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Mile High Champ
11-01-2013, 12:11 PM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 6th year I have done this on PSD and it always brings some great discussion and debate. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron James and the Miami Heat are back to back NBA champions after an exciting 7 game series win over the Spurs. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 5 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.


In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Tony Parkerl goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Dwyane Wade goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as Kevin Love goes off the board, I will add other PF's.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the list. One of the goals of these polls is to maintain some continuity between the polls we completed to the final player poll we are currently voting.

2013 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Chris Paul
4) Tim Duncan
5) James Harden
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Tony Parker
9) Dwight Howard
10) Russell Westbrook
11) Stephen Curry
12) Dwyane Wade
13) Marc Gasol
14)
15)


2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8) Derrick Rose
9) Dirk Nowitzki
10) Russell Westbrook
11) Carmelo Anthony
12) Deron Williams
13) Andrew Bynum
14) Rajon Rondo
15) Tony Parker & Kevin Garnett

2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Mile High Champ
11-01-2013, 01:53 PM
Cast those votes guys! We are almost done with the polls.

Paul George here for me.

Minimal
11-01-2013, 02:03 PM
Kevin Love, because all other suck

valade16
11-01-2013, 02:13 PM
First off, how can a guy like LaMarcus Aldridge not even be on the ballot when guys like Joakim Noah and Andre Iguodala are?

Second, It's Love.

NYKnickFanatic
11-01-2013, 02:19 PM
First off, how can a guy like LaMarcus Aldridge not even be on the ballot when guys like Joakim Noah and Andre Iguodala are?

Second, It's Love.

Because of the new flawed voting system.


In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Tony Parkerl goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Dwyane Wade goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as Kevin Love goes off the board, I will add other PF's.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the list. One of the goals of these polls is to maintain some continuity between the polls we completed to the final player poll we are currently voting.

Bruno
11-01-2013, 03:41 PM
tough. love irving and george are all great.

gbrl
11-01-2013, 03:56 PM
First off, how can a guy like LaMarcus Aldridge not even be on the ballot when guys like Joakim Noah and Andre Iguodala are?

Second, It's Love.

its for continuity, love has to come off before aldridge and aldridge can still come off before those two

Swashcuff
11-01-2013, 05:58 PM
If you don't like the system GTFO. It makes COMPLETE sense if you don't understand that then you shouldn't be taking part in these polls in the first place.

With that said I went with Love.

Minimal
11-01-2013, 06:11 PM
If you don't like the system GTFO. It makes COMPLETE sense if you don't understand that then you shouldn't be taking part in these polls in the first place.

With that said I went with Love.
Yeah it makes perfect sense. Thats why according to this system Chris Bosh won't even make top 50 in this list.

Swashcuff
11-01-2013, 08:02 PM
Yeah it makes perfect sense. Thats why according to this system Chris Bosh won't even make top 50 in this list.

This clearly shows that you do NOT understand the system. Why are you even bothering to make an attempt to criticize it. What if after Love wins the next 8 spots go to Cs. Obviously Bosh would make the top 25.

Clearly too many people here don't understand a basic concept such as this. Its as basic as it can possibly get but even the most basic things are too advanced for some people.

jimm120
11-01-2013, 08:36 PM
Honestly...it makes sense but it doesn't.

Its like Republicans and Democrats...both wanting to do something but doing it different. This system is like republicans lol.

Joking aside, I feel the "top PG/SF/ETC" lists are different because we're talking about the skillsets for those certain positions. Here, we're just voting for the TOP players FOR A TEAM.

Paul might be the top PG but I might consider someone else more important for a team (hence a higher ranking in the top players ranking).


That's my thinking.

Allphakenny1
11-01-2013, 10:24 PM
The system is a good system, continuity is important otherwise the position polls are a waste of time. I think it is a cop-out to say you like a player at a certain position better than another, but like the other player better overall. Vote for the better player overall who plays that position, period. The problem with these polls is that different people vote based on different criteria. Some, like me, vote on who the better player was last year alone because this poll is held year to year. Some vote based on who is the better player right now if everyone were healthy. Others clearly vote based on potential even though that is what we are not supposed to do. Finally, some people are just homers. The system works out just fine, I just wish we could all get on the same page.

Minimal
11-02-2013, 07:41 AM
This clearly shows that you do NOT understand the system. Why are you even bothering to make an attempt to criticize it. What if after Love wins the next 8 spots go to Cs. Obviously Bosh would make the top 25.

Clearly too many people here don't understand a basic concept such as this. Its as basic as it can possibly get but even the most basic things are too advanced for some people.
I completely understand the system, you don't have to explain me. He wont make top25, because there so many garbage players in the C position coming before him, which are apparently better than him at C position according to PSD, but are nowhere better than him as all around players.

Swashcuff
11-02-2013, 08:48 AM
I completely understand the system, you don't have to explain me. He wont make top25, because there so many garbage players in the C position coming before him, which are apparently better than him at C position according to PSD, but are nowhere better than him as all around players.

Do I think as an all round player Chris Bosh is better than where PSD ranked him? Sure. But tbh if he can't be top 5 at his own position then how on earth can we then rationalize him being a top 20 or so player? Why on earth should MHC spend 2 and a half months doing positional ranks if his best players ranks are messed up by homers and fanboys who vote a player just because he's on the poll and not because they actually think he deserves to go there.

You just said he wont make the top 50 now you're switching to top 25. So far we've seen 4 point guards go in the top 13 and no PFs. When Love goes off the board however coming in behind him are Blake, Dirk, LMA and KG all players likely to go top 25. The system makes complete sense when you take into consideration that this is a PSD poll voted on by PSDers.

Minimal
11-02-2013, 10:57 AM
Do I think as an all round player Chris Bosh is better than where PSD ranked him? Sure. But tbh if he can't be top 5 at his own position then how on earth can we then rationalize him being a top 20 or so player? Why on earth should MHC spend 2 and a half months doing positional ranks if his best players ranks are messed up by homers and fanboys who vote a player just because he's on the poll and not because they actually think he deserves to go there.

You just said he wont make the top 50 now you're switching to top 25. So far we've seen 4 point guards go in the top 13 and no PFs. When Love goes off the board however coming in behind him are Blake, Dirk, LMA and KG all players likely to go top 25. The system makes complete sense when you take into consideration that this is a PSD poll voted on by PSDers.
I said top 25, because you said he might make top25 if all centers make the list all in a row, that won't happen. He was ranked 9th as a center, so that will make him approx 45-50 player, maybe higher maybe lower, it depends how the voting goes. He is not that great of a center, because his game is not that of a centers, he doesn't block shots a lot, he spreads the floor, that's why he doesn't rebound much, he works in a team system and does a pretty decent job, but the guys here vote for a "Center", and that voting affects the overall player voting. I bet he would have been ranked much higher if he was set as PF in PSD rankings. What if Dirk plays center? Would he be a great center? Doubt it. They are power forwards inside, center is just a position Bosh was forced to play in. Big props to MHC for what he has done with all this player voting threads, but this new system is just bad. I think the best way for the voting would be to take 10-15 players and vote from them, obviously we will need a lot more people to vote and more time to spend on each voting to make a reasonable list.

Maybe I'm complaining too much, but I don't like this years voting at all. Guys on here select players by unknown criterias, a lot of homers, people who don't know basketball. I mean how the f James Harden became a top 5 player? Started scoring 25 PPG on 43% shooting? Choking in playoffs each and every year?

Swashcuff
11-02-2013, 11:11 AM
I said top 25, because you said he might make top25 if all centers make the list all in a row, that won't happen. He was ranked 9th as a center, so that will make him approx 45-50 player, maybe higher maybe lower, it depends how the voting goes. He is not that great of a center, because his game is not that of a centers, he doesn't block shots a lot, he spreads the floor, that's why he doesn't rebound much, he works in a team system and does a pretty decent job, but the guys here vote for a "Center", and that voting affects the overall player voting. I bet he would have been ranked much higher if he was set as PF in PSD rankings.

Firstly


Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER.

He says best player, not best passing PG, not best defensive C not best shooting SG best player at each respective position. I bet if Bosh wasn't as hated as he is he would have probably had gone higher on the PSD ranks but like I said before it was PSD who voted this not some other site, the players on this list are a direct representation of what PSD deems the best player at respective positions.

Secondly

That is the position in which Chris Bosh played last season. He defending opposing Cs and was defended by opposing Cs so why not rank him with his peers? Is his offensive skill set not that of a PF? Yes it is would he have ranked higher at the PF? Probably but the fact of the matter is that last season he wasn't a PF so doesn't it make complete sense to rank him among his peers?


What if Dirk plays center? Would he be a great center? Doubt it.

Today's Dirk? Probably not. Prime Dirk hell yea he'd be a great player at the C position. Bargs played the C, PF and SF at different points in his career and despite that didn't make him any less of a player. Brook Lopez plays the C is the same height as Dirk but prime Dirk was a better rebounder, scorer and as equal or even in some ways a better defensive player. Did would be top 3 at C and or PF in his prime years.


They are power forwards inside, center is just a position Bosh was forced to play in. Big props to MHC for what he has done with all this player voting threads, but this new system is just bad. I think the best way for the voting would be to take 10-15 players and vote from them, obviously we will need a lot more people to vote and more time to spend on each voting to make a reasonable list.

That system would simply defeat the purpose of doing the previous threads, it also shows the loops holes and the lack of transparency in the voting. MHC had such a system in place previously and even though Dwyane Wade was voted as the number 1 SG in the league by PSD when it came to top 10 ranks at all positions Kobe was voted as a better player, now tell me how is that possible. How is Wade a better player than Kobe at their respective positions but when you vote league wide Kobe was voted ahead of Wade. it makes absolutely no sense. This is the best system for these ranks. The system isn't the problem, those who are/aren't voting on it are.

mightybosstone
11-02-2013, 11:30 AM
Oh my God.... I am so sick of people complaining about the system every year. It was the same way last year and it will be the same way next year. Get the **** over it. And Bosh would likely crack the top 30-35 if the voting went that far down (but it won't). I can't recall all the centers ahead of Bosh, but center is a far deeper position than people give it credit for. Howard, Gasol, Duncan, Horford, Noah, Hibbert, Lopez, etc. are all top 25 guys.

And if I hear one more person complain about Harden as a top 5 guy, I'm going to lose my ****. If you didn't want him in the top 5, you should have voted against him. But this argument has come up like 10 times and there was even a huge thread discussing the topic. Harden is an arguably top 5 guy who likely earned his spot because the top of the talent pool isn't nearly as clear as it was 3-4 years ago. Aging players aren't what they used to be and there are a ton of young guys on the rise who deserve top 10-15 consideration.

mightybosstone
11-02-2013, 11:31 AM
Oh.... And Love is clearly deserving of the spot, especially considering the dominant performances he's put up since he's been back and healthy. This Wolves team looks like a legit playoff squad.

Oefarmy2005
11-02-2013, 01:24 PM
Laughing at Love going 14th. People clearly forgot how good he is.

SlimKid
11-02-2013, 02:10 PM
If you don't like the system GTFO. It makes COMPLETE sense if you don't understand that then you shouldn't be taking part in these polls in the first place.

With that said I went with Love.

I don't like the system, and I am not allowed to have an opinion according to you. So by your advice, I will GTFO..

Thanks Captain

tredigs
11-02-2013, 02:11 PM
Laughing at Love going 14th. People clearly forgot how good he is.

But, can you blame them? I was pretty positive this exact statement was coming a couple weeks ago when we saw this would transfer into the 2014 season and Love was still there (and looking like he was ready to light it up again given his preseason performances). It's not wrong, I actually think he's an arguable top 10 and better than Melo at full bore, but I didn't see much of it then.

Bruno
11-02-2013, 03:31 PM
so now were letting this years performances through two games have an impact on how we vote? this has turned into a mess.

im not criticizing anyone, i'm just saying. this should have been completed before opening night. the voting system should be reevaluated going into next year. and that has nothing to do with whether or not it a good system. it has to do with the fact that every thread is derailed with complaining. i want to talk about basketball, not give or read the same rebuttal to complaints in a dozen threads every off-season.

MHC needs to considering opening up the voting next season, these threads have been completely derailed and it ruins it for everyone. look at the number of voters we have today on this thread for proof of the lack of general interest these threads now create. people arent voting because they're like me, sick of the non-basketball bickering, or they hate the system. either way, somethings gotta be done. there should be over 100 votes in here, given the fact that this thread is stickied, and hundreds visit the NBA thread every day now.

mightybosstone
11-02-2013, 04:10 PM
so now were letting this years performances through two games have an impact on how we vote? this has turned into a mess. I'm not criticizing anyone, i'm just saying. this should have been completed before opening night.
This part I actually agree with. Because this was supposed to be a thread of the top players going into the season, and these current performances are starting to affect the vote, the entire list is starting to look ridiculous. If you had Love at 14th prior to the season, people could buy it because he's coming off an injury and that's a legit spot for him. But now that the season has started, people are voting for current performance and Love at 14 seems ridiculous, because he's clearly a top 10 guy when healthy.

Personally, I think it should have either ended before the season's start or it should have only been 10 players to avoid this problem. Either way, it's a major issue.


the voting system should be reevaluated going into next year. and that has nothing to do with whether or not it a good system. it has to do with the fact that every thread is derailed with complaining. i want to talk about basketball, not give or read the same rebuttal to complaints in a dozen threads every off-season.

MHC needs to considering opening up the voting next season, these threads have been completely derailed and it ruins it for everyone. look at the number of voters we have today on this thread for proof of the lack of general interest these threads now create. people aren't voting because they're like me, sick of the non-basketball bickering, or they hate the system. either way, somethings gotta be done. there should be over 100 votes in here, given the fact that this thread is stickied, and hundreds visit the NBA thread every day now.
I actually don't think there's anything wrong with the voting system. PSD voted on the positions and the votes are based upon those rankings voted upon by PSD. If people don't like the overall rankings and the players available to vote on, they should have tried harder to vote for players during the positional rankings.

HOWEVER, I would be supportive of skipping the positional rankings altogether next offseason and just doing something like the top 50 overall players in the league. That would open up voting substantially, there'd be less confusion on the voting process, and more legitimate basketball discussion. I understand that we've done it this way for years and it's really not that complicated a system to understand, but most PSD posters are just idiots, don't care enough to read through the thread and just want to ***** for the sake of *****ing.

Also, by cutting back on the positional rankings, it will take fewer threads to finish the process, so there will be less concern about this cutting into the start of the regular season. And, in the end, does anyone really care that much about positional rankings? I'm actually more interested to see how guys stack up overall in the rankings. And we'll still be able to make some positional judgments based on the overall rankings.

Bruno
11-02-2013, 04:21 PM
i understand and i dont think there's anything wrong with the voting system either. its just that these threads are being ruined. thats a bummer. but i guess you're right, people will always find something to complain about. and im not knocking MCH at all, i appreciate all the time and effort he puts into this stuff and its just a bummer to not see basketball discussion.

InsightObjSub
11-05-2013, 12:43 AM
The reason the voting system is broken is it's basis on position of the previous year.

For example: Bosh is rated as a center, because he predominantly played as a center last year. When voting for centers, I would clearly rather have Howard, Gasol, etc.. Even Noah and Chandler as CENTERS above Bosh. However most individuals would choose Bosh as the better overall player over the likes of Noah and Chandler for his overall skill set and play him at his traditional 4 spot.

While I'm sure some on this forum truly do not understand the voting system, there are some who know your trying to play checkers in a game of chess.

TrueFan420
11-05-2013, 03:41 AM
Laughing at Love going 14th. People clearly forgot how good he is.

It's not that people forgot but its hard to vote for a player to be consider best when he missed the entire year before. Look at rose he's sucking compared to his pre injury form. However, if he came out playing pre injury form then it would a joke for him not to be on this list as well. Love will get his due next year if he maintains health but if he gets hurt and misses another huge chunk of time he will remain low on these types of lists.

b@llhog24
11-07-2013, 11:38 PM
Is 15 going up?