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FlashBolt
11-16-2013, 05:53 PM
Knowing both of them at their prime, which will you choose?

bagwell368
11-16-2013, 05:56 PM
CP3. Where is the poll?

Blitzace137
11-16-2013, 06:00 PM
Paul, more of a complete player.

Hulk6
11-16-2013, 06:06 PM
unless i missed the year where cp3 lead the hornets to the finals, im going with AI

Hulk6
11-16-2013, 06:07 PM
Paul, more of a complete player.

funny because only thing that cp3 has over AI is assists. AI more points, rebounds, steals

EL_MACHETE
11-16-2013, 06:09 PM
Allen Iverson

Yankeefan213
11-16-2013, 06:12 PM
Iverson. Say what you want about him but he played as hard as anyone. Always gave 110%

mike_noodles
11-16-2013, 06:14 PM
This is tough, because on one hand you have the great Chris Paul, but on the other hand you have "practice". And I love practice.

Goose17
11-16-2013, 06:14 PM
CP3.

I regard him as one of the most well rounded point guards in the history of the league.

Chronz
11-16-2013, 06:17 PM
Unless you can promise me that AI will play well with others throughout his career, its not even debatable who you would rather build a team around. The guy whos proven capable of spearheading an elite offense and can actually defend his position.

Now why didn't AI defer more in his youth? Lack of teammates or lack of teamwork?

Gators123
11-16-2013, 06:28 PM
Cp3.

Bruno
11-16-2013, 06:31 PM
Paul.

xxplayerxx23
11-16-2013, 06:34 PM
Paul easy. I loved iverson but Paul is the more rounded and more efficient player

FOBolous
11-16-2013, 06:35 PM
CP3 is the better leader so i'll go with CP3

Chronz
11-16-2013, 06:36 PM
oh and INB4 you know who........

Hawkeye15
11-16-2013, 06:55 PM
Paul

COOLbeans
11-16-2013, 06:58 PM
Allen Iverson 100 Xs

Swashcuff
11-16-2013, 07:05 PM
Unless you can promise me that AI will play well with others throughout his career, its not even debatable who you would rather build a team around. The guy whos proven capable of spearheading an elite offense and can actually defend his position.

Now why didn't AI defer more in his youth? Lack of teammates or lack of teamwork?

Coaching, support, system and FO.

I mean really any elite offensive player who played with the type of casts A.I. played with would average 20+ FGA comfortable. Even the CP3s and Steve Nash's of the world.

I mean when you have one player who was at least an average offensive player on your team other than yourself you really don't have much of a choice.

As for who I'd pic I'd say CP3 is the better/more talented player but A.I. was just a warrior and my irrational love for him makes it tough for me to go against him for a plethora of reasons. So I'd draft A.I. because of the simple fact that I'm stupidly in love with the man. :shrug:

DillyDill
11-16-2013, 07:06 PM
CP3 without a doubt..your guaranteed to have your whole team involved with him running the show

jon32
11-16-2013, 07:12 PM
Hmm.....like DillyDill said CP3 cuz your whole team is involved.......but AI in his prime could basically outscore that CP3 led team.

If I had to pick a player to win 1 game for me Id go Iverson.....but in this case were drafting id prob go Paul

bholly
11-16-2013, 07:22 PM
If I was making a team's decisions I'd take AI, but that's largely homerism and the fact that I'd willingly take the less smart option for a chance to see if I could get him to a title.

If I was completely objective and didn't love AI, it'd be CP3.

PhillyFaninLA
11-16-2013, 07:22 PM
funny because only thing that cp3 has over AI is assists. AI more points, rebounds, steals


Iverson was a SG most of his career so of course the PG has more assits

PhillyFaninLA
11-16-2013, 07:27 PM
To those of you that say not Iverson because its a team game....when played with other stars in allstar games and the Olympics he played unselfishly and was willing to concede the shot....no team he played did he have other guys that were reliable scores or shooters....Iverson did what had to be done to win

You can call me bias (and I'm to a degree) but objectively look at his Olympics and Allstar games (using eyes not stats) and you saw what he could have been if he had better offensive players around him...also in regards to his assists, he had a ton of passes that led to missed shots.....Iverson is special, CP3 is very good

BenFrank
11-16-2013, 07:35 PM
Paul will be the popular pic, because people Hate Iverson for there own personal reason's.. but if u put MVP A.I. on the current Clippers squad, that team would go to the conference Finals off his heart alone.. so ummm yea, A.I. for me

Guppyfighter
11-16-2013, 07:43 PM
Paul will be the popular pic, because people Hate Iverson for there own personal reason's.. but if u put MVP A.I. on the current Clippers squad, that team would go to the conference Finals off his heart alone.. so ummm yea, A.I. for me

LOL

Okay

Hulk6
11-16-2013, 07:53 PM
LOL

Okay

youre saying with prime AI instead of paul last year the clips dont make WCF? dont be a clown dude

More-Than-Most
11-16-2013, 08:01 PM
Not a question... everyone should say CP3 without a 2nd thought. Its not close

Guppyfighter
11-16-2013, 08:03 PM
youre saying with prime AI instead of paul last year the clips dont make WCF? dont be a clown dude

Yes. In fact, they get knocked out in five games instead of six. They lose game one now instead of winning it.

tredigs
11-16-2013, 08:06 PM
youre saying with prime AI instead of paul last year the clips dont make WCF? dont be a clown dude
Are Crawford, Billups, Deandre Jordan and Griffin still ******** the bed in the playoffs in this scenario? Because if so, they're still losing in the 1st round. Paul and Matt Barnes were the only players that decided to show up for them.

Hulk6
11-16-2013, 08:23 PM
Are Crawford, Billups, Deandre Jordan and Griffin still ******** the bed in the playoffs in this scenario? Because if so, they're still losing in the 1st round. Paul and Matt Barnes were the only players that decided to show up for them.

considering in 01 AI teammates were eric snow, kevin ollie, a washed up mutombo, and aaron mckie. i would take those players at 50% over any of the players i mentioned at 100%

2-ONE-5
11-16-2013, 08:25 PM
AI no doubt about it. When Cp3 goes to the finals or wins an MVP i will re-consider.

bholly
11-16-2013, 08:33 PM
considering in 01 AI teammates were eric snow, kevin ollie, a washed up mutombo, and aaron mckie. i would take those players at 50% over any of the players i mentioned at 100%

I think you mean 'Defensive Player of the Year Mutombo' and 'Sixth Man of the Year Aaron McKie'.

tredigs
11-16-2013, 08:41 PM
CP3 has spent his career in the West. AI made it to the finals on a great defensive team when he played in Division II. I'm not willing to overlook context.

2-ONE-5
11-16-2013, 08:45 PM
you are under rating the east back then. way better than it has been in recent years

b@llhog24
11-16-2013, 08:48 PM
oh and INB4 you know who........

Lol.

Guppyfighter
11-16-2013, 08:49 PM
you are under rating the east back then. way better than it has been in recent years

Every team in the East that year was a first round exit in the West. Seven of Nine teams in the West took up the top eight spots in the SRS.


Plus, do you remember how badly officiated the Sixers-Bucks series was. Refs robbed the Bucks.

b@llhog24
11-16-2013, 08:49 PM
Coaching, support, system and FO.

I mean really any elite offensive player who played with the type of casts A.I. played with would average 20+ FGA comfortable. Even the CP3s and Steve Nash's of the world.

I mean when you have one player who was at least an average offensive player on your team other than yourself you really don't have much of a choice.

As for who I'd pic I'd say CP3 is the better/more talented player but A.I. was just a warrior and my irrational love for him makes it tough for me to go against him for a plethora of reasons. So I'd draft A.I. because of the simple fact that I'm stupidly in love with the man. :shrug:

Don't worry everybody has a player like that.

TheMightyHumph
11-16-2013, 09:03 PM
funny because only thing that cp3 has over AI is assists. AI more points, rebounds, steals

The question isn't who you would chose for a fantasy league.

TheMightyHumph
11-16-2013, 09:06 PM
you are under rating the east back then. way better than it has been in recent years

Really? It took Sixers 7 games (and missed last second shots) to get passed the Raptors and the Bucks.

dhopisthename
11-16-2013, 09:19 PM
funny because only thing that cp3 has over AI is assists. AI more points, rebounds, steals
thats not true. paul on average gets 1 more rebound, gets about .4 more steals, averages 1 less turnover. really all iverson has on paul is scoring and considering how efficient paul is and how inefficient Ai was its hard to justify taking him over paul. .

TheMightyHumph
11-16-2013, 09:19 PM
funny because only thing that cp3 has over AI is assists. AI more points, rebounds, steals

Don't wanna mention shooting percentages, turnovers, the ability to make his teammates better. or defense?

Hellcrooner
11-16-2013, 09:55 PM
both of them are douchebags but one of them actually goes to practice and tries to get teamates involved.

it would only take me a fraction of a second to decide .

Hellcrooner
11-16-2013, 09:59 PM
To those of you that say not Iverson because its a team game....when played with other stars in allstar games and the Olympics he played unselfishly and was willing to concede the shot....no team he played did he have other guys that were reliable scores or shooters....Iverson did what had to be done to win

You can call me bias (and I'm to a degree) but objectively look at his Olympics and Allstar games (using eyes not stats) and you saw what he could have been if he had better offensive players around him...also in regards to his assists, he had a ton of passes that led to missed shots.....Iverson is special, CP3 is very good

lol you really DO NOT want to bring up iversons team usa.
:laugh:

Hawkeye15
11-16-2013, 10:51 PM
Coaching, support, system and FO.

I mean really any elite offensive player who played with the type of casts A.I. played with would average 20+ FGA comfortable. Even the CP3s and Steve Nash's of the world.

I mean when you have one player who was at least an average offensive player on your team other than yourself you really don't have much of a choice.

As for who I'd pic I'd say CP3 is the better/more talented player but A.I. was just a warrior and my irrational love for him makes it tough for me to go against him for a plethora of reasons. So I'd draft A.I. because of the simple fact that I'm stupidly in love with the man. :shrug:

Iverson is seriously your kryponite haha.

Swashcuff
11-16-2013, 10:51 PM
lol you really DO NOT want to bring up iversons team usa.
:laugh:

If we are speaking solely of A.I. why not? He was lauded by the staff and players for his willingness to play in a term set up and after TD he was probably the US's 2nd best player.

Swashcuff
11-16-2013, 10:51 PM
Iverson is seriously your kryponite haha.

As Bird is yours lol

Hawkeye15
11-16-2013, 10:52 PM
youre saying with prime AI instead of paul last year the clips dont make WCF? dont be a clown dude

no, they do not. Unfortunately for CP3, he plays in a competitive conference, something AI didn't do until being traded to Denver.

Hawkeye15
11-16-2013, 10:53 PM
As Bird is yours lol

to some degree, sure. Where do you rank Larry?

bagwell368
11-16-2013, 10:59 PM
funny because only thing that cp3 has over AI is assists. AI more points, rebounds, steals

So, you don't care about how many MORE shots he had to take to score more points? AI is totally inferior to Chris Paul, even more so off the the floor where he was a complete jack off.

yankeefan54
11-16-2013, 11:03 PM
Iverson.

Swashcuff
11-16-2013, 11:09 PM
to some degree, sure. Where do you rank Larry?

Top 7-8 still number 1 SF.

AlexTmz2
11-16-2013, 11:32 PM
Ai

Jets012
11-17-2013, 12:13 AM
Now I remember the reason why I stopped posting in the forum. The fact that even 35% of you would take Iverson is a joke. And the reasons most of you are listing are just terrible. I'd take Paul over any Point Guard in his prime. Only guy I'd probably take over him is Magic.

ghettosean
11-17-2013, 12:22 AM
Unless you can promise me that AI will play well with others throughout his career, its not even debatable who you would rather build a team around. The guy whos proven capable of spearheading an elite offense and can actually defend his position.

Now why didn't AI defer more in his youth? Lack of teammates or lack of teamwork?




Coaching, support, system and FO.

I mean really any elite offensive player who played with the type of casts A.I. played with would average 20+ FGA comfortable. Even the CP3s and Steve Nash's of the world.

I mean when you have one player who was at least an average offensive player on your team other than yourself you really don't have much of a choice.

As for who I'd pic I'd say CP3 is the better/more talented player but A.I. was just a warrior and my irrational love for him makes it tough for me to go against him for a plethora of reasons. So I'd draft A.I. because of the simple fact that I'm stupidly in love with the man. :shrug:

All I can say about A.I's prime is that he took a talentless 76er squad with pretty much there 2nd best player being and old Dikembe Motumbo to the finals. Cp3 has an extremley talented team right now better than anything Iverson ever had and I don't see him making it to the finals this year... I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

Still a tough pick though but I'd choose Iverson no doubt.

meloman1592
11-17-2013, 12:32 AM
Chris Paul Is as great a point guard as I've seen in my lifetime....but im taking AI. Not even gonna second guess it

Hawkeye15
11-17-2013, 12:52 AM
Top 7-8 still number 1 SF.

then I am not on your level when it comes to AI love. You are one of the best posters on this site, a basketball mind I respect, but there is no way I take AI over Paul, career wise, just like I don't take Bird over LeBron, career wise. If LeBron was run over by a truck this moment, he already has the case. Another year or two, there isn't one.

Hawkeye15
11-17-2013, 12:53 AM
All I can say about A.I's prime is that he took a talentless 76er squad with pretty much there 2nd best player being and old Dikembe Motumbo to the finals. Cp3 has an extremley talented team right now better than anything Iverson ever had and I don't see him making it to the finals this year... I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

Still a tough pick though but I'd choose Iverson no doubt.

imagine if Paul got to play in the ****** east of the early 2000's.....

kblo247
11-17-2013, 01:40 AM
The former MVP, league leading scorer, guy who led his team to the finals, guy who played hurt and was a warrior, the non flopper, the better draw, and the guaranteed hall of famer.

AI was better and more impactful in the history of this league than Paul has ever been. Iverson didnt fake being fouled, he initiated it and put his body out there. Iverson was in better shape than Paul, as he didn't need a minute cap, while Paul does and even then he's still never played a full season. Iverson in the playoffs stepped up to his competition, miss me with the but Paul's 20/10 as his opposing PGs are damn near always there when they and their teams beat his *** too. Iverson was the better franchise peace in terms of marketability, ratings, and influence to the culture of the league. Iverson will go down as being better right now because he was just more impactful on the court and to the consumers which both matter for a franchise

alexander_37
11-17-2013, 01:41 AM
I would love to see what AI could do on a talented team :shrug:

So probably AI out of pure curiosity.

kblo247
11-17-2013, 01:42 AM
Chris Paul Is as great a point guard as I've seen in my lifetime....but im taking AI. Not even gonna second guess it

How old are you? He's no Stockton, he's no Kidd in jersey, and has damn sure no Payton when it comes to changing a game and playoff series. He and Nash's Phoenix days are more or less on par, same with Utah Deron, but that's because they were all all star PGs compared to superstar PGs like Stockton, Kidd, and Payton

kblo247
11-17-2013, 01:44 AM
no, they do not. Unfortunately for CP3, he plays in a competitive conference, something AI didn't do until being traded to Denver.

When the clippers couldn't score Iverson wouldve took it on himself. Whatever you want to say about Iverson, he unlike Paul is capable of pushing 30 for a whole series and logging 40 minutes, Paul hasn't shown that. He goes ghost when his playoff teams needing scoring in droughts because he can't carry that load by himself once you take his lobs and shooters away. Opposing PGs play his *** to a wash too damn much, ie Conley, Tony, and Chauncey

Hawkeye15
11-17-2013, 01:59 AM
When the clippers couldn't score Iverson wouldve took it on himself. Whatever you want to say about Iverson, he unlike Paul is capable of pushing 30 for a whole series and logging 40 minutes, Paul hasn't shown that. He goes ghost when his playoff teams needing scoring in droughts because he can't carry that load by himself once you take his lobs and shooters away. Opposing PGs play his *** to a wash too damn much, ie Conley, Tony, and Chauncey

totally disagree

kblo247
11-17-2013, 02:20 AM
totally disagree

Disagree Paul gets washed or played to a marginal net gain in the playoffs by his opposing PGs? Tony, Conley, and Billups are proof of that.

Disagree Paul can't log big minutes, can't drop 30 a night in a series, and is a worse conditioned athlete? AI trumps him there easily

Disagree Paul's teams needed scoring late vs Memphis or vs SAW in 08 when they were up and he didn't force anything? Same happened vs the lakers where he was forcing Ariza and Jack to try and score

IKnowHoops
11-17-2013, 02:31 AM
I would rather build around AI. Never got to see him on a team with elite talent. He did play with Melo but that was at age 32 I think. Chris Paul is amazing no doubt, but Iverson was more talented, and I'd feel like I can harness that talent and improve upon some of his errors.

IKnowHoops
11-17-2013, 02:38 AM
How old are you? He's no Stockton, he's no Kidd in jersey, and has damn sure no Payton when it comes to changing a game and playoff series. He and Nash's Phoenix days are more or less on par, same with Utah Deron, but that's because they were all all star PGs compared to superstar PGs like Stockton, Kidd, and Payton

I'd take Paul over Stockton and Kid easily. I'd have to think more about Gary. Thats tough.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 02:45 AM
I'm not sure that there is anything more entertaining, nor funnier in the NBA world than some ignorant NBA fan making their case for the NBA'S most selfish and least team oriented player, Allen Iverson.

Please continue. It's difficult to find anything more ridiculous than an AI fan in the NBA internet world.

Clippersfan86
11-17-2013, 02:46 AM
Paul is the better player but I'd rather take Iverson honestly. You know even when he plays bad he's going down guns blazing and breaking his body. CP3 paces himself and takes too many nights off for my liking in comparison to Iverson, despite being the smarter, more efficient player.

effen5
11-17-2013, 02:57 AM
AI for me, he's never had an elite team around him but still put up monster numbers. It be scary what Iverson could do on an elite team.

Hawkeye15
11-17-2013, 03:36 AM
Disagree Paul gets washed or played to a marginal net gain in the playoffs by his opposing PGs? Tony, Conley, and Billups are proof of that.

Disagree Paul can't log big minutes, can't drop 30 a night in a series, and is a worse conditioned athlete? AI trumps him there easily

Disagree Paul's teams needed scoring late vs Memphis or vs SAW in 08 when they were up and he didn't force anything? Same happened vs the lakers where he was forcing Ariza and Jack to try and score

I disagree, in that you even have the capability to evaluate effectiveness with your post(s). Paul, despite his team accomplishments, is one of the most effective guards in history. Easily above AI.

Miltstar
11-17-2013, 04:16 AM
I'd take Iverson, there is no stat that accounts for heart. He lead a team of nobodys to the final. Imagine if he had some better shooters around him? CP3 needs to do something in the playoffs for me to even consider him over AI

kblo247
11-17-2013, 04:17 AM
Love is one of the most effective PFs looking at his stats, same with Nash as a pg, but its meaningless if you don't win games, series, and titles. AI for all his faults led a team to a conference title (Paul hasn't got out the second round even when favored), beat the best playoff team in nba history, and was more durable than Paul. If I'm starting a team, I want to win, I want to sell tickets, I want to be broadcast nationally and globally, and I want a guy who will kill himself if necessary by playing hurt and handling big minutes ... That's Iverson

Paul is fragile and no where near as accomplished or important in history. Paul is the nicer personality, but he's far from the more transcendent let alone a tougher athlete

kblo247
11-17-2013, 04:25 AM
I'd take Paul over Stockton and Kid easily. I'd have to think more about Gary. Thats tough.

You would take Paul over Stockton who gives you 20 years of elite pg play hardly ever missing the playoffs, a better defender, does all the little things like setting picks, and helped his team actually get to two finals?

You would take Paul over Kidd? Kidd in early Dallas sure, he was a headache. Phoneix its a push but he had hat messy PR. But. Kidd in NJ was meow impactful than Paul has ever been. Kidd took a team from the lotto to back to back finals, Kidd made Chauncey and the pistons his *****, he was always hovering a triple double! and before the microfracture his defense was on another level from other PGs not named Glove. Kidd controlled games on the glass and unlike Paul he showed up vs elites. Are we ignoring Paul was dominated by Deron n Utah, that the three PGs he has lost a series to out west all out up damn good numbers, negating most his impact? Kidd in jersey was the last superstar pg this league has seen.

I can't say after watching Kidd, Payton, or Stockton that Paul, Nash, Deron, or Rondo are anything more than all stars and all on a close level

PhillyFaninLA
11-17-2013, 05:52 AM
no, they do not. Unfortunately for CP3, he plays in a competitive conference, something AI didn't do until being traded to Denver.

He played as well against the West as he did the east, I don't get your point, your using a point about teams to make a point about an individual. Didn't matter who he played.

PhillyFaninLA
11-17-2013, 05:53 AM
Now I remember the reason why I stopped posting in the forum. The fact that even 35% of you would take Iverson is a joke. And the reasons most of you are listing are just terrible. I'd take Paul over any Point Guard in his prime. Only guy I'd probably take over him is Magic.

Iverson played SG most of his career

Hellcrooner
11-17-2013, 06:24 AM
kblo is a diehard fan of another overated selfish chucker with an abominable ego :rolleyes:

What a surprise.

Well at least the other dude has an amazing work ethic but this one is like.....practice?

kblo247
11-17-2013, 07:52 AM
To start a franchise you consider basketball and business

Basketball
------------
AI led his team to the championship series, and he got a W on the best team in playoff history. He was a multiple time all star, league leading scorer, played more minutes, played more games. He unlike Paul didnt need a minute cap, he didn't need to flop, and he had no problem playing hurt (Paul's never played a full season or logged big playoff series minutes like most superstars for gods sake) as he was simply a better athlete.

Business
-----------
CP3 can kiss his *** there. Iverson teams drew ratings. He was a sellout in opposing cities. He got a reebok deals that pays him till he's a senior citizen for a reason. He influenced mainstream culture by introducing hiphop and tats to the game of basketball on the main stage, and people emulated his look down to the bling and cornrows. He moved merch. He was a prime time attraction and draw that transcended the game.

If you're building a franchise you get the better athlete who accomplished more than Paul has ever proven all while being more durable especially when he's the better commodity to market every ****ing time

sunsfan88
11-17-2013, 08:14 AM
AI.

CP3 certainly has a case but I think a lot of the people saying CP3 in this thread are the young posters who were raised watching CP3 instead of witnessing AI's greatness.

Either way, you can't go wrong. I don't think either player is a lot better than the other.

Swashcuff
11-17-2013, 09:21 AM
I'd take Iverson, there is no stat that accounts for heart. He lead a team of nobodys to the final. Imagine if he had some better shooters around him? CP3 needs to do something in the playoffs for me to even consider him over AI

Preach! :worthy:

kblo247
11-17-2013, 09:50 AM
I don't think people can appreciate AI unless they've seen him in person, and I've seen both. Hell I've seen Paul at least 20 times and never came away with wow like other guys. AI had bad habits but on that court he busted his *** for 48 minutes on a level that few did

MrfadeawayJB
11-17-2013, 10:10 AM
Iverson but I'd do a better job of putting a good team around him

waveycrockett
11-17-2013, 10:26 AM
Prime AI was a top-3 player in a era that included Kobe, Duncan, KG, Shaq, VC, T-Mac all in their primes. The dude was flat out an amazing player. CP3 is the best PG of his era but AI to me played with a passion and skill that not even CP3 embodies. If we are talking about at their peaks then I gotta go with AI. The best offensive player he's ever played with in Philly was Jerry Stackhouse followed by Larry Hughes. That is saying something. The only player I can equate to what AI did in Philly is what LeBron did in Cleveland.

PhillyFaninLA
11-17-2013, 10:33 AM
I don't CP3 sells out opposing arenas.....Away attendance was up when the Iverson Sixers where in town as much as just about any other player.

effen5
11-17-2013, 10:36 AM
I'd take Paul over Stockton and Kid easily. I'd have to think more about Gary. Thats tough.

Really? You'd take Paul over Stockton but for GP you'd have to think about it? Wow.... I'd take all three over cp3 in a heart beat. Hell I'd take mark price over CP3

waveycrockett
11-17-2013, 10:48 AM
CP3 has become so overrated. He has done nothing in this league to put him in the discussion of alot of the guys he is compared to. If any other SUPERstar would have gone out the way he did last year on a team as loaded as the Clips they would have been crucified.

2-ONE-5
11-17-2013, 11:39 AM
Really? It took Sixers 7 games (and missed last second shots) to get passed the Raptors and the Bucks.

you mean the Bucks with Ray Allen, Glen, Robinson, and Sam Cassell who all shot over 46% on the season and avg 20+ ppg? or the Raptors with Vince Carter at his best?


Don't wanna mention shooting percentages, turnovers, the ability to make his teammates better. or defense?

who exacly has Paul made better his #2 option in LA has not improved since he got there.

JiffyMix88
11-17-2013, 12:14 PM
Iverson if I'm selling tickets... Iverson could have packed NO every night cp3 couldn't and can't do that in any small market

MonroeFAN
11-17-2013, 12:21 PM
Iverson, hes one of the best players to have ever played the game. Good question though, certainly not an obvious answer.

TimeForAHoliday
11-17-2013, 12:26 PM
CP3 shrinks in pressure situations while Iverson stepped his game up.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 12:37 PM
Let's not use heart as an excuse. He had heart but clearly not the brain. CP3 has both. He's the better leader, more efficient scorer, smarter player, better passer, and far more manageable player. If my star player didn't want to attend practice, I am damn sure going to be pissed. Also, the East was fairly weak that season.

waveycrockett
11-17-2013, 12:41 PM
Let's not use heart as an excuse. He had heart but clearly not the brain. CP3 has both. He's the better leader, more efficient scorer, smarter player, better passer, and far more manageable player. If my star player didn't want to attend practice, I am damn sure going to be pissed. Also, the East was fairly weak that season.

CP3 was a better passer doesn't mean he has a better brain. AI is twice the athlete Paul is. AI's off the court decision definitely shortened his prime but at his peak it clearly didn't impact him on the court.

ichitownclowni
11-17-2013, 12:46 PM
AI but he is basically my favorite player besides Jordan

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 12:49 PM
Let's not use heart as an excuse. He had heart but clearly not the brain. CP3 has both. He's the better leader, more efficient scorer, smarter player, better passer, and far more manageable player. If my star player didn't want to attend practice, I am damn sure going to be pissed. Also, the East was fairly weak that season.

CP3 was a better passer doesn't mean he has a better brain. AI is twice the athlete Paul is. AI's off the court decision definitely shortened his prime but at his peak it clearly didn't impact him on the court.

Allen Iverson one said, "how does me practicing help my team?" If Allen is asking those questions, I am severely questioning his intelligence. There's a reason this guy is literally broke and himself attesting that he couldn't afford a cheeseburger. If it weren't for his safety check, this guy would be no richer than the average Joe. Paul's IQ is far greater than Iverson. And I don't care about athleticism. Paul is doing an amazing job and I believe his efficiency matches only Magic in terms of a PG.

KingstonHawke
11-17-2013, 01:29 PM
LOVE both, but I'm going with AI. At PG, I'd take AI over Magic. It's rare you have a PG that can consistently beat his man w/o the use of a pick. You give AI that Heat team minus the stars (Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Rashard Lewis, and Chris Bosh)... I think you contend for a championship and AI wins an MVP.

Keep in mind AI should've won one of Nash's MVPs. 30pts, 7ast, 4 rbs I think. How that doesn't win the MVP can only be attributed to his cornrows and tattoos.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 01:31 PM
LOVE both, but I'm going with AI. At PG, I'd take AI over Magic. It's rare you have a PG that can consistently beat his man w/o the use of a pick. You give AI that Heat team minus the stars (Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Rashard Lewis, and Chris Bosh)... I think you contend for a championship and AI wins an MVP.

Keep in mind AI should've won one of Nash's MVPs. 30pts, 7ast, 4 rbs I think. How that doesn't win the MVP can only be attributed to his cornrows and tattoos.

Let's be clear. Miami contends because of LeBron. Let's also be clear. A.I is not in the same breath as LeBron. He will not be getting MVP over LeBron.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 02:00 PM
LOVE both, but I'm going with AI. At PG, I'd take AI over Magic. It's rare you have a PG that can consistently beat his man w/o the use of a pick. You give AI that Heat team minus the stars (Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Rashard Lewis, and Chris Bosh)... I think you contend for a championship and AI wins an MVP.

Keep in mind AI should've won one of Nash's MVPs. 30pts, 7ast, 4 rbs I think. How that doesn't win the MVP can only be attributed to his cornrows and tattoos.

Nash was obviously more valuable to his team than Iverson was to his.

Now put up the shooting % stats of Nash & AI that year

ManRam
11-17-2013, 02:05 PM
Paul, except for very specific scenarios where AI is a better fit...and I can't think of many of those. If scoring volume is an absolute must, and you already have an AMAZING defensive team, then Iverson could be a better fit (like that Finals run he had). But there's nothing else that he did better than Paul, besides volume scoring, in their respective primes.

JNA17
11-17-2013, 03:13 PM
Now I remember the reason why I stopped posting in the forum. The fact that even 35% of you would take Iverson is a joke. And the reasons most of you are listing are just terrible. I'd take Paul over any Point Guard in his prime. Only guy I'd probably take over him is Magic.

Please tell me you forgot John Stockton existed right? Please tell me you just forgot and meant to add in Stockton...

Right?

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 03:15 PM
If I was Cleveland, give me Allen Iverson. If I was trying to win a championship? I'd take Paul 100 times over. Allen will sell tickets, merchandise, and create more media attention. Can you win with him? I don't think so. Your chances with Paul for the future is much more promising. Not to mention Chris Paul has the highest PER for any PG. Dude is insanely efficient. Allen didn't have much to work with in terms of teammates, but the East was weak as hell. I think at that time, Bucks were the only other contender against Philly.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 03:17 PM
Please tell me you forgot John Stockton existed right? Please tell me you just forgot and meant to add in Stockton...

Right?

Paul in his prime was certainly better than Stockton. Stockton would not average 15 APG in the modern era.. Totally inflated. Why do you think no one is averaging 25 rebounds anymore?

JNA17
11-17-2013, 03:21 PM
Paul in his prime was certainly better than Stockton. Stockton would not average 15 APG in the modern era.. Totally inflated. Why do you think no one is averaging 25 rebounds anymore?

0_0 you're kidding right?

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 03:28 PM
0_0 you're kidding right?

What was Stockton better at? He wasn't a better passer. He may have had more assists but his passes were to the post to Karl - who was better than Stockton. He was a better three point shooter and probably a bit tougher on defense. Other than that, Paul's efficiency is ELITE. No other PG has had the efficiency that Paul has achieved. Would Paul and Karl Malone win a championship? I sure as hell think so. Paul is one of the toughest point guard - let alone player in NBA. He's got the same attitude that Stockton has but is also more athletic, quicker, faster, and more well rounded.

PhillyFaninLA
11-17-2013, 03:39 PM
If I was Cleveland, give me Allen Iverson. If I was trying to win a championship? I'd take Paul 100 times over. Allen will sell tickets, merchandise, and create more media attention. Can you win with him? I don't think so. Your chances with Paul for the future is much more promising. Not to mention Chris Paul has the highest PER for any PG. Dude is insanely efficient. Allen didn't have much to work with in terms of teammates, but the East was weak as hell. I think at that time, Bucks were the only other contender against Philly.


How old are you?

PhillyFaninLA
11-17-2013, 03:40 PM
0_0 you're kidding right?

I'm thinking he is 20 or so....I doubt this guy saw much or Iverson or Stockton with his own eyes

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 03:40 PM
Paul in his prime was certainly better than Stockton. Stockton would not average 15 APG in the modern era.. Totally inflated. Why do you think no one is averaging 25 rebounds anymore?

25rpg? Rodman was the only guy getting 15 rpg when Stockton was playing.

JNA17
11-17-2013, 03:41 PM
What was Stockton better at? He wasn't a better passer. He may have had more assists but his passes were to the post to Karl - who was better than Stockton. He was a better three point shooter and probably a bit tougher on defense. Other than that, Paul's efficiency is ELITE. No other PG has had the efficiency that Paul has achieved. Would Paul and Karl Malone win a championship? I sure as hell think so. Paul is one of the toughest point guard - let alone player in NBA. He's got the same attitude that Stockton has but is also more athletic, quicker, faster, and more well rounded.

Ok you are being sarcastic. Man thank goodness. I thought I was dealing with a 12 year old Clippers fan or something. XD

JNA17
11-17-2013, 03:45 PM
25rpg? Rodman was the only guy getting 15 rpg when Stockton was playing.

He's being sarcastic in his posts. Chris Paul for example has never reached that 15 ASG mark or even close to it once while Stockton has had multiple 14 or 13 assists seasons. I thought he was serious too. XD

2-ONE-5
11-17-2013, 03:45 PM
funny seeing people say Paul bcuz he is better at this and that and yet he has never played on a team as untalented as the Sixers were with AI and still hasnt accomplished anything in the league.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 03:46 PM
Lmao @ these people asking how old I am because I think a modern player today is better than their favorite player when they were probably 12. Who cares how old I am? Is it true or false that Allen wasn't intelligent and had a low IQ? It is true or false that East was particularly weak at that point? Heck, Nets made it to the Finals with Jason Kidd and Vince Carter and then got dismantled by Lakers. Allen would not have brought his team to the Finals in the West. Allen Iverson was incredibly inefficient. He was much like Brandon Jennings in terms of efficiency. Allen Iverson was a me-me-me player. If you're a coach or part of the front office of a franchise, you'd be a fool to pick Iverson. Unless your goal is to make money and not win, pick Iverson. Other than that, give me the guy who makes the right decision 99% of the time and has the work ethic to prove so.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 03:48 PM
He's being sarcastic in his posts. Chris Paul for example has never reached that 15 ASG mark or even close to it once while Stockton has had multiple 14 or 13 assists seasons. I thought he was serious too. XD

Wilt Chamberlain averaged 25 RPG. Why have we not seem anything close to it? Inflated stats. Stockton would not average 15 APG in today's generation. Not to mention his teammate Karl Malone was a better player than Stockton himself. Give Karl Malone CP3 and you would be looking at 5 rings for MJ.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 03:49 PM
He's being sarcastic in his posts. Chris Paul for example has never reached that 15 ASG mark or even close to it once while Stockton has had multiple 14 or 13 assists seasons. I thought he was serious too. XD

Who was the better passer, Magic or Stock? Please don't use such argument.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 03:52 PM
funny seeing people say Paul bcuz he is better at this and that and yet he has never played on a team as untalented as the Sixers were with AI and still hasnt accomplished anything in the league.

AI demanded offensively limited players. It was the only way he could be AI.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 03:55 PM
Wilt Chamberlain averaged 25 RPG. Why have we not seem anything close to it? Inflated stats. Stockton would not average 15 APG in today's generation. Not to mention his teammate Karl Malone was a better player than Stockton himself. Give Karl Malone CP3 and you would be looking at 5 rings for MJ.

CP3 has Griffin AND a Center that plays defense.

Players don't come around often with the BBIQ of John Stockton.

JNA17
11-17-2013, 03:55 PM
Who was the better passer, Magic or Stock? Please don't use such argument.

You realize Stockton has the most assists OF ALL TIME in the NBA ever right? Even as a Lakers fan I know Stockton was better at passing.

Stop it. Your posts were funny before but now you are starting to look ridiculous.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 03:57 PM
CP3 has Griffin AND a Center that plays defense.

Players don't come around often with the BBIQ of John Stockton.

Lol. Because Chris Paul has a low BBIQ? And you lost me at CP3 has Griffin. Griffin isn't half the player Malone was. Also, DJ wasn't a great defender until this season. He was a good defender. Who did CP3 have at New Orleans, though? David West?

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 04:00 PM
You realize Stockton has the most assists OF ALL TIME in the NBA ever right? Even as a Lakers fan I know Stockton was better at passing.

Stop it. Your posts were funny before but now you are starting to look ridiculous.

So because Stockton has the most assists of all time, he's the best passer ever? Lmao. Great logic. So since Kareem has the most points of all time, he's the best scorer. Gotcha. Bye, Jordan. Guess you weren't the GOAT.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 04:01 PM
Lol. Because Chris Paul has a low BBIQ? And you lost me at CP3 has Griffin. Griffin isn't half the player Malone was. Also, DJ wasn't a great defender until this season. He was a good defender. Who did CP3 have at New Orleans, though? David West?

Tyson Chandler?

dhopisthename
11-17-2013, 04:01 PM
Wilt Chamberlain averaged 25 RPG. Why have we not seem anything close to it? Inflated stats. Stockton would not average 15 APG in today's generation. Not to mention his teammate Karl Malone was a better player than Stockton himself. Give Karl Malone CP3 and you would be looking at 5 rings for MJ.

chamberlain played 20 years before john stockton played that doesn't correlate at all.

jerellh528
11-17-2013, 04:08 PM
I would probably go iverson here. Cp3 is by far the more complete player, but Iverson was basically all of Phillies offense and led them to the finals under the constant reliance of points and offense from him. Cp3 is great too though.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 04:23 PM
chamberlain played 20 years before john stockton played that doesn't correlate at all.

It's an indication that some generations yield inflated stats. The game is much slower today than that of the past. More shots=more rebounds/assists. They don't run the ball up like they used to.

PhillyFaninLA
11-17-2013, 04:27 PM
Lmao @ these people asking how old I am because I think a modern player today is better than their favorite player when they were probably 12. Who cares how old I am? Is it true or false that Allen wasn't intelligent and had a low IQ? It is true or false that East was particularly weak at that point? Heck, Nets made it to the Finals with Jason Kidd and Vince Carter and then got dismantled by Lakers. Allen would not have brought his team to the Finals in the West. Allen Iverson was incredibly inefficient. He was much like Brandon Jennings in terms of efficiency. Allen Iverson was a me-me-me player. If you're a coach or part of the front office of a franchise, you'd be a fool to pick Iverson. Unless your goal is to make money and not win, pick Iverson. Other than that, give me the guy who makes the right decision 99% of the time and has the work ethic to prove so.


The reason I asked how old you are, you don't someone like someone that watched Iverson, you sound like someone that built an opinion based on his reputation. Until Stockton was brought up I didn't think to ask, because Stockton was a much better PG in my opinion.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 04:33 PM
It's an indication that some generations yield inflated stats. The game is much slower today than that of the past. More shots=more rebounds/assists. They don't run the ball up like they used to.

Stockton's '98 Finals team averaged 101 ppg, 3rd in the league.

Paul's '12-'13 team averaged 101 ppg, 9th in the league.

Run that 'the game is slower today' thing by me again.

2_Trill
11-17-2013, 04:42 PM
A.I the dude is tough as nail and plays every game like its his last.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 04:50 PM
A.I the dude is tough as nail and plays every game like its his last.

'his' being the key word. That's what Iverson was concerned about......'his'.

faze38
11-17-2013, 05:05 PM
Tyson Chandler?
That has to be one of the best pick and roll set ups ever david west can pick and pop with the best of them and then you have chandler who is a great pick and roll player. CP3 is great but he has been lucky enough to always have some great pick and roll side kicks.

To me tho it's AI no question. I love a guy who can run a team like paul and tony parker but at that end of the day AI would embarrass those guys. CP3 couldn't guard AI if his life depended on it. AI has done the most with the least and by the time he got a great side kick in Melo he was already slowing down a bit.

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 05:05 PM
Stockton's '98 Finals team averaged 101 ppg, 3rd in the league.

Paul's '12-'13 team averaged 101 ppg, 9th in the league.

Run that 'the game is slower today' thing by me again.

You do realize that you chose the season in which Stockton was way past his prime, right? We were talking about assists and you bring up one of Stockton's worst seasons as an example compared to one of Paul's best? Refer to the 88 season in which they had a pace of 98.0.. And that was 22nd/25 highest of all NBA teams. By contrast, 96.1 was the highest pace last year.. Also, 1989, the highest scoring team was Phoenix at 119 P/G. Last season, the highest scoring team was the Nuggets at 106 PPG. The league average for the 1998-1999 season was 108 PPG. Last season, it was 98 PPG. Please stop posting if you do not understand what you're talking about.

faze38
11-17-2013, 05:08 PM
yeah im sure thats what he was worried about playing with broken fingers, hands, toes, foots and sprained elbows. AI gave it everything every night. Sacrificed for his team and the city he played for. AI is the greatest little man ever. He was a 6' SG who avg 26 and 7. WHat more do you want from a him!

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 05:20 PM
You do realize that you chose the season in which Stockton was way past his prime, right? We were talking about assists and you bring up one of Stockton's worst seasons as an example compared to one of Paul's best? Refer to the 88 season in which they had a pace of 98.0.. And that was 22nd/25 highest of all NBA teams. By contrast, 96.1 was the highest pace last year.. Also, 1989, the highest scoring team was Phoenix at 119 P/G. Last season, the highest scoring team was the Nuggets at 106 PPG. The league average for the 1998-1999 season was 108 PPG. Last season, it was 98 PPG. Please stop posting if you do not understand what you're talking about.

See Below.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 05:24 PM
You do realize that you chose the season in which Stockton was way past his prime, right? We were talking about assists and you bring up one of Stockton's worst seasons as an example compared to one of Paul's best? Refer to the 88 season in which they had a pace of 98.0.. And that was 22nd/25 highest of all NBA teams. By contrast, 96.1 was the highest pace last year.. Also, 1989, the highest scoring team was Phoenix at 119 P/G. Last season, the highest scoring team was the Nuggets at 106 PPG. The league average for the 1998-1999 season was 108 PPG. Last season, it was 98 PPG. Please stop posting if you do not understand what you're talking about.

Jazz got to the Finals. They were 3rd in scoring. Stockton shot 52.8%, 42.9% from 3. You're calling this Stockton's worst season. Then you want to compare Paul to Stockton.

Stockton played 5 more seasons without missing a game.

League avg team ppg in '98-'99 was 91.6.

Where are you getting your misinformation?

FlashBolt
11-17-2013, 05:38 PM
Jazz got to the Finals. They were 3rd in scoring. Stockton shot 52.8%, 42.9% from 3. You're calling this Stockton's worst season. Then you want to compare Paul to Stockton.

Stockton played 5 more seasons without missing a game.

League avg team ppg in '98-'99 was 91.6.

Where are you getting your misinformation?

First off, your English is horrific. At least portray yourself properly. Secondly, that wasn't Stockton's prime. The pace of NBA slowed down after the 95-96 season. Stockton's prime was in the 1986-1994 season, in which the pace was INCREDIBLY high. Teams were scoring 115 PPG, EASILY. Now, if a team scores 115 PPG, you are damn sure wondering what happened. What does Stockton playing 5 more seasons without missing a game have anything to do with this? Is Westbrook better than Chris Paul? Hell no. And what an amazing sample you're using. Stockton shot 52.8% and 42.9% from three. Dude, he only shot 8 shots per game and attempted 1 three per game. What kind of sample is this? He also only scored 12 points a game.. By contrast, Nash shot 53% from the field, 40% from threes, averaging 13 PPG and 11 APG when he was 37 at his last year in Phoenix. Was Nash even a top 5 PG? Hell no. And yes, that was one of Stockton's worst seasons. His best seasons were way past him and he was no longer as big of a threat.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 05:42 PM
First off, your English is horrific. At least portray yourself properly. Secondly, that wasn't Stockton's prime. The pace of NBA slowed down after the 95-96 season. Stockton's prime was in the 1986-1994 season, in which the pace was INCREDIBLY high. Teams were scoring 115 PPG, EASILY. Now, if a team scores 115 PPG, you are damn sure wondering what happened. What does Stockton playing 5 more seasons without missing a game have anything to do with this? Is Westbrook better than Chris Paul? Hell no. And what an amazing sample you're using. Stockton shot 52.8% and 42.9% from three. Dude, he only shot 8 shots per game and attempted 1 three per game. What kind of sample is this? He also only scored 12 points a game.. By contrast, Nash shot 53% from the field, 40% from threes, averaging 13 PPG and 11 APG when he was 37 at his last year in Phoenix. Was Nash even a top 5 PG? Hell no. And yes, that was one of Stockton's worst seasons. His best seasons were way past him and he was no longer as big of a threat.

'98-'99, league average was 91.6. Why are you lying?

As for Nash, Stockton played defense and had a lower TO rate.

lakerfan85
11-17-2013, 05:44 PM
CP3 has become so overrated. He has done nothing in this league to put him in the discussion of alot of the guys he is compared to. If any other SUPERstar would have gone out the way he did last year on a team as loaded as the Clips they would have been crucified.

But But CP3 is so efficient..

lakerfan85
11-17-2013, 05:50 PM
What was Stockton better at? He wasn't a better passer. He may have had more assists but his passes were to the post to Karl - who was better than Stockton. He was a better three point shooter and probably a bit tougher on defense. Other than that, Paul's efficiency is ELITE. No other PG has had the efficiency that Paul has achieved. Would Paul and Karl Malone win a championship? I sure as hell think so. Paul is one of the toughest point guard - let alone player in NBA. He's got the same attitude that Stockton has but is also more athletic, quicker, faster, and more well rounded.

You certainly got the more rounded part right... Paul looks fat to me sometimes..

Raps18-19 Champ
11-17-2013, 05:59 PM
Easy. Of course CP3.

ManningToTyree
11-17-2013, 06:13 PM
Iverson

KnicksorBust
11-17-2013, 06:28 PM
Iverson is the most overrated of alltime. Cp3

2-ONE-5
11-17-2013, 06:51 PM
Lmao @ these people asking how old I am because I think a modern player today is better than their favorite player when they were probably 12. Who cares how old I am? Is it true or false that Allen wasn't intelligent and had a low IQ? It is true or false that East was particularly weak at that point? Heck, Nets made it to the Finals with Jason Kidd and Vince Carter and then got dismantled by Lakers. Allen would not have brought his team to the Finals in the West. Allen Iverson was incredibly inefficient. He was much like Brandon Jennings in terms of efficiency. Allen Iverson was a me-me-me player. If you're a coach or part of the front office of a franchise, you'd be a fool to pick Iverson. Unless your goal is to make money and not win, pick Iverson. Other than that, give me the guy who makes the right decision 99% of the time and has the work ethic to prove so.

man you really showed your age with this post. Incredibly uninformed just like most of your posts in here. You clearly did not watch Iverson play in his prime


Iverson is the most overrated of alltime. Cp3

coming from the Knicks fan lol

effen5
11-17-2013, 07:03 PM
man you really showed your age with this post. Incredibly uninformed just like most of your posts in here. You clearly did not watch Iverson play in his prime



coming from the Knicks fan lol

He's never seen Iverson or Stockton play, its the reason why he won't say his age.

bagwell368
11-17-2013, 07:39 PM
I'd take Iverson, there is no stat that accounts for heart. He lead a team of nobodys to the final. Imagine if he had some better shooters around him? CP3 needs to do something in the playoffs for me to even consider him over AI

But there are plenty of stats that defame AI as a selfish chucker. AI's off court behaviour from his schoolboy years and up are also rife with regrettable, childish, and egocentric behaviour galore. One of the 5 worst influences on the NBA in is history. I'd take Mo Cheeks over him anytime, never mind Paul.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 07:43 PM
But there are plenty of stats that defame AI as a selfish chucker. AI's off court behaviour from his schoolboy years and up are also rife with regrettable, childish, and egocentric behaviour galore. One of the 5 worst influences on the NBA in is history. I'd take Mo Cheeks over him anytime, never mind Paul.

Mo Cheeks was a great PG

KnicksorBust
11-17-2013, 07:50 PM
Lmao @ these people asking how old I am because I think a modern player today is better than their favorite player when they were probably 12. Who cares how old I am? Is it true or false that Allen wasn't intelligent and had a low IQ? It is true or false that East was particularly weak at that point? Heck, Nets made it to the Finals with Jason Kidd and Vince Carter and then got dismantled by Lakers. Allen would not have brought his team to the Finals in the West. Allen Iverson was incredibly inefficient. He was much like Brandon Jennings in terms of efficiency. Allen Iverson was a me-me-me player. If you're a coach or part of the front office of a franchise, you'd be a fool to pick Iverson. Unless your goal is to make money and not win, pick Iverson. Other than that, give me the guy who makes the right decision 99% of the time and has the work ethic to prove so.

man you really showed your age with this post. Incredibly uninformed just like most of your posts in here. You clearly did not watch Iverson play in his prime


Iverson is the most overrated of alltime. Cp3

coming from the Knicks fan lol

Baiting. Let me know when you have a real response.

Swashcuff
11-17-2013, 07:50 PM
AI demanded offensively limited players. It was the only way he could be AI.

This is the sad thing about Allen Iverson, people actually believed this utter bulllshite.

Allen Iverson beggggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddddddd dddddd for help. When we got Van Horn he was ecstatic then Van Horn proved his uselessness as a legit number two, A.I. then begggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddddd for legit him (in other words proven scorers) when we got Big Dog again A.I. was pleased until he became big puppy. Then Chris Webber came (and Webber himself could have told you this because he says it all the time) and nothing could have made have made A.I. happier he gave jump shooting Webber the ball any time he could and TBH Webber overachieved when he played in Philly because A.I.'s trust in him. Dude could barely touch the rim and was a shell of his former self but was still a 20 and 10 player on poor efficiency.

When A.I. finally played with Melo he deferred to him on many occasions stating over and over that this was Melo's team and that he was here to do what he does in order to help the Nuggets be successful. In his prime the man literally begged the 76ers to get some offensive help for him, as the burden was too much too carry.

Another player woulda probably asked to be traded a year after signing his second contract and if he wasn't just leave in Free Agency.

A.I. NEVER demanded offensively limited players that's the biggest piece of BULL in this thread.

Swashcuff
11-17-2013, 07:53 PM
But there are plenty of stats that defame AI as a selfish chucker. AI's off court behaviour from his schoolboy years and up are also rife with regrettable, childish, and egocentric behaviour galore. One of the 5 worst influences on the NBA in is history. I'd take Mo Cheeks over him anytime, never mind Paul.

You've also told me that you hate Allen Iverson and he isn't one of the top 300 players of all time, so stating that you'd take Cheeks over him is a compliment. I thought you would have said someone like Nick Van Exel or Earl Boykins. I'm quite certain you'd take them over A.I. as well too though.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 07:58 PM
This is the sad thing about Allen Iverson, people actually believed this utter bulllshite.

Allen Iverson beggggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddddddd dddddd for help. When we got Van Horn he was ecstatic then Van Horn proved his uselessness as a legit number two, A.I. then begggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddddd for legit him (in other words proven scorers) when we got Big Dog again A.I. was pleased until he became big puppy. Then Chris Webber came (and Webber himself could have told you this because he says it all the time) and nothing could have made have made A.I. happier he gave jump shooting Webber the ball any time he could and TBH Webber overachieved when he played in Philly because A.I.'s trust in him. Dude could barely touch the rim and was a shell of his former self but was still a 20 and 10 player on poor efficiency.

When A.I. finally played with Melo he deferred to him on many occasions stating over and over that this was Melo's team and that he was here to do what he does in order to help the Nuggets be successful. In his prime the man literally begged the 76ers to get some offensive help for him, as the burden was too much too carry.

Another player woulda probably asked to be traded a year after signing his second contract and if he wasn't just leave in Free Agency.

A.I. NEVER demanded offensively limited players that's the biggest piece of BULL in this thread.

You are biased.

And I never said he demanded anything.......at least not publicly.

NetsPaint
11-17-2013, 08:14 PM
Iverson.

Chris Paul practices hard, but I've seen a lot of games where he doesn't play hard. Chris Paul has this image that makes him look better than he is. There's been times he was whiny, flopped like crazy, and did not give the effort in games. And stats doesn't show crap when it comes to A.I. Would deferring to bricked shots gonna make the team better? He got to the line a LOT, and guess what, he was efficient from it. The efficiency and amount of times he went to the free throw line COUNTS. He wasn't a flopper either.

Bishnoff
11-17-2013, 08:21 PM
Cp3.

Swashcuff
11-17-2013, 08:22 PM
You are biased.

And I never said he demanded anything.......at least not publicly.

Say what now?


AI demanded offensively limited players. It was the only way he could be AI.

Care to change your tune?

Yeah and I am bias, I also know a lot about the topic and TRUTH not the vomit that people like to spew about A.I. and other public figures online and in the media.

I remember it being said countless times by reporters and Philly media how concerned A.I. was about his lack of offensive support especially after we got whopped in 01. That story wouldn't sell nationally however so no one really cared. Those who followed the 76ers did however.

Sure I am bias but everything I said was completely factual. A.I. wanted help.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 08:23 PM
Iverson.

Chris Paul practices hard, but I've seen a lot of games where he doesn't play hard. Chris Paul has this image that makes him look better than he is. There's been times he was whiny, flopped like crazy, and did not give the effort in games. And stats doesn't show crap when it comes to A.I. Would deferring to bricked shots gonna make the team better? He got to the line a LOT, and guess what, he was efficient from it. The efficiency and amount of times he went to the free throw line COUNTS. He wasn't a flopper either.

To flop, you have to be trying to play defense.

ackar
11-17-2013, 08:24 PM
A.I. how soon the mind forgets.

NetsPaint
11-17-2013, 08:32 PM
To flop, you have to be trying to play defense.
Yeah, because nobody in the history of the NBA tried to get a foul call on offense.

NetsPaint
11-17-2013, 08:32 PM
Legit baffled by that reply.

Guppyfighter
11-17-2013, 08:39 PM
The people old enough to try to bring up playoff success for AI should remember two things. East was historically weak in their finals run. And the Bucks were ****ing ripped off. The ECF series between the Sixers-Bucks was as badly officiated as the Lakers-Kings series. Bucks should have won that series.

Chronz
11-17-2013, 08:51 PM
CP3 shrinks in pressure situations while Iverson stepped his game up.
wat gives you that idea

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 09:19 PM
Legit baffled by that reply.

Then you must be baffled rather easily.

You actually don't see the connection between flopping and trying to play defense?

2-ONE-5
11-17-2013, 09:23 PM
To flop, you have to be trying to play defense.

no you dont. it half assing it bcuz u dont want to put in the effort to play real d


The people old enough to try to bring up playoff success for AI should remember two things. East was historically weak in their finals run. And the Bucks were ****ing ripped off. The ECF series between the Sixers-Bucks was as badly officiated as the Lakers-Kings series. Bucks should have won that series.

how has the East improved since? its been a 1-3 team race for years. its no better right now then it was back then and i dont see people using that as an excuse to derail Wade or James. The Bucks werent ripped and it only went 7 bcuz AI missed a game.

RenegadeRiot36
11-17-2013, 09:28 PM
Give me Iverson. CP3 is the more complete player, but Iverson brought a new flare to the game that hasnt been seen. Hes one of a kind and he revolutionizes any city that he plays for in his prime. You may get more on the court with Paul, but your team gains more with Iverson

NetsPaint
11-17-2013, 09:32 PM
Then you must be baffled rather easily.

You actually don't see the connection between flopping and trying to play defense?
So players, including Chris Paul, never flopped on offense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SOCNxCzb1I

Staggering defensive effort there.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 09:37 PM
So players, including Chris Paul, never flopped on offense?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SOCNxCzb1I

Staggering defensive effort there.

Oh, sorry. You are talking flopping on offense.

Iverson wasn't smart enough to that.

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 09:38 PM
Give me Iverson. CP3 is the more complete player, but Iverson brought a new flare to the game that hasnt been seen. Hes one of a kind and he revolutionizes any city that he plays for in his prime. You may get more on the court with Paul, but your team gains more with Iverson

Yeah, he sure revolutionized Denver.

NetsPaint
11-17-2013, 09:47 PM
Oh, sorry. You are talking flopping on offense.

Iverson wasn't smart enough to that.
So you're trolling, alright.

Chronz
11-17-2013, 09:48 PM
Paul, except for very specific scenarios where AI is a better fit...and I can't think of many of those. If scoring volume is an absolute must, and you already have an AMAZING defensive team, then Iverson could be a better fit (like that Finals run he had). But there's nothing else that he did better than Paul, besides volume scoring, in their respective primes.
Don't forget the mandatory tall pg you have to pigeonhole at the position to make up for both his inability to defend sgs and to facilitate ball movement on the other end for him

koreancabbage
11-17-2013, 10:31 PM
Give me Iverson. CP3 is the more complete player, but Iverson brought a new flare to the game that hasnt been seen. Hes one of a kind and he revolutionizes any city that he plays for in his prime. You may get more on the court with Paul, but your team gains more with Iverson

never really revolutionized Denver or Detroit.

Chronz
11-17-2013, 11:06 PM
Btw
Do people really think AI was at his peak so early on his career? Man you guys are really blinded by team success, most likely because you guys didn't actually see the subtle improvements he made throughout his career
Cp3 peak is likely long over, so any team success nowadays will belie what he could have done earlier

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 11:09 PM
So you're trolling, alright.

I gave you a true statement.

If your capabilities as an NBA fan can't realize that, everyone on this forum should take note of your NBA knowledge, or lack thereof.

bagwell368
11-17-2013, 11:10 PM
I'd take Iverson, there is no stat that accounts for heart. He lead a team of nobodys to the final. Imagine if he had some better shooters around him? CP3 needs to do something in the playoffs for me to even consider him over AI

Well, I don't know what you were watching (maybe AI taking bad shots...) but Paul has made the playoffs in 5 seasons, and in 2 of them was the best player in the post season (and 2nd best in another). He can't be responsible for being on teams with players that got shrinkage factor - isn't that one of AI's fans favorite excuses for AI's lack of a title? At least Paul still has 5-7 more years to try, we all know AI is a loser, and a fresser, and a criminal.

bagwell368
11-17-2013, 11:11 PM
Give me Iverson. CP3 is the more complete player, but Iverson brought a new flare to the game that hasnt been seen. Hes one of a kind and he revolutionizes any city that he plays for in his prime. You may get more on the court with Paul, but your team gains more with Iverson

More search warrants?

NetsPaint
11-17-2013, 11:20 PM
I gave you a true statement.

If your capabilities as an NBA fan can't realize that, everyone on this forum should take note of your NBA knowledge, or lack thereof.
So you want players to be a ****** like Paul?

firebryan!!
11-17-2013, 11:25 PM
a.i took a *** team to the finals...nuff said

firebryan!!
11-17-2013, 11:27 PM
Yeah, he sure revolutionized Denver.
past his prime

Chronz
11-17-2013, 11:29 PM
a.i took a *** team to the finals...nuff said

Lots of players have. Including some far inferior to CP3. Nuff said

TheMightyHumph
11-17-2013, 11:35 PM
a.i took a *** team to the finals...nuff said

Most intelligent NBA know that a specifically designed team took Iverson to the Finals, after Geiger's trade clause prevented Sixers from trading AI to Pistons for..........Stackhouse.

I actually feel somewhat sorry for you.

Swashcuff
11-18-2013, 02:41 AM
Lots of players have. Including some far inferior to CP3. Nuff said

Do tell Chronz

John Walls Era
11-18-2013, 02:46 AM
Just to fool around, I'll take Iverson. I'll make sure to give him a better PG (not stupid Eric "Can't make shots" Snow).

Swashcuff
11-18-2013, 02:57 AM
Most intelligent NBA know that a specifically designed team took Iverson to the Finals, after Geiger's trade clause prevented Sixers from trading AI to Pistons for..........Stackhouse.

I actually feel somewhat sorry for you.

Hey GENIUS (and yes I use that in the most sarcastic way possible) if you're going to attack someone at least have the common to do it right. The Sixers didn't want Stackhouse been there done that wasted time, A.I. was going to Detroit and in return the Sixers would have gotten Eddie Jones from the Hornets aka the centerpiece, washed up Glen Rice from the Lakers, a throw in also known as then retiring Dale Ellis and Jerome Junkyard Dog Williams. Now tell me you're giving up Allen Iverson for Eddie Jones. Seriously! That in itself should show you how incapable our front office was in the A.I. era.

Stackhouse wanted nothing to do with Philly again and the feeling was mutual, he was headed to Charlotte.

Your views however on Allen Iverson's past however should not be taken seriously since its evident from this posts and earlier that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

bagwell368
11-18-2013, 09:06 AM
Just to fool around, I'll take Iverson. I'll make sure to give him a better PG (not stupid Eric "Can't make shots" Snow).

Hhahahahhahahhaaa

From 1999-2004 when the were teammates on Philly:

ES: 2PT FG%: .443 FT%: .797
AI: 2PT FG%: .432 FT%: .771

I just snorted coffee out of my nose looking that up....

Thanks for the laugh.

Jamiecballer
11-18-2013, 09:56 AM
i'm way too late joining this thread to read 12 pages of posts first, but i'm sure i'm not the first person to say something along these lines -

Chris Paul, there are literally dozens of players i'd rather have at their peak than Iverson.

bagwell368
11-18-2013, 10:05 AM
i'm way too late joining this thread to read 12 pages of posts first, but i'm sure i'm not the first person to say something along these lines -

Chris Paul, there are literally dozens of players i'd rather have at their peak than Iverson.

I have 9 dozen when you include his off court bologna.

Alayla
11-18-2013, 10:34 AM
Hhahahahhahahhaaa

From 1999-2004 when the were teammates on Philly:

ES: 2PT FG%: .443 FT%: .797
AI: 2PT FG%: .432 FT%: .771

I just snorted coffee out of my nose looking that up....

Thanks for the laugh.

Irreverent Snow clearly had a far lower volume of shots and if the past decade has proved anything beyond a shadow of a doubt more shooting = less efficiency no matter who you are.

Alayla
11-18-2013, 10:35 AM
However despite defending AI in that last post i take CP3 without question in fact Why IS this a question.

lakerboy
11-18-2013, 10:50 AM
Easily Allen Iverson. Great scorer, proven winner.

Chris Paul has been leading overhyped teams since college, and he always gets bounced off the playoffs.

I don't know why, but CP3 always gets smoked in the playoffs.

Jamiecballer
11-18-2013, 10:54 AM
I have 9 dozen when you include his off court bologna.

sounds about right. he was great for entertainment value but his style of play makes the job of GM and coach almost impossible.

lakerboy
11-18-2013, 11:00 AM
Can anybody explain to me why Chris Paul teams are overhyped year after year, and underperform BIG time in tight situations.

Even in college, Wake Forest was #1 but was smoked in the sweet 16. New Orleans was supposed to be great, and they only had 1 good year before Tony Parker and Tim Duncan ate his lunch.

CLippers was supposed to be BIG the past 2 years. What happened to them ?? First round exit!!! It is embarrassing!!

KingstonHawke
11-18-2013, 11:05 AM
Let's be clear. Miami contends because of LeBron. Let's also be clear. A.I is not in the same breath as LeBron. He will not be getting MVP over LeBron.

Yes... and the Thunder contend because of Westbrook and Durant. Replace those names with the lesser Steph Curry and Paul George... still contenders.


Nash was obviously more valuable to his team than Iverson was to his.

Now put up the shooting % stats of Nash & AI that year

Nash wasn't even the best player on the team for the majority of the year, Stoudmire was. You give Iverson that roster and he'd have 25 pts 10 ast easily.

macc
11-18-2013, 11:13 AM
I've seen AI's prime and Paul's prime. I would take AI. He had a bigger impact on the game. If you didn't see his prime you wouldn't understand. I understand today's NBA watcher pulls up stats and forumlates an opinion on stats alone but anyone that watched AI in his prime knows he was a top 5 player in the NBA for a long time. Noone could stop the guy and noone had the heart he had. The guy would create chaos on the floor. I wish people would understand it's not all about stats. Though AI was one of the best scorers the NBA has ever had.

The guy would average 30+ ppg 4+ rpg 5+ apg and just under 3 steals per game. The guy was a straight up beast.

Paul is a PG, AI was a SG. Paul averaged more assists, AI average a ton more points as well as put up assists. Just not like Paul did.

Though as it was talked about before. What has Paul done in this league besides get bounced out of the playoffs in the first round? I've never understood why the guy gets a pass for his team failing. Esp with his loaded team failing.

FlashBolt
11-18-2013, 11:18 AM
Look at all these people who think because they watched old games - they are masters of basketball. Chris Paul has been a top 5 player for quite some time also.

ShockerArt
11-18-2013, 11:22 AM
I loved watching Allen Iverson play. But, if I was building a team, it's Chris Paul. Not close.

FlashBolt
11-18-2013, 11:38 AM
Inefficient shot jacker who played 46 minutes a game to score 30 points. Give me a break. Legend? Yes. But you give anyone 46 minutes and 100% ball control, they would produce numbers as well.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 11:54 AM
Do tell Chronz
Spree says hello. Houston if you want to get sentimental or Camby if you buy into the numbers. Dont care who you choose. Seriously you needed a refresher from that recently?

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 12:05 PM
Lots of players have. Including some far inferior to CP3. Nuff said

no.


Most intelligent NBA know that a specifically designed team took Iverson to the Finals, after Geiger's trade clause prevented Sixers from trading AI to Pistons for..........Stackhouse.

I actually feel somewhat sorry for you.

speciacally designed for AI? yea thats what we did...i feel sorry for you if u believe that


I have 9 dozen when you include his off court bologna.

9 dozen? get real, you clearly are just an AI hater.

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 12:06 PM
funny how no one has an answer for why they are givng Paul a pass for his lack of success in the league despite never playing on a team as bad as AI's Sixers.

Guppyfighter
11-18-2013, 12:07 PM
The hilarious awfulness of thinking AI is better than Chris Paul.

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 12:10 PM
wow People talking about CP3 being the best PG of all time or a top-5 PG of all time are certifiiably insane when guy has gotten his team past the 1st RD exactly once and never past the 2nd. You guys crack me up. AI was a true superstar in every sense of the word. He could carry 4 other guys on his back CP3 cannot do that.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 12:22 PM
no.


Compelling stuff kiddo, I counter with the word yes. Longer word wins right?

Chronz
11-18-2013, 12:23 PM
If AI can carry teams on his back, why has he missed the playoffs? Maybe we should stop with the hyperbole and actually assess the individuals.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 12:25 PM
funny how no one has an answer for why they are givng Paul a pass for his lack of success in the league despite never playing on a team as bad as AI's Sixers.
It's been covered check a few pages before you even mentioned anything. Reading helps bro

Nobody has answered WHEN AI was at his absolute best tho

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 12:27 PM
If AI can carry teams on his back, why has he missed the playoffs? Maybe we should stop with the hyperbole and actually assess the individuals.

When did he miss the playoffs? When he was still a pup in the league or when he was already washed up?

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 12:32 PM
Compelling stuff kiddo, I counter with the word yes. Longer word wins right?

oh i forgot you named players in your post....

you have nothing

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 12:34 PM
It's been covered check a few pages before you even mentioned anything. Reading helps bro

Nobody has answered WHEN AI was at his absolute best tho

no it wasnt answered. just a few people saying AI only got so far bcuz he was in the East which isnt a valid argument. AI at his best wom MPV and led a crap team to the finals and was the only team to beat the Lakers in the playoffs and did it on their court.

Now find something comparable for Paul

I Rock Shaqs
11-18-2013, 12:38 PM
It's probably been already said but the people saying Paul are just straight up hating on Iverson, I think the big thing people are forgetting is LOYALTY!, Iverson stayed with the 76'ers through everything and when Paul couldn't win and still hasn't by the way he leaves town.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 12:38 PM
When did he miss the playoffs? When he was still a pup in the league or when he was already washed up?
Actually he had one of his most productive seasons. I know it's hard to look past ur biases but you should try to stay entrenched in reality.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 12:45 PM
It's probably been already said but the people saying Paul are just straight up hating on Iverson, I think the big thing people are forgetting is LOYALTY!, Iverson stayed with the 76'ers through everything and when Paul couldn't win and still hasn't by the way he leaves town.
Actually Im pretty sure AIs trade demand was handled by sending his *** home while they shopped him. Hes the one who asked for it silly

Chronz
11-18-2013, 12:49 PM
oh i forgot you named players in your post....

you have nothing

Just so we're clear, u actually think any of the players named in that post are superior to cp3.

Oh and yes, mentioning the strength of the conference is actually VERY valid, I can understand why you would want to ignore objective evidence tho. Its a trait shared by many of his fanboys.

And u really believed ai stopped getting better so early in his career? Lmfao

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 12:49 PM
after 10 years...

Guppyfighter
11-18-2013, 12:51 PM
Just stop.

todu82
11-18-2013, 12:54 PM
Iverson, guy carried those 76ers teams back in the late 90's early 2000's.

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 12:56 PM
Just so we're clear, u actually think any of the players named in that post are superior to cp3.

Oh and yes, mentioning the strength of the conference is actually VERY valid, I can understand why you would want to ignore objective evidence tho. Its a trait shared by many of his fanboys.

And u really believed ai stopped getting better so early in his career? Lmfao

i bet u dont discredit Wade or James for the East being weak...

Swashcuff
11-18-2013, 01:00 PM
Spree says hello. Houston if you want to get sentimental or Camby if you buy into the numbers. Dont care who you choose. Seriously you needed a refresher from that recently?

A refresher? Nope. When I think of a player leading a crap team to the finals (by finals standards) I think of Barry, Hakeem, TD, Bron etc leading their teams to the finals. I would hardly call Spree or Camby (who played on the same team) leading a crap team to the finals.

Remember you said plenty players have done this and many of them were inferior to CP3. I'd just like to know who these inferior players/teams are.

Try again.

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 01:01 PM
Actually he had one of his most productive seasons. I know it's hard to look past ur biases but you should try to stay entrenched in reality.

What are you talking about biases? I have no bias either way. I'm not a fan of either 76ers or Clippers. I just know what I saw. I saw a guy whose 2nd best player on offense was Aaron Mckie lead that team to the NBA finals and was 1 or 2 bad calls away from putting his team up 2-0 against the greatest dynasty the NBA has seen for the past 15 years.

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 01:03 PM
lets not forget the Sixers coming out of the "weak East" were the ONLY team to beat the Lakers in the playoffs and they did it in LA

Guppyfighter
11-18-2013, 01:04 PM
i bet u dont discredit Wade or James for the East being weak...

Considering they actually beat teams from the West I don't see how your argument is valid. It's like AI ever won anything. He's in the same boat as CP3 in that regard.

Swashcuff
11-18-2013, 01:15 PM
If AI can carry teams on his back, why has he missed the playoffs? Maybe we should stop with the hyperbole and actually assess the individuals.

While I don't fully agree with brash statement like A.I. carried teams of his back (that's more Bron, Jordan territory) why the statements of him missing the playoffs? After becoming a playoff team the first time we missed the playoffs was when A.I. and Glen Robinson (who was supposed to be our 2nd best player but was no better than Jared Dudley on today's Clippers) missed half the season under head coaches RANDY AYERS and Chris Ford but the other time we absolutely should have made it given the supporting cast A.I. had, don't blame him though, he played as hard as ever and dispelled the ignorant argument that he was a selfish chucker who couldn't co-exist with another high volume scorer becoming the first player in 30+ years to average 33 and 7 in a season.

b@llhog24
11-18-2013, 01:19 PM
However despite defending AI in that last post i take CP3 without question in fact Why IS this a question.

I'm wondering that too.

TheMightyHumph
11-18-2013, 01:21 PM
It is very difficult to believe, that any NBA executive, knowing what they know now about both players, would draft Iverson over Chris Paul.

How can anyone with knowledge of the NBA feel differently?

Regardless of which player you root for or worship, my statement is true.

Swashcuff
11-18-2013, 01:21 PM
I'm wondering that too.

:laugh:

Brilliant.

b@llhog24
11-18-2013, 01:22 PM
Easily Allen Iverson. Great scorer, proven winner.

Chris Paul has been leading overhyped teams since college, and he always gets bounced off the playoffs.

I don't know why, but CP3 always gets smoked in the playoffs.

You're not very bright are you?

Swashcuff
11-18-2013, 01:28 PM
It is very difficult to believe, that any NBA executive, knowing what they know now about both players, would draft Iverson over Chris Paul.

How can anyone with knowledge of the NBA feel differently?

Regardless of which player you root for or worship, my statement is true.

Hence the reason why none of us are NBA GMs.

From a production POV you're right CP3 is better but that isn't all that goes into drafting a player. I mean seriously, A.I. had worse teams than CP3 did with the Hornets but he remained faithful to the Sixers (highly doubt CP3 would) to a fault and as a result became arguably the most loved sporting hero in the City of Philadelphia not to mention its most popular/polarizing. Thus meaning his value to the franchise transcends the basketball court far more so than CP3.

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 01:30 PM
lets not forget the Sixers coming out of the "weak East" were the ONLY team to beat the Lakers in the playoffs and they did it in LA

They should have went up 2-0 in that series too but Lakers had some great home cooking from the officials at the end of game 2.

FlashBolt
11-18-2013, 01:37 PM
Iverson was better because he played every game like it was his last. Yup, literally speaking. Dude doesn't understand the importance of practice, is one of the most inefficient shot jacker of all time, horrible leadership, clearly a very low IQ, even to this day. Meanwhile you have Paul - who is an amazing leader, has the highest PER for a PG, is sixth in NBA history in PER, has been one of the most consistent players, and biggest of all, he helps his teammates get better. What has AI done? Leading his team to the very weak ECF in which a 40 win team took them to 7 games?

TheMightyHumph
11-18-2013, 01:40 PM
They should have went up 2-0 in that series too but Lakers had some great home cooking from the officials at the end of game 2.

Larry Brown wouldn't play Hack-A-Shaq.

TheMightyHumph
11-18-2013, 01:48 PM
Hence the reason why none of us are NBA GMs.

From a production POV you're right CP3 is better but that isn't all that goes into drafting a player. I mean seriously, A.I. had worse teams than CP3 did with the Hornets but he remained faithful to the Sixers (highly doubt CP3 would) to a fault and as a result became arguably the most loved sporting hero in the City of Philadelphia not to mention its most popular/polarizing. Thus meaning his value to the franchise transcends the basketball court far more so than CP3.

So you are saying NBA Execs, knowing all the ego and trouble and exasperations that come along with AI, the fact special rules have to be made for him on the team, that fact that he wants and needs to be 'main guy' on the team, that coaches will hate him, that he thinks practice is for chumps, that personnel changes have to be made according to his wishes........NBA execs would draft Iverson over Chris Paul, a great, great PG.

You must be talking about Billy King.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 01:59 PM
Hence the reason why none of us are NBA GMs.

From a production POV you're right CP3 is better but that isn't all that goes into drafting a player. I mean seriously, A.I. had worse teams than CP3 did with the Hornets but he remained faithful to the Sixers (highly doubt CP3 would) to a fault and as a result became arguably the most loved sporting hero in the City of Philadelphia not to mention its most popular/polarizing. Thus meaning his value to the franchise transcends the basketball court far more so than CP3.

Would AI have been loyal to NO?

KniCks4LiFe
11-18-2013, 02:03 PM
CP3 all day everyday. Allen Iverson not even a better shooter than Jeremy Lin. Yeah I said it. Who want to say something?

ghettosean
11-18-2013, 02:05 PM
imagine if Paul got to play in the ****** east of the early 2000's.....

I hear what you are saying but think about the team that A.I had then who is Paul going to dish to on that squad... Todd MacCulloch or Toni Kukoc, Mutombo (who pretty much has no offensive skills)... Like you said it was a ****** easy but on squads like that you needed someone to take over.

They are just 2 different beasts... It really was a hard decision but I would still pick Iverson.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:05 PM
i bet u dont discredit Wade or James for the East being weak...
I ask for clarity and you ignore several questions? Oh right.... I forgot.... AI fan.

And discredit them for what ? Their run didn't end at the Finals, they actually won it all, depending on which year you reference, some were in dominating fashion. There was nothing about AI's run that screamed dominance. It was actually quite sad to watch him struggle against such pathetic squads.


Again tho, you seriously believe AI stopped improving after his 5th season? I saw a better AI the years his teams sucked. I think Denver AI gets a bad rap too, he was still in his prime to me, clearly on the decline/tail end but he wasn't no old geezer by then.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:05 PM
after 10 years...

wat?

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 02:05 PM
Iverson was better because he played every game like it was his last. Yup, literally speaking. Dude doesn't understand the importance of practice, is one of the most inefficient shot jacker of all time, horrible leadership, clearly a very low IQ, even to this day. Meanwhile you have Paul - who is an amazing leader, has the highest PER for a PG, is sixth in NBA history in PER, has been one of the most consistent players, and biggest of all, he helps his teammates get better. What has AI done? Leading his team to the very weak ECF in which a 40 win team took them to 7 games?

no one cadres about PER. but let me list some of AI's accomplishments; MVP. know what ill stop there.

TheMightyHumph
11-18-2013, 02:08 PM
no one cadres about PER. but let me list some of AI's accomplishments; MVP. know what ill stop there.

How about the accomplishment of no team wanting him when he supposedly had some game left.

Quite impressive.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:10 PM
I hear what you are saying but think about the team that A.I had then who is Paul going to dish to on that squad... Todd MacCulloch or Toni Kukoc, Mutombo (who pretty much has no offensive skills)... Like you said it was a ****** easy but on squads like that you needed someone to take over.

They are just 2 different beasts... It really was a hard decision but I would still pick Iverson.

Philly wouldn't have surrounded CP3 with those players, I think Philly went the route they did because it was their best chance of finding a way to win with Iverson. Seemed like alot of the sidekicks they tried to get as running mates for him played better once they left his side. So rather than continue to fail to find a guy who can play with AI, they decided to get guys who can impact the game without ever touching the rock, allowing AI to chuck to his hearts content.

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 02:12 PM
Philly wouldn't have surrounded CP3 with those players, I think Philly went the route they did because it was their best chance of finding a way to win with Iverson. Seemed like alot of the sidekicks they tried to get as running mates for him played better once they left his side. So rather than continue to fail to find a guy who can play with AI, they decided to get guys who can impact the game without ever touching the rock, allowing AI to chuck to his hearts content.
Philly tried valiantly to come up with a number 2 scorer for A.I. The best they could do was Keith Van Horn and the washed up corpses of Derrick Coleman and Glenn Robinson. Pathetic.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:13 PM
A refresher? Nope. When I think of a player leading a crap team to the finals (by finals standards) I think of Barry, Hakeem, TD, Bron etc leading their teams to the finals. I would hardly call Spree or Camby (who played on the same team) leading a crap team to the finals.
Its your opinion that it was a crap team, they were the best in their conference so color me skeptical.
LOL at you putting AI with those names tho.



Remember you said plenty players have done this and many of them were inferior to CP3. I'd just like to know who these inferior players/teams are.
Im speaking about leading a team to the finals.


Try again.
LMFAO . dats cute.

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 02:14 PM
How about the accomplishment of no team wanting him when he supposedly had some game left.

Quite impressive.

No team wanted him because he lost his athleticism and he refused to take a role as 6th man. That has nothing to do with who was better in their prime.

KniCks4LiFe
11-18-2013, 02:14 PM
How about the accomplishment of no team wanting him when he supposedly had some game left.

Quite impressive.

I was an A.I. diehard. Those MVPs were tainted. When you building a team of peeps to get stop and get just you the ball, you're gonna score large amount of points. Larry Brown constructed that team specifically so A.I. can be the only top scorer.

TheMightyHumph
11-18-2013, 02:15 PM
Philly tried valiantly to come up with a number 2 scorer for A.I. The best they could do was Keith Van Horn and the washed up corpses of Derrick Coleman and Glenn Robinson. Pathetic.

And they valiantly traded Jerry Stackhouse.

THEN tried to trade Iverson to get Stackhouse back.

And Van Horn's washed up corpse was 27 years old, and had a good season with Sixers. But I guess he shot too much, so they went the washed up AND injured route with Big Dog.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:17 PM
Philly tried valiantly to come up with a number 2 scorer for A.I. The best they could do was Keith Van Horn and the washed up corpses of Derrick Coleman and Glenn Robinson. Pathetic.

Agreed, sadly my point was that it seemed many of them fared better once they left his side, so you cant really blame Philly for going the route that saw AI have his best success team wise. I dont deny they did a bad job, the best team AI ever had was in Denver. He underperformed there tho and in typical fashion, Melo had his most successful playoff run (played some D this year too) the minute AI was traded.

KniCks4LiFe
11-18-2013, 02:17 PM
Philly tried valiantly to come up with a number 2 scorer for A.I. The best they could do was Keith Van Horn and the washed up corpses of Derrick Coleman and Glenn Robinson. Pathetic.

It's not like A.I. was going to let them shoot. A.I. was about crossovers and drives to the rim. There was hardly any kick to his game.

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 02:17 PM
And they valiantly traded Jerry Stackhouse.

THEN tried to trade Iverson to get Stackhouse back.

And valiantly traded Larry Hughes. Shows the lack of brains their FO had at the time.

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 02:18 PM
How about the accomplishment of no team wanting him when he supposedly had some game left.

Quite impressive.

great response. you have nothing else you can say, literally. If/when CP3 grabs an MVP and gets to the CF try again you mgiht have something

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:19 PM
lets not forget the Sixers coming out of the "weak East" were the ONLY team to beat the Lakers in the playoffs and they did it in LA

Lets not forget how long the Lakers had to wait for Philly to FINALLY defeat these laughable squads. Nor how controversial that Milwaukee series was. Lakers were hella rusty, Kobe went from crushing teams to falling back down to earth in the Finals.

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 02:19 PM
Philly wouldn't have surrounded CP3 with those players, I think Philly went the route they did because it was their best chance of finding a way to win with Iverson. Seemed like alot of the sidekicks they tried to get as running mates for him played better once they left his side. So rather than continue to fail to find a guy who can play with AI, they decided to get guys who can impact the game without ever touching the rock, allowing AI to chuck to his hearts content.

they played better bcuz they were not the #2 option anymore, something that werent good enoguh to do. I dont think many went on to have nuch success anyway.

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 02:21 PM
Lets not forget how long the Lakers had to wait for Philly to FINALLY defeat these laughable squads. Nor how controversial that Milwaukee series was. Lakers were hella rusty, Kobe went from crushing teams to falling back down to earth in the Finals.

now you are just making an excuse

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 02:21 PM
It's not like A.I. was going to let them shoot. A.I. was about crossovers and drives to the rim. There was hardly any kick to his game.

You could say the same thing about VC/Kobe/T-Mac.

waveycrockett
11-18-2013, 02:22 PM
Lets not forget how long the Lakers had to wait for Philly to FINALLY defeat these laughable squads. Nor how controversial that Milwaukee series was. Lakers were hella rusty, Kobe went from crushing teams to falling back down to earth in the Finals.

Your known on PSD as a stats guy and then you come with this crap?

TheMightyHumph
11-18-2013, 02:26 PM
You could say the same thing about VC/Kobe/T-Mac.

Okay

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:27 PM
Coaching,
So you really mean to tell me you need a great coach to convince a player to defer? That sounds like a liability Im not willing to deal with.


support, system and FO.
Support is definitely arguable, tho I still worry about how AI meshes with said support. System? Wat about it?
FO was inept, lots of stars had inept front offices without me worrying about how they blend with others. Still, its ridiculous how bad Eastern teams were run back then.


I mean really any elite offensive player who played with the type of casts A.I. played with would average 20+ FGA comfortable. Even the CP3s and Steve Nash's of the world.
I mean when you have one player who was at least an average offensive player on your team other than yourself you really don't have much of a choice.
I highly doubt it, more importantly, I dont get the feeling teams would have to worry about how to build around those players the same way they did with AI. You didn't need to find very exclusive players to allow AI to play SG while not having to defend them on the other end. And not have to worry about running his teams offense as a full time PG.



As for who I'd pic I'd say CP3 is the better/more talented player but A.I. was just a warrior and my irrational love for him makes it tough for me to go against him for a plethora of reasons. So I'd draft A.I. because of the simple fact that I'm stupidly in love with the man. :shrug:
About the only thing we agree on.

Jamiecballer
11-18-2013, 02:31 PM
Hence the reason why none of us are NBA GMs.

From a production POV you're right CP3 is better but that isn't all that goes into drafting a player. I mean seriously, A.I. had worse teams than CP3 did with the Hornets but he remained faithful to the Sixers (highly doubt CP3 would) to a fault and as a result became arguably the most loved sporting hero in the City of Philadelphia not to mention its most popular/polarizing. Thus meaning his value to the franchise transcends the basketball court far more so than CP3.

i don't think Iverson was overly faithful. how many other franchises do you think would have allowed him to make a mockery of team basketball, AND bend over backwards to construct a roster that supported his selfish tendencies? not many.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:31 PM
Your known on PSD as a stats guy and then you come with this crap?
I only put in as much effort as required to contest the point raised. Do I really need to show you the crap efficiency of Eastern squads that year or how different Kobe's level of play is?

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:37 PM
they played better bcuz they were not the #2 option anymore, something that werent good enoguh to do. I dont think many went on to have nuch success anyway.
Maybe, never actually investigated the matter. That said, I dont trust blind analysis, some players play much better as sidekicks so I dont live life by extreme rules.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:40 PM
now you are just making an excuse
WAIT ..

So your saying there is no chance the team that had to wait sooooo long for Philly to finally make the Finals had some effects of that layoff?


Its a moot point however, its not like Philly was the 2nd best team because they got a single win, thats like saying the sub.500 Atlanta Hawks were the 2nd best team because they pushed the Celtics to 7 while the FAR superior Pistons/Lakers only pushed them to 6.

In the Philly example, at least there is the explanation of a LONG layoff.

FlashBolt
11-18-2013, 02:42 PM
Iverson was better because he played every game like it was his last. Yup, literally speaking. Dude doesn't understand the importance of practice, is one of the most inefficient shot jacker of all time, horrible leadership, clearly a very low IQ, even to this day. Meanwhile you have Paul - who is an amazing leader, has the highest PER for a PG, is sixth in NBA history in PER, has been one of the most consistent players, and biggest of all, he helps his teammates get better. What has AI done? Leading his team to the very weak ECF in which a 40 win team took them to 7 games?

no one cadres about PER. but let me list some of AI's accomplishments; MVP. know what ill stop there.

What....? So Derrick Rose is better than CP3? Cool.

Chronz
11-18-2013, 02:42 PM
You could say the same thing about VC/Kobe/T-Mac.

How so?

2-ONE-5
11-18-2013, 02:44 PM
i don't think Iverson was overly faithful. how many other franchises do you think would have allowed him to make a mockery of team basketball, AND bend over backwards to construct a roster that supported his selfish tendencies? not many.

lol what? Now the Sixers bent over backwards to give him a roster of below average players just so he could be the man? get the **** out of here with that nonsense