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View Full Version : Can the heat create a BIG FOUR in 2014 F.a?



Hellcrooner
11-25-2013, 05:14 PM
They would have two ways of acomplishs this.


The Easy way:

their three guys sing back.

A veteran verygood player or former star accepts the mle:

Examples:

J Rich
Pierce
Granger
Kirilenko
Dirk
Pau
Varejao
Okafor......

teh hard way:
Lebron and bosh dont take the max max they could take, Wade takes a SEVERE pay cut openin the money to chase Melo for example.


Can you see it happening?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-25-2013, 05:21 PM
Pau will go to FC Barcelona

Hellcrooner
11-25-2013, 05:24 PM
Pau will go to FC Barcelona

in 2016, most probably.

ManRam
11-25-2013, 05:24 PM
No.

Bringing in Melo would be pointless, too.

naps
11-25-2013, 05:39 PM
They don't need to. If LeBron signs back they will be fine. But you never know what Pat Riley has up his sleeves. The guy is a ****ing genius. I am pretty sure he has already set his blueprint in place for next year and beyond.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 05:51 PM
They would have two ways of acomplishs this.


The Easy way:

their three guys sing back.

A veteran verygood player or former star accepts the mle:

Examples:

J Rich
Pierce
Granger
Kirilenko
Dirk
Pau
Varejao
Okafor......

teh hard way:
Lebron and bosh dont take the max max they could take, Wade takes a SEVERE pay cut openin the money to chase Melo for example.


Can you see it happening?

Hey Crooner,
This is an excellent subject to bring up.
What we know is that, of all the people that understand the historical significance of dynasties for the players, the team and the city, Pat Riley is way up near the top of the list.

He's got LeBron; who ever has LeBron can win Chips with decent pieces (it would have happened with just slightly better pieces in Cleveland, and that LeBron is not THIS LeBron).

I've been thinking more and more about this. LeBron (and the super-friends) promised a lot more than 3 Chips. He/they put that on themselves; and, especially after all that has gone on, especially the flak, he (they) will be fired-up to the max to prove everybody (and who really did think they were NOT exaggerating??) wrong.

LeBron doesn't need the Max. He's made tons, he'll make tons more. He'll get a bunch more Top Individual Rankings (at least Top 3 for years to come). If/when he has (near-)equaled all the other All-Time Greats for individual hard-ware; the ONLY thing that will be lacking to force his way (play his way) into being GOAT #1 will be Chips. And for that he needs help.

Riley knows all this. What's gonna stop him from continuously surrounding LeBron with good-enough pieces to compete at the highest levels? If LeBron doesn't max-out $-wise, then NOTHING!

Miami and the Heat are gonna be the Greatest Dynasty since the Celtics (50 years ago!). Actually better, because there are far more teams, far more quality players, and more playoff rounds.

Like Miami or not, like the Heat or not, like LBJ (and the super-friends) or not ... this is NOT a long-shot by any means.

And LBJ individually? This is his 11th season. He already has 10 Great Seasons. This one is shaping up to be at least equal to his best. I'm betting he hasn't even reached his peak yet (imagine that!). If he gets to 15 Great Seasons with even only one more MVP, and 3 Chips (during these next 5 years), imo, he's GOAT #1. (He'd ~equal KAJ, Magic and MJ for Chips and MVP's, and he'd be ~equal to only KAJ for number of Great Years, and he'd be the All-Time Greatest Team-Mate and All-Time Most-Versatile/Complete Player.

And the two other Super-Friends? Continuing on "LeBron's Team" can only help their legacy. Of course, they're in and will stay in, as long as they can effectively contribute.

With all this within their grasp, Miami, the Heat, Riley, the Super-Friends, and LeBron WILL sign up AND deliver. (How could they walk away from it).

N.B. I'm NOT forgetting about the injury question. LeBron gets seriously injured and, of course, all of this is off, or at least on hold and in serious jeapordy. (spelling?)

P.S. So, to bring this back to the OP (in case this wasn't obvious); I imagine any of most of the big stars in the League would join this team to be a big part of what it can do with their help. Let future historians try to figure out just how pivotal THEY were to the Dynasty. Look as the Celtics All-Star team - everyone of them looks (and is rated, by most, as) even better than they really were because of the DYNASTY.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 06:03 PM
btw, my last post may certainly appear as though I'm a huge LeBron and/or Heat fan. I'm a HUGE Lakers fan (for a full half-century plus); and have been a HUGE Kobe fan for all this career.

My post hopefully simply reflects what I see as transcendent Greatness in LBJ. Even if it "hurts" the Lakers (and Kobe's) long-shot chances for more Chips; I'm excited to see if LeBron and the Heat can pull this greatest-of-NBA-challenges off. And they DO have a serious shot at it.

Lakers + Giants
11-25-2013, 06:06 PM
If all 3 signed they would not be considered a big 3. Not trying to be a douche, but it's more like 1.5 maybe 2 when wade is on his game.

meloman1592
11-25-2013, 06:08 PM
Where would melo fit in that line up? What do you do? Put lebron at the1 ? Lol I don't see it happening

Hellcrooner
11-25-2013, 06:10 PM
Where would melo fit in that line up? What do you do? Put lebron at the1 ? Lol I don't see it happening

Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Bosh or Melo, Lebron.
Small ball its what is about lately.

dodie53
11-25-2013, 06:21 PM
don't need melo,
the heat already have their "anthony".
heh

meloman1592
11-25-2013, 06:29 PM
Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Bosh or Melo, Lebron.
Small ball its what is about lately.

Lol just stop bro

KingPosey
11-25-2013, 06:32 PM
Based on your criteria they already did that with Ray Allen last season, who was and is still better than a lot of those names IMO.

ManRam
11-25-2013, 06:37 PM
Spreading the money it would take to sign Melo on a batch of guys, like Livinston, Marion, the Lakers gang of mediocre players, Thabo, Okafor, etc. would be much wiser. Battier, Chalmers, Allen, Beasley, etc. might all have to be replaced. Just bringing a guy with a redundant skill sit who needs the ball in his hands is pointless. I genuinely think adding Melo would be more disruptive than helpful.

Those guys you listed wouldn't really make it a "Big 4" at all, either.


It's gonna be an interesting off-season. Because if they do all re-up for ~20M a year, they're gonna be A LOT more thin than they probably are right now.

kdspurman
11-25-2013, 07:02 PM
If all 3 signed they would not be considered a big 3. Not trying to be a douche, but it's more like 1.5 maybe 2 when wade is on his game.

I feel like the big 3 talk from them has just been quieter & quieter then when they first got together. I don't think that's doucheish (yea, I know, not a word) of you at all.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 07:09 PM
Personally, I don't think Melo is a good fit for most teams - too much of a ball stopper on offense, too much of a part-time non-quality defender; reminds me of 'Nique.

If he'd agree to be the 6th man; the Heat should sign him up; otherwise, no.
I don't want him on the Lakers for the same reasons; he's just not a good enough TEAM-mate; despite his massive offensive talent.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 07:12 PM
When I saw the "Big 4" in the OP; I immediately thought of:
Magic-KAJ-Worthy-Scott. Two BIGS plus two very-good-quality very-complimentary pieces.
LeBron-some 1B -Bosh-Wade could be that kind of a "Big 4".
And the results would be awesome to watch.

therealwd27
11-25-2013, 07:18 PM
If all 3 signed they would not be considered a big 3. Not trying to be a douche, but it's more like 1.5 maybe 2 when wade is on his game.

Considering the Heat were choosing between Amare,Boozer and Bosh I would say they made out ok. Granted Bosh numbers are down in points and reb, but his FG% has been 50% or very close to it each year with Miami, he is the ideal big next to LeBron because you have to respect his mid range game…Wade is hit or miss, when hes on he shows hes top 10 player but when hes off its bad…When Wade sits out Bosh avg I believe 24 and 8 so he is still a top talent.

That being said Bosh/Wade will take less money and LeBron will take close to max and Riley will fill out the roster. If Beasley can stay out of trouble then he is already a discounted player who can put up points. People knock Bosh but he is essential to Miami's success

Hellcrooner
11-25-2013, 07:28 PM
Spreading the money it would take to sign Melo on a batch of guys, like Livinston, Marion, the Lakers gang of mediocre players, Thabo, Okafor, etc. would be much wiser. Battier, Chalmers, Allen, Beasley, etc. might all have to be replaced. Just bringing a guy with a redundant skill sit who needs the ball in his hands is pointless. I genuinely think adding Melo would be more disruptive than helpful.

Those guys you listed wouldn't really make it a "Big 4" at all, either.


It's gonna be an interesting off-season. Because if they do all re-up for ~20M a year, they're gonna be A LOT more thin than they probably are right now.


What about adding Dirk or Pau?

Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Bosh or Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Pau.

therealwd27
11-25-2013, 07:40 PM
The HEAT will have clear books next year lol other then Cole. So they can work something out. Bosh/Wade will not get the Max and LeBron has already showed he will take less to win. Dont ever doubt Pat Riley lol and Andy Elisburg the HEAT Cap Guru is a genius and will work out salaries that match.

I would be happy if we bring in a good rebounder does not need to be a star but someone like Kris Humphries or Okafor someone who will not need to score just rebound and defend

DillyDill
11-25-2013, 07:46 PM
It would verrrry scary if y'all got mell...we all witnessed what he did in the Olympics on a great team

D-Leethal
11-25-2013, 07:46 PM
Four is too many. That would make them worse. You don't get scorers and ask them to play roles designed for role plays. Overloading on 'top guns' just take away from 'the little things' role players provide that scorers dont and its not a recipe for success.

You can only play 5 guys and you rarely ever need 3 bonafide scorers on the floor at once let alone 4. You do need at least 2 who are gonna focus on D, hustle, 50-50 balls and hitting shots with very low usage. Former stars dont turn into those guys very well.

Tony_Starks
11-25-2013, 07:53 PM
Keeping the big 3 in tact is all that matters. Just like Boston did, keep the core, fill in the pieces and contend for years.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 08:09 PM
Four is too many. That would make them worse. You don't get scorers and ask them to play roles designed for role plays. Overloading on 'top guns' just take away from 'the little things' role players provide that scorers dont and its not a recipe for success.

You can only play 5 guys and you rarely ever need 3 bonafide scorers on the floor at once let alone 4. You do need at least 2 who are gonna focus on D, hustle, 50-50 balls and hitting shots with very low usage. Former stars dont turn into those guys very well.

Hey D-Leethal,
On any team NOT driven by Magic or LeBron you'd be right. But, for example, you bring in Dirk. Then you've got:
#1 LeBron; huge gap: then #2a Dirk, #2b Wade, #2c Bosh. Wade has already shown he is perfectly able to adapt to not being #1; this trend will continue - he'll accept and, with reduced minutes/games still flourish/compliment. Same with Bosh - a perfect complimentary player who, without seeming to need to kill himself puts up reliable numbers while being another near perfect-compliment. And then we come to Dirk.

With LeBron dishing to Dirk, Dirk is gonna GO OFF! He'll have his best year. They won't ask him to do anything but fire away (they'll have everything else sufficiently covered); and boy is he good at that. The team would be indefensible!

They don't have to be (perhaps can't be, as you say) a Big 4 with all being BIG; but they can be 4 Greats making a phenomenal machine. Look what Magic did when surrounded by talented specialists. IF the Lakers "Big 4" had gotten Payton to buy in just a little more to be more fully complimentary; and Malone doesn't get injured; that was working and could've have been a monster. So can LeBron-Bosh-Wade+ one more super-specialist.

Beyond those four, Riley fills the roster with low-priced specialists and/or energy guys (continuing on with how he's been piecing-things together; or like the Lakers did this summer).

I'd put them as odds-on to beat the 72-10 record; it'd be theirs for the taking IF they wanted it enough.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 08:12 PM
Add such a super-specialist, who comes in on the cheap for this once-in-a-lifetime chance; and LeBron goes "Magic" or Big O - triple-doubling his way to more MVP(s).

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 08:15 PM
It might not seem fair to the rest of the teams and their fans (much like the Celtics' All-Star team was, in their day); but it'd be hard not to watch every minute!

A once-in-a-lifetime player, masterminding a once-in-a-lifetime TEAM.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 08:17 PM
What about adding Dirk or Pau?

Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Bosh or Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Pau.

Hey Hellcrooner,
I'm not saying that Dirk's (way) better than Pau; but I don't think Pau works with them (though yes as a 6th man) because he'd be too similar to Bosh. Dirk however would be as close to perfect with those guys as anybody in the League!

Devster3
11-25-2013, 08:29 PM
Hey Hellcrooner,
I'm not saying that Dirk's (way) better than Pau; but I don't think Pau works with them (though yes as a 6th man) because he'd be too similar to Bosh. Dirk however would be as close to perfect with those guys as anybody in the League!

That's a lot of posts, Pablonovi. But I love the energy.

Now ideally, If I were in Lebrons shoes you have to understand you can make more money being the GOAT then you will from taking the max for a couple years. Jordan being the GOAT has proved that he still makes money etc.

If I were Lebron I would take the massive pay cut, and the idea of going Big O would be amazing.

The question are:
Will the big 3 now all opt out and take a pay cut?

Which star wants to join them and not compete against them?



Dirk would really be a nice piece next to Lebron. But we all know if Durant was on the same team as Lebron, that Big 2 would wreck anyone. So getting Durant should be the priority when he is available.
....Also giving Westbrook freedom to be the #1 which I would love to see for entertainment purposes.

jmartin80
11-25-2013, 08:55 PM
Man, I hope so! That would be GREAT for the NBA!

JasonJohnHorn
11-25-2013, 08:57 PM
Um... what about Chalmbers? They already HAVE a big four!

TheNumber37
11-25-2013, 09:18 PM
They'd need a 6th man. A true 6th man. Someone who can shoot and is a versatile scorer.

Jamal Crafword
Vince Carter
I feared Gary Neal would go here
Nate Robinson
Mo Williams
Jameer Nelson (Great fit actually)
Nick Young
Caron Butler

Devster3
11-25-2013, 10:03 PM
Lin, and maybe a cheap Jimmer to learn from Ray Ray?

KnicksorBust
11-25-2013, 10:09 PM
To me, them getting guys like Birdman-Battier-Lewis-Haslem-etc for bargain basement prices was good value but them stealing Ray Allen was criminal. At this point anything can happen. Just look at GP/Mailman to the Lakers.

DreamShaker
11-25-2013, 10:41 PM
Crooner, your my guy, but Jrich?? Lol.

IndyRealist
11-25-2013, 10:43 PM
Don't they already have a 4th with Ray Allen?

IKnowHoops
11-26-2013, 02:54 AM
They'd need a 6th man. A true 6th man. Someone who can shoot and is a versatile scorer.

Jamal Crafword
Vince Carter
I feared Gary Neal would go here
Nate Robinson
Mo Williams
Jameer Nelson (Great fit actually)
Nick Young
Caron Butler

In a month or two, Beasley will be killing it as that guy.

D-Leethal
11-26-2013, 02:36 PM
Hey D-Leethal,
On any team NOT driven by Magic or LeBron you'd be right. But, for example, you bring in Dirk. Then you've got:
#1 LeBron; huge gap: then #2a Dirk, #2b Wade, #2c Bosh. Wade has already shown he is perfectly able to adapt to not being #1; this trend will continue - he'll accept and, with reduced minutes/games still flourish/compliment. Same with Bosh - a perfect complimentary player who, without seeming to need to kill himself puts up reliable numbers while being another near perfect-compliment. And then we come to Dirk.

With LeBron dishing to Dirk, Dirk is gonna GO OFF! He'll have his best year. They won't ask him to do anything but fire away (they'll have everything else sufficiently covered); and boy is he good at that. The team would be indefensible!

They don't have to be (perhaps can't be, as you say) a Big 4 with all being BIG; but they can be 4 Greats making a phenomenal machine. Look what Magic did when surrounded by talented specialists. IF the Lakers "Big 4" had gotten Payton to buy in just a little more to be more fully complimentary; and Malone doesn't get injured; that was working and could've have been a monster. So can LeBron-Bosh-Wade+ one more super-specialist.

Beyond those four, Riley fills the roster with low-priced specialists and/or energy guys (continuing on with how he's been piecing-things together; or like the Lakers did this summer).

I'd put them as odds-on to beat the 72-10 record; it'd be theirs for the taking IF they wanted it enough.

That team would hit its peak and thrive the most when 1 or 2 of those guys are on the bench and you have 1 or 2 guys like Chalmers/Allen/Birdman/Battier on the floor with them. You still need role players - playing 4 bulk scorers even if they compliment each other on paper and have a HOF floor general is not a recipe of success.

Look how hard it was for Bosh to adjust to limited touches. Now your asking Dirk to do the same thing AND asking one or both of them to focus MORE on defense, rebounding, 50-50 balls than scoring (which was all they have been asked to focus on their whole careers).

Unless its a guy like KG, who had no problem bringing defense, intangibles, and efficient spot shooting at the end of his career after being a 20-10 superstar for the bulk of it, there is no reason to stockpile former stars. It doesn't work.

KingPosey
11-26-2013, 02:53 PM
Hey Hellcrooner,
I'm not saying that Dirk's (way) better than Pau; but I don't think Pau works with them (though yes as a 6th man) because he'd be too similar to Bosh. Dirk however would be as close to perfect with those guys as anybody in the League!

Ya but Cuban would find a way to give Dirk a billion dollars a year just so Miami couldn't have him. That's a pipe dream that won't ever happen in a million years

Dade County
11-26-2013, 03:01 PM
Hey Crooner,
This is an excellent subject to bring up.
What we know is that, of all the people that understand the historical significance of dynasties for the players, the team and the city, Pat Riley is way up near the top of the list.

He's got LeBron; who ever has LeBron can win Chips with decent pieces (it would have happened with just slightly better pieces in Cleveland, and that LeBron is not THIS LeBron).

I've been thinking more and more about this. LeBron (and the super-friends) promised a lot more than 3 Chips. He/they put that on themselves; and, especially after all that has gone on, especially the flak, he (they) will be fired-up to the max to prove everybody (and who really did think they were NOT exaggerating??) wrong.

LeBron doesn't need the Max. He's made tons, he'll make tons more. He'll get a bunch more Top Individual Rankings (at least Top 3 for years to come). If/when he has (near-)equaled all the other All-Time Greats for individual hard-ware; the ONLY thing that will be lacking to force his way (play his way) into being GOAT #1 will be Chips. And for that he needs help.

Riley knows all this. What's gonna stop him from continuously surrounding LeBron with good-enough pieces to compete at the highest levels? If LeBron doesn't max-out $-wise, then NOTHING!

Miami and the Heat are gonna be the Greatest Dynasty since the Celtics (50 years ago!). Actually better, because there are far more teams, far more quality players, and more playoff rounds.

Like Miami or not, like the Heat or not, like LBJ (and the super-friends) or not ... this is NOT a long-shot by any means.

And LBJ individually? This is his 11th season. He already has 10 Great Seasons. This one is shaping up to be at least equal to his best. I'm betting he hasn't even reached his peak yet (imagine that!). If he gets to 15 Great Seasons with even only one more MVP, and 3 Chips (during these next 5 years), imo, he's GOAT #1. (He'd ~equal KAJ, Magic and MJ for Chips and MVP's, and he'd be ~equal to only KAJ for number of Great Years, and he'd be the All-Time Greatest Team-Mate and All-Time Most-Versatile/Complete Player.

And the two other Super-Friends? Continuing on "LeBron's Team" can only help their legacy. Of course, they're in and will stay in, as long as they can effectively contribute.

With all this within their grasp, Miami, the Heat, Riley, the Super-Friends, and LeBron WILL sign up AND deliver. (How could they walk away from it).

N.B. I'm NOT forgetting about the injury question. LeBron gets seriously injured and, of course, all of this is off, or at least on hold and in serious jeapordy. (spelling?)

P.S. So, to bring this back to the OP (in case this wasn't obvious); I imagine any of most of the big stars in the League would join this team to be a big part of what it can do with their help. Let future historians try to figure out just how pivotal THEY were to the Dynasty. Look as the Celtics All-Star team - everyone of them looks (and is rated, by most, as) even better than they really were because of the DYNASTY.

That was great :clap:

Dade County
11-26-2013, 03:10 PM
Dirk would really be a nice piece next to Lebron. But we all know if Durant was on the same team as Lebron, that Big 2 would wreck anyone. So getting Durant should be the priority when he is available.
....Also giving Westbrook freedom to be the #1 which I would love to see for entertainment purposes.

I feel the same way.

I can also see the HEAT going after Melo if Lbj walks to another team. I can actually see the HEAT winning the Finals with Wade, Melo & Bosh.

EO1984
11-26-2013, 04:16 PM
No talk of a dynasty with the Heat anymore. Please, stop.

The Pacers will sweep the Heat out of the playoffs this year. #NotBought #Built

Bosh is a stretch 4 who can't bang, Wade is washed up and Lebron is leaving soon.

diu9leilomo
11-26-2013, 04:16 PM
I would use the cap room to invest a super medicine for oden and make ray allen 10yrs younger. BIG 5

diu9leilomo
11-26-2013, 04:21 PM
I feel the same way.

I can also see the HEAT going after Melo if Lbj walks to another team. I can actually see the HEAT winning the Finals with Wade, Melo & Bosh.

Lol no. This team will be 2nd round exit at best.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2013, 04:28 PM
yea lets have the Heat add another cowardly player and dilute the league even more!

Big Zo
11-26-2013, 04:55 PM
yea lets have the Heat add another cowardly player and dilute the league even more!
You're still mad? You're gonna end up getting lines on your forehead, son.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2013, 06:02 PM
You're still mad? You're gonna end up getting lines on your forehead, son.

only you heat bandwagon fans think its cool what they did. do oyu not see how abd the league is right now bcuz of the mentality those players had and the affect it had on other stars.

Big Zo
11-26-2013, 06:11 PM
only you heat bandwagon fans think its cool what they did. do oyu not see how abd the league is right now bcuz of the mentality those players had and the affect it had on other stars.

Uh huh. Well, the Sixers hadn't won **** long before the Heat came together, so you shouldn't be concerned with that, anyway. Lol

2-ONE-5
11-26-2013, 09:54 PM
what are you taking about? i swear 90% of you fake heat fans on here are idiots

Big Zo
11-26-2013, 09:57 PM
what are you taking about? i swear 90% of you fake heat fans on here are idiots

Philly teams are irrelevant. Accept it, and stop hating teams that win.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2013, 11:06 AM
this cmoing rom a bandwagon fan really? Tell Lebron that Michael Carter-Williams says whats up

EL_MACHETE
11-27-2013, 11:11 AM
:D PSD Fight lol Gotta love it when two bandwagon fans fight with eachother

Big Zo
11-27-2013, 11:59 AM
this cmoing rom a bandwagon fan really? Tell Lebron that Michael Carter-Williams says whats up

So i'm a bandwagon fan, huh? Well, isn't it awesome that us bandwagon fans get to watch our team win championships, while you sit there with your thumbs up your *** hating? Btw, "Carter-Williams" sounds like some chick that got married, and hyphenated her name. Don't know what he had to do with this discussion, but whatever.

Dade County
11-27-2013, 12:09 PM
only you heat bandwagon fans think its cool what they did. do oyu not see how abd the league is right now bcuz of the mentality those players had and the affect it had on other stars.

You have made the HEAT your scapegoat, and completely ignored what came before their decision.


History... Only a hand full of teams actually winning a championship... Lakers being gifted Gasol... Spurs winning ping pong balls and getting Duncan... Boston big 3 (normal put together teams really couldn't beat them ((Kg got injured thats why they didn't 2peat))... Jordan era & stern/refs era... Lake Show... Birds's C'
s, HOF are'us.

Wade, Lbj & Bosh took control of their own professional destiny's, and there is noting wrong with that. They were free agents, it's not like they told there teams F you, we are no longer going to respect are contracts and bounce and started playing together.

And don't blame Miami Big 3 for the shape that the league is in right now; blame the league/Stern/Powers to be/Jordan era/Media.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2013, 12:12 PM
:D PSD Fight lol Gotta love it when two bandwagon fans fight with eachother

what?


So i'm a bandwagon fan, huh? Well, isn't it awesome that us bandwagon fans get to watch our team win championships, while you sit there with your thumbs up your *** hating? Btw, "Carter-Williams" sounds like some chick that got married, and hyphenated her name. Don't know what he had to do with this discussion, but whatever.

hah wow expected nothing less here.


You have made the HEAT your scapegoat, and completely ignored what came before their decision.


History... Only a hand full of teams actually winning a championship... Lakers being gifted Gasol... Spurs winning ping pong balls and getting Duncan... Boston big 3 (normal put together teams really couldn't beat them ((Kg got injured thats why they didn't 2peat))... Jordan era & stern/refs era... Lake Show... Birds's C'
s, HOF are'us.

Wade, Lbj & Bosh took control of their own professional destiny's, and there is noting wrong with that. They were free agents, it's not like they told there teams F you, we are no longer going to respect are contracts and bounce and started playing together.

And don't blame Miami Big 3 for the shape that the league is in right now; blame the league/Stern/Powers to be/Jordan era/Media.

and expected even less here.

YoungOne
11-27-2013, 12:14 PM
would be a shame if lebron has to take the same money as wade and bosh again..

Dade County
11-27-2013, 12:18 PM
I would use the cap room to invest a super medicine for oden and make ray allen 10yrs younger. BIG 5

Lol nice...



Lol no. This team will be 2nd round exit at best.

I really think they would win it all next year, if Lbj decides to leave. Pat would put the right players next to them.



yea lets have the Heat add another cowardly player and dilute the league even more!

Why do they have to be cowardly?

Look at the **** charles barkley and other former stars have to go through, because of the cheating Jordan era. They should have position themselves to be own better teams/organizations to; so they could have countered what the league was doing to them (and what I mean by that is... Jordan era).

Now all they can do is praise Jordan every chance they get... But keeping the truth locked away, and knowing they really never had a fair chance.

Dade County
11-27-2013, 12:22 PM
and expected even less here.

So wack... thats all you can say.

You are a better poster then that...smh

Just keeping blaming Miami's big 3 for all that troubles the NBA, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Stinkyoutsider
11-27-2013, 12:35 PM
Depends on your definition of big 4? I already think they've got their big 4 (James, Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen).

The 4th piece in a big 4 for the Heat won't have to do anything but what they do best. Allen is doing just that (3 point shooting) but I hope people don't sleep on him this year because he's proven that he can still get to the hoop when he needs to.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2013, 01:52 PM
Why do they have to be cowardly?

Look at the **** charles barkley and other former stars have to go through, because of the cheating Jordan era. They should have position themselves to be own better teams/organizations to; so they could have countered what the league was doing to them (and what I mean by that is... Jordan era).

Now all they can do is praise Jordan every chance they get... But keeping the truth locked away, and knowing they really never had a fair chance.[/QUOTE]

you really cant be serious with all of this nonsense?


So wack... thats all you can say.

You are a better poster then that...smh

Just keeping blaming Miami's big 3 for all that troubles the NBA, whatever helps you sleep at night.

there is nothing to say to a heat fan aobut this bcuz it leads to ******** *** responses like 2 you have given me already. You tell me how its good to have 3 top 15 (at the time) stars team up to play in the same market? even wrose that market is a joke and cant even sell out games consistently. Do you not get that mentality of i cant win unless i get the best to help me. Jordan and others have said it best when they said they hated their oppenents and wanted to beat them not help them.

iDefend10
11-27-2013, 02:04 PM
Maybe some veterans who never won a ring will ring chase and join the heat. Steve Nash maybe if he doesn't retire at the end of this season (Is he locked into a contract with the Lakers? If so when is it up) Great guy to have come off the bench and run the offense with the bench guys. Great jump shooter, 3 point shot all day, and one of the greatest foul shooters of all time. A veteran presence and leadership. Kind of makes sense if he went there.

YankeesR#2
11-27-2013, 02:29 PM
Miami and the Heat are gonna be the Greatest Dynasty since the Celtics (50 years ago!). Actually better, because there are far more teams, far more quality players, and more playoff rounds



btw, my last post may certainly appear as though I'm a huge LeBron and/or Heat fan. I'm a HUGE Lakers fan (for a full half-century plus); and have been a HUGE Kobe fan for all this career.

My post hopefully simply reflects what I see as transcendent Greatness in LBJ. Even if it "hurts" the Lakers (and Kobe's) long-shot chances for more Chips; I'm excited to see if LeBron and the Heat can pull this greatest-of-NBA-challenges off. And they DO have a serious shot at it.

I was a little concerned with your first quote but then you cleared things up with your next post.
The Celtics won 11 out of 13 NBA championships and both times they lost the lost to the eventual winner. Once in the NBA finals and once in the Easter finals.

Being a Laker fan you may have "Psychogenic Amnesia" which is understandable but your argument that it was easier back then is specious because the fewer number of teams meant that the talent was not spread so thin. Look at the Lakers. In West and Baylor they had two of the top players of all time on the same team yet they never won even one championship together.

All the teams had good players but only one team had Bill Russell the greatest player of all time.

Dade County
11-27-2013, 03:26 PM
there is nothing to say to a heat fan aobut this bcuz it leads to ******** *** responses like 2 you have given me already. You tell me how its good to have 3 top 15 (at the time) stars team up to play in the same market?

I never said them coming together would be good for the league from a competitive stand point.

What I have stated was that they took their future into their own hands, and thats how it should be. Not wanting for billionaires to trade you, when they are done with you.




even wrose that market is a joke and cant even sell out games consistently. Do you not get that mentality of i cant win unless i get the best to help me.

HEAT season tickets sale out... People coming to each and every game is another story.



Jordan and others have said it best when they said they hated their oppenents and wanted to beat them not help them.

It's a different time an era... Jordan era should not be compared to this era, it doesn't make any sense.

And Jordan can't talk about this situation... He is the reason why they are super star calls in the league. He is the pinnacle that all these NBA player's of today chase, but they would never have all the luxury he had.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2013, 03:41 PM
what does a different era have to with Jordan with what im talking about? For starters stop trying to discredit Jordan bcuz you are just discrediting yourself by doing it. It doesnt matter if you played in the 1920's or right now to have an opinion of preffering to beat your rivals rather than team up with them. NBA players become bigger ******* by the season and all want to be friends

Big Zo
11-27-2013, 04:14 PM
what does a different era have to with Jordan with what im talking about? For starters stop trying to discredit Jordan bcuz you are just discrediting yourself by doing it. It doesnt matter if you played in the 1920's or right now to have an opinion of preffering to beat your rivals rather than team up with them. NBA players become bigger ******* by the season and all want to be friends

Somehow you strike me as the type that argues over who would win in a fight between Batman and Superman, and plays Dungeons and Dragons inside his parents' basement.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2013, 04:21 PM
grow up dude. i'm not talking to you here.

Big Zo
11-27-2013, 04:25 PM
grow up dude. i'm not talking to you here.
Yup, I was right.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2013, 05:06 PM
yea u are man what can i say you are jsut too cool for me

Dade County
11-27-2013, 05:32 PM
what does a different era have to with Jordan with what im talking about? For starters stop trying to discredit Jordan bcuz you are just discrediting yourself by doing it. It doesnt matter if you played in the 1920's or right now to have an opinion of preffering to beat your rivals rather than team up with them. NBA players become bigger ******* by the season and all want to be friends

I'm not discrediting Jordan, I am just stating that he had the advantage of stern/refs... It's sure, so what.

Jordan is still the greatest, he just would not have been perfect in 6 Finals appearances.

And yes todays players are very friendly with each other compared to the past players, but thats do to aau and the world is more globalize now. A high school star would have played all over the U.S with his future rivals, of course they are going to hang out with each other (there young kids), and some of them make the NBA.

Why should they hate each other, after hanging out with each other in high school and college... People that share the same interest in things, normally gravitate to each other.

2-ONE-5
11-27-2013, 10:16 PM
ill give you that with the aau ball and world games and stuff like that to why they are friendlier but its still a joke in the grand scheme of it all.

i dont know what ur getting at with MJ and Stern but every super star gets calls i mean you're a Heat fan your team is known to flop including the best player in the game who has a physical advantage over 99% of the league.

Pablonovi
11-28-2013, 03:24 PM
Miami and the Heat are gonna be the Greatest Dynasty since the Celtics (50 years ago!). Actually better, because there are far more teams, far more quality players, and more playoff rounds




I was a little concerned with your first quote but then you cleared things up with your next post.
The Celtics won 11 out of 13 NBA championships and both times they lost the lost to the eventual winner. Once in the NBA finals and once in the Easter finals.

Being a Laker fan you may have "Psychogenic Amnesia" which is understandable but your argument that it was easier back then is specious because the fewer number of teams meant that the talent was not spread so thin. Look at the Lakers. In West and Baylor they had two of the top players of all time on the same team yet they never won even one championship together.

All the teams had good players but only one team had Bill Russell the greatest player of all time.

Hey YankeesR#2,
I don't know what "Psychogenic Amnesia" is; especially as being understandable for a Lakers fan; would you mind explaining?

I've been described accurately as "weird". One of my "weirdnesses" is that I didn't live anywhere near L.A. when I became a Lakers fan. Another is that I have often rooted for other teams and players when they were something special (call me a "serially band-waggoning fan"). From my beginning fan-dom-ship I loved Wilt (starting with the Harlem Globetrotters, long, long before L.A.) and the Oscar-Lucas (bi-racial) duo. I loved Connie "Hawk". I loved Rick Barry wherever he played, David "SkyWalker Thompson; same for Dr. J.. Love KAJ when he was at UCLA and then with the Bucks. Loved Big Red Bill Walton at UCLA, with the Blazers, (somehow even when he played for "the unmentionables" (hehe)). Didn't miss a moment of the 6 Bulls Chips Playoff runs. Loved Stockton-Malone. Came to deeply respect Rodman (for his work-ethic, exercycle, and low-post smarts). etc. etc.

Don't really want to re-hash the Bill Russell / C's discussion; but it WAS I who brought it up; so fair game for you to respond. And I should respond back to your points.

I have made your exact argument often: fewer teams means more-concentrated talent per team. But, regardless, the overall talent level NBA-wise in the earliest 25 years, (due largely, though not exclusively to 2 key things: 1) the not-at-all integrated TO the not-yet-fully integrated League; 2) the NBA was semi-unknown - it was not drawing the US-wide, much less world-wide talent then the way it did ever since.)

Further, the early years C's Dynasty had less rounds, significantly less chance for getting defeated; upsets happen.

Most importantly, in my opinion, THE highest concentration of talent on one team (as compared to the rest of the League) in all of NBA history was on the C's during Russell's tenure. I call them the Celtics' All-Star Team.

Think about that. They had Hall-Of-Fame All-Stars all over the place, and then in comes super All-Star Hondo as 6th man. No other team had half the All-Stars they had.

PLUS, they had Red. I "hated" Red (simply and only because the C's always beat my Lakers). But I never refused to acknowledge his greatness as both a Coach and as a multi-purpose GM etc. The C's won many series that went long (thus a small margin of victory). They won many a 7th game (thus the tiniest of margin possible). Red, in my opinion, was, COMPARATIVELY to the coaches of his time, far and away THE greatest coach (plus GM, etc) of All-Time. He was so ahead of his time, he was worth much more than 1 or 2 points a game.

Given all this, no wonder they won so much.

As to Russell, I watched his entire career (and Wilt's, Baylor's, West's, and O's). I was sure then that he was NOT the best player in the League one single year during his entire career. * Wilt was ALWAYS individually better than him. Wilt racked up 29+ ppg and similar rebounds (over 140 games mano-a-mano); that's not much less than he did against all the other centers - think about that. AND, what it WAS, was complete individual dominance. I also believe that West was always a better individual player than Russell. Same for O. Most years, same for Baylor. (Early on, same for Pettit; on Russell's own team, Cousy, early-on, Sam Jones at least once, and Hondo later on, were all better than Russ, on his own team.

RUSSELL, GREATEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF ALL-TIME?
I take what seems to be a minority position on this; but I saw them play each other repeatedly; and Wilt was better on defense than Bill was. They didn't keep blocked shots stats in those days, but contemporaries speak of 20-block games by Wilt. Imagine that. Would it be a stretch to claim that, besides all those un-recorded blocks, that Wilt intimidated (thus prevented and or mis-directed) opposing players' shots more than all the other centers in the League combined? If so, still, clearly he was "in a league by himself" in this regard. No one from back then denies this aspect.

He was the greatest athlete of the entire 1900s. He was the quickest (most explosive), fastest (which is distinctly different than quick), strongest and had, by far, the most endurance of anybody during his playing years. (Heck, long after his NBA days, he was a high quality PROFESSIONAL volley ball player.)

As bagwell here at PSD so aptly says, Russell was THE luckiest player ever, the perfect fit within that All-Star player and coaching system. Put him on half the other teams in the League at that time and he would have gotten ZERO titles. Think about that.

Compared to the other greatest centers, Russell is not even in the top 5 individually (for example: KAJ, Wilt, Hakeem were incredibly better and more all-sided/complete than him). (Russell could pass; but the rest of his offense was very weak! His shooting sucked!)

Put Wilt and Russ in today's game. Wilt gets 25+ ppg and is the League's top rebounder (easy). Russ, on the other hand, doesn't even play center, but PF, and is NOT in the top 5 PFs. That's the gap we're talking about here.
Independently of each other, bagwell and I both have come to remarkably the same analysis: and place Bill Russell around 16th All-Time Goat.

* Yes Russell got more MVP's than Wilt; but, nonetheless he was NOT better than Wilt (in the regular season, for which the award is given) in any at all of those years. The MVP voting was warped in favor of the East Coast (where the league and its talent were both overwhelming situated; as were the voters!; and there was, in particular, on top of the East Coast big bias, a pro-Celtics bias). If one looks at the NBA All-First-Team, year after year Wilt beat Russ. This is just one of a number of strong reasons why I value the First-Team All-NBA rankings much higher than the MVP votes (additionally, over-emphasis on first place in MVP votes has virtually negated the value of having finished lower than 1st).

** Even Red himself stopped claiming that Russ was the Greatest Celtic ever, once Bird had done his thing. Think about that.

*** Last point, I swear (hehe). A fair question to ask of me: If the Wilt-Russell era was so weak generally in terms of talent-wise; how come you rank 5 of those players so high in your GOAT All-Time Rankings? My explanation: yes the overall talent level was decidedly weaker; but that doesn't mean, theoretically that you couldn't/didn't have a small number of "ahead-of-their-times" semi-unique talents. All 5 of: Wilt, West, O, Baylor and Russell were such. They could all have played in any other NBA era and been All-Stars. I rank Wilt as #4 Goat (2nd center); West and O as, respectively, the 3rd and 4th All-Time Best SGs, Baylor in my Top 5 PFs, and Russell, as I said as GOAT #16. Thus, according to me, the League way back then was exceptionally, unique-ly "top-heavy" (both team-wise, the C's, AND, individual-wise, with these 5 monster-talents).

RiceOnTheRun
11-29-2013, 05:01 AM
The Heat need to either drop one of their "Big Three" or find some more glue guys.

I still think Lebron/Melo would be a more deadly combination than Lebron/Wade but having both would be ridiculous trying to spread the touches around. Bosh imo is crucial to Lebron as he is a big man that can also spread the floor. There are very few other players in the NBA than can replace him and he is crucial to giving Lebron space to post up.

What the Heat have been doing over the past two years has been just as brilliant as their bold play for the Big 3 in 2010. Bringing in solid vets/misfits at very affordable prices? I mean Battier/Miller at first, then Allen/Lewis/Birdman and this year Oden/Beasley. Battier/Miller/Birdman/RAY have all had huge playoff contributions. Beasley is looking real solid as a 6th man. When comparing them to the relatively shallow 2011 Heat, they have definitely grown as a group. Their second unit (Cole/Allen/Battier/Beasley/Birdman) would probably be a 6-8 seed in the East (in it's pitiful state right now at least). They need to continue with this, finding more pieces to fill the cracks in any weakness they have. Hell, even Rashard Lewis has had his moments with the Heat. The more they can afford to rest Lebron, the better.

SMH!
11-29-2013, 05:22 AM
Chalmers, Wade, Lebron, Melo, Bosh or Melo, Lebron.
Small ball its what is about lately.

:punish::facepalm::laugh:

Pablonovi
11-29-2013, 11:10 AM
The Heat need to either drop one of their "Big Three" or find some more glue guys.

I still think Lebron/Melo would be a more deadly combination than Lebron/Wade but having both would be ridiculous trying to spread the touches around. Bosh imo is crucial to Lebron as he is a big man that can also spread the floor. There are very few other players in the NBA than can replace him and he is crucial to giving Lebron space to post up.

What the Heat have been doing over the past two years has been just as brilliant as their bold play for the Big 3 in 2010. Bringing in solid vets/misfits at very affordable prices? I mean Battier/Miller at first, then Allen/Lewis/Birdman and this year Oden/Beasley. Battier/Miller/Birdman/RAY have all had huge playoff contributions. Beasley is looking real solid as a 6th man. When comparing them to the relatively shallow 2011 Heat, they have definitely grown as a group. Their second unit (Cole/Allen/Battier/Beasley/Birdman) would probably be a 6-8 seed in the East (in it's pitiful state right now at least). They need to continue with this, finding more pieces to fill the cracks in any weakness they have. Hell, even Rashard Lewis has had his moments with the Heat. The more they can afford to rest Lebron, the better.

Hey ROTRun,
Of all the superstars in the today's league I think only LeBron and CP3 could make it work with Melo. I agree with entire post.

C_Mund
11-29-2013, 11:27 AM
Why stop at 4? They should just go for a big 15 while the other 29 teams tank for a top draft pick.
#2013NBA

IKnowHoops
11-29-2013, 02:16 PM
Some games Bosh is great, and some games just awful. I think it would help the Heat a lot to trade Bosh for some pieces. Bosh plays and contributes like a piece not a superstar. But I still think he can bring superstar value in return for him.

If you trade Bosh, in return you want to get younger, taller, and more athletic. If you could get three guys in return for him that could equal his value.

I think a dream scenario for the Heat would be Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and David Lee for Bosh.

Any deal where you could get Cousins or Blake

lajoie
11-29-2013, 02:58 PM
Some games Bosh is great, and some games just awful. I think it would help the Heat a lot to trade Bosh for some pieces. Bosh plays and contributes like a piece not a superstar. But I still think he can bring superstar value in return for him.

If you trade Bosh, in return you want to get younger, taller, and more athletic. If you could get three guys in return for him that could equal his value.

I think a dream scenario for the Heat would be Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and David Lee for Bosh.

Any deal where you could get Cousins or Blake

Did Bosh all of a sudden become a reincarnation of Bill Russell or something?

Pablonovi
11-29-2013, 07:18 PM
Why stop at 4? They should just go for a big 15 while the other 29 teams tank for a top draft pick.
#2013NBA

Hey C_Mund,
This, your post, is officially a nominee for: GOAT All-Time Top 100 Greatest Funny PSD Posts.

I wonder if there might not be 29 very-good players in this draft???

Pablonovi
11-29-2013, 07:24 PM
Some games Bosh is great, and some games just awful. I think it would help the Heat a lot to trade Bosh for some pieces. Bosh plays and contributes like a piece not a superstar. But I still think he can bring superstar value in return for him.

If you trade Bosh, in return you want to get younger, taller, and more athletic. If you could get three guys in return for him that could equal his value.

I think a dream scenario for the Heat would be Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and David Lee for Bosh.

Any deal where you could get Cousins or Blake

Hey IKnowHoops,
Color me confused, please.
On the one hand, it seems like you're saying that Bosh is NOT that good because his performances are so uneven, first great, then awful.
But on the other hand, you propose he be traded for: Klay, Harrison & DLee. These three are not exactly chopped liver. Bosh at his best was never as good as those three put together, don't cha think?

Or are you (hehe) just trying to pull a fast one on the Warriors so that the Heat can go 15 deep (as C_Mund just "suggested"???

iDefend10
11-29-2013, 09:08 PM
Theres no way I give that up for Bosh even Toronto Raptor Bosh. Those guys are pretty much a good chunk of the center piece the warriors are trying to build right? There aiming for a title and trading Bosh for that takes those chances away instantly.

Iggz53
11-29-2013, 10:16 PM
Yes, the Big 4. LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and the unstoppable Jason Richardson.