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shep33
11-15-2013, 12:58 PM
Dwight's numbers are eerily similar to last year in LA. The most noticeable difference is that his field goal percentage is down 5%.

His rebounding is up, but that's because of the inflation of playing with a smaller 4 in the lineup. Input Pau Gasol who averaged 10 rpg last year, and yeah of course your numbers are going to be higher this year without him.

I dunno, but it seems like he's not the same player as he was in Orlando. Just don't see that same beast. He also looks weaker and really just less dominating. I think that back injury did a number on him.

Still the best center in the league, but he's not even close to the player that he was

shep33
11-15-2013, 01:01 PM
Don't expect him to win anymore DPOY awards with Houston's current roster. The Rockets are giving up 106 ppg, 3rd worst in the NBA. Pretty much the same as last year in terms of ranking

Chronz
11-15-2013, 01:19 PM
I remember when Eddy Curry used to "outplay" Shaq.

tredigs
11-15-2013, 01:24 PM
I remember when Eddy Curry used to "outplay" Shaq.

The sad thing is that Bargnani legitimately outplayed Dwight. I didn't see a scenario where Dwight did not put up 30/20 with 5 blocks tonight. I do not understand the dude.

Gibby23
11-15-2013, 01:28 PM
The sad thing is that Bargnani legitimately outplayed Dwight. I didn't see a scenario where Dwight did not put up 30/20 with 5 blocks tonight. I do not understand the dude.

He is trting to be something he isn't. He has an bad post game and if you have a 7 footer on him, you can play him 1 on 1 and he will take a bad shot or turn it over, or get fouled. He doesn't want to be a pick and roll player or get out and run. He should be beating these big men down the floor and get eady baskets.

D-Leethal
11-15-2013, 01:38 PM
I remember when Eddy Curry used to "outplay" Shaq.

Are you insinuating that Bargs didn't actually outplay Dwight last night?

Everytime Dwight came back in the game we made a run, everytime they went small ball and played Jones at the 4 they destroyed us.

D-Leethal
11-15-2013, 01:39 PM
I'm waiting for ManRam to come back - he went into hiding sometime around the 3rd quarter after saying Bargs had nothing for Dwight right up until halftime.

Chronz
11-15-2013, 01:47 PM
The sad thing is that Bargnani legitimately outplayed Dwight. I didn't see a scenario where Dwight did not put up 30/20 with 5 blocks tonight. I do not understand the dude.

So did Curry. Curry made such a routine out of showing up when Shaq came to town that he was dubbed Baby Shaq by the big fella himself IIRC.

Dwights having a poor start to the year, didn't think he could look worse than he did in LA but its pretty close.

Shlumpledink
11-15-2013, 01:55 PM
I apologize for saying he'd improve his free throw shooting

Chronz
11-15-2013, 01:56 PM
Are you insinuating that Bargs didn't actually outplay Dwight last night?

Everytime Dwight came back in the game we made a run, everytime they went small ball and played Jones at the 4 they destroyed us.

Didn't catch the game, chocolate wasted

tredigs
11-15-2013, 01:58 PM
So did Curry. Curry made such a routine out of showing up when Shaq came to town that he was dubbed Baby Shaq by the big fella himself IIRC.

Dwights having a poor start to the year, didn't think he could look worse than he did in LA but its pretty close.
That's funny - I do remember a few huge Curry games against Kazaam, and Bargnani's actually been good since he took over Tyson's spot. So it's not a as big of an embarrassment as most think. I'm guessing he heard the collective sigh of New York when Tyson went down and decided to give it some effort. SF #'s, but you'll take it.

mightybosstone
11-15-2013, 03:50 PM
It's not just bad games. He is still the same player he was last year. He is good, but is far fron consistant. He still has no post game at all and can't shoot FT's.
You can rip the guy's post game all you want to, but he's more skilled offensively than almost every center in the NBA today. And his poor free throw shooting is hardly abnormal for centers, even for the all-time great ones. Wilt. Russell. Shaq. Duncan through most of his career. All of those guys sucked at shooting free throws, so this is not a new development.


no one is overreacting to one game. we're reacting to his complete lack of basketball skill and talent.
dwight has shown practically zero progress on the offensive end since entering the league.

top 5 player in the league? he might not even be a top 5 center.

Are you ****ing kidding me? How many centers in the NBA average seven points per game? Five, and Dwight is one of them. Who leads the league in rebounding? Dwight. How many players average at least 2.5 blockers per game? Five, and Dwight is one of them. And how many centers in the league average 17/10/2? One. Dwight Howard. (Unless you count Anthony Davis as a center, which I'm not quite ready to do yet)

I'm not going to sit here and call Dwight Howard a top five player, because I don't think he is. But top 10-15? Certainly. And he's easily one of the best centers in the league, if not the best overall.

Bruno
11-15-2013, 04:17 PM
The Houston Rockets regular season is 12% completed. Dwight is posting a WS/48 that is lower than his rookie year WS/48 figures. His PER is worse than it was last year in Los Angeles, so is his TS%. Houston isn't in the top half of the league in defensive rating. they allow the third most points per game allowed in the NBA despite not being top five in pace. Dwight has posted a WS/48 of .151 over his past 140 regular season games dating back to 2011-2012. Seems like a big enough sample size to me to suggest that maybe 2007/2008-2010/2011 Dwight isn't coming back.

mightybosstone
11-15-2013, 04:21 PM
The Houston Rockets regular season is 12% completed. Dwight is posting a WS/48 that is lower than his rookie year WS/48 figures. His PER is worse than it was last year in Los Angeles, so is his TS%. Houston isn't in the top half of the league in defensive rating. they allow the third most points per game allowed in the NBA despite not being top five in pace. Dwight has posted a WS/48 of .151 over his past 140 regular season games dating back to 2011-2012. Seems like a big enough sample size to me to suggest that maybe 2007/2008-2010/2011 Dwight isn't coming back.

It's fair to say Orlando Dwight probably isn't coming back. I'm totally fine with that theory, and I think there's valid justification for it. But I'm not ready to say he won't be better than his Laker season. He seems to give more ****s on defense, he's killing it on the glass and he looks more active offensively. Statistically, it's been a mixed bag, but you have to remember that this team still hasn't figured out its starting lineup yet. Let's give the Rockets half a season to figure out what works before we condemn them to mediocrity.

freejimmer
11-15-2013, 04:25 PM
D12 should apologize to the Magic and Lakers and everyone he disappointed with his attitude and lackluster performance.

Oh and Bagnani shti on him last night.

mightybosstone
11-15-2013, 04:29 PM
D12 should apologize to the Magic and Lakers and everyone he disappointed with his attitude and lackluster performance.

Oh and Bagnani shti on him last night.

One game does not a career make.

sammyvine
11-15-2013, 04:32 PM
Ridiculously overrated player that has gotten a pass over these years. His attitude and demeanour is also awful

He has no post game what so ever and is an overrated defender. The lack of quality centres has helped dwight howard massively

sammyvine
11-15-2013, 04:33 PM
I can also see why shaq hates him.

srekal
11-15-2013, 04:35 PM
Dwight is a mental midget who destroys team chemistry.... Thank you for taking him off our hands. He is a good player but the amount of media he gets for how basic he plays is unbelievable. If he was a 10 million dollar player, he'd be good and wouldn't have such a skewed vision of himself and the media circus wouldn't be there.

Bruno
11-15-2013, 05:36 PM
It's fair to say Orlando Dwight probably isn't coming back. I'm totally fine with that theory, and I think there's valid justification for it. But I'm not ready to say he won't be better than his Laker season. He seems to give more ****s on defense, he's killing it on the glass and he looks more active offensively. Statistically, it's been a mixed bag, but you have to remember that this team still hasn't figured out its starting lineup yet. Let's give the Rockets half a season to figure out what works before we condemn them to mediocrity.Me neither, that remains to be seen.

I think thats totally fair and i'm glad you said it because that was gona be my next question. And if you're asking me I think Houston can be elite offensively (especially with a trade). But I think it will be hard for Houston to finish top ten in defensive rating; there's just too many holes defensively, Harden included. I think Houston has top five offensive rating potential, will finish between 11th and 16th in defensive rating and finish with a top ten SRS. thats where I think this is going but I could be wrong.

mightybosstone
11-16-2013, 12:25 AM
Dwight is a mental midget who destroys team chemistry.... Thank you for taking him off our hands. He is a good player but the amount of media he gets for how basic he plays is unbelievable. If he was a 10 million dollar player, he'd be good and wouldn't have such a skewed vision of himself and the media circus wouldn't be there.

Get over yourself. I'm guessing you're a Laker fan, and I guarantee you'd be defending the guy if he were still wearing the purple and gold.

mightybosstone
11-16-2013, 12:28 AM
Me neither, that remains to be seen.

I think thats totally fair and i'm glad you said it because that was gona be my next question. And if you're asking me I think Houston can be elite offensively (especially with a trade). But I think it will be hard for Houston to finish top ten in defensive rating; there's just too many holes defensively, Harden included. I think Houston has top five offensive rating potential, will finish between 11th and 16th in defensive rating and finish with a top ten SRS. thats where I think this is going but I could be wrong.

That's a fair assessment, but even if they're a middle of the pack team defensively, that would be a huge upgrade from last season, where they were pretty atrocious on the defensive end of the floor. I do think the Rockets will make some kind of deal with Asik to acquire a decent stretch PF, but we'll have to see what that does to their front court from a defensive standpoint.

The scary thing about this Rockets team is how they're 6-4 despite losing some close games they should have won and absolutely shooting like trash from the 3-point line. They were one of the best 3-point shooting teams in the league a season ago, but Parsons and Harden have really struggled with their perimeter shots to start the season, and both guys are dealing with injuries.

Once the 3-pointers start to fall, this Rockets team will be one of the 2-3 best offensive teams in the league.

Bruno
11-16-2013, 12:43 AM
That's a fair assessment, but even if they're a middle of the pack team defensively, that would be a huge upgrade from last season, where they were pretty atrocious on the defensive end of the floor. I do think the Rockets will make some kind of deal with Asik to acquire a decent stretch PF, but we'll have to see what that does to their front court from a defensive standpoint.

The scary thing about this Rockets team is how they're 6-4 despite losing some close games they should have won and absolutely shooting like trash from the 3-point line. They were one of the best 3-point shooting teams in the league a season ago, but Parsons and Harden have really struggled with their perimeter shots to start the season, and both guys are dealing with injuries.

Once the 3-pointers start to fall, this Rockets team will be one of the 2-3 best offensive teams in the league.

i hear ya. i think houston can be elite offensively too. surprisingly, they were 16th in defensive rating last year according to basketball reference.

P&GRealist
11-16-2013, 01:03 AM
Get over yourself. I'm guessing you're a Laker fan, and I guarantee you'd be defending the guy if he were still wearing the purple and gold.

90% of Lakers fans wanted him gone 3/4th thru last season. Nice try though.

FlashBolt
11-16-2013, 03:18 AM
Howard has been really horrible this season. He's definitely not dominating like he should be. He's barely averaging two blocks and still looks vulnerable on the post. It's quite shameful because they definitely have the pieces.

Sssmush
11-16-2013, 06:15 AM
*meh*

He left, and that's fine. Asking for an actual apology from Laker fans seems a bit ridiculous... although honestly it is the type of thing I might expect him to say.

Interview him enough times, put enough microphones in front of him and eventually he will probably say this exact thing, that Laker fans should "apologize" to him.

Lakers Ghost
11-16-2013, 01:36 PM
Forum for people in the future, and people today to apologize to Dwight. I have no problem with people questioning his attitude but questioning his game crossed the line for me. He's back, and just as good as ever. Who knows where the Rockets go this year, but he's definitely the best Center in the league again...

BY FAR

HOWARD is the one that should apologize to the lakers organization not nba fans. Wait a little longer before you start going on about how great howard is.

Lakers Ghost
11-16-2013, 01:40 PM
Get over yourself. I'm guessing you're a Laker fan, and I guarantee you'd be defending the guy if he were still wearing the purple and gold.

I am clearly a lakers fan and I could tell you that most lakers fans want him out of L.A and are happy that he is gone.

FOBolous
12-26-2013, 05:52 PM
For the month of December, Dwight Howard's averaging 21 pts, 15 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, .617 FG%, .602 FT%.



just an fyi.

John Walls Era
12-26-2013, 06:07 PM
Here we go again...

goku
12-26-2013, 06:07 PM
Howard has been really horrible this season. He's definitely not dominating like he should be. He's barely averaging two blocks and still looks vulnerable on the post. It's quite shameful because they definitely have the pieces.

LOL Kendrick Perkins is prolly having a better season then Dwight to u huh ?

lol, please
12-26-2013, 06:08 PM
Forum for people in the future, and people today to apologize to Dwight. I have no problem with people questioning his attitude but questioning his game crossed the line for me. He's back, and just as good as ever. Who knows where the Rockets go this year, but he's definitely the best Center in the league again...

BY FAR
:laugh: :laugh:

blahblahyoutoo
12-26-2013, 06:13 PM
For the month of December, Dwight Howard's averaging 21 pts, 15 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, .617 FG%, .602 FT%.



just an fyi.

i haven't seen a lot of the games, but it seems like he's not really a difference maker although he's putting up decent numbers.
harden and parson are more integral to the team than dwight is.

goku
12-26-2013, 06:24 PM
i haven't seen a lot of the games, but it seems like he's not really a difference maker although he's putting up decent numbers.
harden and parson are more integral to the team than dwight is.


well he did have 15 and 20 last night

goku
12-26-2013, 06:26 PM
:laugh: :laugh:

is bogut better ?

FOBolous
12-26-2013, 06:40 PM
i haven't seen a lot of the games, but it seems like he's not really a difference maker although he's putting up decent numbers.
harden and parson are more integral to the team than dwight is.

yes. Because players averaging those stats makes no difference in a game.

John Walls Era
12-26-2013, 10:53 PM
Every time some idiot bumps this thread, Dwight goes on a terrible stretch...

b@llhog24
12-27-2013, 12:38 AM
Every time some idiot bumps this thread, Dwight goes on a terrible stretch...

Cause one game is defined as a terrible stretch?

John Walls Era
12-27-2013, 01:22 AM
Cause one game is defined as a terrible stretch?

obviously its starting today when it was bumped this morning...

Nick O
12-27-2013, 01:38 AM
i bet dwight has a huge penis

blahblahyoutoo
12-30-2013, 11:32 AM
yes. Because players averaging those stats makes no difference in a game.

dwight disappearing in big games. like last night.
non-factor from the best center in the league.

RLundi
12-30-2013, 03:55 PM
i bet dwight has a huge penis

Burnt loaf of Cuban bread.

Chronz
12-30-2013, 04:59 PM
dwight disappearing in big games. like last night.
non-factor from the best center in the league.

right because Harden was very impactful that game

mightybosstone
12-30-2013, 05:04 PM
I really ****ing hope this thread doesn't pop up every time Dwight has a great game or a terrible game. Bottom line, the guy is playing pretty great basketball right now despite a few bad games here and there, and he's clearly the happiest he's been playing the game as he's been in years. He loves Houston and he's getting along great with his teammates. He spent a freaking ton of money buying gifts for his teammates, and they all rave about the guy's heart.

Take a **** on him all you want, but the Rockets are still a very dangerous team. If they can get healthy and Harden can play like 2012-13 Harden, Houston could feasibly win the Western Conference and Dwight will be a huge piece to that puzzle.

blahblahyoutoo
12-30-2013, 07:45 PM
right because Harden was very impactful that game

harden's night has nothing to do with the best center in the league being able to impact the game.
dwight disappears way too often. he was shut down by kendrick ****ing perkins.
imagine if this were hakeem. true #1 centers like hakeem have an impact on the game everytime he steps foot on the court. same can't be said about dwight.

Chronz
12-30-2013, 08:40 PM
harden's night has nothing to do with the best center in the league being able to impact the game.
dwight disappears way too often. he was shut down by kendrick ****ing perkins.
imagine if this were hakeem. true #1 centers like hakeem have an impact on the game everytime he steps foot on the court. same can't be said about dwight.

This is what you said:

i haven't seen a lot of the games, but it seems like he's not really a difference maker although he's putting up decent numbers.
harden and parson are more integral to the team than dwight is.

When someone told you about Dwights impact, you mentioned his no show. Harden no showed as well, in fact he was even worse than Dwight was.

You've already admitted to not watching them much so Im not trying to argue, just looking for some consistency.

Why is it OK for Harden to no show but not Dwight, even when he showed up bigger than Harden did?

Sactown
12-30-2013, 08:47 PM
This is what you said:


When someone told you about Dwights impact, you mentioned his no show. Harden no showed as well, in fact he was even worse than Dwight was.

You've already admitted to not watching them much so Im not trying to argue, just looking for some consistency.

Why is it OK for Harden to no show but not Dwight, even when he showed up bigger than Harden did?
Not exactly a valid statement when individually evaluating Dwights impact, because the best player on the team goes ghost doesn't exactly give you a reason to do the same... right?

Unless you're stating that because of Hardens inability to get it going it, it caused Dwight to be ineffective, but in that case it's more of a testament to Harden than to Dwight, and would further prove Dwights inability to produce on offensive unless someone creates his shots for him.

I don't understand why everyone values Dwights impact based on his offensive impact... he's easily the most dominating and intimidating defensive big... It's like beating a dead horse by saying his limited on the offensive end.... We all get it.. he's not Shaq in the post.. regardless of how he plays on the offensive end, he's always affective because he's always rebounding and changing/blocking shots.

John Walls Era
12-30-2013, 08:53 PM
You know its bad when people need to bring up other players performance to validate Dwight's bad night. Look I will personally insult that player too when they're the thread topic...

And Houston is a very good team. Hard to disagree there.

blahblahyoutoo
12-30-2013, 09:00 PM
This is what you said:


When someone told you about Dwights impact, you mentioned his no show. Harden no showed as well, in fact he was even worse than Dwight was.

You've already admitted to not watching them much so Im not trying to argue, just looking for some consistency.

Why is it OK for Harden to no show but not Dwight, even when he showed up bigger than Harden did?

Harden's performance has no bearing on dwight; especially if he is the best center in the league, he should be making others around him better.
and the topic of this thread is dwight, not harden.

Asik's better
12-30-2013, 09:45 PM
This thread needs to be shut down, it's the biggest knee jerk reaction thread of all time. Here is the truth, Dwight is having solid season as is the rockets. The rockets are the 5th seed with 2 wins over the spurs away and 1 win over the blazers away. There is no need to bury the rockets and Dwight after 1 bad game. Dwight played well in both games against golden state, both games against the spurs, he out played hibbert and might set the record for the most 15+ rebounding games in a season. We all need to settle down and revisit after the all star break and then after the finals

tredigs
12-30-2013, 10:07 PM
Not exactly a valid statement when individually evaluating Dwights impact, because the best player on the team goes ghost doesn't exactly give you a reason to do the same... right?

Unless you're stating that because of Hardens inability to get it going it, it caused Dwight to be ineffective, but in that case it's more of a testament to Harden than to Dwight, and would further prove Dwights inability to produce on offensive unless someone creates his shots for him.

I don't understand why everyone values Dwights impact based on his offensive impact... he's easily the most dominating and intimidating defensive big... It's like beating a dead horse by saying his limited on the offensive end.... We all get it.. he's not Shaq in the post.. regardless of how he plays on the offensive end, he's always affective because he's always rebounding and changing/blocking shots.

People still think Dwight is the best defensive big in the league? He's not even in Hibbert's league on that end at this point.

Chronz
01-01-2014, 06:42 PM
Not exactly a valid statement when individually evaluating Dwights impact, because the best player on the team goes ghost doesn't exactly give you a reason to do the same... right?

Im not the one evaluating anything, Im looking for some level of consistency in his argument.


Unless you're stating that because of Hardens inability to get it going it, it caused Dwight to be ineffective, but in that case it's more of a testament to Harden than to Dwight, and would further prove Dwights inability to produce on offensive unless someone creates his shots for him.
I dont think thats the argument at hand here tho, you cant use a bad performance unequally. I understand that you're adding context here but Im not really contesting any kind of stance. If what you're saying is true, so be it. Still have you really been watching the Rox and looked up any numbers to support it?


I don't understand why everyone values Dwights impact based on his offensive impact... he's easily the most dominating and intimidating defensive big... It's like beating a dead horse by saying his limited on the offensive end.... We all get it.. he's not Shaq in the post.. regardless of how he plays on the offensive end, he's always affective because he's always rebounding and changing/blocking shots.
Hes been underrated offensively is why and hes really not the best defensive big anymore IMO. Still I cant tell which one you think is the best player.

Chronz
01-01-2014, 06:44 PM
Harden's performance has no bearing on dwight; especially if he is the best center in the league, he should be making others around him better.
and the topic of this thread is dwight, not harden.
You're still not getting it, you cant blame one player and praise another by pointing out a bad performance yet COMPLETELY ignore the even worse performance from the player you deem superior.

KnicksorBust
01-01-2014, 07:10 PM
I don't need to apologize to Dwight. All I'm saying is I'm pissed at the Rockets FO bc Asik should be gone. This team CAN win a title THIS SEASON and they are holding back a prime Dwight/Harden season.

5ass
01-01-2014, 07:20 PM
I don't need to apologize to Dwight. All I'm saying is I'm pissed at the Rockets FO bc Asik should be gone. This team CAN win a title THIS SEASON and they are holding back a prime Dwight/Harden season.
Morey is just being patient. No reason to doubt the guy, he's done an excellent job so far.

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2014, 08:58 PM
You're still not getting it, you cant blame one player and praise another by pointing out a bad performance yet COMPLETELY ignore the even worse performance from the player you deem superior.

first off, I never praised Harden. I don't even like the guy and think he's overrated.

secondly, yes I can. what kind of logic is that?
we'll just have to agree to disagree.

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2014, 09:07 PM
on a related note, what happened to dwight in the loss to the kings?
45 mins and only 15 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block, and most importantly, a loss.

yes, i'm judging from the box score only but still, i'm expecting a bigger contribution from the best center in the league.
this is what I mean by disappearing and not having an impact. once awhile he'll have a monster game, but it appears just as often, he lays an egg.

KnicksorBust
01-01-2014, 09:10 PM
Morey is just being patient. No reason to doubt the guy, he's done an excellent job so far.

I'm a huge proponent on two things:

1. Guys sitting out don't get MORE valuable over time.
2. Chemistry is huge for title contenders.

Asik will net at least one key role player and the sooner he can get acclimated to the Rockets the better. They set a deadline and passed on at least one reasonable offer. Mistake.


on a related note, what happened to dwight in the loss to the kings?
45 mins and only 15 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block.

yes, i'm judging from the box score only but still, i'm expecting a bigger contribution from the best center in the league.
this is what I mean by disappearing and not having an impact. once awhile he'll have a monster game, but it appears just as often, he lays an egg.

15 points / 8 rebounds / 1 block is an egg? :laugh: Tell that to Greg Monroe. That's basically his season statline and people think he's a young stud.

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2014, 09:17 PM
I'm a huge proponent on two things:

1. Guys sitting out don't get MORE valuable over time.
2. Chemistry is huge for title contenders.

Asik will net at least one key role player and the sooner he can get acclimated to the Rockets the better. They set a deadline and passed on at least one reasonable offer. Mistake.



15 points / 8 rebounds / 1 block is an egg? :laugh: Tell that to Greg Monroe. That's basically his season statline and people think he's a young stud.

yup, it is for the best center in the league. is monroe the best center?
look at what numbers robinson, ewing, hakeem, shaq were putting up in their days on a regular basis against each other.

meloman1592
01-01-2014, 09:40 PM
So people think hibbert is a better defensive big than Dwight? Hahahahaaaa

Chronz
01-01-2014, 10:02 PM
first off, I never praised Harden. I don't even like the guy and think he's overrated.
You praised Harden when you mentioned him being more influential on the team. Someone mocked your stance about Dwight having minimal impact, to which you pointed out a single game, the same game where the guy you praised sucked as well. All caught up?


secondly, yes I can. what kind of logic is that?
I mean technically you can, but you would have to be openly fine with being a hypocrite, in which case why would anyone care?

Chronz
01-01-2014, 10:02 PM
So people think hibbert is a better defensive big than Dwight? Hahahahaaaa
you think otherwise? lullmfaololololz

Chronz
01-01-2014, 10:04 PM
on a related note, what happened to dwight in the loss to the kings?
45 mins and only 15 pts, 8 rebs and 1 block, and most importantly, a loss.

yes, i'm judging from the box score only but still, i'm expecting a bigger contribution from the best center in the league.
this is what I mean by disappearing and not having an impact. once awhile he'll have a monster game, but it appears just as often, he lays an egg.

Once in awhile? LMFAO

Hawkeye15
01-01-2014, 10:11 PM
So people think hibbert is a better defensive big than Dwight? Hahahahaaaa

he has become better the last 18 months, yes.

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2014, 10:19 PM
You praised Harden when you mentioned him being more influential on the team. Someone mocked your stance about Dwight having minimal impact, to which you pointed out a single game, the same game where the guy you praised sucked as well. All caught up?


I mean technically you can, but you would have to be openly fine with being a hypocrite, in which case why would anyone care?

the only thing i'm caught up on is that you're incapable of separate two players and judging them individually, as if one player directly affects the play of the other.
i choose to judge dwight because this is a dwight thread. if we have a harden thread, I'll criticize him in there.

FOBolous
01-02-2014, 01:46 AM
the only thing i'm caught up on is that you're incapable of separate two players and judging them individually, as if one player directly affects the play of the other.
i choose to judge dwight because this is a dwight thread. if we have a harden thread, I'll criticize him in there.

i think what Chronz is doing is calling you out for your double standards,. you expect absolute perfection (meaning no bad games) from Dwight in order for him to not be a failure in your opinion...regardless of how good he's doing overall while excusing other players when they have bad games.

Chronz
01-02-2014, 01:33 PM
the only thing i'm caught up on is that you're incapable of separate two players and judging them individually, as if one player directly affects the play of the other.
Thats because you directly praised one over the other. When you do that, you have to show some level of consistency. What sparks the discussion is the comparison, if you had just said that Dwight was overrated without mentioning anything else, I wouldn't have cared because it would be a hallow complaint. But when you add context, thats when we can begin to assess the stance.




i choose to judge dwight because this is a dwight thread. if we have a harden thread, I'll criticize him in there.

Too bad you already mentioned Harden's name in the Dwight thread. LMFAO

Tony_Starks
01-02-2014, 02:11 PM
I'd take Hibbert over Dwight and if you consider Davis a center I'd gladly take him as well...

ztilzer31
03-06-2014, 07:49 PM
Forum for people in the future, and people today to apologize to Dwight. I have no problem with people questioning his attitude but questioning his game crossed the line for me. He's back, and just as good as ever. Who knows where the Rockets go this year, but he's definitely the best Center in the league again...

BY FAR

Man it's like this guy knows the future or something. It's like he actually uses something other than PSD articles to make his evaluations on players.

Anyone still trying to convince us that Chris Kaman is better than Dwight?

You guys can all get in a single file line please to SUCK MY BALLS!

ztilzer31
03-06-2014, 07:50 PM
Oh yeah and where's Bruno to tell me that Brooks Lopez is better than Dwight? LOL.

Please I would love some of you guys to tell me how horrible Dwight is some more, and how he's not a top 5 Center in the league.

Please I'm begging you. Lakers fans tell me how your team got better by getting rid of Dwight please.

Sorry, but I waited long enough to gloat in this topic. Some of you guys need to eat some serious crow.

Sssmush
03-06-2014, 08:37 PM
Forum for people in the future, and people today to apologize to Dwight. I have no problem with people questioning his attitude but questioning his game crossed the line for me. He's back, and just as good as ever. Who knows where the Rockets go this year, but he's definitely the best Center in the league again...

BY FAR

LoL I'm enjoying the sudden March media push to resurrect Dwight's superstar status to save the shoe contract investment or whatever.

Who has even seen him play more than a few highlights here or there lately or the Miami game? Most of what I've seen has been unimpressive, and a few ESPN commentators half-heartedly saying "Dwight's back" because Houston wins a few games in a row on Harden's hot shooting changes nothing.

Look how far the standards have fallen: it used to be about would this guy be the next Shaq, possibly the greatest bigman ever, the new standard, lining up championships for the next 10 years.

Now it's like, ok he averaged 14 points a game, didn't make any idiotic plays and Harden had a hot shooting month to get them to 3rd in the West. So he's a superstar again.

Honestly it's kind of pathetic, it's better for everyone if they just minimize the reporting on this depressing subject because Houston has about a zero percent chance of even getting to the WCFs much less the Finals.

houstonfan
03-06-2014, 08:48 PM
LoL I'm enjoying the sudden March media push to resurrect Dwight's superstar status to save the shoe contract investment or whatever.

Who has even seen him play more than a few highlights here or there lately or the Miami game? Most of what I've seen has been unimpressive, and a few ESPN commentators half-heartedly saying "Dwight's back" because Houston wins a few games in a row on Harden's hot shooting changes nothing.

Look how far the standards have fallen: it used to be about would this guy be the next Shaq, possibly the greatest bigman ever, the new standard, lining up championships for the next 10 years.

Now it's like, ok he averaged 14 points a game, didn't make any idiotic plays and Harden had a hot shooting month to get them to 3rd in the West. So he's a superstar again.

Honestly it's kind of pathetic, it's better for everyone if they just minimize the reporting on this depressing subject because Houston has about a zero percent chance of even getting to the WCFs much less the Finals.

While I respect your opinion on Dwight although I completely disagree with it, can you explain why you think they have no chance of making the WCF's? They are the hottest team in the NBA right now and are the 3rd seed in the western conference.

ztilzer31
03-06-2014, 08:52 PM
LoL I'm enjoying the sudden March media push to resurrect Dwight's superstar status to save the shoe contract investment or whatever.

Who has even seen him play more than a few highlights here or there lately or the Miami game? Most of what I've seen has been unimpressive, and a few ESPN commentators half-heartedly saying "Dwight's back" because Houston wins a few games in a row on Harden's hot shooting changes nothing.

Look how far the standards have fallen: it used to be about would this guy be the next Shaq, possibly the greatest bigman ever, the new standard, lining up championships for the next 10 years.

Now it's like, ok he averaged 14 points a game, didn't make any idiotic plays and Harden had a hot shooting month to get them to 3rd in the West. So he's a superstar again.

Honestly it's kind of pathetic, it's better for everyone if they just minimize the reporting on this depressing subject because Houston has about a zero percent chance of even getting to the WCFs much less the Finals.

Dwight Howard will go down as one of if not the greatest defensive big man ever.

Yeah sure he's not as good as KAJ/Shaq/Hakeem/Wilt. But that doesn't make him not amazing.

Let me tell you something. Shaq never developed the ability to shoot free throws, and lacked effort on defense for 50% of his career. Does that make him a bad player because if he made free throws, and played more defense he'd be the undisputed GOAT?

No one is saying that Dwight isn't a dick. However that doesn't diminish how amazing he truly is.

The teams I watch mostly in the NBA are the Houston Rockets, and Miami Heat, and Dwight Howard is back. 100%. He won't get 14 rpg anymore, but he's definitely the defensive anchor on Houston, and the big difference from 2 season ago. I'm not denying Harden (and Parsons) have gotten better, but so has the entire Western Conference.

I called it a week into the season. He might be getting media coverage now, but watching Dwight play defense is pretty easy to tell he intimidates everyone on the floor. Players don't even try to post when Dwight is on the floor. He's a game changer.

alexander_37
03-06-2014, 09:49 PM
Dwight is averaging 19/12.5, while playing the lowest minutes per game since his rookie year. He is back to his old self if not better.

rockets-fan
03-06-2014, 09:50 PM
LoL I'm enjoying the sudden March media push to resurrect Dwight's superstar status to save the shoe contract investment or whatever.

Who has even seen him play more than a few highlights here or there lately or the Miami game? Most of what I've seen has been unimpressive, and a few ESPN commentators half-heartedly saying "Dwight's back" because Houston wins a few games in a row on Harden's hot shooting changes nothing.

Look how far the standards have fallen: it used to be about would this guy be the next Shaq, possibly the greatest bigman ever, the new standard, lining up championships for the next 10 years.

Now it's like, ok he averaged 14 points a game, didn't make any idiotic plays and Harden had a hot shooting month to get them to 3rd in the West. So he's a superstar again.

Honestly it's kind of pathetic, it's better for everyone if they just minimize the reporting on this depressing subject because Houston has about a zero percent chance of even getting to the WCFs much less the Finals.


Smh, your lack of basketball knowledge is hilarious. I don't like Howard as much as the next guy but they guy has been balling and proving me wrong, since I didn't want the Rockets to sign him.

0% chance? Really?!? You sound sour.

ztilzer31
03-06-2014, 10:00 PM
Smh, your lack of basketball knowledge is hilarious. I don't like Howard as much as the next guy but they guy has been balling and proving me wrong, since I didn't want the Rockets to sign him.

0% chance? Really?!? You sound sour.

The sad thing is dude. I don't like Howard either. He seems like kind of a tool.

However that doesn't mean I'm just going to sit back and let guys bash on him for being "lazy" and "not a top 5 center" and not say something. I'm also damn well not going to let people say that dumb ****, and then tell me he'll never be any good again, and not make them eat crow. This thread should be sticky'd on here so the people that said this **** get put on blast forever. This is the kind of dumb that hurts society. Not liking someone doesn't make them bad at something. It's a child's mentality.

Bruno
03-07-2014, 12:57 AM
Dwight Howards WS/48 for this year is .174. From 2009 through 2011 his WS/48 with Orlando was .231. Most semi- objective NBA fans will be able to look at his numbers and acknowledge that he has not returned to his peak Orlando forum. In fact he's still closer to his 2013 Lakers WS/48 numbers (.134) this season (.174) than his best years in Orlando from 2009-2011(.231). those are the numbers.

He's been better this year than he was last year with the Lakers. A lot of that has to do with his diet, which he's now taking seriously. Last year with the Lakers he consumed the equivalent of 24 hershey bars worth of sugar every day because he ate a lot of candy and drank a lot of soda.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/prior-doctor-intervention-dwight-howard-eating-equivalent-24-215009519--nba.html

He handled his health and nutrition irresponsibly and its impact could be seen on the floor last year. He didn't do his due diligence to be the best he could with the Lakers be and thats why nobody in LA respects him; this mentality and approach to being a professional while with the Lakers was cemented when he got himself ejected in the final game of the sweep against SA, where he crumbled like a China doll as Duncan dominated him mentally.


Dwight Howard is exactly what I predicted him to be months ago. He hasn't returned to peak Orlando forum for the season, but he has been better than he was as a Laker. The Rockets are exactly what I said they were going to be. A team that won't finish top ten in defensive rating, but will have a legitimate chance to finish top five in defensive rating (as of today Houston is 12th in defensive rating and 5th in offensive rating). The Rockets should advance to the second round, maybe the WCF. they won't be representing the west in the finals.

nobody has to eat crow for anything. making the prediction that he'll never return to Orlando forum isn't a childish mentality, it was just an analysis based off what we knew about him, his back surgery, his diet and his age. Bumping a two month old thread where you thoroughly embarrassed yourself in the attempt to tell everyone to suck your ***** is childish. it's also out of accordance with PSD rules.

I've given Dwight plenty of props since this embarrassment of a thread dropped pages back. But to suggest that he is what he was in 2009 is statistically inaccurate. OP should take a look at some analytics on the individual and team level before gloating or looking to show individual posters up.

this is the last post I'll contribute to this thread until Dwight Howard dominates the post-season and wins Finals MVP.

Sssmush
03-07-2014, 07:21 AM
Yeah, I guess as a Laker fan, I've been more confused or let down by the entire "Dwight situation" so far. I mean if he was dominating, on the level of a KD or a Lebron or a CP3 or a Shaq or a Rodman or something, believe me I would watch and root for the guy. I'd watch the highlights, I'd tune in wherever he was playing just to marvel at his physical prowess and defensive aggression, his mind blowing strength, speed and athleticism.

I am not a homer to the extent that I won't go out of my way to see something that is truly amazing athletically. I may not care for the Spurs but I get incredibly excited and impressed to see Spurs basketball at its best; I don't like the Clippers but I will watch Blake Griffin highlights on a loop sometimes.

What's weird about the Dwight situation is just that there was so much build up, then the weirdly underwhelming season on the Lakers where everybody somehow played bad and out of sync (except for Kobe), and now in Houston it's just totally *meh* and it's hard to see what the second act will be. Seriously I don't see what there is to be impressed about. I mean where would Dwight rank on the MVP voting right now, like 30th? 40th? It just doesn't seem that amazing and that is what's weird, because the media attention, drama, "stardom", everything is so out of proportion with the basketball play. I mean Anthony Davis and Lamarcus Aldridge are FAR more compelling and exciting big man players right now.

It would be great to see Dwight find his way back to his superstar form. I'd like to see it, see him play great and dominate at an elite level, just for the entertainment value of it. I think that if he keeps working with Houston trainers and lifting / x-training super hard he could get there, next year he should be better.

This year, we should look in the playoffs to see if he can dominate against OKC, just push around and dominate Ibaka and Perkins, keep KD completely out of the paint. Against the Clippers, he should be swatting the shots of Griffin and Jordan, just hammering those guys and intimidating them out of the paint, if he is actually "perhaps the greatest defensive big man" in history or whatever. He should shut down Lamarcus Aldridge completely, and should dominate Duncan to such an extent in a seven game series that Duncan publicly ponders retirement.

Seriously though... :rimshot: ... I would like to see him get back to an elite warrior level. I never really watched him play in Orlando, and I really like to see someone who is next-level amazing and can dominate like a Lebron Rodman or Shaq. Whoever it is. With no Kobe this year, it's like all there is in the league is Lebron and KD, no one else is going totally next-level this season.

goku
03-07-2014, 09:11 AM
I'd take Hibbert over Dwight and if you consider Davis a center I'd gladly take him as well...

lol........

Denver-boy
03-07-2014, 09:42 AM
a The apologize to Dwight thread? :laugh2: really? who cares? Dwights in better place, Lakers are in Last place. end of story.

Htownballa1622
03-07-2014, 09:51 AM
I'd take Hibbert over Dwight and if you consider Davis a center I'd gladly take him as well...

great take as usual. -_-

3RDASYSTEM
03-07-2014, 10:27 AM
14,5 ppg ?


lol.

he doe snot have any SKILLS outside of being an oaf of nature.

no post moves, no iq, no ****.

just freaky muscles probably gotten by doping.

good luck with him when muscles start going old.


and the dude left l.a cause kobe chuked much and he wanted to be the man.............hope he is enjoying hard-on chuking now.

well damn looney toon hellcrooner you just pretty much named every player in sports, JORDAN went from a bean stick rail to bulky stout 220 type lb frame from 180, same with old school nba and baseball and football players, the nfl teams in the 70's were railed out on playoff day? didn't that give them a pain thresh crazy adrenaline rush type edge? BIG AL is a skilled big but doesn't have the oaf of nature, but im sure he would trade half of it for that oaf of nature, just as HOWARD would trade vice versa to have that skill set of BIG AL, but both are pretty much unstoppable because HOWARD can dominate in RUSS type fashion, defense and boards alone and his impact when healthy is unmatched on both sides

he took ROCKETS from 8th seed run and gun fun 1st rd exit to a legit top 3 seed and now a run and lob and post up type contender for next 3yrs if healthy, so I guess when the muscles start getting old on DREXLER/MAGIC/SHAQ and others it didn't count?

SHAQ left also because of bean Bryant's chucking and PHIL JAX wanted him traded so are you saying HOWARD made a good decision?

HARDEN has more double digit assists games at this stage of his career than bean Bryant had at this stage In his, plus he had SHAQ to throw to so I don't understand how HARDEN is over chucking when the offense runs through both but the G will always have free reign for most part since they do bring the ball up and set the o into something, iso or post or pick n roll/pop

he has post moves just no MCHALE/DREAM level but what he is in this era is the most dominant big

at least he didn't win DPOY and not make 1st team all defense like last yr winner, what a ****ing joke of a winner, I bet HOWARD made 1st team d all 3x he won award

3RDASYSTEM
03-07-2014, 10:32 AM
great take as usual. -_-

great take to be 50/50 I guess, wow

nobody takes HIBBERT over HOWARD, and DAVIS is a stud which I already said he was one of the few young franchise players in the game, legit no hype but imagine if he played in LA/NY market instead of N.O., unreal

mightybosstone
03-07-2014, 03:14 PM
God.... I hate that OP keeps bringing this ****ing thread up, because it gives so many people who hate the guy a chance to rip on him, regardless of how well he's playing. But since someone did bring it up and the haters are apparently out in full force, I'd like to address a few points I've seen the last couple of pages...

1. The Rockets are only playing well because Harden is having a great month. This is just an opinion of someone who clearly has watched little to no Rockets basketball. The Rockets have been the hottest team in the league since the start of the year, including an 8-3 stretch in February. Over that month, Dwight posted a ridiculous 23/13/3/2/1 on .654/.617 shooting. Those are pretty ridiculous numbers for anybody. Howard started off March just as hot with 19/12/2/1 on .656/.696 shooting these first three games, including back-to-back beastly performances against Miami and Orlando. He is as much of the reason the Rockets have dominated lately as Harden is.

2. Dwight would be 30th or 40th in MVP voting. I dare ANYONE to find me 20 players in the league more deserving of the MVP than Dwight, much less 30 or 40. Not only are his numbers are strong as any big in the league this season outside of Love, Griffin or Davis, but his defense has been stellar. With essentially the same roster as last season with Asik at center (certainly no slouch defensively), Houston went from being 17th in opponents' FG% last season and 16th in defensive efficiency to 5th in opponents' FG% this year and 9th in defensive efficiency.

3. Dwight's WS/48 is only .175, therefore he's not the same player he was in Orlando. Actually, his last season in Orlando, he boasted a .179 WS/48, so he's not that far removed from that last season, and he's CERTAINLY been a huge improvement from his time in LA (.134 WS/48) no matter what stat you use. But the better question is, Why does he have to be the same guy he was in Orlando? In Orlando, he was a No. 1 offensive weapon on a team that was built entirely around him but never had much of a real shot at winning a title. In Houston, he's more of a No. 2 offensive weapon (no shame in that), which lets him shine more on the defensive end without the pressure of being a No. 1 guy. No, he's not the same player he was in Orlando. But he's also logged a LOT of minutes and is in his 10th season in the league, so there's no shame in not being the same guy he was at his peak given his NBA experience.

4. Houston has no chance of reaching the WCF. Really? Anyone who honestly believes this is a ****ing idiot. Not only has Houston won 13 of their last 15 games, but they've beaten San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix twice and Miami over that stretch. Hell, they've beaten a LOT of really good teams this season. Plus, anyone who knows basketball whatsoever would tell you that playoffs in both college and the NBA are about matchups. The Rockets matchup well enough with San Antonio, Golden State, Portland, Phoenix and Dallas, which is why they've beaten those teams in the regular season. But I wouldn't like their chances quite as much against OKC, the Clippers or Memphis. The West is as wide open right now as it's ever been, and there are 4-6 teams who could feasibly win the conference. To say the team with the conference's third best record and the league's best record since Jan. 1 doesn't have a chance isn't just ignorant, it's totally naive and a little insane. Anyone who believes this needs to seriously get over themselves.

FOBolous
03-07-2014, 03:20 PM
LoL I'm enjoying the sudden March media push to resurrect Dwight's superstar status to save the shoe contract investment or whatever.

Who has even seen him play more than a few highlights here or there lately or the Miami game? Most of what I've seen has been unimpressive, and a few ESPN commentators half-heartedly saying "Dwight's back" because Houston wins a few games in a row on Harden's hot shooting changes nothing.

Look how far the standards have fallen: it used to be about would this guy be the next Shaq, possibly the greatest bigman ever, the new standard, lining up championships for the next 10 years.

Now it's like, ok he averaged 14 points a game, didn't make any idiotic plays and Harden had a hot shooting month to get them to 3rd in the West. So he's a superstar again.

Honestly it's kind of pathetic, it's better for everyone if they just minimize the reporting on this depressing subject because Houston has about a zero percent chance of even getting to the WCFs much less the Finals.

not sure if you're talking about Hibbert or Dwight? :eyebrow::confused: cause dwight's averaging more than 14 ppg

ztilzer31
03-07-2014, 03:28 PM
Dwight Howards WS/48 for this year is .174. From 2009 through 2011 his WS/48 with Orlando was .231. Most semi- objective NBA fans will be able to look at his numbers and acknowledge that he has not returned to his peak Orlando forum. In fact he's still closer to his 2013 Lakers WS/48 numbers (.134) this season (.174) than his best years in Orlando from 2009-2011(.231). those are the numbers.

He's been better this year than he was last year with the Lakers. A lot of that has to do with his diet, which he's now taking seriously. Last year with the Lakers he consumed the equivalent of 24 hershey bars worth of sugar every day because he ate a lot of candy and drank a lot of soda.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/prior-doctor-intervention-dwight-howard-eating-equivalent-24-215009519--nba.html

He handled his health and nutrition irresponsibly and its impact could be seen on the floor last year. He didn't do his due diligence to be the best he could with the Lakers be and thats why nobody in LA respects him; this mentality and approach to being a professional while with the Lakers was cemented when he got himself ejected in the final game of the sweep against SA, where he crumbled like a China doll as Duncan dominated him mentally.


Dwight Howard is exactly what I predicted him to be months ago. He hasn't returned to peak Orlando forum for the season, but he has been better than he was as a Laker. The Rockets are exactly what I said they were going to be. A team that won't finish top ten in defensive rating, but will have a legitimate chance to finish top five in defensive rating (as of today Houston is 12th in defensive rating and 5th in offensive rating). The Rockets should advance to the second round, maybe the WCF. they won't be representing the west in the finals.

nobody has to eat crow for anything. making the prediction that he'll never return to Orlando forum isn't a childish mentality, it was just an analysis based off what we knew about him, his back surgery, his diet and his age. Bumping a two month old thread where you thoroughly embarrassed yourself in the attempt to tell everyone to suck your ***** is childish. it's also out of accordance with PSD rules.

I've given Dwight plenty of props since this embarrassment of a thread dropped pages back. But to suggest that he is what he was in 2009 is statistically inaccurate. OP should take a look at some analytics on the individual and team level before gloating or looking to show individual posters up.

this is the last post I'll contribute to this thread until Dwight Howard dominates the post-season and wins Finals MVP.

Just fyi. Statistically inaccurate means 100% nothing to me. This isn't baseball. I watch basketball games sorry. I don't google them.

ztilzer31
03-07-2014, 03:32 PM
God.... I hate that OP keeps bringing this ****ing thread up, because it gives so many people who hate the guy a chance to rip on him, regardless of how well he's playing. But since someone did bring it up and the haters are apparently out in full force, I'd like to address a few points I've seen the last couple of pages...

1. The Rockets are only playing well because Harden is having a great month. This is just an opinion of someone who clearly has watched little to no Rockets basketball. The Rockets have been the hottest team in the league since the start of the year, including an 8-3 stretch in February. Over that month, Dwight posted a ridiculous 23/13/3/2/1 on .654/.617 shooting. Those are pretty ridiculous numbers for anybody. Howard started off March just as hot with 19/12/2/1 on .656/.696 shooting these first three games, including back-to-back beastly performances against Miami and Orlando. He is as much of the reason the Rockets have dominated lately as Harden is.

2. Dwight would be 30th or 40th in MVP voting. I dare ANYONE to find me 20 players in the league more deserving of the MVP than Dwight, much less 30 or 40. Not only are his numbers are strong as any big in the league this season outside of Love, Griffin or Davis, but his defense has been stellar. With essentially the same roster as last season with Asik at center (certainly no slouch defensively), Houston went from being 17th in opponents' FG% last season and 16th in defensive efficiency to 5th in opponents' FG% this year and 9th in defensive efficiency.

3. Dwight's WS/48 is only .175, therefore he's not the same player he was in Orlando. Actually, his last season in Orlando, he boasted a .179 WS/48, so he's not that far removed from that last season, and he's CERTAINLY been a huge improvement from his time in LA (.134 WS/48) no matter what stat you use. But the better question is, Why does he have to be the same guy he was in Orlando? In Orlando, he was a No. 1 offensive weapon on a team that was built entirely around him but never had much of a real shot at winning a title. In Houston, he's more of a No. 2 offensive weapon (no shame in that), which lets him shine more on the defensive end without the pressure of being a No. 1 guy. No, he's not the same player he was in Orlando. But he's also logged a LOT of minutes and is in his 10th season in the league, so there's no shame in not being the same guy he was at his peak given his NBA experience.

4. Houston has no chance of reaching the WCF. Really? Anyone who honestly believes this is a ****ing idiot. Not only has Houston won 13 of their last 15 games, but they've beaten San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix twice and Miami over that stretch. Hell, they've beaten a LOT of really good teams this season. Plus, anyone who knows basketball whatsoever would tell you that playoffs in both college and the NBA are about matchups. The Rockets matchup well enough with San Antonio, Golden State, Portland, Phoenix and Dallas, which is why they've beaten those teams in the regular season. But I wouldn't like their chances quite as much against OKC, the Clippers or Memphis. The West is as wide open right now as it's ever been, and there are 4-6 teams who could feasibly win the conference. To say the team with the conference's third best record and the league's best record since Jan. 1 doesn't have a chance isn't just ignorant, it's totally naive and a little insane. Anyone who believes this needs to seriously get over themselves.

I live off hate babe, and in fairness I'm not defending your team, or trying to effect your Rockets in any way. I honestly don't care about the Rockets. I'm a Sonics fan and that will never change.

So if people want to hate your team because a Sonics fan calls them dumb for doubting Dwight. Let em. They're idiots anyways, and there opinions mean nothing because their opinion derive from 100% stats, and ESPN articles.

Chronz
03-07-2014, 03:34 PM
I wonder what Dwights WS/PER/WP look like since the start of the year. Afterall it takes time to get used to a new team

mightybosstone
03-07-2014, 03:48 PM
I wonder what Dwights WS/PER/WP look like since the start of the year. Afterall it takes time to get used to a new team

This is actually a really great point. I wish I could see his advanced numbers since December, without October/November factored in. He's been such a better player since then, and he's really found his role in this offense over that time, aside from a few rough patches in January.

ztilzer31
03-07-2014, 03:55 PM
I wonder what Dwights WS/PER/WP look like since the start of the year. Afterall it takes time to get used to a new team

Does anyone take these stats to be 100% accurate anyways? Wouldn't the talent around him more than likely equal less win shares? I know stats all have their place, but does this really totally transform your opinion of a player? I think it's just one added detail. I've never in my life used WS to determine if a player is good.

ManRam
03-07-2014, 03:59 PM
Dwight is averaging 19/12.5, while playing the lowest minutes per game since his rookie year. He is back to his old self if not better.

He's not better...but he's been great, for sure. In 2010-2011 he was the best he ever was. The year before he had made huge strides too. You could see tangible improvement offensively between seasons for a few off seasons there. I went from a Dwight skeptic, mainly because there was so much potential he hadn't yet realized, even as a Magic fan (got accused of not even being one because I would NEVER dick-ride him :laugh2:). But at a certain point there was very little to complain about, even if I tried. A few minor things, most his refusal to pass/high turnover rate, mainly due to him always bringing the ball down below his shoulders in the post for no reason. But I digress...

His defensive impact this year hasn't quite been the same, if anything just peep the advanced +/- stats. He still isn't quite covering the same amount of ground, though again, it's much improved. He's bounced back fine, and offensively he's starting to use some of the skills he displayed later in his Orlando career that weren't on display last year, but again, it's not quite the same. I've said all along that I think the injury was playing a huge role in his play last year, but he still hasn't quite been the same. Probably a top-10 player yet again if you're comfortable factoring in defensive value, as you should. He's not the Dwight that many felt was a top-3 player in the league, however.


The guy got so much crap, fair or not. No one needs to apologize about anything, including him (maaayyybbbeee to Orlando fans down the road). Maybe I'm biased because he angered the most spoiled fans in the NBA (not an insult...that's a great thing to be), but whatever. He had a bad year and the narratives ran wild...probably got out of control. The scrutiny he received probably did cross the line between meaningful and important to superfluous and gossip. But so be it. He's where he wants to be, he and his team are playing well, and in the end, success seemingly makes people forget about character flaws.

FOBolous
03-07-2014, 04:07 PM
He's not better...but he's been great, for sure. In 2010-2011 he was the best he ever was. The year before he had made huge strides too. You could see tangible improvement offensively between seasons for a few off seasons there. I went from a Dwight skeptic, mainly because there was so much potential he hadn't yet realized, even as a Magic fan (got accused of not even being one because I would NEVER dick-ride him :laugh2:). But at a certain point there was very little to complain about, even if I tried. A few minor things, most his refusal to pass/high turnover rate, mainly due to him always bringing the ball down below his shoulders in the post for no reason. But I digress...

His defensive impact this year hasn't quite been the same, if anything just peep the advanced +/- stats. He still isn't quite covering the same amount of ground, though again, it's much improved. He's bounced back fine, and offensively he's starting to use some of the skills he displayed later in his Orlando career that weren't on display last year, but again, it's not quite the same. I've said all along that I think the injury was playing a huge role in his play last year, but he still hasn't quite been the same. Probably a top-10 player yet again if you're comfortable factoring in defensive value, as you should. He's not the Dwight that many felt was a top-3 player in the league, however.


The guy got so much crap, fair or not. No one needs to apologize about anything, including him (maaayyybbbeee to Orlando fans down the road). Maybe I'm biased because he angered the most spoiled fans in the NBA (not an insult...that's a great thing to be), but whatever. He had a bad year and the narratives ran wild...probably got out of control. The scrutiny he received probably did cross the line between meaningful and important to superfluous and gossip. But so be it. He's where he wants to be, he and his team are playing well, and in the end, success seemingly makes people forget about character flaws.

he didn't even do anything wrong. he left the team as a free agent, which he was perfectly allowed to do...as a free agent. it's not like he pulled a Kobe and refused to play for a team he was drafted by or Granger who refused to play for a team he was traded to.

Chronz
03-07-2014, 04:09 PM
Glossing over some of the splits, might be overrating the impact of that statement, December looks better than January, but his Feb-March splits have been Orlando-esque. I think the recent stretch has spurred this thought more than anything but if we look at his production from December 1 till now, the level of efficiency is exactly the same (110 ORTG) but it has come with an uptick in usage%, which does imply a higher level of play offensively just not as dominant as I thought given the recent stretch (Feb-March : 116 ORTG)


If we look solely at December, February-March and ignore March altogether, his stats are actually very comparable to Orlando, but at that point you're just being selfishly selective . Definitely the best hes played in a few years though. Better than his last Orlando-LA season and continues to improve. Just wish he and Harden stopped with the careless turnovers. Really holding back what should be a better offense. I wonder how much Parsons has helped Dwight in the recent games, seems like those 2 are establishing good chemistry on secondary sets.

Hawkeye15
03-07-2014, 04:21 PM
This is actually a really great point. I wish I could see his advanced numbers since December, without October/November factored in. He's been such a better player since then, and he's really found his role in this offense over that time, aside from a few rough patches in January.

you can always calculate them yourself if you are that interested. I would be interested to see the numbers, but not interested enough to calculate them myself lol

Chronz
03-07-2014, 04:23 PM
Does anyone take these stats to be 100% accurate anyways? Wouldn't the talent around him more than likely equal less win shares? I know stats all have their place, but does this really totally transform your opinion of a player? I think it's just one added detail. I've never in my life used WS to determine if a player is good.

Depends on your familiarity with the numbers and how teammates/role tend to influence them. While no stat should ever be taken at face value, you should never go to the other extreme end of the spectrum to ignore them. The whole point of stats is to provide an air of quantifiable facts, at which point you can either substantiate/delineate the relevance pertaining to the argument. For example, your complaint regarding Win Shares, that can be the case depending on which aspect of WS you are breaking down, with OWS its mostly individual based (boxscore wise). DWS are mostly team oriented, but I find it worthwhile to know if a player is producing on a worthwhile defensive team or not, not to credit him entirely for it, but to know if such an environment was possible with him. Though I admit it can be heavily flawed to the point of irrelevancy. Personally, the only way to find out is to actually pay attention to the numbers.

ManRam
03-07-2014, 04:25 PM
he didn't even do anything wrong. he left the team as a free agent, which he was perfectly allowed to do...as a free agent. it's not like he pulled a Kobe and refused to play for a team he was drafted by or Granger who refused to play for a team he was traded to.

Are we talking LAL or Orlando here? Because I said I agree that he doesn't need to apologize for anything in LAL.

5ass
03-07-2014, 04:42 PM
God.... I hate that OP keeps bringing this ****ing thread up, because it gives so many people who hate the guy a chance to rip on him, regardless of how well he's playing. But since someone did bring it up and the haters are apparently out in full force, I'd like to address a few points I've seen the last couple of pages...

1. The Rockets are only playing well because Harden is having a great month. This is just an opinion of someone who clearly has watched little to no Rockets basketball. The Rockets have been the hottest team in the league since the start of the year, including an 8-3 stretch in February. Over that month, Dwight posted a ridiculous 23/13/3/2/1 on .654/.617 shooting. Those are pretty ridiculous numbers for anybody. Howard started off March just as hot with 19/12/2/1 on .656/.696 shooting these first three games, including back-to-back beastly performances against Miami and Orlando. He is as much of the reason the Rockets have dominated lately as Harden is.

2. Dwight would be 30th or 40th in MVP voting. I dare ANYONE to find me 20 players in the league more deserving of the MVP than Dwight, much less 30 or 40. Not only are his numbers are strong as any big in the league this season outside of Love, Griffin or Davis, but his defense has been stellar. With essentially the same roster as last season with Asik at center (certainly no slouch defensively), Houston went from being 17th in opponents' FG% last season and 16th in defensive efficiency to 5th in opponents' FG% this year and 9th in defensive efficiency.

3. Dwight's WS/48 is only .175, therefore he's not the same player he was in Orlando. Actually, his last season in Orlando, he boasted a .179 WS/48, so he's not that far removed from that last season, and he's CERTAINLY been a huge improvement from his time in LA (.134 WS/48) no matter what stat you use. But the better question is, Why does he have to be the same guy he was in Orlando? In Orlando, he was a No. 1 offensive weapon on a team that was built entirely around him but never had much of a real shot at winning a title. In Houston, he's more of a No. 2 offensive weapon (no shame in that), which lets him shine more on the defensive end without the pressure of being a No. 1 guy. No, he's not the same player he was in Orlando. But he's also logged a LOT of minutes and is in his 10th season in the league, so there's no shame in not being the same guy he was at his peak given his NBA experience.

4. Houston has no chance of reaching the WCF. Really? Anyone who honestly believes this is a ****ing idiot. Not only has Houston won 13 of their last 15 games, but they've beaten San Antonio, Dallas, Phoenix twice and Miami over that stretch. Hell, they've beaten a LOT of really good teams this season. Plus, anyone who knows basketball whatsoever would tell you that playoffs in both college and the NBA are about matchups. The Rockets matchup well enough with San Antonio, Golden State, Portland, Phoenix and Dallas, which is why they've beaten those teams in the regular season. But I wouldn't like their chances quite as much against OKC, the Clippers or Memphis. The West is as wide open right now as it's ever been, and there are 4-6 teams who could feasibly win the conference. To say the team with the conference's third best record and the league's best record since Jan. 1 doesn't have a chance isn't just ignorant, it's totally naive and a little insane. Anyone who believes this needs to seriously get over themselves.

great post. Just something that i feel should be mentioned, is also that howard and the rockets are much better than in the beginning of the season. They're getting it together. So when thinking of win shares you have to take into consideration the adjustment period.

FOBolous
03-07-2014, 04:55 PM
Are we talking LAL or Orlando here? Because I said I agree that he doesn't need to apologize for anything in LAL.

yea Orlando was kind of messed up...he does need to be apologetic for what happened there.

ztilzer31
03-07-2014, 05:42 PM
Are we talking LAL or Orlando here? Because I said I agree that he doesn't need to apologize for anything in LAL.

He does owe an apology to Orlando fans...

Management deserves blame for that one too. They were huge to blame for how that situation transpired, but Dwight still needs to apologize IMO.

Sssmush
03-08-2014, 12:53 AM
2. Dwight would be 30th or 40th in MVP voting. I dare ANYONE to find me 20 players in the league more deserving of the MVP than Dwight, much less 30 or 40. Not only are his numbers are strong as any big in the league this season outside of Love, Griffin or Davis, but his defense has been stellar. With essentially the same roster as last season with Asik at center (certainly no slouch defensively), Houston went from being 17th in opponents' FG% last season and 16th in defensive efficiency to 5th in opponents' FG% this year and 9th in defensive efficiency.



Well, ESPN has Dwight ranked 15th right now ( http://espn.go.com/nba/seasonleaders ), however if I was picking a team I'd choose at least as far down as Noah and Randolph over Dwight.

Also, putting Dwight 30th or 40th on the MVP balloting makes perfect sense, because Dwight's not even close to being the best player on his own team, so how could he possibly be considered in the running for MVP?

Same thing with the "top 3 player in the league" talk we used to hear. In Orlando I guess it made some slight amount of sense because he was there only player so if he played well the perception was the sky's the limit for how high you might rank him. Now we've seen him on the Lakers for a full year as clearly a few notches below Kobe, and probably below Pau as well for most of the year, and now he's on Houston where Harden is clearly far better than Dwight also. So... you figure 30 teams in the NBA, some of those teams have at least two players better than Dwight (KD and Westbrook or Wade and Lebron, etc) so before we get around to picking second-best-players-on-their-own-teams for MVP candidates, we're probably going to go through at least 30 players, even in a year where Kobe isn't in it.

In a normal year you have AT LEAST

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Aldridge
5. Carmelo
6. Parker/Duncan
7. Griffin
8. Kyrie/Lillard
9. Nowitzki
10. + Harden or Kevin Love

and then on top of that everyone is like "why the hell isn't Kobe in the discussion
he's playing better than everyone except Lebron and KD?"

So, yeah, none of my business but Dwight seems to be pretty far out of the conversation, and theoretically it doesn't really make a difference if we say he's at 20th, 30th, 40th. Like I said, it would be cool to see him rise to the occasion and really start playing the true super villain and dominating out there on the court doing things that other players can't, blowing people away with extreme athleticism and skillz.

But a good first step might be for him to win defensive player of the year (DPOY) honors, and also to start in the All Star game again.

slashsnake
03-08-2014, 01:31 AM
But a good first step might be for him to win defensive player of the year (DPOY) honors, and also to start in the All Star game again.

Not sure that the popularity contest should decide if he is back or not. I mean if Kobe can start in it after this year, well he needs to do more than that. If he makes it on the coaches vote, that is what matters. Seriously, if they went back to having a true center as an all star position, he'd start having done absolutely nothing different.

But 2010-11... Sure he was a top 3 or top 5 guy in the NBA. Now, I think that 15-25 range is where he fits.

alexander_37
03-08-2014, 03:18 AM
@dmorey
No question @DwightHoward is #1 center in the NBA this year on winning team. #1 in PER 22.1, #1 in FG% 59% (>20% usg), #3 in rebounding, etc
6:54 PM - 7 Mar 2014

@dmorey 7h
With Dwight, Rockets have generated 6+ rim points per game more than opponents, 2nd only to Miami. 6+ point rim edge worth about 24 wins

If you are going to argue with Morey you may as well close your account now.

John Walls Era
03-08-2014, 03:29 AM
so we will bump this thread after every good/bad game?

5ass
03-08-2014, 03:35 AM
@dmorey
No question @DwightHoward is #1 center in the NBA this year on winning team. #1 in PER 22.1, #1 in FG% 59% (>20% usg), #3 in rebounding, etc
6:54 PM - 7 Mar 2014

@dmorey 7h
With Dwight, Rockets have generated 6+ rim points per game more than opponents, 2nd only to Miami. 6+ point rim edge worth about 24 wins

If you are going to argue with Morey you may as well close your account now.

Where were they last year in rim points? Do you know?

alexander_37
03-08-2014, 03:46 AM
Where were they last year in rim points? Do you know?

No idea.

FOBolous
03-09-2014, 02:21 AM
Remember back when Lakers fans were trashing Houston saying Houston is a small market and Dwight won't get any exposure here?

Rndy
03-09-2014, 05:31 AM
Remember back when Lakers fans were trashing Houston saying Houston is a small market and Dwight won't get any exposure here?

:laugh: really? Have they ever heard of Yao Ming?

FOBolous
03-09-2014, 01:12 PM
:laugh: really? Have they ever heard of Yao Ming?

apparently not :laugh2: them thinking that was an attempt on their need to come to terms with the fact that not all marquee stars want to play for the Lakers. i think this is the first time a marquee star have left their team on that player's own accord. so instead of accepting the situation for what it is, they try to come up with reasons as to why this happened and dwight supposedly not being able to "handle the spotlight" of LA and "running away" to a "small market" like Houston "like a coward" is one of those supposed reasons.

ManRam
03-09-2014, 01:15 PM
so we will bump this thread after every good/bad game?

Haven't heard much anti-Dwight stuff from you lately. Must be burning your soul!

ztilzer31
03-09-2014, 02:09 PM
so we will bump this thread after every good/bad game?

Oh so when he was on the Lakers it was okay to make a new thread for every dumb rumor that Lakers fans could get their hands on? In hope to make people think that his career is over.

But how dare I bump a thread that proves you are incredibly stupid and biased and wrong?

Bet if I made a new thread called "Dwight unhappy in Houston" and put up some BS articles you would drool all over it.