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View Full Version : Current or Recently Retired Players in Top 50 All Time



DreamShaker
11-01-2013, 02:36 AM
Recently retired players include

Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Grant Hill
T-Mac

Some current greats

Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
Garnett
Nash
Dirk
Wade
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobli
Chris Paul

How many of these guys are among the top 50 greatest players ever? Feel free to include anyone I am neglecting. My memory is iffy.

DreamShaker
11-01-2013, 02:38 AM
Also, feel free to close if we had this recently. I don't really remember.

WARRIORS@GR
11-01-2013, 02:49 AM
I don't think Grant Hill is top 50.All the others are/will be.

jerellh528
11-01-2013, 03:20 AM
All are in top 50 imo except maybe tmac, hill, ginobli.
This is the current top 50. now take 15 off to make room for the guys you listed. I just dont think those 3 make the cut, so subtract 12 guys.. Even if they do, guys like bron, durant, howard ,etc will knock them off shortly.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Nate Archibald

Paul Arizin

Charles Barkley

Rick Barry

Elgin Baylor

Dave Bing

Larry Bird

Wilt Chamberlain

Bob Cousy

Dave Cowens

Billy Cunningham

Dave DeBusschere

Clyde Drexler

Julius Erving

Patrick Ewing

Walt Frazier

George Gervin

Hal Greer

John Havlicek

Elvin Hayes

Magic Johnson

Sam Jones

Michael Jordan

Jerry Lucas

Karl Malone

Moses Malone

Pete Maravich

Kevin McHale

George Mikan

Earl Monroe

Hakeem Olajuwon

Shaquille O'Neal

Robert Parish

Bob Pettit

Scottie Pippen

Willis Reed

Oscar Robertson

David Robinson

Bill Russell

Dolph Schayes

Bill Sharman

John Stockton

Isiah Thomas

Nate Thurmond

Wes Unseld

Bill Walton

Jerry West

Lenny Wilkens

James Worthy

WARRIORS@GR
11-01-2013, 03:56 AM
^ So Lebron is not top 50 right now?:laugh::laugh:

jerellh528
11-01-2013, 03:59 AM
^ So Lebron is not top 50 right now?:laugh::laugh:

Im pretty sure you cant be active, which is why kobe,duncan,kg etc arent on there either. A quick look at the list could have told you that, but of course on this site it's always bahhh lebrons not goat! blasphemy!!1!

WARRIORS@GR
11-01-2013, 04:06 AM
Im pretty sure you cant be active, which is why kobe,duncan,kg etc arent on there either. A quick look at the list could have told you that, but of course on this site it's always bahhh lebrons not goat! blasphemy!!1!oh ok,i just saw this 'Even if they do, guys like bron, durant, howard ,etc will knock them off shortly.' didn't see the list you posted.

SPURSFAN1
11-01-2013, 04:11 AM
howard isn't top 50.

jerellh528
11-01-2013, 04:17 AM
howard isn't top 50.

Not right now. But i just used him as an example since hes relatively young and has potential to win more dpoys and add to his resume and easily pass guys like ginobli and hill, He certainly has a good chance to land top 50 and I don't like howard at all.

SPURSFAN1
11-01-2013, 04:30 AM
Manu was a beast when he was young. Dude was a straight beast. He also has the hardware to prove it. To win multiple titles and to put yourself in a position to win many more, he wasn't a role player. Lebron james making superteams to win titles. Manu was a part of that 3 headed beast for the spurs. It would take a miracle for howard to accomplish more than manu. I would take young manu vs howard. Just look at harden. If manu ever left to another team, he would be putting up ridiculous numbers.

jerellh528
11-01-2013, 04:38 AM
Manu was a beast when he was young. Dude was a straight beast. He also has the hardware to prove it. To win multiple titles and to put yourself in a position to win many more, he wasn't a role player. Lebron james making superteams to win titles. Manu was a part of that 3 headed beast for the spurs. It would take a miracle for howard to accomplish more than manu. I would take young manu vs howard. Just look at harden. If manu ever left to another team, he would be putting up ridiculous numbers.

Dude, manu was sick, as a laker fan I've hated him through many playoff series'. But no way would I take him over Howard. I think manu is on the outside of the top 50 of all time. No doubt he was highly skilled and was key to those spurs rings. Any team would have loved to have prime manu, but I think your bias is getting somewhat in the way here. Howard has far better chance of landing top 50 than manu.

SPURSFAN1
11-01-2013, 04:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VV6ibmaUFc

dude could just get his own pretty easily.

SPURSFAN1
11-01-2013, 04:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db123b2UZxg

how is this not a foul. my favorite ginobili play.

ombada
11-01-2013, 05:28 AM
Paul, Ginobilli, T-mac and Hill are iffy to me, but hey, its a matter of opinion.

jerellh528
11-01-2013, 05:41 AM
Paul, Ginobilli, T-mac and Hill are iffy to me, but hey, its a matter of opinion.

Paul? I respect your opinion but IMO Paul is one of the best ever to lace em up at pg. differing of opinions I suppose, but I have zero doubt that he will be top 50 all time.

ombada
11-01-2013, 05:57 AM
Paul? I respect your opinion but IMO Paul is one of the best ever to lace em up at pg. differing of opinions I suppose, but I have zero doubt that he will be top 50 all time.

Yeah i can understand where youre coming from.

I look at Paul and i see a guy who was never able to lead a team to championship. I see a guy who was only able to average over 20 PPG twice for his career and over 10 APG three times. None of these are solid reasons why he doesnt belong in the top 50, though.

He has some immense skill, but perhaps it is glorified by the overall lack of talent at PG since he came into the league. He was supposed to be in a group of the next great PG's, which he did become, but as he was entering the leauge, all the great PG's from the era before were making their exit. This also is not a solid reason why he shouldnt be included and can even be used to argue why a player like West shouldnt be on the list (talent level was weaker).

In order to get on this list, he has to displace some truly great players. Stockton, West, Cousy, Magic... etc and thats just at his position. Then he would have to displace guys at other positions, and guys that will have guaranteed spots there in the future (James, Bryant, Duncan)

Cases like his are helped by the fact that his time in the league is so fresh in our minds (considering he still plays) It makes it easier to study and remember what he does now, compared to a guy like George Mikan who we have much, much less film on.

Really i think a small percentage of the players listed will actually make it on the top 50.

jerellh528
11-01-2013, 06:17 AM
Yeah i can understand where youre coming from.

I look at Paul and i see a guy who was never able to lead a team to championship. I see a guy who was only able to average over 20 PPG twice for his career and over 10 APG three times. None of these are solid reasons why he doesnt belong in the top 50, though.

He has some immense skill, but perhaps it is glorified by the overall lack of talent at PG since he came into the league. He was supposed to be in a group of the next great PG's, which he did become, but as he was entering the leauge, all the great PG's from the era before were making their exit. This also is not a solid reason why he shouldnt be included and can even be used to argue why a player like West shouldnt be on the list (talent level was weaker).

In order to get on this list, he has to displace some truly great players. Stockton, West, Cousy, Magic... etc and thats just at his position. Then he would have to displace guys at other positions, and guys that will have guaranteed spots there in the future (James, Bryant, Duncan)

Cases like his are helped by the fact that his time in the league is so fresh in our minds (considering he still plays) It makes it easier to study and remember what he does now, compared to a guy like George Mikan who we have much, much less film on.

Really i think a small percentage of the players listed will actually make it on the top 50.
You put a lot of thought and effort into this post, nice post btw. But cp3 has been the best pg in a league full of amazing PGs for years now. This era of the nba is chock full of PGs who are highly talented and skilled. We keep looking for a pg who's the best, we throw rose, Westbrook, curry etc in the argument and then cp3 shows time and time again why he's a step ahead. There's not one thing he can't do. Best pg in the league at posting up, great defense, nice jumper, amazing court vision and iq, I honestly can't find one fault in his game. He actually could be the most skilled overall player in the nba. His teams have been hornets and clippers, nobody can fault him for no championship. His place is top 50 is inevitable, possible even top25. I'm drunk. Happy Halloween.

SPURSFAN1
11-01-2013, 07:27 AM
You put a lot of thought and effort into this post, nice post btw. But cp3 has been the best pg in a league full of amazing PGs for years now. This era of the nba is chock full of PGs who are highly talented and skilled. We keep looking for a pg who's the best, we throw rose, Westbrook, curry etc in the argument and then cp3 shows time and time again why he's a step ahead. There's not one thing he can't do. Best pg in the league at posting up, great defense, nice jumper, amazing court vision and iq, I honestly can't find one fault in his game. He actually could be the most skilled overall player in the nba. His teams have been hornets and clippers, nobody can fault him for no championship. His place is top 50 is inevitable, possible even top25. I'm drunk. Happy Halloween.

did you just leave out TP out on purpose? lol

ombada
11-01-2013, 08:22 AM
You put a lot of thought and effort into this post, nice post btw. But cp3 has been the best pg in a league full of amazing PGs for years now. This era of the nba is chock full of PGs who are highly talented and skilled. We keep looking for a pg who's the best, we throw rose, Westbrook, curry etc in the argument and then cp3 shows time and time again why he's a step ahead. There's not one thing he can't do. Best pg in the league at posting up, great defense, nice jumper, amazing court vision and iq, I honestly can't find one fault in his game. He actually could be the most skilled overall player in the nba. His teams have been hornets and clippers, nobody can fault him for no championship. His place is top 50 is inevitable, possible even top25. I'm drunk. Happy Halloween.

haha i really like this post.

I think hes one of the best PG's of a small group of great PG's, then after that the talent is shallow. I love my Pacers, but we were starting TJ Ford, Darren Collison and now George Hill who isnt a true PG. My team is one example of many teams that are similar.

Think of the talent at PG now. Westbrook, Curry, Rose, Williams, Paul, Parker and Rondo stand out. Lillard is a half tier below them. After that the talent level drops off considerably.

Theres second tier guys like Wall (getting there), Irving (strong defensive deficiency), Lowry (scoring point), Holliday (getting there), Lawson, Rubio... Teague and Hill are a half tier below these guys

Then theres third tier who have apparent deficiencies that are hard to argue; Jennings, Calderon, Walker, Chalmers, Knight, Felton, Nelson.

Then theres guys that are ? to me, like rookies and some second year guys and older vets like Nash who are already past their prime.

So basically were talking 7 teams out of 30 that have top PG talent. Three are in their prime (Rondo, Williams, Paul) and one that is exiting his prime (Parker). There are a few who could enter the conversation soon (Lillard, Wall, maybe Irving). Following them are players solid enough to be starters throughout their career, but have leveled off in terms of ability. After that there are guys that will be in and out of starting spots as surges of talent come in from college.

Again, this is all my opinion, i just want to give you something to think about when considering Pauls Competition throughout his career (it was even weaker as he was entering the league).

The most important point i can make, IMO, is who does he bump off the list? Most of the players that are on the list have legendary status and some have been on the list for 60 or so years. Throughout history they have remained among the greatest. Most have championships and MVP's under their belts, although Paul still has time to accomplish that. When they have to make room for guys like Lebron, Bryant and Duncan... where does Paul fit in to the conversation?

Happy belated halloween to you too buddy. :)

THE MTL
11-01-2013, 11:48 AM
Recently retired players include

Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Grant Hill
T-Mac

Some current greats

Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
Garnett
Nash
Dirk
Wade
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobli
Chris Paul

How many of these guys are among the top 50 greatest players ever? Feel free to include anyone I am neglecting. My memory is iffy.

Kobe Duncan Lebron are already top 10 all time in my opinion. Hill, Tmac, and Ginobli aren't top 50. And Iverson garnett dirk wade pierce nash and allen are already top 50. And when it said and done CP3 will def be in the top 50.

beliges
11-01-2013, 11:59 AM
Im pretty sure you cant be active, which is why kobe,duncan,kg etc arent on there either. A quick look at the list could have told you that, but of course on this site it's always bahhh lebrons not goat! blasphemy!!1!oh ok,i just saw this 'Even if they do, guys like bron, durant, howard ,etc will knock them off shortly.' didn't see the list you posted.

Howard definitely isn't top 50. At least not for me. He is much too one dimensional.

Lakersfan2483
11-01-2013, 12:34 PM
Recently retired players include

Allen Iverson
Jason Kidd
Grant Hill
T-Mac

Some current greats

Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
Garnett
Nash
Dirk
Wade
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobli
Chris Paul

How many of these guys are among the top 50 greatest players ever? Feel free to include anyone I am neglecting. My memory is iffy.

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Chris Paul

All of these guys are in the top 50. Guys like Manu, Grant Hill and T-Mac are fringe top 50. Hill and T Mac obviously had injury issues which hurt their careers.

DreamShaker
11-01-2013, 01:05 PM
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Lebron James
Kevin Durant
Dwayne Wade
Dirk Nowitzki
Ray Allen
Paul Pierce
Chris Paul

All of these guys are in the top 50. Guys like Manu, Grant Hill and T-Mac are fringe top 50. Hill and T Mac obviously had injury issues which hurt their careers.

So you think Iverson is nowhere near top 50?

Lakersfan2483
11-01-2013, 01:26 PM
So you think Iverson is nowhere near top 50?

I forgot Allen Iverson. He's definitely a top 50 player of all time.

todu82
11-10-2013, 05:45 PM
Iverson
Kidd
Kobe
Lebron
Duncan

bagwell368
11-11-2013, 09:27 PM
I have AI out of the top 70 as a player skill wise, and out of the top 120 as a total package.

I'd take Sam Jones, Dave Cowens, Bobby Jones, DJ, Cheeks, Mourning, Parker, KJ, Dumars, Hardaway, Webber and many more than rank below him on paper over him for my team.

slashsnake
11-12-2013, 01:49 AM
This is a tough one to put out. Outside of guys like Lebron, Kobe, and Duncan, it’s tough to call because you have to think of who is already in the top 50 that you are putting out to fit these guys in? Of the guys in the past 30 years or so, I think your “bubble” top 50 guys are players like Pippen, McHale, and Worthy. Then it goes into guys in the earlier era’s like Billy Cunningham, Earl Monroe, Dave Bing, Nate Archibald..

So is Ray Allen a top 50 if he’s taking Pete Maravich’s position? Is Grant Hill a top 50 in place of Scottie Pippen? Are we putting in Paul Pierce and taking out Kevin McHale?

I think if you are going to put in 10-12 guys from this era into the top 50, then you’d better have the names picked who you are taking off of the top 50 list.
And just so you remember, guys like Dominique Wilkins, Reggie Miller, Rodman, and Bob Lanier didn’t make this list. So no offense, but if Rodman is a no, Manu isn’t fringe.