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Chronz
12-05-2013, 01:40 PM
By this I mean, dont focus so much on how they performed, just how hard it was to will their teams to success.

It should go without saying but yes, I know this is a team game and every player is important, but relatively speaking, what are the toughest chips won and why by any great.

DreamShaker
12-05-2013, 02:03 PM
Great question. All the years kinda run together as far as who they faced in all the rounds of the playoffs, so I will have to look that up and get back to you. But great question. I want this thread to get some attention.

LTBaByyy
12-05-2013, 02:25 PM
2011 Mavs

Even as a 3rd seed in the tough west, the Blazers, Lakers, Thunder, and Heat were all picked to win over them

kdspurman
12-05-2013, 02:29 PM
As a Spurs fan, that series against Detroit. Ben Wallace/Sheed was such a brutal frontline defensively to deal with

DreamShaker
12-05-2013, 02:35 PM
A sort of a homer pick to get the ball rolling. Hakeem in 95. People bellyache about MJ just coming back and the Bulls being post-Grant and pre-Rodman, which I get, but that was a uphill battle to win it all that year. First of all, it is always tough to repeat. Second of all, and JB will love this, they were the lower seed in every series they played. They played the Stockton-Malone Jazz in a 5 game series when that was the max in round 1. Then they played Barkley's Suns in round 2, came back from down 3-1, and then beat the Suns in 7 in Phoenix. Hakeem scored over 30 in all of the games after losing the first two (except 29 in the clincher, but close enough), and of course resumed his defensive anchor duties without Thorpe (who he missed big time on that end of the floor). Then they go to SA in the infamous Spurs series and Hakeem has the series of his life against the MVP. He had 3 40 point games, and 39 and 17 with 5 blocks in the clincher. Then they get Shaq and Penny in the Finals, and sweep them. Having to up against Malone, Barkley, Robinson, and Shaq all in consecutive playoff series is crazy difficult, and the spectacular way in which he did it is one of the reasons he is regarded so highly in the All-Time rankings. Dude was just money that year in the playoffs against 4 top 20 All-Time players with stacked teams that were higher seeds. Stuff of legend.

Pierzynski4Prez
12-05-2013, 02:43 PM
A sort of a homer pick to get the ball rolling. Hakeem in 95. People bellyache about MJ just coming back and the Bulls being post-Grant and pre-Rodman, which I get, but that was a uphill battle to win it all that year. First of all, it is always tough to repeat. Second of all, and JB will love this, they were the lower seed in every series they played. They played the Stockton-Malone Jazz in a 5 game series when that was the max in round 1. Then they played Barkley's Suns in round 2, came back from down 3-1, and then beat the Suns in 7 in Phoenix. Hakeem scored over 30 in all of the games after losing the first two (except 29 in the clincher, but close enough), and of course resumed his defensive anchor duties without Thorpe (who he missed big time on that end of the floor). Then they go to SA in the infamous Spurs series and Hakeem has the series of his life against the MVP. He had 3 40 point games, and 39 and 17 with 5 blocks in the clincher. Then they get Shaq and Penny in the Finals, and sweep them. Having to up against Malone, Barkley, Robinson, and Shaq all in consecutive playoff series is crazy difficult, and the spectacular way in which he did it is one of the reasons he is regarded so highly in the All-Time rankings. Dude was just money that year in the playoffs against 4 top 20 All-Time players with stacked teams that were higher seeds. Stuff of legend.

Good point about being the lower seed, but I didn't see 1 mention of the word "Drexler" in your post. You mention losing Thorpe, but forget to mention that he got you Drexler. Not many teams add a 21/7/4 SG with a .613 TS% at the deadline. You did beat some good teams on the way, but you were the defending champs and then added Drexler.

MonroeFAN
12-05-2013, 03:11 PM
The Pistons of 2004 took out a ridiculously tough Indiana team, and man handled the Lakers while being the underdog. Even after we won, fans still thought LAL was the better team. (lol).

jerellh528
12-05-2013, 03:24 PM
I agree with mavs 11, pistons 04 would be a good choice except for the fact it's not what the op was asking for since they played well like a complete team instead of being willed by a particular player

Cal827
12-05-2013, 03:27 PM
I think the Houston Rockets have to be one of them in 1995. I know they won the title the year before but:

They entered the playoffs as the 6th seed:

Eliminated the 3 seed, the 60-22 Jazz, in the first round on the road (3-2)
Eliminated the 2 seed, the 59-23 Suns, in the second round on the road (4-3)
Eliminated the 1 seed, the 62-20 Spurs, in the conference finals 4-2
Winning the Title, by sweeping the 1 seed in the East, the Orlando Magic, who were 57-25

The worst winning percentage of the teams they eliminated was .695! They went 15-7 against these teams, on the way to their second of back-to-back championships.

That's gotta be one of the champions that had faced the most difficulty, but survived.

COOLbeans
12-05-2013, 03:32 PM
Miami 2013 had to battle the Pacers and then had an epic finals series against an aggressive Spurs team.

The Lakers in 2000 when they had to take down Sacramento in the first round in a 5 game series (3-2) and Portland in 7 games in the WCF before battling Reggie in 6 games

DreamShaker
12-05-2013, 03:47 PM
Good point about being the lower seed, but I didn't see 1 mention of the word "Drexler" in your post. You mention losing Thorpe, but forget to mention that he got you Drexler. Not many teams add a 21/7/4 SG with a .613 TS% at the deadline. You did beat some good teams on the way, but you were the defending champs and then added Drexler.

If you look, I was solely refering to the defensive end. Thorpe took pressure off Hakeem on that end, so he had to do even more to compensate. You are absolutely correct about Drexler, though. He was huge in the playoffs that year. But to me, that doesn't take anything away from what Hakeem did.

Lakers + Giants
12-05-2013, 03:53 PM
2004 pistons
2011 mavs

Both heavy underdogs that still ended up winning it all.

nickdymez
12-05-2013, 04:26 PM
Miami 2013 had to battle the Pacers and then had an epic finals series against an aggressive Spurs team.

The Lakers in 2000 when they had to take down Sacramento in the first round in a 5 game series (3-2) and Portland in 7 games in the WCF before battling Reggie in 6 games

The 2013 Miami team? They had a cake walk to the finals. Now the 06 ( I believe it was 06) Miami team, thats another story because I felt that Dallas had that won. One of the greatest finals perfomances ever (Wade).

D-Leethal
12-05-2013, 04:34 PM
2011 Mavs seemed like they were an underdog in every series, and Dirk won with less firepower at his side than many teams haven't ever won with.

D-Leethal
12-05-2013, 04:35 PM
The 2013 Miami team? They had a cake walk to the finals. Now the 06 ( I believe it was 06) Miami team, thats another story because I felt that Dallas had that won. One of the greatest finals perfomances ever (Wade).

If you like FTs. That series marked the downfall that led to the current state of the NBWhistle.

Chronz
12-05-2013, 05:00 PM
As a Spurs fan, that series against Detroit. Ben Wallace/Sheed was such a brutal frontline defensively to deal with

Good choice, Duncan posted the worst offensive numbers of his prime in that Finals. Shaq dominated the same duo albeit in defeat.

Chronz
12-05-2013, 05:02 PM
So at what point does an MJ championship make an appearance?

kdspurman
12-05-2013, 05:10 PM
Good choice, Duncan posted the worst offensive numbers of his prime in that Finals. Shaq dominated the same duo albeit in defeat.

It was downright painful to watch... Horry/Manu came up big in that series. But game 7 Duncan kind of willed them back into it in the 3rd when things weren't looking good.

_KB24_
12-05-2013, 05:26 PM
So at what point does an MJ championship make an appearance?

Which ring would you say was the toughest?

_KB24_
12-05-2013, 05:33 PM
Honestly, its tough to say. What the Mavs did in 2011 was nothing short of amazing. As stated earlier, they were heavy underdogs in each series they faced but came up monumental. The Spurs in 03' went through a hell of a Western Conference but faced the Nets in the Finals.

LakersEaglesLA
12-05-2013, 05:57 PM
This isn't even close The 1988 Lakers.. No team had won back to back in 19 years because of Great Competition. They played 3 Seven Game series against A Great Utah Jazz Stockton and Malone team, A great Dallas Mavs Mark Aguirre led team and A GREAT Piston Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars Bad Boys Defensive Team...

fresh prince
12-05-2013, 07:10 PM
Gotta Love PSD:clap:

Guy starts a thread to judge INDIVIDUAL championship performances and dudes immediately start listing their favorite teams and the year said team won it all.

:cheers:

My top 3.

1. 1980 Magic Johnson as a rookie plays Center and leads the Lakers over Philly despite losing Kareem for the 6th game. His final line: 42 points, 14 of 14 from the free throw line, 15 rebounds, seven assists and three steals.


http://espn.go.com/espn/espn25/story?page=moments/63


As the final seconds tick off the Spectrum clock in Game 6, the Lakers mob Magic, who screams into the TV, "We know you're hurtin', Big Fella, but we want you to get up and do a little dancin' tonight."

2. 1991 Jordan wins his first title in taking down a legendary Lakers team
http://www.nba.com/history/season/19901991.html



The 1991 NBA Finals was billed as a matchup between two larger-than-life superstars, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. But as the series played out, it became obvious that it took a team, not one superlative individual, to win an NBA Championship. Jordan was superb, as his series averages of 31.2 points, 11.4 assists. "I never thought I'd be this emotional," said Jordan, who cried and repeatedly hugged the NBA's Championship trophy. "I've never been this emotional publicly."




3.1988 James Worhty leads the Lakers to back to back titles agaisnt an insanely good Pistons squad puts up a monsterous 36 points, 16 rebounds and 10 assists in game 7 to earn finals MVP.

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19871988.html


Worthy had racked up a monster triple-double: 36 points, 16 rebounds and 10 assists. For that and his earlier efforts in the series, he was named the Finals MVP. Self-effacing as usual, Worthy said he would have voted for Magic.

The league had another repeat champion at last. The Lakers had realized their greatness. They were all relieved. And to make sure Riley had no more wise ideas about the future ( HE HAD GUARANTEED A REPEAT CHAMPIONSHIP), Abdul-Jabbar kept his eye on the coach during the postgame interviews.

Bishnoff
12-05-2013, 07:59 PM
I'd go with Wade in 2006. Had to go up against tough Nets and Pistons teams in the East, and were the underdogs in the Finals against Dirk's Mavs.

3RDASYSTEM
12-12-2013, 05:04 PM
By this I mean, dont focus so much on how they performed, just how hard it was to will their teams to success.

It should go without saying but yes, I know this is a team game and every player is important, but relatively speaking, what are the toughest chips won and why by any great.

Off topic I know but damn your boys CP3 and BRON have a hard on for a guy you cant stand on the hardwood and after I told you he was one of the best ever to do it


He meant everything to me, Paul said. I grew up in North Carolina and I loved Michael Jordan to death, but Allen Iverson had a bigger influence on the game of basketball than anybody. I dont even think it is close.

3RDASYSTEM
12-12-2013, 05:09 PM
Good choice, Duncan posted the worst offensive numbers of his prime in that Finals. Shaq dominated the same duo albeit in defeat.

SHAQ was more individually imposing and more dominant, its a reason he was called modern day WILT or labeled himself the MDE(most dominant ever)

its how I looked at bean and WADE, bean got self checked by the same pistons D that WADE just shredded back to back years in playoffs, and they lucky he bruised his ribs or it would have been a HEAT/SPURS finals go in 05'

ChiSox219
12-12-2013, 05:21 PM
Jordan in 98 and it's probably by a good margin over anything done recently.

gatkins11
12-12-2013, 05:39 PM
If you like FTs. That series marked the downfall that led to the current state of the NBWhistle.

Bingo.

Hawkeye15
12-12-2013, 05:43 PM
how are we measuring this? The Celtics 08' team played more playoff games than any team I can think of. Atlanta was a matchup nightmare for them (had been previously), they had to take out LeBron's Cavs, and then a 59 win Piston team before taking out the Lakers in the finals.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 05:46 PM
The 2011 Mavericks of any finals I've watched. I say that with 100% confidence. That's a miracle run.

mightybosstone
12-12-2013, 05:47 PM
A sort of a homer pick to get the ball rolling. Hakeem in 95. People bellyache about MJ just coming back and the Bulls being post-Grant and pre-Rodman, which I get, but that was a uphill battle to win it all that year. First of all, it is always tough to repeat. Second of all, and JB will love this, they were the lower seed in every series they played. They played the Stockton-Malone Jazz in a 5 game series when that was the max in round 1. Then they played Barkley's Suns in round 2, came back from down 3-1, and then beat the Suns in 7 in Phoenix. Hakeem scored over 30 in all of the games after losing the first two (except 29 in the clincher, but close enough), and of course resumed his defensive anchor duties without Thorpe (who he missed big time on that end of the floor). Then they go to SA in the infamous Spurs series and Hakeem has the series of his life against the MVP. He had 3 40 point games, and 39 and 17 with 5 blocks in the clincher. Then they get Shaq and Penny in the Finals, and sweep them. Having to up against Malone, Barkley, Robinson, and Shaq all in consecutive playoff series is crazy difficult, and the spectacular way in which he did it is one of the reasons he is regarded so highly in the All-Time rankings. Dude was just money that year in the playoffs against 4 top 20 All-Time players with stacked teams that were higher seeds. Stuff of legend.

This. Whenever I think of the toughest path of any champion in NBA history, the first thought I always think of is the 95 Rockets. They had to win every series on the road, and they faced at least one top 25 all-time player in every single round of the postseason. Throw that in with the fact that they had to incorporate Drexler into the team midseason, and I think that was probably the toughest road to a championship a team has ever faced.

Hawkeye15
12-12-2013, 05:51 PM
Jordan in 98 and it's probably by a good margin over anything done recently.

The Bulls first 2 rounds were a joke though

Hawkeye15
12-12-2013, 05:51 PM
This. Whenever I think of the toughest path of any champion in NBA history, the first thought I always think of is the 95 Rockets. They had to win every series on the road, and they faced at least one top 25 all-time player in every single round of the postseason. Throw that in with the fact that they had to incorporate Drexler into the team midseason, and I think that was probably the toughest road to a championship a team has ever faced.

probably the right answer.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:07 PM
Miami 2013 had to battle the Pacers and then had an epic finals series against an aggressive Spurs team.


they also played a bucks team that was six games under .500, and a Bulls team that had no derrick rose or luol deng. their first two rounds were as easy as they come, imo that disqualifies them.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 06:13 PM
probably the right answer.

No way they swept the Magic in the finals. You can't sweep your championship opponent and have the hardest road to the finals ever.

Not to mention Hakeem is a top 10 player ever, Drex is top 50 and they had 3 elite role players in Cassell, Smith, and Horry.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:13 PM
what about the 2010 Lakers? Here's who they played

1) OKC in the first round. OKC won 50 games and were 9th in SRS. thats a quality first round match-up.
2) Utah in round two. Utah won 53 games and were 3rd in SRS. it was a sweep due to match up, not quality.
3) Phoenix in the WCF. PHO won 54 games and were 6th in SRS. First ranked offense in the league.
4) Boston in the finals. Proven champs, had won 50 games, were 10th in SRS, 5th in defensive rating.

not the winner but deserves a mention. every single team they played were top ten in SRS and won at least 50 games. that run also included a finals game seven.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:16 PM
i think i agree that the '95 Rockets are the winners.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 06:17 PM
i think i agree that the '95 Rockets are the winners.

No way see above lol.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:19 PM
No way they swept the Magic in the finals. You can't sweep your championship opponent and have the hardest road to the finals ever.

Not to mention Hakeem is a top 10 player ever, Drex is top 50 and they had 3 elite role players in Cassell, Smith, and Horry.
Hakeem and Drexler were aging though. they were both well into their 30's weren't they?

I get what you're saying about Orlando, but they were a fantastic team. they won 57 games and were 3rd in SRS for the '95 season. game one went to OT and Houston won game three by three points. it was a competitive sweep, if there's such a thing.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:19 PM
No way see above lol.

i agree that Dallas is right there with the '95 rockets.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:22 PM
Dallas is still the only team to defeat the collusion era Heat in the playoffs. that's gotta count for something big here. In hindsight, the Lakers were due to get knocked out in 2011 (nobody has gone to four straight finals since the 80's Celtics), they were on their last legs. Portland was a good first round opponent at 48 wins at 12th in SRS.

But what they did against OKC and the Heat was incredible. they dismantled both of them. Dallas has to be right there with the '95 Rockets.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 06:25 PM
Hakeem and Drexler were aging though. they were both well into their 30's weren't they?

I get what you're saying about Orlando, but they were a fantastic team. they won 57 games and were 3rd in SRS for the '95 season. game one went to OT and Houston won game three by three points. it was a competitive sweep, if there's such a thing.

Yea but a sweep is a sweep.

Hakeem, and Drex were both 32 but both managed to stick with Penny and Shaq.

The Magic were a good team but the fact they didn't win a game really show cases the amturity problems that Penny and Shaq were having at the time.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:27 PM
Yea but a sweep is a sweep.

Hakeem, and Drex were both 32 but both managed to stick with Penny and Shaq.

The Magic were a good team but the fact they didn't win a game really show cases the amturity problems that Penny and Shaq were having at the time.

fair. but that dallas run includes a sweep too. not sure if which round the sweep happens matters here :shrug: you still gotta look at the run in its entirety. although I don't think a sweep disqualifies anyone. good teams can still be swept if the matchup is right and the other team is playing lights out.

ChiSox219
12-12-2013, 06:28 PM
The Bulls first 2 rounds were a joke though

I'm really only thinking about the Finals though. Jordan had to carry a crazy load without the crazy athleticism of his prime and pulled it off with a steal->gamewinner.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 06:28 PM
Dallas is still the only team to defeat the collusion era Heat in the playoffs. that's gotta count for something big here. In hindsight, the Lakers were due to get knocked out in 2011 (nobody has gone to four straight finals since the 80's Celtics), they were on their last legs. Portland was a good first round opponent at 48 wins at 12th in SRS.

But what they did against OKC and the Heat was incredible. they dismantled both of them. Dallas has to be right there with the '95 Rockets.

Even though Lakers weren't themselves that was a team looking for a 3peat who they dominated in the second round.

Also the Mavs won with only one player on the all nba teams.

Rockets had Hakeem, and Drex.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 06:31 PM
Even though Lakers weren't themselves that was a team looking for a 3peat who they dominated in the second round.

Also the Mavs won with only one player on the all nba teams.

Rockets had Hakeem, and Drex.

agreed. they were 3rd in SRS and looked invincible three weeks before the start of the post-season. that team was officially out of gas the second they arrived in denver for round one. Kobe and Pau got old in the post-season and it was visibly noticeable. that team was mentally exhausted and Dallas was light out.

wasn't kidd and all-star the year before the Dallas championship? cool fact but Dallas had lots of talent and experience, all-star nod or not. that team was awesome.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 06:52 PM
agreed. they were 3rd in SRS and looked invincible three weeks before the start of the post-season. that team was officially out of gas the second they arrived in denver for round one. Kobe and Pau got old in the post-season and it was visibly noticeable. that team was mentally exhausted and Dallas was light out.

wasn't kidd and all-star the year before the Dallas championship? cool fact but Dallas had lots of talent and experience, all-star nod or not. that team was awesome.

That team had "the secret" the talent level was significantly lower than numerous previous champions.

Marion, and Kidd were shells of their former selves. JJ Barea, DeShawn Stevenson, and Jason Terry were relied on heavily. Tyson Chandler was the second best player on the squad. That was just great team basketball with a team of hungry veterans.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 07:09 PM
That team had "the secret" the talent level was significantly lower than numerous previous champions.

Marion, and Kidd were shells of their former selves. JJ Barea, DeShawn Stevenson, and Jason Terry were relied on heavily. Tyson Chandler was the second best player on the squad. That was just great team basketball with a team of hungry veterans.

it really was. even though Dallas knocked out the Lakers i was happy to see Dirk get a ring. same reason why i was pulling so hard for the spurs last year. Kobe, Dirk, Duncan- last of a dying breed. one team players who were drafted in the 90's, all in their 30's, stewards who represent the old school grit of the leagues previous generations. Dirk was incredible, Chandler was the perfect low post compliment, Marion could body the other teams best wing and the shooting was just ridiculous. what ur bench did against the Lakers in game four was unlike anything I've ever seen. jim carrey also did a great job on the bench. it's a shame that cuban split the team up but i don't blame him. i'd love it if he bought the Lakers and sold out of dallas. haha.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 07:21 PM
it really was. even though Dallas knocked out the Lakers i was happy to see Dirk get a ring. same reason why i was pulling so hard for the spurs last year. Kobe, Dirk, Duncan- last of a dying breed. one team players who were drafted in the 90's, all in their 30's, stewards who represent the old school grit of the leagues previous generations. Dirk was incredible, Chandler was the perfect low post compliment, Marion could body the other teams best wing and the shooting was just ridiculous. what ur bench did against the Lakers in game four was unlike anything I've ever seen. jim carrey also did a great job on the bench. it's a shame that cuban split the team up but i don't blame him. i'd love it if he bought the Lakers and sold out of dallas. haha.

Lol yea definitely the highest point of my fandom ever. The Heat series to win, the Spurs game 7 semi's in 06 and the Lakers sweep in 2011.

The shooting in the Lakers series is like nothing I've ever seen period. Peja, Dirk, Kidd, Stevenson, Terry, Barea, Brian Cardinal lol. They shot 49 threes in four games on 46% shooting. The Lakers shot 15 threes in four games on 20% shooting. Pau was straight lost and Kobe honestly tried but wasn't capable of carrying them.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 07:28 PM
Lol yea definitely the highest point of my fandom ever. The Heat series to win, the Spurs game 7 semi's in 06 and the Lakers sweep in 2011.

The shooting in the Lakers series is like nothing I've ever seen period. Peja, Dirk, Kidd, Stevenson, Terry, Barea, Brian Cardinal lol. They shot 49 threes in four games on 46% shooting. The Lakers shot 15 threes in four games on 20% shooting. Pau was straight lost and Kobe honestly tried but wasn't capable of carrying them.

dude, the Dallas bench outscored the entire Lakers team in game four. Peja and Terry combined to go 15/16 from the three point line. there was nothing that could have been done man, you can't beat that. there's no way.

Kobe started to show his age and the previous deep runs and olympics had caught up with him a bit. there was nothing he could have done against what Dallas was brining. I think his missed game winner in game one is when the series was won (remember, Dirk school Pau to give Dallas the lead in the final seconds). I think the moment Dallas won game one in LAL, they realized they could accomplish something special. I think mentally, spiritually- thats the moment they became the team that was ready to win the championship. they believed and it just caught fire. if i remember right Kobe went to germany for the first time a month or two after this series.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 07:38 PM
I've spent an obnoxious time thinking about this and I'll throw the 88 Lakers into contention still behind my 2011 Mavs but up there.

This was with an over the hill 40 year old Kareem, the year Worthy won finals MVP.

Swept the Spurs in the first round
Went 7 games against Stockton - Malone Jazz.
Went 7 games against the third best Mavs team ever
Went 7 games against Isaiah Pistons who would win the next 2 championships.

MassoDio
12-12-2013, 08:01 PM
I don't think most people in here understand what is being asked in the OP.

Go back and read it again, and then stop arguing which teams had the hardest path to the the championship.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 08:03 PM
I don't think most people in here understand what is being asked in the OP.

Go back and read it again, and then stop arguing which teams had the hardest path to the the championship.

who they matched up against and how difficult those series against those match ups still matter though. dirk still and to will his team against all odds as did Hakeem against teams with better records, perhaps superior talent and HCA.

MassoDio
12-12-2013, 08:06 PM
who they matched up against and how difficult those series against those match ups still matter though. dirk still and to will his team against all odds as did Hakeem.

I agree with that notion, but that is not what most of the posts in here are talking about. The posts are referring to "Team A in the this year" had the toughest road...look at the teams they faced...yada yada.

Most of them are not referring to an INDIVIDUAL having to WILL THEIR TEAM to a championship. Some posts have mention of that, but most of them don't. Any post involving the 04 Pistons is missing the point of the thread entirely.

Just bringing this up so that the OP can get answers to the question he actually asked.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 08:08 PM
I've spent an obnoxious time thinking about this and I'll throw the 88 Lakers into contention still behind my 2011 Mavs but up there.

This was with an over the hill 40 year old Kareem, the year Worthy won finals MVP.

Swept the Spurs in the first round
Went 7 games against Stockton - Malone Jazz.
Went 7 games against the third best Mavs team ever
Went 7 games against Isaiah Pistons who would win the next 2 championships.

plus, all that championship milage from the years before building up. that was another team that made it deep into june for six of the previous eight seasons.

i still give Magic finals mvp style credit here even though worthy won. worthy put up a couple duds that series and Magics average game score for the series is eight points higher than worthys.

Bruno
12-12-2013, 08:09 PM
I agree with that notion, but that is not what most of the posts in here are talking about. The posts are referring to "Team A in the this year" had the toughest road...look at the teams they faced...yada yada.

Most of them are not referring to an INDIVIDUAL having to WILL THEIR TEAM to a championship. Some posts have mention of that, but most of them don't. Any post involving the 04 Pistons is missing the point of the thread entirely.

Just bringing this up so that the OP can get answers to the question he actually asked.
i got ya.

Ebbs
12-12-2013, 08:17 PM
I don't think most people in here understand what is being asked in the OP.

Go back and read it again, and then stop arguing which teams had the hardest path to the the championship.

I understand. Dallas had Dirk.

How many teams have won a championship with only one all star or one nba all team player?

MassoDio
12-12-2013, 08:20 PM
I understand. Dallas had Dirk.

How many teams have won a championship with only one all star or one nba all team player?

If you understand...and you are answering the actual topic question....then my post wasn't meant for you. :shrug:

Did I quote a post of yours? Nope....

amos1er
12-12-2013, 08:52 PM
I'd go with Wade in 2006. Had to go up against tough Nets and Pistons teams in the East, and were the underdogs in the Finals against Dirk's Mavs.

I would give Bennett Salvatore the MVP for that series. Very difficult for him to make that many bogus calls and still keep his job.

amos1er
12-12-2013, 08:55 PM
2011 Mavs for sure. 1988 Lakers. 1980 Lakers. 1991 Bulls.

mightybosstone
12-12-2013, 10:04 PM
2011 Mavs for sure. 1988 Lakers. 1980 Lakers. 1991 Bulls.

Your sig is so freakishly large and obnoxious that anyone who sees it will remember you said it. I don't know if that's a smart move considering where the Lakers are at right now. And in case anyone else forgets, I can assure you that I won't. ;)

b@llhog24
12-12-2013, 10:05 PM
The Dream.

BRADfromOZ
12-12-2013, 10:36 PM
A sort of a homer pick to get the ball rolling. Hakeem in 95. People bellyache about MJ just coming back and the Bulls being post-Grant and pre-Rodman, which I get, but that was a uphill battle to win it all that year. First of all, it is always tough to repeat. Second of all, and JB will love this, they were the lower seed in every series they played. They played the Stockton-Malone Jazz in a 5 game series when that was the max in round 1. Then they played Barkley's Suns in round 2, came back from down 3-1, and then beat the Suns in 7 in Phoenix. Hakeem scored over 30 in all of the games after losing the first two (except 29 in the clincher, but close enough), and of course resumed his defensive anchor duties without Thorpe (who he missed big time on that end of the floor). Then they go to SA in the infamous Spurs series and Hakeem has the series of his life against the MVP. He had 3 40 point games, and 39 and 17 with 5 blocks in the clincher. Then they get Shaq and Penny in the Finals, and sweep them. Having to up against Malone, Barkley, Robinson, and Shaq all in consecutive playoff series is crazy difficult, and the spectacular way in which he did it is one of the reasons he is regarded so highly in the All-Time rankings. Dude was just money that year in the playoffs against 4 top 20 All-Time players with stacked teams that were higher seeds. Stuff of legend.
+1 (I love it when someone else writes my response)

Redrum187
12-13-2013, 04:45 AM
Lets put it like this... There is only one team to beat the current core of the Miami Heat. That team went on to beat the Blazers (everyone thought they would beat the Mavericks), the Lakers (defending champs), the Thunder (the team everyone thought would play the Lakers to go against the super team Miami Heat), and then the Miami Heat. During the playoffs, Jesus Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit could join any of the teams the Mavericks faced (8 on 5), and Dirk still would have willed his team to win with his phenomenal play. During the Finals, Dirk was sick as well... (LeBron and Wade even made fun of him). In comparison to past Championship team supporting cast, the Mavericks had a relatively weak and poor supporting cast. Jason Terry was the 2nd offensive option, and their 3rd offensive option (Caron Butler) never made played a single playoff game for them. They somehow got hot at the perfect time (lightning in a bottle).

To add to this story, Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry got revenge on Miami Heat for the robbery of the 06' Finals when the referees literally gave Dwyane Wade the MVP and Championship (this doesn't necessarily make it a more challenging victory, but it does add to the overall greatness of the Championship).

Chronz
12-13-2013, 02:38 PM
Lets put it like this... There is only one team to beat the current core of the Miami Heat. That team went on to beat the Blazers (everyone thought they would beat the Mavericks), the Lakers (defending champs), the Thunder (the team everyone thought would play the Lakers to go against the super team Miami Heat), and then the Miami Heat. During the playoffs, Jesus Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit could join any of the teams the Mavericks faced (8 on 5), and Dirk still would have willed his team to win with his phenomenal play. During the Finals, Dirk was sick as well... (LeBron and Wade even made fun of him). In comparison to past Championship team supporting cast, the Mavericks had a relatively weak and poor supporting cast. Jason Terry was the 2nd offensive option, and their 3rd offensive option (Caron Butler) never made played a single playoff game for them. They somehow got hot at the perfect time (lightning in a bottle).

To add to this story, Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry got revenge on Miami Heat for the robbery of the 06' Finals when the referees literally gave Dwyane Wade the MVP and Championship (this doesn't necessarily make it a more challenging victory, but it does add to the overall greatness of the Championship).
That seems to be the trendy choice, tho I feel Dirk played mediocre ball in the Finals, I was honestly going to deride the choice just because thats what I instantly remember from that Finals MVP. He shot 32% (15/46) in 2 of their final 3 wins. I understand theres some level of importance in timely buckets but I dont completely exonerate numerous game long struggles either. Looking at the overall playoff run, hes worth mentioning, still, would you say he played better than MJ/Shaq/Duncan/KG in their title runs?

I somewhat agree with the lightning in a bottle stance but at the same time, I feel like that somewhat cheapens the accomplishment, Id much rather believe that the team was that deep, like a swiss army knife squad that could adapt to any matchup changes in size. When you mention Caron Butler as a positive force for the Mavs, the way we view the game begins to diverge. Butler held the team back IMO, in fact, when he went down I recall posting on another board about how useless hes been and how much better the team would be. I didn't expect a chip but I knew his inefficient offense based on chucking mid range shots alone, would be easily replaced. They could have still won without him but I dont think hes much of a difference maker.

They had a team full of specialist that could exploit weaknesses in other squads and if those teams could exploit that players weakness, they simply gave the PT to someone else who gave the team an advantage. They pretty much dusted off Peja to destroy the Lakers defensive game plan and put him back in the cupboard when they played athletic swings like in Miami/OKC. Tyson and Dirk were a match made in heaven, especially with Kidd at the helm. That was a very special and perfectly built team.

hidalgo
12-13-2013, 11:42 PM
2011 Mavs, 1991 Bulls, 2013 Heat, 1998 Bulls, 2004 pistons

Pablonovi
12-14-2013, 05:54 PM
Hey guys/gals,
Back on July 23, 2013, I started a thread that, while not the exact same question, is similar enough / related enough to be a good source for people to use to help them think about how to answer this thread here. The thread ran between these dates: July 23, 2013 - August 14, 2013.

In that thread, the question was restricted to ONLY the Finals. This thread here is for the entire playoffs. So, I suggest people review the nominees we came up with then (from the Finals only) to see which of these "dragged their teams" thru not just the Finals but the whole playoffs? There are a lot of good candidates all listed in one single place here.

Please forgive the length; but there IS a lot of information. It could very well be that no one who should be in the discussion in this thread is NOT in this list:
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Here's the link:
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?830621-Who-Were-The-Greatest-One-Man-Finals-Series-Wrecking-Crew-Guys
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"Greatest One-Man Finals-Series Wrecking-Crew Guys": NEW DRAFT (Hollinger-Based) LIST

HEY GUYS/GALS: PLEASE SEE: PAGE 5, POSTS: 161, 162, 163, AND 165 thru to 173 FOR IMPORTANT INFO. This new revised OP is basically an exact copy of post 178.

N.B. A lot of the stuff in this post is copied from the OP post. The stuff that is new for this post is almost exclusively presented here in the form of a chart titled, "THE NEXT 20 ARE PROBABLE CANDIDATES"/

Pablonovi:
Who Were The Greatest One-Man Finals-Series Wrecking-Crew Guys

[SNIP]
1 Russel 1965 Celtics (his best Finals year?; more pros/cons please' but Sam Jones his "1b"?)
2 Wilt 1967 76ers (VERY STRONG; more pros/cons please)
3 Greer 196_ 76ers (missing: his best year?; Wilt & other teammates AND vs opponent's best)
4 West 1969 * (VERY STRONG; was fMVP despite being on the Finals-Losers)
5 KAJ 1971 Bucks (VERY STRONG; more pros/cons please)
6 Barry 1975 Warriors (VERY STRONG)
7 ____________
8 ____________
9 ____________
10 ____________

PLEASE MAKE SUGGESTIONS ABOUT THE FIRST 6 AND HELP ADD 4 MORE FOR THE PERIOD 1960-1976.

THE NEXT 20 ARE PROBABLE CANDIDATES (originally from Hollinger's "Top 50 Finals Performers"; but re-arranged to better reflect "One-Man Finals Wrecking-Crew Guys")
a=#1; b=#2; c=#3
DRAFT New Ranking; NAME & Times TEAM YEAR; Times/Yr PER & PER GAP
a 1 Wade, Dwyane 1 Miami 2006 1 33.8 X
a 2 Duncan, Tim 1 San An 2003 1 32.0 X
a 3 Jordan, Michael 1 Chicago 1997 1 29.5 X
a 4 Olajuwon, Hakeem 1 Houston 1994 1 27.1 X
a 5 Johnson, Magic 1 L.A.Laker 1987 1 28.2 X
a 6 Jordan, Michael 2 Chicago 1991 1 31.5 X
a 7 O'Neal, Shaquille 1 L.A.Laker 2000 1 31.1 X
a 8 O'Neal, Shaquille 2 L.A.Laker 2002 1 31.4 X
a 9 O'Neal, Shaquille 3 L.A.Laker 2001 1 29.4 X
a 10 Bryant, Kobe 1 L.A.Laker 2009 1 28.3 X
a 11 Malone, Moses 1 Philadel 1983 1 26.0 X
a 12 Abdul-Jabbar, Kar. 1 L.A.Laker 1985 1 23.8 X
a 13 Bird, Larry 1 Boston 1984 1 23.0 X
a 14 Olajuwon, Hakeem 2 Houston 1995 1 22.2 X
a 15 Dumars, Joe 1 Detroit 1989 1 26.0 X
a 16 Wade, Dwyane 2 Miami 2011 1 30.2 1of2
b 16 Nowitzki, Dirk 1 Dallas 2011 2 20.1 10.1
a 17 Jordan, Michael 3 Chicago 1992 1 29.2 1of2
b 17 Pippen, Scottie 1 Chicago 1992 2 21.5 7.7
a 18 Johnson, Magic 2 L.A.Laker 1988 1 27.5 1of2
b 18 Thomas, Isiah 1 Detroit 1988 2 20.5 7.0
a 19 Jordan, Michael 4 Chicago 1993 1 27.6 1of2
b 19 Barkley, Charles 1 Phoenix 1993 2 22.5 5.1
a 20 Jordan, Michael 5 Chicago 1998 1 30.8 1of2
b 20 Malone, Karl 1 Utah 1998 2 26.8 4.0

B: "LONG-SHOT CANDIDATES"
a 21 Kemp, Shawn 1 OKC(Sea)1996 1 25.8 1of2
b 21 Jordan, Michael 6 Chicago 1996 2 23.1 2.7
a 22 Malone, Moses 2 Houston 1981 1 22.5 1of2
b 22 Maxwell, Cedric 1 Boston 1981 2 20.4 2.1
a 23 Billups, Chauncey 1 Detroit 2005 1 23.7 1of2
b 23 Duncan, Tim 2 San An 2005 2 21.8 1.9
a 24 Bird, Larry 2 Boston 1986 1 22.4 1of2
b 24 Olajuwon, Hakeem 3 Houston 1986 2 21.2 1.2
a 25 Thomas, Isiah 2 Detroit 1990 1 27.1 1of2
b 25 Drexler, Clyde 1 Portland 1990 2 26.0 1.1
a 26 Bryant, Kobe 2 L.A.Laker 2010 1 26.3 1of2
b 26 Gasol, Pau 1 L.A.Laker 2010 2 25.5 0.8
a 27 Parker, Tony 1 San An 2007 1 26.0 1of2
b 27 Duncan, Tim 3 San Ant 2007 2 25.2 0.8
a 28 Walton, Bill 1 Portland 1977 1 23.3 1of2
b 28 Erving, Julius 1 Philadel 1977 2 24.4 -1.1
a 29 Duncan, Tim 4 San An 1999 1 30.7 1of3
b 29 Robinson, David 1 San An 1999 2 26.3 4.4
c 29 Sprewell, Latrell 1 N.Y. Knic 1999 3 23.3 3.0
a 30 Abdul-Jabbar, Kar. 2 L.A.Laker 1980 1 27.3 1of3
b 30 Johnson, Magic 3 L.A.Laker 1980 2 23.3 4.0
c 30 Erving, Julius 2 Philadel 1980 3 21.4 1.9
a 31 Billups, Chauncey 2 Detroit 2004 1 27.1 1of3
b 31 O'Neal, Shaquille 4 L.A.Laker 2004 2 25.7 1.4
c 31 Wallace, Ben 1 Detroit 2004 3 16.5 9.2

C: "HONORABLE-MENTION CANDIDATES (from my/our OP earlier):
[SNIP]
32 Iverson 2000 76errs (for guts+gunning; MOST CONTROVERSIAL)
33 Kidd 2001 Nets (for his team's clear "fMVP")
34 Kidd 2002 Nets (for his team's clear "fMVP")
35 KG 2008 Celtics (for his team's fMVP (slighted?); few comments so far)
36 LeBron 2013 Heat (strong qualifier?; more pros/cons please; ?WAY better than: Duncan, Parker, Wade?)
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[SNIP]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
MY 2 CRITERIA: EITHER:
1) The best player (by a wide margin) on the winning team; OR
2) The best player (by a wide margin) on the losing team AND decidedly better than any player on the winning team.
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P.S. On this, page 5 of this thread, I've given a ton of information, hopefully as a relatively good scientific basis (using Holllinger's expert opinions) upon which each of us can more thoroughly analyze each candidate. IF you have any questions about ANY aspect of any of these pg 5 posts; please don't hesitate to ask.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND: I HAVE NOT RE-WORKED THIS NEW LIST IN ANY WAY - i.e., it does NOT reflect my own personal opinions vis--vis any would-be final OP Rankings. I feel it is better to just present Hollinger's (Adjusted to better reflect our OP) Rankings and let everyone start opinionating from there. From here on in, I will, as well, start giving my own opinions either in response to you-all's posts or in separate posts.

I hope you-all enjoy the f_ck out of the coming discussion; I bet I will too.
Pablo