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View Full Version : Tougher to Guard - 2006/2007 Kobe or 2012/2013 Lebron or 2009/2010 Wade



JordansBulls
11-01-2013, 04:28 PM
Who was the tougher player to cover one on one (without help from the team)?

DreamShaker
11-01-2013, 05:27 PM
I want to say Kobe, but Lebron is purely unstoppable going to the rim.

Chronz
11-01-2013, 05:30 PM
Questions like this revolve around team needs and roster composition more than anything. Look at Kobe's highest scoring season, look at his dwindling playoff production that same year. Why? Because aside from the game Raja Bell missed, Kobe took less of a scoring burden on and more of a playmaking load. In typical Kobe fashion, the resulting spike in turnover offset the gains in his TS% and he wasn't as productive. Now Im not saying what Kobe did was wrong, Phil came up with the game plan based on the Suns perceived weaknesses and they pushed them to the brink of elimination 1 year, what I am saying is that if you were looking for a player who could handle the 2-way load of creating for himself and others while maintaining that elite efficiency, Bron or Wade are your best bet. Against a soft Suns defense, I have no doubt in my mind that Wade/Bron would have shredded them to a higher degree than Kobe did in that role.

However, if you have ample playmakers and need someone to carry an immense scoring load then Kobe or Wade would be a better options IMO, the problem is we never really saw Kobe in that role as a #1. Only in the sense that the years he was at his apex as a scorer, he didn't really carry that over into the post season, thanks to Phil's gameplan. I really wish he would have just unleashed Kobe those days.

Minimal
11-01-2013, 05:34 PM
You need a team effort to stop LeBron this days. 56% from the floor pretty much says it all.

beliges
11-01-2013, 06:04 PM
In 2006 Kobe was the most unstoppable offensive force to ever play the game. Dude was dropping 50 at will. 81 point game speaks for itself. Lebron's offensive game is not as refined as Kobe's. Kobe's footwork, post game and shooting ability makes him a bigger offensive threat than Lebron.

Supreme LA
11-01-2013, 06:15 PM
Kobe did have 4 straight games going over 50 and I believe over 10 straight 40 pt games. The guy could literally catch fire and outscore a whole team by himself that season. It was something to be behold. The man could really breakout and drop 30 pts in a quarter. Every defense was geared stop Kobe that season as well seeing as how the Laker roster was just crap.

Everybody has an opinion so I can see where an argument can be made for Lebron because he's obviously in his peak now. However, Lebron's game wouldn't seem as great offensively in the half court as it does with the shooters he has now.

Wade on thee other hand, no. The only thing that made Wade tough to guard was his athleticism and the refs. Team defenses can easily plan to defend him.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-02-2013, 05:01 PM
I'm going with Kobe. Scoring machine.

IKnowHoops
11-02-2013, 05:33 PM
In 2006 Kobe was the most unstoppable offensive force to ever play the game. Dude was dropping 50 at will. 81 point game speaks for itself. Lebron's offensive game is not as refined as Kobe's. Kobe's footwork, post game and shooting ability makes him a bigger offensive threat than Lebron.

This is a joke right? just cause he beat in some regular season heads? He's never been close to as nasty in the playoffs, so to me its kind of a farce. Anyone can just keep throwing up shots in meaningless games to get points and set records. See Rob's 71. If you can score at will and win game in the playoffs IE Jordan, then you can be called an unstoppable offensive force. If you score a a bunch during the regular season and can't do that in the playoffs, then your not an unstoppable force.

Guppyfighter
11-02-2013, 05:38 PM
Unstoppable?

Lebron had the most shots near the rim in the entire league and best conversion rate. It has to be him. Not one person can stop him from doing that.

He also only had two games in his entire season where he shot below 50 percent last year.

Teeboy1487
11-02-2013, 05:44 PM
2006 Kobe by far imo. I still feel a zone and backing off Lebron makes him a weaker threat in terms of scoring because he's not the best mid range player and FT shooter. The Spurs showed that in last year's finals. His post game is not dominant either. Lebron is also very methodical in his scoring. He will get hot, but he will start to pass. Kobe in 2006 could run off 60 points in a blink of an eye. Shot selection goes to Lebron, but Kobe was the just so dominant that year as a scorer.

Now as a complete player, it's clear Lebron is far better. He brings more to the table and is dominant in many other facets of the game where Kobe is nonexistent. When it comes to purely scoring and getting off a shot, it's clear Kobe was better imo. Lebron was a slight better slasher, but Kobe was one of the best in his time as well.

As for Wade, he's not even in the discussion.

jerellh528
11-02-2013, 10:20 PM
If you're just talking one on one hardest player to guard? The answer is easily Kobe. Tmac would be a better discussion than those two as far as purely offense goes.

bucketss
11-02-2013, 11:17 PM
2006 Kobe by far imo. I still feel a zone and backing off Lebron makes him a weaker threat in terms of scoring because he's not the best mid range player and FT shooter. The Spurs showed that in last year's finals. His post game is not dominant either. Lebron is also very methodical in his scoring. He will get hot, but he will start to pass. Kobe in 2006 could run off 60 points in a blink of an eye. Shot selection goes to Lebron, but Kobe was the just so dominant that year as a scorer.

Now as a complete player, it's clear Lebron is far better. He brings more to the table and is dominant in many other facets of the game where Kobe is nonexistent. When it comes to purely scoring and getting off a shot, it's clear Kobe was better imo. Lebron was a slight better slasher, but Kobe was one of the best in his time as well.

As for Wade, he's not even in the discussion.

thread says one on one without any help form team mates.

alexander_37
11-02-2013, 11:32 PM
When teams lock in on him Kobe becomes a chucker who gets points off of pure volume. Lebron is much harder to stop.

Playmaking should not count as getting help from teammates because in this group Lebron is in another world when it comes to passing. Guarding the inside pass is part of guarding someone.

Lion
11-02-2013, 11:49 PM
Lebron no doubt, especially with no help.

Pakman
11-03-2013, 02:29 AM
When teams lock in on him Kobe becomes a chucker who gets points off of pure volume. Lebron is much harder to stop.

Playmaking should not count as getting help from teammates because in this group Lebron is in another world when it comes to passing. Guarding the inside pass is part of guarding someone.Not surprising coming from you.

goku
11-03-2013, 03:04 AM
im not a big kobe fan but ill say kobe just cause he could drop 40 or 50 on top one on one defenders back then Bowen, Battier, Artest etc

More-Than-Most
11-03-2013, 03:05 AM
James is not guardable without at least 3 players... So him

More-Than-Most
11-03-2013, 03:06 AM
im not a big kobe fan but ill say kobe just cause he could drop 40 or 50 on top one on one defenders back then Bowen, Battier, Artest etc

James could drop that daily but he rather not shoot 40 times a game honestly.

meloman1592
11-03-2013, 03:31 AM
I hate all 3 so this is completely unbiased. Wade is not even in this convo tbh. Lebron doesn't display the array of moves Kobe did to make defenders look stupid even when they play perfect defense. Soooo...Kobe. It was scary watching him get hot...still is

alexander_37
11-03-2013, 03:36 AM
Not surprising coming from you.

Because I'm some huge Lebron homer?

Ethix11
11-03-2013, 03:42 AM
When Wade wants to he will drive to the hoop on anybody by contorting his body and using his speed. Nowadays he saves that contact style of play for games that really count as it takes a toll on the body but iv'e never seen LeBron do the same at will. LeBron has the size and power but he can't bulldoze players that get in his way so he settles for jumpshots or sets somebody up. Kobe is very skillful but has always been more lean or finesse that he won't play as physical to force his way in the paint unless he has the opening. Mentally, if Wade needed to score, not one player alone could stop him from putting that ball in the basket but he was also forced to because of his lack of help.

beliges
11-03-2013, 03:46 AM
in 2006 kobe was the most unstoppable offensive force to ever play the game. dude was dropping 50 at will. 81 point game speaks for itself. Lebron's offensive game is not as refined as kobe's. Kobe's footwork, post game and shooting ability makes him a bigger offensive threat than lebron.

this is a joke right? Just cause he beat in some regular season heads? He's never been close to as nasty in the playoffs, so to me its kind of a farce. Anyone can just keep throwing up shots in meaningless games to get points and set records. See rob's 71. If you can score at will and win game in the playoffs ie jordan, then you can be called an unstoppable offensive force. If you score a a bunch during the regular season and can't do that in the playoffs, then your not an unstoppable force.

lol.

jerellh528
11-03-2013, 04:25 AM
James is not guardable without at least 3 players... So him

Did you ever watch kobe crap on 5 players at once? outscoring entire teams by himself? 4 game streak of 50+ points? 9 straight 40+ games? 81 points in one game? 62 points in 3 qtrs? He could not being guarded by entire teams, let alone on on one. His offensive array and skills crap on lebron's, lebron isnt really even in the covno. The whole lebron could score 40 any time he wants is pure bologna, career wise lebron averages more shot attempts per game than kobe. I know kobe came off the bench early in his career, but lebron does take a lot of shots, it's not like he's not trying to score a lot because thats stupid, he is the best offensive option on any given team he is on and the goal of the game is to score more than your opponent. If he doesn't try to score that much being the best scorer on his team, wouldn't you agree he is not helping him team as much as he could or should? so no, lebron is not too "unselfish" to score more.

hidalgo
11-03-2013, 05:54 AM
This is a joke right? just cause he beat in some regular season heads? He's never been close to as nasty in the playoffs, so to me its kind of a farce. Anyone can just keep throwing up shots in meaningless games to get points and set records. See Rob's 71. If you can score at will and win game in the playoffs IE Jordan, then you can be called an unstoppable offensive force. If you score a a bunch during the regular season and can't do that in the playoffs, then your not an unstoppable force.exactly, KB was just forcing selfish x-number of points games. doing what David Robinson, David Thompson, & George Gervin all decided to do the last day of the season(& did it no problem like KB). only difference is he's selfish enough to try it way more often. it was nothng special, just extremely selfish padding stats in the reg season. he shot just 45%, not impressive. volume shot jacking. dumb basketball

he only has 1 50 point game in the playoffs, & that was in OT & he only got 50 because he hit a few meaningless 3s in the last minute when there was no chance of coming back(garbage time 50 point game, weak as it gets)

More-Than-Most
11-03-2013, 06:29 AM
Did you ever watch kobe crap on 5 players at once? outscoring entire teams by himself? 4 game streak of 50+ points? 9 straight 40+ games? 81 points in one game? 62 points in 3 qtrs? He could not being guarded by entire teams, let alone on on one. His offensive array and skills crap on lebron's, lebron isnt really even in the covno. The whole lebron could score 40 any time he wants is pure bologna, career wise lebron averages more shot attempts per game than kobe. I know kobe came off the bench early in his career, but lebron does take a lot of shots, it's not like he's not trying to score a lot because thats stupid, he is the best offensive option on any given team he is on and the goal of the game is to score more than your opponent. If he doesn't try to score that much being the best scorer on his team, wouldn't you agree he is not helping him team as much as he could or should? so no, lebron is not too "unselfish" to score more.

Is this forreal? He chooses not to force it when he is double or trip teamed and thus dishes the ball to the open guy and gives his team the easier scoring chance over taking a dumb shot from damn near the 3 point line like Kobe does even if he has 9 guys on him. Kobe is the better shooter but not the better offensive player. Lebron James could easily score 40 or 50 if he forced shots and played dumb offensive inefficient basketball but he is to smart for that to be brutally honest.

FlashBolt
11-03-2013, 10:54 AM
Lmao. LJ can get to the rim against anyone in a 5v5... Imagine if it was 1v1... The defender would get HURT.

bleedprple&gold
11-03-2013, 11:42 AM
Too many threads turn into Kobe vs Lebron already as it is without purposely making one about that. No doubt the fine work of JB back from the dead alive and kickin'.

beliges
11-03-2013, 12:25 PM
Did you ever watch kobe crap on 5 players at once? outscoring entire teams by himself? 4 game streak of 50+ points? 9 straight 40+ games? 81 points in one game? 62 points in 3 qtrs? He could not being guarded by entire teams, let alone on on one. His offensive array and skills crap on lebron's, lebron isnt really even in the covno. The whole lebron could score 40 any time he wants is pure bologna, career wise lebron averages more shot attempts per game than kobe. I know kobe came off the bench early in his career, but lebron does take a lot of shots, it's not like he's not trying to score a lot because thats stupid, he is the best offensive option on any given team he is on and the goal of the game is to score more than your opponent. If he doesn't try to score that much being the best scorer on his team, wouldn't you agree he is not helping him team as much as he could or should? so no, lebron is not too "unselfish" to score more.

Is this forreal? He chooses not to force it when he is double or trip teamed and thus dishes the ball to the open guy and gives his team the easier scoring chance over taking a dumb shot from damn near the 3 point line like Kobe does even if he has 9 guys on him. Kobe is the better shooter but not the better offensive player. Lebron James could easily score 40 or 50 if he forced shots and played dumb offensive inefficient basketball but he is to smart for that to be brutally honest.

LBJ simply doesn't have the offensive arsenal kobe does. He doesnt have the foot work, post up game, jumpshot or fundamentals kobe does. The obvious answer is certainly kobe. With that said, kobe never had the sheer size and athleticism lbj had. They are both very different players.

Minimal
11-03-2013, 12:47 PM
I think last years Durant makes a better argument here and should have been included in the voting.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2013, 01:03 PM
No disrespect intended but I think a better topic would be, would a prime, or on there best day....

ILLUSIONIST^248
11-03-2013, 02:38 PM
Who was the tougher player to cover one on one (without help from the team)?

There is no gaurding a prime Kobe one on one. So him.

Raidaz4Life
11-03-2013, 02:44 PM
I thought JB died?

Raidaz4Life
11-03-2013, 02:47 PM
from a purely offensive standpoint it is Kobe hands down. As a complete player, he is clearly behind Wade and Lebron though.

Almighty Push
11-03-2013, 03:09 PM
One-on-one prime Kobe would be the toughest (trickiest) to guard (along with prime TMac), LeBron excels in a team setting because of his playmaking and court vision.

Supreme LA
11-03-2013, 04:14 PM
Prime Kobe could not be guarded by anyone.

LA_Raiders
11-03-2013, 05:29 PM
Kobe, but LeFlop with his signature move lecrab is really unstoppable.

majmarcus
11-03-2013, 09:46 PM
from a purely offensive standpoint it is Kobe hands down. As a complete player, he is clearly behind Wade and Lebron though.

I actually laughed at this. Wade, a more complete player??? Wade's defense would be so bad at times, he'd get burned by players who werent even in the game.

b@llhog24
11-04-2013, 10:15 AM
Bron Bron.

ztilzer31
11-04-2013, 10:36 AM
from a purely offensive standpoint it is Kobe hands down. As a complete player, he is clearly behind Wade and Lebron though.

From a scoring standpoint you have an argument, but not from an offensive standpoint.... LBJ's a playmaker, and Kobe just isn't.

However if you're just saying in this situation (since we're talking strictly 1v1) then I guess it would work. However Kobe is clearly not as good at getting teammates involved.

ztilzer31
11-04-2013, 10:39 AM
It's hard to say really. It's hard to ignore LBJ's power. Some of me just thinks LBJ would be able to back just about anyone you put against him, or just blow right by them. D Wade is great, and I'm probably undervaluing him, but I'd put him at 3rd. Even though he's extremely underrated for how good he use to be. Guy was great on both ends of the court.

slashsnake
11-04-2013, 11:05 AM
Well to the person who said the Spurs showed Lebron lacks a midrange game, I thought it was game 7 when they backed off and said they'd live or die by his midrange game and he knocked down something around 15 midrange jumpers it seemed. I agree with the statement that his midrange is his weakness, just not that the spurs exposed it.

Anyways you have to go with Kobe. In a one on one situation, you are taking away a big part of Lebron's game (ability to spread the rock around), but going straight into Kobe's strength. Kobe right around that time he really started working that back to the basket stuff, but still had that first step is probably as tough of a matchup from a purely one on one that you can get.

I HATE making a Jordan comparison with Kobe, but that is one area their careers mirrored each other. Both were able to evolve their game from a slasher when they were young, to a mid-range shooter with a go to post move as they got older and couldn't just blow by everyone and throw it down every single posession. That transition area when they could do both pretty well is in my opinion when they were the toughest to defend.

Oefarmy2005
11-04-2013, 11:34 AM
2013-2014 Harden is my pick.

hidalgo
11-04-2013, 11:58 AM
kobe fans don't seem to understand the nba isn't a 1 on 1 tournament. who cares how good kb thinks he is 1 on 1, the nba is 5 on 5, & LeBron is clearly the more unstoppable 5 on 5(nba)player. he avg more pts, ast, rb, blk, stl, better fg%, etc. just better all across the board (I think he'd beat prime kb 1 on 1 too, not that that's even important because the nba is not 1 on 1)

His Airness is the best 1 on 1, & 5 on 5. that's why he's the GOAT

-ah the classic kb comeback in the polls here, never fails, EVER. big lead for LeBron at first(the natural response from people) then the rigged comeback from kb trolls with multiple board names. so beyond obvious

beliges
11-04-2013, 01:09 PM
kobe fans don't seem to understand the nba isn't a 1 on 1 tournament. who cares how good kb thinks he is 1 on 1, the nba is 5 on 5, & LeBron is clearly the more unstoppable 5 on 5(nba)player. he avg more pts, ast, rb, blk, stl,etc. just better all across the board (I think he'd beat prime kb 1 on 1 too, not that that's even important because the nba is not 1 on 1)

His Airness is the best 1 on 1, & 5 on 5. that's why he's the GOAT

-ah the classic kb comeback in the polls here, never fails, EVER. big lead for LeBron at first(the natural response from people) then the rigged comeback from kb trolls with multiple board names. so beyond obvious

That remains to seen still. Lebron with a stacked roster should be able to achieve as much success for his teams Kobe was able to with talented rosters. Right now LBJ is on his way with a couple of titles. Lets see if he can keep it up however similar to the way Kobe did and win a historic amount of titles.

Tony_Starks
11-04-2013, 01:14 PM
Hard for me to say since Kobe was never defended 1 on 1 at that time. It was double teams and sliding zones....

dnl123
11-04-2013, 01:50 PM
kobe fans don't seem to understand the nba isn't a 1 on 1 tournament. who cares how good kb thinks he is 1 on 1, the nba is 5 on 5, & LeBron is clearly the more unstoppable 5 on 5(nba)player. he avg more pts, ast, rb, blk, stl,etc. just better all across the board (I think he'd beat prime kb 1 on 1 too, not that that's even important because the nba is not 1 on 1)

His Airness is the best 1 on 1, & 5 on 5. that's why he's the GOAT



I agree completely with you. Some think that "offensive force" means just having more PPG. To me offensive force means the one who is the best at making his teams offense the best through his play, and the one who is consistently efficient.

TrueFan420
11-04-2013, 01:56 PM
Can we get a mod to add MCW 2013/2014

















J/k

Tony_Starks
11-04-2013, 02:04 PM
The ops question was literally who was the hardest to defend "one on one?" Given that criteria the answer is obviously overwhelmingly Kobe....

Hawkize31
11-04-2013, 02:26 PM
Scoring alone, maybe I'd give the edge to Kobe. Factor in defense and setting your teammates up for success, Lebron is the most unstoppable, not even close. His speed and spacing sets up his teammates like Chalmers, Battier, Allen for wide open threes all the time.

He moves down the court so fast that you have to swarm to him to prevent the easy bucket, but as soon as you do, the trailer has a wide open 3 pointer. Its a very underrated part of the NBA I feel like, because the only stat to measure something like that is assists, and its such a flukey stat.

LordJohn
11-04-2013, 02:54 PM
Lebron's physical strength gives him the edge, imo.



Lebron had the most shots near the rim in the entire league and best conversion rate. It has to be him. Not one person can stop him from doing that.

He also only had two games in his entire season where he shot below 50 percent last year.

^also this. If he was on a worse team his scoring numbers would be crazy right now.

todu82
11-04-2013, 03:29 PM
2012-2013 Lebron

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-10-2013, 11:30 PM
I clicked on lebron but this is Kobe easily was the best player in the league and most dominant

LoveMeOrHateMe
12-10-2013, 11:33 PM
from a purely offensive standpoint it is Kobe hands down. As a complete player, he is clearly behind Wade and Lebron though.

Lol no

Pablonovi
12-10-2013, 11:45 PM
We should remember the OP is one on one not anything else.

A lot of MJ's opinions since he retired have been off the mark; but I think he's right when he says that he thinks he could beat all the current guys except Kobe ("because Kobe stole all my moves".)
He doesn't give compliments much.

So, though LBJ is clearly the much more complete player (if not ever?);
just one-on-one Kobe IS the toughest to stop.

WadeKobe
12-12-2013, 01:01 PM
In 2006 Kobe was the most unstoppable offensive force to ever play the game. Dude was dropping 50 at will. 81 point game speaks for itself. Lebron's offensive game is not as refined as Kobe's. Kobe's footwork, post game and shooting ability makes him a bigger offensive threat than Lebron.

This is hilarious. The Kobe homers are so delusional.

Even if we grant gross points as a helpful indication of "unstoppable", Kobe was nowhere near as unstoppable as KAJ, Michael, or Wilt.

Get a clue, kid.

WadeKobe
12-12-2013, 01:05 PM
Prime Kobe could not be guarded by anyone.

Lol. There were these guys, Pippen, Jordan and... Oh, yea.... Rodman.

They all say hello.

Rodman could guard Jordan in his prime. You don't think he could handle Kobe!?!? Lol

Pablonovi
12-12-2013, 05:20 PM
I think a better question and attitude towards it would be:
Isn't it totally awesome that these three guys could be so offensively powerful that we'd even want to have a discussion comparing them.

For me, I don't have a definitive position; they were/are all monsters; and some of the time were literally unstoppable (Rodman notwithstanding; he didn't stop every top offensive star every single game.)

WadeKobe
12-12-2013, 11:50 PM
I think a better question and attitude towards it would be:
Isn't it totally awesome that these three guys could be so offensively powerful that we'd even want to have a discussion comparing them.

For me, I don't have a definitive position; they were/are all monsters; and some of the time were literally unstoppable (Rodman notwithstanding; he didn't stop every top offensive star every single game.)

I totally agree, and I certainly had no intention of suggesting he did. Only combatting the idea that he couldn't stop Kobe, period.

Pierre The Poet
12-13-2013, 01:59 AM
They're both great...I don't see how this always turns into one is great and the other sucks and only won because of excuse#1, 2, and 3.

I hate measuring players with numbers. Kobe has 5 rings, Lebron has 2. That doesn't necessarily mean that Kobe is better, their circumstances were different. Kobe played on some championship caliber teams. Lebron has 4 MVPS, Kobe has 1. That doesn't mean Lebron is better either. During Kobe's best years, his teams were absolute trash and we all know that MVP goes to the best player on the best team. Sometimes, things just have to line up correctly. But either way, they're both great and I think that they would've been perfect teammates for each other.

Pablonovi
12-14-2013, 12:54 AM
I totally agree, and I certainly had no intention of suggesting he did. Only combatting the idea that he couldn't stop Kobe, period.

Great. :clap::cheers::clap:
Rodman WAS something special. Few played Peak Shaq as tough as he did (and he was tiny compared to Shaq). Rodman's tenacity was phenomenal. He was just remarkable; crazy but remarkable.

Pablonovi
12-14-2013, 01:01 AM
They're both great...I don't see how this always turns into one is great and the other sucks and only won because of excuse#1, 2, and 3.

I hate measuring players with numbers. Kobe has 5 rings, Lebron has 2. That doesn't necessarily mean that Kobe is better, their circumstances were different. Kobe played on some championship caliber teams. Lebron has 4 MVPS, Kobe has 1. That doesn't mean Lebron is better either. During Kobe's best years, his teams were absolute trash and we all know that MVP goes to the best player on the best team. Sometimes, things just have to line up correctly. But either way, they're both great and I think that they would've been perfect teammates for each other.

Hey PTP,
Thinking about Lebron-Kobe just makes me drool. I have often thought about what Kobe would have accomplished with a career alongside Magic. Kobe would have averaged 35-40 and still had energy to stay a top Defender.

But with LeBron ... even better. Why? Though I have Magic as my GOAT All-Time #2; LeBron is an even better player and teammate. Magic only beats him in passing, accolades and years-played; LeBron's got Magic in everything else; and he should pass him in years; and may well catch and pass him in all hardware categories.

LeBron-Kobe would have won multiple-Chips. LeBron would make Kobe look the best (both individually AND as a TEAMmate). Kobe would allow LeBron to average a triple double. Great for both of them and their team.

And still could; if "impossibly" they joined forces (next year?).