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xabial
12-09-2013, 10:23 PM
After leavng Denver to sign a five year $15 million contract to be the Raptors new GM, Masai Ujiri wasted no time trading two major players on the Raptors roster to mold the team into his image.

Trade 1:


Raptors Trade: Andrei Bargnani

Raptors Receive: Steve Novak, Marcus Camby, Quentin Richardson, Knicks 2016 first-round pick and second-round picks in 2014 and 2017.

(Marcus Camby was substantively bought out; Quentin Richardson was Waived)


Trade 2:


Raptors Trade: Rudy Gay, Aaron Gray and Quincy Acy.

Rapors Receive: Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and Chuck Hayes.

Raptors now have only $7 million of salary committed next season as opposed to $19.3 million had Rudy Gay picked up his $19.3 million player option next year. (Salmons is only guaranteed $1 million of his $7 million salary next year)

Rudy Gay was very likely to pick up his player option for next year because: 1) he is a ball hog who is shooting under 40%, 2) is only 27, so he can pick up his bloated $19.3 million player option for next season that no one is going to come close to and become a FA by the relatively young age of 28)



Combined with the trade of Andrea Bargnani to the Knicks during the off-season, the Raptors will have cleared more than $20 million off their books for next season, in addition to the Knicks 2016 1st round draft pick and 2nd Round Draft picks in 2014 and 2017 they received.


A for securing draft picks in the Bargnani Trade. (First round draft picks go a long way, especially when it is an inconsistent franchise like the Knicks)

B for clearing $12.3 million dollars in cap space in the Gay Trade, getting cheap, useful young players (Vazquez, Peterson), getting a Trade Chip in Salmons ($7 million non-guaranteed salary next year) and an overpaid but much, much better contract in Chuck Hayes. (6'6 Center who can't shoot free throws and owed roughly $11.7 million over the next two seasons)

He gets a B in the Rudy Gay Trade is because I thought he should have been able to secure at least one draft pick for Rudy Gay. Heck even a 2nd rounder would do wonders for a team that is rebuilding. And Don't give me any "they can always buy 2nd round picks" crap. They probably won't but if they can, it still would've been better to trade for future 2nd round draft picks, because the more draft picks the better for this rebuilding franchise. Don't gave me "2nd round picks will probably never make the team".. The more 2nd rounders you own the more of a chance you will strike gold and find that diamond in the rough, that will really, really help your franchise moving forward.

I thought he could've gotten a least a first round draft pick for Rudy Gay had he waited, but he didn't want to risk an injury, and Gay becoming untradable as the year went on. (Because of his bloated $17.8m salary this year and $19.3 million salary next year)


Total Grade: B+

His grade will continue to change depending on his performance in future drafts, and future trades but for now I give him a B+.

For those of you unfamiliar what letter grades equal to. (I gave him a B+)




A+ Perfect Score or Almost Perfect Score (97 and above)

A (93 to 96 out of 100)

A- (90 to 92 out of 100)

B+ (87 to 89 out of 100)

B (83 to 86 out of 100)

B- (80 to 82 out of 100)

C+ (77 to 79 out of 100)

C (73 to 76 out of 100)

C- (70 to 72 out of 100)

D (65 to 69 out of 100) (Almost Failing)

F (Below 65) (Failing)

RipCity32
12-09-2013, 10:27 PM
Good moves but hopefully he can bring in some good pieces with all that money.

UPRock
12-09-2013, 10:28 PM
And this isn't the end, he's awesome.

sunsfan88
12-09-2013, 10:29 PM
He's ripped off every team he trades with. The Knicks are 5-500 since trading with him. Sacramento is gonna follow suit.

The Nuggets are so dumb for not doing whatever they can to keep him in Denver. Look at Denver now.

Nuggets owner should have let Ujiri ****** his wife if it would have kept him in Denver.

lamar2006
12-09-2013, 10:30 PM
Tanking for Wiggins.

JEDean89
12-09-2013, 10:53 PM
@sunsfan88 i don't really know what you mean look at Denver now, they are 13-8 without 2 starters and they lost Iggy. So no Gallo, Iggy, McGee as major rotation players last year and they are still 6th in the uber competitive West.

That being said, Ujiri is a big reason they are where they are. They have 2 starters coming back as I said, that could take them to the top 4 in the West and they own the Knicks pick for next year, which could end up being a lottery pick and if the knicks are really bad it could be a top 8 pick which means that they could land a potentially allstar talent, wiggings, parker, randle, exum, embiid, smart, gordon, vonleh are all players that would do amazing things on these Nuggs. Ty Lawson was extended on a great contract, they own all our own 1st rounders, they have cap flexibility, no untradeable contracts and are well positioned to make a trade or a FA signing that can take them to the top of the West.

Masai is gonna do similarly wonderful things in Tor. He's the type of GM that believes in buy low and sell high to create assets then cashing those assets in for an upgrade to the starting 5. He knows he has a solid C in Valanciunas but after that he doesn't have the franchise pieces he needs so he is tanking while clearing cap space and getting draft picks. No one was gonna give up a 1st for Gay, not even a late one, it was a miracle he didn't have to give up a pick to get rid of him. I think everyone but Valanciunas can be had for young assets or picks. I bet he wants a PG in the draft this year or of course one of the 8 great players, but I'm sensing a kyle lowry trade for another pick is right around the block.

He's been GM for TOR for only 6 months or so, he has cleared tremendous cap space and moved 2 horrible players and contracts for nothing bad in return. I see this team being on the up after Casey is fired and they hire someone young. I'm pissed the Raps got em but I'm glad for Masai that he's in his dream job, he is truly the guy to put Toronto on the map.

ThaDubs
12-09-2013, 10:57 PM
Jiri is ****ing awesome I guarantee he will make more great moves in the future.

cmellofan15
12-09-2013, 10:59 PM
He's ripped off every team he trades with. The Knicks are 5-500 since trading with him. Sacramento is gonna follow suit.

The Nuggets are so dumb for not doing whatever they can to keep him in Denver. Look at Denver now.

Nuggets owner should have let Ujiri ****** his wife if it would have kept him in Denver.

I'm not sure how the Nuggets are dumb, he left on his own free will and we didn't have much say in the matter. It would be dumb to assume otherwise.

And "look at the Nuggets now"? By this time last year our record was 9-11 and that was with our 2nd best player, Gallinari, still playing. Right now we're 12-8 without Gallo so I don't think anyone's complaining about us losing a step if that's what you're implying, bud.

DillyDill
12-09-2013, 11:09 PM
He's the best hands down...I'm still in shock he was able to get rid of Rudy contract that alone should be an A+++++

2-ONE-5
12-09-2013, 11:11 PM
Hinkie>>>

DallasTrilla23
12-09-2013, 11:11 PM
He butt raped the Knicks twice already, what a G

koreancabbage
12-09-2013, 11:13 PM
I'm not sure how the Nuggets are dumb, he left on his own free will and we didn't have much say in the matter. It would be dumb to assume otherwise.

And "look at the Nuggets now"? By this time last year our record was 9-11 and that was with our 2nd best player, Gallinari, still playing. Right now we're 12-8 without Gallo so I don't think anyone's complaining about us losing a step if that's what you're implying, bud.

no **** - he helped create that team!

PartyPoison15
12-09-2013, 11:16 PM
He's ripped off every team he trades with. The Knicks are 5-500 since trading with him. Sacramento is gonna follow suit.

The Nuggets are so dumb for not doing whatever they can to keep him in Denver. Look at Denver now.

Nuggets owner should have let Ujiri ****** his wife if it would have kept him in Denver.

His dream job was Toronto, it was the only job he was going to leave for. He's a great basketball mind, and a real real class act.

cmellofan15
12-09-2013, 11:23 PM
no **** - he helped create that team!

Yes, that's the job of a general manager. What is your point?

Hellcrooner
12-09-2013, 11:25 PM
he just needs this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzg3eol

Getting Lakers Pick and pau gasol expiring for Lowry, Derozans awufull contract, and amir Johnson.

clears capspace, team becomes even worse so the tank for wiggins, gets a mentor for valanciunas for the next few months.

cmellofan15
12-09-2013, 11:26 PM
His dream job was Toronto, it was the only job he was going to leave for. He's a great basketball mind, and a real real class act.

I, as well as pretty much every other Nuggets fan, agrees. Great guy and a great GM, on top of completely saving our ***** when tanking seemed imminent with the Carmelo situation.

deaner
12-09-2013, 11:30 PM
He said today that the Rudy trade was harder than the melo deal.

I am so glad we changed our front office and picked up:

Tim Leiweke
Masai Ujiri
Jeff Weltman
Bobby Webster
Dan Tolzman

An incredible team of guys to turn this franchise around.

murphturph
12-09-2013, 11:32 PM
Masiah Ujiri

FriedTofuz
12-10-2013, 12:10 AM
he just needs this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzg3eol

Getting Lakers Pick and pau gasol expiring for Lowry, Derozans awufull contract, and amir Johnson.

clears capspace, team becomes even worse so the tank for wiggins, gets a mentor for valanciunas for the next few months.

what awful contract? derozan makes 9 mil a year and is averaging 22/4/3.

BHF
12-10-2013, 12:17 AM
he just needs this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzg3eol

Getting Lakers Pick and pau gasol expiring for Lowry, Derozans awufull contract, and amir Johnson.

clears capspace, team becomes even worse so the tank for wiggins, gets a mentor for valanciunas for the next few months.

Not sure if you are serious?

mightybosstone
12-10-2013, 12:19 AM
he just needs this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzg3eol

Getting Lakers Pick and pau gasol expiring for Lowry, Derozans awufull contract, and amir Johnson.

clears capspace, team becomes even worse so the tank for wiggins, gets a mentor for valanciunas for the next few months.

That's a horrible deal for Toronto unless the Lakers completely tank and luck into a top 5-7 pick. They'd be giving up a very talented young frontcourt player and another expiring contract in Lowry, as well as a decent scoring wing you're not giving any credit to. I've never been a DeRozan fan, but $9 million a season for a 20 PPG guy over the next three years is pretty good value. He's having a career season, and he's finally developed a 3-point shot.

Ujiri can do a hell of a lot better than that deal. A LOT better.

mightybosstone
12-10-2013, 12:23 AM
I love that the OP actually broke down his own grading system like none of us has ever had any level of education before or ever received a grade in our lives. Thanks OP for explaining to me what a "B" is. Otherwise I would just have to revert back to the 20+ years of education I had where I received probably thousands of grades.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 12:26 AM
he just needs this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzg3eol

Getting Lakers Pick and pau gasol expiring for Lowry, Derozans awufull contract, and amir Johnson.

clears capspace, team becomes even worse so the tank for wiggins, gets a mentor for valanciunas for the next few months.

Lol awful?

He's overpaid, but $9 mil a year is like the going rate for 20 PPG in their early 20's, which is what he was at the time he signed the contract.

mjt20mik
12-10-2013, 12:28 AM
he just needs this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzg3eol

Getting Lakers Pick and pau gasol expiring for Lowry, Derozans awufull contract, and amir Johnson.

clears capspace, team becomes even worse so the tank for wiggins, gets a mentor for valanciunas for the next few months.

Terrible deal for the raps

lkingratedr
12-10-2013, 12:35 AM
Can the Knicks borrow him for a month ... Just long enough to move amare trade Felton and get us a pick

TheMightyHumph
12-10-2013, 12:48 AM
Well, he's better than Rod Thorn and Billy King.

Deception
12-10-2013, 12:54 AM
I give him a B, don't get me wrong, it's great to shed those contracts, depending on what he does with them will decide whether he improves his grade or not.

xabial
12-10-2013, 12:55 AM
I love that the OP actually broke down his own grading system like none of us has ever had any level of education before or ever received a grade in our lives. Thanks OP for explaining to me what a "B" is. Otherwise I would just have to revert back to the 20+ years of education I had where I received probably thousands of grades.

You do realize there are people here from other countries other than the U.S., that use different grading systems. These people I posted that explanation with respect to them.

I'm glad you've had 20+ years of education and thousands of grades worth of experience but it isn't all about you.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 01:00 AM
You do realize there are people here from other countries other than the U.S., that use different grading systems. These people I posted that explanation with respect to them.

I'm glad you've had 20+ years of education and thousands of grades worth of experience but it isn't all about you.

We use a different system in Canada. I applaud you for posting that (though I know the grade system there anyways).

bucketss
12-10-2013, 01:12 AM
he just needs this:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kzg3eol

Getting Lakers Pick and pau gasol expiring for Lowry, Derozans awufull contract, and amir Johnson.

clears capspace, team becomes even worse so the tank for wiggins, gets a mentor for valanciunas for the next few months.

wtf no.

CityofTreez
12-10-2013, 01:22 AM
He got crap for Rudy, aside for Vazquez. I'm only saying that because we only had him for a short period. I can't judge him quite yet. But, he's a sureshot backup pg. I guess you can say Rudy was crap on Toronto, but he can be useful in a different role, you never know. Patterson, Salmons are expiring, but Hayes almost died a year or two ago with a heart tremor, and we were the only team to sign him. He's done!

Our GM's (Tor/Sac) are cool, and just helped each other out.

Plus, you shed all those salaries and have ALL this cap room, but will they come?
You have to create a winning atmosphere, so you can attract the talent. I'm just saying, being a Kings fan, it's not easy to attract FA, unless via trade....hint....hint...

I'd give him a C.....you traded Bargnani/Gay for a certain hope in the future.

xabial
12-10-2013, 01:26 AM
We use a different system in Canada. I applaud you for posting that (though I know the grade system there anyways).

Thank you. It took me a while to type up and check for typos too. I myself don't have the grading system completely memorized and I'm a college student living here in the US. I knew a B is an 85 and B+ is an 88 but I wasn't sure of exact number ranges for all the letters.

I thought if I took the time to type up the full conversions for the letter grades for international posters, or anyone unfamiliar how the grading system works here in the U.S., it would make grading Ujiri smoother in this thread, should posters choose to participate. All I got for posting it was attacks from users, who think everything revolves around them.

Hawkeye15
12-10-2013, 01:40 AM
he is an elite GM. He is ahead of the game, like a handful of others, with the analytical evaluation of players, instead of depending on some ex-player's "gut feeling", which has crippled multiple franchises.

Stats will win in the end fellas. Get used to it, or become one of the victims GM's like this rip off..

Shammyguy3
12-10-2013, 01:42 AM
Can't give him any less than a B+. He's been amazing for the Raptors, who will finally start playing efficient basketball hopefully

Sactown
12-10-2013, 01:45 AM
he is an elite GM. He is ahead of the game, like a handful of others, with the analytical evaluation of players, instead of depending on some ex-player's "gut feeling", which has crippled multiple franchises.

Stats will win in the end fellas. Get used to it, or become one of the victims GM's like this rip off..
Eh I think the Rudy Gay trade is a toss up, if Rudy plays well and his efficiency rises with a lower usage rate than it's a win for us, if he continues to suck, Malone will bench him and he'll probably opt out of his contract. If not it's only a year and 2/3. And I doubt the Kings were going to land one of the top FA with the extra salary as well, plus we gave no players with any skill.

Hawkeye15
12-10-2013, 01:51 AM
Eh I think the Rudy Gay trade is a toss up, if Rudy plays well and his efficiency rises with a lower usage rate than it's a win for us, if he continues to suck, Malone will bench him and he'll probably opt out of his contract. If not it's only a year and 2/3. And I doubt the Kings were going to land one of the top FA with the extra salary as well, plus we gave no players with any skill.

Gay is arguably the most overrated contract in the game (Joe Johnson), meaning his production. Toronto was able to peel him away from payroll to truly rebuild, without the albatross deal.

A grade for the Raps on the trade. Gay helps no team. Never really has, and now he gets paid like an all star.

Sactown
12-10-2013, 01:56 AM
Gay is arguably the most overrated contract in the game (Joe Johnson), meaning his production. Toronto was able to peel him away from payroll to truly rebuild, without the albatross deal.

A grade for the Raps on the trade. Gay helps no team. Never really has, and now he gets paid like an all star.

Yes but Toronto cleared a ton of cap space for what? Still need to sign 12 players they cleared cap space but nobody to give the money too.. If they are capable of tanking well enough and getting a bonefied superstar than the trade works, but if they don't ... The trade does nothing and they cleared cap for nothing...

If the team benefits by Addition by subtraction, then they lose positioning in the draft and it hurts them...

If the deal doesn't work for the kings and Rudy Gay does opt out of his contract for a more guaranteed deal.. We are the ones who open up the cap in the long run... Not really a great trade for either team.

sunsfan88
12-10-2013, 01:58 AM
I'm not sure how the Nuggets are dumb, he left on his own free will and we didn't have much say in the matter. It would be dumb to assume otherwise.

And "look at the Nuggets now"? By this time last year our record was 9-11 and that was with our 2nd best player, Gallinari, still playing. Right now we're 12-8 without Gallo so I don't think anyone's complaining about us losing a step if that's what you're implying, bud.
You think Ujiri would have still left if the Nuggets owner didn't force him to fire the coach of the year George Karl?

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 01:58 AM
Yes but Toronto cleared a ton of cap space for what? Still need to sign 12 players they cleared cap space but nobody to give the money too.. If they are capable of tanking well enough and getting a bonefied superstar than the trade works, but if they don't ... The trade does nothing and they cleared cap for nothing...

If the deal doesn't work for the kings and Rudy Gay does opt out of his contract for a more guaranteed deal.. We are the ones who open up the cap in the long run... Not really a great trade for either team.

We are avoiding luxury tax territory now. And having cap space to sign players to improve the team is always better. I'd rather have 2-3 solid players at $19 mil than Rudy Gay depending on the players.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 02:00 AM
Thank you. It took me a while to type up and check for typos too. I myself don't have the grading system completely memorized and I'm a college student living here in the US. I knew a B is an 85 and B+ is an 88 but I wasn't sure of exact number ranges for all the letters.

I thought if I took the time to type up the full conversions for the letter grades for international posters, or anyone unfamiliar how the grading system works here in the U.S., it would make grading Ujiri smoother in this thread, should posters choose to participate. All I got for posting it was attacks from users, who think everything revolves around them.

Shoulda just stuck with the XX/100 to make it easier.

Hawkeye15
12-10-2013, 02:01 AM
Yes but Toronto cleared a ton of cap space for what? Still need to sign 12 players they cleared cap space but nobody to give the money too.. If they are capable of tanking well enough and getting a bonefied superstar than the trade works, but if they don't ... The trade does nothing and they cleared cap for nothing...

If the team benefits by Addition by subtraction, then they lose positioning in the draft and it hurts them...

If the deal doesn't work for the kings and Rudy Gay does opt out of his contract for a more guaranteed deal.. We are the ones who open up the cap in the long run... Not really a great trade for either team.

they cleared space for the opportunity to not be below average if they make the right decisions. Nothing is guaranteed. But Rudy Gay is a waste of money, period. They also dipped under the luxury tax..

They won't lose draft position, they have too much work to do. Which is why they made the GM hire.

So far, my grade is an "A".

TheMightyHumph
12-10-2013, 02:06 AM
they cleared space for the opportunity to not be below average if they make the right decisions. Nothing is guaranteed. But Rudy Gay is a waste of money, period. They also dipped under the luxury tax..

They won't lose draft position, they have too much work to do. Which is why they made the GM hire.

So far, my grade is an "A".

You may very well be correct.

But the story is in the telling and the end result.

Hawkeye15
12-10-2013, 02:07 AM
You may very well be correct.

But the story is in the telling and the end result.

of for sure. And we will all see what happens. I could be completely wrong..

Sactown
12-10-2013, 02:08 AM
they cleared space for the opportunity to not be below average if they make the right decisions. Nothing is guaranteed. But Rudy Gay is a waste of money, period. They also dipped under the luxury tax..

They won't lose draft position, they have too much work to do. Which is why they made the GM hire.

So far, my grade is an "A".
Point is the cap money they saved (12 mill) isn't worth anything yet, if they don't spend it this offseason then the trade did absolutely nothing for them... If they don't get a player this off season worth the 12 mill, they'll either spend it poorly or get 1 year deals.. Either way still a long shot before this trade does anything for them.. You're acting like Rudy Gays contract is for the next 5 years... It could possibly end this off season. Not only that they collected zero talent in return.. In fact every player they added will probably make a negative impact on the court....

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 02:14 AM
Point is the cap money they saved (12 mill) isn't worth anything yet, if they don't spend it this offseason then the trade did absolutely nothing for them... If they don't get a player this off season worth the 12 mill, they'll either spend it poorly or get 1 year deals.. Either way still a long shot before this trade does anything for them.. You're acting like Rudy Gays contract is for the next 5 years... It could possibly end this off season. Not only that they collected zero talent in return.. In fact every player they added will probably make a negative impact on the court....

You can pay a player $12 mil despite them being worth $7 mil and they would be better off if the guy fits the team.

And that is the plan, to add negative impact. They want the highest draft pick possible.

Sactown
12-10-2013, 02:19 AM
You can pay a player $12 mil despite them being worth $7 mil and they would be better off if the guy fits the team.


And that is the plan, to add negative impact. They want the highest draft pick possible.
Exactly my point, if Rudy Gay is as bad for the Raptors as everyone is talking about than the trade could be addition by subtraction making you a better team gaining a worse draft pick.

The other point is you're correct, if you find a player and get a good role player for the money than the trade could be seen as a success, if not, than it is like I said, a trade where nothing really changes.

To give the trade an A currently is just foolish to me, when the results are yet to be in... You might of given up a bad contract that lasts up to the end of the year or possible next year, but you've gained no talent either and if Gay opts out you actually lose salary cap in a bad contract in Chuck Hayes..

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 02:26 AM
Exactly my point, if Rudy Gay is as bad for the Raptors as everyone is talking about than the trade could be addition by subtraction making you a better team gaining a worse draft pick.

The other point is you're correct, if you find a player and get a good role player for the money than the trade could be seen as a success, if not, than it is like I said, a trade where nothing really changes.

To give the trade an A currently is just foolish to me, when the results are yet to be in... You might of given up a bad contract that lasts up to the end of the year or possible next year, but you've gained no talent either and if Gay opts out you actually lose salary cap in a bad contract in Chuck Hayes..

We will probably lose more games now that Rudy is gone and when Lowry is traded. They made it unbearable to watch, but they put enough numbers where they kept us in no man's land.

More than likely will put the money to good use regardless.

We didn't need to gain talent. We needed to find ways to develop the young players. Jonas actually has the opportunity to shoot the ball now and actually develop. Rudy is not the player you want if you are looking to get touches for your young players. That in itself is an automatic win for a rebuilding team.

Sactown
12-10-2013, 02:29 AM
We will probably lose more games now that Rudy is gone and when Lowry is traded. They made it unbearable to watch, but they put enough numbers where they kept us in no man's land.

More than likely will put the money to good use regardless.

We didn't need to gain talent. We needed to find ways to develop the young players. Jonas actually has the opportunity to shoot the ball now and actually develop. Rudy is not the player you want if you are looking to get touches for your young players. That in itself is an automatic win for a rebuilding team.

I don't understand why the coaching staff doesn't just bench him if he was playing the poorly, but I do agree if they are able to develop their young talent than indeed it was a win, still should of looked for a team willing to give up a 2nd rounder. Either way in a year or two, the trade will be looked at as , "expensive junk for less expensive junk "

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 02:34 AM
I don't understand why the coaching staff doesn't just bench him if he was playing the poorly, but I do agree if they are able to develop their young talent than indeed it was a win, still should of looked for a team willing to give up a 2nd rounder. Either way in a year or two, the trade will be looked at as , "expensive junk for less expensive junk "

Increase trade value. No one wants a $19 mil player rotting on the bench.

Sactown
12-10-2013, 02:36 AM
Increase trade value. No one wants a $19 mil player rotting on the bench.

If you bench him he'd opt out of his deal at the end of the season, win win?

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 02:40 AM
That's the complete opposite of what would happen.

He'll opt in, if anything and force a trade. If he gets bench, his production drops, which means he wouldn't get a contract as large as he should. If he was benched due to poor play, he'd get like $5 mil a year in a new contract.

Hawkeye15
12-10-2013, 02:41 AM
Point is the cap money they saved (12 mill) isn't worth anything yet, if they don't spend it this offseason then the trade did absolutely nothing for them... If they don't get a player this off season worth the 12 mill, they'll either spend it poorly or get 1 year deals.. Either way still a long shot before this trade does anything for them.. You're acting like Rudy Gays contract is for the next 5 years... It could possibly end this off season. Not only that they collected zero talent in return.. In fact every player they added will probably make a negative impact on the court....

Why is not spending that additional cap money a loss this offseason, when they are so far from being good?

I respect you as a poster for sure, but you don't understand a rebuild with this short sight posting. Unless you are coming in with a bias Sac agenda.

Toronto won this trade. Easily. And Sac needs to deal with the bloated contract of Rudy Gay until it runs out. If you think he will opt out of $20 million for his last year, you are insane.

xabial
12-10-2013, 02:41 AM
Shoulda just stuck with the XX/100 to make it easier.

Why To appease one Troll? Didn't you say Thank you for giving taking the time to converting each of the 11 letter grades? Now your taking his side? :P

I personally think picking one of 11 Letter Grade Grades, is much easier than thinking of a number out of 100 to give his two trades...

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 02:42 AM
Why To appease one Troll? Didn't you say Thank you for giving taking the time to converting each of the 11 letter grades? Now your taking his side? :P

I think a letter grade is much simpler than "XX/100". With the references I put in my original post, I made it easy to follow and pick one of the 11 letter grades.

I personally think picking one of 11 Letter Grade Grades, is much easier than thinking of a number out of 100 to give his two trades...

Nah, I mean if it was hard for you to remember, shoulda stuck to %'s.

Sactown
12-10-2013, 02:46 AM
Why is not spending that additional cap money a loss this offseason, when they are so far from being good?

I respect you as a poster for sure, but you don't understand a rebuild with this short sight posting. Unless you are coming in with a bias Sac agenda.

Toronto won this trade. Easily. And Sac needs to deal with the bloated contract of Rudy Gay until it runs out. If you think he will opt out of $20 million for his last year, you are insane.
Point being, Rudy Gay wanted out of Toronto, and yes I do think a team would throw a 4 year 50 Mill offer at him and I do think he'd take that over one year and 19 Mill in Toronto. Point being Gay only has 1 to maybe 2 years left on his deal.. They would of had the space the next year if not this up coming season .. Not a huge win in my book. They're rebuilding, but he has yet to acquire any talent..

All I'm saying is it's way to early to give him an A.
Did Sac lose the trade? I wasn't excited when I heard about the deal, but with Malone as a coach, I'm not worried about Gay jacking up a ton of shots. We are already benching one overpaid player, don't think well have a problem benching two.

People are giving him way to much credit for the deals he's conducted this season is all I'm saying.

Raps08-09 Champ
12-10-2013, 02:49 AM
No chance he gets almost $13 mil a year with his current production.

Sactown
12-10-2013, 02:51 AM
Point being, Rudy Gay wanted out of Toronto, and yes I do think a team would throw a 4 year 50 Mill offer at him and I do think he'd take that over one year and 19 Mill in Toronto. Point being Gay only has 1 to maybe 2 years left on his deal.. They would of had the space the next year if not this up coming season .. Not a huge win in my book. They're rebuilding, but he has yet to acquire any talent..

All I'm saying is it's way to early to give him an A.
Did Sac lose the trade? I wasn't excited when I heard about the deal, but with Malone as a coach, I'm not worried about Gay jacking up a ton of shots. We are already benching one overpaid player, don't think well have a problem benching two.

People are giving him way to much credit for the deals he's conducted this season is all I'm saying.

Also, who's to say Gay doesn't become a decently efficient player averaging 13 a game playing good defense for the Kings? Sure he isn't worth 19 mill, but that's still an upgrade.

Trueblue2
12-10-2013, 03:10 AM
I'm not sure how the Nuggets are dumb, he left on his own free will and we didn't have much say in the matter. It would be dumb to assume otherwise.

And "look at the Nuggets now"? By this time last year our record was 9-11 and that was with our 2nd best player, Gallinari, still playing. Right now we're 12-8 without Gallo so I don't think anyone's complaining about us losing a step if that's what you're implying, bud.

They didn't have to let him out of his contract in order to negotiate joining Toronto. It was the sportsmanlike thing to do, but ultimately it was a bad business decision.

beasted86
12-10-2013, 03:31 AM
C+ at best.

Fans should start rating their GMs based off of winning a championship or getting a team back into the playoffs

No way you can logically rate a GM an A when his team wasn't a winning team when he arrived... he made a number of roster signings and trades... and his team still realistically has little shot at the being an above .500 team. The side effect is the team doesn't even have a marquee player, and will likely lose ticket sales. If you rate him an "A" you must be a fan of a losing team with low standards. Not trying to bait, but this is just ridiculous.

mjt20mik
12-10-2013, 04:31 AM
C+ at best.

Fans should start rating their GMs based off of winning a championship or getting a team back into the playoffs

No way you can logically rate a GM an A when his team wasn't a winning team when he arrived... he made a number of roster signings and trades... and his team still realistically has little shot at the being an above .500 team. The side effect is the team doesn't even have a marquee player, and will likely lose ticket sales. If you rate him an "A" you must be a fan of a losing team with low standards. Not trying to bait, but this is just ridiculous.

When a team in top 10 in salary, and is performing poorly, a GM has to make changes to reduce salary cap. I do agree that at the end of it, a GM should be rated on how well he assembles a team and the success of the team. I do think this thread is insanely premature, as Masai is only a couple months into his 5 year contract.

I think we should judge him in a year or two to see if the moves he made results in a positive direction for the team.

I will say this though, he moved 2 very bad contracts and yielded some kind positives from it. Got picks from NYK (which are looking pretty darn good now) and some cap space and decent role players from SAC.

Trueblue2
12-10-2013, 04:45 AM
C+ at best.

Fans should start rating their GMs based off of winning a championship or getting a team back into the playoffs

No way you can logically rate a GM an A when his team wasn't a winning team when he arrived... he made a number of roster signings and trades... and his team still realistically has little shot at the being an above .500 team. The side effect is the team doesn't even have a marquee player, and will likely lose ticket sales. If you rate him an "A" you must be a fan of a losing team with low standards. Not trying to bait, but this is just ridiculous.

You rate gm's based on the on court and financial effects of the moves they make. You have to take into account their goals and what they have to work with. I can see judging solely by team success a few seasons down the line, but he came into a team built by a gm that's pretty much universally considered to be below average at best. Ujiri didn't build Toronto's roster so until hes had time to build the team he sees fit you can really only judge him on the moves he has made as opposed to team accomplishments.

Bargnani for a 1st, 2 2nds, and Novak was a great trade for Toronto. He wasn't doing anything for them, wasn't earning his contract, and it was a miracle they were able to dump his contract, let alone get a first rounder in return. Hes a stretch 4/5 that lost his stroke, played terrible d, and wasn't rebounding. Massai replaced his on court role with Novak, who is a better 3pt shooter and on a cheaper contract.

On court Novak and bargs are a wash, ujiri managed to shed 8m in anual salary and get 2 2nds and a 1st for a marginal upgrade. He won that trade financially and for the future without sacrificing current production.

Toronto's big Gay dump: Gay was incredibly inefficient on the raptors, he wasn't positively effecting the team on the defensive end, and he and derozan both need to dominate the ball for their offensive games to be effective. Patterson and Vazquez are both capable of filling contributing roles in Toronto's rotation this year. Vazquez is a clear upgrade over Augustine, Patterson is decent, fills an area of need, and still is young enough to plausibly show real improvement. They have both of these players bird rights in case they see fit to bring them back. The real on court motive for this trade though was freeing up minutes and touches for younger more efficeint players. Dumping gay was addition by subtraction.

Salmons is only owed 1m next season, Hayes has been disappointing as of late, but at one point showed real promise and its possible he reclaims some of his old potential.

With how gay had been playing he wasnt even close to being worth 17m this year or 19m the next. Gay knows he cant command close to 19m on the open market so as a gm the smart move is assuming he will opt in.

UjirI saved 13m and picked up some b level prospects by dumping a player that wasn't helping his team win. That was clearly a win for toronto as well.

Ujiri is trying to rebuild as quickly and efficiently as possible. He came in and dumped 2 of the nbas worst contracts, got his team out of the luxury tax, acquired marginal upgrades for this season, and acquired draft picks and b prospects for the future. For a rebuilding team that gets an A.

IBleedPurple
12-10-2013, 02:25 PM
And this isn't the end, he's awesome.

This. Top 5 GM in the league easily IMO. Classy by the Nuggets to let him talk to the Raptors since he came from Toronto, but very upset losing him.

CityofTreez
12-10-2013, 05:31 PM
C+ at best.

Fans should start rating their GMs based off of winning a championship or getting a team back into the playoffs

No way you can logically rate a GM an A when his team wasn't a winning team when he arrived... he made a number of roster signings and trades... and his team still realistically has little shot at the being an above .500 team. The side effect is the team doesn't even have a marquee player, and will likely lose ticket sales. If you rate him an "A" you must be a fan of a losing team with low standards. Not trying to bait, but this is just ridiculous.

Yeah, whose to say they attract anyone?
You can't rate these trades because he just traded trash for more trash. Yeah, he's freeing up room for a FA, but look at them right now. Casey could be the dumbest coach in the league, and it's going too be tough to attract FA's with a DeRozen franchise player. And this whole tanking crap is a joke. They could end up with the 5th pick, and nothing to show for it with a roster full of mediocrity.

Sadds The Gr8
12-10-2013, 05:38 PM
Cap isn't just for FA....it's also for trades. Masai can make a trade for a good player on the block like what morey did with harden in Houston. Looking at ujiri's track record of solid trades, I don't see why that wouldn't be possible

BALLER R
12-10-2013, 06:16 PM
C+ at best.

Fans should start rating their GMs based off of winning a championship or getting a team back into the playoffs

No way you can logically rate a GM an A when his team wasn't a winning team when he arrived... he made a number of roster signings and trades... and his team still realistically has little shot at the being an above .500 team. The side effect is the team doesn't even have a marquee player, and will likely lose ticket sales. If you rate him an "A" you must be a fan of a losing team with low standards. Not trying to bait, but this is just ridiculous.

No offense but you know you can't read. It isn't about the overall team that he inherited. The topic was rate his TRADES so far. Not the overall success of the team

scissors
12-10-2013, 06:30 PM
I love that the OP actually broke down his own grading system like none of us has ever had any level of education before or ever received a grade in our lives. Thanks OP for explaining to me what a "B" is. Otherwise I would just have to revert back to the 20+ years of education I had where I received probably thousands of grades.

Not gonna lie. I was laughing out loud at this.

TO to the CHI
12-10-2013, 07:11 PM
I think a lot of this has been covered and at some point it became clear that you are just a Kings fan trying to save face, but nonetheless:


If you bench him he'd opt out of his deal at the end of the season, win win?

No, if you bench him, you cripple his value on the market even more than it already was down and there is no way that he opts out. He is young enough that he will have youth on his side even next year on the market. His issue is a lack of production. No chance that he leaves $19M on the table unless he was playing well enough to be certain that he makes that back and more in the offseason. Being on the bench ends that possibility. Meaning he stays if benched (though, to be fair, he isn't opting out either way).



Point being, Rudy Gay wanted out of Toronto, and yes I do think a team would throw a 4 year 50 Mill offer at him and I do think he'd take that over one year and 19 Mill in Toronto. Point being Gay only has 1 to maybe 2 years left on his deal.. They would of had the space the next year if not this up coming season .. Not a huge win in my book. They're rebuilding, but he has yet to acquire any talent..

All I'm saying is it's way to early to give him an A.
Did Sac lose the trade? I wasn't excited when I heard about the deal, but with Malone as a coach, I'm not worried about Gay jacking up a ton of shots. We are already benching one overpaid player, don't think well have a problem benching two.

People are giving him way to much credit for the deals he's conducted this season is all I'm saying.

No chance that a team gives him 4/50. The Raps had to give him away with apparently no one else interested save for the Kings (check out the article on Grantland, which covers this). That could be an embellishment by other teams, but it really sounds like he had literally zero trade value. Some teams might take a flier on him as a free agent, because of the lower cost, but none are giving him 4/50. Sounds like some wouldn't even touch him at a fraction of that.

As for who won the trade: I am a Raptors fan. So I have a bias here too. But I was elated to read about the deal. Doesn't mean the Raps won the trade, but it should say something about Gay. Vazquez may be a decent backup PG, but ultimately getting rid of Rudy made it worthwhile.



Also, who's to say Gay doesn't become a decently efficient player averaging 13 a game playing good defense for the Kings? Sure he isn't worth 19 mill, but that's still an upgrade.

And you are right that no one can say this for sure. But he has never been efficient. And his efficiency is trending in the wrong direction. Moreover, his defense is not good (not terrible either mind you). So he could do a complete 180, in the same way that Ben Mclemore could be better than Lebron one day, but the smart money says that just isn't happening. He isn't worth 19 million and all available evidence shows that he is a downgrade.

Good news is that you are correct: you will have that cap space back at the latest by next year.

elledaddy
12-10-2013, 07:24 PM
What has his teams won?

shep33
12-10-2013, 07:35 PM
One of the best GM's in the league

beasted86
12-13-2013, 03:52 PM
No offense but you know you can't read. It isn't about the overall team that he inherited. The topic was rate his TRADES so far. Not the overall success of the team
Same difference. His trades aren't going to help the team win right now or in the near future. Your GM just took a team that sucked, and made sure they will suck even more for the next 2 years. Why does he deserve an A for that?


For a rebuilding team that gets an A.

Same thing. His trades didn't make the team better, they actually made them worse. Why should I rate a GM an A for dumping overpaid talent for scrubs and draft picks that they aren't even going to get anytime soon and players he won't be able to re-sign if he wants to preserve the same cap space he just created? For the foreseeable future the Raptors still suck and they don't have any exciting players to draw fans in. They likely won't re-sign Vasquez or Patterson who will be due for a pay raise this summer. He only gets a C+ because I give him credit for acting early rather than living out the rest of the year and risking these players getting injured in between. Otherwise he has been very predictable so deserves a C. He hasn't pulled any tricks out of the bag yet. Salary dumping a guy who was a 20 PPG scorer a year removed for a 1st round pick 3 years from now and two bad players isn't exactly thinking outside the box or getting creative. Salary dumping another 20 PPG scorer for guys you won't resign also isn't creative.

I'm not saying Ujiri has been doing bad moves or anything... what I'm saying is when is the last time your girlfriend rewarded you just for taking out the trash? That's what Ujiri did. He doesn't get an A for taking out the trash, sorry. What he did its a given expectation of rebuilding a bad team with big contracts. I haven't looked at his trades thinking "wow?! I can't believe he got that in return". What he's got is pretty par.

brebre82
12-13-2013, 04:26 PM
Same difference. His trades aren't going to help the team win right now or in the near future. Your GM just took a team that sucked, and made sure they will suck even more for the next 2 years. Why does he deserve an A for that?



Same thing. His trades didn't make the team better, they actually made them worse. Why should I rate a GM an A for dumping overpaid talent for scrubs and draft picks that they aren't even going to get anytime soon and players he won't be able to re-sign if he wants to preserve the same cap space he just created? For the foreseeable future the Raptors still suck and they don't have any exciting players to draw fans in. They likely won't re-sign Vasquez or Patterson who will be due for a pay raise this summer. He only gets a C+ because I give him credit for acting early rather than living out the rest of the year and risking these players getting injured in between. Otherwise he has been very predictable so deserves a C. He hasn't pulled any tricks out of the bag yet. Salary dumping a guy who was a 20 PPG scorer a year removed for a 1st round pick 3 years from now and two bad players isn't exactly thinking outside the box or getting creative. Salary dumping another 20 PPG scorer for guys you won't resign also isn't creative.

I'm not saying Ujiri has been doing bad moves or anything... what I'm saying is when is the last time your girlfriend rewarded you just for taking out the trash? That's what Ujiri did. He doesn't get an A for taking out the trash, sorry. What he did its a given expectation of rebuilding a bad team with big contracts. I haven't looked at his trades thinking "wow?! I can't believe he got that in return". What he's got is pretty par.

Do you have a successful career and found the woman you will spend the rest of your life with? If not, you are exactly like everyone else who hasn't achieved those goals, and do not deserve to be graded. Doesn't matter if you work your *** off at work, or if you are charming as **** with the ladies. Is that a fair statement?

albertajaysfan
12-13-2013, 04:48 PM
With all the talk of cap space being useless I look no further than Utah and their rebuilding efforts.

I foresee something similar happening in Toronto. We take on some ugly expiring contracts to allow a contender to sign a key piece and get some picks out of the deal. A la Utah and Golden State.

Then we would have the talent needed to attract the final pieces to the puzzle. That would be the intelligent way to get around our lack of draw that we currently have while utilizing our cap space.

beasted86
12-13-2013, 05:57 PM
Do you have a successful career and found the woman you will spend the rest of your life with? If not, you are exactly like everyone else who hasn't achieved those goals, and do not deserve to be graded. Doesn't matter if you work your *** off at work, or if you are charming as **** with the ladies. Is that a fair statement?

Your analogy doesn't apply.

FriedTofuz
12-13-2013, 10:23 PM
bot the nets and the knicks dont wanna give up ****.

cmellofan15
12-13-2013, 11:05 PM
Same difference. His trades aren't going to help the team win right now or in the near future. Your GM just took a team that sucked, and made sure they will suck even more for the next 2 years. Why does he deserve an A for that?



Same thing. His trades didn't make the team better, they actually made them worse. Why should I rate a GM an A for dumping overpaid talent for scrubs and draft picks that they aren't even going to get anytime soon and players he won't be able to re-sign if he wants to preserve the same cap space he just created? For the foreseeable future the Raptors still suck and they don't have any exciting players to draw fans in. They likely won't re-sign Vasquez or Patterson who will be due for a pay raise this summer. He only gets a C+ because I give him credit for acting early rather than living out the rest of the year and risking these players getting injured in between. Otherwise he has been very predictable so deserves a C. He hasn't pulled any tricks out of the bag yet. Salary dumping a guy who was a 20 PPG scorer a year removed for a 1st round pick 3 years from now and two bad players isn't exactly thinking outside the box or getting creative. Salary dumping another 20 PPG scorer for guys you won't resign also isn't creative.

I'm not saying Ujiri has been doing bad moves or anything... what I'm saying is when is the last time your girlfriend rewarded you just for taking out the trash? That's what Ujiri did. He doesn't get an A for taking out the trash, sorry. What he did its a given expectation of rebuilding a bad team with big contracts. I haven't looked at his trades thinking "wow?! I can't believe he got that in return". What he's got is pretty par.

How many GMs are actually successful at dumping some of the worst contracts in the league if it's so routine? Better yet how many GMs have removed inefficient, overrated, overpaid players so swiftly in their tenure if it is so routine? I can think of two others off of the top of my head that are pretty highly regarded and they didn't do this their first year on the job.

And how are the raptors at all worse? Do you see what Bargnani is doing now? Did you see what Rudy Gay was doing when he was with them? For you to simply state them as 20ppg guys I'll assume you haven't so I can understand where your rating is coming from.

Knicks21
12-13-2013, 11:39 PM
Who knows? Its too early to tell, if the Raptors are successful in the long run, then yes good trades. But the trades don't mean **** right now unless he can turn it into something useful. He didn't do anything special in Denver. IMO, he is overrated.

beasted86
12-14-2013, 12:41 AM
How many GMs are actually successful at dumping some of the worst contracts in the league if it's so routine? Better yet how many GMs have removed inefficient, overrated, overpaid players so swiftly in their tenure if it is so routine? I can think of two others off of the top of my head that are pretty highly regarded and they didn't do this their first year on the job.

And how are the raptors at all worse? Do you see what Bargnani is doing now? Did you see what Rudy Gay was doing when he was with them? For you to simply state them as 20ppg guys I'll assume you haven't so I can understand where your rating is coming from.

Wait a second... are you actually saying Novak will produce more wins or have a greater positive impact than Bargnani? Are you saying that trading away Rudy Gay whether by addition by subtraction or by Patterson and Salmons being better role players the team will actually win more games and they will surely lock up a playoff spot?

Maybe we are having a lack of communication or you are out of it. These moves are CLEARLY tanking moves decided at PURPOSELY making the team worse in the short term gambling on the team's own draft picks. Nothing at all that he traded for is for the purpose of making the team better immediately.

bucketss
12-14-2013, 02:27 AM
Wait a second... are you actually saying Novak will produce more wins or have a greater positive impact than Bargnani? Are you saying that trading away Rudy Gay whether by addition by subtraction or by Patterson and Salmons being better role players the team will actually win more games and they will surely lock up a playoff spot?

Maybe we are having a lack of communication or you are out of it. These moves are CLEARLY tanking moves decided at PURPOSELY making the team worse in the short term gambling on the team's own draft picks. Nothing at all that he traded for is for the purpose of making the team better immediately.

getting rid of bargnani isn't a tanking move, gay would have picked it up eventually, but bargs is too much of a liability.

scissors
12-14-2013, 02:46 AM
Wait a second... are you actually saying Novak will produce more wins or have a greater positive impact than Bargnani? Are you saying that trading away Rudy Gay whether by addition by subtraction or by Patterson and Salmons being better role players the team will actually win more games and they will surely lock up a playoff spot?

Maybe we are having a lack of communication or you are out of it. These moves are CLEARLY tanking moves decided at PURPOSELY making the team worse in the short term gambling on the team's own draft picks. Nothing at all that he traded for is for the purpose of making the team better immediately.

Well... if your referring to metric stats than the answer to both trades would be yes. Novak had 4 WS last year to bargs' 0.1. Novak's per has 0.1 point higher. Patterson's WS last year were 4.1 (0.1 higher than Gay). And they had pretty much the same PER. I think Patterson logged about half as many minutes as Gay however.

To the eye test it is obvious that Gay is totally worthless so the fact that he got somebody to take on two years/39 million is amazing.

FriedTofuz
12-14-2013, 04:50 AM
I liked patterson when he was in college, do you yall think he could be a stretch four off the bench?

cmellofan15
12-14-2013, 05:02 AM
Wait a second... are you actually saying Novak will produce more wins or have a greater positive impact than Bargnani? Are you saying that trading away Rudy Gay whether by addition by subtraction or by Patterson and Salmons being better role players the team will actually win more games and they will surely lock up a playoff spot?

Maybe we are having a lack of communication or you are out of it. These moves are CLEARLY tanking moves decided at PURPOSELY making the team worse in the short term gambling on the team's own draft picks. Nothing at all that he traded for is for the purpose of making the team better immediately.

Tanking moves yet they are on pace to have pretty much the same record as last year. I never said they would make the playoffs or anything even close to that so let's not pull words out of thin air. Novak has little to no impact on the court as of now but who cares considering they got rid of a player who had a negative impact and are on course to have a similar season without carrying a terrible contract.

And thank you for completely ignoring the first paragraph of questions. But you are right. Nothing he traded for will help them win immediately. But if you think that's what he should be doing then you are 'clearly out of it'. He is putting them in better position for the future, which is quite obvious to everyone except you.