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View Full Version : NBA GM Anonymously Admits To Intentionally Tanking



Clippersfan86
10-29-2013, 12:52 PM
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/29/nba-gm-anonymously-admits-he-owner-planned-to-tank-season/

Very interesting read. We all suspected it... but still interesting to read the confession.

"You need superstars to compete in this league, and the playing field for those guys is tilted toward a few big-market teams. They are demanding trades and getting together and deciding where they want to go in free agency. It’s tough for us to compete with that. So a high lottery pick is all we have."

tredigs
10-29-2013, 01:12 PM
I love how low he thinks of the players ability to reason in comparison to the coach when the GM says something along the lines of, "you have to be honest with the coach about what's going on - and he's fully on board - but we never really had to say a word. The writing was on the wall. But with the players, they can't ever know. We need them to lose organically. And every one of them thinks they're a playoff team". Hilarious.

MygirlhatesCod
10-29-2013, 01:13 PM
i could say someone Anonymously told me they could lick their own elbow it wouldnt mean a thing. unless there is a name behind it it should have never been said. i believe the trade rumors on psd more than i believe this cowardly no name statement maker.

Clippersfan86
10-29-2013, 01:14 PM
I love how low he thinks of the players ability to reason in comparison to the coach when the GM says something along the lines of, "you have to be honest with the coach about what's going on - and he's fully on board - but we never really had to say a word. The writing was on the wall. But with the players, they can't ever know. We need them to lose organically. And every one of them thinks they're a playoff team". Hilarious.

I chuckled at that too haha.

Sinestro
10-29-2013, 01:21 PM
Sucks but its necessary

Gators123
10-29-2013, 01:36 PM
So.. What happens if they tank, get the 4th pick, and he isn't a franchise player? Do they keep tanking until they actually get a superstar?

flea
10-29-2013, 01:39 PM
Quit catering to superstars with the rules and you'll get a more balanced game with real basketball. Otherwise, shut up and deal with teams tanking and a largely meaningless regular season.

tredigs
10-29-2013, 01:40 PM
i could say someone Anonymously told me they could lick their own elbow it wouldnt mean a thing. unless there is a name behind it it should have never been said. i believe the trade rumors on psd more than i believe this cowardly no name statement maker.

It becomes more of whether or not the writer of the article has proven trustworthy in the past when they go this 'anonymous' route. I trust this more than "league sources say the Kings have interest in X player", but most of that is because it's obvious that the statements are the truth. Whether or not someone said them.

nycericanguy
10-29-2013, 01:46 PM
I wish the MIA heat were never formed, even if it meant no Melo in NY.

It really has had a domino effect, all these other stars know they need to team up to compete now and it is kinda ruining the game.

MygirlhatesCod
10-29-2013, 01:51 PM
I wish the MIA heat were never formed, even if it meant no Melo in NY.

It really has had a domino effect, all these other stars know they need to team up to compete now and it is kinda ruining the game.

this statement is very true it really waters down the regular season.

abe_froman
10-29-2013, 01:54 PM
So.. What happens if they tank, get the 4th pick, and he isn't a franchise player? Do they keep tanking until they actually get a superstar?

depends on the owner and gm,but they usually do.

everyone knows this goes on(always has),unfortunately its a necessity to do it...dont see how this is news

futureman
10-29-2013, 02:45 PM
You need to give these teams an extra $20 million or more, in cap room to spend on players that they draft. Or they need to instill the franchise tag like they have in the NFL.

WestCoastSportz
10-29-2013, 02:48 PM
Tanking has been around since the new lottery system was implemented in 1990, so this isn't news. Just because a team tanks and lands an early pick, doesn't mean they automatically become a good team. A player like Lebron James comes around once every 10 years. Same with a Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. The Wizards won 26 games in 2009-10 and got the first overall pick to take John Wall. They then went on to win 23 games then 20 in the next 2 seasons, so they actually got worst after taking Wall and they're still not a playoff team. The same goes for Cleveland who drafted Kyrie Irving and the Blazers who drafted Greg Oden in 2007.

futureman
10-29-2013, 02:59 PM
This is Dennis Lindsey. The Jazz are the only small market team in the tank race this year and makes reference to Big market teams.

ghettosean
10-29-2013, 03:01 PM
I wish the MIA heat were never formed, even if it meant no Melo in NY.

It really has had a domino effect, all these other stars know they need to team up to compete now and it is kinda ruining the game.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

The game is not as fun or exciting as it used to be because of this lopsided choice by Lebron to skip out on the Cavs to form a superteam like this with little to no competition at that time in the east and for this he gets called a champion :facepalm:

Definitely the worst move and DECISION in NBA history for the NBA as a whole.

2-ONE-5
10-29-2013, 03:29 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

The game is not as fun or exciting as it used to be because of this lopsided choice by Lebron to skip out on the Cavs to form a superteam like this with little to no competition at that time in the east and for this he gets called a champion :facepalm:

Definitely the worst move and DECISION in NBA history for the NBA as a whole.

this

ManRam
10-29-2013, 03:48 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a Magic fan (though, I've long felt this way), I think we use the phrase "tanking" both too liberally and too derogatorily. More often than not it's a necessary and smart strategy to win...and more often than not people use it to describe teams that are genuinely bad and are just building for the future. Losing in the short term is just a byproduct of that.


This isn't a LeBron/Heat thing either...that's just dumb. Teams have long realized the importance of "bottoming out" and building through drafts. We've just seen more success stories of late so it's more common. Most importantly, fans tend to be OK with it. I know 90% of Magic fans were OK with how we're rebuilding. I know once most Philly fans thought about it, they realize what they're doing is for the best. There's no reason NOT to shed salary and expensive assets, and look to build through the draft, if you aren't contending. GMs would be idiots to "tank", if that's what we're calling it.


And there's no way around it. Perhaps there are some slight improvements that can be made in the draft lottery, but you can't overhaul it and improve the system.

*Superman*
10-29-2013, 04:16 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a Magic fan (though, I've long felt this way), I think we use the phrase "tanking" both too liberally and too derogatorily. More often than not it's a necessary and smart strategy to win...and more often than not people use it to describe teams that are genuinely bad and are just building for the future. Losing in the short term is just a byproduct of that.


This isn't a LeBron/Heat thing either...that's just dumb. Teams have long realized the importance of "bottoming out" and building through drafts. We've just seen more success stories of late so it's more common. Most importantly, fans tend to be OK with it. I know 90% of Magic fans were OK with how we're rebuilding. I know once most Philly fans thought about it, they realize what they're doing is for the best. There's no reason NOT to shed salary and expensive assets, and look to build through the draft, if you aren't contending. GMs would be idiots to "tank", if that's what we're calling it.


And there's no way around it. Perhaps there are some slight improvements that can be made in the draft lottery, but you can't overhaul it and improve the system.

As I once read, "rebuilding isn't tanking". It's bound to happen, a team will end up in a **** situation where they will need to gut and hit the restart button.

I have no problem with teams positively encouraging "tanking". It's a strategy to get better.

ghettosean
10-29-2013, 04:29 PM
Maybe it's because I'm a Magic fan (though, I've long felt this way), I think we use the phrase "tanking" both too liberally and too derogatorily. More often than not it's a necessary and smart strategy to win...and more often than not people use it to describe teams that are genuinely bad and are just building for the future. Losing in the short term is just a byproduct of that.


This isn't a LeBron/Heat thing either...that's just dumb. Teams have long realized the importance of "bottoming out" and building through drafts. We've just seen more success stories of late so it's more common. Most importantly, fans tend to be OK with it. I know 90% of Magic fans were OK with how we're rebuilding. I know once most Philly fans thought about it, they realize what they're doing is for the best. There's no reason NOT to shed salary and expensive assets, and look to build through the draft, if you aren't contending. GMs would be idiots to "tank", if that's what we're calling it.


And there's no way around it. Perhaps there are some slight improvements that can be made in the draft lottery, but you can't overhaul it and improve the system.

No diss but the GM says it in his 1st paragraph pretty much


You need superstars to compete in this league, and the playing field for those guys is tilted toward a few big-market teams. They are demanding trades and getting together and deciding where they want to go in free agency. Itís tough for us to compete with that. So a high lottery pick is all we have.

The forming of the heat was the start of this and there is a reason it outraged the entire sports world (not even just the basketball world) it was clear at the time it was a lopsided formation which is why LBJ, Wade and Bosh all got up on stage danced around like idiots and Lebron basically gloating about how many rings he would win with that team before they even had a practice. Since that decision you didn't have to tank in order to compete but unfortunately that decision had a domino effect where Melo wanted to Join Amare (they got Chandler as well), CP3 wanted to Join Kobe/Gasol, Brooklyn was formed to compete with Miami... So basically right now you either have 2 type of teams in the league super elite or teams that just won't compete because they can't beat a Miami or Brooklyn and tank to get a top draft pick to try and compete next year.

Whether you want to believe it or not it all started with Lebron #1 player in the league joining Wade the #2 player in the league at the time (still a top 5 player) and Bosh a top 20 player. Only the super teams can complete against them everyone else needs to go into rebuilding mode to try and get top talent to compete against them in the future there is no in between (This is clearly what the GM was stating in the quote that I snipped out of the article) unless you want to get stuck in the middle and be mediocre for years to come.

mike_noodles
10-29-2013, 04:32 PM
Tanking has been around since the new lottery system was implemented in 1990, so this isn't news. Just because a team tanks and lands an early pick, doesn't mean they automatically become a good team. A player like Lebron James comes around once every 10 years. Same with a Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. The Wizards won 26 games in 2009-10 and got the first overall pick to take John Wall. They then went on to win 23 games then 20 in the next 2 seasons, so they actually got worst after taking Wall and they're still not a playoff team. The same goes for Cleveland who drafted Kyrie Irving and the Blazers who drafted Greg Oden in 2007.

Lottery systems are put in place in an effort to prevent tanking. Before 1990, whoever tanked hardest actually got the #1 pick. Now there's a bigger risk to it.

lilchuckdoubles
10-29-2013, 04:40 PM
would getting rid of the lottery make the nba better or worse?

ManRam
10-29-2013, 04:41 PM
No diss but the GM says it in his 1st paragraph pretty much



The forming of the heat was the start of this and there is a reason it outraged the entire sports world (not even just the basketball world) it was clear at the time it was a lopsided formation which is why LBJ, Wade and Bosh all got up on stage danced around like idiots and Lebron basically gloating about how many rings he would win with that team before they even had a practice. Since that decision you didn't have to tank in order to compete but unfortunately that decision had a domino effect where Melo wanted to Join Amare (they got Chandler as well), CP3 wanted to Join Kobe/Gasol, Brooklyn was formed to compete with Miami... So basically right now you either have 2 type of teams in the league super elite or teams that just won't compete because they can't beat a Miami or Brooklyn and tank to get a top draft pick to try and compete next year.

Whether you want to believe it or not it all started with Lebron #1 player in the league joining Wade the #2 player in the league at the time (still a top 5 player) and Bosh a top 20 player. Only the super teams can complete against them everyone else needs to go into rebuilding mode to try and get top talent to compete against them in the future there is no in between unless you want to get stuck in the middle and be mediocre for years to come.

It wasn't the start of this though. I could name quite a few examples, but do you blame the Heat for the Thunder's ability to build by selling off high-priced assess and building via the draft? And kind of taking a while to get good again so they could stockpile top picks and cap space?



Remember Grant and T-Mac going to the Magic? Remember Duncan wanted to go to? People have teamed up before. Even if LeBron didn't do it, others would, and others have.

Yes, free agency is different now and the players have finally become aware of the power they have. No, teams trying to rebuild properly, or as some call "tanking" is not entirely because of that.


Now, if you want to turn this into a competitve balance argument, and how teams are forced to do this because there are great teams, well that truly is dumb. LeBron and his peers might have finally figured out who has the power in the NBA (hint: it's them), but there have been tremendous dynasties and competitive balance issues for ever. The Heat pail in comparison to some of the greatest dynasties ever. Bad, small market teams have always have been chasing Boston, LA, Chicago and so on.


LeBron James didn't cause the phenomena we are now calling tanking. He and his peers have played a role into the shape-shifting of free agency, mainly players being more willing to leave teams after 6-7 years, but front offices are getting smarter and now know that signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva to stupid contracts isn't the way to go.

Guppyfighter
10-29-2013, 04:43 PM
Teams that it could possibly be

Sixers
Raptors
Magic
Jazz
Kings
Suns
Celtics

sunsfan88
10-29-2013, 04:44 PM
You guys realize that's the Suns GM right?


We obviously traded away some of our veteran guys who gave us a better chance of winning right now for future draft picks and young players.


We're not alone. Look at the 76ers. Since the draft in June, I don't think they've signed a player or made a trade to add a legitimate player.

Its either us or the Celtics GM but they still haven't traded Rondo who gives them a good chance of winning games and probably even makin the playoffs in the East.

TheIlladelph16
10-29-2013, 04:52 PM
This isn't a LeBron/Heat thing either...that's just dumb. Teams have long realized the importance of "bottoming out" and building through drafts. We've just seen more success stories of late so it's more common. Most importantly, fans tend to be OK with it. I know 90% of Magic fans were OK with how we're rebuilding. I know once most Philly fans thought about it, they realize what they're doing is for the best. There's no reason NOT to shed salary and expensive assets, and look to build through the draft, if you aren't contending. GMs would be idiots to "tank", if that's what we're calling it.

As a Sixer fan, I can tell you that most of us have been calling for this for a few years now. The worst place you can be in the NBA is a middling team that's too good to bottom out and not good enough to compete. There just isn't enough marquee talent coming into the league each year. We have every expectation of being terrible for a year, probably 2-3, but we know its the only way to properly build in the NBA.

There are exceptions of course for the bigger markets because they can attract the superstars, but this isn't the MLB or NFL where you can outbid other suitors. Superstars are basically offered the same amount of money, with varying incentives from the cities of the teams in play, and choose based on their personal preference. Unless these small market teams are bottoming out and drafting smartly, they stand little shot at getting a FA superstar even if they offer the same contract.

Sucks for the fans because of the current product on the court I guess, but long-term success is often worth being awful for a short time.

ManRam
10-29-2013, 04:53 PM
Lottery systems are put in place in an effort to prevent tanking. Before 1990, whoever tanked hardest actually got the #1 pick. Now there's a bigger risk to it.

Exactly. Teams are OK with not being great, but the insentive to have the worst record is less than it was before. And I don't think anyone should have a problem with it (so long as it's not anything other than for the short term). The system now is pretty much the best it is. You could go with all lottery teams having equal odds at each lottery pick, but then you're giving incentive to teams to purposefully not make the playoffs. The difference between an 8th seed and the last lottery team is nothing now.

You could scrap it completely, but that's just dumb.


It is what it is.


And one more point, you're seeing teams implement this NBA strategy in baseball now...a lot of interesting reads out there about how what Houston and others are doing mirrors the "tanking", or more properly "rebuilding", of NBA teams. Why? Because it makes sense. Can't blame LeBron James for stuff that happens in baseball.

DreamShaker
10-29-2013, 04:53 PM
So.. What happens if they tank, get the 4th pick, and he isn't a franchise player? Do they keep tanking until they actually get a superstar?

You become the Bobcats.

ManRam
10-29-2013, 04:54 PM
As a Sixer fan, I can tell you that most of us have been calling for this for a few years now. The worst place you can be in the NBA is a middling team that's too good to bottom out and not good enough to compete. There just isn't enough marquee talent coming into the league each year. We have every expectation of being terrible for a year, probably 2-3, but we know its the only way to properly build in the NBA.

There are exceptions of course for the bigger markets because they can attract the superstars, but this isn't the MLB or NFL where you can outbid other suitors. Superstars are basically offered the same amount of money, with varying incentives from the cities of the teams in play, and choose based on their personal preference. Unless these small market teams are bottoming out and drafting smartly, they stand little shot at getting a FA superstar even if they offer the same contract.

Sucks for the fans because of the current product on the court I guess, but long-term success is often worth being awful for a short time.

Limbo is the worst place any NBA team can be. Hard to ever get better when you have a full cap and a mediocre team. Rebuilding bottom-up is only the most reasonable way to do it.

dhopisthename
10-29-2013, 05:05 PM
You guys realize that's the Suns GM right?





Its either us or the Celtics GM but they still haven't traded Rondo who gives them a good chance of winning games and probably even makin the playoffs in the East.

those two teams would have been my geuss as well.

ManRam
10-29-2013, 06:22 PM
I just don't get how you can get upset with what Orlando, Philly, Boston, PHX etc. are doing? You want these teams to do things that aren't in their best interest? Because what they are doing absolutely is.