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View Full Version : How Not to Run Up a Score in Basketball



utahjazzno12fan
11-05-2013, 10:56 PM
OK. I am not sure if this is getting posted in the right spot or not, so if not, someone can feel free to move it to another section. I really can't figure out where to put it.


Anyways, I am coaching a girl's middle school age basketball team. I would say we are a very good team. We are a very small, rural school, but we have played some very large schools. For example, we have about 45 total students in the 8th grade which gives you an idea.


Well we have played several teams about the same size as us and some quite a bit larger than us.


We beat a school a little larger than us 50-3. We beat a school about the same size as us 71-6. We then played a school that is more than 3 times our size by 15. We beat another school that is 3 times our size by 26. We then played a school that is around 14 times our size by 70. Then we beat a team that is a bit smaller than us by 69. We even played a school the same size as us, playing no starters (and 3 of them being 5th graders), and beat them by 20.


I worked on conditioning and defense. Our team is based on a run and gun offense and a trapping full-court and half-court defense. We haven't even had the time to really put in half-court offensive plays.


Being middle school, we play 6 minute quarters. Most games go the same way. I press with my starters for 3 minutes. We are often up 20 after just 3 minutes. We then back into a half-court man for the rest of the 1st quarter. In the 2nd, I put in 3 new guards and leave in my 2 posts. We don't press but still play tough man defense. At halftime, my posts are done for the game and my 3 guard starters combine to play with 2 of my second unit. They play most of the 3rd quarter, but in a 2-3 zone. Then for the 4th quarter, my other guard from my second unit who didn't play the 3rd quarter, enters with my 4 others off the bench to finish the game, in a 2-3 zone.


I have trained my players to run the fast break off of steals, rebounds, and even inbounds passes off made shots.


I don't want to tell my players not to play hard. I work to back them out of the press quickly, but I need them to press because we will potentially play some tough teams at times during the year. I have trained our offense to get down for a quick, good shot.

The thing is, my young players get in against the other team's starters most of the time and drive the score even higher.


I hate the way the scores turn out, but don't feel that I am really running up the score. I won't try to just drive the score higher and higher, but my younger ones go in and have fast break opportunities because the other team just won't get back. I get them to tone it down a bit, but we are that much better than the other teams. Thoughts? Am I in the wrong? Honestly, I feel bad that my starters bust their tails to get better and it causes them to get to play a half or less than half a game.


On a side note, we were up 40 to 0 in the first quarter last game.


Their high school wants them playing a fast tempo game to get ready for what they will do.

bholly
11-05-2013, 11:24 PM
Coaches who have their teams full court press other children who aren't as good are the worst - especially in blowouts. It's supposed to be fun for them, man. It's obviously a fun league rather than something meaningful or super competitive. Getting hit with a full court press when you're that age and can't do anything about it is the ****ing worst and will put kids off playing the game - especially if it's happening from a team who's clearly in a different league to them. Have them run the press a few times a game, but don't do it for minutes at a time.

utahjazzno12fan
11-05-2013, 11:28 PM
Well I look at it as 3 minutes out of a 24 minute game. We have to work on our press because we will play teams that we will be closer to and we can't just not work on our press and then jump back into it when we need to weeks later. And then we don't press at all the rest of the game after we build a small lead.

utahjazzno12fan
11-05-2013, 11:31 PM
I have been on the other end. I coached boys basketball several years before this. We would play one team who would press from the tip to the final buzzer. Score didn't matter. They pressed the whole game. I know I don't always see things the same way, but I always got upset at my team for not beating the press because we worked on it before playing them because we knew they were going to press.

I won't do that. I won't press once we are up a good amount.

Greet
11-05-2013, 11:42 PM
Dude what the **** kind of girls basketball team is scoring 71 ****ing points. You must literally be playing no competition/defense at all. Or you have a team full of Britney Griners

utahjazzno12fan
11-06-2013, 07:57 AM
Scores have been 50-3, 71-6, 52-37, 52-26, 84-14, 81-12, and my younger ones won 44-24. We have modeled our game after VCU's defense and offense. We just have to get out of the FC defense early.

I have several that would surprise me if they are not playing college ball. I will be surprised if a couple aren't starting varsity in high school their freshmen year.

ewing
11-06-2013, 09:45 AM
Call off the full court press

Heatcheck
11-06-2013, 10:06 AM
honestly, if your beating them like that, they'll benefit more from practice than the game itself. so just call off the press and sit your starters, theres not much else you can do after that, like you said, you cant tell them not to play hard.
on the other side, they need to take their whooping like women and keep trucking and get better. if they cant handle it, they don't need to be playing sports.

koreancabbage
11-06-2013, 10:13 AM
screw that. if your girls are beating up the other girls and that's based off their hard work, let them.

seems to me you have a bunch of hard working girls who are just more talented than girls at other schools and they have a great coaching system.

I mean you're older girls are obviously not in the same league and the scores reflect it. i acknowledge you for getting your girls to play hard but let the bench players play more if thats the case lol it will benefit the entire team.

if this was a boys league, it would be no different.

2-ONE-5
11-06-2013, 11:52 AM
not buying this

JasonJohnHorn
11-06-2013, 11:54 AM
If you are beating them by 20+ at half time with 6 minute quarters... just go over to the other coach and ask if they want a few players to swap jerseys... give you ladies a chance to play with theirs and vice versa.

I'm from Windsor (Ontario, Canada) and we played an exhibition game against a team from Detroit (we used to do that once a year) and they ALWAYS killed us. Their point guard was usually taller than our center. At half time, we'd swap jerseys and have fun. Get to play with new players who played at a high level, they got to guard each other, we got to play against our friends/teammates... it made it more fun.

They were also gracious enough to share the ball with us once we swapped some jerseys, so it wasn't like they just went iso with each other.


I found that was a respectful way to not run up the score and keep everybody involved and still playing competitive basketball without 'not trying'.

Not all opposing coaches will go for that, but they should.

warfelg
11-06-2013, 12:23 PM
Though a different sport I coached a lot of indoor lacrosse games where we were up 10-15 goals at half.

We went to jersey swapping, best on best only, and running clocks. The other team would also get a lot of penalties. We would refuse the penalty and take the ball from OB.

So as much as it is about getting your players reps it's about making sure they are getting quality reps, which is sounds like they are not getting.

Hawkize31
11-06-2013, 12:38 PM
A. Don't press if its a blowout.
B. Play everyone on your team, even if they wouldn't have earned a spot otherwise.
C. Try new things when the outcome has long been determined. You mentioned you didn't have time to practice half court offense. Well, try some new plays. Yeah they might not work to perfection at first, but the experience they gain might be better than getting easy fastbreak layups to go up by 57.

valade16
11-06-2013, 01:03 PM
I was on a rec league team that went 1-7 when a buddy of mine convinced me to go to his friends far more competitive team. We started out destroying teams but it's because his friend had us press the entire game. I quit and went back to the terrible team.

I just think press is kind of a dick move TBH. Start the game without the press and if you really need it to win, use it, but don't start the game off with the press. Press shouldn't be used when the games are more fun and recreational than competitive...

valade16
11-06-2013, 01:05 PM
honestly, if your beating them like that, they'll benefit more from practice than the game itself. so just call off the press and sit your starters, theres not much else you can do after that, like you said, you cant tell them not to play hard.
on the other side, they need to take their whooping like women and keep trucking and get better. if they cant handle it, they don't need to be playing sports.

He said he was coaching middle school aged kids and even 5th graders...

If you're that competitive about middle school sports you're a dick. Seriously...

Heatcheck
11-06-2013, 03:10 PM
He said he was coaching middle school aged kids and even 5th graders...

If you're that competitive about middle school sports you're a dick. Seriously...

awww cry me a river, sweetheart. I told him to call off the press and sit his starters, or maybe he should tell them to not try so hard sometimes because the other team blows and they might get sad. stop trying to pussify our youth, that's why theyre all a bunch of self entitled cry babies, because people like you.
guess what? they'll be upset, their parents will tell them its just a game and to practice more and move on, they'll actually be better for it. *** Clown. should they not keep score too? everyones a winner as long as they try.

valade16
11-06-2013, 03:41 PM
awww cry me a river, sweetheart. I told him to call off the press and sit his starters, or maybe he should tell them to not try so hard sometimes because the other team blows and they might get sad. stop trying to pussify our youth, that's why theyre all a bunch of self entitled cry babies, because people like you.
guess what? they'll be upset, their parents will tell them its just a game and to practice more and move on, they'll actually be better for it. *** Clown. should they not keep score too? everyones a winner as long as they try.

I bet you're the dad that yells at his grade school son because he misses a basket. Yeah, you're toughening up our kids all right. Actually what you're doing is instilling our youth with psychological problems. So congrats on that.

It's F'ing middle school girls basketball. They should always try hard, try their best, but if your team is clearly superior to the other (as it sounds like his is) you shouldn't be pressing. That's a punk move.

If your mantra is "just win baby" then put on some big boy pants, get off this forum, and go get paid to win. If you can't because you're not good enough, don't take your inadequacies out on future generations...

Sly Guy
11-06-2013, 06:32 PM
Coaches who have their teams full court press other children who aren't as good are the worst - especially in blowouts. It's supposed to be fun for them, man. It's obviously a fun league rather than something meaningful or super competitive. Getting hit with a full court press when you're that age and can't do anything about it is the ****ing worst and will put kids off playing the game - especially if it's happening from a team who's clearly in a different league to them. Have them run the press a few times a game, but don't do it for minutes at a time.

yeah, I'd say this. Use the press as your fail safe if you've got a tight game. And the fact you keep switching up your defenses probably doesn't help either as the other team may not know how to react. From the sounds of it, your girls are just simply better, plays or not, they'll probably end up winning, so if you don't want to blow out the other team, then don't add to it by out coaching the other guy too.

It's great you're teaching them zones, fast break bball, and presses and all, but you can teach those in practice and chances are, playing against their teammates will probably be better experience considering the talent level on your roster seems to far exceed your opponents. Or maybe you could limit your use of a press or a zone defense to a single quarter of the game, secure your big lead, then basically stop coaching and let the game clock run down.

imagesrdecievin
11-06-2013, 07:51 PM
Just that you are considering the other team's psyche is enough for me to know that you are doing the right thing.

You have a commitment to honor to your own girls to put them in a position to be successful now and going forward. You can't just throw everything out of the window to spare the feelings of the other teams. Your girls need to ready themselves for more difficult games as well their potential future careers.

The last thing I would do is tell them to not try hard. That imo is a bigger disrespect to competition. The only thing I'd be hyper-sensitive about is your girl's level of enthusiasm and/or celebrations. It's one thing to blow a team out - it's another to showboat and rub it into the other team's face.

sunsfan88
11-06-2013, 09:31 PM
You beat a team by 70, 69, 70, 36, 45 all in one season?

Did you win coach of the year?

utahjazzno12fan
11-06-2013, 10:30 PM
I inherited a good team. Since we can't press up a lot, I always try to just press a couple of minutes to start the game. I am not going to press when up big, so we do it the first couple of minutes.

I have 14 players. I run a normal 8 girl rotation, but end up going deep into my bench. Last game I had 13 players play (1 has been out with an injury for a while). I started my 5, subbed in my next 3 for the 2nd quarter. I sat my two who played the whole first half and gave two of my subs playing time with the other 3 starters until 2 minutes left in the third. Then I cleared my bench. Each player played in two quarters, except one who played in 3 all off the bench.

I guess the problem is, we are so dominant against some teams, it looks bad because the final score looks bad. But I don't know what else to do except not press (but we need to work it a few minutes). We slow things down in the half court, but they will not do that much at their high school. They play similar to what we play.

So I am juggling a few things. Work on what they will run in high school, but don't do it too much because we score a lot and quickly. Work on the things we need to work on, but don't do it too much because it creates point opportunities and is tough defense.

I do sub, and don't give the starters even the majority of playing time in the games at times. These are official games and not really able to switch up teams, which really wouldn't help in getting them ready for the next level, which is what I focus on. I want them to be ready for high school, which will help them get ready for college ball.

So I press 2-3 minutes most of the time and bench my starters half the game.

We press two ways. We run a 1-2-1-1 trapping press and a man trapping press. We always drop back man in half court when a team breaks the press. High schools run man, and I need them getting better at it so they are ready when they get there. I drop back into a zone just to give the other team more opportunities in the 2nd half.

tmacsc2
11-06-2013, 11:11 PM
While they are in middle school, people don't realize that good districts usually have a whole coaching regime from high school down the pee wees in some sports. They teach these kids the techniques they will need to learn if they want to be on the varsity squad when they are older. Parents try getting their kids into these districts for that reason. And if they play outta district than that's the schools scheduling problem.

A bunch of guys on here sound like some huge softies saying the press is a dick move in rec ball or middle school ball. If you can't beat the press or teach your team to beat the press (it's all about passing that's it really) then you need to stop taking the schools money for not doing your job or if you are volunteering, get a little more serious about it or let someone else step in.

Don't just keep letting yourself/team down by saying aw oh well they are middle schoolers or it's just rec ball. That's a quitters mentality and our future has a lot of that. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I will try my hardest to not fail my kid in the areas I quit/failed.

Valade while I agree to an extent with you there is only a certain point where you can keep saying "they are only middle schoolers, nothing we can do about that" there comes a time when people have to start coaching better and not just begging to the other coach to stop pressing for an example.

JerseyPalahniuk
11-07-2013, 12:31 AM
Eerily reminds of this Malcolm Gladwell article:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_gladwell

except you're Goliath.. who also does a press.

cambellronald7
11-07-2013, 02:00 AM
Keep your eyes on the ball for the entire game.Watch for the placement of a shooter's feet,Mark down 2 points for a basket when the basketball falls through the appropriate hoop for the team advancing the basketball.Check the time. Mark down 3 points for the appropriate team for any shot made from the floor with the player located outside of the 3-point line when the shot takes place,Add 1 point to the score for each free throw made by a player.

tmacsc2
11-07-2013, 02:24 AM
^
http://youtu.be/qORouZ-qOgg

True Sports Fan
11-07-2013, 02:32 AM
not buying this

Yeah. No way this is legit

John Walls Era
11-07-2013, 06:34 AM
IDC if this is legit or not. Honestly its a waste of his time if hes not serious.

You might wanna call off the press... don't be that guy who presses when their team is up 50 points. You're not getting ready for anyone by pressing. It would be like a boxer punching a baby and telling everyone hes getting ready for his next match; stop kidding yourself.

utahjazzno12fan
11-07-2013, 07:07 AM
It's legit and as I said, we don't press once we get up big.