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nyr2002nyr
12-11-2013, 09:20 AM
This truly has been long overdue but when Sather leaves who fills the role of GM?

Ch0ZSeN1
12-11-2013, 10:18 AM
Messier

nyr2002nyr
12-11-2013, 10:23 AM
Messier

I think if he never left that would have been the case but now im not so sure

IAmARanger18
12-11-2013, 10:33 AM
I hope it's Jeff Gorton honestly. Sather's time is up.

nyr2002nyr
12-11-2013, 10:46 AM
Then we have the AHL GM Jim Schoenfeld

nyr1980
12-11-2013, 11:46 AM
Sather is done after the season. Gorton steps in.

nyr2002nyr
12-11-2013, 12:59 PM
Sather is done after the season. Gorton steps in.

Ok this was from June

"James Murphy, of ESPN Boston, wrote on his personal website that an NHL source as well as a Rangers team source is telling him that Rangers GM Glen Sather is considering stepping down from that position and letting someone else take over the player personnel decisions.

Murphy says that Sather would retain his role as President of the organization and would appoint either Jim Schoenfeld, Assistant General Manager, Player Personnel, or Doug Risebrough, “Hockey consultant”, to take over as GM.

Murphy says that nothing is certain but that “Sather is seriously considering the decision.”

Murphy then said on his twitter that the next GM would not be Jeff Gorton."

Utd7
12-11-2013, 01:34 PM
Lou Lamoriello. Jk, I think it will be Messier. Messier has been loyal to Dolan and I think he viewed him more as Sather's successor than a head coach hence him not getting the job.

Redfish
12-12-2013, 10:22 AM
By all appearances, it seems Jeff Gorton is being groomed for the role. As a fan, it is difficult to develop an informed opinion on who is best for the position, yet I do like the fact Gorton played an important role with Boston during the years preceding their success; there were some key personnel decisions (e.g., Kessel) that paved the way for Boston's success. I also like the fact Gorton worked closely with Gordie Clarke prior to being promoted to Assistant GM.

Ideally, for me, though, I would love to see John Davidson become our GM. JD is universally liked by Rangers fans; has a passion for the NY Rangers organization; and is an accomplished GM which salvaged a fledgling hockey organization which is now highly competitive in the NHL. My crystal balls sees a few Stanley Cups with John Davidson as our GM.

Can we start a petition somehow? :)

puckhead54
12-12-2013, 11:10 AM
By all appearances, it seems Jeff Gorton is being groomed for the role. As a fan, it is difficult to develop an informed opinion on who is best for the position, yet I do like the fact Gorton played an important role with Boston during the years preceding their success; there were some key personnel decisions (e.g., Kessel) that paved the way for Boston's success. I also like the fact Gorton worked closely with Gordie Clarke prior to being promoted to Assistant GM.

Ideally, for me, though, I would love to see John Davidson become our GM. JD is universally liked by Rangers fans; has a passion for the NY Rangers organization; and is an accomplished GM which salvaged a fledgling hockey organization which is now highly competitive in the NHL. My crystal balls sees a few Stanley Cups with John Davidson as our GM.

Can we start a petition somehow? :)

sign me up

runnermjr1296
12-12-2013, 11:23 AM
sign me up
I"m in

NYSPORTS98
12-12-2013, 03:24 PM
With Dolan in charge it could be Isiah Thomas.

Redfish
12-12-2013, 03:40 PM
Hey, the Flames finally fired Feaster today. There is always hope sound judgement reaches the executive halls of Cablevision.

bsi
12-12-2013, 06:06 PM
While I like some of the things Gorton has done for this team he and Tortorella have had a hand in things this GM has done over the last few years that has made us all question his employment. With that said I think the organization should get a new GM and let him decide if Gorton stays or goes. I think Sathers problem all along was that he strayed from the plan that he had with his youth movement after we lost in the semi finals. Hopefully the new GM would have a solid plan for the direction this team needs to go. But, I really dont see Sather leaving until next year really on his own terms, the gm and owner are too cosy and thats a problem, who knows what sather will do for a short term fix.

Also...someone mentioned Johm Davidson, he would be perfect but we let him go when we shouldnt have and hes head of hockey operations in Columbus I believe.

puckhead54
12-13-2013, 10:32 AM
While I like some of the things Gorton has done for this team he and Tortorella have had a hand in things this GM has done over the last few years that has made us all question his employment. With that said I think the organization should get a new GM and let him decide if Gorton stays or goes. I think Sathers problem all along was that he strayed from the plan that he had with his youth movement after we lost in the semi finals. Hopefully the new GM would have a solid plan for the direction this team needs to go. But, I really dont see Sather leaving until next year really on his own terms, the gm and owner are too cosy and thats a problem, who knows what sather will do for a short term fix.

Also...someone mentioned Johm Davidson, he would be perfect but we let him go when we shouldnt have and hes head of hockey operations in Columbus I believe.
The way Dolan has wasted money over the years why not throw 5MM to 10MM to get JD after all it wont count against the cap so he can pay him anything he wants.

nyr1980
12-13-2013, 12:39 PM
While I like some of the things Gorton has done for this team he and Tortorella have had a hand in things this GM has done over the last few years that has made us all question his employment. With that said I think the organization should get a new GM and let him decide if Gorton stays or goes. I think Sathers problem all along was that he strayed from the plan that he had with his youth movement after we lost in the semi finals. Hopefully the new GM would have a solid plan for the direction this team needs to go. But, I really dont see Sather leaving until next year really on his own terms, the gm and owner are too cosy and thats a problem, who knows what sather will do for a short term fix.

Also...someone mentioned Johm Davidson, he would be perfect but we let him go when we shouldnt have and hes head of hockey operations in Columbus I believe.


I'm not sticking up for Slats by saying this, and I think he should retire. He's in his 70's and is the third oldest GM in the league. But take everything into consideration with Slats. He took over an awful team that Neil Smith had run into the ground. Had little talent on the ice, and less on the farm. The 5 1st round picks prior to him taking over were all busts, and he had no 1st rounder his first year. All of that sets up a 3-5 year rebuild for any team. And unlike most teams who are bad for an extended stretch, Sather has never had a pick in the top 5.

He's made some excellent trades, assembled the core that's been responsible for any success they've had, and gotten this team to the playoffs seven times in eight seasons. His FA signings have not been great. And he's missed on some picks. But the trades he's made, coupled with some low round magic have made up for that.

Again, I felt he should have stepped aside/been let go by now, but you have to look at everything in full context.

Redfish
12-13-2013, 01:14 PM
I'm not sticking up for Slats by saying this, and I think he should retire. He's in his 70's and is the third oldest GM in the league. But take everything into consideration with Slats. He took over an awful team that Neil Smith had run into the ground. Had little talent on the ice, and less on the farm. The 5 1st round picks prior to him taking over were all busts, and he had no 1st rounder his first year. All of that sets up a 3-5 year rebuild for any team. And unlike most teams who are bad for an extended stretch, Sather has never had a pick in the top 5.

He's made some excellent trades, assembled the core that's been responsible for any success they've had, and gotten this team to the playoffs seven times in eight seasons. His FA signings have not been great. And he's missed on some picks. But the trades he's made, coupled with some low round magic have made up for that.

Again, I felt he should have stepped aside/been let go by now, but you have to look at everything in full context.

That is very fair perspective, but seems to understate one aspect of his reign as GM. With the strides he has made for the team under difficult conditions, he also set the team back in several instances that mitigated some of the gains he accomplished. I am referring to the signings of Drury and Gomez, which led to an 18 month dark cloud over the team as it was obvious those players were not performing and we could not get around their contracts; and I would add the premature replacement of Tortorella after a strike-shortened season as another team setback that will take 12-18 months to recover from (while some core guys start aging). Listen, it is no doubt there was some "locker-room" issue but with Dubinsky stating just two days ago the guys on the team were shocked and could not understand why Sather replaced Tortorella, obviously it wasn't a dramatic issue that could not be overcome. Sather should have gathered the coach and core leaders and demanded them to work it out or by game 30 this season, or the coach and certain players would be gone. Sather, ultimately, wanted a different type of hockey played and that is why AV is here; and that is why we are struggling - the system and players are disconnected, and we are in early stages of an 18 month restructuring.

All in all, I cannot, as objectively as possible, give Sather more than a C+ grade during his 14 year reign as Rangers GM. Not bad/not good --- lots of sideways movement, and definitely not sufficient to win a Stanley Cup.

I think he will resign around the trade deadline under better conditions than what presently exists. Dolan will allow him to leave without it appearing to be a firing, or under poor conditions.

nyr1980
12-13-2013, 01:25 PM
That is very fair perspective, but seems to understate one aspect of his reign as GM. With the strides he has made for the team under difficult conditions, he also set the team back in several instances that mitigated some of the gains he accomplished. I am referring to the signings of Drury and Gomez, which led to an 18 month dark cloud over the team as it was obvious those players were not performing and we could not get around their contracts; and I would add the premature replacement of Tortorella after a strike-shortened season as another team setback that will take 12-18 months to recover from (while some core guys start aging). Listen, it is no doubt there was some "locker-room" issue but with Dubinsky stating just two days ago the guys on the team were shocked and could not understand why Sather replaced Tortorella, obviously it wasn't a dramatic issue that could not be overcome. Sather should have gathered the coach and core leaders and demanded them to work it out or by game 30 this season, or the coach and certain players would be gone. Sather, ultimately, wanted a different type of hockey played and that is why AV is here; and that is why we are struggling - the system and players are disconnected, and we are in early stages of an 18 month restructuring.

All in all, I cannot, as objectively as possible, give Sather more than a C+ grade during his 14 year reign as Rangers GM. Not bad/not good --- lots of sideways movement, and definitely not sufficient to win a Stanley Cup.

I think he will resign around the trade deadline under better conditions than what presently exists. Dolan will allow him to leave without it appearing to be a firing, or under poor conditions.

I can agree with that. He's been C+/B- as a GM.

But consider this. What team has won the cup in the last 5 seasons that didn't have a homegrown player on their roster that was a top 5 pick? All of them did. Only team where that argument is weak is with Boston, though they did have Seguin, and had traded Kessel to get.

Really hard to sustain a high-level these days without having a really high pick every so often.

Sandman
12-13-2013, 01:55 PM
With Dolan in charge it could be Isiah Thomas.

This

Sather's time should have been up before the 1st lockout.

Redfish
12-13-2013, 02:02 PM
I can agree with that. He's been C+/B- as a GM.

But consider this. What team has won the cup in the last 5 seasons that didn't have a homegrown player on their roster that was a top 5 pick? All of them did. Only team where that argument is weak is with Boston, though they did have Seguin, and had traded Kessel to get.

Really hard to sustain a high-level these days without having a really high pick every so often.

True; and let's not forget we were one game away from the Stanley Cup. Sather does deserve credit for getting us "close" --- who knows, a healthy Michael Sauer could have provided much needed relief on defense with some snarl that we were missing vs the Devils.

Ok, I can get to B-, but not higher. After 14 years, though, it is time. We've attempted to upgrade players and coaches; time to upgrade in perhaps the most important position.

Sandman
12-13-2013, 02:05 PM
True; and let's not forget we were one game away from the Stanley Cup. Sather does deserve credit for getting us "close" --- who knows, a healthy Michael Sauer could have provided much needed relief on defense with some snarl that we were missing vs the Devils.

Ok, I can get to B-, but not higher. After 14 years, though, it is time. We've attempted to upgrade players and coaches; time to upgrade in perhaps the most important position.

any team with a hot goalie can get close

bsi
12-13-2013, 02:08 PM
Glen Sather had 13 years to get this team to a finals...he hasnt, add to that our minor system is bare, so what has he achieved? He hasnt made the team better and we have a future that looks grim from a prospect aspect. He is the GM in a city that players want to come to and he has consistantly paid top dollar for UFA's, where as teams like Detroit sell the city and the team not the money. His best moments are drafting Lundqvist and trading for McDonagh....other than that not much has gone right for him mostly because he makes reactionary decisions and doesnt have a 5 year plan. Time to move on.

Redfish
12-13-2013, 02:09 PM
any team with a hot goalie can get close

Perhaps. I think it takes more than that though. Holtby and Ottawa goalies were excellent, and their teams fell short, as examples in recent seasons.

nyr2002nyr
12-13-2013, 03:24 PM
True; and let's not forget we were one game away from the Stanley Cup. Sather does deserve credit for getting us "close" --- who knows, a healthy Michael Sauer could have provided much needed relief on defense with some snarl that we were missing vs the Devils.

Ok, I can get to B-, but not higher. After 14 years, though, it is time. We've attempted to upgrade players and coaches; time to upgrade in perhaps the most important position.

One game away from the finals not the cup. He should have been fired after signing Trottier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sandman
12-13-2013, 03:37 PM
Perhaps. I think it takes more than that though. Holtby and Ottawa goalies were excellent, and their teams fell short, as examples in recent seasons.

The Sens were in the cup as recently as 06. They were beat by JS Giguere who had played inconsistently but in front of a much better team than 2003, where he won the conn smythe despite losing the finals (epic hot goalie moment).

They had something good going under Torts that year, but you can tell from the Nash trade Sather built that team by accident.

You can probably blame Dolan ultimately, but still.

bsi
12-13-2013, 04:36 PM
Are we in a better position to win the cup in the future than we were back in 2000? 13 years closer? I think its time for someone with a plan to take over.

NYSPORTS98
12-17-2013, 09:41 AM
John Davidson :clap:

SLY WILLIAMS
12-17-2013, 11:08 AM
Call me crazy but I like knowing Glen is our man when it comes to trades.

I'd be okay with either Gorton or JD when Glen retires.

nyr2002nyr
12-17-2013, 11:24 AM
Call me crazy but I like knowing Glen is our man when it comes to trades.

I'd be okay with either Gorton or JD when Glen retires.

Yeah but ONLY to trades.

Redfish
12-17-2013, 01:14 PM
Call me crazy but I like knowing Glen is our man when it comes to trades.

I'd be okay with either Gorton or JD when Glen retires.

Interesting comment. I've been of this view as well for the most part. Then I was told it was Gorton who insisted on McDonagh being part of the package which came back for Gomez. What other trades has Sather executed?

- Higgins + Kotalik for UFA Okinenn and Prust; in retrospect this was a good trade for the Rangers but Prust really did not blossom until after he learned under Tortorella. Prust has said himself on several occasions it was Tortorella who taught him how to be a pro & develop in several aspects of his game. Credit Prust & Torts / Sather? don't think so. Besides, Higgins has done very well ever since.

- Fedor Tyutin for Nick Zherdev; very poor trade

- Jon Scott for 5th round pick; very insignificant either way except I'd roll the dice w/Gordie Clarke on a 5th round pick any day of the week.

- Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon & 1st round pick for Rick Nash........fair trade in my view

- Gaborik + 2 AHLers for Brassard, Dorsett & J Moore..........I tend to favor this trade if Brassard and Moore are under the development of Tortorella; I have concerns otherwise. Net/net I'd call it "fair value"

- 2013 2nd round + 2013 3rd round picks for Ryan Clowe........well, Vancouver offered more but Clowe chose the Rangers. Clowe helped propel the Rangers into the playoffs but we sure could have used those draft picks. At best this trade = fair value

- Ethan Werak for Oscar Lindberg.......this has the potential to be an excellent trade for NYR. Time will tell

- Rozsival for Wolski........horrible trade. The Rangers are still looking to replace Rozsival, who just won a Stanley Cup as a top 6 dman for the Blackhawks. Roszival's contract exposed him to much criticism but that was Sather's fault, not his. Would have been ideal bottom pair dman for this team.

- Lauri Korpokoski for Enver Lisin......again, poor trade. Korpokoski is another Anisimov. Lisin couldn't hack the NHL.


There are other trades obviously during Sather's tenure but when I reviewed the history, it really made me question my prior view that Sather has done well in the area of trading players. McDonagh tends to overshadow a lot of mistakes and off-loading of valuable draft picks for short-term rentals.

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 01:14 PM
The Sens were in the cup as recently as 06. They were beat by JS Giguere who had played inconsistently but in front of a much better team than 2003, where he won the conn smythe despite losing the finals (epic hot goalie moment).

They had something good going under Torts that year, but you can tell from the Nash trade Sather built that team by accident.

You can probably blame Dolan ultimately, but still.

Real question, not facetious or rhetorical:

How involved is Dolan in personnel? Or do you blame him indirectly for his loyalty toSlats

Sandman
12-17-2013, 01:16 PM
Real question, not facetious or rhetorical:

How involved is Dolan in personnel? Or do you blame him indirectly for his loyalty toSlats

the former, that he's involved in personnel. You don't hear about it as much, but seeing what goes on with the Knicks its hard to imagine it being much different.

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 01:17 PM
Are we in a better position to win the cup in the future than we were back in 2000? 13 years closer? I think its time for someone with a plan to take over.

That is coming I think.

But if you're thinking full rebuild or complete philosophy change, than be prepared for them to be bad for 2-3 seasons. Maybe more.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-17-2013, 02:31 PM
Interesting comment. I've been of this view as well for the most part. Then I was told it was Gorton who insisted on McDonagh being part of the package which came back for Gomez. What other trades has Sather executed?

Its funny how Slats always gets the blame and never the credit from Rangers fans? Who told you that? How would they know? Were they in the private conversations? Even if it was true that just shows me that Slats does what he is suppossed to do by listening to his scouts opinions.

- Higgins + Kotalik for UFA Okinenn and Prust; in retrospect this was a good trade for the Rangers but Prust really did not blossom until after he learned under Tortorella. Prust has said himself on several occasions it was Tortorella who taught him how to be a pro & develop in several aspects of his game. Credit Prust & Torts / Sather? don't think so. Besides, Higgins has done very well ever since.

Red can we really credit Torts for the Prust trade and not Slats? If the trade went bad would you blame Torts instead of Slats? How come Higgins did not play well under Torts here?

- Fedor Tyutin for Nick Zherdev; very poor trade

I agree that this trade was bad but it was not a trade about talent. It became more of a salary dump. We were looking at contracts for Staal and Girardi. Tyutin was also coming off a knee injury.

- Jon Scott for 5th round pick; very insignificant either way except I'd roll the dice w/Gordie Clarke on a 5th round pick any day of the week.

I wish we had Scott right now on some nights.

- Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon & 1st round pick for Rick Nash........fair trade in my view

- Gaborik + 2 AHLers for Brassard, Dorsett & J Moore..........I tend to favor this trade if Brassard and Moore are under the development of Tortorella; I have concerns otherwise. Net/net I'd call it "fair value"

This was a solid trade because at the very worse it gave us a playoff push and future trade flexibility. Another player who had issues with Torts.

- 2013 2nd round + 2013 3rd round picks for Ryan Clowe........well, Vancouver offered more but Clowe chose the Rangers. Clowe helped propel the Rangers into the playoffs but we sure could have used those draft picks. At best this trade = fair value

I understood the price but I said at the time it was a high risk/reward trade. This is one I had my doubts about

- Ethan Werak for Oscar Lindberg.......this has the potential to be an excellent trade for NYR. Time will tell

Many are optimistic about this trade.

- Rozsival for Wolski........horrible trade. The Rangers are still looking to replace Rozsival, who just won a Stanley Cup as a top 6 dman for the Blackhawks. Roszival's contract exposed him to much criticism but that was Sather's fault, not his. Would have been ideal bottom pair dman for this team.

I always liked Rosi but Ranger fans were booing him every single night. His contract was high because he had earned it over previous years. He also had a knee injury to overcome at the time.

- Lauri Korpokoski for Enver Lisin......again, poor trade. Korpokoski is another Anisimov. Lisin couldn't hack the NHL.

Korps demanded a trade because he could not stand Torts. Not much leverage there at that time for Slats.

There are other trades obviously during Sather's tenure but when I reviewed the history, it really made me question my prior view that Sather has done well in the area of trading players. McDonagh tends to overshadow a lot of mistakes and off-loading of valuable draft picks for short-term rentals.

Kristo for Thomas could also turn out well.

Some people would also say trading for Boyle a good move.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-17-2013, 02:32 PM
the former, that he's involved in personnel. You don't hear about it as much, but seeing what goes on with the Knicks its hard to imagine it being much different.

Dolan is a hoops fan so he takes a much more active role. I do not think Dolan takes anywhere near as active a role with the Rangers.

Sandman
12-17-2013, 02:36 PM
Dolan is a hoops fan so he takes a much more active role. I do not think Dolan takes anywhere near as active a role with the Rangers.

Maybe not as active but I would not be surprised if, at times, he was equally obtrusive. It would also explain why they've chased big names over the last decade and a half -- he doesn't know a great deal about hockey and we get stuck with a roster of names that doesn't make a great deal of hockey sense.

I'd say Sather is similar to Isiah.. I'm not sure if I want to give him full responsibility for flops or shortcomings because I'll bet he's following directions with an interest in keeping his job over actually building a world class organization.

Redfish
12-17-2013, 02:58 PM
Interesting comment. I've been of this view as well for the most part. Then I was told it was Gorton who insisted on McDonagh being part of the package which came back for Gomez. What other trades has Sather executed?

Its funny how Slats always gets the blame and never the credit from Rangers fans? Who told you that? How would they know? Were they in the private conversations? Even if it was true that just shows me that Slats does what he is suppossed to do by listening to his scouts opinions.

- Higgins + Kotalik for UFA Okinenn and Prust; in retrospect this was a good trade for the Rangers but Prust really did not blossom until after he learned under Tortorella. Prust has said himself on several occasions it was Tortorella who taught him how to be a pro & develop in several aspects of his game. Credit Prust & Torts / Sather? don't think so. Besides, Higgins has done very well ever since.

Red can we really credit Torts for the Prust trade and not Slats? If the trade went bad would you blame Torts instead of Slats? How come Higgins did not play well under Torts here?

- Fedor Tyutin for Nick Zherdev; very poor trade

I agree that this trade was bad but it was not a trade about talent. It became more of a salary dump. We were looking at contracts for Staal and Girardi. Tyutin was also coming off a knee injury.

- Jon Scott for 5th round pick; very insignificant either way except I'd roll the dice w/Gordie Clarke on a 5th round pick any day of the week.

I wish we had Scott right now on some nights.

- Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon & 1st round pick for Rick Nash........fair trade in my view

- Gaborik + 2 AHLers for Brassard, Dorsett & J Moore..........I tend to favor this trade if Brassard and Moore are under the development of Tortorella; I have concerns otherwise. Net/net I'd call it "fair value"

This was a solid trade because at the very worse it gave us a playoff push and future trade flexibility. Another player who had issues with Torts.

- 2013 2nd round + 2013 3rd round picks for Ryan Clowe........well, Vancouver offered more but Clowe chose the Rangers. Clowe helped propel the Rangers into the playoffs but we sure could have used those draft picks. At best this trade = fair value

I understood the price but I said at the time it was a high risk/reward trade. This is one I had my doubts about

- Ethan Werak for Oscar Lindberg.......this has the potential to be an excellent trade for NYR. Time will tell

Many are optimistic about this trade.

- Rozsival for Wolski........horrible trade. The Rangers are still looking to replace Rozsival, who just won a Stanley Cup as a top 6 dman for the Blackhawks. Roszival's contract exposed him to much criticism but that was Sather's fault, not his. Would have been ideal bottom pair dman for this team.

I always liked Rosi but Ranger fans were booing him every single night. His contract was high because he had earned it over previous years. He also had a knee injury to overcome at the time.

- Lauri Korpokoski for Enver Lisin......again, poor trade. Korpokoski is another Anisimov. Lisin couldn't hack the NHL.

Korps demanded a trade because he could not stand Torts. Not much leverage there at that time for Slats.

There are other trades obviously during Sather's tenure but when I reviewed the history, it really made me question my prior view that Sather has done well in the area of trading players. McDonagh tends to overshadow a lot of mistakes and off-loading of valuable draft picks for short-term rentals.

Kristo for Thomas could also turn out well.

Some people would also say trading for Boyle a good move.

You've highlighted some good points. Will try my best to be clear (cut and paste skills here not the best :) ):

- the main rub, I think, you may have with my comments seems to be McDonagh, and giving Gorton credit for insisting on including him. It was a Montreal reporter who made this claim. I apologize but I cannot locate the link. Putting that aside, let's just say Sather is ultimately responsible as the GM, so great trade here for Sather.

- I think we can credit Prust & Tortorella for how Prust developed. But, I would concede Sather deserves secondary credit here, in that he identified an asset our team needed and which could possibly be developed by our coach. Fair point, to a degree.

- As I recall, Tortorella liked Higgins a lot and gave him ample opportunity. His lack of performance had more to do with personal pressure Higgins placed on himself playing in front of friends & family, as he is a Long Island boy. Higgins subsuquently admitted playing near home made him try to hard and affected his play. While Prust was integral to our best season in recent years, it cannot be overlooked that we never replaced Higgins' value -- he has subsequently gone on to have some good years. Not much accolade or criticism on this trade; some parts worked, some didn't.

- Salary dump or no salary dump; Tyutin for Zherdev was a poor trade; the guy never survived the NHL and was run out of the KHL. Tyutin has had a very nice career; many teams could use him.

- Gaborik trade -- not differing much there; gave us flexibility but can hardly be called much more than a fair trade. We got younger and filled holes and eliminated Gaborik's injury risk (at the cost of losing a proven 40 goal scorer), so I think it was moderately better than fair to be particular.

- I am very hopeful about Lindberg; could be a sleeper that projects higher than the typical 3rd line defensive forward he is usually tagged with. Yet, only time will tell so it's a wash in terms of Sather's trading record.

- Rozy had injury and contract issues, but parlaying him into Wolski, another Sather reclamation project, was poor asset management. We should have done better here. A proven dman for a high risk has been? Ugh.

- Korps may have demanded a trade but Sather had no gun to his head; we could have been more patient with trade offers and gotten better than another reclamation project. I think Korps is a player Torts gave up on too soon, but with Anisimov in the wings he was redundant.

- I like the Boyle trade. Again, he was about to be sent to the minors and is another player that credits Tortorella for developing him into a pro. Save to Torts, again, on this one.

I also did not reference a high number of trades involving draft picks that were willy nilly thrown away.

All in all, after reviewing Sather's trade history, I modified my grade from a B+ to a B-. That's a grade that cannot construct a team toward a Stanley Cup. And, if that same GM is poor at signing free-agents well, then, he isn't worth all that much to a big hockey team like the Rangers. He has survived due to a relationship with Dolan, regrettably.

Here is a link showing the history of NY Rangers trades, if you'd like to review further:

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_team/New_York_Rangers/1

nyr2002nyr
12-17-2013, 03:11 PM
Neil has stated it was very hard to work for Dolan so i wouldnt be shocked what he does

SLY WILLIAMS
12-17-2013, 03:30 PM
That Anson Carter for Jagr trade turned out pretty well.

We always hear about the bad signings but I can think of a bunch that turned out well also.

Straka
Nylander
Rosi (before extension)
Malik
Girardi
Colton Orr
Mats


Every GM will have some mistakes. That is the nature of the business but I read the NYR are only 1 of 2 East teams to make the playoffs 7 times in the last 8 years (Pit being the other)

nyr2002nyr
12-17-2013, 03:46 PM
That Anson Carter for Jagr trade turned out pretty well.

We always hear about the bad signings but I can think of a bunch that turned out well also.

Straka
Nylander
Rosi (before extension)
Malik
Girardi
Colton Orr
Mats


Every GM will have some mistakes. That is the nature of the business but I read the NYR are only 1 of 2 East teams to make the playoffs 7 times in the last 8 years (Pit being the other)

problem is most all the big $$ signing didnt pan out well

SLY WILLIAMS
12-17-2013, 04:03 PM
problem is most all the big $$ signing didnt pan out well

I agree. Problem is many big time UFA are at or past prime by the time they become UFA. I know during the offseason a few posters thought I would nuts to bring up trading Cally and Girardi. They have both been warriors but its UFA time for them and you have to consider mileage and age.

Redfish
12-17-2013, 04:55 PM
That Anson Carter for Jagr trade turned out pretty well.

We always hear about the bad signings but I can think of a bunch that turned out well also.

Straka
Nylander
Rosi (before extension)
Malik
Girardi
Colton Orr
Mats


Every GM will have some mistakes. That is the nature of the business but I read the NYR are only 1 of 2 East teams to make the playoffs 7 times in the last 8 years (Pit being the other)

Jagr for Carter was another excellent trade, partly because the Capitals absorbed half of Jagr's contract; a material factor in retaining cap flexibility for other players.

I get your points Sly; very well taken. I did have him in the "B" category, so still a decent subjective grade. + or - is splitting hairs to some degree and I don't have too many of those to split!!

SLY WILLIAMS
12-17-2013, 06:36 PM
Jagr for Carter was another excellent trade, partly because the Capitals absorbed half of Jagr's contract; a material factor in retaining cap flexibility for other players.

I get your points Sly; very well taken. I did have him in the "B" category, so still a decent subjective grade. + or - is splitting hairs to some degree and I don't have too many of those to split!!

+ or - aside I agree with your B grade. I would not give him an A but I feel good knowing he is on our side while making trades. Most (not all) GMs are smart so most trades are usually pretty fair. There will be the occasional exceptions that turn out to be steals but often those become steals in hindsight. I remember when Vancouver traded Cam Neely (and a 1st round pick) for Barry Pederson most people felt Vancouver won the deal only in hindsight did people see it was Boston that got the great end.

bsi
12-17-2013, 07:04 PM
The bottom line is he has had 13 years to bring a stanley cup here and under other circumatances like as in if he was part of the Phoenix or Atlanta type franchises it could be excused but this team has the full financial support of the Rangers. I just dont know any GM that would have been given that long to make a credible contender.

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 07:33 PM
The bottom line is he has had 13 years to bring a stanley cup here and under other circumatances like as in if he was part of the Phoenix or Atlanta type franchises it could be excused but this team has the full financial support of the Rangers. I just dont know any GM that would have been given that long to make a credible contender.

Now that is probably the crux of any argument regarding Slats. With the time and money he's had, almost anywhere else, he'd have been long gone. I suppose that answers my questions regarding Dolan and his position as an owner. Wants ***** in the seats, and if they win, hey that's a bonus. Though I do believe this idea is much more with the Knicks, and he's absolutely willing to defer heavily to the "hockey guys." Moving forward, they just need to find the right hockey guy.

I've said a few things, many times, regarding him on this site:
1) He took over a terrible team, devoid of talent at all levels.
2) The team was a 3-5 season, complete re-build away from relevance when he took over.
3) He couldn't really engage in that re-build, as he had immediate pressure to make a splash and return them to relevance, and could only do that by adding names via trade and FA's.
4) Consider those points, heavily, when evaluating him.

Again, he's been C+, B- at best And he's 71. Time to go.

Redfish
12-17-2013, 08:28 PM
Coincidentally, Hockey Central Insiders, about 2+ minutes into the broadcast, are suggesting Sather may not finish the season (also stated afterward Sather & Vigneault are not on same page when it comes to trading Del Zotto):

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/hc-insiders-canadas-centres-picked-for-sochi/

nyr1980
12-17-2013, 09:15 PM
Coincidentally, Hockey Central Insiders, about 2+ minutes into the broadcast, are suggesting Sather may not finish the season (also stated afterward Sather & Vigneault are not on same page when it comes to trading Del Zotto):

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/hc-insiders-canadas-centres-picked-for-sochi/

He says AV and MDZ are not on the same page.

Redfish
12-17-2013, 11:51 PM
He says AV and MDZ are not on the same page.

Got it; that makes more sense, thanks.

bsi
12-18-2013, 12:21 AM
Thats too bad...if DelZotto gets to MTL and Markov gets with him he will make him into the player he can be. Was kinda why I wished there was a way Gonchar could have been brought in cheap here to help him out. I dont think Karlsson or Subban get to where they got so quick without those guys helping them along, sometimes there needs to be a good pp guy playing with someone so the player sees the do's and don'ts on running a pp in the NHL.

metswon69
12-18-2013, 04:04 AM
The bottom line is he has had 13 years to bring a stanley cup here and under other circumatances like as in if he was part of the Phoenix or Atlanta type franchises it could be excused but this team has the full financial support of the Rangers. I just dont know any GM that would have been given that long to make a credible contender.

None but that's James Dolan in a nutshell. How many years did it take him to fire Isaiah Thomas and then after all that there is still rumblings to this day that he wants to bring him back in some kind of executive capacity. That's after the debauchery the Knicks were under his time there and the multi million dollar lawsuit he brought on Dolan.

Any chance the Rangers go outside the organization and bring in a guy like Doug Wilson or Dean Lombardi? I know both guys are under contract with the Sharks and Kings and that Gorton seems like the next logical guy but maybe they should bring in a guy who can work in unison with AV's eventual personnel changes. Obviously, Gorton knows their personnel and there's a lot of assuming that a guy like Lombardi or Wilson would work well with AV but I think they should explore the possibility of finding a guy who has more recent experience of putting together quality playoff talent.

nyr1980
12-18-2013, 01:32 PM
None but that's James Dolan in a nutshell. How many years did it take him to fire Isaiah Thomas and then after all that there is still rumblings to this day that he wants to bring him back in some kind of executive capacity. That's after the debauchery the Knicks were under his time there and the multi million dollar lawsuit he brought on Dolan.

Any chance the Rangers go outside the organization and bring in a guy like Doug Wilson or Dean Lombardi? I know both guys are under contract with the Sharks and Kings and that Gorton seems like the next logical guy but maybe they should bring in a guy who can work in unison with AV's eventual personnel changes. Obviously, Gorton knows their personnel and there's a lot of assuming that a guy like Lombardi or Wilson would work well with AV but I think they should explore the possibility of finding a guy who has more recent experience of putting together quality playoff talent.

It's certainly possible. But understand that the two guys you cited aren't going anywhere. Not sure if you were just using them as an example.

Gorton would be a sound choice. Has some experience as a GM with Boston, albeit in an interim capacity, knows the organisation, and is a personnel guy.

I think much of it has to do with where they are as a team/organization when Sather departs, and which direction they're going at that point.

If they're still thinking of trying to make a run with current group and they're just trying to augment it, I think they stay in-house. If it's a re-build, then maybe they look outside for someone who has done that from the bottom.

metswon69
12-19-2013, 01:02 PM
It's certainly possible. But understand that the two guys you cited aren't going anywhere. Not sure if you were just using them as an example.

Gorton would be a sound choice. Has some experience as a GM with Boston, albeit in an interim capacity, knows the organisation, and is a personnel guy.

I think much of it has to do with where they are as a team/organization when Sather departs, and which direction they're going at that point.

If they're still thinking of trying to make a run with current group and they're just trying to augment it, I think they stay in-house. If it's a re-build, then maybe they look outside for someone who has done that from the bottom.

I don't expect it to be but there is an allure to being a successful GM with an original 6 team that plays in a hockey market. I commend what those guys have done in San Jose and LA but let's not mistaken those places for hockey mainstays.

Gorton makes a lot of sense, with his executive experience and knowing their personnel far better than anyone outside the organization could. And you're right the odds they will make certain personnel changes that don't consist of completely overhauling this team but how vast are the changes they make and how does Gorton's philosophy and AV's philosophy match in making such moves?

nyr1980
12-19-2013, 01:45 PM
I don't expect it to be but there is an allure to being a successful GM with an original 6 team that plays in a hockey market. I commend what those guys have done in San Jose and LA but let's not mistaken those places for hockey mainstays.

Gorton makes a lot of sense, with his executive experience and knowing their personnel far better than anyone outside the organization could. And you're right the odds they will make certain personnel changes that don't consist of completely overhauling this team but how vast are the changes they make and how does Gorton's philosophy and AV's philosophy match in making such moves?

Those are the important questions. Right now, while I believe the roster is good and better than they've played, it doesn't fit AV's style enough. Personally, I think in the next 2-3 seasons, they're looking at a total re-build. They've never actually done that.