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Deception
12-11-2013, 02:08 PM
ESPN released an article stating their top 25 players under the age of 25, kind of a shocking list (surprise!). Anyways, here's their list in numerical order:

Anthony Davis
Paul George
Andre Drummond
James Harden
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Kylie Irving
Damian Lilliard
Demarcus Cousins
Derrick Favors
Eric Bledsoe
Serge Ibaka
Greg Monroe
Kawhi Leonard
Michael Carter-Williams
Nicolas Batum
Harrison Barnes
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Gordon Hayward
Jrue Holliday
Klay Thompson
Nikola Vucevic
Ricky Rubio
Jonas Valanciunas
John Henson

If anyone wants to know ESPN's insight about a certain player, you can PM, since I'm not allowed to post insider material.

ESPN's next 10 picks, after their initial list:
Bradley Beal
Victor Oladipo
Jimmy Butler
Lance Stephenson
Isaiah Thomas
Andrew Nicholson
Kenneth Faried
Mason Plumlee
Reggie Jackson
Trey Burke

warfelg
12-11-2013, 02:18 PM
Would you look at that.

The Sixers traded up!!

King_melo
12-11-2013, 02:24 PM
They left Demar Derozan off.

2-ONE-5
12-11-2013, 02:46 PM
Favors is too high he should be below Vuc and Rubio should be higher ahead of Giannis

True Sports Fan
12-11-2013, 02:55 PM
Hayward, Klay, Rubio are too low. Harden should be above Drummond, and George is debatable as well. I think Favors is a bit high too. I think Leonard should be a little bit higher, as should Monroe.

NYMetros
12-11-2013, 03:05 PM
Yeah Harden should be over Drummond.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-11-2013, 03:06 PM
Drummond will be the 2nd best in the group when it is all said and done.

Deception
12-11-2013, 03:11 PM
I would go Paul George 1st. Andre is a little too high, but there's no doubt he has one of the highest ceilings. Also think Bledsoe is too high, he's played really well, but still..

tredigs
12-11-2013, 03:12 PM
Is this supposed to be a projection list of these players potential? As is it makes no sense.

RipCity32
12-11-2013, 03:21 PM
Drummond!!!

mightybosstone
12-11-2013, 03:22 PM
As others have said, Harden should clearly be above Drummond. Favors is also clearly too high, and the Greek Freak is way too high. I also have issues with a few other players, but overall it's not a bad list. It just needs some re-ordering.

RipCity32
12-11-2013, 03:22 PM
Was this put out just recently?

jerellh528
12-11-2013, 03:26 PM
Klay thompson is underrated

Deception
12-11-2013, 03:31 PM
Is this supposed to be a projection list of these players potential? As is it makes no sense.
From ESPN:
This season, we ranked our top 25 under 25 not based on who they are now, but who they can become. It's not solely based on potential as much as the projection on how much of that full potential can be reached. In a sense, this ranking represents how these players would be drafted if each were available in the draft right now.

To be clear: This is a ranking of how we would order these players if we were starting a franchise and would have them for the next several years, not just this season. The overall rankings are based on an aggregate average of the individual rankings of our trio of NBA experts.

Was this put out just recently?
Just put out today.

todu82
12-11-2013, 03:47 PM
I'd have James Harden a lot higher than #4.

Hawkeye15
12-11-2013, 04:00 PM
yeah, this list is for who they would want over the next several years. While Harden FOR SURE has more short term value than Drummond, Andre could easily turn into the better two way player. People forget how bad Harden is defensively most nights, where as Drummond will most likely become a monster when Monroe leaves and he becomes the main post option.

I could see a 19/13/4 next season, with a 22/14/3 type season after that. He simply needs a few more touches, and to raise his FT% a good margin, something that is bound to happen.

All that being said, Harden should probably be over him until we see that next step in progression.

5ass
12-11-2013, 04:12 PM
Pretty ****** list. Vuc is a beast

kdspurman
12-11-2013, 04:14 PM
yeah, this list is for who they would want over the next several years. While Harden FOR SURE has more short term value than Drummond, Andre could easily turn into the better two way player. People forget how bad Harden is defensively most nights, where as Drummond will most likely become a monster when Monroe leaves and he becomes the main post option.

I could see a 19/13/4 next season, with a 22/14/3 type season after that. He simply needs a few more touches, and to raise his FT% a good margin, something that is bound to happen.

All that being said, Harden should probably be over him until we see that next step in progression.

I agree with that, Harden is really bad defensively lol. You take a 2-way dominant big man over an offensive minded guard 10/10

odiz
12-11-2013, 04:19 PM
As others have said, Harden should clearly be above Drummond. Favors is also clearly too high, and the Greek Freak is way too high. I also have issues with a few other players, but overall it's not a bad list. It just needs some re-ordering.

Its obviously off potential otherwise Antetokounmpo and his 4.9 PPG wouldnt be on the list. Going off potential id take Drummond over Harden any day.

Stunner
12-11-2013, 04:21 PM
No Jimmy Butler ?

odiz
12-11-2013, 04:21 PM
yeah, this list is for who they would want over the next several years. While Harden FOR SURE has more short term value than Drummond, Andre could easily turn into the better two way player. People forget how bad Harden is defensively most nights, where as Drummond will most likely become a monster when Monroe leaves and he becomes the main post option.

I could see a 19/13/4 next season, with a 22/14/3 type season after that. He simply needs a few more touches, and to raise his FT% a good margin, something that is bound to happen.

All that being said, Harden should probably be over him until we see that next step in progression.

This is the key. His athleticism and natural progression will turn him into the near 22/14/3 player you suggested but if he cant shoot above 40% from the FT line you cant play him in tight situations and it really hurts his value to the team.

ManRam
12-11-2013, 04:28 PM
Seems very reactionary to the very early parts of this season, as a whole. Don't feel like sifting through it player by player though. That's just what seems to stand out.

Bob_at_york
12-11-2013, 04:48 PM
I am surprised Hayward made the list.

Pierzynski4Prez
12-11-2013, 04:50 PM
No Jimmy Butler ?

No, and he shouldn't be. JB hasn't really accomplished much besides getting way over-hyped by us Bulls fans and a handful of decent playoff games. His per36 numbers aren't even above average. A lot of these guys were high lottery picks, so they are seen to have a lot of potential. JB was what, the 30th pick, therefore he likely isn't seen to have as high of a ceiling as the guys listed.

chi-townlove1
12-11-2013, 05:31 PM
Your crazy.. I'm not saying he's the second coming of MJ. But the guy is top 7 defensive player in the entire game

Pierzynski4Prez
12-11-2013, 05:48 PM
Your crazy.. I'm not saying he's the second coming of MJ. But the guy is top 7 defensive player in the entire game

That's very debatable and I'm sure there are plenty of posters here that can prove you wrong on that. By all means I want to agree, but Butler's sample size is just way to small to prove that, or prove that he has the potential to be what we hope him to be. Nothing in his #'s stand out outside of being 16th in the league in SPG this year.

Deception
12-11-2013, 05:50 PM
Your crazy.. I'm not saying he's the second coming of MJ. But the guy is top 7 defensive player in the entire game

Does that mean Tony Allen would be on this list if he were under the age requirements?

Hawkeye15
12-11-2013, 06:16 PM
Your crazy.. I'm not saying he's the second coming of MJ. But the guy is top 7 defensive player in the entire game

he isn't a top 7 defensive player dude. No way. Excellent defender, but not even close to the impact of a healthy Marc Gasol, or Dwight Howard, Noah, Chandler when healthy, or a few other anchor defenders. And there are still perimeter defenders like Allen, LeBron, CP3. While I personally feel Ibaka is an overrated defender (only because he is viewed by the media as a 1st teamer type), he is better too.

Butler misses the cut on this list for a reason. I like him as a player, and think he can be an above average starter throughout his next 6-7 years, but he isn't sniffing all star games or anything like that.

Pierzynski4Prez
12-11-2013, 06:49 PM
he isn't a top 7 defensive player dude. No way. Excellent defender, but not even close to the impact of a healthy Marc Gasol, or Dwight Howard, Noah, Chandler when healthy, or a few other anchor defenders. And there are still perimeter defenders like Allen, LeBron, CP3. While I personally feel Ibaka is an overrated defender (only because he is viewed by the media as a 1st teamer type), he is better too.

Butler misses the cut on this list for a reason. I like him as a player, and think he can be an above average starter throughout his next 6-7 years, but he isn't sniffing all star games or anything like that.

I definitely agree. Don't say that in the Bulls forum though. I see his ceiling as prime Luol Deng actually which is kind of funny.

DreamShaker
12-11-2013, 07:22 PM
I agree with that, Harden is really bad defensively lol. You take a 2-way dominant big man over an offensive minded guard 10/10

It is an effort thing for him. He can take over any game on offense, and is a really good passer and a solid rebounding guard, but he gambles or gives up WAY too much. Now the Rockets were humbled by the Suns and Jazz after beating the Spurs, and since then he has played GREAT stretches of D against good players. He still ventures towards bad habits, but if he continues to be locked in, he can be a legit MVP candidate.

As far as Drummond goes, I agree with your point. Elite big guys are hard to find, and Drummond has boundless potential. I totally get why they ranked him ahead of Harden if we are talking about potential, but the list was confusing because Kyrie Irving was way more potential than John Wall, even if Wall is currently playing better. So...weird.

MTar786
12-11-2013, 07:30 PM
PG number 1!

Wade n Fade
12-11-2013, 07:41 PM
Some of the people at the top are out of order, but the list has some talent. Who is this Giannis Antetokounmpo guy though?

BALLER R
12-11-2013, 07:41 PM
wow where's Derozan

RipCity32
12-11-2013, 07:45 PM
It is an effort thing for him. He can take over any game on offense, and is a really good passer and a solid rebounding guard, but he gambles or gives up WAY too much. Now the Rockets were humbled by the Suns and Jazz after beating the Spurs, and since then he has played GREAT stretches of D against good players. He still ventures towards bad habits, but if he continues to be locked in, he can be a legit MVP candidate.

As far as Drummond goes, I agree with your point. Elite big guys are hard to find, and Drummond has boundless potential. I totally get why they ranked him ahead of Harden if we are talking about potential, but the list was confusing because Kyrie Irving was way more potential than John Wall, even if Wall is currently playing better. So...weird.

I don't think so, Kyrie is very flashy offensively and can amaze people with his handles but Wall put up big numbers offensively as well. Irving is also terrible on defense.

Vinny642
12-11-2013, 08:35 PM
Anthony Davis doing his thing!

NBA_Starter
12-11-2013, 09:32 PM
Kyrie seems kind of low.

Hulk6
12-11-2013, 11:03 PM
Demarcus should be higher than Lillard, Griffin, Wall and Drummond... ACtually watch Cousins play and you will see he is already more offensively advanced than Drum will ever be and his defense is not that far behind if not on par with Andre's

soundjunkies2
12-11-2013, 11:06 PM
Batum isn't even 25. It feels like he's been in the league for ever.

Deception
12-12-2013, 12:58 AM
Demarcus should be higher than Lillard, Griffin, Wall and Drummond... ACtually watch Cousins play and you will see he is already more offensively advanced than Drum will ever be and his defense is not that far behind if not on par with Andre's

Read the description behind these rankings and let us know if you agree again.

2-ONE-5
12-12-2013, 10:26 AM
Demarcus should be higher than Lillard, Griffin, Wall and Drummond... ACtually watch Cousins play and you will see he is already more offensively advanced than Drum will ever be and his defense is not that far behind if not on par with Andre's

based on what? he has been the focal point of the Kings since day 1 pretty much and is just starting to improve and clean up his attitude. All of those players you listed are top contributers on winning teams right now except Wall but hes having his ebst year and his team will make the playoffs.

2-ONE-5
12-12-2013, 10:27 AM
also i think Giannis should not be on this list while Oladipo is not

Vinylman
12-12-2013, 10:37 AM
NBA Experts :rolleyes:

LMFAO

In a sense, this ranking represents how these players would be drafted if each were available in the draft right now.

If the above is truly what they did then the 1-2 would be clear cut

Harden/George

Elite SG are scarce nowadays...

bigs are irrelevant for the most part and can be manned by non-elites to win titles (see every title since Duncan's last)

and no... pau gasol was not elite in the lakers last 2 championships

RipCity32
12-12-2013, 11:53 AM
NBA Experts :rolleyes:

LMFAO

In a sense, this ranking represents how these players would be drafted if each were available in the draft right now.

If the above is truly what they did then the 1-2 would be clear cut

Harden/George

Elite SG are scarce nowadays...

bigs are irrelevant for the most part and can be manned by non-elites to win titles (see every title since Duncan's last)

and no... pau gasol was not elite in the lakers last 2 championships

I would still take Davis over both of them.

Vinylman
12-12-2013, 12:02 PM
I would still take Davis over both of them.

to each his own

my commentary was on their draft logic... not a slight to either davis or drummond

again... there are virtually no elite 2s around and it is a much more critical position in the NEW NBA.

lakeshow22
12-12-2013, 06:44 PM
No Eric Gordon or Bradley Beal?

Sactown
12-13-2013, 01:32 AM
based on what? he has been the focal point of the Kings since day 1 pretty much and is just starting to improve and clean up his attitude. All of those players you listed are top contributers on winning teams right now except Wall but hes having his ebst year and his team will make the playoffs.

Eh, Detroit isn't really a winning team and the Kings have played one of the most difficult schedules, also you're right DMC is the pivotal point on the Kings while the others are all second options (minus wall) . Not like Blame amounted to much as a number #1 option. There's definitely an argument to be made when you look DMCs potential and impact this season.

2-ONE-5
12-13-2013, 12:17 PM
edit: was thinking i was in the AS thread.

anyways DMC still has tons to prove to raise his profile. Lillard and Griffin are alrady more established, Wall is kinda in the same boat as Cousins, and Drummon has made a massive leap this year and is only like 20.

Jarvo
12-14-2013, 02:41 AM
Paul George should be #1

mike_noodles
12-14-2013, 04:10 PM
No love for Demarr. Shame.

Deception
12-15-2013, 12:35 AM
It should be worth noting the next 10 players they would pick past their initial list.
1. Bradley Beal
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Jimmy Butler
4. Lance Stephenson
5. Isaiah Thomas
6. Andrew Nicholson
7. Kenneth Faried
8. Mason Plumlee
9. Reggie Jackson
10. Trey Burke

Bob_at_york
12-15-2013, 08:52 AM
It should be worth noting the next 10 players they would pick past their initial list.
1. Bradley Beal
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Jimmy Butler
4. Lance Stephenson
5. Isaiah Thomas
6. Andrew Nicholson
7. Kenneth Faried
8. Mason Plumlee
9. Reggie Jackson
10. Trey Burke

Why no derozan on your list?

YoungOne
12-15-2013, 09:11 AM
how can sullinger not be on this list?

BALLER R
12-15-2013, 09:12 AM
Why no derozan on your list?

he get's no love

Deception
12-15-2013, 09:57 PM
Why no derozan on your list?

I didn't make the list, ESPN made both

Johann
12-16-2013, 02:02 AM
¿Donde esta Demar Derozan?

2-ONE-5
12-16-2013, 10:09 AM
how can sullinger not be on this list?

in place of who? Sullinger is justa decent compimentary player

Bob_at_york
12-16-2013, 11:06 AM
I didn't make the list, ESPN made both

oh. I thought you made the additional 10. My bad.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-16-2013, 12:44 PM
As others have said, Harden should clearly be above Drummond. Favors is also clearly too high, and the Greek Freak is way too high. I also have issues with a few other players, but overall it's not a bad list. It just needs some re-ordering. Greek freak is a beast. Just didn't get many minutes till just lately. He's a highlight reel every game.