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redwhiteandblue
12-14-2013, 12:58 PM
I figured since there's really no thread dedicated to it, the forum could use one specifically for all Rangers rumors and what not from around the league. The Yakupov thread was taking shape as one but I figured this could clean things up a bit.

Here's a good piece to kick the thread up with, some news I know some of you will love:


RANGERS MAKING INQUIRES ABOUT EVANDER KANE?
Written by Kevin DeLury on Saturday, 14 December 2013 11:00.


According to The Fourth Period (http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/wpg131212.html), the Rangers are a number of teams who have "kicked the tires" on the availability of the Winnipeg Jets Evander Kane.

The price for Kane is believed to be two NHL-proven top-six forwards and a top prospect or a high draft pick.

Kane, 22, is in the second-year of a six-year, $31.5 million contract. He is earning $4.5 million this season, but will make $6 million in each of the remaining four years of his deal, which does not include a no-trade or no-movement clause. His cap hit is $5.25 million per year.

Kane has just 14 points (7g, 7a) this season after scoring 30 goals in 2011-12 and 17 goals during last year's lockout shortened season.

Kane has missed the last five games with a lower body injury.


http://www.nyrangersblog.com/2013-articles/december/rangers-making-inquires-about-evander-kane.html

redwhiteandblue
12-14-2013, 01:06 PM
That being said, is that price to steep for your liking? If no, who would you be willing to give up?

You would have to imagine by those reports the Jets will want two of Hagelin/Callahan/Kreider/Stepan and then one of McIlrath/Skjei/Fast/Kristo/1st Rounder/2nd and 2nd.

To me, with the state of this team, that's a steep price. With no real market to speak of (only that 'teams' have inquired) there's no point in moving on him. If everything holds out and the price comes down there may be a deal to be made.

At the very least though, there's the most solid amount of information that's been reported, so have at it: worth it? And if so, at what cost?

Redfish
12-14-2013, 02:02 PM
Two top-six forwards plus top prospect or high draft pick is too steep in my book, despite the fact I very much would like to see Evander Kane a Ranger for many years to come. I do not see that price being met, either, by other teams.

Thanks for starting this thread. Once Staal gets a month of playing time under his belt and IF McIlrath can stick as a #6 d-man, Del Zotto will be gone, in my view. Come trade deadline, teams will start bidding up his price.

bsi
12-14-2013, 02:11 PM
Huge price, we arent ready for that yet. Would love to have him as it would be a good fit in our top 6.

JdKing7
12-14-2013, 06:46 PM
I'd love to see Kane in a Ranger uni but that is too steep for this current team. It takes away much needed depth from the team that has yet to recover from the Nash trade.

nyr1980
12-14-2013, 07:32 PM
If that is the price, it is too high.

But if the Jets are looking to shake things up as the Rangers are,maybe a deal for Kane and Bfyulgien can be worked out.

Redfish
12-14-2013, 07:38 PM
While we all tend to think about these bigger player type trades, the Rangers actually have a lot of work to do rebuilding their bottom 6. Asham, Pyatt, Poulitot and D Moore all make over $1mm/season and wouldn't make most teams' rosters. Boyle has a lot of value on a 4th line role with fill-in opportunities occasionally on 3rd line, but at $1.7mm/yr his contract makes him vulnerable to being moved since he does not consistently score 10-14 goals per season.

Sather has a lot of work to do on our 3rd and 4th lines; they are supposed to wear down other teams and it's just not going to happen with this crew.

IAmARanger18
12-15-2013, 12:34 PM
In a deal for Kane, everybody but Nash, Kreider, McDonagh and Hank I make available. Seriously.

bsi
12-15-2013, 01:29 PM
In a deal for Kane, everybody but Nash, Kreider, McDonagh and Hank I make available. Seriously.

I agree though I would entertain Kreider going but the problem is they want two top 6 guys +. So that would mean Kreider+ Stepan +. This team cant handle losing two top 6 and getting one back when we really only have 5 true top 6. Its gonna take us a few years of smart drafting to be able to do that.

bsi
12-15-2013, 06:04 PM
Heard Simmonds is available but dont know at what cost, he would fit in a few different ways here, would be a guy would can score a bit, hit, fast on the forecheck and can fight. Not likely a good match trying to get him out of Philly for us but I wouldnt mind kicking the tires.

Redfish
12-15-2013, 07:54 PM
Rumors of impending d-man trade from "controversial" (?) source.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rumors-of-Rangers-Deal/1/56454

nyr1980
12-15-2013, 08:03 PM
Rumors of impending d-man trade from "controversial" (?) source.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rumors-of-Rangers-Deal/1/56454

Guess we'll see. Not huge news though. They've been trying to move MDZ.

redwhiteandblue
12-15-2013, 09:04 PM
If that is the price, it is too high.

But if the Jets are looking to shake things up as the Rangers are,maybe a deal for Kane and Bfyulgien can be worked out.
We could pay but can't afford that package listed. I can't really see how we could manage a trade for their top two players.


In a deal for Kane, everybody but Nash, Kreider, McDonagh and Hank I make available. Seriously.
It's hard to disagree with that, especially at this point in time, but the only player I would add to that list might be McIlrath. I see him translating to a great character guy like Dubinsky we won't want to lose again.

He has more progress to make but nonetheless I would hope the Rangers hold on to him. Especially Hank heading into the other side of his career.



I agree though I would entertain Kreider going but the problem is they want two top 6 guys +. So that would mean Kreider+ Stepan +. This team cant handle losing two top 6 and getting one back when we really only have 5 true top 6. Its gonna take us a few years of smart drafting to be able to do that.
Although I think the idea of adding Kane is very attractive, I would hold on to Kreider.

If I was to see Kreider going the other way I would expect a veteran roster player and mid-level prospect/pick with it. Something that brings the price down.


Heard Simmonds is available but dont know at what cost, he would fit in a few different ways here, would be a guy would can score a bit, hit, fast on the forecheck and can fight. Not likely a good match trying to get him out of Philly for us but I wouldnt mind kicking the tires.
I would really welcome the addition of Wayne Simmonds. I have been a big fan of his since he came into the league and he does address a lot of this teams issues right now.

Great character guy, great teammate, an in-your-face contributor. It's also definitely appealing his price tag is significantly less.


Rumors of impending d-man trade from "controversial" (?) source.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rumors-of-Rangers-Deal/1/56454


Guess we'll see. Not huge news though. They've been trying to move MDZ.

I would take anything Eklund says with a grain of salt. He sells dramatized smoke and mirrors to the public.

nyr2002nyr
12-16-2013, 08:53 AM
If that is the price, it is too high.

But if the Jets are looking to shake things up as the Rangers are,maybe a deal for Kane and Bfyulgien can be worked out.

That would be great!


What they are asking for is bot only to high nobody will pay it

nyr2002nyr
12-16-2013, 08:54 AM
Heard Simmonds is available but dont know at what cost, he would fit in a few different ways here, would be a guy would can score a bit, hit, fast on the forecheck and can fight. Not likely a good match trying to get him out of Philly for us but I wouldnt mind kicking the tires.

That guy can play for my team anyday

nyr2002nyr
12-16-2013, 08:56 AM
In a deal for Kane, everybody but Nash, Kreider, McDonagh and Hank I make available. Seriously.

Kreider is just stating to come into his own as a player and if he starts being able to do that every game it will be really scary they better keep him

Redfish
12-16-2013, 12:32 PM
Rangers / Habs?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rangers-and-Habs-Closing-in-on-Deal/1/56466

nyr2002nyr
12-16-2013, 03:39 PM
Rangers / Habs?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Rangers-and-Habs-Closing-in-on-Deal/1/56466

He is kinda wrong

Rangers and Habs hooked up in the off-season. Kristo for Thomas.

bsi
12-16-2013, 04:24 PM
Its Eklund but anyway, if its not Pacioretty or Subban I am not overly interested.

redwhiteandblue
12-16-2013, 04:52 PM
Yeah, you really have to take Eklund with a grain of salt. The guy perpetuates third hand information like he is a maven of inside sources.

nyr1980
12-16-2013, 05:33 PM
I'm sure they are talking to many teams, and are probably aggressively shopping Del Zotto. We'll have to wait and see.

nyr2002nyr
12-16-2013, 05:48 PM
Its Eklund but anyway, if its not Pacioretty or Subban I am not overly interested.

Subban would be nice

nyr1980
12-16-2013, 06:49 PM
Probably someone like Lars Eller.

He'd actuallly be a nice acquisition. Centerman with good size, win face-offs, can score a bit. Pretty physical and kills penalties too. Good add for third line.

But it's Eklund.

saintant182
12-16-2013, 06:59 PM
i heard this eklund rumour too, and immediately dismissed it as its him... having said that i do remember hearing a little while back that habs really liked and wanted brassard before we aquired him, i cant remember for the life of me where i read/saw it but if it were true in any way and brass was involved along with MDZ... things would get a whole lot more interesting.

i would assume in any case that sather is both biding his time as well as working the phones and gauging the availability and price of a few people, he will be hoping for a bounce back from the team im sure, hoping he can hold fire until such time where teams may need to come to him...

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 01:10 PM
Still waiting for Eklund's BIG update!

nyr2002nyr
12-17-2013, 01:33 PM
"When you implement new systems, new coaches, new people it takes a while," Messier explained. "You watch the games and see a lot of synergy and cohesion that needs to be in place in order for a team to be successful. If they are hesitating at all normally that doesn't pan out very well."

That might explain their early season struggles and substandard record. It also helps to explain why Messier isn't all that concerned.

"I expect the Rangers to have a strong second half," he said. "It's a long season, they have a lot of great players. I wouldn't be willing to jump off the ship quite yet."

The Rangers have been dealt their fair share of injuries so far, but that's like every team. Still, losing not only a player of Ryan Callahan's level but also a leader of his level, well that's something Messier can understand very well. He knows what Callahan does as the Rangers captain, Cally has been in the running for the Mark Messier Leadership Award in the past. He's a big part of the club.

When players like him are missing from the lineup, you notice.

"It's huge any time you have injuries to your captain and your leader. He leads by example on the ice and he tows everybody along with him with the energy on the ice and the way he plays," Messier said. "That's a big loss. Marc Staal is a big loss on defense. But in the end you never make excuses for poor performance, every team has to deal with it and it comes down to the strength of the organization to fill in those holes."

Redfish
12-17-2013, 01:52 PM
Still waiting for Eklund's BIG update!

Diaz +, per Eklund

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 02:11 PM
Bleacher report too.

I'm a little surprised actually. Figured they'd be looking for a forward in any deal involving MDZ. I know that the D has been poor, but I feel like it will improve, and that they'd be looking for size/offense up front.

Redfish
12-17-2013, 02:19 PM
Bleacher report too.

I'm a little surprised actually. Figured they'd be looking for a forward in any deal involving MDZ. I know that the D has been poor, but I feel like it will improve, and that they'd be looking for size/offense up front.

If these are the key pieces, it would be a step backward for the Rangers. Diaz is not better than Del Zotto; he is a #5 or #6 d-man that is "serviceable" but that is about it. Not a pucl mver; not a physical presence; not a playmaker but positionally sound.

Perhaps Brassard and Pacioretty are missing from the rumor?

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 02:40 PM
If these are the key pieces, it would be a step backward for the Rangers. Diaz is not better than Del Zotto; he is a #5 or #6 d-man that is "serviceable" but that is about it. Not a pucl mver; not a physical presence; not a playmaker but positionally sound.

Perhaps Brassard and Pacioretty are missing from the rumor?

I agree. Diaz is not better than MDZ.

Defensively, I wholeheartedly believe they'll improve. They've been top 5 in the league the past three seasons, and that's not all Hank. Clearly they're still adjusting to the man to man scheme, but there's too many quality players back there for them not to improve. And even with their struggles, Hank's been poor. They don't give up a ton of shots, top 10 in the league there. Law of averages says this will improve significantly.

I don't believe MTL trades Pacioretty. Why would they? He's in year one of a six year deal worth $27 mil.

Again, I think someone like Eller would be really nice.
Gives them a legit third line center, and then maybe they can flip Brass for a winger who can play in the top 6.

bsi
12-17-2013, 03:36 PM
If these are the key pieces, it would be a step backward for the Rangers. Diaz is not better than Del Zotto; he is a #5 or #6 d-man that is "serviceable" but that is about it. Not a pucl mver; not a physical presence; not a playmaker but positionally sound.

Perhaps Brassard and Pacioretty are missing from the rumor?

I agree. Diaz is not better than MDZ.

Defensively, I wholeheartedly believe they'll improve. They've been top 5 in the league the past three seasons, and that's not all Hank. Clearly they're still adjusting to the man to man scheme, but there's too many quality players back there for them not to improve. And even with their struggles, Hank's been poor. They don't give up a ton of shots, top 10 in the league there. Law of averages says this will improve significantly.

I don't believe MTL trades Pacioretty. Why would they? He's in year one of a six year deal worth $27 mil.

Again, I think someone like Eller would be really nice.
Gives them a legit third line center, and then maybe they can flip Brass for a winger who can play in the top 6.

Earlier in the season mtl were taking offers on Pacioretty but I kinda doubt they are now. I dont really see Eller as an upgrade to Moore except for the age difference really. As the season goes on we are gonna find that Brassard is our #2 center I believe.

nyr2002nyr
12-17-2013, 03:45 PM
Earlier in the season mtl were taking offers on Pacioretty but I kinda doubt they are now. I dont really see Eller as an upgrade to Moore except for the age difference really. As the season goes on we are gonna find that Brassard is our #2 center I believe.

yeah i dont want to trade Brass either

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 03:56 PM
Earlier in the season mtl were taking offers on Pacioretty but I kinda doubt they are now. I dont really see Eller as an upgrade to Moore except for the age difference really. As the season goes on we are gonna find that Brassard is our #2 center I believe.

Have to disagree with you there. He's bigger, stronger, plays physically, and better offensively by a good margin, on top of being younger. He's also 54% on face-offs, which is the same as Moore, but he's taken twice as many. He also plays more minutes and plays PK & PP. Him on a 3rd line with Cally and Hags looks pretty good to me actually. A bit small, but otherwise I like it. Lets you have Boyle, Dorsett, and Moore on the 4th, which I also like. That's a really solid bottom-6.

I'm not too high on Brass. He's similar to Pouliot to me. Production doesn't match skill level, and hes too prone to bad mistakes defensively.

Hockey4Life
12-17-2013, 04:56 PM
truthfully I wouldn't trade MDZ he is a rfa and will not get much of a raise and the return for him will not be great unless he catches fire before the trade deadline. however I think we may be able to get a guy like skinner and ruutu from Carolina for marc stall. There's been rumors that there dream was all to play together and with him being a ufa after next year I don't no that we will offer him enough to stay

bsi
12-17-2013, 05:49 PM
Have to disagree with you there. He's bigger, stronger, plays physically, and better offensively by a good margin, on top of being younger. He's also 54% on face-offs, which is the same as Moore, but he's taken twice as many. He also plays more minutes and plays PK & PP. Him on a 3rd line with Cally and Hags looks pretty good to me actually. A bit small, but otherwise I like it. Lets you have Boyle, Dorsett, and Moore on the 4th, which I also like. That's a really solid bottom-6.

I'm not too high on Brass. He's similar to Pouliot to me. Production doesn't match skill level, and hes too prone to bad mistakes defensively.

You can't fault Moore for not being used as much, he's been pretty good for us so far and that's with limited ice time. The point is they are too similar to even bother, we already have Moore, why trade someone away to get a similar player, it really doesn't make any sense, we'd be giving something away and getting little in the way of an upgrade in return.

The problem with Brassard as I see it is that we should never have hired Scott Arniel as an assistant. He wasn't given a chance to do what he did for us the whole time he was with us last year, this year. Him and Arniel have issues, and while they say there isn't any, there's still something in the back of Arniels mind that remembers the guy that struggled in Columbus. He isn't bad defensively but it's brought out in the form of a demotion when he makes a mistake, it puts a spotlight on the mistake. I am a Richards fan, but the other night him pinching in while the D man was already in caused a 2 on 1 and ultimately a goal, Richards doesn't miss a shift, if Brassard does the same thing he's on the bench. I didn't like the Arniel hiring because we had guys playing for us that probably cost him his job. Brassard has to be used like our other top players and given a little latitude because while he might make the odd mistake like Nash, Callahan, Richards all do, we need his creativity with the puck, shooting and offensive skill overall on this team. You can't hold a magnifying glass over him all night.

bsi
12-17-2013, 05:56 PM
With regards to DelZotto, I really think we are making a big mistake in dealing him now. This could be there reverse of what happened for us with McDonagh really IMO. If a team like Detroit gets him, we're gonna look like fools.

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 06:30 PM
With regards to DelZotto, I really think we are making a big mistake in dealing him now. This could be there reverse of what happened for us with McDonagh really IMO. If a team like Detroit gets him, we're gonna look like fools.

I can see that for sure. But it's hard to keep him around if he's not playing and the coach has little confidence in him when he does.

On Moore, I like him a lot, And think he could play more, but he won't score as much as Eller, and as mentioned, Eller's got 2 inches and 20 lbs. on Moore, and he can be a 20-goal guy. Moore won't do that under any circumstances at this point IMO.
And if he's centering the fourth line, that's real depth and options down there.

Honestly, I think what we've seen is much more underachieving than undertalented. While no one will mistake them for the '84 Oilers, they're considerably better, talent and skill wise than they've shown. I think a few things need to happen, all of which are doable:

1) Hank needs to play better and find his consistency. Regardless of changes to coach and system, when your goalie is at or among the best in the sport, he will always be your best player, and you have to build around that and let it be your emphasis. Plus, he's re-signed now, so no more fear of him leaving, and at that price, he doesn't get to *****.

2) Dump the man to man, and go zone again. They've thrived defensively as a zone team for years, under two coaches, and with different guys in the mix, and going away from it was a mistake that really screwed them up. Make adjustments as to what they do in the offensive zone, but zone in their own end has been huge for them. Use it. The corps of defensivemen has been a strength and all of them have shown they can be very good at one time or another. Again, something that's been a strength they should play to and emphasise.

3) Richards has been their best forward and has been decisive, confident, and productive. He needs to play with Nash. Period. He has earned the right to play with him.

4) Put the line of Stepan, Zuccs, and Krieder back together and leave them alone. Chemistry was undeniable, and it is a real nice mixture. Step needs to find his game and this will be fine.

nyr2002nyr
12-18-2013, 11:38 AM
With regards to DelZotto, I really think we are making a big mistake in dealing him now. This could be there reverse of what happened for us with McDonagh really IMO. If a team like Detroit gets him, we're gonna look like fools.

Nah not at all ship him out. He has has chances under 2 coaches and is also a FA. We he be wantimg a raise for doing nothing? And no matter how good "he can be" he4 is not now and is not really playing

bsi
12-18-2013, 12:30 PM
With regards to DelZotto, I really think we are making a big mistake in dealing him now. This could be there reverse of what happened for us with McDonagh really IMO. If a team like Detroit gets him, we're gonna look like fools.

Nah not at all ship him out. He has has chances under 2 coaches and is also a FA. We he be wantimg a raise for doing nothing? And no matter how good "he can be" he4 is not now and is not really playing

Wasnt it you that said D-men needed around 250 games atleast in the nhl to be comfortable in the other thread. DelZotto has played 276 and with the exception of some bumps in the road he hasnt been that bad for us. Overall he has been prertty good with the exception of this year hut I challenge you to name 5 guys on this team that have been consistantly good for us this year. He has the skill set to be good, needs to play his normal side and be involved in the game. I think people forget about his age since he started early, but he is still a young d man.

redwhiteandblue
12-18-2013, 12:53 PM
I have supported Delly as long as I can, but he often makes plays that are high risk/almost bonehead and they more often than not don't pay off.

I agree with, to an extent, that defenseman take a long time to develop or fully hit their potential, some less some more. Not all defenseman though are handed great coaching or top four minutes to learn through it, so my time with Delly has come to an end.

bsi
12-18-2013, 03:41 PM
Thing is he's still only 23. I know people are kind of sick of seeing him give the puck away from time to time but he can skate, he can handle physical play, he has proven throughout his career that he's an offensive D-man. If he was on another team we'd be begging the GM to go out and get him. I personally would rather wait until after this next contract to decide what to do with him, if he's 26 and still not doing much we can still probably get as much for him as we are gonna right now. That's my opinion, I think we're always saying we need a young offensive d, and ofcourse DelZotto was supposed to come in and do that right away but he's still young, he's played here for a while but still young. This is one I think years down the road we will look at it and say, what did Raphael Diaz do for this club compared to what DelZotto has done for the Habs, if that is what the return would be and we will bash Sather for ever considering it. The upside is much greater for DelZotto. If we were getting a serious upgrade I would not worry about it, but really is Diaz gonna help this team? At best this is a lateral move that has the potential to blow up in our face. He's not a difference maker, won't likely ever be but that's my opinion though.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-18-2013, 05:47 PM
I dont want to trade MDZ unless he bring back a very good player. Id rather trade guys around 30 than 23. MDZ can shoot, pass, skate and hit. Yes he makes some bonehead plays but I'd rather not give up on him. We played him on the wrong side most of this season. Our goaltending has been shaky. I do not want to scapegoat this kid. If he brings a very good player back that is fine but I do not want to trade just for the sake of trading. Some of the best trades are the ones you never make.

bsi
12-18-2013, 06:25 PM
I dont want to trade MDZ unless he bring back a very good player. Id rather trade guys around 30 than 23. MDZ can shoot, pass, skate and hit. Yes he makes some bonehead plays but I'd rather not give up on him. We played him on the wrong side most of this season. Our goaltending has been shaky. I do not want to scapegoat this kid. If he brings a very good player back that is fine but I do not want to trade just for the sake of trading. Some of the best trades are the ones you never make.

Couldnt agree more, I still think he has top line pp and atleast top 4 d potential. I was watching some old clips of him today when he first started here. I think they need to just let him play and stop trying to turn him into Bruce Driver. When he was here first he had confidence to go with the puck whenever, he doesnt have that now. We have enough defensive d men, play him with one and let him run on his natural side please. Thought he looked pretty good the last game. 6 shots on net.

nyr1980
12-18-2013, 07:21 PM
MDZ has looked a little better of late, I'll say that.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not really advocating they deal him. Truly, it's bcause they're clearly shopping him, and AV clearly is unhappy/unconfident concerning his play.

Del Zotto has been a big part of their success over the last few seasons, and on his game he is a legitimate top-4 defenseman with good offensive skills. But that player has been missing all of this season, and all of last.

As stated, he's still only 23 and he's shown that he has a lot of ability and can be very good. But AV hasn't confidence in him, and is unwilling to play him much, when he's even been in the lineup. Regardless of that, players like MDZ have value and they don't come available all that often and the price is high when they do. Look at the deadline and see how few top-4 D are available, and look at the price for those that are.

That said, if AV won't play him, or his play doesn't improve, dealing him is the only other realistic option.

nyr2002nyr
12-18-2013, 10:11 PM
Wasnt it you that said D-men needed around 250 games atleast in the nhl to be comfortable in the other thread. DelZotto has played 276 and with the exception of some bumps in the road he hasnt been that bad for us. Overall he has been prertty good with the exception of this year hut I challenge you to name 5 guys on this team that have been consistantly good for us this year. He has the skill set to be good, needs to play his normal side and be involved in the game. I think people forget about his age since he started early, but he is still a young d man.

First no it wasn't me who said that. Cam Folwer proves that. You keep mentionjng his "normal side " but I'm sure he is playing the side he wants. He is a grown *** man who can open his mouth about where he wants to play

nyr2002nyr
12-18-2013, 10:12 PM
Couldnt agree more, I still think he has top line pp and atleast top 4 d potential. I was watching some old clips of him today when he first started here. I think they need to just let him play and stop trying to turn him into Bruce Driver. When he was here first he had confidence to go with the puck whenever, he doesnt have that now. We have enough defensive d men, play him with one and let him run on his natural side please. Thought he looked pretty good the last game. 6 shots on net.

Is he not a FA?

bsi
12-19-2013, 09:41 AM
Wasnt it you that said D-men needed around 250 games atleast in the nhl to be comfortable in the other thread. DelZotto has played 276 and with the exception of some bumps in the road he hasnt been that bad for us. Overall he has been prertty good with the exception of this year hut I challenge you to name 5 guys on this team that have been consistantly good for us this year. He has the skill set to be good, needs to play his normal side and be involved in the game. I think people forget about his age since he started early, but he is still a young d man.

First no it wasn't me who said that. Cam Folwer proves that. You keep mentionjng his "normal side " but I'm sure he is playing the side he wants. He is a grown *** man who can open his mouth about where he wants to play

The Rangers are short one guy on that side so since the start of the year they have been playing him there. If the coach tells you to play goalie thats where you play, he can open his mouth all he wants.

bsi
12-19-2013, 10:10 AM
Is he not a FA?

He is an RFA.

nyr2002nyr
12-19-2013, 10:38 AM
The Rangers are short one guy on that side so since the start of the year they have been playing him there. If the coach tells you to play goalie thats where you play, he can open his mouth all he wants.

You can say what you want but with plays like last night it has nothing to do with SIDE he is making bad % plays going for the puck and not the man. ANd the coach dictates where he plays we all get that but he can talk to the coach if he felt like it was totally afecting his game. He had the same issue last year under a different coach.

Redfish
12-19-2013, 11:12 AM
The Rangers are short one guy on that side so since the start of the year they have been playing him there. If the coach tells you to play goalie thats where you play, he can open his mouth all he wants.

The observation I noticed this season is, to the extent MDZ was playing the right-side on defense, it was because his performance while playing on the left-side was poor, and dropped him lower on the depth chart. To start the season, Moore was playing the right-side and simply outplayed Del Zotto and got elevated on the depth chart. I think it is all within Michael's control but I am sure he feels like he is being squeezed from competition above (McDonagh and Staal) as well as below (Moore).

Competition on the team, any team, is absolutely a necessity to winning. If Moore develops nicely and mitigates the need for Del Zotto, perhaps we can get that top six LW some day.

Unfortunately, MDZ IS likely to develop into his skillset, but it may require playing with a different organization in a different city. As a rookie, I was all for taking the risk and giving him a shot to play at 19yrs old --- in retrospect, MDZ may have been the type of player that needed to spend some time in the AHL before becoming a "hockey star" in Manhattan. Just my view.

redwhiteandblue
12-19-2013, 02:06 PM
I agree with a lot of this. I think MDZs time in NYC is up.

I believe he may end in a situation where someone may help him get to another level, but it's not in NY I'm afraid.

bsi
12-19-2013, 05:52 PM
I actually thought DelZotto was alright last night, he got caught a little flat footed on the Sutter goal but he wasn't the only one making mistakes there and I thought overall he had a good game, stuck up for Hank when he got snow showered as well. I mean we all jump on DZ for a mistake but McDonagh breaks his stick and then follows the guy right to the blue line leaving his partner to try and cover both sides of the net and caused a goal, Girardi caused the second goal but ofcourse nobody points this out because DelZotto is the scapegoat. As I said before he's not the only one making mistakes but everyone points them out and magnifies it when it's him that doesn't do something right. I personally hope they keep him here, but that's just my opinion.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-19-2013, 06:05 PM
I think come trade deadline team we may be listening for trades for guys at or near 30 like Richards, Cally, Girardi, and maybe even Nash. If some of those guys are traded we could have anywhere from 1-7 extra draft picks coming back.

nyr1980
12-19-2013, 06:38 PM
I actually thought DelZotto was alright last night, he got caught a little flat footed on the Sutter goal but he wasn't the only one making mistakes there and I thought overall he had a good game, stuck up for Hank when he got snow showered as well. I mean we all jump on DZ for a mistake but McDonagh breaks his stick and then follows the guy right to the blue line leaving his partner to try and cover both sides of the net and caused a goal, Girardi caused the second goal but ofcourse nobody points this out because DelZotto is the scapegoat. As I said before he's not the only one making mistakes but everyone points them out and magnifies it when it's him that doesn't do something right. I personally hope they keep him here, but that's just my opinion.

Agreed, they're all struggling and making mistakes they previously did not, which illustrates that they're not adapted to the system they're using, or they're ill-suited for it and won't.

Redfish
12-19-2013, 07:56 PM
Agreed, they're all struggling and making mistakes they previously did not, which illustrates that they're not adapted to the system they're using, or they're ill-suited for it and won't.

35 games is a long period to evaluate this

nyr1980
12-19-2013, 08:59 PM
35 games is a long period to evaluate this

I agree. They aren't right for this style of play, hence the underachieving, the missed assignments, disjointed play, and ultimate lack of results and success.

redwhiteandblue
12-19-2013, 11:31 PM
In regards to bsi's point about Del Z bring magnified in his mistake, that would be because his overall play for the last two seasons has put him in that position. Sergei Gonchar spent years with the same shtick, yet he was more commanding and efficient as a PP catalyst and wasn't as big of a liability defensively.

I don't think there's no hope, but I also don't see much of a future here in this current stint.

bsi
12-20-2013, 02:46 AM
In regards to bsi's point about Del Z bring magnified in his mistake, that would be because his overall play for the last two seasons has put him in that position. Sergei Gonchar spent years with the same shtick, yet he was more commanding and efficient as a PP catalyst and wasn't as big of a liability defensively.

I don't think there's no hope, but I also don't see much of a future here in this current stint.

Del Zotto is 23 though.. I realize that he seems like he's older but he is still only 23. Gonchar didn't become a PP catalyst overnight either, and I still take issue with people saying DelZotto is terrible defensively. He wouldn't have been playing at all for Tortorella if that were the case the last few years, it would have been smarter to leave him in the minors if he was terrible defensively at his age. There aren't too many D-men that max out their potential by 23, I really think trading him is gonna be a bad moment in this franchise. Most D men don't get to play a game in the NHL until they are 21 or 22, and most don't even come close to peaking until they are 26 or 27, it's just the way defensemen are in the league. Trading him now would mean we did all the hard work for him to become a great player somewhere else. It's at age 23-24 that GM's salivate over trades for D-men, it's a buy low scenario and if he was on another team we would be begging Sather to take him on. Just a recent player that we gave up on too early as a D-man was Fedor Tyutin, traded him off at 25 and he turned out to be a pretty good d-man and his potential wasn't near DelZotto's.

nyr2002nyr
12-20-2013, 09:46 AM
35 games is a long period to evaluate this

They wil always make mistakes but it comes down to who is making them often and if the same name keeps coming up.........Well then you see what happens

NYSPORTS98
12-20-2013, 11:04 AM
I think come trade deadline team we may be listening for trades for guys at or near 30 like Richards, Cally, Girardi, and maybe even Nash. If some of those guys are traded we could have anywhere from 1-7 extra draft picks coming back.

The Rangers needs player though. Draft picks which take 4 years to develop and usually miss I don't believe is the answer we're looking for. Especially with a goalie at this age.

Richards - I can't see how anybody would want this contract.

Girardi & Cally - would any of us be shocked to see a trade with Vancouver? I think it's only a matter of time.

nyr2002nyr
12-20-2013, 11:10 AM
The Rangers needs player though. Draft picks which take 4 years to develop and usually miss I don't believe is the answer we're looking for. Especially with a goalie at this age.

Richards - I can't see how anybody would want this contract.

Girardi & Cally - would any of us be shocked to see a trade with Vancouver? I think it's only a matter of time.

You can always use the Picks to net other players as well

bsi
12-20-2013, 11:33 AM
I think come trade deadline team we may be listening for trades for guys at or near 30 like Richards, Cally, Girardi, and maybe even Nash. If some of those guys are traded we could have anywhere from 1-7 extra draft picks coming back.

The Rangers needs player though. Draft picks which take 4 years to develop and usually miss I don't believe is the answer we're looking for. Especially with a goalie at this age.

Richards - I can't see how anybody would want this contract.

Girardi & Cally - would any of us be shocked to see a trade with Vancouver? I think it's only a matter of time.

Scott Gomez turned into mcdonagh...Richards right now is a better player than gomez was at his peak.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-20-2013, 12:58 PM
The Rangers needs player though. Draft picks which take 4 years to develop and usually miss I don't believe is the answer we're looking for. Especially with a goalie at this age.

Richards - I can't see how anybody would want this contract.

Girardi & Cally - would any of us be shocked to see a trade with Vancouver? I think it's only a matter of time.

I agree we could use players so feel free to change some picks in to prospects or package a bunch of picks for a top 5 pick.

I agree that no team would want Brads contract long term but can they grab his as a rental this season and then amnesty him in June?

nyr2002nyr
12-20-2013, 01:09 PM
I agree we could use players so feel free to change some picks in to prospects or package a bunch of picks for a top 5 pick.

I agree that no team would want Brads contract long term but can they grab his as a rental this season and then amnesty him in June?

Wasnt the bulk of his contract front loaded?

SLY WILLIAMS
12-20-2013, 01:17 PM
Wasnt the bulk of his contract front loaded?

Yes a lot of the salary comes in the first 6 years with the last 3 years being around 1 mill each but the cap hit of 6.7 mill a year remains the same until after the contract ends (2019/2020 is last season)

nyr1980
12-20-2013, 01:25 PM
The Rangers needs player though. Draft picks which take 4 years to develop and usually miss I don't believe is the answer we're looking for. Especially with a goalie at this age.

Richards - I can't see how anybody would want this contract.

Girardi & Cally - would any of us be shocked to see a trade with Vancouver? I think it's only a matter of time.

Most draft picks take 3-4 years to develop. Only guys drafted very high (top 3-5 picks) are NHL ready. And even then, it's not all that are. Look at Bobby Ryan. Went just behind Crosby in 2005 but it took him 3 seasons to crack the NHL roster full-time.
McDonagh too. Was into his fourth season after drafting to reach the NHL. People forget that because he was good right away.

Then you have another group that takes 2 seasons post be drafted to make it usually. Huberdeau is a good example. He went 3rd and was 3rd in the ISS final rankings. Many felt he was the guy in that draft who would be the best all around player eventually, but was 3rd because he wasn't NHL ready. Sure enough, it took 2 full seasons for him to reach the NHL.

Redfish
12-20-2013, 01:30 PM
I would have liked to have acquired Linus Omark from Edmonton for the 2014, 6th round draft pick Buffalo paid. Not a team shattering trade by any stretch but more than worth a shot at that low of a draft pick.

nyr1980
12-20-2013, 01:39 PM
I would have liked to have acquired Linus Omark from Edmonton for the 2014, 6th round draft pick Buffalo paid. Not a team shattering trade by any stretch but more than worth a shot at that low of a draft pick.

Not a bad flyer to take. But he's 26, too small, and hasn't been ble to really crack the roster on an Edmonton team which is awful.

bsi
12-20-2013, 04:22 PM
Not a bad flyer to take. But he's 26, too small, and hasn't been ble to really crack the roster on an Edmonton team which is awful.

Edmonton has a log jam of players similar but better than Omark, he should probably be in the NHL but he needs the right team, Buffalo is probably right for him but I would have given the 6th for him easily.

nyr1980
12-20-2013, 05:30 PM
Edmonton has a log jam of players similar but better than Omark, he should probably be in the NHL but he needs the right team, Buffalo is probably right for him but I would have given the 6th for him easily.

They do. But you have to figure if he were good enough to, he'd be there by now.

NYSPORTS98
12-20-2013, 07:05 PM
Scott Gomez turned into mcdonagh...Richards right now is a better player than gomez was at his peak.

So what's you point? Richards has been mediocre and has a contract which gets more costly by the year is performing better than lowly Gomez who was traded for McD?

Nobody is touching this contract and one scenario has nothing to do with the other. Shooting into the abyss for a moron taker isn't a plan.

NYSPORTS98
12-20-2013, 07:11 PM
Most draft picks take 3-4 years to develop. Only guys drafted very high (top 3-5 picks) are NHL ready. And even then, it's not all that are. Look at Bobby Ryan. Went just behind Crosby in 2005 but it took him 3 seasons to crack the NHL roster full-time.
McDonagh too. Was into his fourth season after drafting to reach the NHL. People forget that because he was good right away.

Then you have another group that takes 2 seasons post be drafted to make it usually. Huberdeau is a good example. He went 3rd and was 3rd in the ISS final rankings. Many felt he was the guy in that draft who would be the best all around player eventually, but was 3rd because he wasn't NHL ready. Sure enough, it took 2 full seasons for him to reach the NHL.

So after missing the playoffs for half of Brian Leetch's career, trading away picks and prospects for old vets, miserable hockey for 15 years with only Jäger capable of scoring, we finally get a nucleus and despite almost winning the President's trophy we make a trade for Nash, then fire the coach and now it's time for more draft picks? Great, and they just resigned Lundy. Maybe fans will start chanting 1994 when we hit the 50 yr anniversary of trying to build something.

bsi
12-20-2013, 10:07 PM
Scott Gomez turned into mcdonagh...Richards right now is a better player than gomez was at his peak.

So what's you point? Richards has been mediocre and has a contract which gets more costly by the year is performing better than lowly Gomez who was traded for McD?

Nobody is touching this contract and one scenario has nothing to do with the other. Shooting into the abyss for a moron taker isn't a plan.

Nobody was touching gomez's contract either...it was the worst in hockey. But teams who need a piece to get over the hump will take him especially if he continues to play well.

You are actually wrong in your assessment of his contract. The final three years he is only owed 1 million per year in actual cash. His actual cash payment goes down each year from now on, his cap hit stays at 6.6. So a team like say Dallas, Edmonton or florida might find that appealing since we already paid for a big part of his contract up front. For us we are always at the cap so it wont work for us, for others that have more cap than cash this would work for them. Gomez's contract was untradable because he had high cap high dollar. This contract gets better in dollar value as it goes on. As for Richards being mediocre this year, without him we are in the basement right now.

NYSPORTS98
12-20-2013, 11:05 PM
You're right, i'm too obsessed with Richards cap number if he gets injured. One year to buy him out or the number hits the roof with a significant injury.

Mr.Wiskers
12-21-2013, 07:35 PM
Think of it this way, if you're a small market team who can't afford to spend your cap max but want to compete, would you be willing to pickup Richards ? Tho' his cap hit is 6.667 mil. The team who picks him up will actually be paying him an average of 4.5 mil.( he has 6 yrs/27 mil. Left on his contract-8.5 mil/8.5 mil/7 mil./ 1mil/ 1mil/ 1mil.)

SLY WILLIAMS
12-21-2013, 07:53 PM
Think of it this way, if you're a small market team who can't afford to spend your cap max but want to compete, would you be willing to pickup Richards ? Tho' his cap hit is 6.667 mil. The team who picks him up will actually be paying him an average of 4.5 mil.( he has 6 yrs/27 mil. Left on his contract-8.5 mil/8.5 mil/7 mil./ 1mil/ 1mil/ 1mil.)


I would be surprised if anyone picked up that contract because of the cap hit for next year (anything is possible). I like Brad but he is around a 65 point a year player. My question is can a team pick him up as a trade deadline rental and then amnesty the contract in June?

nyr2002nyr
12-21-2013, 09:45 PM
Poor Gaborik

SLY WILLIAMS
12-22-2013, 12:08 PM
Poor Gaborik

I was disappointed to hear of his injury. I still root for many former Rangers.

metswon69
12-22-2013, 12:50 PM
I would be surprised if anyone picked up that contract because of the cap hit for next year (anything is possible). I like Brad but he is around a 65 point a year player. My question is can a team pick him up as a trade deadline rental and then amnesty the contract in June?

I couldn't find much on that subject but apparently there was an article in the Buffalo news that they had quotes from Darcy Regier before he was fired by the Sabres to the extent that you could move players who were amnesty candidates and the team that acquired that player could still amnesty them at the end of the season.

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/first-loophole-in-the-new-nhl-cba/

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130429/SPORTS/130429039/1104

This was from last year so they used Daniel Briere as an example:


For example, if the Philadelphia Flyers were to package Daniel Briere (assuming he waived his no-movement clause) with a pick or prospect to the Sabres in return for a cheaper player, a draft pick, a prospect, or any combination of those three, the Sabres would then buy out the remainder of Briere’s contract, either with one of their own amnesty buyouts, or via the regular buyout process of two-thirds the remaining value of the contract spread over twice the remaining term.

Briere would then become an unrestricted free agent, and ineligible from re-signing with the Sabres for a full season following the buyout.

That said, I don't know how much you would get for Richards under those circumstances. Something is better than nothing though if they are going to let him go anyway after this season.

bsi
12-22-2013, 02:34 PM
I would be surprised if anyone picked up that contract because of the cap hit for next year (anything is possible). I like Brad but he is around a 65 point a year player. My question is can a team pick him up as a trade deadline rental and then amnesty the contract in June?

I couldn't find much on that subject but apparently there was an article in the Buffalo news that they had quotes from Darcy Regier before he was fired by the Sabres to the extent that you could move players who were amnesty candidates and the team that acquired that player could still amnesty them at the end of the season.

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/first-loophole-in-the-new-nhl-cba/

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130429/SPORTS/130429039/1104

This was from last year so they used Daniel Briere as an example:


For example, if the Philadelphia Flyers were to package Daniel Briere (assuming he waived his no-movement clause) with a pick or prospect to the Sabres in return for a cheaper player, a draft pick, a prospect, or any combination of those three, the Sabres would then buy out the remainder of Briere’s contract, either with one of their own amnesty buyouts, or via the regular buyout process of two-thirds the remaining value of the contract spread over twice the remaining term.

Briere would then become an unrestricted free agent, and ineligible from re-signing with the Sabres for a full season following the buyout.

That said, I don't know how much you would get for Richards under those circumstances. Something is better than nothing though if they are going to let him go anyway after this season.

Its less likely that someone would trade for him and buy him out. Our team is one of the lucky ones that can afford those types of moves but I cant see anyone doing that.

metswon69
12-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Its less likely that someone would trade for him and buy him out. Our team is one of the lucky ones that can afford those types of moves but I cant see anyone doing that.

Yeah I don't see it either but maybe there is a team that believes Richard can be a missing piece to a Stanley Cup run while still being concerned about his cap hit in 2014-2015.

Obviously it's quite a risk to whatever team that would entertain that notion.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-22-2013, 02:41 PM
I couldn't find much on that subject but apparently there was an article in the Buffalo news that they had quotes from Darcy Regier before he was fired by the Sabres to the extent that you could move players who were amnesty candidates and the team that acquired that player could still amnesty them at the end of the season.

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/first-loophole-in-the-new-nhl-cba/

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130429/SPORTS/130429039/1104

This was from last year so they used Daniel Briere as an example:


That said, I don't know how much you would get for Richards under those circumstances. Something is better than nothing though if they are going to let him go anyway after this season.


Its less likely that someone would trade for him and buy him out. Our team is one of the lucky ones that can afford those types of moves but I cant see anyone doing that.

Thanks for doing the leg work on that. It is nice to know it is possible even if not probable. During the trade deadline some teams that think they have a shot sometimes overpay for rentals so who knows what might happen this year. I think Brad, Cally, Girardi, and even Nash are possibilities to be moved at the trade deadline although not probable.

bsi
12-22-2013, 02:48 PM
I couldn't find much on that subject but apparently there was an article in the Buffalo news that they had quotes from Darcy Regier before he was fired by the Sabres to the extent that you could move players who were amnesty candidates and the team that acquired that player could still amnesty them at the end of the season.

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/first-loophole-in-the-new-nhl-cba/

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130429/SPORTS/130429039/1104

This was from last year so they used Daniel Briere as an example:


That said, I don't know how much you would get for Richards under those circumstances. Something is better than nothing though if they are going to let him go anyway after this season.


Its less likely that someone would trade for him and buy him out. Our team is one of the lucky ones that can afford those types of moves but I cant see anyone doing that.

Thanks for doing the leg work on that. It is nice to know it is possible even if not probable. During the trade deadline some teams that think they have a shot sometimes overpay for rentals so who knows what might happen this year. I think Brad, Cally, Girardi, and even Nash are possibilities to be moved at the trade deadline although not probable.

Unless Girardi is looking for a homerun of a deal I think he will be stayin. I am less sure about Callahan, I dont think he is Vigneaults idea of a top 6 player.

nyr2002nyr
12-22-2013, 02:51 PM
I was disappointed to hear of his injury. I still root for many former Rangers.

Yeah same here. The poor guy has just had zero luck this year.

IAmARanger18
12-22-2013, 02:56 PM
Just trade for Kane and it solves a lot of problems, 4 points in 3 games since coming back from his injury.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-22-2013, 03:03 PM
Just trade for Kane and it solves a lot of problems, 4 points in 3 games since coming back from his injury.

LOL I do not think Chicago would give Patrick up unless we include Mats in the deal :D

IAmARanger18
12-22-2013, 03:43 PM
LOL I do not think Chicago would give Patrick up unless we include Mats in the deal :D

Come on Sly, you should know me better than that by now. You know i'm talking about my boy EVANDER Kane ;)

Redfish
12-22-2013, 04:41 PM
https://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie/status/414820027796160513

McIlrath left last night's game with a knee injury and is awaiting results from a MRI.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-22-2013, 05:57 PM
Come on Sly, you should know me better than that by now. You know i'm talking about my boy EVANDER Kane ;)

LOL I did know that but only Patrick (or Crosby) is good enough t give up Mats for. :)

SLY WILLIAMS
12-22-2013, 05:58 PM
https://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie/status/414820027796160513

McIlrath left last night's game with a knee injury and is awaiting results from a MRI.

He is such a good kid. He is a natural leader. This is at least his 3rd knee injury. I sure hope he is okay.

JdKing7
12-22-2013, 09:30 PM
He is such a good kid. He is a natural leader. This is at least his 3rd knee injury. I sure hope he is okay.

No update on the results yet?

nyr2002nyr
12-22-2013, 11:06 PM
The boys looked pretty good tonight but once again we need a enforcer for the 4th line. Go get Chris Neil

nyr2002nyr
12-23-2013, 12:05 AM
I did see that Staal is back practicing that's a good sign

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2013, 01:56 PM
Trade rumors mentioned Boyle as well as MDZ

Mr.Wiskers
12-25-2013, 03:49 PM
What trade rumor?

Mr.Wiskers
12-25-2013, 03:55 PM
Boyle and Callahan for Kesler?
OR
Boyle, Cally, and Girardi for Kesler and Edler?
I know, I know ain't gonna happen Vancouver is winning----why mess with it!

Mr.Wiskers
12-25-2013, 03:59 PM
Seriously Sly what's the rumor?

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2013, 04:07 PM
Seriously Sly what's the rumor?

Sorry I did not mean to leave you hanging. I ws just commenting on something I read. I will post it here. :)



Buzz: Two Guys The Rangers Would Like To Move
December 23rd, 2013 3:50 pm

Brian Boyle6:35PM: The Rangers aren’t really shopping players outside of Boyle and Del Zotto (Darren Dreger on TSN 1050)

3:50PM: The Rangers would like to move Michael Del Zotto and/or Brian Boyle (Pierre LeBrun on TSN 1050).

Boyle is someone who could be moved out West (LeBrun)

Boyle is a UFA at the end of the season and is a player that Glen Sather said in August that he gets calls about but isn’t anxious to move.

His cap hit if $1.7 million.

Boyle has one goal, 7 assists and is averaging 13:39 per game for the Rangers. He averaged 2:08 per game on the PK.http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2013-14-players/brian-boyle/buzz-two-guys-the-rangers-would-like-to-move/

Mr.Wiskers
12-25-2013, 04:23 PM
Sly--- Wow! That's service, got up to make a sandwich and boom, you answered my question by the time I came back. Thanks!

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2013, 04:29 PM
Sly--- Wow! That's service, got up to make a sandwich and boom, you answered my question by the time I came back. Thanks!

LOL PSD has a policy that I must answer all questions within 600 seconds or they cut my pay. :D

metswon69
12-25-2013, 04:31 PM
LOL PSD has a policy that I must answer all questions within 600 seconds or they cut my pay. :D

You told me they weren't paying us.

I can't get a straight answer from anyone ;).

SLY WILLIAMS
12-25-2013, 04:51 PM
You told me they weren't paying us.

I can't get a straight answer from anyone ;).

I said they were not paying you not us! :D

NYR_NYJ
12-25-2013, 09:21 PM
I can see the value in Boyle for a team looking for depth. I don't see much coming back in return though.

QUBobcats550
12-27-2013, 12:12 PM
http://fansided.com/2013/12/25/nhl-trade-rumors-new-york-rangers-and-ottawa-senators-reportedly-close-to-trade-for-michael-del-zotto/

I really hope Gryba and Wiercioch are not the return for MDZ; I would hate the move to be honest.

Yankee Clipper
12-27-2013, 12:12 PM
Sorry I did not mean to leave you hanging. I ws just commenting on something I read. I will post it here. :)

http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/2013-14-players/brian-boyle/buzz-two-guys-the-rangers-would-like-to-move/

I think it's definitely time to start looking to move Del Zotto. His play has been so erratic it's unbearable.

QUBobcats550
12-27-2013, 12:20 PM
I think it's definitely time to start looking to move Del Zotto. His play has been so erratic it's unbearable.

I think it started a while ago.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-27-2013, 12:24 PM
I think it started a while ago.

I hate to give up on MDZ but I do understand why many fans have. MDZ reminds me a little of former Ranger Mike McEwen except Mike McEwen was a 20 goal or 50 point guy in some seasons.

QUBobcats550
12-27-2013, 12:44 PM
I hate to give up on MDZ but I do understand why many fans have. MDZ reminds me a little of former Ranger Mike McEwen except Mike McEwen was a 20 goal or 50 point guy in some seasons.

I like MDZ a lot and he's still only 23 years old, so maybe his inconsistency can be contributed to growing pains or a part of the maturation process. The only way I would move him is if we can get a top 4 right-handed defenseman or a top 6 winger with a "shoot first" mentality, in return. Otherwise, hold onto him.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-27-2013, 12:54 PM
I like MDZ a lot and he's still only 23 years old, so maybe his inconsistency can be contributed to growing pains or a part of the maturation process. The only way I would move him is if we can get a top 4 right-handed defenseman or a top 6 winger with a "shoot first" mentality, in return. Otherwise, hold onto him.

Brooks says we have been trying to get a top 4 RH shooting dman.

We are selling low now. Two seasons ago we would have been selling high.

QUBobcats550
12-27-2013, 12:57 PM
Brooks says we have been trying to get a top 4 RH shooting dman.

We are selling low now. Two seasons ago we would have been selling high.

Good point, but I don't like it.

I've also read rumors involving Kulikov from Florida.

nyr2002nyr
12-27-2013, 01:32 PM
I know he is still young but sometimes players need a change of scenery to get it going again. The way it looks now it's not going to happen in NY

SLY WILLIAMS
12-27-2013, 01:54 PM
I know he is still young but sometimes players need a change of scenery to get it going again. The way it looks now it's not going to happen in NY

That is true. I just want to get good value for him if we do trade him. I do not want to trade him for nothing. I would hope for at least a high 2nd round pick.

QUBobcats550
12-27-2013, 02:44 PM
That is true. I just want to get good value for him if we do trade him. I do not want to trade him for nothing. I would hope for at least a high 2nd round pick.

IMO, that wouldn't be enough of a return for me.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-27-2013, 02:58 PM
IMO, that wouldn't be enough of a return for me.

You may be right. I think we got two 2nd round picks for Bobby S and he has never had the NHL success that MDZ has had. On the other hand I see former 1st round picks go for 3rd round picks as well. LOL I'm confused. :)

QUBobcats550
12-27-2013, 03:10 PM
You may be right. I think we got two 2nd round picks for Bobby S and he has never had the NHL success that MDZ has had. On the other hand I see former 2st round picks go for 3rd round picks as well. LOL I'm confused. :)

lol you and me both.

nyr2002nyr
12-27-2013, 06:04 PM
IMO, that wouldn't be enough of a return for me.

I pretty much agree with you both. I would also like more in return but truth is we are selling low. We have given him time to get better and he is not playing BAD but more average at this time. A 2nd will be fine if its all we can get since we don't want him to walk for nothing and I think if he continues to play this way and we don't trade him we will get stuck with nothing in return as its obvious we are not going to resign him

nyr2002nyr
12-27-2013, 06:32 PM
Does trading Hank become an option if Cam continues to play this way all season?

SLY WILLIAMS
12-27-2013, 06:42 PM
Does trading Hank become an option if Cam continues to play this way all season?

It would take a lot for us to trade Hank. If Cam was a higher rated prospect coming in to this season I think we would have more trust in him to continue this kind of play and then Hank might be available. I did not expect anything like this out of Cam. He has really played above expectations.

nyr2002nyr
12-27-2013, 06:50 PM
It would take a lot for us to trade Hank. If Cam was a higher rated prospect coming in to this season I think we would have more trust in him to continue this kind of play and then Hank might be available. I did not expect anything like this out of Cam. He has really played above expectations.

Remember his NMC kicks in after this season

SLY WILLIAMS
12-27-2013, 07:04 PM
Remember his NMC kicks in after this season

LOL make me an offer. I'm open. Start with a young goalie prospect, and a dman. Throw in some draft picks as well. :)

nyr2002nyr
12-27-2013, 07:17 PM
LOL make me an offer. I'm open. Start with a young goalie prospect, and a dman. Throw in some draft picks as well. :)

haha I heard that!. I was just thinking it really is now or never after this year it wont happen

SLY WILLIAMS
12-27-2013, 07:29 PM
haha I heard that!. I was just thinking it really is now or never after this year it wont happen

Maybe the NMC would stop a trade but I think those NMC clauses are sometimes over blown. I say that because most players do not want to be where they are not wanted. Often they will waive the clause or work with the team by giving a list of teams they would accept.

bsi
12-28-2013, 12:36 AM
Sorry but they aren't trading Hank. They just resigned him, they still believe in him as do I, its just a bump in the road for him. Maybe he is too focused on the Olympics, has a nagging injury or whatever but this isnt the real Hendrik we are seeing, hopefully he is able to get the next start even though Talbot was fine with the exception of the 3rd goal.

nyr2002nyr
12-28-2013, 02:09 AM
Sorry but they aren't trading Hank. They just resigned him, they still believe in him as do I, its just a bump in the road for him. Maybe he is too focused on the Olympics, has a nagging injury or whatever but this isnt the real Hendrik we are seeing, hopefully he is able to get the next start even though Talbot was fine with the exception of the 3rd goal.

A bump in the road has been a major slump for him. He has never struggles at the NHL level until now. And as he is getting older it's not going to get any better. He is going to have to show he can be the hank of old for more then a few games to prove something to himself,his teammates and the fans

bsi
12-28-2013, 11:31 AM
Sorry but they aren't trading Hank. They just resigned him, they still believe in him as do I, its just a bump in the road for him. Maybe he is too focused on the Olympics, has a nagging injury or whatever but this isnt the real Hendrik we are seeing, hopefully he is able to get the next start even though Talbot was fine with the exception of the 3rd goal.

A bump in the road has been a major slump for him. He has never struggles at the NHL level until now. And as he is getting older it's not going to get any better. He is going to have to show he can be the hank of old for more then a few games to prove something to himself,his teammates and the fans

He isnt old, he is in a goaltenders prime. He definately needs to be better but I dont think he is all of a sudden a bad goalie. I will take the years of consistancy over 25 bad games in one year.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-28-2013, 11:57 AM
I do not think we can trade Hank unless we got back a very good goalie or goalie prospect but I will admit this season has scared me so far when Hank has been playing.

Nashs contract scares me as well. I wish the NHL would limit all contracts to 5 years.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-28-2013, 11:58 AM
Rumors say Rangers are trying to make a deal this weekend. It may be greater than MDZ.

bsi
12-28-2013, 12:44 PM
Rumors say Rangers are trying to make a deal this weekend. It may be greater than MDZ.

I have a feeling Girardi's impending contract is worrying the team more than DelZotto.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-28-2013, 01:07 PM
I have a feeling Girardi's impending contract is worrying the team more than DelZotto.

Maybe it is because I like Dan a lot but he does not seem to be the kind of player that chases the top dollar. I would like to resign him for 3 years and 13 mill.

bsi
12-28-2013, 03:21 PM
I have a feeling Girardi's impending contract is worrying the team more than DelZotto.

Maybe it is because I like Dan a lot but he does not seem to be the kind of player that chases the top dollar. I would like to resign him for 3 years and 13 mill.

I think he will be justifyably looking for close to 5 per year and a longer deal than that. He is always top 5 in the minutes played category. My guess if he signs with the rangers it will be a minimum want of 5 yrs for anywhere between 23-27 mill range and I am on the fence with whether we keep or trade him. My only issue is that with Staal constantly hurt that maybe we cant afford to lose another d man especially if DZ is on the market and Moore has shown the reasons he was expendable to the Jackets.

I also think Girardi would normally be reasonable but everyone else is getting paid and nobody including Lundqvist has taken the team helping discount so why should he take less to give more to others. In order for the team discounts to work they have to filter from the top down not the other way around. With Richards, Nash, and Hendrik getting paid good money he wont likely take a discount pay day either.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-28-2013, 03:26 PM
I think he will be justifyably looking for close to 5 per year and a longer deal than that. He is always top 5 in the minutes played category. My guess if he signs with the rangers it will be a minimum want of 5 yrs for anywhere between 23-27 mill range and I am on the fence with whether we keep or trade him. My only issue is that with Staal constantly hurt that maybe we cant afford to lose another d man especially if DZ is on the market and Moore has shown the reasons he was expendable to the Jackets.

I also think Girardi would normally be reasonable but everyone else is getting paid and nobody including Lundqvist has taken the team helping discount so why should he take less to give more to others. In order for the team discounts to work they have to filter from the top down not the other way around. With Richards, Nash, and Hendrik getting paid good money he wont likely take a discount pay day either.

I can see why Moore was a first round pick and I can see why Columbus traded him. He looked so promising last season. I still hope he turns it around. I'd like to keep Dan if it is for a reasonable amount of years and salary. I think Staal may stay in part because he is a risk to trade for.

IAmARanger18
12-28-2013, 03:42 PM
DZ will be traded soon enough, like Weiorcoch from Ottawa if we can swing a deal for him. Kid has a bomb of a shot on the point, would certainly help the PP.

Mr.Wiskers
12-28-2013, 09:35 PM
Buzz: Who The Rangers Want From Ottawa For A Michael Del Zotto*Trade
December 28th, 2013 1:15 pm
The Rangers are believed to be “demanding” Marc Methot from the Ottawa Senators in any potential deal for Michael Del Zotto. (Ottawa Sun)

The Rangers won’t get Methot but may be able to get Patrick Wiercicoch. Weircioch has been a scratch lately but has “upside potential. (Ottawa Sun)

The Leafs, Sharks and Avs are interested in Del Zotto but the Rangers may have to change their asking price. (Ottawa Sun)

A league executive says that Del Zotto’s value has gone down and that he isn’t worth what he was earlier in the year. (Ottawa Sun)

For more on Del Zotto trade rumors, CLICK HERE.

Mehot is averaging 21:31 per game for Ottawa this season. He is signed through next season at $3 million.

Weircioch, 23, is averaging over 17 minutes per game and has two goals and 11 assists. He was a second round pick in 2008. He is signed for two more seasons at $2 million.
---------
I would personally try for Ceci, he's a 1st Rd pick, a right handed shot, and only 21 yrs old.

Mr.Wiskers
12-28-2013, 09:58 PM
Something tells me Girardi will be traded, cause he doesn't have the speed or puck moving ability AV's system requires.
-----
I can admit the whole concussion thing and with Staal and Nash missing so much time with them. I would be looking at moving them before the next one---which could be the last one.

Mr.Wiskers
12-29-2013, 03:34 PM
Found this on SNY rangers blog---thought it was interesting.
-----------
12/28/13: 8:37PM: On Hockey Night in Canada, Elliotte Freidman said, “Stralman, a right handed shot got hurt last night and Del Zotto played 24 minutes. There was some thought that the Rangers would pull him back but there are still teams that think it will get dealt.”

Glenn Healy said, “if the Rangers trade him it will be a D for a D because of the Stralman situation but look for the Boston Bruins to call the Rangers about Dan Girardi. That is going to happen because that is a good player and there is no deal done. He isn’t for a whole host of a ransom but it still isn’t done. If they can get a lot back they will make that move.”

Friedman also wonders if Anaheim will be a player for Girardi.

bsi
12-29-2013, 03:42 PM
null

Saw that on cbc. Still dont think there is a fit unless Boston uncharacteristically blows out doors off with an offer.

Mr.Wiskers
12-29-2013, 04:17 PM
Not that I'm saying it's him but I saw reports that the Bruins are tiring of Marchands antics and may be looking to move him.
Personally I hate the guy and if I saw him on the street I'd straighten out that big nose of his.

bsi
12-29-2013, 04:56 PM
Not that I'm saying it's him but I saw reports that the Bruins are tiring of Marchands antics and may be looking to move him.
Personally I hate the guy and if I saw him on the street I'd straighten out that big nose of his.

I would take him for sure but Thorton would have to come with him, I just think our team is too weak to have him being a pest. He can score, pk, pp, and he is a LW, everything but size that we need. He is able to play bigger than his body thanks to Lucic, Thorton and Chara and I think that would be a problem for him here. Having said all that we need Conor Allen or someone to be able to take on some big time minutes if we were letting Girardi leave. Girardi is a key element on this team and he would need to be replaced in some capacity, I am not at all confident Staal will ever play 82 games a year again.

Mr.Wiskers
12-29-2013, 08:29 PM
You're right that's why I hate him sooo much, he starts sh** and waits for the big guys to step in and save him.
-----
I know there's a slim chance but I'd rather have Evander Kane or Ryan Kesler, if we could come up with a package.

bsi
12-29-2013, 08:53 PM
You're right that's why I hate him sooo much, he starts sh** and waits for the big guys to step in and save him.
-----
I know there's a slim chance but I'd rather have Evander Kane or Ryan Kesler, if we could come up with a package.

Absolutely zero chance Kesler leaves Vancouver. Kane maybe but not Kesler.

QUBobcats550
12-30-2013, 11:32 AM
I'd be very upset if they were to move Girardi.

redwhiteandblue
12-30-2013, 03:39 PM
Girardi is a (potentially) expandable piece if there ever was one.

Can't let emotions get in the middle of making smart decisions.

nyr1980
12-31-2013, 03:59 PM
Leafs apparently shopping/taking offers for Kadri.

Any interest/thoughts on price?

SLY WILLIAMS
12-31-2013, 04:37 PM
Leafs apparently shopping/taking offers for Kadri.

Any interest/thoughts on price?

Why are they shopping him? The guy is very talented.

bsi
12-31-2013, 05:14 PM
Leafs apparently shopping/taking offers for Kadri.

Any interest/thoughts on price?

Why are they shopping him? The guy is very talented.

Dont think him and Carlyle see eye to eye. Be a big price on him, dont think conversations start with us without Kreider or McDonagh joining the discussion, both non starters for Sather I would say. Kadri would be a player I wouldn't mind trading a 1st pick for though because of his talent and age. So if it was like 1st, DelZotto for him I would take it, dont think that does it though.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-31-2013, 05:46 PM
Dont think him and Carlyle see eye to eye. Be a big price on him, dont think conversations start with us without Kreider or McDonagh joining the discussion, both non starters for Sather I would say. Kadri would be a player I wouldn't mind trading a 1st pick for though because of his talent and age. So if it was like 1st, DelZotto for him I would take it, dont think that does it though.

MdD and Kreider will not be included. I'd be okay with that trade with the draft pick but rather trade a forward since we have a log jam. Could even make it a larger package and include some of Cally? Nash? Boyle? Moore? Dorsett?

bsi
12-31-2013, 06:11 PM
Dont think him and Carlyle see eye to eye. Be a big price on him, dont think conversations start with us without Kreider or McDonagh joining the discussion, both non starters for Sather I would say. Kadri would be a player I wouldn't mind trading a 1st pick for though because of his talent and age. So if it was like 1st, DelZotto for him I would take it, dont think that does it though.

MdD and Kreider will not be included. I'd be okay with that trade with the draft pick but rather trade a forward since we have a log jam. Could even make it a larger package and include some of Cally? Nash? Boyle? Moore? Dorsett?

I am ok with having depth at forward really, especialy given our rash of injuries this year but if I was to pick someone out of that to trade in a deal it unfortunately would have to be Boyle considering his contract status, would still have to give up DelZotto and the first, but maybe get Mark Fraser back for some toughness or Frazer McLaren. Its a hard trade to make because I am sure Toronto would want players we dont want to give up.

Yankee Clipper
01-01-2014, 01:06 PM
418426410206654464

Redfish
01-01-2014, 01:34 PM
418426410206654464

I was wondering why this was taking so long. Regardless, it will be interesting to see ow AV adjusts the lineup to make room for our captain.

Yankee Clipper
01-01-2014, 01:40 PM
I was wondering why this was taking so long. Regardless, it will be interesting to see ow AV adjusts the lineup to make room for our captain.

Really hope he can stay healthy. He adds so much more depth when he's in the lineup.

Mr.Wiskers
01-01-2014, 03:09 PM
I was reading an article from Bleacher Report---Is trading for Nazem Kadri anything more than a pipedream for the NY Rangers?
---The highlights, tho' only mentioned, it once again brings up the fact that buyingout Richards makes sense( because of the annual cap hit).
---option A Kadri,Gardner and '14 2nd Rd. pick for Girardi,MDZ, and '13 4th Rd pick
---option B Kadri,Gardiner for Girardi,Brassard and '14 3rd Rd pick
Either way giving us Kadri,Stepan,Brassard,Miller or if Brassard is dealt Lindberg lining up in the middle.
What do you guys think? Keep in mind Kadri has only avg. .63 pts per gm. And Stepan has avg. .60 pts per gm. For their careers.

metswon69
01-01-2014, 04:02 PM
I was reading an article from Bleacher Report---Is trading for Nazem Kadri anything more than a pipedream for the NY Rangers?
---The highlights, tho' only mentioned, it once again brings up the fact that buyingout Richards makes sense( because of the annual cap hit).
---option A Kadri,Gardner and '14 2nd Rd. pick for Girardi,MDZ, and '13 4th Rd pick
---option B Kadri,Gardiner for Girardi,Brassard and '14 3rd Rd pick
Either way giving us Kadri,Stepan,Brassard,Miller or if Brassard is dealt Lindberg lining up in the middle.
What do you guys think? Keep in mind Kadri has only avg. .63 pts per gm. And Stepan has avg. .60 pts per gm. For their careers.

I would definitely lean option A if it's a realistic trade possibility. As much as I like MDZ and his potential, I don't think he fits AV's philosophy in terms of his style of play and MDZ's individual play has been inconsistent at best this year. Girardi is a UFA who is in line for a raise and I'm not sure the Rangers are or should be going all out in their efforts to re-sign him. He's got quite a number of miles on him for a 29 year old defenseman.

Gardiner is a RFA who will presumably be a smaller cap hit and has the makings of a solid defenseman, although has some inconsistency issues like MDZ. They also get a guy in Kadri who has offensive talent and can help when the Rangers buy out Richards and depending on what happens with Callahan during or after the season.

Redfish
01-01-2014, 06:25 PM
When a player like Kadri is potentially available, the Rangers have to, and will, assess his cost. Coincidentally, it involves one of the teams reportedly on the short list of those seriously interested in Del Zotto. So, hopefully there are some natural wants and needs here that lead to serious trade discussions.

nyr2002nyr
01-01-2014, 09:36 PM
I would definitely lean option A if it's a realistic trade possibility. As much as I like MDZ and his potential, I don't think he fits AV's philosophy in terms of his style of play and MDZ's individual play has been inconsistent at best this year. Girardi is a UFA who is in line for a raise and I'm not sure the Rangers are or should be going all out in their efforts to re-sign him. He's got quite a number of miles on him for a 29 year old defenseman.

Gardiner is a RFA who will presumably be a smaller cap hit and has the makings of a solid defenseman, although has some inconsistency issues like MDZ. They also get a guy in Kadri who has offensive talent and can help when the Rangers buy out Richards and depending on what happens with Callahan during or after the season.

Not a fan of either deal myself. I just spent 2 days at a New Years/winter classic party at a friends house. Most all the people I was with are all leafs fans. They loved either deal!!! They were more then happy to move Kadri anyway they could.

nyr2002nyr
01-01-2014, 09:54 PM
I guess Pyatt getting waived was no shock. I think AV gave him every chance he could have to produce

metswon69
01-01-2014, 10:23 PM
Not a fan of either deal myself. I just spent 2 days at a New Years/winter classic party at a friends house. Most all the people I was with are all leafs fans. They loved either deal!!! They were more then happy to move Kadri anyway they could.

I know Kadri has had a down season but he's a relatively small cap hit in 2014-2015 (2.9 million) and they are going to need to find some offense if they amnesty Richards, trade/not re-sign Callahan, and depending on what they do with Brassard. I know next year's class of FA has some pieces like Penner, Thornton, Grabovski, Vrbata, that could help but I would bring in Kadri if those are the stakes of the deal.

Mr.Wiskers
01-02-2014, 07:04 AM
Tomas Vanek is the big name that pops at me. Surprised the Islanders dealt for him and haven't signed him. What was it Moulson and a 1st Rd pick!
Also Downie( a little short but physical and can put up 30-40 pts),Orpik( I doubt Pitt. Will let him go but is big and physical and has a good shot),Setoguchi( fast and can score),Carcillo( physical/ enforcer), Gaborik(would be had on the cheaper side because of injuries and I think would bounce back under AV system) and Heatley( on the cheap #'s have deminished last couple of yrs but does the little things)---last 2 if we do compliance buyout Richards.

nyr2002nyr
01-02-2014, 01:14 PM
Pens claimed Pyatt

nyr2002nyr
01-02-2014, 01:23 PM
Wild waive Konopka

Redfish
01-02-2014, 01:34 PM
Wild waive Konopka

Should we consider Konopka? He is tough, defensively responsible and great at face-offs. $925k cap hit.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-02-2014, 01:42 PM
Pens claimed Pyatt

That is good to hear.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-02-2014, 01:43 PM
Should we consider Konopka? He is tough, defensively responsible and great at face-offs. $925k cap hit.

Interesting question. If you sign him what do you do with Boyle/Moore?

Redfish
01-02-2014, 01:47 PM
Interesting question. If you sign him what do you do with Boyle/Moore?

As much as I like Brian Boyle, his $1.7mm cap hit and UFA status makes him questionable value to this team (at that price) and vulnerable to a trade. I also think he has developed a nice reputation as a guy that rises to the occasion during playoffs, which are often tilted one way or another by fringe players that grind things out.

In short, I think Boyle can be traded for a late 2nd round pick by a team intending to make a deep playoff run. When considered with these other factors, I would trade him for a late 2nd round pick and sign Konopka at almost half the price. As I am sure you've noticed, we are a team that can be physically pushed around at times.

Dominic Moore? I would plan to off-load or waive him, period. Great guy and teammate; but I would move on from him; not really a fan of his level of contributions.

nyr2002nyr
01-02-2014, 01:48 PM
Interesting question. If you sign him what do you do with Boyle/Moore?

Tough call here but if they bring in Konopka then Boyle is a goner

nyr2002nyr
01-02-2014, 01:49 PM
And Cally is off IR!

SLY WILLIAMS
01-02-2014, 01:56 PM
As much as I like Brian Boyle, his $1.7mm cap hit and UFA status makes him questionable value to this team (at that price) and vulnerable to a trade. I also think he has developed a nice reputation as a guy that rises to the occasion during playoffs, which are often tilted one way or another by fringe players that grind things out.

In short, I think Boyle can be traded for a late 2nd round pick by a team intending to make a deep playoff run. When considered with these other factors, I would trade him for a late 2nd round pick and sign Konopka at almost half the price. As I am sure you've noticed, we are a team that can be physically pushed around at times.

Dominic Moore? I would plan to off-load or waive him, period. Great guy and teammate; but I would move on from him; not really a fan of his level of contributions.


Tough call here but if they bring in Konopka then Boyle is a goner

It is a interesting dilemma. If we could get a 2nd round pick for Boyle I think Slats would do it. I just do not know if his value is near that high. Konopka is a better face off guy and is a tougher fighter but he has almost no offense. Not that Boyle and Moore are making anyone forget Gretzky. I think Boyle and Moore could definitely be traded near the trade deadline for assorted draft picks but do any teams reach for them now?

nyr2002nyr
01-02-2014, 02:01 PM
It is a interesting dilemma. If we could get a 2nd round pick for Boyle I think Slats would do it. I just do not know if his value is near that high. Konopka is a better face off guy and is a tougher fighter but he has almost no offense. Not that Boyle and Moore are making anyone forget Gretzky. I think Boyle and Moore could definitely be traded near the trade deadline for assorted draft picks but do any teams reach for them now?

yeah as far as offense Konopka brings nothing to the table....That being said Boyles 8 points arent either. If you cant get a 2nd or package him with MDZ for a better player go for it

metswon69
01-02-2014, 02:02 PM
Tomas Vanek is the big name that pops at me. Surprised the Islanders dealt for him and haven't signed him. What was it Moulson and a 1st Rd pick!
Also Downie( a little short but physical and can put up 30-40 pts),Orpik( I doubt Pitt. Will let him go but is big and physical and has a good shot),Setoguchi( fast and can score),Carcillo( physical/ enforcer), Gaborik(would be had on the cheaper side because of injuries and I think would bounce back under AV system) and Heatley( on the cheap #'s have deminished last couple of yrs but does the little things)---last 2 if we do compliance buyout Richards.

I think the Rangers need some size personally, that's why I thought of Penner. He's tough, uses his size well, and can put up 50 or so points. I like Thornton too for obvious reasons and the Rangers could use help at C with Richards being most likely amnestied and depending on what happens with Brassard. I like Vanek and was going to mention him but he's another guy who is going to get a long term deal with a crazy cap hit. Orpik is a guy I like too but I think the Pens re-sign him like you mentioned and I wouldn't mind bringing Gabby back.

The Rangers definitely need some size and a shot from the point. I really like Penner and hopefully they can bring in a solid scorer like Vanek or Thornton.

IAmARanger18
01-02-2014, 03:58 PM
We don't need anymore bottom line players, we have enough. Though I like Kenopka, we don't need anymore.

Mr.Wiskers
01-02-2014, 08:36 PM
Metswon69---I posted those guys in addition to your guys, just making the list longer---looking at secondary guys if we decide to let Boyle and Moore go and buyout Richards.

metswon69
01-02-2014, 08:48 PM
Metswon69---I posted those guys in addition to your guys, just making the list longer---looking at secondary guys if we decide to let Boyle and Moore go and buyout Richards.

I know I was just adding my input. I like the suggestions because they are going to have multiple needs next offseason not just high profile ones.

bsi
01-02-2014, 11:57 PM
I disagree about bottom line guys, while I don't think we need more of them, we need atleast one different one. We need an enforcer, someone that makes Zuccarello and Hagelin 6ft tall, and keeps people from taking that extra wack at the goalie. It would be good if he was a heavyweight that could skate and hit, and if he can score even better.

bsi
01-03-2014, 12:36 AM
Also, not sure if it was mentioned but Pyatt was claimed by the Pens.

nyr2002nyr
01-03-2014, 09:11 AM
I disagree about bottom line guys, while I don't think we need more of them, we need atleast one different one. We need an enforcer, someone that makes Zuccarello and Hagelin 6ft tall, and keeps people from taking that extra wack at the goalie. It would be good if he was a heavyweight that could skate and hit, and if he can score even better.

Its very important and has been very obvious lately that we need one. Do they play Pyatt tonight against us?

bsi
01-03-2014, 11:06 AM
I disagree about bottom line guys, while I don't think we need more of them, we need atleast one different one. We need an enforcer, someone that makes Zuccarello and Hagelin 6ft tall, and keeps people from taking that extra wack at the goalie. It would be good if he was a heavyweight that could skate and hit, and if he can score even better.

Its very important and has been very obvious lately that we need one. Do they play Pyatt tonight against us?

Never heard if he is dressing or not. Its a good add to their pk. Wish we could have snaked atleast a 4th or 5th pick out of him.

Redfish
01-03-2014, 11:37 AM
I disagree about bottom line guys, while I don't think we need more of them, we need atleast one different one. We need an enforcer, someone that makes Zuccarello and Hagelin 6ft tall, and keeps people from taking that extra wack at the goalie. It would be good if he was a heavyweight that could skate and hit, and if he can score even better.

I concur and think this is actually a major issue for the team. Basically, I view bottom six players as doing the dirty work and enhancing opportunities for the top 6 players. Whether that be in the form of physically wearing down opponents; being a force to keep our top 6 six protected; neutralizing opponent top lines; or generating offense that takes the burden off the top 6, our bottom six are all too often just consuming minutes and not contributing in these areas. Prust, Fedetenko, Rupp, Anisimov, Dubinsky and Mitchell made for a very strong collection of players that, as a unit, helped in each of these important areas our top 6 need support in.

Boyle remains from that core bottom six but we replaced those others with Pouliot, Pyatt (now w/Pens), Asham, D Moore, Dorsett and Brassard. Not bad, but we need to change a few more of these players for rugged guys that can put up some points -- not an easy task for Sather, by any stretch.

bsi
01-03-2014, 01:28 PM
Callahan in tonight Miller scratched.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-03-2014, 01:52 PM
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger


Rangers in Toronto tomorrow. Expect Del Zotto's agents (Newport) to meet with NYR's brass to discuss Rangers continued efforts to trade him.

Redfish
01-03-2014, 02:34 PM
Callahan in tonight Miller scratched.

That's too bad for Miller; AV did go out of his way though to say Miller has been playing well, and that it is just a numbers issue.

The question is: how do the "numbers" get resolved? Waiting until next season after Richards is presumably bought out can't be the answer, could it?

bsi
01-03-2014, 04:42 PM
Callahan in tonight Miller scratched.

That's too bad for Miller; AV did go out of his way though to say Miller has been playing well, and that it is just a numbers issue.

The question is: how do the "numbers" get resolved? Waiting until next season after Richards is presumably bought out can't be the answer, could it?

I love Miller dont get me wrong but he is no Richards, someone else will have to fill that hole.

nyr2002nyr
01-03-2014, 05:38 PM
NEWS: Del Zotto's people will be meeting with Sather tomorrow regarding a trade, SOURCE: Larry Brooks

bsi
01-03-2014, 06:00 PM
NEWS: Del Zotto's people will be meeting with Sather tomorrow regarding a trade, SOURCE: Larry Brooks

I think this will come back to bite us but if he isnt gonna be played then trade him

metswon69
01-03-2014, 06:35 PM
I think this will come back to bite us but if he isnt gonna be played then trade him

Yeah I'd hate to see a guy with his potential be moved but he's just been too inconsistent this year. Wonder what kind of package they are going to move him in or if they move him for draft picks?

nyr2002nyr
01-03-2014, 06:36 PM
I think this will come back to bite us but if he isnt gonna be played then trade him

We have gone over this. He needs a change of scenery he isint getting any better here

Mr.Wiskers
01-03-2014, 07:47 PM
Larry brooks also said that MDZ has the same agents as Girardi, could be that they are just there because they are negotiating Girardi's contract extension.

Yankee Clipper
01-03-2014, 09:59 PM
Yeah I'd hate to see a guy with his potential be moved but he's just been too inconsistent this year. Wonder what kind of package they are going to move him in or if they move him for draft picks?

He definitely needs to go. I'm also interested to see what they can potentially get for him since his stock isn't that high at the moment.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 12:59 PM
Should we have tried to get Konopka? Its okay to have a scoring 3rd line but we need some toughness on the 4th line and we needs some toughness on defense. We have talent on defense but no toughness. Guys on other teams crosshceck and slash our forwards in the crease area. We barely touch anyone.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 01:21 PM
I'm really worried about Hank. Every time he looks like he has snapped out of it he has a below Hank game. I wish I at least knew what the problem has been for him this season.

fingerbang
01-04-2014, 01:33 PM
Hank was fine last night, made a lot of tough saves. When this team stops playing ****** turnover hockey his numbers will rebound.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 01:34 PM
Hank was fine last night, made a lot of tough saves. When this team stops playing ****** turnover hockey his numbers will rebound.

I did not see the game but the stats said that Pitt had more turnovers and we had more takeaways.

J4KOP99
01-04-2014, 01:40 PM
Sly, you have to believe us when we say last night was not hanks fault. He was hung out to dry numerous times.

I think I have been pretty harsh on hank this year but last night was not on him.

J4KOP99
01-04-2014, 01:43 PM
And you know that stats do not tell the whole story. All it says is turnover. Not whether or not kunitZ lost it in the neutral zone or girardi gave it up 5 feet in front of the net.

fingerbang
01-04-2014, 01:49 PM
I did not see the game but the stats said that Pitt had more turnovers and we had more takeaways.

The first goal Crosby redirects a shot on the PP to Kunitz. The second goal was a sweet one timer off the inner post by Jokinen because Pou forgets to play defense. Jokinen somehow gets open for the third goal through the slot because the Rangers don't like to backcheck. The fourth goal was the sloppiest of the game. Three Rangers are in the area and manage to cough up the puck to Kunitz while simultaneously leaving Crosby wide open in front of the net. On the fifth goal everyone stands around, no one takes their man or clears the puck, and Hank freaks out after the goal.

The guy has no chance. This team is sloppy and they don't take their defensive responsibilities seriously.

And as usual the Rangers shot a bunch of pucks into the opposing goalies chest and didn't score until garbage time.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 01:53 PM
I'm not saying it was Hanks fault last night. I did not see the game so that would be silly but I do not believe Hank has been Hank this season. In the past what made Hank great was he made the saves he should make but also cleaned up other people's mistakes. Thats what makes a great goalie great. I'm not down on Hank. I just want him to be the Hank we have known for years.

NYSPORTS98
01-04-2014, 02:02 PM
Hank reminds me so much of Vanbiesbrouck. Saves when make your draw drop and goals allowed which drop your jaw even farther.

Maybe Talbot is the next Richter? Buy low sell high for once Sather. Can't move Lundy after being awarded a contract while in a slump but can move Talbot.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 02:09 PM
Hank reminds me so much of Vanbiesbrouck. Saves when make your draw drop and goals allowed which drop your jaw even farther.

Maybe Talbot is the next Richter? Buy low sell high for once Sather. Can't move Lundy after being awarded a contract while in a slump but can move Talbot.

I like Cam. I think he righted this ship when we were lost by just making the basic saves but I do not know if he is a long time solution. I also do not think his value is very high. He could bring something back in a trade but I would not expect much. If Hank could not be moved because of the contract than that tells me something is wrong. Either the contract is too high or Hank is not playing at that level. The new contract has not even kicked in yet.

fingerbang
01-04-2014, 02:21 PM
Hypothetically, Hank could only be moved to a contender that also has a need for a goalie and a lot of cap space to spare. Unless I'm missing a team, that market is nonexistent. Why Sather jumped the gun and gave Hank his extension the second Talbot had a bad game is beyond me.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 02:33 PM
Hypothetically, Hank could only be moved to a contender that also has a need for a goalie and a lot of cap space to spare. Unless I'm missing a team, that market is nonexistent. Why Sather jumped the gun and gave Hank his extension the second Talbot had a bad game is beyond me.

I usually have faith in Slats but I also was surprised at that time.

bsi
01-04-2014, 03:37 PM
The problem with losing Lundqvist to the Ranger organization is that he is the face of this franchise, pretty much the only face of this franchise. The Rangers have a lot riding on him outside of the actual game of hockey as far as marketing their brand goes. I agree with you all about it being a bad signing at the time they did it but I think this was as much about the brand as it was the goalie, that shouldn't happen but it did. As far as trading him, I don't think that's the solution to our problem, he wasn't bad last night and the two games before that he was really good. The problem lies in Nash, Stepan and now Richards, three of the 4 guys along with Callahan that are supposed to provide 80% of the offense of this team, and they aren't and Callahan has been hurt all year. If those guys get it together we're a good team, if they don't we are a .500 team. It's up to them, but I have a feeling that Nash was told to stay healthy by Yzerman and he will be on team Canada as Yzerman has a ton of faith in him and continues to say he should make it because he has been so good for Canada over the years. With him stale it drags Stepan down. If I am Vigneault I start benching him, if he starts being benched then the conversation starts to become that he can't even play for NY let alone Canada so he will have to step it up, he's playing not to get hit, he isn't using his body at all. One play last night he was going on a 2 on 2 and normally he cuts wide with speed and bulls his way to the net but this time as soon as he got close to the D he stopped dead and lost the puck. If he isn't healthy enough to play, then sit him and dress Miller. Zucs, Brass and Pouliot are all outplaying him and getting less minutes.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 04:00 PM
The problem with losing Lundqvist to the Ranger organization is that he is the face of this franchise, pretty much the only face of this franchise. The Rangers have a lot riding on him outside of the actual game of hockey as far as marketing their brand goes. I agree with you all about it being a bad signing at the time they did it but I think this was as much about the brand as it was the goalie, that shouldn't happen but it did. As far as trading him, I don't think that's the solution to our problem, he wasn't bad last night and the two games before that he was really good. The problem lies in Nash, Stepan and now Richards, three of the 4 guys along with Callahan that are supposed to provide 80% of the offense of this team, and they aren't and Callahan has been hurt all year. If those guys get it together we're a good team, if they don't we are a .500 team. It's up to them, but I have a feeling that Nash was told to stay healthy by Yzerman and he will be on team Canada as Yzerman has a ton of faith in him and continues to say he should make it because he has been so good for Canada over the years. With him stale it drags Stepan down. If I am Vigneault I start benching him, if he starts being benched then the conversation starts to become that he can't even play for NY let alone Canada so he will have to step it up, he's playing not to get hit, he isn't using his body at all. One play last night he was going on a 2 on 2 and normally he cuts wide with speed and bulls his way to the net but this time as soon as he got close to the D he stopped dead and lost the puck. If he isn't healthy enough to play, then sit him and dress Miller. Zucs, Brass and Pouliot are all outplaying him and getting less minutes.

Sometimes we forget Hags. He has been solid as well. Ditto Kreider. We need the guys (Nash-Brad-Cally-Step-Hank) you mentioned to produce. They are like 65-70% of our cap hits but its nice to be getting production from our lower priced younger guys as well.

bsi
01-04-2014, 04:07 PM
Sometimes we forget Hags. He has been solid as well. Ditto Kreider. We need the guys (Nash-Brad-Cally-Step-Hank) you mentioned to produce. They are like 65-70% of our cap hits but its nice to be getting production from our lower priced younger guys as well.

Ya I think we are a really good team if the guys that are getting paid to score would score. The secondary guys if you will, are doing their part and keeping us at .500, if the top guys would get a goal or two a night we are a much better team than I thought we were as Hags, Pouliot, Brass, Zucs have all performed excellent in 2nd and 3rd line roles, we just need our first line to be our first line.

Is it just me or does it seem that Kreider doesn't have any type of chemistry with Stepan and Nash? I thought he played better with pretty near anyone outside of those guys. I think Hagelin should stick with Step and Nash, Kreider goes with Richards and Callahan, and Pouliot Brassard and Zucs stay together. All lines get equal ice time and the better lines gets third line minutes.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-04-2014, 04:13 PM
Ya I think we are a really good team if the guys that are getting paid to score would score. The secondary guys if you will, are doing their part and keeping us at .500, if the top guys would get a goal or two a night we are a much better team than I thought we were as Hags, Pouliot, Brass, Zucs have all performed excellent in 2nd and 3rd line roles, we just need our first line to be our first line.

Is it just me or does it seem that Kreider doesn't have any type of chemistry with Stepan and Nash? I thought he played better with pretty near anyone outside of those guys.

Kreider had a great game with Nash and Step in the beginning but ever since then the chemistry has been missing. I like Krieder or Hags to play with Mats because I feel Mats will help them take advantage of their speed. Stepan has tried to feed Krieder for a break here and there but most the connections missed.

bsi
01-04-2014, 04:27 PM
Kreider had a great game with Nash and Step in the beginning but ever since then the chemistry has been missing. I like Krieder or Hags to play with Mats because I feel Mats will help them take advantage of their speed. Stepan has tried to feed Krieder for a break here and there but most the connections missed.

I agree with ya but I would be hesitant to touch the line of Pouliot, Brass and Zuc as they have been our best the last while and Pouliot seems to have found his grove with those guys, taking him off that line might throw him off.

NYSPORTS98
01-04-2014, 04:56 PM
NEWS: Del Zotto's people will be meeting with Sather tomorrow regarding a trade, SOURCE: Larry Brooks

Great - send Staal with him. The Rangers defense was desperate for somebody to take the body last night.

nyr1980
01-04-2014, 05:50 PM
Kreider had a great game with Nash and Step in the beginning but ever since then the chemistry has been missing. I like Krieder or Hags to play with Mats because I feel Mats will help them take advantage of their speed. Stepan has tried to feed Krieder for a break here and there but most the connections missed.

The best way to get Nash going might be to play him with Mats right now. Maybe go:

Zuccs-Richards-Nash
Kreider-Step-Cally
Hags-Brass-Pouliot

As the top 3 lines at least.

Mr.Wiskers
01-04-2014, 09:45 PM
KingsnQueens7 reported and started a thread for Carcillo, we dealt a 7th Rd pick for him.
-----
Saw a rumor that we asked Col. For Tyson Barrie in a deal for MDZ. SpectorsHockey says if the Rangers ask for Barrie Col. Should hang up. I don't know why he would say that. I don't see what he sees in this kid he's 5'10"--so he's a bit undersized, he's a former 3rd Rd pick and he has yet to play a full season in the NHL. I'd rather keep MDZ. Now I saw another cite, I think it was the blueshirt brotherhood forum that said there's no way we do that deal unless it includes McGinn.

bsi
01-05-2014, 02:59 AM
KingsnQueens7 reported and started a thread for Carcillo, we dealt a 7th Rd pick for him.
-----
Saw a rumor that we asked Col. For Tyson Barrie in a deal for MDZ. SpectorsHockey says if the Rangers ask for Barrie Col. Should hang up. I don't know why he would say that. I don't see what he sees in this kid he's 5'10"--so he's a bit undersized, he's a former 3rd Rd pick and he has yet to play a full season in the NHL. I'd rather keep MDZ. Now I saw another cite, I think it was the blueshirt brotherhood forum that said there's no way we do that deal unless it includes McGinn.

Tyson Barrie would be a good return IMO.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-05-2014, 11:53 AM
The best way to get Nash going might be to play him with Mats right now. Maybe go:

Zuccs-Richards-Nash
Kreider-Step-Cally
Hags-Brass-Pouliot

As the top 3 lines at least.

Playing with Mats and Brd did jump start Nash towards the end of last season.

Its kind of funny that I see people say play XYZ players with Mats to get them going when Mats is one of the lowest paid guys on the team. :)

Mr.Wiskers
01-05-2014, 11:56 AM
I was poking around other sites and was shocked at what most were saying. AV has really screwed MDZ, and thereby us. Yes the kid has some wholes in his game, but he's not the only one out there this isn't a 1 person game. Seating him doesn't help. For a guy who should have made a big jump, His numbers are down this year but he's avg.ed decent numbers throughout. People say he only had 21 pts. Last yr. But that was in 46 gms( strike shortened season) it would have avg. out to 37 pts. And You also have to look at his hits---he does throw the body around and it's a part of his game. Looking back at AV/his right hand's history we all know that he always, always picks on a player and when he zeroes in on a player they are screwed. I think he's a good player and while I understand McDonagh, Stralman,Staal,Girardi are ahead of him on the depth chart. He should be playing and should be used more on the PP as he has more of an offense game than Staal and Girardi.
----
With that being said. I think our best bet is to trade him for a pick or picks. What we want for him we are not gonna get. What we're being offered is just not enough. Look we have our top 4, some say top 5 with Moore and Allen,McIlrath and Falk can round us out. With Buekeboom in the AHL and Samuelsson here we're better off drafting our Dmen and developing them ourselves. The difference between MDZ and Allen's contract should be used in/ toward re-signing Girardi and a top line winger.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-05-2014, 12:07 PM
The Toronto announcers wee talking about MDZ last night. I like MDZ. I actually would like to keep him but he has been up and down since his rookie season. At some point the onus for his play falls on his shoulders. He may just need a change of scenery. I wish he could figure out things here. I'd like to see Moore play better as well. He has all the talent in the world. Its more a decision making positional issue for both of them.

Mr.Wiskers
01-05-2014, 12:56 PM
Have you looked at our Dmen stats, pts. wise:
McDonagh 25 in 43
Girardi------12 in 42
MDZ---------8 in 33
Moore--------8 in 41
Staal---------4 in 33
Stralman----4 in 42
Falk----------2 in 20

SLY WILLIAMS
01-05-2014, 01:15 PM
Have you looked at our Dmen stats, pts. wise:
McDonagh 25 in 43
Girardi------12 in 42
MDZ---------8 in 33
Moore--------8 in 41
Staal---------4 in 33
Stralman----4 in 42
Falk----------2 in 20

McD is making the most of a green light to play offense. Dan is around right. MDZ, Staal, Strallman, and Moore should be higher.

bsi
01-05-2014, 04:00 PM
McD is making the most of a green light to play offense. Dan is around right. MDZ, Staal, Strallman, and Moore should be higher.

Has anyone noticed lately that we have played better with DelZotto in the lineup, not saying he has been a difference maker but maybe the guys aren't happy with him being left out, was just something I noticed the last bunch of games. Might be nothing.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-05-2014, 04:04 PM
Has anyone noticed lately that we have played better with DelZotto in the lineup, not saying he has been a difference maker but maybe the guys aren't happy with him being left out, was just something I noticed the last bunch of games. Might be nothing.

I have not thought about it but I really wish they would work with him rather than give up on him. Both MDZ and Moore have legit talent. Just simplify the game for them for now. MDZ throws a surprising amount of checks on a soft team.

Mr.Wiskers
01-05-2014, 04:28 PM
I would really, really, really like to see MDZ reclaim his spot on the 2nd line with Staal and like I said get more time on the PP. Then I can laugh at all those teams who were trying to jerk us in deals for him.

Redfish
01-05-2014, 04:47 PM
I have not thought about it but I really wish they would work with him rather than give up on him. Both MDZ and Moore have legit talent. Just simplify the game for them for now. MDZ throws a surprising amount of checks on a soft team.

I wish I could locate and provide a link to a great illustration I saw last month or so, but I can't so I'll just have to do my best and translate.

It was an illustration of today's top offensive defensemen in the league and what their career goals/assists/points were in their careers when they were Del Zotto's age today. Of the approximate 7-8 defensemen referenced, only Drew Doughty and Dustin Byfuglien had more points at a similar age. Brian Campbell and all others included in the article had less career points at a similar age.

Now, I've been developing a view that Del Zotto may have peaked playing in New York City, as it is a difficult hockey market for young players to develop (Dubinsky recently attributed being in the small Columbus market as one factor which has helped him develop since leaving New York). But this article and illustration I read made a very strong impression of how important it is to be patient with offensive oriented defensemen.

Why trade Del Zotto for another young d-man struggling to be consistent in their game (e.g., Franzen, Gardiner)? Isn't it just changing a face and number, but retaining the same coaching challenges? The organization has invested a great deal into this player already and, as Sly highlighted, most of our defenseman are producing below their normal production levels; and, clearly, they have all struggled defensively this season, even McDonagh. I think many may also agree McDonagh may be one of those rare athletes capable of elevating his game to whatever is presented to him, given enough time.

So, perhaps the best course of action is "do nothing." Let the team stablize; let the coach develop more history with the player and revisit during the off-season. One challenge to this scenario, though, is Del Zotto is entitled to arbitration rights and would likely get a pay raise if it goes through arbitration; a pay raise that, based on current performance, the Rangers may have no intent to pay and, thus, don't want to lose this player for nothing.

I'm simply not sure where I stand on all this --- it is a difficult decision. I am concerned though the meetings requested by Del Zotto's agents were to formally communicate Del Zotto no longer wishes to play here; in which case, the NYR may not have much of a choice.

nyr1980
01-05-2014, 04:55 PM
Giving up on MDZ is risky, but it's hard to keep him around if he's healthy scratched often nights, and playing limited minutes the rest.

And he's not exactly been good in his last 80 games.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-05-2014, 05:26 PM
I wish I could locate and provide a link to a great illustration I saw last month or so, but I can't so I'll just have to do my best and translate.

It was an illustration of today's top offensive defensemen in the league and what their career goals/assists/points were in their careers when they were Del Zotto's age today. Of the approximate 7-8 defensemen referenced, only Drew Doughty and Dustin Byfuglien had more points at a similar age. Brian Campbell and all others included in the article had less career points at a similar age.

Now, I've been developing a view that Del Zotto may have peaked playing in New York City, as it is a difficult hockey market for young players to develop (Dubinsky recently attributed being in the small Columbus market as one factor which has helped him develop since leaving New York). But this article and illustration I read made a very strong impression of how important it is to be patient with offensive oriented defensemen.

Why trade Del Zotto for another young d-man struggling to be consistent in their game (e.g., Franzen, Gardiner)? Isn't it just changing a face and number, but retaining the same coaching challenges? The organization has invested a great deal into this player already and, as Sly highlighted, most of our defenseman are producing below their normal production levels; and, clearly, they have all struggled defensively this season, even McDonagh. I think many may also agree McDonagh may be one of those rare athletes capable of elevating his game to whatever is presented to him, given enough time.

So, perhaps the best course of action is "do nothing." Let the team stablize; let the coach develop more history with the player and revisit during the off-season. One challenge to this scenario, though, is Del Zotto is entitled to arbitration rights and would likely get a pay raise if it goes through arbitration; a pay raise that, based on current performance, the Rangers may have no intent to pay and, thus, don't want to lose this player for nothing.

I'm simply not sure where I stand on all this --- it is a difficult decision. I am concerned though the meetings requested by Del Zotto's agents were to formally communicate Del Zotto no longer wishes to play here; in which case, the NYR may not have much of a choice.

I'd keep him unless blown away with an offer but I would sit him down and talk to him. Make a commitment that he will be a NY Ranger. Let him know he does not have to worry about a trade. Tell him he may play on the 3rd pairing at times but when he improves he will play more. Tell him to just work on the basics. We do not need him to be Bobby Orr. Just have sound defensive position, make smart passes, and throw the body.

nyr2002nyr
01-05-2014, 05:29 PM
I'd keep him unless blown away with an offer but I would sit him down and talk to him. Make a commitment that he will be a NY Ranger. Let him know he does not have to worry about a trade. Tell him he may play on the 3rd pairing at times but when he improves he will play more. Tell him to just work on the basics. We do not need him to be Bobby Orr. Just have sound defensive position, make smart passes, and throw the body.

But that is not what AV wants of him sly. He has stated he wants to see the MDZ he has heard about one that can help offensively and chip in on the pp. He is not a guy to throw the body around.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-05-2014, 05:55 PM
But that is not what AV wants of him sly. He has stated he wants to see the MDZ he has heard about one that can help offensively and chip in on the pp. He is not a guy to throw the body around.

I understand AV wants his dman to help offensively. I want that as well but I feel when a guys confidence is down you start to build it back up by simplifying the game for them. Then later you can add in the offense.

I agree that MDZ has not thrown his body this season but in past seasons he was good for 2 hits a game.

nyr1980
01-05-2014, 06:08 PM
I understand AV wants his dman to help offensively. I want that as well but I feel when a guys confidence is down you start to build it back up by simplifying the game for them. Then later you can add in the offense.

I agree that MDZ has not thrown his body this season but in past seasons he was good for 2 hits a game.

See I think that the D has been more involved. They've pinched more, gone deep more, shot more, etc. The forwards haven't potted enough of them is all.

Mr.Wiskers
01-05-2014, 07:30 PM
I respect what you guys are saying, I just don't see the same thing. This kid isn't even close to his plateau. He's got good speed, a nasty edge, and can play on the PP. We've watched this kid when he was on a streak, leading the rush. There were people here who even felt he could/should have been moved up to forward. as I write this I can here Tony Little saying "YOU CAN DO IIIT!!!"
His hit totals have gone down this yr. 32 so far but in the past 162,92( like half a season/ he was hurt),156, and 77 in a strike shortened season.

NYSPORTS98
01-05-2014, 08:18 PM
Have you looked at our Dmen stats, pts. wise:
McDonagh 25 in 43
Girardi------12 in 42
MDZ---------8 in 33
Moore--------8 in 41
Staal---------4 in 33
Stralman----4 in 42
Falk----------2 in 20


:horse: l keep hitting this horse but it never gets up. Nobody has a shot or an offensive clue besides McD.

What does Staal do again?

SLY WILLIAMS
01-05-2014, 08:46 PM
Before injuries Staal was a borderline all star 1st pairing dman. Since injuries he is a 2nd pairing dman. I hope he can come back as well as he used to be but I realize eye/head injuries are hard to come back from 100%.

I'm more concerned about Nash and his contract. That is why I'm open to moving him if we get a very good offer.

bsi
01-05-2014, 09:34 PM
Mdz should not be traded because we feel we need to. He has terrific potential and other teams know it, if we dont get a good offer that makes sense thats atleast even value then keep him and make him into the player he can be, build him up instead of tearing him down. My preference would be to keep him and play him with McDonagh since he is our best defender, put him in a situation to succeed, dont pair him with a struggling Moore and expect the two of them to all of a sudden find their game. But as they say thats my opinion, everyone has one.

Mr.Wiskers
01-05-2014, 10:24 PM
Bsi---I agree with you totally besides if McD was to get hurt who would be able to step in and take his place.
Sly---would you do a trade with Ottawa, who has alot of cap room. Nash for Greening ( great speed, think he finished 2nd to Hagelin in last yrs fastest skater competition)and Ryan( about 3 yrs. younger than Nash and throws the body more, skill level isn't in the same level as Nash but is younger,cheaper, doesn't have the concussion issues Nash has had and he's from NJ) Clear cap space to re-sign our free agents or bring in Vanek and/ or Gaborik.

NYSPORTS98
01-05-2014, 10:49 PM
Before injuries Staal was a borderline all star 1st pairing dman. Since injuries he is a 2nd pairing dman. I hope he can come back as well as he used to be but I realize eye/head injuries are hard to come back from 100%.

I'm more concerned about Nash and his contract. That is why I'm open to moving him if we get a very good offer.

He was getting better but he didn't get over the hump in any aspect of his game. It's been 3 going on 4 years since he played 77 games and he was 22/23 yrs old. He had a massive concussion, almost blew his eye out and now another concussion. He's going to get hurt again. Meanwhile, he doesn't do much of anything and this team needs something better on the backline.

With Kristo, Lindberg, Miller and company, i see no reason not to start moving players out. IMO, Staal could be packaged with any Del-Zotto, Boyle and company. Staal is damaged and his head is a time bomb and it likely won't be too long before he's gone again.

As far as Nash - dangle him out there and make sure Richards gets bought out by seasons end.

Redfish
01-06-2014, 09:39 AM
NY Post
Sather Must Decide: Is Dealing Girardi Best for Rangers?

http://nypost.com/hockey/


Another tough personnel decision to be addressed near-term. I am sure Girardi enjoys being in New York and has loyalty to this organization, to a degree; yet, he also has a young family and this will be his only chance at a long-term, and big$ contract. I think Sather will offer something attractive but not what other teams would be willing to pay him as a free-agent this summer.

QUBobcats550
01-06-2014, 10:48 AM
:horse: l keep hitting this horse but it never gets up. Nobody has a shot or an offensive clue besides McD.

What does Staal do again?

John Moore has a shot

QUBobcats550
01-06-2014, 10:50 AM
NY Post
Sather Must Decide: Is Dealing Girardi Best for Rangers?

http://nypost.com/hockey/

Another tough personnel decision to be addressed near-term. I am sure Girardi enjoys being in New York and has loyalty to this organization, to a degree; yet, he also has a young family and this will be his only chance at a long-term, and big$ contract. I think Sather will offer something attractive but not what other teams would be willing to pay him as a free-agent this summer.

As the article states, Girardi might be the toughest piece to replace other than McD, so I'd be extremely reluctant to move him unless it was for an overwhelming package.

QUBobcats550
01-06-2014, 10:53 AM
He was getting better but he didn't get over the hump in any aspect of his game. It's been 3 going on 4 years since he played 77 games and he was 22/23 yrs old. He had a massive concussion, almost blew his eye out and now another concussion. He's going to get hurt again. Meanwhile, he doesn't do much of anything and this team needs something better on the backline.

With Kristo, Lindberg, Miller and company,
Boyle and company. Staal is damaged and his head is a time bomb and it likely won't be too long before he's gone again.

As far as Nash - dangle him out there and make sure Richards gets bought out by seasons end.

The problem is, we have no defensemen in our system who can replace Staal or MDZ at the moment, so moving them in a package would severely cripple our blue line.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 11:57 AM
I like Dan. I think we should offer him a fair deal BUT limit the amount of years. I think re-signing Cally might be a bigger risk than Dan but there is no way to tell in advance how big a influence age and injuries will be.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 12:03 PM
He was getting better but he didn't get over the hump in any aspect of his game. It's been 3 going on 4 years since he played 77 games and he was 22/23 yrs old. He had a massive concussion, almost blew his eye out and now another concussion. He's going to get hurt again. Meanwhile, he doesn't do much of anything and this team needs something better on the backline.

With Kristo, Lindberg, Miller and company, i see no reason not to start moving players out. IMO, Staal could be packaged with any Del-Zotto, Boyle and company. Staal is damaged and his head is a time bomb and it likely won't be too long before he's gone again.

As far as Nash - dangle him out there and make sure Richards gets bought out by seasons end.

I'd be open to some moves but the prospects you named are forwards. We really need a dman with some snarl as well. I think Brad will be gone in June (or sooner) because of cap/contract issues.

IAmARanger18
01-06-2014, 02:35 PM
We all know Nash isn't being dealt, right?

metswon69
01-06-2014, 05:31 PM
We all know Nash isn't being dealt, right?

Yeah I don't see it either as his value is so low right now. I know the concussions are a very serious deal but if this team wants to make a playoff push, they are going to need Nash to get hot and play like he did last year.

As for who gets amnestied, I still think its going to be Richards.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 06:54 PM
I do not think Nash's value is that low anywhere but among Ranger fans. Many GMs will see him coming off a excellent season last year and not having played that many games yet this season.

metswon69
01-06-2014, 07:25 PM
I do not think Nash's value is that low anywhere but among Ranger fans. Many GMs will see him coming off a excellent season last year and not having played that many games yet this season.

That's possible but the concussion issue is a big deal imo. We've seen what has happened to guys like Lindros, Sauer, Staal, etc who has suffered that type of injury. This is his second such concussion in two years with the Rangers and he just hasn't looked like himself so far this year. Sure that's probably in large part to the injury and his lack of games played but it is something the Rangers and other teams have to keep in the back of their minds if he is a trade candidate. I kind of go back and forth on what to do with Nash but I don't see them dealing him a year after giving up so much for him in trade.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 07:34 PM
That's possible but the concussion issue is a big deal imo. We've seen what has happened to guys like Lindros, Sauer, Staal, etc who has suffered that type of injury. This is his second such concussion in two years with the Rangers and he just hasn't looked like himself so far this year. Sure that's probably in large part to the injury and his lack of games played but it is something the Rangers and other teams have to keep in the back of their minds if he is a trade candidate. I kind of go back and forth on what to do with Nash but I don't see them dealing him a year after giving up so much for him in trade.

You are right about the head injuries so the question becomes do you wait until the injuries and age make it near impossible to trade his contract? Or do you try to recoup the investment while you still have a chance?

metswon69
01-06-2014, 07:39 PM
You are right about the head injuries so the question becomes do you wait until the injuries and age make it near impossible to trade his contract? Or do you try to recoup the investment while you still have a chance?

True. Do you think they trade Nash though in the middle of a playoff race though? I would think they should be conceivably still in it on March 5th. And do they amnesty Richards at the end of the season?

Just curious :)

IAmARanger18
01-06-2014, 07:42 PM
Yeah I don't see it either as his value is so low right now. I know the concussions are a very serious deal but if this team wants to make a playoff push, they are going to need Nash to get hot and play like he did last year.

As for who gets amnestied, I still think its going to be Richards.

Nash is the guy along with Kreider they will build around. Don't expect him to get dealt.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 07:48 PM
True. Do you think they trade Nash though in the middle of a playoff race though? I would think they should be conceivably still in it on March 5th. And do they amnesty Richards at the end of the season?

Just curious :)

If we are in a playoff race it is doubtful that Nash gets dealt unless we are knocked over by a really good offer. I have to admit these long big $$$ deals for guys over 30 do worry me. Historically guys on average are past their prime by 30.

During the off-season I said many times I do not think Brad will be a NYR next season. My mind has never changed on that. I like Brad a lot. It is not personal. It is business. He has played better this season. He will be a cap casualty.

metswon69
01-06-2014, 07:57 PM
If we are in a playoff race it is doubtful that Nash gets dealt unless we are knocked over by a really good offer. I have to admit these long big $$$ deals for guys over 30 do worry me. Historically guys on average are past their prime by 30.

During the off-season I said many times I do not think Brad will be a NYR next season. My mind has never changed on that. I like Brad a lot. It is not personal. It is business. He has played better this season. He will be a cap casualty.

Yeah I agree with you in regards to that and if they do fall out of it, I am not going to dismiss them possibly moving Nash but it's a double edged sword. If he continues to underperform, his trade value could take a hit and if he starts playing like the Nash of last year, he could be one of the catalysts to a possible playoff run.

I wasn't accusing you of being hypocritical btw. I certainly share that opinion with Richards still being a 6,666,667 million dollar cap hit annually over the next 6 seasons, his declining production, and with him being 34 in May.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 08:09 PM
Yeah I agree with you in regards to that and if they do fall out of it, I am not going to dismiss them possibly moving Nash but it's a double edged sword. If he continues to underperform, his trade value could take a hit and if he starts playing like the Nash of last year, he could be one of the catalysts to a possible playoff run.

I wasn't accusing you of being hypocritical btw. I certainly share that opinion with Richards still being a 6,666,667 million dollar cap hit annually over the next 6 seasons, his declining production, and with him being 34 in May.

That thought never entered my mind. Not sure what I said to give you that impression. All is good. :)

I think we both agreed about Brad last off season if my memory serves me correct. :)

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 11:07 PM
Nice to see Rick score tonight. We really need his production to be at the 30-70 level for us to have a semblance of a first line.

nyr1980
01-06-2014, 11:16 PM
Yeah I agree with you in regards to that and if they do fall out of it, I am not going to dismiss them possibly moving Nash but it's a double edged sword. If he continues to underperform, his trade value could take a hit and if he starts playing like the Nash of last year, he could be one of the catalysts to a possible playoff run.

I wasn't accusing you of being hypocritical btw. I certainly share that opinion with Richards still being a 6,666,667 million dollar cap hit annually over the next 6 seasons, his declining production, and with him being 34 in May.

Not to sound jerky, but I don't know why anyone is discussing the idea of Richards being moved before the deadline, or for that matter, discussing his buyout.

No one will trade for him, because no one wants his contract or to have to give him in the neighborhood of $18-20mill in a buyout this summer.

Discussing his buyout in January when he can't be bought out until the buyout window is open in June is moot too.

But IMO, him being bought out is all but a foregone conclusion.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 11:20 PM
I spoke about trading Nash today. Its not that I do not like Rick. I wanted him here. I just get scared by these long big $$$ contracts. Regardless Rick shut me up with 2 goals tonight. Well done. :)

bsi
01-06-2014, 11:27 PM
I spoke about trading Nash today. Its not that I do not like Rick. I wanted him here. I just get scared by these long big $$$ contracts. Regardless Rick shut me up with 2 goals tonight. Well done. :)

I am more worried about Nash's concussions. With us having Staal and him with these issues you are only two hits away from losing them both.

SLY WILLIAMS
01-06-2014, 11:40 PM
I am more worried about Nash's concussions. With us having Staal and him with these issues you are only two hits away from losing them both.

That plays a large role in my thinking as well.

Its a shame. I feel bad for these guys that they just cant play hard without that worry.

metswon69
01-06-2014, 11:58 PM
Not to sound jerky, but I don't know why anyone is discussing the idea of Richards being moved before the deadline, or for that matter, discussing his buyout.

No one will trade for him, because no one wants his contract or to have to give him in the neighborhood of $18-20mill in a buyout this summer.

Discussing his buyout in January when he can't be bought out until the buyout window is open in June is moot too.

But IMO, him being bought out is all but a foregone conclusion.

Well I never made the claim they would be able to trade him. That cap hit along with his drop in production probably makes him a hard piece to deal but there are only so many buyout candidates on this team. Sure, they could decide not to amnesty Richards but I think it's pretty close to an inevitability like you said barring a great run in the playoffs with him as their best player.

I'm not giving up on this season by any means, they just have to look at the bigger picture as well and I think next year is a big deal with the amount of RFA and UFA the Rangers have. I am sure there will be some roster overhaul in terms of guys that may fit AV's system more suitably.


That thought never entered my mind. Not sure what I said to give you that impression. All is good. :)

I think we both agreed about Brad last off season if my memory serves me correct. :)

Yeah I mean I like Brad. It's just a matter of their salary cap circumstances even with the elevated cap next year.

nyr1980
01-07-2014, 12:19 AM
Well I never made the claim they would be able to trade him. That cap hit along with his drop in production probably makes him a hard piece to deal but there are only so many buyout candidates on this team. Sure, they could decide not to amnesty Richards but I think it's pretty close to an inevitability like you said barring a great run in the playoffs with him as their best player.

I'm not giving up on this season by any means, they just have to look at the bigger picture as well and I think next year is a big deal with the amount of RFA and UFA the Rangers have. I am sure there will be some roster overhaul in terms of guys that may AV's system more suitably.



Yeah I mean I like Brad. It's just a matter of their salary cap circumstances even with the elevated cap next year.

No, I get that entirely. I just think it's a bad talking point that anyone has brought it up, particularly the idea of trading him. No one can risk having him on their roster with the huge recapture penalties on him if he retires early, so whoever would trade for him absolutely has to buy him out, thus making him the most expensive rental player in the history of sports.

Actually, thinking of the money involved if someone were to trade for him, and themn buy him out is sick.

Figure the remainder of his salary this year, if he's dealt right at the deadline,roughly $2.25 mil, plus the $18 mil a buyout would cost. That's staggering for a player whose on your roster for a maximum of 15 weeks.