PDA

View Full Version : Is it just me or is Jim Brown an idiot?



Sssmush
12-13-2013, 03:01 AM
First of all... just because you can run fast and play football and have name recognition doesn't make you an automatic leader or thinker of the community. And the "who would've stood with Muhammad Ali" question... just wrong. And this thing about trashing Kobe out of the blue on television... just wtf? Because Kobe was brought up in Italy?

In retrospect, the whole Muhammad Ali anti-war thing seems like a total nonstarter. YES the war was bad and YES standing up against the war was great. But from the present day it's easy to see that the whole event was hijacked by the Black Muslim movement, which now seems like it was an attempt to radicalize minority population groups in our country into religious extremism. (I'd highly recommend the 2012 Joe Frazier HBO documentary by the way). This push toward religious extremism was probably funded from outside the US, and had the effect of hardening racial prejudice and scaring "white" folks in America, by combining foreign religious culture and rhetoric with african-americanism and essentially making the two things seem the same--which they never, ever were. It was like a PR nightmare for african amerianism and probably set the movement back 20 years. This persists to this day (see also: Fox News vs Barack Obama), even though something like 99.9% of black folks in America are Christian or spiritual/other and have never bought in to the radical Farrakhan type of racial rhetoric at all. And post 9/11 public awareness of religious extremism is far greater: America is an increasingly secular nation, and poll after poll shows that people across the board want to move beyond racism toward harmony. Groups that (literally) call themselves "black" or "white", whether they are religious extremist or not, do not help that cause.

I mean just imagine if instead of Muhammad Ali, it had been Cassius Clay lining up in the tradition of Martin Luther King to speak out for racial equality and for ending the war in Viet Nam. The war might've ended years earlier, and racial harmony might've been far closer at hand in America; instead the media moment was hijacked by a bunch of mean looking guys in bow ties and black suits and dark glasses staring at every body violently and saying mean angry words things and threatening American culture with everything from foreign religious doctrines to race war, to the separation of the races and to outright revolution.

And for Jim Brown to now, in 2013, invoke all that kind of fumbling foolishness and hostile racial imagery and try to question anybody's manhood or Americanism on the basis of whether or not they would've stood behind Muhammad Ali... *ugh* really?

I think Jim Brown is a good actor and I like his movies, however he is WAY off base with these recent comments. If he is truly the awesome alpha male father figure that he seems to be representing then he owes it to himself to think all these issues through more deeply and to clarify his views for his followers or admirers, so that we can move past racism and racial distrust or divisions in America.

J4KOP99
12-13-2013, 03:07 AM
This thread should be interesting. Although I will say I was quite confused with what Jim brown had to say recently.

Bruno
12-13-2013, 03:08 AM
^ me too. he gave no point of reference in regards to what kobe has said or done in the past to lead himself to believe what he does. seems like it come out of nowhere.

Sssmush
12-13-2013, 05:56 PM
I just want to say one more thing on this, which is that Kobe Bryant has never held himself up to be a political person. He seems to be someone who goes out of his way to make friends and show respect to all groups of people. Even doing the Turkish airlines promotion he did a great job of avoiding the historical grudge between the Turks and the Armenians, and may have even helped to build some bridges so that those two groups can hopefully move toward a future that is friendlier and more forgiving in the future. (To my mind this starts with people becoming more secular, and turning down the volume on religious ideology and racial/cultural identifications, but that is beside the point).

So, I definitely do not want to speak for Kobe. However, I do think he has the moral high-ground in this instance, because he was just minding his own business and Jim Brown came out and slammed him on national TV just out of the blue. Kobe did nothing more than respond with his tweet referencing Mandela and Dr. King, which was right on the money. Yes it kind of leaves Jim Brown with his butt twisting in the wind, but there is nothing to stop Jim Brown from clarifying his position. To me it seems obvious that Jim (or whoever is Jim Brown's intellectual teacher or leader) has taken umbrage to the fact that Kobe manages to stay above the fray, and that now Kobe is getting all this attention for his new contract, for staying a Laker for Life, and for demonstrating what we could almost call a spiritual strength by coming back so strong after injury and being so solid and unshakeable for so many years. So hey, let's bash Kobe, because hey, he probably wouldn't have stood behind Muhammad Ali. And again, if we're honest, Muhammad Ali was certainly no Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King. Realistically, he seems like he was just a guy who was easily converted to a different religion and then made a big noise about it. By conflating African-Americanism, civil rights, liberalism and the anti-war movement (all good things) with his very foreign and radical Malcom X kind of stuff, which let's be honest nobody in America either black, white or brown was ever really comfortable with, Ali actually hurt the causes he was out there taking credit for. And Malcolm X, Farrakhan, those guys were never even remotely liberal, and were never in favor of desegregation, women's rights and a whole host of things we could mention.

And I will say another thing: I think there is a lot of envy in some places of the world toward America, and specifically toward the position of African Americans in the world. I think people in those countries are often times racist, and look at African Americans and say "why them?" or "we are better than them" and who knows, maybe some of those people want to sow strife in America, because they couldn't care less about America. So if somebody buys into that foreign propaganda and starts walking around in a funny hat talking about "the evil whitey" or whatever... why should we just assume that person is on the side of goodness?

I mean realistically, is there such a thing as a "black intellectual" or a "white intellectual"? So for instance Dr. Cornell West, and I don't know his views or anything, but if we are fair we would just regard him as an "intellectual" and not as a "black intellectual." Some people might say "but hey, his unique experience as an African American qualifies him to be specifically a black intellectual and that shapes his viewpoint" -- YES, but those intellectual viewpoints are only truly valid to the extent that they are broadened toward universal principles and away from racism and racial categorization. Think of the inverse--imagine someone strongly identifies as a "white intellectual" and says that their truths are only for white people and come from the experience of their "whiteness". What would we say about that? So in reality we need to try to move off of these entrenched positions of "white" and "black" and realize that we are all Americans first and foremost and progress from there.

Kobe stands for a lot of good things to a lot of people around the world and largely transcends all cultural and racial divides. Jim Brown should stop to consider the implications of this before he holds himself up as superior to Kobe and tries to trash him in the media.

beasted86
12-13-2013, 08:38 PM
Just sound butthurt your BFF got dissed.

P&GRealist
12-13-2013, 09:05 PM
Just sound butthurt your BFF got dissed.

And you sound butthurt because your BF LeBron hasn't been the center of attention in the media these days.

Kobe's return from the achilles injury
Kobe's new shoes
Kobe having to play the 3 and 4 positions
Kobe now having to play the 1 position
Kobe getting a 2 yr $48.5M extension
Kobe and Jim Brown
Kobe
Kobe
Kobe
Kobe
Kobe


Yeah I know, it's funny when a 4x league mvp and 2x finals mvp and the best player in the world isn't being talked about anymore and a 35 yr old dude in his 18th yr way past his prime is still getting all the attention because he is well...an icon.

Once you reach iconic status, that's usually what happens. You don't even have to be the best at what you do, but positive or negative, you'll still garner all the attention.


Someone's jelly.

bleedprple&gold
12-13-2013, 09:13 PM
Totally unprovoked comments by Brown. It seems like he just wanted to get in the news.

ztilzer31
12-13-2013, 09:30 PM
I just want to say one more thing on this, which is that Kobe Bryant has never held himself up to be a political person. He seems to be someone who goes out of his way to make friends and show respect to all groups of people. Even doing the Turkish airlines promotion he did a great job of avoiding the historical grudge between the Turks and the Armenians, and may have even helped to build some bridges so that those two groups can hopefully move toward a future that is friendlier and more forgiving in the future. (To my mind this starts with people becoming more secular, and turning down the volume on religious ideology and racial/cultural identifications, but that is beside the point).

So, I definitely do not want to speak for Kobe. However, I do think he has the moral high-ground in this instance, because he was just minding his own business and Jim Brown came out and slammed him on national TV just out of the blue. Kobe did nothing more than respond with his tweet referencing Mandela and Dr. King, which was right on the money. Yes it kind of leaves Jim Brown with his butt twisting in the wind, but there is nothing to stop Jim Brown from clarifying his position. To me it seems obvious that Jim (or whoever is Jim Brown's intellectual teacher or leader) has taken umbrage to the fact that Kobe manages to stay above the fray, and that now Kobe is getting all this attention for his new contract, for staying a Laker for Life, and for demonstrating what we could almost call a spiritual strength by coming back so strong after injury and being so solid and unshakeable for so many years. So hey, let's bash Kobe, because hey, he probably wouldn't have stood behind Muhammad Ali. And again, if we're honest, Muhammad Ali was certainly no Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King. Realistically, he seems like he was just a guy who was easily converted to a different religion and then made a big noise about it. By conflating African-Americanism, civil rights, liberalism and the anti-war movement (all good things) with his very foreign and radical Malcom X kind of stuff, which let's be honest nobody in America either black, white or brown was ever really comfortable with, Ali actually hurt the causes he was out there taking credit for. And Malcolm X, Farrakhan, those guys were never even remotely liberal, and were never in favor of desegregation, women's rights and a whole host of things we could mention.

And I will say another thing: I think there is a lot of envy in some places of the world toward America, and specifically toward the position of African Americans in the world. I think people in those countries are often times racist, and look at African Americans and say "why them?" or "we are better than them" and who knows, maybe some of those people want to sow strife in America, because they couldn't care less about America. So if somebody buys into that foreign propaganda and starts walking around in a funny hat talking about "the evil whitey" or whatever... why should we just assume that person is on the side of goodness?

I mean realistically, is there such a thing as a "black intellectual" or a "white intellectual"? So for instance Dr. Cornell West, and I don't know his views or anything, but if we are fair we would just regard him as an "intellectual" and not as a "black intellectual." Some people might say "but hey, his unique experience as an African American qualifies him to be specifically a black intellectual and that shapes his viewpoint" -- YES, but those intellectual viewpoints are only truly valid to the extent that they are broadened toward universal principles and away from racism and racial categorization. Think of the inverse--imagine someone strongly identifies as a "white intellectual" and says that their truths are only for white people and come from the experience of their "whiteness". What would we say about that? So in reality we need to try to move off of these entrenched positions of "white" and "black" and realize that we are all Americans first and foremost and progress from there.

Kobe stands for a lot of good things to a lot of people around the world and largely transcends all cultural and racial divides. Jim Brown should stop to consider the implications of this before he holds himself up as superior to Kobe and tries to trash him in the media.

Probably not. He's too busy solving world hunger, and discovering a cure for aids.

cmellofan15
12-13-2013, 09:32 PM
Even though he was asked about Kobe, I agree the comments were completely unprovoked. No reason to tear Kobe's character apart like he did, especially when you don't even know the guy. Completely classless by Jim Brown.

IKnowHoops
12-13-2013, 11:30 PM
I actually thought Kobe's return tweet was worse than Brown's initial statement. Jim brown never said he was inferior. Kobe tried to put words in Jim Browns mouth to make it sound worse than it was. All Jim Brown said was Kobe threw Shaq under the bus-True. And that because he was raised in another country, he's a little culturally out of touch-may be true. He said he wouldn't invite Kobe to a summit meeting. Jim is an OG, ride or die. Kobe puts other people on front street when he gets caught. Kind of a coward in that respect, not the ride or die type at all.

beasted86
12-14-2013, 01:10 AM
And you sound butthurt because your BF LeBron hasn't been the center of attention in the media these days.

Kobe's return from the achilles injury
Kobe's new shoes
Kobe having to play the 3 and 4 positions
Kobe now having to play the 1 position
Kobe getting a 2 yr $48.5M extension
Kobe and Jim Brown
Kobe
Kobe
Kobe
Kobe
Kobe


Yeah I know, it's funny when a 4x league mvp and 2x finals mvp and the best player in the world isn't being talked about anymore and a 35 yr old dude in his 18th yr way past his prime is still getting all the attention because he is well...an icon.

Once you reach iconic status, that's usually what happens. You don't even have to be the best at what you do, but positive or negative, you'll still garner all the attention.


Someone's jelly.

LeBron? I rarely talk about the guy.

I was just put off by your overall tune of "who is this guy to call out my buddy Kobe on race issues?"

Well, he's Jim Brown, that's who. Not only an arguable top 10 all around American sports figure but a cultural icon for Black America. Maybe I don't agree with him entirely, but I do get where he is coming from completely. When you are talking a Black cultural icons in sports, Kobe shouldn't even be top 50 mention. A lot of these Black sports stars seems almost like they make a dedicated effort to try and make sure the public forgets they are black. I'm not talking about guys trying to break the racial barriers and stereotypes so that people appreciate them for the positive person they are and disregarding colors at all (which is a good thing)... no, I'm talking about guys seemingly making sure their wife isn't black, almost none of their friends or agent isn't black, they aren't seen hanging with any of the stereotypical "black people" (the way a lot of white people characterize as) such as a Lil Wayne or so forth (but they will alternatively be seen with non-blacks of questionable character or reputation). All those things to make themselves a "more acceptable Black". If you are black you'll understand exactly what I'm taking about... if you aren't you just simply might not ever get what I just said. I think these are some of the things Brown was alluding to about Kobe and athletes who don't make an effort (which Brown feels should be a decided and purposeful effort) to support the Black culture in America. Definitely a different approach than Brown took.

kdspurman
12-14-2013, 02:16 AM
Just sound butthurt your BFF got dissed.

It was actually a pretty ignorant comment by Brown

P&GRealist
12-14-2013, 03:44 AM
LeBron? I rarely talk about the guy.

I was just put off by your overall tune of "who is this guy to call out my buddy Kobe on race issues?"

Well, he's Jim Brown, that's who. Not only an arguable top 10 all around American sports figure but a cultural icon for Black America. Maybe I don't agree with him entirely, but I do get where he is coming from completely. When you are talking a Black cultural icons in sports, Kobe shouldn't even be top 50 mention. A lot of these Black sports stars seems almost like they make a dedicated effort to try and make sure the public forgets they are black. I'm not talking about guys trying to break the racial barriers and stereotypes so that people appreciate them for the positive person they are and disregarding colors at all (which is a good thing)... no, I'm talking about guys seemingly making sure their wife isn't black, almost none of their friends or agent isn't black, they aren't seen hanging with any of the stereotypical "black people" (the way a lot of white people characterize as) such as a Lil Wayne or so forth (but they will alternatively be seen with non-blacks of questionable character or reputation). All those things to make themselves a "more acceptable Black". If you are black you'll understand exactly what I'm taking about... if you aren't you just simply might not ever get what I just said. I think these are some of the things Brown was alluding to about Kobe and athletes who don't make an effort (which Brown feels should be a decided and purposeful effort) to support the Black culture in America. Definitely a different approach than Brown took.

Jim Brown abused women left and right homie. He ain't jack **** to judge anyone else.

Apologies for the earlier rant. Nothing against you or King James. Just lot it there for a sec.

ntd
12-14-2013, 04:07 AM
Jim Brown is a complete idiot, anyone he insults should consider it a compliment.

kblo247
12-14-2013, 04:25 AM
Would say Kobe had right to tak offense to basically being told he is not a Black American.

Yes Kobe grew up in Italy, but he's black and an American. He's paid taxes, gave to charities, and done a bunch of different things. It was something that honestly irked Kobe, you could see that when TWC kept asking him about it, and that's not really shocking it pissed him off as he said he used to hear the same thing when he went to high school after coming from Italy

That said Jim brown didnt like Kobe when he was on Best Damn because he said "Kobe didnt respect his greatness enough" when they first met. Jim also called MJ a sellout only interested in commercials and money for what its worth.

I just chalk it up to an old leopard not changing his spots and being salty that these guy grew up in an era where there was no segregation battles and went on to generate hundreds of millions of dollars and be accepted by multiple people. You see the love Kobe gets in places like China or from Black, white, and Hispanic fans on the road even? Jim didnt get that and to be honest the way he talks it seems to be a mutual thing of he too doesn't give that and likes to label who is or isn't black.

Carbine15
12-14-2013, 07:12 AM
I dont know what this is all about but i do agree with the poster who said most these black athletes tend to stay away from there own people. They rarely do anything for black communities. And they do everything to not appear as black.

Kevin Durant is the latest one. He is from seat pleasant a ghetto around here in the county and plenty people are struggling and hurting and dying. What does he do with hundreds of millions of dollars? Nothing. But when white oklahoma gets hit by a tornado and there dying, hurting for cash and struggling he donates a whole million. Do you know how long a million could feed and take care of the seat pleasant area? Smh

It is what it is though.

Sssmush
12-14-2013, 06:43 PM
LeBron? I rarely talk about the guy.

I was just put off by your overall tune of "who is this guy to call out my buddy Kobe on race issues?"

Well, he's Jim Brown, that's who. Not only an arguable top 10 all around American sports figure but a cultural icon for Black America. Maybe I don't agree with him entirely, but I do get where he is coming from completely. When you are talking a Black cultural icons in sports, Kobe shouldn't even be top 50 mention. A lot of these Black sports stars seems almost like they make a dedicated effort to try and make sure the public forgets they are black. I'm not talking about guys trying to break the racial barriers and stereotypes so that people appreciate them for the positive person they are and disregarding colors at all (which is a good thing)... no, I'm talking about guys seemingly making sure their wife isn't black, almost none of their friends or agent isn't black, they aren't seen hanging with any of the stereotypical "black people" (the way a lot of white people characterize as) such as a Lil Wayne or so forth (but they will alternatively be seen with non-blacks of questionable character or reputation). All those things to make themselves a "more acceptable Black". If you are black you'll understand exactly what I'm taking about... if you aren't you just simply might not ever get what I just said. I think these are some of the things Brown was alluding to about Kobe and athletes who don't make an effort (which Brown feels should be a decided and purposeful effort) to support the Black culture in America. Definitely a different approach than Brown took.

You make some good points, and I do think it (possibly) has more validity if directed toward someone like Tiger Woods, who from a distance seems to hobnob exclusively with the uber elite country club set and that kind of thing. But we could also say that Tiger Woods represents a tremendous role model for a lot of African American people and is also kind of a trans-racial ambassador who builds a lot of bridges in America. I honestly don't think he'd be any more "black" if he started hanging out with Lil' Wayne smoking blunts and drinking drank, and really he'd probably disappoint a lot of African American people. And it seems like Tiger is just keeping it real... he's a dude from Torrance that is just really studious and maybe kind of nerd-like and totally focused on golf. I honestly don't think he'd be prejudiced against anybody just on the matter of race, and if I were to guess I'd say he's done a lot for the community.

As for KOBE, I mean, c'mon. Kobe's been like the actual king of the NBA for like 10 years. He played on the USA Olympic basketball team and was regarded by everyone on the team as the de facto leader and the best and most respected alpha dog player. We could say the same thing about all the All Star teams he's played on. I mean, leaving race out of this altogether as I don't actually believe in the concept of "race" because it is just a matter of how a few of our chromosomes are ordered and there is no such thing as a discrete racial type ("the china man" / "the black man" / "the white man" / etc) and we are all actually descended from Africa anyway, but leaving race out of this altogether I do not see how Kobe could be called not culturally "black enough" by anybody.

I mean Kobe essentially dominates black culture by being the biggest basketball star in America, for almost twenty years. In that sense Kobe is as "black" as Lawrence Taylor or Joe Frazier and his existential experience of his "blackness" is every bit as genuine and real. Kobe had to go out there and fight for it in the NBA every day for his entire career, there is always somebody trying to punk him out, steal the ball, block his shot, talk trash, beat him at his own game, whatever. But Kobe has risen to the top because he is the real deal. Again this has nothing to do with race, but culturally the NBA is somewhat regarded as a "black" sub-culture and Kobe has sitten atop it forever. So wtf Jim Brown manages to say Kobe isn't "black enough" ... because he was raised in Italy or something? I can see if he called him out on supporting a specific cause or initiative that Jim was involved in, but to just toss him under the bus seemed odd.

Anyway, it was wrong of me to title the thread "Jim brown is an idiot" or whatever, as soon as I posted or as it was going up I wanted to re-title it but it was too late. But he does come across sometimes as this kind of misogynistic "keep women in their place" and "this is a man's world" kind of super macho dummy--I know that he's not, I know that his intelligence is part of his appeal and frankly he is probably kind of a fantasy figure for a lot of women. Also we could say that he was never a druggie and there are other good things about him. But when he steps in it and says something foolish like this with his profound seriousness and deep gravitas it just comes across as utterly ridiculous.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9f1TYyvEx8

Sssmush
12-14-2013, 06:54 PM
I dont know what this is all about but i do agree with the poster who said most these black athletes tend to stay away from there own people. They rarely do anything for black communities. And they do everything to not appear as black.

Kevin Durant is the latest one. He is from seat pleasant a ghetto around here in the county and plenty people are struggling and hurting and dying. What does he do with hundreds of millions of dollars? Nothing. But when white oklahoma gets hit by a tornado and there dying, hurting for cash and struggling he donates a whole million. Do you know how long a million could feed and take care of the seat pleasant area? Smh

It is what it is though.

I don't know about that... you would think he would do some good things for his own community, but who knows maybe he barely survived, maybe he really wanted to get out of that place and never wanted to look back. He's entitled to give back however and whenever he wants. But I don't think KD has exclusively white friends and actually I think he just married a sister, his longtime girlfriend or something. But I'd say that probably he does help the community somehow behind the scenes, we just don't know. And regardless, by being a good person he helps to dissolve the "racial" barriers between different communities, so that people become more trusting to hire each other and do business with each other and get past a lot of stereotypes. I mean I feel like that has been solved in America for many years but sometimes the media kind of perpetuates weird stereotypes so some one like KD who is like this nice country guy / all american athlete kind of image is a positive role model.

Pablonovi
12-14-2013, 07:20 PM
I don't want to get into most of what the OP says; because we couldn't disagree more.

About Jim Brown. I'm old enough to watch his NFL career in its entirety. He was an awesome back; arguably the best ever. On this I have no position because frankly I haven't studied it enough; comparing him to the other great backs.

JIM BROWN OFF THE FOOTBALL FIELD. He used to get interviewed very frequently. I saw perhaps as many as 100 of those and here's how I see that: I have NEVER ever heard a worse interviewee than Jim Brown. In particular, he never, ever had a good word to say about any other running back; while praising himself to the skies. I found him embarrassing to himself and to the NFL and to the world of the announcers.

Carbine15
12-15-2013, 01:58 AM
I don't know about that... you would think he would do some good things for his own community, but who knows maybe he barely survived, maybe he really wanted to get out of that place and never wanted to look back. He's entitled to give back however and whenever he wants. But I don't think KD has exclusively white friends and actually I think he just married a sister, his longtime girlfriend or something. But I'd say that probably he does help the community somehow behind the scenes, we just don't know. And regardless, by being a good person he helps to dissolve the "racial" barriers between different communities, so that people become more trusting to hire each other and do business with each other and get past a lot of stereotypes. I mean I feel like that has been solved in America for many years but sometimes the media kind of perpetuates weird stereotypes so some one like KD who is like this nice country guy / all american athlete kind of image is a positive role model.
Hes suppose to take care of his own people first. And he didnt just leave seat pleasant and never look baxk because he used to come back all the time to the run and shoot and play ball with us even when he made it to the NBA. We got love for Durant outhere but after giving a million to the white people and leaving his people hanging its kind of sour. Im not being racist i just believe you take care of your own first. Giving all that cash to them white people was a major statement around the league and media he was praised for it but yet he cant give back to people in his community who supported him all the way when they been worst off than anybody for decades.

It is what it is though. Because Durant is not the only one. Blacks and hispanics dominate sports and they dominate most the money by the billions when you combine them but yet there communities they come from are still poor, struggling and dying. Thats a problem.

OaklandsFinest
12-15-2013, 02:23 AM
If Jim Brown calls you an Uncle Tom... You are well, an Uncle Tom. How are his statments ignorant? He just stated that Kobe threw Shaq under the bus and doesn't share the same principals as a man who takes a stand for something

kblo247
12-15-2013, 05:27 AM
If Jim Brown calls you an Uncle Tom... You are well, an Uncle Tom. How are his statments ignorant? He just stated that Kobe threw Shaq under the bus and doesn't share the same principals as a man who takes a stand for something

So. Jordan is an Uncle Tom?

And do you know who Uncle Tom actually is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2K6gher-8o

smiddy012
12-15-2013, 09:47 AM
I dont know what this is all about but i do agree with the poster who said most these black athletes tend to stay away from there own people. They rarely do anything for black communities. And they do everything to not appear as black.

Kevin Durant is the latest one. He is from seat pleasant a ghetto around here in the county and plenty people are struggling and hurting and dying. What does he do with hundreds of millions of dollars? Nothing. But when white oklahoma gets hit by a tornado and there dying, hurting for cash and struggling he donates a whole million. Do you know how long a million could feed and take care of the seat pleasant area? Smh

It is what it is though.

Generalize much? Talk about an archaic mindset...

To your general point - its not just celebrities or pro stars who've turned their backs on poor America, its the entire country. Its k street, wall street, hollywood blvd, etc. And the lower and middle classes are clearly losing.

There are a decent number of rich folks (Bill Gates, George Lukas) bucking the trend though, as I'm not willing to ignorantly stereotype an entire group of people, denying whatever progress some of them are making.

smiddy012
12-15-2013, 10:02 AM
Hes suppose to take care of his own people first. And he didnt just leave seat pleasant and never look baxk because he used to come back all the time to the run and shoot and play ball with us even when he made it to the NBA. We got love for Durant outhere but after giving a million to the white people and leaving his people hanging its kind of sour. Im not being racist i just believe you take care of your own first. Giving all that cash to them white people was a major statement around the league and media he was praised for it but yet he cant give back to people in his community who supported him all the way when they been worst off than anybody for decades.

It is what it is though. Because Durant is not the only one. Blacks and hispanics dominate sports and they dominate most the money by the billions when you combine them but yet there communities they come from are still poor, struggling and dying. Thats a problem.

The problem, which you so ironically encompass, is that we see America through an eye-glass of race. The true minority in the US, those who are truly most disadvantaged, are not those who are particularly white, hispanic, or black, they are those who are impoverished. Sadly though, many of the poor confuse the class warfare of today for the race warfare of the past (and this is of no coincidence).

smiddy012
12-15-2013, 10:06 AM
So. Jordan is an Uncle Tom?

How did you come to that inference?

smiddy012
12-15-2013, 10:13 AM
JB's just jealous. Back in his day, he had to deal with so much more ish, and barely got paid anything for it. Dude was so ahead of his time, woulda killed to see what he'd do in the modern NFL (which is what he was physically made for).

COOLbeans
12-15-2013, 02:33 PM
Nobody in this forum knows what Jim Brown knows about Kobe Bryant. He knows stuff the media and YOU probably don't.

Sssmush
12-15-2013, 07:08 PM
Nobody in this forum knows what Jim Brown knows about Kobe Bryant. He knows stuff the media and YOU probably don't.

Well, one thing I do know about Kobe Bryant, and I don't want to get into conspiracy theory type stuff, but one thing I do know about Kobe Bryant is that he is such an outstanding individual that it seems very likely he was set up by some persons in Denver, Colorado, in order to put a large stain on his record and make sure that he could never run for president or something like that. Because he is such an excellent athlete and demonstrates such strength of character, but then he is also very tight and organized and extremely articulate, and has none of the cigar-smoking-super-high-stakes-gambling-partying character defects of a Michael Jordan. Honestly Kobe just comes off as more clever and sophisticated than Jordan... to the point where I don't think Kobe will even fit into the NBA/TNT/Barkley/Shaq/Van Gundy/Reggie Miller kind of commentator rotation because he will probably come across as too high-minded.

Some people will read Kobe's high-mindedness as being a "sellout" or "not black enough" or "leaving behind his own people" while others will read it as "arrogance" or "extreme arrogance" or "unbearably arrogant" or "too smart for his own good" or what have you. None of the criticisms are fair, and actually I think Kobe is really humorous sometimes, but the fact is that he is just a very serious person and doesn't swerve for anybody.

But back to the main point, in retrospect it looks to me like Kobe was flat out set up in Denver: the hotel he's staying at is mostly empty, the night auditor on duty is a troubled nymphomaniac 20 year old blonde with the semen of 3 men already in her thong underwear, and she accompanies Kobe to his room and ****s him on the spot. Then texts about it gleefully with her friends, then *somehow* files a report about it days later, which is followed up by the DA and sheriff as if they are going after Al Capone, yada yada yada, eventually the case dissolves into nothingness because it was all bull****, but not before substantial harm is done to Kobe's longterm reputation, and then all the parties involved withdraw back into the woodwork, never to be heard or seen from again, and *voila* now you never have to worry about a Kobe Bryant in 2036 presidential bid or something like that, after he has become an activist and graduated from Harvard law or something. They will still say "he is a rapist" and what not, and it is all a bunch of lies. The media should've really zeroed in on that mess a lot more; maybe someday we'll have a secret recording of that DA admitting the entire thing on tape.

But yeah I do agree with what some other posters said about class warfare and economic barriers and that kind of thing. And another thing that looms larger as we move into this kind of new "future shock" generation is the vast difference between those who are educated and those who aren't. Teach kids how to use computers, how to program them, how to find value or create value. The days of mass factory yobs or mass farming yobs is just over, societies have to readjust. I feel like some good things are going to happen and there will be some good outcomes in America but this whole mentality of "let's unionize so we can all get $12 an hour digging ditches" or whatever should be a thing of the past. I know it is so so very difficult, but the real heroes of our communities should be people who are creating innovations in bringing education to the disenfranchised or disadvantaged. For isntance things like Khan Academy (https://www.khanacademy.org/)

https://www.khanacademy.org/

nyknicks1969
12-15-2013, 07:11 PM
Jim Brown reminds me of the Japanese Soldiers they discovered off remote Phillipines' islands some years back who thought the War was still going.

I hear Brown and frankly I am listening to someone who is as bigoted and racist as anyone else.

COOLbeans
12-15-2013, 08:20 PM
Well, one thing I do know about Kobe Bryant, and I don't want to get into conspiracy theory type stuff, but one thing I do know about Kobe Bryant is that he is such an outstanding individual that it seems very likely he was set up by some persons in Denver, Colorado, in order to put a large stain on his record and make sure that he could never run for president or something like that. Because he is such an excellent athlete and demonstrates such strength of character, but then he is also very tight and organized and extremely articulate, and has none of the cigar-smoking-super-high-stakes-gambling-partying character defects of a Michael Jordan. Honestly Kobe just comes off as more clever and sophisticated than Jordan... to the point where I don't think Kobe will even fit into the NBA/TNT/Barkley/Shaq/Van Gundy/Reggie Miller kind of commentator rotation because he will probably come across as too high-minded.

Some people will read Kobe's high-mindedness as being a "sellout" or "not black enough" or "leaving behind his own people" while others will read it as "arrogance" or "extreme arrogance" or "unbearably arrogant" or "too smart for his own good" or what have you. None of the criticisms are fair, and actually I think Kobe is really humorous sometimes, but the fact is that he is just a very serious person and doesn't swerve for anybody.

But back to the main point, in retrospect it looks to me like Kobe was flat out set up in Denver: the hotel he's staying at is mostly empty, the night auditor on duty is a troubled nymphomaniac 20 year old blonde with the semen of 3 men already in her thong underwear, and she accompanies Kobe to his room and ****s him on the spot. Then texts about it gleefully with her friends, then *somehow* files a report about it days later, which is followed up by the DA and sheriff as if they are going after Al Capone, yada yada yada, eventually the case dissolves into nothingness because it was all bull****, but not before substantial harm is done to Kobe's longterm reputation, and then all the parties involved withdraw back into the woodwork, never to be heard or seen from again, and *voila* now you never have to worry about a Kobe Bryant in 2036 presidential bid or something like that, after he has become an activist and graduated from Harvard law or something. They will still say "he is a rapist" and what not, and it is all a bunch of lies. The media should've really zeroed in on that mess a lot more; maybe someday we'll have a secret recording of that DA admitting the entire thing on tape.

But yeah I do agree with what some other posters said about class warfare and economic barriers and that kind of thing. And another thing that looms larger as we move into this kind of new "future shock" generation is the vast difference between those who are educated and those who aren't. Teach kids how to use computers, how to program them, how to find value or create value. The days of mass factory yobs or mass farming yobs is just over, societies have to readjust. I feel like some good things are going to happen and there will be some good outcomes in America but this whole mentality of "let's unionize so we can all get $12 an hour digging ditches" or whatever should be a thing of the past. I know it is so so very difficult, but the real heroes of our communities should be people who are creating innovations in bringing education to the disenfranchised or disadvantaged. For isntance things like Khan Academy (https://www.khanacademy.org/)

https://www.khanacademy.org/

Thanks for your post. But I don't think Jim Brown was confusing 'high minded ness' with anyone being a sellout and I don't think that's what he was saying about Kobe in the first place.

You don't have to be a sellout to project the image of not caring about serious cultural issues pertaining to civil rights: Issues that affect Kobe's cousins (stop and frisk laws, the Tryavon Martin killing etc.), his old friends, and distant relatives who aren't famous and aren't rich but are institutionally discriminated against on a daily basis.

Don't know many details about Denver so I'm going to give Kobe the benefit of the doubt on that one.

COOLbeans
12-15-2013, 08:24 PM
Jim Brown reminds me of the Japanese Soldiers they discovered off remote Phillipines' islands some years back who thought the War was still going.

I hear Brown and frankly I am listening to someone who is as bigoted and racist as anyone else.

You think Jim Brown is just as bigoted and racist of a person as the perpetrators of Jim Crow laws? Lol

Why, because he made a comment about Kobe?

Tony_Starks
12-16-2013, 01:21 AM
Jim Browns comments were unprovoked and unwarranted but that in no way diminishes the great accomplishments he's made. To come out and speak up for black people at a time they were regarded basically as second class citizens was unheard of at the time by most superstar athletes. Most were content to tow the line, not really have any opinion, and be good "non threatening" black folks.

People like him, Ali, Kareem, Bill Russel weren't having it....

WES KOAST
12-16-2013, 01:32 AM
actually what jim brown said made perfect sense...for tiger woods

LA_Raiders
12-16-2013, 01:39 AM
The result of Too many hits in the head.

Sssmush
12-17-2013, 04:25 AM
Thanks for your post. But I don't think Jim Brown was confusing 'high minded ness' with anyone being a sellout and I don't think that's what he was saying about Kobe in the first place.

You don't have to be a sellout to project the image of not caring about serious cultural issues pertaining to civil rights: Issues that affect Kobe's cousins (stop and frisk laws, the Tryavon Martin killing etc.), his old friends, and distant relatives who aren't famous and aren't rich but are institutionally discriminated against on a daily basis.

Don't know many details about Denver so I'm going to give Kobe the benefit of the doubt on that one.

You make some really good points. There is no doubt that horrific events like the Trayvon Martin killing (and the grotesque legal and media travesty that followed) and various other injustices are very real and ongoing problems that none of us can gloss over with a clear conscience while others are suffering.

I would say that Kobe does exhibit a very serious attitude about himself and about sports and carries himself with a measure of dignity and respect that isn't at all incompatible with an awareness of the fact that we do live in world where there is a lot of injustice and poverty. In that sense Kobe and Jim Brown are actually oddly similar, out of all the athletes I could name, in that they both have this extreme seriousness and seem to rarely if ever smile. So it's interesting actually that JB singled out Kobe specifically as the one guy that he wouldn't invite to whatever summit or whatever he was talking about.

Again, I shouldn't have called Jim Brown an idiot in the title of the thread; it seemed clever at the moment but really isn't fair to him, as someone who has tried to stand for something in his life, and it comes across differently from what I was trying to say. Even though I disagree with some of the things he says I do have respect for his courage, even if I don't think he's as awesome as he seems to think he is sometimes.

Paul Jeffrey
12-17-2013, 08:03 AM
]First of all... just because you can run fast and play football and have name recognition doesn't make you an automatic leader or thinker of the community.[/B] And the "who would've stood with Muhammad Ali" question... just wrong. And this thing about trashing Kobe out of the blue on television... just wtf? Because Kobe was brought up in Italy?

In retrospect, the whole Muhammad Ali anti-war thing seems like a total nonstarter. YES the war was bad and YES standing up against the war was great. But from the present day it's easy to see that the whole event was hijacked by the Black Muslim movement, which now seems like it was an attempt to radicalize minority population groups in our country into religious extremism. (I'd highly recommend the 2012 Joe Frazier HBO documentary by the way). This push toward religious extremism was probably funded from outside the US, and had the effect of hardening racial prejudice and scaring "white" folks in America, by combining foreign religious culture and rhetoric with african-americanism and essentially making the two things seem the same--which they never, ever were. It was like a PR nightmare for african amerianism and probably set the movement back 20 years. This persists to this day (see also: Fox News vs Barack Obama), even though something like 99.9% of black folks in America are Christian or spiritual/other and have never bought in to the radical Farrakhan type of racial rhetoric at all. And post 9/11 public awareness of religious extremism is far greater: America is an increasingly secular nation, and poll after poll shows that people across the board want to move beyond racism toward harmony. Groups that (literally) call themselves "black" or "white", whether they are religious extremist or not, do not help that cause.

I mean just imagine if instead of Muhammad Ali, it had been Cassius Clay lining up in the tradition of Martin Luther King to speak out for racial equality and for ending the war in Viet Nam. The war might've ended years earlier, and racial harmony might've been far closer at hand in America; instead the media moment was hijacked by a bunch of mean looking guys in bow ties and black suits and dark glasses staring at every body violently and saying mean angry words things and threatening American culture with everything from foreign religious doctrines to race war, to the separation of the races and to outright revolution.

And for Jim Brown to now, in 2013, invoke all that kind of fumbling foolishness and hostile racial imagery and try to question anybody's manhood or Americanism on the basis of whether or not they would've stood behind Muhammad Ali... *ugh* really?

I think Jim Brown is a good actor and I like his movies, however he is WAY off base with these recent comments. If he is truly the awesome alpha male father figure that he seems to be representing then he owes it to himself to think all these issues through more deeply and to clarify his views for his followers or admirers, so that we can move past racism and racial distrust or divisions in America.

If you want people to take you seriously, don't go down playing the abilities required to play the sport and position Jim Brown excelled at before you even state your position.

You say Jim Brown just ran fast. I can say Kobe just puts a ball in a basket.