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spreadeagle
12-15-2013, 01:34 AM
Didnt look like he pushed him that hard, but with Varejao's injury history and the way he went down wouldn't surprise me.

video- http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/14/magics-nicholson-ejected-for-late-cheap-shot-on-cavs-varejao-video/


Near the very end of the Cavaliers’ win over the Magic on Friday, Orlando’s Andrew Nicholson was called for a flagrant two foul that resulted in an automatic ejection for shoving Anderson Varejao to the floor.

Apparently Nicholson didn’t appreciate the fact that Varejao scored the meaningless basket with the Cavs up six and just 10 seconds remaining, but being only a two-possession game at the time and considering that Varejao received the pass at the rim with no one around him, scoring the ball was hardly deserving of Nicholson’s response.

Jason Lloyd of the Akron Beacon Journal had the postgame reaction:

“I didn’t mean to hurt him, I didn’t try to hurt him,” Nicholson said. “I didn’t think I pushed him that hard. But it’s part of the game.”

Waiters called it a “cheap shot” even though he didn’t actually see it. Neither did Mike Brown. Waiters had his back turned and heard Varejao hollering on the ground in pain. Waiters thought he heard Nicholson say something like, “You don’t do that,” referring to the unnecessary basket, but he wasn’t sure. …

As for Varejao’s point of view of the whole thing, he didn’t see it either. He simply laid the ball in and was shoved. Live it didn’t look malicious, but on the replay it was clear Nicholson extended both arms in shoving Varejao. “I was surprised,” Varejao said. “The game was over and there was no reason for that.”

It was an unnecessary cheap shot, but one that likely won’t require any additional punishment from the league in the form of a fine or suspension.

spreadeagle
12-15-2013, 01:37 AM
also, up 6 with 10 seconds to go I would score too, what if they foul you, you miss the free throws and they hit a quick 3

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
12-15-2013, 01:57 AM
This play wasn't a big deal .... to me he barely pushed him and typical varejao flops (he is one of the BIGGEST floppers) and sells it a little with the knee grab.... a suspension would be extreme

ACanadian
12-15-2013, 02:02 AM
Don't stat pad and you won't get pushed, proud Nicholson is Canadian.

Arch Stanton
12-15-2013, 02:17 AM
No Nicholson shouldn't get suspended. He was clearly reacting out of frustration.

DubbyDubbs
12-15-2013, 02:26 AM
No.

Mr_Jones
12-15-2013, 02:30 AM
No.

BHF
12-15-2013, 02:31 AM
No.

*Superman*
12-15-2013, 03:22 AM
Lol that was such a soft push, uncalled for, but soft.

bholly
12-15-2013, 03:26 AM
Bad play, but that's what the flagrant 2 is for. Maybe a small fine, I don't know.

Any word on Varejao's condition? That he was reaching for the knee as he was still falling looks bad, but (as a soccer fan) the way he grabs his face and then the way he looks up make me think that maybe, just maybe, he'll be just fine.

ThaDubs
12-15-2013, 03:28 AM
Flop. Varejao injured himself if this is an actual injury. Nicholson barely touched the guy and he just flew to the ground. Hurt himself, deserves it if anything.

Deception
12-15-2013, 04:11 AM
Flop. Varejao injured himself if this is an actual injury. Nicholson barely touched the guy and he just flew to the ground. Hurt himself, deserves it if anything.

Flop is debatable, but you can tell Varejao was trying to sell it when he was on the floor. Grabbed his knee, then 10 seconds later his facial expression gets worse when Mike Brown comes up to him.

Cal827
12-15-2013, 04:31 AM
He dove, suspend Varejao for 5 games, and only allow Bynum to play beyond the 3 point line.

RLundi
12-15-2013, 09:34 AM
Nah, there was no ill will, he didn't push him that hard. No fine, no suspension, much ado about nothing.

IndyRealist
12-15-2013, 11:34 AM
I watched the video, don't see any way Varejao could have hurt his left knee, which he was grabbing. Seems kind of fishy.

IndyRealist
12-15-2013, 11:36 AM
Nah, there was no ill will, he didn't push him that hard. No fine, no suspension, much ado about nothing.

There was no ill will? He very obviously shoved another player to the ground after the play was over. Varejao made the basket and had landed back on the ground. I'm not sure what your definition of ill will is, that was definitely malicious.

king4day
12-15-2013, 12:46 PM
Looked like a flop. He did push but not the extent Varejao showed. Looked like he even tried pulling his jersey back. Just look at his 'knee' injury. Nothing happened to his knee. He just fell and grabbed it.

king4day
12-15-2013, 12:47 PM
He dove, suspend Varejao for 5 games, and only allow Bynum to play beyond the 3 point line.

While he won't and shouldn't get suspended, I think a more valid question would be, "should Varejao be warned/fined for the flopping/acting job?"

Gilnder
12-15-2013, 01:22 PM
No.

RLundi
12-15-2013, 02:03 PM
There was no ill will? He very obviously shoved another player to the ground after the play was over. Varejao made the basket and had landed back on the ground. I'm not sure what your definition of ill will is, that was definitely malicious.

Wow, exaggerating much? Watch the replays. Varejao flopped to sell it. Yes Drew pushed him but shoved with malicious intent? Lol no. There was no ill will in that he wasn't trying to hurt him. Send a message? Sure.

IndyRealist
12-15-2013, 02:15 PM
Wow, exaggerating much? Watch the replays. Varejao flopped to sell it. Yes Drew pushed him but shoved with malicious intent? Lol no. There was no ill will in that he wasn't trying to hurt him. Send a message? Sure.

Sending a message is the definition of ill will. THE PLAY WAS OVER AND THE BALL WAS IN THE BASKET. There was zero reason to touch him, and the only explanation for the contact was ill will. Varejao absolutely flopped afterwards, but there should have been no contact to begin with. Flagrant 2 was perfectly justified.

ThaDubs
12-15-2013, 02:39 PM
Sending a message is the definition of ill will. THE PLAY WAS OVER AND THE BALL WAS IN THE BASKET. There was zero reason to touch him, and the only explanation for the contact was ill will. Varejao absolutely flopped afterwards, but there should have been no contact to begin with. Flagrant 2 was perfectly justified.

You're argument is that the play was over and there was no reason to touch him. Well my argument is that the game was over and there was no reason to shoot it. He was just stat padding because he had only 4 points prior.

Stop being so damn soft.

Arch Stanton
12-15-2013, 04:23 PM
Whether or not Varejao flopped or not shouldn't matter. Nicholson initiated the contact after the play was over. He shouldn't get suspended, but AV shouldn't get any flop warning either. This is really a non-issue. Just another gossip/stir-the-pot thread by spreadeagle.

IndyRealist
12-15-2013, 06:09 PM
You're argument is that the play was over and there was no reason to touch him. Well my argument is that the game was over and there was no reason to shoot it. He was just stat padding because he had only 4 points prior.

Stop being so damn soft.

That's just sad. Your arugment is, "he deserved it"??? You shove a player, not to prevent a basket but after the play is over, it's a flagrant 2. He's not exactly being much of a man when he knows the other players can't retaliate without getting suspended.

It was a 2 possession game and a basket puts the game out of reach. If they foul. which they were trying to do, and both free throws miss then they come down and hit a 3 it's a one possession game.

So, you're full of it.

WARRIORS@GR
12-15-2013, 06:25 PM
What a *****..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg6gXbQP_jU

http://www.contra.gr/Basketball/Hellas/article1835228.ece/ALTERNATES/w460/zisis_2006.jpg

WITZ
12-15-2013, 06:41 PM
Did you really bring up a video from 6 + years ago :laugh2: the point of that video is....

WARRIORS@GR
12-15-2013, 06:43 PM
Did you really bring up a video from 6 + years ago :laugh2: the point of that video is....No point.Just remembered what a ***** he is.

ThaDubs
12-15-2013, 06:53 PM
That's just sad. Your arugment is, "he deserved it"??? You shove a player, not to prevent a basket but after the play is over, it's a flagrant 2. He's not exactly being much of a man when he knows the other players can't retaliate without getting suspended.

It was a 2 possession game and a basket puts the game out of reach. If they foul. which they were trying to do, and both free throws miss then they come down and hit a 3 it's a one possession game.

So, you're full of it.

1. The Cavs won by 9, it was already out of reach. It's unsportsmanlike and basically kicking someone while they're down if you shoot to stat pad at the end of a game. Just like the Damian Lillard dunk last year.

2. A flagrant 1 is "unnecessary contact committed by a player against an opponent". A flagrant 2 is "unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent. It is an unsportsmanlike act and the offender is ejected immediately." It was unnecessary for sure, but it was not excessive. He barely pushed him, and Varejao flopped which made it look excessive. But if you're going by the book, it's a flagrant 1 and if Nicholson gets a fine Varejao should get a fine for flopping (and a Tony award).

IndyRealist
12-15-2013, 07:15 PM
1. The Cavs won by 9, it was already out of reach. It's unsportsmanlike and basically kicking someone while they're down if you shoot to stat pad at the end of a game. Just like the Damian Lillard dunk last year.

2. A flagrant 1 is "unnecessary contact committed by a player against an opponent". A flagrant 2 is "unnecessary and excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent. It is an unsportsmanlike act and the offender is ejected immediately." It was unnecessary for sure, but it was not excessive. He barely pushed him, and Varejao flopped which made it look excessive. But if you're going by the book, it's a flagrant 1 and if Nicholson gets a fine Varejao should get a fine for flopping (and a Tony award).

The game was 6 when the flagrant happened, with a 2pt basket and 2 free throws. That's how it got to 9. The game was not technically out of reach until Varejao took that shot.

A flagrant 1 is pushing a player who is in the air to prevent a basket, since it is "unnecessary" and there was not a play on the ball. This is "excessive" because because it occurred dead ball, not because it was especially violent. If he was there a second earlier it would have been a 1, but because it was after the play it is a 2.

ThaDubs
12-15-2013, 08:57 PM
The game was 6 when the flagrant happened, with a 2pt basket and 2 free throws. That's how it got to 9. The game was not technically out of reach until Varejao took that shot.

A flagrant 1 is pushing a player who is in the air to prevent a basket, since it is "unnecessary" and there was not a play on the ball. This is "excessive" because because it occurred dead ball, not because it was especially violent. If he was there a second earlier it would have been a 1, but because it was after the play it is a 2.

No, you are wrong. The word excessive does not mean "on a dead ball". If you were correct, they would have specified that it must be on a dead ball in the rules glossary where I found that. But no, they said "excessive".

ManRam
12-15-2013, 10:44 PM
I'm only posting here because there's a thread about the Magic in the NBA Forum and that's #rare.

IndyRealist
12-15-2013, 11:44 PM
No, you are wrong. The word excessive does not mean "on a dead ball". If you were correct, they would have specified that it must be on a dead ball in the rules glossary where I found that. But no, they said "excessive".

That is the most literal interpretation of a rule I've ever seen. It was "excessive" because there was no play going on, there was no reason for contact whatsoever. "Excessive" does not mean "he pushed him harder."

We'll see on Monday how the NBA rules on it, but if I were you I wouldn't get my hopes up.

ThaDubs
12-16-2013, 12:05 AM
That is the most literal interpretation of a rule I've ever seen. It was "excessive" because there was no play going on, there was no reason for contact whatsoever. "Excessive" does not mean "he pushed him harder."

We'll see on Monday how the NBA rules on it, but if I were you I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Get my hopes up? Get them up for what? I don't give a damn about either team to be completely honest, I just think Varejao's a *****, only reason I commented in the first place.

*Superman*
12-16-2013, 12:20 AM
I'm only posting here because there's a thread about the Magic in the NBA Forum and that's #rare.

:laugh2:

nothing more needs to be said.

*Superman*
12-16-2013, 12:22 AM
That is the most literal interpretation of a rule I've ever seen. It was "excessive" because there was no play going on, there was no reason for contact whatsoever. "Excessive" does not mean "he pushed him harder."

We'll see on Monday how the NBA rules on it, but if I were you I wouldn't get my hopes up.

About what? He already played today. Can or would they really suspend/fine a player two days later and being that he played today?

IndyRealist
12-16-2013, 05:07 PM
About what? He already played today. Can or would they really suspend/fine a player two days later and being that he played today?

If they downgrade it or not, which hasn't happened.