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View Full Version : Has Lebron James Fallen Off As The NBA`s Best



RocketLoc80
12-14-2013, 03:15 AM
It seems everyone stripped of him of that title now and giving it to KD or Paul George

ThaDubs
12-14-2013, 03:20 AM
Paul George? Lol, hell no

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:23 AM
1. LeBron
2. kd
2a. paul george

85BearsDefense
12-14-2013, 03:24 AM
Ummmm no. If Lebron wanted he could easily average over 30 PPG

Htownballa1622
12-14-2013, 03:25 AM
no.

New hype around certain players that eventually return to the mean and then Lebron pops off one of those streaks like last year where he shoots over 65% while doing other things. Whatever that streak was last year.

We're spoiled by Lebron's greatness that ppl get bored and quickly want to crown a new top dog when in fact Lebron HAS,IS, and WILL BE the best player in the league for a bit now.

WaDe03
12-14-2013, 03:34 AM
Maybe in 10 years

PacersForLife
12-14-2013, 03:35 AM
I don't think anyone is saying LeBron isn't the best. Some people are just talking a lot about guys who are breaking out or doing good lately. It gets boring hearing how great LeBron is 24/7.

FlashBolt
12-14-2013, 03:35 AM
Yup, we are honestly spoiled by his greatness. The dude is putting up some efficient numbers while playing a career low in mpg. The dude doesn't even seem like he is trying at times. Honestly, performance wise he hasn't exceeded my expectations. He still has some work to do. He's been less aggressive this year and seems to depend on his teammates much more. No way is KD or PG better than LJ... They are 45-47% from the field... LJ is 58%... Not even close.

P&GRealist
12-14-2013, 03:42 AM
It seems everyone stripped of him of that title now and giving it to KD or Paul George

I think you're just making **** up to garner attention.

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:49 AM
LeBron still the best and will be easily be for the next 5 years.

it's not a matter if LeBron is the best, the question is will LeBron be the best...ever?

KingPosey
12-14-2013, 04:26 AM
I'm not a Lebron guy, but a point forward that kinda just plays on cruise control during the regular season and still averages 25-7-6 on 60% shooting and 44% from deep is ****ing ridiculous.

astonmartin10
12-14-2013, 06:15 AM
Lol Lebron is still the best.

FraziersKnicks
12-14-2013, 09:03 AM
PG has had a good playoffs and a very good 2 months of this season and people are crowning him the best player in the league.

He's quickly becoming one of the more overrated players in the league.

FraziersKnicks
12-14-2013, 09:27 AM
I just really hope people can appreciate how good LeBron is before he retires.

Chances are we're never going to see a 6'8, 260 pound point forward who averages 25-7-6 on 58% shooting ever again.

RocketLoc80
12-14-2013, 09:57 AM
Charles Barkley just said last night that Lebron James is not the best anymore and Kevin Durant, Paul George and LaMarcus Aldridge have passed him.

koreancabbage
12-14-2013, 10:15 AM
Charles Barkley just said last night that Lebron James is not the best anymore and Kevin Durant, Paul George and LaMarcus Aldridge have passed him.

charles barkley is an idiot. aand those who believe him....

Htownballa1622
12-14-2013, 10:15 AM
Charles Barkley just said last night that Lebron James is not the best anymore and Kevin Durant, Paul George and LaMarcus Aldridge have passed him.

:facepalm:

x1000

ManRam
12-14-2013, 10:38 AM
lol

the guy is sleepwalking to 25-6-6 right now on 58/43/75 shooting. we've become spoiled. his numbers aren't quite at last years level (sans scoring efficiency), but whatever. no one in the league is comparable. KD and CP3 are the next two...let's cool it with the PG and especially LMA hype machines.

Jarvo
12-14-2013, 10:57 AM
Charles Barkley just said last night that Lebron James is not the best anymore and Kevin Durant, Paul George and LaMarcus Aldridge have passed him.

Charles Barkley is a ******* that's why, And I'm a huge fan of all three players.

MonroeFAN
12-14-2013, 11:00 AM
Paul George? Wtf?

Dade County
12-14-2013, 11:10 AM
It seems everyone stripped of him of that title now and giving it to KD or Paul George

:laugh:... How easily people can be manipulated by the media.



Lbj is a business man and a con artist, before he is a basketball player; so what you see before you is an business entity that is building up the drama for his own self glory, and in return the NBA profits big come postseason time, thats all.

I believe he could have greater fame, if he actually plays real every game, for an entire season... We would see numbers that we thought we would never see again. But to each their own.

I hope congress exposed this **** one day, and everyone gets their money back that bought tickets to watch these games... so on and so on.

MonroeFAN
12-14-2013, 11:12 AM
Lebron is by far the best player in the universe.

It's not even remotely close and as long as he's in his prime it will continue to be that way. Also, Charles Barkley is a complete ****.

JasonJohnHorn
12-14-2013, 11:13 AM
His averages might be down a little (notably his blocks average), but his percentages are out of this world. I have NEVER seen a player who takes as many shots as the focus of opposing defenses hit this many shots, EVER. This is historic!

6+ assists and 6+ rebounds to boot with over a steal a game? And only 1.5 personal fouls?

These are some AMAZING numbers.

EL_MACHETE
12-14-2013, 11:26 AM
Kevin Durant is working his way up to surpass LeBron James

But Chris Paul.?. IDK I honestly think he's below James, Durant & even George




(But theirs a lot of games left, Soo we'll see)

todu82
12-14-2013, 11:30 AM
Nope. Lebron is still the best player in the game.

EL_MACHETE
12-14-2013, 11:34 AM
Nope. Lebron is still the best player in the game.

Everyone has their opinions

MonroeFAN
12-14-2013, 11:46 AM
This isn't really a subjective topic here though.

3Blueforyou
12-14-2013, 12:00 PM
This isn't really a subjective topic here though.

This, he is still the best.

jp611
12-14-2013, 12:04 PM
No, Lebron is coasting.

He's the best player in the NBA, because he does it on both ends at an extremely high level.

There's no reason for the Heat to expend all their energy in a weak Eastern Conference. They are positioning themselves for a three-peat.

PartyPoison15
12-14-2013, 12:06 PM
Lol..

LbJ is the best right now, and will be for some time. I hate the guy and I say it.

Paul George? LOLOLOL

Not yet. Chill out on the guy.

jerellh528
12-14-2013, 12:08 PM
Lebron is still best for now, but this notion that he is just cruising, or on auto pilot, or he can average 40ppg if he wanted etc is stupid. If you honestly believe he isn't out there trying hard every game that ridiculous, but if it's true, then notch that up as another reason why I don't like him as a player. Maybe if he "tried" like you all say, his stacked team wouldn't be the 5th best in the nba right now. As an NBA player you are paid to go all out for the fans and your team every night. I believe he does, but if not, than eff him.

dnl123
12-14-2013, 12:22 PM
This easily contends for one of the stupidest threads ever on PSD.

Longhornfan1234
12-14-2013, 12:25 PM
I'm Lebron fab and KD fan. Let's face reality... KD has been much better his season and putting up better stats.

3RDASYSTEM
12-14-2013, 01:01 PM
Yup, we are honestly spoiled by his greatness. The dude is putting up some efficient numbers while playing a career low in mpg. The dude doesn't even seem like he is trying at times. Honestly, performance wise he hasn't exceeded my expectations. He still has some work to do. He's been less aggressive this year and seems to depend on his teammates much more. No way is KD or PG better than LJ... They are 45-47% from the field... LJ is 58%... Not even close.

No he is trying at all times its just he is playing in post more so its more wear and tear on body and it will tire you more often leading to his reduced minutes mentioned by you, BRON doesn't have any work to do because he did it already with the improved freethrow pct, his weakness coming into the league 10yrs ago

its not closed based on impact, he led the CAVS and now HEAT to FINALS/rings

KD already has FINALS app. and is in the MVP convo annually for past odds yrs with BRON while GEORGE just signed a max deal and has got 'next', even CP3 has more juice than GEORGE at this moment, he is tied with KD

BRON is banging in the post and his team is much deeper to lean on so that figures into his aggression, which means he will be somewhat fresh come playoff time because they will need all the banging they can get down low from him

its not really close because he should have the last 5 MVPS and you know how the media gets bored of picking same player over and over but it is his for the taking next 2-4yrs, book it

cmellofan15
12-14-2013, 01:22 PM
I'm Lebron fab and KD fan. Let's face reality... KD has been much better his season and putting up better stats.

No, he hasn't.

TylerSL
12-14-2013, 01:24 PM
Lebron is still way better than anyone else in this league.

RLundi
12-14-2013, 01:29 PM
Nope. People just get accustomed and tired of the best so they're subconsciously always trying to invent a possible challenger and alternative. LeBron is the best player in the league. Yes, it's boring and repetitive but it's true.

Cal827
12-14-2013, 01:34 PM
:laugh: and I thought I was high this morning

nickdymez
12-14-2013, 01:34 PM
Love fest in here

Chronz
12-14-2013, 01:43 PM
If he has fallen off, its because Durant has risen to ascension and James is somewhat less inspired to dominate the way he is come playoffs.

dee279
12-14-2013, 02:03 PM
Kevin Durant is working his way up to surpass LeBron James

But Chris Paul.?. IDK I honestly think he's below James, Durant & even George



(But theirs a lot of games left, Soo we'll see)
Stick to Xbox 360

Pablonovi
12-14-2013, 02:03 PM
Guys/gals,
Check out NBA.com's own Sekou Smith at these two links regarding the "MVP Race":
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/12/13/mvp-ladder-room-for-kd-and-russ/
http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/

In the first article, he puts forth a lot of good stuff; all of it is reasonably sharp EXCEPT any and every time he mentions LeBron (or compares other candidates to him).

In the second article, his actual 1 thru 10 list, he does an even more totally bizarre thing (against slighting LBJ but in a far worse/stranger manner). He and/or the NBA have come up with a new "1-stat = all-you-need" thing called, "
PIE". Here is what he includes each and every week about it:

"Editor's note on player stats: Instead of going with points, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals to measure each MVP candidate's numbers, we are instead going with PIE.

While we do not discredit traditional stats around these parts, PIE is one stat we think accurately reflects the overall value of a player.

What is PIE? It stands for Player Impact Estimate, and it's a new NBA-developed stat that measures a player's (or team's) overall impact on the games in which they've played.

PIE eliminates league- , season- or style-of-play bias, enabling comparison of a player and team across different eras. The PIE formula also includes the team's rate of success -- which some see as the ultimate measure.

We feel this is an accurate depiction of a player's overall value. But if you're looking for the traditional (and advanced numbers), they're just a click away, too."

So, they go thru all the effort to devise this possible: "best single stat for objectively comparing players"; then they list each player's number right next to the mini-paragraph describing why they are ranked they way they are.

YET, despite LeBron absolutely crushing everybody else on the list in terms of PIE, he has been listed NOT-#1 week after week. Sekou does not even point out that he is doing this; much less what his "justification" is supposed to be.

Straight out hypocrisy. And YES, LBJ is still MVP #1 so far this season (with little reason to expect a change).

btw, I do not have an opinion about the value of PIE; AND would love to have others look it over and express their opinions about both:
a) is it a pretty accurate measurement of the players' relative value; and
b) is it so good that it can be used to essentially replace all the other stats combined (at least if you want to look at one number and "get it".

Pablonovi
12-14-2013, 02:07 PM
For those who want the short version of my post above:
On the NBA's own Sekou Smith's Hang-Time Blog: "MVP-Ladder"; they claim they've invented a new, all-in-one stat that is the best ever at comparing players (from any era); YET even though LBJ gets a 10% higher number than even Durant (and 20%+ over everybody else); LeBron is somehow listed only #3 ! Yikes!

John Walls Era
12-14-2013, 02:10 PM
LOL

Paul George may win MVP, but he shouldn't even be in the discussion.

Pablonovi
12-14-2013, 02:12 PM
Here's Their Top 10 List:
Current Rankings


Rank PIE Player


1 19.2 Kevin Durant
2 17.8 Paul George
3 21.1 LeBron James
4 14.1 Tony Parker
5 16.6 LaMarcus Aldridge
6 15.4 Stephen Curry
7 18.9 Chris Paul
8 18.1 Kevin Love
9 14.9 James Harden
10 13. 1 Russell Westbrook

So,
HERE'S WHAT THEIR OWN SUPER-STAT SAYS THE RANKINGS SHOULD REALLY BE:
1. LBJ

HUGE GAP

2. Durant
3. CP3
4. KLove
5. George

GAP

6. Aldridge

GAP

7. Curry
8. Harden
9. Parker

GAP

10. Westbrook

Isn't this pretty much what all of us have been seeing: both using the eye-test and other stats?

John Walls Era
12-14-2013, 02:13 PM
Charles Barkley just said last night that Lebron James is not the best anymore and Kevin Durant, Paul George and LaMarcus Aldridge have passed him.

I don't know what to call the people that think George is even close to KD or Lebron. Because if I call them stupid, thats not insulting enough, but if I call them ********, then what does that make the people that quote CHARLES BARKLEY? Barkley is an dumbass, but at least he gets paid.

jerellh528
12-14-2013, 02:37 PM
Durant has closed the gap quite a bit. They're almost interchangeable at this point, swap them on each other's teams and I think both teams don't skip a beat.

RocketLoc80
12-14-2013, 02:43 PM
I don't know what to call the people that think George is even close to KD or Lebron. Because if I call them stupid, thats not insulting enough, but if I call them ********, then what does that make the people that quote CHARLES BARKLEY? Barkley is an dumbass, but at least he gets paid.

But he said KD will be more legendary than Lebron

FlashBolt
12-14-2013, 02:43 PM
Durant has not closed the gap at all. He's not 50/40/90. Certainly hasn't improved much while James has been efficient as can be. He's playing a career low in minutes, btw.

RocketLoc80
12-14-2013, 02:44 PM
Durant has closed the gap quite a bit. They're almost interchangeable at this point, swap them on each other's teams and I think both teams don't skip a beat.

So you think KD will be more of legend?

FlashBolt
12-14-2013, 02:47 PM
I watch KD play every game. His defense has improved a bit but he's not better than he was last year. This year, he hasn't been impressive to me. His TS% is down a bit and Westbrook has been playing better than KD the past few games. With that being said, Durant is still #2, PG is #3.

Slug3
12-14-2013, 03:02 PM
Isn't Lebron playing a career low in minutes? But still shooting over 60% from the field?

jerellh528
12-14-2013, 03:06 PM
Isn't Lebron playing a career low in minutes? But still shooting over 60% from the field?

yeah minutes and efficiency kinda go hand in hand, why?

zn23
12-14-2013, 03:24 PM
I find it laughable that people are putting Paul George in the same sentence. George is becoming very overrated. Just the other day the Pacers barely beat the Bobcats and George went 2-12 and was a non factor the whole game. I guarantee if LeBron played that badly the Heat would get blown out. But instead George has much better teammates around him to pick up the slack.

LeBron is also having a far superior year and it's not even close.

AND, when they faced each other, LeBron shut George completely down in the first half. He guarded him entire first half and George couldn't do a single thing. Then in the second half LeBron got into foul trouble, off some questionable calls, and the game completely changed.

LeBron is still the best a close no.2 would be Durant (who is having a fantastic year as well). But this was the case last year as well, and Durant completely fell off after the all-star break. The rest It doesn't even matter.

ManningToTyree
12-14-2013, 03:29 PM
Nobody actually believes this

IKnowHoops
12-14-2013, 03:31 PM
Lebron plays hard every game for sure, but his level of aggressiveness is just on early season mode. Just showing up and being that team centerpiece, but not trying to do anything out of the ordinary to win games.

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:33 PM
when it matters most, no one in the nba can take over like LeBron in all phases of the game

NoahH
12-14-2013, 03:34 PM
No way. I read a great article the other day that basically said we're desensitized to LeBron's greatness and leBron averaging 25-6-6 on 58% shooting and 43% from 3 seems like average LeBron numbers even though its unreal efficiency. People want to talk about the new and shiny stars like Paul George and Curry, but leBron is at another level still.

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:35 PM
I watch KD play every game. His defense has improved a bit but he's not better than he was last year. This year, he hasn't been impressive to me. His TS% is down a bit and Westbrook has been playing better than KD the past few games. With that being said, Durant is still #2, PG is #3.

yeah, agree there. I don't see how cp3 was ranked #3. top 10 maybe

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:35 PM
No way. I read a great article the other day that basically said we're desensitized to LeBron's greatness and leBron averaging 25-6-6 on 58% shooting and 43% from 3 seems like average LeBron numbers even though its unreal efficiency. People want to talk about the new and shiny stars like Paul George and Curry, but leBron is at another level still.

true that. like when kobe scores 30, it's an off night for him

IKnowHoops
12-14-2013, 03:38 PM
Lebron plays hard every game for sure, but his level of aggressiveness is just on early season mode. Just showing up and being that team centerpiece, but not trying to do anything out of the ordinary to win games.

IMO guys like KD and PG are going harder and playing more aggressive because they still have a chip on there shoulder. Same with Melo and Harden. When Lebron is in full force, late season and playoffs, its not close. Right now its close because the intensity levels are different for the respective players.

NoahH
12-14-2013, 03:38 PM
true that. like when kobe scores 30, it's an off night for him

Yup, LeBron and Kobe are held to higher standards.

LeBron is having a MUCH better statistically efficient season than Paul George yet people still want to say PG is better? SMH...

IKnowHoops
12-14-2013, 03:43 PM
true that. like when kobe scores 30, it's an off night for him

actually 20pts is an on-night for Kobe now. 30 pts would be world beater for Kobe at this point.

HYFR
12-14-2013, 03:45 PM
Yea we are so ungrateful sometimes lol.. Just cuz lebron isn't putting up 29/8/8, he's falling off? Smh.. Nobody is touching his current stats now, so that should tell u something .

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:48 PM
Yup, LeBron and Kobe are held to higher standards.

LeBron is having a MUCH better statistically efficient season than Paul George yet people still want to say PG is better? SMH...

I don't think anyone really believes PG > LB.

slashsnake
12-14-2013, 03:50 PM
IMO guys like KD and PG are going harder and playing more aggressive because they still have a chip on there shoulder. Same with Melo and Harden. When Lebron is in full force, late season and playoffs, its not close. Right now its close because the intensity levels are different for the respective players.

I think that kind of gives him the MVP again unless they want to go with a new face because he's a new face.

He isn't playing as intense as he can yet, but is averaging 25 points, 6.5 boards and assists, shooting over 58% and 43% from downtown, and is first in player efficiency rating. Every one of those numbers is better than Paul George or Harden (who are playing more minutes).

FlashBolt
12-14-2013, 03:50 PM
LeBron has a bad game when he's shooting 50% from the field.. KD/PG/CP/James Harden/Westbrook/Steph Curry.. None of these fools are shooting 50%, yet this is BELOW standard for James. That says it all. The dude is above everyone, no debate.

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:52 PM
everyone talks about LeBron this, LeBron that.

the question is will LeBron go down in nba history as the GOAT?

he will need at least 6, maybe 7 to be considered the GOAT, I don't know if he's going to get his 3rd with wade getting old and bosh being soft

WES KOAST
12-14-2013, 03:54 PM
I think that kind of gives him the MVP again unless they want to go with a new face because he's a new face.

He isn't playing as intense as he can yet, but is averaging 25 points, 6.5 boards and assists, shooting over 58% and 43% from downtown, and is first in player efficiency rating. Every one of those numbers is better than Paul George or Harden (who are playing more minutes).

you cant mention harden in the same weight class as LeBron.

LeBron would lead the league in almost every category if he wanted to but his main focus is to make everyone around him better, that's why he's so great.

NoahH
12-14-2013, 04:38 PM
Most people have been focusing on the offensive side too, LeBron is more efficient and playing better statistically than any other player, but his defense is better too.

Harden, Curry, Aldridge and other in NBA.com's MVP Ladder are NOWHERE near LeBron's defensive ability.

Ebbs
12-14-2013, 05:58 PM
No anyone who thinks that is a fool.

LeBron has gotten better again

slashsnake
12-14-2013, 06:03 PM
you cant mention harden in the same weight class as LeBron.

LeBron would lead the league in almost every category if he wanted to but his main focus is to make everyone around him better, that's why he's so great.

Well those are the people that are being thrown in as outside shots. Guys like Harden and George, Curry, etc. Sure, they are having very nice years and are a bit of a surprise. But not on an MVP level, and not against a guy like Lebron. Sure, you can make a bit of a case for Durant maybe right now, and I'd listen. Aldridge, maybe for a minute. Melo's defense is the worst thing around, so he's out.

I said before the year my darkhorse favorite was Kevin Love. 25-14-4. I wouldn't vote him over Lebron, but I like him a lot more than Lebron.


I guess seeing these guys right now, if you threw every single player into a draft pool and had the #1 pick to start building a random team with, for just this season, who do you choose? Lebron of course. That's why he's the MVP to me.

bucketss
12-14-2013, 06:26 PM
LOLL Boy george can't even dribble the ball properly. please compare him to carmelo, not lebron.

BrandoCommando
12-14-2013, 07:31 PM
I'm not a Lebron guy, but a point forward that kinda just plays on cruise control during the regular season and still averages 25-7-6 on 60% shooting and 44% from deep is ****ing ridiculous.

This; pretty much.

heyman321
12-14-2013, 07:54 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. no NOT even close

ManRam
12-14-2013, 07:59 PM
everyone talks about LeBron this, LeBron that.

the question is will LeBron go down in nba history as the GOAT?

he will need at least 6, maybe 7 to be considered the GOAT, I don't know if he's going to get his 3rd with wade getting old and bosh being soft

Why does he need more rings than most of the guys he'd be passing at that point? His level of play and individual accolades probably will trump of the guys in the top-10 when all is said and done...rings might not have to be a prerequisite

AnthonyTyrael2
12-14-2013, 08:07 PM
Who will stop him from getting his third in a row? Really? No matter who beat them these days. They gotta repeat it a couple times when it's counting, so will they? Can they? Highly doubting it. Miami is their own worst enemy, as all top teams/favs are in pro sports.

yankeefan54
12-14-2013, 09:39 PM
Charles Barkley just said last night that Lebron James is not the best anymore and Kevin Durant, Paul George and LaMarcus Aldridge have passed him.

Lol who cares what he has to say. Aldridge over james just about sums up what a tool barkley is

lukass
12-14-2013, 09:48 PM
LBJ is easily the best if he wanted to he could avg 35ppg

Pablonovi
12-15-2013, 12:06 AM
Lol who cares what he has to say. Aldridge over james just about sums up what a tool barkley is

Hey yankeefan54,
Barkley's thing seems to be sensationalism; sometimes he says insightful things; sometimes, like now, he's off his rocker.

Pablonovi
12-15-2013, 12:36 AM
Why does he need more rings than most of the guys he'd be passing at that point? His level of play and individual accolades probably will trump of the guys in the top-10 when all is said and done...rings might not have to be a prerequisite

Hey ManRamForPrez24,
I've got LBJ #5 All-Time right now behind KAJ, Magic, MJ, & Wilt. I think that to ensure the #1 spot, he's gonna need at least 3 more Chips = 5 * . Then he'd have one less Chip than KAJ & MJ but his 2 additional Finals appearances almost equal MJ's 6th Chip, imo. (KAJ had 4 non-winning Finals, so KAJ would still have LBJ there).

I was betting pre-season that he'd have his best season ever this year; meaning that we had not yet seen his peak. And that he had a real shot at having the best regular season ever. That's an amazing thought. And I think this season is right up there; especially given that his & the Heat's intensity should rise in the 2nd half of the season even higher.

I believe that he will deserve the reg. season MVP again this year. Then he'll equal MJ in both MVPs and great years. MJ only had 11 great years (the 2 with Washington were not great; his other two years he only played a 1/4 season or less).

Pretty much, assuming he doesn't get hit with a serious injury AND keeps up (near) his current level he's gonna keep moving up. It's an especially exciting time to be an NBA fan.

* You raise a very interesting point about IF he racks up enough individual accolades (say 7 MVPs, the most ever) will that make up for NOT having as many Chips as guys like: KAJ, MJ and possibly Magic. This might require a new way of thinking by those who evaluate such things; but maybe, especially if he plays enough super-high-quality years, he'll convince everyone he was the best. I wouldn't bet against him.

stawka
12-15-2013, 12:59 AM
I think we should open this thread up again a month after the All-Star break so we can all have a laugh together as one big, happy PSD family

mightybosstone
12-15-2013, 02:56 AM
This is ridiculous. James' numbers speak for themselves, and the guy has back-to-back seasons of MVPs, championships and Finals MVPs. He is, without question, the best player in the league and there isn't a close second in my book.

LongIslandIcedZ
12-15-2013, 03:17 AM
Guys are getting closer to him, but he's still the best.

Munkeysuit
12-15-2013, 03:20 AM
I am not so sure most people are putting Lebron second in their minds, I just think the way Paul George and KD started the season, puts them in the conversation alongside James as being the leagues top dawg. Anyone who knows basketball, knows that no one will be better than Lebron James until they win a ring...Dwight, CP3, Melo, Durant and Rose are all due for some championship shine, but fall short year after year BECAUSE of Lebron (directly or indirectly) and/or injuries. George is excluded because he's still young and he (out of all the leagues current stars) has the most room to grow still, but even HE fell at the hands of King James, so how can you say anyone of them are better?
Lebron James is by far the leagues best player, you can safely say that without really trying, he is putting up numbers that most players in the league have to actually work to get! the dude does it so easily and efficiently that sometimes we might be taking what he does for granted.

jerellh528
12-15-2013, 03:30 AM
I am not so sure most people are putting Lebron second in their minds, I just think the way Paul George and KD started the season, puts them in the conversation alongside James as being the leagues top dawg. Anyone who knows basketball, knows that no one will be better than Lebron James until they win a ring...Dwight, CP3, Melo, Durant and Rose are all due for some championship shine, but fall short year after year BECAUSE of Lebron (directly or indirectly) and/or injuries. George is excluded because he's still young and he (out of all the leagues current stars) has the most room to grow still, but even HE fell at the hands of King James, so how can you say anyone of them are better?
Lebron James is by far the leagues best player, you can safely say that without really trying, he is putting up numbers that most players in the league have to actually work to get! the dude does it so easily and efficiently that sometimes we might be taking what he does for granted.


Don't forget that durant is not even 2 years older than George and still is getting better as well. I agree that Lebron is the best player, what I don't agree with you on is that Lebron isn't trying. C'mon that's plain stupid to think. What makes everyone think he's not even trying? Lol if he's not than that's another reason to not like him. What kinda player doesn't give their all for their fans and teammates every game. Or is it just an excuse you all use for why his #s have dropped across the board and his team is 5th? I've seen great players try every night en route to three peats, shaq and Kobe for example.

Munkeysuit
12-15-2013, 03:41 AM
Don't forget that durant is not even 2 years older than George and still is getting better as well. I agree that Lebron is the best player, what I don't agree with you on is that Lebron isn't trying. C'mon that's plain stupid to think. What makes everyone think he's not even trying? Lol if he's not than that's another reason to not like him. What kinda player doesn't give their all for their fans and teammates every game. Or is it just an excuse you all use for why his #s have dropped across the board and his team is 5th? I've seen great players try every night en route to three peats, shaq and Kobe for example.

You misinterpreted the statement I made of Lebron "not trying" BUT I will take the blame for it because I did not elaborate on it, being that I give everyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to reading comprehension. What I meant by him not trying was that he has so much more help than he did when he was back in Cleveland, which makes for a less explosive, less athletically dynamic juggernaut, which btw, traded places with this more efficient, more intelligent and more confident Lebron we see now.
He doesn't need to squeeze every last ounce of his strength and energy as he did in Cleveland. He can now trust his teammates to make plays and even have other stars that can take over the game when he's not in. This is what I meant by not trying, dude can play more relaxed mentally, knowing he has guys that can pick up the slack when needed. But your 100% right though, its just that you misinterpreted what I meant.
Oh I also didn't forget about how young KD is, but i have to throw him under the bus like that because he loss to Lebron in the Finals.

Munkeysuit
12-15-2013, 03:45 AM
Real quickly, someone else on this thread replied saying "Lebron can average 30ppg if he wanted to" i truly do believe that as well. I just really think he spoils us sometimes, almost to the point where, if he's only scored 19 and got 8 reb, 8 assists with 2 steals? then he's had an alright game.

jerellh528
12-15-2013, 03:47 AM
You misinterpreted the statement I made of Lebron "not trying" BUT I will take the blame for it because I did not elaborate on it, being that I give everyone the benefit of the doubt when it comes to reading comprehension. What I meant by him not trying was that he has so much more help than he did when he was back in Cleveland, which makes for a less explosive, less athletically dynamic juggernaut, which btw, traded places with this more efficient, more intelligent and more confident Lebron we see now.
He doesn't need to squeeze every last ounce of his strength and energy as he did in Cleveland. He can now trust his teammates to make plays and even have other stars that can take over the game when he's not in. This is what I meant by not trying, dude can play more relaxed mentally, knowing he has guys that can pick up the slack when needed. But your 100% right though, its just that you misinterpreted what I meant.

Glad you cleared that up dude, I just read that you said he wasn't really trying to I figured that's what you meant. I'm glad you're not like some people on here that thinks he could average 40ppg and he's not breaking a sweat right now. Well no duh he might be able to put up 40ppg but it's going to be nowhere near as efficient and his other numbers will struggle, so in essence he wouldn't even be playing like Lebron anymore. A big part of lebrons game is feeding and feeding off his teammates, that's why I compare him more to magic than Jordan.

Chronz
12-15-2013, 04:07 AM
Love fest in here
Well its not like theres much room for debate here, its pretty much common sense because the eyes and the objective facts agree.

Kashmir13579
12-15-2013, 04:41 AM
lol what a failed attempt at trolling..

shep33
12-15-2013, 05:19 AM
Did LeBron lose a leg or something?

Still by far the best in the game

Kushed
12-15-2013, 05:19 AM
lebron will be the best player in the league until he retires...

okay probably not but seriously no one will pass him for at least another 5 years

Kushed
12-15-2013, 05:19 AM
63-2... comical by the way

Vampirate
12-15-2013, 11:10 AM
Lebron is like Jordon in one aspect.

As long as Lebron is in his prime, he'll always be the best player in the game.

FlashBolt
12-15-2013, 02:56 PM
I am not so sure most people are putting Lebron second in their minds, I just think the way Paul George and KD started the season, puts them in the conversation alongside James as being the leagues top dawg. Anyone who knows basketball, knows that no one will be better than Lebron James until they win a ring...Dwight, CP3, Melo, Durant and Rose are all due for some championship shine, but fall short year after year BECAUSE of Lebron (directly or indirectly) and/or injuries. George is excluded because he's still young and he (out of all the leagues current stars) has the most room to grow still, but even HE fell at the hands of King James, so how can you say anyone of them are better?
Lebron James is by far the leagues best player, you can safely say that without really trying, he is putting up numbers that most players in the league have to actually work to get! the dude does it so easily and efficiently that sometimes we might be taking what he does for granted.


Don't forget that durant is not even 2 years older than George and still is getting better as well. I agree that Lebron is the best player, what I don't agree with you on is that Lebron isn't trying. C'mon that's plain stupid to think. What makes everyone think he's not even trying? Lol if he's not than that's another reason to not like him. What kinda player doesn't give their all for their fans and teammates every game. Or is it just an excuse you all use for why his #s have dropped across the board and his team is 5th? I've seen great players try every night en route to three peats, shaq and Kobe for example.

Watch their games.. It seems effortless.

nickdymez
12-15-2013, 03:30 PM
Well its not like theres much room for debate here, its pretty much common sense because the eyes and the objective facts agree.

Really. This is an obvious troll/bait thread. But who cares? Its the perfect opportunity to praise Lebron.

PrettyBoyJ
12-15-2013, 04:05 PM
I think what we're experiencing right now is the media and fans being enamored with new superstar talent, and everyone getting tired of hearing how good LBJ is. But make no mistake, LBJ is still the best player in the league.

naps
12-15-2013, 09:03 PM
LOL.

I wish the poll was open to public so i could see who casted those 4 votes. Not that I don't have any guess who they might be...

Ebbs
12-15-2013, 10:29 PM
LeBron is the only player in history to shoot 58-40-75 let alone the 60-42-80 he could possibly hit. On 25 PPG volume. This thread should've been closed immediately.

ElChinoLatino
12-15-2013, 10:56 PM
Lebron is still best for now, but this notion that he is just cruising, or on auto pilot, or he can average 40ppg if he wanted etc is stupid. If you honestly believe he isn't out there trying hard every game that ridiculous, but if it's true, then notch that up as another reason why I don't like him as a player. Maybe if he "tried" like you all say, his stacked team wouldn't be the 5th best in the nba right now. As an NBA player you are paid to go all out for the fans and your team every night. I believe he does, but if not, than eff him.

As an NBA player, you are paid to do what the coach says. If it means to rest now and save energy for the playoffs, then by all means you must obey they coach. As an NBA player you must do all that is required of you to make the playoffs and win Championships, which in this case is not much since he is in the East. LeBron is just cruising and he can average 40ppg if he wanted to, specially in a weak Eastern Conference.

jerellh528
12-15-2013, 11:03 PM
As an NBA player, you are paid to do what the coach says. If it means to rest now and save energy for the playoffs, then by all means you must obey they coach. As an NBA player you must do all that is required of you to make the playoffs and win Championships, which in this case is not much since he is in the East. LeBron is just cruising and he can average 40ppg if he wanted to, specially in a weak Eastern Conference.
okAYYYY. I'm sure his coach is telling him to cruise so we can lose games. He's playing lowered mins already, he should play as hard as he can in those low mins. Maybe he could average 35-40ppg, but it wont be near as efficient and his other numbers would fall as well as would his defense because of straining so much on offense, so he wouldn't even be lebron anymore. Lebron is best known for playing conservatively, efficiently, within an offense, and letting his teammates get highly involved. So this BS he could do blah blah blah if he wanted to is dumb. He was set free in cleveland and he couldn't hit higher than 30 ppg with lowered efficiency, of course he has evolved his game since then, but he also has two all stars to take pressure off him and thats in a weak east like you say. In the west he would have a harder time, good point. Also it's arguable than durants career numbers have been greater than lebrons during at their same age and he's still improving, he probably wont go to the east coast and join a super team, but if he did, it would be interesting to see. Lebron didn't really separate himself until he went to miami. So he's not OMG the greatest, no flaws bball god!!1 that everyone says imo

ElChinoLatino
12-15-2013, 11:24 PM
okAYYYY. I'm sure his coach is telling him to cruise so we can lose games. He's playing lowered mins already, he should play as hard as he can in those low mins. Maybe he could average 35-40ppg, but it wont be near as efficient and his other numbers would fall as well as would his defense because of straining so much on offense, so he wouldn't even be lebron anymore. Lebron is best known for playing conservatively, efficiently, within an offense, and letting his teammates get highly involved. So this BS he could do blah blah blah if he wanted to is dumb. He was set free in cleveland and he couldn't hit higher than 30 ppg with lowered efficiency, of course he has evolved his game since then, but he also has two all stars to take pressure off him and thats in a weak east like you say. In the west he would have a harder time, good point.

Lose games? You mean 6 games so far into the season? Wow Spoelstra, what are you thinking? You team is almost out of the playoffs being the 2nd seed with 5.5 games up the 3rd seed. Why don't you explode LeBron just so us basketball fans can be entertained. Play him 40+ mins a game in order to get the top seed since that's what win Championships right? Oh no wait I forgot it's the team who has the player who wins the MVPs award. No, not that either. I remembered, is whoever wins 16 games in the postseason. So here's an idea coach, why don't we rest our best players, win enough games to make the playoffs (which apparently is being above .400 in the East), and use them in the postseason when they are fresh and rested. It's brilliant. I can't believe no one else is doing this, oh wait no, Popovich did it last year, he was pretty close to win it too (15 games). Again LeBron can average 40ppg if he wanted to, he isn't because he is playing on cruise control.

elizabethhill
12-15-2013, 11:25 PM
Lebron haters are everywhere. But I still believe in him. And it's undeniable, he has really done something for his team! Although, I also believe no one will own the spotlight forever. One of these days, Lebron will have to step down.

jerellh528
12-15-2013, 11:32 PM
Lose games? You mean 6 games so far into the season? Wow Spoelstra, what are you thinking? You team is almost out of the playoffs being the 2nd seed with 5.5 games up the 3rd seed. Why don't you explode LeBron just so us basketball fans can be entertained. Play him 40+ mins a game in order to get the top seed since that's what win Championships right? Oh no wait I forgot it's the team who has the player who wins the MVPs award. No, not that either. I remembered, is whoever wins 16 games in the postseason. So here's an idea coach, why don't we rest our best players, win enough games to make the playoffs (which apparently is being above .400 in the East), and use them in the postseason when they are fresh and rested. It's brilliant. I can't believe no one else is doing this, oh wait no, Popovich did it last year, he was pretty close to win it too (15 games). Again LeBron can average 40ppg if he wanted to, he isn't because he is playing on cruise control.

yea lose games as in not being 1st in a weak east with the most stacked roster, and best player in the league, good luck with miami beating indy with home court, but thats an argument for another day. Anyways, you didn't touch anything I said, you just simply restated the obnoxious opinion that he's on cruise control and could average 40ppg. So im not replying again, believe what you wish lol. You guys dont have to keep making excuses for him, lebron is what he is, and thats definitely good enough, just enjoy it.

thaShady
12-15-2013, 11:44 PM
There's no reason for the Heat to expend all their energy in a weak Eastern Conference. They are positioning themselves for a three-peat.

Except that they will lose home court because the Pacers are dominating.

Sactown
12-15-2013, 11:52 PM
yea lose games as in not being 1st in a weak east with the most stacked roster, and best player in the league, good luck with miami beating indy with home court, but thats an argument for another day. Anyways, you didn't touch anything I said, you just simply restated the obnoxious opinion that he's on cruise control and could average 40ppg. So im not replying again, believe what you wish lol. You guys dont have to keep making excuses for him, lebron is what he is, and thats definitely good enough, just enjoy it.

You're talking about a guy at the age of 21 putting up almost 32 points on 23 shots.. Currently a much better and more efficient Lebron is putting up only 25 points, but at a career low 15 shot attempts per game.. Clearly he has taken his foot off the gas, and to say otherwise is simply moronic..

Could he average 40PPG?
My opinion is yes, he is extremely efficient and about as dangerous from the floor as anyone we've ever seen, it seems that if he wanted to go nuts and pump his shots per game up to 27-28 (much like Kobe did when he averaged 35 a game) he is definitely able to turn that many shots into 40+ points. He's definitely has the stanima to do it as well..

jerellh528
12-16-2013, 12:05 AM
You're talking about a guy at the age of 21 putting up almost 32 points on 23 shots.. Currently a much better and more efficient Lebron is putting up only 25 points, but at a career low 15 shot attempts per game.. Clearly he has taken his foot off the gas, and to say otherwise is simply moronic..

Could he average 40PPG?
My opinion is yes, he is extremely efficient and about as dangerous from the floor as anyone we've ever seen, it seems that if he wanted to go nuts and pump his shots per game up to 27-28 (much like Kobe did when he averaged 35 a game) he is definitely able to turn that many shots into 40+ points. He's definitely has the stanima to do it as well..

31, not 32 but yeah, Im not saying he cant average 40, although he's never averaged anywhere close to it to assume it would be attainable for him. I'm saying he wouldnt be able to do it in lebron fashion like everyone is suggesting. They are saying he could put up 40ppg if he wanted as if they forgot he's never averaged close to that. Sure, he might be able to, but assists would go down, his turnovers would go up, his defense would suffer because of expended energy on offense and he would not nearly be as efficient. If youre putting up 40ppg not all of them are going to come in the paint or be easy shots, like lebron is accustomed to taking. He might be able to do it, but it would be no where close to being the same player as lebron is currently and thats what makes him great and who he is. Im just saying people are getting out of hand with these lebron assumptions. Youre talking about something Jordan has never done, even throwing up 28 shots per game. And jordans offensive game makes lebrons look pedestrian. Kobe put up 35ppg on .587ts% which is pretty decent and played excellent defense with a cast no where close to as great as lebrons and in a harder conference. Not sure why he was brought up here, everyone already knows how great of a scorer kobe is.

the situation
12-16-2013, 12:27 AM
umm, when did kobe fall off as the best player in the league?

RocketLoc80
12-16-2013, 03:41 AM
I really want all the 7 people who voted yes to be men and not cowards and explain your position as to why Lebron has fallen off?

RocketLoc80
12-16-2013, 03:45 AM
okAYYYY. I'm sure his coach is telling him to cruise so we can lose games. He's playing lowered mins already, he should play as hard as he can in those low mins. Maybe he could average 35-40ppg, but it wont be near as efficient and his other numbers would fall as well as would his defense because of straining so much on offense, so he wouldn't even be lebron anymore. Lebron is best known for playing conservatively, efficiently, within an offense, and letting his teammates get highly involved. So this BS he could do blah blah blah if he wanted to is dumb. He was set free in cleveland and he couldn't hit higher than 30 ppg with lowered efficiency, of course he has evolved his game since then, but he also has two all stars to take pressure off him and thats in a weak east like you say. In the west he would have a harder time, good point. Also it's arguable than durants career numbers have been greater than lebrons during at their same age and he's still improving, he probably wont go to the east coast and join a super team, but if he did, it would be interesting to see. Lebron didn't really separate himself until he went to miami. So he's not OMG the greatest, no flaws bball god!!1 that everyone says imo

Dud just come out and say Durant is better than Lebron you know that`s why you are trying to say but too much of a coward to do it.

Furymaker
12-16-2013, 09:50 AM
He might have lost some of his aggressiveness due to getting older and all , but he is a lot smarter , more efficient + i really do think that miami ain't playing nearly to the level they are capable , it just looks that way when you're watching them play , dunno really . But honestly , so far this season , Durant , CP3 are doing better than him ( in my eyes ) , than you have other players like George , Aldridge , Love who are really gunning towards that MVP .
But still , LeBron is probably still the best when he wants to be the best . If he take 2-3 more shots a game , there would be no threads like this , because dude would average close to 30 ppg , 6-7rpg and 6-7apg on insane efficiency level .

Tony_Starks
12-16-2013, 02:57 PM
When you're playing on a allstar team you have the luxury of playing low minutes and taking less shots. Miami has the formula down, they don't need him to put up big numbers to be successful. He can cruise and just make sure he gets through the season healthy...

aztr0
12-16-2013, 03:03 PM
Who is everyone? This everyone will take LeBron before anyone if they had the chance to draft him out of the other two names you mentioned. Stop being ridiculous.

IKnowHoops
12-16-2013, 03:08 PM
When you're playing on a allstar team you have the luxury of playing low minutes and taking less shots. Miami has the formula down, they don't need him to put up big numbers to be successful. He can cruise and just make sure he gets through the season healthy...

There are about 10 other teams that would also be considered an all-star team with Bron on it. Bron puts the Star in all star team on any team.

jerellh528
12-16-2013, 03:14 PM
There are about 10 other teams that would also be considered an all-star team with Bron on it. Bron puts the Star in all star team on any team.

No crap, he's the best player in the league. But no other team in the league has the production of guys like: wade, bosh, beasly, allen, chamlers, birdman. Those guys alone without bron would still be #2 in the east.

ztilzer31
12-16-2013, 03:15 PM
The funny thing is the Heat usually start off worse than they do now. They always build up toward mid to late season. I think LBJ is about to have a truly historic season.

jerellh528
12-16-2013, 03:21 PM
The funny thing is the Heat usually start off worse than they do now. They always build up toward mid to late season. I think LBJ is about to have a truly historic season.

It's weird because since lebron joined the heat they have had the very easiest or within bottom 3 easiest schedule in the league. Before he joined the heat, heat had second hardest. Maybe they need a new coach who can get these guys to play better.

Tony_Starks
12-16-2013, 03:25 PM
There are about 10 other teams that would also be considered an all-star team with Bron on it. Bron puts the Star in all star team on any team.

My point is, minus Lebron, the Heat literally have multiple allstars/ hall of famers. He doesn't have to carry the whole load....

beliges
12-16-2013, 03:45 PM
There are about 10 other teams that would also be considered an all-star team with Bron on it. Bron puts the Star in all star team on any team.

Well the Heat had two legitimate franchise players on their team in Wade and Bosh before LBJ joined. Im not sure you can really say that about too many other teams. Certainly not 10 teams.

ztilzer31
12-16-2013, 04:47 PM
It's weird because since lebron joined the heat they have had the very easiest or within bottom 3 easiest schedule in the league. Before he joined the heat, heat had second hardest. Maybe they need a new coach who can get these guys to play better.

Yeah they need to be better than 2 straight championships.

jerellh528
12-16-2013, 04:52 PM
Yeah they need to be better than 2 straight championships.

2 is not 5, not 6, not 7.....

Alayla
12-16-2013, 06:37 PM
Explain to me how this is a topic with how well LBJ is playing?

Alayla
12-16-2013, 06:38 PM
umm, when did kobe fall off as the best player in the league?

A good long while ago

stawka
12-16-2013, 11:14 PM
Explain to me how this is a topic with how well LBJ is playing?

Short explanation: PSD
Long explanation: Pro. Sports. Daily
Twitter: #psdlogic

SINCESTARBURY25
12-16-2013, 11:42 PM
Paul George is a beast and could be the next Kobe when he harnesses that Killer instinct and perfects his footwork and outside game. Also he needs to stay strong and get tougher. The problem with Durant is he isn't aggresive and too friendly in the leauge as much as I love him and his game he won't take over Lebron.

Jeffy25
12-17-2013, 01:52 AM
In baseball, for 10 years, Pujols was the man. The best in the game.

But he often wasn't talked about while new players were popping up. People always used him as the staple to compare the new young buck to.

Jordan and Gretzky had this too.

I'm not saying Lebron or Pujols are Jordan or Gretzky. But when you are the best in your respective sport for a long period of time, you get forgotten because your production is expected. Some fans don't even bother to look it up any longer until the player begins to decline.

Jeffy25
12-17-2013, 01:57 AM
Maybe I don't understand here, but why is Paul George being called a top 5 all of a sudden?

Is it the physical talent?

Because his production doesn't appear to be where some players like Aldridge, Davis, Love, Anthony, Paul, etc are this season.


Or is it because the Pacers are good? Or is it because of his defense? I'm sorry, I just don't see what's so special so far....that warrants top 3 consideration.

OaklandsFinest
12-17-2013, 02:07 AM
Charles Barkley just said last night that Lebron James is not the best anymore and Kevin Durant, Paul George and LaMarcus Aldridge have passed him.

Charles Barkley just says ish sometimes without thinking. Barkley has no concept of what its like to do what Lebron does and score with his kind of ease and shooting at these percentages.

naps
12-17-2013, 02:07 AM
People need take the bong down with Paul George. Yes the guy is a much improved player but he has looooong ways to get to any top player discussion. I think it's Indiana's record as a team that gives this false impression. People forget they are the best defensive team and forget how instrumental DPOY Roy Hibbert has been to their success. Sadly, PG gets all the credits in the media. Much like Derrick Rose and Chicago Bulls in his MVP season.

Sactown
12-17-2013, 02:13 AM
Maybe I don't understand here, but why is Paul George being called a top 5 all of a sudden?

Is it the physical talent?

Because his production doesn't appear to be where some players like Aldridge, Davis, Love, Anthony, Paul, etc are this season.


Or is it because the Pacers are good? Or is it because of his defense? I'm sorry, I just don't see what's so special so far....that warrants top 3 consideration.
He's producing at a high level on the team being deemed best team in the league, he's a great defender, so many people are saying the combination of his
Offensive production, defense, and being the best guy on the best team is putting him In the top 5 ..

Htownballa1622
12-17-2013, 02:16 AM
People need take the bong down with Paul George. Yes the guy is a much improved player but he has looooong ways to get to any top player discussion. I think it's Indiana's record as a team that gives this false impression. People forget they are the best defensive team and forget how instrumental DPOY Roy Hibbert has been to their success. Sadly, PG gets all the credits in the media. Much like Derrick Rose and Chicago Bulls in his MVP season.

This x 1000

:clap:

ztilzer31
12-17-2013, 02:45 AM
2 is not 5, not 6, not 7.....

Yeah. They should have 5 rings in 3 years already. Jeez they suck.

Jeffy25
12-17-2013, 02:52 AM
He's producing at a high level on the team being deemed best team in the league, he's a great defender, so many people are saying the combination of his
Offensive production, defense, and being the best guy on the best team is putting him In the top 5 ..

Why does team performance matter so much for individual ranks?

FlashBolt
12-17-2013, 03:23 AM
When was the last time LeBron shot below 45%? I honestly can't remember. I can check his game logs and probably find one but the fact that it has gotten to the point where if he shoots anything below 45% - let alone 55%, it's a bad game. I'm going to say it; you guys are watching something really special. I know some of you like myself have never witnessed Jordan on air other than his Wizards days.. But you have to realize at some point that instead of enjoying his presence, you are hating on it. I can guarantee years after he quit, many of ya'll would be telling the future generations of how good LeBron is. Just like Jordan. I love basketball and a player like LeBron comes around rarely.

Pablonovi
12-17-2013, 04:18 AM
When was the last time LeBron shot below 45%? I honestly can't remember. I can check his game logs and probably find one but the fact that it has gotten to the point where if he shoots anything below 45% - let alone 55%, it's a bad game. I'm going to say it; you guys are watching something really special. I know some of you like myself have never witnessed Jordan on air other than his Wizards days.. But you have to realize at some point that instead of enjoying his presence, you are hating on it. I can guarantee years after he quit, many of ya'll would be telling the future generations of how good LeBron is. Just like Jordan. I love basketball and a player like LeBron comes around rarely.

Hey FlashBolt,
I agree with you, this guy is a once-in-a-generation talent.
OTOH, it seems to me that the great majority of posters in this thread is agreeing with you. So, I kinda don't get why you said, "you are hating on it."?

5ass
12-17-2013, 04:33 AM
92% voted no, and i bet if it was a public poll noone would've voted yes. thats all you need to know about this thread.

basketfan4life
12-17-2013, 08:05 AM
LeBron is the best player in the league. Period. The beautiful thing about him is, he never stops developing. He lived up to all that hype.

Wrigheyes4MVP
12-17-2013, 12:01 PM
Maybe I don't understand here, but why is Paul George being called a top 5 all of a sudden?

Is it the physical talent?

Because his production doesn't appear to be where some players like Aldridge, Davis, Love, Anthony, Paul, etc are this season.


Or is it because the Pacers are good? Or is it because of his defense? I'm sorry, I just don't see what's so special so far....that warrants top 3 consideration.

He shouldn't be top 5 IMO.

He is a very good player on a very good team, but is not a great player.

Anyway about Lebron... he is undoubtedly the best and I doubt this changes anytime soon.

The real question is... Where does he rank all time?

by the time his career is over... probably 1 or 2 right up there with MJ.

ztilzer31
12-17-2013, 12:06 PM
He shouldn't be top 5 IMO.

He is a very good player on a very good team, but is not a great player.

Anyway about Lebron... he is undoubtedly the best and I doubt this changes anytime soon.

The real question is... Where does he rank all time?

by the time his career is over... probably 1 or 2 right up there with MJ.

Uh oh now you've done it lol.

I agree though. We're watching history, and people are still trying to find ways to complain about him.

Some people will never like LBJ, and some of these people will not be able to appreciate his game because of it. It's sad really. He's the most complete player ever to play the game.

Whatever though. It's the same people always, and they'll never be convinced.

ztilzer31
12-17-2013, 12:13 PM
Did anyone catch the Utah game by the way? LBJ 30 points with 13/17 shooting. That's 76%. 4/5 from the line. 9 assists, and 9 boards. That's out of this world. I don't care how few minutes he's playing. It's like John Stockton and Karl Malone had a baby, and popped out LBJ.

Chrisclover
12-17-2013, 12:26 PM
Bro, you are kidding, right ?LBJ 's PER is higher than KD , and his Heat's record is better than thunder
It seems everyone stripped of him of that title now and giving it to KD or Paul George

Chrisclover
12-17-2013, 12:28 PM
It's no doubt that LBJ will continue to dominate NBA in the upcoming few years
Maybe in 10 years

Chrisclover
12-17-2013, 12:30 PM
From where do you draw this conclusion ?
It seems everyone stripped of him of that title now and giving it to KD or Paul George

Slug3
12-17-2013, 12:36 PM
Crazy how when I see Lebron with a 22-7-7 stat line while shooting 60%. I look at that as almost like a bad game for Lebron. That would be a great game for damn near wceryone else in the NBA.

LeperMessiah
12-17-2013, 12:40 PM
Lebron will be the top player for a while.

Pablonovi
12-18-2013, 02:29 AM
LeBron's career PER is presently 2nd All-Time only to MJ's; and the gap is tiny and closing. Perhaps, he'll pass MJ by the end of this season and have the highest career PER ever. No small achievement.

I'm aware that PER is not perfect; undervaluing defense for example. Well, LBJ's defense is off the charts; probably, imo, even better than MJ's. So, that only bolsters LeBron's case.

Another aspect of this same question:
basketball-reference lists the 250 greatest seasons for PER. You need a 25.20, a very high mark, just to make that list. LeBron has 9 seasons on the list; and almost for sure this will be his 10th. Right now he has 9 and is tied for 7th-9th places with Wilt & Charles Barkley. He gets his 10th and he ties David Robinson & Tim Duncan for 5th-7th with 10. Only Shaq (13), Karl Malone (12), MJ (11) and KAJ (11) will have more than LBJ after this season.

Pretty darned impressive.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html = Career
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html = Individual Seasons

IKnowHoops
12-18-2013, 11:54 AM
LeBron's career PER is presently 2nd All-Time only to MJ's; and the gap is tiny and closing. Perhaps, he'll pass MJ by the end of this season and have the highest career PER ever. No small achievement.

I'm aware that PER is not perfect; undervaluing defense for example. Well, LBJ's defense is off the charts; probably, imo, even better than MJ's. So, that only bolsters LeBron's case.

Another aspect of this same question:
basketball-reference lists the 250 greatest seasons for PER. You need a 25.20, a very high mark, just to make that list. LeBron has 9 seasons on the list; and almost for sure this will be his 10th. Right now he has 9 and is tied for 7th-9th places with Wilt & Charles Barkley. He gets his 10th and he ties David Robinson & Tim Duncan for 5th-7th with 10. Only Shaq (13), Karl Malone (12), MJ (11) and KAJ (11) will have more than LBJ after this season.

Pretty darned impressive.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html = Career
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html = Individual Seasons

Agreed, and even though PER is completely relative to all the other players, and completely consistent with who the best players to ever play the game, don't be surprised when some stat head says "why are people still using PER".

PER is RELATIVE (meaning that even though it has its flaws, everyone is judged by the exact same criteria and subjected to the same flawed system, so each players stats will be hurt and helped by the flaws in the exact same way). PER always has the top players at the top, and even to a greater extent when talking about all time players.

Its not perfect, but if Youknowhoops then you can follow the road map of PER while easily noticing when and why a player is a little out of place. For Instance - Micheal Beasley. He's not the 15th best player in the NBA even though that where he is on PER. Why is he there then? Because he is playing great for the small amount of time he gets, but not playing enough minutes in general to warrant that rank. There's a flaw, but I like the fact that its telling me how great Beas is playing and I love PER for that.

Pablonovi
12-18-2013, 03:01 PM
Agreed, and even though PER is completely relative to all the other players, and completely consistent with who the best players to ever play the game, don't be surprised when some stat head says "why are people still using PER".

PER is RELATIVE (meaning that even though it has its flaws, everyone is judged by the exact same criteria and subjected to the same flawed system, so each players stats will be hurt and helped by the flaws in the exact same way). PER always has the top players at the top, and even to a greater extent when talking about all time players.

Its not perfect, but if Youknowhoops then you can follow the road map of PER while easily noticing when and why a player is a little out of place. For Instance - Micheal Beasley. He's not the 15th best player in the NBA even though that where he is on PER. Why is he there then? Because he is playing great for the small amount of time he gets, but not playing enough minutes in general to warrant that rank. There's a flaw, but I like the fact that its telling me how great Beas is playing and I love PER for that.

Hey IKnowHoops,
Thanx for this evaluation. I don't consider myself very skilled in the use of advanced stats (with good reason: I'm very new to them; and pretty old period, making it a lot more challenging than it used to be for me to get a handle on complicated things).

I've been using my spare time to analyze three "measuring sticks" that seem highly correlated with All-Time Greatness:
1) PER (I'm almost done with this);
2) The Yearly All-NBA Lists (1st Team, 2nd Team, 3rd Team);
3) Regular Season MVPs (I see this as less reliable/informative than the All-NBA Lists; but still powerful).

So far, the combination of the three "measuring-sticks" seems to be very highly correlated to All-Time Greats Lists ... WITH the exception of 2-3 exceptionally one-sided players (Russell & Rodman (though he's not a Top 50 All-Time Great anyway).

I'd appreciate it if you feel any other "measuring sticks" (like: winshares, for example) should, in your opinion, be included in the "combo".

Again, thanx,
Pablo

P.S. I'm hoping to make this "combo" list a kind of present to PSD, maybe for Xmas, if not for Jan. 1, 2014.

firebryan!!
12-18-2013, 03:22 PM
lebron is the best an its not even close

P&GRealist
12-18-2013, 03:35 PM
This is ridiculous, LeBron James is the best player in the league and has been so (with the exception of 2010-2011). Including this yr, he's been the best player in the league 5 of the past 6 years and will continue to being so for the next 5 yrs until the next great phenom develops.

Pablonovi
12-18-2013, 04:01 PM
This is ridiculous, LeBron James is the best player in the league and has been so (with the exception of 2010-2011). Including this yr, he's been the best player in the league 5 of the past 6 years and will continue to being so for the next 5 yrs until the next great phenom develops.

Hey G&GRealist,
Almost equally amazing is Durant. The guy is gonna be one of the All-Time Greats, yet, he's not even in LBJ's League, so to speak. What a great time to be a fan!

therealwd27
12-18-2013, 04:23 PM
Is this thread real? Who ever thinks Paul George is any where close to LBJ is delusional. KD is still behind LBJ as well. Lol PSD cracks me up

nickdymez
12-18-2013, 04:34 PM
Whats funny to me is how people keep saying "If Lebron really wanted to, he would average 40-15-12.. lol. But no one can explain how he was held to 8 points in a finals and averaged 17 points that series (Dallas)

Pablonovi
12-18-2013, 05:13 PM
Whats funny to me is how people keep saying "If Lebron really wanted to, he would average 40-15-12.. lol. But no one can explain how he was held to 8 points in a finals and averaged 17 points that series (Dallas)

Hey nickdymez,
A wee-bit off-topic; but, in case you didn't notice, it seems that PSD has just re-done its labels-based-on-total-post-count. You now rank 1,200th All-Time, and are the lowest-ranked Legend (5,000+ posts) (temporarily). Congrats!

nickdymez
12-18-2013, 05:28 PM
Hey nickdymez,
A wee-bit off-topic; but, in case you didn't notice, it seems that PSD has just re-done its labels-based-on-total-post-count. You now rank 1,200th All-Time, and are the lowest-ranked Legend (5,000+ posts) (temporarily). Congrats!

Thanks bro

IKnowHoops
12-18-2013, 06:27 PM
Hey G&GRealist,
Almost equally amazing is Durant. The guy is gonna be one of the All-Time Greats, yet, he's not even in LBJ's League, so to speak. What a great time to be a fan!

I think when its all said and done, Lebron and Durant will finish there careers as #1 and #2 SF of all time. If I were trying to put the best team i history on the floor it would go like this.

PG Lebron
SG Jordan
SF Durant
PF Dream/Drob/Duncan/Garnett (1 of these 4)
C Shaq

IKnowHoops
12-18-2013, 06:31 PM
Whats funny to me is how people keep saying "If Lebron really wanted to, he would average 40-15-12.. lol. But no one can explain how he was held to 8 points in a finals and averaged 17 points that series (Dallas)

I'll explain it to you real quick. In the immortal words of playground legend Sydney, "even the sun shines on a dogs --- some day, anybody can win the lottery"

And nobody thinks he could average 40-15-10
But I do think he could go 40-4-4 on 50% shooting

koreancabbage
12-18-2013, 08:07 PM
Whats funny to me is how people keep saying "If Lebron really wanted to, he would average 40-15-12.. lol. But no one can explain how he was held to 8 points in a finals and averaged 17 points that series (Dallas)

good defense. explained it. now move on and stop baiting people b/c thats all you're doing coming in and disrupting the peace. - you must be one of the 10 who voted yes lol

naps
12-19-2013, 12:05 AM
good defense. explained it. now move on and stop baiting people b/c thats all you're doing coming in and disrupting the peace. - you must be one of the 10 who voted yes lol

That's all he does. Just ignore him.

ThaDubs
12-19-2013, 12:10 AM
Hey nickdymez,
A wee-bit off-topic; but, in case you didn't notice, it seems that PSD has just re-done its labels-based-on-total-post-count. You now rank 1,200th All-Time, and are the lowest-ranked Legend (5,000+ posts) (temporarily). Congrats!

Thanks Proph

Pablonovi
12-19-2013, 01:40 AM
Thanks bro

Hey nickdymez,
:clap::cheers::clap:

Pablonovi
12-19-2013, 01:49 AM
I think when its all said and done, Lebron and Durant will finish there careers as #1 and #2 SF of all time. If I were trying to put the best team i history on the floor it would go like this.

PG Lebron
SG Jordan
SF Durant
PF Dream/Drob/Duncan/Garnett (1 of these 4)
C Shaq

Hey IKH,
I completely agree with your first four positions.
On C: I think it'd depend a lot on the match up.
So, along the lines of your treatment of PF: "(1 of these 4)"; I'd say:
C: Shaq/Wilt/KAJ (1 of these 3).

Why Wilt? imo, he was the greatest athlete (all sports) of the entire 1900s; he was as strong as Shaq, better on D, faster & quicker.

Why KAJ? Greatest Center ever (I have him GOAT #1). Most unstoppable shot, SkyHook, much better passer than Shaq/Wilt. KAJ would be even or better than all centers except the super-strong ones like Shaq/Wilt.

IKnowHoops
12-19-2013, 02:35 AM
Hey IKH,
I completely agree with your first four positions.
On C: I think it'd depend a lot on the match up.
So, along the lines of your treatment of PF: "(1 of these 4)"; I'd say:
C: Shaq/Wilt/KAJ (1 of these 3).

Why Wilt? imo, he was the greatest athlete (all sports) of the entire 1900s; he was as strong as Shaq, better on D, faster & quicker.

Why KAJ? Greatest Center ever (I have him GOAT #1). Most unstoppable shot, SkyHook, much better passer than Shaq/Wilt. KAJ would be even or better than all centers except the super-strong ones like Shaq/Wilt.

Yeah, I got no problem at all with that. All three have an argument for G.O.A.T center. I know on my team though, I want Shaq. I know Wilt was a specimen, but IMO he could not bang with Shaq down low. No man could. At PF I would want to go with David, but I think all four are very interchangeable. I think those are four players that are very different, yet very even in there versatility and ability to dominate there opponent. But like you said, same goes for the 3 centers you mentioned.

Pablonovi
12-19-2013, 03:07 AM
Hey nickdymez,
:clap::cheers::clap:


Yeah, I got no problem at all with that. All three have an argument for G.O.A.T center. I know on my team though, I want Shaq. I know Wilt was a specimen, but IMO he could not bang with Shaq down low. No man could. At PF I would want to go with David, but I think all four are very interchangeable. I think those are four players that are very different, yet very even in there versatility and ability to dominate there opponent. But like you said, same goes for the 3 centers you mentioned.

Hey IKH,
We are very highly in agreement in all of this.
Permit me to "make a case" for Wilt over Shaq, ok? Remember, I have no problem with Shaq.
Wilt was incredibly strong; to break up a fight, he once lifted up the second biggest guy (Nate Thurmond, iirc) in the League like it was no big deal; and put him down someplace else saying, "We'll have none of that here." He lifted up TWO players simultaneously, one with each hand/arm. Long after his b-ball career was over, Arnold Schwarzegger invited him to a work-out with weights. Arnold loaded up the bar with the most weight Arnold could do 15 reps with. Wilt, who had terrible form, took that weight and did 30 in 1/4 the time. Arnold walked out and never invited him back. Arnold said that no bodybuilder in the world could come close to Wilt's strength (despite him having that horrible form).

Later in Wilt's career he bulked up to 315 (Shaq's weight); and, in one recorded instant, skied so high for a block/rebound, his finger tip was at the height of the top of the backboard !!!.

I saw Wilt's entire career. His contemporaries marvel at his feats of strength and speed. They did not exaggerate. Shaq would NOT have overpowered him; and that's the one area where Shaq comes closest to him. Wilt was THE fastest guy in the NBA during his career! He was an excellent high jumper. After he retired, he was one of the best PRO Volleyball players in the world.

Here's the link to the youtube channel, The Wilt Chamberlain Archive:
http://www.youtube.com/user/dantheman9758

Well worth checking out.

P.S. Wilt's teams played Russell's Celtics All-Star Team some 140 times. Wilt DOMINATED Russell in virtually even one of those games. That's how great he was. His average ppg was only slightly less than his average against the rest of the League; and his rebounds were actually higher than they were against the rest of the League. Switch Wilt with Russ, and Wilt gets all those Chips. Heck, just switch the coaches (Red Aeurbach was a generation ahead of every other coach back then), and Wilt gets all those Chips.

IKnowHoops
12-19-2013, 03:31 AM
Hey IKH,
We are very highly in agreement in all of this.
Permit me to "make a case" for Wilt over Shaq, ok? Remember, I have no problem with Shaq.
Wilt was incredibly strong; to break up a fight, he once lifted up the second biggest guy (Nate Thurmond, iirc) in the League like it was no big deal; and put him down someplace else saying, "We'll have none of that here." He lifted up TWO players simultaneously, one with each hand/arm. Long after his b-ball career was over, Arnold Schwarzegger invited him to a work-out with weights. Arnold loaded up the bar with the most weight Arnold could do 15 reps with. Wilt, who had terrible form, took that weight and did 30 in 1/4 the time. Arnold walked out and never invited him back. Arnold said that no bodybuilder in the world could come close to Wilt's strength (despite him having that horrible form).

Later in Wilt's career he bulked up to 315 (Shaq's weight); and, in one recorded instant, skied so high for a block/rebound, his finger tip was at the height of the top of the backboard !!!.

I saw Wilt's entire career. His contemporaries marvel at his feats of strength and speed. They did not exaggerate. Shaq would NOT have overpowered him; and that's the one area where Shaq comes closest to him. Wilt was THE fastest guy in the NBA during his career! He was an excellent high jumper. After he retired, he was one of the best PRO Volleyball players in the world.

Here's the link to the youtube channel, The Wilt Chamberlain Archive:
http://www.youtube.com/user/dantheman9758

Well worth checking out.

P.S. Wilt's teams played Russell's Celtics All-Star Team some 140 times. Wilt DOMINATED Russell in virtually even one of those games. That's how great he was. His average ppg was only slightly less than his average against the rest of the League; and his rebounds were actually higher than they were against the rest of the League. Switch Wilt with Russ, and Wilt gets all those Chips. Heck, just switch the coaches (Red Aeurbach was a generation ahead of every other coach back then), and Wilt gets all those Chips.

I 1000% agree with you on the chip count of Wilt had he switched places with Russ. I know wilt average 50 and 25 for 2 seasons which I think is more insane than scoring 100 points. Im going strictly by my eye test. Shaq pulled an entire basket ball hoop down on top of himself. That has never been done before. Ive seen the highlights of Wilt. David Robinson also would of been the fastest guy in the NBA back then as well. Not to take away from Wilt because David is my favorite player, and IMO the second best athletic center in history behind Wilt. But Shaq was slim at 300 pounds. Wilt was slim at 250-260. At there prime playing weight Shaq had 40-50 lbs on Wilt. When in different Era's its very hard to compare, and I am not trying to underrate Wilt. And I have no doubt Wilt could bench press more than Shaq. But there is a difference between weight room strength and natural strength as I'm sure you know. It doesn't mean that Wilt didn't have natural strength as I know he did being that athletic. But it doesn't mean he was stronger than Shaq because he could bench press more. I played RB in college and I always had a strong bench. I tried to flex on this d-lineman who outweighed me 210-270 and we were the same height at about 6ft. I was Benching probably 50-60 pounds more than him, but he tossed me all around that room. He moved me at will. Now I'm not Wilt, and he's not Shaq, but we were the same height, he outweighed me by 60 lbs. I out benched him like 400-315, yet when we locked horns, it wasn't close. It was the natural athletic mass that he had on me that all the weight lifting in the world couldn't account for. And remember, once that natural athletic mass gets moving, mass x velocity is what it is.

Pablonovi
12-19-2013, 04:08 AM
I 1000% agree with you on the chip count of Wilt had he switched places with Russ. I know wilt average 50 and 25 for 2 seasons which I think is more insane than scoring 100 points. Im going strictly by my eye test. Shaq pulled an entire basket ball hoop down on top of himself. That has never been done before. Ive seen the highlights of Wilt. David Robinson also would of been the fastest guy in the NBA back then as well. Not to take away from Wilt because David is my favorite player, and IMO the second best athletic center in history behind Wilt. But Shaq was slim at 300 pounds. Wilt was slim at 250-260. At there prime playing weight Shaq had 40-50 lbs on Wilt. When in different Era's its very hard to compare, and I am not trying to underrate Wilt. And I have no doubt Wilt could bench press more than Shaq. But there is a difference between weight room strength and natural strength as I'm sure you know. It doesn't mean that Wilt didn't have natural strength as I know he did being that athletic. But it doesn't mean he was stronger than Shaq because he could bench press more. I played RB in college and I always had a strong bench. I tried to flex on this d-lineman who outweighed me 210-270 and we were the same height at about 6ft. I was Benching probably 50-60 pounds more than him, but he tossed me all around that room. He moved me at will. Now I'm not Wilt, and he's not Shaq, but we were the same height, he outweighed me by 60 lbs. I out benched him like 400-315, yet when we locked horns, it wasn't close. It was the natural athletic mass that he had on me that all the weight lifting in the world couldn't account for. And remember, once that natural athletic mass gets moving, mass x velocity is what it is.

Key IKH,
Here's another archive of Wilt's stuff. Check out: Wilt's Strength (two parts) & Wilt's Speed.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKknTGQ7XAxYuvf1a8-iLjA

When I have a bit more time, I'll respond to your other fine points. Thanx for laying all this out.

IKnowHoops
12-19-2013, 12:25 PM
Key IKH,
Here's another archive of Wilt's stuff. Check out: Wilt's Strength (two parts) & Wilt's Speed.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKknTGQ7XAxYuvf1a8-iLjA

When I have a bit more time, I'll respond to your other fine points. Thanx for laying all this out.

What can I say, Wilt is an amazing specimen. And in one of the previous videos, I heard Arnold talking about how Wilt was hitting triceps extensions with 160-170. Ive used 120 at the most before. There is no doubt Wilt was stronger in the weight room than Shaq. When watching the film, Shaq's game is more physical and more aggressive than Wilt's. Shaq loved to throw his weight around. He back that huge butt into you and then spin hard and fast into your chest. Reminds me of the difference between Payton and Jim Brown. Payton ran with more ferocity. Jim's talent gap was so huge that he just ran where he wanted while people just hung on for dear life, but he wasn't lining guys up and exploding into them like Payton. If Jim ran like Payton, he would of killed someone back then.

Im_in_Mia_bish
12-21-2013, 07:12 AM
Lol this thread is cute

Why haven't the mods closed the thread yet tho?