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View Full Version : Is Carmelo Anthony even a star?



GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 10:53 AM
I remember poster saying he is a superstar, he's better than Durant offensively etc... To be truthful I'm sick and tired if this guy and poster labeling him "Star". IMO he's neither a superstar or a star... He's just a volume scorer that can put up 40 when he's hot but scores 28 points on 48 attempt on a consistent bases. Idc if he won the scoring title last year, the east wasn't very good and against good teams like Bulls, Pacers etc he sucked. Jimmy Butler owns him. He rarely plays defense and might have the lowest IQ for a guy with his talent. Anthony Randolph and Carmelo Anthony offensive IQ's are on par. This coming from a Knicks fan I pray he leaves via free agency after this season. Like seriously what makes him any different than Monta Ellis?

Beltrans Mole
11-07-2013, 11:01 AM
I don't think there's a Carnelo Anthony in the NBA, I'll have to check let me get back to you.

Quinnsanity
11-07-2013, 11:05 AM
I agree with a good chunk of this. I want Carmelo to leave. This team can't win a title as currently constructed.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:06 AM
I don't think there's a Carnelo Anthony in the NBA, I'll have to check let me get back to you.

Sorry its Carmela

Swashcuff
11-07-2013, 11:07 AM
Short answer yes long answer hell yes.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:08 AM
Short answer yes long answer hell yes.

Explain?

4milesperday
11-07-2013, 11:12 AM
Talking about low IQ, the thread starter don't seem too bright to judge someone else.

PhillyFaninLA
11-07-2013, 11:13 AM
I am as critical as it come about Carmelo....I stand behind every comment I have said and still mean them now....but, he is unquestionably an offensive star almost as good as it comes but he doesn't really give you anything else

phoenix_bladen
11-07-2013, 11:17 AM
he's definitely a star but he's probably not one of the top 5 elite superstars that really guarantees you a top 3 record like a lebron or durant. A player that can guarantee your team to get into the playoffs but not instant contender status like a lebron.

melo is just good offensively, everything else is just average.

Can u win with Melo? I'm sure you can build a team around him but u really need to surround him with other role players that picks up his weaknesses and probably a 2nd or 3rd star on the same team.

Hell even Lebron couldn't win a ring until he teamed up with wade and bosh and Lebron is way better player than Melo.

The NBA is just really really hard that's what u guys need to realize.

To be fair, Melo guided the knicks to a 54 win team last year without a true 2nd star. People fail to realize he did this in spite of an injuried Amare. Everyone sh.its on Amare nowadays because he's washed up but once upon a time he was the man of NY and the 2nd star that other players would actually team up with to lead a team in a 1-2 punch.

If Amare was actually healthy his whole tenure here with the knicks at the same time with Melo then maybe the Knicks wouldn't be mediocre.

I am a knick fan but in all honesty they wont' win a ring this year for sure. The team is poor constructed and they mortgaged a lot of their future assets to try to win now.

birdmann5
11-07-2013, 11:17 AM
What is the difference between Al Jefferson and Carmelo Anthony besides position?

I am as critical as it come about Carmelo....I stand behind every comment I have said and still mean them now....but, he is unquestionably an offensive star almost as good as it comes but he doesn't really give you anything else

Slug3
11-07-2013, 11:17 AM
A NY fan should be able to answer this. But does he ever work on his game in the offseason? If so I never see anything new from the guy.

BklynKnicks3
11-07-2013, 11:19 AM
some people shouldn't be allowed to talk about basketball. 6 time all star 2 gold medals, fresh of top 3 in mvp and 54 wins,scoring title with out a 2nd option. Only none spur to make playoffs 9 strait years. Lets send him to d league

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:19 AM
Talking about low IQ, the thread starter don't seem too bright to judge someone else.

But you didn't start the thread

Jamiecballer
11-07-2013, 11:20 AM
he's definitely a star. but he's treated like a superstar, which he is not.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:21 AM
he's definitely a star but he's probably not one of the top 5 elite superstars that really guarantees you a top 3 record like a lebron or durant. A player that can guarantee your team to get into the playoffs but not instant contender status like a lebron.

melo is just good offensively, everything else is just average.

Can u win with Melo? I'm sure you can build a team around him but u really need to surround him with other role players that picks up his weaknesses and probably a 2nd or 3rd star on the same team.

Hell even Lebron couldn't win a ring until he teamed up with wade and bosh and Lebron is way better player than Melo.

The NBA is just really really hard that's what u guys need to realize.

Melo got passed the 1st round twice, LeBron 8 times... Been to the finals 3 times once without Wade or bosh. Hell LeBron made the finals with probably the worst roster in NBA history

4milesperday
11-07-2013, 11:22 AM
But you didn't start the thread

Anyone that will say Melo is not a star in this league should be perma banned. You have no business talking about sports...

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:22 AM
Again what makes him a star? He's not an efficient score? He needs 30 shots to reach 30 points, he doesn't score well against above average to elite defenders.... How is he a star? What makes him any different from Monta Ellis and Al Jefferson besides position?

Ill21
11-07-2013, 11:23 AM
But you didn't start the thread

Ooo Kill Em

big_w
11-07-2013, 11:24 AM
Holy crap, this thread is better than marijuana brownies. :D

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:24 AM
Anyone that will say Melo is not a star in this league should be perma banned. You have no business talking about sports...

And you have no business talking period!!! If you can't give a reasonable explanation then shut up

Beltrans Mole
11-07-2013, 11:24 AM
Melo got passed the 1st round twice, LeBron 8 times... Been to the finals 3 times once without Wade or bosh. Hell LeBron made the finals with probably the worst roster in NBA history

Yes, Melo is not LeBron. Everyone knows that so it's not worth comparing them anymore. No one is LeBron...just because Melo isn't one of the best players to ever play in the NBA doesn't mean he's not a current NBA star. The Knicks are 1-3 we get it, no need to freak out with 78 games left.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:25 AM
Ooo Kill Em

I'm bout to Trio on these hoes

DreamShaker
11-07-2013, 11:25 AM
He can score in pretty much any way possible, which only a handful of guys in the NBA can. He has just been horrible so far this year, but so have a few other guys.

Ill21
11-07-2013, 11:26 AM
I am starting to dislike Melo after watching him play everyday for 3 years. He is just so lazy sometimes and it is clear he just zones out and doesn't care. Does he have the talent to be a star? Yes. However he is no where near consistent enough to have that label.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Yes, Melo is not LeBron. Everyone knows that so it's not worth comparing them anymore. No one is LeBron...just because Melo isn't one of the best players to ever play in the NBA doesn't mean he's not a current NBA star. The Knicks are 1-3 we get it, no need to freak out with 78 games left.

I'm talking about his whole career... Again it's not about him being LeBron but in general, Pierce, Wade, Durant etc have had more success than this guy in one year than Melo has in his career!

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:28 AM
He can score in pretty much any way possible, which only a handful of guys in the NBA can. He has just been horrible so far this year, but so have a few other guys.

So can Monta Ellis

4milesperday
11-07-2013, 11:30 AM
And you have no business talking period!!! If you can't give a reasonable explanation then shut up

Reasonable explanation to an unreasonable post. Top 2 leading scorer in the league for the past couple of years is not a star? It's best to remain silent and be thought of as a fool than to open your yap and remove all doubt. You either revel in ignorance or your IQ needs genetic makeover.

yanksrock
11-07-2013, 11:32 AM
Here we go again.

PhillyFaninLA
11-07-2013, 11:33 AM
Anyone that will say Melo is not a star in this league should be perma banned. You have no business talking about sports...

Anyone that does not allow someone to have an opinion should be perma banned from message boards, social networking, and well the internet in general

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:33 AM
Reasonable explanation to an unreasonable post. Top 2 leading scorer in the league for the past couple of years is not a star? It's best to remain silent and be thought of as a fool than to open your yap and remove all doubt. You either revel in ignorance or your IQ needs genetic makeover.

You can say the same about Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:33 AM
Anyone that does not allow someone to have an opinion should be perma banned from message boards, social networking, and well the internet in general

Leave it alone he has nothing better to do. He's probably 15

yanksrock
11-07-2013, 11:33 AM
This debate pops up every time Melo misses a shot.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:34 AM
And I see bring up the fact he can score... Like I said Al Jefferson, Ellis and Kevin Martin can score and at one point were top scorers in the league but were never label a star

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:35 AM
This debate pops up every time Melo misses a shot.

So we talk about this every game?

4milesperday
11-07-2013, 11:35 AM
You can say the same about Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin.

Well you keep confirming how clueless you really are...comparing Monta Elis and Kevin Martin to Melo? how many All star or ALL NBA team have those guys been on? You're not too good at this...give it up, you're getting more ridiculous

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 11:38 AM
Well you keep confirming how clueless you really are...comparing Monta Elis and Kevin Martin to Melo? how many All star or ALL NBA team have those guys been on? You're not too good at this...give it up, you're getting more ridiculous

So all stars and the number of teams determines how good you are? Lol I'm done with you

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-07-2013, 11:45 AM
Truth hurts.

Gibby23
11-07-2013, 11:58 AM
I remember poster saying he is a superstar, he's better than Durant offensively etc... To be truthful I'm sick and tired if this guy and poster labeling him "Star". IMO he's neither a superstar or a star... He's just a volume scorer that can put up 40 when he's hot but scores 28 points on 48 attempt on a consistent bases. Idc if he won the scoring title last year, the east wasn't very good and against good teams like Bulls, Pacers etc he sucked. Jimmy Butler owns him. He rarely plays defense and might have the lowest IQ for a guy with his talent. Anthony Randolph and Carmelo Anthony offensive IQ's are on par. This coming from a Knicks fan I pray he leaves via free agency after this season. Like seriously what makes him any different than Monta Ellis?

He plays for a bad team. The knicks have no number 2, the guy they thought could be that guy (Amare) is done. If Amare never would have gotten hurt and Tyson could stay healthy, he would look better, but who else to other teams have to worry about? The Knicks messed up on the rebuild and have to hit the reset button again.

GrumpyOldMan
11-07-2013, 11:58 AM
Superstar is a word that gets thrown around way too easily IMO. I don't believe a one dimensional player can ever be considered a superstar. A superstar has to be a scorer, a distributor and want to defend the other team's best player. Jordan did these things. Lebron does it all well too. Carmelo is a good scorer, but he is completely one dimensional and far from a superstar IMO.

FOBolous
11-07-2013, 12:03 PM
would you Knicks fan rather have Carmelo or Lin?

Ill21
11-07-2013, 12:30 PM
would you Knicks fan rather have Carmelo or Lin?

Obviously Carmelo, but I don't want my team being built around him. His role was perfect on the Olympic team as a second or sometimes a third option.

ewing
11-07-2013, 12:34 PM
What is the difference between Al Jefferson and Carmelo Anthony besides position?

Carmelo cad handle the rock, play screen roll, come off screens as a catch and shoot guy, play in the post, finish on the break, he is a pretty good passer as well. I also think Mello is a better defender and generally plays with a better motor then Al. Al has great foot in the post

4milesperday
11-07-2013, 12:34 PM
So all stars and the number of teams determines how good you are? Lol I'm done with you

All NBA team selections and All Star appearances does not determine how good you are? Did you actually believe that or are you forrest gumping, I mean trolling with the thread?

ewing
11-07-2013, 12:36 PM
he's definitely a star but he's probably not one of the top 5 elite superstars that really guarantees you a top 3 record like a lebron or durant. A player that can guarantee your team to get into the playoffs but not instant contender status like a lebron.

melo is just good offensively, everything else is just average.

Can u win with Melo? I'm sure you can build a team around him but u really need to surround him with other role players that picks up his weaknesses and probably a 2nd or 3rd star on the same team.

Hell even Lebron couldn't win a ring until he teamed up with wade and bosh and Lebron is way better player than Melo.

The NBA is just really really hard that's what u guys need to realize.

To be fair, Melo guided the knicks to a 54 win team last year without a true 2nd star. People fail to realize he did this in spite of an injuried Amare. Everyone sh.its on Amare nowadays because he's washed up but once upon a time he was the man of NY and the 2nd star that other players would actually team up with to lead a team in a 1-2 punch.

If Amare was actually healthy his whole tenure here with the knicks at the same time with Melo then maybe the Knicks wouldn't be mediocre.

I am a knick fan but in all honesty they wont' win a ring this year for sure. The team is poor constructed and they mortgaged a lot of their future assets to try to win now.

this. Melo is a star. Is he has good as Bron? No but he is a star

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 12:38 PM
he's definitely a star. but he's treated like a superstar, which he is not.

Treated like a superstar by whom? Definitely not the refs.

ewing
11-07-2013, 12:38 PM
Melo got passed the 1st round twice, LeBron 8 times... Been to the finals 3 times once without Wade or bosh. Hell LeBron made the finals with probably the worst roster in NBA history

and he didn't want to sign in NY. Only one team gets to have Bron. Melo lead the Knicks to 54 wins last year. If you look at that team, that is a damn good record and Melo deserves to gets a lot of the credit for it. Is he a star? Yes

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 12:38 PM
would you Knicks fan rather have Carmelo or Lin?

Really?

Beltrans Mole
11-07-2013, 12:40 PM
It's really a shame how much people overreact after four games. If you think Melo is going to be playing this poorly all year you are clueless. He played like crap against Charlotte and still scored 32 points. He's not a great defender but he doesn't get the credit he deserves for his all-around offensive arsenal. Not having JR Smith is also a bigger factor than people are willing to admit for some reason.

mavwar53
11-07-2013, 12:41 PM
Carmelo Anthony is not a star, stars make their team better, Melo is all about Melo. Poor D, poor passer, great with the ball, poor leadership, not a star.

ewing
11-07-2013, 12:47 PM
Superstar is a word that gets thrown around way too easily IMO. I don't believe a one dimensional player can ever be considered a superstar. A superstar has to be a scorer, a distributor and want to defend the other team's best player. Jordan did these things. Lebron does it all well too. Carmelo is a good scorer, but he is completely one dimensional and far from a superstar IMO.


this isn't fair either. Melo creates a lot of offensive and not just his own. He is a great ball handler for his size, he is a big the stretches the floor, he is a 3/4 that can play in screen roll, a excellent post player, he is a adapt passer (not Bron but very good for a forward), and a reasonable rebounder. The fact that he isn't elite at everything does not make him one dimensional.

SLY WILLIAMS
11-07-2013, 12:49 PM
I do not like some of the things he does or says but he is definitely a star player.

therealwd27
11-07-2013, 12:50 PM
Carmelo Anthony is not a star, stars make their team better, Melo is all about Melo. Poor D, poor passer, great with the ball, poor leadership, not a star.

Pretty much this. Stars make there team better, lead by example and hustle hard on both ends of the floor from tipoff until the final buzzer sounds. I honestly do not see the motivation from Melo and stop with the 4 game crap this is his whole career, he's never seemed to into it. He needs a stronger coach who can check his ego at the door not run ISO ISO ISO every play. He can score with the best of them but that's about it. Is he a solid piece sure, but is he the best piece on a championship team definitely not.

KnickaBocka.44
11-07-2013, 01:03 PM
If Paul Pierce was a star before the big 3 in Boston then Melo is absolutely a star.

The Knicks might be totally corn-holed this year, but it's not on Melo.

Stinkyoutsider
11-07-2013, 01:06 PM
Star? Absolutely, without a doubt. Superstar? Not sure at this point...

You look at the guys who are superstars in the league like Lebron, Durant, Paul. These guys dominate at every phase of the game and gives their team what they lack. Superstars seem like they're just not the best at one or two categories, but they're the best at multiple categories. Top level game skills combined with being a great athlete and being an intelligent player make these guys superstars.

I don't think Melo is necessarily a part of this group right now but he's 1 tier below. He's got the ability to dominate when it comes to scoring the ball but can he dominate the glass, be a top class playmaker for his teammates, or lock down his defensive assignment on a regular basis? That's the real question.

All superstars/stars need at least one equal on their team to have a chance at winning titles. Lebron picked up Wade and Durant has Westbrook. Someone on the same level of overall talent.

I can't call Melo a superstar right now but if he continues to improve in other areas of the game, then he'll be joining the group.

Jamiecballer
11-07-2013, 01:11 PM
Treated like a superstar by whom? Definitely not the refs.

not necessarily the refs. just the basketball community in general.

xxplayerxx23
11-07-2013, 01:12 PM
1- he can score just as good as anyone. He commands a double team.

He rebounds with the best of his position,
Nobody wins on their own in the league. Nobody does nobody ever will.give melo.

Lebron has wade and bosh
Wade had shaq
Kobe had shaq and pau, Bynum etc
Jordon had pippen rodman
Name me one superstar that did it without a true number 2. Add rondo (even though he is no star) or love any secondary option to him would make his team scary to anyone. You need to stop this. Is he as good as Lebron kd Paul? No but that's why they are the best 4 in the world

TorontoHuskies
11-07-2013, 01:22 PM
Yes he is, he's just not playing like one because he too busy dreaming about this years off season.

todu82
11-07-2013, 01:31 PM
I think he is a star player. That said he shouldn't be a team's #1 option.

Gibby23
11-07-2013, 01:31 PM
1- he can score just as good as anyone. He commands a double team.

He rebounds with the best of his position,
Nobody wins on their own in the league. Nobody does nobody ever will.give melo.

Lebron has wade and bosh
Wade had shaq
Kobe had shaq and pau, Bynum etc
Jordon had pippen rodman
Name me one superstar that did it without a true number 2. Add rondo (even though he is no star) or love any secondary option to him would make his team scary to anyone. You need to stop this. Is he as good as Lebron kd Paul? No but that's why they are the best 4 in the world

Dirk and Hakeem.

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 01:40 PM
Carmelo Anthony is not a star, stars make their team better, Melo is all about Melo. Poor D, poor passer, great with the ball, poor leadership, not a star.

Lmao so Melo didn't make the Nuggets/Knicks better? Ok...

justinnum1
11-07-2013, 01:44 PM
he's an overrated inefficient chucker lmao. And people use to argue with me that he is a superstar. LMFAO!!!!!!!:laugh:

justinnum1
11-07-2013, 01:46 PM
some people shouldn't be allowed to talk about basketball. 6 time all star 2 gold medals, fresh of top 3 in mvp and 54 wins,scoring title with out a 2nd option. Only none spur to make playoffs 9 strait years. Lets send him to d league

He's a hack LMAO! He is a number 2 option at best masquerading as a #1 option. Anyone with half a brain knows that any team with melo being the best player won't ever win a ring.

Combine this perennial loser chucker with woodson and it spells nothing but false hope and disaster.

Then again, as soon as the knicks win 3 in a row melo will be the goat.




:laugh:

meloman1592
11-07-2013, 01:47 PM
Treated like a superstar by whom? Definitely not the refs.

Bang

justinnum1
11-07-2013, 01:49 PM
Bang

YES! YES! BLAME THE REFS!!!!!!!

:laugh2:

NJBASEBALL22
11-07-2013, 01:53 PM
I am as critical as it come about Carmelo....I stand behind every comment I have said and still mean them now....but, he is unquestionably an offensive star almost as good as it comes but he doesn't really give you anything else

I don't even agree with that... He is a star when it comes to putting the ball in the basket but that is it. His passing is below average, his court vision (ie. seeing open men) is below average, his offensive game hinders the entire offense because he is a "Ball Stopper". He will jab step and pump fake you to death but he doesn't create off of the drive. For someone his size, he isn't that great in the post, he is all right. Volume scorer and that is it. Poor leader too.

meloman1592
11-07-2013, 01:57 PM
Carmelo is a superstar based on the critique. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be bashed for failing. Monta Ellis ever get bashed because his team sucked? Exactly. Everything falls squarely on his shoulders just like lebron, Rose etc. If u swapped a"one dimensional" scorer like Kevin Martin or monta, would the Knicks have any expectations? Nobody can take over a game on the offensive side of the ball better than he can, other than maybe healthy Kobe. And my last point...he does not have the proper supporting cast. You guys in psd all throw dirt on bargs, Amare, Felton, jr even. You call shumpert nothing more than mediocre and Tyson is nothing but a defender....so if all this is true, how exactly do we expect melo to succeed? Where is his 2nd star? If he's not a superstar, then the media and and psd should stop criticizing him as such

Kashmir13579
11-07-2013, 01:57 PM
He's not an efficient score? He needs 30 shots to reach 30 points, he doesn't score well against above average to elite defenders....

Are you just figuring this out now?

meloman1592
11-07-2013, 01:58 PM
YES! YES! BLAME THE REFS!!!!!!!

:laugh2:

I missed the joke

Kashmir13579
11-07-2013, 01:58 PM
he's an overrated inefficient chucker lmao. And people use to argue with me that he is a superstar. LMFAO!!!!!!!:laugh:


He's a hack LMAO! He is a number 2 option at best masquerading as a #1 option. Anyone with half a brain knows that any team with melo being the best player won't ever win a ring.

Combine this perennial loser chucker with woodson and it spells nothing but false hope and disaster.

Then again, as soon as the knicks win 3 in a row melo will be the goat.




:laugh:

Don't get so excited..

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 02:02 PM
Are you just figuring this out now?

No but other Knicks fans/posters don't seem to get it. They think he can score in every way makes him a star. The guys is an inffencient scorer and needs 30 to 40 att to reach 30 points!

NJBASEBALL22
11-07-2013, 02:06 PM
and he didn't want to sign in NY. Only one team gets to have Bron. Melo lead the Knicks to 54 wins last year. If you look at that team, that is a damn good record and Melo deserves to gets a lot of the credit for it. Is he a star? Yes

He actually only led them to 47 wins because he played in only 67 games. And in 4 of those 67 games he scored less than 10 points, the Knicks were 3-1 in those games.

And in the 47 wins he played in, 7 times he had a negative or zero plus/minus, meaning his team/squad/unit/whatever were outscored while he was on the court.

meloman1592
11-07-2013, 02:08 PM
I would agree with this nonsense if melo was on a super team or even a contending team and he was the one dragging them down due to poor shot selection and taking shots away from another star. This is not the case

JordansBulls
11-07-2013, 02:10 PM
Of course he is a superstar, dumb thread. How many nonstars are able to win the scoring title?

I Rock Shaqs
11-07-2013, 02:15 PM
I think Carmelo is in the same boat as Kevin Love, maybe even Kevin Martin when he was with the Kings.

NJBASEBALL22
11-07-2013, 02:17 PM
Carmelo is a superstar based on the critique. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be bashed for failing. Monta Ellis ever get bashed because his team sucked? Exactly. Everything falls squarely on his shoulders just like lebron, Rose etc. If u swapped a"one dimensional" scorer like Kevin Martin or monta, would the Knicks have any expectations? Nobody can take over a game on the offensive side of the ball better than he can, other than maybe healthy Kobe. And my last point...he does not have the proper supporting cast. You guys in psd all throw dirt on bargs, Amare, Felton, jr even. You call shumpert nothing more than mediocre and Tyson is nothing but a defender....so if all this is true, how exactly do we expect melo to succeed? Where is his 2nd star? If he's not a superstar, then the media and and psd should stop criticizing him as such

Clearly, you have never watched Lebron, Durant, or Wade play. Have you?

Hell, the problem I have with that statement is that you say "offense", when what you mean is "scoring" because guys like CP3, James Harden, Irving, Paul George, Deron Williams (not this season), Steph Curry, etc... are all more valuable on "Offense" even though they may not be the "scorer" that Carmelo Anthony is.

And as a scorer, Carmelo isn't nearly efficient enough to be considered elite in my book. I mean, World B. Free, who was a 6'2 guard who scored 30 a game one season (which, btw... Carmelo has never) and averaged 25 a game for most of his career has the same shooting percentage from the field as Carmelo. A 6'2 guard shoots the same as a 6'8, 240 forward. Anthony's game just is conducive with winning. He settles for long J's way too often. And that is his problem. He is LeMarcus Adridge.

meloman1592
11-07-2013, 02:25 PM
To each their own

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 02:35 PM
He is a star. All stars have their flaws except for LBJ. If I were a Knick fan I would want his conditioning to be a little better though. He has always seemed to have too much junk in the trunk which prohibits him from playing defense consistently. Plus he does not create for others. His offensive and defensive ratings are too close together. But yeah.... I better stop before I talk myself out of my original statement

koreancabbage
11-07-2013, 02:41 PM
so whats the difference between Melo and say, Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis?

I don't think I saw a single legit response to this.

ewing
11-07-2013, 02:44 PM
He actually only led them to 47 wins because he played in only 67 games. And in 4 of those 67 games he scored less than 10 points, the Knicks were 3-1 in those games.

And in the 47 wins he played in, 7 times he had a negative or zero plus/minus, meaning his team/squad/unit/whatever were outscored while he was on the court.

So you are saying they were 7 and 15 without him but 47 and 20 with him, that he hit double figures in 63 of his 67 games, and that combinations that included him being on the floor had a net positive impact in 40 out of those 47 wins? Thanks, good points here. The Knicks clearly owe a large portion of last year's success to Carmelo Anthony.

Kashmir13579
11-07-2013, 02:46 PM
so whats the difference between Melo and say, Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis?

I don't think I saw a single legit response to this.

lol i guess you haven't seen Kevin Martin play

koreancabbage
11-07-2013, 02:49 PM
lol i guess you haven't seen Kevin Martin play

back when he was actually good. Kevin Martin nowadays is relatively quiet, but he could score in so many variety of ways, people actually thought he was a star in the making - which is about consistency.

Carmelo can chuck as many shots and still average 25+ppg while the other two can't chuck as many b/c their coaches won't allow it LOL.

Kashmir13579
11-07-2013, 02:51 PM
back when he was actually good. Kevin Martin nowadays is relatively quiet, but he could score in so many variety of ways, people actually thought he was a star in the making - which is about consistency.

Carmelo can chuck as many shots and still average 25+ppg while the other two can't chuck as many b/c their coaches won't allow it LOL.There is nothing you can say. Its an awful comparison.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 02:52 PM
so whats the difference between Melo and say, Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis?

I don't think I saw a single legit response to this.

I looked at the advanced numbers for both Martin and Melo thinking I was going to answer this easily but I find that if I posted them they just might prove your argument so I'll let you do you provide your own eveidence. lol

NJBASEBALL22
11-07-2013, 02:56 PM
So you are saying they were 7 and 15 without him but 47 and 20 with him, that he hit double figures in 63 of his 67 games, and that combinations that included him being on the floor had a net positive impact in 40 out of those 47 wins? Thanks, good points here. The Knicks clearly owe a large portion of last year's success to Carmelo Anthony.

Large? No. Not large. They actually owe a large portion of credit to their defense which was 7th in the league... which, Melo had little impact on.

koreancabbage
11-07-2013, 02:57 PM
I looked at the advanced numbers for both Martin and Melo thinking I was going to answer this easily but I find that if I posted them they just might prove your argument so I'll let you do you provide your own eveidence. lol

LOL, right?

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 02:59 PM
He is a star. All stars have their flaws except for LBJ. If I were a Knick fan I would want his conditioning to be a little better though. He has always seemed to have too much junk in the trunk which prohibits him from playing defense consistently. Plus he does not create for others. His offensive and defensive ratings are too close together. But yeah.... I better stop before I talk myself out of my original statement

Melo is in great shape. Dude is leading the league in minutes played, his conditioning is fine. Also, Melo is not fat. He might look it because of the padding he wears under his jersey, but he is far from fat.

Pic from the summer: http://www.vibevixen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/vibe-vixen-carmelo-anthony-instagram-beach-workout.png

Fat ****.

ewing
11-07-2013, 03:03 PM
Large? No. Not large. They actually owe a large portion of credit to their defense which was 7th in the league... which, Melo had little impact on.


quit while you are behind

koreancabbage
11-07-2013, 03:05 PM
Large? No. Not large. They actually owe a large portion of credit to their defense which was 7th in the league... which, Melo had little impact on.

give credit to Woodson. Not Melo. Melo has garnered too much praise that he doesn't deserve. People say Melo won them 54 games but thats probably half true. His offense provided the base that they needed to score. sure without his offense, they would have lost a lot more games. But his DWS was the worse last year of his career, as a basis of an argument, even though were a middle of the pack in defensive efficiency, they were the 7th best team in points allowed. That was contributed to team defense.

After looking at that, Melo needs some help but he isn't helping his own cause with his piss poor defense.

KnickFanSince91
11-07-2013, 03:10 PM
He's as much as a star as Derrick Rose

ewing
11-07-2013, 03:14 PM
give credit to Woodson. Not Melo. Melo has garnered too much praise that he doesn't deserve. People say Melo won them 54 games but thats probably half true. His offense provided the base that they needed to score. sure without his offense, they would have lost a lot more games. But his DWS was the worse last year of his career, as a basis of an argument, even though were a middle of the pack in defensive efficiency, they were the 7th best team in points allowed. That was contributed to team defense.

After looking at that, Melo needs some help but he isn't helping his own cause with his piss poor defense.


Woodson was out there winning game and even though the team would have lost a lot more without him, he is not helping his own cause. Strong theory.

Chronz
11-07-2013, 03:15 PM
so whats the difference between Melo and say, Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis?

I don't think I saw a single legit response to this.

The ability to draw double teams. Thats almost a litmus test for stars or something of an exoneration for inefficiency.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 03:16 PM
Melo is in great shape. Dude is leading the league in minutes played, his conditioning is fine. Also, Melo is not fat. He might look it because of the padding he wears under his jersey, but he is far from fat.

Pic from the summer: http://www.vibevixen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/vibe-vixen-carmelo-anthony-instagram-beach-workout.png

Fat ****.

I should clarify. I didn't mean fat. No NBA player is really "fat" Even Shaq at his worse had a relatively flat stomach. But Melo does not have definition. Which means there is probably 10 to 15 pounds of excess weight that he could cut off. That amount of weight loss would give him so much more energy.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 03:17 PM
I looked at the advanced numbers for both Martin and Melo thinking I was going to answer this easily but I find that if I posted them they just might prove your argument so I'll let you do you provide your own eveidence. lol

Lol Kevin Martin was never a star right? Put Kevin Martin on the Knicks and he'll average 24 ppg easily

Chronz
11-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Melo used to be fat, his best seasons in terms of conditioning have come in years where he worked out with Team USA. But I think thats behind him now, athletes should change their diet/workout habits as they age.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 03:20 PM
The ability to draw double teams. Thats almost a litmus test for stars or something of an exoneration for inefficiency.

Good point. The defense goes in knowing they have to stop Melo. They know Kevin Martin is not going to create his own shot so he will be at the 3 point line or cutting off a screen. Essentially being a hyper efficient roll player. But wouldn't you agree that Melo has not done as well as he could as far as creating for others when those double teams come?

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 03:20 PM
The ability to draw double teams. Thats almost a litmus test for stars or something of an exoneration for inefficiency.

The funny thing is, if teams take a page out of Chicago books all you really have to do is get him out of his spots which is the elbow and force him to create his own shot which he's not good at. Plus he's an inefficient scorer who takes horrible shots. I don't get why don't figure out you have to double this guy all game

ramsizzle
11-07-2013, 03:23 PM
Melo with the defensive attention that a Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis get .... absolute domination. The man draws double teams all day because he is the only threat on the court offensively.

LongIslandIcedZ
11-07-2013, 03:24 PM
I dont think so.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 03:25 PM
Good point. The defense goes in knowing they have to stop Melo. They know Kevin Martin is not going to create his own shot so he will be at the 3 point line or cutting off a screen. Essentially being a hyper efficient roll player. But wouldn't you agree that Melo has not done as well as he could as far as creating for others when those double teams come?

Melo isn't good creating his own shot. His best season last year is because Kidd got him in the right spots to be affective!

ewing
11-07-2013, 03:32 PM
Melo isn't good creating his own shot. His best season last year is because Kidd got him in the right spots to be affective!

Melo is a better catch and shoot player then anyone that doesn't watch regularly notices. Its a shame he really doesn't seem to gravitate to this part of his game more. When able to get a look off the catch or off only one dribble Melo is a heck of a shooter. I think that is my biggest complaint about his game. He should move without the ball better, he should look for these type of opportunities more, and the team should use him coming off pin downs and other types of motion. I think part of the reason they don't is his love with the post.

KnickaBocka.44
11-07-2013, 03:36 PM
No but other Knicks fans/posters don't seem to get it. They think he can score in every way makes him a star. The guys is an inffencient scorer and needs 30 to 40 att to reach 30 points!

Melo took 30+ shots in 4/67 games in the regular season last year, 5/79 if you count the playoffs. He scored 30+ in 31/67 games in the regular season, 36/79 if you count the playoffs.

You're greatly exaggerating.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 03:38 PM
Melo is a better catch and shoot player then anyone that doesn't watch regularly notices. Its a shame he really doesn't seem to gravitate to this part of his game more. When able to get a look off the catch or off only one dribble Melo is a heck of a shooter. I think that is my biggest complaint about his game. He should move without the ball better, he should look for these type of opportunities more, and the team should use him coming off pin downs and other types of motion. I think part of the reason they don't is his love with the post.

This, I am sure there is a stat to prove or disprove this but every time I see him catch and shoot its a splash. Its when he stares down his defender with the ball too long and ends up settling for a contested jumper from 20 feet out that I find to be his biggest problem on offense

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 03:38 PM
dupe

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 03:46 PM
It's funny how everyone here has nothing bad to say about him when he is help leading Team USA to Gold Medals, but when the NBA season starts, people question if he is even a star. :laugh2:

colinskik
11-07-2013, 03:46 PM
It's come to the point where we need a coach with a little more creativity on offense because Woodson seems more than content with the wait-until-there's-12-seconds-on-the-shot-clock-and-then-pass-to-Melo-on-the-elbow-who-will-hold-the-ball-for-8-seconds-and-then-force-up-a-contested-shot offensive scheme.

For something that seems so easy (i.e ball movement, player movement, allow the open guy to take the shot) it sure has been difficult to implement at times with Woody at the helm.

colinskik
11-07-2013, 03:48 PM
This, I am sure there is a stat to prove or disprove this but every time I see him catch and shoot its a splash. Its when he stares down his defender with the ball too long and ends up settling for a contested jumper from 20 feet out that I find to be his biggest problem on offense

It's true. Also when he does ISO but quickly takes one dribble with his left hand and then straight up into the shot it's usually money.

Chronz
11-07-2013, 03:48 PM
Good point. The defense goes in knowing they have to stop Melo. They know Kevin Martin is not going to create his own shot so he will be at the 3 point line or cutting off a screen. Essentially being a hyper efficient roll player. But wouldn't you agree that Melo has not done as well as he could as far as creating for others when those double teams come?
Something like that, more about the offensive opportunities the player opens up for the team as a whole. K-Mart is getting his efficient 20 but I dont know how much a player with his skillset opens the game up for his teammates, outside of spacing the floor that is, but if it leads to an efficient offense I guess I shouldn't complain. But Melo's game might lead to more offensive rebounds and/or open shots for the team as defenders scramble to double him.

If we ignored playmaking/rebounding/defense and 2 players were on a completely equal efficiency scale, the attacking offensive player is likely to be more valuable than the shooter IMO. I dont live life by rules however, so its just a theory Im looking into and I feel Melo has more relentless aggression when he attacks than the guys mentioned above, he attracts more doubles as a result and opens the game up. Not directly but via the hockey assist.

I dont know about underachieving with his passing, most swings dont have that vision. The ability to make the skip pass consistently is a trait shared by few swings in history. I read an article recently about a cameraman who has observed LeBron over the years and noticed how his eyes are always moving, reading/surveying defenses at all times. Thats why hes such a great playmaker but its also part of the reason he holds onto the ball too much sometimes, and makes for predictable/stiff movement that I think annoys the fans of scorers. Hes not instinctively looking to score the way Melo is. Both have done their part to improve on these weaknesses. Bron makes quicker reads and improved his shooting, Melo has ceased being a ball stopper many years ago but has made bigger strides in passing out of the post. His assist have dropped but Id wager hes creating as much if not more offense for his teammates with how hes developed as an overall scoring threat.

ewing
11-07-2013, 03:48 PM
This, I am sure there is a stat to prove or disprove this but every time I see him catch and shoot its a splash. Its when he stares down his defender with the ball too long and ends up settling for a contested jumper from 20 feet out that I find to be his biggest problem on offense

sometimes he has no choice. often when he gets the ball even one else stops moving and starts watching. That can make for some ugly basketball if he isn't hitting difficult shots. I think when Melo has the ball most of the times he makes a decent decision. Its before he gets it that he brings things to a grinding halt sometimes. he will run to the block and just camps their until that someone spoon feeds him the rock, that really kills motion and ball movement. There is nothing wrong with Melo going to the block but if there isn't a passing angle roll and set a cross screen along the baseline or come out and be the screen man in a screen roll. Instead of moving though, he will fight to hold position and wait for the ball to be brought to him, now he catches against a set D that knows whats coming. In general i think the weakest part of Melo game is his movement without the basketball.

ewing
11-07-2013, 03:49 PM
It's come to the point where we need a coach with a little more creativity on offense because Woodson seems more than content with the wait-until-there's-12-seconds-on-the-shot-clock-and-then-pass-to-Melo-on-the-elbow-who-will-hold-the-ball-for-8-seconds-and-then-force-up-a-contested-shot offensive scheme.

For something that seems so easy (i.e ball movement, player movement, allow the open guy to take the shot) it sure has been difficult to implement at times with Woody at the helm.

its not easy

Sactown
11-07-2013, 03:50 PM
Melo isn't a superstar his game lacks too many facets, but he is a legit all start, he can score anywhere and is a pretty good rebounder. He's a versatile defender being able to guard 3-4-5 positions, none excellently but he isn't horrible at any. He just doesn't bring enough to the table outside of his offensive ability and when he's not on he's usually hurting the team.

Chronz
11-07-2013, 03:55 PM
Melo is a better catch and shoot player then anyone that doesn't watch regularly notices. Its a shame he really doesn't seem to gravitate to this part of his game more. When able to get a look off the catch or off only one dribble Melo is a heck of a shooter. I think that is my biggest complaint about his game. He should move without the ball better, he should look for these type of opportunities more, and the team should use him coming off pin downs and other types of motion. I think part of the reason they don't is his love with the post.
I've watched Melo closely for years now, long before NY, and I honestly dont know what to make of his catch and shoot ability. I feel like its been wet for about 2 years now, but before that its been inconsistent.

I remember a stat that showed Melo was among the least efficient in the catch and shoot 1 year but that he was among the best another year and the very best in the Olympics, Ill see if I can find it. I also remember logging his off the dribble 3pt attempts the year he got traded. He was missing them in Denver then hitting them at ridiculous clip his first half stint with NY (this prolly coincided with the year he sucked at set shooting). I remember the article talking about Melo needing to improve in this area and revert to Olympic form, Im guessing Melo has.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 03:59 PM
I've watched Melo closely for years now, long before NY, and I honestly dont know what to make of his catch and shoot ability. I feel like its been wet for about 2 years now, but before that its been inconsistent.

I remember a stat that showed Melo was among the least efficient in the catch and shoot 1 year but that he was among the best another year and the very best in the Olympics, Ill see if I can find it. I also remember logging his off the dribble 3pt attempts the year he got traded. He was missing them in Denver then hitting them at ridiculous clip his first half stint with NY (this prolly coincided with the year he sucked at set shooting). I remember the article talking about Melo needing to improve in this area and revert to Olympic form, Im guessing Melo has.

Its time to change your sig now. I don't like it! haha

Chronz
11-07-2013, 04:00 PM
sometimes he has no choice. often when he gets the ball even one else stops moving and starts watching. That can make for some ugly basketball if he isn't hitting difficult shots. I think when Melo has the ball most of the times he makes a decent decision. Its before he gets it that he brings things to a grinding halt sometimes. he will run to the block and just camps their until that someone spoon feeds him the rock, that really kills motion and ball movement. There is nothing wrong with Melo going to the block but if there isn't a passing angle roll and set a cross screen along the baseline or come out and be the screen man in a screen roll. Instead of moving though, he will fight to hold position and wait for the ball to be brought to him, now he catches against a set D that knows whats coming. In general i think the weakest part of Melo game is his movement without the basketball.
Odd, I've always felt his off the ball game was very underrated but I guess I didn't think of him posting up and waiting for the ball to reach him as a form of ball stopping.

ewing
11-07-2013, 04:00 PM
I've watched Melo closely for years now, long before NY, and I honestly dont know what to make of his catch and shoot ability. I feel like its been wet for about 2 years now, but before that its been inconsistent.

I remember a stat that showed Melo was among the least efficient in the catch and shoot 1 year but that he was among the best another year and the very best in the Olympics, Ill see if I can find it. I also remember logging his off the dribble 3pt attempts the year he got traded. He was missing them in Denver then hitting them at ridiculous clip his first half stint with NY (this prolly coincided with the year he sucked at set shooting). I remember the article talking about Melo needing to improve in this area and revert to Olympic form, Im guessing Melo has.


He hasn't been great at anything so far this year but since coming to NY he has been a very good catch and shoot player

Chronz
11-07-2013, 04:04 PM
Its time to change your sig now. I don't like it! haha
Been waiting for that. I got so many gifs I want to use

Ill21
11-07-2013, 04:08 PM
It's funny how everyone here has nothing bad to say about him when he is help leading Team USA to Gold Medals, but when the NBA season starts, people question if he is even a star. :laugh2:

People don't question Melo on Team USA because he is in the perfect role there. He does not need to be the main option.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 04:12 PM
I want Melo to do well. I want the Knicks to be good. I think it would be cool to see them win. NY has passionate basketball fans and they deserve better than what they have gotten. But they are going to need to pull off something that turns this team around. I know they have cap room in two years so that may be the route they have to go. But Melo will be 31 by that time. Do Knick fans want to resign him if he opts out this year?

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 04:12 PM
People don't question Melo on Team USA because he is in the perfect role there. He does not need to be the main option.

Ok but it's not like he has a choice not to be the main option here.

Swashcuff
11-07-2013, 04:13 PM
The man finished #3 in MVP voting less than a year ago and he isn't a star? Biiatch Please!

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 04:13 PM
I want Melo to do well. I want the Knicks to be good. I think it would be cool to see them win. NY has passionate basketball fans and they deserve better than what they have gotten. But they are going to need to pull off something that turns this team around. I know they have cap room in two years so that may be the route they have to go. But Melo will be 31 by that time. Do Knick fans want to resign him if he opts out this year?

I would like to, if he was willing to take less money. But I don't see that happening. The Knicks will throw some crazy contract out there like they always do.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 04:14 PM
Been waiting for that. I got so many gifs I want to use

At least Kobe was trying instead of taking a nap back then

Ill21
11-07-2013, 04:14 PM
I want Melo to do well. I want the Knicks to be good. I think it would be cool to see them win. NY has passionate basketball fans and they deserve better than what they have gotten. But they are going to need to pull off something that turns this team around. I know they have cap room in two years so that may be the route they have to go. But Melo will be 31 by that time. Do Knick fans want to resign him if he opts out this year?

I hope they trade him this season

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 04:17 PM
I would like to, if he was willing to take less money. But I don't see that happening. The Knicks will throw some crazy contract out there like they always do.

Yeah I hear ya. With the new cap penalties you have to be careful who you give your max dollars to. But Melo said he wanted to attract other players to go to NY so hopefully he knows that the only way to do that is to take less than max money

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 04:21 PM
I hope they trade him this season

That's also a good way to start fresh. If they could get a good pick for this coming draft from someone that might be ideal. If you trade him chances are the team receiving him will have a pretty good record. So you need to find a team that is holding a pick from another team that is going to be bad. I don't know of any off the top of my head but I am sure there are out there.

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 04:21 PM
Yeah I hear ya. With the new cap penalties you have to be careful who you give your max dollars to. But Melo said he wanted to attract other players to go to NY so hopefully he knows that the only way to do that is to take less than max money

Yeah man, people always like to talk until the time comes, so we just have to wait and see.

Any word on Kobe's return?

Ill21
11-07-2013, 04:23 PM
That's also a good way to start fresh. If they could get a good pick for this coming draft from someone that might be ideal. If you trade him chances are the team receiving him will have a pretty good record. So you need to find a team that is holding a pick from another team that is going to be bad. I don't know of any off the top of my head but I am sure there are out there.

Yeah I have a feeling the way things are going now he doesn't want to come back and I know that a lot of fans don't want him back. Might as well get something for him instead of letting him walk for nothing. It's not like the Knicks are going anywhere this year.

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 04:24 PM
Yeah I have a feeling the way things are going now he doesn't want to come back and I know that a lot of fans don't want him back. Might as well get something for him instead of letting him walk for nothing. It's not like the Knicks are going anywhere this year.

Dude, we are four games into the season. Calm down.

Kobe2324
11-07-2013, 04:26 PM
Good debate, great points and im torn on it, he shows glimpses of being a superstar and the potential is there for sure, he can score in bunches, he is clutch, not saying hes a Kobe in the clutch or anything in his prime but he has hit some big buckets, he rebounds well so hes not completely useless in other aspects other than scoring, He has proven he can play D when he wants too but safe to say that's not always on display. No doubt he's the biggest "star" the knicks have had in a long *** time...I would lean towards saying he is a star but not a superstar, I dont believe their is many "superstars" in the league (Lebron, durant, cp3, Kobe, Rose) to me are superstars all assuming healthy of course with a few debatable players but Melo most certainly not on their level...with all that said New York is in trouble with this team, just dont think they have enough pieces that work well together to make it a succesfull season...

Gibby23
11-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Yeah I hear ya. With the new cap penalties you have to be careful who you give your max dollars to. But Melo said he wanted to attract other players to go to NY so hopefully he knows that the only way to do that is to take less than max money

WHat is less though? Mello's max is going to be around 24 million.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Yeah man, people always like to talk until the time comes, so we just have to wait and see.

Any word on Kobe's return?

They said he has been training hard for a little over a week. He put something on twitter that may indicate he is shooting for 11/15 vs the Grizzlies but he could just be trolling to see the media jump.

We are kind of in similar situations. I would not want the Lakers to sign Kobe for more than 10-12 million going forward for a minimal amount of years. If he cant accept that, sadly I think he should have to move on.

Ill21
11-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Dude, we are four games into the season. Calm down.

I'm just being realistic man. This team has a lot of issues and will be very difficult to fix until 2015 since we have no cap space. Why not trad Melo and get picks to build through the draft.

Edit: this is a very deep draft class

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-07-2013, 04:28 PM
WHat is less though? Mello's max is going to be around 24 million.

That is way too much if the cap is going to be around 70 million. I think 16-18 would be fair for both sides.

smood999
11-07-2013, 04:34 PM
I'm talking about his whole career... Again it's not about him being LeBron but in general, Pierce, Wade, Durant etc have had more success than this guy in one year than Melo has in his career!

you clearly don't remember Pierce's success before Garnett and Allen got there and you don't remember what life was for Wade without Shaq and before LeBron...

Guppyfighter
11-07-2013, 04:40 PM
Melo scores well on a decent efficiency. Gotta admit it is frustrating watching him play sometimes because of how he plays, but he is good at basketball.

smood999
11-07-2013, 04:43 PM
Obviously Carmelo, but I don't want my team being built around him. His role was perfect on the Olympic team as a second or sometimes a third option.

he was the leading scorer most games and the second leading scorer on the team...simple question..how good were the Knicks before him? It's unrealistic to think that Melo can do more than what he has with this Knicks team...and it's ridiculous to think that he hasn't done a good job...no one is winning a championship without other star players.

I've said this before...I hate NY fan bases even though I'm apart of it...killed Ewing, Melo gets here we actually start winning lets get rid of him now...trade Eli, fire Coughlin..then they get hot and win the Superbowl and ppl want to act like that wasn't the talk prior to them winning the Superbowl and all of a sudden Eli becomes great..

ewing
11-07-2013, 04:44 PM
Melo scores well on a decent efficiency. Gotta admit it is frustrating watching him play sometimes because of how he plays, but he is good at basketball.


.

Nycbball08
11-07-2013, 04:45 PM
Melo isn't good creating his own shot. His best season last year is because Kidd got him in the right spots to be affective!

Is there anything Melo's good at in your eyes??

BklynKnicks3
11-07-2013, 04:52 PM
Maybe try following cricket or water polo? Basketball is not for u, Ny def has the dumbest fans everything is a knee jerk reaction or panic

smood999
11-07-2013, 04:55 PM
I'm just being realistic man. This team has a lot of issues and will be very difficult to fix until 2015 since we have no cap space. Why not trad Melo and get picks to build through the draft.

Edit: this is a very deep draft class

look how impatient fans are with a team that's been winning for a couple yrs...how patient were they when the Knicks were rebuilding prior? The grass is always greener on the other side

Swashcuff
11-07-2013, 04:56 PM
Melo isn't good creating his own shot. His best season last year is because Kidd got him in the right spots to be affective!

Given the fact that Melo was assisted on 39.3% of his field goals last season (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&player_id=&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=N&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q1=Y&q2=Y&q3=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&is_tying=&is_go_ahead=&c1stat=fg&c1comp=ge&c1val=200&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg_ast_pct&order_by_asc=&offset=100) (less than Steph Curry, Mike Conley, George Hill, Deron Williams etc ALL PGs) defeats this idiotic notion. Also less than 20% of Kidd's assists (less than one a game) went to Carmelo, so again that notion is WRONG.

Melo is one of the best players in the entire NBA at creating his own shots and not relying on others to set him up. Your feelings on Melo are completely WRONG.

Swashcuff
11-07-2013, 04:59 PM
Maybe try following cricket or water polo? Basketball is not for u, Ny def has the dumbest fans everything is a knee jerk reaction or panic

I'm a HUGE cricket fan. We can converse if you wanna, just don't become an annoying homer for whatever cricketer you become a fan of.

Swashcuff
11-07-2013, 05:05 PM
I can't believe a supposed Knicks "fan" who actually watched Melo play can say that he isn't good at creating his own shots and only played well last season because Jason Kidd passed the ball to him. WTF. I mean seriously did this guy even watch Melo play a single game in his career. He honestly can't be serious right now. You'd swear he's talking about Kyle Korver or Matt Bonner. Melo is one of the BEST in the entire NBA at creating his on shot on the perimeter. IMO this thread should be deleted on a count of incompetence as a "fan" of the NBA.

sammyvine
11-07-2013, 05:21 PM
What i find scary is that Melo may be paid $130m if he resigns with the Knicks.

He is not worth that imo.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 05:23 PM
Something like that, more about the offensive opportunities the player opens up for the team as a whole. K-Mart is getting his efficient 20 but I dont know how much a player with his skillset opens the game up for his teammates, outside of spacing the floor that is, but if it leads to an efficient offense I guess I shouldn't complain. But Melo's game might lead to more offensive rebounds and/or open shots for the team as defenders scramble to double him.

If we ignored playmaking/rebounding/defense and 2 players were on a completely equal efficiency scale, the attacking offensive player is likely to be more valuable than the shooter IMO. I dont live life by rules however, so its just a theory Im looking into and I feel Melo has more relentless aggression when he attacks than the guys mentioned above, he attracts more doubles as a result and opens the game up. Not directly but via the hockey assist.

I dont know about underachieving with his passing, most swings dont have that vision. The ability to make the skip pass consistently is a trait shared by few swings in history. I read an article recently about a cameraman who has observed LeBron over the years and noticed how his eyes are always moving, reading/surveying defenses at all times. Thats why hes such a great playmaker but its also part of the reason he holds onto the ball too much sometimes, and makes for predictable/stiff movement that I think annoys the fans of scorers. Hes not instinctively looking to score the way Melo is. Both have done their part to improve on these weaknesses. Bron makes quicker reads and improved his shooting, Melo has ceased being a ball stopper many years ago but has made bigger strides in passing out of the post. His assist have dropped but Id wager hes creating as much if not more offense for his teammates with how hes developed as an overall scoring threat.

You make a valid point but my belief I think mostly double team him (good defensive teams) is because he's inability to pass to the right guy and making his teammates better. He's a decent passer but looks to shot more than pass. Plus he has a low IQ on the offensive end and his shot selection is horrible. There's a reason he's FG %, efficient rating etc is soo low. Yes he commands double at times but he lacks the IQ to take advantage of it... That's why I think he isn't a star, he isn't smart enough to be one. We can score with the best of them that's for sure but he can't create his own shot let alone take the right shot. I know this is one game but the Bulls game, Rose could of easily pull up or the jumper but he didn't because the odds of making are slim. Drive to the hoop and either make the basket or draw a foul. When it was Melos turn, he takes a pull up and the funny part is he didn't try to take it to his sweet spot which is the left elbow...

Rockice_8
11-07-2013, 05:41 PM
Melo got passed the 1st round twice, LeBron 8 times... Been to the finals 3 times once without Wade or bosh. Hell LeBron made the finals with probably the worst roster in NBA history

Not really fair to compare him to LBJ. Lebron is going down as one of the best. Melo has his flaws but he's a pretty damn good basketball player. Superstar no, never thought he was even after that great year he had last season. All star sure.

Really just hate his shot selection. If he would just get his teammates easy looks more often he'd be better for it. No reason he shouldn't be around 6 apg.

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 05:42 PM
I can't believe a supposed Knicks "fan" who actually watched Melo play can say that he isn't good at creating his own shots and only played well last season because Jason Kidd passed the ball to him. WTF. I mean seriously did this guy even watch Melo play a single game in his career. He honestly can't be serious right now. You'd swear he's talking about Kyle Korver or Matt Bonner. Melo is one of the BEST in the entire NBA at creating his on shot on the perimeter. IMO this thread should be deleted on a count of incompetence as a "fan" of the NBA.

Lol He's a Nets fan, not a Knicks fan.

And any thread that talks down on the Knicks or their players, stays open.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 05:45 PM
I can't believe a supposed Knicks "fan" who actually watched Melo play can say that he isn't good at creating his own shots and only played well last season because Jason Kidd passed the ball to him. WTF. I mean seriously did this guy even watch Melo play a single game in his career. He honestly can't be serious right now. You'd swear he's talking about Kyle Korver or Matt Bonner. Melo is one of the BEST in the entire NBA at creating his on shot on the perimeter. IMO this thread should be deleted on a count of incompetence as a "fan" of the NBA.

If that's the case plz explain why he's sooo inefficient for his entire career?

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 05:46 PM
Lol He's a Nets fan, not a Knicks fan.

And any thread that talks down on the Knicks or their players, stays open.

Now I'm a nets fan :laugh2: truth hurts

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 05:47 PM
Now I'm a nets fan :laugh2: truth hurts

Are you really a Knicks fan? I might be confusing you with another Giants username, my bad.

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 05:48 PM
Not really fair to compare him to LBJ. Lebron is going down as one of the best. Melo has his flaws but he's a pretty damn good basketball player. Superstar no, never thought he was even after that great year he had last season. All star sure.

Really just hate his shot selection. If he would just get his teammates easy looks more often he'd be better for it. No reason he shouldn't be around 6 apg.

That's why I disagree with him being a star. Like chronz says he can create for others and give others open looks since he demands double teams but he doesn't pass the ball enough. The guy average 2 assist per game

GiantsSwaGG
11-07-2013, 05:49 PM
Are you really a Knicks fan? I might be confusing you with another Giants username, my bad.

Are you the one that start "The Knicks can win it all this year" thread?

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 05:50 PM
Are you the one that start "The Knicks can win it all this year" thread?

No lmao

That was "Melo 15".

lol, please
11-07-2013, 05:51 PM
Outside of NY? Of course not. I don't think anyone outside of NY and their fan bases bring him up ever, with the exception of baiters.


I have come to the conclusion that fans from NY just like hearing their players talked about, regardless if they are good or not. That's not a compliment either.

Kashmir13579
11-07-2013, 05:51 PM
Melo is a better catch and shoot player then anyone that doesn't watch regularly notices. Its a shame he really doesn't seem to gravitate to this part of his game more. When able to get a look off the catch or off only one dribble Melo is a heck of a shooter. I think that is my biggest complaint about his game. He should move without the ball better, he should look for these type of opportunities more, and the team should use him coming off pin downs and other types of motion. I think part of the reason they don't is his love with the post.
'Melo's style of play is the exact opposite of, "letting the game come to you." I've always disliked it. Last year it was hard to argue with results. So far this season, 'Melo looks slow and particularly lackluster out there. Its a chemistry problem, but its also a 'Melo problem. As usual, when his shot isn't falling he pulls everything else down with him. I'm not convinced his shoulder isn't bothering him, as i predicted it would last year when he opted to not get the surgery. But even if thats the case, his lack of IQ never fails amaze me. Other superstars pick it up in other areas when they can't buy a bucket, 'Melo does the opposite. Gotta root for him to turn it around though because we have no draft picks and we're stuck with him. Plus, its only four games into the season.

NYKnickFanatic
11-07-2013, 05:55 PM
Outside of NY? Of course not. I don't think anyone outside of NY and their fan bases bring him up ever, with the exception of baiters.


I have come to the conclusion that fans from NY just like hearing their players talked about, regardless if they are good or not. That's not a compliment either.



Global NBA jersey sales for 2012-13 season

1 LeBron James, Heat
2 Derrick Rose, Bulls
3 Kobe Bryant, Lakers
4 Kevin Durant, Thunder
5 Dwyane Wade, Heat
6 Carmelo Anthony, Knicks

Yeah, you're right.

ewing
11-07-2013, 05:57 PM
Odd, I've always felt his off the ball game was very underrated but I guess I didn't think of him posting up and waiting for the ball to reach him as a form of ball stopping.


Since coming to NY i think i can one on my figures the times Melo has gotten a catch while slicing off the ball to the hoop. As far as the post game goes, it has definitely been a ball stopper in NY. He calls is "bully ball" Walt calls it kung foo fighting. You aren't going to get movement when someone is clogging the lane and eveyone one the floor know what is coming, how, and from what angle

Swashcuff
11-07-2013, 06:29 PM
If that's the case plz explain why he's sooo inefficient for his entire career?

Okay I'm going to end this argument right here so we can move on.

All I'd like for you to do however is after I prove you completely wrong is that you admit you were wrong about Melo and you move on. Is that okay with you? I know it isn't because you'd find something wrong with it and continue trolling. Anywho. Here it is.


Year Melo's TS% Lg Avg +/-
2003-04 0.509 0.516 -0.07
2004-05 0.526 0.530 -0.04
2005-06 0.563 0.535 +0.28
2006-07 0.552 0.541 +0.11
2007-08 0.568 0.540 +0.28
2008-09 0.532 0.545 -0.13
2009-10 0.548 0.543 +0.05
2010-11 0.557 0.542 +0.15
2011-12 0.525 0.527 -0.02
2012-13 0.560 0.535 +0.25

Melo has had an above average TS% in 6 of his 10 seasons, 3 seasons of which he was greater than league average by 2.5%+.

The idea that Melo has been inefficient his entire career couldn't be more idiotic. He was never a pillar of offensive efficiency but neither was Tracy McGrady, that didn't make his less of a "star" and he never even made it out of the first round in his day. Melo did.

I know your type though and you're a baseless hater so you clearly won't listen to a thing I say here, you'd probably ignore this post and go on saying he's been inefficient his entire career.

Swashcuff
11-07-2013, 06:31 PM
You make a valid point but my belief I think mostly double team him (good defensive teams) is because he's inability to pass to the right guy and making his teammates better. He's a decent passer but looks to shot more than pass. Plus he has a low IQ on the offensive end and his shot selection is horrible. There's a reason he's FG %, efficient rating etc is soo low. Yes he commands double at times but he lacks the IQ to take advantage of it... That's why I think he isn't a star, he isn't smart enough to be one. We can score with the best of them that's for sure but he can't create his own shot let alone take the right shot. I know this is one game but the Bulls game, Rose could of easily pull up or the jumper but he didn't because the odds of making are slim. Drive to the hoop and either make the basket or draw a foul. When it was Melos turn, he takes a pull up and the funny part is he didn't try to take it to his sweet spot which is the left elbow...

Could you please reply to post 140 of this thread.

Jamiecballer
11-07-2013, 07:26 PM
she can't be a star because i've never heard of her. which brazzers site is she from?

seriously, someone just fix the thread title please.

Blitzace137
11-07-2013, 07:44 PM
1- he can score just as good as anyone. He commands a double team.

He rebounds with the best of his position,
Nobody wins on their own in the league. Nobody does nobody ever will.give melo.

Lebron has wade and bosh
Wade had shaq
Kobe had shaq and pau, Bynum etc
Jordon had pippen rodman
Name me one superstar that did it without a true number 2. Add rondo (even though he is no star) or love any secondary option to him would make his team scary to anyone. You need to stop this. Is he as good as Lebron kd Paul? No but that's why they are the best 4 in the world

Dirk, he's the only one that comes to mind.

sunsfan88
11-07-2013, 07:47 PM
she can't be a star because i've never heard of her. which brazzers site is she from?

seriously, someone just fix the thread title please.
Not before they fix the thread title for the nest 50 pts thread.

xxplayerxx23
11-07-2013, 07:47 PM
Dirk, he's the only one that comes to mind.

Very true. What dirk did was magical.

Blitzace137
11-07-2013, 07:54 PM
Melo is a better catch and shoot player then anyone that doesn't watch regularly notices. Its a shame he really doesn't seem to gravitate to this part of his game more. When able to get a look off the catch or off only one dribble Melo is a heck of a shooter. I think that is my biggest complaint about his game. He should move without the ball better, he should look for these type of opportunities more, and the team should use him coming off pin downs and other types of motion. I think part of the reason they don't is his love with the post.

Agreed with this, this would allow Melo to be a lot more efficient. The guy would be an absolute assassin on the catch and shoots. The problem is we don't have the PG that commands Melo's respect to allow him to play like he does for team USA.

xxplayerxx23
11-07-2013, 07:55 PM
This is a joke. Melo has 4 bad games and he isn't a star it's pretty laughable. No surprise who made the thread

Blitzace137
11-07-2013, 07:56 PM
dupe

kblo247
11-07-2013, 09:13 PM
Melo got passed the 1st round twice, LeBron 8 times... Been to the finals 3 times once without Wade or bosh. Hell LeBron made the finals with probably the worst roster in NBA history

Lakers and Spurs ... Look em up, Melo ran into them out west

And look up injury at wrong time you will see Kenyon, Amare, Tyson, and Nene face as they all get hurt at the playoffs. He's only had healthy front court help in 10 where he went to the WCF and got beat by the lakers.

Even last year when Indy beat them jr needed knee surgery, he had a rotator cuff injury, Amare was hurt like always, and Tyson was hobbled.

Melos never missed a playoff run. He's never had a losing season. He turned Denver from 8 straight losing years to 7.5 straight winning ones, and NY hasn't missed a playoffs with him.

He is struggling right now but real talk of he ain't a star a guy like Kevin Love who has never helped a team win in a league where plenty of stars have took trash to the playoffs is a ****ing scrub stealing max money

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-08-2013, 03:03 AM
lol his shot selection is atrocious. he takes hand in his face jumper 90% of the time. yikes.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-08-2013, 03:08 AM
Of course he is a superstar, dumb thread. How many nonstars are able to win the scoring title?

Mike James sure can

JNA17
11-08-2013, 03:08 AM
Obviously Carmelo, but I don't want my team being built around him. His role was perfect on the Olympic team as a second or sometimes a third option.

Than Kobe and Melo in LA are going to work like a charm together then. :D

big_w
11-08-2013, 03:13 AM
Anthony is a superstar, top 10 caliber player despite the fact that he has never lived up to his potential as a great all around player. He is off to a poor shooting start this season but obviously it's only 4 games in.

PurpleJesus
11-08-2013, 03:27 AM
Every team in the league would be happy to have him, and if they had the chance, would give him max money to get him.

Yes, he is a star. He is an underachieving star though.

PurpleJesus
11-08-2013, 03:28 AM
Anthony is a superstar, top 10 caliber player despite the fact that he has never lived up to his potential as a great all around player. He is off to a poor shooting start this season but obviously it's only 4 games in.

top ten talent, not top ten player.

big_w
11-08-2013, 03:49 AM
top ten talent, not top ten player.

He led the league in scoring and led the knicks to 54 regular season wins. The knicks had a roster recruited straight from the geriatric ward. They are barely a .500 team without him last year.

KnickaBocka.44
11-08-2013, 11:57 AM
Than Kobe and Melo in LA are going to work like a charm together then. :D

Unfortunately you'll be dealing with 1/2 Kobe by that point. Melo would be your number 1.

waveycrockett
11-08-2013, 12:09 PM
Sounds like Knicks fans are mentally preparing for their superstar to leave months ahead of schedule. Cleveland fans take note!!

koreancabbage
11-08-2013, 12:30 PM
Sounds like Knicks fans are mentally preparing for their superstar to leave months ahead of schedule. Cleveland fans take note!!

you know they will just be trashing Carmelo when he leaves.

BleedGreen1014
11-09-2013, 04:17 PM
Lakers and Spurs ... Look em up, Melo ran into them out west

And look up injury at wrong time you will see Kenyon, Amare, Tyson, and Nene face as they all get hurt at the playoffs. He's only had healthy front court help in 10 where he went to the WCF and got beat by the lakers.

Even last year when Indy beat them jr needed knee surgery, he had a rotator cuff injury, Amare was hurt like always, and Tyson was hobbled.

Melos never missed a playoff run. He's never had a losing season. He turned Denver from 8 straight losing years to 7.5 straight winning ones, and NY hasn't missed a playoffs with him.

He is struggling right now but real talk of he ain't a star a guy like Kevin Love who has never helped a team win in a league where plenty of stars have took trash to the playoffs is a ****ing scrub stealing max money

This is exactly what I wanted to say. How many of those playoff series was Melo supposed to realistically win? The spurs, lakers and even the mavs ruled the west since Melo arrived in Denver. idc what anyone says, put Lebron out west during that time period and he wouldn't have much success either. Melo has never missed the playoffs and when his team is actually favored in the playoffs, he generally has some success. Melo is STAR, period. if some of you actually want to compare him to monta Ellis or Kevin Martin, then you obviously don't watch enough basketball and your just trolling trying to make a name for yourself on PSD.

JonnyBrav000
11-09-2013, 04:37 PM
I remember poster saying he is a superstar, he's better than Durant offensively etc... To be truthful I'm sick and tired if this guy and poster labeling him "Star". IMO he's neither a superstar or a star... He's just a volume scorer that can put up 40 when he's hot but scores 28 points on 48 attempt on a consistent bases. Idc if he won the scoring title last year, the east wasn't very good and against good teams like Bulls, Pacers etc he sucked. Jimmy Butler owns him. He rarely plays defense and might have the lowest IQ for a guy with his talent. Anthony Randolph and Carmelo Anthony offensive IQ's are on par. This coming from a Knicks fan I pray he leaves via free agency after this season. Like seriously what makes him any different than Monta Ellis?


Melo needs a second star to be a contender, alone he gets his team to the playoffs every year like someone else mentioned.

therealwd27
11-09-2013, 04:39 PM
you know they will just be trashing Carmelo when he leaves.

This. Lol only a matter of time. Even if he doesn't leave and stays they will have 51 million committed to just him and Amare lol

JonnyBrav000
11-09-2013, 04:40 PM
I remember poster saying he is a superstar, he's better than Durant offensively etc... To be truthful I'm sick and tired if this guy and poster labeling him "Star". IMO he's neither a superstar or a star... He's just a volume scorer that can put up 40 when he's hot but scores 28 points on 48 attempt on a consistent bases. Idc if he won the scoring title last year, the east wasn't very good and against good teams like Bulls, Pacers etc he sucked. Jimmy Butler owns him. He rarely plays defense and might have the lowest IQ for a guy with his talent. Anthony Randolph and Carmelo Anthony offensive IQ's are on par. This coming from a Knicks fan I pray he leaves via free agency after this season. Like seriously what makes him any different than Monta Ellis?


Sorry but you do not know what you are talking about. Lebron plays with Wade and Bosh, Durant plays with Westbrook, Rose has Noah, Deng and Boozer, Chris Paul has Blake Griffin and Jamal Crawford, Younger Kobe had Gasol, Ron Artest and Bynum, Melo's 2nd best player alongside him is J.R. Smith who is inconsistent and not an all star player and Chandler who does not have much of an offensive game, seriously no 2nd superstar or all-star alongside him like the other elites in the league. Pair him with someone and they take the pressure off each other and win because Amare has been finished since after his 1st season in NY.

Meaze_Gibson
11-09-2013, 04:48 PM
For a man to lead his team to the playoffs every year since his rookie year by all means that man is a top 10 player in the nba. Him and Tim Duncan are the only lead players to never miss a playoff season in the nba. For those reasons alone you cannot compare him to monta ellis or kevin martin. If Carmelo was ever a second or third fiddle like those players he would be more efficient, similarly to how he is an efficient scorer when he plays supplementary roles in the olympics or when he played with chauncey or a.i..

Sidenote..Russ coming back saved Durants *** cause his shooting numbers looked a lot like melo's. Just shows you the benefits if having a legit al star type player on your team.

Guppyfighter
11-09-2013, 05:49 PM
For a man to lead his team to the playoffs every year since his rookie year by all means that man is a top 10 player in the nba. Him and Tim Duncan are the only lead players to never miss a playoff season in the nba. For those reasons alone you cannot compare him to monta ellis or kevin martin. If Carmelo was ever a second or third fiddle like those players he would be more efficient, similarly to how he is an efficient scorer when he plays supplementary roles in the olympics or when he played with chauncey or a.i..

Sidenote..Russ coming back saved Durants *** cause his shooting numbers looked a lot like melo's. Just shows you the benefits if having a legit al star type player on your team.


Actually, no they didn't.. KD's TS number for the first two games (576) was still higher than any year Melo ever had.

Not that two games is a good enough sample size.

Meaze_Gibson
11-09-2013, 05:59 PM
Actually, no they didn't.. KD's TS number for the first two games (576) was still higher than any year Melo ever had.

Not that two games is a good enough sample size.

Was talking about the playoffs against memphis

Guppyfighter
11-09-2013, 06:20 PM
Was talking about the playoffs against memphis

lol. You mean his efficiency dropped vs's last year second best defensive team in the league. Color me shocked. I can only think of one way this could have happened.

Anyways, again, 5 game sample, doesn't mean anything. In fact, for the playoffs his TS was 648, and he played eleven of those games without Westbrook.

Snapshot
11-09-2013, 07:57 PM
so whats the difference between Melo and say, Kevin Martin or Monta Ellis?

I don't think I saw a single legit response to this.

Diff is if Monta or K Mart is ur best player ur headed for the lottery, if Melo is u are assured a playoff spot...is that a good enough diff for u?

Fun fact...of the 9 times Melo was eliminated in the PO's 6 out the 9 was to the eventual NBA champion.

MELO 15
11-09-2013, 09:03 PM
This is a joke. Melo has 4 bad games and he isn't a star it's pretty laughable. No surprise who made the thread
Bingo!.

AddiX
11-09-2013, 09:09 PM
Diff is if Monta or K Mart is ur best player ur headed for the lottery, if Melo is u are assured a playoff spot...is that a good enough diff for u?

Fun fact...of the 9 times Melo was eliminated in the PO's 6 out the 9 was to the eventual NBA champion.

The whole not winning a championship, or going far in playoffs argument is such a joke.

There's a handful of teams that have won rings in the past 15 years, and a whole lot of good players that havnt won rings or consistently been far in the playoffs.

Guppyfighter
11-09-2013, 09:43 PM
Weird, a high seeded team that has already won a playoff series is likely to win a title.

bucketss
11-09-2013, 09:59 PM
sf version of andrea bargnani.

cssdmark
11-09-2013, 10:14 PM
He has to be. Before Melo the Knick franchise was not the most valuable and once Melo came to NYC the Knicks franchise was the most valued even worth more than the Lakers. Only a star can do that.

NYKnickFanatic
11-09-2013, 11:09 PM
sf version of andrea bargnani.

Cut it out.

flea
11-09-2013, 11:17 PM
I honestly don't think you can be a star when you only really contribute in one facet of the game, no matter how good you are at it. Carmelo is certainly a bankable star, but until they create a position he can defend or he turns into a playmaker I won't believe he's an on-court star.

ewing
11-09-2013, 11:44 PM
Do you guys watch basketball?

Meaze_Gibson
11-10-2013, 12:20 AM
lol. You mean his efficiency dropped vs's last year second best defensive team in the league. Color me shocked. I can only think of one way this could have happened.

Anyways, again, 5 game sample, doesn't mean anything. In fact, for the playoffs his TS was 648, and he played eleven of those games without Westbrook.

And thats what i dont get. Durant gets a pass while Melo doesnt. Every team Melo has faced in the playoffs since being in the east had an elite defense while his own team battles major injuries. However, instead of people being "colored shocked" when he isnt as efficient as hoped,they continue to bash him. also, Melo never had a second option near a westbrook level except with ai and billups. Ironically those were some of his most efficient/productive seasons. . Dont get me wrong Durant is better. But the struggle he gave against Memphis is what Melo has seen the majority of his prime but he gets no slack.

Kashmir13579
11-10-2013, 12:24 AM
Do you guys watch basketball?

:laugh2:

Guppyfighter
11-10-2013, 05:21 AM
And thats what i dont get. Durant gets a pass while Melo doesnt. Every team Melo has faced in the playoffs since being in the east had an elite defense while his own team battles major injuries. However, instead of people being "colored shocked" when he isnt as efficient as hoped,they continue to bash him. also, Melo never had a second option near a westbrook level except with ai and billups. Ironically those were some of his most efficient/productive seasons. . Dont get me wrong Durant is better. But the struggle he gave against Memphis is what Melo has seen the majority of his prime but he gets no slack.


Melo is a great player, but you have to not know what basketball is to even compare the two. Durant is on another level compared to melo. You are asking for criticisms if you do that.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-10-2013, 05:25 AM
Of course he is. He has made the all star team numerous times and has played to a degree where he meets the criteria of what a star is.

Dmagic87
11-10-2013, 01:06 PM
Swashcuff and Chronz had the best posts regarding the subject and none of the Melo haters replied. The nba forum is a complete joke.

Kashmir13579
11-10-2013, 01:21 PM
Swashcuff and Chronz had the best posts regarding the subject and none of the Melo haters replied. The nba forum is a complete joke.

Basically.

Hawkeye15
11-10-2013, 02:15 PM
he is absolutely a star. He isn't a player whom I would fee comfortable having as my #1 if I want to win a chip, but he is a perennial all star, and will be a HoF'er. Top 15 player for the course of his career.

Turn Up
11-10-2013, 02:22 PM
carmelo is a star, he may be inefficient, he may not make his teammates any better, but hes a guy who can get you 20, 5, and 2.

hes rated unfairly because of his contract size, and because of the team he plays for

carmelo is a star, he is a legit second option on a championship team imo, but he will never do anything of note as a first option

Dmagic87
11-10-2013, 03:15 PM
he is absolutely a star. He isn't a player whom I would fee comfortable having as my #1 if I want to win a chip, but he is a perennial all star, and will be a HoF'er. Top 15 player for the course of his career.

What I would like to know is this: If you replaced Melo with any other star (outside of Lebron) would any of his knick teams be that much better? I could see us going a round higher with a Durant or CP3 but that is about it. So many say they wouldn't be comfortable with him as their number 1 but IMO he has never had a contending supporting cast. Denver teams had some decent players but nothing to likes of what Durant or CP3 have now.

I always thought he was in the 9-12 range. However, the guy has never had a great team. I would love to see how efficient he would be on the Thunder or something replacing a superior Durant. Everyone says he is a chucker, but honestly when I watch him play I don't see hesitation to pass and create for others. What I see is lack of trust in inferior players. I see players just stand and watch him isolate. I see so many missed wide open shots he created. He isn't stupid, he knows 20 pts and 8 assists looks better than 28 and 2.

Dmagic87
11-10-2013, 03:20 PM
carmelo is a star, he may be inefficient, he may not make his teammates any better, but hes a guy who can get you 20, 5, and 2.

hes rated unfairly because of his contract size, and because of the team he plays for

carmelo is a star, he is a legit second option on a championship team imo, but he will never do anything of note as a first option

I wonder going forward if Lebron would rather have Wade or Melo at a max? I really think the Lebron and Melo combo would work better. Sure Wade is still great and plays on both ends but the easy shots Lebron would create for Melo... man that would be something to watch.

Turn Up
11-10-2013, 03:21 PM
What I would like to know is this: If you replaced Melo with any other star (outside of Lebron) would any of his knick teams be that much better? I could see us going a round higher with a Durant or CP3 but that is about it. So many say they wouldn't be comfortable with him as their number 1 but IMO he has never had a contending supporting cast. Denver teams had some decent players but nothing to likes of what Durant or CP3 have now.

I always thought he was 9-12 range. However, the guy has never had a great team. I would love to see how efficient he is on the Thunder or something instead of Durant. Everyone says he is a chucker, but honestly when I watch him play I don't see hesitation to pass and create for others. What I see is lack of trust in inferior players. I see players just stand and watch him isolate. I see so many missed wide open shots he created. He isn't stupid, he knows 20 pts and 8 assists looks better than 28 and 2.

the knicks dont really have enough talent, so no matter who you swap out for melo, you wouldnt get any more than a marginal increase. the only player who i could see even giving them that marginal increase is a cp3, because he can create for himself, as well as score when needed

but even if melo did have more talent around him, i doubt he would take them anywhere. he is a guy that cant be the best player on his team for his team to be successful

flea
11-10-2013, 03:25 PM
I wonder going forward if Lebron would rather have Wade or Melo at a max? I really think the Lebron and Melo combo would work better. Sure Wade is still great and plays on both ends but the easy shots Lebron would create for Melo... man that would be something to watch.

Obviously Wade is the better choice, even an aged Wade. Lebron and Melo play the same position and need to occupy a lot of the same real estate on the court. Not to mention you'd have a gaping defensive hole at whichever spot you put Melo. Wade can defend a team's best guard, rebound better, run an offense, and finish in transition just as well as Melo. What can Melo do? Score in ISO situations and that's about it.

Crackadalic
11-10-2013, 03:30 PM
Not even going to argue. Yes he's a star. Yes he's a volume scorer but he creates that double team that a lot of volume scorers don't have. Very good rebounder for his position and though he doesn't get the assist he gets a lot of those hockey assist

My only issue is his lack of defense at times and lack of leadership.

In terms of playoff performances and lack of a true 2nd star is another story that I won't get into

flea
11-10-2013, 03:37 PM
Not even going to argue. Yes he's a star. Yes he's a volume scorer but he creates that double team that a lot of volume scorers don't have. Very good rebounder for his position and though he doesn't get the assist he gets a lot of those hockey assist

My only issue is his lack of defense at times and lack of leadership.

In terms of playoff performances and lack of a true 2nd star is another story that I won't get into

He's a poor rebounder, and saying he's good at "hockey assists" sounds a lot like homerism.

Dmagic87
11-10-2013, 03:45 PM
Obviously Wade is the better choice, even an aged Wade. Lebron and Melo play the same position and need to occupy a lot of the same real estate on the court. Not to mention you'd have a gaping defensive hole at whichever spot you put Melo. Wade can defend a team's best guard, rebound better, run an offense, and finish in transition just as well as Melo. What can Melo do? Score in ISO situations and that's about it.

Totally disagree. They won't play the same position because Lebron could be the 1-4 and be the player in the league at each position. Melo could play the 3 or 4 and be a top player at either position. Wade is no where near the floor stretcher or offensive presence Melo is. The defense isn't great but it isn't going to kill you either especially if you have a Lebron on the team.

As for what can Melo. He proved last year what he could do if he had a legit creator that set him up correctly. He proved that he can be insanely efficient and deadly without the ball putting up 30 and being in mvp talk. That is with a half dead Jason Kidd... what would it be with a Lebron or Cp3 or Westbrook? The guy can catch and shoot with the best of them. He is unstoppable when he decides to get to the line and his slashing ability is underrated. Not to mention I think he would be a much better passer if he actually had good surrounding talent

flea
11-10-2013, 03:48 PM
Lebron can't play the 1 or 2 for extended minutes. Maybe 5 years ago but certainly not now. Can you see a 250 pound PF coming off screens chasing Tony Parker? Yeah me neither, this isn't NBA 2k. You're also acting like Melo is good off the ball, when that's really his biggest weakness offensively. He's not a good slasher, but I'll agree he's got he size and hands to be good at it. He doesn't really spot up either, since his J is more streaky than anything.

Crackadalic
11-10-2013, 04:06 PM
He's a poor rebounder, and saying he's good at "hockey assists" sounds a lot like homerism.

I'm a huge knock fan but I don't drink the kool aid and I call what i see. Melo when he is double team pass out to the guy to the next guy who makes the shot.

Outside of last year I have never seen so many guys miss shots even when getting a pas from him which is why he chucks so much

And being a poor rebounder is laughable as he is a career 6.3 rebounder and has a good rebounding % for his position

He still takes some bad shots, lack defense and lack leadership though so I won't disagree with that

flea
11-10-2013, 04:08 PM
10% TRB is not good for a guy that spends the majority of time at PF. If he played exclusively as a SF it would be a solid, but unspectacular, rate.

jimm120
11-10-2013, 04:16 PM
Remember...he IS a SF. he's only playing PF because the team is putting him there and going "small ball". But he rebounds as a SF...an elite rebounding SF (7-8 rebounds).

Crackadalic
11-10-2013, 04:18 PM
10% TRB is not good for a guy that spends the majority of time at PF. If he played exclusively as a SF it would be a solid, but unspectacular, rate.

He just started to play pf last season. Where in any season did he play pf exclusively?

Turn Up
11-10-2013, 04:23 PM
Remember...he IS a SF. he's only playing PF because the team is putting him there and going "small ball". But he rebounds as a SF...an elite rebounding SF (7-8 rebounds).

this

i dont know why people even think of him as a 4. he may play it, but its not his natural positon

flea
11-10-2013, 04:27 PM
He did small lineups in Denver some as well, just not as his primary unit like he does now. Plus he was more athletic and played in a fast-paced offense (with more transition opportunities). He may have been a respectable rebounder for a SF earlier in his career, but that's a far cry from being a "very good rebounder."

flea
11-10-2013, 04:29 PM
this

i dont know why people even think of him as a 4. he may play it, but its not his natural positon

He has no natural position, he's a tweener. Too slow-footed to defend perimeter players but not big or skilled enough to be a good post defender. Tweeners always have a hard time in the NBA, but considering he plays PF most of the time these days you should expect him to do things that PFs do - or else he's hurting your team.

ManRam
11-10-2013, 04:30 PM
Dumb thread. Of course he is. He has his flaws, but that doesn't negate the fact. Stars can be flawed players to an extent.

The problems with the Knicks don't have anything to do with him. And the fact that they overachieved so much last year with Felton and JR as second options is just amazing. Not sure how much of that goes to Melo, but if they crash back down to Earth I'm not sure he should shoulder the blame.

Chronz
11-10-2013, 07:46 PM
You make a valid point but my belief I think mostly double team him (good defensive teams) is because he's inability to pass to the right guy and making his teammates better. He's a decent passer but looks to shot more than pass. Plus he has a low IQ on the offensive end and his shot selection is horrible.
Thats what keeps him from being in the upper echelon of stars but hes developed his game nicely over the years. Attracting doubles is still a valuable trait and I think you dismiss his scoring ability as a factor for teams doubling him too easily.



There's a reason he's FG %, efficient rating etc is soo low. Yes he commands double at times but he lacks the IQ to take advantage of it... That's why I think he isn't a star, he isn't smart enough to be one. We can score with the best of them that's for sure but he can't create his own shot let alone take the right shot. I know this is one game but the Bulls game, Rose could of easily pull up or the jumper but he didn't because the odds of making are slim. Drive to the hoop and either make the basket or draw a foul. When it was Melos turn, he takes a pull up and the funny part is he didn't try to take it to his sweet spot which is the left elbow...

I know that his catch and shoot efficiency has improved over the years, his off the dribble game was something I thought was among the most prolific. Whether thats a good or bad thing isn't something I want to get into right now but Melo definitely takes and makes alot of off the dribble shots, if thats what you mean by create your own.


Melo this year is pulling up for about 10 jumpers off the bounce a game, thats 6th most thus far. Hes shooting a respectable 44% on those shots, the problem is that its hard to justify that shot selection without absurd efficiency in other areas but hes definitely proven capable of creating his own. I think thats partly why he gets doubled, teams fear his ability to create 1 on 1.

flea
11-10-2013, 07:48 PM
The flip side to frequency of double teaming is that teams do not fear his passing ability.

Turn Up
11-10-2013, 07:52 PM
He has no natural position, he's a tweener. Too slow-footed to defend perimeter players but not big or skilled enough to be a good post defender. Tweeners always have a hard time in the NBA, but considering he plays PF most of the time these days you should expect him to do things that PFs do - or else he's hurting your team.

slow footed? have you seen lol deng play? they basically are the same, with melo being a little more athletic

i dont think slow feet has anything to do with his lack of perimeter D

flea
11-10-2013, 07:56 PM
slow footed? have you seen lol deng play? they basically are the same, with melo being a little more athletic

i dont think slow feet has anything to do with his lack of perimeter D

No it's also effort and defensive IQ, both of which Deng brings.

Turn Up
11-10-2013, 07:58 PM
No it's also effort and defensive IQ, both of which Deng brings.

hit the nail right on the head with this one

Chronz
11-10-2013, 07:58 PM
The flip side to frequency of double teaming is that teams do not fear his passing ability.

Hes a limited passer in that hes not equally adept at passing from all angles the way natural playmakers are, but if you utilize him in the right ways and surround him with better passers (like Kidd-Prig-Felton) who can make the swing pass, off his post/elbow play then hes pretty good. I havent seen too much of that from him or the Knicks this year, without that 3pt attack, Melo has been having to do more direct playmaking and much like Kobe, his overall offensive game suffers in that kind of role.

LA_Raiders
11-10-2013, 08:13 PM
The dude is good, I believe the sorry *** coach and some if the players around him are making him bad somehow. He was great at Denver.

Swashcuff
11-10-2013, 08:36 PM
He has no natural position, he's a tweener. Too slow-footed to defend perimeter players but not big or skilled enough to be a good post defender. Tweeners always have a hard time in the NBA, but considering he plays PF most of the time these days you should expect him to do things that PFs do - or else he's hurting your team.

The post of a man who has no idea what he's talking about. Too slow footed? Carmelo Anthony? Are you crazy, he's lazy, demotivated and lacks the fire to succeed even but slow footed are you crazy.

Carmelo Anthony is a tweener? Haha. You clear have no clue what you're talking about. Its IDIOTIC absolutely IDIOTIC to think that if Melo isn't being a prototypical PF he's hurting his team, its that type of idiotic notion that have people believing the Thunder would be better without Russell Westbrook because he doesn't do the things than a PG is supposed to do.

flea
11-10-2013, 08:46 PM
The post of a man who has no idea what he's talking about. Too slow footed? Carmelo Anthony? Are you crazy, he's lazy, demotivated and lacks the fire to succeed even but slow footed are you crazy.

Carmelo Anthony is a tweener? Haha. You clear have no clue what you're talking about. Its IDIOTIC absolutely IDIOTIC to think that if Melo isn't being a prototypical PF he's hurting his team, its that type of idiotic notion that have people believing the Thunder would be better without Russell Westbrook because he doesn't do the things than a PG is supposed to do.

I think in your strange outburst of anger you misunderstood me. First of all, playing Melo at the 4 is probably the best way to utilize his skillset, especially at his age. He's good in the post and can use his quickness to beat bigger guys. He's got basically the perfect center (when healthy) next to him. If this were 4 or 5 years ago, I'd be really excited about the Artest/Chandler/Melo frontcourt.

As far as slow-footed, yeah he is. He's got quickness but either due to effort or conditioning he's not the fastest guy defending on the perimeter. Why else do you think the Knicks put a sub-par rebounder and poor defender in the middle of their defense?

Swashcuff
11-10-2013, 08:54 PM
I think in your strange outburst of anger you misunderstood me. First of all, playing Melo at the 4 is probably the best way to utilize his skillset, especially at his age. He's good in the post and can use his quickness to beat bigger guys. He's got basically the perfect center (when healthy) next to him. If this were 4 or 5 years ago, I'd be really excited about the Artest/Chandler/Melo frontcourt.

As far as slow-footed, yeah he is. He's got quickness but either due to effort or conditioning he's not the fastest guy defending on the perimeter. Why else do you think the Knicks put a sub-par rebounder and poor defender in the middle of their defense?

Not being the fastest guy on the perimeter doesn't make him "slow footed", he may not be as quick as other players but for a 6'8 240+ F he has some of the fastest feet in the league.

Its not who the Knicks put in the middle of their D its what they have on their team. Do you think Amar'e and K Mart should be starting at the 4 instead of Melo? You act as if the Knicks have a plethora of options at their disposal.

bagwell368
11-10-2013, 09:01 PM
Of course he is a star. That's a subjective judgement, and NYK fans are so hungry for a winner or at least a star, they are happy to make him one.

The more important point is that outside of volume shooting/scoring there is nothing he does that's above average (don't count USG% as an advantage sorry), so how he gets to rank as a top 10 or 5 player in some peoples mind for taking too many shots I have no idea.. It certainly flies in the face of the facts, and gives us an answer to the question: Are fans fanatics? Must be when they claim he's top 10.

Note: his rebounding as a SF is pretty decent, but not as a PF.

flea
11-10-2013, 09:17 PM
Not being the fastest guy on the perimeter doesn't make him "slow footed", he may not be as quick as other players but for a 6'8 240+ F he has some of the fastest feet in the league.

Its not who the Knicks put in the middle of their D its what they have on their team. Do you think Amar'e and K Mart should be starting at the 4 instead of Melo? You act as if the Knicks have a plethora of options at their disposal.

If you re-read what I wrote I already stated that I think playing him at the 4 is the best option. Least amount of defensive damage and can create mismatches.

bagwell368
11-10-2013, 09:18 PM
Not being the fastest guy on the perimeter doesn't make him "slow footed", he may not be as quick as other players but for a 6'8 240+ F he has some of the fastest feet in the league.

Its not who the Knicks put in the middle of their D its what they have on their team. Do you think Amar'e and K Mart should be starting at the 4 instead of Melo? You act as if the Knicks have a plethora of options at their disposal.

Melo has considerably faster feet when he's creating his own offense than when playing defense or a teammate has the ball and isn't looking at him to pass the ball - that's what I see.

Kashmir13579
11-11-2013, 03:20 AM
Melo has considerably faster feet when he's creating his own offense than when playing defense or a teammate has the ball and isn't looking at him to pass the ball - that's what I see.

Yes.