PDA

View Full Version : Why Did The Nuggets Blow The Team Up?



Clippersfan86
11-06-2013, 02:34 PM
Nobody's really mentioned anything lately that I saw, figured it could make for an interesting discussion. They fire the GM and coach of the year, lose Iggy. Sign a a few odd or repetitive fits like Foye, Hickson, Robinson. Then they hire a rookie HC with no experience who's seemingly trying to implement a system that doesn't fit. I'm not thinking about this because of the 0-3 start itself because it's early, but more because of how they LOOK.

I knew the drop off would be steep but didn't think they could potentially be bottom 3-4 in the conference. Did you expect this? Do you think Denver made a mistake? Do you think they can turn it around and at least fight for a low playoff seed?

AddiX
11-06-2013, 02:37 PM
Up until this past off session ive loved everything Denver has done.

This past off season was a bnch if mind blowing moves, that told me they lost there way. I don't know what Denver is doing anymore.

Tmath
11-06-2013, 02:49 PM
They didn't fire the GM, the Raptors made an offer he simply couldn't refuse.

Swashcuff
11-06-2013, 02:51 PM
Iggy was out of their control. He went to GS to play for less money than he was offered in Denver, wouldn't consider that part as them "blowing it up". We also have to remember their two best wing players in Gallo and Wilson Chandler are yet to get on the floor this season. Lawson is usually a slow starter he should come around but the whole Manimal situation is confusing to me.

waveycrockett
11-06-2013, 02:59 PM
The guy who was the brains behind the entire organization packed his bags for TOR. You can see the owner has no idea what he is doing because he fired the COY and got rid of players who fit that system perfectly and hired a coach who specializes in coach half court basketball. Shaw might be a good coach but I highly doubt he reaches the level of success Karl had.

*Superman*
11-06-2013, 03:08 PM
#TankForWiggins

Chronz
11-06-2013, 03:09 PM
It all started years ago when Deal Oliver left them for ESPN

waveycrockett
11-06-2013, 03:12 PM
They should blow it up. Trade Faried and Lawson for young studs and picks

Clippersfan86
11-06-2013, 03:15 PM
Iggy was out of their control. He went to GS to play for less money than he was offered in Denver, wouldn't consider that part as them "blowing it up". We also have to remember their two best wing players in Gallo and Wilson Chandler are yet to get on the floor this season. Lawson is usually a slow starter he should come around but the whole Manimal situation is confusing to me.

It's crazy... there are rumors that GS courted Iggy DURING the playoff series. Also had the GM/Coach stayed and Iggy had a clear picture of the future, instead of inconsistency I doubt he bails. It is a fair point that Gallo/Chandler haven't played yet, although I think both take a step back this year anyways. Even when they get back I'm not sure if they are a playoff team. Which is still a drop off from 57 wins.

I almost wonder why they wanted so badly to change everything. I'd rather be a niche team for 5-6 years that will win 55 games perennial and be out in the 2nd round than start over and risk everything.

waveycrockett
11-06-2013, 03:17 PM
I do think Iggy is a bit overrated. Hamilton and Chandler would have no problem replacing him if Karl was still the coach. Instead they got Shaw who is likely in over his head.

PhillyFaninLA
11-06-2013, 03:17 PM
Melo wanted to leave...

nycericanguy
11-06-2013, 03:20 PM
I don't like the direction they went in, trading Koufas who was really their best C and on a good contract and young for basically nothing?

Only to turn around and give Mozzy $5m per? A guy who has never played more than 44 games in a season and has always been a 3rd string C?

Then signing Foye AND Nate...? Nate had a nice year last year under Thibs but he couldn't even find a team before CHI picked him up. Foye sucks... and then giving the full MLE to Hickson? Another journey man who has never really had a positive impact on a team.

And they should have traded Chandler years ago, he can't even string together 10 games w/o hurting himself, he's not someone you can count on.

That Melo "fleecing" isn't looking so great these days. They are now paying Gallo/CHandler/Mozzy about $24m per and all those guys have trouble evne staying on the court.

Rivera
11-06-2013, 03:23 PM
I have been a Brian Shaw fan heading into the season. Thought he should have had a chance to coach the Lakers when Phil left. But with what Shaw has done to Farieed makes me question his ability as a coach. Farieed is a beast

As pointed out iggy and majari was out of their hands. Lets see what happens when Gallo n Wilson Chandler come back

SugeKnight
11-06-2013, 03:23 PM
They should blow it up. Trade Faried and Lawson for young studs and picks

Lawson and Faried are young studs (especially Lawson). Iggy was out of their control like swash said, and firing Karl was the right move. Hiring Shaw was a weird move, same with getting Foye, Robinson, and Hickson.

They wont be a bottom 10 team, but they might need to blow it up all the way. IDK if you can build a championship team around Lawson and Gallo. Seems like they're going to be stuck around the middle unless they get lucky in the draft

jstone0716
11-06-2013, 03:23 PM
They should blow it up. Trade Faried and Lawson for young studs and picks

Lol... Lawson is 26 and Faried is 23.

Denver has lots of young talent ( Gal, Chandler, Lawson, Faried, Hickson, McGee, Robinson.. etc. ) but they really need that one guy that glues them all together ( previously Iggy ). I don't think they're blowing the team up... honestly no one took them seriously last year even after the 57 wins. They just need to make one move to put them into contention. Maybe Faried & Picks for Pau Gasol.. considering it's looking more and more like the Lakers are tanking.

futureman
11-06-2013, 03:26 PM
Denver never had a superstar in that group. All of the winning they did last season was for nothing because they got eliminated by a lower seed who has a superstar.

Guppyfighter
11-06-2013, 03:27 PM
They wanted to keep Iggy. Iggy didn't want to stay. Gallo tore his ACL. Other than that, they have the same core.

daboywonder2002
11-06-2013, 04:07 PM
shaw needs to adjust. you dont have a bynum/gasol/shaq/roy hibbert. this is javale mcgee. play to his strengths. athleticism, shot blocking. bad move trading koufus. i liked the combo of him, faried and gallo. karl was right. mcgee and faried dont mix. when your a team that wins 57 games, i dont believe in tearing down everything. you add to what's already in place. it's like he's sacrificing wins for putting his system in place. shaw needs to fix the halfcourt offense. but that doesnt mean forcefeed the bigs either.

Swashcuff
11-06-2013, 05:09 PM
I do think Iggy is a bit overrated. Hamilton and Chandler would have no problem replacing him if Karl was still the coach. Instead they got Shaw who is likely in over his head.

Don't see how Chandler and Hamilton replaces his D, play making and leadership if Karl was still there. He was hands down their best defensive player last season he really held them together when they received inconsistent play from guys like McGee and Faried who were supposed to be their other solid defensive players.

phoenix_bladen
11-06-2013, 05:24 PM
at the time of the melo trade, it seemed the nuggets raped the knicks in that deal because the nuggets were banking on the potential of gallo, chandler and the rest of the young talent.

But it doesn't seem like any of them panned out or reached their max potential.

The nuggets essentially really got gallo out of that deal and maybe a low pick or two.....

not exactly raping...

nycericanguy
11-06-2013, 05:38 PM
at the time of the melo trade, it seemed the nuggets raped the knicks in that deal because the nuggets were banking on the potential of gallo, chandler and the rest of the young talent.

But it doesn't seem like any of them panned out or reached their max potential.

The nuggets essentially really got gallo out of that deal and maybe a low pick or two.....

not exactly raping...

Yea but people to this day talk about Masaii "owning" NY... but what exactly did DEN get that was so great for Melo? I mean I love Gallo, but he's injury prone and never really took the next step as you say.

I guess ppl just take any chance to trash NY... they are LOVING that Chandler injury in that thread.

lol, please
11-06-2013, 06:31 PM
Nobody's really mentioned anything lately that I saw, figured it could make for an interesting discussion. They fire the GM and coach of the year, lose Iggy. Sign a a few odd or repetitive fits like Foye, Hickson, Robinson. Then they hire a rookie HC with no experience who's seemingly trying to implement a system that doesn't fit. I'm not thinking about this because of the 0-3 start itself because it's early, but more because of how they LOOK.

I knew the drop off would be steep but didn't think they could potentially be bottom 3-4 in the conference. Did you expect this? Do you think Denver made a mistake? Do you think they can turn it around and at least fight for a low playoff seed?

Don't understand it. They were contenders last year, why not build upon it?

lol, please
11-06-2013, 06:35 PM
I almost wonder why they wanted so badly to change everything. I'd rather be a niche team for 5-6 years that will win 55 games perennial and be out in the 2nd round than start over and risk everything.

Agreed. A thousand times this.

IgglesFanInCO
11-06-2013, 07:11 PM
some random tidbits from a nuggets fan perspective:

we are all super pissed at how they have played so far its infuriating

the main issue is Javale McGee playing worse than ever, so much for him "developing"

the secondary issue is that Masai Ujiri was a phenomenal GM who kept us relevant without a star or decent coach is gone, nuggets FO didnt match raptors offer and will regret it for years

George Karl was bad, everyone needs to understand this. theres a reason he couldnt get any type of job outside of TV when he really wanted to

nuggets started 0-3 last season too

our 2nd and 3rd best players are out right now

have several players playing out of style

dont really miss iggy that much, if we had gallo and wilson probably wouldnt miss him at all

everyone misses Aaron Afflalo though :(

IgglesFanInCO
11-06-2013, 07:14 PM
Don't understand it. They were contenders last year, why not build upon it?

they had no choice

Karl was a terrible coach, so that Firing only helped

Iggy was offered more money to stay in Denver and still left (after keeping them on the line for 2 weeks to miss out on all the big FAs)

Ujiri wasnt fired he left, although Kroenke could have pushed harder to keep him (thats the main thing)

everything else is just health related

Koufos move was just bad though

daboywonder2002
11-06-2013, 08:10 PM
how can you say karl was a terrible coach when he is one of the winningest coaches in history. listen i know karl can wear out his welcome like he did with the bucks. but you cant deny his success. wins may not be as important as rings but they should count for something. cause i know for sure if pop or phil jackson didnt start mcgee or played andre miller too many minutes. nobody would say a thing. but karl does it and it's oh he's terrible. his rotations suck. gk said mcgee and faried cant play together. so far he is correct on that.

Guppyfighter
11-06-2013, 08:14 PM
how can you say karl was a terrible coach when he is one of the winningest coaches in history. listen i know karl can wear out his welcome like he did with the bucks. but you cant deny his success. wins may not be as important as rings but they should count for something. cause i know for sure if pop or phil jackson didnt start mcgee or played andre miller too many minutes. nobody would say a thing. but karl does it and it's oh he's terrible. his rotations suck. gk said mcgee and faried cant play together. so far he is correct on that.


lol Jesus. It's like when people evaluate basketball coaches you have to actually evaluate their schemes. You can't just say "HEY LOOK RECORD LOL" To prove he is a good coach. He's not making the teams good, he's actually making them worse. He's a detriment. The front offices he has worked for just put good teams in front of him.

Nuggets are taking a step back this year because they lost their two best perimeter defenders and their best player is out for an extended period of time.

TheMightyHumph
11-06-2013, 08:17 PM
[QUOTE=IgglesFanInCO;27357048]they had no choice

Karl was a terrible coach, so that Firing only helped

Iggy was offered more money to stay in Denver and still left (after keeping them on the line for 2 weeks to miss out on all the big FAs)

Ujiri wasnt fired he left, although Kroenke could have pushed harder to keep him (thats the main thing)

everything else is just health related

Koufos move was just bad though{/QUOTE}

Agree. That Mile-High homecourt advantage worked in the regular season, but come playoff time, strategies. matchups and drawing up plays takes over. Never been Karl's strength.

It's understandable why Denver had their best playoff run with Billups at PG.

CB is a shooting PG that can actually run an offense.

Nuggets should get better when/if Chandler and Danilo get better. But Javale McGee is not an intelligent player and doesn't fit into a structured offense.

Just my opinion.

JEDean89
11-06-2013, 08:36 PM
As a nuggs fan I am glad this team chose not to go the mediocre route and are instead tanking for a top pick. Add Dante Exum to this team and we are a contender in 2 years, add no pieces and grow from within and we are a 1st/2nd round elimated team every year. GK was a coach who could beat a lot of teams in the regular season but transition buckets and depth don't win in the playoffs. Nuggs need a star and they can't get one in FA so we are going for one in the deepest draft in a long time. I mean, their are a ton of guys that if you add to this team we are great. If the Nuggs hold Gallo out, you know they will be tanking.

Also, The team signed a lot of guys to short term contracts. Foye really only got 2 years as the 3rd is a team option, Arthur has a playing option. I mean the team will have cap space. I'm still unsold on McGee, but right now he is our guy, he needs to step it up. The Nuggs are in a tough spot, Iggy leaving set us back 2-3 years at least but I'm glad we're not trying to win the regular season and are trying to win chips now.

BirdIsTheWord
11-06-2013, 10:16 PM
I almost wonder why they wanted so badly to change everything. I'd rather be a niche team for 5-6 years that will win 55 games perennial and be out in the 2nd round than start over and risk everything.

It gets old fast.

JasonJohnHorn
11-06-2013, 10:36 PM
I hate to repeat what everybody else has already said, but... they didn't blow things up.

The GM and Iggy both left of their own free will.
Karl needed to go. He was a good coach, but he had simply failed to take the team to a deep playoff run and should have beaten GSW last year (their lone All-Star was injured for the series).

They guys they picked up were meant to replace guys they had lost: Foye and Robinson replaced Iggy (though Iggy is the best player of the three) and Hickson played very well for Portland last year, and he adds some depth to the front court. That was a good pick up.

A lot hinges on chemistry and coaching. This is Shaw's first gig as coach. We'll see how it turns out. I am hopeful because I like the guy, but this is a hard transition.

They are off to a slow start, but it is a long season. They have a lot of trade pieces as well, so they could be major players throughout the season.

Manimal
11-07-2013, 10:47 AM
'Building around McGee' in other words, The Tank is on.

waveycrockett
11-08-2013, 11:14 AM
Don't see how Chandler and Hamilton replaces his D, play making and leadership if Karl was still there. He was hands down their best defensive player last season he really held them together when they received inconsistent play from guys like McGee and Faried who were supposed to be their other solid defensive players.
Iggy at this stage of his career is overrated though. Offensively Chandler/Hamilton can easily replace the 13-14 ppg Iggy brought with better shooting minus the ball handling. Hamilton showed alot of promise last yr. Karls system can hide alot of weaknesses. Iggy's reputation precedes him I'll leave it at that as the Warriors guards showed last year.

KnicksorBust
11-08-2013, 11:25 AM
It only feels like tanking bc Chandler and Gallo are injured. If they were lucky they would end up in the lottery and get their hands on a quality 2way big. Thats what that team needs.

Swashcuff
11-08-2013, 01:18 PM
Iggy at this stage of his career is overrated though. Offensively Chandler/Hamilton can easily replace the 13-14 ppg Iggy brought with better shooting minus the ball handling. Hamilton showed alot of promise last yr. Karls system can hide alot of weaknesses. Iggy's reputation precedes him I'll leave it at that as the Warriors guards showed last year.

What rep are you talking about, dude has been a top 5 defensive winger for the past 5 seasons and in the last 3 years particularly just kept getting better. Iggy wasn't just a ball handler he was a secondary playmaker on the floor with Lawson, now it's just Lawson in the starting line up, neither Hamilton nor Chandler can create for others and in a team such as Denver's having multiple playmakers on the floor at once is a luxury. Karl's system can't hide your defensive inability in the half court, his system also can't hide the fact that once Lawson or Miller isn't on the floor there is no one else on the team capable of creating for their teammates.

Lim
11-08-2013, 01:53 PM
Because anyone with a brain could realize that the team they had assembled was not winning any championships. They made the right choice. They should blow it up even more. Get rid of everyone except Kenneth Faried.

D-Leethal
11-08-2013, 02:16 PM
It all started years ago when Deal Oliver left them for ESPN

Lmfao. That explains their best season in years alright.

KnickFanSince91
11-08-2013, 02:31 PM
Because those 57 wins were fool's gold.

slashsnake
11-08-2013, 02:41 PM
Iggy left, but they didn't help to keep him by blowing up the front office. They knew those moves hurt their ability to retain him.

Short reason they blew things up? They couldnt win playoff games. Sure run and gun is the greatest thing to watch all regular season long (I know, I dont miss any of their games on Altitude). But the goals set out were higher than just make the playoffs. In the past 8 years under Karl they got out of the first round once.

It may be a move backwards but I dont think they had any shot of being a good post season team like they were.

I think they could go 10-11 deep with anybody in the league. Which works fine in a 10 man rotation in the regular season. But as that got down to a 7-8 man rotation in the playoffs, their depth was no longer a big advantage.

lol, please
11-08-2013, 06:54 PM
They were still one elite player away from title contention, Karl aside.