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View Full Version : Should the 76ers Reconsider Tanking?



JasonJohnHorn
11-03-2013, 09:31 AM
With all the talk/rumours of 'tanking', it seems the 76ers are failures at failing. They have started the season 3-0 and are one of only 3 teams with 3 wins as 0 losses, and are are only one of 5 teams who haven't lost yet. It is obviously early in the season and they could easily go on a 10-game losing streak starting with their next game, but it seems like they actually have some talent.

MCW has demonstrate some VERY real potential in his first three games (though his second game demonstrated some potential inconsistencies), Hawes is rebounding like a stud, Turner is scoring high with a solid FG% and great all-around game, and Thad-Young is a solid young player who is still developing.

When you consider the fact that the 76ers have all this talent, AND Nerlens Noel, the consensus first pick of this year's draft (who wasn't selected, not because of his lack of talent, but because of concerns for his kness/injuries), it seems that they 76ers actuall have a VERY good starting line-up. And with guys like Jason Richardson and Kwame Brown coming off the bench (when they return from injury), it seems like the 76ers are in a position to do some good if they can pick up a couple of solid free agents this year and get a contributor in the draft.

If Nerlens is healthy and as good as most expect him to be, he and MCW will be an AMAZING combination of youth and talent to build around, and having Tunrer, Hawes and Young aroudn those guys?

So, what do you think? Does Philly need to tank? Or go full throttle?

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 09:50 AM
Its us and the media that has said they are tanking...Brent Brown, Sam Hinkie, the Sixers ownership, and Evan Turner all said in the offseason they weren't tanking.

They all said you need to get really bad to get good but what if we are wrong and that was never the intention.

Still its only 3 games and we can still win only 10 or so.

As a Sixers fan I want to see them in a month or so from now. If they aren't actually terrible and want to tank, trade Turner, Young, and Hawes today.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 09:50 AM
To answer your last question I always say try and win.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 09:57 AM
Sorry for the triple post here but I want to add something I added in another topic.

Brent Brown worked with the young guys in San Antonio (at least from what was said when he was hired)....maybe he knows how to get young guys to play, maybe some of Pops is in him....as a Sixers fan that is my hope.

We also don't know how good Moultrie (who I liked a lot more than many people) and Noels....and with $40 mil in cap space next offseason and possibly the 5th overall from the Pelicans (fish everywhere be midly aware) in the Jrue holiday deal.....we could be in real good shape.

I suspect this is just a good start but when you win 3 games in a row late it says something about your team.

waveycrockett
11-03-2013, 10:09 AM
The players aren't out there trying to miss shots on purpose. The have a group of young guys with talent. MCW looks like he will run away with the ROY and Thad Young has always been one of the most underrated in the NBA. Put them in a great system and you have a recipe for success but its not going to last mainly because Spencer Hawes is going to come back down to earth soon. He is nowhere near this good. Him and Evan Turner have played well above their heads. If that starting group stays healthy they will be much better than people expect. Possibly compete for an 8 seed.

bholly
11-03-2013, 10:55 AM
I'm not sure I know what you mean. There was never a suggestion that the players and coach wouldn't try to win every game. The 'tanking' they were doing was giving up win-now assets (eg Jrue and Bynum) in order to load up on build-for-the-future assets (picks, cap room). They've already done that. Are you asking whether they should give up on that plan and try to sign or to trade for some other guys to help them win now?


Brent Brown


Brent Brown

Brett Brown.

BKLYNpigeon
11-03-2013, 10:58 AM
This is a stupid thread. teams will play put the season. with 15 games left teams will figure out where they are positioned in the Draft and then decided to tank or not.


just watch the games and enjoy.

2-ONE-5
11-03-2013, 10:59 AM
dont be fooled by the double doubles from Hawes he still isnt aggressive enough and most of the boards he gets are ones that just fall to him and are uncontested.

mightybosstone
11-03-2013, 11:05 AM
First off, I think people need to stop thinking about "tanking" as something the coaches or players are trying to do, but rather something that just happens when the front office deals away most of their assets and are left with a team that should lose on paper. No team tries to tank.

Anyways, I think Philly has been a great story early in the season. I figured we'd get better performances out of Turner and Young, but MCW has just been beyond what I think anyone expected him to be. But let's not forget that it's insanely early in the season and no one has had a chance to see this guy play an NBA team yet. I think young NBA players are a lot like rookie QBs sometimes. They come into the league and dominant until teams get some film on them and then they slow down considerably for a while until they learn to adapt to defenses. I think we'll see something similar from MCW as the season progresses, and there will be a lot more 10/5/5 games than 20/10/6 games.

It's obvious that people didn't give this squad enough credit going into the season, but I also think it's silly to overreact after three games. My guess would still be that this team finishes in the bottom 10 of the league. Without Noel, that front court defense is pretty bad, and I just can't see MCW, Young and Turner playing at this pace for the entire season. But I also think that most people's predictions (including my own) of 10-15 wins for this team was drastically off. They'll probably win 25-30 games at least, and they'll be one of those young, mediocre teams that no one wants to play late in the season.

OKC
11-03-2013, 11:06 AM
tank. youre not going past the first round even if you make the playoffs with this team,
but, imagine a core of MCW, Wiggins and Noel. with pieces like Turner, Thad Young, Hawes, pelicans pick and a **** ton of cap space, just imagine what you can do. this could be a championship contender in a few years.
are you realy going to throw that away because you can possibly make the playoff in this season?

setman2000
11-03-2013, 11:17 AM
Name one person in the Sixers organization that ever talked about tanking. After you can't do that, delete this stupid thread.

Heediot
11-03-2013, 11:21 AM
Turner is legit, with the new responsibilities he has and the ability to create he's going to be good.

THE MTL
11-03-2013, 11:22 AM
The concept of tanking is getting rid of old veteran players for young unproven with hopes of some of them blossoming and possibly getting a high draft pick. Philly has done what is necessary and gotten rid of the old guys......if MCW and Evan Turner are blossoming thats what u want from ur young guys.

mightybosstone
11-03-2013, 11:36 AM
The concept of tanking is getting rid of old veteran players for young unproven with hopes of some of them blossoming and possibly getting a high draft pick. Philly has done what is necessary and gotten rid of the old guys......if MCW and Evan Turner are blossoming thats what u want from ur young guys.

This is true, but Sam Hinkie has to think about the future of this team and whether Turner is in that future. I think there's a very good chance, especially if they keep winning games, that Hinkie will seriously start to shop Turner, Thad and maybe Hawes before the trade deadline. The worst thing you can do as a franchise is be a mediocre team that slips into the 7th or 8th seed ever year or loses just enough games to not make the playoffs and get a mediocre draft pick. Right now, that's where the Sixers could be headed this season with this roster.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Turner and Hawes are both free agents after this season, so if the Sixers don't deal them, they'll have some very big decisions to make on those guys in the near future, regardless. I think there's a very good chance that one of them or both of them will be dealt by the deadline.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 11:41 AM
Turner is legit, with the new responsibilities he has and the ability to create he's going to be good.

It took him 3 years in college and this is his 4th so at another level it took him a year longer then in college

WormBurner5
11-03-2013, 11:47 AM
Steve Kerr said it best the other night..give it 25 games, things will start to pan out. Let's wait and see, I'm not convinced after 3 games.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 12:03 PM
Steve Kerr said it best the other night..give it 25 games, things will start to pan out. Let's wait and see, I'm not convinced after 3 games.

Yeah I agree..


There is a saying in baseball, every team is going to win 54 games and lose 54 games, its what you do in those other 54 games that matter.

waveycrockett
11-03-2013, 12:06 PM
No way you can say after 3 games Turner is legit after how bad he's been the past 3 years. Same with Hawes.

Lucky.
11-03-2013, 12:07 PM
Obviously no one said they were going to tank. No one is going to come out and say they're going to tank.

2-ONE-5
11-03-2013, 12:22 PM
No way you can say after 3 games Turner is legit after how bad he's been the past 3 years. Same with Hawes.

i think we can say Turner is much improved. He was never the first option before and never played a solid offensive system before either. Hes done this in bunches since we got him and most of us figured he would be a 20+ scorer this year but the key is how efficient he is doing it and if he can maintain it. Afterall it is a contract year for him

king4day
11-03-2013, 12:23 PM
Clearly the OP's intention was, "should Philly do what's necessary to make a run or nip this before they potentially play for an 8th seed, ruining any shot at a potential cornerstone player this coming draft, by trading guys like Hawes and Turner".

Tanking doesn't have to mean the players are going to lose on purpose. The GM can put a plan to tank in place and later tell the media they are going to play hard to try and win every game.
Philly, Phoenix, Boston, and Utah are trying to grow their young talent right now. They realize this will cause a lot of losses. They are also aware of the benefit should they get a high pick in this coming draft.

waveycrockett
11-03-2013, 12:25 PM
i think we can say Turner is much improved. He was never the first option before and never played a solid offensive system before either. Hes done this in bunches since we got him and most of us figured he would be a 20+ scorer this year but the key is how efficient he is doing it and if he can maintain it. Afterall it is a contract year for him

He may be an 17-20 ppg but alot of that has to do with MCW being a great distributor/facilitator and the fast pace system in place now as it does with his improvements.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm not sure I know what you mean. There was never a suggestion that the players and coach wouldn't try to win every game. The 'tanking' they were doing was giving up win-now assets (eg Jrue and Bynum) in order to load up on build-for-the-future assets (picks, cap room). They've already done that. Are you asking whether they should give up on that plan and try to sign or to trade for some other guys to help them win now?





Brett Brown.


Thanks, didn't realize I did that multiple times

SMH!
11-03-2013, 12:34 PM
He may be an 17-20 ppg but alot of that has to do with MCW being a great distributor/facilitator and the fast pace system in place now as it does with his improvements.

Thats true but MCW hasnt been setting up ET, ET has been doing his own thing

Goose17
11-03-2013, 12:56 PM
Do people really have memories this short? Two words. Orlando 2012.

They're playing well above their ceiling, they'll cool off soon and will start to lose consistently.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 01:04 PM
Do people really have memories this short? Two words. Orlando 2012.

They're playing well above their ceiling, they'll cool off soon and will start to lose consistently.

READ BEFORE YOU RESPOND....most people are saying what your are implying they are not.

Goose17
11-03-2013, 01:15 PM
READ BEFORE YOU RESPOND....most people are saying what your are implying they are not.

I don't care what most people are saying, EVERYONE should be saying that. I read the title and decided the OP was being foolish, couldn't be bothered reading through the thread, still can't. Deal with it.

JasonJohnHorn
11-03-2013, 01:20 PM
Name one person in the Sixers organization that ever talked about tanking. After you can't do that, delete this stupid thread.


Have you ever heard a member of a team's management say: "We are tanking this season"? EVER? No. Does that mean it hasn't happened? No.

Are the 76ers tanking? The player and coach don't seem to be, but the front office may not have the same agenda. Turner himself said that he and the 76ers (meaning the management) are not headed in the same direction, and his rhetoric has implied that he wants to win and he seems to think the front office isn't of the same mind.

The team has cap space, hasn't used it. Trade rumours are going around about Hawes, Young and Turner. They traded their the lone All-star on a lottery team for a player they knew likely wouldn't play this season. They waited months before hiring a coach. It seems like the front office was very much resigned to being in the lottery this year before the first tip-off. Is this conjecture on my part? Yes. Might I be wrong? Yes. Is this 'stupid'? No. This is a reasonable conclusion to draw based on the team's actions.

I'm not judging the approach. It has worked VERY well for other teams. It is part of the game. People don't like to admit it because it compromises the spirit of the game, but at the end of the day, this is how the system is set up and there simply isn't a better way to do it yet.

Your logic that because nobody has said they are tanking means that they aren't tanking is flawed, though I'm not going to resort to name calling or call your post stupid.

Heediot
11-03-2013, 01:23 PM
A healthy bynum on this squad would ne a nice team.

jp611
11-03-2013, 01:23 PM
Sixers won't win 15 games this year

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 01:28 PM
I don't care what most people are saying, EVERYONE should be saying that. I read the title and decided the OP was being foolish, couldn't be bothered reading through the thread, still can't. Deal with it.


So you are admitting you want to be ignorant, reactionary, and attack people that are saying what you do and saying you don't care but yet here you are

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 01:30 PM
.

torocan
11-03-2013, 01:30 PM
I think we need to think about where Sam Hinkie is coming from before we toss around tank vs not tank.

Hinkie came from the Rockets, under Morey, which means he's thinking in terms of risk/reward.

I suspect Hinkie is going along the Morey plan... draft, trade and sign for hidden gems, build value, trade them for picks and sign other high value assets, trade them as needed in an attempt to get all star/superstar caliber players or acquire more assets so they can get better players.

Whether this ends up as an awful season (possible if players don't pan out or are injured), or a decent season (possible if players play above expectation) is completely dependent on the coaching/players and luck.

I suspect Hinkie is looking at this as win/win. If the players are awful, they get a bad season and good shot at the draft. If his players perform above expectation, then he can wheel and deal them for players and picks or keep them if they show high ceilings.

Let's also not forget that not all of his picks depend on his team's performance. He's working to accumulate picks from other teams, so it's quite possible he picks up some very good players while still having the team in the play off race.

Hinkie will do what he does... which is work on finding gems, trading up, and waiting for his opportunities to either snag a superstar/all star potential player in the draft or trade for one.

Sly Guy
11-03-2013, 01:43 PM
don't lose your nerve 3 games into the season. Stick to the plan.

SeoulBeatz
11-03-2013, 02:19 PM
This 3-0 start is a fluke, this team will come back down to Earth shortly and I have no problem with that whatsoever.

If the Sixers somehow make the playoffs, they lose Miami's pick.... that CANNOT happen.

So please stop winning now Sixers and build around MCW and Nerlens with two picks in next years draft and potentially the most cap space in the NBA.

The future is bright for the Sixers, all they gotta do is lose..... it ain't that hard.

2-ONE-5
11-03-2013, 02:45 PM
He may be an 17-20 ppg but alot of that has to do with MCW being a great distributor/facilitator and the fast pace system in place now as it does with his improvements.

ET creates for him self on most of his pts. His handle improved even thought it was already fine, he is in better shape, and his jumper has continued to improve each year. Looks like he finally has that killer instinct mentality going on and it embracing being in the bad guy type role..

2-ONE-5
11-03-2013, 02:46 PM
I don't care what most people are saying, EVERYONE should be saying that. I read the title and decided the OP was being foolish, couldn't be bothered reading through the thread, still can't. Deal with it.

you worried about playing us tomorrow? hahahahahaha

Raps18-19 Champ
11-03-2013, 02:47 PM
Players and coaches always going to trying their best.

mightybosstone
11-03-2013, 02:47 PM
Sixers won't win 15 games this year

They won three already. That seems extremely unlikely at this point.

2-ONE-5
11-03-2013, 02:47 PM
Sixers won't win 15 games this year

yes they will. even if we were 0-3 id still say that. 18-22 wins

mrblisterdundee
11-03-2013, 02:55 PM
It's kind of sad that there's no answer saying "Shoot for the playoffs, because you should always try your best." The 76ers aren't contenders by a long shot, but they should be playing like they are and trying to beat everyone.
Depending on how well point guard Michael Carter-Williams keep playing, the need for Wiggins might be negated. By doing well and saving money, the 76ers might be able to land themselves a really good free agent to go with their obviously solid team.

FOBolous
11-03-2013, 03:04 PM
MCW has had some good games but it's still too early, and the sample size too small, to crown him the "next big thing" and designate him as a franchise saving superstar. remember back when Brandon Jennings had those few crazy games when HE was a rookie?

2-ONE-5
11-03-2013, 03:20 PM
he didnt eat Rose alive or do it against the best two defenses in the league. Even if we were 0-3 it is very impressive to drop 15+ on the heat and bulls

SeoulBeatz
11-03-2013, 03:22 PM
So you are admitting you want to be ignorant, reactionary, and attack people that are saying what you do and saying you don't care but yet here you are

Don't mess with him Phillyfan, dude's internet tough.... deal with it braaaaaaaa.

jimm120
11-03-2013, 03:37 PM
With all the talk/rumours of 'tanking', it seems the 76ers are failures at failing. They have started the season 3-0 and are one of only 3 teams with 3 wins as 0 losses, and are are only one of 5 teams who haven't lost yet. It is obviously early in the season and they could easily go on a 10-game losing streak starting with their next game, but it seems like they actually have some talent.

MCW has demonstrate some VERY real potential in his first three games (though his second game demonstrated some potential inconsistencies), Hawes is rebounding like a stud, Turner is scoring high with a solid FG% and great all-around game, and Thad-Young is a solid young player who is still developing.

When you consider the fact that the 76ers have all this talent, AND Nerlens Noel, the consensus first pick of this year's draft (who wasn't selected, not because of his lack of talent, but because of concerns for his kness/injuries), it seems that they 76ers actuall have a VERY good starting line-up. And with guys like Jason Richardson and Kwame Brown coming off the bench (when they return from injury), it seems like the 76ers are in a position to do some good if they can pick up a couple of solid free agents this year and get a contributor in the draft.

If Nerlens is healthy and as good as most expect him to be, he and MCW will be an AMAZING combination of youth and talent to build around, and having Tunrer, Hawes and Young aroudn those guys?

So, what do you think? Does Philly need to tank? Or go full throttle?

3-0 is not any indication. Wait for end of December before deciding

koreancabbage
11-03-2013, 06:52 PM
He may be an 17-20 ppg but alot of that has to do with MCW being a great distributor/facilitator and the fast pace system in place now as it does with his improvements.

Have you even watched Turner play? he's going right to the basket and getting everything in. he's very much improved and really doesn't play off of MCW's playmaking. Sure, the pace has gone up but so has Turner's game. He's sticking with what he's good at and he is succeeding now. He'll be a good option 3 on a good team. Option 2 if he can show he can be a 23+ppg player consistently

SeoulBeatz
11-03-2013, 08:09 PM
Have you even watched Turner play? he's going right to the basket and getting everything in. he's very much improved and really doesn't play off of MCW's playmaking. Sure, the pace has gone up but so has Turner's game. He's sticking with what he's good at and he is succeeding now. He'll be a good option 3 on a good team. Option 2 if he can show he can be a 23+ppg player consistently

Good analysis.

He is being more assertive this year, he's in shape, and he looks more comfortable than I've ever seen him.

It's well known in the Sixer's fanbase that Ev doesn't have the best attitude but he could flourish on a team where he could be the go-to scorer and have the freedom to work.

Well he's netting 23, 5, 4 this year on pretty good percentages while playing better D (because he lost that beer belly).

It's only 3 games, and we've seen him have hot streaks before, but now he LITERALLY HAS TO BE our #1 scoring option and he's filling that role surprisingly well.

I agree in the assessment that he could be a really solid #3 on a good team.

On a terrible team like the Sixers he's 1)A) along with MCW.

I don't see him resigning with this team so he WILL be somewhere else next year.... any takers?????

warfelg
11-03-2013, 08:16 PM
Seoul, I dont see the problem him not resigning. I see it as he has 30 games left in a Sixers uniform.

SeoulBeatz
11-03-2013, 08:51 PM
Seoul, I dont see the problem him not resigning. I see it as he has 30 games left in a Sixers uniform.

True, far more likely he gets traded.

sunsfan88
11-04-2013, 05:42 AM
They really shouldn't tank. They have a decent team, they can easily try and become a playoff team in the East. It would be good for the experience and development of their young players also.

JNA17
11-04-2013, 07:53 AM
The 76ers GM's answer to the OP's question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGfWrJR5Ck

2-ONE-5
11-04-2013, 10:54 AM
They really shouldn't tank. They have a decent team, they can easily try and become a playoff team in the East. It would be good for the experience and development of their young players also.

no it wouldnt.

bholly
11-04-2013, 11:37 AM
They really shouldn't tank. They have a decent team, they can easily try and become a playoff team in the East. It would be good for the experience and development of their young players also.

If you're saying we shouldn't intentionally lose games, then the answer is 'no ****, nobody ever suggested we should'. If you're saying we shouldn't have blown up the roster for picks and youth and gotten an inexperienced coach - which is what people are talking about when they're saying we tanked - then, um, too late?
What is it you're suggesting we should and shouldn't be doing?

PhillySportFan
11-04-2013, 11:45 AM
You can't predict the future by looking at the past.

sunsfan88
11-05-2013, 05:54 AM
I'm saying you shouldn't blow up and trade the remaining good players on your roster. And the fans themselves should stop rooting for losses.

2-ONE-5
11-05-2013, 11:00 AM
we could say the same about the Suns. Hawes is not good and will be the first one out of here thankfully, Thad is prob next and ET is a toss up at the moment. Hinkie has a plan and is going to stick to it, a few early wins isnt going to change that.

bholly
11-05-2013, 12:15 PM
I'm saying you shouldn't blow up and trade the remaining good players on your roster. And the fans themselves should stop rooting for losses.

Why not? Do you really think Hawes, Thad, ET as a group can make up 3/5ths of a contender's starting lineup? Or even half of their top 6 (if Thad or ET go to the bench?). The answer should be a pretty clear and emphatic 'no', in which case moving some of them in exchange for picks or guys who do have a chance at getting to that level seems like the best thing to do.
What part of that do you disagree with?