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View Full Version : Is Valanciunas a bust?



Spanklin
12-04-2013, 08:06 PM
1:3 a:t, one of worst rebounding bigs, 9 points, sub 500 fg% sucks for a big, leading team to losses.

RipCity32
12-04-2013, 08:10 PM
He has talent but plays with Rudy and Demar. I've yet to watch the Raptors play this year but it always seems like Casey doesn't play him when hes playing good or bad. He is a poor rebounder though.

lajoie
12-04-2013, 08:21 PM
He has talent but plays with Rudy and Demar. I've yet to watch the Raptors play this year but it always seems like Casey doesn't play him when hes playing good or bad. He is a poor rebounder though.

Basically this.

FriedTofuz
12-04-2013, 08:21 PM
he grabs nearly 8 rebounds in 27 minutes. I think he'll get at least 10 a game with consistent minutes.

Chronz
12-04-2013, 08:21 PM
Hes struggling right now, on both ends, but he displayed some skill last year that people wont quite forget this quickly.

dalton749
12-04-2013, 08:25 PM
1:3 a:t, one of worst rebounding bigs, 9 points, sub 500 fg% sucks for a big, leading team to losses.

you clearly don't watch them play. this is just an idiotic statement. hes a 21 year old starting center playing with 2 of the top 5 black holes in the league and a coach who is obsessed with small ball and vets and doesn't run any type of offense.
give him time
and rebounding numbers around the same rate as guys like Duncan varajao lee is hardly a bad thing

FriedTofuz
12-04-2013, 08:25 PM
Trade Gay And Valancuinas will give you 13/10 in about 33 minutes,
Demar will give you 24/5/3.

Cal827
12-04-2013, 08:27 PM
If we can rid ourselves of either Derozan or Gay, I think his numbers will go up. He's not getting nearly enough touches, since the other two take like half of our shots lol.

Or a new coach who will focus more on the inside. and Casey wonders how we are not winning without a post game in the ****ing Eastern Conference :pity:

eugene
12-04-2013, 08:28 PM
Poor rebounder? 7'0" Brook Lopez has 5.8 rpg, that's poor rebounder. Don't forget he played alongside Amir Johnson who is a better than average rebounder. But yeah, I have to admit, something happend to him this year. Somehow his stats dropped comparing to last season (rookie). I believe it's Cassey's problem since he doesn't run offence through him and prefers to keep him out of the game all 4th quarter. All NBA analytics are still high on JV...

FriedTofuz
12-04-2013, 08:28 PM
I think Derozan just needs a low post player, and he'll not look like a black hole.

RollingWave
12-04-2013, 08:30 PM
It's been bad so far, but early into a guy's age 21 season 2nd year and a big on a really weird team? hard to draw much conclusion here. his rebounding is actually fairly average rate wise, need to take into account he's playing 27 min per game not 30+ he's not Omer Asik or anything but he's rebounding at roughly the same rate as say.. Spencer Hawes.

It should also be noted that he also got of to a crummy start last year.

My only conclusion so far is that obviously Gay's laser surgery did nothing while Amir's +/- remains down right amazing.

eugene
12-04-2013, 08:31 PM
almost 8rpg in 27min is still decent though... huh..

murphturph
12-04-2013, 08:44 PM
This thread is blasphemy

Cal827
12-04-2013, 08:46 PM
Cannot wait for the Piston trolls to get to this one (although I guess it is retribution for some of us saying that JB would have a better year than Drummond... we forgot we have the worst coach in the league lol :facepalm:)

I see you RipCity lol

dalton749
12-04-2013, 08:58 PM
Drummond will reach his peak before valanciunas because hes relies on his athleticism not skills

jakedajewler
12-04-2013, 09:02 PM
The guy has skills but so far not too much IQ, fouls alot, always has a shocked look on his face like he doesn't know what's going on, or what play is being run which who knows with the raptors that might be the case lol. He is still really young I think he'll be a good one once he figure it out

Hellcrooner
12-04-2013, 09:17 PM
Rudy " dont bring the scorebox to the locker room" Gay.
Demar Derozan
and to a lesser extent Kyle Lowry.

Does he ever sniff the ball aside of the casual offensive rebound?

Spanklin
12-04-2013, 09:54 PM
you clearly don't watch them play. this is just an idiotic statement. hes a 21 year old starting center playing with 2 of the top 5 black holes in the league and a coach who is obsessed with small ball and vets and doesn't run any type of offense.
give him time
and rebounding numbers around the same rate as guys like Duncan varajao lee is hardly a bad thing

Are you serious? Why the felch would I ever watch the Raptors play? Val sucks.

IndyRealist
12-04-2013, 10:00 PM
Can you "lead" a team when you're 5th in total minutes?

SugeKnight
12-04-2013, 10:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uzY76_PTAk
he did that yesterday.

koreancabbage
12-04-2013, 10:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uzY76_PTAk
he did that yesterday.

he needs more touches, more minutes, more passes to him

Eagles4Lyfe
12-04-2013, 10:45 PM
The guy had 8 points and 4 boards or something in the first quarter.

Look at his numbers for the rest of the game. This teams ball movement and player involvement is pure trash and our head coach is the worst in the league.

He makes Mike D'antoni look like Pat Riley

mike_noodles
12-04-2013, 10:46 PM
Bro, do you even watch Raptors ball?

statquo
12-04-2013, 10:56 PM
if he just posted up under the other teams basket, he should be pulling at least 15 boards a game coming off of Rudy's bricks.

Swashcuff
12-04-2013, 11:02 PM
I remember last season when we argued Val vs Drummond now we got a thread asking if Val is a bust while in another people are saying Drummond is a top 3 C.

LAKobeBryant
12-04-2013, 11:03 PM
At this point i don't blame Rudy Gay for Raptors struggle. Coach Casey was just horrible, watching the last 2 games how they lose the lead and out of timeouts they would just chuck a long three when shot clock is down. Team has no defence/no in game coaching changes and he's suppose to be a defensive minded coach.

LanceUpperCut
12-04-2013, 11:05 PM
I remember last season when we argued Val vs Drummond now we got a thread asking if Val is a bust while in another people are saying Drummond is a top 3 C.

Yes, cause we all know how credible PSD threads are.

Swashcuff
12-04-2013, 11:11 PM
Yes, cause we all know how credible PSD threads are.

Not trying to say anything about credibility. I just thought Raptors fans on PSD (because they were the only ones who thought Val was better than Dre) went a bit overboard when speaking of the two. They said Val was a much better prospect going forward because of his more refined offensive game and thought he'd be the better two way player as early as this season.

We have seen glimpses of Val's offensive game no doubt but he's not as quick on the draw as Drummond is. He has PLENTY time however its way to early to call him a bust.

zn23
12-04-2013, 11:32 PM
No, the Raptors are just not giving him a chance to develop. He was a beast in the summer leagues, and I know summer league is completely different, but he showed a high skill set.

The problem is he plays with two ball hogs, Rudy Gay and Demar Derozan. The only time he has a chance to score is when he gets an offensive rebound from one of their bricks.

The raptors as a team are to blame for his lack of development.Until they get rid of Rudy Gay, he will never develop into the player they want.

Gators123
12-04-2013, 11:42 PM
Drummond will reach his peak before valanciunas because hes relies on his athleticism not skills

Cute. Why are you bringing up Drummond?

RipCity32
12-04-2013, 11:42 PM
I like to bash Val because of the Drummond and Val arguments But he is highly skilled big. To say hes a bust is just blind knowledge. Once the Raptors use him as a 1st or 2nd option he is capable of being a 20 and 10 big with his skill set.

FriedTofuz
12-04-2013, 11:46 PM
why does every valancuinas related thread have to bring up drummond, and why does every drummond thread have to bring up valancuinas? #IDontGetIt

JC_
12-05-2013, 12:07 AM
I don't think he's very happy right now. TBH I don't think many of the Raptors are very happy right now. The coach is letting Rudy Gay do his thing which is slowly sucking the life out of the team. Who knows though, maybe they are trying to tank by using Rudy.

Cal827
12-05-2013, 12:30 AM
why does every valancuinas related thread have to bring up drummond, and why does every drummond thread have to bring up valancuinas? #IDontGetIt

The Summer time consisted of 3 things:

1. Comparing Kobe to everyone including God.
2. The Knicks/Nets fighting each other over who wins the Atlantic and can fight Miami (while they both ignore Indiana)

3. Raptors and Piston fans fighting over Drummond/Valanciunas

Chronz
12-05-2013, 12:48 AM
Yes, cause we all know how credible PSD threads are.
How credible is production?

Sadds The Gr8
12-05-2013, 01:26 AM
lol the raps fans fell for the troll

John Walls Era
12-05-2013, 01:41 AM
dont even need to post facts for moronic threads.

Gibby
12-05-2013, 01:49 AM
8 Rebs in 27 mins is not poor. It is a little below expectation but he is not far off. I expected 13 and 10 but 9 and 8 is not horrible. He doesn't get much touches with Rudy and Demar. Casey is horrible with how uses he Jonas. What else is he supposed to do with 8 shots a game and alot of those are offensive put backs. He has good post moves but his positioning is bad, he gets pushed out too much.

COOLbeans
12-05-2013, 02:02 AM
Lol

Sly Guy
12-05-2013, 03:41 AM
he's awesome....the team is in shambles though.

MonroeFAN
12-05-2013, 05:59 AM
Not sure if awesome is the word I would use.

But no he's definitely not a bust, he's a nice young big that should be a double double machine in no time.

Jamiecballer
12-05-2013, 08:10 AM
he's a complete afterthought in our wing dominated offense. i just want this year to be over, rudy to be gone so we can go back to seeing this kid develop. still, he's doing what he can when he actually gets his hands on the ball. definitely not a bust at this point.

phoenix_bladen
12-05-2013, 11:53 AM
we need to get rid of Gay

Demar and him are basically the same player except demar is younger, has more upside, and shoots better percentages.

FriedTofuz
12-05-2013, 12:44 PM
we need to get rid of Gay

Demar and him are basically the same player except demar is younger, has more upside, and shoots better percentages.

I beg to differ, Demar derozan is a much better passer, and is able to get to the free throw line.

ManRam
12-05-2013, 12:48 PM
I don't think so. I mean, he's not exactly in a place when he's set up to thrive. Also, I think he's still got a good amount of untapped upside that he can easily tap into. It perhaps is too early.

And lastly, look at who surrounded him. Guys like Derrick Williams, Jan Vesely, Bismack Biyombo, Brandon Knight, Jimmer and so on. Tristan and Enes haven't exactly been setting the world on fire, though I do think they'll turn out fine. It was a weak draft. Toronto didn't make the wrong pick, so therefore I can't call it a bust.

RollingWave
12-05-2013, 01:01 PM
Yeah, I think Derozan on his own if surrounded by enough shooters is actually ok, there are holes in his game but usually the positive outweighs the negative.

However, with Gay at the 3 it's like the worst possible combination offensively, you have 2 guys who does the exact same thing with the exact same weakness, both can't shoot and need to be spaced by shooters, the Raptors starting 5 have like 2 guys that can shoot a little for their position, (Lowry and Amir) that's about as bad of a spacing as it gets . and while I love both what Jonas and Amir does, they are not guys that can just dominate games like a Drummond or Shaq or anything.

Like, if the Raptors somehow manage to just change Gay into say... Chandler Parsons, I think their starting lineup immediately becomes awesome

C_Mund
12-05-2013, 01:46 PM
1. The Rudy Gay thing, while credible has been beaten to death so I won't bother.

2. Lowry isn't a pick & roll PG. He's a slasher that can kick, but he's more of a scoring threat as a PG. Valanciunas rolls hard but doesn't know where to roll, and even when he IS open off the pick he doesn't get a look. He's getting frustrated, which brings us to......

3. His offensive touches aren't off any plays, they run down the court and give him the ball at 10 ft. out on the first possession of the game. He's going to be a good player, but he's not Duncan or one of the Gasols. We need to run some screens and get him open on the block where he can make a quick move which is where he's most effective with the ball. Once he starts taking 3, 4, 5 dribbles to back his man down we see a lot of steals because he's not good enough to be a one-man wrecking crew. But because of his lack of touches he tries anyway and it just adds to the frustration.

This is a combination of poor chemistry and coaching. Until Ujiri does something with the roster there are no viable answers.

astonmartin10
12-05-2013, 01:53 PM
No Val is going to be good. He gets no touches and no chances with Gay and Derozan on this team. And Casey is a lost cause.

mjt20mik
12-05-2013, 01:55 PM
Piston and Rap fans uniting over their hatred of Gay and Casey. I love it.

But in all honesty, he just needs more touches and plays run for him. They establish him in the first and then just ignore him after. It's quite sad.

JasonJohnHorn
12-05-2013, 02:39 PM
He's averaging a double-double per36 which is more than a lot of bigs, and his sub .500 FG% is because he shoots from further out thant two feet (ala Dwight and Chandler). You can't compare his FG% to chandler and Howard, you need to compare him with Marc Gasol.


His turnovers are bad, but he's 21.


Not a bust yet. Still shows some talent and room for improvement.

Phenomenonsense
12-05-2013, 02:47 PM
Drummond will reach his peak before valanciunas because hes relies on his athleticism not skills

Even when Drummond has a 5 game stretch of 21/19 (per36) and puts up numbers not seen since Shaq (3 consecutive games of 18+ rebounds) Valanciunas is still the better prospect.

dalton749
12-05-2013, 03:32 PM
Even when Drummond has a 5 game stretch of 21/19 (per36) and puts up numbers not seen since Shaq (3 consecutive games of 18+ rebounds) Valanciunas is still the better prospect.

not sure what point ur trying to make by this? i didnt say val was better, just that his game is based on his skills so it takes longer to develop where as drummond can impact the game right away because of his elite athletic ability. calm down

Spanklin
12-05-2013, 05:34 PM
The excuse every Raptors fan is putting up is lame. "He doesn't produce cuz he doesn't get touches and stuff". He's a THIRD YEAR PLAYER. He would get touches if he had earned them but he has not so the team doesn't give him the ball b/c they know he'll just brick it or fumble out of bounds.

Val = black hole/turnover machine

BALLER R
12-05-2013, 05:43 PM
The excuse every Raptors fan is putting up is lame. "He doesn't produce cuz he doesn't get touches and stuff". He's a THIRD YEAR PLAYER. He would get touches if he had earned them but he has not so the team doesn't give him the ball b/c they know he'll just brick it or fumble out of bounds.

Val = black hole/turnover machine

Thought it was his 2nd year, maybe I'm watching the wrong player.

ACanadian
12-05-2013, 06:02 PM
Even when Drummond has a 5 game stretch of 21/19 (per36) and puts up numbers not seen since Shaq (3 consecutive games of 18+ rebounds) Valanciunas is still the better prospect.

You're sig speaks the truth

RipCity32
12-05-2013, 06:10 PM
You're sig speaks the truth

This guy had some of the funniest most uneducated things to say about Drummond last year lol. What kind of funny things do you have for us now?

FriedTofuz
12-05-2013, 06:23 PM
Drummond Is clearly better than Val. Althuogh Drummond has limited offensive game, he's still filling up the stat sheet and contributing defensively and helping his team. Val isnt getting a lot of playing time and usage because of dwyane casey and Rudy gay.

jstone0716
12-05-2013, 06:30 PM
Rudy Gay happened. Skill is still there but they are not letting him develop... it's a real shame as he does have an incredible skill set and superstar upside if they would just let him play.

Cal827
12-05-2013, 07:54 PM
The excuse every Raptors fan is putting up is lame. "He doesn't produce cuz he doesn't get touches and stuff". He's a THIRD YEAR PLAYER. He would get touches if he had earned them but he has not so the team doesn't give him the ball b/c they know he'll just brick it or fumble out of bounds.

Val = black hole/turnover machine

You really don't understand the Rudy Gay effect, do you? lol

Go Look at Rudy's shot attempts, his makes and field goal percentage, and come back here and explain to me how he has earned touches lol

Phenomenonsense
12-05-2013, 08:13 PM
You really don't understand the Rudy Gay effect, do you? lol

Go Look at Rudy's shot attempts, his makes and field goal percentage, and come back here and explain to me how he has earned touches lol

I don't know, I feel like Val is in a similar position with Jennings and Smith shooting like a combined 90 shots per night lol. I think Val needs to work harder on the offensive glass and force himself into the offense a bit more, but I will say I haven't seen more than one raptors game this season.

siix
12-05-2013, 08:27 PM
put j val on any other team other than the raptors he will be averaging 18/10....

Jamiecballer
12-06-2013, 01:05 AM
put j val on any other team other than the raptors he will be averaging 18/10....
c'mon now don't make us all looked stupid please.

Chronz
12-06-2013, 04:00 AM
He's averaging a double-double per36 which is more than a lot of bigs, and his sub .500 FG% is because he shoots from further out thant two feet (ala Dwight and Chandler). You can't compare his FG% to chandler and Howard, you need to compare him with Marc Gasol.


His turnovers are bad, but he's 21.


Not a bust yet. Still shows some talent and room for improvement.
You speak as if his per minute output is even remotely impressive. Its below average and you cant exonerate his offensive inefficiencies by simply saying he shoots further out(Gasol is far more efficient offensively and he opens up the game for his teammates). Val's been overanxious offensively with his pick setting and hes been lost defensively. Hes been a mess. He showed enough promise last year and in glimpses this year to buy him some leeway here, but hes definitely been bad to start the year.

RollingWave
12-06-2013, 05:28 AM
Yeah, even +/- has been unkind to him so far, Amir Johnson continue to do his thing (aka being awesome in +/- despite being on a less than stellar team.) and Lowry / Derozan is decent / solid too, but Jonas has fallen into Rudy territory

Spanklin
12-11-2013, 05:05 PM
Haha the Valanciunus apologists favorite scapegoat Rudy Gay is gone and Valanciunus has gotten even WORSE!

-10, 4 turnovers, still can't rebound, let Duncan have everything he wanted...

What excuses do you have for his five point flop against the Lakers?

BHF
12-11-2013, 05:15 PM
Why is this kid allowed to bait raps fans? First with this dumb thread and now with his last post.

Hawkeye15
12-11-2013, 05:16 PM
he has regressed this year for sure.

RipCity32
12-11-2013, 06:25 PM
Yeah I'm still waiting for him to have some sort of breakout game this year. It seems like he always plays well in the 1st qtr and then just kind of flat lines. He looks like a very energetic hyper kind of guy. Could it be that he plays well in the 1st qtr because of all that energy and not so much skill?. Then he just kinda fades out as the game goes on.

Gibby
12-28-2013, 01:27 AM
He is certainly playing a lot better since the Rudy Gay trade. He is not better than Drummond now but he is progressing. He had a great game tonight with Chandler guarding him.

he is averaging 12.6 PPG, 9.6 REB, and 1.3 BLK on 54% shooting since the trade. I don't think he will ever be the rebounder or the shot blocker that Drummond is but his offensive skill set can make this argument more interesting in the next few years. Raptors are 6-3 in this span. I can see Val turning into a better rebounding version of Brook Lopez.

dalton749
12-28-2013, 02:11 AM
what she said^
he played drummond style tn lol

Raps18-19 Champ
12-28-2013, 02:14 AM
Nah. He started pretty bad compared to what he should've been but mostly because of Rudy Gay. He'll pick it up. His defense is disappointing after hearing about him as a defensive oriented player coming out but his offensive touch has been surprising and it's been better now that he's getting touches.

FriedTofuz
12-28-2013, 02:42 AM
Yeah his D isnt that great at all.. His offensive game hasnt come around yet either but it's getting there

John Walls Era
12-28-2013, 05:03 AM
2 blocks a game during this Gay-less streak. Rebounding well.

Vampirate
12-28-2013, 12:54 PM
Way too early to put the bust label. Let's see where he's at the end of the year, especially without Gay.

BALLER R
12-28-2013, 01:15 PM
He's improved since Rudy left.

Nick O
12-28-2013, 01:27 PM
ill admit i wasnt the biggest fan of the pick when we got him. i wanted Kemba Walker or a good PG mainly but now that we have Lowry (and hopefully will continue to have him) val was a good pick . his defense can be suspect and his hands are pretty bad. BUT hes significantly improved. his game last night was fantastic. hes showing signs of being a great player. im sure his defense will improve and hel be a very good player in the future

Nick O
12-28-2013, 01:28 PM
put j val on any other team other than the raptors he will be averaging 18/10....

no this is stupid.