I doubt that's a deal Morey wanted. Thad Young was the only legit rumor w/ legs to it. [and no pick was involved]. Ryan Anderson wasn't.

Reportedly, doubt it was true. In 2014's draft yes. PHX was smart.

dude do u have any sources or are you going to keep saying nonsense? ur acting s if u were with Morey making those calls. Asik is a damn good starter, almost any playoff contender team would love him. Morey is trying to find the right situation to get the most out of it, while ensuring he doesnt go to a team that can cause a threat to them. Thats really why he hasnt been moved yet.

Asik's better
12-22-2013, 07:51 PM
name me the team that made the offer.

Boston

nycericanguy
12-22-2013, 09:05 PM
dude do u have any sources or are you going to keep saying nonsense? ur acting s if u were with Morey making those calls. Asik is a damn good starter, almost any playoff contender team would love him. Morey is trying to find the right situation to get the most out of it, while ensuring he doesnt go to a team that can cause a threat to them. Thats really why he hasnt been moved yet.

agreed... I hate when people act like they know all the offers GM's get...lol.

Teams usually leak what they WANT to leak or want the media to know

When the Knicks traded for Bargs there wasn't a word about it until it was done, and they had been talking for 3 weeks.

I'm sure plenty of teams have offered some kind of 1st for Asik

SouthSideRookie
12-23-2013, 01:00 AM
dude you are just rambling i hae no idea what you are talking about. Asik has little value, NETs have 0 assets thats really all there is to it

Asik has plenty of value. The problem is that teams that would likely pay a premium for his services are teams that are contenders. Morey wasn't going to trade Asik to OKC or Portland for example, two rumored teams that had supposed interest but are both western conference teams.

Boston and Philly were trying to buy low, you want to guess what their next move would have likely been. Move Asik at the deadline to one of those contending teams that would be willing to give up a better package than what Boston was giving Houston for Asik.

Morey ain't no dummy.

2-ONE-5
12-23-2013, 10:59 AM
Asik has plenty of value. The problem is that teams that would likely pay a premium for his services are teams that are contenders. Morey wasn't going to trade Asik to OKC or Portland for example, two rumored teams that had supposed interest but are both western conference teams.

Boston and Philly were trying to buy low, you want to guess what their next move would have likely been. Move Asik at the deadline to one of those contending teams that would be willing to give up a better package than what Boston was giving Houston for Asik.

Morey ain't no dummy.

no contender is gonna give up what Houston wants and a team like OKC isnt going to take that 15 mil cap hit next year for Asik either. The league knows Morey wants to move Asik and that hes not happy there is very little leverage there especiually while Asik isnt even playing while hes not hurt