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View Full Version : Does Wade have TOP 15 GOAT potential?



canefandynasty
10-23-2013, 04:39 PM
Say he stays out of injuries and plays like his 2012 form with very good playoff performances and wins 2 more rings in his career as a great 2nd option, making it 5 rings. Do you move him to TOP 15 all time? Say his regular season and playoff PER stays at his regular 25+ during those 2 seasons they win those rings. Is he TOP 15

jerellh528
10-23-2013, 04:54 PM
No way, that ship sailed a while ago.

canefandynasty
10-23-2013, 04:58 PM
No way, that ship sailed a while ago.

Does this include the hypothetical I listed, which isn't out of the realm of possibility?

abe_froman
10-23-2013, 05:00 PM
def not

ManningToTyree
10-23-2013, 05:01 PM
I don't think so. It's pretty clear he is on the decline but even with your hypothetical he would be hard pressed to climb that high IMO

Chronz
10-23-2013, 05:12 PM
In this day and age, coming into the league as old as he did kind of takes away from his career

amos1er
10-23-2013, 05:30 PM
Top 20 yes... Top 15 is very unlikely.

Hawkeye15
10-23-2013, 05:30 PM
not unless he finds the fountain of youth. Top 25? Of course.

canefandynasty
10-23-2013, 05:35 PM
I don't think so. It's pretty clear he is on the decline but even with your hypothetical he would be hard pressed to climb that high IMO

So, you're saying that:

2013-14:24-25 RS PER | 24-25 playoff PER | 23-25 Finals PER | ring
2014-15: 23-25 RS PER | 23-25 playoff PER | 22-25 Finals PER | ring

...won't get him to TOP 15. His career stats by the end of 2015 would look something like this:

CAREER:
25 RS PER | 24 playoff PER | 27 Finals PER | .197 WS/48 | 5 rings

That's not TOP 15 worthy?

2-ONE-5
10-23-2013, 05:36 PM
no you dont become a top 15 player all time by taking a back seat while still in your prime years.

2-ONE-5
10-23-2013, 05:37 PM
So, you're saying that:

2013-14:24-25 RS PER | 24-25 playoff PER | 23-25 Finals PER | ring
2014-15: 23-25 RS PER | 23-25 playoff PER | 22-25 Finals PER | ring

...won't get him to TOP 15. His career stats by the end of 2015 would look something like this:

CAREER:
25 RS PER | 24 playoff PER | 27 Finals PER | .197 WS/48 | 5 rings

That's not TOP 15 worthy?

yea um players dont make the HOF based on PER

canefandynasty
10-23-2013, 05:38 PM
not unless he finds the fountain of youth. Top 25? Of course.

He doesn't need to be in his 2009 form, he just to be healthy IMO. We saw what an healthy Wade can do last season during the 27 game winning streak. If he can stay healthy he still have TOP 5 player IMO. He has regressed a bit, but not to the point you're implying.

amos1er
10-23-2013, 05:38 PM
no you dont become a top 15 player all time by taking a back seat while still in your prime years.

To be fair, he didn't take a back seat in 2011. Lebron just choked away his last chance at finals MVP. Had Lebron even shown up at 50% during that series, the Heat win easy and Wade is finals MVP for sure.

amos1er
10-23-2013, 05:39 PM
He doesn't need to be in his 2009 form, he just to be healthy IMO. We saw what an healthy Wade can do last season during the 27 game winning streak. If he can stay healthy he still have TOP 5 player IMO. He has regressed a bit, but not to the point you're implying.

Do you think he could beat out guys like Big O and West?

canefandynasty
10-23-2013, 05:42 PM
yea um players dont make the HOF based on PER
How many players in NBA history with a career 24+ career PER isn't in the HOF? Not a lot. Not saying great PER = HOF, but there is a correlation to HOF, especially with 5 rings under your belt.

Chronz
10-23-2013, 05:42 PM
Do you think he could beat out guys like Big O and West?

How highly do you regard their rings?

amos1er
10-23-2013, 05:52 PM
How highly do you regard their rings?

Higher than I do any of Wade's.

tredigs
10-23-2013, 05:52 PM
Had he carried Lebron to the title in 2011 (which he almost did), then he'd have a good case brewing. But, that didn't happen. Top 20 is more reasonable.

tredigs
10-23-2013, 05:54 PM
By carry him to the title, I'm talking solely about the Finals - where he was the best player on Miami.

amos1er
10-23-2013, 05:57 PM
By carry him to the title, I'm talking solely about the Finals - where he was the best player on Miami.

Agreed. Lebron really cost him with that one. Would have put him top 15 for sure.

Supreme LA
10-23-2013, 06:04 PM
Not a chance. There are so many players I would have ahead of him all-time.

Chronz
10-23-2013, 06:14 PM
Agreed. Lebron really cost him with that one. Would have put him top 15 for sure.
Wade performed plenty awful himself this year, Bron suffered through a similar situation.

More-Than-Most
10-23-2013, 06:28 PM
Not a chance. There are so many players I would have ahead of him all-time.

Yea I cant understand how people are even giving up top 25... I am shocked. He was pretty bad last year and could continue to go down that route

Bruno
10-23-2013, 06:41 PM
eh. 10-15 puts him in Malone/Malone, LBJ, West, Oscar, Robinson territory. not sure if he's quite in that company, maybe right outside it. 14-17 when its all said and done isn't out of the question but he needs to be better and continue his team success. I think he's already earned top 25.

Bruno
10-23-2013, 06:43 PM
The thing about Wade will be that his cumulative statistics won't measure up.

bagwell368
10-23-2013, 06:47 PM
No way, that ship sailed a while ago.

x2 He's been slowed by injuries. He looks to be in decline already. Positive he retires a top 30, not at all sure he makes it to 20 - probably not - no legs for 15

Bruno
10-23-2013, 06:54 PM
are KG and Dirk ahead of Wade all time as of today? Stockton? which players outside of the top ten are still ahead of Wade on the all-time list? Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Hondo, McHale, Pippen? who else.

Bruno
10-23-2013, 06:56 PM
its tough to properly measure Wades rings. His 2006 performance is one of the most dominant of all time, and his 2013 performance is one of the weakest.

THE MTL
10-23-2013, 10:11 PM
Under ur hypothetical situation I would say def top 20.

beasted86
10-23-2013, 10:22 PM
I would say it is possible. He is already pretty easily top 25 for me, and will be top 20 with another ring playing better than he did last playoffs (even though Finals he was solid).

Tony_Starks
10-23-2013, 11:11 PM
He could but even if healthy I think he'll keep sacrificing his game for the betterment of the team. Like amos1er pointed out he technically should have another finals MVP under his belt if not for a very poor performance by his teammate against Dallas.

He'll get more rings but in the end he'll get the Kobe treatment and get disregarded as a "sidekick" which will ultimately hurt his legacy unless his buddy switches teams again....

FlashBolt
10-24-2013, 01:43 AM
If he gets two more rings, I don't care what you say.. He has the credentials and don't mention jerry west alongside wade. Jerry west played vs scrubs and got finals mvp unwarrantedly. Sorry but If you're prepared to rate someone above Lj because of rings, you better give another player that treatment.

2-ONE-5
10-24-2013, 10:01 AM
To be fair, he didn't take a back seat in 2011. Lebron just choked away his last chance at finals MVP. Had Lebron even shown up at 50% during that series, the Heat win easy and Wade is finals MVP for sure.

wasnt talking about the finals. talking about his career when he took the backseat to James, like i said not top 15 players took the backseat in their prime years

2-ONE-5
10-24-2013, 10:02 AM
How many players in NBA history with a career 24+ career PER isn't in the HOF? Not a lot. Not saying great PER = HOF, but there is a correlation to HOF, especially with 5 rings under your belt.

i have no idea and dont care bcuz i know there not voted on based on their PER. OF course a HOF level player would have a good PER but who cares its only a projection of a possible outcome.

Dade County
10-24-2013, 10:05 AM
Say he stays out of injuries and plays like his 2012 form with very good playoff performances and wins 2 more rings in his career as a great 2nd option, making it 5 rings. Do you move him to TOP 15 all time? Say his regular season and playoff PER stays at his regular 25+ during those 2 seasons they win those rings. Is he TOP 15

D Wade is going to finish with 7 to 8 rings... He will be the 2nd best sg ever when all is said and done.

D Wade will be none as, Thee Wade.

Certain injuries have stopped him from reaching certain mile stones career number wise; so it will be hard for people to place him in there top 10 where he would be long... So this is why people you just show him respect, and just call him... Thee Wade.

DerekCzajkowski
10-24-2013, 10:13 AM
Not even top 50 if you consider the past. Top 15 if your talking current gen maybe like 10 years or so

kdspurman
10-24-2013, 10:21 AM
D Wade is going to finish with 7 to 8 rings... He will be the 2nd best sg ever when all is said and done.

D Wade will be none as, Thee Wade.

Certain injuries have stopped him from reaching certain mile stones career number wise; so it will be hard for people to place him in there top 10 where he would be long... So this is why people you just show him respect, and just call him... Thee Wade.

Do you really/actually believe that?

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 10:28 AM
Not even top 50 if you consider the past. Top 15 if your talking current gen maybe like 10 years or so

that's hilarious, leave your personal feelings at home, no way you can look at this mans numbers from the sg position and his play and say he isn't top 50.

Dade County
10-24-2013, 10:35 AM
Do you really/actually believe that?

Mostly wishful thinking on my part...

I think he gets anywhere from 4 - 6 rings (if they win one this year).

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 10:40 AM
wasnt talking about the finals. talking about his career when he took the backseat to James, like i said not top 15 players took the backseat in their prime years

backseat? I think he's been extremely productive playing with james, to say he took a backseat isn't very accurate. and players are judged on their play on the court not on who they played with. he was a beast with shaq, without him, and with LeBron. extremely productive and efficient.

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 10:46 AM
one of 8 playersone of 8 players (Jordan, Robertson, west, Drexler, bird, james, and barry) to ever average 25 5 and 5, and did it shooting 48%, 3 rings, a finals mvp and a scoring title. and he blocked shots like a forward or a center, and didn't do it in the 60s when big men weighed 220 lbs. pretty strong case if you ask me

kdspurman
10-24-2013, 11:02 AM
Mostly wishful thinking on my part...

I think he gets anywhere from 4 - 6 rings (if they win one this year).

I could see that. It'll be interesting to see for sure, i wouldn't put it past them to get 4-5.

mike_noodles
10-24-2013, 11:04 AM
In this day and age, coming into the league as old as he did kind of takes away from his career

At 22? Yeah, I don't think that's the case at all.

2-ONE-5
10-24-2013, 11:40 AM
backseat? I think he's been extremely productive playing with james, to say he took a backseat isn't very accurate. and players are judged on their play on the court not on who they played with. he was a beast with shaq, without him, and with LeBron. extremely productive and efficient.

he even said he didnt want the burden of carrying the team anymore thats why he wanted James (and Bosh) to join him.

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 12:02 PM
he even said he didnt want the burden of carrying the team anymore thats why he wanted James (and Bosh) to join him.

He was alone, no that he was the main guy on a decent team,kind of like Jordan before Pippen. when you have a year and post season like the one he had in 08-09, youd expect a little help to get past the first round.

2-ONE-5
10-24-2013, 12:23 PM
a little hep, yea sure agreed. but he got WAY more than that and i think it takes him out of the top 15 talk. He also is starting to decline pretty fast too

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 12:47 PM
a little hep, yea sure agreed. but he got WAY more than that and i think it takes him out of the top 15 talk. He also is starting to decline pretty fast too

I disagree, its not much different than having kareem and worthy, machale and parrish, or pippen and rodman. plus his best years were without Lebron or Bosh , its not like his production spiked and it hasn't exactly disappeared either. his knees ARE starting to wear him down though, don't know how much longer he'll last.

Bruno
10-24-2013, 01:07 PM
I disagree, its not much different than having kareem and worthy, machale and parrish, or pippen and rodman. plus his best years were without Lebron or Bosh , its not like his production spiked and it hasn't exactly disappeared either. his knees ARE starting to wear him down though, don't know how much longer he'll last.
his production hasn't disappeared but his production has dropped off dramatically.

wade put up 19-4-4 on a TS% of .505 in the finals.

in the post season he scored 10 points or less in 6/22 playoff games (27% of the time). He scored under 20 points in 17/22 playoff games (77% of the time).

he averaged 3.6 free-throw attempts per game in the post-season.

he was -54 in +/- during the NBA finals. Miami was a better team with him on the bench during the most important series of the playoffs. you'd be hard pressed to go find another top 30 all-time talent who was -50 in +/- for a playoff series in which his team still won. One great game and one very good game from Wade in the finals doesn't make up for five poor games or the fact that his team had greater success with him on the bench for the duration of the series.

not taking away from anything he's done in the past but his drop off in production is documented and generally accepted at this point in time.

Hawkeye15
10-24-2013, 01:09 PM
his production hasn't disappeared but his production has dropped off dramatically.

wade put up 19-4-4 on a TS% of .505 in the finals.

in the post season he scored 10 points or less in 6/22 playoff games (27% of the time). He scored under 20 points in 17/22 playoff games (77% of the time).

he averaged 3.6 free-throw attempts per game in the post-season.

he was -54 in +/- during the NBA finals. Miami was a better team with him on the bench during the most important series of the playoffs. you'd be hard pressed to go find another top 30 all-time talent who was -50 in +/- for a playoff series in which his team still won. One great game and one very good game from Wade in the finals doesn't make up for five poor games or the fact that his team had greater success with him on the bench for the duration of the series.

not taking away from anything he's done in the past but his drop off in production is documented and generally accepted at this point in time.

you know this doesn't help the extreme Laker fans on this site when you post that indeed LeBron wasn't working with an 86' Celtics roster in the playoffs, right?

Bruno
10-24-2013, 01:09 PM
LeBron James had a finals +/- of 0, for comparisons sake.

Bruno
10-24-2013, 01:10 PM
you know this doesn't help the extreme Laker fans on this site when you post that indeed LeBron wasn't working with an 86' Celtics roster in the playoffs, right?

i dont care about that.

Bruno
10-24-2013, 01:18 PM
you know this doesn't help the extreme Laker fans on this site when you post that indeed LeBron wasn't working with an 86' Celtics roster in the playoffs, right?

the only thing I could say is that Wade was healthy and producing during the regular season, particularly during the 27 game win streak. That regular season production out of Wade and the rest of the heat is what helped them lock down HCA in the post-season. I don't think Miami wins the championship without HCA, especially against the Spurs. So he certainly had his hand in laying the foundation for their success in the post-season by doing some of the heavy lifting in the regular season, but there's no denying he was injured and that LBJ had to be the MVP he is to get the job done. Miami had the shooters to stay alive when they needed, and they were fortunate enough to be on the winning side of three horrendous coaching blunders which lead to their championship.

this also seems to be the norm, LeBrons teammates almost always see a dramatic drop off in production in the post-season. it happened in Cleveland and in miami. people start ball watching in awe of his brilliance and people stop being as productive under pressure as a result. call that a blessing or a curse, it is what it is. he has more than enough ability to 'make them better' but they seem to disappear year in and year out in terms of an overall statistical production perspective come post-season. *clutch buckets at key moments from Miamis floor spreaders as the only exception. but people seem to remember clutch buckets from Chalmers, Battier, Allen and Miller more than they do their overall stat line and production from the post-season as a while. thats expected.

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 01:25 PM
Do you think he could beat out guys like Big O and West?

Yes

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 01:29 PM
Wade performed plenty awful himself this year, Bron suffered through a similar situation.

Wade killed that year and in the finals

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 01:30 PM
his production hasn't disappeared but his production has dropped off dramatically.

wade put up 19-4-4 on a TS% of .505 in the finals.

in the post season he scored 10 points or less in 6/22 playoff games (27% of the time). He scored under 20 points in 17/22 playoff games (77% of the time).

he averaged 3.6 free-throw attempts per game in the post-season.

he was -54 in +/- during the NBA finals. Miami was a better team with him on the bench during the most important series of the playoffs. you'd be hard pressed to go find another top 30 all-time talent who was -50 in +/- for a playoff series in which his team still won. One great game and one very good game from Wade in the finals doesn't make up for five poor games or the fact that his team had greater success with him on the bench for the duration of the series.

not taking away from anything he's done in the past but his drop off in production is documented and generally accepted at this point in time.

hard to argue, although im not a huge advanced stats fan, but i can agree with what you wrote. lets see if he can bounce back from the knee thing.

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 01:31 PM
his production hasn't disappeared but his production has dropped off dramatically.

wade put up 19-4-4 on a TS% of .505 in the finals.

in the post season he scored 10 points or less in 6/22 playoff games (27% of the time). He scored under 20 points in 17/22 playoff games (77% of the time).

he averaged 3.6 free-throw attempts per game in the post-season.

he was -54 in +/- during the NBA finals. Miami was a better team with him on the bench during the most important series of the playoffs. you'd be hard pressed to go find another top 30 all-time talent who was -50 in +/- for a playoff series in which his team still won. One great game and one very good game from Wade in the finals doesn't make up for five poor games or the fact that his team had greater success with him on the bench for the duration of the series.

not taking away from anything he's done in the past but his drop off in production is documented and generally accepted at this point in time.

All on 1 leg

tredigs
10-24-2013, 01:50 PM
All on 1 leg
Solid movement for one leg! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6Y87o5EUjho#t=130

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 01:53 PM
Solid movement for one leg! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6Y87o5EUjho#t=130

aint it?

hotdalton18
10-24-2013, 01:54 PM
Taking a back seat or not stats don't lie #top15

tredigs
10-24-2013, 01:57 PM
Sometimes I wish Twitter was never invented.

Kashmir13579
10-24-2013, 01:59 PM
Top 30, definitely. Just not enough dominant years in my opinion.

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 02:01 PM
Solid movement for one leg! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6Y87o5EUjho#t=130

Definitely now we'll get to see it on two legs!

ManningToTyree
10-24-2013, 02:08 PM
Sometimes I wish Twitter was never invented. only sometimes?

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 02:39 PM
Third best shooting guard ever as of now could move higher depending on what happens in the future

Kashmir13579
10-24-2013, 02:45 PM
At 22? Yeah, I don't think that's the case at all.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think he played all four years at Marquette. Thats probably what he meant.

Kobe2324
10-24-2013, 03:13 PM
I say it's to late for that...he has the rings that can kind of bring him into the debate but the stats arent there....top 25 slight chance top 50 maybe top 100 I say yes...

Bruno
10-24-2013, 03:16 PM
hard to argue, although im not a huge advanced stats fan, but i can agree with what you wrote. lets see if he can bounce back from the knee thing.
i think he can they just need to manage his minutes. its just a bummer for him to get knocked for his post-season when he did so well in the regular season, but you have to; it has to be noted. they need to figure out a way to manage his minutes properly. there's no reason for him to play more than 70 in the regular season. last year is the last year this Miami team can/could get away with an injured wade during the post-season. that won't result in victory this year against Chicago, Brooklyn or Indy. Wade needs Duncan minutes at this point, he'll be 32 by the post-season. play him 30 during the regs and first round, 35 in the later rounds and keep your fingers crossed.


All on 1 leg

ive seen better performances on one leg...

Bruno
10-24-2013, 03:18 PM
I say it's to late for that...he has the rings that can kind of bring him into the debate but the stats arent there....top 25 slight chance top 50 maybe top 100 I say yes...

Wade peak was too dominant for him to be anywhere outside of the top 30, IMO (and were not talking about a one year peak either...). his finals run in 2006 was dominant and although his cumulative stats and later year rings aren't going to measure up, his peak finals MVP and peak stats do. I think Wades a lock for top 30 if he retired today.

Chronz
10-24-2013, 03:19 PM
I say it's to late for that...he has the rings that can kind of bring him into the debate but the stats arent there....top 25 slight chance top 50 maybe top 100 I say yes...

r u joking?

Kobe2324
10-24-2013, 03:23 PM
chance he could move up??? next on the list is Kobe who almost has twice the amount of points and two more rings now even assuming he catches Kobe in rings you cant possibly believe that he is close in anyway, they are only 4 years apart in age wade is not going to score 15k points in 4 years, plus kobe is still going to add to that total as well, and I sure hope you didnt think he would move past Jordan on the list which Kobe himself does not have a chance to catch, I would not rank him third now but potential is there for 3rd, he has 0 chance at moving up the list if your ranking him 3rd...

Kobe2324
10-24-2013, 03:25 PM
r u joking?

im sure you can name 25 players in under 2 min that are better than Wade all time...thats not even hard, 50 i admit is a bit more dificult

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 03:25 PM
r u joking?

lol that's what I'm saying

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 03:32 PM
I'll just say f Wade never got injured after the first championship he won he would be second best without a doubt in my mind

http://fans.heat.nba.com/community/index.php?/topic/18276-a-ten-year-comparison-of-wade-and-bryant/

If they played the same number of games it's pretty clear

Kobe2324
10-24-2013, 03:32 PM
lol that's what I'm saying

So are you saying hes not top 100?

WaDe03
10-24-2013, 03:36 PM
So are you saying hes not top 100?

I'm saying you should've just left off the part about top 100 and 50 he's top 25 right now for sure

Kobe2324
10-24-2013, 03:36 PM
I'll just say f Wade never got injured after the first championship he won he would be second best without a doubt in my mind

http://fans.heat.nba.com/community/index.php?/topic/18276-a-ten-year-comparison-of-wade-and-bryant/

If they played the same number of games it's pretty clear

but that's like saying if Kobe was drafted to a **** team like Wade was he would have 10k more points right, cant use what if's, just like if Kobe cant make a comeback from this injury and had to retire tomorrow, What if he had played till 40 years old.... it's easy to say what if but the comment was he can move up on the list and based on current fact Kobe could retire now and Wade still couldn't catch him ....and we all know Kobe got gas left in the tank anyways but it's a bad injury for sure

Kobe2324
10-24-2013, 03:39 PM
I'm saying you should've just left off the part about top 100 and 50 he's top 25 right now for sure

yes but the thread is top 15 GOAT...im not saying wade is not top 25 right now because he is, but all time it's really hard to squeeze him in the top 50 all time when you really think of all the amazing players that have played in this league

Tony_Starks
10-24-2013, 04:23 PM
If you can put up 20 a game in the finals and a manage to singlehandedly come through in a swing game on one leg that's pretty damn good in my estimation. Remember his 30pt game after everyone was saying he was done?

People act like D Wade is finished or something, a gimpy D Wade is still better than 90% of the sg in the league. Healthy Wade is only second to KB24.

Dade County
10-24-2013, 04:41 PM
If you can put up 20 a game in the finals and a manage to singlehandedly come through in a swing game on one leg that's pretty damn good in my estimation. Remember his 30pt game after everyone was saying he was done?

People act like D Wade is finished or something, a gimpy D Wade is still better than 90% of the sg in the league. Healthy Wade is only second to KB24.

no he's not... Wade has been better then kobe for a very long time now... it's just most fans don't see it that way. Kobe left his prime years along time ago.

Tony_Starks
10-24-2013, 04:46 PM
no he's not... When has been better then kobe for a very long time now... it's just most fans don't see it that way. Kobe left his prime years ago.

Damn man you can't even take a compliment for your boy? Outside of Miami Kobe has been acknowledged as the best sg for over a decade by the majority, even the haters.

But anyway I don't want to derail it, my point is Wade is still very nice when healthy and still allstar caliber when hurt.

canefandynasty
10-24-2013, 06:10 PM
If you can put up 20 a game in the finals and a manage to singlehandedly come through in a swing game on one leg that's pretty damn good in my estimation. Remember his 30pt game after everyone was saying he was done?

People act like D Wade is finished or something, a gimpy D Wade is still better than 90% of the sg in the league. Healthy Wade is only second to KB24.
Wade has been better than Kobe since 2009, and was better than Kobe in 2006. Kobe wasn't the two-way player Wade is since his 2004 season. Even if you want to give Kobe the offensive advantage, Wades superior defense more than closes the gap overall. Kobe has better longevity but Wades peak was at least as good as Kobe. Wade could end up winning more rings than Kobe by the end of their careers. If Wade goes on to win 2-3 more rings with decent performances in RS and playoffs, he is TOP 15 no doubt

Tony_Starks
10-24-2013, 06:24 PM
Wade has been better than Kobe since 2009, and was better than Kobe in 2006. Kobe wasn't the two-way player Wade is since his 2004 season. Even if you want to give Kobe the offensive advantage, Wades superior defense more than closes the gap overall. Kobe has better longevity but Wades peak was at least as good as Kobe. Wade could end up winning more rings than Kobe by the end of their careers. If Wade goes on to win 2-3 more rings with decent performances in RS and playoffs, he is TOP 15 no doubt

30 gms and the majority of the civilized sports world have disagreed with you for the last 12 years.

How many 1st team all defense does Wade have? 1st team all NBA? Mvps? Finals mvps? Rings? What did Wade put up last year? What did old Kobe man put up last year? Facts.

Anyways, only on psd can you give Wade props and people still get their feathers ruffled because you say he's only second to Kobe ( when both are healthy).

Bruno
10-24-2013, 07:43 PM
Wade has been better than Kobe since 2009, and was better than Kobe in 2006. Kobe wasn't the two-way player Wade is since his 2004 season. Even if you want to give Kobe the offensive advantage, Wades superior defense more than closes the gap overall. Kobe has better longevity but Wades peak was at least as good as Kobe. Wade could end up winning more rings than Kobe by the end of their careers. If Wade goes on to win 2-3 more rings with decent performances in RS and playoffs, he is TOP 15 no doubt
kobe had better numbers in the 2009 post-season and went on to win finals MVP.

Kobe2324
10-24-2013, 08:07 PM
some people....

Shammyguy3
10-24-2013, 08:37 PM
Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hakeem Olajuwan, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Bill Russell, Moses Malone, Oscar Robertson
Jerry West, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Julius Erving

that's 18 right there; i can't see Wade passing any of those guys. I think Wade's a lock for top-25 though, will probably end up in the top-20.

Dade County
10-24-2013, 09:01 PM
kobe had better numbers in the 2009 post-season and went on to win finals MVP.

ummm... better team & he obviously played more playoff games then Wade that year.

FlashBolt
10-24-2013, 09:05 PM
Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hakeem Olajuwan, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird
Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Bill Russell, Moses Malone, Oscar Robertson
Jerry West, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Julius Erving

that's 18 right there; i can't see Wade passing any of those guys. I think Wade's a lock for top-25 though, will probably end up in the top-20.

West, Malone, Barkley, Russell? Sorry, what did Russell do that was so impressive?

Tony_Starks
10-24-2013, 09:11 PM
West, Malone, Barkley, Russell? Sorry, what did Russell do that was so impressive?

This literally made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

Shammyguy3
10-24-2013, 09:15 PM
west, malone, barkley, russell? Sorry, what did russell do that was so impressive?

c.b.s.?

Heatcheck
10-24-2013, 09:17 PM
what "everyone" says is irrelevant, because sheeple will generally just follow the leader, in most cases the loudest guy in the room. the misconception of Chauncey Billups being "mr. Big Shot" despite his HORRENDOUS record taking the last shot is evidence of this. Its kind of hard to look at the numbers and say either was better than the other. plus wade isn't done yet, might be in a year or two because of the knee, but that's speculation.

Hawkeye15
10-24-2013, 09:22 PM
the only thing I could say is that Wade was healthy and producing during the regular season, particularly during the 27 game win streak. That regular season production out of Wade and the rest of the heat is what helped them lock down HCA in the post-season. I don't think Miami wins the championship without HCA, especially against the Spurs. So he certainly had his hand in laying the foundation for their success in the post-season by doing some of the heavy lifting in the regular season, but there's no denying he was injured and that LBJ had to be the MVP he is to get the job done. Miami had the shooters to stay alive when they needed, and they were fortunate enough to be on the winning side of three horrendous coaching blunders which lead to their championship.

this also seems to be the norm, LeBrons teammates almost always see a dramatic drop off in production in the post-season. it happened in Cleveland and in miami. people start ball watching in awe of his brilliance and people stop being as productive under pressure as a result. call that a blessing or a curse, it is what it is. he has more than enough ability to 'make them better' but they seem to disappear year in and year out in terms of an overall statistical production perspective come post-season. *clutch buckets at key moments from Miamis floor spreaders as the only exception. but people seem to remember clutch buckets from Chalmers, Battier, Allen and Miller more than they do their overall stat line and production from the post-season as a while. thats expected.

so even great players have expected LeBron to just take over. Agreed. Which is why I truly believe he is not only difficult to rank, but will easily finish top 5 ever.

Hawkeye15
10-24-2013, 09:26 PM
West, Malone, Barkley, Russell? Sorry, what did Russell do that was so impressive?

you have to be kidding. All 4 are easily above Wade right now. EASILY

Chronz
10-24-2013, 10:20 PM
Wade killed that year and in the finals

Nah man, all he did was muck up the floor for Bron and hold the team back.

Fnom11
10-24-2013, 10:30 PM
im sure you can name 25 players in under 2 min that are better than Wade all time...thats not even hard, 50 i admit is a bit more dificult

I'm fairly certain PSD has him ranked near #27 last year, before his great regular season he had last year and his 3rd ring. He's definitely top 30 all time with potential to move up with a solid healthy finish to his career imo.

canefandynasty
10-24-2013, 10:32 PM
you have to be kidding. All 4 are easily above Wade right now. EASILY

Wade led his team to a championship as the main guy, something that Barkley never did. Barkley was never seen as a team player in the eyes of those who played around him, so his lack of titles was inevitable to begin with. Wade could play both alpha dog and complementary player-- a type of player that was coach able and could adjust his game to any type of team philosophy. I wouldnt put Barkley above Wade. To say Barkley is EASILY above Wade is absurd. It's not like he played on another level, even if you thought he was better.

Bruno
10-24-2013, 10:32 PM
so even great players have expected LeBron to just take over. Agreed. Which is why I truly believe he is not only difficult to rank, but will easily finish top 5 ever.

i see where you're coming, and it is telling. But but i'd rather rank him strictly based off his production and accomplishments opposed to saying hey- a hobbled and aging wade deferred to him as a point of strong justification. He very well could retire top five but he has a lot to accomplish (as well as a lot of time). you know he needs a few more rings and to continue accumulating the statistics. but he's an iron man, no reason to believe that legendary cumulatives won't be reality five or six years from now.

unfortunately, 2011 was the first and only year we were able to see how a truly healthy wade and LBJ could have meshed.

Bruno
10-24-2013, 10:36 PM
ummm... better team & he obviously played more playoff games then Wade that year.

what does that have to do with Kobe racking a higher WS/48 in the post season? i'm not talking cumulative, thats a given.

Fnom11
10-24-2013, 10:37 PM
i see where you're coming, and it is telling. But but i'd rather rank him strictly based off his production and accomplishments opposed to saying hey- a hobbled and aging wade deferred to him as a point of strong justification. He very well could retire top five but he has a lot to accomplish (as well as a lot of time). you know he needs a few more rings and to continue accumulating the statistics. but he's an iron man, no reason to believe that legendary cumulatives won't be reality five or six years from now.

unfortunately, 2011 was the first and only year we were able to see how a truly healthy wade and LBJ could have meshed.
It was quite beautiful up until the Finals when Lebron decided to let his power's get taken by the MonStars

Bruno
10-24-2013, 10:37 PM
Barkley vs Wade is interesting. Wade needs a few more years without breaking down and I think he might have him.

Bruno
10-24-2013, 10:39 PM
It was quite beautiful up until the Finals when Lebron decided to let his power's get taken by the MonStars

yeah man, it was a Delilah/Sampson moment for sure. LBJs struggle as an elite player has been completely mental; he has zero physical limitations. he didn't become a 'man' until 2012. and honestly, most don't before they're 28 in the real world either. at least in todays society.

Supreme LA
10-24-2013, 11:02 PM
yeah man, it was a Delilah/Sampson moment for sure. LBJs struggle as an elite player has been completely mental; he has zero physical limitations. he didn't become a 'man' until 2012. and honestly, most don't before they're 28 in the real world either. at least in todays society.

So true. I'm a man, and I'm 40! Didn't fully mature until 27 or so.

WaDe03
10-25-2013, 12:55 AM
yes but the thread is top 15 GOAT...im not saying wade is not top 25 right now because he is, but all time it's really hard to squeeze him in the top 50 all time when you really think of all the amazing players that have played in this league

I meant that as Wade is top 25 ever but that's just me he's great overall and unstoppable as well as the best shot blocking guard ever

WaDe03
10-25-2013, 01:01 AM
Nah man, all he did was muck up the floor for Bron and hold the team back.

no haha LeBron was nowhere to be found that year in the finals

Supreme LA
10-25-2013, 01:13 AM
I meant that as Wade is top 25 ever but that's just me he's great overall and unstoppable as well as the best shot blocking guard ever

He's not the greatest shot blocking guard ever. MJ was actually at better rim protector head up. Wade would be considered the best weak side help shot blocker ever because that's all he really goes for. That's pretty much his style though. Terrible one on one defender but great at playing passing lanes for steals and great at help defense for shot blocks. That is more accurate.

WaDe03
10-25-2013, 01:19 AM
He's not the greatest shot blocking guard ever. MJ was actually at better rim protector head up. Wade would be considered the best weak side help shot blocker ever because that's all he really goes for. That's pretty much his style though. Terrible one on one defender but great at playing passing lanes for steals and great at help defense for shot blocks. That is more accurate.

He's definitely the greatest shot blocking guard ever hands down not even debatable that's more accurate

Supreme LA
10-25-2013, 01:49 AM
He's definitely the greatest shot blocking guard ever hands down not even debatable that's more accurate

Well, of course you would say that.

Heatcheck
10-25-2013, 09:33 AM
Well, of course you would say that.

yeah that's ********, but if Jordan wasn't the shot blocker he was, itd be wade hands down.

Heatcheck
10-25-2013, 09:48 AM
I dont want to turn this into a LeBron discussion, but a lot of you are ignoring the fact that basketballs a team sport as far as that first finals with LeBron and wade. the heat were a makeshift team,with GLARING (I don't think theres a strong enough word) holes at center and pg especially on defense for the pg. Erik dampier couldn't jump over a credit card by that time and was terrible, and Bibby couldn't guard his own shadow and was non existent on offense, I think chalmers stepped up on game offensively. Hence barrea and terry went ape ****. for matchups sake, you cant put your best player to chance a bunch of midgets around the whole game plus we wouldn't have anyone to guard the 3 considering miller was the backup.
and on the offensive end, they had chandler shadow LeBron, who admittedly wasn't as versatile back then, and everywhere he went, that's the side the dpoy was standing at, plus whomever was defending him, which is why wade had such a good series. they try that nowadays and LeBron will probably shoot their lights outs.

In my eyes, that TEAM had no business getting to the finals to begin with, but the talent at the top was good enough to get it there. Dallas was just much better put together, the pieces fit, and everyone did their job and then some, so much credit to them.

Could he have done more? in theory maybe, but not with the tools he had at the time, and when you miss the ridiculous amounts of free throws he and wade missed, there really isn't much else to do.

Heatcheck
10-25-2013, 09:52 AM
one last thing I never got to touch on at the time, all this ******** about Pop blowing it is ABSURD. as a coach, you don't play, your job is to put your team in the best position to win. giving wade and bron the jumper as opposed to letting them abuse a 40 year old and a French guy in the paint was their best bet, and when they were up 3-2 no one was saying ****, because it was working. then LeBron drops 30 something on straight jumpers, which I personally never seen him do before, and now he screwed it up for everyone.

FlashBolt
10-25-2013, 01:23 PM
one last thing I never got to touch on at the time, all this ******** about Pop blowing it is ABSURD. as a coach, you don't play, your job is to put your team in the best position to win. giving wade and bron the jumper as opposed to letting them abuse a 40 year old and a French guy in the paint was their best bet, and when they were up 3-2 no one was saying ****, because it was working. then LeBron drops 30 something on straight jumpers, which I personally never seen him do before, and now he screwed it up for everyone.

Amen. People forget that Spurs were up. Miami just performed when it mattered most. Spurs let opportunity and opportunity go while Miami took advantage. Simple as that.

canefandynasty
10-25-2013, 01:39 PM
He's not the greatest shot blocking guard ever. MJ was actually at better rim protector head up. Wade would be considered the best weak side help shot blocker ever because that's all he really goes for. That's pretty much his style though. Terrible one on one defender but great at playing passing lanes for steals and great at help defense for shot blocks. That is more accurate.
You don't know ***** about Wade

Lakersfan2483
10-25-2013, 02:09 PM
No, he's on the decline. He's a first ballot hall of famer, top 5 shooting guard of all time, however not a top 15 player of all time and won't get there.

P&GRealist
10-25-2013, 03:00 PM
Top 25 is more realistic, ceiling top 20.

Shammyguy3
10-25-2013, 03:28 PM
Jordan - 893 career blocks, 0.8bpg, 0.8 blocks per 36, 1.4blk%
Wade - 667 career blocks, 1.0bpg, 1.0 blocks per 36, 2.2blk%

P&GRealist
10-25-2013, 03:44 PM
^Um, Wade is an exceptional weak side shot blocker, but he's not even 1/10th of the one-on-one defender that Michael was. Not even close.

WaDe03
10-25-2013, 04:00 PM
Do y'all have him at least in your top 1000 or does he not even compare to players like Luke Walton and Kwame Brown

beliges
10-25-2013, 04:14 PM
He's definitely the greatest shot blocking guard ever hands down not even debatable that's more accurate

Thats a silly statement to make. He's definitely up there but to say stuff like "hands down" and "not even debatable" is just silly. He's definitely ONE OF the greatest shot blocking guards to play.

Nonetheless, Wade will never be a top 15 player as his best years are behind him and he has not done enough to oust some of the others who have earned that spot. I would rank him as probably the 5th greatest SG to ever play the game and one of the best players of this past generation. Definite top 25, but not 15.

canefandynasty
10-25-2013, 04:15 PM
Do y'all have him at least in your top 1000 or does he not even compare to players like Luke Walton and Kwame Brown

You have to understand 90% of fans on here are LeBron/Kobe/Dirk homers-- all of whom do not like Wade. The few objective fans on here aren't as dismissive to this question as the haters. They usually follow their opinion with objective reasoning, and not just make claims w/o backing it up.

Shammyguy3
10-25-2013, 04:17 PM
^Um, Wade is an exceptional weak side shot blocker, but he's not even 1/10th of the one-on-one defender that Michael was. Not even close.

Did anyone say that Wade was as good or even half the defender that Jordan was overall? I sure didn't.

Chronz
10-25-2013, 04:23 PM
Jerry West was a sick shot blocker too

P&GRealist
10-25-2013, 04:42 PM
^^I would say the guy in your video Tracy McGrady was an equally or even better shot blocker than Wade.

Wade career 1.0 BPG with highest 1.3 blockers per game (twice) and lowest 0.6 blocks per game (rookie season)

McGrady career 0.9 BPG with highest 1.9 blocks per game, followed by 1.5 blockers per game and then 1.3 blocks per game. Lowest 0.3 blocks per game (twice, both seasons after microsurgery).


Wade is the best weak side shot blocker I've seen, but there are guys who were better overall shot blockers (meaning weak side + one-on-one straight up blockers). McGrady was a better overall shot blocker than Wade.

Tony_Starks
10-25-2013, 04:46 PM
yeah man, it was a Delilah/Sampson moment for sure. LBJs struggle as an elite player has been completely mental; he has zero physical limitations. he didn't become a 'man' until 2012. and honestly, most don't before they're 28 in the real world either. at least in todays society.

Lebron himself said in the interview with Broussard recently that he started losing his confidence in his shot again against the Spurs in the finals. Games 1-3 when he was afraid to shoot. So like you said with him it's all mental, something a lot of people have been saying for years but got accused of being haters for saying it.....

Chronz
10-25-2013, 05:10 PM
^^I would say the guy in your video Tracy McGrady was an equally or even better shot blocker than Wade.

Wade career 1.0 BPG with highest 1.3 blockers per game (twice) and lowest 0.6 blocks per game (rookie season)

McGrady career 0.9 BPG with highest 1.9 blocks per game, followed by 1.5 blockers per game and then 1.3 blocks per game. Lowest 0.3 blocks per game (twice, both seasons after microsurgery).


Wade is the best weak side shot blocker I've seen, but there are guys who were better overall shot blockers (meaning weak side + one-on-one straight up blockers). McGrady was a better overall shot blocker than Wade.

LOL Yea but Tmac wasn't your typical SG. He used to play Center sometimes his teams were so ******

Lord Leoshes
10-25-2013, 05:28 PM
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