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View Full Version : Does Miami have the best second unit in the NBA?



IKnowHoops
11-21-2013, 08:08 PM
PG Norris Cole
SG Ray Allen
SF Beasley
PF Battier
C Birdman

The last two games they have been blowing the starters off the court in the fourth quarter and finishing the last 9 minutes of the quarter and extending the leads. They are sharing the ball well and all of them can shoot. Accept for bird man obviously.

flea
11-21-2013, 08:15 PM
hahaha

ROY 2 MVP Braun
11-21-2013, 08:17 PM
PG Norris Cole
SG Ray Allen
SF Beasley
PF Battier
C Birdman

The last two games they have been blowing the starters off the court in the fourth quarter and finishing the last 9 minutes of the quarter and extending the leads. They are sharing the ball well and all of them can shoot. Accept for bird man obviously.


Youknowhoops so you tell me...
Just kidding idk about the best but that 2nd unti fights for an 8 seed in the east this yr if it was just them as starters and u can sign free agents to fill out the bench

ATL#22
11-21-2013, 08:17 PM
That unit could beat the 76ers

ROY 2 MVP Braun
11-21-2013, 08:17 PM
How has Beasley been playing?

therealwd27
11-21-2013, 08:25 PM
Beasley has been very efficient and Rashard Lewis seems to be very healthy finally. Ray Allen is always ready and doesn't seem to be slowing down at all.

That being said I love our 2nd unit. Will be huge for us in playoffs especially if Oden can provide 10mpg

ManRam
11-21-2013, 08:27 PM
Last year they weren't even close. Middle of the pack in scoring, FG% and most all-encompassing advanced stats. They probably weren't a top-10 bench.

They've been better this year, especially since they're shooting an insane percentage from the field. But I'm still inclined to say "no".

I think by season's end, Denver, BK, SAS, LAL and LAC will be considered to have better benches. A few others could creep up there.


They fill their roles well and fit that team perfectly, and if they're hitting threes the Heat are nearly impossible to beat. But there are more talented benches out there.

KG2TB
11-21-2013, 08:28 PM
It's a nasty bench. A case could easily be made for the best. Clippers is up there just off the top of my head.

therealwd27
11-21-2013, 08:29 PM
Last year they weren't even close. Middle of the pack in scoring, FG% and most all-encompassing advanced stats. They probably weren't a top-10 bench.

They've been better this year, especially since they're shooting an insane percentage from the field. But I'm still inclined to say "no".

I think by season's end, Denver, BK, SAS, LAL and LAC will be considered to have better benches. A few others could creep up there.


They fill their roles well and fit that team perfectly, and if they're hitting threes the Heat are nearly impossible to beat. But there are more talented benches out there.

Lol your joking right Denver? Lakers?

Smh

Lakeshow24KB
11-21-2013, 08:32 PM
Lol your joking right Denver? Lakers?

Smh

Lakers are leading the NBA in Bench points per game.

therealwd27
11-21-2013, 08:38 PM
Lakers are leading the NBA in Bench points per game.

Im aware. But they are taking 16 more shots per game then the Heat bench. They are at 43% FG . They are taking more shots but are not as efficient as the Heat bench

therealwd27
11-21-2013, 08:42 PM
Lakers avg 9 more points per game on 16 more shots. Try again.

ManRam
11-21-2013, 08:43 PM
Lol your joking right Denver? Lakers?

Smh

Lakers merely due to volume. The Heat bench is a much better fit for their team, and has more talent. I won't say I'm right, at all. But there are many ways to go about this, but the Lakers might rely on their bench more than any other team, and that means something.


Denver's, definitely. I don't think they're a playoff team, but not because of their bench. Nate and Andre Miller are great bench players. McGee, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Anthony Randolph...that's pretty darn solid :shrug:

therealwd27
11-21-2013, 08:45 PM
Lakers merely due to volume. The Heat bench is a much better fit for their team, and has more talent. I won't say I'm right, at all. But there are many ways to go about this, but the Lakers might rely on their bench more than any other team, andthat means something.


Denver's, definitely. I don't think they're a playoff team, but not because of their bench. Nate and Andre Miller are great bench players. McGee, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov, Anthony Randolph...that's pretty darn solid :shrug:

Your right about Denver. My bad. Solid bench. But Lakers Eeh not sure. But it is cause of volume. But Heat bench very very efficient

IKnowHoops
11-21-2013, 08:54 PM
PG Norris Cole
SG Ray Allen
SF Baesly (Rashard)
PF Battier (Rashard)
C Birdman

If I were the Heat Udonis would not play.

Id Start

PG Chalmers///Cole
SG Wade///Ray Allen
SF Lebron///Beasely
PF Rashard///Battier
C Bosh///Birdman

Roger Mason and James Jones can easily come in and just fill a spot for a guy that hurt. And hopefully Oden can work towards playing between 14-18 minutes per game.

Lakeshow24KB
11-21-2013, 08:56 PM
Lakers avg 9 more points per game on 16 more shots. Try again.

Okay but you were laughing and shaking your head about it, if they're leading the league in points per game that means they're obviously doing something right.

Dade County
11-21-2013, 09:01 PM
PG Norris Cole
SG Ray Allen
SF Beasley
PF Battier
C Birdman

The last two games they have been blowing the starters off the court in the fourth quarter and finishing the last 9 minutes of the quarter and extending the leads. They are sharing the ball well and all of them can shoot. Accept for bird man obviously.

I was thinking about started a thread on this same subject...

The backups have scored 40+ pts in 3 straight games... I think we will know the answer to your question, if the HEAT bench can continue this for about 20 more games. Then they would be no doubt.

IKnowHoops
11-21-2013, 09:15 PM
I was thinking about started a thread on this same subject...

The backups have scored 40+ pts in 3 straight games... I think we will know the answer to your question, if the HEAT bench can continue this for about 20 more games. Then they would be no doubt.


If there Bench can continue to play at this level, barring injury how can this team loose. I'm interested in seeing how this Heat second team do against the the Pacers and Spurs.

Trueblue2
11-21-2013, 10:23 PM
Last year they weren't even close. Middle of the pack in scoring, FG% and most all-encompassing advanced stats. They probably weren't a top-10 bench.

They've been better this year, especially since they're shooting an insane percentage from the field. But I'm still inclined to say "no".

I think by season's end, Denver, BK, SAS, LAL and LAC will be considered to have better benches. A few others could creep up there.


They fill their roles well and fit that team perfectly, and if they're hitting threes the Heat are nearly impossible to beat. But there are more talented benches out there.

Im saying this as a laker fan, LAL's bench production is more a result of having to pick up the slack for the starters inconsistency/inefficiencies than it does the actual talent level on the bench. I mean farmar/xman/johnson/williamz/kaman is an average bench unit at best. they have lots of athletic potential and are in a fast paced system designed to get production from castaways with certain skill sets that doesn't really result in wins but puts up numbers that impress at first glance.

Dont get me wrong, LAL'S bench play has been a silver lining in a dark cloud, but when your bench is on par with your starters they're bound to see inflated numbers.

Production wise they're near the top, talent wise it's not even close. Plus wait and see. how xman and meeks perform once kobe is getting kobe minutes. Theres just not gonna be enough minutes to go around at the 2 and 3 for meeks, x, young, and johnson to be nearly as effective as they have been.

kdspurman
11-21-2013, 10:36 PM
They're up there, but don't think they're best now. Not sure if they'll claim that title by seasons end, but we'll see.

kdspurman
11-21-2013, 10:37 PM
If there Bench can continue to play at this level, barring injury how can this team loose. I'm interested in seeing how this Heat second team do against the the Pacers and Spurs.

I haven't watch Indy's bench too much, plus Granger has hardly played so it's tough to gauge where they're at. The Spurs bench looks even better than last year, I think it'd be fun to watch against those 2.

Tony_Starks
11-21-2013, 10:44 PM
The Heats bench is easily the best in the league. Anytime you can bring the Ray Allen's, Rashard Lewis, Coles, B Easy, Battier, and Birdmans of the world off your bench that's pretty serious.

Their bench could be starters in the East and make the playoffs.

JNA17
11-21-2013, 11:15 PM
Lol your joking right Denver? Lakers?

Smh

You realize the Lakers lead the league in bench points per game right?

P&GRealist
11-21-2013, 11:26 PM
^Dude, that's because the starters sucked so bad with a broken down Nash and Pau, and that was before Jordan Hill was inserted back into the starting lineup. Now all of a sudden, the Lakers starters look so much better than their bench these past few games because Xavier Henry has come back down to earth and there's no Jordan Hill on that 2nd unit, but instead Chris Kaman with Shawne Williams just jacking up 3's.

IKnowHoops
11-21-2013, 11:33 PM
The Heats bench is easily the best in the league. Anytime you can bring the Ray Allen's, Rashard Lewis, Coles, B Easy, Battier, and Birdmans of the world off your bench that's pretty serious.

Their bench could be starters in the East and make the playoffs.

Do they repeat in your opinion if none gets hurt?

Kyben36
11-21-2013, 11:38 PM
that unit has nobody who can create IMO, not a good rebouding unit, is full of players who are solely dependant on lebron james. a la Allen ( at this stage) Batier (at this stage) both just 3 pt shooters, that linup could not create shots, out rebound teams, or out defend teams. that linup just isnt that great. with the help of one of the big 2 ( bosh is not an offensive creator) most of those guys could not find a basket. specificaly Birdman Allen and Batier. Cole and Beas might be OK

therealwd27
11-22-2013, 12:05 AM
You realize the Lakers lead the league in bench points per game right?

Lol yes I'm well aware. But they also shoot 16 more shots per game then the heat and only avg 9 points more while also shooting 7% less in FG..so they might score more but no where near as efficient

therealwd27
11-22-2013, 12:07 AM
that unit has nobody who can create IMO, not a good rebouding unit, is full of players who are solely dependant on lebron james. a la Allen ( at this stage) Batier (at this stage) both just 3 pt shooters, that linup could not create shots, out rebound teams, or out defend teams. that linup just isnt that great. with the help of one of the big 2 ( bosh is not an offensive creator) most of those guys could not find a basket. specificaly Birdman Allen and Batier. Cole and Beas might be OK

Smh. Damn the hate is real.

Cole and Beasley create shots. And they play good defense which leads to easy offense. I believe Miami are 1st in offense efficiency in the NBA. There bench is shooting 50% and avg 37 ppg. So not sure what nonsense you are speaking.

John Walls Era
11-22-2013, 12:32 AM
Its good. But most of them are spot up shooters. Cole is ok at attacking the rim and Anderson is an energy guy. They don't have that dynamic scorer off the bench (Crawford or JR).

Kyben36
11-22-2013, 01:02 AM
Smh. Damn the hate is real.

Cole and Beasley create shots. And they play good defense which leads to easy offense. I believe Miami are 1st in offense efficiency in the NBA. There bench is shooting 50% and avg 37 ppg. So not sure what nonsense you are speaking.

Your 2nd unit never plays just the 2nd unit, they allways have one of lebron and wade one the court becuase your bench cant create, i also stated that beasley and Cole might be ok at creating offense, but like i stated, Battier, Birdman and Allen all are thriving off others and not doing anything other than standing around waiting for handouts. of course your 2nd units is shooting 50%, that doesnt mean they create their offense, when Allen and Battier literaly just sit out at the 3pt line and wait for open shots of course they will shoot a good %, guese you going to tell me since Birdman shoots a high % he is good at creating offense, James make the 2nd unit look great by playing with them. its not as if the 1st unit all comes out and the 2nd unit plays, lebron makes most of those guys look good, specificaly the 3 i stated.

Pablonovi
11-22-2013, 01:08 AM
Im saying this as a laker fan, LAL's bench production is more a result of having to pick up the slack for the starters inconsistency/inefficiencies than it does the actual talent level on the bench. I mean farmar/xman/johnson/williamz/kaman is an average bench unit at best. they have lots of athletic potential and are in a fast paced system designed to get production from castaways with certain skill sets that doesn't really result in wins but puts up numbers that impress at first glance.

Dont get me wrong, LAL'S bench play has been a silver lining in a dark cloud, but when your bench is on par with your starters they're bound to see inflated numbers.

Production wise they're near the top, talent wise it's not even close. Plus wait and see. how xman and meeks perform once kobe is getting kobe minutes. Theres just not gonna be enough minutes to go around at the 2 and 3 for meeks, x, young, and johnson to be nearly as effective as they have been.

Hey trueblue2,
Until they moved Jordan Hill to the 1st unit this was exactly right. I posted back then that the difference between their best player (whoever that was) and their 10th was not much and so therefore they should pretty play everybody equal minutes (22 or a game) with per-game (depending on opponent) and in-game (depending on who's hot/not) adjustments. This would maximize the available energy; and seeing as they didn't have great talent, would be their best chance to win games, and keep other games close.

"...when your bench is on par with your starters they're bound to see inflated numbers." Exactly.
"Production wise they're near the top, talent wise it's not even close." Exactly.
Likewise your prediction about once Kobe is getting Kobe minutes.

Excellent post thru and thru.

By the end of the season, the one advantage of not having Kobe in the first 15+ games is that subs are getting lots more minutes = good sifting mechanism for the coaching staff and good preparation for those who will still be around playing serious minutes then. Still, (not counting Kobe and Jordan Hill, who's a keeper and, imo, will stay this good or get even a little better) it looks to me like the Lakers have sub-par talent pretty much across the board; so, LAL's bench will NOT be one of the top 5, or even in the top half of the league by season's end.

Pablonovi
11-22-2013, 01:25 AM
To get back on-topic. I believe Miami's bench is easily one of the top 3 benches in the league and will remain so, if not become undeniably the #1 bench-squad. Reasons: 1) so many specialists requiring only a superb distributor/thinker; 2) LeBron, the current game's greatest distributor/thinker (or 2nd to CP3). I think Spo will deliberately play LeBron with the second unit as much as possible exactly because this will make Miami extremely hard to beat. On most nights, against most teams, the 1st unit with LeBron is so good, that even when THEY play without him, the combination of those two "groupings" will have a plus/minus positive value; allowing him to accomplish the same with the second unit. This will make them extremely hard for any other team to beat 4 times out of 7. I think one of Spo's highest priorities during the regular season will be to "perfect" the LeBron-2nd unit "harmony".

I don't have a strong position on any other team's 2nd unit (outside of the Heat and Lakers) because I just haven't watched nearly enough of them in action; and so, I'd only be repeating other people's opinions; better to just stfu, no?

Dade County
11-22-2013, 01:47 AM
Your 2nd unit never plays just the 2nd unit, they allways have one of lebron and wade one the court becuase your bench cant create,

Wrong... these past 2 games, Lbj hasn't even played in the 4th (and Bosh barley played in the 4th also). And you really need to watch Cole, he has grown as a player.



i also stated that beasley and Cole might be ok at creating offense, but like i stated, Battier, Birdman and Allen all are thriving off others and not doing anything other than standing around waiting for handouts.

Ray Ray doesn't just stand around... he creates and is always running around, getting himself open.



of course your 2nd units is shooting 50%, that doesnt mean they create their offense, when Allen and Battier literaly just sit out at the 3pt line and wait for open shots of course they will shoot a good %, guese you going to tell me since Birdman shoots a high % he is good at creating offense, James make the 2nd unit look great by playing with them.

James does play with the 2nd unit usually, but lately he has been enjoying the view from the bench.



All five Miami starters sat out the fourth quarter for the second straight night, and Dwyane Wade sat out the whole way once again to give his knees more rest.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/232764521.html




its not as if the 1st unit all comes out and the 2nd unit plays, lebron makes most of those guys look good, specificaly the 3 i stated.

Thats is what exactly is going on.... The entire 2nd unit (NO starters) is playing entire quarters :nod:

Pablonovi
11-22-2013, 02:27 AM
Wrong... these past 2 games, Lbj hasn't even played in the 4th (and Bosh barley played in the 4th also). And you really need to watch Cole, he has grown as a player.



Ray Ray doesn't just stand around... he creates and is always running around, getting himself open.



James does play with the 2nd unit usually, but lately he has been enjoying the view from the bench.





Thats is what exactly is going on.... The entire 2nd unit (NO starters) is playing entire quarters :nod:

Hey Dade County,
Yes, that's true about them playing entirely by themselves. I attribute this to the facts that:
1) the first unit has mostly passed on leads to them;
2) they have at least held onto to those leads;
3) when they do that there's much less reason to play LeBron (resting him when possible = better for playoffs);
and
4) Spo is testing and building confidence under ideal circumstances and he is an excellent coach, marked particularly by his "flexibility"; i.e., he'll catch a whiff of something and notice it, pay more attention to it; and then, whereas before it was an "accident"; experiment with it, adjust it, perfect it. (It doesn't hurt him that he has so much to work with - Kudos also to Riles and LeBron, the specialists, et al.)

ntd
11-22-2013, 02:30 AM
Lakers are leading the NBA in Bench points per game.

Thats because the lakers starters are so bad.

Pablonovi
11-22-2013, 02:51 AM
Hey ntd,
True enough; but did you read the other, previous, posts in this thread? It's a safe bet nobody disagrees with this, and a number of posters said so. Not trying to get on your case, btw.

IKnowHoops
11-22-2013, 03:28 PM
Hey Dade County,
Yes, that's true about them playing entirely by themselves. I attribute this to the facts that:
1) the first unit has mostly passed on leads to them;
2) they have at least held onto to those leads;
3) when they do that there's much less reason to play LeBron (resting him when possible = better for playoffs);
and
4) Spo is testing and building confidence under ideal circumstances and he is an excellent coach, marked particularly by his "flexibility"; i.e., he'll catch a whiff of something and notice it, pay more attention to it; and then, whereas before it was an "accident"; experiment with it, adjust it, perfect it. (It doesn't hurt him that he has so much to work with - Kudos also to Riles and LeBron, the specialists, et al.)

Yes what has been happening the last two games, the Heat 2nd team has come in Norris,Ray, Beasely, Rashard, Birdman and taken a ten or so point lead into the 4th quarter and extended it to 20 or so both times against the opposing teams starters and made it so the starters didn't have to come back in.

That is an awesome and rare luxury to have it you can bring in an entire second team of players and have them be good enough to outplay the other teams starters and extend leads and finish games so your starters can sit out the entire fourth quarter. For a team that has starters of Lebron, Wade, and Bosh thats just not fair.

Honestly Lebron needs to stay put. Pat gets it freaking done.

Pablonovi
11-22-2013, 05:52 PM
Yes what has been happening the last two games, the Heat 2nd team has come in Norris,Ray, Beasely, Rashard, Birdman and taken a ten or so point lead into the 4th quarter and extended it to 20 or so both times against the opposing teams starters and made it so the starters didn't have to come back in.

That is an awesome and rare luxury to have it you can bring in an entire second team of players and have them be good enough to outplay the other teams starters and extend leads and finish games so your starters can sit out the entire fourth quarter. For a team that has starters of Lebron, Wade, and Bosh thats just not fair.

Honestly Lebron needs to stay put. Pat gets it freaking done.

Hey YouKnowHoops,
In terms of your last point. It does NOT make much sense to me that LeBron would want to leave after this season. ...
Against joining a 3rd team (while still in his prime): Doesn't necessarily look good (who else, of the All-Time Greats, has ever done this? ... on the other hand, were he to pull it off, the success would "forgive a lot of sins" and look great on his resume); you get immediate chemistry issues (though he's so complete/flexible/intelligent this would be much less of a challenge than for most big stars); even if the chemistry is good, putting together a relatively-complete squad (1-8 thru 10), good enough to really compete for the Chip, usually takes more than a year (or two).

Against leaving the Heat: The team is set up to at least challenge for the ECF and the Chip for the forseeable future (with him as the centerpiece; and so many specialist other pieces); he (as part of the big 3) promised a number of more Chips (or at least competing seriously for them) and walking away after 3 Chips wouldn't sit nearly as well with the fans remembering the promise of lots more. Riles: he's doing a phenomenal job maintaining a near-complete package withwhich to surround him. He acknowledges that he pays serious attention to NBA history and that he wants to be the best ever and recognized as such. Under such circumstances, the way safe bet is to stick with what's working extremely-well for him (both team/Chip - wise; and individually .. MVP-class seasons). And because of this last consideration, I don't think any other team "out-bidding" Miami will change his mind (he's making plenty; he'll continue to with the Heat; and if he doesn't blow it all foolishly, he'll be set for life.)

If they don't get derailed by the injury bug; AND with a "first-round" "bye"; they should be strong favorites to keep making at least the ECFs this year and beyond. I don't believe he'll walk away from that.

Hawkeye15
11-22-2013, 06:04 PM
actual question for Heat fans. How much does their second unit player together? Meaning, do they always have LeBron, Wade, or Bosh in?

2-ONE-5
11-22-2013, 06:14 PM
That unit could beat the 76ers

hahaha their STARTING unit couldnt beat us

2-ONE-5
11-22-2013, 06:14 PM
.

Pablonovi
11-22-2013, 06:51 PM
hahaha their STARTING unit couldnt beat us

Say what?

P.S. Oh wait, you're referring to earlier in the season, right? To say the least: the Heat are playing a little better now. The "rematch" will probably turn out much differently.

Lakeshow24KB
11-22-2013, 06:55 PM
Thats because the lakers starters are so bad.

Lol this is true

Pablonovi
11-22-2013, 06:58 PM
actual question for Heat fans. How much does their second unit player together? Meaning, do they always have LeBron, Wade, or Bosh in?

Hey Hawk,
I am a fan of the Heat (some might want to call me a band-wagoner; I love quality play and players regardless, even if they're not Lakers). I've watched most of their games so far. I think the answer is clearly a two part one:

1) Earliest in the season the 1st unit wasn't clicking/dominating, THEN, LeBron (or, less so, others) was on the floor a good deal with the 2nd unit;

2) More Recently: the 1st unit has been clicking big time, building good leads. Meanwhile, the 2nd unit has gotten better in a number of ways. This combination has allowed the 2nd unit to at least hold its own vs most opponents (regardless of who they have on the floor then); and led to a definite decrease in that 2nd unit being "aided" by LeBron or others from the 1st. Spo has adjusted to this shift quite well.

The result is not only are they winning, but the starters are getting lots of rest; a particularly important plus for the 2nd of b2b's; and a general BIG plus for later in the season and the playoffs (if the current trend continues). Additionally, with the increased confidence in the subs, the 1st unit guys can play more intensely, thus better.

Definitely seriously scare-y for the rest of the league.

MTar786
11-22-2013, 08:03 PM
miami had the best bench last year, and now they have an even better bench this year. its like unfair how stacked this team is lol

honestly they are under achieving. that says a lot for a team that stacked that has had success already.

Dade County
11-22-2013, 08:35 PM
miami had the best bench last year, and now they have an even better bench this year. its like unfair how stacked this team is lol

honestly they are under achieving. that says a lot for a team that stacked that has had success already.

I somewhat agree... Stern/the script holds them back a lot.

Tony_Starks
11-22-2013, 08:58 PM
Do they repeat in your opinion if none gets hurt?

If key players from the bench like Ray or Battier get hurt? No way. We all saw what those guys did last year in the playoffs. The loss of Miller is a big deal but Lewis has looked pretty good so far so he can compensate.

But my thing is: MIA's bench versus the Bucks starters? MIA's bench versus Utahs starters? Versus Bobcats starters? Boston? Anytime your bench is better than several teams starting lineups it's easily the best IMO...

IversonIsKrazy
11-22-2013, 09:45 PM
Spurs, Clips, Nugz all got better imo. Spurs is mostly due to the amazing chemistry, and the Genius Pop.

kdspurman
11-22-2013, 10:12 PM
Spurs, Clips, Nugz all got better imo. Spurs is mostly due to the amazing chemistry, and the Genius Pop.

Not sure about Clips thus far, but I've only seen them a few times. Spurs like you said the chemistry is just off the charts. They're playing extremely well thus far.

WadeKobe
11-22-2013, 10:59 PM
Cole is still miserable... So I am not sure.

IKnowHoops
11-23-2013, 12:10 AM
If key players from the bench like Ray or Battier get hurt? No way. We all saw what those guys did last year in the playoffs. The loss of Miller is a big deal but Lewis has looked pretty good so far so he can compensate.

But my thing is: MIA's bench versus the Bucks starters? MIA's bench versus Utahs starters? Versus Bobcats starters? Boston? Anytime your bench is better than several teams starting lineups it's easily the best IMO...

You may be right, but then again, they are a very capable group that is going against starters that have logged more minutes and have already been beat up on by Lebron so they are soft and ready, and the heat Bench is just a solid great shooting team that can run and rotate the ball in the half court and get a drive to the hoop or an open three quite easily.

FlashBolt
11-23-2013, 01:19 AM
Jeremy Lin is the sixth man this year.

SanAntonioSpurs23
11-24-2013, 02:23 AM
Miami is def top 3.

homer in me still says the Spurs

Patty Mills
Manu Ginobili
Marco Bellinelli
Boris Diaw
Jeff Ayers

Pacerlive
11-24-2013, 10:16 AM
Based on name sake they do but efficiency differential says these teams have the best bench.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/14/7/diffeff/1-1

IKnowHoops
11-24-2013, 03:31 PM
Based on name sake they do but efficiency differential says these teams have the best bench.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/14/7/diffeff/1-1

The Heat can shoot and they only take good shots. Notice the Bench fg%, .500. Next closest is .475 and .459. Now I realize some of that high percentage comes with playing with Lebron. His best pass is his drive to the basket and kick out for open three. It seems like he makes that pass more consistently than any player in the league.

Alayla
11-24-2013, 05:46 PM
That unit could beat the 76ers

I dont know about that

Alayla
11-24-2013, 05:49 PM
That unit could beat the 76ers

Hmm idk about that

2-ONE-5
11-24-2013, 06:08 PM
Hmm idk about that

lol i already said on another page Miamis starters couldnt even beat us

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 02:32 PM
Spurs, Clips, Nugz all got better imo. Spurs is mostly due to the amazing chemistry, and the Genius Pop.

Hey iversonIsKrazy,
Speaking of Pop, have we had a thread about what it is about him and what he does that has made his teams so incredibly, consistently great for so long?

Sure having DRob and then Timmy is a big part; but not, by a long shot all of the explanation.

blahblahyoutoo
11-25-2013, 03:10 PM
our second unit would make playoffs in the east, LOL.

Heatcheck
11-25-2013, 03:19 PM
I think it might very well be, I know I enjoy watching them when they play together at the end of the game. they re mostly very smart players, Cole is coming along nicely, and his speed on both sides is a big plus. lewis looks good driving and passing and is actually trying (I emphasize trying) to get boards, he needs to get a bit more consistent with his shot to really replace miller though. Beasley concerns me a bit because its just score with him, hes got this Dominique "if they passed it to me, they must want me to shoot it" vibe going, if Spo and James are ok with that then whatever. ray is holding up great, and Andersen is contributing more. id like to see more roger mason though.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 04:56 PM
Kind of reminds me of the UCLA Bruins back when. They had the best team in the country; except their freshman team was even better than them. (Main reason, Lew Alcindor (KAJ) was a freshman, and freshmen were not eligible then to play on the vasity.)

They might be able to outrank half the East and Utah right now; but especially as a number of those teams gets serious about tanking.

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 04:58 PM
I think it might very well be, I know I enjoy watching them when they play together at the end of the game. they re mostly very smart players, Cole is coming along nicely, and his speed on both sides is a big plus. lewis looks good driving and passing and is actually trying (I emphasize trying) to get boards, he needs to get a bit more consistent with his shot to really replace miller though. Beasley concerns me a bit because its just score with him, hes got this Dominique "if they passed it to me, they must want me to shoot it" vibe going, if Spo and James are ok with that then whatever. ray is holding up great, and Andersen is contributing more. id like to see more roger mason though.

Hey Heatcheck,
It seems to me that most of the Great teams have had a 2nd Unit guy who's prime function was simply to "fill it up". Like the Pistons' Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson; and many others. IF he can consistently do it, and so far so good, then nobody on the team, much less Spo and LBJ are going to have anything to say except "Right On!"

blahblahyoutoo
11-25-2013, 05:21 PM
actual question for Heat fans. How much does their second unit player together? Meaning, do they always have LeBron, Wade, or Bosh in?

unless it's a blowout, at least one of the big 3 is usually on the court.

Heatcheck
11-25-2013, 06:05 PM
Hey Heatcheck,
It seems to me that most of the Great teams have had a 2nd Unit guy who's prime function was simply to "fill it up". Like the Pistons' Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson; and many others. IF he can consistently do it, and so far so good, then nobody on the team, much less Spo and LBJ are going to have anything to say except "Right On!"

this is true. hard to argue with it while its working.

2-ONE-5
11-25-2013, 06:27 PM
their bench never plays as a unit and if they did they would not be as good as most seem to think

Pablonovi
11-25-2013, 07:05 PM
their bench never plays as a unit and if they did they would not be as good as most seem to think

Hey 2-ONE-5,
Haven't you been watching some of the most recent games? I have, and, iirc, this is exactly what they are doing. They pass them a good lead and they've been, at least, holding onto them, and in some cases keeping the 1st unit guys parked (and resting!) on the bench.

2-ONE-5
11-25-2013, 11:12 PM
holding onto a 15-20 point lead isnt excactly hard to do

IKnowHoops
11-26-2013, 02:37 AM
holding onto a 15-20 point lead isnt excactly hard to do

To get a 10 point lead with the entire fourth quarter to play, and stretch it 15 or 20 and keep the starters out for the entire 4th quarter is what they did in back to back games. There taking leads and extending them and outplaying the other teams starters.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2013, 11:04 AM
so doing it twice in a row makes them the best bench? no. Also the other teams arent playing all 5 starters to start the 4th quarter

Heatcheck
11-26-2013, 12:51 PM
so doing it twice in a row makes them the best bench? no. Also the other teams arent playing all 5 starters to start the 4th quarter

oh ok, they don't play against the other teams starting five in the first half so what they do as a unit is irrelevant, and some other team obviously has a better second unit because of this.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2013, 12:56 PM
show me where i said that? your boy is the onee trying to tell me the are building 10 point leads to open the 4th on the other teams starting 5 when thats simply not true

therealwd27
11-26-2013, 01:10 PM
show me where i said that? your boy is the onee trying to tell me the are building 10 point leads to open the 4th on the other teams starting 5 when thats simply not true

Not sure what your trying to say..but to be able to maintain a lead and not squander it is pretty significant and to extend it. And they are the only bench in the NBA that shoot 50% pretty good for a bench. 37 points per game.

Heatcheck
11-26-2013, 01:10 PM
show me where i said that? your boy is the onee trying to tell me the are building 10 point leads to open the 4th on the other teams starting 5 when thats simply not true

he said starters, not the starting five. the other team is still trying to win the game, it would be kind of dumb to assume theyd just give up that early and play straight bench players.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2013, 01:33 PM
what is the difference between a teams starters and starting 5? almost every NBA team takes 2-3 starters out to begin the 4th to get fresh for the stretch run of the game. this is why i dont engage with you bandwagon heat fans

EO1984
11-26-2013, 01:45 PM
This is a clown question

Pacers have the best 2nd unit. Its so good that C. Copeland has a hard time touching the floor. Its so good that Granger(if he ever comes back) may only get 10-15 min off the bench.

PG. CJ Watson/D. Sloan
SG. O. Johnson
SF. Copeland/S. HILL/Granger
PF. Scola/Copeland
C. Mahinmi

Best record in the NBA, Best all around team. Heat "fans" need to know their place.

kdspurman
11-26-2013, 01:47 PM
he said starters, not the starting five. the other team is still trying to win the game, it would be kind of dumb to assume theyd just give up that early and play straight bench players.

SA goes long stretches playing only bench players without any starter and they are trying to win and usually buy the starters plenty of time to rest. No one is playing over 30 minutes, (Parker is @ 29.9) and 11 guys are all playing at least 12 minutes per game. All depends on the opponent

Heatcheck
11-26-2013, 02:15 PM
what is the difference between a teams starters and starting 5? almost every NBA team takes 2-3 starters out to begin the 4th to get fresh for the stretch run of the game. this is why i dont engage with you bandwagon heat fans

that one means there are starters on the court, the other means all the starters are on the court. not very bright are you?

Heatcheck
11-26-2013, 02:19 PM
SA goes long stretches playing only bench players without any starter and they are trying to win and usually buy the starters plenty of time to rest. No one is playing over 30 minutes, (Parker is @ 29.9) and 11 guys are all playing at least 12 minutes per game. All depends on the opponent

shows what a good FO can do for you. youd think them having to play their starters limited minutes due to age and injuries would have them limping into the playoffs as a bottom seed, but theyre up there every year.

2-ONE-5
11-26-2013, 02:23 PM
This is a clown question

Pacers have the best 2nd unit. Its so good that C. Copeland has a hard time touching the floor. Its so good that Granger(if he ever comes back) may only get 10-15 min off the bench.

PG. CJ Watson/D. Sloan
SG. O. Johnson
SF. Copeland/S. HILL/Granger
PF. Scola/Copeland
C. Mahinmi

Best record in the NBA, Best all around team. Heat "fans" need to know their place.

dude you have Orlando Johnson and Copeland on your bench its not the best. Im aware of what Copeland is doing from deep right now but it wont continue at this rate. Pretty funny saying the 2x defending champs need to know their place...


that one means there are starters on the court, the other means all the starters are on the court. not very bright are you?

yea bcuz you made that really clear in the other post. oh wait...

therealwd27
11-26-2013, 02:37 PM
37 points per game on 50% shooting I'll take it.

DreamShaker
11-26-2013, 06:39 PM
I am not saying it is the best, but I really like the Rockets bench.

Lin/Brooks
Garcia
Casspi
Montejunas
Asik

Both Lin and Asik would start on a bunch of teams, and Casspi has been huge. Garcia is struggling with his shooting, but has been playing big on D and shot lights out last year and during the early part of this year. Brooks scored 26 points the other night after barely playing all year, and has been huge with his hustle if he's not scoring. D-Mo has been hit and miss, but has also had some big moments and is improving. Now that Asik has accepted a smaller role since T-Jones broke out, he allows almost equal rim protection and rebounding when Howard is out. Lin is a 6th man candidate. He has improved his shooting and decision making, and is playing harder on D, although still weaker on that end. Last night the bench plus Beverly put up a huge ralley in the 4th to beat the Grizz. Brooks bruised a muscle a Chandler came in as the closer, but without Jones, Howard, and Harden out for the entire 4th, it was a huge boost to the team.

ATX
11-26-2013, 08:16 PM
This is a clown question

Pacers have the best 2nd unit. Its so good that C. Copeland has a hard time touching the floor. Its so good that Granger(if he ever comes back) may only get 10-15 min off the bench.

PG. CJ Watson/D. Sloan
SG. O. Johnson
SF. Copeland/S. HILL/Granger
PF. Scola/Copeland
C. Mahinmi

Best record in the NBA, Best all around team. Heat "fans" need to know their place.

umm, ok?

Their place? How about B2B defending NBA Champions? I think it's the other way around. I'm not disrespecting Indiana whatsoever, and their start is impressive…Clearly the only obstacle for Miami. They may even win the #1 seed in the East, but until they get by the HEAT in a 7 game series…Well…The Heat's "Place" is 1st.

b-eazy19
11-26-2013, 09:20 PM
Jordan Farmar, Nick Young, Xavier Henry, Jordan Hill, Chris Kaman

justinnum1
11-26-2013, 10:57 PM
This is a clown question

Pacers have the best 2nd unit. Its so good that C. Copeland has a hard time touching the floor. Its so good that Granger(if he ever comes back) may only get 10-15 min off the bench.

PG. CJ Watson/D. Sloan
SG. O. Johnson
SF. Copeland/S. HILL/Granger
PF. Scola/Copeland
C. Mahinmi

Best record in the NBA, Best all around team. Heat "fans" need to know their place.


umm, ok?

Their place? How about B2B defending NBA Champions? I think it's the other way around. I'm not disrespecting Indiana whatsoever, and their start is impressive…Clearly the only obstacle for Miami. They may even win the #1 seed in the East, but until they get by the HEAT in a 7 game series…Well…The Heat's "Place" is 1st.

:burn:

IKnowHoops
11-27-2013, 02:16 AM
show me where i said that? your boy is the onee trying to tell me the are building 10 point leads to open the 4th on the other teams starting 5 when thats simply not true

It is true bran. Look at the 4th quarter of the 1st game against the magic. They blew the starters off the court in the 4th. So it is true at least in that game and the game after. Like two weeks ago. It simply is true. If you didn't watch don't make guessing comments.

IKnowHoops
11-27-2013, 02:18 AM
their bench never plays as a unit and if they did they would not be as good as most seem to think

Again, this is how I know you have no idea what you are talking about and your just hating. Carry on. Do you, but your dead --- wrong.

IKnowHoops
11-27-2013, 02:23 AM
what is the difference between a teams starters and starting 5? almost every NBA team takes 2-3 starters out to begin the 4th to get fresh for the stretch run of the game. this is why i dont engage with you bandwagon heat fans

You should just stop commenting on games you didn't watch. Your just spewing anything you can, grasping at straws that your not even sure are there. Know what your talking about before you speak. I watched a bunch of heat games, and the two I saw in a row, I saw the Heat bench run other teams starters off the court. Whether it was all five starters or 4 starters and a bench guy, they ran them off the court. Go watch the film before you comment again so you don't sound idiotic, uninformed, and ridiculous..

LoveMeOrHateMe
11-27-2013, 02:28 AM
Lakers bench is a killer right now

IKnowHoops
11-27-2013, 02:30 AM
Lakers bench is a killer right now


This is true. Maybe better than there starters. The lakers are one big second team.

xabial
11-27-2013, 02:50 AM
Lakers bench is a killer right now

As a laker fan don't you find that wierd? During the Lakers prime championship years the bench was always a question. Now its reversed :laugh2:

Heatcheck
11-27-2013, 10:23 AM
You should just stop commenting on games you didn't watch. Your just spewing anything you can, grasping at straws that your not even sure are there. Know what your talking about before you speak. I watched a bunch of heat games, and the two I saw in a row, I saw the Heat bench run other teams starters off the court. Whether it was all five starters or 4 starters and a bench guy, they ran them off the court. Go watch the film before you comment again so you don't sound idiotic, uninformed, and ridiculous..

take it easy, they cant control themselves during that time of the month

Pablonovi
11-28-2013, 02:53 AM
A general comment about this thread followed by a suggestion.
General comment:
There have been a ton of worthy posts here; making very good cases for the 2nd team of a number of squads.
Perhaps, if everyone was thinking along the lines of an OP that asked:
What do you propose as a Top 5 (rather than Top 1) 2nd team?

perhaps then, a lot of the heat (no pun intended) would come off our responses to each other.

In any event, this is a secondary point, seeing as it's about 2nd teams; and it is way early in the season. There's no one undeniably correct answer. We could all chill a tiny bit more and get along ALOT better; why not?

Suggestion:
Let's take it a bit easier with each other. We are all NBA fans, so we have more that unites us than that divides us. It's a great sport (some would say the best; I would too). These are THE best 30 b-ball teams AND THE best 400-500 players WITH THE best coaches ... in the world. Let's enjoy them all together, shall we?

3RDASYSTEM
11-28-2013, 03:46 AM
Im aware. But they are taking 16 more shots per game then the Heat bench. They are at 43% FG . They are taking more shots but are not as efficient as the Heat bench

playing a MIKE D run and fun gun will result in more attempts per game for most part

but I guess the efficient card trumps all in psd land

the lakers rely on the bench way more than a lineup with 3 all stars starting in it or do you agree to disagree? who is in the lakers lineup that is a allstar this year? LA is relying on its bench just to win games this year for most part it seems

Pablonovi
11-28-2013, 05:02 PM
As a laker fan don't you find that wierd? During the Lakers prime championship years the bench was always a question. Now its reversed :laugh2:

Hey xabial,
It is kind of mind boggling. Not just in terms of the Lakers; but when, ever, has a 2nd unit been as close to as good as the 1st unit as this one?

At the very beginning of the season, I noticed this lack-of-a-gap between the two units and between virtually all of the 10 main rotation guys. So, I suggested that, for the good of the team, until Kobe is back, that:
1) "Equal" Minutes: All 10 or so players get relatively equal minutes (22 minutes a game on average);
but that this would be adjusted:
2) Game by game adjustments: depending on the opponent; and
3) Within each game adjustments: depending on both the at-that-moment match-ups AND how well/poor each of the Lakers was actually playing.

Still makes sense to me; and seems to not be far off from what is in fact actually taking place.

Of course, you need a #1 for a whole number of reasons. But, till Kobe is back; this multiplicity of interchangeable parts/rotations is a whole lotta fun to watch (and, I imagine for MDA, to orchestrate).

The TEAM-work and unselfishness is glorious to behold.

beliges
11-28-2013, 06:10 PM
Lakers bench is a killer right now

As a laker fan don't you find that wierd? During the Lakers prime championship years the bench was always a question. Now its reversed :laugh2:

Lakers is only good because their starting 5 is awful. Compared to that any bench seems good

Chrisclover
11-29-2013, 01:45 AM
You ruled out MCW?
That unit could beat the 76ers

Chrisclover
11-29-2013, 01:48 AM
Seems like Oden just showed up in the pre season.Has he played in the regular season so far ?
Beasley has been very efficient and Rashard Lewis seems to be very healthy finally. Ray Allen is always ready and doesn't seem to be slowing down at all.

That being said I love our 2nd unit. Will be huge for us in playoffs especially if Oden can provide 10mpg

Chrisclover
11-29-2013, 01:50 AM
Pacers is the best in my mind

It's a nasty bench. A case could easily be made for the best. Clippers is up there just off the top of my head.

Chrisclover
11-29-2013, 01:55 AM
Some dudes are just insane in D'antoni 'system ,I see X Henry is somewhat like a linsanity. Lol

Lol your joking right Denver? Lakers?

Smh

Lakers are leading the NBA in Bench points per game.

Pablonovi
11-29-2013, 11:06 AM
Some dudes are just insane in D'antoni 'system ,I see X Henry is somewhat like a linsanity. Lol

Hey Chrisclever,
Maybe you just got insanity on your mind???

Chrisclover
11-29-2013, 12:07 PM
I meant "somewhat ",not "exactly ".You certainly didnt noticed his occasionally stunning performance

Some dudes are just insane in D'antoni 'system ,I see X Henry is somewhat like a linsanity. Lol

Hey Chrisclever,
Maybe you just got insanity on your mind???

JeremiahWing
11-29-2013, 12:58 PM
Indiana is gonna blow them out in the ECF.

therealwd27
11-29-2013, 01:32 PM
Indiana is gonna blow them out in the ECF.

Lol bet you 2 years no PSD they don't beat heat in finals.

therealwd27
11-29-2013, 01:33 PM
Seems like Oden just showed up in the pre season.Has he played in the regular season so far ?

No he hasn't played...just continuing to lose weight and get in shape. We haven't needed him yet anyways. Long term project

TylerSL
11-29-2013, 01:55 PM
no they dont but they have a very good second unit that perfectly compliments each other and compliments the starting unit as well. Miami has the perfect cast of players for the team they are. The team has such great chemistry and flow that everyone succeeds. The second unit plays so well because of this, making them each better individuals. They are not the best bench in the NBA, but probably back-end top 5, or close to top 5.

Pablonovi
11-29-2013, 07:13 PM
I meant "somewhat ",not "exactly ".You certainly didnt noticed his occasionally stunning performance

Hey Chrisclever,
I did realize that you did NOT mean "exactly"; but, instead, were making an interesting (and perhaps truly) correct COMPARISON.

My BAD.

I tried to joke around with you about different examples of insanity: Linsanity, Zaaaavieinrsanity; with the result (jokingly) being that you were seeing insanity everywhere. I guess my joke sucked ! (Maybe the real problem is with me, hehe, "insane in the membrane" ... pabloinsanity. This might explain all these voices in my head!)

Sorry.
Pablo

Chrisclover
11-29-2013, 09:49 PM
fine.the problem is also with me .I always get carried away by some amazing performance ,for instance, those of Lin, MCW and Henry. haha

I meant "somewhat ",not "exactly ".You certainly didnt noticed his occasionally stunning performance

Hey Chrisclever,
I did realize that you did NOT mean "exactly"; but, instead, were making an interesting (and perhaps truly) correct COMPARISON.

My BAD.

I tried to joke around with you about different examples of insanity: Linsanity, Zaaaavieinrsanity; with the result (jokingly) being that you were seeing insanity everywhere. I guess my joke sucked ! (Maybe the real problem is with me, hehe, "insane in the membrane" ... pabloinsanity. This might explain all these voices in my head!)

Sorry.
Pablo

Pablonovi
11-30-2013, 02:42 PM
fine.the problem is also with me .I always get carried away by some amazing performance ,for instance, those of Lin, MCW and Henry. haha

:clap::cheers::clap: