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Mile High Champ
10-09-2013, 02:23 PM
Hey guys, It is that time of year again! Once again we kick of the PSD NBA Off-Season Player Rankings. This is the 6th year I have done this on PSD and it always brings some great discussion and debate. Please keep things civil and discuss who you feel is most fitting and deserving of being voted in each poll.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron James and the Miami Heat are back to back NBA champions after an exciting 7 game series win over the Spurs. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 5 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.


In terms of adding players to the poll, it will be done like this.

As soon as Tony Parkerl goes off the board, I will add other PG's.
As soon as Dwyane Wade goes off the board, I will add other SG's
As soon as Kevin Love goes off the board, I will add other PF's.

And so on and so on..

This is to ensure that players that won their respective positions get a higher place in the list. One of the goals of these polls is to maintain some continuity between the polls we completed to the final player poll we are currently voting.

2013 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Chris Paul
4) Tim Duncan
5) James Harden
6) Kobe Bryant
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
14)
15)


2012 NBA Off-Season Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Kevin Durant
3) Dwight Howard
4) Chris Paul
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dwyane Wade
7) Kevin Love
8) Derrick Rose
9) Dirk Nowitzki
10) Russell Westbrook
11) Carmelo Anthony
12) Deron Williams
13) Andrew Bynum
14) Rajon Rondo
15) Tony Parker & Kevin Garnett

2011 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Lebron James
2) Dwight Howard
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dirk Nowitzki
6) Kobe Bryant
7) Kevin Durant
8) Derrick Rose
9) Deron Williams
10) Carmelo Anthony

2010 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwyane Wade
4) Kevin Durant
5) Chris Paul
6) Dwight Howard
7) Carmelo Anthony
8) Dirk Nowitzki
9) Deron Williams
10) Tim Duncan - Pau Gasol Tie


2009 Off-Season Best Player Rankings

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Minimal
10-09-2013, 02:32 PM
Melo

Jetsguy
10-09-2013, 02:50 PM
Melo

xxplayerxx23
10-09-2013, 05:19 PM
I was thinking melo

tredigs
10-09-2013, 05:39 PM
I'd take my chances with Howard.

Kashmir13579
10-09-2013, 06:10 PM
I'm voting 'Melo. He had a great year by his standards, while players we've previously ranked ahead of him took steps back.

SugeKnight
10-09-2013, 06:19 PM
Tony Parker again

Hawkeye15
10-09-2013, 07:42 PM
tp

NYKnicks4511
10-09-2013, 08:16 PM
With Carmelo you have a puncher's chance in any series, including against the Heat. I love me some Tony Parker, but given both of their defensive deficiencies, give me the 6'8'' guy with a complete offensive game over a shoot-first PG whose success is partially the product of a system that he plays in (if you've watched bball breakdown).

Bruno
10-09-2013, 08:53 PM
I'm rewarding Carmelo for the best season of his career. he had a great year. i'd vote Parker next.

Bruno
10-09-2013, 08:54 PM
With Carmelo you have a puncher's chance in any series, including against the Heat. I love me some Tony Parker, but given both of their defensive deficiencies, give me the 6'8'' guy with a complete offensive game over a shoot-first PG whose success is partially the product of a system that he plays in (if you've watched bball breakdown).
this is kind of how i feel too, but i think parker would be great in any system, just with less slightly less team success than he usually has with the spurs.

alexander_37
10-09-2013, 09:36 PM
It's Howard or TP. Melo can duke it out with Wade for #9.

Minimal
10-10-2013, 01:54 AM
Russell Westbrook should be in the mix too.

4milesperday
10-10-2013, 09:49 AM
You know this whole thing is useless when Harden is regarded as a better player than Wade, Howard and Melo. LMAO...most of y'all don't even watch Harden play, you just watch his highlights and think that's the whole game.

4milesperday
10-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Harden 5th best in NBA? didn't know this site and people that post here are that big of a joke.

4milesperday
10-10-2013, 09:54 AM
Also, what has CP3 done to be continually regarded better than Wade? When does winning have a negative connotation? Don't treat Duncan/Kobe one way and then treat Wade another way...all 3 deserve to be ranked in top 5 based on their accomplishments. Sorry, Harden and Cp3 have not done anything when it counts...that's the way you judge a good player. Not one that shoots below .4 in the play-offs and then called 5th best player...what are you people smoking.

nycericanguy
10-10-2013, 09:59 AM
With Carmelo you have a puncher's chance in any series, including against the Heat. I love me some Tony Parker, but given both of their defensive deficiencies, give me the 6'8'' guy with a complete offensive game over a shoot-first PG whose success is partially the product of a system that he plays in (if you've watched bball breakdown).

Pretty much, Melo can take over games and series... Harden isn't better than him yet.

JLynn943
10-10-2013, 10:37 AM
You know this whole thing is useless when Harden is regarded as a better player than Wade, Howard and Melo. LMAO...most of y'all don't even watch Harden play, you just watch his highlights and think that's the whole game.

I agree. Harden is a very good young player who should only get better, but right now he's definitely overrated by people on here. Bad defense and takes a ton of bad/forced shots.

BklynKnicks3
10-10-2013, 10:47 AM
Melo being 7th is a disgrace. What did Kobe do last year to be above Melo. Worse team record with better talent. Didn't play in the playoffs because injury, injury has to count or else Rose should be top 10. How is Harden ahead of Melo based on what? Melo and harden have similar talent around them Melo went further. Won scoring title what did harden do????? Tim Duncan is not top 12 right now 4th lol. He is still a all star but he is not a superstar anymore

Minimal
10-10-2013, 11:09 AM
Well yeah this list became a joke after Harden went 5th on it.
IMO thats the right way the top players should go after last season:
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Tim Duncan
5. Carmelo Anthony
6. Russell Westbrook
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Dwyane Wade
9. Tony Parker
10. Dwight Howard

NYKnickFanatic
10-10-2013, 11:19 AM
Well yeah this list became a joke after Harden went 5th on it.
IMO thats the right way the top players should go after last season:
1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Tim Duncan
5. Carmelo Anthony
6. Russell Westbrook
7. Kobe Bryant
8. Dwyane Wade
9. Tony Parker
10. Dwight Howard

Yeah, this new way of listing the players is silly.

ManningToTyree
10-10-2013, 11:23 AM
I think its about time Melo came off the board. Best season of his career, won a scoring tittle. You can make an argument for TP, but Melo is more dominant at what he does best.

BklynKnicks3
10-10-2013, 12:32 PM
I don't get how in the world Duncan is 4th people need rehab

tredigs
10-10-2013, 12:47 PM
I don't get how in the world Duncan is 4th people need rehab

Totally, it's like - can he even make a crossover fadeaway?! Don't think so. #Melo

BklynKnicks3
10-10-2013, 01:20 PM
Duncan is th ebest pf ever but at this point he is probably not the best player on spurs don't get me wrong he still a top 3 or pf but 4th best player in the nba he is not
Totally, it's like - can he even make a crossover fadeaway?! Don't think so. #Melo

Chronz
10-10-2013, 02:21 PM
Duncan is th ebest pf ever but at this point he is probably not the best player on spurs don't get me wrong he still a top 3 or pf but 4th best player in the nba he is not

By your own admission, probably not the best can also mean hes arguably the best player on the team that came oh so close to winning another chip and had it done so, he would have hoisted yet another FMVP. Thats far better than anything Melo has done last year.

What Melo has going for him is that he can carry a team during the RS, Duncan cant log +34mpg for the full 82 grind. But some of us like to put more importance on how that player helps you in the playoffs. Duncan is a superior 2-way player come postseason. If he were still in his prime this wouldn't even come close, but because hes past his prime, his superiority is only slightly obvious.

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 03:07 PM
Melo for president

Kashmir13579
10-10-2013, 05:18 PM
With 'Melo winning #7 BklynKnicks should be happy.

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 05:20 PM
With 'Melo winning #7 BklynKnicks should be happy.

never, unless hes #1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2kxlZDOHeQ

Kashmir13579
10-10-2013, 05:23 PM
^ true

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 05:30 PM
Im kool with Melo 5-7, hes such a fun player to watch, I scratch my head a lot, but even on the nuggets I loved watching my cuse guy, he gets too much flak, he is what he is, the hate comes from fans way overarating the dude, I think its more knick fan hate than Melo the player hate

Melo belongs 5-7 and not just MHC listing

My MVP :smoking:

jimm120
10-10-2013, 05:39 PM
MOst of the "hate" is after he came to NY.

But also because he's compared to Lebron. Melo is a top 10 player with top 5 talent. Unfortunately, he can play like the #7 guy int he league and the write up would still be that "he doesn't do this or that like Lebron, so that's why he's so low"...but he's in fact no low....its just comparing anyone to Lebron...c'mon...

Kashmir13579
10-10-2013, 05:47 PM
Im kool with Melo 5-7, hes such a fun player to watch, I scratch my head a lot, but even on the nuggets I loved watching my cuse guy, he gets too much flak, he is what he is, the hate comes from fans way overarating the dude, I think its more knick fan hate than Melo the player hate

Melo belongs 5-7 and not just MHC listing

My MVP :smoking:
'Melo is a fun player to watch, when he is a fun player to watch.

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 05:51 PM
'Melo is a fun player to watch, when he is a fun player to watch.

more often than not my dude

give it up

Kashmir13579
10-10-2013, 05:52 PM
more often than not my dude

give it up

He's 1-1 right now. 1 dud and 1 stud.

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 05:57 PM
He's 1-1 right now. 1 dud and 1 stud.

His back hurts from carrying me you and the rest of the NYK forum through over achievement last season

Hes a product of what he has around him, what do you want a morph into LBJ not happening

Chronz
10-10-2013, 06:25 PM
MOst of the "hate" is after he came to NY.

But also because he's compared to Lebron. Melo is a top 10 player with top 5 talent. Unfortunately, he can play like the #7 guy int he league and the write up would still be that "he doesn't do this or that like Lebron, so that's why he's so low"...but he's in fact no low....its just comparing anyone to Lebron...c'mon...
I think you just started realizing the "hate" once he wound up in NY. I literally never hear this complaint from people who aren't from NY. To me, hes been getting the same hate for the same reasons for ever now. I know on my end, Ive disliked his hype from day 1 and I dont think it was because I compared him to Bron. I actually like him as a player, I just dont think hes as good as his fans suggest. At least not until this past year, when I can actually buy him as a top10 player.

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 06:27 PM
I think you just started realizing the "hate" once he wound up in NY. I literally never hear this complaint from people who aren't from NY. To me, hes been getting the same hate for the same reasons for ever now. I know on my end, Ive disliked his hype from day 1 and I dont think it was because I compared him to Bron. I actually like him as a player, I just dont think hes as good as his fans suggest. At least not until this past year, when I can actually buy him as a top10 player.

Exactly, melo hate is a correlation to his fan bases fervor

tredigs
10-10-2013, 06:57 PM
I think you just started realizing the "hate" once he wound up in NY. I literally never hear this complaint from people who aren't from NY[/B]. To me, hes been getting the same hate for the same reasons for ever now. I know on my end, Ive disliked his hype from day 1 and I dont think it was because I compared him to Bron. I actually like him as a player, I just dont think hes as good as his fans suggest. At least not until this past year, when I can actually buy him as a top10 player.
I've basically written this post a few times, it echoes my thoughts on his situation to a T. The problem is that New York fans are filled with narcissists (it's in their blood, what can I say), and think we care about what team he plays in judging his on court play. It's my guess that many are also ultra defensive of him as he's basically the Knicks only superstar player many of these young NY fans have known.

D-Leethal
10-10-2013, 07:02 PM
I do think for some apparent reason Melo gets blasted for things like his defense by the same people who laud Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki to no end and conveniently never mention those same defensive flaws. Those are the things that make you wonder. Also when you see general consensus on guys like Gallo go from overrated role player to tremendous young talent/rising all star pretty much overnight the second he leaves NYK.

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 07:07 PM
why is fan hate being factored into true evaluation of a player on the nba forum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oaVN0PXwHo

Hawkeye15
10-10-2013, 07:49 PM
wow. I wouldn't take Melo over a single other player listed.

alexander_37
10-10-2013, 07:59 PM
wow. I wouldn't take Melo over a single other player listed.

Same here, sorry but Melo is fairly overrated.

Jesse2272
10-10-2013, 08:05 PM
wow. I wouldn't take Melo over a single other player listed.

where do you put melo if not on NY and having to deal with the NY fan base diatrabe

b@llhog24
10-10-2013, 08:18 PM
wow. I wouldn't take Melo over a single other player listed.

Strictly based off of last season? You should.

nycericanguy
10-10-2013, 10:05 PM
Same here, sorry but Melo is fairly overrated.

Look at the roster he's had in NY, and realize that he took that in Melo led games the past 2 years NY is 52-19. He's never had a Wade, or Bosh, or Westbrook, or even a Blake...

Rose takes CHI to that record he's the MVP... Melo does it, he's overrated.

Kashmir13579
10-10-2013, 11:39 PM
I've basically written this post a few times, it echoes my thoughts on his situation to a T. The problem is that New York fans are filled with narcissists (it's in their blood, what can I say), and think we care about what team he plays in judging his on court play. It's my guess that many are also ultra defensive of him as he's basically the Knicks only superstar player many of these young NY fans have known.
We have more fans than your team. That equals more bad eggs. Its funny because chronz' post says nothing to suggest he thinks Knicks fans are narcissists, yet thats how you follow up your submission of agreement. Sorry, but that doesn't follow. I'm a diehard Knicks fan and i talk to other Knicks fans EVERYDAY, fans who don't drink the proverbial kool aid when it comes to 'Melo and other matters. Your attitude towards Knicks fans is both ignorant and hateful.

tredigs
10-11-2013, 02:15 AM
We have more fans than your team. That equals more bad eggs. Its funny because chronz' post says nothing to suggest he thinks Knicks fans are narcissists, yet thats how you follow up your submission of agreement. Sorry, but that doesn't follow. I'm a diehard Knicks fan and i talk to other Knicks fans EVERYDAY, fans who don't drink the proverbial kool aid when it comes to 'Melo and other matters. Your attitude towards Knicks fans is both ignorant and hateful.
Spare me. I know New Yorkers and their sports fandom all too well. Trust me. Of course it has to do with there being more of them and more 'bad eggs' as a result, but if you think the ratio of Denver fans who spouted off that "the only reason you guyz hate on Melo is because he's a Nugget" (which, there was no shortage of criticism of as you know) equals that of the New York fan, you're kidding yourself. I call it as I see it. The criticism of his game is the same (actually less so - after the very solid year he just put together), but the whining of "you hate him because he's NEW YORK!" has never been more rampant.

It's not all - not by a long shot - but it's a very loud minority that's in disproportionate amount in relation to virtually any other fanbase. They think others care far more than reality. It's narcissism through and through. And typical of New Yorkers in general frankly.

Jesse2272
10-11-2013, 04:05 AM
Spare me. I know New Yorkers and their sports fandom all too well. Trust me. Of course it has to do with there being more of them and more 'bad eggs' as a result, but if you think the ratio of Denver fans who spouted off that "the only reason you guyz hate on Melo is because he's a Nugget" (which, there was no shortage of criticism of as you know) equals that of the New York fan, you're kidding yourself. I call it as I see it. The criticism of his game is the same (actually less so - after the very solid year he just put together), but the whining of "you hate him because he's NEW YORK!" has never been more rampant.

It's not all - not by a long shot - but it's a very loud minority that's in disproportionate amount in relation to virtually any other fanbase. They think others care far more than reality. It's narcissism through and through. And typical of New Yorkers in general frankly.

Sorry my dude but that is truly an ignorant comment, how the **** can you group millions of people into your proverbial box of the surname " typical New Yorker"


Melos criticism has been the same from day one in the league yes, many just spit more poison into it on this forum because of an ignorant dislike of NYC, it is what it is no big deal, I dont experience this nonsense in the real world but hey

tredigs
10-11-2013, 04:35 AM
Sorry my dude but that is truly an ignorant comment, how the **** can you group millions of people into your proverbial box of the surname " typical New Yorker"


Melos criticism has been the same from day one in the league yes, many just spit more poison into it on this forum because of an ignorant dislike of NYC, it is what it is no big deal, I dont experience this nonsense in the real world but hey

Listen man, I'm stereotyping the loud and proud NY fans with the Melo drivel that we see (again - they're not the average NY fan, but they're in a much higher ratio, not just quantity). They're not a secret, I'm not exactly on an island with this comment. Agreed - it is what it is and no big deal. But I do think it's funny (and telling) that you think this line of thinking is just born out of a natural "ignorant dislike of NYC" and not simply reacting to what we observe. Again, Denver fans never blamed their city as the reason that Melo got hated on (and he got hated on quite a bit. It wasn't too long ago to remember...).

Jesse2272
10-11-2013, 04:43 AM
I'm stereotyping the loud and proud NY fan with the Melo drivel. They're not a secret, I'm not exactly on an island with this comment. Agreed - it is what it is and no big deal. But I do think it's funny (and telling) that you think this line of thinking is just born out of a natural "ignorant dislike of NYC" and not simply reacting to what we observe. Again, Denver fans never blamed their city as the reason that Melo got hated on (and he got hated on quite a bit. It wasn't too long ago to remember...).

You are on an island, Your wrong on my thinking as well bro, Melo deserves his criticism, Im not attacking every critical post on Melo, just the nonsensical ******** posters type to bait NYC fans that even quality posters bite into at times to rib certain dumbass knick fans on this site, its just annoying, Im a apart of this forum basically for a wide range of insight and views on all NBA and it just seams we rarely get impartial insight into NYK without having to read between the lines

BklynKnicks3
10-11-2013, 09:29 AM
thats respectable. So explain to me how harden is ahead of Melo with less reg season wins? Less playoff wins? Don't u think If melo had parker n Manu he would go a lot further too?
By your own admission, probably not the best can also mean hes arguably the best player on the team that came oh so close to winning another chip and had it done so, he would have hoisted yet another FMVP. Thats far better than anything Melo has done last year.

What Melo has going for him is that he can carry a team during the RS, Duncan cant log +34mpg for the full 82 grind. But some of us like to put more importance on how that player helps you in the playoffs. Duncan is a superior 2-way player come postseason. If he were still in his prime this wouldn't even come close, but because hes past his prime, his superiority is only slightly obvious.

BklynKnicks3
10-11-2013, 09:31 AM
The real top 7 is

1. Lbj
2a Kd
2b Melo
4 cp3
5 Kobe
6. Harden
7. Wade Rose is really 5 or 6 but he didn't play

koreancabbage
10-11-2013, 10:07 AM
The real top 7 is

1. Lbj
2a Kd
2b Melo
4 cp3
5 Kobe
6. Harden
7. Wade Rose is really 5 or 6 but he didn't play

in the eyes of Knicks and Melo fans - yes.

but the forum has spoken. Nothing wrong with where Melo is TBH. if you're going to nit pick - there are many things to nit pick at Melo.

BklynKnicks3
10-11-2013, 10:44 AM
that he won 54 games with a 6th man as his number 2 option? go ahead knit pick lets hear this. You put Duncan or harden on knicks last year they win more then 54? lets not forget he missed 14 games or else it would be 60. Im not been bias I truly feel this way I always did before melo was a knick. I think he has been a top 5 player mostl of his career.
in the eyes of Knicks and Melo fans - yes.

but the forum has spoken. Nothing wrong with where Melo is TBH. if you're going to nit pick - there are many things to nit pick at Melo.

nycericanguy
10-11-2013, 11:03 AM
that he won 54 games with a 6th man as his number 2 option? go ahead knit pick lets hear this. You put Duncan or harden on knicks last year they win more then 54? lets not forget he missed 14 games or else it would be 60. Im not been bias I truly feel this way I always did before melo was a knick. I think he has been a top 5 player mostl of his career.

You're crazy sometimes...lol, but you make good points here.

Every Knick starter missed at least 15 games last year and they had 40 year olds on the bench. If not that could have easily been a 60 win team last year. Melo deserved the spot over Harden for sure... this is a case where people just went off advanced stats and Harden got 2-3 more FT's per game... but that doesn't make him better.

Wade & Kobe should have gone above Harden too.

Duncan is in a great situation, but he can't carry a team like Melo anymore... but he had such a great year so I can see his case.

Jesse2272
10-11-2013, 11:05 AM
You're crazy sometimes...lol, but you make good points here.

Every Knick starter missed at least 15 games last year and they had 40 year olds on the bench. If not that could have easily been a 60 win team last year. Melo deserved the spot over Harden for sure... this is a case where people just went off advanced stats and Harden got 2-3 more FT's per game... but that doesn't make him better.

Wade & Kobe should have gone above Harden too.

I support BK3, he does spit some solid points, mixed in with the over the top Melo love

b@llhog24
10-11-2013, 12:55 PM
Do people even understand how stereotyping works?

Jesse2272
10-11-2013, 12:58 PM
Do people even understand how stereotyping works?

Stereo type reflects the masse perception of certain individuals which in the majority are inaccurate reflections of truth homie

b@llhog24
10-11-2013, 01:04 PM
Stereo type reflects the masse perception of certain individuals which in the majority are inaccurate reflections of truth homie

Even still they're there for a reason. All based in the whole "fight or flight" response. You're not gonna see a guy come out of a dark alley drenched in blood and a cleaver and think to yourself "Oh he must be a butcher." The main problem with those who stereotype is when they're not willing to acknowledge an alternative.

Jesse2272
10-11-2013, 01:07 PM
Kool post homie

b@llhog24
10-11-2013, 01:11 PM
Kool post homie

:smoking:

Hawkeye15
10-11-2013, 01:48 PM
where do you put melo if not on NY and having to deal with the NY fan base diatrabe

same place he was in Denver, or would be anywhere. Him being in NY has zip to do with my opinion of his game.

Hawkeye15
10-11-2013, 01:49 PM
Strictly based off of last season? You should.

I can't base it off a single season with so much to work with over the years.

b@llhog24
10-11-2013, 01:56 PM
I can't base it off a single season with so much to work with over the years.

Just saying, don't be surprised if he's winning based on those parameters.

Jesse2272
10-11-2013, 02:04 PM
same place he was in Denver, or would be anywhere. Him being in NY has zip to do with my opinion of his game.

none of my posts were directed at you, just FYI

Hawkeye15
10-11-2013, 03:42 PM
Just saying, don't be surprised if he's winning based on those parameters.

I suppose

Hawkeye15
10-11-2013, 03:43 PM
none of my posts were directed at you, just FYI

nah, as I stated after the Melo trade, NY being relevant again is going to bring out the best and worst of both NY fans, and fans of other teams. It's NY man

sunsfan88
10-11-2013, 04:58 PM
Harden 5th best in NBA? didn't know this site and people that post here are that big of a joke.
Lol.

Kashmir13579
10-11-2013, 06:49 PM
Listen man, I'm stereotyping the loud and proud NY fans with the Melo drivel that we see (again - they're not the average NY fan, but they're in a much higher ratio, not just quantity). They're not a secret, I'm not exactly on an island with this comment. Agreed - it is what it is and no big deal. But I do think it's funny (and telling) that you think this line of thinking is just born out of a natural "ignorant dislike of NYC" and not simply reacting to what we observe. Again, Denver fans never blamed their city as the reason that Melo got hated on (and he got hated on quite a bit. It wasn't too long ago to remember...).
You live in California. How are you supposed to know what ratio of NY fans are spitting drivel? Oh yeah, because you post on PSD, i forgot. Sorry, but these aren't numbers you can look up on basketball-reference, as much as that might hurt your footing.

tredigs
10-11-2013, 07:22 PM
You live in California. How are you supposed to know what ratio of NY fans are spitting drivel? Oh yeah, because you post on PSD, i forgot. Sorry, but these aren't numbers you can look up on basketball-reference, as much as that might hurt your footing.

And airplanes haven't been invented yet. And I'm 7. And I've lived in Cali all my life. And my comments on New Yorkers are incredibly edgy and not common perception.

Kashmir13579
10-11-2013, 07:24 PM
Nice empty tripe. I liken it to your perspective on Knicks fans.

tredigs
10-11-2013, 07:50 PM
Nice empty tripe. I liken it to your perspective on Knicks fans.

Your troglodicious comment on where I currently live dictated that.

Kashmir13579
10-11-2013, 07:56 PM
Troglodicious? I'm not even gonna worry about what that word means. Too bad you're not smart enough to forgo the sweeping generalizations.

amos1er
10-12-2013, 03:31 AM
Harden 5th best in NBA? didn't know this site and people that post here are that big of a joke.

Ya, that is a complete joke.

amos1er
10-12-2013, 03:33 AM
Harden at 5 is a complete joke. Totally makes this site lose credibility.

D-Leethal
10-12-2013, 11:25 AM
James Harden is not even sniffing 50 games with that Knicks squad last year, neither is Timmy.

But carrying a monster load and putting teams on your back to victory isn't the only thing you can rank players on. If it was, Melo is undisputed #3 player in the league.

Somewhere down the line, scoring efficiency became the only thing that matters to this forum, regardless if there are drastic flaws comparing players on different teams across the board with those metrics.

D-Leethal
10-12-2013, 11:34 AM
When the most limited offensive players are leading the league in these offensive efficiency metrics, you should start re-evaluating how you judge a players offensive game.

Chronz
10-12-2013, 11:44 AM
Based on wat doe? And who is you tlakin bout?

tredigs
10-12-2013, 11:56 AM
Based on wat doe? And who is you tlakin bout?

I'll guess Tyson - the NY Melo fan's Public Enemy #1. Context you say? Ain't nobody got time for that.

I also really think they're going to miss J. Kidd this year. Underrated loss.

D-Leethal
10-12-2013, 12:20 PM
Based on wat doe? And who is you tlakin bout?

Based on exactly what I said. When you guys are pulling these efficiency stats out of your *** and getting major hardons over these dudes who couldn't score the ball if a fly was guarding them and putting down dudes who are facing constant triple teams and still finding ways to drop 30, your **** is twisted and you should re-evaluate what makes an offensive player great.

And don't talk to me in ebonics - its not cute or funny.

Just because I choose not to use manufactured math formulas from dudes who never picked up a basketball to judge/rank players doesn't make me an uneducated hoodlum. There is more evidence to suggest the way you guys judge/rank players is completely and utterly flawed than there is to suggest what I'm saying is blasphemy.


I'll guess Tyson - the NY Melo fan's Public Enemy #1. Context you say? Ain't nobody got time for that.

I also really think they're going to miss J. Kidd this year. Underrated loss.

Kidd was great for 20% of the season last year. Awful for 80 + playoffs.

Seems like context is only used when it supports your argument, when it doesn't, it conveniently gets left out.

And also, there isn't enough context in the world to explain why a guy who has bottom 5 offensive skills is top 5 in offensive efficiency metrics.

D-Leethal
10-12-2013, 12:24 PM
And Knicks fans getting on Tyson has nothing to do with Melo - it has to do with 7'2" Tyson not being able to put up a flip hook, not having the ability to power dribble and pump fake, not having the ability to hit an 8 foot jump shot, not having the ability to do anything with his offense rebounds outside of playing volleyball to the 3 point shooters yet gets lauded for his offensive efficiency (which is a direct result of his offensive deficiency).

"Playing within yourself" shouldn't get lauded for those who have zero skills on a certain side of the floor.

Chronz
10-12-2013, 12:35 PM
Based on exactly what I said.
You offered up no names and zero examples. Let me rephrase my last post.

Who are you calling out and can you give me an example of this comparison/ranking whatever it was. Preferably one that involves me but I have no problem listening to you vent about someone else.


When you guys are pulling these efficiency stats out of your *** and getting major hardons over these dudes who couldn't score the ball if a fly was guarding them and putting down dudes who are facing constant triple teams and still finding ways to drop 30, your **** is twisted and you should re-evaluate what makes an offensive player great.
What if we dont pull it out of our ***** and your excuses dont make sense?


And don't talk to me in ebonics - its not cute or funny.
About as riveting as reading about extreme generalities isnt it?


Just because I choose not to use manufactured math formulas from dudes who never picked up a basketball to judge/rank players doesn't make me an uneducated hoodlum. There is more evidence to suggest the way you guys judge/rank players is completely and utterly flawed than there is to suggest what I'm saying is blasphemy.

Based on what doe?

tredigs
10-12-2013, 12:38 PM
Can you cite one post in PSD history where Tyson has been labeled an elite offensive talent?

Chronz
10-12-2013, 12:41 PM
And Knicks fans getting on Tyson has nothing to do with Melo - it has to do with 7'2" Tyson not being able to put up a flip hook, not having the ability to power dribble and pump fake, not having the ability to hit an 8 foot jump shot, not having the ability to do anything with his offense rebounds outside of playing volleyball to the 3 point shooters yet gets lauded for his offensive efficiency (which is a direct result of his offensive deficiency).

"Playing within yourself" shouldn't get lauded for those who have zero skills on a certain side of the floor.
But there are plenty of offensive zeros that cant put up his 2-way efficiency..... why ignore that talent? Because it doesnt fit your narrow view of what constitutes an NBA skill?

b@llhog24
10-12-2013, 12:43 PM
Troglodicious? I'm not even gonna worry about what that word means. Too bad you're not smart enough to forgo the sweeping generalizations.

It has something to do with you being in a cave or something along those lines.


Harden at 5 is a complete joke. Totally makes this site lose credibility.

:horse:


James Harden is not even sniffing 50 games with that Knicks squad last year, neither is Timmy.

Melo wouldn't win as much games on the Rockets as Harden, what's your point?


But carrying a monster load and putting teams on your back to victory isn't the only thing you can rank players on. If it was, Melo is undisputed #3 player in the league.

Somewhere down the line, scoring efficiency became the only thing that matters to this forum, regardless if there are drastic flaws comparing players on different teams across the board with those metrics.

You think Melo is the 3rd best player in the league?


When the most limited offensive players are leading the league in these offensive efficiency metrics, you should start re-evaluating how you judge a players offensive game.

Only if you don't understand how to put things into context then you'd see where your confusion stems from. Are you baffled at how Tyson Chandler leads the league in FG%?

ChiSox219
10-12-2013, 12:47 PM
James Harden is not even sniffing 50 games with that Knicks squad last year, neither is Timmy.

But carrying a monster load and putting teams on your back to victory isn't the only thing you can rank players on. If it was, Melo is undisputed #3 player in the league.

Somewhere down the line, scoring efficiency became the only thing that matters to this forum, regardless if there are drastic flaws comparing players on different teams across the board with those metrics.

Haven't we already been through this? The Knicks and Rockets had roughly equal seasons, just the Knicks logged more wins in a weak Eastern Conference. By the end of the season the Rockets were starting 3 D-Leaguers and Harden found a way to win without chucking up 27 shots.

b@llhog24
10-12-2013, 12:49 PM
Can you cite one post in PSD history where Tyson has been labeled an elite offensive talent?

Lmao. This. The most praise I've ever seen Tyson get is that he's a valuable addition/piece to an offense.

b@llhog24
10-12-2013, 12:50 PM
Haven't we already been through this? The Knicks and Rockets had roughly equal seasons, just the Knicks logged more wins in a weak Eastern Conference. By the end of the season the Rockets were starting 3 D-Leaguers and Harden found a way to win without chucking up 27 shots.

I'd seriously love for them to switch places and watch Melo try to initiate offense for the Rockets.

nycericanguy
10-12-2013, 01:07 PM
Put Melo on HOU and they don't win 45 games? I don't think anyone can seriously believe that. They'd be a 50 win team.

Chandler Parsons is a MUCH better 2nd offensive option then Melo had in NY.

I agree that this is turning into the advanced stats rankings.

Look, I use advanced stats, they have their place, and D-Leethal even gets on me when I question some guys efficiency, especially JR & Felton. But you're not going to convince me that Harden is better than Melo just because he shot 2 or so more FT's per game, and that's really what it comes down to, because other than that, Melo shot a higher % than Harden, and hit the same amount of 3's per game in less playing time on a better %. Melo scored more in less mpg, and on a slower paced team.

Harden hasn't carried teams the way Melo has, Harden didn't have his entire starting lineup out 15+ games each... or four 40 year olds on the bench breaking down. Harden had a relatively healthy team ALL YEAR, himself included and still won NINE games less than Melo's injured Knicks. And don't give me that western conference stuff, because the difference between the 2 conferences based on SOS is about 1 win.

If you polled guys that actually play against those 2 I don't think you'd have many players say Harden is better than Melo.

I wouldn't even put Harden above Wade or Kobe just yet.

Chronz
10-12-2013, 01:19 PM
Put Melo on HOU and they don't win 45 games? I don't think anyone can seriously believe that. They'd be a 50 win team.

Chandler Parsons is a MUCH better 2nd offensive option then Melo had in NY.

I agree that this is turning into the advanced stats rankings.

Look, I use advanced stats, they have their place, and D-Leethal even gets on me when I question some guys efficiency, especially JR & Felton. But you're not going to convince me that Harden is better than Melo just because he shot 2 or so more FT's per game, and that's really what it comes down to, because other than that, Melo shot a higher % than Harden, and hit the same amount of 3's per game in less playing time on a better %. Melo scored more in less mpg, and on a slower paced team.

Harden hasn't carried teams the way Melo has, Harden didn't have his entire starting lineup out 15+ games each... or four 40 year olds on the bench breaking down. Harden had a relatively healthy team ALL YEAR, himself included and still won NINE games less than Melo's injured Knicks. And don't give me that western conference stuff, because the difference between the 2 conferences based on SOS is about 1 win.

If you polled guys that actually play against those 2 I don't think you'd have many players say Harden is better than Melo.

I wouldn't even put Harden above Wade or Kobe just yet.
Right, because Melo and Lin played so great last time....

b@llhog24
10-12-2013, 01:29 PM
Right, because Melo and Lin played so great last time....

Lol these guys think Tyson Chandler doesn't have an offensive game, they need to Watch Asik in action. Also, after all the JR Smith praise I was reading in the 6MOY threads you'd never think they'd hold Parson in a higher regard.

Chronz
10-12-2013, 02:05 PM
Lol these guys think Tyson Chandler doesn't have an offensive game, they need to Watch Asik in action. Also, after all the JR Smith praise I was reading in the 6MOY threads you'd never think they'd hold Parson in a higher regard.

My thoughts exactly

Kashmir13579
10-12-2013, 02:30 PM
Kidd was great for 20% of the season last year. Awful for 80 + playoffs.


Kidd was outperformed by Prigs last year and it'll be the same damn thing this year just on a bigger scale.

Kashmir13579
10-12-2013, 02:40 PM
And Knicks fans getting on Tyson has nothing to do with Melo - it has to do with 7'2" Tyson not being able to put up a flip hook, not having the ability to power dribble and pump fake, not having the ability to hit an 8 foot jump shot, not having the ability to do anything with his offense rebounds outside of playing volleyball to the 3 point shooters yet gets lauded for his offensive efficiency (which is a direct result of his offensive deficiency).

"Playing within yourself" shouldn't get lauded for those who have zero skills on a certain side of the floor.

What about his ability to anchor our defense and give us a super efficient 10+ points every night without eating up any of 'Melo's possessions? You just don't fuggin' get it. You say the same BS every time and its embarrassing to read at this point. The Knicks are nothing the last two seasons without Tyson Chandler and its beyond debate.

Kashmir13579
10-12-2013, 02:44 PM
Right, because Melo and Lin played so great last time....

Not that i agree with Nyerican, i'll take Harden over 'Melo any day of the week, but your argument here is flawed for the simple fact that Harden was handed the keys. Melo was being asked to share them during the height of Linsanity. Totally different animal. Raymond Felton and Jeremy actually aren't so different.

nycericanguy
10-12-2013, 02:59 PM
Right, because Melo and Lin played so great last time....

What exactly does that have to do with anything? You're right, Lin & Melo wasn't the best duo, but neither is Harden & Lin... Lin has been reduced to being a spot up shooter playing with Harden. And Melo never even had the benefit of any training camp with Lin.

nycericanguy
10-12-2013, 03:02 PM
Not that i agree with Nyerican, i'll take Harden over 'Melo any day of the week, but your argument here is flawed for the simple fact that Harden was handed the keys. Melo was being asked to share them during the height of Linsanity. Totally different animal. Raymond Felton and Jeremy actually aren't so different.

Unless we're basing it off age and potential, I don't see why you would.

Melo has shown he can carry teams to 50+ wins year in and year out. Harden has yet to do that.

Melo is bigger & stronger.

And people talk about Lin's TO's, but Harden was a TO machine last year. Melo, despite having a much higher USG% turned it over MUCH less than Harden.

A lot of "new" guys get a lot of calls early on, but refs are going to tire of giving Harden all those calls soon, his FT attempts that make him so "efficient", I will bet will come down to earth.

FOBolous
10-12-2013, 03:06 PM
Dwight Howard and Tony Parker should both be over Anthony. Both of these player have led their teams deeper into the playoffs than Anthony ever did.

nycericanguy
10-12-2013, 03:08 PM
Lol these guys think Tyson Chandler doesn't have an offensive game, they need to Watch Asik in action. Also, after all the JR Smith praise I was reading in the 6MOY threads you'd never think they'd hold Parson in a higher regard.

I'm not a big JR fan, he put up numbers last year, but he was still the same JR, just shot a ton more last year. That doesn't mean he didn't deserve the 6MOY last year though. I mean he WAS an 18ppg scorer on a team that really needed a 2nd scoring option last year.

Chandler Parsons was 49/39/80 from the field last year, and his overall game is better. I don't think anyone can seriously argue that. People praising JR for his 6MOY doesn't change that.

nycericanguy
10-12-2013, 03:09 PM
Dwight Howard and Tony Parker should both be over Anthony. Both of these player have led their teams deeper into the playoffs than Anthony ever did.

Well by that logic Melo should be over Harden...

Harden couldn't get out of the first round as the man...

b@llhog24
10-12-2013, 03:25 PM
What exactly does that have to do with anything? You're right, Lin & Melo wasn't the best duo, but neither is Harden & Lin... Lin has been reduced to being a spot up shooter playing with Harden. And Melo never even had the benefit of any training camp with Lin.

And Harden did? Regardless Melo doesn't have Harden's passing/ball handling ability. I'd envision Houston being unable to get into their offensive sets with Melo in Harden's place.


Unless we're basing it off age and potential, I don't see why you would.

Melo has shown he can carry teams to 50+ wins year in and year out. Harden has yet to do that.

No Melo has proven that he can play on teams that won 50+ games a year. If Harden is playing at this current level that he's at and has a similar team makeup in regards to fit as Melo does. They win 50 games as well, those kind of things happen when you're talking about similar (to be honest Harden is better but for comparison's sake lets call them identical).
Melo is bigger & stronger.


And people talk about Lin's TO's, but Harden was a TO machine last year. Melo, despite having a much higher USG% turned it over MUCH less than Harden.

Relevance?


A lot of "new" guys get a lot of calls early on, but refs are going to tire of giving Harden all those calls soon, his FT attempts that make him so "efficient", I will bet will come down to earth.

Doesn't matter his eFG is higher (which stands to see an increase as well seeing as he'll have another offensive threat in Dwight next to him) so he's more efficient in "live scoring." But always thought that refs gave guys more free throws based on the amount of experience they have. It's probably a case by case thing though.

b@llhog24
10-12-2013, 03:29 PM
I'm not a big JR fan, he put up numbers last year, but he was still the same JR, just shot a ton more last year. That doesn't mean he didn't deserve the 6MOY last year though. I mean he WAS an 18ppg scorer on a team that really needed a 2nd scoring option last year.

Not saying you're wrong. Just that I find it odd, well that and coupled with the hyperbolic statement "MUCH BETTER" kind of makes me doubt that assertion. Maybe based on how their games would interact with perimeter super(all)star players then I'd be inclined to agree, but still I don't consider either a second option to begin with based on the strength of the stars.


Chandler Parsons was 49/39/80 from the field last year, and his overall game is better. I don't think anyone can seriously argue that. People praising JR for his 6MOY doesn't change that.

Meh.

Chronz
10-12-2013, 03:49 PM
Not that i agree with Nyerican, i'll take Harden over 'Melo any day of the week, but your argument here is flawed for the simple fact that Harden was handed the keys. Melo was being asked to share them during the height of Linsanity. Totally different animal. Raymond Felton and Jeremy actually aren't so different.

How dare you

Chronz
10-12-2013, 03:51 PM
What exactly does that have to do with anything? You're right, Lin & Melo wasn't the best duo, but neither is Harden & Lin... Lin has been reduced to being a spot up shooter playing with Harden. And Melo never even had the benefit of any training camp with Lin.

OK so where does Melo play? Does he move Parsons to the 4 or the 2 or allow him to play his natural 3 position? If hes in the frontcourt alongside Melo, who plays SG?

nycericanguy
10-12-2013, 04:03 PM
OK so where does Melo play? Does he move Parsons to the 4 or the 2 or allow him to play his natural 3 position? If hes in the frontcourt alongside Melo, who plays SG?

You're taking the "if Melo was on HOU" thing a bit too literal.

But Parsons would be a good 3 next to Melo, he's definitely a more natural SF than JR or Shump who NY used there last year. Melo & Parsons would be interchangeable at the 3/4 really.

amos1er
10-12-2013, 04:59 PM
This is the worst top ten yet. Harden and 5??? Duncan at 4??? You guys seriously need to re-vote this during the season when more posters are on here. This list really makes the site lose credibility.

Here is my top ten...

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Kobe
5. Wade
6. Duncan
7. Melo
8. Parker
9. Howard
10. Westbrook

amos1er
10-12-2013, 05:03 PM
I will say that at least you guys aren't as bad as ESPN by adding Rose in the top 5 even though he didn't play the past two seasons. Lol.

Kashmir13579
10-13-2013, 02:47 PM
Unless we're basing it off age and potential, I don't see why you would.

Melo has shown he can carry teams to 50+ wins year in and year out. Harden has yet to do that.

Melo is bigger & stronger.

And people talk about Lin's TO's, but Harden was a TO machine last year. Melo, despite having a much higher USG% turned it over MUCH less than Harden.

A lot of "new" guys get a lot of calls early on, but refs are going to tire of giving Harden all those calls soon, his FT attempts that make him so "efficient", I will bet will come down to earth.

'Melo just came off the heels of his worst season as a pro, a year where he routinely slacked and got a coach fired. Harden = class act. When Harden shows he's capable of being a cancer i'll think otherwise. As of right now your argument is that 'Melo's far and away best year as a pro being marginally better than Harden's FIRST YEAR as the main guy, somehow gives Melo an edge.

nycericanguy
10-13-2013, 04:33 PM
'Melo just came off the heels of his worst season as a pro, a year where he routinely slacked and got a coach fired. Harden = class act. When Harden shows he's capable of being a cancer i'll think otherwise. As of right now your argument is that 'Melo's far and away best year as a pro being marginally better than Harden's FIRST YEAR as the main guy, somehow gives Melo an edge.

We are talking about RIGHT now aren't we?

Can Harden surpass Melo in 2 years or so? Sure... its possible... but he hasn't yet.

And I wouldn't say Melo's year last year was "far and away his best"... I'm not even sure it was his best period. 07-08 was probably better.

Kashmir13579
10-13-2013, 04:42 PM
We are talking about RIGHT now aren't we?

Can Harden surpass Melo in 2 years or so? Sure... its possible... but he hasn't yet.

And I wouldn't say Melo's year last year was "far and away his best"... I'm not even sure it was his best period. 07-08 was probably better.
You were the one citing 'Melo's previous seasons.


Melo has shown he can carry teams to 50+ wins year in and year out. Harden has yet to do that.
Thats the statement i was responding to.

Kashmir13579
10-13-2013, 04:44 PM
Also, good luck trying to convince anyone that 'Melo was better in 07-08. I'm not sure why you would try.

b@llhog24
10-13-2013, 05:46 PM
Also, good luck trying to convince anyone that 'Melo was better in 07-08. I'm not sure why you would try.

Lmao.

Kashmir13579
10-13-2013, 06:04 PM
Lmao.

He's usually better than this. I don't want to have to add him to the short list of Knicks posters who have let one successful season from 'Melo and the Knicks go to their head.