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View Full Version : Bogut Inks 3 year - $43 Million Deal



tredigs
10-25-2013, 07:40 PM
The deal reportedly is actually 3 year - $36 Million that includes $6 Mil in potential incentives.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--warriors-sign-andrew-bogut-to--43-million-extension-233724547.html

Center Andrew Bogut has signed a three-year contract extension that could be worth $43 million with the Golden State Warriors, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Andrew Bogut was traded to the Warriors midway through the 2011-12 season. (USA Today)
The signing will be announced at a news conference Friday night.
After fighting injuries over the past few years, Bogut was traded to the Warriors in March 2012 and has become an integral part of a core the organization believes can eventually push for championship contention.

Bogut's agent, David Bauman, traveled to the Bay Area on Thursday to complete the negotiations with Warriors general manager Bob Myers.

The Warriors didn't want to risk the consequences of a healthy, productive 2013-14 season making Bogut the most attractive free-agent center on the market next summer. The Warriors have several key players – including Bogut, guard Stephen Curry and forward Andre Iguodala – locked into long-term deals now

Per Woj:

Bogut's extension gives Warriors flexibility to sign players in future years of deal. He will make $13M-plus in first year, then descending.

4milesperday
10-25-2013, 07:40 PM
good deal

Guppyfighter
10-25-2013, 07:50 PM
The amount of money he wants and it's short term so it's not damaging at all.

Byronicle
10-25-2013, 07:56 PM
He's so injure prone though

xabial
10-25-2013, 07:58 PM
Even with health concerns, Bogut says he wouldn't take a partially guaranteed contract, though.

“Just based on the fact that my last two injuries I can't control,” Bogut said. “If these were chronic injuries from lack of conditioning or not working out in the summer or being a fat slob, I can understand the caution. But would I do things to the extent that Andrew Bynum's done with his contract? Hell no. The clauses that he has, there's no chance I would sign a contract. But basically having game incentives — whatever the number is, 60, 70, whatever it is — I have no problem. I think that's only fair.”

Looks like a guaranteed deal to me.

tredigs
10-25-2013, 08:12 PM
Looks like a guaranteed deal to me.

It says right in there that he "has no problem with game incentives". Apparently 36 is guaranteed, the rest is incentives.

Solid deal imo, depending on the game incentives that's nice to hear if you're a Warriors fan.

BKLYNpigeon
10-25-2013, 08:19 PM
GREAT Deal for the Warriors... seeing what Centers makes these days, 12 million a year is a bargain.

tp13baby
10-25-2013, 08:25 PM
Really starting to believe McGee's contract has the potential to be one of the better ones in the league depending how much he improves under Shaw.

Just based on Boguts contract.

tredigs
10-25-2013, 08:43 PM
Really starting to believe McGee's contract has the potential to be one of the better ones in the league depending how much he improves under Shaw.

Just based on Boguts contract.

1-2 mil a year less but with an added year? Definitely wouldn't rather have Javale there myself.

BKLYNpigeon
10-25-2013, 08:45 PM
Its a fair deal on both sides. Its great that its incentive based and only 3 years.

Mr.SmackYoMama
10-25-2013, 08:54 PM
Love this move for The Dubs.....Can't wait for the season to start!

mightybosstone
10-25-2013, 08:58 PM
In terms of value for centers in this league, it's not a bad deal. That being said, I still hate it. You just gave $36 million guaranteed for three years to a player who played 44 total games the last two seasons and hasn't played 70 games in a season since 2008. That's (at the very least) $12 million per year to a guy who played less than 25 minutes a game a season ago, posted his third consecutive season of a sub .500 TS% (horrible for ANY player, much less a center) and has seen his PER each season from 20.7 in 2010 to only 13.8 a year ago.

At best, you'll get 25-30 minutes of a useless offensive player who can anchor a defense when he's on the floor, but will play at most 60-65 games a season and miss huge chunks of time. And considering he's nearly 29 and isn't getting any younger, there's a good chance he may not play half the games in the next three seasons.

I just find it hard to believe that they couldn't have let Bogut play out this contract and gotten someone just as good for a hell of a lot less than $12 million a year in the offseason. For a young team like Golden State, I think this contract could really hurt them in adding to their young core over the next couple of years.

WARRIORS@GR
10-25-2013, 09:10 PM
I just find it hard to believe that they couldn't have let Bogut play out this contract and gotten someone just as good for a hell of a lot less than $12 million a year in the offseason. For a young team like Golden State, I think this contract could really hurt them in adding to their young core over the next couple of years.
Are you serious?Just as good?Have you seen healthy Bogut play?He is a top 3 center when healthy,and makes this team a legit title contender.
Who could they get in they offseason for lot less than 12,who will be as good as Bogut?

BKLYNpigeon
10-25-2013, 09:14 PM
In terms of value for centers in this league, it's not a bad deal. That being said, I still hate it. You just gave $36 million guaranteed for three years to a player who played 44 total games the last two seasons and hasn't played 70 games in a season since 2008. That's (at the very least) $12 million per year to a guy who played less than 25 minutes a game a season ago, posted his third consecutive season of a sub .500 TS% (horrible for ANY player, much less a center) and has seen his PER each season from 20.7 in 2010 to only 13.8 a year ago.

At best, you'll get 25-30 minutes of a useless offensive player who can anchor a defense when he's on the floor, but will play at most 60-65 games a season and miss huge chunks of time. And considering he's nearly 29 and isn't getting any younger, there's a good chance he may not play half the games in the next three seasons.

I just find it hard to believe that they couldn't have let Bogut play out this contract and gotten someone just as good for a hell of a lot less than $12 million a year in the offseason. For a young team like Golden State, I think this contract could really hurt them in adding to their young core over the next couple of years.


Both of Bogut's injuries were freak accidents, The reason why he was prone to injury because he kept trying to come back when he shouldnt have. When Bogut is playing with the warriors, they hold the opponents to 8 points less on average last season. he's a difference maker. Bogut came to training camp in the best shape of his life he said. He is also 15 pounds lighter and added muscle.

if you want to talk about bad contracts. Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik is on the books for 15 million each next season!

BKLYNpigeon
10-25-2013, 09:17 PM
Are you serious?Just as good?Have you seen healthy Bogut play?He is a top 3 center when healthy,and makes this team a legit title contender.
Who could they get in they offseason for lot less than 12,who will be as good as Bogut?


He's not a top 3 center when healthy... sorry. He might crack the top 10.

dhopisthename
10-25-2013, 09:19 PM
Both of Bogut's injuries were freak accidents, The reason why he was prone to injury because he kept trying to come back when he shouldnt have. When Bogut is playing with the warriors, they hold the opponents to 8 points less on average last season. he's a difference maker. Bogut came to training camp in the best shape of his life he said. He is also 15 pounds lighter and added muscle.

if you want to talk about bad contracts. Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik is on the books for 15 million each next season!

no there not

BKLYNpigeon
10-25-2013, 09:21 PM
no there not

yes they are....

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

tredigs
10-25-2013, 09:26 PM
He's not a top 3 center when healthy... sorry. He might crack the top 10.

2010 he was top 3. We'll see how much of that he still has in him this year.

WARRIORS@GR
10-25-2013, 09:31 PM
He's not a top 3 center when healthy... sorry. He might crack the top 10.
Crack the top 10?lol..give me 10 better centers right now than 09/10 Bogut and I will stop posting forever.

dhopisthename
10-25-2013, 09:39 PM
yes they are....

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

they have to pay 15 million but they are not on the books for that much. they do owe 8.4 mill which is way to much for lin

this is better http://www.storytellerscontracts.com/

Clippersfan86
10-25-2013, 09:44 PM
He's not a top 3 center when healthy... sorry. He might crack the top 10.

I disagree. He's definitely a top 3 center impact wise, all around. Unlike guys like Cousins for example who have MASSIVE holes in their game... Bogut has no holes. When healthy he's one of a couple true defensive anchors, can give you an efficient 15-17 ppg, passes well, rebounds at an elite level. Last time he was healthy he was the second best center in the game and IF healthy he will return to top 3. Drummond will rise up soon and destroy, Cousins may improve but Bogut healthy is better than Hibbert.

Clippersfan86
10-25-2013, 09:45 PM
Good deal for both parties though, forgot to add that. I'm a huge Bogut fan. Definitely one of my top 3 favorite non Clippers.

Chromehounds
10-25-2013, 10:12 PM
Good deal for both and there isn't a Center out there next year that can bring a Defensive presence like Bogut. Also, the W's are no longer a run and gun team, not majority of the time anyway; Bogut will fit in and last with the W's.

FlashBolt
10-25-2013, 10:56 PM
Most of you mentioned when he's healthy.. Yes, when he's worthy, he's worth that much. He's not worth that much, but let's hope he can prevail against those injuries.

Knick_Fever
10-25-2013, 11:05 PM
Extremely risky deal for an injury prone player. I'm surprised many of you think this is a good deal.

bleedprple&gold
10-25-2013, 11:19 PM
I disagree. He's definitely a top 3 center impact wise, all around. Unlike guys like Cousins for example who have MASSIVE holes in their game... Bogut has no holes. When healthy he's one of a couple true defensive anchors, can give you an efficient 15-17 ppg, passes well, rebounds at an elite level. Last time he was healthy he was the second best center in the game and IF healthy he will return to top 3. Drummond will rise up soon and destroy, Cousins may improve but Bogut healthy is better than Hibbert.

No holes? Yea except no jump shot or post game.

JNA17
10-25-2013, 11:30 PM
Wow. What the hell did this guy do in the last half a decade to earn that money?

Looks like just being as tall as a center nowadays gives you free money. Even if you suck or have knees made out of bubblewrap. Hell, in Bogut's case, you don't even have to play games! :pity:

This guy was never a top 5 center when healthy and never will be, just like how he will probably never play 70+ games a year.

Well hey, it is the Warrior's money after all. Hopefully the fans just blame themselves when guys like Klay Thomspon, Harrison Barnes, etc, leave the team.

mightybosstone
10-25-2013, 11:41 PM
Are you serious?Just as good?Have you seen healthy Bogut play?He is a top 3 center when healthy,and makes this team a legit title contender. Who could they get in they offseason for lot less than 12,who will be as good as Bogut?
Top 3 center? Which of Howard, Duncan, Gasol, Hibbert, Noah, Chandler or Lopez is he better than? Those are just 6 off the top of my head. I'd also easily take Jefferson, Pekovic, Asik and Gortat, as well as a healthy Bynum and probably Monroe and Cousins based on potential.

Edit: As for who they could get, Gortat and Okafor are free agents in 2014, I believe. Gortat would be more expensive, but he's a better all around player. Okafor would be cheaper. Dalembert, Varejao and Birdman might also be available depending on decisions they or their teams make, and all three would be substantially cheaper than $12 million a year. Another option could be to play Lee at C and draft a defensive 4 to play next to him. He played almost half of his minutes at C last season already.


Both of Bogut's injuries were freak accidents, The reason why he was prone to injury because he kept trying to come back when he shouldnt have. When Bogut is playing with the warriors, they hold the opponents to 8 points less on average last season. he's a difference maker. Bogut came to training camp in the best shape of his life he said. He is also 15 pounds lighter and added muscle.

if you want to talk about bad contracts. Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik is on the books for 15 million each next season!

First off, you're looking at their contracts incorrectly. They're $15 million next season, but both players have also been insane bargains for these first 2 years at only $5 million a year and are making an average of $8.3 million apiece. For Lin, that's maybe a bit much, but that's a bargain for a defensive and rebounding player of Asik's value.

As for Bogut's injuries, MOST injuries are freak accidents. Nobody gets injured on purpose, and most of them are unusual circumstances. If they weren't unusual or accidents, players would get injured far more often than they do already.

bgdreton
10-25-2013, 11:45 PM
Wow. What the hell did this guy do in the last half a decade to earn that money?

Looks like just being as tall as a center nowadays gives you free money. Even if you suck or have knees made out of bubblewrap. Hell, in Bogut's case, you don't even have to play games! :pity:

This guy was never a top 5 center when healthy and never will be, just like how he will probably never play 70+ games a year.

Well hey, it is the Warrior's money after all. Hopefully the fans just blame themselves when guys like Klay Thomspon, Harrison Barnes, etc, leave the team.

Would you like to sig bet for he will never play 70 plus games? Oh and he was a top 5 center in 2010... Heathy now ill give him 5 - 10

Guppyfighter
10-25-2013, 11:46 PM
Wow. What the hell did this guy do in the last half a decade to earn that money?

Looks like just being as tall as a center nowadays gives you free money. Even if you suck or have knees made out of bubblewrap. Hell, in Bogut's case, you don't even have to play games! :pity:

This guy was never a top 5 center when healthy and never will be, just like how he will probably never play 70+ games a year.

Well hey, it is the Warrior's money after all. Hopefully the fans just blame themselves when guys like Klay Thomspon, Harrison Barnes, etc, leave the team.


I have seen a lot of dumb posts, but this one probably takes the cake. There is so much wrong about this.

Klay gets his extension when Bogut expires and Barnes gets his when Iggy expires.

Plus, when Bogut was healthy he led the league in blocks and charges. I will let you process how crazy good that is defensively. Bucks were in third in defense in the entire league when Bogut was on the floor? What about off? They were the second worst defensive team in the league when he was off.

But this is the "What have you done for me recently league."

mightybosstone
10-25-2013, 11:47 PM
I disagree. He's definitely a top 3 center impact wise, all around. Unlike guys like Cousins for example who have MASSIVE holes in their game... Bogut has no holes. When healthy he's one of a couple true defensive anchors, can give you an efficient 15-17 ppg, passes well, rebounds at an elite level. Last time he was healthy he was the second best center in the game and IF healthy he will return to top 3. Drummond will rise up soon and destroy, Cousins may improve but Bogut healthy is better than Hibbert.

What??? This is nonsense. He averaged more than 15 points ONCE in seven seasons in the league. And I don't think he's every been a top 3 center in the NBA. Maybe for that one season 2009-2010, but I don't have the numbers in front of me and that's an exception to the rule.

Howard, Gasol, Duncan, Hibbert, Noah and Lopez are all clearly superior basketball players, and that doesn't consider players like Chandler, Asik, Cousins, Monroe, Jefferson, Pekovic, Sanders, Drummond and Gortat. I'd much rather have any of the players I just listed for a young franchise like Golden State than Bogut. Not all of those guys are good fits for the Warriors, but I'd still rather have them long-term.

lol, please
10-25-2013, 11:49 PM
The amount of money he wants and it's short term so it's not damaging at all.

Agreed.




Bogut. :worthy:

lol, please
10-25-2013, 11:49 PM
He's so injure prone though

:facepalm:

lol, please
10-25-2013, 11:51 PM
Bogut is absolutely a top 3 Center when healthy. Anything else is nonsense.

bgdreton
10-25-2013, 11:52 PM
Man there is a lot of bogut hate in these forums.... I mean they were saying the same stuff about curry and so far that worked out...

Guppyfighter
10-25-2013, 11:55 PM
Nah, he gets his love and he gets his hate. He is pretty polarizing.


The only thing I find hilarious is when people talk about injuries for players, of any kind like they know what they are talking about. The body is complicated and most injuries are just bad luck. A lot of "injury prone" players can just stop being injured and vice versa. There are only certain kind of injuries that are nagging and reoccur and this forum doesn't have a strong grasp on it. It's like "I want to flaunt my medical ignorance as much as possible when talking about players."

mightybosstone
10-25-2013, 11:57 PM
Bogut is absolutely a top 3 Center when healthy. Anything else is nonsense.

Based on what? The guy has averaged more than 15 points a game once in eight seasons, hasn't had a TS% over .500 in three years, has only posted a .112 WS/48 once in eight seasons, has almost no offensive range and very little semblance of a post game. He's basically only a very good defensive center, but there are better defensive centers in the league than him who have far more balance offensively.

Even a healthy Bogut is AT BEST a fringe top 10 guy.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 12:03 AM
Nah, he gets his love and he gets his hate. He is pretty polarizing.


The only thing I find hilarious is when people talk about injuries for players, of any kind like they know what they are talking about. The body is complicated and most injuries are just bad luck. A lot of "injury prone" players can just stop being injured and vice versa. There are only certain kind of injuries that are nagging and reoccur and this forum doesn't have a strong grasp on it. It's like "I want to flaunt my medical ignorance as much as possible when talking about players."

Ya I know it not like Greg oden and his knees... It's was a couple crazy accidents but haters goin to hate whatever.. I just feel it a good deal just based on who would we get instead... If someone could give me a logical alternative I would seriously listen

SPURSFAN1
10-26-2013, 12:04 AM
Bogut is not, ever, or used to be a top 3 center. He is not a young player and can't seem to find time to stay healthy. He is more likely to get injured than to play atleast 70 games this season.

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 12:04 AM
Nah, he gets his love and he gets his hate. He is pretty polarizing.

The only thing I find hilarious is when people talk about injuries for players, of any kind like they know what they are talking about. The body is complicated and most injuries are just bad luck. A lot of "injury prone" players can just stop being injured and vice versa. There are only certain kind of injuries that are nagging and reoccur and this forum doesn't have a strong grasp on it. It's like "I want to flaunt my medical ignorance as much as possible when talking about players."

I doubt there are any doctors on PSD, but you know what there are a few of? Realists. I don't have a thorough knowledge of the body, but I do have a thorough knowledge of professional sports. Guys who have played in the league for 8 years, have logged years worth of experience in international play and have consistently had injuries throughout their career don't suddenly start logging 35 minutes a game, play 75+ games a season and start putting up career numbers at age 29. That's what you're looking at with Bogut, who plays a position that has suffered an obscene amount of injuries over the last decade.

I like Bogut. I wish there were more players like him, and I hope he stays healthy and earns that contract. But if I'm being honest, there's very little reason to believe that will be the case. If it was a player on the Rockets, I would say exactly the same thing.

EAGLES3658
10-26-2013, 12:05 AM
Wow. What the hell did this guy do in the last half a decade to earn that money?

Looks like just being as tall as a center nowadays gives you free money. Even if you suck or have knees made out of bubblewrap. Hell, in Bogut's case, you don't even have to play games! :pity:

This guy was never a top 5 center when healthy and never will be, just like how he will probably never play 70+ games a year.

Well hey, it is the Warrior's money after all. Hopefully the fans just blame themselves when guys like Klay Thomspon, Harrison Barnes, etc, leave the team.
Well he was top 3 at one point, so...

Rndy
10-26-2013, 12:05 AM
If healthy he's a top 10 center easily but he's never healthy

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 12:10 AM
Ya I know it not like Greg oden and his knees... It's was a couple crazy accidents but haters goin to hate whatever.. I just feel it a good deal just based on who would we get instead... If someone could give me a logical alternative I would seriously listen

How about Gortat? He's pretty much the same age as Bogut (slightly older), but he hasn't logged nearly as many minutes and has played and thrived in an up-tempo style offense like the Warriors play. He's not quite the defender or rebounder Bogut is, but he's certainly no slouch, and he's got a far more versatile offensive game. He and Curry could have been an excellent pick and roll combination. Gortat also hasn't shown a history of being injury prone.

Edit: Also, there's a good chance Asik will be on the market if the Rockets can't find suitable minutes for him. Asik's a better defender and rebounder, and makes $4 million plus less than the Warriors. Golden State probably would have had to give up some pieces in the process, a pick or two and maybe Barnes or another young guy, but it could have worked out for both teams.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 12:11 AM
I'll say it again for those who don't like the contract who should the warriors have signed instead?

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 12:12 AM
How about Gortat? He's pretty much the same age as Bogut (slightly older), but he hasn't logged nearly as many minutes and has played and thrived in an up-tempo style offense like the Warriors play. He's not quite the defender or rebounder Bogut is, but he's certainly no slouch, and he's got a far more versatile offensive game. He and Curry could have been an excellent pick and roll combination. Gortat also hasn't shown a history of being injury prone.

Ok a bogut for gortat straight up then?

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 12:18 AM
Ok a bogut for gortat straight up then?

What do you mean? Like a trade? Or am I saying they're equally talented? This post confuses me.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 12:21 AM
Well gortat since playing starting mins has not played in more than 66 games in a season. Also I would agree offensively it would be a plus but I think there is a major drop off defensively. The warriors don't need scoring from the center position to win. We need a big time defender and right now I don't believe there are any available. Good shot though but all in all pretty bad deal IMO.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 12:21 AM
What do you mean? Like a trade? Or am I saying they're equally talented? This post confuses me.
Sorry how would they acquire gortat?

BKLYNpigeon
10-26-2013, 12:21 AM
I have seen a lot of dumb posts, but this one probably takes the cake. There is so much wrong about this.

Klay gets his extension when Bogut expires and Barnes gets his when Iggy expires.

Plus, when Bogut was healthy he led the league in blocks and charges. I will let you process how crazy good that is defensively. Bucks were in third in defense in the entire league when Bogut was on the floor? What about off? They were the second worst defensive team in the league when he was off.

But this is the "What have you done for me recently league."

Not counting this season,

Boguts contract is for 3 years, Klay's contract expires in 2.

Iggys contract is for 5 years, Barns contract expires in 3


with this signing of Bogut. the Warriors would only have enough money to resign either Klay or Barnes. Unless they can get rid of David Lee's contract...

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 12:24 AM
Not counting this season,

Boguts contract is for 3 years, Klay's contract expires in 2.

Iggys contract is for 5 years, Barns contract expires in 3


with this signing of Bogut. the Warriors would only have enough money to resign either Klay or Barnes. Unless they can get rid of David Lee's contract...

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9247/mm5w.gif

Not updated with Bogut, but the Warriors will have zero problems retaining their players.

Hawkeye15
10-26-2013, 12:27 AM
risky deal. Great defender, horrid offensive player. But a perfect combo for his team. If he stays healthy, good for GS.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 12:30 AM
What??? This is nonsense. He averaged more than 15 points ONCE in seven seasons in the league. And I don't think he's every been a top 3 center in the NBA. Maybe for that one season 2009-2010, but I don't have the numbers in front of me and that's an exception to the rule.

Howard, Gasol, Duncan, Hibbert, Noah and Lopez are all clearly superior basketball players, and that doesn't consider players like Chandler, Asik, Cousins, Monroe, Jefferson, Pekovic, Sanders, Drummond and Gortat. I'd much rather have any of the players I just listed for a young franchise like Golden State than Bogut. Not all of those guys are good fits for the Warriors, but I'd still rather have them long-term.

You don't know what you're talking about,or maybe you didn't watch how dominant Bogut was when healthy.
Only Duncan and Howard are clearly superior than Bogut.
Gasol,Noah you can argue about.
Lopez?Healthy Bogut would destroy his soft ***.
Hibbert?Lets see him dominate more than a series without an opposing big.

All the others you mentioned are not even close.Most of them are one way players,while Bogut was preety good all-around.

amos1er
10-26-2013, 12:30 AM
Surprised West would go for this. Maybe he knows something we don't.

sunsfan88
10-26-2013, 12:32 AM
In terms of value for centers in this league, it's not a bad deal. That being said, I still hate it. You just gave $36 million guaranteed for three years to a player who played 44 total games the last two seasons and hasn't played 70 games in a season since 2008. That's (at the very least) $12 million per year to a guy who played less than 25 minutes a game a season ago, posted his third consecutive season of a sub .500 TS% (horrible for ANY player, much less a center) and has seen his PER each season from 20.7 in 2010 to only 13.8 a year ago.

.
Yea I agree I think that's why I also don't think this is the right move. Warriors fans will say that his injuries are all freak accidents and that he's just been unlucky but doesn't matter injury prone or unlucky, bottom line is that he still misses games and is not dependable.

He's likely to miss at least 15-25 games per season. That's horrible at this amount of $$.

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 12:32 AM
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9247/mm5w.gif

Not updated with Bogut, but the Warriors will have zero problems retaining their players.

Based on that chart, it looks like Thompson is a RFA in 2015. I'm not sure that's the case or not, but if it is, that contract COULD potentially impact Thompson's signing. With Bogut's deal, they'll already have four guys making $10+ million that season, and those four guys will be making roughly $50-52 million by themselves. Assuming Thompson gets at least $10 million (a likely assumption) and they add another $10-$15 million in salaries on top of that, that would easily push Golden State over the soft cap and probably force their ownership to start paying some pretty damn steep tax penalties.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 12:32 AM
risky deal. Great defender, horrid offensive player. But a perfect combo for his team. If he stays healthy, good for GS.
No,he is not.

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 12:33 AM
Based on that chart, it looks like Thompson is a RFA in 2015. I'm not sure that's the case or not, but if it is, that contract COULD potentially impact Thompson's signing. With Bogut's deal, they'll already have four guys making $10+ million that season, and those four guys will be making roughly $50-52 million by themselves. Assuming Thompson gets at least $10 million (a likely assumption) and they add another $10-$15 million in salaries on top of that, that would easily push Golden State over the soft cap and probably force their ownership to start paying some pretty damn steep tax penalties.

Which they have no problem paying. In fact, Bogut said his deal was set up so the Warriors can keep Klay when the time comes.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 12:34 AM
Yea I agree I think that's why I also don't think this is the right move. Warriors fans will say that his injuries are all freak accidents and that he's just been unlucky but doesn't matter injury prone or unlucky, bottom line is that he still misses games and is not dependable.

He's likely to miss at least 15-25 games per season. That's horrible at this amount of $$.


Who should the warriors sign instead please don't say Gortat?

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 12:40 AM
I wouldn't take much of anything sunsfan88 says seriously. He says a lot of extremely ridiculous things all the time.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 12:42 AM
risky deal. Great defender, horrid offensive player. But a perfect combo for his team. If he stays healthy, good for GS.

Horrid offensive player how? One of the most varied post games of any center, has a solid outside jumper. His last two healthy years he had a 58% and 55% TS.

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 12:44 AM
We will see how he does on offense now that he is healthy. He can knock down jump shots in practice again, but that is a lot different then a game.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 12:44 AM
Horrid offensive player how? One of the most varied post games of any center, has a solid outside jumper. His last two healthy years he had a 58% and 56% TS.
And the best passing center not named Gasol or Noah.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 12:45 AM
Before the elbow injury he had a pretty respectable 15 footer if I recall and a nice hook shot. FAR from "horrid" on offense IMO. Since the injury his O has struggled but I have faith in him.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 12:46 AM
I'm in love with this Warriors team they have balance all around could be players for a long time I could see eventually them trying to trade for Kevin Love maybe offer up Thompson and Lee for Love and another guard. I love Thompson but Kevin Love would really make them a much better team you can find guards a lot easier then you can find a Stretch 4 who is a top 3 rebounder in the NBA.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 12:46 AM
And the best passing center not named Gasol or Noah.

Like I said... He has less holes in his game than maybe ANY center in the NBA including Dwight. He's above average at literally everything pretty much. Scoring, rebounding, passing and especially defense.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 12:47 AM
I wouldn't take much of anything sunsfan88 says seriously. He says a lot of extremely ridiculous things all the time.

I'm mean I get what people are saying about games played and yada yada but don't just come in say bad signing and leave without a logical alternative. It's like me saying lebron James is not a good player and the very next post would be either WHY is he not a good player or I would just get laughed at. I honestly think the warriors had to make this deal bc there were no other options... So they took the risk end of story. Damned if you do damned if you don't kinda thing.

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 12:48 AM
You don't know what you're talking about,or maybe you didn't watch how dominant Bogut was when healthy.
Only Duncan and Howard are clearly superior than Bogut.
Gasol,Noah you can argue about.
Lopez?Healthy Bogut would destroy his soft ***.
Hibbert?Lets see him dominate more than a series without an opposing big.

All the others you mentioned are not even close.Most of them are one way players,while Bogut was preety good all-around.

lol.... Do YOU know what you're talking about? You're just speaking in vague generalizations, but the numbers back me up. Bogut had one really good season as an elite center in 2009-2010, but statistically, every other one of his seasons are representative of an average-above average center. And the weird thing is that he's never come CLOSE to putting up that kind of production, neither before or after that season.

If you have one great season in eight years, that's not your norm, that's an aberration. It was a fluke. Gasol and Noah are unquestionably better than Bogut, because their numbers the last few years have been similar to Bogut, they've been more consistent and they haven't missed huge chunks of time. Hibbert hasn't efficient offensively, but he beasted in the playoffs and he's been far more consistent and healthier than Bogut. Chandler is just better. He's superior in pretty much every aspect, regardless of his lack of offensive range.

Then you've got guys like Jefferson and Lopez, who are obviously inferior defensively, but are so superior offensively that I'd take them over Bogut. Then there's Asik, who is better defensively and an absolute superior rebounder, and Gortat, who is just more balanced overall . Guys like Drummond, Monroe and Cousins are less reliable than Bogut, but have far more upside in the long term.

Basically, there's at least 7-8 centers I'd rather have than a healthy Bogut. And if we're talking long term, there's easily a dozen centers I'd rather have. Take off your homer glasses and look at the guy objectively.

sunsfan88
10-26-2013, 12:49 AM
Who should the warriors sign instead please don't say Gortat?

Why not? Bogut when healthy is better than Gortat but not by so much that Gortat's durability doesn't make up the difference in play between the two. Even then Bogut might have a tad bit more value but not by much.

And there are other guys, Sam Dalembert, Chris Kaman, trade for Omer Asik etc who can be good for them.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 12:50 AM
7-8 better centers than a healthy Bogut lol? No.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 12:50 AM
I laughed at the Gasol Noah you can argue about haha argue about it? He's not even close to either of them. Bogut used to be better then Noah like 5 years ago not anymore.

sunsfan88
10-26-2013, 12:50 AM
I wouldn't take much of anything sunsfan88 says seriously. He says a lot of extremely ridiculous things all the time.
Yea because you only say things that are very knowledgeable right?

Doesn't your own fan base hate you? I remember going in there once and everyone was bashing you lmao.

You and DoMeFavors are the biggest trolls/idiots of the PSD. I may be a bad poster but you of all posters have no right to tell me that.

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 12:52 AM
Like I said... He has less holes in his game than maybe ANY center in the NBA including Dwight. He's above average at literally everything pretty much. Scoring, rebounding, passing and especially defense.

Again, you keep bring up scoring. What evidence do you have to back up that Bogut is a decent scorer? He's not. Also, Marc Gasol is clearly a far more well-rounded player, as are all the guys I've mentioned in previous posts. You act as if Bogut has a legitimate offensive game, when that hasn't been the case in four years.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 12:53 AM
Yea because you only say things that are very knowledgeable right?

Doesn't your own fan base hate you? I remember going in there once and everyone was bashing you lmao.

You and DoMeFavors are the biggest trolls/idiots of the PSD. I may be a bad poster but you of all posters have no right to tell me that.

What ever happen to DOMEFAVORS? did he finally get the balls to leave after saying he'd leave the forum if the Bulls beat the Nets but then used the excuse because Bulls fans were mean to him he didn't have to keep his word little *****.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 12:54 AM
Boss you said Bogut hasn't been able to replicate that season but there is a reason. That injury to his shooting arm is one so severe to where he had to completely change his shooting form and game in general. It's not surprising that it would take 2-3 years to retrain yourself and given that he hasn't stayed healthy since, it's not a big shocker.

Even IF he's just an average offensive center and is good for 12 ppg on solid efficiency he's STILL a top 5 center minimum given his rebounding, defense and passing. Not sure if you remember how the center crop is looking now. Lots of young guys coming up but all of them outside of Drummond have HUGE holes in their game. Cousins is the worst defensive center in the NBA quite possibly. Monroe is a mediocre defender and rebounder. List goes on. Dwight, Hibbert and Gasol are his only competition if healthy.

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 12:55 AM
No,he is not.

Prove it! Provide ANY kind of evidence to back up your claim that he's a decent offensive player! People keep saying it, but have provided no statistical evidence whatever to back that nonsense up.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 12:55 AM
lol.... Do YOU know what you're talking about? You're just speaking in vague generalizations, but the numbers back me up. Bogut had one really good season as an elite center in 2009-2010, but statistically, every other one of his seasons are representative of an average-above average center. And the weird thing is that he's never come CLOSE to putting up that kind of production, neither before or after that season.

If you have one great season in eight years, that's not your norm, that's an aberration. It was a fluke. Gasol and Noah are unquestionably better than Bogut, because their numbers the last few years have been similar to Bogut, they've been more consistent and they haven't missed huge chunks of time. Hibbert hasn't efficient offensively, but he beasted in the playoffs and he's been far more consistent and healthier than Bogut. Chandler is just better. He's superior in pretty much every aspect, regardless of his lack of offensive range.

Then you've got guys like Jefferson and Lopez, who are obviously inferior defensively, but are so superior offensively that I'd take them over Bogut. Then there's Asik, who is better defensively and an absolute superior rebounder, and Gortat, who is just more balanced overall . Guys like Drummond, Monroe and Cousins are less reliable than Bogut, but have far more upside in the long term.

Basically, there's at least 7-8 centers I'd rather have than a healthy Bogut. And if we're talking long term, there's easily a dozen centers I'd rather have. Take off your homer glasses and look at the guy objectively.

I thought we were talking about healthy Bogut.

So..you'd rather have Asik,Chandler,Lopez,Jefferson,Gortat instead of HEALTHY Bogut?
Sorry,but he is a better overall player than all of those.Not to mention he fits perfectly with the team.

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 12:58 AM
I agree with MBT - and he didn't even bring up the pseudocenters in Al Horford, Anthony Davis, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol... also didn't bring up younger guys like Valanciunas and Vucevic.

People have to stop saying Bogut's a top-anything when healthy. I'd be a top center in the NBA if I was 7' tall, but i'm never gonna be 7' tall. Just like Bogut's gonna struggle every season to play half the games. So, just like it's stupid of me to say "i'd be the fastest man in the world if I could run" or "the best C if I was 7 feet tall and could shoot" ... it's just as stupid to say Bogut, when healthy, is anything but a defensive anchor in which there are a handful of better ones in the league (Noah, Gasol, Hibbert, Sanders, Howard, Asik, Duncan)

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 01:00 AM
Why not? Bogut when healthy is better than Gortat but not by so much that Gortat's durability doesn't make up the difference in play between the two. Even then Bogut might have a tad bit more value but not by much.

And there are other guys, Sam Dalembert, Chris Kaman, trade for Omer Asik etc who can be good for them.

The first one I'll laugh but I guess Omer Asik might be intriguing don't know if the warriors would do a deal to Houston though seeing how they will prob be contending against each other. Sam I have no comment on and Kaman is ok what does he make now though? 8 to 10 mill?

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 01:00 AM
Boss you said Bogut hasn't been able to replicate that season but there is a reason. That injury to his shooting arm is one so severe to where he had to completely change his shooting form and game in general. It's not surprising that it would take 2-3 years to retrain yourself and given that he hasn't stayed healthy since, it's not a big shocker.
Excuses, excuses, excuses. I don't see a lot of fact in this argument.


Even IF he's just an average offensive center and is good for 12 ppg on solid efficiency he's STILL a top 5 center minimum given his rebounding, defense and passing. Not sure if you remember how the center crop is looking now. Lots of young guys coming up but all of them outside of Drummond have HUGE holes in their game. Cousins is the worst defensive center in the NBA quite possibly. Monroe is a mediocre defender and rebounder. List goes on. Dwight, Hibbert and Gasol are his only competition if healthy.
Again, he's NOT an average offensive center and he DOESN'T provide solid efficiency. The guy hasn't topped a 50% TS% in four years, which is god awful for any player, much less a center. THAT is the huge hole in the game.

Christ, you guys keep talking about him as some insanely balanced, well rounded center without noticing the massive elephant in the room. You see that elephant crushing your recliner, ******** on your carpet and eating all the Halloween candy on the counter? That's Bogut's ****** offensive game! Pay attention to him!

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 01:02 AM
I agree with MBT - and he didn't even bring up the pseudocenters in Al Horford, Anthony Davis, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol... also didn't bring up younger guys like Valanciunas and Vucevic.
Exactly! There were plenty of players I could have brought up that I avoided to give Bogut the best possible chance and he still wouldn't crack my top 10.


People have to stop saying Bogut's a top-anything when healthy. I'd be a top center in the NBA if I was 7' tall, but i'm never gonna be 7' tall. Just like Bogut's gonna struggle every season to play half the games. So, just like it's stupid of me to say "i'd be the fastest man in the world if I could run" or "the best C if I was 7 feet tall and could shoot" ... it's just as stupid to say Bogut, when healthy, is anything but a defensive anchor in which there are a handful of better ones in the league (Noah, Gasol, Hibbert, Sanders, Howard, Asik, Duncan)
Shammny knows his ****. Everybody listen to this man!

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:03 AM
Howard, Duncan, Gasol, Noah, Hibbert, Lopez, Jefferson, Asik, Nikola Vucevic, Bynum, Cousins, Chris Bosh, Horford, Nikola Pekovic, Jonas Valanciunas before I'd take before Bogut now that I actually put some thought in it and I'd have Greg Monroe on the list but I think he's going to regress because Detroit decided to once again be one of the worst organizations when it comes to free agents by signing Josh Smith to play SF one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of because now he's going to shoot jump shots all day and have a huge usg% but be ****ing awful I feel so bad for Monroe he deserves better then that ****. But even with Josh being awful Monroe probably is still better then Bogut but it might not show on the stats.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 01:04 AM
Maybe I'm being nostalgic here... but I think a healthy Bogut can get back to 3-4 years ago levels in which I said he had 58 and nearly 56 TS in back to back years, far from terrible. I'm not judging him on the last couple years for obvious reasons (plagued with injuries). I'd take Bogut over any center in the NBA besides Dwight, Gasol and MAYBE Hibbert IF he returns to that level of play.

As it's been said here prior to the freak elbow injury the guy played what 78 games at least every year? He isn't "injury prone" IMO, which is why I expect a bounce back. Few freak injuries, I'm not giving up on him yet. He looked outstanding defensively last year in the playoffs, after not having played for months. Like flat out dominant on D. He's lost 30 pounds this summer and looks ripped and much more agile.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:05 AM
I agree with MBT - and he didn't even bring up the pseudocenters in Al Horford, Anthony Davis, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol... also didn't bring up younger guys like Valanciunas and Vucevic.

People have to stop saying Bogut's a top-anything when healthy. I'd be a top center in the NBA if I was 7' tall, but i'm never gonna be 7' tall. Just like Bogut's gonna struggle every season to play half the games. So, just like it's stupid of me to say "i'd be the fastest man in the world if I could run" or "the best C if I was 7 feet tall and could shoot" ... it's just as stupid to say Bogut, when healthy, is anything but a defensive anchor in which there are a handful of better ones in the league (Noah, Gasol, Hibbert, Sanders, Howard, Asik, Duncan)
Can you prove that Bogut will struggle every season from now on?

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 01:09 AM
I thought we were talking about healthy Bogut.

So..you'd rather have Asik,Chandler,Lopez,Jefferson,Gortat instead of HEALTHY Bogut?
Sorry,but he is a better overall player than all of those.Not to mention he fits perfectly with the team.
Anytime you have to qualify a player with "healthy" in front of his name, that player is automatically nowhere near as good as you think he is. If we're going that far, I'd like to add a "healthy" Andrew Bynum to the list of players that are better than Bogut. Hell, a "healthy" Andrew Bynum might be the best center in the NBA.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:09 AM
Excuses, excuses, excuses. I don't see a lot of fact in this argument.


Again, he's NOT an average offensive center and he DOESN'T provide solid efficiency. The guy hasn't topped a 50% TS% in four years, which is god awful for any player, much less a center. THAT is the huge hole in the game.

Christ, you guys keep talking about him as some insanely balanced, well rounded center without noticing the massive elephant in the room. You see that elephant crushing your recliner, ******** on your carpet and eating all the Halloween candy on the counter? That's Bogut's ****** offensive game! Pay attention to him!
Talk us into how you'd take Asik instead of Bogut now.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:09 AM
Can you prove that Bogut will struggle every season from now on?

reading comprehension can go a long ways my friend.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:11 AM
Talk us into how you'd take Asik instead of Bogut now.

It's easy Asik in my opinion is the best defensive and rebounding Center in the NBA. I've seen the guy stay on guards on the perimeter when he played for the Bulls when you're that good defensively you can lack offense and I'd be ok with it he really improved last year offensively I don't see why you wouldn't want Asik over Bogut for your team it's not like you need offense over the best defense anyway.

Not sure why you're getting so angry if I was you I'd have no problem taking better players over yours I love Deng but I'd rather have quite a few SF over him even though I know how important he is. I'd love to have Kevin Love even if it meant losing assets I hold very dearly like Mirotic the euro MVP CHA Bobcats pick which could be a top 3 pick given MJs ownership. There is nothing good about being such a fan of your team you're thinking your guy is better then players clearly better then him. Bogut is a solid player but he's in the 13-15 range of centers .

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 01:12 AM
Maybe I'm being nostalgic here... but I think a healthy Bogut can get back to 3-4 years ago levels in which I said he had 58 and nearly 56 TS in back to back years, far from terrible. I'm not judging him on the last couple years for obvious reasons (plagued with injuries). I'd take Bogut over any center in the NBA besides Dwight, Gasol and MAYBE Hibbert IF he returns to that level of play.

As it's been said here prior to the freak elbow injury the guy played what 78 games at least every year? He isn't "injury prone" IMO, which is why I expect a bounce back. Few freak injuries, I'm not giving up on him yet. He looked outstanding defensively last year in the playoffs, after not having played for months. Like flat out dominant on D. He's lost 30 pounds this summer and looks ripped and much more agile.

Crazier things have happened - it's possible, i just don't buy it. Hell - even if Bogut plays like a top-10 center and remains healthy, the Warriors still might not be the best team out of the West (not saying I would bet against them). Then you're counting on Bogut being that productive again for another year, and then for an additional one on the wrong side of 30. Chances are thinner than a slim jim that we'll look back on this deal and say "Warriors made a great move by giving him that contract."


Can you prove that Bogut will struggle every season from now on?

Can you prove that he won't?
If I struggle with math in 1st grade, 2nd grade, 4th grade, 6th grade, 7th grade, and 8th grade... Would you not say that I will continue to struggle with it being that i sucked at it 75% of the time my entire life?

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 01:13 AM
Maybe I'm being nostalgic here... but I think a healthy Bogut can get back to 3-4 years ago levels in which I said he had 58 and nearly 56 TS in back to back years, far from terrible. I'm not judging him on the last couple years for obvious reasons (plagued with injuries). I'd take Bogut over any center in the NBA besides Dwight, Gasol and MAYBE Hibbert IF he returns to that level of play.

As it's been said here prior to the freak elbow injury the guy played what 78 games at least every year? He isn't "injury prone" IMO, which is why I expect a bounce back. Few freak injuries, I'm not giving up on him yet. He looked outstanding defensively last year in the playoffs, after not having played for months. Like flat out dominant on D. He's lost 30 pounds this summer and looks ripped and much more agile.

What? The guy has played 78+ games in a season twice in eight years and hasn't done that since 2008. He's played less than half of the games in a season in three of the past five years and has missed at least 13 games the last five seasons and six of the last seven seasons. That seems like the very definition of injury prone.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:15 AM
reading comprehension can go a long ways my friend.

Yeah,so can logic.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 01:18 AM
It's got heated in here I made my point. The kitchen is to hot for me! I'm out!

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:18 AM
Yeah,so can logic.

Hmm still nothing eh? Whats next is your guys back up PF top 10? stop being a homer and instead of putting all this strength into defending a player clearly not top caliber put that effort into learning stats so you don't have to take cheap shots in debates.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:19 AM
It's easy Asik in my opinion is the best defensive and rebounding Center in the NBA. I've seen the guy stay on guards on the perimeter when he played for the Bulls when you're that good defensively you can lack offense and I'd be ok with it he really improved last year offensively I don't see why you wouldn't want Asik over Bogut for your team it's not like you need offense over the best defense anyway.

Not sure why you're getting so angry if I was you I'd have no problem taking better players over yours I love Deng but I'd rather have quite a few SF over him even though I know how important he is. I'd love to have Kevin Love even if it meant losing assets I hold very dearly like Mirotic the euro MVP CHA Bobcats pick which could be a top 3 pick given MJs ownership. There is nothing good about being such a fan of your team you're thinking your guy is better then players clearly better then him. Bogut is a solid player but he's in the 13-15 range of centers .

You're wrong.Healthy Bogut is clearly better than most of these players mentioned.

Also,Mirotic is NOT the euro MVP.:p

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 01:19 AM
Talk us into how you'd take Asik instead of Bogut now.

Asik was second in the entire NBA in TRB% last season, is a superior defender to Bogut at this point in their careers, is two years younger and has logged far fewer minutes than Bogut, and was even far more efficient offensively last year. The only thing I think you might give Bogut an edge in is maybe offensively. But if there's an edge there, it's only assuming the best case scenario of a "healthy" Bogut and is not based whatsoever on his production the last three seasons.

Asik is a better NBA center until proven otherwise.

tredigs
10-26-2013, 01:20 AM
There's too many question marks and speculation for anyone to make an informative argument here.

All I will say is that the first time I saw him close to full health was during the playoffs last season (probably 80%), and he was huge. Now that he's 100% for the first time in over a year and a half, I'm expecting much more fluid footwork and a better post game as a result. We already know that he can pass and protect the paint + rebound when he's out there, so the rest is gravy. I'm generally tepid on expectations, but I'd predict 13/11/2.5 and 2+ blocks in 30-32 mpg for Bogut this year. His paint protection is already looking elite in preseason. I'm expecting him to be looking forward to shutting a few people up this year. He's only 28 and is fortunate not to have lingering back or knee issues, he's in a pretty good spot right now.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 01:23 AM
What? The guy has played 78+ games in a season twice in eight years and hasn't done that since 2008. He's played less than half of the games in a season in three of the past five years and has missed at least 13 games the last five seasons and six of the last seven seasons. That seems like the very definition of injury prone.

Okay he averaged 67 games prior to the last 3 years with the string of injuries. Take away the 36 game season in which he suffered another "freak injury" and the dude has averaged about 73 in 5 of his first 6 seasons. Not terribly by any means, although I was going off memory and admit my fault in saying 78. It's really hard physically on 7 footers to stay healthy in this game and 73 average is pretty damn solid.

http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Warriors-Andrew-Bogut-has-freaky-injury-history-3445986.php

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:24 AM
Can you prove that he won't?
If I struggle with math in 1st grade, 2nd grade, 4th grade, 6th grade, 7th grade, and 8th grade... Would you not say that I will continue to struggle with it being that i sucked at it 75% of the time my entire life?
you said that "if i was 7' tall i would be the best" related to "if Bogut is healthy"?
You think that's a logic argument?you have never been,and never will be 7 ft.Bogut has been healthy before and it is possible he will be again.

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 01:26 AM
you said that "if i was 7' tall i would be the best" related to "if Bogut is healthy"?
You think that's a logic argument?you have never been,and never will be 7 ft.Bogut has been healthy before and it is possible he will be again.

It's also possible that i'll sleep with Mila Kunis tonight.


I'm cool with people having faith in Bogut staying healthy, but arguing that he's a top-center is pointless when he HAS to be healthy to be one, and he's off the court more than he's on.

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 01:27 AM
There's too many question marks and speculation for anyone to make an informative argument here.

All I will say is that the first time I saw him close to full health was during the playoffs last season (probably 80%), and he was huge. Now that he's 100% for the first time in over a year and a half, I'm expecting much more fluid footwork and a better post game as a result. We already know that he can pass and protect the paint + rebound when he's out there, so the rest is gravy. I'm generally tepid on expectations, but I'd predict 13/11/2.5 and 2+ blocks in 30-32 mpg for Bogut this year. His paint protection is already looking elite in preseason. I'm expecting him to be looking forward to shutting a few people up this year. He's only 28 and is fortunate not to have lingering back or knee issues, he's in a pretty good spot right now.

To put up that kind of production, he'd have to play probably 34-35 minutes per game. I just don't see that happening, especially for a Golden State team that will want him healthy for the playoffs. I wouldn't rule out a double double, but I think something like 8/9/2/2 is far more likely on the 28-32 minutes he'll probably get per game.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:29 AM
There's too many question marks and speculation for anyone to make an informative argument here.

All I will say is that the first time I saw him close to full health was during the playoffs last season (probably 80%), and he was huge. Now that he's 100% for the first time in over a year and a half, I'm expecting much more fluid footwork and a better post game as a result. We already know that he can pass and protect the paint + rebound when he's out there, so the rest is gravy. I'm generally tepid on expectations, but I'd predict 13/11/2.5 and 2+ blocks in 30-32 mpg for Bogut this year. His paint protection is already looking elite in preseason. I'm expecting him to be looking forward to shutting a few people up this year. He's only 28 and is fortunate not to have lingering back or knee issues, he's in a pretty good spot right now.
Exactly..And if he produces that numbers you mentioned,with good efficiency,and elite paint protection,he is definitely a top 3-5 center in the league.

Clippersfan86
10-26-2013, 01:30 AM
I think Bogut was about on par with Dwight as a defensive anchor. I still can't believe how bad he was snubbed on votes in 2011 when he led the NBA in shotblocking and was a SUPREME rim protector.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/670447-dwight-howard-and-andrew-bogut-a-tale-of-two-2011-all-nba-defensive-centers

Pretty interesting read here on that topic, although I'm sure people will just gripe and pick it apart.


"Howard, by choice, tries to intimidate opponents by rejecting shots into the expensive seats. A quick estimate says that half of Howard's "defensive plays" force possession change, compared to about 75 percent of Bogut's."

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:33 AM
It's also possible that i'll sleep with Mila Kunis tonight.


I'm cool with people having faith in Bogut staying healthy, but arguing that he's a top-center is pointless when he HAS to be healthy to be one, and he's off the court more than he's on.

If she knew how good at PSD you are she'd leave Ashton and **** you tonight

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:34 AM
To put up that kind of production, he'd have to play probably 34-35 minutes per game. I just don't see that happening, especially for a Golden State team that will want him healthy for the playoffs. I wouldn't rule out a double double, but I think something like 8/9/2/2 is far more likely on the 28-32 minutes he'll probably get per game.

He produced 7/11/2/1,5 in 27 minutes in last years playoffs,after being injured for that much time.Now that he had a full summer to work,and looks in great shape,you predict he will be worse?goooood....

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 01:34 AM
For his career, Bogut has played in 440 regular season games out of a possible 640 games. That's 68.75% of the games, which equates to 56.375 games per season = meaning Bogut misses ~26games annually.


Just pointing that out.

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 01:35 AM
If she knew how good at PSD you are she'd leave Ashton and **** you tonight

I'm pretty sure my gf would approve of that herself if it was at all possible :laugh2:

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:37 AM
It's also possible that i'll sleep with Mila Kunis tonight.


I'm cool with people having faith in Bogut staying healthy, but arguing that he's a top-center is pointless when he HAS to be healthy to be one, and he's off the court more than he's on.
The argument about him being a top-center started ASSUMING he will be healthy though.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:39 AM
Exactly..And if he produces that numbers you mentioned,with good efficiency,and elite paint protection,he is definitely a top 3-5 center in the league.

He hasn't been that guy in a long time though I like Bogut I think he's a very solid all around Center can pass, defend, has some offense just a jack of all trades guy but at this point in his career I'm not so sure he'll ever be the 540 ts 520 efg 18 trb 6 blk% and 12 ast% again he'll probably still be the trb, ast, blk guy but I don't think he'll ever be the scorer he was when he was 25 there isn't a time I talk about Carlos Boozer that I don't wish he didn't have so many injuries earlier in his career and he's no where near the explosive PF he was when he was 25 guys with injury pasts and presents lose a lot of what made them so great he'll be serviceable much like Boozer but the top 5 range has past them.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:40 AM
I'm pretty sure my gf would approve of that herself if it was at all possible :laugh2:

My gf and I have a contract that if I ever get with Kate Upton or Mila it's ok and if she gets with the only guy I let her be with Bill Gates I get a billion dollars and she can go away. I like those chances better then Bogut being a top 3 center ever again I'm sure Vegas would take those odds as well. I'd buy Arian Foster stock before that ****.

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 01:41 AM
He produced 7/11/2/1,5 in 27 minutes in last years playoffs,after being injured for that much time.Now that he had a full summer to work,and looks in great shape,you predict he will be worse?goooood....

Sample size, bro. Sample size. In his entire career, he's averaged 11 rebounds per game only once and averaged more than 13 points per game only twice. Those seasons required Bogut to player 32-35 minutes per game. I can see Bogut maybe coming close to 32, but not 35. Like I said, something like 8/9/2/2 is far more likely in the 28-32 minutes per game that he'll be playing.

goku
10-26-2013, 01:43 AM
Bogut is absolutely a top 3 Center when healthy. Anything else is nonsense.

that's bogus

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 01:44 AM
The argument about him being a top-center started ASSUMING he will be healthy though.

And my entire point is that it's a meaningless debate, which is where that 7' shammy analogy came in

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:45 AM
Sample size, bro. Sample size. In his entire career, he's averaged 11 rebounds per game only once and averaged more than 13 points per game only twice. Those seasons required Bogut to player 32-35 minutes per game. I can see Bogut maybe coming close to 32, but not 35. Like I said, something like 8/9/2/2 is far more likely in the 28-32 minutes per game that he'll be playing.I'd bet anything that if he stays healthy and plays 70+ games he will be better than that.Maybe,i am being a homer,but everything points out to a big comeback season for him.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:47 AM
And my entire point is that it's a meaningless debate, which is where that 7' shammy analogy came in

How is it meaningless?what chances % do you think he has at a healthy season?

beasted86
10-26-2013, 01:48 AM
I have seen a lot of dumb posts, but this one probably takes the cake. There is so much wrong about this.

Klay gets his extension when Bogut expires and Barnes gets his when Iggy expires.

Plus, when Bogut was healthy he led the league in blocks and charges. I will let you process how crazy good that is defensively. Bucks were in third in defense in the entire league when Bogut was on the floor? What about off? They were the second worst defensive team in the league when he was off.

But this is the "What have you done for me recently league."

Klay Thompson's contract if re-signed will start in 2015/16 only the 2nd year of Bogut's new deal.

The Warriors will have roughly $52M tied up between Bogut, Lee, Iggy, and Curry... and will have re-sign Thompson as well as fill out the rest of the team. The following year they will have to possibly extend Lee and re-sign Barnes at the same time.

I don't know what management was doing bidding against themselves in the contract, but it is what it is. Let the Warriors management and fans worry about it. Because I don't see that team as a championship team and that's a lot of money for a non-championship team. THe only way they become a championship team is if Barnes and Thompson really develop a lot further and become near all-star two way players... and if that was the case, then they surely wouldn't be able to keep the team together without going into the mega-tax.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 01:50 AM
Klay Thompson's contract if re-signed will start in 2015/16 only the 2nd year of Bogut's new deal.

The Warriors will have roughly $52M tied up between Bogut, Lee, Iggy, and Curry... and will have re-sign Thompson as well as fill out the rest of the team. The following year they will have to possibly extend Lee and re-sign Barnes at the same time.

I don't know what management was doing bidding against themselves in the contract, but it is what it is. Let the Warriors management and fans worry about it. Because I don't see that team as a championship team and that's a lot of money for a non-championship team.
I can see Lee and his contract getting traded some time.

tredigs
10-26-2013, 01:51 AM
Sample size, bro. Sample size. In his entire career, he's averaged 11 rebounds per game only once and averaged more than 13 points per game only twice. Those seasons required Bogut to player 32-35 minutes per game. I can see Bogut maybe coming close to 32, but not 35. Like I said, something like 8/9/2/2 is far more likely in the 28-32 minutes per game that he'll be playing.

12 and 9 is his career average, which includes the 28 mpg from his rookie year and 24 mpg rehabilitating on the job last year. Every other season he's averaged >30 mpg and a double double. I'm not going to bother getting caught up in the per-game stats though, I'm just thrilled to see a healthy Bogut out there providing elite paint protection. HUGE for the Warriors, especially against teams like the Rockets.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 01:54 AM
I can see Lee and his contract getting traded some time.

That is a big assumption considering next year he'll be making 15 mil and the year after that not a lot of people are going to want to play David Lee 15 million dollars he could get traded his last year as an expiring but you'd be taking on a big contract that isn't expiring and it would be moot. But I could see a trade involving Lee and Thompson or maybe Barnes if he really turns into a borderline all star type player and trading for a PF like Love or Alridge.

goku
10-26-2013, 01:55 AM
Warriors resigned Bogus cause there was no better option out there 7 centers are under contract that they would take over him

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 01:57 AM
How is it meaningless?what chances % do you think he has at a healthy season?

Define healthy season. How many games would you constitute healthy?

tredigs
10-26-2013, 02:02 AM
Klay Thompson's contract if re-signed will start in 2015/16 only the 2nd year of Bogut's new deal.

The Warriors will have roughly $52M tied up between Bogut, Lee, Iggy, and Curry... and will have re-sign Thompson as well as fill out the rest of the team. The following year they will have to possibly extend Lee and re-sign Barnes at the same time.

I don't know what management was doing bidding against themselves in the contract, but it is what it is. Let the Warriors management and fans worry about it. Because I don't see that team as a championship team and that's a lot of money for a non-championship team. THe only way they become a championship team is if Barnes and Thompson really develop a lot further and become near all-star two way players... and if that was the case, then they surely wouldn't be able to keep the team together without going into the mega-tax.

Bogut's deal is frontloaded in order to maintain flexibility for Barnes and Thompson going forward if they go that route (who they just exercised the 3rd and 4th year options on today as well). D. Lee's likely the one who gets moved in 2016 when he's an expiring, but having Bogut/Curry/Iggy/Barnes all already under contract 3 years from now for <40 mil is a very good place to be (a much better place than the 43 million owed to Bosh + Wade 3 years from now, for example). I'm liking the direction they're moving.

WARRIORS@GR
10-26-2013, 02:26 AM
Define healthy season. How many games would you constitute healthy?70+

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 02:50 AM
Yea because you only say things that are very knowledgeable right?

Doesn't your own fan base hate you? I remember going in there once and everyone was bashing you lmao.

You and DoMeFavors are the biggest trolls/idiots of the PSD. I may be a bad poster but you of all posters have no right to tell me that.

Didn't you make a thread saying the Browns were tanking because they traded a ****** runningback for a first rounder and then they proceeded to win three games in a row and were only stopped once Hoyer got injured.

Literally everything you said is full of ****. You make a living off of being wrong.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 02:52 AM
70+

He hasn't played 70+ games since he was 23 and has done it twice in 8 years I'm guessing 50-53 games.

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 02:53 AM
Asik was second in the entire NBA in TRB% last season, is a superior defender to Bogut at this point in their careers, is two years younger and has logged far fewer minutes than Bogut, and was even far more efficient offensively last year. The only thing I think you might give Bogut an edge in is maybe offensively. But if there's an edge there, it's only assuming the best case scenario of a "healthy" Bogut and is not based whatsoever on his production the last three seasons.

Asik is a better NBA center until proven otherwise.


The only time Bogut was fully healthy this year was the playoffs and the Warriors were seven points better defensively with him on the floor. He looked like a monster when he was finally playing at full strength. His conditioning looks even better this year.

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 02:54 AM
He hasn't played 70+ games since he was 23 and has done it twice in 8 years I don't see him playing more then 50.

Doesn't really matter imo. All he has to do is be healthy for the playoffs. If he misses games in the regular season to accomplish that I see no loss.

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 02:55 AM
Anyways, rumor has it that four other teams were interested in offering Bogut big time money next off season. If you guys care about that sort of thing.

beasted86
10-26-2013, 03:00 AM
Bogut's deal is frontloaded in order to maintain flexibility for Barnes and Thompson going forward if they go that route (who they just exercised the 3rd and 4th year options on today as well). D. Lee's likely the one who gets moved in 2016 when he's an expiring, but having Bogut/Curry/Iggy/Barnes all already under contract 3 years from now for <40 mil is a very good place to be (a much better place than the 43 million owed to Bosh + Wade 3 years from now, for example). I'm liking the direction they're moving.

We don't have Bogut's exact contract information yet so we don't know where the Warriors will be. I'll stay tuned to Sham Sports over the next couple months.

What I do know is that even if Bosh and Wade don't opt out, they would be on the final year of a 6 year max contract that saw them win at least 2 titles, and at least 3 finals trips. It was also a contract awarded at the time to 5 and 6 time respective all-stars. It was a contract based on what they did. And even if the team doesn't win another title, Arison would have to accept that paying them $43M was the cost of the success they did bring at one time.

On the other hand, the Warriors have 1 singular all-star appearance between Bogut, Curry, Iguodala, and Barnes combined. And 2 of these players were given double digit contracts based on what the team is hoping the players would do (Bogut + Curry stay healthy) rather than what they did. It also doesn't look to well of a financial position if this team can't get to the WCF (which I don't see happening in the next 3 years). It instead becomes a team that I'm trying to figure out how the heck and I going to unload two 32 year olds making double digits per year.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 03:08 AM
Doesn't really matter imo. All he has to do is be healthy for the playoffs. If he misses games in the regular season to accomplish that I see no loss.

I agree with this he needs to be kept healthy and given days off maybe sitting out a game for back to backs he needs the Bynum treatment just given a lot of games off like I said if he's healthy I'd have him play like 50-55 games and have him fresh for the playoffs.

tredigs
10-26-2013, 03:08 AM
We don't have Bogut's exact contract information yet so we don't know where the Warriors will be. I'll stay tuned to Sham Sports over the next couple months.

What I do know is that even if Bosh and Wade don't opt out, they would be on the final year of a 6 year max contract that saw them win at least 2 titles, and at least 3 finals trips. It was also a contract awarded at the time to 5 and 6 time respective all-stars. It was a contract based on what they did. And even if the team doesn't win another title, Arison would have to accept that paying them $43M was the cost of the success they did bring at one time.

On the other hand, the Warriors have 1 singular all-star appearance between Bogut, Curry, Iguodala, and Barnes combined. And 2 of these players were given double digit contracts based on what the team is hoping the players would do (Bogut + Curry stay healthy) rather than what they did. It also doesn't look to well of a financial position if this team can't get to the WCF (which I don't see happening in the next 3 years). It instead becomes a team that I'm trying to figure out how the heck and I going to unload two 32 year olds making double digits per year.
AS appearances are less than significant, they're irrelevant. The injury concerns are of course there (though being significantly overplayed at the current condition of both), but that's the risk you take when you don't hit the lottery. Trust me when I say this is by far the best situation the Warriors have been in in over 20 years. And of course they could reach the WCF in the next 3 years, they nearly did last season and that was with a rookie Barnes and no D. Lee.

This projecting and fears of injury bore me though, I'm just glad they got the contract signed (frontloaded with pt bonuses being two huge pluses) and that the season is about to be under way with everyone at 100%. The Curry deal is by far the best current (non-rookie) deal in the NBA, and it was a similar calculated risk I'm thrilled they signed off on again.

astrosmaniac
10-26-2013, 03:31 AM
Ya I know it not like Greg oden and his knees... It's was a couple crazy accidents but haters goin to hate whatever.. I just feel it a good deal just based on who would we get instead... If someone could give me a logical alternative I would seriously listen

same thing with yao. up until the last injury in his career he'd never had repeat or chronic injuries to the same part of the body; there were all different places. Didn't matter

tredigs
10-26-2013, 03:40 AM
same thing with yao. up until the last injury in his career he'd never had repeat or chronic injuries to the same part of the body; there were all different places. Didn't matter

He went through like 7 straight seasons with left foot injuries that included quite a few fractures (not to mention other issues). It was a massive recurring/chronic problem that he never properly took care of via surgery.

SugeKnight
10-26-2013, 03:49 AM
I'm in love with this Warriors team they have balance all around could be players for a long time I could see eventually them trying to trade for Kevin Love maybe offer up Thompson and Lee for Love and another guard. I love Thompson but Kevin Love would really make them a much better team you can find guards a lot easier then you can find a Stretch 4 who is a top 3 rebounder in the NBA.
I hope the wolves would do Barnes and Lee for Love and Shved.

Curry
Thompson
Iggy
Love
Bogut

That roster reminds me of the 04 pistons with a better offense and slightly worse defense

astrosmaniac
10-26-2013, 03:51 AM
He went through like 7 straight seasons with left foot injuries that included quite a few fractures (not to mention other issues). It was a massive recurring/chronic problem that he never properly took care of via surgery.

2005/2006: Big toe injury
2006/2007: Broken right knee
2007/2008: Stress fracture left foot
2008/2009: Hairline fracture left foot
2009/2010: Missed all season from prior year's injury
2010/2011: Stress fracture returned, prompting retirement

so basically they were all separate, freak injuries until the stress fracture, which he ultimately never recovered from

SugeKnight
10-26-2013, 03:54 AM
We don't have Bogut's exact contract information yet so we don't know where the Warriors will be. I'll stay tuned to Sham Sports over the next couple months.

What I do know is that even if Bosh and Wade don't opt out, they would be on the final year of a 6 year max contract that saw them win at least 2 titles, and at least 3 finals trips. It was also a contract awarded at the time to 5 and 6 time respective all-stars. It was a contract based on what they did. And even if the team doesn't win another title, Arison would have to accept that paying them $43M was the cost of the success they did bring at one time.

On the other hand, the Warriors have 1 singular all-star appearance between Bogut, Curry, Iguodala, and Barnes combined. And 2 of these players were given double digit contracts based on what the team is hoping the players would do (Bogut + Curry stay healthy) rather than what they did. It also doesn't look to well of a financial position if this team can't get to the WCF (which I don't see happening in the next 3 years). It instead becomes a team that I'm trying to figure out how the heck and I going to unload two 32 year olds making double digits per year.
They weren't that far from the wcf last season.

sunsfan88
10-26-2013, 04:06 AM
Didn't you make a thread saying the Browns were tanking because they traded a ****** runningback for a first rounder and then they proceeded to win three games in a row and were only stopped once Hoyer got injured.

Literally everything you said is full of ****. You make a living off of being wrong.
Lol yea they won some fluke games with HOFer BRIAN HOYER! Lmao!! They still suck and always will!!! So glad we gave them the idiot Norv. Please enjoy him grumpy :p :p Browns are terrible, terrible. I'm sorry for you.

And even if what your saying is actually , I'm always wrong cause I said one wrong thing? You are such a clown. Your a disgrace to the Warriors fan base. You don't deserve to be the fan of a team with Curry, Barnes, Igoudala, Thompson, Lee etc. Stick to the Browns, don't even be a fan of the Cavs, Kyrie is too good for you.

You act as if you make posts most of the time. 98% of your posts are laughable any completely idiotic. Like I sad, biggest troll/idiot of the PSD forums.

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 04:30 AM
Lol yea they won some fluke games with HOFer BRIAN HOYER! Lmao!! They still suck and always will!!! So glad we gave them the idiot Norv. Please enjoy him grumpy :p :p Browns are terrible, terrible. I'm sorry for you.

And even if what your saying is actually , I'm always wrong cause I said one wrong thing? You are such a clown. Your a disgrace to the Warriors fan base. You don't deserve to be the fan of a team with Curry, Barnes, Igoudala, Thompson, Lee etc. Stick to the Browns, don't even be a fan of the Cavs, Kyrie is too good for you.

You act as if you make posts most of the time. 98% of your posts are laughable any completely idiotic. Like I sad, biggest troll/idiot of the PSD forums.


I hope you see this post tomorrow and reflect on what you posted. And if you say you were drunk tomorrow I will give you that one.

It doesn't matter if the Browns suck, that has nothing to do with how inane your thread was.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 05:53 AM
I hope the wolves would do Barnes and Lee for Love and Shved.

Curry
Thompson
Iggy
Love
Bogut

That roster reminds me of the 04 pistons with a better offense and slightly worse defense

You don't get all stars by giving up solid rotation players unless he really gets good this year it would take Thompson no doubt about it and if I were the Warriors and felt Loves injuries were behind him I'd do the deal in a heart beat you can find guards.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 05:55 AM
2005/2006: Big toe injury
2006/2007: Broken right knee
2007/2008: Stress fracture left foot
2008/2009: Hairline fracture left foot
2009/2010: Missed all season from prior year's injury
2010/2011: Stress fracture returned, prompting retirement

so basically they were all separate, freak injuries until the stress fracture, which he ultimately never recovered from

falling over a gym bag and breaking your hand is a freak injury Broken Bones and fractures while playing sports aren't freak injuries at this point it's a trend.

Guppyfighter
10-26-2013, 06:31 AM
Thank god we have medical experts on PSD to tell us what is injury prone and what is more likely to happen because of X.

MonroeFAN
10-26-2013, 06:56 AM
GSW fans - AWESOME

The rest of the league - Wow, you guys are a team on the rise and just paid someone who couldn't stay healthy to save his life a guaranteed 12 mill a year. There was no 'good' deal to be made here. You should have let him walk and looked elsewhere, you guys most likely aren't good enough to win a championship with or without.

That's going to sound harsh, and I love your team and they're 1000000x better than the Pistons. But this is my honest opinion.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 07:28 AM
Thank god we have medical experts on PSD to tell us what is injury prone and what is more likely to happen because of X.

It has nothing to do with people acting like experts you can never predict the future all you can do is go with the odds and the odds have a guy who has only played 1 full season and 2 seasons of 70 games he's had injuries every year It's safer to assume he'll be hurt then he'll be healthy. Nobody wants someone to get hurt but odds are it will happen. It's a move Golden State kind of had to make so they just have to hope for the best.

Goose17
10-26-2013, 07:51 AM
Did anyone ever answer the question of who we should have got instead of extending him? There's nobody in free agency even close to him defensively, even when he's injured he's better than every remaining FA.

And his contract decreases annually to help with locking up Barnes and Klay.

Too much ignorance on here. Were all of you complaining about this deal also talking crap like this when we gave Curry his extension? How do you feel about that now?

Haters hate.

Hopper15
10-26-2013, 07:52 AM
Warriors couldn't afford to lose their defensive anchor. From that sense I can understand why they paid Bogut. Out of everyone the Spurs faced in the postseason last year Bogut defended Tim Duncan the toughest.

Rndy
10-26-2013, 08:22 AM
Did anyone ever answer the question of who we should have got instead of extending him? There's nobody in free agency even close to him defensively, even when he's injured he's better than every remaining FA.

And his contract decreases annually to help with locking up Barnes and Klay.

Too much ignorance on here. Were all of you complaining about this deal also talking crap like this when we gave Curry his extension? How do you feel about that now?

Haters hate.

I must have missed those posts only thing I ever said was he wasn't a top 10 center he's a good player and a great fit for Warriors I don't think he was overpaid Centers get paid in the NBA he's a jack of all trades Center.

Goose17
10-26-2013, 10:54 AM
I must have missed those posts only thing I ever said was he wasn't a top 10 center he's a good player and a great fit for Warriors I don't think he was overpaid Centers get paid in the NBA he's a jack of all trades Center.

I only read the first 4 pages, I saw Guppy destroying people and their piss weak arguments so decided just to skip the last 6 pages. I've seen people argue things like this enough times to know that no matter how good the counter-argument is, they'll never change their opinion.


I like this for three reasons;

1. If Bogut gets to 100% and stays there, he's AT LEAST a top 5 defensive big man, and that's severely underestimating his ability imo.

2. If he only manages 60-65 games it's not a big deal as long as he is healthy for the post season, he's a massive part of our success from last years playoffs, we wouldn't have made it out of the first round without him.

3. Even if this goes wrong and he sits out the entire season, that only means he doesn't get the bonus (so instead of 42 he's getting 36), the contract is front loaded so by the time Klay, Barnes and Lee are getting into negotiations the front office will have some room to play with. On top of that a few of our bench guys are on one year contracts anyway, plus we still have a TPE to sign someone else. So even if it goes wrong, it won't be a complete disaster.


And more importantly, it was a gutsy move by a front office that wouldn't have had the guts to do this before. Between drafting Barnes, Green, Ezeli. Landing Jack and Landry last year, landing Iggy this year and making a play for Dwight then extending Curry and now this? Bob Myers is starting to impress me. We've suffered from an inconsistent management for a while now, promoting him is one of the best moves Lacob ever made.

KnickaBocka.44
10-26-2013, 11:49 AM
I wouldn't take much of anything sunsfan88 says seriously. He says a lot of extremely ridiculous things all the time.

...Says the guy who claimed Battier and Novak were equal players :laugh2:

Goose17
10-26-2013, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOGYQtHmkn4

KnickaBocka.44
10-26-2013, 12:11 PM
For reasons that have already been mentioned, this is a terrible contract.

Lim
10-26-2013, 12:34 PM
Cant believe so many people are saying good deal. Lol really? extremely overpaid. Bogut is done.

tredigs
10-26-2013, 12:36 PM
I only read the first 4 pages, I saw Guppy destroying people and their piss weak arguments so decided just to skip the last 6 pages. I've seen people argue things like this enough times to know that no matter how good the counter-argument is, they'll never change their opinion.


I like this for three reasons;

1. If Bogut gets to 100% and stays there, he's AT LEAST a top 5 defensive big man, and that's severely underestimating his ability imo.

2. If he only manages 60-65 games it's not a big deal as long as he is healthy for the post season, he's a massive part of our success from last years playoffs, we wouldn't have made it out of the first round without him.

3. Even if this goes wrong and he sits out the entire season, that only means he doesn't get the bonus (so instead of 42 he's getting 36), the contract is front loaded so by the time Klay, Barnes and Lee are getting into negotiations the front office will have some room to play with. On top of that a few of our bench guys are on one year contracts anyway, plus we still have a TPE to sign someone else. So even if it goes wrong, it won't be a complete disaster.


And more importantly, it was a gutsy move by a front office that wouldn't have had the guts to do this before. Between drafting Barnes, Green, Ezeli. Landing Jack and Landry last year, landing Iggy this year and making a play for Dwight then extending Curry and now this? Bob Myers is starting to impress me. We've suffered from an inconsistent management for a while now, promoting him is one of the best moves Lacob ever made.

And this is the bottom line.

To say it's a "great contract" or a "terrible contract" is just ignorant. Like most NBA contracts, it was a calculated risk, his just a higher profile than most. Time will tell how that pans out, but it's a deal I absolutely endorse and in my opinion gives the team the best situation to advance in the playoffs. It could blow up in their face with another serious injury, but I'd still fully back the deal. And if he helps lead them in a deep playoff campaign going through teams like Memphis and/or the Rockets (which is the plan), we can enjoy watching the crow served up.

Here's to a bold management that isn't scared to take risk and aim for a title.

Monta is beast
10-26-2013, 01:19 PM
People keep saying Bogut is done? He was the second best player on our team in the playoffs at maybe 65%. Over the off-season he lost 15 lbs. how would he be able to do that if his ankle was still bothering him? He came in a month before training camp (as did the rest of the team), and hasn't done anything to his ankle yet. He said he's healthy, the warriors believe he's healthy, and when he's healthy he's a top 5 center. This deal also allows us to extend Thompson when his rookie deal ends. This is a great deal for the Warriors.

Shammyguy3
10-26-2013, 02:14 PM
70+

Then 5%.

SugeKnight
10-26-2013, 02:55 PM
You don't get all stars by giving up solid rotation players unless he really gets good this year it would take Thompson no doubt about it and if I were the Warriors and felt Loves injuries were behind him I'd do the deal in a heart beat you can find guards.
Lee is an all star. I think the timberwolves might consider it if they know love is going to leave. Barnes has a lot of upside

mjt20mik
10-26-2013, 03:47 PM
If it was something around the range of 3 years - 25 - 30 million it would have been a great deal for the Warriors. Bogut is a beast when healthy, but history hasn't dictated that he will be for a foreseeable time. Like every other no GSW fan in here, I think they definitely overspent on this one.

Monta is beast
10-26-2013, 03:59 PM
There's no way in hell I would trade Lee & Barnes for Love & Shved. Love is the most overrated player in the game. Barnes has the potential to be a 25-5-5 player, with good/elite defense. Warriors management is keeping this core together, unless a superstar becomes available.

Hawkeye15
10-26-2013, 04:00 PM
No,he is not.

considering he can't stay healthy, and the fact that I prefer my centers to have higher than a mid to high 40's TS%, or maybe an offensive rating that can actually stay above 100 every year, yes he has been since his injuries started piling up.

Again, risky signing. IF, and that is IF, he can finally stay healthy, it will be a good signing.

Goose17
10-26-2013, 04:37 PM
. Like every other no GSW fan in here, I think they definitely overspent on this one.

There's at least three non-Dubs fans in this thread saying this isn't a bad deal.


Anyone that thinks this is bad or good is obviously new to the league. Right now it isn't anything other than a gutsy high risk move that may or may not pay off.




And this is the bottom line.

To say it's a "great contract" or a "terrible contract" is just ignorant. Like most NBA contracts, it was a calculated risk, his just a higher profile than most. Time will tell how that pans out, but it's a deal I absolutely endorse and in my opinion gives the team the best situation to advance in the playoffs. It could blow up in their face with another serious injury, but I'd still fully back the deal. And if he helps lead them in a deep playoff campaign going through teams like Memphis and/or the Rockets (which is the plan), we can enjoy watching the crow served up.

Here's to a bold management that isn't scared to take risk and aim for a title.

Agree 100%


People seem to be underestimating Bogut, he played through an injury in the post season and did a better job at guarding Duncan than anyone else that played them in that post season. He anchored our defense and made some clutch defensive plays. Without him, we wouldn't have made it past Denver.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 04:50 PM
For reasons that have already been mentioned, this is a terrible contract.

I'll ask again who should they have got instead? Don't worry still waiting....

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 04:52 PM
Cant believe so many people are saying good deal. Lol really? extremely overpaid. Bogut is done.

Ok so who should they have paid? And why is he done ? Is he hurt again? I'll wait for you too

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 04:56 PM
I dont care that people have an opinion about it being a bad deal but don't just state it and have no arguement to back it up and then don't offer a alternate solution that would be better than what was made.. Let's see if anyone takes my next post seriously bc thats how I feel when ppl make stupid comments and leave.

bgdreton
10-26-2013, 04:57 PM
Lebron James is the worse player in the nba period..... ^

moshy2
10-26-2013, 05:26 PM
Bogut doesn't need to have an offensive game, the Warriors have plenty of offense. What the Warriors need is a defensive anchor and that's what Bogut is. There's no doubt the contract is a risk, but one I think the Warriors should take. As stated, there's not really a viable alternative in free agency and trading for one would lose us Barnes or Thompson

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 07:32 PM
I'll ask again who should they have got instead? Don't worry still waiting....


Ok so who should they have paid? And why is he done ? Is he hurt again? I'll wait for you too


I dont care that people have an opinion about it being a bad deal but don't just state it and have no arguement to back it up and then don't offer a alternate solution that would be better than what was made.. Let's see if anyone takes my next post seriously bc thats how I feel when ppl make stupid comments and leave.


Lebron James is the worse player in the nba period..... ^

Do you just have no freaking clue how to multi-quote and formulate thoughts into a single post, or do you just love to read your own thoughts? You gotta work on that, bro.

SugeKnight
10-26-2013, 07:51 PM
Do you just have no freaking clue how to multi-quote and formulate thoughts into a single post, or do you just love to read your own thoughts? You gotta work on that, bro.
Still didn't answer his question.

astrosmaniac
10-26-2013, 08:32 PM
just cause it might be the best option available, doesn't automatically make it good (i'm not judging the deal, just pointing out a flaw in the logic)

mightybosstone
10-26-2013, 08:54 PM
Still didn't answer his question.

I've already argued the crap out of this discussion, and I've actually answered that question several times in this thread already. Gortat is an UFA after this season, and Asik is a guy the Warriors probably could have had if they were willing to give up one or two young pieces and/or a draft draft pick in next year's draft. Other than that, there aren't any guys who are necessarily better than Bogut, but Okafor and Varejao might be available after this season, and they're good defensive options when they're healthy.

And if those guys don't work, they could always go with Lee at center and get more of a defensive minded big at PF to pair him with. Bottom line, the Warriors had options and didn't have to make this deal if they didn't want to. That being said, I don't think it's an awful deal value-wise, but even at only two more years, it's still a pretty big risk.

THE MTL
10-26-2013, 09:16 PM
If 36 million is guaranteed then I say its a bad deal. I rather just pay a healthy durable less jnjury prone center an extra 1-2 million per year. He is too fragile for me.

SugeKnight
10-26-2013, 11:09 PM
I've already argued the crap out of this discussion, and I've actually answered that question several times in this thread already. Gortat is an UFA after this season, and Asik is a guy the Warriors probably could have had if they were willing to give up one or two young pieces and/or a draft draft pick in next year's draft. Other than that, there aren't any guys who are necessarily better than Bogut, but Okafor and Varejao might be available after this season, and they're good defensive options when they're healthy.

And if those guys don't work, they could always go with Lee at center and get more of a defensive minded big at PF to pair him with. Bottom line, the Warriors had options and didn't have to make this deal if they didn't want to. That being said, I don't think it's an awful deal value-wise, but even at only two more years, it's still a pretty big risk.

None of those options are as good as Bogut? They tried getting Howard with Bogut + Barnes/Thompson, but he chose Houston anyway. Bogut gives us the best chance to do something significant.

bgdreton
10-27-2013, 12:09 AM
just cause it might be the best option available, doesn't automatically make it good (i'm not judging the deal, just pointing out a flaw in the logic)

I understand but just the simple fact that there are no other options for an upgrade at the center at this point. We would have to give up a young piece, plus lose out on the chemistry we already have since we would have a new center, a new wing (replace Barnes or Thompson). We also don't have any first round picks for like the next 2 years or something like that. Let's say we did get gortat or some garbage center like that we would still be paying prob 10 mill at least, so the savings is mute really. Ok then you say well what if bogut gets hurt. Now I would say once festus is back how much of a drop off is it from gortat defensively prob none if not better for festus. So just for the so called stability of playing 66 games bc that's what gortat has play at most in the last 3 years, you would sacrifice 2 mill per year and chemistry and less of a defender? Look I'm not going to sit up here and say its not a risk bc it is but really there are not other viable options for the warriors who have pretty much never had a center in the past 25 years... Now if the FO is right then the sky is the limit as of right now it's a wait and see.

mightybosstone
10-27-2013, 12:10 AM
None of those options are as good as Bogut? They tried getting Howard with Bogut + Barnes/Thompson, but he chose Houston anyway. Bogut gives us the best chance to do something significant.

I would argue that Gortat and Asik are every bit as good as Bogut, and probably better at this point in their careers. And if Bogut's not healthy, he gives the Warriors the best chance to win nothing. Maybe he'll prove the world wrong, average a double-double, play 80 games and return to being a top 5-10 center in the league again. But if I had any money, I wouldn't waste it on that bet.

Rndy
10-27-2013, 12:53 AM
Bogut doesn't need to have an offensive game, the Warriors have plenty of offense. What the Warriors need is a defensive anchor and that's what Bogut is. There's no doubt the contract is a risk, but one I think the Warriors should take. As stated, there's not really a viable alternative in free agency and trading for one would lose us Barnes or Thompson

Yessir I have no problem with the deal it self I was just arguing he's in the 14-15 range if you don't need his offense you could have tried to get Asik but then you have to give something up so I do understand why they did this. His passing to Lee in the high post game is also a big part of the offense in the few games I've watched reminds me a lot of Noah and Boozer. Boozer looks pretty good in games When Noah is able to give him amazing post passes for easy buckets.

moshy2
10-27-2013, 02:44 AM
Yessir I have no problem with the deal it self I was just arguing he's in the 14-15 range if you don't need his offense you could have tried to get Asik but then you have to give something up so I do understand why they did this. His passing to Lee in the high post game is also a big part of the offense in the few games I've watched reminds me a lot of Noah and Boozer. Boozer looks pretty good in games When Noah is able to give him amazing post passes for easy buckets.

Wasn't necessarily directed at you, but people were saying his biggest hole is his offensive game, which I agree, but the Warriors aren't looking for him to be a top 5 offensive center. Lee plays no defense, so we need a defensive presence inside, which Bogut brings. All Bogut has to do on offense is continue his great passing like you said and get boards. Yes we could get Asik, but I'd rather have Bogut and Thompson/Barnes than just Asik. And signing a Center next offseason would hurt our chances of resigning our core more than this deal would unless we downgrade a good amount

Goose17
10-27-2013, 03:32 AM
"@gswscribe: Correction: Just to clarify, Bogut's INCENTIVES kick in if he plays 65 games AND earns one of those honors"

Guppyfighter
10-27-2013, 04:15 AM
Again, I would like to remind people that Bogut had 4 teams willing to give him big time money during free agency next year.

nycericanguy
10-27-2013, 11:57 AM
Bad deal, I mean wasn't GS even willing to GIVE away Bogut this offseason?

$36m GUARANTEED? This reminds me of PHI's gamble on Bynum, just doesn't seem likely that he'll be able to play significant minutes for 3 years including playoffs.

Don't really like some of GS's moves lately... thought they gave up way too much for Iggy as well.

PleaseBeNice
10-27-2013, 12:33 PM
I disagree. He's definitely a top 3 center impact wise, all around. Unlike guys like Cousins for example who have MASSIVE holes in their game... Bogut has no holes. When healthy he's one of a couple true defensive anchors, can give you an efficient 15-17 ppg, passes well, rebounds at an elite level. Last time he was healthy he was the second best center in the game and IF healthy he will return to top 3. Drummond will rise up soon and destroy, Cousins may improve but Bogut healthy is better than Hibbert.

i dont see a post game, any ball handling, mid range shot... no holes is a bit too far, great defensive center, thts bout it imo, and thats enough

Goose17
10-27-2013, 12:58 PM
thought they gave up way too much for Iggy as well.

lol. Okay.


This time last year people laughed at the idea of the Dubs making the playoffs, then they laughed at the idea of us defeating Denver, then they laughed at the idea of us even managing to win one game against San Antonio. They laughed at the extension we gave Curry, they laughed when we made Jackson head coach, they laughed when we traded Monta away for Bogut.

Laugh at the Iggy trade and look down on it all you want, you have no idea how orgasmically satisfying it is to prove haters wrong, over and over and over again.

beasted86
10-27-2013, 12:58 PM
Again, I would like to remind people that Bogut had 4 teams willing to give him big time money during free agency next year.

And who are those teams again?

Hawks, Mavs, Cavs, Lakers? There are more, but most are crappy teams.

Pretty much there is one playoff team with cap space to offer him double digits, and that's the Spurs. But that wouldn't make sense if Duncan retires or is soon to retire. Bogut + Splitter = Yuck.

Goose17
10-27-2013, 01:00 PM
i dont see a post game, any ball handling, mid range shot... no holes is a bit too far, great defensive center, thts bout it imo, and thats enough

His offense isn't what it used to be but he did look better in preseason (that's just preseason though).

He has a mean post game, did you watch him before the injury? He has a nice post game and an okay mid range shot.

You're right though, last year he struggled on offense. That elbow has never quite been the same.

Goose17
10-27-2013, 01:02 PM
Hawks, Mavs, Cavs, Lakers? There are more, but most are crappy teams.


Charlotte were rumored to be getting ready to offer Curry big bucks before we extended him, does that mean he wasn't worth extending? Because the only team that was giving him big money was the worst team in the league?

Bad teams become good teams, that's how the league works. It doesn't matter who wanted to give him big money, what matters is there were people that wanted to give him it.

nycericanguy
10-27-2013, 01:07 PM
lol. Okay.


This time last year people laughed at the idea of the Dubs making the playoffs, then they laughed at the idea of us defeating Denver, then they laughed at the idea of us even managing to win one game against San Antonio. They laughed at the extension we gave Curry, they laughed when we made Jackson head coach, they laughed when we traded Monta away for Bogut.

Laugh at the Iggy trade and look down on it all you want, you have no idea how orgasmically satisfying it is to prove haters wrong, over and over and over again.

Why such anger man? Like seriously. Do you want everyone to just agree with everything you say? This is a forum, I can't express an opinion ? If my opinion isn't yours I'm a "hater"? Like really? GSW is one of the funnest teams to watch, I try to catch them as often as I can... the last thing I am is a hater.

I just don't think those were good moves. Giving up multiple unprotected 1st round picks and having to let JJ & Landry go for a 30 year old player who has been declining for 4-5 years and was a FA? If NY made that move you'd be laughing your *** off, be real.

beasted86
10-27-2013, 01:44 PM
Charlotte were rumored to be getting ready to offer Curry big bucks before we extended him, does that mean he wasn't worth extending? Because the only team that was giving him big money was the worst team in the league?

Bad teams become good teams, that's how the league works. It doesn't matter who wanted to give him big money, what matters is there were people that wanted to give him it.
I think the progressive approach to team management is to get players to take slightly less to be a part of a good team. At least, that's the way the HEAT has been building for the past 3+ years. That's the way the Spurs have been building the past 10+.

Especially given Bogut's injury history, him making the stance that he is unwilling to take a non-guaranteed contract is ludicrous to me. I think more teams need to call a players bluff and see if they are willing to really play for an inferior team. I remember a couple years ago the Lakers offer a double digit per year contract offer to Odom over 3 years. He then tried to use the HEAT as leverage. The total contract amount was more, but it was over 5 years, and much less money per year. The Lakers in turn lowered their offer per year over the same 3 years, and Odom still ended up taking it because the difference is playing for the back to back champs or playing for a middle pack East playoff team with no chance at a championship.

If Bogut wants to play for the Bobcats for $8M more over the same course of a 3yr contract, let him. GMs should stop bidding against what they think is fair value.

J4KOP99
10-27-2013, 01:45 PM
Good deal for both sides. Bogut needs to stay healthy though. Not even for financial reasons but because they need him if they're going to win anything.

TrueFan420
10-27-2013, 01:51 PM
Good deal for both sides. Bogut needs to stay healthy though. Not even for financial reasons but because they need him if they're going to win anything.

Well we made it to the playoffs without him but yes if we wanna be a dark horse championship team we need to him healthy and ready to play in he he playoffs.

TrueFan420
10-27-2013, 02:01 PM
I just don't think those were good moves. Giving up multiple unprotected 1st round picks and having to let JJ & Landry go for a 30 year old player who has been declining for 4-5 years and was a FA? If NY made that move you'd be laughing your *** off, be real.

The picks are gonna be low and the loss of Landry was solved with the signing of spieghts. JJ is loss as he was a good back up to curry but he at times would try and do too much and mess up what made our offense flow so well. Iggy is 29 I believe and while his offense took a step back his defense is still next level and transformed Denver. Let's also not forget that we don't need his offense but even having said that he played amazing in the playoffs against us and averaged something like 18 5 5. He also can make up for some of the playmaking ability lost with jack. Having said that I thought the dollar amount of his contract was a little high and would have rather seen him at 10 per but the deal is a declining one so that helps.

As far as the Knicks... That would have been a fantastic move for you. He and chandler would play lock down d and both let melo be melo. Iggy could mark the other teams best perimeter player so melo didn't have to and with iggy's playmaking if you would wanted to go straight d mode you could put shump at pg for stretches of the game. If melo doesn't get his ish together on both sides of the ball your team will need to be build like the AI sixers. D and shooting and melo does the rest.

Guppyfighter
10-27-2013, 02:10 PM
Why such anger man? Like seriously. Do you want everyone to just agree with everything you say? This is a forum, I can't express an opinion ? If my opinion isn't yours I'm a "hater"? Like really? GSW is one of the funnest teams to watch, I try to catch them as often as I can... the last thing I am is a hater.

I just don't think those were good moves. Giving up multiple unprotected 1st round picks and having to let JJ & Landry go for a 30 year old player who has been declining for 4-5 years and was a FA? If NY made that move you'd be laughing your *** off, be real.

I didn't like the Iggy deal that much, but the first rounders are something I am not worried about. Not because they aren't valuable, but because our FO has already bought into the first round before.

nycericanguy
10-27-2013, 02:10 PM
The picks are gonna be low and the loss of Landry was solved with the signing of spieghts. JJ is loss as he was a good back up to curry but he at times would try and do too much and mess up what made our offense flow so well. Iggy is 29 I believe and while his offense took a step back his defense is still next level and transformed Denver. Let's also not forget that we don't need his offense but even having said that he played amazing in the playoffs against us and averaged something like 18 5 5. He also can make up for some of the playmaking ability lost with jack. Having said that I thought the dollar amount of his contract was a little high and would have rather seen him at 10 per but the deal is a declining one so that helps.

As far as the Knicks... That would have been a fantastic move for you. He and chandler would play lock down d and both let melo be melo. Iggy could mark the other teams best perimeter player so melo didn't have to and with iggy's playmaking if you would wanted to go straight d mode you could put shump at pg for stretches of the game. If melo doesn't get his ish together on both sides of the ball your team will need to be build like the AI sixers. D and shooting and melo does the rest.

He'll be 30 in a couple of months. I'm not saying it was a horrible move, but next years draft class is pretty stacked, and I worry if GSW will be able to get 78 games out of Curry again, that was pretty much a best case scenario last year. So it's not a given those will be late picks, not saying they'll be lottery picks, but what if they 15-20?

And DEN was pretty damn good before Iggy got there.

Speights & Douglas to me are significant downgrades from JJ & Landry. Landry has always been close to a 20ppg PER 36 guy, and Jack was one of the better bench players in the league last year. Toney Douglas has had trouble even cracking team rotations. Given all that, I'm just not sure Iggy makes GSW significantly better, if at all. Especially with his poor 3 pt shooting.

And JJ was a great insurance policy for Curry. as a knick fan that watched Douglas for 3-4 years, let me tell you, he's AWFUL as a PG. He's better suited as a combo/sg.

And now $36m guaranteed to a guy who's played a total of 44 games the past 2 years? It's a big risk... I mean even Love, Bynum & Amare have played way more games than that the past 2 years.

Guppyfighter
10-27-2013, 02:10 PM
The picks are gonna be low and the loss of Landry was solved with the signing of spieghts. JJ is loss as he was a good back up to curry but he at times would try and do too much and mess up what made our offense flow so well. Iggy is 29 I believe and while his offense took a step back his defense is still next level and transformed Denver. Let's also not forget that we don't need his offense but even having said that he played amazing in the playoffs against us and averaged something like 18 5 5. He also can make up for some of the playmaking ability lost with jack. Having said that I thought the dollar amount of his contract was a little high and would have rather seen him at 10 per but the deal is a declining one so that helps.

As far as the Knicks... That would have been a fantastic move for you. He and chandler would play lock down d and both let melo be melo. Iggy could mark the other teams best perimeter player so melo didn't have to and with iggy's playmaking if you would wanted to go straight d mode you could put shump at pg for stretches of the game. If melo doesn't get his ish together on both sides of the ball your team will need to be build like the AI sixers. D and shooting and melo does the rest.

Landry is significantly better than Speights. It's why Speights was on a bargain and Landry got the money.

TrueFan420
10-27-2013, 02:37 PM
Landry is significantly better than Speights. It's why Speights was on a bargain and Landry got the money.

He could have gotten a better deal had he signed elsewhere but it took less the play for us. Landry's only the better player when he uses his post game far too often he would take the mid range shoots. He will be missed but spieghts will fill his role fine.

Guppyfighter
10-27-2013, 02:47 PM
He could have gotten a better deal had he signed elsewhere but it took less the play for us. Landry's only the better player when he uses his post game far too often he would take the mid range shoots. He will be missed but spieghts will fill his role fine.

Speights TS is like 513 and Landry's is 600. Landry scores more as well. I'd take Landry 10/10 times.

TrueFan420
10-27-2013, 02:59 PM
He'll be 30 in a couple of months. I'm not saying it was a horrible move, but next years draft class is pretty stacked, and I worry if GSW will be able to get 78 games out of Curry again, that was pretty much a best case scenario last year. So it's not a given those will be late picks, not saying they'll be lottery picks, but what if they 15-20?

And DEN was pretty damn good before Iggy got there.

Speights & Douglas to me are significant downgrades from JJ & Landry. Landry has always been close to a 20ppg PER 36 guy, and Jack was one of the better bench players in the league last year. Toney Douglas has had trouble even cracking team rotations. Given all that, I'm just not sure Iggy makes GSW significantly better, if at all. Especially with his poor 3 pt shooting.

And JJ was a great insurance policy for Curry. as a knick fan that watched Douglas for 3-4 years, let me tell you, he's AWFUL as a PG. He's better suited as a combo/sg.

And now $36m guaranteed to a guy who's played a total of 44 games the past 2 years? It's a big risk... I mean even Love, Bynum & Amare have played way more games than that the past 2 years.
We don't need more young. Were a dark horse for the finals and iggy is part of the reason for that.

Denver was good before but look at their defense with and without iggy. He made them better.

Landry is better but only when he plays in the post and far too often he would take jumpshots. Spieghts isn't a significant downgrade. Douglas is and I've said I think we will miss jack but iggy is a creator and can help make up for that. Plus lee and Bogut are both very good passers.

I'm not saying boguts deal isn't a risk but all contracts are to a degree. Look at grant hill to Orlando. His last two injuries aren't chronic like Bynum or others. Both were bad falls and he landed weird one on his ankle the other his elbow. Its a risk but considering the other options one I can live with but yea I'd have been much happier with a 10 per year deal with a team option for the 3 year.

Guppyfighter
10-27-2013, 03:06 PM
Speights is a pretty huge downgrade.

Goose17
10-27-2013, 03:12 PM
Why such anger man? Like seriously. Do you want everyone to just agree with everything you say? This is a forum, I can't express an opinion ? If my opinion isn't yours I'm a "hater"? Like really? GSW is one of the funnest teams to watch, I try to catch them as often as I can... the last thing I am is a hater.

I just don't think those were good moves. Giving up multiple unprotected 1st round picks and having to let JJ & Landry go for a 30 year old player who has been declining for 4-5 years and was a FA? If NY made that move you'd be laughing your *** off, be real.

1. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to disagree with it. Next time if you're going to give your opinion and you don't want people thinking you're a hater maybe back it up with some reasoning instead of just bluntly stating something was a "bad deal" like you're stating facts.

2. Declining? In what way is he declining? Allow me to repeat myself His defense certainly isn't declining. when Iggy was on the floor for Denver last season, their points allowed per 100 possessions was tied for 7th best in the league. When Iggy was on the bench, Denvers points allowed per 100 was the 23rd worst. Meaning on his own he took their defense from being in the bottom 10 to the top 10. In the 2012-13 season with the Nuggets, Iguodala held opposing shooting guards to a PER of 12.7, and opposing small forwards to a PER of 9.9. Take a second and think about how deep the wing position is right now. That's some seriously impressive numbers. His RAPM was comparable (4.2) to some of the best defensive big men in the league, I.E Noah (3.8), Marc Gasol (4.5), D12 (4.4), Larry Sanders (4.2). The only wing player with better was Lebron.

Maybe you were meaning his offense was declining? He might not score much (averaging 15 PPG for his career) but when he does score, he does it efficiently. His TS% last season was around 0.52. Iggy will never be taking the big shots on offense and he isn't a great free throw shooter, but he will potentially be surrounded by Curry, Klay and Barnes (as well as Lee), so that's not really an issue.

What about his play making? He's likely going to play a point-forward role when Curry is resting and he's more than capable of playing that role just as well as Jack did if not better. In fact, looking at their careers, Iggy has better TOV% than Jack but slightly lower AST% (Jack is 4% higher), considering he doesn't play the point position and hasn't been the primary ball handler, those are pretty astonishing numbers.

So that's the numbers, what about just in general? His veteran presence is going to help, he seems to get on well with a lot of our guys. And he's going to fit in brilliantly, he's literally a perfect fit for our system. I can't wait to see him on the court with Barnes having two swingmen as versatile as that is going to be a matchup nightmare for the opponent and the defensive schemes we'll be able to utilize with those two might give us the best wing defense in the West. And unlike Denver, we're not going to try and put him into a situation where he's uncomfortable, we know exactly what we're getting, an elite defender and great slasher/cutter. We're not going to force him into throwing up shots he's not good at. If he can help spread the floor great, but that's not a necessity. Then you have to think about how much more deadly we will be on the fast break with someone as athletic as he is finishing at the rim! With all the attention Curry draws on defense we're going to have unlimited options on offense, I would like to see a team double team Curry and leave Iggy wide open to storm through the lane.

We don't need Jack, Douglas and Iggy will be fine as ball handlers and I already covered Iggy vs Jack as ball handlers. As for losing Landry? I think that will hurt us more than losing Jack but it's not a big deal, Speights is a decent replacement though, he might not score inside much but he has that sweet mid-range game and rebounds well. It's still a downgrade but it could have been a lot worse, and it was worth it to get Iggy.

The picks aren't likely to be lottery picks anyway.



The lineup we have right now is FAR better than the lineup we had last season. The roster is much improved and this isn't even up for debate anyone that knows basketball can see it. We have arguably the best wing rotation in the West (only rival for that in the West is Clippers), it's probably one of the best in the entire league. We have plenty of defenders now, at every position. We have two guys who can stretch the floor at a consistently elite level (Splash Bro's), we have 2 or 3 others that can spread the floor, we have Barnes and Iggy that are great at slashing and cutting, We have Lee to get buckets inside with Bogut if he's healthy, then some nice mid-range players.


Honestly, imo we haven't had a roster this good in decades (note; that's plural).


Are we a championship contender? Hell no. Not unless it's some underdog story, I mean it's possible just not probable. Are we building a team that could become a championship contender in the very near future? Hell yes.

Goose17
10-27-2013, 03:18 PM
Speights TS is like 513 and Landry's is 600. Landry scores more as well. I'd take Landry 10/10 times.

To be fair Speights spends most of his time shooting mid-range shots, Landry spends most of his playing under the basket. It would take nothing short of a miracle for ANY player spending most of his time shooting from mid-range to have a higher TS% than a guy who camps in the paint.

I don't disagree it's a downgrade, I just feel the TS% is irrelevant.

Guppyfighter
10-27-2013, 04:07 PM
To be fair Speights spends most of his time shooting mid-range shots, Landry spends most of his playing under the basket. It would take nothing short of a miracle for ANY player spending most of his time shooting from mid-range to have a higher TS% than a guy who camps in the paint.

I don't disagree it's a downgrade, I just feel the TS% is irrelevant.

It's completely revelant and it doesn't help that his Speights biggest strength on offense is what tanks his offensive value.

LA_Raiders
10-27-2013, 11:32 PM
Overpaid. He spends more time in the bench injured.

lol, please
10-28-2013, 12:08 AM
Are we a championship contender? Hell no.

:facepalm:

TrueFan420
10-28-2013, 12:32 AM
:facepalm:
I wouldn't call us contenders but I'd definitely say dark horse title shot.

Monta is beast
10-28-2013, 02:03 AM
Not a contender? Haha. Anyone who finishes top 4 in the WC is a title contender IMO. Anyways incentives in the deal tell me Bogut thinks he's healthy, and clearly the warriors believe he is. It's funny how a bunch of no ones try and say bad deal dude ain't healthy. Warriors have actual medical experts ima have to take there opinion over urs

Monta is beast
10-28-2013, 02:07 AM
It back on that "contender" subject. We were two games from the finals (easily could have beat the spurs if we had pulled out game one), yet we're not contenders. We IMO clearly got better through off-season additions,. On top of that Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green, Ezeli, and even Bogut should all improve from last season. I understand people have opinions but think before you ****in speak...please

True Sports Fan
10-28-2013, 02:10 AM
I disagree. He's definitely a top 3 center impact wise, all around. Unlike guys like Cousins for example who have MASSIVE holes in their game... Bogut has no holes. When healthy he's one of a couple true defensive anchors, can give you an efficient 15-17 ppg, passes well, rebounds at an elite level. Last time he was healthy he was the second best center in the game and IF healthy he will return to top 3. Drummond will rise up soon and destroy, Cousins may improve but Bogut healthy is better than Hibbert.

Bogut has only averaged over 15 PPG once in his career, stop acting like he is great all around. Don't get me wrong he is damn solid, but not like any team would die to have Bogut. And, I like how you are taking shots at Cousins, when your big men are Blake Griffin and Deandre Jordan :laugh:

tredigs
10-28-2013, 02:38 AM
Bogut has only averaged over 15 PPG once in his career, stop acting like he is great all around. Don't get me wrong he is damn solid, but not like any team would die to have Bogut. And, I like how you are taking shots at Cousins, when your big men are Blake Griffin and Deandre Jordan :laugh:

I'm missing the punchline.

Goose17
10-28-2013, 06:22 AM
We're a dark horse but if anyone thinks the odds are in our favour for beating Miami in a seven game series they're tripping.

Like I said in my post (the part you all conveniently ignored) its not impossible for us to win a championship. It's just not probable we will win it over the 4-5 teams above us.

KnickaBocka.44
10-28-2013, 09:44 AM
Charlotte were rumored to be getting ready to offer Curry big bucks before we extended him, does that mean he wasn't worth extending? Because the only team that was giving him big money was the worst team in the league?

Bad teams become good teams, that's how the league works. It doesn't matter who wanted to give him big money, what matters is there were people that wanted to give him it.

Why do Warriors fans bring up Curry in this conversation? His situation is not similar to Bogut's at all.

KnickaBocka.44
10-28-2013, 09:48 AM
lol. Okay.


This time last year people laughed at the idea of the Dubs making the playoffs, then they laughed at the idea of us defeating Denver, then they laughed at the idea of us even managing to win one game against San Antonio. They laughed at the extension we gave Curry, they laughed when we made Jackson head coach, they laughed when we traded Monta away for Bogut.

Laugh at the Iggy trade and look down on it all you want, you have no idea how orgasmically satisfying it is to prove haters wrong, over and over and over again.

Are you kidding with this ****? First of all, your comment was directed at a Knick fan. If you pay attention to the rest of the NBA you would know that we overachieved just as much, if not more, than the W's did last year. No one laughed at the Monta deal, everyone knows he's awful. No one laughed at anything the Warriors did. People, in general, like rooting for the Warriors more than most teams.

jp611
10-28-2013, 09:48 AM
The more and more C's that get signed to these insane contracts... The more and more Joakim Noah's deal looks like an absolute steal.

N3TS
10-28-2013, 12:32 PM
I'm not a big fan of this deal. I'm fully aware of the incentives of this contract, but I would of thought a similar deal of what Bynum got this summer would have been much more fitting.

nycericanguy
10-28-2013, 12:35 PM
I'm not a big fan of this deal. I'm fully aware of the incentives of this contract, but I would of thought a similar deal of what Bynum got this summer would have been much more fitting.

Agreed, Bynum only got $6m guaranteed and as he's actually played more games the last 2 years.

I thought Bogut would get something like 1 year $10m, with a 2nd year TEAM option at $10-12m. But a full 3 years and $36m GUARANTEED? Seems very excessive.

Chromehounds
10-28-2013, 01:35 PM
I think the progressive approach to team management is to get players to take slightly less to be a part of a good team. At least, that's the way the HEAT has been building for the past 3+ years. That's the way the Spurs have been building the past 10+.

Especially given Bogut's injury history, him making the stance that he is unwilling to take a non-guaranteed contract is ludicrous to me. I think more teams need to call a players bluff and see if they are willing to really play for an inferior team. I remember a couple years ago the Lakers offer a double digit per year contract offer to Odom over 3 years. He then tried to use the HEAT as leverage. The total contract amount was more, but it was over 5 years, and much less money per year. The Lakers in turn lowered their offer per year over the same 3 years, and Odom still ended up taking it because the difference is playing for the back to back champs or playing for a middle pack East playoff team with no chance at a championship.

If Bogut wants to play for the Bobcats for $8M more over the same course of a 3yr contract, let him. GMs should stop bidding against what they think is fair value.

The Heat's taking the progressive approach? Sure pay 300mil to 3 guys then use the progressive approach on the rest of the team. Using Stars power to get good talents at a discount rate is not the norm, it's the exception. Regarding the Bogut's deal, this is how the NBA works you pay market value, end of story.

Chromehounds
10-28-2013, 01:41 PM
Agreed, Bynum only got $6m guaranteed and as he's actually played more games the last 2 years.

I thought Bogut would get something like 1 year $10m, with a 2nd year TEAM option at $10-12m. But a full 3 years and $36m GUARANTEED? Seems very excessive.

Again from the outside looking in, Bynum got such deal maybe his current condition dictates so. In Bogut case, he got 2 freak accidents, there's nothing chronic about that. Is Bogut fragile? That is to be seen. Is the signing a gamble? Yes, but a risk worth taking.

lol, please
10-28-2013, 01:56 PM
Are you kidding with this ****? First of all, your comment was directed at a Knick fan. If you pay attention to the rest of the NBA you would know that we overachieved just as much, if not more, than the W's did last year. No one laughed at the Monta deal, everyone knows he's awful. No one laughed at anything the Warriors did. People, in general, like rooting for the Warriors more than most teams.
Only right before we were a lock for the playoffs. :laugh2: What he says is true, well before that everything the Warriors did was met with rolling eyes and condescending comments about how they will still just be cellar dwellers.

You might not have been aware, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

lol, please
10-28-2013, 01:57 PM
I'm missing the punchline.

Let me provide it for you. Blake is savagely overrated. You may disagree, but the punchline is the same whether you agree with it or not.

Goose17
10-28-2013, 02:33 PM
Only right before we were a lock for the playoffs. :laugh2: What he says is true, well before that everything the Warriors did was met with rolling eyes and condescending comments about how they will still just be cellar dwellers.

You might not have been aware, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

What he said^

NYKnickFanatic
10-28-2013, 02:35 PM
He's not a top 3 center when healthy... sorry. He might crack the top 10.

A healthy Bogut, top 5 for sure. People must have forgot.

Monta is beast
10-28-2013, 10:06 PM
Bynums chance of coming back and being able to make a difference is much lower than Boguts.

Guppyfighter
10-28-2013, 10:07 PM
I think what makes this deal is so great is that it is front loaded.

tredigs
10-28-2013, 10:10 PM
I think what makes this deal is so great is that it is front loaded.

That, and depending on what the PT incentives are, those as well. I'm hoping that it's weighted towards his availability in the playoffs and not just the regular season.

beasted86
10-28-2013, 10:18 PM
A healthy Bogut, top 5 for sure. People must have forgot.

Easy to forget when he is never healthy.

tredigs
10-28-2013, 10:28 PM
Easy to forget when he is never healthy.

Except for the last time we saw him play in the playoffs? Bogut's D was a main reason why the team got a chance to play the Spurs, and why they had a chance to beat them. The previous casts have always been a joke trying to guard bigs like Duncan.

BKLYNpigeon
10-28-2013, 10:51 PM
Its not that bad of a deal.. Its 3 years...and the Warriors have the cap room and flexibility with all the young talent.

beasted86
10-28-2013, 10:52 PM
Except for the last time we saw him play in the playoffs? Bogut's D was a main reason why the team got a chance to play the Spurs, and why they had a chance to beat them. The previous casts have always been a joke trying to guard bigs like Duncan.

Um.... Bogut didn't play like a top 5 center last playoffs either. Lets not get delusional now.
Because he is important to a team's success doesn't mean he was playing like a top 5 Center.

BKLYNpigeon
10-28-2013, 11:06 PM
Bogut's salary is Basically 3 years 36 million dollars. 12 million a season.

I dont think he can earn his bonuses, but Bogut thinks he can and is betting on himself, which is commendable.

he can earn about 2 more million a season in incentives if he plays 65 games + one of the following categories:


-1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA;

-1st, or 2nd team All-Defense;

-All-Star;

-NBA Defensive Player of the Year.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2013/10/28/warriors-andrew-bogut-extension-details-15-bonus-package-is-a-year-to-year-thing-no-trade-kicker-future-cap-info/

tredigs
10-29-2013, 01:03 AM
Um.... Bogut didn't play like a top 5 center last playoffs either. Lets not get delusional now.
Because he is important to a team's success doesn't mean he was playing like a top 5 Center.

I was speaking to the "NEVER" healthy more than the top 5 comment you were responding to. He was back to being in that conversation for top 5 defensively in that playoff run, though. And regardless of personal rankings, the bottom line is that he was crucial for them when it mattered most.


Bogut's salary is Basically 3 years 36 million dollars. 12 million a season.

I dont think he can earn his bonuses, but Bogut thinks he can and is betting on himself, which is commendable.

he can earn about 2 more million a season in incentives if he plays 65 games + one of the following categories:


-1st, 2nd or 3rd team All-NBA;

-1st, or 2nd team All-Defense;

-All-Star;

-NBA Defensive Player of the Year.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2013/10/28/warriors-andrew-bogut-extension-details-15-bonus-package-is-a-year-to-year-thing-no-trade-kicker-future-cap-info/

Solid incentives. The W's would be happy to pay for any of them.

sunsfan88
10-29-2013, 05:37 AM
How many games do Warriors fans think Bogut will play this season excluding playoffs?

Goose17
10-29-2013, 07:40 AM
Um.... Bogut didn't play like a top 5 center last playoffs either. Lets not get delusional now.

Defensively he did.

Goose17
10-29-2013, 07:44 AM
How many games do Warriors fans think Bogut will play this season excluding playoffs?

Well I can't speak for every Dubs fan, but personally;

Optimistically? 75+

Realistically? About 65 (double what he played last year). He's trimmed down and apparently fully recovered so...

jay87shot
10-29-2013, 08:31 AM
I like the people who are saying he is fully recovered. Thats what they've been saying about him for like 4 years. The nba is nuts, this contract is a good reason why I've been losing interest in the nba. Contracts are getting ridiculous and most players don't give max effort until the playoffs.

Goose17
10-29-2013, 08:43 AM
I like the people who are saying he is fully recovered. Thats what they've been saying about him for like 4 years.

You're totally right. I mean aside from the fact they haven't been saying that for 4 years and you're totally wrong.

But aside from being totally wrong, you're totally right.

beasted86
10-29-2013, 10:58 AM
Defensively he did.


I was speaking to the "NEVER" healthy more than the top 5 comment you were responding to. He was back to being in that conversation for top 5 defensively in that playoff run, though. And regardless of personal rankings, the bottom line is that he was crucial for them when it mattered most.


Defense is often subjective and people hold biases. But statistically, he wasn't a top 5 center either IMHO. Gasol, Hibbert, Duncan, KG, Noah. Though I see how some people could want to try and replace one of them if so wished, and they could make a decent argument doing it.

Either way, the contract is all based on him staying healthy, not continuing at the same rate he's been. So it is a gamble. Maybe it pays off, maybe it doesn't. We'll know for sure 3 years from now obviously. He could have a great 1st year then go back to being injured. He could have all 3 years healthy. He could have all 3 years banged up. We don't know for now... but I hope you can at least acknowledge he got paid on the basis of staying healthy. You don't pay $12M+ a year to an injured Center.

sunsfan88
10-29-2013, 01:09 PM
Well I can't speak for every Dubs fan, but personally;

Optimistically? 75+

Realistically? About 65 (double what he played last year). He's trimmed down and apparently fully recovered so...
And your ok with your team paying $12/yr for a guy to play 65 games?

nycericanguy
10-29-2013, 01:12 PM
And your ok with your team paying $12/yr for a guy to play 65 games?

I think if Bogut averaged 65 games GS would be ecstatic.

Goose17
10-29-2013, 01:16 PM
And your ok with your team paying $12/yr for a guy to play 65 games?

If he plays 65 games and is 100% healthy throughout the playoffs? Yes. We're not a big market team, and big men of his caliber don't come along much these days.


Happy is maybe not the right phrasing.

tredigs
10-29-2013, 01:19 PM
Defense is often subjective and people hold biases. But statistically, he wasn't a top 5 center either IMHO. Gasol, Hibbert, Duncan, KG, Noah. Though I see how some people could want to try and replace one of them if so wished, and they could make a decent argument doing it.

Either way, the contract is all based on him staying healthy, not continuing at the same rate he's been. So it is a gamble. Maybe it pays off, maybe it doesn't. We'll know for sure 3 years from now obviously. He could have a great 1st year then go back to being injured. He could have all 3 years healthy. He could have all 3 years banged up. We don't know for now... but I hope you can at least acknowledge he got paid on the basis of staying healthy. You don't pay $12M+ a year to an injured Center.

Do you honestly think I don't realize they're paying him with the intent of him being healthy? He's currently not injured, and had been working towards that all of last season - culminating in his solid playoff run. Like I've already said, like all contracts, it's a calculated risk. His just higher than most. But centers with ability are paid a premium in this NBA. Hell look at Bynum, he wasn't even able to step on a court and he's paid 13 a year. Some of those risks pay off, others don't. We can revisit this in 3 years. The stance people have is clear. Some are OK with risk, others avoid it.

Goose17
10-29-2013, 01:35 PM
statistically, he wasn't a top 5 center either IMHO. Gasol, Hibbert, Duncan, KG, Noah.

First of all if you're basing it on stats, you're wrong. If you're basing it on your opinion, don't claim to be basing it on stats. The phrase "statistically he..." and "IMHO" shouldn't be in the same sentence, numbers aren't opinion, they're fact.

Now if you prefer those other five guys that's fair enough. But that doesn't mean they're better. Like you said, people hold bias.

Playoff stats;

Garnett's TRB% 23.2
Bogut's TRB% 22.5
Noah's TRB% 17.2
Hibberts TRB% 15.9
Gasol's TRB% 12.5

Bogut's RPG (Per 36) 14.4
Garnett's RPG (Per 36) 13.9
Noah's RPG (Per 36) 10.1
Gasol's RPG (Per 36) 7.5
Hibberts RPG (Per 36) 9.8

Bogut also led all of them in DRB per 36 aside from Garnett.

Noah's BPG (per 36) 2.3
Bogut's BPG (per 36) 2.0
Gasol's BPG (per 36) 2.0
Hibbert's BPG (per 36) 1.9
Garnett's BPG (per 36) 1.0

Garnett's DRTG 90
Bogut's DRTG 100
Gasol's DRTG 102
Hibbert's DRTG 104
Noah's DRTG 106


Go ahead and look at all the other stats, I don't have the time to post everything. If you honestly believe he wasn't a top 5 defensive big man in the post season, you're crazy. Just ask any Spurs fan how well he guarded Duncan (given the fact that Duncan is the best player in his position).

TheIlladelph16
10-29-2013, 02:46 PM
Yeesh. I don't really care if his injuries were "freak accidents" or not. The fact that the guy has barely played over the last 3-4 seasons is enough for me to label him injury-prone. If I'm the GM for the Warriors, I'm not giving him this contract for that reason alone, although the incentives make it much more palatable.

IF he is healthy and plays 65 plus games at his usual level, then the deal is certainly worth it. I just have a difficult time believing that will be the case all of a sudden.